[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I said, I said, you mean this is not Africa? And they said, no, this is not Africa. But the position is perfect for you, you know, and the plane is leaving in two months or something like that. And I said, I don't want it. And they said, they said, why not? And I said, because I want to go to Africa or something like that. And they said, like, you mean you really want to go to Africa? Now I know how Peace Corps works. So, I mean, it was moving from this guy's desk and he had his stack all ready to go and he had to give it over to this other guy's stack in a completely different world part. And then the plane wasn't leaving for a lot, you know, I had a longer wait.

[Assistant] Of course.

[User] But I was going to have, was going to have Africa. You know, they try to talk you out of it but yeah. Yeah, I wanted Africa. So then when I actually got Lesotho, I was disappointed. It was an English speaking country. English was the second language. And I really wanted to, you know, like master work in another language. I did not do that. I worked primarily in English.

[Assistant] So, you get the letter of acceptance. It's now what year, 2000 something?

[User] It was 2006.

[Assistant] 2006. By now you're probably already 60.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was 2006.

[Assistant] 2006. By now you're probably already 60.

[User] I was, I think I was 59 when I, when I was accepted. I turn, I became 60 in December and I went to Peace Corps in, in November for my training.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So yeah, I was 59.

[Assistant] So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was, I think I was 59 when I, when I was accepted. I turn, I became 60 in December and I went to Peace Corps in, in November for my training.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So yeah, I was 59.

[Assistant] So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] At the Department of Public Instruction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So yeah, I was 59.

[Assistant] So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] At the Department of Public Instruction?

[User] Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time.

[Assistant] So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] At the Department of Public Instruction?

[User] Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time.

[Assistant] So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are.

[User] We call them 50 plus.

[Assistant] Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time.

[Assistant] So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are.

[User] We call them 50 plus.

[Assistant] Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We call them 50 plus.

[Assistant] Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?

[User] I was, it was much easier for me. I was single, so I didn't have children. I was a lifetime renter, still am. So I didn't have a house. My friends were really good friends and they were rural friends. So I put my stuff, I thought I put my stuff in three barns, but when I came back, somehow I retrieved stuff from nine different p-laces, so I must have done things, either I forgot or else the folding chairs, the collection of folding chairs migrated someone else, to someone's house. But anyway, yeah, I had. So I didn't pay any storage. And those were, those were really simple. Yeah. What was less simple was that as soon as I got there, I got a phone call that my brother had a brain tumor.

[Assistant] As soon as you got to Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?

[User] I was, it was much easier for me. I was single, so I didn't have children. I was a lifetime renter, still am. So I didn't have a house. My friends were really good friends and they were rural friends. So I put my stuff, I thought I put my stuff in three barns, but when I came back, somehow I retrieved stuff from nine different p-laces, so I must have done things, either I forgot or else the folding chairs, the collection of folding chairs migrated someone else, to someone's house. But anyway, yeah, I had. So I didn't pay any storage. And those were, those were really simple. Yeah. What was less simple was that as soon as I got there, I got a phone call that my brother had a brain tumor.

[Assistant] As soon as you got to Lesotho?

[User] I was still in training, uh huh.

[Assistant] And you got a phone call saying your brother?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was still in training, uh huh.

[Assistant] And you got a phone call saying your brother?

[User] Had a brain tumor and.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And he said to me, it would mean a lot to me and it would mean a lot to all of us if you stayed where you were. You know, we know that this is a dream of yours and we're kind of living it.

[Assistant] Stay in Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he said to me, it would mean a lot to me and it would mean a lot to all of us if you stayed where you were. You know, we know that this is a dream of yours and we're kind of living it.

[Assistant] Stay in Lesotho?

[User] Yeah. Living it through your eyes. And you're writing these wonderful letters. Yeah. But at his brain tumor progressed really fast, and at the six month mark, thanks to Peace Corps, they have a policy that you can either go home for immediate family members to see them for a last time or for their funeral.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Take your pick.

[Assistant] What'd you pick?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Take your pick.

[Assistant] What'd you pick?

[User] Of course, picked to see him while he was still alive.

[Assistant] Good, good.

[User] So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two.

[Assistant] It makes being far away on a different continent awful.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course, picked to see him while he was still alive.

[Assistant] Good, good.

[User] So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two.

[Assistant] It makes being far away on a different continent awful.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. It's very, it's very difficult. Yeah.

[Assistant] Your training, of course, was in country in Lesotho.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two.

[Assistant] It makes being far away on a different continent awful.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. It's very, it's very difficult. Yeah.

[Assistant] Your training, of course, was in country in Lesotho.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Can we talk a little bit about what you experienced in training? The training would have gone on in the capital city of Lesotho, which is?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Can we talk a little bit about what you experienced in training? The training would have gone on in the capital city of Lesotho, which is?

[User] Maseru.

[Assistant] Maseru?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Where was, what sort of housing did they give you when you first arrived?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maseru.

[Assistant] Maseru?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Where was, what sort of housing did they give you when you first arrived?

[User] We had, um, we had a training center. I think they still have it. It was just a little one story. It was, looked like sort of like those old- fashioned motels where there are little rooms lined up in a, in a block. Another, another block for, um, classrooms, another block for the kitchen. So we just kind of stayed within this little triangle for not too long, maybe a couple of weeks, because you know training had gone that, you know, that the sooner you put the trainees with their family then, or at least in a training village. So we moved very quickly into a training village, which was a real Lesotho village.

[Assistant] Before we go to the training village, what went on in those first three weeks? Were you doing, were you in classrooms studying language and culture and history of the country or what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm almost thinking it was a first one week. It was pretty, pretty fast. And then we would come back there from time to time. Uh. Yeah. So it was, I remember the first thing. I'd been, you know, doing all these presentations and teacher trainings. And the first time we walked into the classroom, the trainers pulled out these flip charts. They were mostly native Basotho trainers. They had us divided up in the morning for languages and the afternoon for culture. And they pulled out these flip charts and I just smiled. I sat there and I went like, I can't believe that they haven't tapped into me. You know, I do this for a living. I train. And I enjoyed so much that all they expected me to do was just sort of sit and be a student and participant. And I would, I had no trouble participating in it. And I went like, these people are really good.

