[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
That was frustrating for everybody, staff, Peace Corps staff and Peace Corps volunteers. Also, the uncertainty, I think, was difficult. And the people were alarmed at the potential for security problems. There had been a security problem in one town where people had been beaten up, so this, it was changing. Volunteers were not opposed to that, as inevitably were said at meetings, we're all university students in America. We know how students get involved in politics. So no one on the Peace Corps side was saying, you shouldn't do this, to their students. We were apprised and I think correctly that, well, whether they should do it or they shouldn't do it isn't our call. We are volunteers and we're foreigners.

So that became, it was becoming increasingly difficult. I never personally had a difficult time because of politics, though the national service teachers who were assigned to the schools were sort of the engine of student unrest and disruption, and you did see a change in attitude. So that was a very big change in Ethiopia. And it certainly affected Peace Corps. I also worked in two training programs for volunteers in Ethiopia.

[Assistant] For new groups that came in?

[User] Yeah, for new groups. And that was also, I enjoyed that a lot. And we did that in two towns in a coffee producing area. And that was interesting watching. And at that point, all training took place in-country. They had a preparatory week or something in the States, but everybody came and did their entire three months in country, which was different than our experience. And that, I enjoyed that tremendously. It was great meeting new volunteers. It was great listening to the same questions on the certainty that we had all had and seeing reactions. Some people went home as happens in any training program. Others stayed and were wonderful, and that was very enjoyable. And that would be three months. I did that two summers in a row. So I really, I did like that a lot.

[Assistant] So you liked the country enough that you extended for a year?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It must've been hard when you finally had to leave.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, for new groups. And that was also, I enjoyed that a lot. And we did that in two towns in a coffee producing area. And that was interesting watching. And at that point, all training took place in-country. They had a preparatory week or something in the States, but everybody came and did their entire three months in country, which was different than our experience. And that, I enjoyed that tremendously. It was great meeting new volunteers. It was great listening to the same questions on the certainty that we had all had and seeing reactions. Some people went home as happens in any training program. Others stayed and were wonderful, and that was very enjoyable. And that would be three months. I did that two summers in a row. So I really, I did like that a lot.

[Assistant] So you liked the country enough that you extended for a year?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It must've been hard when you finally had to leave.

[User] Yeah, I was ready to leave, you know.

[Assistant] Decided you probably needed a change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It must've been hard when you finally had to leave.

[User] Yeah, I was ready to leave, you know.

[Assistant] Decided you probably needed a change?

[User] Can't go on forever. It's just not healthy for me. I have a life to live and it's not there. So I was very, you know, I was ready to leave. I enjoyed coming back. There's all the, I think, and one of the things I think the National Peace Corps Association is good at is reaching out to returned volunteers because I think it is very disorienting when you come back. And you have a two-year period or longer, in some cases, that's very, very meaningful to you and allows you to come right out of, in those days, right out of college. It's different today. Peace Corps is different, and I think better today in that sense. But you come out and you have this intense experience and it's wonderful and everything like that. And you come back, and I'm sure the first experience you have is life isn't measuring up. I mean, this is not. I'm supposed to be always on.

[Assistant] Try and get back to the routine.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One can do other things, which I was not really very focused on before. So being fairly conservative and vesting in those days was a 10 year process. So I got through my 10 years of corporate life, a little bit more than 10 years. And someone brought to my attention that the American Red Cross did things other than blood services and domestic disaster response, had an entire international program. And they were looking for someone to run their international operations. Actually, the person who brought this to my attention was an Ethiopian.

[Assistant] Oh, somebody that you'd known from your Peace Corps time?

[User] I had known relatives of his when I was in Ethiopia. I did not know him directly. I met him here. Very nice guy. And he brought that to my attention. At first I thought, hmm, I don't know. I looked at it. I thought, what the hell? I might as well try this. So I went and had an interview. And they interviewed several people. So I got the job and I love that, I loved. I was with them for like 15 years, always doing international stuff. Some things in Ethiopia. I got to know the Ethiopian Red Cross quite well. But mainly a lot of things in Latin America, a lot of things in Asia. And I just, I enjoyed it. Eventually went from being director of operations to being the vice president for the whole thing, which was good. I felt very great about that ego satisfaction.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] A lot of time in, uh, boy, if you think your life is bureaucratic? Peace Corps, um, Red Cross can be very bureaucratic. A lot of time in Geneva working with the other Red Cross and Red Crescent organizations, but it was wonderful job. But at that time, by that time I was married. How Ethiopia keeps popping up in my life. I married an Ethiopian. One of the best decisions I ever made.

[Assistant] But this wasn't while you were volunteer, this is years after?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably the subsequent events that probably made the life of my, both my counterparts and my students, very, very difficult, and that's beyond your control. It's the country working out its future, which you are an observer. You're not a participant. And that, you know, had some things that were disappointing I think to all the volunteers that were there. But whether it's disappointing to us or gratifying to us, that's not really the bottom line. It's how did it work for the people in the country and they have to make the decision on that. But that was maybe a shadow over the whole thing, the way situations ended.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Well, it's unfortunate that happened. Yeah. All right. Well, OK, if there's nothing else.

[User] The NPCA is doing a great job. I really appreciate the National Peace Corps Association. I think they're getting that. But that has reinvigorated the returned Peace Corps volunteer community, and I'm tremendously appreciative of the work they do.

[Assistant] I'll pass that on.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Thanks very much.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Guatemala.

[Assistant] Guatemala. And your job description in Guatemala was?

[User] Community development.

[Assistant] And what month and year did you arrive there in Guatemala?

[User] Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964.

