{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.19332234290339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a senior at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior at the time and I'm from Massachusetts, you know. My mother was a very active in the town Democratic committee and knew him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knew Kennedy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew the Kennedys, and she thought it was a great idea. My father, he didn't think it was such a great idea, and he says, oh, you should get a job, you should go to, you could play. Try pro baseball. You're a pretty good baseball player. But nobody was knocking down the doors to sign me, so I said, well, I'll go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he didn't object too much about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.325913714337098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior at the time and I'm from Massachusetts, you know. My mother was a very active in the town Democratic committee and knew him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knew Kennedy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew the Kennedys, and she thought it was a great idea. My father, he didn't think it was such a great idea, and he says, oh, you should get a job, you should go to, you could play. Try pro baseball. You're a pretty good baseball player. But nobody was knocking down the doors to sign me, so I said, well, I'll go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he didn't object too much about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up, where did you grow up in Massachusetts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.36212634926344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew the Kennedys, and she thought it was a great idea. My father, he didn't think it was such a great idea, and he says, oh, you should get a job, you should go to, you could play. Try pro baseball. You're a pretty good baseball player. But nobody was knocking down the doors to sign me, so I said, well, I'll go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he didn't object too much about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up, where did you grow up in Massachusetts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Norwood, which is about 20 miles south of Boston. It's about, at that time it was about 25,000 people and just a small town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were a baseball player and then you got a scholarship to the University of Denver?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.06902927695938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up, where did you grow up in Massachusetts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Norwood, which is about 20 miles south of Boston. It's about, at that time it was about 25,000 people and just a small town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were a baseball player and then you got a scholarship to the University of Denver?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, that time they didn't give baseball scholarships. You had to go to basketball and that, you know, it was. I was the oldest of seven and my mother's Irish and my father was Lithuanian. And he was an all-American football player at Boston College back in the '30s and did box professionally. So everybody in town knew my dad and he was a teacher at the junior high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so athletics are clearly part of your family. So joining a physical education program is just a natural thing to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.965588085510422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Norwood, which is about 20 miles south of Boston. It's about, at that time it was about 25,000 people and just a small town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were a baseball player and then you got a scholarship to the University of Denver?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, that time they didn't give baseball scholarships. You had to go to basketball and that, you know, it was. I was the oldest of seven and my mother's Irish and my father was Lithuanian. And he was an all-American football player at Boston College back in the '30s and did box professionally. So everybody in town knew my dad and he was a teacher at the junior high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so athletics are clearly part of your family. So joining a physical education program is just a natural thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this association that you read about it in the magazine, it was the group that sponsored a Peace Corps group or how did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.072875650567134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, that time they didn't give baseball scholarships. You had to go to basketball and that, you know, it was. I was the oldest of seven and my mother's Irish and my father was Lithuanian. And he was an all-American football player at Boston College back in the '30s and did box professionally. So everybody in town knew my dad and he was a teacher at the junior high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so athletics are clearly part of your family. So joining a physical education program is just a natural thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this association that you read about it in the magazine, it was the group that sponsored a Peace Corps group or how did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard that. How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.303195167296817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this association that you read about it in the magazine, it was the group that sponsored a Peace Corps group or how did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard that. How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a national organization of physical education and recreation people. And at the university, we all were student members, so we would get the monthly magazine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you all joined as a group or they just did the recruiting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.336883519218684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard that. How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a national organization of physical education and recreation people. And at the university, we all were student members, so we would get the monthly magazine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you all joined as a group or they just did the recruiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did the recruiting, but the group, mostly my group was. There was only one other guy in the group that played basketball in college, but the other guys were boxers. There was a two, there were twins. One was in the Olympics with Muhammad Ali and the other one was boxing the Pan Am games. There was an Olympic rower. He was an alternate on the rowing team. There were swimmers. Track and field. One guy that was a football player, but he was really big into photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were not from the same place, you were from all over?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.15209279913187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a national organization of physical education and recreation people. And at the university, we all were student members, so we would get the monthly magazine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you all joined as a group or they just did the recruiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did the recruiting, but the group, mostly my group was. There was only one other guy in the group that played basketball in college, but the other guys were boxers. There was a two, there were twins. One was in the Olympics with Muhammad Ali and the other one was boxing the Pan Am games. There was an Olympic rower. He was an alternate on the rowing team. There were swimmers. Track and field. One guy that was a football player, but he was really big into photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were not from the same place, you were from all over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over the country, yeah. The oldest one was that guy, an older guy. He had his doctorate in physical education. Our Peace Corps coordinator or our leader, Eliseo Carrasco. He was a football coach out of California, but he spoke fluent Spanish. And so he was the contact person for all of us. And he went through training with us and then went to Colombia and was stationed in Bogota. So he coordinated all the activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. You got a letter saying, come to training in Colombia or how did that work? How long did it take to hear back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.72454755459097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did the recruiting, but the group, mostly my group was. There was only one other guy in the group that played basketball in college, but the other guys were boxers. There was a two, there were twins. One was in the Olympics with Muhammad Ali and the other one was boxing the Pan Am games. There was an Olympic rower. He was an alternate on the rowing team. There were swimmers. Track and field. One guy that was a football player, but he was really big into photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were not from the same place, you were from all over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over the country, yeah. The oldest one was that guy, an older guy. He had his doctorate in physical education. Our Peace Corps coordinator or our leader, Eliseo Carrasco. He was a football coach out of California, but he spoke fluent Spanish. And so he was the contact person for all of us. And he went through training with us and then went to Colombia and was stationed in Bogota. So he coordinated all the activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. You got a letter saying, come to training in Colombia or how did that work? How long did it take to hear back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It happened I had to go to summer school to finish up to get my degree. And because I played ball, I missed a couple of classes, and so I had to pick it up at summer school. And I graduated in July because we were on a quarter system at Denver. And when I went home, I got the letter. Because of course, I didn't know what I was going to do. And I just. Training didn't start until late October, I guess, or November. And so I had a whole bunch of time to find out what the heck is going on. So I picked up some odd jobs and worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your friends think about all of this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.360608393989967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over the country, yeah. The oldest one was that guy, an older guy. He had his doctorate in physical education. Our Peace Corps coordinator or our leader, Eliseo Carrasco. He was a football coach out of California, but he spoke fluent Spanish. And so he was the contact person for all of us. And he went through training with us and then went to Colombia and was stationed in Bogota. So he coordinated all the activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. You got a letter saying, come to training in Colombia or how did that work? How long did it take to hear back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It happened I had to go to summer school to finish up to get my degree. And because I played ball, I missed a couple of classes, and so I had to pick it up at summer school. And I graduated in July because we were on a quarter system at Denver. And when I went home, I got the letter. Because of course, I didn't know what I was going to do. And I just. Training didn't start until late October, I guess, or November. And so I had a whole bunch of time to find out what the heck is going on. So I picked up some odd jobs and worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your friends think about all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was kind of interesting. They really had no idea about the Peace Corps at that time. I mean, they had heard about it, but it wasn't a thing. The interesting part was when I came home, nobody wanted to know about what I did in the Peace Corps. I mean, I, like I tell Kay, we were social misfits. That's why we got married, because nobody cared what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, nobody wanted to hear it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.178453771099964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It happened I had to go to summer school to finish up to get my degree. And because I played ball, I missed a couple of classes, and so I had to pick it up at summer school. And I graduated in July because we were on a quarter system at Denver. And when I went home, I got the letter. Because of course, I didn't know what I was going to do. And I just. Training didn't start until late October, I guess, or November. And so I had a whole bunch of time to find out what the heck is going on. So I picked up some odd jobs and worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your friends think about all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was kind of interesting. They really had no idea about the Peace Corps at that time. I mean, they had heard about it, but it wasn't a thing. The interesting part was when I came home, nobody wanted to know about what I did in the Peace Corps. I mean, I, like I tell Kay, we were social misfits. That's why we got married, because nobody cared what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, nobody wanted to hear it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.198281967888846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was kind of interesting. They really had no idea about the Peace Corps at that time. I mean, they had heard about it, but it wasn't a thing. The interesting part was when I came home, nobody wanted to know about what I did in the Peace Corps. I mean, I, like I tell Kay, we were social misfits. That's why we got married, because nobody cared what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, nobody wanted to hear it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I never really thought too much about it. I just say, gee, this is, you know, all I wanted to talk about is what they did and what we did in high school and I wasn't. I had gone beyond that and they were still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't care about the outside world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.442535519876497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I never really thought too much about it. I just say, gee, this is, you know, all I wanted to talk about is what they did and what we did in high school and I wasn't. I had gone beyond that and they were still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't care about the outside world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, because Norwood, it's a small, small town. I mean, everybody knows everybody and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's just talk about. They invited you, where was your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.269483910973886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I never really thought too much about it. I just say, gee, this is, you know, all I wanted to talk about is what they did and what we did in high school and I wasn't. I had gone beyond that and they were still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't care about the outside world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, because Norwood, it's a small, small town. I mean, everybody knows everybody and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's just talk about. They invited you, where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Paso, Texas. It was the University of Texas Western. And we, uh, what was kind of interesting. We were with physical education group and the other half of the group was English teachers. They were teaching English as a second language. And my group, you know, the physical education was all guys. The women were in the, it was a mixture of men and women in the English speaking group. But we trained together in El Paso. And nobody on the faculty or any of the training that we had, had been to Colombia. They all read about it, but they had not been to Colombia. But the training was really good. The Spanish labs and everything else were really good. And our group, we went through different program on soccer because that was the most popular sport in Colombia at that time. And it still is. So we had to learn about soccer because most of us had no knowledge of soccer at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your cultural training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.18831545663765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, because Norwood, it's a small, small town. I mean, everybody knows everybody and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's just talk about. They invited you, where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Paso, Texas. It was the University of Texas Western. And we, uh, what was kind of interesting. We were with physical education group and the other half of the group was English teachers. They were teaching English as a second language. And my group, you know, the physical education was all guys. The women were in the, it was a mixture of men and women in the English speaking group. But we trained together in El Paso. And nobody on the faculty or any of the training that we had, had been to Colombia. They all read about it, but they had not been to Colombia. But the training was really good. The Spanish labs and everything else were really good. And our group, we went through different program on soccer because that was the most popular sport in Colombia at that time. And it still is. So we had to learn about soccer because most of us had no knowledge of soccer at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your cultural training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of unusual because nobody had been there. You know, they had met, they had known Colombians and stuff like that, but nobody had actually been to Colombia. So I didn't think that was a very it was a very strong part of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was it all classroom based or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.320350507375167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Paso, Texas. It was the University of Texas Western. And we, uh, what was kind of interesting. We were with physical education group and the other half of the group was English teachers. They were teaching English as a second language. And my group, you know, the physical education was all guys. The women were in the, it was a mixture of men and women in the English speaking group. But we trained together in El Paso. And nobody on the faculty or any of the training that we had, had been to Colombia. They all read about it, but they had not been to Colombia. But the training was really good. The Spanish labs and everything else were really good. And our group, we went through different program on soccer because that was the most popular sport in Colombia at that time. And it still is. So we had to learn about soccer because most of us had no knowledge of soccer at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your cultural training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of unusual because nobody had been there. You know, they had met, they had known Colombians and stuff like that, but nobody had actually been to Colombia. So I didn't think that was a very it was a very strong part of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was it all classroom based or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was lecture, classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a Hispanic neighborhood?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.022611674861295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of unusual because nobody had been there. You know, they had met, they had known Colombians and stuff like that, but nobody had actually been to Colombia. So I didn't think that was a very it was a very strong part of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was it all classroom based or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was lecture, classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a Hispanic neighborhood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We were encouraged to go over to Juarez and practice our Spanish. But no.\n\nBecause at that time, you could just walk across the border and go over to Juarez. But it was a Spanish, the labs and the classes, a lot of the classes were done in Spanish to get us acclimated. And then we went. We actually, at the end of training because it was in December, it was middle of December and we could go home for Christmas. And they wanted us. They asked the physical education group, actually the English group too, they voted down to go to Puerto Rico. For Outward Bound training. All the physical education people were going. So the day after Christmas, we had to get on the plane and go to Puerto Rico. And the English group decided they would stay over because we weren't doing Bogota till middle of January. And so they decided they would stay home for that period of time, whereas the physical education got, we're going. And that was really a fantastic experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.691790749845886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was lecture, classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a Hispanic neighborhood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We were encouraged to go over to Juarez and practice our Spanish. But no.\n\nBecause at that time, you could just walk across the border and go over to Juarez. But it was a Spanish, the labs and the classes, a lot of the classes were done in Spanish to get us acclimated. And then we went. We actually, at the end of training because it was in December, it was middle of December and we could go home for Christmas. And they wanted us. They asked the physical education group, actually the English group too, they voted down to go to Puerto Rico. For Outward Bound training. All the physical education people were going. So the day after Christmas, we had to get on the plane and go to Puerto Rico. And the English group decided they would stay over because we weren't doing Bogota till middle of January. And so they decided they would stay home for that period of time, whereas the physical education got, we're going. And that was really a fantastic experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a camp in the rainforest out in Arecibo, and they had a swimming pool there and they had an Outward Bound training program where there were obstacle courses and where they, like, take you out and leave you in the. You had to, taught you how to build a lean-to out of banana leaves and eat snails. And we had a, one of the exercises was there was four of us on the team and we were given a compass and a map. And they said, here's where you are now, in three days we're going to pick you up at this point. Well, one of my guys in my group was an Eagle Scout, so he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He knew what he was doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.846077846153477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He knew what he's doing. And we pushed like heck. So instead of three days, we got there in two days. They were camped outside this little village and the police chief comes out and says, what are you guys doing here? And we say, well, you know, we're waiting for a ride back to the Peace Corps camp. And so they invited us into town and that was an excuse to have a big party. And you know, I tell people, I mean, being a Peace Corps volunteer is like being a rock star. Everybody knows who you are, where you are, what you had for breakfast and what you're doing. And so I mean, it's, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is it a good bonding experience for everybody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And one of the interesting things happened. We had a visit by Harry Belafonte, who was on the Peace Corps council at the time, and they were doing a show in town, the capital city, I can't think of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "San Juan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, yeah. They were doing a show and he was with Carol Burnett and Robert Goulet, and they came out to the camp. And because they were still the camp was still being constructed and there was we lived in tents, but the tents were on wood platforms and stuff with bunks. And so one of the tents was under construction and it was still just a platform. So they get up and Harry, you know, got up and sang a few songs, answered questions and stuff, was really a great guy. And Carol Lawrence was unreal. She went through the obstacle course where you had to climb nets and swing on ropes, and she went through it like nothing. And she says, I want to do that again. Because she was a dancer and she was, you know, she was very strong upper body and could do a lot of the exercises through the course. So that was a. Robert Goulet, he was kind of a jerky guy. He, well, I don't have my music. I can't do it. You know, he didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a strong guy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.606753162392753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And one of the interesting things happened. We had a visit by Harry Belafonte, who was on the Peace Corps council at the time, and they were doing a show in town, the capital city, I can't think of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "San Juan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, yeah. They were doing a show and he was with Carol Burnett and Robert Goulet, and they came out to the camp. And because they were still the camp was still being constructed and there was we lived in tents, but the tents were on wood platforms and stuff with bunks. And so one of the tents was under construction and it was still just a platform. So they get up and Harry, you know, got up and sang a few songs, answered questions and stuff, was really a great guy. And Carol Lawrence was unreal. She went through the obstacle course where you had to climb nets and swing on ropes, and she went through it like nothing. And she says, I want to do that again. Because she was a dancer and she was, you know, she was very strong upper body and could do a lot of the exercises through the course. So that was a. Robert Goulet, he was kind of a jerky guy. He, well, I don't have my music. I can't do it. You know, he didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a strong guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was just, he was along for the ride. I mean, but the I was very impressed with Carol Lawrence. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.56305906932528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, yeah. They were doing a show and he was with Carol Burnett and Robert Goulet, and they came out to the camp. And because they were still the camp was still being constructed and there was we lived in tents, but the tents were on wood platforms and stuff with bunks. And so one of the tents was under construction and it was still just a platform. So they get up and Harry, you know, got up and sang a few songs, answered questions and stuff, was really a great guy. And Carol Lawrence was unreal. She went through the obstacle course where you had to climb nets and swing on ropes, and she went through it like nothing. And she says, I want to do that again. Because she was a dancer and she was, you know, she was very strong upper body and could do a lot of the exercises through the course. So that was a. Robert Goulet, he was kind of a jerky guy. He, well, I don't have my music. I can't do it. You know, he didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a strong guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was just, he was along for the ride. I mean, but the I was very impressed with Carol Lawrence. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess, what happened after Puerto Rico? Where did you go? Did you go back for more training or did you go straight overseas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.73673229925031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was just, he was along for the ride. I mean, but the I was very impressed with Carol Lawrence. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess, what happened after Puerto Rico? Where did you go? Did you go back for more training or did you go straight overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went directly to Colombia. But in training, everything with the group, everybody wanted to know what the record was for this particular exercise. You had to swim. We had drown proofing. And you had to swim underwater the length of the pool and come back. You didn't have to come all the way back, but you know, that was one of the exercises. Well, we have one guy. He goes down, he comes back up, he goes down again and he's on his way back. They jump in to get him. He had, you know, he was, you know, oxygen debt, whatever. They had to bring him up because he was going to drown. But we had all kinds of crazy things happen to us, but it was great. Rappelling off the dam, taught us how to rappel off this large dam that is there. And it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect for a physical ed group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.15192477694479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess, what happened after Puerto Rico? Where did you go? Did you go back for more training or did you go straight overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went directly to Colombia. But in training, everything with the group, everybody wanted to know what the record was for this particular exercise. You had to swim. We had drown proofing. And you had to swim underwater the length of the pool and come back. You didn't have to come all the way back, but you know, that was one of the exercises. Well, we have one guy. He goes down, he comes back up, he goes down again and he's on his way back. They jump in to get him. He had, you know, he was, you know, oxygen debt, whatever. They had to bring him up because he was going to drown. But we had all kinds of crazy things happen to us, but it was great. Rappelling off the dam, taught us how to rappel off this large dam that is there. And it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect for a physical ed group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, our physical education group, we just ate it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked that. OK. So you flew from Puerto Rico to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.835471974383097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went directly to Colombia. But in training, everything with the group, everybody wanted to know what the record was for this particular exercise. You had to swim. We had drown proofing. And you had to swim underwater the length of the pool and come back. You didn't have to come all the way back, but you know, that was one of the exercises. Well, we have one guy. He goes down, he comes back up, he goes down again and he's on his way back. They jump in to get him. He had, you know, he was, you know, oxygen debt, whatever. They had to bring him up because he was going to drown. But we had all kinds of crazy things happen to us, but it was great. Rappelling off the dam, taught us how to rappel off this large dam that is there. And it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect for a physical ed group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, our physical education group, we just ate it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked that. OK. So you flew from Puerto Rico to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly to Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened when you got to Bogota?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.817191082647884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, our physical education group, we just ate it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked that. OK. So you flew from Puerto Rico to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly to Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened when you got to Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got put up in the hotel and we were had a kind of an orientation program there. The English group had now arrived and we met all together to get our assignments. And one of the things, kind of funny. We were invited to the ambassador's residence for a, you know, a reception. Well, the physical education guys, you know, they're all athletes. So they said, well, a reception, there's going to be food there. So they gave us money for food. Well, everybody just put the money in their pocket. So we go to the ambassador's, they bus us down to the ambassador's residence and, yep, there's food. We ate them out of house and home. The ambassador's wife was embarrassed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no food left."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.1302123140532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly to Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened when you got to Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got put up in the hotel and we were had a kind of an orientation program there. The English group had now arrived and we met all together to get our assignments. And one of the things, kind of funny. We were invited to the ambassador's residence for a, you know, a reception. Well, the physical education guys, you know, they're all athletes. So they said, well, a reception, there's going to be food there. So they gave us money for food. Well, everybody just put the money in their pocket. So we go to the ambassador's, they bus us down to the ambassador's residence and, yep, there's food. We ate them out of house and home. The ambassador's wife was embarrassed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no food left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they invited a Peace Corps group back, but it was, that was our induction into the, you know, the ambassador and the, what we call it, the civil service, you know, there. But anyway, she was really embarrassed by the whole fact that that they ran out of food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably only had daughters and didn't know about young guys."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 36.81134701561467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got put up in the hotel and we were had a kind of an orientation program there. The English group had now arrived and we met all together to get our assignments. And one of the things, kind of funny. We were invited to the ambassador's residence for a, you know, a reception. Well, the physical education guys, you know, they're all athletes. So they said, well, a reception, there's going to be food there. So they gave us money for food. Well, everybody just put the money in their pocket. So we go to the ambassador's, they bus us down to the ambassador's residence and, yep, there's food. We ate them out of house and home. The ambassador's wife was embarrassed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no food left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they invited a Peace Corps group back, but it was, that was our induction into the, you know, the ambassador and the, what we call it, the civil service, you know, there. But anyway, she was really embarrassed by the whole fact that that they ran out of food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably only had daughters and didn't know about young guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently not. Apparently not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where were you assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.012607795127415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they invited a Peace Corps group back, but it was, that was our induction into the, you know, the ambassador and the, what we call it, the civil service, you know, there. But anyway, she was really embarrassed by the whole fact that that they ran out of food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably only had daughters and didn't know about young guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently not. Apparently not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Medellin, the Universidad de Antioquia, and I found out later that they, when they were looking for placing people, the head of the English department, John. Oh, I can't remember his last name, though. But anyway, he was married to a Peruvian gal and he was head of the English department. And so they were looking for English teachers to teach a, you know, English as a second language at the university. So he's going to the face book and he sees a Kevin Dixon played baseball at the University of Denver, and he says, oh, we can use him in the physical education. He was the head coach of a local baseball team that played in the league, which was made up of Americans that were working in Medellin, and it was sponsored by Coca-Cola. And so he alerted the physical education department that this guy was available, and they should get them. Anyway, that's how I ended up there and playing baseball for Coca- Cola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With other Americans, the whole team were Americans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.34734199458602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently not. Apparently not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Medellin, the Universidad de Antioquia, and I found out later that they, when they were looking for placing people, the head of the English department, John. Oh, I can't remember his last name, though. But anyway, he was married to a Peruvian gal and he was head of the English department. And so they were looking for English teachers to teach a, you know, English as a second language at the university. So he's going to the face book and he sees a Kevin Dixon played baseball at the University of Denver, and he says, oh, we can use him in the physical education. He was the head coach of a local baseball team that played in the league, which was made up of Americans that were working in Medellin, and it was sponsored by Coca-Cola. And so he alerted the physical education department that this guy was available, and they should get them. Anyway, that's how I ended up there and playing baseball for Coca- Cola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With other Americans, the whole team were Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the thing is in training, nobody told us that they played baseball in Colombia. They said, yeah, there was a little baseball on the coast, but not in yet here.\n\nAnd you know, I didn't bring any baseball stuff. I didn't have any spikes and didn't have my glove. So there was a fellow that worked for Kellogg's, and he traveled around South America, so he got left handed. So he picked up a left handed glove and got some spikes and I'm ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who did you play? Did you play other Americans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.71926888287335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Medellin, the Universidad de Antioquia, and I found out later that they, when they were looking for placing people, the head of the English department, John. Oh, I can't remember his last name, though. But anyway, he was married to a Peruvian gal and he was head of the English department. And so they were looking for English teachers to teach a, you know, English as a second language at the university. So he's going to the face book and he sees a Kevin Dixon played baseball at the University of Denver, and he says, oh, we can use him in the physical education. He was the head coach of a local baseball team that played in the league, which was made up of Americans that were working in Medellin, and it was sponsored by Coca-Cola. And so he alerted the physical education department that this guy was available, and they should get them. Anyway, that's how I ended up there and playing baseball for Coca- Cola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With other Americans, the whole team were Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the thing is in training, nobody told us that they played baseball in Colombia. They said, yeah, there was a little baseball on the coast, but not in yet here.\n\nAnd you know, I didn't bring any baseball stuff. I didn't have any spikes and didn't have my glove. So there was a fellow that worked for Kellogg's, and he traveled around South America, so he got left handed. So he picked up a left handed glove and got some spikes and I'm ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who did you play? Did you play other Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we played other Colombian teams. Universidad de Antioquia had a baseball team. And by, let's see, below the Viana, there were four or five. It was a league of six teams. Oh, the military had a team of cuatro beguile. And most of those guys were custodians. They had come in the interior from the, you know, they were in the military. So yeah, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they all learn baseball, was it taught in school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.910298758748162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the thing is in training, nobody told us that they played baseball in Colombia. They said, yeah, there was a little baseball on the coast, but not in yet here.\n\nAnd you know, I didn't bring any baseball stuff. I didn't have any spikes and didn't have my glove. So there was a fellow that worked for Kellogg's, and he traveled around South America, so he got left handed. So he picked up a left handed glove and got some spikes and I'm ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who did you play? Did you play other Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we played other Colombian teams. Universidad de Antioquia had a baseball team. And by, let's see, below the Viana, there were four or five. It was a league of six teams. Oh, the military had a team of cuatro beguile. And most of those guys were custodians. They had come in the interior from the, you know, they were in the military. So yeah, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they all learn baseball, was it taught in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had already played somewhere else before. But because the gringos were playing, they would have two or three thousand people would show up for the game on Sunday morning. And they would bet on what the next pitch was going to be, a ball or a strike, or it was going to be hit in the air or on the ground and by that they were all drunk as skunks. Then they would go across the street to the football stadium, you know, the soccer stadium, because Medellin had two professional soccer teams. The Millonarios and oh shucks, I can't think of the other. The Nacional. Yeah, Nacional and Millonarios. And they played every week. It was going to be a soccer game so they would go from the baseball game over to the soccer stadium. And the soccer stadium was huge. It was about 100,000 people and people come in from the campo all over the place for this thing. It was a big social event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a big part of your Peace Corps experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 35.45588750972018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we played other Colombian teams. Universidad de Antioquia had a baseball team. And by, let's see, below the Viana, there were four or five. It was a league of six teams. Oh, the military had a team of cuatro beguile. And most of those guys were custodians. They had come in the interior from the, you know, they were in the military. So yeah, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they all learn baseball, was it taught in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had already played somewhere else before. But because the gringos were playing, they would have two or three thousand people would show up for the game on Sunday morning. And they would bet on what the next pitch was going to be, a ball or a strike, or it was going to be hit in the air or on the ground and by that they were all drunk as skunks. Then they would go across the street to the football stadium, you know, the soccer stadium, because Medellin had two professional soccer teams. The Millonarios and oh shucks, I can't think of the other. The Nacional. Yeah, Nacional and Millonarios. And they played every week. It was going to be a soccer game so they would go from the baseball game over to the soccer stadium. And the soccer stadium was huge. It was about 100,000 people and people come in from the campo all over the place for this thing. It was a big social event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a big part of your Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that I love to go to the bullfights too. They were fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do as a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 35.25418211076565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that I love to go to the bullfights too. They were fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. We helped set up the physical education department, and basically the department at the time was basically the soccer and track and field, gymnastics, stunts and tumbling, that kind of thing. Team sports were not, except for the soccer. The popular sport in Colombia at that time was bicycle races. They had road or bicycle races, you know, they had a metrodome, and then they would have the cross-country type of races, which attracted a lot of people. But basketball was not a very popular. It was played, but it was marginal. My counterpart at the university was a fellow by the name of Edison Christopher. And he was on the national team, basketball team, and he was from the San Andrés, the island of San Andrés, which was given to Colombia by Queen Victoria. So he spoke English with a British accent.\n\nAnd he also was, you know, huge black fellow. He was about 6'6\", real big guy. But he was a very good basketball player, a very talented guy. And he also played baseball for the university team, which I didn't play for. But he got me involved playing ball all over the city for his teams and stuff and coaching. And it worked, worked out very well. We conducted physical education classes at the university. They had a school that they had teacher training with. And I worked primarily with those teachers and expanding the curriculum and then setting up programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did it for one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.801222543462348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had. It was just an extension of my athletic scholarship, really. It was fun. I met a lot of interesting people. And my counterpart, Edison, was really pivotal because he introduced me to, you know, everybody in Medellin that was anybody. I mean, it was. And because at the baseball team, the American consulate played second base. I could walk into the consulate office and, oh, hey. They'd rush me right in. Because the baseball team was kind of interesting. The catcher was Chandler and the first baseman was John. And then the American consulate played second. There was a shortstop was a guy that was logging oil wells. And the third baseman was the Rice Krispie salesman of South America. The outfield was other Peace Corps volunteers and one was a banker, the banker of the local bank. So, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So not your traditional Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, hey, if we were having a Peace Corps party, they'd say, Kevin, we need some Coca-Cola. So I could call up to Coca-Cola, we need five or six cases of Coca-Cola. I never got a bill. But the main drink in Colombia, it was rum and coke. I never developed a taste for it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you traveled all around the country? You were based in Medellin the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've been in Bucaramanga, Cartagena, Barranquilla. What's it? Popayan. And I also travel for the university basketball team, too. So I mean, I got to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your professional career, just in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.668025048291497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, hey, if we were having a Peace Corps party, they'd say, Kevin, we need some Coca-Cola. So I could call up to Coca-Cola, we need five or six cases of Coca-Cola. I never got a bill. But the main drink in Colombia, it was rum and coke. I never developed a taste for it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you traveled all around the country? You were based in Medellin the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've been in Bucaramanga, Cartagena, Barranquilla. What's it? Popayan. And I also travel for the university basketball team, too. So I mean, I got to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your professional career, just in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained contact with any of these people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 30.74225005365722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've been in Bucaramanga, Cartagena, Barranquilla. What's it? Popayan. And I also travel for the university basketball team, too. So I mean, I got to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your professional career, just in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained contact with any of these people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kind of, but we became partners in the Americas. I was working as superintendent recreation in Norwood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you came back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.448026297297996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was up, I believe he was here for about a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a short term."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still in touch with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he died last year. I regret not, you know, connecting with him. But yeah, he's got a couple sons, of course, Colombians have large families. He's got a couple. One played in basketball in Texas, at a school in Texas. And there's a couple still teaching at the University of Antioquia. I mean, he's one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did stay in touch with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.948180613948143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he died last year. I regret not, you know, connecting with him. But yeah, he's got a couple sons, of course, Colombians have large families. He's got a couple. One played in basketball in Texas, at a school in Texas. And there's a couple still teaching at the University of Antioquia. I mean, he's one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did stay in touch with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had Christmas cards and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with the Peace Corps volunteers as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 32.164645126609045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had Christmas cards and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with the Peace Corps volunteers as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. We used to have reunions every once in a while, but we just, you know, everyone's well, get e-mails and stuff. We just, you know, who's died and that type of thing. But yeah, yeah, that's about the extent of it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the impact for your career from all of this? It sounds like you came back and worked in recreation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.938569148050384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. We had beauty parlor. We had a video library. We had T-ball teams, we had swimming teams, we had softball leagues for the adult men and we had trips for the women into the souq."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, let me ask you, we skipped over this. You keep talking about your wife. How did you meet your wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I tell you, you got to read the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me. So it's part of this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll give you my elevator version."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the short version."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.03527055314862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll give you my elevator version."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the short version."