[Assistant] Oh, good.

[User] I was so impressed with the quality of training and, and, you know, just how well the curriculum had been worked over, what we should learn. We didn't learn very much irrelevant stuff.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot.

[Assistant] That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was so impressed with the quality of training and, and, you know, just how well the curriculum had been worked over, what we should learn. We didn't learn very much irrelevant stuff.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot.

[Assistant] That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot.

[Assistant] That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?

[User] Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho.

[Assistant] Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?

[User] Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho.

[Assistant] Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so.

[Assistant] So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho.

[Assistant] Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so.

[Assistant] So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture.

[User] Language. They had small language classes of four. They looked at me like I was elderly and like I wouldn't be able to accomplish much. And I was really incensed about that. And I, I felt like how much a teacher's expectation holds you back, because they would put me, just the two of us, together with this Craig, who was really having trouble remembering how to say hello. And they didn't.

[Assistant] And he was also an over 50 person?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so.

[Assistant] So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture.

[User] Language. They had small language classes of four. They looked at me like I was elderly and like I wouldn't be able to accomplish much. And I was really incensed about that. And I, I felt like how much a teacher's expectation holds you back, because they would put me, just the two of us, together with this Craig, who was really having trouble remembering how to say hello. And they didn't.

[Assistant] And he was also an over 50 person?

[User] He was over 30. He might have been 40, but he was. Because I was the oldest and because he was a person having trouble, they would, they paired. Oh, and because both of us were going to be assigned to the Lesotho College of Education. So we were kind of already in a little subset in some of our other classes. They would, they would put us together. And I just chafed under that.

[Assistant] Was that slowing down your language acquisition?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was over 30. He might have been 40, but he was. Because I was the oldest and because he was a person having trouble, they would, they paired. Oh, and because both of us were going to be assigned to the Lesotho College of Education. So we were kind of already in a little subset in some of our other classes. They would, they would put us together. And I just chafed under that.

[Assistant] Was that slowing down your language acquisition?

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And every once in a while I would insist on being with a fast track class and I would really do that. But every time they would call on me or they would skip over me, I just, I just felt like students feel when a teacher doesn't believe you can do it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so.

[Assistant] So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And every once in a while I would insist on being with a fast track class and I would really do that. But every time they would call on me or they would skip over me, I just, I just felt like students feel when a teacher doesn't believe you can do it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so.

[Assistant] So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier.

[User] I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English.

[Assistant] So they are genuinely bilingual.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so.

[Assistant] So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier.

[User] I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English.

[Assistant] So they are genuinely bilingual.

[User] Genuine.

[Assistant] English was not so much a foreign language as a second language.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English.

[Assistant] So they are genuinely bilingual.

[User] Genuine.

[Assistant] English was not so much a foreign language as a second language.

[User] Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English.

[Assistant] So then the other part of your training happened in a small village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Genuine.

[Assistant] English was not so much a foreign language as a second language.

[User] Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English.

[Assistant] So then the other part of your training happened in a small village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And that village was? Was that Ha?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English.

[Assistant] So then the other part of your training happened in a small village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And that village was? Was that Ha?

[User] Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups.

[Assistant] Okay, and sent off into three different villages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And that village was? Was that Ha?

[User] Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups.

[Assistant] Okay, and sent off into three different villages?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And in that little village you lived with a family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups.

[Assistant] Okay, and sent off into three different villages?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And in that little village you lived with a family?

[User] I lived with, I lived. There was a little separate room. In Lesotho, there's a lot of rondavels, mud huts, or there's little cement block houses with, uh, what do you call this tin roofs?

[Assistant] Corrugated tin roofs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And in that little village you lived with a family?

[User] I lived with, I lived. There was a little separate room. In Lesotho, there's a lot of rondavels, mud huts, or there's little cement block houses with, uh, what do you call this tin roofs?

[Assistant] Corrugated tin roofs.

[User] Hot in the summer and cold in the winter. And the rondavels, the mud houses are, are the reverse. But yeah, this was a, family had a house with a couple bedrooms, and then.

[Assistant] And was it was a rondavel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hot in the summer and cold in the winter. And the rondavels, the mud houses are, are the reverse. But yeah, this was a, family had a house with a couple bedrooms, and then.

[Assistant] And was it was a rondavel?

[User] And it was, it was the cement block house.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And then it had a little separate bedroom to the side. And I think the older boy slept there until I came. And then for the month of training, then I would sleep, I slept there. And the older boys doubled up, slept on the floor someplace else.

[Assistant] And did you have a door that you could close? Did you have privacy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was, it was the cement block house.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And then it had a little separate bedroom to the side. And I think the older boy slept there until I came. And then for the month of training, then I would sleep, I slept there. And the older boys doubled up, slept on the floor someplace else.

[Assistant] And did you have a door that you could close? Did you have privacy?

[User] I did have privacy.

[Assistant] Within that room. And when you ate your meals, you would eat with the family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would eat with the family or they would bring in my meals, bring in my meal. And Peace Corps had told them that we had to have protein and that we liked peanut butter and that we. So we ate much better, I ate much better than the family.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] But then I kind of objected to that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, so that meant that I either had to share what I had, which I would tend to do. They would put down like a bowl of papa, which was cornmeal mush, for the three children. And they would sit down with me and then I would get this plate that had, you know, looked like out of a nutritionist's, you know, they had given them actual physical pictures of what to serve us. And they'd given the money to buy the extra food. But it wasn't extra food for.

[Assistant] For the whole family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everyone. You know, so.

[Assistant] That's awkward.

[User] It was awkward. But anyway, the kids were fascinated by what I was eating and I was fascinated by what they were eating. So I would bring my tray in and then I would divide up the food so that the kids could, you know, taste whatever it was I was tasting, you know. And then I would sometimes buy a little extra so the mom could make, if she was going to make pudding for me, to make a little extra so she could make pudding for the kids. And I wasn't supposed to do that. But anyway, it was. I think Peace Corps volunteers cheat a lot on that sort of, that sort of, what do you call it? Generosity that might be mistaken. But anyway, it's hard not to share your food with the people.

