[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Oh, there was no danger. I mean, our neighbors protected our camera. I mean, that would have been a year's salary for them, and they knew we had it, you know. Our neighbors would protect us, you know. That wasn't any issue about that.

[Assistant] So it must. Well, it must have been a wrench because here, I mean.

[User] Oh yeah, we were ticked because we really were excited. I mean, we were there long enough to see when Allende came to the poblacione, he promised two things: plastic shoes for the kids so that they could then go to school. Because without shoes and a sort of smock, they weren't allowed to go to school. And dried milk because the kids had been without milk. And I think it was within weeks those kids had those shoes and there were packets of dry milk in that poblacione. I mean, I may be exaggerating, but you know, I remember seeing what he had actually promised. And we were so excited, you know, and to see what the government would do and so on and so forth. But then we were told that we and the fertilizer, we're being pulled out. And I thought, OK, I'm good as shit, but other than that little detail, you know. So we were given the choice. We could have taken a short assignment in Ecuador or Peru, maybe.

[Assistant] But you were then called.

[User] Into Santiago.

[Assistant] And did your original group get together as a group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, we were ticked because we really were excited. I mean, we were there long enough to see when Allende came to the poblacione, he promised two things: plastic shoes for the kids so that they could then go to school. Because without shoes and a sort of smock, they weren't allowed to go to school. And dried milk because the kids had been without milk. And I think it was within weeks those kids had those shoes and there were packets of dry milk in that poblacione. I mean, I may be exaggerating, but you know, I remember seeing what he had actually promised. And we were so excited, you know, and to see what the government would do and so on and so forth. But then we were told that we and the fertilizer, we're being pulled out. And I thought, OK, I'm good as shit, but other than that little detail, you know. So we were given the choice. We could have taken a short assignment in Ecuador or Peru, maybe.

[Assistant] But you were then called.

[User] Into Santiago.

[Assistant] And did your original group get together as a group?

[User] I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks.

[Assistant] But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Into Santiago.

[Assistant] And did your original group get together as a group?

[User] I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks.

[Assistant] But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?

[User] Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was it for the service.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks.

[Assistant] But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?

[User] Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was it for the service.

[User] That was the end, yep.

[Assistant] Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was it for the service.

[User] That was the end, yep.

[Assistant] Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?

[User] Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education.

[Assistant] Right, and under pleasant circumstances.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was the end, yep.

[Assistant] Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?

[User] Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education.

[Assistant] Right, and under pleasant circumstances.

[User] Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education.

[Assistant] Right, and under pleasant circumstances.

[User] Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?

[User] Yes, I did go back. Actually, during that time, I knew that I wanted to go back to graduate school when I left. So I got via mail and thank goodness to my parents cooperation and having left stuff with them. I applied to graduate school and I got into UCLA. So we did end up back in Los Angeles and then having done my architectural thesis on housing after earthquakes, having experienced an earthquake. I then got an Organization of American States fellowship and came back to Chile as part of that, to study the housing that was built in the south after the earthquake. So I, you know, I was.

[Assistant] In the south now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?

[User] Yes, I did go back. Actually, during that time, I knew that I wanted to go back to graduate school when I left. So I got via mail and thank goodness to my parents cooperation and having left stuff with them. I applied to graduate school and I got into UCLA. So we did end up back in Los Angeles and then having done my architectural thesis on housing after earthquakes, having experienced an earthquake. I then got an Organization of American States fellowship and came back to Chile as part of that, to study the housing that was built in the south after the earthquake. So I, you know, I was.

[Assistant] In the south now.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And your Spanish was still intact?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, [but] not very much, because he had a lot of people to talk to after that mission. I guess I don’t remember the beer part.

[Assistant] It was kind of those when you read it it just kind of threw it in, but he did mention how well that you’d handled yourself. I know that you were on the CapCom during the time that he asked the question about the flowers blooming in Houston. Was this a code that you had worked with him regarding whether Ken [Thomas K.] Mattingly [II] had encountered the measles?

[User] You know, I don’t remember who talked to him about that. I hadn’t worked it out with him. It was somebody else. And I, frankly, don’t remember now who reported that to him. Did it say I did?

[Assistant] I believe so, yes.

[User] Well, that was a long time ago.

[Assistant] It was, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don’t remember who talked to him about that. I hadn’t worked it out with him. It was somebody else. And I, frankly, don’t remember now who reported that to him. Did it say I did?

[Assistant] I believe so, yes.

[User] Well, that was a long time ago.

[Assistant] It was, yes.

[User] You forget some of those details. … It was one of the great moments of the space program or great events, bringing those guys back.

[Assistant] And a great team effort. Were you there most of those four or five days continually at the Johnson Space Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that was a long time ago.

[Assistant] It was, yes.

[User] You forget some of those details. … It was one of the great moments of the space program or great events, bringing those guys back.

[Assistant] And a great team effort. Were you there most of those four or five days continually at the Johnson Space Center?

[User] After I got back from the launch at the Cape, why, yes. Like most other astronauts, I was around that whole time taking shift duties, and there were other things going on, too. So I mean, everybody was pitching in any way they could to try to help out. It was, like you say, a great team effort. Mission control just did an outstanding job. [Kranz and other flight directors showed great leadership.]

[Assistant] For a couple of the missions, Apollo 8 and Apollo 15, you were a backup crewmember. Could you tell us what it was like to train as the backup member for the Apollo crews?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I learned a lot, yes. Apollo 13 taught a lot of things, too. That’s one great thing about the space program. … They … log the lessons learned. I remember after every mission I …[kept] notes. When I came in, they had one or two Gemini missions yet to go, and I would just listen with my mouth open and my eyes real wide when John Young would describe a Gemini mission and how the rendezvous worked and … things like that. So it was a great period of learning for those of us in my 1966 group, which was called the Original Nineteen. And that was because everybody talked of the Original Seven, and there were nineteen of us. So we’d thought it would be a funny thing to say, … [we] called [ourselves] the Original Nineteen.

[Assistant] You were selected to be a backup for the command module pilot for Apollo 15.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And so your role changed.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell us about how that did change your life and what duties you had being a backup member.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think when we’re through with assembly of Space Station, somebody should go through all of our [crewed] international missions and … [write down] lessons learned [in] dealing with the Russians.… From our original program in 1975 with them we have had changing circumstances in each [follow-on program] and probably some for the better and some for the worse. The country ought to learn something from this.

