[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think I was clean for a year. I got scabies. It was awful.

[Assistant] Oh, boy.

[User] I got to have quite a serious case. Um, they really had, and fishing was a lot tougher. Like on Lamotrek, they just went out to the atoll and, like, hung around the, the coral. And, you know, there's fish everywhere there. I mean, at least there were then. I don't know about now, but, uh, they, uh, in Satawal it was much harder. And yet I'd say they were much kinder, more pro, more proactive people. Um, they're kind of lazy on Lamotrek. And on Satawal, I was much closer with my family. My hut was right across from their hut. You know, it was like I lived really close to them. And, uh, it was a more positive experience with the people, I would say.

[Assistant] Of course, you're stepping in now with a year under your belt.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got to have quite a serious case. Um, they really had, and fishing was a lot tougher. Like on Lamotrek, they just went out to the atoll and, like, hung around the, the coral. And, you know, there's fish everywhere there. I mean, at least there were then. I don't know about now, but, uh, they, uh, in Satawal it was much harder. And yet I'd say they were much kinder, more pro, more proactive people. Um, they're kind of lazy on Lamotrek. And on Satawal, I was much closer with my family. My hut was right across from their hut. You know, it was like I lived really close to them. And, uh, it was a more positive experience with the people, I would say.

[Assistant] Of course, you're stepping in now with a year under your belt.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?

[User] You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um.

[Assistant] Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?

[User] You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um.

[Assistant] Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?

[User] Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons.

[Assistant] So men and women did handicrafts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um.

[Assistant] Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?

[User] Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons.

[Assistant] So men and women did handicrafts?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could be part of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons.

[Assistant] So men and women did handicrafts?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could be part of.

[User] Women less than men.

[Assistant] Part of that economic niche.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could be part of.

[User] Women less than men.

[Assistant] Part of that economic niche.

[User] Yeah. So I saw that as being economic niche.

[Assistant] Were the women more productive as a rule than men?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Women less than men.

[Assistant] Part of that economic niche.

[User] Yeah. So I saw that as being economic niche.

[Assistant] Were the women more productive as a rule than men?

[User] In general or?

[Assistant] On second island.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In general or?

[Assistant] On second island.

[User] Or as to handicrafts?

[Assistant] In general.

[User] Oh, God, yes. Yeah. No offense.

[Assistant] No, no, no.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, God, yes. Yeah. No offense.

[Assistant] No, no, no.

[User] The men, the men on Satawal were a little more, uh, proactive than on Lamotrek.

[Assistant] They were?

[User] Yeah, a little bit, which is.

[Assistant] It's a harder island. It's a tougher place to live.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The men, the men on Satawal were a little more, uh, proactive than on Lamotrek.

[Assistant] They were?

[User] Yeah, a little bit, which is.

[Assistant] It's a harder island. It's a tougher place to live.

[User]
Yeah, maybe that's why. I don't know, but, um. But in general, women work from sun up to sundown. They never were just lying around. They were always like harvesting, planting, preparing food, making thread, making teors, making this, making that. I mean, they were just always, always working. And the men were like in the men's house, you know, drinking. I mean, they were so lazy sometimes on Lamotrek, and the women would complain. I remember once we didn't have fish for like three weeks because the men were just, wouldn't go out. And, you know, finally the women. This was one of the lessons I kind of saw, is that all the women are not just passive. Eventually they will like rise up in revolt and like, you know, like shake the men by the shoulders. You have to fish.

Then we, we went out and caught the crabs a lot during that time, I remember. I didn't mind. I like crabs, but they wanted fish. Oh my God, we cooked a dog.

[Assistant] Well, you're dealing with a protein, protein scarcity.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yeah, maybe that's why. I don't know, but, um. But in general, women work from sun up to sundown. They never were just lying around. They were always like harvesting, planting, preparing food, making thread, making teors, making this, making that. I mean, they were just always, always working. And the men were like in the men's house, you know, drinking. I mean, they were so lazy sometimes on Lamotrek, and the women would complain. I remember once we didn't have fish for like three weeks because the men were just, wouldn't go out. And, you know, finally the women. This was one of the lessons I kind of saw, is that all the women are not just passive. Eventually they will like rise up in revolt and like, you know, like shake the men by the shoulders. You have to fish.

Then we, we went out and caught the crabs a lot during that time, I remember. I didn't mind. I like crabs, but they wanted fish. Oh my God, we cooked a dog.

[Assistant] Well, you're dealing with a protein, protein scarcity.

[User] Exactly. We ate a dog during that time.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] It was like, I was, by that, by that time I was living in my little hut off the compound. But I came to the compound for dinner and I was walking over there and I smelt this incredibly great smell. It was like roasted meat. I'm like, what the hell is that? Yeah, they were roasting a dog.

[Assistant] It wasn't fish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. We ate a dog during that time.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] It was like, I was, by that, by that time I was living in my little hut off the compound. But I came to the compound for dinner and I was walking over there and I smelt this incredibly great smell. It was like roasted meat. I'm like, what the hell is that? Yeah, they were roasting a dog.

[Assistant] It wasn't fish.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oops. Was that you or me?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oops. Was that you or me?

[User] Yeah. Me. Okay. I don't see anything on the floor.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog.

[Assistant] So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Me. Okay. I don't see anything on the floor.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog.

[Assistant] So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog.

[Assistant] So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was there any transition?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was there any transition?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Any continuity after you left?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I mean there were new volunteers but they were on Yap. I was on, I was on Satawal. By the time I finished, I was ready to go.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, I mean, it's hard life on those islands.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] No electricity, no running water, no toilets. You're sleeping on the floor. Um. I learned some really incredible things that have affected me my whole life. I'd say the most significant one was I learned to weave. And this, I became known as the weaving volunteer.

[Assistant] I see your email address, Sara weaves.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No electricity, no running water, no toilets. You're sleeping on the floor. Um. I learned some really incredible things that have affected me my whole life. I'd say the most significant one was I learned to weave. And this, I became known as the weaving volunteer.

[Assistant] I see your email address, Sara weaves.

[User] Because I still weave to this day. In the back room there I have a loom. And, um, I, I love weaving and, um, I had to relearn in the States because a loom here is not the same as a backstrap loom. But I learned to weave, and I, um, that was a great way to integrate into the culture with the women. Also, I learned to dance, which not very well, but that led to one of the best experiences there, which was, um, there was. This was on Lamotrek. There was a, I don't even know what to call it, a celebration.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like.

[Assistant] This was all women's, women's activity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because I still weave to this day. In the back room there I have a loom. And, um, I, I love weaving and, um, I had to relearn in the States because a loom here is not the same as a backstrap loom. But I learned to weave, and I, um, that was a great way to integrate into the culture with the women. Also, I learned to dance, which not very well, but that led to one of the best experiences there, which was, um, there was. This was on Lamotrek. There was a, I don't even know what to call it, a celebration.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like.

[Assistant] This was all women's, women's activity?

[User] Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance.

[Assistant] A man's dance.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like.