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a call, at the university Antioquia, I got a call one day that the Peace Corps had requested that they needed some help setting up sports programs out in Barrio Antioquia. So I went to my boss. I'm going to go out to Barrio Antioquia. Oh no, you're not going out there. I had met volunteers that worked out there. I had met Kay, probably at a party I don't recall. But I had, you know, Peace Corps volunteers are out there, so I says, I can't be there. You know, how bad could it be? So I went out to Barrio Antioquia and met with Kay and Jimenez and one of the male volunteers that was out there. Having a senior moment here. Anyway, he was on the baseball team, so, you know, I wasn't in unfamiliar territory. And when I went out there, they wanted to set up these programs because that was what they were doing in community development. I said, well, sure, we can do that. And that's what I did. I, you know, I would go out there part-time and help them with the programs. It turned out, you know, Barrio Antioquia was second largest red light district in South America. And I mean, I'm sure Kay told you about the story about how they how she ended up out there, the political ramifications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all. So I don't need to reiterate on that, but I like telling people I met my wife at a red light district and they look at you, oh, so they can't wait to meet her. You know, they think I married a Colombian. And so when she walks in, you know, she the blonde. And so they can't wait. Your husband said he met you at a red-light district and she gets all red. I said, well, it's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get married in Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.88128597122495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. So she's sitting there and you know, the food comes out of the kitchen. it gets the passed around, everybody helping. When she comes out, there's nothing on Kay's plate. You know, it's family style, you know, and she's really embarrassed. Yeah. So we all have to take stuff off our plate, put it back in. So then the ice cream comes out. Well, she gets a plate, so she thinks she's supposed to take something out of that and puts her there. She doesn't realize that's hers, because we used to get big portions of ice cream for dessert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She made it through all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She made through. The thing is, she interviewed at the job and she talks to the guy. And, you know, I guess I know where they ask her about whether she's engaged or whatever. She said, no, she wants to come to Boston to work. Well, hey, I pick her up after the interview, show her around Boston, and I take her to Durgin-Park, which is a restaurant on the and it's family style where they just have long tables and they just sit everybody and you don't know who you're going to be sitting next to. You know, you just and it's old time. It's got the when they convert it over to from electricity, they get wires are just hanging around. I mean, it's kind of an interesting place. Anyway, who do we sit next to? The guy that interviewed her. So after lunch, she said, I'm never going to get that job now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Small world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than meeting your wife in the Peace Corps, what do you think the impact has been on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.20142885691661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She made through. The thing is, she interviewed at the job and she talks to the guy. And, you know, I guess I know where they ask her about whether she's engaged or whatever. She said, no, she wants to come to Boston to work. Well, hey, I pick her up after the interview, show her around Boston, and I take her to Durgin-Park, which is a restaurant on the and it's family style where they just have long tables and they just sit everybody and you don't know who you're going to be sitting next to. You know, you just and it's old time. It's got the when they convert it over to from electricity, they get wires are just hanging around. I mean, it's kind of an interesting place. Anyway, who do we sit next to? The guy that interviewed her. So after lunch, she said, I'm never going to get that job now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Small world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than meeting your wife in the Peace Corps, what do you think the impact has been on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. You know, growing up in Massachusetts and you know, I traveled a lot when I played basketball at the University in Denver. I was never really exposed to poverty or, well, even like prostitution was legal in Colombia. You know, that was a whole different thing. I mean, a lot of the players that I coached were, you know, they really didn't have a lot of things. I mean, gee whiz, I mean, they basically just had the clothes on their backs. So, you know, even shoes were a problem. And I just had never, you know, even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been exposed to any of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.6682542854629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than meeting your wife in the Peace Corps, what do you think the impact has been on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. You know, growing up in Massachusetts and you know, I traveled a lot when I played basketball at the University in Denver. I was never really exposed to poverty or, well, even like prostitution was legal in Colombia. You know, that was a whole different thing. I mean, a lot of the players that I coached were, you know, they really didn't have a lot of things. I mean, gee whiz, I mean, they basically just had the clothes on their backs. So, you know, even shoes were a problem. And I just had never, you know, even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been exposed to any of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. And because once you left the urban areas and you went out into the countryside, I mean, I mean, they didn't have a heck of a lot. I mean, it was just subsistence living from, you know, hand to mouth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you take from all of that? But how has that changed your life? Has it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 16.298060317181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. You know, growing up in Massachusetts and you know, I traveled a lot when I played basketball at the University in Denver. I was never really exposed to poverty or, well, even like prostitution was legal in Colombia. You know, that was a whole different thing. I mean, a lot of the players that I coached were, you know, they really didn't have a lot of things. I mean, gee whiz, I mean, they basically just had the clothes on their backs. So, you know, even shoes were a problem. And I just had never, you know, even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been exposed to any of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. And because once you left the urban areas and you went out into the countryside, I mean, I mean, they didn't have a heck of a lot. I mean, it was just subsistence living from, you know, hand to mouth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you take from all of that? But how has that changed your life? Has it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. I mean, I try to impress upon my kids how lucky we are to be, you know, Americans. I mean, when you come back to the United States after being in the Peace Corps, you know you, you realize how really lucky we are. I mean, it's just, you know, I don't, I'm not a real big flag waver. But boy, I tell you, it made a big impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What do you think the impact of your physical education program, your activities in particular, were? In all the communities in which you worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.647554210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he's training to be a professional baseball player. I said, look, you've got to learn to speak English because when you go to the United States, if you don't speak English, you're going to be taken advantage of. So you better, you know, work on that as much as you're working on your baseball skills. But this is apparently a training program that is about seven or eight cities in Colombia that have these programs that are sponsored by Major League Baseball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were there at the beginning, getting a lot of that started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I don't know if that was a definite outgrowth, but it's a whole, it's a whole different approach to things. There are a number of Colombians playing Major League Baseball today. Might be five or six, but there's a bunch of them in the minor leagues, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hey, that's an impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess the third goal of Peace Corps is bringing the world back to the United States. You talked about the sister program when you were in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.9417269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I don't know if that was a definite outgrowth, but it's a whole, it's a whole different approach to things. There are a number of Colombians playing Major League Baseball today. Might be five or six, but there's a bunch of them in the minor leagues, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hey, that's an impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess the third goal of Peace Corps is bringing the world back to the United States. You talked about the sister program when you were in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Partners of the Americas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Partners of the Americas, when you were in Massachusetts. Have you been involved in other activities as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.824141000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess the third goal of Peace Corps is bringing the world back to the United States. You talked about the sister program when you were in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Partners of the Americas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Partners of the Americas, when you were in Massachusetts. Have you been involved in other activities as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly just when we were in Massachusetts, we were always invited to the Kennedy, any time there was something going on at the Kennedy Museum there, we would be invited. It's a different aspect when you go out to the state of Washington, it's a different, you know, they just feel so isolated out there. They don't have no connection with Washington, D.C. There's a Peace Corps group in Spokane that we're active in, but it's mostly old people. There aren't any young people in it. I mean, there's, and I'm in a stamp club, the same thing. I mean, people younger are not interested in collecting stamps, which I started when I was in Colombia.\n\nThere was a stamp dealer off campus and we never worked a full week. I mean, the students were on strike or there was some sort of holiday or whatever so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.69349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Partners of the Americas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Partners of the Americas, when you were in Massachusetts. Have you been involved in other activities as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly just when we were in Massachusetts, we were always invited to the Kennedy, any time there was something going on at the Kennedy Museum there, we would be invited. It's a different aspect when you go out to the state of Washington, it's a different, you know, they just feel so isolated out there. They don't have no connection with Washington, D.C. There's a Peace Corps group in Spokane that we're active in, but it's mostly old people. There aren't any young people in it. I mean, there's, and I'm in a stamp club, the same thing. I mean, people younger are not interested in collecting stamps, which I started when I was in Colombia.\n\nThere was a stamp dealer off campus and we never worked a full week. I mean, the students were on strike or there was some sort of holiday or whatever so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had time on my hands. So it was a guy off the campus that sold leather goods and had stamps, Colombian stamps. So I've got to kind of a nice collection of Colombian stamps that I got at that time. But he was a Jewish fellow. He had the tattoo, you know, because there were a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the concentration camps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.326100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly just when we were in Massachusetts, we were always invited to the Kennedy, any time there was something going on at the Kennedy Museum there, we would be invited. It's a different aspect when you go out to the state of Washington, it's a different, you know, they just feel so isolated out there. They don't have no connection with Washington, D.C. There's a Peace Corps group in Spokane that we're active in, but it's mostly old people. There aren't any young people in it. I mean, there's, and I'm in a stamp club, the same thing. I mean, people younger are not interested in collecting stamps, which I started when I was in Colombia.\n\nThere was a stamp dealer off campus and we never worked a full week. I mean, the students were on strike or there was some sort of holiday or whatever so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had time on my hands. So it was a guy off the campus that sold leather goods and had stamps, Colombian stamps. So I've got to kind of a nice collection of Colombian stamps that I got at that time. But he was a Jewish fellow. He had the tattoo, you know, because there were a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the concentration camps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were a lot of Jewish immigrants in Colombia. German particularly too. Actually, they started the Avianca Airlines. But, you know, former German pilots, they started a. Because in Colombia, the three miles, you know, you couldn't, there weren't any roads going over the mountains. You had to go down to the coast, then go back up the valley to get anywhere. You know, a lot of the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had flights."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.029000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had time on my hands. So it was a guy off the campus that sold leather goods and had stamps, Colombian stamps. So I've got to kind of a nice collection of Colombian stamps that I got at that time. But he was a Jewish fellow. He had the tattoo, you know, because there were a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the concentration camps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were a lot of Jewish immigrants in Colombia. German particularly too. Actually, they started the Avianca Airlines. But, you know, former German pilots, they started a. Because in Colombia, the three miles, you know, you couldn't, there weren't any roads going over the mountains. You had to go down to the coast, then go back up the valley to get anywhere. You know, a lot of the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, I end each interview by asking whether there's something else that I should have asked about that you wanted to tell a story about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.8100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were a lot of Jewish immigrants in Colombia. German particularly too. Actually, they started the Avianca Airlines. But, you know, former German pilots, they started a. Because in Colombia, the three miles, you know, you couldn't, there weren't any roads going over the mountains. You had to go down to the coast, then go back up the valley to get anywhere. You know, a lot of the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, I end each interview by asking whether there's something else that I should have asked about that you wanted to tell a story about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two daughters that were returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, I end each interview by asking whether there's something else that I should have asked about that you wanted to tell a story about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two daughters that were returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Carol, she was in Nicaragua. We went down to visit her and I was very impressed with Nicaragua. And Kimberly was in Niger, in Africa. I can tell you, without a doubt, I never would have survived. I mean, she was living in a mud hut a couple hours outside of the capital city. We had to take a two-hour bush taxi out there and we stopped in the middle of nowhere. And where's the village? Oh, we got to walk another\n\nhalf mile in. You know, we get there. And because we're the rock stars now and there's only one seat in the village and they insist that I have to sit in the seat. I kept trying to give it to Kay. They wouldn't. I had to sit. And they say to Kimberly, your parents must be hungry. So they sent one of the kids to go track down a chicken, grab one of the chickens. And by the time we leave, the chicken. Kimberly, she doesn't cook, and we go to her place and it's a mud hut. And it's got to, it's about half the size of this room, it's the front end. There's a fenced area around it. And it was a kid in the village whose job was to keep the goats out of her area. Anyway, he comes to the gate and we're sitting there talking, and Kimberly has something. She calls the kid in and she puts the kid behind him, and she's got the mirror and she's got to. He knows it's Kimberly in the mirror. He has no clue who the other person in the mirror is. I just was blown away. I said, this is unreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was much more recent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two daughters that were returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Carol, she was in Nicaragua. We went down to visit her and I was very impressed with Nicaragua. And Kimberly was in Niger, in Africa. I can tell you, without a doubt, I never would have survived. I mean, she was living in a mud hut a couple hours outside of the capital city. We had to take a two-hour bush taxi out there and we stopped in the middle of nowhere. And where's the village? Oh, we got to walk another\n\nhalf mile in. You know, we get there. And because we're the rock stars now and there's only one seat in the village and they insist that I have to sit in the seat. I kept trying to give it to Kay. They wouldn't. I had to sit. And they say to Kimberly, your parents must be hungry. So they sent one of the kids to go track down a chicken, grab one of the chickens. And by the time we leave, the chicken. Kimberly, she doesn't cook, and we go to her place and it's a mud hut. And it's got to, it's about half the size of this room, it's the front end. There's a fenced area around it. And it was a kid in the village whose job was to keep the goats out of her area. Anyway, he comes to the gate and we're sitting there talking, and Kimberly has something. She calls the kid in and she puts the kid behind him, and she's got the mirror and she's got to. He knows it's Kimberly in the mirror. He has no clue who the other person in the mirror is. I just was blown away. I said, this is unreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was much more recent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We each have our different experiences, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Carol, she was in Nicaragua. We went down to visit her and I was very impressed with Nicaragua. And Kimberly was in Niger, in Africa. I can tell you, without a doubt, I never would have survived. I mean, she was living in a mud hut a couple hours outside of the capital city. We had to take a two-hour bush taxi out there and we stopped in the middle of nowhere. And where's the village? Oh, we got to walk another\n\nhalf mile in. You know, we get there. And because we're the rock stars now and there's only one seat in the village and they insist that I have to sit in the seat. I kept trying to give it to Kay. They wouldn't. I had to sit. And they say to Kimberly, your parents must be hungry. So they sent one of the kids to go track down a chicken, grab one of the chickens. And by the time we leave, the chicken. Kimberly, she doesn't cook, and we go to her place and it's a mud hut. And it's got to, it's about half the size of this room, it's the front end. There's a fenced area around it. And it was a kid in the village whose job was to keep the goats out of her area. Anyway, he comes to the gate and we're sitting there talking, and Kimberly has something. She calls the kid in and she puts the kid behind him, and she's got the mirror and she's got to. He knows it's Kimberly in the mirror. He has no clue who the other person in the mirror is. I just was blown away. I said, this is unreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was much more recent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We each have our different experiences, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know. I never would have made it in this Niger, I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it through Outward Bound in Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We each have our different experiences, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know. I never would have made it in this Niger, I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it through Outward Bound in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you probably would have made it in Niger."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00159:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know. I never would have made it in this Niger, I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it through Outward Bound in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you probably would have made it in Niger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm convinced I never would have done it. I have so much respect and pride in my daughter that she could do that. That's incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there's another whole interview about how the experiences were different, but I don't think we'll do that right now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.2681942214539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that Avro Arrow there [gestures], that was what I went to Canada to do. That was a very advanced plane, and I think if everything had been all right, I may have been a Canadian by now instead of an American; I don’t know. [Laughs] But there was a whole bunch of us that came down that used to be called Canadians. Not all really Canadians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you grouped together, like the Germans were grouped together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did that for a while. Most of us went and got our naturalization at the same time. For some reason it took me six years rather than five. I can’t understand why, but we got through that. No, I haven’t regretted the decision I made when I left Canada, the option of going back to England or coming on Space [Task Group], because this has been a real exciting time. It’s always been on the forward edge of something.\\n\\n I think Space Station—I liked the original one, the Space Station Freedom. It was pretty well advanced at the time, and I think McDonnell Douglas was doing a good job. It’s very interesting to me—you might like as a sideline—I became a contractor when I worked with McDonnell Douglas. I could see the other side of the story, how NASA puts the pressure on the contractors. I had to write a report, you know, the constant reporting in and all that kind of stuff, and making sure that we got good marks and all that kind of stuff. Many a time I thought, well, this is interesting. The things that I took for granted when I was with NASA for thirty years, the way the contractors have to respond to NASA are sometimes a pretty bad relationship, but not always. So we did pretty well. I did enjoy seeing it from the other side. Are you all contractors?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you have reports to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She [Rebecca Wright] does. We don’t. We let her work on this.\\n\\n ROWLAND"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.075771357171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did that for a while. Most of us went and got our naturalization at the same time. For some reason it took me six years rather than five. I can’t understand why, but we got through that. No, I haven’t regretted the decision I made when I left Canada, the option of going back to England or coming on Space [Task Group], because this has been a real exciting time. It’s always been on the forward edge of something.\\n\\n I think Space Station—I liked the original one, the Space Station Freedom. It was pretty well advanced at the time, and I think McDonnell Douglas was doing a good job. It’s very interesting to me—you might like as a sideline—I became a contractor when I worked with McDonnell Douglas. I could see the other side of the story, how NASA puts the pressure on the contractors. I had to write a report, you know, the constant reporting in and all that kind of stuff, and making sure that we got good marks and all that kind of stuff. Many a time I thought, well, this is interesting. The things that I took for granted when I was with NASA for thirty years, the way the contractors have to respond to NASA are sometimes a pretty bad relationship, but not always. So we did pretty well. I did enjoy seeing it from the other side. Are you all contractors?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you have reports to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She [Rebecca Wright] does. We don’t. We let her work on this.\\n\\n ROWLAND"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the one I was thinking about. There’s a couple targets in there, but I don’t think—\n\nIt’s a model of that thing over there, that picture in National Geographic. It shows how the ceramic cloth—that’s the unique part of that thing. It’s a cloth bumper rather than a metallic bumper. It makes a big difference.\\n\\n You have more questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but I’m interested in hearing—your son wanted to add a quick—\\n\\n ROWLAND"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.973079285745555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you have reports to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She [Rebecca Wright] does. We don’t. We let her work on this.\\n\\n ROWLAND"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the one I was thinking about. There’s a couple targets in there, but I don’t think—\n\nIt’s a model of that thing over there, that picture in National Geographic. It shows how the ceramic cloth—that’s the unique part of that thing. It’s a cloth bumper rather than a metallic bumper. It makes a big difference.\\n\\n You have more questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but I’m interested in hearing—your son wanted to add a quick—\\n\\n ROWLAND"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just a funny little side story. When he did his convention talk down in Galveston, my kids went along to see the display and all that kind of stuff. They were all kind of laughing when they saw the actual invention as it was set up there. They were kind of like, “Well, Granddad, we could have done this in the garage ourselves.” It looked like a few pieces of metal in a row there. Then they grew to understand that the invention happened to be the math that went behind how thick each piece had to be and how far apart everything had to be. They really didn’t catch on until the National Geographic thing, then all of a sudden they realized that he was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took a lot of work, yes, I’m sure.\\n\\n ROWLAND"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.08119920638395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the one I was thinking about. There’s a couple targets in there, but I don’t think—\n\nIt’s a model of that thing over there, that picture in National Geographic. It shows how the ceramic cloth—that’s the unique part of that thing. It’s a cloth bumper rather than a metallic bumper. It makes a big difference.\\n\\n You have more questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but I’m interested in hearing—your son wanted to add a quick—\\n\\n ROWLAND"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just a funny little side story. When he did his convention talk down in Galveston, my kids went along to see the display and all that kind of stuff. They were all kind of laughing when they saw the actual invention as it was set up there. They were kind of like, “Well, Granddad, we could have done this in the garage ourselves.” It looked like a few pieces of metal in a row there. Then they grew to understand that the invention happened to be the math that went behind how thick each piece had to be and how far apart everything had to be. They really didn’t catch on until the National Geographic thing, then all of a sudden they realized that he was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took a lot of work, yes, I’m sure.\\n\\n ROWLAND"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now they argue about who got his brains. [Laughs]\n\nWell, I was just fortunate that I was in on the beginning of it all and learned from ground zero, because nobody was offering courses in this stuff at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you about the Space Shuttle. Did the meteoroid field or orbital debris field change as a result of using this reusable spacecraft?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.320401630000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically Langley. Langley, Marshall, and ourselves, and, yes, KSC, too. I think we worked pretty well. Let’s see. I think it was Langley that provided the aircraft that would fly through the plumes. So they were in a field in which we sort of—we owed them that. They had the means of detection and they could tell us what they found. Marshall was into what we called modeling the plume. They had a couple of people over there who were expert in that field. Our job, from the Manned Spacecraft Center point of view, was to ensure that we were funding the right things to look at. Then KSC would tell us about the bees and the orange groves and other things that could be harmed, manatees and stuff like that.\\n\\n So I guess it was a collaborative effect, because each one was doing their own thing. There was no competition in that sense, except that occasionally we would question the results, because if you’re going to spend money on it, you do that kind of stuff.\\n\\n The Tropospheric Project, mine was primarily, management of resources and things like that, and making sure that JSC’s concerns would meet with—see, our own engineering group over here didn’t want to be stopped by any of these things, so we were caught in the middle. But it was a very collaborative event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it last for an extended period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sense of time has disappeared, but you put a time frame on this and it’s interesting to me that I was there three years. It says here ’74 to ’78. Four years in that group. It lasted four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you and your group moved from Ellington to Building 31, and you said the building was specially designed so you could use the gun. Did you have input on how that building needed to be designed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share more about how that building was designed for your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 9.244890700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sense of time has disappeared, but you put a time frame on this and it’s interesting to me that I was there three years. It says here ’74 to ’78. Four years in that group. It lasted four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you and your group moved from Ellington to Building 31, and you said the building was specially designed so you could use the gun. Did you have input on how that building needed to be designed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share more about how that building was designed for your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The building was just a normal office building, but on the lab side, we had the experience from General Motors Defense Research Lab. They were firing some toxic stuff. If you fired cadmium or anything like that, it gives off a very poisonous gas, so you had to have these huge extractor fans. We didn’t know whether we were going to do anything toxic or not, but based on what we saw at General Motors in Santa Barbara, we decided we’d better have huge fans in the ceiling to exhaust any toxic gases we might have.\\n\\n We knew that there was an explosive risk on the gun and, therefore, nobody could be in that room when it was fired, so we had to have the control panels outside a concrete wall. So it was designed so that the gun would be remotely fired, everybody out of the way. The third thing they did was to ensure that if there was a massive explosion, that the roof would have some venting. So it was tailored in that sense to be a gun lab.\\n\\n I don’t know if you know 31; it’s at the far end of 31. It sort of lies across the back there. I don’t know what they’ve done with it now. So we did have those kind of inputs, mainly based on what we’d seen on the West Coast. They’d had the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My last question is, could you tell us how you chose the peninsula of Canyon Lake to first do your observation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9683000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we needed clear skies and we couldn’t find anything in Houston. At that time, I thought to myself, “Well, it should be pretty dry and nice out there in Southwest Texas, wherever we are.” But we didn’t get too many bad nights, but we had some few bad nights.\\n\\n But the peninsula over there [gestures] was the [U.S. Army] Corps of Engineers, they were, I guess, working with the dam, and we could stow our equipment over there. It was just nothing like now. There were no houses. It was pitch black, and just ideal to sit on the hillside up there. We all had these recliners, deck chairs, and the recording van. So several of the people—two of those who just drove away from [the house]. They were students at [Texas State University] San Marcos [San Marcos, Texas] at the time—they would come out and help us spend the night looking for meteors.\\n\\n The machine was what was doing the tracking. It was taking a spectrograph of the incoming projectile or meteor, so we could analyze what it was made of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group that would come out to observe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was the lab technician, who drove the van with the thing on it. There was myself and one other guy. The three of us, and anybody who wanted to join in, like those two guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would just spend the night, one night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, several nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you come out to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1870000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was the lab technician, who drove the van with the thing on it. There was myself and one other guy. The three of us, and anybody who wanted to join in, like those two guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would just spend the night, one night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, several nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you come out to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe two or three times a year. You’ve probably heard of the meteor showers that we get. That was the best time to come, when there was a predicted shower, because then we’d have a chance of seeing more meteors. So we would come during that time. There still is over there, a motel on that side of the lake where we could spend—it was very cheap at that time. You could cook your own food and all that kind of stuff. There was one little grocery store where you could buy steaks and things like that. So we could spend several nights there. But it was a disappointment in the fact that it wasn’t always clear skies. You really had to go further west. But that’s when I got to know Canyon Lake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you chose to come back here to live."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, several nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you come out to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe two or three times a year. You’ve probably heard of the meteor showers that we get. That was the best time to come, when there was a predicted shower, because then we’d have a chance of seeing more meteors. So we would come during that time. There still is over there, a motel on that side of the lake where we could spend—it was very cheap at that time. You could cook your own food and all that kind of stuff. There was one little grocery store where you could buy steaks and things like that. So we could spend several nights there. But it was a disappointment in the fact that it wasn’t always clear skies. You really had to go further west. But that’s when I got to know Canyon Lake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you chose to come back here to live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After I joined McDonnell Douglas—apparently it happens to somebody who’s retired after a long time—I got a bad case of shingles. Anyway, I was recuperating here with some friends and we just decided that this was better than—it just seemed like it was right. The lake is pretty. I don’t do any fishing. I don’t do boating. I do nothing except sit and look at it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good pastime to me.\n\nDo you think there’s anything else we need to cover that we haven’t gone over today, that we may have overlooked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After I joined McDonnell Douglas—apparently it happens to somebody who’s retired after a long time—I got a bad case of shingles. Anyway, I was recuperating here with some friends and we just decided that this was better than—it just seemed like it was right. The lake is pretty. I don’t do any fishing. I don’t do boating. I do nothing except sit and look at it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good pastime to me.\n\nDo you think there’s anything else we need to cover that we haven’t gone over today, that we may have overlooked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you get these dates and things from my bio?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they don’t mention that I was Branch Chief there? Because that, to me, is an important part of my life over there. I’d like to see that included."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and that will be. We’ll send you a copy of the bio sheet that’s going online and that’s going to be archived."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00117:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you get these dates and things from my bio?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they don’t mention that I was Branch Chief there? Because that, to me, is an important part of my life over there. I’d like to see that included."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and that will be. We’ll send you a copy of the bio sheet that’s going online and that’s going to be archived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that was significant was the fact of being the Subsystem Manager for Meteoroid Protection for Apollo. They have subsystem managers for all kinds of things, and it was one that definitely caused me to have to really keep on my toes, because I was responsible to them. It was not just fooling-around research. That, too, is a significant title that I had in there.\\n\\n Otherwise, I can’t think of anything else at the moment. Settling down in Texas was difficult at the beginning. I thought we were all going to go to [Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt] Maryland from Space Task Group originally, but we got down here and it took us several years to get acclimatized, but I think we enjoyed it; still do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We very much enjoyed hearing your stories today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00522:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.614860724538993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the name. You called yourselves the Thirty-Five New Guys. Who decided to come up with that and the T-shirt design?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea. It was interesting to me that the military have a way of organizing themselves. I guess if you’re a POW [Prisoner of War] you’re supposed to know how to get organized. At our first Monday morning meeting Rick [Frederick H.] Hauck stood up and said, “After the meeting breaks up if the 35 of us could get together.” Okay. He stood up and he said, “If no one has any objections, I’ll sort of be the leader of our class.”\\n\\n Us nonmilitary folks were going, “Who are you, to just take over like that?” Again we were not going to say anything for fear of looking stupid, but apparently in the military the guy with the highest rank takes over as the leader so we learned that later on. What was your question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was asking about the Thirty-Five New Guys and who came up with the shirt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somehow and I don’t even remember how it happened, we had to have a group name, or somebody felt like we ought to have a group name. I guess in the military it’s the freaking new guy, the FNG is the new guy that’s stupid and doesn’t know anything. We got to be the TFNG. It was a play on the military term for dumb people, or new people anyway. That’s how we got the name. We had our T-shirts, we had our mugs, and we had everything. We were the TFNGs. We referred to ourselves as the TFNGs. We referred to those other people as the old guys. They didn’t like that, the old guys or the TFNGs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things—as I was looking over your biosheet—I didn’t see it on there, but it was on some research that we had pulled. You had worked on the food system initially when you came. Were you working with Rita [M.] Rapp and some of the other people in that organization?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00522:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 36.001897956847685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The little square plastic containers. You put the water in with the tea bag, and you let it brew for however long you want. Then they made a double-ended straw that had two of the connectors that went into the container. We would just squeeze out the tea from the brewed cup into the new empty cup, and then discard the connector and the old tea bag box, and put a straw in our decanted tea, Jeff and I called it, our tea ceremony. The food system people were excited about flying in space the way we were. Their food flew in space, and they wanted us to be happy with that food.\\n\\n A lot of people complained about the food but never tried the food. They just said it wasn’t good when they got there. They’d find out that some people need a lot of spices in their food; they put hot sauce on everything. There were things that we didn’t like but we didn’t have to take those. I enjoyed working with the food folks the whole time I was at NASA.\\n\\n When I made my flights where my nutrition was important, my last two flights, they wanted to be very good about making sure that we maintained our food intake and our vitamin and mineral intake. We had to measure everything. We worked really hard on, “What will I eat? What does it contain? I’m going to work hard to eat everything that I’m supposed to eat, because that’s normal. All these tests being done on me won’t be affected by the fact that I’m starving, that I ate too much sugar, or that I ate too much food.” I worked with the food folks the whole time I was there and enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I’ve seen a recipe from you in Charles’s cookbook [The Astronaut’s Cookbook: Tales, Recipes, and More]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In his cookbook, yes. I was one of the people he wrote, and that’s a good recipe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven’t tried it yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My aunt Alice, my grandfather’s sister, that’s her recipe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about testing the food on the KC-135. What did that involve?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00522:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.630282119793463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your hours like at SAIL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit crazy. SAIL ran around the clock most of the time, doing the testing. Sometimes you worked night shift, sometimes day shift. At the time I didn’t have kids, didn’t make any difference whether I worked 7:00 to 3:00 or 3:00 to 11:00 or 11:00 to 7:00. Just tell me what I need to do, and I’ll plan the rest of my life around the job assignment. It was probably a good time to have that job assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other astronauts working in SAIL with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a whole group of us assigned to SAIL. Hoot was one. I don’t remember who the others were. Seems like Mike Mullane in his book talks about me being very pregnant and flying the Shuttle in SAIL. I guess he was over there at the same time. I don’t remember all the people, because we for the most part kind of worked alone. A very complex system, and a great way to get to know both the software and the hardware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they let the MSs [Mission Specialists] fly the Shuttle in SAIL?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00522:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.255869021992737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit crazy. SAIL ran around the clock most of the time, doing the testing. Sometimes you worked night shift, sometimes day shift. At the time I didn’t have kids, didn’t make any difference whether I worked 7:00 to 3:00 or 3:00 to 11:00 or 11:00 to 7:00. Just tell me what I need to do, and I’ll plan the rest of my life around the job assignment. It was probably a good time to have that job assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other astronauts working in SAIL with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a whole group of us assigned to SAIL. Hoot was one. I don’t remember who the others were. Seems like Mike Mullane in his book talks about me being very pregnant and flying the Shuttle in SAIL. I guess he was over there at the same time. I don’t remember all the people, because we for the most part kind of worked alone. A very complex system, and a great way to get to know both the software and the hardware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they let the MSs [Mission Specialists] fly the Shuttle in SAIL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Just fly where the needles tell you to go and you can pretend like you’re flying down. That wasn’t part of what they were testing, obviously. They were just looking at the systems that supported it, but it gave you the opportunity to pretend to be the commander of the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s cool. You also mentioned in your biosheet that you worked on Orbiter and payload software. Was that different from working in the SAIL? Or was that the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.15610283823654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s perfectly fine, I’m glad to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking through the transcript from last time. One of the things we hadn’t talked about was the fact that you were being selected to be an astronaut wife, but you were from a military family, and I know the military doesn’t pay very well, and you had a large family. I wonder if that was a concern for you, or an issue for you, being selected as an astronaut wife. I think you mentioned to us you had to go to the Indy 500. Maybe you were invited to a lot of events. Were you concerned at all or worried about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About money? Is that what you’re talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Or dress. Yes. But people don’t like to talk about money. It’s a sore subject for some people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a concern?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.062336486929485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About money? Is that what you’re talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Or dress. Yes. But people don’t like to talk about money. It’s a sore subject for some people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a concern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I’m hearing is was the fact that we were going to continue to live on military pay a concern. We weren’t getting anything extra from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was it a concern? Some of the wives, for instance, went to the White House. Some of them went to these big galas, these events. Were you expecting the same thing? Were you concerned that you would have to buy these type of outfits, and where were you going to find the funds?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.291484985477204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a concern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I’m hearing is was the fact that we were going to continue to live on military pay a concern. We weren’t getting anything extra from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was it a concern? Some of the wives, for instance, went to the White House. Some of them went to these big galas, these events. Were you expecting the same thing? Were you concerned that you would have to buy these type of outfits, and where were you going to find the funds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I made them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you made them, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 32.546094428308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I’m hearing is was the fact that we were going to continue to live on military pay a concern. We weren’t getting anything extra from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was it a concern? Some of the wives, for instance, went to the White House. Some of them went to these big galas, these events. Were you expecting the same thing? Were you concerned that you would have to buy these type of outfits, and where were you going to find the funds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I made them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you made them, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made my own things. I made a lot of the girls’ clothes too when they were little. But I was delighted, actually, because I’d get a chance to dress up, and wear the things.\\n\\n What I would do is I would go to the Vogue Pattern Book and get the most simple pattern I could find, simple and elegant, and then I’d buy a really elegant fabric and make my own dresses. I really got a lot of compliments on them. So that didn’t bother me. We did share a little bit in the Time-Life World Book contract, the last couple of years. We got a little share of that. So no, it never occurred to me that money was going to be a problem, and it really wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you got to go to the Indy 500. Were there other events that really stood out in your mind that you got to go to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.670773400865722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I don’t know anybody who sewed much, but I sure did. I had one wife tell me recently that she couldn’t wait to see what I was going to wear to the next party. Anyway, that’s an answer to your question, it really wasn’t a concern. We had a big house here and we lived in government quarters before that, which were not very large or very nice. In fact, one was called Splinterville, which was an apt description of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of car did you lease?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A station wagon, what else?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking you’ve got to have big car for as many kids as you had. You didn’t lease the Corvette."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. He leased a Ford Cobra, and I got to drive that once in a while. He had a neat little ’53 MG TD that he’d restored, and I liked to drive that too. That was fun. It didn’t hold any kids, but that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s probably why you enjoyed it so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.856414889850802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A station wagon, what else?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking you’ve got to have big car for as many kids as you had. You didn’t lease the Corvette."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. He leased a Ford Cobra, and I got to drive that once in a while. He had a neat little ’53 MG TD that he’d restored, and I liked to drive that too. That was fun. It didn’t hold any kids, but that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s probably why you enjoyed it so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the kids when you would go to some of these galas? Was Jennifer old enough to watch the pack?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.729349877612002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. He leased a Ford Cobra, and I got to drive that once in a while. He had a neat little ’53 MG TD that he’d restored, and I liked to drive that too. That was fun. It didn’t hold any kids, but that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s probably why you enjoyed it so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the kids when you would go to some of these galas? Was Jennifer old enough to watch the pack?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at first, no, she wasn’t at first. Some of the secretaries from the Astronaut Office would volunteer to babysit for us, and we got by with that quite a lot. There weren’t really any neighbor kids that were that age. They were all our kids’ age; they were all young. Jennifer didn’t start babysitting until she was about 14, I think, and then she was a good babysitter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet she was quite popular."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.699277641791113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the kids when you would go to some of these galas? Was Jennifer old enough to watch the pack?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at first, no, she wasn’t at first. Some of the secretaries from the Astronaut Office would volunteer to babysit for us, and we got by with that quite a lot. There weren’t really any neighbor kids that were that age. They were all our kids’ age; they were all young. Jennifer didn’t start babysitting until she was about 14, I think, and then she was a good babysitter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet she was quite popular."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk about your husband’s mission. We talked a little bit about it last time. I wondered what you thought when Jerry [Gerald P. Carr] came home and told you he’d been selected to command the final Skylab flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.554752935323458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at first, no, she wasn’t at first. Some of the secretaries from the Astronaut Office would volunteer to babysit for us, and we got by with that quite a lot. There weren’t really any neighbor kids that were that age. They were all our kids’ age; they were all young. Jennifer didn’t start babysitting until she was about 14, I think, and then she was a good babysitter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet she was quite popular."