[Assistant] And you stayed until when?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Community development.

[Assistant] And what month and year did you arrive there in Guatemala?

[User] Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964.

[Assistant] And you stayed until when?

[User] August of '65.

[Assistant] What's your current address, Norma?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964.

[Assistant] And you stayed until when?

[User] August of '65.

[Assistant] What's your current address, Norma?

[User] I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara.

[Assistant] Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] August of '65.

[Assistant] What's your current address, Norma?

[User] I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara.

[Assistant] Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?

[User] About 15 years.

[Assistant] What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara.

[Assistant] Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?

[User] About 15 years.

[Assistant] What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?

[User] Well, let's see. I moved back from being 12 years overseas, and so I was ready to come back to the United States and wanted to live near my mother and my sister. Had no job. My husband had no job. We decided we would bring our three children here and make it work. So we did. We had all sorts of part time jobs, and then we started a business together of a language institute, and that took off unexpectedly.

[Assistant] Was that somehow related to your Peace Corps experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About 15 years.

[Assistant] What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?

[User] Well, let's see. I moved back from being 12 years overseas, and so I was ready to come back to the United States and wanted to live near my mother and my sister. Had no job. My husband had no job. We decided we would bring our three children here and make it work. So we did. We had all sorts of part time jobs, and then we started a business together of a language institute, and that took off unexpectedly.

[Assistant] Was that somehow related to your Peace Corps experience?

[User] In a way, I was, I graduated from college and high school majoring in Spanish, and even my husband and my Peace Corps and almost everything I've done since that time has been related to the language, knowing Spanish. So I'd have to say reversed. I knew when I went into the Peace Corps I wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country, and that's what happened. And a lot of things I've done in my life since Peace Corps have been because of Peace Corps or the same type of work.

[Assistant] Well, we've kind of jumped right into it. But you said you wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country. But what made you interested in Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just very, very profound. Yeah.

[Assistant] I'm sure.

[User] And we were, we were just totally doubly motivated, but it was a hard time.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah, it's a really hard time. So I'll never forget it. I mean, it was just one of the memorable moments of my life, although it was a tragedy. And Barbara said later that she was in a little African village.

[Assistant] Barbara's your sister?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it's a really hard time. So I'll never forget it. I mean, it was just one of the memorable moments of my life, although it was a tragedy. And Barbara said later that she was in a little African village.

[Assistant] Barbara's your sister?

[User] Barbara's my sister. And everyone there knew exactly who it was. The whole world knew President Kennedy. And I was even historically surprised later, many years later, I met Hubert Humphrey, and no one gives him the credit because it was his idea. It was President Kennedy's opportunity to put it in place but it was actually Hubert Humphrey's idea. And I used to, I worked for the governor of Wisconsin, and he came through and we had a nice little conversation about that.

[Assistant] Did you?

[User] And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so.

[Assistant] Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Barbara's my sister. And everyone there knew exactly who it was. The whole world knew President Kennedy. And I was even historically surprised later, many years later, I met Hubert Humphrey, and no one gives him the credit because it was his idea. It was President Kennedy's opportunity to put it in place but it was actually Hubert Humphrey's idea. And I used to, I worked for the governor of Wisconsin, and he came through and we had a nice little conversation about that.

[Assistant] Did you?

[User] And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so.

[Assistant] Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, yes, because I was a clerk. I started out with the governor as a clerk, I moved up to be an administrative assistant. But when he saw me, I was in the back room with the files and he was going down some back stairs. And so he was quite surprised that I had any knowledge of that at all. And we had, I went down the stairs with him, so we had time to talk about it. So I think he was as pleased as I was.

[Assistant] Hmm. Well, it sounds to me as if you, just even the training was a big event for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so.

[Assistant] Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, yes, because I was a clerk. I started out with the governor as a clerk, I moved up to be an administrative assistant. But when he saw me, I was in the back room with the files and he was going down some back stairs. And so he was quite surprised that I had any knowledge of that at all. And we had, I went down the stairs with him, so we had time to talk about it. So I think he was as pleased as I was.

[Assistant] Hmm. Well, it sounds to me as if you, just even the training was a big event for you.

[User] The training was wonderful, even with this tragedy that happened in the middle of it. We had first been told that we were going to train in Puerto Rico. And all of us had been sent tickets to New York. We were going to meet in New York and then fly to Puerto Rico. And I left on the plane and I got to New York and I got to the hotel where I was supposed to be, and they were like eight or ten other people. And it turned out that they had sent telegrams to everyone not to come, that there was an epidemic of influenza on the island where we were going to be training, and they had canceled our training for a month. Well, there were eight or ten of us in New York already. The others had gotten the telegram in time not to come. We had four wonderful days there before we went back to our homes to wait for the next ticket to the next place. And so that was the beginning that started us all off.

[Assistant] Knowing that this was not going to be this smooth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Organized.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Thing that.

[User] Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico.

[Assistant] Is that where you ended up training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Thing that.

[User] Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico.

[Assistant] Is that where you ended up training?

[User] And that's where we did our training.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why they chose Las Cruces?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico.

[Assistant] Is that where you ended up training?

[User] And that's where we did our training.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why they chose Las Cruces?

[User] I really don't know what, you know, this is way back in 1960. This is in the very beginning. So I, probably that was Spanish speaking country, I don't know, or that was a university that was willing to take on a project like that. We lived in what looked like, felt like a Holiday Inn. It was really a dormitory on the campus, but they were suites and it just seemed like, I felt like I was living in a Holiday Inn and it was quite different from where I was back in the South because the weather was different. And we had a wonderful time there. The main politics on campus were if the guys could wear their big ten gallon hats in the cafeteria. We had better things to do, and we had a wonderful time. The instructors were wonderful. We did all sorts of rope climbing and rappelling and, you know, all the physical things that they had us do to train us to be ready to go.