[Assistant] This was all women's, women's activity?

[User] Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance.

[Assistant] A man's dance.

[User] Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that.

[Assistant] Did it impact their perception of you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance.

[Assistant] A man's dance.

[User] Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that.

[Assistant] Did it impact their perception of you?

[User] I don't know.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that.

[Assistant] Did it impact their perception of you?

[User] I don't know.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Yeah.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] You're one of us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Yeah.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] You're one of us.

[User] Yeah, I hope so. It's really hard to say. They're not the world's most communicative people.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I hope so. It's really hard to say. They're not the world's most communicative people.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.

[User] I don't know, I don't know. It certainly helped my, uh, relationship with the girls who taught me, that's for sure. They were very proud of me.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, but the men, who knows. I don't know.

[Assistant] Now, if there had been a male, if you teamed up with a, a male expert coming in, would that have made a difference in terms of getting the men moving?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know, I don't know. It certainly helped my, uh, relationship with the girls who taught me, that's for sure. They were very proud of me.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, but the men, who knows. I don't know.

[Assistant] Now, if there had been a male, if you teamed up with a, a male expert coming in, would that have made a difference in terms of getting the men moving?

[User] Male expert? You mean like another Peace Corps volunteer?

[Assistant] Another volunteer coming in for community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Male expert? You mean like another Peace Corps volunteer?

[Assistant] Another volunteer coming in for community?

[User] I think, I'm only theorizing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I would say probably what would have happened is they would have ignored me and just followed him.

[Assistant] Ah, uh huh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know that I would have had any ability to impact anything in that case. I think it's better that I was there by myself, actually, but I wouldn't say I was super successful.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, I was young, I really didn't know what I was doing, and there were times when I didn't have much to do. I even taught some English just to keep myself occupied. But, you know, as I say, because I learned to weave and because I participated in the preparation of food and everything. And, you know, I kept myself busy, but I'd say my work was maybe 30 to 40 percent of my time at the most. The rest was just day to day life and, you know, like day to day life there is pretty monotonous. So by the time I left, I was ready to go. I got a farewell tattoo, a traditional island tattoo.

[Assistant] For women?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Not a man's tattoo, but a separate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I was young, I really didn't know what I was doing, and there were times when I didn't have much to do. I even taught some English just to keep myself occupied. But, you know, as I say, because I learned to weave and because I participated in the preparation of food and everything. And, you know, I kept myself busy, but I'd say my work was maybe 30 to 40 percent of my time at the most. The rest was just day to day life and, you know, like day to day life there is pretty monotonous. So by the time I left, I was ready to go. I got a farewell tattoo, a traditional island tattoo.

[Assistant] For women?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Not a man's tattoo, but a separate?

[User] No, a woman's tattoo. They all had tattoos.

[Assistant] Were they different?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's so remote, you know? I just kind of knew I never would and I never did.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I don't think I ever will.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And it may have made me very sad.

[Assistant] Now, this was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I don't think I ever will.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And it may have made me very sad.

[Assistant] Now, this was.

[User] Even though I was ready to leave.

[Assistant] The people, the whole experience, or the boyfriend?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it may have made me very sad.

[Assistant] Now, this was.

[User] Even though I was ready to leave.

[Assistant] The people, the whole experience, or the boyfriend?

[User] No, the boyfriend started it. But what, what it ultimately was really about was, yeah, the whole experience. Just the living there, you know, the people, the, the, the life, the experience, the dancing, the weaving. I mean, there was a lot, there was a lot of negative stuff. There was a lot of bad stuff, for sure, mainly boredom. But, you know, squabbles with the family, loneliness. I mean, it was very isolated. Um, we talked on the shortwave once a week and that was it. And, um, so it's not, and I never, I haven't idealized it in all these years. And I didn't then. But still it was such an incredibly unique experience. I mean, how many people get to do stuff like that? It was such an opportunity for me. I mean, I don't know that I helped them all that much, to be honest, but it was a great, great thing for me as a young person.

[Assistant] And then you head off back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, the boyfriend started it. But what, what it ultimately was really about was, yeah, the whole experience. Just the living there, you know, the people, the, the, the life, the experience, the dancing, the weaving. I mean, there was a lot, there was a lot of negative stuff. There was a lot of bad stuff, for sure, mainly boredom. But, you know, squabbles with the family, loneliness. I mean, it was very isolated. Um, we talked on the shortwave once a week and that was it. And, um, so it's not, and I never, I haven't idealized it in all these years. And I didn't then. But still it was such an incredibly unique experience. I mean, how many people get to do stuff like that? It was such an opportunity for me. I mean, I don't know that I helped them all that much, to be honest, but it was a great, great thing for me as a young person.

[Assistant] And then you head off back.

[User] Yeah. I didn't go back to the States. I traveled for years after that, mainly in Asia. I lived in Japan for a long time. That's where I met the guy I mentioned who I went to Portugal with. We're still friends now. Um, and, uh, traveled all over Asia. I didn't come back to the States until I was almost 30.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] And so, yeah.

[Assistant] So several years you were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. I did, I really enjoyed traveling. I had that itch.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, uh, I came back to the States and um, so, you know, I did the usual things, you know, I got a job, I got married, I had a kid, um, I became a lawyer. I just, I hardly took vacations. I just worked and worked, and it all sort of became a bit of a distant memory.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life.

[Assistant] Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, I came back to the States and um, so, you know, I did the usual things, you know, I got a job, I got married, I had a kid, um, I became a lawyer. I just, I hardly took vacations. I just worked and worked, and it all sort of became a bit of a distant memory.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life.

[Assistant] Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?

[User]
Oh, it did for sure. And one thing I always say is that unlike I would say most Americans, um, I think I have a really clear sense of what I can do without, which most Americans have no idea. I mean, why would they? And no, not all, plenty of Americans are doing without right now. But I mean, like, I realized, at least for a long time in my life, I could completely do without every modern convenience. Um, I don't know if that's true now, but for a long time.

And I think now I would, I would, I think I realized that what I really couldn't do without was books. And I mean, I just had to read. I just go nuts. And music. So, you know, like, I had tapes that, uh, I'm making a, a round and round gesture. Yeah, I had tapes and a tape player, and I would, like, lay my batteries out in the sun to try and, like, get just the very last charge out of them. And my family would send me batteries in every care package and, um, so, yeah, so I could listen to music.

[Assistant] Did you have a hard time reentering America?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life.

[Assistant] Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?

[User]
Oh, it did for sure. And one thing I always say is that unlike I would say most Americans, um, I think I have a really clear sense of what I can do without, which most Americans have no idea. I mean, why would they? And no, not all, plenty of Americans are doing without right now. But I mean, like, I realized, at least for a long time in my life, I could completely do without every modern convenience. Um, I don't know if that's true now, but for a long time.

And I think now I would, I would, I think I realized that what I really couldn't do without was books. And I mean, I just had to read. I just go nuts. And music. So, you know, like, I had tapes that, uh, I'm making a, a round and round gesture. Yeah, I had tapes and a tape player, and I would, like, lay my batteries out in the sun to try and, like, get just the very last charge out of them. And my family would send me batteries in every care package and, um, so, yeah, so I could listen to music.