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk about your husband’s mission. We talked a little bit about it last time. I wondered what you thought when Jerry [Gerald P. Carr] came home and told you he’d been selected to command the final Skylab flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a real charge, because we’d been told his flight was canceled, and it was. He had an Apollo flight he was assigned to. I don’t know whether it was 18 or 19, but he was assigned to one of those, and then the last three were canceled. So all we knew for quite a while was that here we’d been slaving away for six years, and there wasn’t going to be anything for him. That was a bitter pill to swallow. When he came home with this, we were thrilled that he was finally going to get a flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did his hours change at all when he was named to command?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.505281039248286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk about your husband’s mission. We talked a little bit about it last time. I wondered what you thought when Jerry [Gerald P. Carr] came home and told you he’d been selected to command the final Skylab flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a real charge, because we’d been told his flight was canceled, and it was. He had an Apollo flight he was assigned to. I don’t know whether it was 18 or 19, but he was assigned to one of those, and then the last three were canceled. So all we knew for quite a while was that here we’d been slaving away for six years, and there wasn’t going to be anything for him. That was a bitter pill to swallow. When he came home with this, we were thrilled that he was finally going to get a flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did his hours change at all when he was named to command?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it seemed like they were pretty steady from the time we got here until the time we left. They were busy. They were very busy. It wasn’t much different from when he was just supporting other flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve actually read that you had to stand in for him quite a bit at Jeff’s track meets."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.56142337694254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a real charge, because we’d been told his flight was canceled, and it was. He had an Apollo flight he was assigned to. I don’t know whether it was 18 or 19, but he was assigned to one of those, and then the last three were canceled. So all we knew for quite a while was that here we’d been slaving away for six years, and there wasn’t going to be anything for him. That was a bitter pill to swallow. When he came home with this, we were thrilled that he was finally going to get a flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did his hours change at all when he was named to command?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it seemed like they were pretty steady from the time we got here until the time we left. They were busy. They were very busy. It wasn’t much different from when he was just supporting other flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve actually read that you had to stand in for him quite a bit at Jeff’s track meets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeff’s track meet, yes. I said, “I don’t know how to do this,” to the guy that was standing next to me, so he told me. He said, “You just press this. When they come across the line, you press this.” I didn’t do a whole lot of that, but he didn’t do a whole lot of it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked with Gratia [Lousma], we went up to Kerrville in the middle of July and had a chance to talk to her."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.73491486326949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it seemed like they were pretty steady from the time we got here until the time we left. They were busy. They were very busy. It wasn’t much different from when he was just supporting other flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve actually read that you had to stand in for him quite a bit at Jeff’s track meets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeff’s track meet, yes. I said, “I don’t know how to do this,” to the guy that was standing next to me, so he told me. He said, “You just press this. When they come across the line, you press this.” I didn’t do a whole lot of that, but he didn’t do a whole lot of it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked with Gratia [Lousma], we went up to Kerrville in the middle of July and had a chance to talk to her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was telling us about a support group that she helped form with Terry McGuire, but I wasn’t sure on the dates for that. Was that something that was established when you were still in the Office?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.816572070299433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeff’s track meet, yes. I said, “I don’t know how to do this,” to the guy that was standing next to me, so he told me. He said, “You just press this. When they come across the line, you press this.” I didn’t do a whole lot of that, but he didn’t do a whole lot of it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked with Gratia [Lousma], we went up to Kerrville in the middle of July and had a chance to talk to her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was telling us about a support group that she helped form with Terry McGuire, but I wasn’t sure on the dates for that. Was that something that was established when you were still in the Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Terry McGuire for a little while on our own. But to tell you the truth, Terry McGuire is a career military man. What do you think the job of a career military doctor is? To keep the men in the air and to keep the wives quiet. So I didn’t care for his counseling. I didn’t go very much after our first few times, because it seemed to me like I was all excited over going to law school and he made me feel like I should be staying home with the kids.\\n\\n I thought, “I’m not coming back to you anymore. You want me to be Doris Day, find somebody else.” Gratia loved him, and she still does. He had a group of women that went to him as a group, and they all seemed to really get something out of it and enjoy it. So it was just my attitude I guess that soured the relationship with Terry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a different place. Gratia was staying at home with the kids, and you wanted to move on and not be a homemaker anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.018413411443815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was telling us about a support group that she helped form with Terry McGuire, but I wasn’t sure on the dates for that. Was that something that was established when you were still in the Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Terry McGuire for a little while on our own. But to tell you the truth, Terry McGuire is a career military man. What do you think the job of a career military doctor is? To keep the men in the air and to keep the wives quiet. So I didn’t care for his counseling. I didn’t go very much after our first few times, because it seemed to me like I was all excited over going to law school and he made me feel like I should be staying home with the kids.\\n\\n I thought, “I’m not coming back to you anymore. You want me to be Doris Day, find somebody else.” Gratia loved him, and she still does. He had a group of women that went to him as a group, and they all seemed to really get something out of it and enjoy it. So it was just my attitude I guess that soured the relationship with Terry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a different place. Gratia was staying at home with the kids, and you wanted to move on and not be a homemaker anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s my opinion of Terry McGuire as a psychiatrist. I don’t even know if he was a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I figured that he got paid by the military, and so he worked for the military. As far as I was concerned, he was not my friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense. I think when we were at the church you talked about briefly how NASA and the wives were doing a disservice to the children of Apollo because they didn’t bring up issues that their children were having or concerns that you were facing because they were so concerned about the flight, the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.662692698341738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eisele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I thought. Where do you think that this image came from? Do you think you all were reading Life magazine and had seen the spreads and therefore made that assumption about the families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The fact that most of them were military was for me, and I think—I don’t know if all military wives, I can’t speak for that broad of a group. I think we looked at that and we thought, “Wow, they’re finally going to get to do something really wonderful with what they’ve learned and what they’ve done and what we’ve put up with. We’re going to benefit from that too.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious if you came up with that idea of the families and the wives based on Life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was based on Life and what we were seeing in the media, because we didn’t have any other information. At least some of us didn’t. I think some of them already knew some of the guys that were already here, and so they probably talked to them. I thought it was going to be a great adventure all the way round, to go to the Moon or to Mars for that matter. I thought we would maybe be going to Mars by the time he was kicked off his flight. I thought we would be on our way to Mars. I hope I live long enough to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If [President Donald J.] Trump has his way, he’s pushing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.84743633149082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The fact that most of them were military was for me, and I think—I don’t know if all military wives, I can’t speak for that broad of a group. I think we looked at that and we thought, “Wow, they’re finally going to get to do something really wonderful with what they’ve learned and what they’ve done and what we’ve put up with. We’re going to benefit from that too.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious if you came up with that idea of the families and the wives based on Life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was based on Life and what we were seeing in the media, because we didn’t have any other information. At least some of us didn’t. I think some of them already knew some of the guys that were already here, and so they probably talked to them. I thought it was going to be a great adventure all the way round, to go to the Moon or to Mars for that matter. I thought we would maybe be going to Mars by the time he was kicked off his flight. I thought we would be on our way to Mars. I hope I live long enough to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If [President Donald J.] Trump has his way, he’s pushing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or Elon Musk, some of those other guys. I noticed that there was a photograph that NASA has of your family. I assume it was taken around the time that your ex-husband was selected to command Skylab. Was that normal? It’s a photo of you two in front of your fireplace, and all your children, and I think a cat and a dog."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.052707034989801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was based on Life and what we were seeing in the media, because we didn’t have any other information. At least some of us didn’t. I think some of them already knew some of the guys that were already here, and so they probably talked to them. I thought it was going to be a great adventure all the way round, to go to the Moon or to Mars for that matter. I thought we would maybe be going to Mars by the time he was kicked off his flight. I thought we would be on our way to Mars. I hope I live long enough to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If [President Donald J.] Trump has his way, he’s pushing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or Elon Musk, some of those other guys. I noticed that there was a photograph that NASA has of your family. I assume it was taken around the time that your ex-husband was selected to command Skylab. Was that normal? It’s a photo of you two in front of your fireplace, and all your children, and I think a cat and a dog."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A cat and a dog, yes. No, that wasn’t when we were selected. That was after we’d been here for a good while, because Jennifer was 16 or something, when that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her hair looks pretty long."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.391896705544223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or Elon Musk, some of those other guys. I noticed that there was a photograph that NASA has of your family. I assume it was taken around the time that your ex-husband was selected to command Skylab. Was that normal? It’s a photo of you two in front of your fireplace, and all your children, and I think a cat and a dog."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A cat and a dog, yes. No, that wasn’t when we were selected. That was after we’d been here for a good while, because Jennifer was 16 or something, when that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her hair looks pretty long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it must have been taken before his flight. I really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that pretty normal just to advertise these family men, they’d draw up these releases?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.87988522838247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A cat and a dog, yes. No, that wasn’t when we were selected. That was after we’d been here for a good while, because Jennifer was 16 or something, when that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her hair looks pretty long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it must have been taken before his flight. I really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that pretty normal just to advertise these family men, they’d draw up these releases?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never questioned it. I never thought about it really, what they were for. They just wanted to come and take pictures so they came and took pictures.\\n\\n [Break in interview]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about that photograph that NASA had that was taken probably before Jerry flew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.533205809313856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it must have been taken before his flight. I really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that pretty normal just to advertise these family men, they’d draw up these releases?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never questioned it. I never thought about it really, what they were for. They just wanted to come and take pictures so they came and took pictures.\\n\\n [Break in interview]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about that photograph that NASA had that was taken probably before Jerry flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before he flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I thought was interesting, with the animals."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.370228677015394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never questioned it. I never thought about it really, what they were for. They just wanted to come and take pictures so they came and took pictures.\\n\\n [Break in interview]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about that photograph that NASA had that was taken probably before Jerry flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before he flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I thought was interesting, with the animals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a neat picture. I love that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great photo of all the kids."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.18914297446155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before he flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I thought was interesting, with the animals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a neat picture. I love that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great photo of all the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in a magazine that I think the Galveston newspaper puts out once a month. [Link: https://www.coastmonthly.com/eedition/2019/07/index_50.html#page=1] They put out a glossy magazine. That picture was in there last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to bring it. I forgot.\n\nI forgot it. You gave it to me, and I forgot it. It is on my desk. I’ll have to bring it to you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.099047749401723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a neat picture. I love that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great photo of all the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in a magazine that I think the Galveston newspaper puts out once a month. [Link: https://www.coastmonthly.com/eedition/2019/07/index_50.html#page=1] They put out a glossy magazine. That picture was in there last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to bring it. I forgot.\n\nI forgot it. You gave it to me, and I forgot it. It is on my desk. I’ll have to bring it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then there’s another one of us in there on the next page that’s taken at splashdown. We’re all sitting all around and my kids all have a glass of champagne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hey, it was his flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.221164166001916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in a magazine that I think the Galveston newspaper puts out once a month. [Link: https://www.coastmonthly.com/eedition/2019/07/index_50.html#page=1] They put out a glossy magazine. That picture was in there last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to bring it. I forgot.\n\nI forgot it. You gave it to me, and I forgot it. It is on my desk. I’ll have to bring it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then there’s another one of us in there on the next page that’s taken at splashdown. We’re all sitting all around and my kids all have a glass of champagne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hey, it was his flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s worse things in the world. How did you make sure that your kids understood what was happening with Skylab, what your husband would be doing? They were much older now, so they had the capability of understanding."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.881975561655103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Who said that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was John that I had read that about. I was curious why that was the case."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a children’s docudrama on Saturday mornings on NBC, and they did all sorts of different things. It was a children’s program, and one of the things they did was they followed John around. They went to school with him. The half-hour show was basically more about John, while his dad was flying. If a security person went to school with him because of that, I’m not aware of it. I don’t know what he’s talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just stood out when I read that. I thought that’s very unusual, that there would be a security detail for a child."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I have to ask him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s really interesting how you mentioned you wanted to include your kids. So you had seen what the other wives had gone through for Apollo, and you noticed that the kids were just left out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.757750624061227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a children’s docudrama on Saturday mornings on NBC, and they did all sorts of different things. It was a children’s program, and one of the things they did was they followed John around. They went to school with him. The half-hour show was basically more about John, while his dad was flying. If a security person went to school with him because of that, I’m not aware of it. I don’t know what he’s talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just stood out when I read that. I thought that’s very unusual, that there would be a security detail for a child."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I have to ask him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s really interesting how you mentioned you wanted to include your kids. So you had seen what the other wives had gone through for Apollo, and you noticed that the kids were just left out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed to me like the kids were kind of pushed to the back a little bit. That was just observing what was going on during the flights. I don’t remember anything specific. It was just a general feeling that I had, that the kids really didn’t get included in very much. I included mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did NASA think about that? Did you tell them that this was your plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.16669312615155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and that surprises me, because it was kind of like being in a squadron, and you got the CO’s [commanding officer’s] wife and all of that. The military are pretty good about keeping you aware of your serial number and rank. I thought I would be like the mother hen and I would keep them informed about what was happening, but I didn’t. I didn’t do that. I was totally the Lone Ranger. I didn’t call Julie [Gibson], and I didn’t call Helen [Pogue]. We didn’t see each other very much during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. I thought perhaps you would have. I’ve seen a picture of the Skylab II crew with the [antique] car, they seem to be a close group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. We weren’t. I don’t know why exactly except I guess I didn’t take the first steps. I didn’t make the first gesture. I was generally so upset about the way things were going for the crew that I don’t think I wanted to talk to Julie and Helen that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with any of the other Skylab wives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was odd because by the time Jerry flew a lot of the astronauts had left the program. They were all starting to scatter, because his was the last flight except for Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project], and we didn’t know how long it would be before anybody would fly again. People were jumping ship like crazy. Joan Roosa had a luncheon for me, and we didn’t do much else. It was a long flight, and it was over Thanksgiving and Christmas and almost Valentine’s Day. No, we didn’t form a little group, w. We pretty much kept to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though guys were leaving, were you still doing the wives’ club meetings or had that dissipated as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.185214584612833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. We weren’t. I don’t know why exactly except I guess I didn’t take the first steps. I didn’t make the first gesture. I was generally so upset about the way things were going for the crew that I don’t think I wanted to talk to Julie and Helen that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with any of the other Skylab wives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was odd because by the time Jerry flew a lot of the astronauts had left the program. They were all starting to scatter, because his was the last flight except for Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project], and we didn’t know how long it would be before anybody would fly again. People were jumping ship like crazy. Joan Roosa had a luncheon for me, and we didn’t do much else. It was a long flight, and it was over Thanksgiving and Christmas and almost Valentine’s Day. No, we didn’t form a little group, w. We pretty much kept to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though guys were leaving, were you still doing the wives’ club meetings or had that dissipated as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had pretty much gone by the wayside, yes, by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo 17 wrapped up, was that sort of the end of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.20579398290315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was odd because by the time Jerry flew a lot of the astronauts had left the program. They were all starting to scatter, because his was the last flight except for Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project], and we didn’t know how long it would be before anybody would fly again. People were jumping ship like crazy. Joan Roosa had a luncheon for me, and we didn’t do much else. It was a long flight, and it was over Thanksgiving and Christmas and almost Valentine’s Day. No, we didn’t form a little group, w. We pretty much kept to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though guys were leaving, were you still doing the wives’ club meetings or had that dissipated as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had pretty much gone by the wayside, yes, by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo 17 wrapped up, was that sort of the end of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was pretty much the end of it. I don’t know that Gratia had anything going on at her house or that Jane Conrad had anything going on at her house for their husbands’ flights. It just all changed after Apollo 11, and people started bailing out. A lot of the ways we used to do things we weren’t doing anymore. It was a very different flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like things were pretty quiet around here. You mentioned that his flight included major holidays between Thanksgiving and almost Valentine’s Day. What did you think when you heard he was going to be up in space for that long? Or did it really matter to you? You’d been a military wife. He’d been gone for such a long time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.11754886989239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had pretty much gone by the wayside, yes, by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo 17 wrapped up, was that sort of the end of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was pretty much the end of it. I don’t know that Gratia had anything going on at her house or that Jane Conrad had anything going on at her house for their husbands’ flights. It just all changed after Apollo 11, and people started bailing out. A lot of the ways we used to do things we weren’t doing anymore. It was a very different flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like things were pretty quiet around here. You mentioned that his flight included major holidays between Thanksgiving and almost Valentine’s Day. What did you think when you heard he was going to be up in space for that long? Or did it really matter to you? You’d been a military wife. He’d been gone for such a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He’d been in Japan for 13 months. He was in Japan when the last twins were born and they were 11 months old when he got home. That was not any problem for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No impact on the family?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.2417209665471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was pretty much the end of it. I don’t know that Gratia had anything going on at her house or that Jane Conrad had anything going on at her house for their husbands’ flights. It just all changed after Apollo 11, and people started bailing out. A lot of the ways we used to do things we weren’t doing anymore. It was a very different flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like things were pretty quiet around here. You mentioned that his flight included major holidays between Thanksgiving and almost Valentine’s Day. What did you think when you heard he was going to be up in space for that long? Or did it really matter to you? You’d been a military wife. He’d been gone for such a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He’d been in Japan for 13 months. He was in Japan when the last twins were born and they were 11 months old when he got home. That was not any problem for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No impact on the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had our own little group, and we kept up our Christmas rituals. It was just the way things were. We didn’t make a big deal out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the astronauts have to go into quarantine before a mission. Did you have the opportunity to spend time with him and see him as well as your children?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.49080107394122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He’d been in Japan for 13 months. He was in Japan when the last twins were born and they were 11 months old when he got home. That was not any problem for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No impact on the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had our own little group, and we kept up our Christmas rituals. It was just the way things were. We didn’t make a big deal out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the astronauts have to go into quarantine before a mission. Did you have the opportunity to spend time with him and see him as well as your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The children didn’t get to see him. They could see him from afar, but they couldn’t go in and visit with him or talk to him or hug him. The wives could go. We had a big button that said, “I’m a primary contact.” That was the wives. We could go in and see them in their little quarters, but the kids couldn’t. That was for a month, I think. A month before he went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a month. That’s tough."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.767556748823576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had our own little group, and we kept up our Christmas rituals. It was just the way things were. We didn’t make a big deal out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the astronauts have to go into quarantine before a mission. Did you have the opportunity to spend time with him and see him as well as your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The children didn’t get to see him. They could see him from afar, but they couldn’t go in and visit with him or talk to him or hug him. The wives could go. We had a big button that said, “I’m a primary contact.” That was the wives. We could go in and see them in their little quarters, but the kids couldn’t. That was for a month, I think. A month before he went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a month. That’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was long. It was a three-month flight and one month of quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read when he came back he was also under some restrictions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.29728527647064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The children didn’t get to see him. They could see him from afar, but they couldn’t go in and visit with him or talk to him or hug him. The wives could go. We had a big button that said, “I’m a primary contact.” That was the wives. We could go in and see them in their little quarters, but the kids couldn’t. That was for a month, I think. A month before he went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a month. That’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was long. It was a three-month flight and one month of quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read when he came back he was also under some restrictions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was under quarantine. He was under house arrest, because the kids couldn’t be there, just the dog could be there. I never understood that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering what the reasoning was behind that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.10809475163404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was long. It was a three-month flight and one month of quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read when he came back he was also under some restrictions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was under quarantine. He was under house arrest, because the kids couldn’t be there, just the dog could be there. I never understood that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering what the reasoning was behind that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. The dog could be there, but the kids had to leave. They all stayed with friends. It was just for a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he had to acclimate back to gravity. Talk to us about traveling to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] to see the launch of the mission. Did NASA provide you transportation? Or was that something you had to arrange yourselves?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.12010527959338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was under quarantine. He was under house arrest, because the kids couldn’t be there, just the dog could be there. I never understood that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering what the reasoning was behind that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. The dog could be there, but the kids had to leave. They all stayed with friends. It was just for a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he had to acclimate back to gravity. Talk to us about traveling to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] to see the launch of the mission. Did NASA provide you transportation? Or was that something you had to arrange yourselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockwell provided the transportation. I think. Maybe I’m wrong about that. I’ll have to check on that and let you know later. I don’t think that plane we went on was a NASA plane. I’ll have to check on that because I don’t want to be unfair about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the government also provide you transportation when you were around the Cape?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.46678364399264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. The dog could be there, but the kids had to leave. They all stayed with friends. It was just for a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he had to acclimate back to gravity. Talk to us about traveling to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] to see the launch of the mission. Did NASA provide you transportation? Or was that something you had to arrange yourselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockwell provided the transportation. I think. Maybe I’m wrong about that. I’ll have to check on that and let you know later. I don’t think that plane we went on was a NASA plane. I’ll have to check on that because I don’t want to be unfair about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the government also provide you transportation when you were around the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody did, but I don’t think it was the government. I think it was people who owned car dealerships. They were going to supply me with a limousine to go wherever I needed to go and ride around. I told them I wasn’t going to ride around in that limousine, so they wanted to know what I wanted. I said, “You can get me a convertible. Get me a red convertible,” so they did.\\n\\n I managed to squeeze all the kids in there. We went to the store, and we went wherever we wanted to go. I didn’t want to be hauled around in a limousine. That was not the government that did that though. That was just the civilians that lived in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another one of those freebies or perks that you mentioned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.18531515999182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockwell provided the transportation. I think. Maybe I’m wrong about that. I’ll have to check on that and let you know later. I don’t think that plane we went on was a NASA plane. I’ll have to check on that because I don’t want to be unfair about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the government also provide you transportation when you were around the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody did, but I don’t think it was the government. I think it was people who owned car dealerships. They were going to supply me with a limousine to go wherever I needed to go and ride around. I told them I wasn’t going to ride around in that limousine, so they wanted to know what I wanted. I said, “You can get me a convertible. Get me a red convertible,” so they did.\\n\\n I managed to squeeze all the kids in there. We went to the store, and we went wherever we wanted to go. I didn’t want to be hauled around in a limousine. That was not the government that did that though. That was just the civilians that lived in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another one of those freebies or perks that you mentioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, another freebie. Yes, they were really nice to us. They were very good to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where would you stay when you were at the Cape waiting for launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 36.872572399990915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody did, but I don’t think it was the government. I think it was people who owned car dealerships. They were going to supply me with a limousine to go wherever I needed to go and ride around. I told them I wasn’t going to ride around in that limousine, so they wanted to know what I wanted. I said, “You can get me a convertible. Get me a red convertible,” so they did.\\n\\n I managed to squeeze all the kids in there. We went to the store, and we went wherever we wanted to go. I didn’t want to be hauled around in a limousine. That was not the government that did that though. That was just the civilians that lived in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another one of those freebies or perks that you mentioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, another freebie. Yes, they were really nice to us. They were very good to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where would you stay when you were at the Cape waiting for launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were staying at the Holiday Inn. That’s where everybody stayed; we all stayed at the Holiday Inn. They didn’t charge us. I recall that they didn’t charge us for that. They were kind of astronaut central there because the Rockwell people had a big hospitality suite that seemed to be open at all hours of the day and night. So people congregated there, because the astronauts pretty much all stayed there with their families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any other support from NASA? Maybe a public affairs person? Or anyone assigned to you? A public affairs person perhaps?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 38.645896052417186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He worked here at JSC, and he’s passed on now. He worked for PAO."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the traditions while you’re down at the Cape of course is to have a party before liftoff, sort of a bon voyage to the crew, but the crew isn’t there. You and the family are there. I wondered if you would talk about that launch party and who you invited, who ended up coming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was small. We invited college friends and we invited church friends and we invited Marine Corps friends, and that was about it. I didn’t take an entourage of stars with me, which Beth Williams got after me saying, “You’re supposed to come down here with an entourage and you come down with an on-tour-age.” It was a really fun party. It was the most fun party of the evening. I invited relatives that I hadn’t seen for a long time. We just had close friends and relatives there. It was a really nice party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of launch day and getting ready to go out to the Cape and finally see your husband go into space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s kind of a blur. We went out to see the rocket at night when it was all lit up with the lights. We all went out there and looked at that, and that was kind of overwhelming. Then we had to get up early in the morning to go on the bus to the viewing site. I had a lot of the same people that had been at the party on the bus with me. Annie and John [H.] Glenn were with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s kind of an entourage, if you included them at your party. [He’s] kind of a big name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.454581956000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not quite the same. I wasn’t going to relax. I was going to be militant until the time he stepped on the carrier, because too many things had happened other times. [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s capsule sank, and they had people coming in off target.\\n\\n His was a really good rescue, so I was disappointed we couldn’t see it, but we listened to it. Rusty [Russell L.] Schweickart was sitting next to me and keeping me up-to-date on what they were doing by what we could hear on the squawk box. He said, “They’re on the carrier now,” and so I thought oh, now we can have the champagne, so we did.\\n\\n We had quite a few people over there for his splashdown. It was great fun, and it was really almost kind of a letdown when it was all over. When everybody went home and the leftovers were all put in the refrigerator and the interviews were all given, I was just sitting there with all the flowers and the telegrams and stuff by myself. The kids were out playing in the front yard, which they hadn’t necessarily been able to do for the last few days because of the splashdown. I just felt so let down. I was finally down where I belonged, on the ground, and my heart wasn’t up in the air somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you feel like you were let down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was hyper the whole time, that kind of down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I get you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very militant about what they were doing to my husband. It was a relief to have him back on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised when you saw that beard? Were you expecting to see him clean-shaven?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.28286884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was hyper the whole time, that kind of down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I get you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very militant about what they were doing to my husband. It was a relief to have him back on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised when you saw that beard? Were you expecting to see him clean-shaven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he told me he was growing one. Of course I couldn’t see it. Yes, I did too see it, because they did a couple of TV casts from Skylab, so I had seen it. I liked it. I thought it was cool, I thought he should have kept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have said that this experience with NASA changed you. I wanted to see if you could elaborate on that, just the experience of working with the Agency."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.2031876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very militant about what they were doing to my husband. It was a relief to have him back on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised when you saw that beard? Were you expecting to see him clean-shaven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he told me he was growing one. Of course I couldn’t see it. Yes, I did too see it, because they did a couple of TV casts from Skylab, so I had seen it. I liked it. I thought it was cool, I thought he should have kept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have said that this experience with NASA changed you. I wanted to see if you could elaborate on that, just the experience of working with the Agency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed me? No, it didn’t change me. I think it just brought out more of who I really am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.225764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he told me he was growing one. Of course I couldn’t see it. Yes, I did too see it, because they did a couple of TV casts from Skylab, so I had seen it. I liked it. I thought it was cool, I thought he should have kept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have said that this experience with NASA changed you. I wanted to see if you could elaborate on that, just the experience of working with the Agency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed me? No, it didn’t change me. I think it just brought out more of who I really am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I very much felt like I was part of the whole process, I mean from the beginning, from the word go, from when we started dating, and how I supported him through college, not financially but emotionally. I wanted to be part of it, and I thought I was part of it. But NASA didn’t think I was part of it, and that really got me. I’ll take that back as far as Deke goes. He made me feel part of it, because he listened. Nobody else listened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was the case for all the wives?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 11.36196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed me? No, it didn’t change me. I think it just brought out more of who I really am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I very much felt like I was part of the whole process, I mean from the beginning, from the word go, from when we started dating, and how I supported him through college, not financially but emotionally. I wanted to be part of it, and I thought I was part of it. But NASA didn’t think I was part of it, and that really got me. I’ll take that back as far as Deke goes. He made me feel part of it, because he listened. Nobody else listened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was the case for all the wives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think anybody made as much trouble as I did. They were shorter flights, so there wasn’t much that could go wrong. There were a lot of things that could go wrong, but there wasn’t anything that could develop that was a relational sort of thing. I don’t know. Say that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious about—like you ended up going to law school. Was that because of your experience working with NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:160", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I think I did a pretty damn good job being a housewife. I did a lot of things. I was a great cook. I told you I made my own clothes, and they weren’t homemade-looking, they were very professional-looking. I had taken a class in tailoring and a class in hat making. I was good at cooking, and I was pretty good at everything a housewife does. I knew that the kids were going to grow up and leave me and then I was going to be alone.\\n\\n I think he was scared, I really do. I think he was scared that I was going to law school. I guess I was pretty out of control sometimes when I talked back to people, and talked back to the people at NASA, and all those things that he thought I shouldn’t do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It benefited him in the end, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you because I’m looking at my time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What time do you have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forty-three, so we have a few minutes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:162", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you because I’m looking at my time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What time do you have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forty-three, so we have a few minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good, you can make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I think the only thing that I thought, since we just have a few minutes, is if you want to tell us, just so we’ll have it on the recording, why you decided to write your book [Keeper of the Flame]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What time do you have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forty-three, so we have a few minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good, you can make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I think the only thing that I thought, since we just have a few minutes, is if you want to tell us, just so we’ll have it on the recording, why you decided to write your book [Keeper of the Flame]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve always been interested in writing, even in school, but I thought I’d write like a memoir sort of thing. I did that, and it was really boring. I thought but my life has not been boring, so there’s something wrong with the way I’m writing it.\\n\\n I took a bunch of classes at junior [college], and I took some extension courses from UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles] about how to write. It just came to me one night when I was watching a play my son was in. I thought, “I’ll write a novel, and I’ll make it just true to life, but it’ll be a novel, so I can pretty much say whatever I want to say.”\\n\\n That’s how I wrote the novel. I took a lot of classes, I took a lot of notes, I worked on it for years and years. Then I got a freelance editor who urged me to rewrite some of it, and so I rewrote it. I like to say it only took me 20 years to write that book, off and on. That’s how I came to write it. It was very cathartic too, to write that. Laugh at the funny things and cry at the sad things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I enjoyed reading your book."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good, you can make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I think the only thing that I thought, since we just have a few minutes, is if you want to tell us, just so we’ll have it on the recording, why you decided to write your book [Keeper of the Flame]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve always been interested in writing, even in school, but I thought I’d write like a memoir sort of thing. I did that, and it was really boring. I thought but my life has not been boring, so there’s something wrong with the way I’m writing it.\\n\\n I took a bunch of classes at junior [college], and I took some extension courses from UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles] about how to write. It just came to me one night when I was watching a play my son was in. I thought, “I’ll write a novel, and I’ll make it just true to life, but it’ll be a novel, so I can pretty much say whatever I want to say.”\\n\\n That’s how I wrote the novel. I took a lot of classes, I took a lot of notes, I worked on it for years and years. Then I got a freelance editor who urged me to rewrite some of it, and so I rewrote it. I like to say it only took me 20 years to write that book, off and on. That’s how I came to write it. It was very cathartic too, to write that. Laugh at the funny things and cry at the sad things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I enjoyed reading your book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was-well written."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was-well written."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means a lot to me. I have a new publisher, and I have a publicist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m hoping that something comes of that, because I’m forgetting things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It happens to all of us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:172", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means a lot to me. I have a new publisher, and I have a publicist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m hoping that something comes of that, because I’m forgetting things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It happens to all of us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really fast. I have to sign this [release]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, please. Is there anything else that we haven’t talked about that you wanted to chat about as we close out today?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00095:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m hoping that something comes of that, because I’m forgetting things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It happens to all of us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really fast. I have to sign this [release]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, please. Is there anything else that we haven’t talked about that you wanted to chat about as we close out today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think Skylab was the biggest thing I wanted to get off my shoulders. What’s today?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today is the 20th. Thank you so much. We appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00317:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 64.41803837624701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The SMEAT. It was a very successful test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help in the development of that test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We thought that if we were going to fly all that equipment, we ought to run a ground test with it, at the same pressure they were going to fly at. And so we had three crewmen. It was—oh, let's see. [Robert L.] Crippen, [Karol J.] Bobko, and a guy, oh God, I can't think of his name now [William E. Thornton]. He's a doctor. Anyhow, we had the three of them in there, and we were in a fifty-six-day chamber run, and we found some problems. Some were hardware and some of the procedures, and whatever, and it was a very successful program.