[Assistant] Yes, it would be quite a study, wouldn’t it, from twenty-five years and counting of Russian interaction.

[User] Yes, that’s right. We’ve had some outstanding successes. Let me give you an example of a lesson learned…. Seemed to me that when it came to negotiations and things, they didn’t change[-out] people as often as we did. We have a tendency … maybe because of our political process, … [to] throw new people into [negotiations], and they may [be at a] disadvantage.… [The Russians have been better negotiators than we, for example, in defining the partnering arrangement for the International Space Station.]

[Assistant] Well, let me close with this one last question, and I hope it’s not an awkward one for you. You mentioned earlier that you felt that being a commander was a very special time in your life. If you had one lesson that you would like to share with your crew or maybe one point of inspiration that you would like to share with others that you learned from being a commander, what is it that you would like to be remembered for?

[User] Hmm, boy, that’s tough. Well, it’s a great job because you get to apply your technical capabilities, but it’s always a … human relations challenge, too.

[Assistant] Do you have a piece of advice for someone else that would be walking into a commander’s job, on how to succeed in accomplishing so much in such a little bit of the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm, boy, that’s tough. Well, it’s a great job because you get to apply your technical capabilities, but it’s always a … human relations challenge, too.

[Assistant] Do you have a piece of advice for someone else that would be walking into a commander’s job, on how to succeed in accomplishing so much in such a little bit of the time?

[User] You know, it was never [that] much [of a] problem, because [looking back at] all of [my] crews, everyone was so happy to be on a crew. They could have been with their worst enemy and still pulled it off [the mission], you know. So it’s that kind of motivation that’s so important. If the space program can just continue to get such good people and keep them motivated that way, [there] just won’t be much problem. I guess I don’t have any real special thing to say. Just like any other job, you [have] opportunities to plan, [then] everything changes and you …[do the job]day by day the best you can.

[Assistant] And look back and learn those lessons and continue to go. Well, we wish you the best in all of your new plans and all those projects that you’re working on, and hope again we’ll be able to sit down at some point and talk about other accomplishments in those.

[User] Yes, well, I hope [that] NASA can have a lot of accomplishments in the future. You know, going back to 1958, [NASA’S] record [is] just astounding. It can continue or not. I hope it continues. If it doesn’t, why, it would be a little bit sad.

[Assistant] It would be. Well, we thank you again for spending the afternoon with us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] CASIS we should probably do at another session.

[Assistant] We can probably save that for the next time. If you had to describe your job to somebody and what you do, is there anything else that we haven’t talked about just in the last few minutes, how you would describe your position? Maybe someone that wasn’t even involved with NASA, and you had to tell them, this is what I do. Or if you had to give a talk to somebody that wasn’t involved.

[User] If I meet someone on the airplane, I’m going to give them the one-sentence version of what I do. They don’t want to hear the triangle thing I just told you, right? Which is what I think I really do. But what I usually tell them is, I am the person that’s representing all the scientists in this huge engineering org, both to keep the scientists from going a little nuts and doing things they shouldn’t do, but also to make sure the program understands and serves them.

[Assistant] And you also deal with science representatives from all the international partners too, don’t you?

[User] Right, right. I have a counterpart, and that’s—one thing I’m really proud of that I’ve done was creating the Program Science Forum of all my counterparts, which didn’t exist before in that way. That’s something we might want to talk about in the future too.

[Assistant] I actually have that on my list. So I think for today, so we don’t keep you running too fast down the freeway, we can stop for today. But we appreciate it, thank you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When you were asking about the effect of having women in the office, the thing that I remember the best was the whole first name business, which we talked about before. It was clear that at that time none of the women were pilots, and so they were all in the same category as the rest of us nonpilots and also nonmilitary. At the time the office was completely run by pilots, as it always had been. That’s changed over the years. We got to the point where we had a woman as deputy chief of the Astronaut Office and now I guess we’re going to have the first woman who’s actually chief of the Astronaut Office, right?

[Assistant] Oh, is there? Who is that?

[User] Oh, what’s her name, who was up on the Space Station twice now.

[Assistant] Peggy?

[User] Peggy [A.] Whitson. At least I heard that. I can’t swear that that’s the truth but that’s what I heard. Kent [V.] Rominger was going to go and—was it Kent? Who was doing it? Who’s the current chief?

[Assistant] I think it is [Steven W. Lindsey] and then he got appointed to the final flight.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, what’s her name, who was up on the Space Station twice now.

[Assistant] Peggy?

[User] Peggy [A.] Whitson. At least I heard that. I can’t swear that that’s the truth but that’s what I heard. Kent [V.] Rominger was going to go and—was it Kent? Who was doing it? Who’s the current chief?

[Assistant] I think it is [Steven W. Lindsey] and then he got appointed to the final flight.

[User] He assigned himself to be on the final flight, which is a nice deal. He has to leave in order to go train for that. I must have read it somewhere that Peggy is going to take over as chief. It’s been a progression from here to there over many years to the point where you have essentially a woman scientist as chief of the Astronaut Office. Al [Alan B.] Shepard would probably turn over in his grave, but that’s the way it is.

[Assistant] I thought it was interesting. A lot of people had some very interesting questions for me, one of which I think I sent to you. Did any of the women from that class approach things and say, “Well, I’m a woman and this is the kind of approach that I would use”? I never got that sense from the women I’ve talked to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I certainly never saw anybody putting on lipstick. Earrings, yes, they wore earrings. There was a problem with hair at the beginning, because some of the women had pretty long hair. When they realized that the hair is out like this [demonstrates], it’s not only an inconvenience to the other crew. If everybody’s trying to get a view out the window and somebody’s hair is sticking out like this, then it could be a safety hazard. I know there was an incident where Judy [Judith A.] Resnik’s hair got caught in the IMAX camera. It then became a requirement to keep your hair either pulled back or put in a net, except for pictures, [where you could let] your hair out. Other than that you have to keep it under control.

[Assistant] What did you think about that quote from Sally [K. Ride] about coming in and becoming one of those first professional women?

[User] Let me read it again.

[Assistant] About how it was a very different climate, that they didn’t really know how to work with women. That’s still an experience today. I was curious, from your perspective.