[Assistant] No kidding.

[User] Around you.

[Assistant] I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was awkward. But anyway, the kids were fascinated by what I was eating and I was fascinated by what they were eating. So I would bring my tray in and then I would divide up the food so that the kids could, you know, taste whatever it was I was tasting, you know. And then I would sometimes buy a little extra so the mom could make, if she was going to make pudding for me, to make a little extra so she could make pudding for the kids. And I wasn't supposed to do that. But anyway, it was. I think Peace Corps volunteers cheat a lot on that sort of, that sort of, what do you call it? Generosity that might be mistaken. But anyway, it's hard not to share your food with the people.

[Assistant] No kidding.

[User] Around you.

[Assistant] I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Around you.

[Assistant] I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it.

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] It's a dilemma, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it.

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] It's a dilemma, I think.

[User] And it got to be when I was a volunteer and I was out of training. I would go all the way to Maseru, a six hour bus ride, to go to one kind of an upscale grocery. There was only one in Maseru at that time, and it was where all the diplomatic families shopped and all the wealthy Basotho. And I could get things like a package of Oreo cookies or a jar of peanut butter or.

[Assistant] A jar of olives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it got to be when I was a volunteer and I was out of training. I would go all the way to Maseru, a six hour bus ride, to go to one kind of an upscale grocery. There was only one in Maseru at that time, and it was where all the diplomatic families shopped and all the wealthy Basotho. And I could get things like a package of Oreo cookies or a jar of peanut butter or.

[Assistant] A jar of olives?

[User] Box wine, that was real, that was real contraband. And then I would take it in my backpack and I would unpack it, like secret it away. And when people came into my rondavel, I had a rondavel when I was in the village, I would always make sure that my cupboards were shut. And, you know, then I did eat and not share. And every once in a while I would have my family over, you know, for, or guests over for dinner and things like that. But it was just such a stark difference from very poor people that are eating a bowl of papa every day, three times a day, you know, to, to the kind of way I was eating with cheese and bread and, yeah.

[Assistant] What's papa?

[User] Papa is a cornmeal mush. It was the main staple of Lesotho and a 100 pound bag sold for about $27. That would last a family some portion of a month.

[Assistant] Yeah. I'm not sure we finished training. I'm itching to get into the village and what your work was as a Peace Corps volunteer. But how long, how long did the training last?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Papa is a cornmeal mush. It was the main staple of Lesotho and a 100 pound bag sold for about $27. That would last a family some portion of a month.

[Assistant] Yeah. I'm not sure we finished training. I'm itching to get into the village and what your work was as a Peace Corps volunteer. But how long, how long did the training last?

[User] I think training was three, three months in all. And so we were a couple of weeks with, uh, with, at the center, and then we were a month with the family. And then we were back to the center during Christmas when all the men, the Basotho men, came home from the mines and they didn't, they didn't want us around. There tend to be a lot of drinking, some fights. The couples need a chance for some privacy.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And families need to be families without the distraction. So they pulled us out and we were all like, oh, we want to do Christmas. We want to do Christmas, because we're thinking, you know, Christmas on our terms. But yeah. And then, then we went to visit another volunteer. I had a wonderful, wonderful experience visiting another volunteer for I think four days.

[Assistant] Oh, a volunteer who had been there before you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And families need to be families without the distraction. So they pulled us out and we were all like, oh, we want to do Christmas. We want to do Christmas, because we're thinking, you know, Christmas on our terms. But yeah. And then, then we went to visit another volunteer. I had a wonderful, wonderful experience visiting another volunteer for I think four days.

[Assistant] Oh, a volunteer who had been there before you?

[User] Right, who was ahead of us.

[Assistant] Okay, yeah.

[User] Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year.

[Assistant] Oh, that's exciting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, who was ahead of us.

[Assistant] Okay, yeah.

[User] Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year.

[Assistant] Oh, that's exciting.

[User] Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months.

[Assistant] And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year.

[Assistant] Oh, that's exciting.

[User] Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months.

[Assistant] And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?

[User] They only got a week.

[Assistant] Oh, my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months.

[Assistant] And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?

[User] They only got a week.

[Assistant] Oh, my goodness.

[User] A week's vacation in a year, and more than two days of that was just transportation, you know. So they really had about three or four days in the village with their family.

[Assistant] It was right to pull you out, I think, because that family really needed to focus not on you, but the spotlight on the man who had returned.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They only got a week.

[Assistant] Oh, my goodness.

[User] A week's vacation in a year, and more than two days of that was just transportation, you know. So they really had about three or four days in the village with their family.

[Assistant] It was right to pull you out, I think, because that family really needed to focus not on you, but the spotlight on the man who had returned.

[User] Right, right. I would, I would have been a distraction. Yeah.

[Assistant] So at the end of training then, was there some sort of ceremony?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was. There was a nice ceremony, and I've seen pictures of it since then. I think what I would want to add, though, is what it's like being the only 60 year old among 20 somethings.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And that a lot of times I felt like I was supposed to be learning about the Lesotho culture, but I was learning as much about how 20 somethings lived and.

[Assistant] Americans.

[User] Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so.

[Assistant] When you say an early couple, you mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that a lot of times I felt like I was supposed to be learning about the Lesotho culture, but I was learning as much about how 20 somethings lived and.

[Assistant] Americans.

[User] Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so.

[Assistant] When you say an early couple, you mean?

[User] Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation.

[Assistant] Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so.

[Assistant] When you say an early couple, you mean?

[User] Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation.

[Assistant] Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] And knew they were meant for one another.

[Assistant] But they met through Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation.

[Assistant] Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] And knew they were meant for one another.

[Assistant] But they met through Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah, they met, yeah. We had several couples. Several pregnancies.

[Assistant] And how many? How many people all together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And knew they were meant for one another.