\\n\\n As I say, it lasted two months, but we worked out a lot of stuff, a lot of problems with the hardware and procedures and whatever. Frankly, as a result of that, our medical experiments for the flight program were very successful. The test went very well, went very well. Who was that other doctor? I can't think of his name. He flew in the Shuttle. But anyhow, the test went fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did those astronauts who had to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did fine. The one guy was a doctor, and I can't think of his name. I'll think of it. Anyhow, he was kind of a whiner, but the rest of them were fine, and we had a good test. I remember when the test was over, he came out, his wife wasn't there, I thought he was going to cry, but it was a good test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some specific problems that you discovered, that you were able to fix?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00317:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 73.72597330400865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did fine. The one guy was a doctor, and I can't think of his name. I'll think of it. Anyhow, he was kind of a whiner, but the rest of them were fine, and we had a good test. I remember when the test was over, he came out, his wife wasn't there, I thought he was going to cry, but it was a good test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some specific problems that you discovered, that you were able to fix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the hardware didn't work right, so we had to get it moved out, and some of the procedures weren't right. Communications weren't what they should have been. You know, it was a good test. I think without it, we would never have had the success we did with the flight program. And most of the medical things we did, you know, allowed us to do things that we were going to do in flight, and I think it was the precursor of the flight program and hardware we were going to fly. And it was a very successful test.\\n\\n In fact, you know, we put together a report on the thing, and it was about that thick. I've got a hardbound copy of it at home. It was a good test. We had a meeting every morning, and talked about what went on the day before and whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you monitor that test? Did you have people there twenty-four hours a day, monitoring?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were people there twenty-four hours a day, and I used to go out there in the evenings and the morning, and at night. It was a good test. It was a good test. One of the funny things, the first day, we were having a meeting, and I used to smoke a pipe back then, and I lit my pipe up and I put all the alarms off in the building. Oh, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't you tell us a little bit about the medical experiments that [were conducted on Skylab]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00317:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 39, "return_to_go": 47.792469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you expect to see in the future for space exploration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea, I really don't. You know, I don't work out there anymore. I think what they're doing up there with the Soviets and the Japanese and all the others, it sounds very interesting, but I'm not real sure that there's enough space up there to do all the things they keep saying they're going to do. But I don't work there, and I can't really say that what they're doing is right or wrong.\\n\\n You know, I would much rather see the United States put up their own space station and do their own thing, but they've got the Soviets and they've got the Japanese, and then I don't know who all they've got. They've got the Europeans. You know, it's a big International Space Station [ISS]. It maybe will work out, I don't know.\\n\\n If I were working at NASA, I don't think I'd be real happy about it. I think that we should have enough national pride that we're going to put up what we want, and we're going to run the programs we want to run. Now, if the other people want to come up and participate, fine, but we're running it. But that isn't the way the International Space Station is being run. There's a big community of countries that are running it, and we just happen to be one of them. And, unfortunately, we're putting most of the money into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we conclude your oral history, is there anything else you'd like to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00317:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.29, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything else you ever want to talk to me about, call me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll do that. Thank you very much for telling us about your history. But before we close, we'll see if Kevin has a question.\n\nYes, actually, I had a few questions, if you don't mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First, on some general things, I guess, just reflections on your career. You began to talk about the new International Space Station, and I wondered what you feel NASA should have or did learn from Skylab that would be appropriate for the ISS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's kind of a hard question. We learned an awful lot about the medical aspects of it. Now, whether a lot of that stuff still applies, I don't know. It's hard for me to say. I think we learned a lot about Earth resources and a lot about other things during that period. So I can't really tell you exactly what I think the Space Station, as they're getting ready to launch, will really accomplish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess I was thinking in terms of how you operate a station and sort of the daily running of long-term missions, because Skylab was really our first exposure to that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00367:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.764992600000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so I have varying levels of ambition. Sometimes I’ll say it’s time for me to write another paper, and I’ll do some research and slap together a paper and go present it somewhere. I’m busy. I am busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put in only four hours a day usually here, but I’ll be down at the university, I’ll be at the LBJ [Lyndon Baines Johnson] School [of Public Affairs], I’m involved with the continuing education program here in Austin [University of Texas at Austin Osher Lifelong Learning Institute]. It’s called UT FORUM. That’s mainly for retired persons like myself, but we have professors. Living in a university town like this there’s so many things going on, there’s always something going on. We get experts in just any kind of field that you want to come and talk to us about the latest and greatest developments in that field. They love doing it, and we love learning things, staying up to speed on things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeps our minds moving in the right direction, doesn’t it, learning something new."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you look back on those years that you spent with NASA is there a time that you feel like it was the most challenging part of your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.629378379006303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, we're talking about the year before I was in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm a native Chicagoan, number one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband and I had already spent time in, he worked for the UNDP [United Nations Development Programme]. And we, he did work on the island of Bonaire. So we had already been overseas for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, where is Bonaire?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.032642643340336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm a native Chicagoan, number one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband and I had already spent time in, he worked for the UNDP [United Nations Development Programme]. And we, he did work on the island of Bonaire. So we had already been overseas for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, where is Bonaire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Netherlands Antilles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.480714048155928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband and I had already spent time in, he worked for the UNDP [United Nations Development Programme]. And we, he did work on the island of Bonaire. So we had already been overseas for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, where is Bonaire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Netherlands Antilles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. And we were looking to go back overseas and we had a number of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What about your own background? You grew up in Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.978571164617698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Netherlands Antilles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. And we were looking to go back overseas and we had a number of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What about your own background? You grew up in Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grew up in Chicago, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school, college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.309523516241886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. And we were looking to go back overseas and we had a number of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What about your own background? You grew up in Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grew up in Chicago, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school, college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school. College in central Illinois. And then came back to Chicago and did a master's degree at the University of Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And in what subject?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6772483513798733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grew up in Chicago, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school, college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school. College in central Illinois. And then came back to Chicago and did a master's degree at the University of Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And in what subject?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in social psychology, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, did you begin a work career?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9331253105348063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had been doing some pre-service teaching and in- service teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for one of the city colleges in Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for Northeastern Illinois University as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And, but then you, you started the family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.289040137063805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then had actually, I was actually working at the University of Illinois Circle, now that I think about this, uh, in their student services area because I was working in education, doing some educational programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, but I always had an interest in being overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so wanted to go back overseas. So we were looking at options to get us back overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Bonaire?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.765600152293116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, but I always had an interest in being overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so wanted to go back overseas. So we were looking at options to get us back overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Bonaire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And while you were there, was it, did you have a professional role or was it just your husband?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.891785021022885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was a, uh, he actually directed a couple of programs for them. He worked in the ILL and they had some vocational education programs. And so he is an artist by training, but he also is a sculptor and he's very skilled in woodworking. And so they had, and we both do leathercraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had hired him to set up a tannery and run a leather program and actually produce goods."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he did woodworking and leather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.2738086679294875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he did woodworking and leather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only with some of the designs, because I, and they also had had people there before who had developed a series of designs because they had a tourist shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so what they were trying to do is train young people in a set of skills whereby they could actually earn a living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And so how old were your children when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.859787408810542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only with some of the designs, because I, and they also had had people there before who had developed a series of designs because they had a tourist shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so what they were trying to do is train young people in a set of skills whereby they could actually earn a living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And so how old were your children when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My children, my youngest was three and my daughter was three, and my son was just about going on five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have been busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.765169640506841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My children, my youngest was three and my daughter was three, and my son was just about going on five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have been busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, actually, no, they were a little younger. She was two and a half and he was more like four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came back and settled back into Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.29463293389649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, actually, no, they were a little younger. She was two and a half and he was more like four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came back and settled back into Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how did Peace Corps get into the mix?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.828554139606918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she told me that they were interested in teacher trainers. And we had actually had a couple of other options, but we decided to take Peace Corps because it was one, it was the only option that would actually employ both of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything else was either me or him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, that was why we decided on the Peace Corps. And that it would be a nice experience. We wanted to go to Africa, but the other two options were not Africa. One was Guyana and the other one was Cyprus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, when did you first hear about the Peace Corps? Do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1428379328965756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything else was either me or him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, that was why we decided on the Peace Corps. And that it would be a nice experience. We wanted to go to Africa, but the other two options were not Africa. One was Guyana and the other one was Cyprus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, when did you first hear about the Peace Corps? Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had heard about it long, a long time, when I was in college. Even so, I was familiar with it. But I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did know a few people who had served."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4920421476628616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, that was why we decided on the Peace Corps. And that it would be a nice experience. We wanted to go to Africa, but the other two options were not Africa. One was Guyana and the other one was Cyprus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, when did you first hear about the Peace Corps? Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had heard about it long, a long time, when I was in college. Even so, I was familiar with it. But I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did know a few people who had served."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you make the decision that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.076595244028224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you make the decision that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that we would give it a try. Yeah. Because it's a two year commitment. So that's not a long time. And because you're actually employed by the government and you have a stipend and the rest, it's not like you're going to a country and having to fend for yourself, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had support. So that that made sense to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'd be a consideration with young children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.41843916003136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that we would give it a try. Yeah. Because it's a two year commitment. So that's not a long time. And because you're actually employed by the government and you have a stipend and the rest, it's not like you're going to a country and having to fend for yourself, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had support. So that that made sense to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'd be a consideration with young children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.45464905354096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Um, it was kind of three stages. We applied from Chicago, and the recruiter who was working with us was a very, she was very good. She actually bent over backwards to get us in because she knew that she had to, uh, bringing in families was, even though they had the initiative on, they had to make sure, A, that you were stable. You know, there are a lot of Peace Corps volunteers who don't, shouldn't be going off to Peace Corps. And they really wanted to make sure they didn't make that mistake with the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also with the family, they needed to know that you could take care of your children because they didn't want, you know, the liability issues associated from, you know. Not to say that the State Department doesn't deal with them when they send families overseas all the time. But Peace Corps, as you know, is not resourced in the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the recruiter was working with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.727387837267733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also with the family, they needed to know that you could take care of your children because they didn't want, you know, the liability issues associated from, you know. Not to say that the State Department doesn't deal with them when they send families overseas all the time. But Peace Corps, as you know, is not resourced in the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the recruiter was working with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And she was good. You know, recruiters are all different. And in those days, uh, it was a very competitive process. It wasn't so much about their numbers and them needing to recruit a quota as them needing to actually get really good volunteers that wouldn't wind up being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0304309302974812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the recruiter was working with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And she was good. You know, recruiters are all different. And in those days, uh, it was a very competitive process. It wasn't so much about their numbers and them needing to recruit a quota as them needing to actually get really good volunteers that wouldn't wind up being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps was relatively small then overall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3671454781083123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And she was good. You know, recruiters are all different. And in those days, uh, it was a very competitive process. It wasn't so much about their numbers and them needing to recruit a quota as them needing to actually get really good volunteers that wouldn't wind up being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps was relatively small then overall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that point it wasn't. It was really pretty large because they had a regional recruiting office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.020950279085981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, oh, my sense of it was at least 10 or 12 offices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which made it easier for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because generally most of the families were recruited through Washington as opposed to being recruited at a, at a regional. And so she shepherded us through that process because we both had skills for programs that were desperate to have these skills, that they were having a hard time getting skilled people to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Your skill was defined as teacher training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6457099208748374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he. And Liberia was such that they were pretty sophisticated in terms of the level of expertise they were looking for and they really needed people to, for Peace Corps, and this was also kind of problematic with Peace Corps, to actually be able to work with a related USAID project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And not every Peace Corps volunteer was well suited to that. That was the kind of marriage that often didn't work very well. And it had other vulnerabilities, let's say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in this case AID, well, in Liberia really needed us. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at the same time, was there, did AID have any program where you might have gone to work directly for them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.531838025891409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I mean, yes and no. That comes later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because actually, when you asked about the recruiting process, so basically her name was Pat. I'm trying to think of her surname. But anyway, so it was a straightforward process. I think from start to finish, it took about seven months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the clearances and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the get-go though, it was, you were being recruited for that project in Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1257259578906282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the clearances and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the get-go though, it was, you were being recruited for that project in Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because when she saw us, it was a dead marker because I already had experience. And my husband already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and she knew that, you know, we, she was good. She knew all of the vacancies and all of the skill requirements. So she was, she was a good recruiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your, at that point, what did your family and friends think of your going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.28768992851938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were worried of course, they don't like to see you take children overseas, especially to those, uh, backwards countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so our friends were only too happy, because that was a time when a lot of people were going to Africa, you know? So in that regard, it wasn't unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And among certain people, the Peace Corps, you know, was still an attractive option at that point, particularly among college graduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being African American, did you have any particular meaning, special meaning, in going to Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.528105362779118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't want to go to Kenya, and at that time Ethiopia was open. But, you know, you had to go to where the positions were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and again, in terms of family, no. In fact, Liberia was our last choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we regarded that as too Anglicized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they wouldn't let you go to Ghana?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.809005958643464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and again, in terms of family, no. In fact, Liberia was our last choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we regarded that as too Anglicized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they wouldn't let you go to Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it had to do with the jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.467908590917857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it had to do with the jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and there weren't really jobs there for families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the jobs for families were in very, uh, they were scarce to begin with and they were pretty much in pivotal, associated with pivotal programs so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at some point you were content with the idea that you were going to Liberia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5225083551685277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, Pat made a compelling case that, you know, she was clear about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then as African Americans, um, and it just so happened she was African American as well so, and she, she knew what the numbers looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there tended to be a higher rejection rate among African American applicants than there was among whites. So when she saw us, she, you know, really pushed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very solid."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9138981724094752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then as African Americans, um, and it just so happened she was African American as well so, and she, she knew what the numbers looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there tended to be a higher rejection rate among African American applicants than there was among whites. So when she saw us, she, you know, really pushed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very solid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So she knew. Yeah. So she knew what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, you then finally got a letter saying you're invited to Liberia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.348775747121639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there tended to be a higher rejection rate among African American applicants than there was among whites. So when she saw us, she, you know, really pushed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very solid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So she knew. Yeah. So she knew what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, you then finally got a letter saying you're invited to Liberia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were ready for it to come, I mean, you had a sense of what the timing was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.368858947063752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were ready for it to come, I mean, you had a sense of what the timing was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we were busy doing other things. Like I said, I had to quit a full time job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that wasn't received very well at all. It wasn't. The man looked at me like I was crazy. He said, what did you want to do that for? Do you want to be a gypsy all your life, he goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And if you ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.965398830070836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we were busy doing other things. Like I said, I had to quit a full time job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that wasn't received very well at all. It wasn't. The man looked at me like I was crazy. He said, what did you want to do that for? Do you want to be a gypsy all your life, he goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And if you ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People would kill for this job that you have and you're going to throw it away?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had to close up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.628220922300928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that wasn't received very well at all. It wasn't. The man looked at me like I was crazy. He said, what did you want to do that for? Do you want to be a gypsy all your life, he goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And if you ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People would kill for this job that you have and you're going to throw it away?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had to close up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had this, we had an apartment. We put our things in storage. We sold a lot of things, sold our cars, and off we went. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids agreed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.364689913667697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People would kill for this job that you have and you're going to throw it away?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had to close up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had this, we had an apartment. We put our things in storage. We sold a lot of things, sold our cars, and off we went. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids agreed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the kids at that age, they don't complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're highly mobile at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.960766570741885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had this, we had an apartment. We put our things in storage. We sold a lot of things, sold our cars, and off we went. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids agreed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the kids at that age, they don't complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're highly mobile at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're highly mobile and they had a good time. They spent a lot of time in, I mean, when you look at it, our daughter is two years old, two and a half years old, who spends two years in another country, she's been lived there as long as she's lived anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, we'll get to that. So you had, you had the invitation and it was to report to X?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.623073967490983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the kids at that age, they don't complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're highly mobile at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're highly mobile and they had a good time. They spent a lot of time in, I mean, when you look at it, our daughter is two years old, two and a half years old, who spends two years in another country, she's been lived there as long as she's lived anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, we'll get to that. So you had, you had the invitation and it was to report to X?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was training. We did our training in Washington part ways. But for this segment, it was really considered a in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let's talk about the Washington phase. You report to Washington."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.358971074989981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're highly mobile and they had a good time. They spent a lot of time in, I mean, when you look at it, our daughter is two years old, two and a half years old, who spends two years in another country, she's been lived there as long as she's lived anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, we'll get to that. So you had, you had the invitation and it was to report to X?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was training. We did our training in Washington part ways. But for this segment, it was really considered a in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let's talk about the Washington phase. You report to Washington."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we were a family, we actually did report. Did we report to Washington? I'm trying to think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must be some point when you did shots and some advance passport stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.7321900833222013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was training. We did our training in Washington part ways. But for this segment, it was really considered a in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let's talk about the Washington phase. You report to Washington."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we were a family, we actually did report. Did we report to Washington? I'm trying to think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must be some point when you did shots and some advance passport stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, we trained at Peabody College, what was then Peabody College, in Memphis, uh, in Nashville, Tennessee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, but not overseas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8135445370246682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we were a family, we actually did report. Did we report to Washington? I'm trying to think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must be some point when you did shots and some advance passport stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, we trained at Peabody College, what was then Peabody College, in Memphis, uh, in Nashville, Tennessee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, but not overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and we did some training overseas later as well. We had one of the longest trainings of any group that ever went to Peace Corps because we had approximately six weeks in the U.S. And then another 6 or 7 weeks in country. And they were still playing around with optimal models of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the shift had occurred where most training was being done in country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9039383744718535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, we trained at Peabody College, what was then Peabody College, in Memphis, uh, in Nashville, Tennessee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, but not overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and we did some training overseas later as well. We had one of the longest trainings of any group that ever went to Peace Corps because we had approximately six weeks in the U.S. And then another 6 or 7 weeks in country. And they were still playing around with optimal models of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the shift had occurred where most training was being done in country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although they still."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2399703353523368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they still. And but for this group, because it was mostly education people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and I'm trying to think. I don't think we were all going to Liberia or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we all were. Um. Yeah, we all were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's talk about reporting to Peabody."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3777448170581519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and I'm trying to think. I don't think we were all going to Liberia or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we all were. Um. Yeah, we all were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's talk about reporting to Peabody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial reaction to? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of other people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5898084161211751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial reaction to? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of other people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, it was wintertime, number one. My daughter got pneumonia, number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was weird. Well, we had different accommodation from the other volunteers. They had actually rented a house for us to live in within walking distance of Peabody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let's take a look at the training group then. Were there other married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6553426845790834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, it was wintertime, number one. My daughter got pneumonia, number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was weird. Well, we had different accommodation from the other volunteers. They had actually rented a house for us to live in within walking distance of Peabody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let's take a look at the training group then. Were there other married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9988457317163288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had been divided into various groups. Some were teacher trainers. My teacher training group, for example, was 15 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The voc ag contingent was probably 8 or 9."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there were math science people, you know. So I'm sure there were a good 60 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's first talk about the domestic arrangements, then we'll get into the content of training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2331428786621343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there were math science people, you know. So I'm sure there were a good 60 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's first talk about the domestic arrangements, then we'll get into the content of training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the domestic arrangements for us, because we were family, they put us, they rented a house for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were separate from all the others in that regard, for houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were spending a lot of time in class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.370158754069038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the domestic arrangements for us, because we were family, they put us, they rented a house for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were separate from all the others in that regard, for houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were spending a lot of time in class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And what they had arranged for my son, he went to a, they both did. They went to a preschool right there at Peabody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So they were close by."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5223986156322644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were separate from all the others in that regard, for houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were spending a lot of time in class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And what they had arranged for my son, he went to a, they both did. They went to a preschool right there at Peabody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So they were close by."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were close by. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, let's talk about training, the six weeks at Peabody. Training generally has several components, one of which is language. And I don't know if, if you had a special language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9486337686820061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peabody was strictly pedagogy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And training about cross-cultural relative to the, to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what to expect. But no language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the pedagogy, much of it must have been familiar to you from your own background."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0540375207577846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And training about cross-cultural relative to the, to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what to expect. But no language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the pedagogy, much of it must have been familiar to you from your own background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it really consisted of Liberia specific, uh, instruction as it related to, uh. By that I mean teaching and teacher training in Liberia. What teachers were, what teachers' needs were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you also do Liberian history and culture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1711528008419827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what to expect. But no language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the pedagogy, much of it must have been familiar to you from your own background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it really consisted of Liberia specific, uh, instruction as it related to, uh. By that I mean teaching and teacher training in Liberia. What teachers were, what teachers' needs were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you also do Liberian history and culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4458676553604726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the language, because Liberia is a place that has several languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were learning region specific, which was the other reason why they had gone to in-country language training, because, you know, the earlier groups found that they were taught one language and then went to a site and couldn't speak to anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It happens all the time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6065196170671918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the language, because Liberia is a place that has several languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were learning region specific, which was the other reason why they had gone to in-country language training, because, you know, the earlier groups found that they were taught one language and then went to a site and couldn't speak to anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It happens all the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so to avoid that, they had gone with a model where all language training was done in a village where you were actually going to be placed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during this phase of training, did anyone come out from Peace Corps Liberia, from either Peace Corps or AID? And was there, how precise was the definition of what you would be doing when you got there? Let's concentrate on your job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9833575519348046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so to avoid that, they had gone with a model where all language training was done in a village where you were actually going to be placed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during this phase of training, did anyone come out from Peace Corps Liberia, from either Peace Corps or AID? And was there, how precise was the definition of what you would be doing when you got there? Let's concentrate on your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For my job, and I can say safely for us, because I actually knew the people who were handling the voc education training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that person had been with USAID in one part of his life, had been an APCD, um, in rural development or something else, but something related to voc ed anyway. And so, so we really had experts available to us from the country, both host country nationals and former either, well, people who had worked in development in those countries for a long period of time. So we really had competent trainers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about what you were learning? I mean, did it fit, did it seem a little off, or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.203730613260894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For my job, and I can say safely for us, because I actually knew the people who were handling the voc education training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that person had been with USAID in one part of his life, had been an APCD, um, in rural development or something else, but something related to voc ed anyway. And so, so we really had experts available to us from the country, both host country nationals and former either, well, people who had worked in development in those countries for a long period of time. So we really had competent trainers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about what you were learning? I mean, did it fit, did it seem a little off, or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was, it fit very closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I don't know if there was still doing it with this model. Often in training there is a selection component where you're screened further by either a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.3105176242354727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but in those days they were still hiring, really what I wanted to say was highly trained, highly skilled, competent professionals who had worked overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and the, you know, the process by which they selected the training sites and the rest was closely associated with people who had real track records. Later there was this shift to go with a bidding process where people who came in with the right kind of a package. And Peabody certainly had to bid. But they had been successful in training education volunteers because ours essentially was an education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the others in your teacher ed group, generally speaking, younger than you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.34501958248385856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and the, you know, the process by which they selected the training sites and the rest was closely associated with people who had real track records. Later there was this shift to go with a bidding process where people who came in with the right kind of a package. And Peabody certainly had to bid. But they had been successful in training education volunteers because ours essentially was an education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the others in your teacher ed group, generally speaking, younger than you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you came with a fair amount of experience at whatever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.525864323249289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were either my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some were older. There were 5 or 6 former teachers in that group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. For teacher trainers, that's what you look for. You need experienced teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a radical change from what was going on in the 60s. You know, it's much more."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7213502376533457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, well, it had to do with the host country and what they were demanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Liberia case, they had a long history of working with Peace Corps. They had a sophisticated set of skills that they were seeking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they knew that they just didn't want freshly minted undergraduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when you're in the six week training program, did you have any second thoughts about is this a smart thing to do or do I want to do this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.801500264059273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Liberia case, they had a long history of working with Peace Corps. They had a sophisticated set of skills that they were seeking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they knew that they just didn't want freshly minted undergraduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when you're in the six week training program, did you have any second thoughts about is this a smart thing to do or do I want to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, because for us to sell up everything and make that kind of move, second thoughts are not an option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're not going back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8905558489547477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they knew that they just didn't want freshly minted undergraduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when you're in the six week training program, did you have any second thoughts about is this a smart thing to do or do I want to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, because for us to sell up everything and make that kind of move, second thoughts are not an option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're not going back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Now, there were people who opted out at that point, and there were some people in country who should have opted out a lot earlier. And yeah, what we discover later is people have all sorts of motives for going overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes. And but the training that you were doing at Peabody wasn't particularly probing that aspect, you know, pushing you on motivation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3573477350323846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and as I said, at that point, they weren't using a psychologist to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to really identify people on the front end, at the point at which they're initially recruited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and so there they're running your past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no, there was no tension within the training about who's going to go and who isn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5081641500359828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to really identify people on the front end, at the point at which they're initially recruited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and so there they're running your past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no, there was no tension within the training about who's going to go and who isn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No. And I know what you're talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that appeared later, or earlier much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8619310494271393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No. And I know what you're talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that appeared later, or earlier much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It appears earlier. But also, um, there was that component. I mean, it was clear that we were being evaluated and it was clear that there would be a few people who wouldn't measure up given how they were behaving anyway. You could see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, but it wasn't intimidating. Whereas we had heard of, we had also known prior volunteers that had the other experience where they were put through sensitivity training and all of these other things to. No, they had abandoned that because that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the Vietnam War over by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.068812277141266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It appears earlier. But also, um, there was that component. I mean, it was clear that we were being evaluated and it was clear that there would be a few people who wouldn't measure up given how they were behaving anyway. You could see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, but it wasn't intimidating. Whereas we had heard of, we had also known prior volunteers that had the other experience where they were put through sensitivity training and all of these other things to. No, they had abandoned that because that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the Vietnam War over by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2986803079347395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, but it wasn't intimidating. Whereas we had heard of, we had also known prior volunteers that had the other experience where they were put through sensitivity training and all of these other things to. No, they had abandoned that because that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the Vietnam War over by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they weren't doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The draft wasn't an issue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.554089231038599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they weren't doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The draft wasn't an issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8378769233762213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they weren't doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The draft wasn't an issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.153196581529135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5035517572545944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.892835285838438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It could be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.325372539820487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We disembarked from Washington for Liberia. That's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a swearing in ceremony?