[Assistant] Did you have a hard time reentering America?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You'd been all over.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This time around has been very hard.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] But the first time around? No. I think maybe because, you know. I came back, I got really involved in things. Uh, I had a kid, I went to law school. I had a lot else.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Taking up my attention. Yeah. So, no, I didn't find it very hard. No. And you know, but I mean I missed certain things, but, um, not, that wasn't that bad.

[Assistant] And then you're, you're married, you're a mother, you're working. You've got a career.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Why did I do it again?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Good question. Yeah, I, it's hard. It's really hard to say. So I had a super demanding job. Um, I was a vice president for programs at the California State Parks Foundation. I was there for 13 years. This was a job I had, you know, before. Before that, I was executive director of the National Council of Jewish Women. So I had very stressful, demanding jobs that.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] Sucked up a lot of time and energy. Um, I had started traveling again by that point because my son was already grown up. I was single and I could do what I wanted, so I volunteered in India for a month. Yeah, it was this organization called Encore. It was.

[Assistant] I've heard of it, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sucked up a lot of time and energy. Um, I had started traveling again by that point because my son was already grown up. I was single and I could do what I wanted, so I volunteered in India for a month. Yeah, it was this organization called Encore. It was.

[Assistant] I've heard of it, yeah.

[User]
It was ex Peace Corps volunteers. And Maura Harrington, I think is her last name, she was the executive director at that time. So that's where I met her for the first time. And we discovered, we knew we had both been in Micronesia, not at the same time. I went to India, Mumbai, and then I traveled for almost a month after that. I took a sabbatical from work, which they were generous enough to give me and, um, some other trips to Europe and stuff. And I just started traveling again, and I think that, um, affected me, and I got kind of tired of my job. It was so stressful. There were a lot of problems with our government partner, the Department of Parks and Recreation, which I won't go into here.

Um, but it became harder and harder to do a good job. A lot of stonewalling and a lot of, a lot of difficulties. And they weren't difficulties that had anything to do with me personally. It was organizational. Um, so, um, I was. I do remember quite clearly, um, I had a little house up in the hills and my son was there, I don't know, doing something with me. And I was complaining to him about, you know, I have to make a change, but I didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I didn't want to just get another job that would be equally stressful. And he said to me, why don't you join the Peace Corps again?

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?

[Assistant] Go back to Yap.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
It was ex Peace Corps volunteers. And Maura Harrington, I think is her last name, she was the executive director at that time. So that's where I met her for the first time. And we discovered, we knew we had both been in Micronesia, not at the same time. I went to India, Mumbai, and then I traveled for almost a month after that. I took a sabbatical from work, which they were generous enough to give me and, um, some other trips to Europe and stuff. And I just started traveling again, and I think that, um, affected me, and I got kind of tired of my job. It was so stressful. There were a lot of problems with our government partner, the Department of Parks and Recreation, which I won't go into here.

Um, but it became harder and harder to do a good job. A lot of stonewalling and a lot of, a lot of difficulties. And they weren't difficulties that had anything to do with me personally. It was organizational. Um, so, um, I was. I do remember quite clearly, um, I had a little house up in the hills and my son was there, I don't know, doing something with me. And I was complaining to him about, you know, I have to make a change, but I didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I didn't want to just get another job that would be equally stressful. And he said to me, why don't you join the Peace Corps again?

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?

[Assistant] Go back to Yap.

[User] I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it.

[Assistant] How old was your son at the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?

[Assistant] Go back to Yap.

[User] I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it.

[Assistant] How old was your son at the time?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] In high school or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it.

[Assistant] How old was your son at the time?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] In high school or?

[User] No. No, he was in college.

[Assistant] Uh huh, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, but I remember him standing there saying that to me, and I think he planted a seed somehow.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And, um, so I, I guess I started thinking about it. And then I do remember this. It was May, I remember that. I don't remember what year, but probably 2015 or '14 I guess. It was May and things had gotten much worse at work, and I was really stressed out, and I had something happen at work that I really didn't like. It was a bad day. And I thought, I came home and I filled out the application online. I'm like, you know, like I just, I have to do something. It was almost like on a whim almost, you know, and like, boom. Like the whole thing happened so fast. I filled it out in May. I just remember that because it was almost my birthday, and by the following January it was all set. And I left in April.

[Assistant] For Georgia.

[User] Uh huh. So the application was different. Like you couldn't say where you wanted to go. You could just say where you didn't want to go. And I really agonized over that. But finally I said I didn't want to go to Jordan because I didn't think that I would be, being Jewish, that it would be, you know, given all the tensions that it would.

[Assistant] That would be in 2014? Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, um, so I, I guess I started thinking about it. And then I do remember this. It was May, I remember that. I don't remember what year, but probably 2015 or '14 I guess. It was May and things had gotten much worse at work, and I was really stressed out, and I had something happen at work that I really didn't like. It was a bad day. And I thought, I came home and I filled out the application online. I'm like, you know, like I just, I have to do something. It was almost like on a whim almost, you know, and like, boom. Like the whole thing happened so fast. I filled it out in May. I just remember that because it was almost my birthday, and by the following January it was all set. And I left in April.

[Assistant] For Georgia.

[User] Uh huh. So the application was different. Like you couldn't say where you wanted to go. You could just say where you didn't want to go. And I really agonized over that. But finally I said I didn't want to go to Jordan because I didn't think that I would be, being Jewish, that it would be, you know, given all the tensions that it would.

[Assistant] That would be in 2014? Yeah.

[User] Yeah, that it would be a good idea. But other than that, I was willing to go anywhere. I kind of suspected, given my background, that it would be somewhere in Eastern Europe. So when I got the offer.

[Assistant] The background, your legal background?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, um, what, what actually. The reason they left is just because when Georgia dropped out of the Soviet Union, when the Soviet Union broke up, Georgia was the first country to leave. And they left, but they had no government. They had no currency, they had no banks, they had no utilities. They didn't have safe water or electricity. They, they literally had lived so long under Soviet rule, they had no idea like how to make a country.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And things were very, very, very hard there for a good many years. And there was a lot of crime. There was like a Georgian mafia, there was a lot of bribery and all the things you would expect in a situation like that. And the Jews had the ability to leave and go to Israel, so they did. So. But the Georgians miss them and they always, you know, they would always talk to me about it. We had neighbors or still they keep in touch with their former neighbors in Israel.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um, so, you know, I could see that there was not a big problem there with that. And I read about it and it looked like so interesting and I'm like, I'm going. So I accepted the offer. I didn't, I'm like, I must be insane. I'll never forget giving notice at work. Oh my God. I mean, it wasn't like I was giving notice at McDonald's. You know, I ran like millions of dollars’ worth of programs. And I'm still friends with my boss. She left too, and not that long after me. She's, she's head of the Municipal Art Society in New York now. We're still in touch.