[User] Well, a cultural adjustment in some cases is still going on. I think it’s because NASA as an agency was [mostly] engineers. Forty years ago there were far fewer women engineers or pilots, and there were even fewer women test pilots. It was a masculine culture. It was basically white men who put us on the Moon. That changed as American culture changed, it just evolved.\n\n The same thing was true in the Flight Director’s Office. It was a long time before there were women flight directors. You need a certain personality, a certain forcefulness. Those were not qualities which traditionally had been encouraged among women, but times have changed and so now there [are] women flight directors just like there [are] women Shuttle commanders and so on.

[Assistant] Somebody also asked an interesting question about whether or not American culture forced NASA to accept women into the corps and flight directors.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let me read it again.

[Assistant] About how it was a very different climate, that they didn’t really know how to work with women. That’s still an experience today. I was curious, from your perspective.

[User] Well, a cultural adjustment in some cases is still going on. I think it’s because NASA as an agency was [mostly] engineers. Forty years ago there were far fewer women engineers or pilots, and there were even fewer women test pilots. It was a masculine culture. It was basically white men who put us on the Moon. That changed as American culture changed, it just evolved.\n\n The same thing was true in the Flight Director’s Office. It was a long time before there were women flight directors. You need a certain personality, a certain forcefulness. Those were not qualities which traditionally had been encouraged among women, but times have changed and so now there [are] women flight directors just like there [are] women Shuttle commanders and so on.

[Assistant] Somebody also asked an interesting question about whether or not American culture forced NASA to accept women into the corps and flight directors.

[User] Oh, I’m sure that’s true, absolutely. There’s no question. That’s why when the Shuttle was designed it had to be designed to accept 95% of the American population, up to the 95th percentile tall six-foot-four northern [European] American male down to the fifth percentile five-foot Asian-American female. That’s all-inclusive. The Russians never had to do that, which is why their Soyuz didn’t fit two thirds of the US astronaut corps when we first started flying with the Russians. I had volunteered to go up on Mir. They were having trouble finding volunteers at the beginning. Norm [Norman E.] Thagard had volunteered to do it but not a whole lot of people wanted to go over and live in Russia and fly on the Mir. Then I found out I was too tall, much to my wife’s relief. But that’s another story.

[Assistant] Well, that would be an interesting story when we get to that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Anyway, yes. They never had the push. There was no question. We knew. I was in the first selection of Shuttle astronauts. Nobody knew whether there [were] any quotas or requirements. I’m sure there are stories of what went on up in [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC]. We know that the selection at JSC then had to go up to Headquarters. We were supposed to hear the results in the middle of December, and we didn’t hear.\n\n There was all sorts of speculation that they didn’t have the right mix of people. I have no idea what really happened. Everybody knew there was going to be women and ethnic minorities. They had so many qualified people. It’s not like they had to sacrifice anything to find qualified people. All the people who came in were highly qualified, as much as the white men. So I think it was a good thing all around. There’s no question that was driven politically. Organizations generally don’t change themselves in that way.

[Assistant] I thought we would start out—unless there was something that we had missed on your first flight [STS 51-D].

[User] No, I enjoyed reading it over. One thing I wanted to ask by the way. You sent me a copy of the audio along with the transcript. It’d be nice to get also the electronic version of the transcript; if you could send me the one from that and when you do this.

[Assistant] Oh sure. I’d be happy to send it to you.

[User] I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file.

[Assistant] Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I enjoyed reading it over. One thing I wanted to ask by the way. You sent me a copy of the audio along with the transcript. It’d be nice to get also the electronic version of the transcript; if you could send me the one from that and when you do this.

[Assistant] Oh sure. I’d be happy to send it to you.

[User] I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file.

[Assistant] Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email.

[User] Yes. It was a pretty long document.

[Assistant] Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file.

[Assistant] Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email.

[User] Yes. It was a pretty long document.

[Assistant] Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office.

[User] Yes. Obviously you have it in electronic form, so yes, that would be nice. I think having read through that I was quite pleased. That’s why I say for me it brought back a lot of nice memories. It was a nice record of the flights. I gave it to my sons to look at. “Do you remember when I was doing this?” Of course for them it was nice. When I did my first flight they were what, five and nine years old. They didn’t remember a lot of it.

[Assistant] Sure. Yes, they probably weren’t exactly sure what was going on at that point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. It was a pretty long document.

[Assistant] Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office.

[User] Yes. Obviously you have it in electronic form, so yes, that would be nice. I think having read through that I was quite pleased. That’s why I say for me it brought back a lot of nice memories. It was a nice record of the flights. I gave it to my sons to look at. “Do you remember when I was doing this?” Of course for them it was nice. When I did my first flight they were what, five and nine years old. They didn’t remember a lot of it.

[Assistant] Sure. Yes, they probably weren’t exactly sure what was going on at that point.

[User] I guess the only thing that I’ll mention—they reminded me of this when I showed it to them. When we got back, there had been some problems. I guess in the previous flight a lot of people are kind of unsteady on their feet. I guess it was Ron [Ronald E.] McNair had two little kids. He’d been on a flight a couple flights before me. After [landing], his kids ran up to jump on him and knocked him over.\n\n All of our kids got a big lecture. “You must not run and jump on your daddy.” So what is the first thing that my kids did? They ran up and jumped on me, but I didn’t fall down. They remembered that.

[Assistant] That’s too funny. You gathered all the kids together from the crew and told them all together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Obviously we didn’t go back to the simulator after that. Everybody was in shock.

[Assistant] Did you go to the office and congregate together?

[User] Yes. Then the people who were running the office, they were trying to think, “What do we do now?” I went back to the simulator office, and I got all their personal belongings out of [their area], because as prime crew they have a special area. I didn’t want people going, taking their nameplates and little books and stuff.\n\n Eventually they assigned people, an astronaut, to work with each of the families, which they now call the CACOs, the casualty assistant [case] officer I think, if I remember, to help them with the government paperwork and all sorts of things. I experienced that actually closer up when Dave [S. David] Griggs got killed in an airplane accident, not Shuttle-related, since they were our close neighbors. Don [Donald E.] Williams, who was his pilot, was actually the official CACO. Because we were such close friends with the family, we helped out a lot with funeral arrangements and just helping with the kids. That was tough.

[Assistant] When did that happen? Was that before or after Challenger?

[User] That would have been after, around ’88, something around that time. He was flying an airplane in an air show. Dave was one of the best pilots. Sometimes your number just comes up. He was flying an old World War II Navy airplane and did an aileron roll. He was not familiar with the plane, I guess. He was too close to the ground, caught a wingtip, and just like that. Like I say, he was one of the best pilots in the corps, there’s no question. Everybody respected him for that. It was a real shock.