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8059694886894295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We disembarked from Washington for Liberia. That's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a swearing in ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The swearing in, I believe, was in Washington. Yeah, that's, I think that's what happened because we didn't go back home before going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't remember who was Peace Corps director at that time? Was it Blatchford?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.822184553937566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The swearing in, I believe, was in Washington. Yeah, that's, I think that's what happened because we didn't go back home before going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't remember who was Peace Corps director at that time? Was it Blatchford?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. I'm smiling because we know Blatchford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From another, his son went to school with my son. Okay. So we know the Blatchfords very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. He may have been earlier. And then there were others."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4841784616513163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From another, his son went to school with my son. Okay. So we know the Blatchfords very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. He may have been earlier. And then there were others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, he was. Cy Griven was the Peace Corps director in Liberia. And the Peace Corps, I want to say, was it Payton?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Payton."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And how were the kids taking all this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8713094018347958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, he was. Cy Griven was the Peace Corps director in Liberia. And the Peace Corps, I want to say, was it Payton?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Payton."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And how were the kids taking all this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was fun for them. They pretty much. I said the only problematic incident was with my daughter getting ill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.779394323252834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was fun for them. They pretty much. I said the only problematic incident was with my daughter getting ill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was because the house, it was. Winter in Nashville is different from winter in Chicago because it's rainy and damp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, we were. Where she was in preschool was really very drafty and damp and I didn't know that. And so she wound up with this cold. And, you know, my children generally don't get sick. So when she showed the signs of an infection, you know, runny nose and stuff, I took her to the doctor right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she hospitalized?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1993270258364825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was because the house, it was. Winter in Nashville is different from winter in Chicago because it's rainy and damp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, we were. Where she was in preschool was really very drafty and damp and I didn't know that. And so she wound up with this cold. And, you know, my children generally don't get sick. So when she showed the signs of an infection, you know, runny nose and stuff, I took her to the doctor right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she hospitalized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. They just gave her an, an injection and medication and we were able to treat her at home. And so within a week, she was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you're leaving from Washington, flying to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.184354352884546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. They just gave her an, an injection and medication and we were able to treat her at home. And so within a week, she was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you're leaving from Washington, flying to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Liberia. Robertsfield?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is your first time then going to Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7603937254272735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Liberia. Robertsfield?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is your first time then going to Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you recall your initial reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.883849604370177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was easy for us because we had children. So everything for us was expedited. Not at Peace Corps' end, but when you, when you travel, you know this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you're going through customs with or without U.S. endorsement, you basically are breezed through because they know that young infants, young children have had enough stress and so they try to expedite it. So we were, we got out of there pretty expeditiously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.537610671522418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you're going through customs with or without U.S. endorsement, you basically are breezed through because they know that young infants, young children have had enough stress and so they try to expedite it. So we were, we got out of there pretty expeditiously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may not have been, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.264011857247131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may not have been, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I don't know if any or many had come to Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't know that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.960013174719035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may not have been, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I don't know if any or many had come to Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My understanding is that we were the first and probably the last. The married couples that we knew were other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I know they, someone sat down and calculated the cost."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.436232064086466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, um, and it had, before they could do that, they really had to make sure that the infrastructure was in place. And in a lot of countries, it really wasn't. But Liberia was considered to be a fairly good country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Easy country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.373591182318295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Easy country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was a big program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because in the early days, it was. It was one of the largest."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.415101313686995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was a big program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because in the early days, it was. It was one of the largest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say there were probably close to 200 volunteers maybe, but there were a lot. We weren't tripping all over one another because Liberia is a very diverse country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your settling in the first week."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7107013905171393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, well, the first week was more training. We went up to, I can't remember the name of the county, but we. The problem was, let me think. Okay. Yeah. Um, it's interesting because we actually did part of our training in [Grand] Cape Mount County is what it was called. And my husband was being, we were trained in two languages, Vai and Kpelle. That's what it was. Uh, which, now that I think about it, was kind of. I don't know. I think everybody was trained first in Vai. And then, and we spent two weeks being trained in Cape Mount, living in a village. That's what it was. We were doing village living. That's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so as part of village living, we had to do Vai because we were in a Vai village. And then we'd break up into groups doing your own specific language for where you would be going. So we did. [tape break]. As well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did there. And then we also, hmm. And we also did some training in Bonga, which is where our first placement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you, once you're in the country for the two week village stay, at that point do you know what your final assignment is going to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.581112827798937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did there. And then we also, hmm. And we also did some training in Bonga, which is where our first placement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you, once you're in the country for the two week village stay, at that point do you know what your final assignment is going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.090125364221041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.65569484913449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with whom did you stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2841053879272115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with whom did you stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't even remember the family's name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what was their family structure like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.593871848680267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they kind of share the responsibility for hosting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now with the singles they were placed in, with one family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For us, we were still with one family, but, um, there was, the family setting was large enough to accommodate another family right in that, that housing unit itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the kids? I mean, this is pretty far out there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.43763538742252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now with the singles they were placed in, with one family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For us, we were still with one family, but, um, there was, the family setting was large enough to accommodate another family right in that, that housing unit itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the kids? I mean, this is pretty far out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were doing well because they were just running around playing with the other Liberian children that lived in the village and picking up the language much faster than we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. And I assume they were readily accepted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.41683381163274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were doing well because they were just running around playing with the other Liberian children that lived in the village and picking up the language much faster than we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. And I assume they were readily accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, yeah. So. And they became very Liberian the whole while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the health wasn't a problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.574259790703044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, yeah. So. And they became very Liberian the whole while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the health wasn't a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Yeah. Um, so you have two weeks in the village stay. And then after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.054641716917338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Yeah. Um, so you have two weeks in the village stay. And then after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we go to our sites. So we went to Gbarnga."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gbarnga."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gbarnga, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.282935241019263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we go to our sites. So we went to Gbarnga."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gbarnga."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gbarnga, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Monrovia, um, is it three hours by car? Um, but in distance, you know how the roads work in Africa. In real distance it was probably 150 miles. If that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. So when you get to Gbarnga."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.425483601132514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gbarnga, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Monrovia, um, is it three hours by car? Um, but in distance, you know how the roads work in Africa. In real distance it was probably 150 miles. If that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. So when you get to Gbarnga."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember. For the first few weeks, we stayed on the campus of BWI. Oh, what was BWI? Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "British West Indies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.537634075472239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember. For the first few weeks, we stayed on the campus of BWI. Oh, what was BWI? Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "British West Indies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was whoever the man was. Booker Washington Institute, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Baltimore Washington International Airport. Booker Washington Institute was the name of the school. I was teaching at Kakata Rural Teacher Training Institute. They share a campus. BWI is here. Kakata is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what's the level?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.597371194969154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was whoever the man was. Booker Washington Institute, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Baltimore Washington International Airport. Booker Washington Institute was the name of the school. I was teaching at Kakata Rural Teacher Training Institute. They share a campus. BWI is here. Kakata is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what's the level?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they're preparing to become teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.789871454163756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we actually lived in the principal of BWI Institute's house for the first few months because housing was supposed to be provided at Kakata, KRTTI, it was called. And it took several months for them to come through with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that became a problem, you know, living in somebody else's space, you know, for months after you joined the Peace Corps, got to be a little. But it was good in one way because I didn't have to cook and had some of the best Liberian food I'll probably ever eat because it was furnished right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was, it was a real inconvenience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, when you're, when you're at Gbarnga, you're now doing intensive language training or just?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.322079393515285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that became a problem, you know, living in somebody else's space, you know, for months after you joined the Peace Corps, got to be a little. But it was good in one way because I didn't have to cook and had some of the best Liberian food I'll probably ever eat because it was furnished right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was, it was a real inconvenience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, when you're, when you're at Gbarnga, you're now doing intensive language training or just?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we were still doing. What are we doing? Oh, I know what happened. Okay. Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.113678263599117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we were still doing. What are we doing? Oh, I know what happened. Okay. Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened with the language training is that at some point after two weeks, some of us got shipped to Gbarnga to do language training in Gbarnga and training associated with practicum teaching. They had found a school, a high school, and Bong County High School is what it was. And we were doing some pre-service training right there, whereas other people were taken somewhere else. So that's the first time we're separated. So the children and my husband stayed in Cape Mount. That's what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4596425151101298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened with the language training is that at some point after two weeks, some of us got shipped to Gbarnga to do language training in Gbarnga and training associated with practicum teaching. They had found a school, a high school, and Bong County High School is what it was. And we were doing some pre-service training right there, whereas other people were taken somewhere else. So that's the first time we're separated. So the children and my husband stayed in Cape Mount. That's what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language of instruction was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8440472390112554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language of instruction was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, there was never that expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you knew that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.271163598901395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language of instruction was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, there was never that expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you knew that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that language is an incidental benefit, but it's not essential to the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.927362467779499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that language is an incidental benefit, but it's not essential to the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No, it was not essential. For the high school educators and for some of the others, it would be more essential to the job because technically Liberia is English speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, and is Liberian English is also."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2526249641994434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No, it was not essential. For the high school educators and for some of the others, it would be more essential to the job because technically Liberia is English speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, and is Liberian English is also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.50291662688827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, and is Liberian English is also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a patois, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tuning into that language as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7810184743203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a patois, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tuning into that language as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.978909415911444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a patois, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tuning into that language as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1987882399016043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.443098044335116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were deselected, not self selected?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7145533825945733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were deselected, not self selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9050593139939704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were deselected, not self selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1167325711044116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were assigned throughout the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3519250790049018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were assigned throughout the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And so we kept in touch. We often would visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, sometimes it's a wrench when training is finally over. And then the group that's become congenial, all of a sudden you're."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9036112086480266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And so we kept in touch. We often would visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, sometimes it's a wrench when training is finally over. And then the group that's become congenial, all of a sudden you're."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Far flung. But we would support one another by visiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd take the money bus or whatever it was and go to visit them, or they'd come to visit us. I had people passing through my house all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, okay now, let's again, you settled in the town. Let's talk about two things. One would be how the domestic arrangements worked out, including relation to the children. And then we'll talk about your initial settling into the job. So let's talk about the house you had, the way you were living."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.115123565164474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Far flung. But we would support one another by visiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd take the money bus or whatever it was and go to visit them, or they'd come to visit us. I had people passing through my house all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, okay now, let's again, you settled in the town. Let's talk about two things. One would be how the domestic arrangements worked out, including relation to the children. And then we'll talk about your initial settling into the job. So let's talk about the house you had, the way you were living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So after we left the principal's house, we finally had a house on BWI's compound. It was okay. It was allegedly furnished and we had to get some things made. Fortunately, my husband was a carpenter and worked in the shop and he and the head of the shop made some of the extra furniture that we needed. And I could sew. So, you know, I just sewed curtains and made bedspreads and lots of other things. You know, that, that wasn't anything new to me so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it considered acceptable or to have someone working for you to help with the cooking and the cleaning or the childcare?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3474124289394798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, so managing them could be a bit of a problem. I think we had two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ultimately. Um. And the first one didn't work out. After about two weeks, it was clear that we didn't want to do that. There was somebody else we had who I think was at BWI and he was someone my husband had met and that kind of worked out for a while. But in terms of the children, um, that was a bit of a problem because sometimes they weren't as reliable as we would have liked. And so my children were actually school aged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, there was a preschool available, so. Oh, I should also say that we lived in Gbarnga and we also lived ultimately in Monrovia. Um, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay with Gbarnga initially."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8980400357277527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, there was a preschool available, so. Oh, I should also say that we lived in Gbarnga and we also lived ultimately in Monrovia. Um, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay with Gbarnga initially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so in Gbarnga, what, where were they in school? They weren't in school in Gbarnga."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm sorry. We were in Kakata, Gbarnga, and then Monrovia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.740795659434503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually go, I go back to Gbarnga, but that's, that's coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in Kakata, they were not in school, but we had a neighbor who was the wife of the, uh, hmm, of the person who worked in the shop with my husband. And so she looked after our kids during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.045328510482781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in Kakata, they were not in school, but we had a neighbor who was the wife of the, uh, hmm, of the person who worked in the shop with my husband. And so she looked after our kids during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were adaptive. At that age, they're, you know, my kids are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are a lot of changes, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3836983449808677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were adaptive. At that age, they're, you know, my kids are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are a lot of changes, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But mommy and daddy are around so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.367025398832359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It, BWI, because it was a high school, they would do something called culture shows with each tribe would have a day when they would do their thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they got accustomed to culture shows all the time where people would be playing music and dancing and, you know, showing off their culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.852250443147065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they got accustomed to culture shows all the time where people would be playing music and dancing and, you know, showing off their culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But when we were in the Netherlands Antilles they could speak Dutch too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At only five."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0580560479411836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But when we were in the Netherlands Antilles they could speak Dutch too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At only five."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they're in a Dutch school for one. Got to meet Queen Bea, Princess Beatrix at that point. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's talk about your initial professional work. What's the job you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.540809935729856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they're in a Dutch school for one. Got to meet Queen Bea, Princess Beatrix at that point. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's talk about your initial professional work. What's the job you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was actually doing pre-service teacher training, which that meant was I was actually teaching students who were going out to be teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I was teaching a methodology class and, um, an psych course in educational psychology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they would be going out to teach at the elementary level, wouldn't they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1368023897899455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I was teaching a methodology class and, um, an psych course in educational psychology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they would be going out to teach at the elementary level, wouldn't they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Secondary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3742248775443837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Secondary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ghana was that way, too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.638027641715982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ghana was that way, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe a classroom setting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9311418241288685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ghana was that way, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe a classroom setting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a classroom setting was very much like any college classroom setting anywhere, except the students were older. Had generally had a little bit of experience as a teacher already, but were coming there to get a credential, or a teaching certificate. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Concrete block buildings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2453007531304197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, this was kind of more like a college setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, but in a country where you have natural air conditioning. So you had the jealousy windows, the concrete block, and nice clothes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large were the classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.494778614589355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, but in a country where you have natural air conditioning. So you had the jealousy windows, the concrete block, and nice clothes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large were the classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how the students addressed you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7719762384326168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large were the classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how the students addressed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you address the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.079973598258463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how the students addressed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you address the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.3110817758427364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you address the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took a little, you know, and Americans do the first name basis. But again, in our pre, our training in the U.S., we were already instructed on those basics. Because you're a teacher, so you have to get it right the day you walk in the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And of course, you're walking in with a lot of experience anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.3456464176030407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took a little, you know, and Americans do the first name basis. But again, in our pre, our training in the U.S., we were already instructed on those basics. Because you're a teacher, so you have to get it right the day you walk in the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And of course, you're walking in with a lot of experience anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so for me to walk in a female, one, and at that time I looked much younger than I actually was because I've spent most of my life looking 10 or 15 years younger than I really was. They didn't believe that I was, uh, what? A, they didn't believe I had the credentials to be there. And they just thought, you know. So my first day of class, my students questioned the validity of me being there in the first place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they confront you directly or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.426723972349433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so for me to walk in a female, one, and at that time I looked much younger than I actually was because I've spent most of my life looking 10 or 15 years younger than I really was. They didn't believe that I was, uh, what? A, they didn't believe I had the credentials to be there. And they just thought, you know. So my first day of class, my students questioned the validity of me being there in the first place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they confront you directly or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they weren't belligerent or bellicose or anything, but, uh, they wanted to make sure that I had the right credentials to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised by that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5268197189499172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they weren't belligerent or bellicose or anything, but, uh, they wanted to make sure that I had the right credentials to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised by that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, absolutely. You know, it's the first time I've ever walked into a classroom where people asked me what were, what was my experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's not something that happens. Generally when you, if you get a job to do something, they know that you, you should be there. But for them, A, I was a woman. Two, I looked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is not common, I gather?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5853552432776857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, absolutely. You know, it's the first time I've ever walked into a classroom where people asked me what were, what was my experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's not something that happens. Generally when you, if you get a job to do something, they know that you, you should be there. But for them, A, I was a woman. Two, I looked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is not common, I gather?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is not common. They had never had a female teacher before and certainly not a black female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7226607941699824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is not common. They had never had a female teacher before and certainly not a black female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one female person that they had had was an older white woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, just that I was female and looked very young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8029564379666471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one female person that they had had was an older white woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, just that I was female and looked very young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8921738199629412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, just that I was female and looked very young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the first married couple with children or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.991304244403268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the first married couple with children or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There was a woman who had been there. She's white. Was she, did she teach there? I'm trying to think. Uh, yeah, but she had married a Liberian guy, so. No, she wasn't there. She was at another teacher trainer institute, but she had been there before me. And so she told me a bit of this. She had been challenged in the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the town, were there are lots of Peace Corps people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2238324004978618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There was a woman who had been there. She's white. Was she, did she teach there? I'm trying to think. Uh, yeah, but she had married a Liberian guy, so. No, she wasn't there. She was at another teacher trainer institute, but she had been there before me. And so she told me a bit of this. She had been challenged in the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the town, were there are lots of Peace Corps people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They had had, they knew Peace Corps people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, generally in Liberia, if you reach the point where at you're at a post-secondary, you would have had an experience with a, you would have had a Peace Corps teacher at some point, by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to the students, did the fact that you came in and said, well, I'm a Peace Corps teacher, or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3598137783309576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They had had, they knew Peace Corps people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, generally in Liberia, if you reach the point where at you're at a post-secondary, you would have had an experience with a, you would have had a Peace Corps teacher at some point, by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to the students, did the fact that you came in and said, well, I'm a Peace Corps teacher, or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't say that. I was introduced to them, formally introduced by the principal of the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Without reference to the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6787824423838982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't say that. I was introduced to them, formally introduced by the principal of the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Without reference to the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without reference to Peace Corps, although they knew I was that Peace Corps woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, but I gather that was just an initial?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.865313824870998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without reference to Peace Corps, although they knew I was that Peace Corps woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, but I gather that was just an initial?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did that continue through your teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1869874140891603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I put that to rest right then and there. No, I was skilled. I knew what to do. And when I, when I spoke back with the headmaster of the school or whatever he was called, I can't remember, um, you know, he thought they were insolent. So he was prepared to go and give them what for the next day. I said, no, don't do that. I said, they, I can understand why they wanted to know. And I didn't take it as an affront, you know. And I handled it in such a way that they, A, they knew that they should never ask that kind of question to me again. But, you know, I was totally, I respect their need to need to know. But basically, you know, like a lot of people do, A, they're going to test you. B, you're a woman and it's a very misogynist environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the first place. And so, uh, so I handled it. And after that I had no problem with anybody in that class. None. Not cheating, not anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3188749045435113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the first place. And so, uh, so I handled it. And after that I had no problem with anybody in that class. None. Not cheating, not anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the same school. There were more women in that class. And, um, you know, that was my first experience with people just cheating wholesale, you know, bringing in a cheat sheet and then denying it when they were confronted. What? You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For those students, this was a desired career track, I mean, it represented solid employment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4654165606039014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the same school. There were more women in that class. And, um, you know, that was my first experience with people just cheating wholesale, you know, bringing in a cheat sheet and then denying it when they were confronted. What? You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For those students, this was a desired career track, I mean, it represented solid employment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have much opportunity, again with the Gbarnga, for informal contact with the students, or was the pattern just you taught and you'd come back to the house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.233526231677947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and then you lose control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So one of the things that was very clear. We lived in a compound with teachers who taught at BWI were, and students didn't come into that compound unless they were invited to come into that compound. That would have, that would have been a profound mistake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because then the lines of authority are blurred and those lines of authority are very critical to Liberians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the classic problems that American teachers have going overseas to teach is the style of learning, the rote learning versus what we might consider a somewhat more challenging, unstructured question answer. Did you encounter that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6920798788449205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were prepared for that, again, in our training stateside. That was, Peabody was an excellent place for us to train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, because it was very, that was what we, we were learning as pedagogy. We didn't need content."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We needed culture specific pedagogy. And that was what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were ready to handle it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0889875047468154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We needed culture specific pedagogy. And that was what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were ready to handle it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were ready to handle that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that came as no surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And, uh, how did you evaluate the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2099861163853507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were ready to handle that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that came as no surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And, uh, how did you evaluate the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same way I do in the States, through testing. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, uh, were they preparing to go out student teaching and did you observe them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4938100202288278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same way I do in the States, through testing. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, uh, were they preparing to go out student teaching and did you observe them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. Student teaching would happen in the content specific areas. What I was doing in the teacher training area, I was. Let me think. Like I said, I taught educational methods."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.659788911365364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. Student teaching would happen in the content specific areas. What I was doing in the teacher training area, I was. Let me think. Like I said, I taught educational methods."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At BWI just across the road, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that the family was close and your living conditions were comfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8442099015170712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At BWI just across the road, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that the family was close and your living conditions were comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from Peace Corps come out to take a look, see how you're doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.810867095743135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they weren't putting you in sight unseen accommodations, by and large."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew of, whoever had, was responsible for your job, was responsible for the housing. So there were a few incidents out in the hinterland where some volunteers might decide that they didn't want that specific accommodation that had been Peace Corps provided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would find something else. You could do that, there was enough flexibility to do that. In the case where we were living when we were in Kakata, the housing was considered higher end. It was very nice accommodation by Liberian standards, so it was not an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How were you being paid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0120745508257056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew of, whoever had, was responsible for your job, was responsible for the housing. So there were a few incidents out in the hinterland where some volunteers might decide that they didn't want that specific accommodation that had been Peace Corps provided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would find something else. You could do that, there was enough flexibility to do that. In the case where we were living when we were in Kakata, the housing was considered higher end. It was very nice accommodation by Liberian standards, so it was not an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How were you being paid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was money deposited in bank account somewhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I shouldn't ever forget having to do the bank thing. The Bank of Liberia. Yeah. In Monrovia. All deposits were there. And so basically once a month, because Liberia is heavily centralized, people had to make their way in town to get money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just get a stash of money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.484042655340377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was money deposited in bank account somewhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I shouldn't ever forget having to do the bank thing. The Bank of Liberia. Yeah. In Monrovia. All deposits were there. And so basically once a month, because Liberia is heavily centralized, people had to make their way in town to get money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just get a stash of money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd get a stash of money, or you'd live off your money in such a way that you didn't have to come in all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But people who lived closer in wanted to come in all the time because Monrovia is like a fry, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, uh, how did you travel around in the country? Let's take the first 4 to 6 weeks there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1728980182995574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a bit of privilege. Now, when I was a volunteer, volunteers were not allowed to have cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher trainers were actually given Suzuki dirt bikes. So I had a dirt bike and ultimately I really didn't use it. I gave it away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just too hot, you know, basically. And with teaching, you had to wear dresses all the time. And it was just, you know, it's not the image you see of dirt bikes on TV and ads and stuff. It's nothing glamorous about being on a dirt bike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was the idea that you would possibly be going out to supervise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6825901460488364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just too hot, you know, basically. And with teaching, you had to wear dresses all the time. And it was just, you know, it's not the image you see of dirt bikes on TV and ads and stuff. It's nothing glamorous about being on a dirt bike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was the idea that you would possibly be going out to supervise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because you would do in-service and you'd be. And so some of us were pre-service teacher trainers, which is what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had some in-service teacher trainers. So I just gave my bike to some other Peace Corps volunteer who was doing rural development. It was no big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Weren't you tempted to buy a car?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6798218738667163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was forbidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you're not in that close in, you might get away with it. And some people had tried it, but when I was in Peace Corps, people really didn't violate those kinds of expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, when I was an APCD in Botswana, I was pretty horrified to see the Peace Corps, you know, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different countries and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.542989967736687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, when I was an APCD in Botswana, I was pretty horrified to see the Peace Corps, you know, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different countries and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not only that, the standard had really changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I was there, most people really wanted to have the village based experience. They weren't going there to hob nob with the elites of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then how, if you decided you wanted to go into Monrovia, how would you get there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.608629589798379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I was there, most people really wanted to have the village based experience. They weren't going there to hob nob with the elites of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then how, if you decided you wanted to go into Monrovia, how would you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd take public transportation like everybody else. Now, if you had a little extra money, you can hire a taxi, which we did. But that was cheap. You know, when I was traveling with the children and we were coming into Monrovia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I pretty learned very rapidly that it was best to just hire a taxi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And was there a Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.231810655331532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd take public transportation like everybody else. Now, if you had a little extra money, you can hire a taxi, which we did. But that was cheap. You know, when I was traveling with the children and we were coming into Monrovia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I pretty learned very rapidly that it was best to just hire a taxi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And was there a Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, but I didn't use it. By that time, I had friends who lived in Monrovia, and so I always had really fairly nice places to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, so how long were you at Gbarnga?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.459025500409298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, but I didn't use it. By that time, I had friends who lived in Monrovia, and so I always had really fairly nice places to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, so how long were you at Gbarnga?