[Assistant] She forgave you for leaving her?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was pretty mad at first, to tell you the truth. But she, she, she was, she was nice about it. I had two goodbye parties, one in LA, one in San Francisco. And the one in San Francisco, they made, like they had like 100 photographs of me throughout all those years. Me with different people doing different things. They were just printed out on paper but popped up on the wall.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] I still have them.

[Assistant] Marvelous.

[User] So anyway, it was a very, very and. And in San Francisco, when we said goodbye, she was crying. I was shocked, I really was. But off I went. Yeah. It was like I sold the house. And luckily for me, the market was just going back up and that right then and I sold my house, which made me very sad. But because it was a great little house. But I had to do it.

[Assistant] And where was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] If I had to pay for all that out of pocket, like a lot of applicants do, oh my gosh. So I was very lucky, but I got through all that, I got accepted. I didn't give notice until the medical stuff was done because I wanted to make sure. But yeah, so off I went. We left in April of 2014 and, uh, we went for orientation for like a week at a place called Bazaleti. There were about 50 of us, 50, more, maybe more like 50.

[Assistant] In Georgia?

[User] Uh huh, in my group. It was, that's the standard size of the groups. There's always 100 to 120 or something of Peace Corps in Georgia. And then we went to, uh, the town where we were going to live with families for training. And, um, we met our families in a park, uh, you know, like, they stood on one side and we stood on the other side and it's a, it's a town called Khashuri. And, uh, they would like call your name and you'd come forward and they'd call the name of your host family. They'd come forward and like off you'd go. And so public, you know, somebody was videotaping it. That's how they do it, though. I don't know how they do it in other places.

[Assistant] And that was it. You take off with your family.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you're on your way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh, in my group. It was, that's the standard size of the groups. There's always 100 to 120 or something of Peace Corps in Georgia. And then we went to, uh, the town where we were going to live with families for training. And, um, we met our families in a park, uh, you know, like, they stood on one side and we stood on the other side and it's a, it's a town called Khashuri. And, uh, they would like call your name and you'd come forward and they'd call the name of your host family. They'd come forward and like off you'd go. And so public, you know, somebody was videotaping it. That's how they do it, though. I don't know how they do it in other places.

[Assistant] And that was it. You take off with your family.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you're on your way.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Was this part of the training or was this your assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Was this part of the training or was this your assignment?

[User] No. This was, this was the family you stayed with for your training.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User]
So, um, so, uh, we. I went, my family was, um, a woman named Eka, and she had two grown sons and her mother in law she lived with. Her husband had gone to Ukraine to work and, like, married another woman and just left her completely destitute. So part of the reason she took in Peace Corps volunteers was, you know, for the money. But she was very nice, very nice. I'm really, um, you know, very fond of her.

And I just remember at one point, like when we got there, my bedroom was going to be upstairs, and I had, you know, big heavy bags of luggage, and I put them down. She didn't speak any English. And she said to me in Georgian, the boys, her son, the boys will take it and take it upstairs. So the word for boys in Georgian is, is, um, let me see. Without. It's not that I don't remember the word. I have to put it in the right form of speech. And, and so if you're speaking to somebody, you say bicho. And if you're making it plural, biches. So she said, biches will take the luggage. And I'm like, the bitches, what? I know, I was so confused. Oh my God.

So we start, uh, we, we went to a school, um, for our training, and we had language all morning. And then in the afternoon we had all sorts of training related. Then we broke out into, um, um, into groups, uh, like teachers were one group and IOD was another group. So we did a lot of stuff related to IOD training, training on grant writing, you know, training on organizational effectiveness. Training was very good there, very good. And the language training was excellent. Georgian is one of the ten most difficult languages in the world.

[Assistant] I can believe it, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
It's got a grammatical structure that's enough to make your head explode. It's so hard. I never became fluent. A few people did, one person in particular in my group. But it's just so, so hard, long, hard to say too, long strings of consonants together. Like you can have up to five consonants in a row in a word. How are you supposed to say that? Um, it's a very, very challenging language. And the teachers were great, and it's amazing how much I learned.

The one thing that happened during training that I didn't like at all was that there were like about, they put us into clusters. And the clusters went to class together, language class, and had lunch at each other's houses every day all through training. And what they did was they took all the older people and put them in one cluster. And I was very upset. I felt, and so were others too, we all felt like we were being somehow kind of stigmatized. And in the end, there were two people in our class who were good enough in language that they got moved to other more advanced classes. I was in the middle. I was neither the worst or the best. And unfortunately, then what they did was they took two young people who were really struggling and put them in our class. So I then became the best in the class and was like really pulled down by the problems that other people were having.

So my language training was problematic. On the other hand, if they had taken us and put us, just mixed us in randomly, apparently that had caused a lot of problems in the past too. So I don't really know what the answer is, but I really didn't like being put in a group based solely on my age, you know? I felt like we should all sink or swim on our own merits.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Um. So.

[Assistant] How long was that training period?

[User] Uh, like.

[Assistant] Before you got assigned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. So.

[Assistant] How long was that training period?

[User] Uh, like.

[Assistant] Before you got assigned?

[User] Like three months.

[Assistant] And then assignment came.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, like.

[Assistant] Before you got assigned?

[User] Like three months.

[Assistant] And then assignment came.

[User]
And then assignment. Yeah. We got our assignments about the middle of the training. Um, I remember that day vividly. First we had language tests and you had to achieve a certain level, which I did by the skin of my teeth. I think they were just being nice, but, um. Uh, and then this is the way they do it. They still do it this way in Georgia, I just saw somebody a few weeks ago who told me.

They make the, the staff, they make a big map of Georgia with like tape or something, um, out in the playground of the school. And they put like rocks where the main cities and assignments are, and then they give an envelope to one person and it has someone's name on it. So they call that person's name. And that person like, you were all circled around the map, comes out and like takes the envelope and opens it. I'm going to, you know, Kutaisi. And then they walk over and stand on the Kutaisi stone. And then that just like continues throughout. Everybody's giving each other assignments and everybody's walking to their different places. And in the end, we're all standing on the place where we are. So.

[Assistant] The Peace corps coordinator is giving out the assignments and then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like three months.

[Assistant] And then assignment came.

[User]
And then assignment. Yeah. We got our assignments about the middle of the training. Um, I remember that day vividly. First we had language tests and you had to achieve a certain level, which I did by the skin of my teeth. I think they were just being nice, but, um. Uh, and then this is the way they do it. They still do it this way in Georgia, I just saw somebody a few weeks ago who told me.

They make the, the staff, they make a big map of Georgia with like tape or something, um, out in the playground of the school. And they put like rocks where the main cities and assignments are, and then they give an envelope to one person and it has someone's name on it. So they call that person's name. And that person like, you were all circled around the map, comes out and like takes the envelope and opens it. I'm going to, you know, Kutaisi. And then they walk over and stand on the Kutaisi stone. And then that just like continues throughout. Everybody's giving each other assignments and everybody's walking to their different places. And in the end, we're all standing on the place where we are. So.