[Assistant] But they met through Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah, they met, yeah. We had several couples. Several pregnancies.

[Assistant] And how many? How many people all together?

[User] I think we were about 30.

[Assistant] 30 people in your group. That's a relatively small group, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we were about 30.

[Assistant] 30 people in your group. That's a relatively small group, I think.

[User] Is it? Well, I mean, in Lesotho, all together then we were like 60 or 70.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And now I think they're up to 100.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Uh huh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Is it? Well, I mean, in Lesotho, all together then we were like 60 or 70.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And now I think they're up to 100.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Uh huh.

[User] Yeah. They had an intake, a health intake, and then a half year later, an education intake. And then they were like that.

[Assistant] So you had some people who paired up during training and there were some other people who arrived as married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] No?

[User] No, they, they met. We didn't have any married couples in our group. It was a really young group and I was kind of the, the. So Craig, who was assigned with me, and then the two woman, women, Anne Marie and Sarah, who were in their forties, we were kind of the older group. And then with these other two couples, they, we were kind of the nonconformists. But the other people, they would, at 4:00 they would say, do you guys want to get drunk tonight? And it was a serious question. And they'd all say yes. And then Jason would, you know, collect money from everyone. And then he and a couple of other people would go down to the liquor store and come back with, you know, each of them had bottles, you know, like not just a beer, but like whiskey, like hard stuff.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] And then they would proceed to drink all, dance and have music and maybe start with, start with movies or something. And sometimes they'd have a theme, like dress up like a toga party or something. They're just kind of blowing off steam, and our Mosotho woman who was with us 24/7, it didn't bother her at all. She'd seen Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Huh. Seen this before.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] People blowing off steam before. And, you know, we were in our little compound and there were no Basotho watching us except for the guards. And I would always kind of bow out and go to bed early. And I'd get up in the morning like at 5:00 or 6:00. I would run in the early morning. And there would be bottles everywhere. And what was so embarrassing to me was not just the mess that people had left. Oh, and cigarettes, cigarette butts. But if you factored in how much cigarettes cost and how much liquor cost, that I knew that when the guards changed at six and an extra guard came that they would be seeing just this, it's just such a wasteful display of wealth. And so I cleaned up after every single party we had during training.

[Assistant] Oh, oh, oh.

[User] I would go around, clean up all the cigarettes and put all of the bottles. I mean, it didn't fool anyone, you know, I'm sure the guards knew that we'd drunk all that stuff or, you know, that they talked about it. But it just sort of seemed like to, both to do it and then to not clean up after yourself. And I also was conscious of, you know, just as a mother, an older woman, to the women who were always cleaning up after us, you know, like well couldn't we just? Just give me the broom, I'll sweep out our own room. You know, that kind of thing is what we older women would say. But the younger people, I'd just go like, oh my gosh, they're so young. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, were you able to do anything about that? I mean, could you address this issue with the whole group or?

[User] Not the drinking issue.

[Assistant] Not your mission to do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would go around, clean up all the cigarettes and put all of the bottles. I mean, it didn't fool anyone, you know, I'm sure the guards knew that we'd drunk all that stuff or, you know, that they talked about it. But it just sort of seemed like to, both to do it and then to not clean up after yourself. And I also was conscious of, you know, just as a mother, an older woman, to the women who were always cleaning up after us, you know, like well couldn't we just? Just give me the broom, I'll sweep out our own room. You know, that kind of thing is what we older women would say. But the younger people, I'd just go like, oh my gosh, they're so young. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, were you able to do anything about that? I mean, could you address this issue with the whole group or?

[User] Not the drinking issue.

[Assistant] Not your mission to do that?

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And any time, I learned really fast that the minute I tried to give advice, and since I'm an oldest child, that's a really bad habit of mine, people just shut me off. So I really learned not to try to give advice or pretend I was wiser or more experienced and, uh.

[Assistant] But you wouldn't be pretending.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And any time, I learned really fast that the minute I tried to give advice, and since I'm an oldest child, that's a really bad habit of mine, people just shut me off. So I really learned not to try to give advice or pretend I was wiser or more experienced and, uh.

[Assistant] But you wouldn't be pretending.

[User] Well, you know, sometimes I'd work in small groups with people and we were like writing curriculum or something like that, you know? And so I'd kind of want to say something like, this lesson doesn't have an object, you know? But yeah, we did, uh. It was more like when I quit giving advice to people and thinking of myself as wiser, I realized when it came to Basotho culture, we were really all on the same, on the same level. We were all equal. I was as ignorant as they were. I made as many mistakes as they did. I struggled as much with language, if not more so, than they did. And so there was a real humility before these 20 somethings. And then when I was like that, you know, I became more likable to them.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] They didn't want a chaperone or an old lady or an auntie.

[Assistant] Or a mom.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, sometimes I'd work in small groups with people and we were like writing curriculum or something like that, you know? And so I'd kind of want to say something like, this lesson doesn't have an object, you know? But yeah, we did, uh. It was more like when I quit giving advice to people and thinking of myself as wiser, I realized when it came to Basotho culture, we were really all on the same, on the same level. We were all equal. I was as ignorant as they were. I made as many mistakes as they did. I struggled as much with language, if not more so, than they did. And so there was a real humility before these 20 somethings. And then when I was like that, you know, I became more likable to them.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] They didn't want a chaperone or an old lady or an auntie.

[Assistant] Or a mom.

[User] Or a mom with them, you know. But every once in a while, you know, when a young person would be walking with me and they would say, boy, I hope when I'm your age I'm, you know, doing fun things. And I'd always kind of look at them because at that moment I was just thinking of, they were 26 and I was 26. We were both 26. And every once in a while they would say something to remind me that they did really see me as an older lady. It was, it was great. Being around with 20 somethings was as much of a cultural challenge and as educational as it was being around Basotho.

[Assistant] This is jumping way ahead, but have you maintained friendships with some of those 20 somethings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or a mom with them, you know. But every once in a while, you know, when a young person would be walking with me and they would say, boy, I hope when I'm your age I'm, you know, doing fun things. And I'd always kind of look at them because at that moment I was just thinking of, they were 26 and I was 26. We were both 26. And every once in a while they would say something to remind me that they did really see me as an older lady. It was, it was great. Being around with 20 somethings was as much of a cultural challenge and as educational as it was being around Basotho.