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in Kakata at first. The Gbarnga thing was just a teacher training episode. I was in Kakata for about, hmm. Well, certainly a full term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.176695000454775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in Kakata at first. The Gbarnga thing was just a teacher training episode. I was in Kakata for about, hmm. Well, certainly a full term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And so now you're moving into a new job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.974105556060861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And so now you're moving into a new job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the new job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6223525383467425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the new job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new job was actually working on a curriculum materials development project. That was an AID sponsored project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they actually needed a teacher trainer to help liaise from the Liberian technical staff curriculum development specialists to the American specialists who had no clue about Liberia. They had brought in this team from Bloomington, Indiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds so much like AID."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1307004090028085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I moved. We moved onto the Methodist mission, which is a place I had come to know from my early training there. And as you're around, you develop relationships with people anyway. And the Methodist mission at that point was headed up by somebody from the U.S. whom I knew. He was with the United Methodists, I guess it was. And so it was a good place. And my children went to school at Cuttington University Hospital, and Cuttington College was the best university at that time in Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Better than the University of Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that worked out very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And, uh, you were, who was your immediate supervisor then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.457654825929393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that worked out very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And, uh, you were, who was your immediate supervisor then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people, the head of the AID project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was called the Improved Efficiency, IEL project. Improved Efficiency of Learning project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were considered to be responsible to them more than to a Liberian entity or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1105850113235676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or curriculum materials development. And then he hired a couple of other people from the U.S. who were recommended to the project from people he was associated with. And it turned out that one of those people was a friend of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so anyway, so it was like, you know, to see them walking down the road one day and you go, no, it can't be them. That's a mirage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then later that evening there was a basketball game and I took my children to the basketball game because it's right on the mission. And sitting in the audience is this friend. It's like, what are you doing here? You know, so. So we're here working on this project. I said, it can't be. And so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but, and they were all being paid AID type salaries."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.233983345915075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so anyway, so it was like, you know, to see them walking down the road one day and you go, no, it can't be them. That's a mirage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then later that evening there was a basketball game and I took my children to the basketball game because it's right on the mission. And sitting in the audience is this friend. It's like, what are you doing here? You know, so. So we're here working on this project. I said, it can't be. And so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but, and they were all being paid AID type salaries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. But I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were still."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9505588046353295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it just turned into a mess. So at that point, AID and the Indiana people had to reformulate what they were going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ministry was getting increasingly impatient with them. They felt that they were being paid for and weren't delivering a product. And then furthermore, what had also happened pretty much across the board, the Ministry of Education was beginning to feel that they were being compelled to bring in programs and projects they really didn't want. And that was one of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the point where the project is, is losing its way, then I was offered a transfer to Monrovia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you went into it initially, were you aware of much of that background or did it sort of unfold?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1672875607059217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ministry was getting increasingly impatient with them. They felt that they were being paid for and weren't delivering a product. And then furthermore, what had also happened pretty much across the board, the Ministry of Education was beginning to feel that they were being compelled to bring in programs and projects they really didn't want. And that was one of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the point where the project is, is losing its way, then I was offered a transfer to Monrovia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you went into it initially, were you aware of much of that background or did it sort of unfold?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It unfolded as I was there. I was good. I was doing what I was asked to do, and I was actually doing more than I was asked to do because I was, I was effective. I was helping them bridge and get stuff done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point, did you say to yourself, why doesn't AID just hire me? Why do they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.675663655192496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It unfolded as I was there. I was good. I was doing what I was asked to do, and I was actually doing more than I was asked to do because I was, I was effective. I was helping them bridge and get stuff done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point, did you say to yourself, why doesn't AID just hire me? Why do they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had talked about that. And at one point I had kind of pursued that option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now, uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.972959616880551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had talked about that. And at one point I had kind of pursued that option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was another reason, we're going to come to that in the chronology of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're now, the project's in trouble and you're aware of it, although it has some viable elements, that you then shift over to Monrovia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.3032884632006123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was another reason, we're going to come to that in the chronology of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're now, the project's in trouble and you're aware of it, although it has some viable elements, that you then shift over to Monrovia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I get a new house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You must be accustomed by now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.787775669685339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In area called, they called. Well, what was it called? It's right on the beach. Um, it's right over by the Swedish Embassy. What was that place called? Anyway, it's a little village that sat off the main road into town. Sinkor. Yeah. Sinkor. And it is, it's got the Swedish Embassy for my nearest neighbor. And on the other side, I've got the village of Sinkor right on the other side. And I've got the beach, which was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a brand new house built by this doctor. And so it was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps approved?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6137413041995716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that worked. And I went to work for the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Deputy Minister for curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right next to the World Bank person. And ultimately got asked to evaluate the very program I had worked on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's an interesting situation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9922732150611995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right next to the World Bank person. And ultimately got asked to evaluate the very program I had worked on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's an interesting situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. So I just evaluated, well, the person I was working for was a nun, and she was really very nice. I mean, she was serious, but they were having problems with the program. And so I gave them the evaluation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which were that there were some serious flaws."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. This may be a personal question, but did Peace Corps try to mediate at all between you and your husband or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.213636905623555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. So I just evaluated, well, the person I was working for was a nun, and she was really very nice. I mean, she was serious, but they were having problems with the program. And so I gave them the evaluation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which were that there were some serious flaws."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. This may be a personal question, but did Peace Corps try to mediate at all between you and your husband or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. No, no. They accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that wasn't an issue at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:699", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.165348374746313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than maybe the rental of another house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But. And they would have had to have paid for separate volunteers if we'd been separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in that sense, it wasn't. Yeah. It didn't cost them anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the expectation was that you would end your tour of duty at the same time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1424054009213735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in that sense, it wasn't. Yeah. It didn't cost them anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the expectation was that you would end your tour of duty at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.713783778801526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me put it this way. There were other events that took."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were diplomatic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:707", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.348648643112806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me put it this way. There were other events that took."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were diplomatic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were just other events that made those issues irrelevant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.102398687397539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other events were the Easter riots, rice riots that took place not long after I had come to Monrovia, and the coup that took place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so after, within about, what? Maybe four months of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just didn't matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, briefly describe the coup. It was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:719", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.627433041697583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the coup in Liberia in 1978 [1980]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, culminated in the execution of the former, the head of state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And 13 other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. And who was the leader of the coup?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:725", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.113076874756629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, who was the leader? Samuel K. Doe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he murdered then President Tolbert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And 12 of his ministers, including the Minister of Education. Oh, no, well, no, she went into hiding, but her brother was wound up in jail. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, during this period, one, how did you hear about the coup? And two, what was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.312440586119295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And 12 of his ministers, including the Minister of Education. Oh, no, well, no, she went into hiding, but her brother was wound up in jail. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, during this period, one, how did you hear about the coup? And two, what was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that didn't take much. We're right on the beach, right on the main drag. And we see the tanks rolling up the street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:731", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.013822873465883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that didn't take much. We're right on the beach, right on the main drag. And we see the tanks rolling up the street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:733", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.682025414962092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Within a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. During that month."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.20225046106899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Within a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. During that month."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or within a month. I can't say whether it's the whole month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you feel at all at risk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.076852421072827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or within a month. I can't say whether it's the whole month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you feel at all at risk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a dreadful time for my kids because they didn't understand the military convoys going up and down the street and all the shooting. I mean, we were indoors when the coup took place because it happened in the small hours of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the presidential palace was far from where we lived, so we didn't have that kind of action. But the rioting and the looting and stuff they saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0478160719117027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he just remembered the child, someone having to come to explain to all the other children what had happened to the man's father, who had been hung."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And these guys had been basically placed on poles and shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And lined up all along the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were becoming aware of this as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2936000887798798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And lined up all along the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were becoming aware of this as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aware of?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The execution?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was public. It was public. It was played up in the American press. Those heads, those pictures went around the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still going to work during that month or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.971650798323243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not far. There was a point on which we ventured to the Peace Corps office and places. We had, and one of the other things that happened to us is I had some friends at AID, as I said, the person who was over education, and she invited us to stay at her house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so for part of that time, we actually stayed at her house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And lots of times we would stay there when we were coming to Monrovia, even when we didn't live there so. And it had guards, military, U.S. guards and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware that Peace Corps was pulling out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:767", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.21191456583116394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And lots of times we would stay there when we were coming to Monrovia, even when we didn't live there so. And it had guards, military, U.S. guards and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware that Peace Corps was pulling out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Peace Corps didn't pull out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what happened was only the family of American personnel were forced to evacuate. Wives and children. And men stayed. My husband stayed, but we left in July of '70 [sic], of '80."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't protest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:769", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.23546062870129325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Peace Corps didn't pull out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what happened was only the family of American personnel were forced to evacuate. Wives and children. And men stayed. My husband stayed, but we left in July of '70 [sic], of '80."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't protest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no protesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I mean, protest may be the wrong word."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:773", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.2906921341991275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no protesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I mean, protest may be the wrong word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you couldn't, you know. No, it was not an option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, basically, no. I said we wanted to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you'd seen the impact on your children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.35887917802361413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, basically, no. I said we wanted to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you'd seen the impact on your children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because school was discontinued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, but, you know, services went on. But it was, it was a wise thing to do because things, as you know, in Liberia went to hell after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, um."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.44306071360940014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, but, you know, services went on. But it was, it was a wise thing to do because things, as you know, in Liberia went to hell after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But basically the people who served in my cohort were able to serve their terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was no evacuation of Peace Corps at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But you and the kids. Were there any, any other, uh. I guess it was always wives and children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.49228968178822236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But basically the people who served in my cohort were able to serve their terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was no evacuation of Peace Corps at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But you and the kids. Were there any, any other, uh. I guess it was always wives and children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So wives and children of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:787", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6077650392447189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So wives and children of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were the only Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they do with you? I mean, where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6752944880496876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were the only Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they do with you? I mean, where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where'd you debrief, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:791", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7503272089440973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they do with you? I mean, where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where'd you debrief, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At AID or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8336968988267748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where'd you debrief, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At AID or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, at Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were the only one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9263298875853053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At AID or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, at Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. And did Peace Corps have any kind of emergency plans in place before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2706857168522707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were always prepared to do emergency evacuations. I mean, where Peace Corps is, they're prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, they always, well, my sense is they always were. No?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. By the time I was there, they had, oh yeah. No. There was nothing like. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they, and they were prepared to handle it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:807", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7430531095367225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. And so that was why they had us leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, it wasn't. Peace Corps volunteers were never at risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it must have been really unsettling for you. Now you're back ahead of when you expected to return."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.936725677263025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, it wasn't. Peace Corps volunteers were never at risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it must have been really unsettling for you. Now you're back ahead of when you expected to return."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, it was okay because I had already been applying to graduate school, so it just made it possible to start when I needed to start. It was no biggie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point with the kids, you went back to Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:813", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2799082435345988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, it was okay because I had already been applying to graduate school, so it just made it possible to start when I needed to start. It was no biggie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point with the kids, you went back to Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back to Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And enrolled in a PhD program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to, uh. [tape break] Okay, let's, uh. So when, after you're back, you come back to Chicago, you're going back to school. Was it much of a shock coming back to the U.S.? People talk about the reverse culture shock."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:819", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7557040377703685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there always is in the sense that you have to kind of adjust to the fact that you're not in the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you're not going to walk to the beach. You're not going to go to the market. People are not going to say hello as being as open as they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so those kinds of changes, yeah, there's a little bit of discontinuity, but otherwise, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids, I mean by now they're?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:825", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4083731656658003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was difficult, coming back into, into the States, you know, because American children aren't interested in other places. So they could care less that they had lived abroad or anywhere else because the only thing that matters to them is, excuse me, the immediate and football and the other things. My son plunged right in. My daughter, she had a much more difficult time adjusting because then. You know, American society, its values with respect to beauty and other things are vastly different from. And also not just that among children, but even among adults and how adults deal with children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so that required adjustment for them. And because they had the experience of shaking hands with the president of a country or the queen of a nation, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I can see where it'd be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:827", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.5648590729620002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so that required adjustment for them. And because they had the experience of shaking hands with the president of a country or the queen of a nation, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I can see where it'd be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:829", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6276211921800003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I can see where it'd be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, coming back to the U.S. and having to deal with the school stuff where things are just really different. Even though we live in a, in Hyde Park, which is a neighborhood that's, you know, quite different from most. It's not like your average, but still there were issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now you, you had a continuing career with the Peace Corps and we'll talk about some of it. You said you at one point did some teacher training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6973568802000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, coming back to the U.S. and having to deal with the school stuff where things are just really different. Even though we live in a, in Hyde Park, which is a neighborhood that's, you know, quite different from most. It's not like your average, but still there were issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now you, you had a continuing career with the Peace Corps and we'll talk about some of it. You said you at one point did some teacher training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was called back to do some Peace Corps training as an RPCV. You know, the way they utilize returned volunteers to help them with their cross-cultural pieces and other pieces. And so I did that. And in fact, both of those trainings were right here in Washington. Well, right in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were they for, Liberia or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:835", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8609344200000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was called back to do some Peace Corps training as an RPCV. You know, the way they utilize returned volunteers to help them with their cross-cultural pieces and other pieces. And so I did that. And in fact, both of those trainings were right here in Washington. Well, right in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were they for, Liberia or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they were both for Liberia. Um. There was a contractor, a contractor in, based in Washington, who had set up, who had gotten the contract and had set up. And so I worked for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of my jobs was working with the education volunteers and doing the cross-cultural component."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which and you were very comfortable with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:837", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9565938000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they were both for Liberia. Um. There was a contractor, a contractor in, based in Washington, who had set up, who had gotten the contract and had set up. And so I worked for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of my jobs was working with the education volunteers and doing the cross-cultural component."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which and you were very comfortable with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did you get, you didn't get a chance to go back to Liberia then to follow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:839", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0628820000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of my jobs was working with the education volunteers and doing the cross-cultural component."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which and you were very comfortable with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did you get, you didn't get a chance to go back to Liberia then to follow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I didn't do that. But at that point, when you asked about peer reviews and evaluations and deselecting, that's when I got involved in those kinds of activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the selection, that change in it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:841", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did you get, you didn't get a chance to go back to Liberia then to follow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I didn't do that. But at that point, when you asked about peer reviews and evaluations and deselecting, that's when I got involved in those kinds of activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the selection, that change in it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to go back to Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I didn't do that. But at that point, when you asked about peer reviews and evaluations and deselecting, that's when I got involved in those kinds of activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the selection, that change in it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to go back to Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It's a country that's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:845", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to go back to Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It's a country that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was. I wasn't. Well, let me think. We were doing trainings for Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess it could have been for other places."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:847", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It's a country that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was. I wasn't. Well, let me think. We were doing trainings for Liberia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess it could have been for other places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably other places too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. They would have a cluster and then they'd split them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:851", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably other places too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. They would have a cluster and then they'd split them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was, it was for others too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't for, one was for Liberia, but the other one was for other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then several years later you went back to Botswana and were on staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:853", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was, it was for others too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't for, one was for Liberia, but the other one was for other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then several years later you went back to Botswana and were on staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Several years in '80, '80? Oh. Hmm. Yeah, it was '86."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were you an APCD then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:857", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Several years in '80, '80? Oh. Hmm. Yeah, it was '86."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were you an APCD then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for education and women in development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's a whole other story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00254:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for education and women in development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's a whole other story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's another story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to have to defer that one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.198438413746548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, well, I'm currently living in Gainesville, Florida, and after the Peace Corps, I went I got a master's in nursing at the University of California, San Francisco. And then I ended up finishing up a Ph.D. in anthropology at the University of Florida. And I ended up here on the faculty of the College of Nursing at the University of Florida and women's health and other areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been teaching here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, 24 years. It'll be 25 next year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So think back to the year or so before you joined the Peace Corps and just talk a little bit about your life experiences prior to joining the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I joined the Peace Corps right out of college. I got my bachelor's and then I went into the Peace Corps. I was already a nurse, though, because I had gone through a junior college program. So I was working and going to school at the same time. I'm from Idaho, Rexburg, Idaho, and I was going to school at the University of Utah. And I ended up spending a summer in Mexico during my junior senior year and learning Spanish. And on the way back from Mexico on the Greyhound bus, which would have been about ’61, 1961, I heard about Peace Corps. So when I got back, I went down and got the application and sent it in. And so then right away they had me come down at the courthouse or wherever it was and take this exam. And they were like a whole bunch of guys and me. Because it wasn't exactly, you know, Utah's not exactly an area where they expect women to go out and do a lot of independent things, I guess. But then they didn't. I told them I couldn't go into the Peace Corps until June because that's when I was going to graduate. And I did not want to spend all that time in school and then not graduate. So in June, after I graduated, I had pretty much figured that they weren't going to do anything and that I was kind of aggravated at them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.220487126385052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, 24 years. It'll be 25 next year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So think back to the year or so before you joined the Peace Corps and just talk a little bit about your life experiences prior to joining the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I joined the Peace Corps right out of college. I got my bachelor's and then I went into the Peace Corps. I was already a nurse, though, because I had gone through a junior college program. So I was working and going to school at the same time. I'm from Idaho, Rexburg, Idaho, and I was going to school at the University of Utah. And I ended up spending a summer in Mexico during my junior senior year and learning Spanish. And on the way back from Mexico on the Greyhound bus, which would have been about ’61, 1961, I heard about Peace Corps. So when I got back, I went down and got the application and sent it in. And so then right away they had me come down at the courthouse or wherever it was and take this exam. And they were like a whole bunch of guys and me. Because it wasn't exactly, you know, Utah's not exactly an area where they expect women to go out and do a lot of independent things, I guess. But then they didn't. I told them I couldn't go into the Peace Corps until June because that's when I was going to graduate. And I did not want to spend all that time in school and then not graduate. So in June, after I graduated, I had pretty much figured that they weren't going to do anything and that I was kind of aggravated at them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in usual government, you know, the way the government works. They weren’t very communicative. But I think it was a week after I graduate, I get this telegram in the mail or letter says you're supposed to, you're going to be going to Bolivia and you need to report to Peace Corps training in Tempe, Arizona, in like three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not much notice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.14874953874698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in usual government, you know, the way the government works. They weren’t very communicative. But I think it was a week after I graduate, I get this telegram in the mail or letter says you're supposed to, you're going to be going to Bolivia and you need to report to Peace Corps training in Tempe, Arizona, in like three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not much notice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my word. Yeah, that was a little difficult. I walked around it for a day or so trying to decide if I was too pissed off to go. If I should go. And finally I decided that, you know, I would regret it if I didn’t. And so I went ahead and I asked for a little extra time because I want to give the hospital a little time, because I was working at the hospital. And but I think I got there a couple of maybe three or four days later than most of the other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it about? I mean, you said you heard about it on the bus, on the way back from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of people talking about it. It was right about the time, I guess, that Kennedy had made that speech, because that was early in the class when he talked about Peace Corps. And, you know, the buzz was on, I guess it might have been in some newspapers. But people, you know, there were a lot of younger people on the bus and they were talking about it and that. So then I went and looked it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there were a lot of people who didn't join, I'm sure. So what was it about that program that made you interested in joining, or about you that you think made you interested in joining?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.328874538747574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had always been interested in international travel and I was especially interested in Latin America, hence the reason I was down in Mexico trying to learn Spanish. But I didn't ever see that there was going to be any way that I could do those things because I didn't have any money, you know, and my family didn't have any money. So then Peace Corps came out and they said, well, you know, you can go out and help out. At the same time, you might be able to travel a little bit. And so it was kind of a combination of altruism, sort of, and being helping somebody and also seeing part of the world that you hadn't seen before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked a little bit about the process, you thought they didn't they weren't going to respond to your application, and here you get a letter and they wanted you to report three days later. Can you talk a little bit about once you did finally report a few days later? What the training was like and just what that process from the time you got the letter through to going to where to your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I found out, I had indicated I wanted to go to Latin America and since I had a lot of Spanish, I thought they might send me. So when I finally decided I was going to go, then I took all my wool clothes and gave them to the Foundation Army. Because it's hot down there and I couldn't see taking those clothes because I was supposed to be in this area of Bolivia where it's very hot. And then when I got to Tempe, we came in Phoenix and they picked us up, took us over to Tempe. We stayed underneath the bleachers at the Arizona State Sun Devil Stadium. At that time, it wasn't really big like it is now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed underneath, like in tents?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had dorms. They had dorms under the bleachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Under the bleachers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.809860598608415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I found out, I had indicated I wanted to go to Latin America and since I had a lot of Spanish, I thought they might send me. So when I finally decided I was going to go, then I took all my wool clothes and gave them to the Foundation Army. Because it's hot down there and I couldn't see taking those clothes because I was supposed to be in this area of Bolivia where it's very hot. And then when I got to Tempe, we came in Phoenix and they picked us up, took us over to Tempe. We stayed underneath the bleachers at the Arizona State Sun Devil Stadium. At that time, it wasn't really big like it is now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed underneath, like in tents?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had dorms. They had dorms under the bleachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Under the bleachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was like a little stadium. Probably they were athletic dorms. Haigler Hall, that’s what we call it, the hallowed halls of Haigler. And first, they first started us out, we're getting up at 3:00 in the morning because we would do a run and then we would do all these exercises. And then we had classes, you know, language and area studies and all that. And then supposedly we were supposed to be able to take a nap when it was really hot, because this was in July, you know. But what happened was, you know, then you had to go to the dentist. You had to go get immunizations. So, you know, you ended up not getting much sleep in the middle of the day and they were getting you up in the. And the Indians. They moved us out of that, after about the first week, we moved down onto the Maricopa Indian reservation, out from under the bleachers. And so we had this really, it was a sort of an Outward Bound kind of physical. It was like what the military, that they were using in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a military style training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.788733998453793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had dorms. They had dorms under the bleachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Under the bleachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was like a little stadium. Probably they were athletic dorms. Haigler Hall, that’s what we call it, the hallowed halls of Haigler. And first, they first started us out, we're getting up at 3:00 in the morning because we would do a run and then we would do all these exercises. And then we had classes, you know, language and area studies and all that. And then supposedly we were supposed to be able to take a nap when it was really hot, because this was in July, you know. But what happened was, you know, then you had to go to the dentist. You had to go get immunizations. So, you know, you ended up not getting much sleep in the middle of the day and they were getting you up in the. And the Indians. They moved us out of that, after about the first week, we moved down onto the Maricopa Indian reservation, out from under the bleachers. And so we had this really, it was a sort of an Outward Bound kind of physical. It was like what the military, that they were using in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a military style training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I finally asked them if they couldn't let us use the 10BX, the women's. That's the Royal Canadian Air Force women's version of some of those exercises, because it was ridiculous. But the Indians thought we were absolutely nuts. You can imagine, you know, here we are. We're staying in these trailers. They put up these trailers out on the reservation. And I guess they must have paid them, you know, to be able to put them there. So they were they tolerated us. You know, I think we probably entertained them, is what I think happened. But I did you know, we had all kinds of classes. In the afternoon, they would have like area studies where they talked about the culture of Bolivia and then they talked about politics and how, because of the anti-American sentiment in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That hasn’t changed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.055876541088878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there’s probably more right now than there has been for a while. But so we talked about how to deal with those kinds of things. And they were very, they wanted to be sure, because this is new program. They wanted to be sure that that you were going to be able to deal with this, that they didn't want to send you as a representative of the U.S. over to someplace like Bolivia. And so but in the afternoon, I mean, mostly everybody got sunglasses because they were sleeping behind the sunglasses because nobody could stay awake. And we had the Indian ladies cooked for us and we had, you know, we had our meals out there in their tribal center. They had like a meeting place that had a kitchen. And it was kind of interesting. And they had Spanish class, a lot of intense Spanish classes. Well, I was way ahead of most of the people there. So mostly what happened is the instructor would end up using me to help teach the class. So I kind of got tired of that after a while. Finally I started cutting out and I went to work with some of the Indian ladies and they taught me how to make those big flour tortillas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which probably helped when you were down in South America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but you know, because it was like the training was, everything was so new to everybody that nobody knew really how to do it and now they do it very differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it was such a new program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a new program and they did not know. And now they do most of the training in country, you know, which would have made a lot more sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is everybody going to Bolivia, or were they going different in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.950973934543198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but you know, because it was like the training was, everything was so new to everybody that nobody knew really how to do it and now they do it very differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it was such a new program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a new program and they did not know. And now they do most of the training in country, you know, which would have made a lot more sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is everybody going to Bolivia, or were they going different in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're all going to Bolivia, but half of the group was supposed to go to Cochabamba and it was sort of managed by the Heifer Project. And then the other half were supposed to go down to Santa Cruz, which was the low, in the tropical area. And that was supposed to be the National Farmers Union was providing the leadership for that. Well, I didn't fit any place because I was the only nurse. Because they had a hospital there and they thought if they put a nurse in there that, you know. So it was an interesting. We started about 64 or 65 people and we ended up with like 42 or 43."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mixture of men to women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.945526593936886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a new program and they did not know. And now they do most of the training in country, you know, which would have made a lot more sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is everybody going to Bolivia, or were they going different in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're all going to Bolivia, but half of the group was supposed to go to Cochabamba and it was sort of managed by the Heifer Project. And then the other half were supposed to go down to Santa Cruz, which was the low, in the tropical area. And that was supposed to be the National Farmers Union was providing the leadership for that. Well, I didn't fit any place because I was the only nurse. Because they had a hospital there and they thought if they put a nurse in there that, you know. So it was an interesting. We started about 64 or 65 people and we ended up with like 42 or 43."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mixture of men to women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh mostly men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly men. Mostly white men?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.939473993263206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're all going to Bolivia, but half of the group was supposed to go to Cochabamba and it was sort of managed by the Heifer Project. And then the other half were supposed to go down to Santa Cruz, which was the low, in the tropical area. And that was supposed to be the National Farmers Union was providing the leadership for that. Well, I didn't fit any place because I was the only nurse. Because they had a hospital there and they thought if they put a nurse in there that, you know. So it was an interesting. We started about 64 or 65 people and we ended up with like 42 or 43."