[Assistant] Why did they, why did they feel you needed the physical training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] What other kind of training?

[User] Oh, well, the other physical fitness thing I remember before we change the theme, I was in the swimming pool. We were fully clothed, and they tied our hands and feet and threw us in the deep end of a swimming pool. So then they taught us, and I still use it to this day, where you swallow the air into your lungs and use it as a buoyant. And we all lay right on top of the water, all with these heavy clothes and our hands and feet immovable. So it was just great. It was wonderful training. Scary as could be.

[Assistant] What year is this again?

[User] This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, well, the other physical fitness thing I remember before we change the theme, I was in the swimming pool. We were fully clothed, and they tied our hands and feet and threw us in the deep end of a swimming pool. So then they taught us, and I still use it to this day, where you swallow the air into your lungs and use it as a buoyant. And we all lay right on top of the water, all with these heavy clothes and our hands and feet immovable. So it was just great. It was wonderful training. Scary as could be.

[Assistant] What year is this again?

[User] This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training.

[User] And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?

[Assistant] Oh, right across the river? Laredo?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training.

[User] And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?

[Assistant] Oh, right across the river? Laredo?

[User] No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway.

[Assistant] Sounds like your group was very spirited.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?

[Assistant] Oh, right across the river? Laredo?

[User] No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway.

[Assistant] Sounds like your group was very spirited.

[User] Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit.

[Assistant] You were the baby.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway.

[Assistant] Sounds like your group was very spirited.

[User] Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit.

[Assistant] You were the baby.

[User] I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference.

[Assistant] Not there, I'm sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit.

[Assistant] You were the baby.

[User] I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference.

[Assistant] Not there, I'm sure.

[User] But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference.

[Assistant] Not there, I'm sure.

[User] But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?

[User] They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on.

[Assistant] Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?

[User] They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on.

[Assistant] Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that.

[User] Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um.

[Assistant] I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on.

[Assistant] Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that.

[User] Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um.

[Assistant] I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?

[User] Well, you know, when I say that we were going to be a Peace Corps family, the reason we turned out not to be wasn't because of that. It was because my mother and father went to have their physicals and my father found out he had leukemia, and he probably would not have found that out with a regular checkup. But the one for Peace Corps was so intense and thorough that they found that. So we were always grateful, not for the information. We didn't like what we found out, but he probably wouldn't have found it out and he might have had a different experience. He was able to live five years well and then about five months in pain before he died. So that was another big piece, you know, that we weren't going to be this Peace Corps family, and they weren't going to have an experience like we were having. But they were always thrilled, of course, that we were having that, both of us, and totally different. Totally different experiences.

[Assistant] You mentioned that Barbara was writing you a lot.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um.

[Assistant] I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?

[User] Well, you know, when I say that we were going to be a Peace Corps family, the reason we turned out not to be wasn't because of that. It was because my mother and father went to have their physicals and my father found out he had leukemia, and he probably would not have found that out with a regular checkup. But the one for Peace Corps was so intense and thorough that they found that. So we were always grateful, not for the information. We didn't like what we found out, but he probably wouldn't have found it out and he might have had a different experience. He was able to live five years well and then about five months in pain before he died. So that was another big piece, you know, that we weren't going to be this Peace Corps family, and they weren't going to have an experience like we were having. But they were always thrilled, of course, that we were having that, both of us, and totally different. Totally different experiences.

[Assistant] You mentioned that Barbara was writing you a lot.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Once you were in Guatemala, were you writing back to your family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Once you were in Guatemala, were you writing back to your family?

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. And I remember, in fact, I have a letter. I don't know where, I have them somewhere. I haven't read them for years. But I remember feeling so, um, vulnerable because there was so much poverty that we lived around. And my mother wrote, I mostly remember her writing me than me writing her because she would, in every letter she'd say, whatever you're doing, you eat well, you take care of yourself because you're doing for them more than they've ever had in that neighborhood. And, you know, you can't, or it's not productive for you to suffer what they're going through. Instead, put your energy into trying to help them raise their standard of living. So and things like that that were just wonderful, very helpful because I'm very empathic. Those kind of things bother me a lot, when people are hungry. So that was hard to live with and I had to get used to that. So her letters were very inspiring. I remember that.

[Assistant] So you did your training in New Mexico. And then you had the two weeks, you said, before you left the country, before you left the United States.

[User] Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough.

[Assistant] So those are memories of your last night before you left?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. And I remember, in fact, I have a letter. I don't know where, I have them somewhere. I haven't read them for years. But I remember feeling so, um, vulnerable because there was so much poverty that we lived around. And my mother wrote, I mostly remember her writing me than me writing her because she would, in every letter she'd say, whatever you're doing, you eat well, you take care of yourself because you're doing for them more than they've ever had in that neighborhood. And, you know, you can't, or it's not productive for you to suffer what they're going through. Instead, put your energy into trying to help them raise their standard of living. So and things like that that were just wonderful, very helpful because I'm very empathic. Those kind of things bother me a lot, when people are hungry. So that was hard to live with and I had to get used to that. So her letters were very inspiring. I remember that.

[Assistant] So you did your training in New Mexico. And then you had the two weeks, you said, before you left the country, before you left the United States.

[User] Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough.

[Assistant] So those are memories of your last night before you left?

[User] Yes, right.

[Assistant] You were at home, washing your hair.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough.