[Assistant] This is jumping way ahead, but have you maintained friendships with some of those 20 somethings?

[User] Just the ones I've mentioned, the ones that I kind of formed a, a connection with there. Those six to eight people.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And the other people that I didn't really form close, I have them all on an email list and now I'm newsletter editor for the newsletter. So I find excuses to send them this and that that I think people might be interested in or might like to know. But I rarely get back any reply so. I don't think it was a negative feeling. It's just like I didn't come out with 30 close friends. I came out with, you know, about 6 to 8 close friends.

[Assistant] Sounds just about right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just the ones I've mentioned, the ones that I kind of formed a, a connection with there. Those six to eight people.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And the other people that I didn't really form close, I have them all on an email list and now I'm newsletter editor for the newsletter. So I find excuses to send them this and that that I think people might be interested in or might like to know. But I rarely get back any reply so. I don't think it was a negative feeling. It's just like I didn't come out with 30 close friends. I came out with, you know, about 6 to 8 close friends.

[Assistant] Sounds just about right.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So your training is finished and now you move to the village that will be your home for two or maybe three years. Where, um, where was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So your training is finished and now you move to the village that will be your home for two or maybe three years. Where, um, where was that?

[User] That was in the south, southern part of Lesotho, in a, um, in the province called Quthing, Q-U-T-H-I-N-G. And there was, there's kind of a road, one road that goes around Lesotho. All of it is really close to the border of South Africa because it's in the middle of South Africa. But there's a lot of mountains in the middle, and this one road doesn't go all the way around Lesotho. It's more like a C shape.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up.

[Assistant] Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was in the south, southern part of Lesotho, in a, um, in the province called Quthing, Q-U-T-H-I-N-G. And there was, there's kind of a road, one road that goes around Lesotho. All of it is really close to the border of South Africa because it's in the middle of South Africa. But there's a lot of mountains in the middle, and this one road doesn't go all the way around Lesotho. It's more like a C shape.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up.

[Assistant] Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?

[User] You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours.

[Assistant] Six hours from the capital.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up.

[Assistant] Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?

[User] You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours.

[Assistant] Six hours from the capital.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what was the name of the village that you were in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours.

[Assistant] Six hours from the capital.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what was the name of the village that you were in?

[User] Uh, I was in Mount Moorosi, about 1,000 rondavels. It had a high school. It had a couple of churches high on hills that we would hike to one of them. And it had a preschool, had a little tiny main street with two Chinese groceries that competed with one another. And then the little stands of cabbages and apples. Did you need to take a break?

[Assistant] No, I'm fine. Do you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what was the name of the village that you were in?

[User] Uh, I was in Mount Moorosi, about 1,000 rondavels. It had a high school. It had a couple of churches high on hills that we would hike to one of them. And it had a preschool, had a little tiny main street with two Chinese groceries that competed with one another. And then the little stands of cabbages and apples. Did you need to take a break?

[Assistant] No, I'm fine. Do you?

[User] I do.

[Assistant] Let's pause this. [tape break] Okay. We are back. We've taken a short break. Training is finished, you move into your village, which was called Mount Moorosi, and you're given a place to live. Did you have to find your own place to live, or was, uh, did Peace Corps take you to a? How did you arrive? Did Peace Corps drive you into your town in one of their Peace Corps vans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I arrived in a white Peace Corps. What did they call those Jeep like looking things that all the international development people?

[Assistant] Land Rovers?

[User] Land Rovers, yeah. Four wheel drive and bounced off the main road. And I remember being so disappointed that I was living so close to the main road. I knew that it was because they thought I was older and that older people have to be near evacuation routes according to Peace Corps headquarters. Because my colleague, who was Craig, who was to be working with, also working with the Lesotho College of Education, he was far out with a waterfall and.

[Assistant] Oh!

[User] The whole, much more, much more remote setting.

[Assistant] And you had thought that, you had imagined yourself in a remote place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Land Rovers, yeah. Four wheel drive and bounced off the main road. And I remember being so disappointed that I was living so close to the main road. I knew that it was because they thought I was older and that older people have to be near evacuation routes according to Peace Corps headquarters. Because my colleague, who was Craig, who was to be working with, also working with the Lesotho College of Education, he was far out with a waterfall and.

[Assistant] Oh!

[User] The whole, much more, much more remote setting.

[Assistant] And you had thought that, you had imagined yourself in a remote place?

[User] Oh, yeah, I asked to be as far away from, from towns as possible. It was clear that some people were going to have horses and ride into the mountains and have to haul their own water. And but I quickly learned within, within a couple of days that, you know, beyond the town, it was amazingly remote and that I could hike as much as I wanted. And I did have to haul my own water and I didn't have electricity. And, yeah, I quickly quit complaining that, you know, that I needed to be more, more remote.

[Assistant] Uh huh. So Peace Corps takes you there and they would have, uh, they would have already known where your house was going to be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah, I asked to be as far away from, from towns as possible. It was clear that some people were going to have horses and ride into the mountains and have to haul their own water. And but I quickly learned within, within a couple of days that, you know, beyond the town, it was amazingly remote and that I could hike as much as I wanted. And I did have to haul my own water and I didn't have electricity. And, yeah, I quickly quit complaining that, you know, that I needed to be more, more remote.

[Assistant] Uh huh. So Peace Corps takes you there and they would have, uh, they would have already known where your house was going to be?

[User] Yes. There was a woman and I was her third Peace Corps volunteer.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] But they had been over a period of 20 years. So they didn't use her every year. But they thought we would be perfect because we were the same age and she was living alone and I would be a woman living alone. She had four children here and there, and she had been divorced a long time ago.