[Assistant] What sort of impact does that have on the Astronaut Office itself? You lost seven members of the Astronaut Office, and then you lose another member later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Would you tell us or share with us what you learned from the ASTRO mission scientifically?

[User] Boy, it’s been a long time. We’ve learned so much since then from Hubble. It was an ultraviolet telescope. At the time, it was able to make some kinds of observation with greater accuracy and precision than the Hubble instrumentation at the time could do, particularly given that the Hubble optics were not working properly. I think they took advantage of that even for the second flight of ASTRO, after we had fixed Hubble. It had capabilities in the far ultraviolet that Hubble at the time didn’t have. I remember there was one example where they were looking for—I guess they were able to determine cosmic helium abundance with a greater precision. As I say, there have been so many astronomical discoveries since that it all blurs.\n\n I suppose had I not been assigned to another flight, I had been invited to go, “Why don’t you come spend some time while we’re working with the data?” That would have been fun, but I was hard at work on the tethered satellite right after ASTRO finished so I never really had much of a chance to get involved in the data reduction. Yes, I saw the results as they came out, but it’s all blended into a continuum with Hubble results and the results from ASTRO-2.\n\n They did a lot of basically determination of chemical abundances and the physical conditions which you can see with far ultraviolet light more clearly than we could see previously.

[Assistant] Any other anecdotes from that flight?

[User] Didn’t I give you enough?

[Assistant] Sure, but we always ask.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Boy, it’s been a long time. We’ve learned so much since then from Hubble. It was an ultraviolet telescope. At the time, it was able to make some kinds of observation with greater accuracy and precision than the Hubble instrumentation at the time could do, particularly given that the Hubble optics were not working properly. I think they took advantage of that even for the second flight of ASTRO, after we had fixed Hubble. It had capabilities in the far ultraviolet that Hubble at the time didn’t have. I remember there was one example where they were looking for—I guess they were able to determine cosmic helium abundance with a greater precision. As I say, there have been so many astronomical discoveries since that it all blurs.\n\n I suppose had I not been assigned to another flight, I had been invited to go, “Why don’t you come spend some time while we’re working with the data?” That would have been fun, but I was hard at work on the tethered satellite right after ASTRO finished so I never really had much of a chance to get involved in the data reduction. Yes, I saw the results as they came out, but it’s all blended into a continuum with Hubble results and the results from ASTRO-2.\n\n They did a lot of basically determination of chemical abundances and the physical conditions which you can see with far ultraviolet light more clearly than we could see previously.

[Assistant] Any other anecdotes from that flight?

[User] Didn’t I give you enough?

[Assistant] Sure, but we always ask.

[User] I don’t know.

[Assistant] I think you were the first astronaut to wear a tie in space. You had mentioned the tie.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is Louise Liller. What else should I say?

[Assistant] Where you served?

[User] I served in El Salvador in 2006 to 2008, and then I did a Peace Corps Response in 2009. I don't know if we're going to talk about that.

[Assistant] We can. Yeah. So why did you join the Peace Corps?

[User] I should have known this question was coming. I don't know. At the time, um. So I joined the Peace Corps. I started the Peace Corps when I was 30 and at the time I was doing social work. I was in the social work field in Austin, Texas, and I had a job that was sort of stressful and it was good. I liked it, but I knew I wanted to do something different. And like every day when I got ready for work in the morning, I had this like, note, this paper stuck in my closet. And it said, like, have a baby, buy a house, and move to another country and learn Spanish. And so those things were just like every day I saw that those are my goals and things that I knew I wanted to do. And so obviously I went in one direction, which was to move to another country and learn Spanish. And so that was kind of, it was in my head and I knew I was ready to do something different.

[Assistant] So out of all those other choices you could have done, teaching abroad, or you know, just traveling abroad, why the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I served in El Salvador in 2006 to 2008, and then I did a Peace Corps Response in 2009. I don't know if we're going to talk about that.

[Assistant] We can. Yeah. So why did you join the Peace Corps?

[User] I should have known this question was coming. I don't know. At the time, um. So I joined the Peace Corps. I started the Peace Corps when I was 30 and at the time I was doing social work. I was in the social work field in Austin, Texas, and I had a job that was sort of stressful and it was good. I liked it, but I knew I wanted to do something different. And like every day when I got ready for work in the morning, I had this like, note, this paper stuck in my closet. And it said, like, have a baby, buy a house, and move to another country and learn Spanish. And so those things were just like every day I saw that those are my goals and things that I knew I wanted to do. And so obviously I went in one direction, which was to move to another country and learn Spanish. And so that was kind of, it was in my head and I knew I was ready to do something different.

[Assistant] So out of all those other choices you could have done, teaching abroad, or you know, just traveling abroad, why the Peace Corps?

[User] I really have done a lot of different service and that was sort of important to me. So I had been an AmeriCorps volunteer here in Austin and also I had just a feeling of wanting to give back. And Peace Corps seemed like, uh, like I had looked into Jesuit Volunteer Corps a little bit too. But Peace Corps I think just seemed like a more, like it offered some structure I think. And also the time was like it was, being there for a longer amount of time was something that was appealing. I knew I didn't just want to go somewhere for a couple months.

[Assistant] That's good. So what was life like before joining the Peace Corps? Work, social, whatever you feel like talking about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really have done a lot of different service and that was sort of important to me. So I had been an AmeriCorps volunteer here in Austin and also I had just a feeling of wanting to give back. And Peace Corps seemed like, uh, like I had looked into Jesuit Volunteer Corps a little bit too. But Peace Corps I think just seemed like a more, like it offered some structure I think. And also the time was like it was, being there for a longer amount of time was something that was appealing. I knew I didn't just want to go somewhere for a couple months.

[Assistant] That's good. So what was life like before joining the Peace Corps? Work, social, whatever you feel like talking about?

[User] Mm hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, I was. Yeah, I mean, I worked a lot and you know, like I said, like my job was kind of a little bit stressful at the time. And I liked it though. There were lots of things I liked about it. I had finished, sort of recently finished a graduate program in sustainability. But then I was living in a city too. So that may have been another reason why I kind of wanted to get out and be in a more rural environment again.

[Assistant] OK. Did you get to pick your country?