[Assistant] The Peace corps coordinator is giving out the assignments and then?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Uh huh. You've already been pegged for an assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Uh huh. You've already been pegged for an assignment.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Oh, yeah. Totally. So, um, and then after that, off you go to, um. Um, wait. I'm trying to remember the order of this exactly. Because then, yeah, then you go, we went to another place. We had, like an orientation weekend where we meet the people, our counterparts, who are going to be working with. We were back in Bazaleti actually, more training. And then there's a big thing. It was very similar to when we met our training host family. Big crowd, pulling names, coming forward. Yes. Oh my God. It's, um, so I, uh, I met my, uh, the person who ran the organization I was going to be working with. Her name also is Eka. There's, like, six names in Georgia. Nino, Miya, Eka, a few others. Salomé. Um, there's just not, yeah.

[Assistant] What was the, what was the organization? Was it a NGO or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They both are food inspectors for the government, they don't need. It's not a money thing. As a matter of fact, when I tried to give them my last prorated month of money, she refused to take it. You need it for your new apartment. I had to put it on a shelf. That was very un- Georgian, but I maintained my relationship with them the whole time. I went there every weekend for dinner, and I formed an especially close relationship with their oldest daughter, Salome, who's very bright. I helped her with her English, not in terms of really tutoring, but we read The Hunger Games together and every week we would discuss a chapter. When the third movie came out, we went to Tbilisi together, and it was such an adventure to see the third movie. It was like a little expedition out to see.

[Assistant] Are you still in touch with these people?

[User] Oh, yes, I am. All of them, especially Salome. Salome, actually, after the Peace Corps, as I think I've mentioned, I stayed in Georgia for like three more years just until I came here. And she lived with me in Tbilisi. She had her own room, and it was only supposed to be a month or two because her parents bought her a tiny apartment in Tbilisi to live in when she went to college. But there was some big dispute with the gas company. I never could quite get what the problem exactly was, but it took years to resolve. So the whole time she lived with me. So I'll just say like she's like a daughter to me.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] I remember once I was complaining to my son like, she's never leaving. I mean, like she, she lived in the second bedroom, which was my office, and I had my own business writing grants, so like I kind of needed it.

[Assistant] Is that what you did post Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember once I was complaining to my son like, she's never leaving. I mean, like she, she lived in the second bedroom, which was my office, and I had my own business writing grants, so like I kind of needed it.

[Assistant] Is that what you did post Peace Corps?

[User] Yes, yes. I had lots of clients, including CHCA.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And, um, I, uh, I like I wanted my office back and he's like, well, mom, you know, you always wanted a daughter. And I'm like, yeah, but like 20 years ago, okay, not now. But truthfully, she is like a daughter to me. I mean, we're Skyping tomorrow. We Skype every three weeks. We text all the time.

[Assistant] What is her name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, um, I, uh, I like I wanted my office back and he's like, well, mom, you know, you always wanted a daughter. And I'm like, yeah, but like 20 years ago, okay, not now. But truthfully, she is like a daughter to me. I mean, we're Skyping tomorrow. We Skype every three weeks. We text all the time.

[Assistant] What is her name?

[User] Salome.

[Assistant] Solome.

[User] Salome.

[Assistant] Solome with an O?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Salome.

[Assistant] Solome with an O?

[User] No. S. Well, is there an O in there? S-A-L-O-M-E. Salome.

[Assistant] Aha.

[User] And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with.

[Assistant] Which would be a Georgian agency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. S. Well, is there an O in there? S-A-L-O-M-E. Salome.

[Assistant] Aha.

[User] And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with.

[Assistant] Which would be a Georgian agency?

[User] Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is.

[Assistant] Yes, not if you're working in LA.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with.

[Assistant] Which would be a Georgian agency?

[User] Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is.

[Assistant] Yes, not if you're working in LA.

[User] Yeah, I mean, Georgia, you can drive from one end to the other end in like 11 hours or so. So yes, I mean, it's a lot easier now than of course Micronesia ever would have been. Even now, I think, I mean, I can text, I can Facebook, I can internet, I, you know, it's. I can send packages, they can send packages to me. But so I text with her mom too. And this is how I keep up my Georgian a little bit.

[Assistant] When did you leave Georgia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is.

[Assistant] Yes, not if you're working in LA.

[User] Yeah, I mean, Georgia, you can drive from one end to the other end in like 11 hours or so. So yes, I mean, it's a lot easier now than of course Micronesia ever would have been. Even now, I think, I mean, I can text, I can Facebook, I can internet, I, you know, it's. I can send packages, they can send packages to me. But so I text with her mom too. And this is how I keep up my Georgian a little bit.

[Assistant] When did you leave Georgia?

[User] Uh, ten months ago.

[Assistant] Ten months ago. So you're kind of a new arrival here after a long tenure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, ten months ago.

[Assistant] Ten months ago. So you're kind of a new arrival here after a long tenure.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In Georgia.

[User] It's been a big adjustment.

[Assistant] Has that been tough?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In Georgia.

[User] It's been a big adjustment.

[Assistant] Has that been tough?

[User] Yeah, because, I mean, it's a big adjustment being from the West Coast.

[Assistant] This is not L.A.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, because, I mean, it's a big adjustment being from the West Coast.

[Assistant] This is not L.A.

[User] No, it's not. To North Carolina as well as from Georgia. And so, you know, I mean, I came for a job and I'm working in an office. It's just such a different environment than Georgia, it's just so different and not in a good way.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And it's been it's a big adjustment, a big adjustment. But, you know, um, I mean, I'm surviving. So in terms of Georgia.

[Assistant] What, what. But the people you're working with here, it just isn't like Georgia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it's not. To North Carolina as well as from Georgia. And so, you know, I mean, I came for a job and I'm working in an office. It's just such a different environment than Georgia, it's just so different and not in a good way.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And it's been it's a big adjustment, a big adjustment. But, you know, um, I mean, I'm surviving. So in terms of Georgia.

[Assistant] What, what. But the people you're working with here, it just isn't like Georgia?

[User] No, they're very nice people. I don't want to say anything bad about my current position, but it's just the kind of social ties that you make there. The kinds of friendships and the kinds of, um, relationships you have at the office that just don't exist here. It's just different. It's been a big, big adjustment for me.

[Assistant] More distant here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they're very nice people. I don't want to say anything bad about my current position, but it's just the kind of social ties that you make there. The kinds of friendships and the kinds of, um, relationships you have at the office that just don't exist here. It's just different. It's been a big, big adjustment for me.

[Assistant] More distant here?

[User] Much.

[Assistant] Less personable?

[User] Much.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Much.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Yeah.

[User] Everyone eats lunch at their desk at my office.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] You know, in Georgia, it's, it's a, it's a group thing. There's often wine involved. And it's just not, it's just different. It's a little hard to explain because there's something amorphous about it. And Georgian people can be on the surface actually quite unfriendly. Like if they don't know you, they don't pay any attention to you. It's not like they've got it out for you, but they just like walk by you on the street.