[Assistant] And we're describing, uh?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. There was a woman and I was her third Peace Corps volunteer.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] But they had been over a period of 20 years. So they didn't use her every year. But they thought we would be perfect because we were the same age and she was living alone and I would be a woman living alone. She had four children here and there, and she had been divorced a long time ago.

[Assistant] And we're describing, uh?

[User] This is Me Ma Bokong was her name. And you're named after, your name changes when you have your first son. So her first son was Bokong. So she became Me, or Madame, M-E was short for madame, probably from the old colonial times. Me Ma Bokong.

[Assistant] Oh, so she's, she's the mother of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is Me Ma Bokong was her name. And you're named after, your name changes when you have your first son. So her first son was Bokong. So she became Me, or Madame, M-E was short for madame, probably from the old colonial times. Me Ma Bokong.

[Assistant] Oh, so she's, she's the mother of.

[User] Of Bokong, the oldest son, right.

[Assistant] How interesting.

[User] Yeah, and funny I never asked her what her name was before that, or if she told me I'd forgotten, forgotten it. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you were to live with her in her home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of Bokong, the oldest son, right.

[Assistant] How interesting.

[User] Yeah, and funny I never asked her what her name was before that, or if she told me I'd forgotten, forgotten it. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you were to live with her in her home?

[User] Yeah, but in Lesotho there, there are like a lot of African villages. There are compounds. And so in the compound that might be, ours was fenced off so that the chickens wouldn't get out. But in the fenced off compound, there was my rondavel, her rondavel. No, my rondavel, her cement house with the tin roof. The chicken coop. A double outhouse, one outhouse for me, and one outhouse for her, carpeted, which I liked a lot. A shed for throwing things like glass bottles. A garden. And, um, yeah, that was about it. And before I came, I don't know whether she had family members staying in the rondavel or whether it had been empty for a while. But I think the previous Peace Corps volunteers had also stayed in that.

[Assistant] In that rondavel.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but in Lesotho there, there are like a lot of African villages. There are compounds. And so in the compound that might be, ours was fenced off so that the chickens wouldn't get out. But in the fenced off compound, there was my rondavel, her rondavel. No, my rondavel, her cement house with the tin roof. The chicken coop. A double outhouse, one outhouse for me, and one outhouse for her, carpeted, which I liked a lot. A shed for throwing things like glass bottles. A garden. And, um, yeah, that was about it. And before I came, I don't know whether she had family members staying in the rondavel or whether it had been empty for a while. But I think the previous Peace Corps volunteers had also stayed in that.

[Assistant] In that rondavel.

[User] But they, maybe one was 20 years ago and one was ten years ago, and she would complain that they didn't keep in touch with her.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms.

[Assistant] Not so complaining.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But they, maybe one was 20 years ago and one was ten years ago, and she would complain that they didn't keep in touch with her.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms.

[Assistant] Not so complaining.

[User] But I learned so much from her.

[Assistant] Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms.

[Assistant] Not so complaining.

[User] But I learned so much from her.

[Assistant] Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside.

[User] Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?

[Assistant] To the wall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I learned so much from her.

[Assistant] Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside.

[User] Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?

[Assistant] To the wall?

[User] Is that about nine feet? So maybe about.

[Assistant] Nine or ten, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?

[Assistant] To the wall?

[User] Is that about nine feet? So maybe about.

[Assistant] Nine or ten, yeah.

[User] About nine feet radius, maybe 18 foot.

[Assistant] Uh, radius or diameter?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About nine feet radius, maybe 18 foot.

[Assistant] Uh, radius or diameter?

[User] Circumference. So it's round.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] Mud on the outside and straw roof and really beautiful cross beams to hold up the straw. And almost like maybe you would think a teepee or something would be. I would wake up in the morning and I would look up at the complex arrangement of cross beams. There are very few people now in Lesotho who to know how to build these traditional roofs. Yeah, and every once in a while they re-mud the outside if cracks, cracks develop and then.

[Assistant] Do you have to put fresh straw up on top?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Circumference. So it's round.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] Mud on the outside and straw roof and really beautiful cross beams to hold up the straw. And almost like maybe you would think a teepee or something would be. I would wake up in the morning and I would look up at the complex arrangement of cross beams. There are very few people now in Lesotho who to know how to build these traditional roofs. Yeah, and every once in a while they re-mud the outside if cracks, cracks develop and then.

[Assistant] Do you have to put fresh straw up on top?

[User] Uh, I think they did, but not in my time. They last a long time. So maybe 20 years or something and then you would re-straw it.

[Assistant] Is there a window?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, I think they did, but not in my time. They last a long time. So maybe 20 years or something and then you would re-straw it.

[Assistant] Is there a window?

[User] There were two windows.

[Assistant] Glass?

[User] One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out.

[Assistant] Oh, you couldn't get out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were two windows.

[Assistant] Glass?

[User] One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out.

[Assistant] Oh, you couldn't get out.

[User] Couldn't get out the windows. But yeah, you could.

[Assistant] And what was the door like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out.

[Assistant] Oh, you couldn't get out.

[User] Couldn't get out the windows. But yeah, you could.

[Assistant] And what was the door like?

[User] It was a wooden door that was really broken down. And at one point, I, I asked my Me Ma Bokong to find a carpenter to fix it because it was locking inadvertently. One time I locked myself in and then I couldn't get out the bar windows. But anyway, so when he fixed it, I realized that I had the same carpentry skills that this man did. And I had no carpentry skills and he had no tools. And I at least had a little hammer and a measuring, measuring tape and a pencil. Three things that he borrowed from me. Anyway, it was a terrible repair, but at least I didn't lock myself in.

[Assistant] So there would have been a wooden door with a wooden frame somehow.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a wooden door that was really broken down. And at one point, I, I asked my Me Ma Bokong to find a carpenter to fix it because it was locking inadvertently. One time I locked myself in and then I couldn't get out the bar windows. But anyway, so when he fixed it, I realized that I had the same carpentry skills that this man did. And I had no carpentry skills and he had no tools. And I at least had a little hammer and a measuring, measuring tape and a pencil. Three things that he borrowed from me. Anyway, it was a terrible repair, but at least I didn't lock myself in.