[User] No. Yeah, no.

[Assistant] You just applied.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, I was. Yeah, I mean, I worked a lot and you know, like I said, like my job was kind of a little bit stressful at the time. And I liked it though. There were lots of things I liked about it. I had finished, sort of recently finished a graduate program in sustainability. But then I was living in a city too. So that may have been another reason why I kind of wanted to get out and be in a more rural environment again.

[Assistant] OK. Did you get to pick your country?

[User] No. Yeah, no.

[Assistant] You just applied.

[User] I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah.

[Assistant] Can you describe the application process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Yeah, no.

[Assistant] You just applied.

[User] I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah.

[Assistant] Can you describe the application process?

[User] Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt.

[Assistant] For the application?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah.

[Assistant] Can you describe the application process?

[User] Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt.

[Assistant] For the application?

[User] For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt.

[Assistant] For the application?

[User] For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?

[User] Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect.

[Assistant] How did your family feel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?

[User] Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect.

[Assistant] How did your family feel?

[User] Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either.

[Assistant] Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect.

[Assistant] How did your family feel?

[User] Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either.

[Assistant] Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?

[User] Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either.

[Assistant] Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?

[User] Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?

[User] Like before leaving?

[Assistant] Before leaving, yes, let's start there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?

[User] Like before leaving?

[Assistant] Before leaving, yes, let's start there.

[User] I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life.

[Assistant] Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like before leaving?

[Assistant] Before leaving, yes, let's start there.

[User] I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life.

[Assistant] Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So you just packed whatever you thought you needed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life.

[Assistant] Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So you just packed whatever you thought you needed.

[User] I feel like they, like, sent out a list or something, and I followed it. And then I was like, why did this person say this? Like, that's crazy. Like when they said, don't take hiking boots. And I was like, don't? And I didn't. And then I was like, of course I need hiking boots, I was doing agricultural work. Anyway.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK. So how is, what kind of technical training or training did you get while you're in country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. The technical training part. Actually, I'm going to take a step back before I get, am I just allowed to interrupt?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] OK, so I was nervous about going and I wasn't really sure still. And it was like the day before. What do you call it when you all meet in D.C. before you leave?

[Assistant] Staging.

[User] Staging. So I went and I stayed at a friend's house in Virginia and like she drove me to staging whatever it was like at a hotel or something. And like, it was probably 10:30 in the morning or something.

[Assistant] What city was this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And so that happened. And then I was like, OK, like, I'm supposed to go.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Like clearly I'm supposed to go to the Peace Corps, like I'm supposed to do this thing. So I was still kind of like feeling like, am I really making the right decision? But then that was like, OK.

[Assistant] Clearer.

[User]
Yeah, totally. I mean, it was amazing. It was just, it was crazy. So that was a really good thing. So then we got to country, in country, and the training that we received, you know. So like I remember doing like one of the things I remember really specifically for some reason is like they had a like a level, like a nivel that they called it, like this like level that you would use when you're doing planting. I have no idea why that's like the one super thing that sticks in my mind. And like tree grafting, which I'd done some tree grafting. I went to graduate school in Pennsylvania, but like, different. So like citrus, you know, so it was like interesting to kind of learn some sort of techniques.

And then a lot of like our training too was about sort of like meeting facilitation. And so some things I still use are actually like some of the community, like doing community mapping and like this way of doing community decision making. Like I still use those now.

[Assistant] That's currently impacting your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like clearly I'm supposed to go to the Peace Corps, like I'm supposed to do this thing. So I was still kind of like feeling like, am I really making the right decision? But then that was like, OK.

[Assistant] Clearer.

[User]
Yeah, totally. I mean, it was amazing. It was just, it was crazy. So that was a really good thing. So then we got to country, in country, and the training that we received, you know. So like I remember doing like one of the things I remember really specifically for some reason is like they had a like a level, like a nivel that they called it, like this like level that you would use when you're doing planting. I have no idea why that's like the one super thing that sticks in my mind. And like tree grafting, which I'd done some tree grafting. I went to graduate school in Pennsylvania, but like, different. So like citrus, you know, so it was like interesting to kind of learn some sort of techniques.

And then a lot of like our training too was about sort of like meeting facilitation. And so some things I still use are actually like some of the community, like doing community mapping and like this way of doing community decision making. Like I still use those now.

[Assistant] That's currently impacting your job?

[User] Yeah, totally. I mean, those are good skills. These are great skills to use with people. So things like that I think were really good. And then some of the technical stuff, I mean, it was really interesting. Like, I had studied agriculture and so like going and seeing some different, you know, like those were it was pretty fun to kind of see it in another country. But my Spanish wasn't good when I got there. I mean, it's still not great. But so I mean, that was also just like a big part of it was just sort of being, like learning Spanish was like a big part of the beginning of my service for sure.

[Assistant] What was that part like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, it was good. So like we had training where I don't remember how long it was, a couple of months. So like, I had a host family for training. That was actually a really sweet part of my service, and I stayed in touch with my host family for, I mean, I guess I'm still in touch with them, you know. My host mom has passed but her children. And it was nice. I mean, they like had other Peace Corps volunteers before and kind of knew the drill and are just, like, very welcoming.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So it was super sweet. And then there was also sort of a nice little community where we'd be doing some things still with other volunteers. And so it felt like, you know, like I felt like part of that community and then.

[Assistant] Had support.

[User] Like it was kind of both. Yeah. So that was good.

[Assistant] Did you have any in-class language training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like it was kind of both. Yeah. So that was good.

[Assistant] Did you have any in-class language training?

[User] We had training. And so there were like four of us, I think, and then we would meet in our like host community with an instructor. And that was also, those were good classes. And then it was like one of the things I remember most, though, was like El Salvador has had several earthquakes. And that was my first time living in an area that was earthquake prone. And there was like a tremor, I guess. And like our teacher, she just shot outside because she had lived through earthquakes before and like, we were all just sitting there like, what are we doing? It's interesting because part of my job now is like emergency response and like the psychology behind it. And how do you have people make others, you know what I mean? But I think about that moment a lot. It was like she was just like, she felt like she did not hesitate. She didn't gather anything, you know what I mean? She was just like, get outside. And so that's in.

[Assistant] Cultural differences.