[Assistant] It's like that in Armenia as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everyone eats lunch at their desk at my office.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] You know, in Georgia, it's, it's a, it's a group thing. There's often wine involved. And it's just not, it's just different. It's a little hard to explain because there's something amorphous about it. And Georgian people can be on the surface actually quite unfriendly. Like if they don't know you, they don't pay any attention to you. It's not like they've got it out for you, but they just like walk by you on the street.

[Assistant] It's like that in Armenia as well.

[User] Yeah, but in, um, but your family and your, all the extended family and then the friends that you make, you become like family to them. That's a whole different world. And anybody you bring, they will treat like family. So, like when my friend Malcolm came with two other friends, we had supra at my family's house. There was toasting, uh, you know, my friend Malcolm speaks fluent Russian. So my host father, Basil, was so happy that he finally had somebody he could talk about politics with because that was beyond my Georgian capabilities. Um, when my son came, oh my God, giant supra expeditions out to Ateni.

[Assistant] Sara's boy is here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but in, um, but your family and your, all the extended family and then the friends that you make, you become like family to them. That's a whole different world. And anybody you bring, they will treat like family. So, like when my friend Malcolm came with two other friends, we had supra at my family's house. There was toasting, uh, you know, my friend Malcolm speaks fluent Russian. So my host father, Basil, was so happy that he finally had somebody he could talk about politics with because that was beyond my Georgian capabilities. Um, when my son came, oh my God, giant supra expeditions out to Ateni.

[Assistant] Sara's boy is here.

[User] Oh, yeah, it was.

[Assistant] Big deal.

[User] Yes, it was. So.

[Assistant] Did he get married off while he was there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. So.

[Assistant] Did he get married off while he was there?

[User] They would have liked it. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Yeah. I didn't get it so much because I'm older. But the young girls, oh my God, they were constantly. Beautiful, educated, smart American girls were, like, pushed into the arms of, you know, farm louts, you know, guys who didn't even finish high school and couldn't speak English.

[Assistant] Oh boy.

[User] And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted.

[Assistant] Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They would have liked it. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Yeah. I didn't get it so much because I'm older. But the young girls, oh my God, they were constantly. Beautiful, educated, smart American girls were, like, pushed into the arms of, you know, farm louts, you know, guys who didn't even finish high school and couldn't speak English.

[Assistant] Oh boy.

[User] And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted.

[Assistant] Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure.

[User] They are. So I mean, I really loved it there. I loved, um, the people and, you know, and that culture that, that. Uh, there are things about the culture I didn't like certainly, but, but overall, it was just a culture I felt very comfortable in and like I could be part of. And I worked hard on my Georgian, and I learned actually a lot even after I left the Peace Corps. And I had to use it a little more in Tbilisi than in Gori, which was surprising. In Gori, when I would try and use my Georgian, I'd go in a store and try and use it. They would just stare at me and they would say [speaks Georgian] which means I don't understand you. I can't understand you. They wouldn't like make it.

[Assistant] Because of a regional dialectical difference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted.

[Assistant] Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure.

[User] They are. So I mean, I really loved it there. I loved, um, the people and, you know, and that culture that, that. Uh, there are things about the culture I didn't like certainly, but, but overall, it was just a culture I felt very comfortable in and like I could be part of. And I worked hard on my Georgian, and I learned actually a lot even after I left the Peace Corps. And I had to use it a little more in Tbilisi than in Gori, which was surprising. In Gori, when I would try and use my Georgian, I'd go in a store and try and use it. They would just stare at me and they would say [speaks Georgian] which means I don't understand you. I can't understand you. They wouldn't like make it.

[Assistant] Because of a regional dialectical difference?

[User] No. Just because I had an accent, I was a foreigner. And, you know, if I'd spoken Russian. Yeah. But in Tbilisi, they're a little more used to foreigners.

[Assistant] Oh, yes, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Just because I had an accent, I was a foreigner. And, you know, if I'd spoken Russian. Yeah. But in Tbilisi, they're a little more used to foreigners.

[Assistant] Oh, yes, yes.

[User] There were still a lot of people who didn't speak English. And I'd have, you know, shop owners in my area where I lived, and I'd have to speak, uh, Georgian with them. And they were willing to speak Georgian with me. You know, they weren't just. Gori people are a little cold, but I still loved it there. I had an apartment with a great view. I had my family, I had Marta. I really enjoyed my work, as I say, uh, a lot of grants. And I would go into Tbilisi like about once a week, um, and go to the main office there. And I would go to lunch and we would talk about politics, we would talk about the organization of Abkhazia, the IDP situation in Georgia. I learned so much from that. I really did. She left the organization to go work for the Danish Refugee Council, and her husband Nukri became the director, and I worked for him for a couple of years after the Peace Corps. Very difficult man.

[Assistant] But this was in Tbilisi?

[User] Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time.

[Assistant] Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were still a lot of people who didn't speak English. And I'd have, you know, shop owners in my area where I lived, and I'd have to speak, uh, Georgian with them. And they were willing to speak Georgian with me. You know, they weren't just. Gori people are a little cold, but I still loved it there. I had an apartment with a great view. I had my family, I had Marta. I really enjoyed my work, as I say, uh, a lot of grants. And I would go into Tbilisi like about once a week, um, and go to the main office there. And I would go to lunch and we would talk about politics, we would talk about the organization of Abkhazia, the IDP situation in Georgia. I learned so much from that. I really did. She left the organization to go work for the Danish Refugee Council, and her husband Nukri became the director, and I worked for him for a couple of years after the Peace Corps. Very difficult man.

[Assistant] But this was in Tbilisi?

[User] Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time.

[Assistant] Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Further acumen and so on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time.

[Assistant] Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Further acumen and so on?

[User] Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too.

[Assistant] This was within Georgia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Further acumen and so on?

[User] Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too.

[Assistant] This was within Georgia?

[User] Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants.

[Assistant] So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too.

[Assistant] This was within Georgia?

[User] Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants.

[Assistant] So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?

[User] No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during.

[Assistant] I see. Oh, I see.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants.

[Assistant] So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?

[User] No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during.

[Assistant] I see. Oh, I see.

[User] After, no.

[Assistant] Yeah. No, you were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during.

[Assistant] I see. Oh, I see.

[User] After, no.

[Assistant] Yeah. No, you were.

[User] I was.

[Assistant] That was it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was.

[Assistant] That was it.

[User] Yeah, that was it actually. I still stayed friends with a few people in the office and had lunch now and then.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I was not a Peace Corps volunteer.

[Assistant] No. And Peace Corps comes and goes. You had ties.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
So we formed a board. We really cemented the relationship with MAC. Um, we, um, held these events. We held one in Gori. It was great. It worked because there's a disabled center there, actually, whose director is in a wheelchair. And so it was really easy to recruit the kids. It's a little harder to recruit the volunteers, but, um, it went very, very well. And we would have them like every other month all over the country. And MAC, uh, brought some resources to that and supported it.