[Assistant] So those are memories of your last night before you left?

[User] Yes, right.

[Assistant] You were at home, washing your hair.

[User] Right. And then and everybody else is out having a good time. But then, see, we got on the plane and went to Guatemala the next day and that became a non-issue.

[Assistant] So what were your first impressions? Do you have any memories of arriving in Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, right.

[Assistant] You were at home, washing your hair.

[User] Right. And then and everybody else is out having a good time. But then, see, we got on the plane and went to Guatemala the next day and that became a non-issue.

[Assistant] So what were your first impressions? Do you have any memories of arriving in Guatemala?

[User]
Oh, yes, we were community development. We were CARE volunteers. In the early stages, they used some of the already existing American, um, not businesses, but organizations that were already established. And Guatemala I and Guatemala II were both Grange projects. So that meant they were all males, they were cattle, they were up in the country, out in the country, you know, dealing with farmers and their cattle. And so when our community development project came, they associated us with CARE. Actually, our bosses were CARE people, they were employees of CARE. And we went to the CARE office for meetings or our checks or whatever. And we really liked that. We thought that was really cool, that we could be CARE volunteers.

And in the CARE office there was a Rolodex next to a great big barrel, and in the barrel were just hundreds of seeds of all different kinds in the little envelopes they come in. And so if you took a bunch of seeds to make a garden, you went through the Rolodex. It was by state, and you went to your state and you got the name of somebody who'd given a donation to CARE, and then you wrote them as a Peace Corps volunteer and thanked them and told them about the vegetable garden that you were using their money that had gone for seeds for the children in such and such a place. And it was, you know, to thank people for their donations and give it a, you know, a home town homegrown flavor of what this was doing, that it was actually being done in the foreign country. So we used to love to do that. We thought that was great.

[Assistant] Where were you actually posted?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yes, I think it really did. I got to be a part of his family that whole time. So I think in some ways I got to know the culture in ways that other volunteers didn't. And I ended up marrying a Latin American, not him, but another one. So I think probably it did really color my experience.

[Assistant] Was that fairly common among your group?

[User] No, very uncommon.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances.

[Assistant] What about within the group of volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, very uncommon.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances.

[Assistant] What about within the group of volunteers?

[User] Within the group there were several, yes.

[Assistant] Anyone get married from your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances.

[Assistant] What about within the group of volunteers?

[User] Within the group there were several, yes.

[Assistant] Anyone get married from your group?

[User] I think.

[Assistant] With one another?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Within the group there were several, yes.

[Assistant] Anyone get married from your group?

[User] I think.

[Assistant] With one another?

[User] Yes, I think, I can think of two. And they were already eight couples and three had babies there while we were there. So that was always very exciting too.

[Assistant] Three had babies while you were there? They didn't send them home when they had babies then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. But we had very strict rules and we were never allowed to go back to the United States or anything like that.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] I know they do now, but that seems very strange. We had very strict rules, but they did allow that. In fact, one of the women, um, she had a group of women in her village, they were all Indian women. And they kept telling her about all these myths, you know, the whole time she was pregnant. And she kept doing exactly what they told her not to, like stare at the full moon and all these things that were going to make her have a baby that wasn't normal. And finally she decided if she went into the city, because they did mandate them to go into the city hospital. They couldn't have a baby, you know, in their own village. She thought, well, these women are not going to believe that the baby I bring back is the baby that I had. So she arranged to have all these women come in on a bus and come into the hospital and watch her birth. I don't remember the details because I didn't know her that well, but I thought that was going to an extreme of a wonderful way to educate, you know?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things.

[Assistant] Oh, I'm sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I know they do now, but that seems very strange. We had very strict rules, but they did allow that. In fact, one of the women, um, she had a group of women in her village, they were all Indian women. And they kept telling her about all these myths, you know, the whole time she was pregnant. And she kept doing exactly what they told her not to, like stare at the full moon and all these things that were going to make her have a baby that wasn't normal. And finally she decided if she went into the city, because they did mandate them to go into the city hospital. They couldn't have a baby, you know, in their own village. She thought, well, these women are not going to believe that the baby I bring back is the baby that I had. So she arranged to have all these women come in on a bus and come into the hospital and watch her birth. I don't remember the details because I didn't know her that well, but I thought that was going to an extreme of a wonderful way to educate, you know?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things.

[Assistant] Oh, I'm sure.

[User]
Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?

There was I and II. And of course.

[Assistant] They were still there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things.

[Assistant] Oh, I'm sure.

[User]
Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?

There was I and II. And of course.

[Assistant] They were still there?

[User] They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was.

[Assistant] But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?

There was I and II. And of course.

[Assistant] They were still there?

[User] They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was.

[Assistant] But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And if everyone else was out in the countryside.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was.

[Assistant] But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And if everyone else was out in the countryside.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] But they would come in for visits or for Peace Corps business or just?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And if everyone else was out in the countryside.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] But they would come in for visits or for Peace Corps business or just?

[User] Yeah, for whatever. You know, they might come in to get seeds and equipment or they might come in to, um, for a medical reason, or they might, we all might be called in for a meeting or something. The CARE, um, we were CARE volunteers probably a year. And then there was a major change and they sent a regular Peace Corps director. [tape break]

[Assistant] Think about the changeover in the administration from CARE to the regular Peace Corps director?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was many years after, but I knew these are the kinds of people who would do that. And they did. I think that, yeah, I think they're just basically fine people that really wanted to do, make a difference. And one of the gals in my Peace Corps group became the president of the City Council of New York. One of the guys in our group became President Carter's appointment secretary. So. Those are the probably two. Yes, I mean, they were the two outstanding ones, but boy, the others weren't far behind.