[User] Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had training. And so there were like four of us, I think, and then we would meet in our like host community with an instructor. And that was also, those were good classes. And then it was like one of the things I remember most, though, was like El Salvador has had several earthquakes. And that was my first time living in an area that was earthquake prone. And there was like a tremor, I guess. And like our teacher, she just shot outside because she had lived through earthquakes before and like, we were all just sitting there like, what are we doing? It's interesting because part of my job now is like emergency response and like the psychology behind it. And how do you have people make others, you know what I mean? But I think about that moment a lot. It was like she was just like, she felt like she did not hesitate. She didn't gather anything, you know what I mean? She was just like, get outside. And so that's in.

[Assistant] Cultural differences.

[User] Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?

[User] So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um.

[Assistant] It was always the theme of the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?

[User] So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um.

[Assistant] It was always the theme of the?

[User] Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme.

[Assistant] It was a theme that was there. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um.

[Assistant] It was always the theme of the?

[User] Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme.

[Assistant] It was a theme that was there. Yeah.

[User] Yeah, for sure.

[Assistant] Could have been strength, could have been a weakness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme.

[Assistant] It was a theme that was there. Yeah.

[User] Yeah, for sure.

[Assistant] Could have been strength, could have been a weakness.

[User] Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?

[Assistant] Awareness. Hyper awareness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, for sure.

[Assistant] Could have been strength, could have been a weakness.

[User] Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?

[Assistant] Awareness. Hyper awareness.

[User] Hyper awareness I think, hyper awareness for sure. I don't know, you know, it was interesting, but definitely that was something that was perhaps something that also like pretty distinctive that I remember.

[Assistant] So where did you get placed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?

[Assistant] Awareness. Hyper awareness.

[User] Hyper awareness I think, hyper awareness for sure. I don't know, you know, it was interesting, but definitely that was something that was perhaps something that also like pretty distinctive that I remember.

[Assistant] So where did you get placed?

[User] So I was placed in the eastern part of the country in Morazán.

[Assistant] What's that region like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was placed in the eastern part of the country in Morazán.

[Assistant] What's that region like?

[User] It's mountainous. It's beautiful, beautiful mountains. Where I was at the time was pretty, not super rural. I mean, there was a dirt road like through town, but yeah, pretty rural. So not close to a highway. I was. Which I know like other like Peace Corps volunteers in Africa would be like, you know, I was probably like five and a half hours from the capital or something, you know, which like volunteers were like, it's nothing. But like in a tiny country like El Salvador, where there were people that could be there in 45 minutes, you know, like it felt like I had this like long.

[Assistant] Long journey.

[User] Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really.

[Assistant] Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's mountainous. It's beautiful, beautiful mountains. Where I was at the time was pretty, not super rural. I mean, there was a dirt road like through town, but yeah, pretty rural. So not close to a highway. I was. Which I know like other like Peace Corps volunteers in Africa would be like, you know, I was probably like five and a half hours from the capital or something, you know, which like volunteers were like, it's nothing. But like in a tiny country like El Salvador, where there were people that could be there in 45 minutes, you know, like it felt like I had this like long.

[Assistant] Long journey.

[User] Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really.

[Assistant] Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?

[User] So we didn't have a site visit. I don't, like I think I just showed up.

[Assistant] Just showed up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really.

[Assistant] Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?

[User] So we didn't have a site visit. I don't, like I think I just showed up.

[Assistant] Just showed up.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Was that like? Like the journey and then seeing the town that you were in? Can you describe that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. There was a huge dead cow.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So the family that I was staying with, like they were like the butchers for the whole area. And so like walking out and seeing this like in process, like pretty intense, you know? And I walked, you know, and I was just like, it's the first thing in the morning, you know what I mean? And I like turned and like I walked into this other door and this sweet little host mom, she like held up the leg, you know, of the cow. And like she had just like juices like dripping off her arm. And she just shook it at me and she said, I'm going to make you a delicious soup with this. I'm like, uh. And I was just like, OK, you know, and I just went out to the outhouse, like to the latrine, and I just sat down and I was like, oh my god. Like, all right, I'm in it now. And so.

[Assistant] That was the moment when you knew you're.

[User] Yeah, shit just got real. Yeah. And I mean, and it's really sweet, like, sopa de pata is like a special, you know. But like for me, like that wasn't like, you know, it's a hard thing to kind of like wake up to and just in general.

[Assistant] What was your host family like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, shit just got real. Yeah. And I mean, and it's really sweet, like, sopa de pata is like a special, you know. But like for me, like that wasn't like, you know, it's a hard thing to kind of like wake up to and just in general.

[Assistant] What was your host family like?

[User] They were like super religious Evangelical Christians.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I didn't know this at the time. And so like, there was a lot going on like I said. So like, I'm there and I'm sharing a room with these two women who are like, not maybe my age or a little bit younger or maybe, I don't know, you know. They are adult women, you know? Anyway, I mean, it turns out that one of these women had just found out she was pregnant and not, you know, so she's not married and then she's pregnant. And so, but they're not telling me, like, I'm finding out all of this later. There's a lot of stress in the house going on, right? So I did not arrive at a good time for this family. And so, yeah, so then like at one point, they were like, oh, there's going to be a wedding. And I remember like, oh, like, I mean it was like in the capital and I got like a wedding present or something, you know. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? I was all.

[Assistant] What did you get?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were like super religious Evangelical Christians.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I didn't know this at the time. And so like, there was a lot going on like I said. So like, I'm there and I'm sharing a room with these two women who are like, not maybe my age or a little bit younger or maybe, I don't know, you know. They are adult women, you know? Anyway, I mean, it turns out that one of these women had just found out she was pregnant and not, you know, so she's not married and then she's pregnant. And so, but they're not telling me, like, I'm finding out all of this later. There's a lot of stress in the house going on, right? So I did not arrive at a good time for this family. And so, yeah, so then like at one point, they were like, oh, there's going to be a wedding. And I remember like, oh, like, I mean it was like in the capital and I got like a wedding present or something, you know. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? I was all.

[Assistant] What did you get?

[User] Something like super bizarre, but it was like, who knows what? Like something that you would give as a wedding present here, like a crystal something? You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know what you know, but it just seemed like I should do this thing. There's going to be a wedding. I didn't know she was pregnant, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden there was like no talk of the wedding. And so then the wedding's off, you know, and I'm just like, I have no, you know, like, nobody's like confiding in me.