[Assistant] So there would have been a wooden door with a wooden frame somehow.

[User] Mm hmm, and a wooden frame. So that, and one of those handles that you pushed down on.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm, and a wooden frame. So that, and one of those handles that you pushed down on.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?

[User] Okay, so there was.

[Assistant] It's all one room, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?

[User] Okay, so there was.

[Assistant] It's all one room, right?

[User] Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?

[Assistant] A wardrobe or something?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay, so there was.

[Assistant] It's all one room, right?

[User] Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?

[Assistant] A wardrobe or something?

[User] Yeah, a garde-robe or. That's French. Anyway, you know, a wooden closet had one of those things where my clothes were, and then my bed. And then on another side of the rondavel, all I had my kitchen, which was a little table with two pans for washing dishes. And then I had a little one burner or two burners for a stove, nothing to bake in. I learned to bake in a solar cooker, which another project, NGO project had given to my, to Me Ma Bokong. Learned how to cook bread in that.

[Assistant] And for water you had to draw it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?

[Assistant] A wardrobe or something?

[User] Yeah, a garde-robe or. That's French. Anyway, you know, a wooden closet had one of those things where my clothes were, and then my bed. And then on another side of the rondavel, all I had my kitchen, which was a little table with two pans for washing dishes. And then I had a little one burner or two burners for a stove, nothing to bake in. I learned to bake in a solar cooker, which another project, NGO project had given to my, to Me Ma Bokong. Learned how to cook bread in that.

[Assistant] And for water you had to draw it?

[User] And for water, water was the, it was hilarious. The women got water once a day and they carried it in a big, what is this, a ten gallon bucket on top of their heads.

[Assistant] Oh, my gosh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They learned how to do that when they were little girls. So little girls who were like three or four would carry little kind of one gallon bucket on top of their head and they would balance it perfectly, although you could put a handkerchief or something there. Anyway, I never learned to do it. And the women at the pump used to laugh at me trying. And I, first I couldn't carry a big one and then I couldn't, I went down to a little one and that still splashed all over my glasses and all over my head. And I would always have to have one hand up there balancing it.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] And then sooner or later it would tip over anyway. They thought I was hilarious. They'd never met anyone, you know, who couldn't carry water on their head. It's sort of like, I don't know, like what we would think of someone who doesn't know how to use a pencil or, you know, it's something very basic. But yeah, getting water was tough. It was uphill, excuse me, from the, from the, from the pump. And by my third year there, I wasn't above paying little girls a small amount of money to bring me my water.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I learned how to use, let's see. I used three gallons of water a week.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it used to have so many water and be so rich in water that South Africa created a dam. And South Africa now takes all the water from the dam in South Africa.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And since then, a lot of the rivers have dried up and they don't have good agricultural practices anyway, more of a slash and burn kind of culture. So everywhere you were, you'd be thinking about water.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages.

[Assistant] And how carefully people conserve.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And since then, a lot of the rivers have dried up and they don't have good agricultural practices anyway, more of a slash and burn kind of culture. So everywhere you were, you'd be thinking about water.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages.

[Assistant] And how carefully people conserve.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or.

[Assistant] A long shower. You had your, um.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages.

[Assistant] And how carefully people conserve.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or.

[Assistant] A long shower. You had your, um.

[User] Bathe out of a bucket.

[Assistant] Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or.

[Assistant] A long shower. You had your, um.

[User] Bathe out of a bucket.

[Assistant] Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?

[User] It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry.

[Assistant] You were able to cook for yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bathe out of a bucket.

[Assistant] Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?

[User] It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry.

[Assistant] You were able to cook for yourself?

[User] Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple.

[Assistant] You stayed healthy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry.

[Assistant] You were able to cook for yourself?

[User] Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple.

[Assistant] You stayed healthy?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] The whole three years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple.

[Assistant] You stayed healthy?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] The whole three years?

[User] I lost 20 pounds. I walked miles and miles and miles in a week. I walked all the, I was assigned to 27 schools and I went out to visit the teachers in these 27 schools. That'd take me a long time just to find the school. But to get there, I would be dropped off from the main road by a taxi, so-called taxi, one of those vans stuffed with.

[Assistant] Sure, a collective.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] The whole three years?

[User] I lost 20 pounds. I walked miles and miles and miles in a week. I walked all the, I was assigned to 27 schools and I went out to visit the teachers in these 27 schools. That'd take me a long time just to find the school. But to get there, I would be dropped off from the main road by a taxi, so-called taxi, one of those vans stuffed with.

[Assistant] Sure, a collective.

[User] 21 people instead of 16 people. And then they would all point and say over there, over there, just follow the path.

[Assistant] And then you'd ask again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 21 people instead of 16 people. And then they would all point and say over there, over there, just follow the path.

[Assistant] And then you'd ask again.

[User] I'd follow the path until the path diverged because it was a country of geese, ha, geese. Goats and sheep and cows. And there was, so there were trails, there were no fences, but there were animal trails everywhere. The little boys would, would take care of the, of the family animals, so that, in the mountains that just meant there were so many trails. So most of the time when I was supposed to be finding a school, to find the teacher, to help the teacher, to evaluate her. And these were all teachers enrolled in the college program. I would get lost. So I spent a lot of time lost in Lesotho.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now.

[Assistant] So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd follow the path until the path diverged because it was a country of geese, ha, geese. Goats and sheep and cows. And there was, so there were trails, there were no fences, but there were animal trails everywhere. The little boys would, would take care of the, of the family animals, so that, in the mountains that just meant there were so many trails. So most of the time when I was supposed to be finding a school, to find the teacher, to help the teacher, to evaluate her. And these were all teachers enrolled in the college program. I would get lost. So I spent a lot of time lost in Lesotho.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now.

[Assistant] So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?

[User] I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now.

[Assistant] So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?

[User] I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.

[User] My Me knew where I was, you know, if anyone asked. And she always knew who the principal was. So she would say, oh, give Me so-and-so my best regards, or give her this, you know, plum preserves that I've made or something like that.