And I actually ended up being, doing a lot of grant writing consulting for MAC after I left the Peace Corps. The head of it is, um, his name's Jeremy Gaskill. He was a Peace Corps volunteer, he and his wife, in the, uh, 19, 19, late 1990s in, uh, Zestaponi, which is a rather godforsaken place. Um, and so he came back. He's got three kids, and they live in Georgia, and he runs the organization. I did a lot of grant writing for them. He's a great guy. Um, so, um, that was, that was an organization I was really quite pleased.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Working with and being associated with and putting on those events.

[Assistant] Yep.

[User] I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that.

[Assistant] Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Working with and being associated with and putting on those events.

[Assistant] Yep.

[User] I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that.

[Assistant] Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?

[User] Well, I work for, I work for a nonprofit, Ipas.

[Assistant] Ipas, uh huh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that.

[Assistant] Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?

[User] Well, I work for, I work for a nonprofit, Ipas.

[Assistant] Ipas, uh huh.

[User] They're in, um, uh, Southern Village, Chapel Hill. So a lot of driving. Um, I'm there on contract. I'm there, well, I got promoted recently, so now I'm their senior contracting grant manager. But I don't do grant writing anymore. That job doesn't involve writing. It's more legal in nature, compliance and stuff like that. But, um, yeah, it's a good job. Well paid, good benefits, but socially it's a little bleak. So, um, I'm finding that ageism here in the U.S. is, it's quite subtle, and I certainly can't accuse Ipas of it. I mean, they hired me, so obviously, I mean, they, they took a gamble in that way. But, um, the, it's mostly young women there. And like, they're perfectly nice to me, but no one has ever invited me anywhere.

[Assistant] Mm hmm, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just think it doesn't occur to them. You know, it's like, what could she possibly have in common with us? In the Peace Corps, those young people are forced to associate with you.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And even then, you know, there was some resistance in Georgia. But, I mean, thankfully, there was a big enough group of people that there were plenty who weren't that way at all. I became, I just put my friend efforts over there and ignored the other ones. But here it's a lot harder. Um, I mean, all my friends in Georgia are young, all of them. I don't even have any, I don't even have any old friends. Really. But, uh, yeah. So it's, but it's, it's a nice place. I'm just putting my efforts elsewhere, like, I'm involved with this group called You Can Vote, which is just a nonpartisan political, you know, voter enfranchisement organization. And I'm meeting with them next week, as a matter of fact, to talk about doing some grant writing for them, because I just want to, I really enjoy writing and I'd like to keep doing that.

[Assistant] So basically, if you want a social life, it's not going to be in the workplace. It's going to be.

[User] No, I don't think so.

[Assistant] You're going to explore the community and find niches that would be.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And even then, you know, there was some resistance in Georgia. But, I mean, thankfully, there was a big enough group of people that there were plenty who weren't that way at all. I became, I just put my friend efforts over there and ignored the other ones. But here it's a lot harder. Um, I mean, all my friends in Georgia are young, all of them. I don't even have any, I don't even have any old friends. Really. But, uh, yeah. So it's, but it's, it's a nice place. I'm just putting my efforts elsewhere, like, I'm involved with this group called You Can Vote, which is just a nonpartisan political, you know, voter enfranchisement organization. And I'm meeting with them next week, as a matter of fact, to talk about doing some grant writing for them, because I just want to, I really enjoy writing and I'd like to keep doing that.

[Assistant] So basically, if you want a social life, it's not going to be in the workplace. It's going to be.

[User] No, I don't think so.

[Assistant] You're going to explore the community and find niches that would be.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] Open to, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] Open to, yeah.

[User] Yeah. So that's why I got involved with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group.

[Assistant] Sure, sure.

[User] Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?

[Assistant] Yes, I do, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So that's why I got involved with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group.

[Assistant] Sure, sure.

[User] Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?

[Assistant] Yes, I do, yeah.

[User] Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia.

[Assistant] Ah, that's right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?

[Assistant] Yes, I do, yeah.

[User] Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia.

[Assistant] Ah, that's right.

[User] Yeah, yeah, he was in [inaudible].

[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. Well, that's a commonality. That's, you know, that's a start.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia.

[Assistant] Ah, that's right.

[User] Yeah, yeah, he was in [inaudible].

[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. Well, that's a commonality. That's, you know, that's a start.

[User] Peggy Schaffer, she's very nice.

[Assistant] I know Peggy. Yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peggy Schaffer, she's very nice.

[Assistant] I know Peggy. Yeah, yeah.

[User] She's very, she's been very nice to me and helped connect me with a number of people.

[Assistant] Good, good.

[User] And sometimes I go to the book club. Unfortunately, I just haven't managed recently, but I like it, and.

[Assistant] I've gone to a couple of those, but I can't schedule it in. It's just.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very recently here.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] In Raleigh.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And we, we drove together. She drove.

[Assistant] I was there too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we, we drove together. She drove.

[Assistant] I was there too.

[User] Oh, you were?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] See, I was there too. Do you remember me?

[Assistant] It was a rather large Victorian house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, you were?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] See, I was there too. Do you remember me?

[Assistant] It was a rather large Victorian house.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I don't, but.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I'm like, oh gosh. I started crying just to hear the Georgian, you know.

[Assistant] Yes, yes.

[User] And he has a good accent too. And you know, I turned around and we kissed, which is the typical, very typical. Once, one kiss. Go, go right. And, uh, men to men all kiss each other. Women all kiss each other, and even women kiss men. I mean, that is the, that's a business greeting in Georgia.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Occasionally I had people who would try and shake hands with me, and I would tell them in Georgia, like, cut it out. We're in Georgia, now give me a kiss. But people, you know, who I worked for, worked with. But, um, yeah, Nukri always did that. He was always shaking. Nukri, for God's sake! But, uh. So, yeah. So we kissed and then we started, you know, we immediately switched to English, but I mean, just to hear the language, it was great. So we've become friendly.

[Assistant] Well, I appreciate your taking the time to share your story with us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he has a good accent too. And you know, I turned around and we kissed, which is the typical, very typical. Once, one kiss. Go, go right. And, uh, men to men all kiss each other. Women all kiss each other, and even women kiss men. I mean, that is the, that's a business greeting in Georgia.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Occasionally I had people who would try and shake hands with me, and I would tell them in Georgia, like, cut it out. We're in Georgia, now give me a kiss. But people, you know, who I worked for, worked with. But, um, yeah, Nukri always did that. He was always shaking. Nukri, for God's sake! But, uh. So, yeah. So we kissed and then we started, you know, we immediately switched to English, but I mean, just to hear the language, it was great. So we've become friendly.

[Assistant] Well, I appreciate your taking the time to share your story with us.

[User] Sure. How long have I been talking? I don't know. Not that bad.

[Assistant] Can you think of any final comments or that you might want to add?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I mean, I did it twice.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] So obviously I'm a supporter of Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User]
I think it's, um, I, you know, I think it's just, expands your worldview in, in a way that cannot be found otherwise. It's unique because, you know, you, even if you travel a lot, even if you stay somewhere, it's just completely different from being really embedded and living in a community, working in a community. It's a rare experience. And I think for Americans in particular, it's really important. And, um, I think that, you know, you get as much from it as they get from you and in some cases more.