[Assistant] You found out later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Something like super bizarre, but it was like, who knows what? Like something that you would give as a wedding present here, like a crystal something? You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know what you know, but it just seemed like I should do this thing. There's going to be a wedding. I didn't know she was pregnant, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden there was like no talk of the wedding. And so then the wedding's off, you know, and I'm just like, I have no, you know, like, nobody's like confiding in me.

[Assistant] You found out later.

[User] Later, I find out. Yeah, and so like, she was pregnant, and then he had also gotten someone else pregnant at the same time. You know, I mean, there was all this drama that's going on. And they're super religious, you know. And it was like, it was just, I'm sure a very intense time for their family. And then I show up and, you know, I'm like, yeah, like, not. Anyway.

[Assistant] How did you deal with that?

[User] It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't.

[Assistant] That wasn't the program.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Later, I find out. Yeah, and so like, she was pregnant, and then he had also gotten someone else pregnant at the same time. You know, I mean, there was all this drama that's going on. And they're super religious, you know. And it was like, it was just, I'm sure a very intense time for their family. And then I show up and, you know, I'm like, yeah, like, not. Anyway.

[Assistant] How did you deal with that?

[User] It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't.

[Assistant] That wasn't the program.

[User] That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way.

[Assistant] Who was your partner at site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't.

[Assistant] That wasn't the program.

[User] That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way.

[Assistant] Who was your partner at site?

[User] No, we didn't have partners.

[Assistant] At the time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way.

[Assistant] Who was your partner at site?

[User] No, we didn't have partners.

[Assistant] At the time.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How did, I guess, Peace Corps staff deal with this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How did, I guess, Peace Corps staff deal with this?

[User] So I reached out to Rolando, who was our program person.

[Assistant] Director? Manager?

[User] Yeah. And at some point, I think he did come out and make a site visit, you know? But I mean, essentially, he was just like, make it work. And I didn't know how to do that.

[Assistant] Was it like that for other volunteers? Or they go to a site and they figured it out on their own?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I think, yeah, like I think that there definitely, you know, I think that's right. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's a fair thing. You know what I mean, to try to. But like, I didn't really have a, like I think that works. But if you have someone that's sort of an ambassador kind of between, you know, to kind of help. And so I mean, I didn't. Like I think they wanted this teacher to kind of be that person for me.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I didn't want to be at the school full time. And then she had a full-time job and she wasn't interested in doing.

[Assistant] Secondary projects?

[User] Agricultural work or, you know, I mean, like, that wasn't her thing at all. And so it wasn't, it just, like things weren't clicking. And again, like my Spanish wasn't great and like. So it was just weird. It was weird and hard and I, like it was hard to reach out to Rolando and not like, you know. I just didn't know what to do, you know? And so like, I don't even know all the timelines for everything. And I'm just like, how do I even spend my days? Like it feels kind of weird to think about it, you know?

[Assistant] That's the next question. How did you spend your work? How did you spend your workday and leisure day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And so I mean, I know, like at some point I was just like, I'm going to just go house to house, you know, and that's kind of what I did at some point. And just kind of was like trying to, you know, meet people and figure things out.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And there were some, you know, nice families that, like that was good. So eventually, eventually I moved into another family's house where. That was part of it too. I think even initially, like with Rolando, I was like, this living situation is just too much. Like the family didn't want me there. Sharing a room. There was a lot of other stuff going on that I just didn't understand. I didn't have any privacy. I didn't feel comfortable there, you know. And it was like, you know, like there wasn't, like I couldn't. I didn't even feel like I could just go cook my own food, you know. Like it was this very strange thing where they didn't want me. So then I was like being served. I mean, it was just weird. The whole thing was weird. And then I, like so, but like he or they or somehow like there wasn't a house or they just didn't like nobody wanted me to live on my own, which I mean like that kind of makes sense I guess.

[Assistant] This is the family and Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how. I mean, I think the family was fine with me leaving, you know, but there wasn't like, yeah, it just wasn't working. And so then I ended up moving into this other family's house, and that was kind of better, but I was still like sharing a room.

[Assistant] What did this family do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how. I mean, I think the family was fine with me leaving, you know, but there wasn't like, yeah, it just wasn't working. And so then I ended up moving into this other family's house, and that was kind of better, but I was still like sharing a room.

[Assistant] What did this family do?

[User] So the mom. She wasn't the mom, she was the aunt. So it was the aunt. She was a farmer. So I liked that. And then her nephew was the mayor. So he. And then they had another nephew that was there that had been deported from the States. So he.

[Assistant] Knew English?

[User] Knew English, but he didn't know what he was doing with his life at all. And like at some point, he like maybe had never graduated high school and like he went back to high school. And it was also very weird because he was probably in his twenties, you know what I mean? And then he's like, which is something that's very common too, you know. But that worked out for a while, you know, but again, like, there was no privacy. I definitely was like, the kitchen wasn't, you know what I mean? It was like, it was just like, it was just a hard living situation. And then at some point, like a house, somebody told me about a house or something, and then I had a house, you know. And then it was like my life just was like, everything just kind of changed where I like didn't have to be on like, you know, and I mean, like never being able to just turn off, I think, was exhausting.

[Assistant] Yes, you get to relax.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know, there are probably 20 people. I mean, it was a good size, yeah, like people came to, you know what I mean? I think they wanted to meet me. It was weird, you know? And then, yeah. And so then like I started kind of going out like with some of the farmers a little bit more, which is like more of what I've been doing and or wanted to do, you know? And then that was how like I was with Rosa, and that was eventually how I ended up moving in with her because she.

[Assistant] The third house?

[User]
That was the second house. Yeah. And then so I would go out and like, work with her sometimes and then somehow, like she had this other family member. Oh I can't believe I can't remember his name. He was so sweet and amazing. But I would work with him. And then, um, so like doing sort of like just kind of getting the lay of the land it felt like took a long time. And then, you know, like some of the work started.

So like doing school gardens was something that was really good. And doing like family gardens, like working with women, growing, like women growing vegetables just on their like right at their homes, like trying to do some of that. And then like, there was a like a couple sort of ongoing reforestation project of there was this hill that was right there. And so like, there were like several like.

[Assistant] Layers?

[User] Just like, yeah, I mean, like plantings and community events and reforestation events. And that was good. I mean, those projects were, you know, and interspersed with like the rainy season and coffee. And you know what I mean, like there were just like seasonal, like these very seasonal shifts of like times when you could do things and times when you really couldn't. And eventually things like the work parts started coming together.