[Assistant] Oh, that's very helpful to have at least somebody knew where you were and would have some idea of how to get there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.

[User] My Me knew where I was, you know, if anyone asked. And she always knew who the principal was. So she would say, oh, give Me so-and-so my best regards, or give her this, you know, plum preserves that I've made or something like that.

[Assistant] Oh, that's very helpful to have at least somebody knew where you were and would have some idea of how to get there.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] I'm assuming that these teachers that you visited on these outlying areas did not have telephones. So you could, how did you set up? Did they know you were coming?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] I'm assuming that these teachers that you visited on these outlying areas did not have telephones. So you could, how did you set up? Did they know you were coming?

[User] Yeah, I got really good at using the taxi. Like the, like the, um. What am I going to say? What did they? Like the Pony Express. So the taxis would go from our taxi center to all these outlying towns. So I would go to the taxi center and I would say, what taxi is going to this village? And then the drivers never caught on that they could have asked me for like a dollar a letter or something like that. But I would say, would you give this letter to Me so-and-so and she's at the school teacher and do you know where the school is? Yeah, yeah, I know where the school was. So what they would do is they would pull up near the school and they would then ask one of the passengers, usually the youngest little boy, to run down and give this note to the teacher. And it usually worked.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That, that usually worked. And if I came unannounced, well, that was. They weren't really happy about that. But that did happen sometimes.

[Assistant] That was an ingenious way of letting them know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That, that usually worked. And if I came unannounced, well, that was. They weren't really happy about that. But that did happen sometimes.

[Assistant] That was an ingenious way of letting them know.

[User] Yeah, it was the way everyone else did things. Sometimes I would get notes, you know, like, I'm not going to be there that day, so don't visit me on Tuesday. And I would also see these teachers in the summer and in the, over the Christmas break and over the summer break, they had to be in Maseru at the college.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was the way everyone else did things. Sometimes I would get notes, you know, like, I'm not going to be there that day, so don't visit me on Tuesday. And I would also see these teachers in the summer and in the, over the Christmas break and over the summer break, they had to be in Maseru at the college.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea.

[User] Yeah, so I would visit each of the 27 schools two or three times. Some of the ones more.

[Assistant] And so let's talk about a visit. You'd arrive after having walked for hours and hours.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea.

[User] Yeah, so I would visit each of the 27 schools two or three times. Some of the ones more.

[Assistant] And so let's talk about a visit. You'd arrive after having walked for hours and hours.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And you'd be I imagine you took along a little bit of something to munch on or a little water or something to drink, huh?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was always dressed in my seshoeshoe [also spelled shweshwe], which is the traditional dress, cotton.

[Assistant] Seshoeshoe?

[User] Seshoeshoe, yeah, it's, um. It's left over from kind of colonial dresses. It's either, it's always one of three colors, red or brown or blue. And it's always hand-sewn and usually a skirt and a blouse. And then they do some beautiful white embroidery on it.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere.

[Assistant] So you would wear this dress, which is a.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Seshoeshoe, yeah, it's, um. It's left over from kind of colonial dresses. It's either, it's always one of three colors, red or brown or blue. And it's always hand-sewn and usually a skirt and a blouse. And then they do some beautiful white embroidery on it.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere.

[Assistant] So you would wear this dress, which is a.

[User] Right, seshoeshoe.

[Assistant] Which is what they would wear to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere.

[Assistant] So you would wear this dress, which is a.

[User] Right, seshoeshoe.

[Assistant] Which is what they would wear to.

[User] What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their.

[Assistant] In their high heels?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, seshoeshoe.

[Assistant] Which is what they would wear to.

[User] What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their.

[Assistant] In their high heels?

[User] In their high heels or in their flats or in their, um. Me Ma Bokong had, had, uh. [phone rings] Let me turn this phone off, sorry.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'll pause this. I think we're back on again. We are. So we were talking about the shoes that teachers wore and that your host mother wore too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their.

[Assistant] In their high heels?

[User] In their high heels or in their flats or in their, um. Me Ma Bokong had, had, uh. [phone rings] Let me turn this phone off, sorry.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'll pause this. I think we're back on again. We are. So we were talking about the shoes that teachers wore and that your host mother wore too.

[User] To she wore her house slippers because her, her feet bothered her. And you can imagine her feet bothered her if she'd been wearing high heels to the, to her mountain school all these years. She walked two miles to school and two miles back and never complained about it.

[Assistant] Ah. Image. And so. You'd go to a, you'd walk to the school in your Nike's. You'd get there and what do you find? What's the, the school is an elementary school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To she wore her house slippers because her, her feet bothered her. And you can imagine her feet bothered her if she'd been wearing high heels to the, to her mountain school all these years. She walked two miles to school and two miles back and never complained about it.

[Assistant] Ah. Image. And so. You'd go to a, you'd walk to the school in your Nike's. You'd get there and what do you find? What's the, the school is an elementary school?

[User] Yeah, they were all elementary schools and I would change from my Nike's to my nice, my nice shoes and, uh, and my hair was in a handkerchief, you know, a kerchief.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.

And then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and.

[Assistant] This is when they came into the capital city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they were all elementary schools and I would change from my Nike's to my nice, my nice shoes and, uh, and my hair was in a handkerchief, you know, a kerchief.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.

And then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and.

[Assistant] This is when they came into the capital city?

[User] Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade.

[Assistant] Eight grade, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.

And then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and.

[Assistant] This is when they came into the capital city?

[User] Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade.

[Assistant] Eight grade, yeah.

[User] Eighth grade graduates.

[Assistant] And in their schools they were, how many kids in a classroom? Or would that vary also?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade.

[Assistant] Eight grade, yeah.

[User] Eighth grade graduates.

[Assistant] And in their schools they were, how many kids in a classroom? Or would that vary also?

[User] That would vary. The biggest one that I, I have a picture of a class that had. More than one picture of a class, of a school that had 100 kids, but they had four teachers teaching simultaneously, you know, like maybe 25 kids.

[Assistant] In separate rooms?