[Assistant] Yeah, well, your own background that you described sounded to me to be ideal training.

[User] Yeah, so. But they didn't have. I mean, a lot of them didn't have the support from their families that I had. I really appreciated that later when I realized how little support.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] I mean, some of these parents were angry at them for doing this.

[Assistant] Was that something that you talked about a lot among yourself? How your family felt?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, so. But they didn't have. I mean, a lot of them didn't have the support from their families that I had. I really appreciated that later when I realized how little support.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] I mean, some of these parents were angry at them for doing this.

[Assistant] Was that something that you talked about a lot among yourself? How your family felt?

[User] You know, I don't think I even realized it until I got on the airplane to go home with, there were three of us. One of my roommates and this gal who'd been up in, the one who became the president of the City Council of New York, wonderful gal. She's now with the United Nations over in UNESCO in Geneva and is a good friend of Hillary Clinton's and could very well be a political leader, female political leaders in our, in our time. And her father was just, he met us at the airport in Miami. And he was just furious that she had wasted two years and was very unsupportive.

[Assistant] Wasting two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. That's when it began to hit me of how much I had, it had come naturally, you know. And they took me, they took me without graduating from college. OK, why?

[Assistant] Unusual.

[User]
Very unusual. And it was for one reason only. And that was my sister was already in the Peace Corps and I had the same references, the same background, you know what I'm saying? And by that time, they had discovered maybe not use just straight A students, maybe B students that had a little more socialization. I don't know if they'd had problems with that, but that's how it was told to me, that they were looking for a little bit of diversity. And I seemed to, I had that language, you see, I already had the language, and I think that was a really important thing. Although this is another, um, important point, because this was way in the beginning. You didn't say, you know, I'm not going unless I have this comfort or that comfort. But I had a bottom line and that was a running and flushing toilet. And I just boldly said, I want to go to a Spanish speaking country, but I have to have a flushing toilet. And so I was picked to be in the group, the four women that stayed in the city that had a little house with three little bedrooms and a flushing toilet bathroom.

Although everyone in the neighborhood every morning at 7 a.m. heard the gringa scream. Because I, when I hit that cold water for the shower, which had no hot water. I, the only way I could hit that cold water in the morning was screaming. And so the whole neighborhood would say, oh, la gringa! Because they knew it was me taking a shower. But I got my flushing toilet and that was, that was very important.

[Assistant] So that's why you were in the city, not because of the age, perhaps?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Your being underage.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Very unusual. And it was for one reason only. And that was my sister was already in the Peace Corps and I had the same references, the same background, you know what I'm saying? And by that time, they had discovered maybe not use just straight A students, maybe B students that had a little more socialization. I don't know if they'd had problems with that, but that's how it was told to me, that they were looking for a little bit of diversity. And I seemed to, I had that language, you see, I already had the language, and I think that was a really important thing. Although this is another, um, important point, because this was way in the beginning. You didn't say, you know, I'm not going unless I have this comfort or that comfort. But I had a bottom line and that was a running and flushing toilet. And I just boldly said, I want to go to a Spanish speaking country, but I have to have a flushing toilet. And so I was picked to be in the group, the four women that stayed in the city that had a little house with three little bedrooms and a flushing toilet bathroom.

Although everyone in the neighborhood every morning at 7 a.m. heard the gringa scream. Because I, when I hit that cold water for the shower, which had no hot water. I, the only way I could hit that cold water in the morning was screaming. And so the whole neighborhood would say, oh, la gringa! Because they knew it was me taking a shower. But I got my flushing toilet and that was, that was very important.

[Assistant] So that's why you were in the city, not because of the age, perhaps?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Your being underage.

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] And they wanted to make sure you weren't out in the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] And they wanted to make sure you weren't out in the country?

[User] No, because I did everything else everybody else did. I mean, I went across that rope. I gained my fame with that rope crossing. They just teased me because when we were in the bars in the town, they had to babysit me. But no, I held my own the rest of the way.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years.

[Assistant] I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because I did everything else everybody else did. I mean, I went across that rope. I gained my fame with that rope crossing. They just teased me because when we were in the bars in the town, they had to babysit me. But no, I held my own the rest of the way.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years.

[Assistant] I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] Or you take some interviewing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years.

[Assistant] I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] Or you take some interviewing.

[User] Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories.

[Assistant] So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] Or you take some interviewing.

[User] Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories.

[Assistant] So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?

[User] Resistance.

[Assistant] Resistance or negativity by their families.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories.

[Assistant] So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?

[User] Resistance.

[Assistant] Resistance or negativity by their families.

[User] Well, the one, the one did. And they weren't all like that. But that was when I began to appreciate the support that I had had, my mother's letter, just getting there in the first place. Just my background, you know, my international parents. That was unusual.

[Assistant] So I asked you what it felt, what you remembered about arriving in the country. What did it feel like the first few weeks or months when you had come back to the United States after your experiences?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, in Temple City, California. Yeah. And that was many years later. But it was all because of Peace Corps and bumping into this man in a funny way. And you know how those things happened.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So the influences.

[Assistant] It's funny Peace Corps was kind of a thread all through your life.

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. In fact, you know, when I think about it a little bit, I think of what I did in Guatemala, but I lived in Costa Rica for 12 years later, married with children.

[Assistant] This was long after?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. In fact, you know, when I think about it a little bit, I think of what I did in Guatemala, but I lived in Costa Rica for 12 years later, married with children.

[Assistant] This was long after?