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mixture of men to women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh mostly men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly men. Mostly white men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At that time, we had one black guy, and that's when I discovered, because we were going around after training, we went out from the bars and restaurants and stuff when we had an opportunity. And there were places that wouldn’t let him in. This was in 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't think of Arizona as being that way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.043859992514674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh mostly men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly men. Mostly white men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At that time, we had one black guy, and that's when I discovered, because we were going around after training, we went out from the bars and restaurants and stuff when we had an opportunity. And there were places that wouldn’t let him in. This was in 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't think of Arizona as being that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't think of it but what would happen is by that time, we're all pretty much getting, you know, how you develop esprit de corps whenever you have a group like that. So we just all would take off if we couldn’t all go in, none of us would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.270955547238527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At that time, we had one black guy, and that's when I discovered, because we were going around after training, we went out from the bars and restaurants and stuff when we had an opportunity. And there were places that wouldn’t let him in. This was in 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't think of Arizona as being that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't think of it but what would happen is by that time, we're all pretty much getting, you know, how you develop esprit de corps whenever you have a group like that. So we just all would take off if we couldn’t all go in, none of us would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my group had a little bit extra longer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were so good or cause you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.189950608042807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't think of it but what would happen is by that time, we're all pretty much getting, you know, how you develop esprit de corps whenever you have a group like that. So we just all would take off if we couldn’t all go in, none of us would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my group had a little bit extra longer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were so good or cause you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were. We were about a little maybe six weeks in Arizona. And then they took us to Puerto Rico. Arecibo, Puerto Rico, and Camp Crozier was where we were. And that was these tent cities out in the jungle, out in the jungle, well, jungle in Puerto Rico. It has jungle but there's people everywhere you look. Not as many then as there are now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did they move you over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.099945120047563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my group had a little bit extra longer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were so good or cause you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were. We were about a little maybe six weeks in Arizona. And then they took us to Puerto Rico. Arecibo, Puerto Rico, and Camp Crozier was where we were. And that was these tent cities out in the jungle, out in the jungle, well, jungle in Puerto Rico. It has jungle but there's people everywhere you look. Not as many then as there are now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did they move you over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they wanted to work on the language and they also wanted us to do this Outward Bound program. So we did. We had to spend, we had to do an all-day overnight hike. We stayed by ourselves out in the jungle with our poncho and our blanket or whatever. And then we had an obstacle course we had to get through. We had drown proofing, they taught the drought proofing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.11105013338618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were. We were about a little maybe six weeks in Arizona. And then they took us to Puerto Rico. Arecibo, Puerto Rico, and Camp Crozier was where we were. And that was these tent cities out in the jungle, out in the jungle, well, jungle in Puerto Rico. It has jungle but there's people everywhere you look. Not as many then as there are now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did they move you over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they wanted to work on the language and they also wanted us to do this Outward Bound program. So we did. We had to spend, we had to do an all-day overnight hike. We stayed by ourselves out in the jungle with our poncho and our blanket or whatever. And then we had an obstacle course we had to get through. We had drown proofing, they taught the drought proofing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It means they taught you how to swim in choppy water so you could stay afloat if you had any injuries or whatever. So, you know, the test was to learn how, not every. You had to try it. Not everybody was successful. I was actually quite successful. But, you know, like they would tie your hands behind your back. You're supposed to float with just your feet loose. And they would tie the feet and you’d just have your hands and all that kind of stuff. And the idea was to be comfortable enough that you could float and stay afloat in the water. And then we also had, they took us out in the bay and we had to jump in with our clothes on. You know, we had our swimsuits on of course, and then we had to take our clothes off and like put air in the trousers. And all these survival things is what it was, basically. And then we rappelled, we did climbing, rock climbing, and then we rappelled down the dam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea what’s that. It’s probably not like that anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.012277925984645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they wanted to work on the language and they also wanted us to do this Outward Bound program. So we did. We had to spend, we had to do an all-day overnight hike. We stayed by ourselves out in the jungle with our poncho and our blanket or whatever. And then we had an obstacle course we had to get through. We had drown proofing, they taught the drought proofing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It means they taught you how to swim in choppy water so you could stay afloat if you had any injuries or whatever. So, you know, the test was to learn how, not every. You had to try it. Not everybody was successful. I was actually quite successful. But, you know, like they would tie your hands behind your back. You're supposed to float with just your feet loose. And they would tie the feet and you’d just have your hands and all that kind of stuff. And the idea was to be comfortable enough that you could float and stay afloat in the water. And then we also had, they took us out in the bay and we had to jump in with our clothes on. You know, we had our swimsuits on of course, and then we had to take our clothes off and like put air in the trousers. And all these survival things is what it was, basically. And then we rappelled, we did climbing, rock climbing, and then we rappelled down the dam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea what’s that. It’s probably not like that anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not like that anymore. But that's how they started, you know, in the first year. And there were some other groups that trained in it. And it depended on, they contracted out with the institutions to do the training, and it kind of depended where they were because there were groups from New England and places like that that didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a private group that trained you that they paid to train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.902531028871827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It means they taught you how to swim in choppy water so you could stay afloat if you had any injuries or whatever. So, you know, the test was to learn how, not every. You had to try it. Not everybody was successful. I was actually quite successful. But, you know, like they would tie your hands behind your back. You're supposed to float with just your feet loose. And they would tie the feet and you’d just have your hands and all that kind of stuff. And the idea was to be comfortable enough that you could float and stay afloat in the water. And then we also had, they took us out in the bay and we had to jump in with our clothes on. You know, we had our swimsuits on of course, and then we had to take our clothes off and like put air in the trousers. And all these survival things is what it was, basically. And then we rappelled, we did climbing, rock climbing, and then we rappelled down the dam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea what’s that. It’s probably not like that anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not like that anymore. But that's how they started, you know, in the first year. And there were some other groups that trained in it. And it depended on, they contracted out with the institutions to do the training, and it kind of depended where they were because there were groups from New England and places like that that didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a private group that trained you that they paid to train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Arizona State. Now, were they the ones that took you to Puerto Rico? Arizona State?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.780590032079807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not like that anymore. But that's how they started, you know, in the first year. And there were some other groups that trained in it. And it depended on, they contracted out with the institutions to do the training, and it kind of depended where they were because there were groups from New England and places like that that didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a private group that trained you that they paid to train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Arizona State. Now, were they the ones that took you to Puerto Rico? Arizona State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The various universities like Columbia, I think, did some training and different other training. And people were, you know, they had some guidelines I guess. A lot of people did the Outward Bound thing, you know, because they were, they wanted you to think that you can accomplish anything. And let me tell you, after you’ve rappelled down a dam when you’ve never done it before in your life, you know, you kind of start thinking, well, gee, I guess I could do more things that I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty awesome. So it was in total about nine or ten weeks? Six weeks in Arizona?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.64510003564423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Arizona State. Now, were they the ones that took you to Puerto Rico? Arizona State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The various universities like Columbia, I think, did some training and different other training. And people were, you know, they had some guidelines I guess. A lot of people did the Outward Bound thing, you know, because they were, they wanted you to think that you can accomplish anything. And let me tell you, after you’ve rappelled down a dam when you’ve never done it before in your life, you know, you kind of start thinking, well, gee, I guess I could do more things that I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty awesome. So it was in total about nine or ten weeks? Six weeks in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months, OK. And how many of your group ended up finishing the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.605666706271366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The various universities like Columbia, I think, did some training and different other training. And people were, you know, they had some guidelines I guess. A lot of people did the Outward Bound thing, you know, because they were, they wanted you to think that you can accomplish anything. And let me tell you, after you’ve rappelled down a dam when you’ve never done it before in your life, you know, you kind of start thinking, well, gee, I guess I could do more things that I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty awesome. So it was in total about nine or ten weeks? Six weeks in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months, OK. And how many of your group ended up finishing the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So only half of that. Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.561851895857073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months, OK. And how many of your group ended up finishing the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So only half of that. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did also had a 40-mile hike we had to do across the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.513168773174526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So only half of that. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did also had a 40-mile hike we had to do across the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. A lot of hiking there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.570187525749473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did also had a 40-mile hike we had to do across the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. A lot of hiking there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well they had, I was in the all-female group, the rest were guys. And we had one guy that wanted to marry us off to all his friends. And then we stopped at one place because we were just kind of going, they had given us this map that was so old, we're just tromping through wherever. And we went and came into this cafetal place, this coffee plantation. And so the lady felt sorry for us, so she made coffee and served it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh nice. So that was your survival hike huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.744652806388304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. A lot of hiking there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well they had, I was in the all-female group, the rest were guys. And we had one guy that wanted to marry us off to all his friends. And then we stopped at one place because we were just kind of going, they had given us this map that was so old, we're just tromping through wherever. And we went and came into this cafetal place, this coffee plantation. And so the lady felt sorry for us, so she made coffee and served it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh nice. So that was your survival hike huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They said you can't bring any money, but I brought money anyway, because we did find a couple of little stores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For food and stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.049614229320337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well they had, I was in the all-female group, the rest were guys. And we had one guy that wanted to marry us off to all his friends. And then we stopped at one place because we were just kind of going, they had given us this map that was so old, we're just tromping through wherever. And we went and came into this cafetal place, this coffee plantation. And so the lady felt sorry for us, so she made coffee and served it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh nice. So that was your survival hike huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They said you can't bring any money, but I brought money anyway, because we did find a couple of little stores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For food and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To get milk and bread. Yeah. You know, there's no way I can make any of that, lighting fires and cooking on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you come from a large family, don’t you? What did your family think of this? And did they think you were nuts? Did they think this was a great idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.499571365911486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They said you can't bring any money, but I brought money anyway, because we did find a couple of little stores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For food and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To get milk and bread. Yeah. You know, there's no way I can make any of that, lighting fires and cooking on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you come from a large family, don’t you? What did your family think of this? And did they think you were nuts? Did they think this was a great idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think they I'm pretty sure they were convinced I was nuts. But I'm the oldest and I'm a pretty dominant personality. So they've always kind of been in awe, if you want to say it like, because I pretty much knew what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And so they just said, well, it's not hurting anybody, you know, what can we do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.11063485101276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To get milk and bread. Yeah. You know, there's no way I can make any of that, lighting fires and cooking on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you come from a large family, don’t you? What did your family think of this? And did they think you were nuts? Did they think this was a great idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think they I'm pretty sure they were convinced I was nuts. But I'm the oldest and I'm a pretty dominant personality. So they've always kind of been in awe, if you want to say it like, because I pretty much knew what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And so they just said, well, it's not hurting anybody, you know, what can we do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, pretty young, though. It's even young now, but in the sixties, that's pretty young for a woman especially to venture out something that exotic and unknown."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.678483167791956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think they I'm pretty sure they were convinced I was nuts. But I'm the oldest and I'm a pretty dominant personality. So they've always kind of been in awe, if you want to say it like, because I pretty much knew what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And so they just said, well, it's not hurting anybody, you know, what can we do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, pretty young, though. It's even young now, but in the sixties, that's pretty young for a woman especially to venture out something that exotic and unknown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was one of the youngest women. Now we have some younger guys in our group because they were ag guys out of FFA. And so we had some 18 and 19 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they weren't all college students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.864981297546617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, pretty young, though. It's even young now, but in the sixties, that's pretty young for a woman especially to venture out something that exotic and unknown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was one of the youngest women. Now we have some younger guys in our group because they were ag guys out of FFA. And so we had some 18 and 19 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they weren't all college students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they are the ones that went off to work with the field plant. And they were, you know, had been working in agriculture and stuff like that, FFA and Future Farmers and all. Oh, I should tell you, since you asked about it, might as well get it on tape here. After we finished our training in Puerto Rico, they sent us home. We were supposed to get ready. You had to pack, they had all kinds of things you had to pack, and then ship our luggage. And we were supposed to re-meet again in Miami. So we met at the international airport in Miami, it was in October. And it was the very night that Kennedy did that put up or shut up speech about the Cuban Missile Crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh man, in Miami."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.738868108385129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was one of the youngest women. Now we have some younger guys in our group because they were ag guys out of FFA. And so we had some 18 and 19 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they weren't all college students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they are the ones that went off to work with the field plant. And they were, you know, had been working in agriculture and stuff like that, FFA and Future Farmers and all. Oh, I should tell you, since you asked about it, might as well get it on tape here. After we finished our training in Puerto Rico, they sent us home. We were supposed to get ready. You had to pack, they had all kinds of things you had to pack, and then ship our luggage. And we were supposed to re-meet again in Miami. So we met at the international airport in Miami, it was in October. And it was the very night that Kennedy did that put up or shut up speech about the Cuban Missile Crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh man, in Miami."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was leaving Miami. They moved us out of the airport hotel onto the Miami beach because there was nobody there. Everybody had kind of left because people were expecting the missiles to go off any time. And then at the same time, the first day, something was wrong with the flights. But then what happened is there was a miners strike in Bolivia. They didn't want to bring us in because when they what would happen when they had a mines strike in Bolivia is that they would arm all the miners and bring them in and have all these demonstrations. So they didn't really want to bring us in. So we did this little detour up to Brattleboro, Vermont, to Experiment in International Living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a detour. The experiment, what it that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.208479146154479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was leaving Miami. They moved us out of the airport hotel onto the Miami beach because there was nobody there. Everybody had kind of left because people were expecting the missiles to go off any time. And then at the same time, the first day, something was wrong with the flights. But then what happened is there was a miners strike in Bolivia. They didn't want to bring us in because when they what would happen when they had a mines strike in Bolivia is that they would arm all the miners and bring them in and have all these demonstrations. So they didn't really want to bring us in. So we did this little detour up to Brattleboro, Vermont, to Experiment in International Living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a detour. The experiment, what it that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a liberal sort of organization that had been working on trying to encourage international collaboration and exchange for a long time. And so we went up there, the idea was until it all settled down. And they had a new group coming in, and by this time, we were kind of cynical. We said, well, really, we're not ever going to go to Bolivia, we're just going to move around the United States, move around looking at airports. And so they decided to get us out of the way so that we wouldn’t infect this new group. And they said, we'll need to take you into Boston. And some of the people were saying, I'm not going to go, blah blah blah, you know? And I said, well, I've never been to Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might as well go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bring it on. So then about a week after that, we finally left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the time you started, you started training in June, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.009421273504977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a liberal sort of organization that had been working on trying to encourage international collaboration and exchange for a long time. And so we went up there, the idea was until it all settled down. And they had a new group coming in, and by this time, we were kind of cynical. We said, well, really, we're not ever going to go to Bolivia, we're just going to move around the United States, move around looking at airports. And so they decided to get us out of the way so that we wouldn’t infect this new group. And they said, we'll need to take you into Boston. And some of the people were saying, I'm not going to go, blah blah blah, you know? And I said, well, I've never been to Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might as well go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bring it on. So then about a week after that, we finally left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the time you started, you started training in June, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you finally get to Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.788245859449974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bring it on. So then about a week after that, we finally left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the time you started, you started training in June, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you finally get to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to Bolivia. It was almost Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So five or six months. Did you get back home any time during that? You said you went home after training though, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.653606510499971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you finally get to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to Bolivia. It was almost Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So five or six months. Did you get back home any time during that? You said you went home after training though, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, after training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be August or thereabouts, August, September, for a couple of weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.504007233888856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to Bolivia. It was almost Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So five or six months. Did you get back home any time during that? You said you went home after training though, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, after training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be August or thereabouts, August, September, for a couple of weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it hard to really leave once you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.448896926543174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, after training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be August or thereabouts, August, September, for a couple of weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it hard to really leave once you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not really. It was like, you felt like you need to be moving on and getting to do what. You were ready. And it was very frustrating, all these things that we kept running into. I don't think any other group had this unique experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what kinds of things besides the sort of Outward Bound stuff, the survival stuff, and the language skills. What did they teach you? You were a nurse. So did they teach you like farming skills?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.276552140603528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it hard to really leave once you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not really. It was like, you felt like you need to be moving on and getting to do what. You were ready. And it was very frustrating, all these things that we kept running into. I don't think any other group had this unique experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what kinds of things besides the sort of Outward Bound stuff, the survival stuff, and the language skills. What did they teach you? You were a nurse. So did they teach you like farming skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had me working with the midwifery people. Because in Bolivia, most of the babies are delivered by midwives and most of them were midwives, like lay midwives, or they had some training. And so they had me working. There was a nurse, a midwife from Norway or somewhere like that, to work with me. But I think she kind of was a little frustrated with me because I was so young and she was pretty much older, you know, and at 22 you just think you know everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah. We experience that a lot with our students."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.862835711781696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not really. It was like, you felt like you need to be moving on and getting to do what. You were ready. And it was very frustrating, all these things that we kept running into. I don't think any other group had this unique experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what kinds of things besides the sort of Outward Bound stuff, the survival stuff, and the language skills. What did they teach you? You were a nurse. So did they teach you like farming skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had me working with the midwifery people. Because in Bolivia, most of the babies are delivered by midwives and most of them were midwives, like lay midwives, or they had some training. And so they had me working. There was a nurse, a midwife from Norway or somewhere like that, to work with me. But I think she kind of was a little frustrated with me because I was so young and she was pretty much older, you know, and at 22 you just think you know everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah. We experience that a lot with our students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I actually when we were in Puerto Rico I just got fed up with that. I said I'm not sitting in anymore Spanish classes. So I went down to the local hospital and I said, I'm going to hang around here and see what goes on and see if I can't pick up some medical Spanish. And so that's what I did. Plus the beaches there in Mayaguez. We went to Mayaguez after we were at Arecibo, which is where they have the most beaches and stuff. So we did spend some time on the beach, which is probably why my group bonded so tightly that we kept in touch all these years. There was just all these crazy things that we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you a labor and delivery nurse? So you just worked in a hospital prior to this? Woman's health wasn't your area till you sort of got pegged for that for this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.514261901979662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had me working with the midwifery people. Because in Bolivia, most of the babies are delivered by midwives and most of them were midwives, like lay midwives, or they had some training. And so they had me working. There was a nurse, a midwife from Norway or somewhere like that, to work with me. But I think she kind of was a little frustrated with me because I was so young and she was pretty much older, you know, and at 22 you just think you know everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah. We experience that a lot with our students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I actually when we were in Puerto Rico I just got fed up with that. I said I'm not sitting in anymore Spanish classes. So I went down to the local hospital and I said, I'm going to hang around here and see what goes on and see if I can't pick up some medical Spanish. And so that's what I did. Plus the beaches there in Mayaguez. We went to Mayaguez after we were at Arecibo, which is where they have the most beaches and stuff. So we did spend some time on the beach, which is probably why my group bonded so tightly that we kept in touch all these years. There was just all these crazy things that we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you a labor and delivery nurse? So you just worked in a hospital prior to this? Woman's health wasn't your area till you sort of got pegged for that for this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And most of the trainees, you said, were men, but there were other women."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.238068779977402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I actually when we were in Puerto Rico I just got fed up with that. I said I'm not sitting in anymore Spanish classes. So I went down to the local hospital and I said, I'm going to hang around here and see what goes on and see if I can't pick up some medical Spanish. And so that's what I did. Plus the beaches there in Mayaguez. We went to Mayaguez after we were at Arecibo, which is where they have the most beaches and stuff. So we did spend some time on the beach, which is probably why my group bonded so tightly that we kept in touch all these years. There was just all these crazy things that we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you a labor and delivery nurse? So you just worked in a hospital prior to this? Woman's health wasn't your area till you sort of got pegged for that for this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And most of the trainees, you said, were men, but there were other women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they do? What were their skills?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.590208370342471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they do? What were their skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was the one that was a roommate with me in Guabira in the Santa Cruz area had a degree in sociology. So she was a quote a social worker. But didn't really have a social work degree. So then there was a social worker and she and her husband both joined and he was an entomologist and they were in the Santa Cruz area. They lived out at the experiment station. And then there were some other people that I can only think of as wheeler dealers. Our group had some people who worked with the experiment station, myself, and then they had other people doing what they called community development, which was always a very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nebulous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nebulous kind of thing. And so I don't know, I worked personally 8 to 18 hours a day because I worked in the hospital, trying to, well, yeah, I guess we're almost to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m curious. So you're beginning to talk a little bit about what you got when you got to the country. And so how, you know, talk about, you were working with a midwife in Puerto Rico, right, who was teaching you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.136059716472186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nebulous kind of thing. And so I don't know, I worked personally 8 to 18 hours a day because I worked in the hospital, trying to, well, yeah, I guess we're almost to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m curious. So you're beginning to talk a little bit about what you got when you got to the country. And so how, you know, talk about, you were working with a midwife in Puerto Rico, right, who was teaching you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, that was in Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Arizona."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico I was hanging around the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were getting to trying to get health related skills. Did you know what? So when you got to Bolivia, then your first day, there you are. So talk about sort of what it was like when you got there and that first week or two once you got there, what that was like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.928955240524652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, that was in Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Arizona."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico I was hanging around the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were getting to trying to get health related skills. Did you know what? So when you got to Bolivia, then your first day, there you are. So talk about sort of what it was like when you got there and that first week or two once you got there, what that was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came into La Paz and of course, there's always pomp and ceremony. I got to give the speech in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you spoke the best Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.809950267249613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico I was hanging around the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were getting to trying to get health related skills. Did you know what? So when you got to Bolivia, then your first day, there you are. So talk about sort of what it was like when you got there and that first week or two once you got there, what that was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came into La Paz and of course, there's always pomp and ceremony. I got to give the speech in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you spoke the best Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, to the president and all these people that were there. There’s a big picture in the paper, and right in the center, me. Well, I'm sure nobody ever knew who it was, but it was like, what? You want me to do what? But, you know, I was probably best prepared to do it. Then we went from there to Cochabamba and part of the group stayed in Cochabamba and then the people going to Santa Cruz went on to Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your group split in about half? Half and half?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.677722519166236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came into La Paz and of course, there's always pomp and ceremony. I got to give the speech in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you spoke the best Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, to the president and all these people that were there. There’s a big picture in the paper, and right in the center, me. Well, I'm sure nobody ever knew who it was, but it was like, what? You want me to do what? But, you know, I was probably best prepared to do it. Then we went from there to Cochabamba and part of the group stayed in Cochabamba and then the people going to Santa Cruz went on to Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your group split in about half? Half and half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, roughly. And we got down to Santa Cruz and then they took everybody out to where they were going to be. And they took me out to this place called Guabira, which was a sugar mill clinic, at the little settlement around the sugar mill. And they were good orientation. But I, and of course, we went, when we got there, we went over to look at the clinic and all that kind of stuff, and I thought it looked pretty dirty. So, of course, we cleaned it, which was not the thing to do. You know, you learn that. I learned all those kinds of things in this process of trying to be a Peace Corps volunteer. And while we were there, there was, you know, here this goat comes wandering in. Well, it’s the doctor’s goat, I guess, might have some milk or whatever. But right away I knew we were not in Kansas anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're not in Kansas or Arizona."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.367558665637329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, roughly. And we got down to Santa Cruz and then they took everybody out to where they were going to be. And they took me out to this place called Guabira, which was a sugar mill clinic, at the little settlement around the sugar mill. And they were good orientation. But I, and of course, we went, when we got there, we went over to look at the clinic and all that kind of stuff, and I thought it looked pretty dirty. So, of course, we cleaned it, which was not the thing to do. You know, you learn that. I learned all those kinds of things in this process of trying to be a Peace Corps volunteer. And while we were there, there was, you know, here this goat comes wandering in. Well, it’s the doctor’s goat, I guess, might have some milk or whatever. But right away I knew we were not in Kansas anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're not in Kansas or Arizona."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was interesting. And so mostly in the beginning, I had to, I was getting oriented to the place and I was the only registered nurse, but nobody thought I knew anything because they didn't know me. And the way most of the people that worked in the clinic got their training was they started out washing walls and floors and graduated to giving shots. And so, you know, that was kind of what you were up against. And so I had to. And some of the things they were doing, I didn't know how to do because we had stopped doing them, you know, 20 years before. So anyway, anyway, so I had, it was a real period of orientation and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By immersion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By immersion, yeah. And also got my roommate and I, Rose, we got elected to be candidates for the madrina, for the local soccer team, which meant we had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a soccer player?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.297287406263699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was interesting. And so mostly in the beginning, I had to, I was getting oriented to the place and I was the only registered nurse, but nobody thought I knew anything because they didn't know me. And the way most of the people that worked in the clinic got their training was they started out washing walls and floors and graduated to giving shots. And so, you know, that was kind of what you were up against. And so I had to. And some of the things they were doing, I didn't know how to do because we had stopped doing them, you know, 20 years before. So anyway, anyway, so I had, it was a real period of orientation and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By immersion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By immersion, yeah. And also got my roommate and I, Rose, we got elected to be candidates for the madrina, for the local soccer team, which meant we had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a soccer player?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the madrina was like the homecoming queen. And we had this, I remember that we had this parade. We had to give them some gifts, I think we gave them a ball, new ball. It was really nothing. But they had this big ceremony and we were going out there. There was a local couple of local girls and us. And as we get out there, on the way, we're all dressed up. There was a cloudburst. We just got drenched. I have a picture, it looks pretty bad. But what I ended up doing, I had to, um, I had not given that many IVs. They did a lot of stuff IV push."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was clinic, right? It was in like, so it wasn’t hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.330319340292998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By immersion, yeah. And also got my roommate and I, Rose, we got elected to be candidates for the madrina, for the local soccer team, which meant we had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a soccer player?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the madrina was like the homecoming queen. And we had this, I remember that we had this parade. We had to give them some gifts, I think we gave them a ball, new ball. It was really nothing. But they had this big ceremony and we were going out there. There was a local couple of local girls and us. And as we get out there, on the way, we're all dressed up. There was a cloudburst. We just got drenched. I have a picture, it looks pretty bad. But what I ended up doing, I had to, um, I had not given that many IVs. They did a lot of stuff IV push."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was clinic, right? It was in like, so it wasn’t hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a clinic. And then so I had to learn how to do all this. But I mean, IV push. You have to sit there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't just push it in. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.367021489214443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the madrina was like the homecoming queen. And we had this, I remember that we had this parade. We had to give them some gifts, I think we gave them a ball, new ball. It was really nothing. But they had this big ceremony and we were going out there. There was a local couple of local girls and us. And as we get out there, on the way, we're all dressed up. There was a cloudburst. We just got drenched. I have a picture, it looks pretty bad. But what I ended up doing, I had to, um, I had not given that many IVs. They did a lot of stuff IV push."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was clinic, right? It was in like, so it wasn’t hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a clinic. And then so I had to learn how to do all this. But I mean, IV push. You have to sit there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't just push it in. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And all kinds of stuff like that, which you know, I was working with this Bolivian doctor but everything was so different. I remember I was, we had done some surgery on this one woman one time and I was staying late, watching when she came out of the anesthesia and helping her out and stuff. And I remember walking her up to the bathroom and she gets, they were so proud of these flush toilets they had. And so she gets there to the bathroom and then she climbs up on top of the flush toilet, on top of the seat, and squats. Because that's what she was used to doing. And it was so much harder for her to climb up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it used to be a hole in the floor probably, right? How interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.518912765793825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a clinic. And then so I had to learn how to do all this. But I mean, IV push. You have to sit there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't just push it in. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And all kinds of stuff like that, which you know, I was working with this Bolivian doctor but everything was so different. I remember I was, we had done some surgery on this one woman one time and I was staying late, watching when she came out of the anesthesia and helping her out and stuff. And I remember walking her up to the bathroom and she gets, they were so proud of these flush toilets they had. And so she gets there to the bathroom and then she climbs up on top of the flush toilet, on top of the seat, and squats. Because that's what she was used to doing. And it was so much harder for her to climb up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it used to be a hole in the floor probably, right? How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. It was just one thing after another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you say that there was some culture shock?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.798791961993139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And all kinds of stuff like that, which you know, I was working with this Bolivian doctor but everything was so different. I remember I was, we had done some surgery on this one woman one time and I was staying late, watching when she came out of the anesthesia and helping her out and stuff. And I remember walking her up to the bathroom and she gets, they were so proud of these flush toilets they had. And so she gets there to the bathroom and then she climbs up on top of the flush toilet, on top of the seat, and squats. Because that's what she was used to doing. And it was so much harder for her to climb up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it used to be a hole in the floor probably, right? How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. It was just one thing after another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you say that there was some culture shock?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. Absolutely. For one thing, there's no way. They had these anthropologists who were male and they could talk about the culture, but they weren't very good for preparing women to go down there. First they said don't make your skirts too short and don't bring any pants and no shorts. The first day we were there, a bunch of girls came around and said, don't you want to come play basketball with us? They all had shorts on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh interesting, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.998657735547932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. It was just one thing after another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you say that there was some culture shock?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. Absolutely. For one thing, there's no way. They had these anthropologists who were male and they could talk about the culture, but they weren't very good for preparing women to go down there. First they said don't make your skirts too short and don't bring any pants and no shorts. The first day we were there, a bunch of girls came around and said, don't you want to come play basketball with us? They all had shorts on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh interesting, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they did is they made their own clothes, but they’d get these magazines like Elle, these European fashion magazines. So, I mean, they were as fashionable as they could be, you know, with what they had to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it with sounds like in your training, they maybe didn't they prepare. They taught you language, but you already knew that. And they taught you survival skills. But the day-to-day living stuff like maybe you didn't get so much of that. And then for you, particularly, because of your health care, you didn't get training in that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.109619706164368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. Absolutely. For one thing, there's no way. They had these anthropologists who were male and they could talk about the culture, but they weren't very good for preparing women to go down there. First they said don't make your skirts too short and don't bring any pants and no shorts. The first day we were there, a bunch of girls came around and said, don't you want to come play basketball with us? They all had shorts on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh interesting, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they did is they made their own clothes, but they’d get these magazines like Elle, these European fashion magazines. So, I mean, they were as fashionable as they could be, you know, with what they had to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it with sounds like in your training, they maybe didn't they prepare. They taught you language, but you already knew that. And they taught you survival skills. But the day-to-day living stuff like maybe you didn't get so much of that. And then for you, particularly, because of your health care, you didn't get training in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, well, they didn't really have anybody who was prepared to tell you how to deal with an antiquated health care system and these kinds of things. I mean, I adapted. Thank God. I was in, the program I was in was a two-year program first, and we had to do our time in central supply and our time in surgery and our time in, in my nursing program. OK, so because eventually I ended up having to do a lot of that stuff. Or I wouldn’t have known that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think the people in Bolivia thought of you young girls? I don't know how young the other one was. But you were a young girl and then your roommate was young too. What did they think of you coming down there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.344021895738187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they did is they made their own clothes, but they’d get these magazines like Elle, these European fashion magazines. So, I mean, they were as fashionable as they could be, you know, with what they had to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it with sounds like in your training, they maybe didn't they prepare. They taught you language, but you already knew that. And they taught you survival skills. But the day-to-day living stuff like maybe you didn't get so much of that. And then for you, particularly, because of your health care, you didn't get training in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, well, they didn't really have anybody who was prepared to tell you how to deal with an antiquated health care system and these kinds of things. I mean, I adapted. Thank God. I was in, the program I was in was a two-year program first, and we had to do our time in central supply and our time in surgery and our time in, in my nursing program. OK, so because eventually I ended up having to do a lot of that stuff. Or I wouldn’t have known that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think the people in Bolivia thought of you young girls? I don't know how young the other one was. But you were a young girl and then your roommate was young too. What did they think of you coming down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know what to do with that. I didn't do a whole lot there because I moved from Guabira very soon. So I was really taking the job away from a Bolivian nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.467794095662808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said to our Peace Corps leader, I said, you know, I really shouldn't be here. This is good for orientation. But, you know, they can pay to hire somebody. I don't want to take a job right away from a Bolivian nurse because there weren't all that many jobs that paid. So then the Ministry of Health opened up this hospital, Ministry of Health hospital, in Montero, Bolivia. And so the minister of health sent his son who was a physician down to open up the hospital. So they sent me in to work with him to help set up that hospital. And of course, we didn't have beds. The beds were supposed to be coming. So we had pallets in the beginning and they didn't fund it very well. So the doctor essentially had clinics and charged people a small sum so we could at least buy some of the supplies. And then we got the Maryknoll nuns had their late mothers’ groups make sheets out of the, you know, they have those. It wasn't USAID then, it was for the food supplies that they give. They come in these sort of bags, not burlap, but cloth bags. And so they made sheets out of all that. And then they got another group, the Lions, Ladies Lions Club, because the doctor wanted to open surgery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Ladies Lions Club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a Ladies Lions Club."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the Lions Club here, in 1961?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.186437884069787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a Ladies Lions Club."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the Lions Club here, in 1961?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Leonas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing. That’s amazing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.873819871188652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the Lions Club here, in 1961?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Leonas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing. That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, so they made, the doctor wanted to open the surgery. So we needed drapes and things cause you want to be able to do emergency surgery. So I think you could earn some money that way. So they made a couple of sets of drapes. They had this big presentation. I'll never forget that. They gave me all the pictures and they brought out these sheets and they showed us, you know, I had to eventually wrap them up in some kind of sterile pack so we could. Well, they had put this Lions Club plastic, which didn't last long once it was in heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the autoclave."