[Assistant] What kind of things did you grow in the gardens?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, like at some point it was just like, you know, like everybody talks about it, like, you're dreaming in Spanish.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I think also too, I mean, it's funny. You know, my Spanish is like, you know, like, I like, I have kind of like, you know. El Salvador in some ways, like the language is kind of formal too, like they don't use the tú form like, you know what I mean, it's like usted. And so like, I feel like in some ways, like my Spanish is kind of formal and that I was always like sort of like at work Spanish. Like I had some friends like, you know what I mean? Like I said, like going and like doing those like little gardens with women like it became more of like a friendship thing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting.

[Assistant] Diversity even within the volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I think also too, I mean, it's funny. You know, my Spanish is like, you know, like, I like, I have kind of like, you know. El Salvador in some ways, like the language is kind of formal too, like they don't use the tú form like, you know what I mean, it's like usted. And so like, I feel like in some ways, like my Spanish is kind of formal and that I was always like sort of like at work Spanish. Like I had some friends like, you know what I mean? Like I said, like going and like doing those like little gardens with women like it became more of like a friendship thing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting.

[Assistant] Diversity even within the volunteers.

[User] Yes, for sure. For sure.

[Assistant] So what did you do during vacation time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting.

[Assistant] Diversity even within the volunteers.

[User] Yes, for sure. For sure.

[Assistant] So what did you do during vacation time?

[User] I was lucky, like my family came down. But mostly I stayed in El Salvador. So it was nice because the country is so small like you could really get to see the whole country. So that was something that was really good.

[Assistant] You guys had to take vacation within country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was lucky, like my family came down. But mostly I stayed in El Salvador. So it was nice because the country is so small like you could really get to see the whole country. So that was something that was really good.

[Assistant] You guys had to take vacation within country?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country.

[Assistant] Like within El Salvador, it's not.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country.

[Assistant] Like within El Salvador, it's not.

[User] Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember.

[Assistant] Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country.

[Assistant] Like within El Salvador, it's not.

[User] Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember.

[Assistant] Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?

[User] I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah.

[Assistant] Just leisurely vacations.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember.

[Assistant] Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?

[User] I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah.

[Assistant] Just leisurely vacations.

[User] Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah.

[Assistant] Just leisurely vacations.

[User] Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?

[User] For sure.

[Assistant] Connecting with the kids?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?

[User] For sure.

[Assistant] Connecting with the kids?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you make any like significant impact with any one of them or would you like to talk about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For sure.

[Assistant] Connecting with the kids?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you make any like significant impact with any one of them or would you like to talk about?

[User] It's so hard to say, you know. I mean, there's definitely folks that I keep in touch with. And now that like Facebook is everywhere, like people sort of have reached out again. And it's nice and it's so sweet and there's always things that are great. And then it's also like, you know, I don't know if you have this or not, but it's like there's often requests for money, you know, that come with that, like reaching out when I haven't heard from somebody in a while and it's like. And I don't know how to deal with it, you know? And like, I'm very inconsistent. And sometimes, yeah, it's very generous and other times not. And like after I left. Like, there's a couple folks who like started like sort of a formal scholarship fund for women, and I didn't do anything like that, but I did, you know, like I sponsored two girls to go to college. And I don't know. It's interesting because it's just like, you know, like in retrospect, it's not like I'm mad that I did it or, you know, and I mean, but it was. I don't know that that changed, like that didn't really change. You know what I mean? It's so hard.

[Assistant] It's so hard to tell, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was definitely better the second year. Yeah.

[Assistant] So you, in the second year, you pretty much lived in the second house that you were in?

[User] Well, I think the final house, yeah like the third house. Yeah, I mean, I think probably I was there for about a year. That makes sense. And yeah, and I just think that right like that was like easier. Like, I had community that I liked, people that I knew that I hung out with, that were friends and, you know, and right. And then I wasn't with the super religious family anymore. And I wasn't with, you know, like Rosa was a little crazy. She was fine. But you know. But yeah, like just able to like have some space of my own and.

[Assistant] Structure.

[User] Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think the final house, yeah like the third house. Yeah, I mean, I think probably I was there for about a year. That makes sense. And yeah, and I just think that right like that was like easier. Like, I had community that I liked, people that I knew that I hung out with, that were friends and, you know, and right. And then I wasn't with the super religious family anymore. And I wasn't with, you know, like Rosa was a little crazy. She was fine. But you know. But yeah, like just able to like have some space of my own and.

[Assistant] Structure.

[User] Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?

[User] No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after.

[Assistant] Where was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?

[User] No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after.

[Assistant] Where was that?

[User] In Panama.

[Assistant] Was the experience very similar?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after.

[Assistant] Where was that?

[User] In Panama.

[Assistant] Was the experience very similar?

[User] No, it was like a total light year.

[Assistant] What was the difference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Panama.

[Assistant] Was the experience very similar?

[User] No, it was like a total light year.

[Assistant] What was the difference?

[User] I know. I mean, it was like a 180. So I was with a family and the family was very welcoming. And, you know, and I loved living with them and I had a room, you know, like I had space where I could be in my room. And um, and the family that I lived with was amazing. And, you know, the father was like a leader in sort of the organic agriculture movement. And, you know, we did a lot of great projects together, like he was ready. His organization was ready, you know.

[Assistant] For you to come.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was like a total light year.

[Assistant] What was the difference?

[User] I know. I mean, it was like a 180. So I was with a family and the family was very welcoming. And, you know, and I loved living with them and I had a room, you know, like I had space where I could be in my room. And um, and the family that I lived with was amazing. And, you know, the father was like a leader in sort of the organic agriculture movement. And, you know, we did a lot of great projects together, like he was ready. His organization was ready, you know.

[Assistant] For you to come.

[User] For anybody. You know what I mean? They were like, we have all this stuff to do. We need someone. And I was like, great, I'm here, you know? And then his wife and her sister had a little restaurant business kind of thing in their home. And so like, I did some agriculture stuff and then I did. Uh, there were all these little tiny schools, like there were sort of indigenous communities around there too. And like I would go and I would do just one environmental lesson a day at each. So like, I had five schools that I went to, one a day, and I would just did this like series of environmental lessons that another volunteer there and I developed. And it was like, yeah, I mean, it was just a total. Yeah, it was a total 180.

[Assistant] What made you want to do Response?