[User] Long after. I mean, the 12, it was like. I've lived here in Santa Barbara 15 years. The 12 years before that, I lived in Costa Rica and my children were born there. But I did a project there that was much more productive in terms of helping, that I could feel like I was helping. I did a huge refugee project there that I named the Central American Refugee Project. And I just felt like, OK, I've done it once as a volunteer, I know how to do this. And it just came. It was just like the back of my hand, and I was able to create this huge, helpful situation only because I'd done it before.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane.

[Assistant] Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Long after. I mean, the 12, it was like. I've lived here in Santa Barbara 15 years. The 12 years before that, I lived in Costa Rica and my children were born there. But I did a project there that was much more productive in terms of helping, that I could feel like I was helping. I did a huge refugee project there that I named the Central American Refugee Project. And I just felt like, OK, I've done it once as a volunteer, I know how to do this. And it just came. It was just like the back of my hand, and I was able to create this huge, helpful situation only because I'd done it before.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane.

[Assistant] Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say.

[Assistant] So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane.

[Assistant] Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say.

[Assistant] So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely.

[Assistant] Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say.

[Assistant] So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely.

[Assistant] Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?

[User] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, and the Peace Corps and the Spanish one. The Spanish came before the Peace Corps, but it all flows together. Yeah. They all dovetail. Yeah. So.

[Assistant] All right. So you've done so many things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely.

[Assistant] Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?

[User] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, and the Peace Corps and the Spanish one. The Spanish came before the Peace Corps, but it all flows together. Yeah. They all dovetail. Yeah. So.

[Assistant] All right. So you've done so many things.

[User] Well.

[Assistant] What are your activities in Santa Barbara? How have they related to your Peace Corps experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Changing planes. All the planes meet there.

[Assistant] Have you had contact at all with people, even if you haven't been in the country?

[User] My Peace, I consider Mary, who's in San Diego, my Peace Corps roommate. And when I, they didn't even know that Mary. They couldn't, the ones that contacted me didn't know where she was. And I've always kept in contact with her. They didn't even know she was married. They didn't know she was in San Diego. And so she's going to be in Chicago and I'm going to fly there and we're going to drive from Chicago to this, to this reunion. But they were, the ones that were that are doing the reunion, were very excited to find some of the people that they've lost. So we're not very organized. I know that there's a Guatemala group, but there are all the different.

[Assistant] Every different group.

[User] Groups. And I need to join that. I mean, I want to hear about that and I'll learn all about that this summer. And I never had anything to do with Peace Corps in Costa Rica. There was a huge Peace Corps training there. But I somehow, you know, I was up on the mountain and my, with my little children, just in another world except for the project that we did. And it's still there. It's really lovely for me. I go to Costa Rica and the house and the farm that we lived on was called a finca ranch or farm, Finca Dona Norma after me. And then on the other mountain across the valley, there's another Finca Dona Norma, which is the refugees. They didn't know how to thank us for helping them, so they named it after me. So I had these two Finca Dona Normas in Costa Rica and I always love to go there and see how they're doing.

[Assistant] Are they're still there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They're still there. They're still there. And my whole idea was a very self-help project was to help build these houses and then they would eventually go back to El Salvador when they could, sell the house and the land and be able to have money to go back and redo a new life in El Salvador. And a Costa Rican family could buy their little house and their little piece of land. But what's happened is their children have all married into Costa Rica. And so none of them, very few of them I think, I don't think any of them have gone back now that I think about it. So, but that's a whole other story. But very Peace Corps. Very Peace Corps. Yeah.

[Assistant] So you didn't bring Peace Corps back to America so much. I mean, your experience back to America so much as you brought them to American transit and then took them over to Costa Rica.

[User] But, you know, I do, I speak Spanish all day long and my clients are all Latinos.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Monolingual, except for the teens. I have two teen groups and they're in English, but we go back and forth. And so I feel like I'm still there. [tape break]

[Assistant] This is tape two of two tapes. Norma Benavides being interviewed by Elizabeth Hodes on April 26, 2003. And while I was changing the tape, you were reminded of something that you thought was an interesting experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was there a lot of interaction between the volunteers and the staff, or was there much staff at that, in those days?

[User] There were. There. I think the staff wasn't more than maybe four people that I remember. First, it was the CARE staff. You know, Kenny and Tony were CARE administrators and their secretary had a romance with one of, with one of them. That was with one of them. And but like Kenny and his wife were there, and we went to their house for dinners a lot. We were in the city, for one thing, and we were very social. It was a very social group.

[Assistant] Did they give you much guidance in terms of what you did or were you pretty independent and could do what you wanted to do?

[User] You know, I think it was pretty programed through the social work school that we would live in these certain areas and we were working these specific projects. I mean, we did community development, we did the nutrition project, we did the inoculation project. That was another fun thing, this.

[Assistant] You didn't mention that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were. There. I think the staff wasn't more than maybe four people that I remember. First, it was the CARE staff. You know, Kenny and Tony were CARE administrators and their secretary had a romance with one of, with one of them. That was with one of them. And but like Kenny and his wife were there, and we went to their house for dinners a lot. We were in the city, for one thing, and we were very social. It was a very social group.

[Assistant] Did they give you much guidance in terms of what you did or were you pretty independent and could do what you wanted to do?

[User] You know, I think it was pretty programed through the social work school that we would live in these certain areas and we were working these specific projects. I mean, we did community development, we did the nutrition project, we did the inoculation project. That was another fun thing, this.

[Assistant] You didn't mention that.

[User] No, I didn't.