And, um, you know, I mean, it's not perfect for everybody. There's definitely people who really struggle with it. Um, and then there's other people who just do great and they're so happy, and everything in between. So you have to have, you know, reasonable expectations, be flexible, you know, be able to endure a lot of like emotional upheaval. Um, But, you know, in the end, I think it's, it's totally, totally worth it. And, you know, I'm very, I do not regret for a minute that I did it, either time.

[Assistant] I'm guessing that Georgia will continue to be a part of your, your existence in some ways.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I think it's, um, I, you know, I think it's just, expands your worldview in, in a way that cannot be found otherwise. It's unique because, you know, you, even if you travel a lot, even if you stay somewhere, it's just completely different from being really embedded and living in a community, working in a community. It's a rare experience. And I think for Americans in particular, it's really important. And, um, I think that, you know, you get as much from it as they get from you and in some cases more.

And, um, you know, I mean, it's not perfect for everybody. There's definitely people who really struggle with it. Um, and then there's other people who just do great and they're so happy, and everything in between. So you have to have, you know, reasonable expectations, be flexible, you know, be able to endure a lot of like emotional upheaval. Um, But, you know, in the end, I think it's, it's totally, totally worth it. And, you know, I'm very, I do not regret for a minute that I did it, either time.

[Assistant] I'm guessing that Georgia will continue to be a part of your, your existence in some ways.

[User] Sure. It will. Actually, next month. Um, I signed up for this. Thomas is having a supra. Supra, it's a feast.

[Assistant] Ah, yes.

[User] At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction.

[Assistant] I remember it. Yes, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. It will. Actually, next month. Um, I signed up for this. Thomas is having a supra. Supra, it's a feast.

[Assistant] Ah, yes.

[User] At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction.

[Assistant] I remember it. Yes, yes.

[User] And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine.

[Assistant] Good for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction.

[Assistant] I remember it. Yes, yes.

[User] And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine.

[Assistant] Good for you.

[User] We'll do some toasting. Yeah.

[Assistant] Where are you getting Georgian wine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine.

[Assistant] Good for you.

[User] We'll do some toasting. Yeah.

[Assistant] Where are you getting Georgian wine?

[User] I had to order it from D.C. Good God. I've been in every wine shop in the Triangle. It's, and haven't found any. And you know, it's the birthplace of wine. It's archeologically proven.

[Assistant] I would believe so, yes, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a very, the, the Micronesia experience was a typical Peace Corps experience. Sleeping on the floor, no running water, put the batteries out in the sun. You know, that. Eating dog, whatever.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] But, and the Georgia experience was the polar opposite. I had an apartment, it had a shower. Okay, I had to keep a bucket in there for when the water went off, but I had to climb up five flights. Oh my God, all the windows knocked out and a million wires running along the concrete walls from where everybody bootlegged into it.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] But it was, you know, I had a. It was a, it had a sink. It had a shower. I had a washing machine. It was, it was pretty basic by American standards. You'd be living in public housing. But for Georgia, it was just completely typical. And but it was so, it was just completely the opposite. I lived in a city and an apartment. I had a cell phone that worked. I could Skype with my son, you know, it's just completely different. And yet each experience was really, really valuable and really, really important in my life in very different ways. But I think the underlying value of Peace Corps to help people become more independent, to gain skills, you know, to like meet those three goals at Peace Corps has, was the same. The same. Yeah.

[Assistant] Get more young Americans into the Peace Corps, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. From what I've read, there's.

[Assistant] Good.

[User] I mean, I think that this new, well, it's not that new anymore, but relatively new application system where you apply for specific jobs. Uh, I have very mixed feelings about it, but I don't think it can be disputed that it's resulted in a lot more applications.

[Assistant] I see.

[User] That's what I've heard.

[Assistant] Well, good. Good. Yes. Well, I want to thank you, Sara Feldman, for your oral history of two important stints in the Peace Corps. And I will process this, uh, interview and, and get the information to the JFK Library, and you'll be hearing from them. And you will have access to any and all of this if you need, for any reason, once it's processed and digitalized and so on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I think that this new, well, it's not that new anymore, but relatively new application system where you apply for specific jobs. Uh, I have very mixed feelings about it, but I don't think it can be disputed that it's resulted in a lot more applications.

[Assistant] I see.

[User] That's what I've heard.

[Assistant] Well, good. Good. Yes. Well, I want to thank you, Sara Feldman, for your oral history of two important stints in the Peace Corps. And I will process this, uh, interview and, and get the information to the JFK Library, and you'll be hearing from them. And you will have access to any and all of this if you need, for any reason, once it's processed and digitalized and so on.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Well, thank you again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was signed in Moscow.

[Assistant] Could you share with us more details?

[User] We had had months of discussion about the limitations that we wanted placed on the testing that the Russians would do, and finally we reached an agreement which we shared with agency managers for the project.

[Assistant] Was that at the end of the long stay in Russia for you?

[User] It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program.

[Assistant] Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had had months of discussion about the limitations that we wanted placed on the testing that the Russians would do, and finally we reached an agreement which we shared with agency managers for the project.

[Assistant] Was that at the end of the long stay in Russia for you?

[User] It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program.

[Assistant] Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?

[User] I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting.

[Assistant] More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program.

[Assistant] Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?

[User] I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting.

[Assistant] More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?

[User] Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground.

[Assistant] When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting.

[Assistant] More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?

[User] Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground.

[Assistant] When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?

[User] Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory.

[Assistant] Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground.

[Assistant] When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?

[User] Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory.

[Assistant] Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?

[User] Sure. We had to get agreement with the Russians. That was very easy. The Russians were very quick to accommodate them. We agreed that part of their Prophylactory, at the Gagarin Cosmonaut training Center, which is similar to a small hotel, could be used by NASA. We still use an area on the second floor of the building. The physicians who are sent to assist our crewmembers stay there.

[Assistant] Once the American residents are on the Mir, your flight surgeons are in contact with them on a daily basis. Is that correct? Or can be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory.

[Assistant] Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?

[User] Sure. We had to get agreement with the Russians. That was very easy. The Russians were very quick to accommodate them. We agreed that part of their Prophylactory, at the Gagarin Cosmonaut training Center, which is similar to a small hotel, could be used by NASA. We still use an area on the second floor of the building. The physicians who are sent to assist our crewmembers stay there.

[Assistant] Once the American residents are on the Mir, your flight surgeons are in contact with them on a daily basis. Is that correct? Or can be?

[User] Yes. The communications with the Mir, as you may know, is very limited. It's one of the really difficult areas for people supporting the program, because the opportunity to speak with the crew on board was very limited. It's a matter of satellites and ground stations and access. So we asked the Russians to permit us to speak to our crewmen privately, each day, and to a certain extent we achieved that. But there were days in which we didn't get to talk.

[Assistant] Was that something that was new for them, to have that request?