[Assistant] Tell me something about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The fluorescent light, why do we have to go to this extreme? You know, because most of the schools in Guatemala at that point only had three sides. It was made out of thatched roof. And the side that was open for light was the side that the rain didn't come in on. You don't need neon fluorescent lights, you know? And they would pick our brains because we were working down at the bottom level. I mean, we could really see what was, how to make the bridge the gap. And so that was always very interesting to me, you know, just how we would just go from one role to the other and just in and out of these different cultural worlds. And we would try and take the Guatemalans with us so that the people in those worlds would begin to recognize their faces through us. You know, that maybe when we left that they would still have the, some a little bit of clout to get what they needed after we were gone. And so we did a lot of that. We were really aware of that. Not sure why but.

[Assistant] It's a question of continuity.

[User] Yes, yeah, I think we were always.

[Assistant] Do you think there was continuity?

[User] I think it could have been better.

[Assistant] A residue of your program after you left.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yeah, I think we were always.

[Assistant] Do you think there was continuity?

[User] I think it could have been better.

[Assistant] A residue of your program after you left.

[User]
You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.

I remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts.

[Assistant] To provide technical assistance.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it could have been better.

[Assistant] A residue of your program after you left.

[User]
You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.

I remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts.

[Assistant] To provide technical assistance.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.

I remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts.

[Assistant] To provide technical assistance.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And to help promote better understanding of them by.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And to help promote better understanding of them by.

[User] Coming back, right.

[Assistant] Bringing the world back home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Coming back, right.

[Assistant] Bringing the world back home.

[User] And when I came, yeah. When I came home, I just felt like I had gotten so much more out of it than I had ever put into it. So that when I did the second project in Costa Rica, I felt fine. I felt like, OK, now I've given as much as I've gotten. So that had that kind of satisfaction to it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And yet when I go back and look at all the things we did, we did so much, but it was hard to measure.

[Assistant] Yeah. It seems to me you had a very full two year experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, yes. We dealt with some of the big organizations from other countries, especially the United States. We dealt with the mayor and the zone mayor. I mean, there were all sorts of things going on. We used to get movies. I remember the mayor of the zone and we'd go into this place and we put up and people would come from everywhere to see a movie. And we would get the movie projector from the German embassy and we'd get the movies from the American embassy and we get all these different people to help us just bring people together. It didn't matter if we were doing an inoculation program or what, or it's just for fun, just for entertainment, just for education. There is educational. But we were always dealing at many, many, many levels. And there was one male and one female put in each of the villages. And I just think it would have been a totally different experience.

[Assistant] When they came, did you ever talk about the differences in your experiences?

[User] Always. Oh, always, always. And one of the differences that, something that made a difference is that the guys that didn't drink had a harder time than the guys that drank. Because they would go to the cantinas and that's where a lot of the projects would start to have fruition. You know, they, the idea started there and then they would create it later. And the guys who didn't drink didn't have that social contact. Um, things like that that made a difference sometimes. But I was very happy to be in the city. I think it probably worked out best that way. My roommates were all older. They all had different problems that I didn't have. So that was interesting to see. But for the most, I don't know, I just have no idea what. I didn't live that other experience, um, so.

[Assistant] Well looking back, is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanted, that occurred to you while we were talking?

[User] Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life.

[Assistant] It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Always. Oh, always, always. And one of the differences that, something that made a difference is that the guys that didn't drink had a harder time than the guys that drank. Because they would go to the cantinas and that's where a lot of the projects would start to have fruition. You know, they, the idea started there and then they would create it later. And the guys who didn't drink didn't have that social contact. Um, things like that that made a difference sometimes. But I was very happy to be in the city. I think it probably worked out best that way. My roommates were all older. They all had different problems that I didn't have. So that was interesting to see. But for the most, I don't know, I just have no idea what. I didn't live that other experience, um, so.

[Assistant] Well looking back, is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanted, that occurred to you while we were talking?

[User] Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life.

[Assistant] It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] That you came away with that Peace Corps experience and it's colored your life in many ways.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life.

[Assistant] It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] That you came away with that Peace Corps experience and it's colored your life in many ways.

[User]
Many ways. Yeah. And I will forever be grateful because I feel like I've had a very productive life. And yet it's changed enormously. It's gone from one, you know, I worked as a social worker. I worked for the governor of Wisconsin. I worked as a teacher for 25 years. I taught English and Spanish in seven different countries. And then at the age of 45, I became a therapist. So but it's always been in with, um, you know, in that kind of Peace Corps context. And even today, you know, I spend my whole week with the lore, that I really believe that what I'm doing, working with the silent community of Santa Barbara, is really important. So.

And I would have to say this, too, as a therapist, when I sit down with a Latino, there's something about how present oriented they are, which I experienced for all those years that I was in South America. It's like they give me a gift before I give them any gift or help, and I feel it and I don't feel that way with an Anglo client. So there's something about Latin America. I lived 17 years, almost a third of my life, there. That has real meaning for me. That's been a place that I fit into in my own way. So it wasn't just they sent me to this country that means nothing to me. It really is a part of me. And I carry it wherever I go. So I'm grateful that I could expand and appreciate my own culture, but also am able to go into another one and find comfort there as well. So.

[Assistant] I think that makes a nice way to end this interview. It's been a pleasure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's all correct. Life changing experience.

[Assistant] All right. So, Meredith, tell us what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps.

[User] A year before I joined the Peace Corps, I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, which was a huge recruiting campus for Peace Corps volunteers.

[Assistant] Ah yes.

[User] And it still is, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah it is.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A year before I joined the Peace Corps, I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, which was a huge recruiting campus for Peace Corps volunteers.

[Assistant] Ah yes.

[User] And it still is, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah it is.

[User] But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work.

[Assistant] Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it still is, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah it is.

[User] But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work.

[Assistant] Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?

[User] I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work.

[Assistant] Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?

[User] I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?

[User] I had three brothers, two older and one younger.

[Assistant] You're the only girl.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?

[User] I had three brothers, two older and one younger.

[Assistant] You're the only girl.

[User] I was.

[Assistant] And what sort of work did your parents do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was.

[Assistant] And what sort of work did your parents do?

[User] Well, my parents were both nurses. My dad also had been a welder in the shipyards in Connecticut during the war. But when he came to Wisconsin, he did welding for a little while and then he did nursing in a variety of places and taught nursing here also. And my mother actually taught obstetrics after she was a nurse.

[Assistant] Terrific.

[User] And they farmed. We had this five acre, four or five acres here, and so they farmed to feed the family. They didn't farm to sell, but they farmed to keep us in produce and livestock.

[Assistant] Yes, and we're sitting here in a house. Is this the house, the very house that you grew up in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, my parents were both nurses. My dad also had been a welder in the shipyards in Connecticut during the war. But when he came to Wisconsin, he did welding for a little while and then he did nursing in a variety of places and taught nursing here also. And my mother actually taught obstetrics after she was a nurse.

[Assistant] Terrific.

[User] And they farmed. We had this five acre, four or five acres here, and so they farmed to feed the family. They didn't farm to sell, but they farmed to keep us in produce and livestock.

[Assistant] Yes, and we're sitting here in a house. Is this the house, the very house that you grew up in?

[User] The very house, the very house I grew up in.

[Assistant] And so all this wonderful land and the gardens behind us were your gardens as a child?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The very house, the very house I grew up in.

[Assistant] And so all this wonderful land and the gardens behind us were your gardens as a child?

[User] They were. Yeah, they were.

[Assistant] How wonderful.

[User] They still are gardens, just not ours.

[Assistant] Yes. And so you went to high school in Madison?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They still are gardens, just not ours.

[Assistant] Yes. And so you went to high school in Madison?

[User] I did. I went to Central High.

[Assistant] Central High.

[User] I did.

[Assistant] That doesn't exist anymore.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I went to Central High.

[Assistant] Central High.

[User] I did.

[Assistant] That doesn't exist anymore.

[User] No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates.

[Assistant] Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did.

[Assistant] That doesn't exist anymore.

[User] No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates.

[Assistant] Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?

[User] I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college.

[Assistant] What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates.

[Assistant] Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?

[User] I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college.

[Assistant] What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?

[User] I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing.

[Assistant] And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college.

[Assistant] What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?

[User] I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing.

[Assistant] And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?

[User] We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer.

[Assistant] OK, so certainly not international travel.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing.

[Assistant] And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?

[User] We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer.

[Assistant] OK, so certainly not international travel.

[User] Oh no, oh no, no, no, no.

[Assistant] And then you went off to college. You went to UW?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer.

[Assistant] OK, so certainly not international travel.

[User] Oh no, oh no, no, no, no.

[Assistant] And then you went off to college. You went to UW?

[User] I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university.

[Assistant] And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no, oh no, no, no, no.

[Assistant] And then you went off to college. You went to UW?

[User] I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university.

[Assistant] And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?

[User] You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things.

[Assistant] Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university.

[Assistant] And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?

[User] You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things.

[Assistant] Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?

[User] I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that.

[Assistant] So your major was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things.

[Assistant] Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?

[User] I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that.

[Assistant] So your major was?

[User] Social work. I started out as an art major and then within a year I transferred to social work.

[Assistant] So there would have been field experiences.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that.

[Assistant] So your major was?

[User] Social work. I started out as an art major and then within a year I transferred to social work.

[Assistant] So there would have been field experiences.

[User] Yes, yes, yes, yeah, for sure.

[Assistant] And then somewhere, was it while you were at the University of Wisconsin that you got this idea to go into the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes, yes, yeah, for sure.

[Assistant] And then somewhere, was it while you were at the University of Wisconsin that you got this idea to go into the Peace Corps?

[User] It was actually, I think it was. I mean, Kennedy was president when I started school and when I was in school, and I really like the idea of that, but it really shook me when he was assassinated.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but.

[Assistant] You didn't save the world?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was actually, I think it was. I mean, Kennedy was president when I started school and when I was in school, and I really like the idea of that, but it really shook me when he was assassinated.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but.

[Assistant] You didn't save the world?

[User] Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years.

[Assistant] So did you apply while you were a student?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but.

[Assistant] You didn't save the world?

[User] Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years.

[Assistant] So did you apply while you were a student?

[User] You know, I think I actually had graduated. I got married just as I was leaving school and sort of had negotiated with my fiancé at the time. I said, I need to do this Peace Corps thing. It's just, my God, I have to do this. And you can either go with me or you can wait till I come back and see if I come back and see if I'm still the person you want to be with when I come back. And he said, no, no, he would apply. We would apply together. And so we actually applied as a married couple.

[Assistant] As a married couple. So your name before you were married was Margaret Green.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years.

[Assistant] So did you apply while you were a student?

[User] You know, I think I actually had graduated. I got married just as I was leaving school and sort of had negotiated with my fiancé at the time. I said, I need to do this Peace Corps thing. It's just, my God, I have to do this. And you can either go with me or you can wait till I come back and see if I come back and see if I'm still the person you want to be with when I come back. And he said, no, no, he would apply. We would apply together. And so we actually applied as a married couple.

[Assistant] As a married couple. So your name before you were married was Margaret Green.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Although nobody ever called you Margaret.