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.415355412431835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Leonas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing. That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, so they made, the doctor wanted to open the surgery. So we needed drapes and things cause you want to be able to do emergency surgery. So I think you could earn some money that way. So they made a couple of sets of drapes. They had this big presentation. I'll never forget that. They gave me all the pictures and they brought out these sheets and they showed us, you know, I had to eventually wrap them up in some kind of sterile pack so we could. Well, they had put this Lions Club plastic, which didn't last long once it was in heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the autoclave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I couldn't believe it. But, you know, you couldn’t say anything, you know, thank you very much. So but yeah, one of the things, one of the big things that he wanted to do, was open a surgery that could do emergency surgery because it was hard for local people to get things like that done because they were just another poor peasant. And so they had this ancient autoclave. It must have been made in the 1800s, I don't know. I don't know how we didn't explode everything. But I had this little sort of kerosene sort of hot plate thing that I put that put it underneath there and heated it up, you know, put the pressure. It was like a pressure cooker. And I got it as hot as I could. But there was no control. I had no way of knowing how hot it was. But it was it got pretty hot. And that's how I sterilized the, you know, and we patched the gloves and we used the reusable noodles. And we had to, you know, take the hooks off of them. Like we used to a few years ago. And so, you know, but we did 147 surgeries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.905950458257594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, so they made, the doctor wanted to open the surgery. So we needed drapes and things cause you want to be able to do emergency surgery. So I think you could earn some money that way. So they made a couple of sets of drapes. They had this big presentation. I'll never forget that. They gave me all the pictures and they brought out these sheets and they showed us, you know, I had to eventually wrap them up in some kind of sterile pack so we could. Well, they had put this Lions Club plastic, which didn't last long once it was in heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the autoclave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I couldn't believe it. But, you know, you couldn’t say anything, you know, thank you very much. So but yeah, one of the things, one of the big things that he wanted to do, was open a surgery that could do emergency surgery because it was hard for local people to get things like that done because they were just another poor peasant. And so they had this ancient autoclave. It must have been made in the 1800s, I don't know. I don't know how we didn't explode everything. But I had this little sort of kerosene sort of hot plate thing that I put that put it underneath there and heated it up, you know, put the pressure. It was like a pressure cooker. And I got it as hot as I could. But there was no control. I had no way of knowing how hot it was. But it was it got pretty hot. And that's how I sterilized the, you know, and we patched the gloves and we used the reusable noodles. And we had to, you know, take the hooks off of them. Like we used to a few years ago. And so, you know, but we did 147 surgeries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a year. Were you only there in that part a year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2288338425084375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I couldn't believe it. But, you know, you couldn’t say anything, you know, thank you very much. So but yeah, one of the things, one of the big things that he wanted to do, was open a surgery that could do emergency surgery because it was hard for local people to get things like that done because they were just another poor peasant. And so they had this ancient autoclave. It must have been made in the 1800s, I don't know. I don't know how we didn't explode everything. But I had this little sort of kerosene sort of hot plate thing that I put that put it underneath there and heated it up, you know, put the pressure. It was like a pressure cooker. And I got it as hot as I could. But there was no control. I had no way of knowing how hot it was. But it was it got pretty hot. And that's how I sterilized the, you know, and we patched the gloves and we used the reusable noodles. And we had to, you know, take the hooks off of them. Like we used to a few years ago. And so, you know, but we did 147 surgeries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a year. Were you only there in that part a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because then they pulled me into the main Santa Cruz because they wanted to improve the quality of their nurses in the hospital and so they wanted somebody to come and do in-service. And by that time, see one of the things that I think I did was they sent some student nurses down to do their año de provincia, you know, the year of service that they have to do. And so I think it made a difference having somebody there who could be supportive. And so they weren't absolutely scared out of their minds so they could, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty close to their age."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5875931583427083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a year. Were you only there in that part a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because then they pulled me into the main Santa Cruz because they wanted to improve the quality of their nurses in the hospital and so they wanted somebody to come and do in-service. And by that time, see one of the things that I think I did was they sent some student nurses down to do their año de provincia, you know, the year of service that they have to do. And so I think it made a difference having somebody there who could be supportive. And so they weren't absolutely scared out of their minds so they could, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty close to their age."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And eventually there were a number of those. They had another nurse that came to be the administrator kind of and some of these other folks. And I think what I did eventually was just help keep it open until the community was able to get a hold of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so you moved around a little bit. You had this roommate. Did she move with you or did you then not have a roommate or what were your living conditions like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.986214620380787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because then they pulled me into the main Santa Cruz because they wanted to improve the quality of their nurses in the hospital and so they wanted somebody to come and do in-service. And by that time, see one of the things that I think I did was they sent some student nurses down to do their año de provincia, you know, the year of service that they have to do. And so I think it made a difference having somebody there who could be supportive. And so they weren't absolutely scared out of their minds so they could, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty close to their age."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And eventually there were a number of those. They had another nurse that came to be the administrator kind of and some of these other folks. And I think what I did eventually was just help keep it open until the community was able to get a hold of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so you moved around a little bit. You had this roommate. Did she move with you or did you then not have a roommate or what were your living conditions like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first I was living with her in this sugar mill community. Then when I moved to Montero, I moved in with the doctor and his family and then he was having marital problems, and I felt like I was right in it because I was training these girls to help in surgery and he was fell for one of them. So I said, excuse me, I think I'll find another place to live. So I went to live with another family. The thing is there I would take some of my meals with them and stuff, but what it was, I had to have a chaperone to go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that because, well even now, but women aren't safe a lot of places and especially in 1961."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.429127355978652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And eventually there were a number of those. They had another nurse that came to be the administrator kind of and some of these other folks. And I think what I did eventually was just help keep it open until the community was able to get a hold of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so you moved around a little bit. You had this roommate. Did she move with you or did you then not have a roommate or what were your living conditions like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first I was living with her in this sugar mill community. Then when I moved to Montero, I moved in with the doctor and his family and then he was having marital problems, and I felt like I was right in it because I was training these girls to help in surgery and he was fell for one of them. So I said, excuse me, I think I'll find another place to live. So I went to live with another family. The thing is there I would take some of my meals with them and stuff, but what it was, I had to have a chaperone to go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that because, well even now, but women aren't safe a lot of places and especially in 1961."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Essentially, as long as you followed it that you were trying to, and the community kind of adopted me. And so I really had to follow all the rules. And so if we went to a dance, I had to go with a group that, you know, they were kind of taking care of me, looking out for me. But, you know, the other option would have been to not follow the rules and then you would have been regarded as some kind of loose woman, you know, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably put yourself in danger."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.921252617754058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first I was living with her in this sugar mill community. Then when I moved to Montero, I moved in with the doctor and his family and then he was having marital problems, and I felt like I was right in it because I was training these girls to help in surgery and he was fell for one of them. So I said, excuse me, I think I'll find another place to live. So I went to live with another family. The thing is there I would take some of my meals with them and stuff, but what it was, I had to have a chaperone to go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that because, well even now, but women aren't safe a lot of places and especially in 1961."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Essentially, as long as you followed it that you were trying to, and the community kind of adopted me. And so I really had to follow all the rules. And so if we went to a dance, I had to go with a group that, you know, they were kind of taking care of me, looking out for me. But, you know, the other option would have been to not follow the rules and then you would have been regarded as some kind of loose woman, you know, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably put yourself in danger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. On a lot of fronts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chaperone would be somebody assigned to you or you just had to go out with other people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.468058464171175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Essentially, as long as you followed it that you were trying to, and the community kind of adopted me. And so I really had to follow all the rules. And so if we went to a dance, I had to go with a group that, you know, they were kind of taking care of me, looking out for me. But, you know, the other option would have been to not follow the rules and then you would have been regarded as some kind of loose woman, you know, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably put yourself in danger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. On a lot of fronts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chaperone would be somebody assigned to you or you just had to go out with other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much just other people or maybe the family. The last family I lived with, they were very focused on making sure that I had the right kind of people looking after me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. Because, yeah, you could have gotten into a situation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.07562051574575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. On a lot of fronts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chaperone would be somebody assigned to you or you just had to go out with other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much just other people or maybe the family. The last family I lived with, they were very focused on making sure that I had the right kind of people looking after me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. Because, yeah, you could have gotten into a situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a local politician who kind of took a liking to me. And of course, he was already married and all that kind of stuff. I wasn't interested at all. But, you know, you had to be careful of those kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, that's what I'm thinking. I mean, you could have found yourself in all kinds of uncomfortable situations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.7506894619397215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much just other people or maybe the family. The last family I lived with, they were very focused on making sure that I had the right kind of people looking after me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. Because, yeah, you could have gotten into a situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a local politician who kind of took a liking to me. And of course, he was already married and all that kind of stuff. I wasn't interested at all. But, you know, you had to be careful of those kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, that's what I'm thinking. I mean, you could have found yourself in all kinds of uncomfortable situations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's why I lived with the families and I followed what they, if they said. You know, even when I moved in to Santa Cruz, I moved in with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Was that pretty typical of most of the Peace Corps volunteers or not necessarily?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3896549577108015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a local politician who kind of took a liking to me. And of course, he was already married and all that kind of stuff. I wasn't interested at all. But, you know, you had to be careful of those kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, that's what I'm thinking. I mean, you could have found yourself in all kinds of uncomfortable situations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's why I lived with the families and I followed what they, if they said. You know, even when I moved in to Santa Cruz, I moved in with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Was that pretty typical of most of the Peace Corps volunteers or not necessarily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily. Some of them. The younger ones up in Cochabamba lived with families and they were the 18, 19 year olds. But most of the women were older than me that went. One was a schoolteacher. One was a former professional basketball player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t know they had professional basketball then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0996166196786685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's why I lived with the families and I followed what they, if they said. You know, even when I moved in to Santa Cruz, I moved in with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Was that pretty typical of most of the Peace Corps volunteers or not necessarily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily. Some of them. The younger ones up in Cochabamba lived with families and they were the 18, 19 year olds. But most of the women were older than me that went. One was a schoolteacher. One was a former professional basketball player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t know they had professional basketball then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Semi-professional basketball player. So, you know, they were kind of on their own or they might room with each other, but I was pretty much the younger one. And so and what I was doing, because I would end up seeing a lot of these people in the clinic, cause they’d, you know, come down to see the doctor. So they were very and I was open. I was willing to try stuff like the food they ate and all this different stuff. And so they pretty much adopted me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked in the clinic. You worked for, did you. I’m trying to think how to word this. Did you do what I would consider typical RN duties, or was your role expanded because it was a nurse and a doctor practice? Did you do more things that it may be like an NP would do now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.888462910754076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily. Some of them. The younger ones up in Cochabamba lived with families and they were the 18, 19 year olds. But most of the women were older than me that went. One was a schoolteacher. One was a former professional basketball player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t know they had professional basketball then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Semi-professional basketball player. So, you know, they were kind of on their own or they might room with each other, but I was pretty much the younger one. And so and what I was doing, because I would end up seeing a lot of these people in the clinic, cause they’d, you know, come down to see the doctor. So they were very and I was open. I was willing to try stuff like the food they ate and all this different stuff. And so they pretty much adopted me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked in the clinic. You worked for, did you. I’m trying to think how to word this. Did you do what I would consider typical RN duties, or was your role expanded because it was a nurse and a doctor practice? Did you do more things that it may be like an NP would do now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.764958789726752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Semi-professional basketball player. So, you know, they were kind of on their own or they might room with each other, but I was pretty much the younger one. And so and what I was doing, because I would end up seeing a lot of these people in the clinic, cause they’d, you know, come down to see the doctor. So they were very and I was open. I was willing to try stuff like the food they ate and all this different stuff. And so they pretty much adopted me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked in the clinic. You worked for, did you. I’m trying to think how to word this. Did you do what I would consider typical RN duties, or was your role expanded because it was a nurse and a doctor practice? Did you do more things that it may be like an NP would do now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went and made house calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the old visiting nurse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.516620877474168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went and made house calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the old visiting nurse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and then they had a diphtheria epidemic while I was there. So they got a vaccine from Brazil. And so then we, the doctor and I and one of the other aides, would usually go out and we'd give all these shots. We did it with, I always say, we had ten needles and five syringes because it's when we use the multi-dose. You know, I used to do that on a campfire. We boiled them, you know, and just kept reusing them because they were out in the jungle part where people were beginning to settle and they didn't want them to be catching the diphtheria. And then we also did some immunization with smallpox. So, you know, that was a drop on and a little kid to make the scratches like you would have done years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.351800974971297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went and made house calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the old visiting nurse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and then they had a diphtheria epidemic while I was there. So they got a vaccine from Brazil. And so then we, the doctor and I and one of the other aides, would usually go out and we'd give all these shots. We did it with, I always say, we had ten needles and five syringes because it's when we use the multi-dose. You know, I used to do that on a campfire. We boiled them, you know, and just kept reusing them because they were out in the jungle part where people were beginning to settle and they didn't want them to be catching the diphtheria. And then we also did some immunization with smallpox. So, you know, that was a drop on and a little kid to make the scratches like you would have done years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and the interesting thing there is that those people always want to pay us some way. They don't have any money and I don't want them to, you know, I'm fine. OK, so I remember going out one time and of course they brought all these grapefruits and they always wanted to feed you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty universal, I think, whenever you work in communities. That's pretty universal they want to feed you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.854075277742343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and the interesting thing there is that those people always want to pay us some way. They don't have any money and I don't want them to, you know, I'm fine. OK, so I remember going out one time and of course they brought all these grapefruits and they always wanted to feed you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty universal, I think, whenever you work in communities. That's pretty universal they want to feed you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Well, I wasn't sure what the water was like. So I really I would ask them if they wouldn’t mind making me some coffee, because then I knew that they would boil the water. And they usually were very happy to do it, you know, and that way I got through without really any major problems. I did have hookworm, I think, when I came, when they tested me. That was because of the dust bowl. It wasn't really because of what I was eating. And then one time we went out there and everybody brought an egg. This whole thing of eggs, because those were very precious, you know, chickens and eggs out there in that area. And you couldn't not take it. LUTZ; No, no, that's right. That’s true.\n\nAnd you couldn’t not eat stuff. So I just stopped asking what we were eating when it was hot. I'm sure we had alligator or kimon tail and who knows what else we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if they serve guinea pig in Bolivia. I know they do in other parts of South America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tepezcuintle. Yeah, well that's Central America more. But they do, they probably had different things. I just didn’t ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said earlier that you worked about 18 hours a day. Did you really?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.615639197491491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Well, I wasn't sure what the water was like. So I really I would ask them if they wouldn’t mind making me some coffee, because then I knew that they would boil the water. And they usually were very happy to do it, you know, and that way I got through without really any major problems. I did have hookworm, I think, when I came, when they tested me. That was because of the dust bowl. It wasn't really because of what I was eating. And then one time we went out there and everybody brought an egg. This whole thing of eggs, because those were very precious, you know, chickens and eggs out there in that area. And you couldn't not take it. LUTZ; No, no, that's right. That’s true.\n\nAnd you couldn’t not eat stuff. So I just stopped asking what we were eating when it was hot. I'm sure we had alligator or kimon tail and who knows what else we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if they serve guinea pig in Bolivia. I know they do in other parts of South America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tepezcuintle. Yeah, well that's Central America more. But they do, they probably had different things. I just didn’t ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said earlier that you worked about 18 hours a day. Did you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any leisure? It sounds like you had a little bit of leisure time but what would you say the balance was like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.128487997212768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tepezcuintle. Yeah, well that's Central America more. But they do, they probably had different things. I just didn’t ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said earlier that you worked about 18 hours a day. Did you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any leisure? It sounds like you had a little bit of leisure time but what would you say the balance was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sometimes it was pretty intense, but usually you had to do your social life with people who were there because that's all who was there. So all your socializing had to be in Spanish, you know. So I did Carnival and then some of the other Peace Corps volunteers were around, but they weren't close. So sometimes they would come in. We’d go in to Santa Cruz and try to find ice cream, which is hard to find. It was hard to find then. But yeah. And one of the reasons we worked so long is that they didn't have electricity in that community. So if we wanted to do surgery, use this big surgery light, we had to wait till they turned the electricity on. So our surgeries were all scheduled for the evening, seven o'clock, is when we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did clinic stuff during the day and then did surgery at night."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.220355552114528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sometimes it was pretty intense, but usually you had to do your social life with people who were there because that's all who was there. So all your socializing had to be in Spanish, you know. So I did Carnival and then some of the other Peace Corps volunteers were around, but they weren't close. So sometimes they would come in. We’d go in to Santa Cruz and try to find ice cream, which is hard to find. It was hard to find then. But yeah. And one of the reasons we worked so long is that they didn't have electricity in that community. So if we wanted to do surgery, use this big surgery light, we had to wait till they turned the electricity on. So our surgeries were all scheduled for the evening, seven o'clock, is when we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did clinic stuff during the day and then did surgery at night."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And if we had an emergency then they'd have to go run down and ask somebody to turn the electricity on. So everybody knew there was something going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "HIPAA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody had heard of HIPAA then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you comfortable with your language skills when you first got there? Because I know you said you lived in or you went to Mexico for a summer or something. I know sometimes when you first go someplace, even if you think your skills are pretty good, you realize how you're kind of a fish out of water."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.800395057905031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And if we had an emergency then they'd have to go run down and ask somebody to turn the electricity on. So everybody knew there was something going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "HIPAA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody had heard of HIPAA then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you comfortable with your language skills when you first got there? Because I know you said you lived in or you went to Mexico for a summer or something. I know sometimes when you first go someplace, even if you think your skills are pretty good, you realize how you're kind of a fish out of water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did pretty well, but I just had, like, headaches, because you have to listen so hard. You have to listen so closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you're thinking in English still."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.444883397672257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody had heard of HIPAA then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you comfortable with your language skills when you first got there? Because I know you said you lived in or you went to Mexico for a summer or something. I know sometimes when you first go someplace, even if you think your skills are pretty good, you realize how you're kind of a fish out of water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did pretty well, but I just had, like, headaches, because you have to listen so hard. You have to listen so closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you're thinking in English still."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're thinking and I remember the first time I dreamed in Spanish. Or I got so comfortable I could go to the movies. And they were all in Spanish, you know, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's interesting because you don't think about that. My son was in Germany for a year and said the same thing. When you start thinking in the language, that's a real shift. That's when you realize you really sort of made that leap. And that's, I would think, would have been a lot harder for some of the other volunteers who didn’t have language skills."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.049870441858063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did pretty well, but I just had, like, headaches, because you have to listen so hard. You have to listen so closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you're thinking in English still."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're thinking and I remember the first time I dreamed in Spanish. Or I got so comfortable I could go to the movies. And they were all in Spanish, you know, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's interesting because you don't think about that. My son was in Germany for a year and said the same thing. When you start thinking in the language, that's a real shift. That's when you realize you really sort of made that leap. And that's, I would think, would have been a lot harder for some of the other volunteers who didn’t have language skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it took me probably about three or four months to get pretty comfortable, but it would have taking a lot longer had I now already known Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were there two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.61096715762007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're thinking and I remember the first time I dreamed in Spanish. Or I got so comfortable I could go to the movies. And they were all in Spanish, you know, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's interesting because you don't think about that. My son was in Germany for a year and said the same thing. When you start thinking in the language, that's a real shift. That's when you realize you really sort of made that leap. And that's, I would think, would have been a lot harder for some of the other volunteers who didn’t have language skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it took me probably about three or four months to get pretty comfortable, but it would have taking a lot longer had I now already known Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were there two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that the extent of your Peace Corps service, two years? Or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.123296841800078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it took me probably about three or four months to get pretty comfortable, but it would have taking a lot longer had I now already known Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were there two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that the extent of your Peace Corps service, two years? Or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, now they, you have to do the training and then they add the two years, but then it was all included there. Some people extended, but I had, I was ready to go back to school, so I didn’t stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well then you went back for your master's degree after that. Well, you had delivered babies by then, so you kind of did it backwards, did the clinical part first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.692552046444531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that the extent of your Peace Corps service, two years? Or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, now they, you have to do the training and then they add the two years, but then it was all included there. Some people extended, but I had, I was ready to go back to school, so I didn’t stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well then you went back for your master's degree after that. Well, you had delivered babies by then, so you kind of did it backwards, did the clinical part first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. And they expected the nurses to do minor surgery and all that kind of stuff. But I didn't ever really feel that comfortable with that kind of stuff. But it was a lot of, a lot of negotiating. A lot of, the midwife there really taught me a lot. She really knew the people. She delivered most of the babies and was godmother to most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a midwife in the clinic or a community midwife that people knew?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.325057829382812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, now they, you have to do the training and then they add the two years, but then it was all included there. Some people extended, but I had, I was ready to go back to school, so I didn’t stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well then you went back for your master's degree after that. Well, you had delivered babies by then, so you kind of did it backwards, did the clinical part first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. And they expected the nurses to do minor surgery and all that kind of stuff. But I didn't ever really feel that comfortable with that kind of stuff. But it was a lot of, a lot of negotiating. A lot of, the midwife there really taught me a lot. She really knew the people. She delivered most of the babies and was godmother to most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a midwife in the clinic or a community midwife that people knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was, her headquarters were in the hospital, but she actually was not hired by the hospital. She was hired through the Ministry of Health, but as part of like the public health department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was part of the community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.027842032647569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. And they expected the nurses to do minor surgery and all that kind of stuff. But I didn't ever really feel that comfortable with that kind of stuff. But it was a lot of, a lot of negotiating. A lot of, the midwife there really taught me a lot. She really knew the people. She delivered most of the babies and was godmother to most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a midwife in the clinic or a community midwife that people knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was, her headquarters were in the hospital, but she actually was not hired by the hospital. She was hired through the Ministry of Health, but as part of like the public health department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was part of the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the community, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what was the worst part of doing this or the worst experience you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.586491147386187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was, her headquarters were in the hospital, but she actually was not hired by the hospital. She was hired through the Ministry of Health, but as part of like the public health department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was part of the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the community, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what was the worst part of doing this or the worst experience you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really bad? Well, the worst experience I had is what we had. We did an emergency C-section on this lady who was actually my laundry lady. You know, she used to iron my underwear. No, but she had like, this was her eleventh child. We didn't get her until she'd been in labor for about three or four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.207212385984652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the community, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what was the worst part of doing this or the worst experience you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really bad? Well, the worst experience I had is what we had. We did an emergency C-section on this lady who was actually my laundry lady. You know, she used to iron my underwear. No, but she had like, this was her eleventh child. We didn't get her until she'd been in labor for about three or four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she just could not. It was a huge kid. She probably was a diabetic by that time or gestational diabetes at least. And so they did this. And then, of course, we did classical C-section because, you know, we didn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.896902651094058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really bad? Well, the worst experience I had is what we had. We did an emergency C-section on this lady who was actually my laundry lady. You know, she used to iron my underwear. No, but she had like, this was her eleventh child. We didn't get her until she'd been in labor for about three or four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she just could not. It was a huge kid. She probably was a diabetic by that time or gestational diabetes at least. And so they did this. And then, of course, we did classical C-section because, you know, we didn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the big, the straight up, the vertical scar. Because they're easier to get in and get out. And, um, so she died on the table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.4035835198692075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the big, the straight up, the vertical scar. Because they're easier to get in and get out. And, um, so she died on the table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I subsequently I really think it was probably an amniotic embolus, which probably wouldn't, we wouldn't have been able to do anything about anyway. But it was, I was devastated, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, it was, that was really. Then the other thing that I really didn't like was these little kids that you would maybe we’d deliver and send them home and then they'd come back in six months later, you know, and their big bellies, malnourished and all that. And that was before oral rehydration. So the only thing that you could do was try to get some kind of intravenous or some kind of hydration into them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, again, for the tape, talk about the difference. So if anybody listening doesn’t know about oral rehydration."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.226203910965786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I subsequently I really think it was probably an amniotic embolus, which probably wouldn't, we wouldn't have been able to do anything about anyway. But it was, I was devastated, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, it was, that was really. Then the other thing that I really didn't like was these little kids that you would maybe we’d deliver and send them home and then they'd come back in six months later, you know, and their big bellies, malnourished and all that. And that was before oral rehydration. So the only thing that you could do was try to get some kind of intravenous or some kind of hydration into them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, again, for the tape, talk about the difference. So if anybody listening doesn’t know about oral rehydration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, oral rehydration now, which came out where they were developing it at that time, but not in Bolivia, in other places. So it's a way that they can actually give oral fluids. It has the salt and three fingers of sugar, four fingers of sugar, two fingers of salt, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In developing countries."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.140226567739763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, it was, that was really. Then the other thing that I really didn't like was these little kids that you would maybe we’d deliver and send them home and then they'd come back in six months later, you know, and their big bellies, malnourished and all that. And that was before oral rehydration. So the only thing that you could do was try to get some kind of intravenous or some kind of hydration into them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, again, for the tape, talk about the difference. So if anybody listening doesn’t know about oral rehydration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, oral rehydration now, which came out where they were developing it at that time, but not in Bolivia, in other places. So it's a way that they can actually give oral fluids. It has the salt and three fingers of sugar, four fingers of sugar, two fingers of salt, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In developing countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In developing countries, and it will stay down if you just do it gradually with even a little cup or a spoon. It’s very intensive. But back then we only thought that the only way you could rehydrate these kids would be starting by an IV or something. So we didn't really have the equipment we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like the Peace Corps could have prepared you better to handle some of these situations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.044696186377514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, oral rehydration now, which came out where they were developing it at that time, but not in Bolivia, in other places. So it's a way that they can actually give oral fluids. It has the salt and three fingers of sugar, four fingers of sugar, two fingers of salt, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In developing countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In developing countries, and it will stay down if you just do it gradually with even a little cup or a spoon. It’s very intensive. But back then we only thought that the only way you could rehydrate these kids would be starting by an IV or something. So we didn't really have the equipment we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like the Peace Corps could have prepared you better to handle some of these situations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, yeah, I think. I don't know if there was a better way to do it because they, you know, everybody was. The big thing was the lack of supplies and lack of expertise. I mean, we did what we call hypodermic plyacis where we just put the needle in underneath the skin because we'd have kids that we could not find a vein line even on the head or wherever, you know. And so that's one reason I never did do pediatrics after that, because that was really too hard to take. But anyway. Yeah. So I think one of my comments when I finished was the problem I thought, is that you really need, you can't be a nurse playing Schweitzer in the jungle. Now I wasn't, I was with. You needed to be attached to some organization or university or hospital or whatever. And everything was so and I was attached to a hospital, but there was just no infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well it was a new hospital, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.938551318197238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In developing countries, and it will stay down if you just do it gradually with even a little cup or a spoon. It’s very intensive. But back then we only thought that the only way you could rehydrate these kids would be starting by an IV or something. So we didn't really have the equipment we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like the Peace Corps could have prepared you better to handle some of these situations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, yeah, I think. I don't know if there was a better way to do it because they, you know, everybody was. The big thing was the lack of supplies and lack of expertise. I mean, we did what we call hypodermic plyacis where we just put the needle in underneath the skin because we'd have kids that we could not find a vein line even on the head or wherever, you know. And so that's one reason I never did do pediatrics after that, because that was really too hard to take. But anyway. Yeah. So I think one of my comments when I finished was the problem I thought, is that you really need, you can't be a nurse playing Schweitzer in the jungle. Now I wasn't, I was with. You needed to be attached to some organization or university or hospital or whatever. And everything was so and I was attached to a hospital, but there was just no infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well it was a new hospital, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a new hospital. And what they wanted me to do, ten years later I was maybe prepared to do. I was too new. I was too new now. Probably ten years later, I would have said, are you crazy? I’m not doing this! Because, you know, that's who goes. Usually either people who are older or people who are young and don't know any better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the best thing? Either one experience or overall."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.93172368688582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, yeah, I think. I don't know if there was a better way to do it because they, you know, everybody was. The big thing was the lack of supplies and lack of expertise. I mean, we did what we call hypodermic plyacis where we just put the needle in underneath the skin because we'd have kids that we could not find a vein line even on the head or wherever, you know. And so that's one reason I never did do pediatrics after that, because that was really too hard to take. But anyway. Yeah. So I think one of my comments when I finished was the problem I thought, is that you really need, you can't be a nurse playing Schweitzer in the jungle. Now I wasn't, I was with. You needed to be attached to some organization or university or hospital or whatever. And everything was so and I was attached to a hospital, but there was just no infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well it was a new hospital, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a new hospital. And what they wanted me to do, ten years later I was maybe prepared to do. I was too new. I was too new now. Probably ten years later, I would have said, are you crazy? I’m not doing this! Because, you know, that's who goes. Usually either people who are older or people who are young and don't know any better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the best thing? Either one experience or overall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, um. The interesting thing was just how the people took to you. There were a lot of anti-American sentiment, but on an individual basis, it depended what you did. And I didn't have any problem, you know. I had my little ukulele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have a ukulele?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.035248540984243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a new hospital. And what they wanted me to do, ten years later I was maybe prepared to do. I was too new. I was too new now. Probably ten years later, I would have said, are you crazy? I’m not doing this! Because, you know, that's who goes. Usually either people who are older or people who are young and don't know any better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the best thing? Either one experience or overall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, um. The interesting thing was just how the people took to you. There were a lot of anti-American sentiment, but on an individual basis, it depended what you did. And I didn't have any problem, you know. I had my little ukulele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have a ukulele?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I played it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you brought that with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.15027615664916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, um. The interesting thing was just how the people took to you. There were a lot of anti-American sentiment, but on an individual basis, it depended what you did. And I didn't have any problem, you know. I had my little ukulele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have a ukulele?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I played it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you brought that with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They’d play their guitars and I’d play some of the things I knew, stupid stuff, you know, but it's apparently an icebreaker. I thought one of the really neat experiences I had was when I moved in Santa Cruz, I had my twenty-first birthday there. And at that time, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have been 22 when you got out then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.055862396276844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I played it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you brought that with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They’d play their guitars and I’d play some of the things I knew, stupid stuff, you know, but it's apparently an icebreaker. I thought one of the really neat experiences I had was when I moved in Santa Cruz, I had my twenty-first birthday there. And at that time, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have been 22 when you got out then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t my twenty-first. It was my twenty-fourth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because you had a birthday there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.95095821808538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They’d play their guitars and I’d play some of the things I knew, stupid stuff, you know, but it's apparently an icebreaker. I thought one of the really neat experiences I had was when I moved in Santa Cruz, I had my twenty-first birthday there. And at that time, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have been 22 when you got out then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t my twenty-first. It was my twenty-fourth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because you had a birthday there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had a big party for me. And even though there had been a death in the family, they had been planning this. And they wouldn't normally do it but they did it and they allowed me to invite all these people I knew. And so it was just, the family was really nice. You know, they really did kind of take you under their wing. And, of course, you know, that's kind of what happened. I think what I did learn, um, I was surprised. I kept counting the days until I was going to be gone. And then all of a sudden it was coming up and I didn’t want to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So initially you were kind of saying, I only have to, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.945509131205979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t my twenty-first. It was my twenty-fourth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because you had a birthday there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had a big party for me. And even though there had been a death in the family, they had been planning this. And they wouldn't normally do it but they did it and they allowed me to invite all these people I knew. And so it was just, the family was really nice. You know, they really did kind of take you under their wing. And, of course, you know, that's kind of what happened. I think what I did learn, um, I was surprised. I kept counting the days until I was going to be gone. And then all of a sudden it was coming up and I didn’t want to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So initially you were kind of saying, I only have to, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've only got however many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hundred and 66 days or whatever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.050565701339977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had a big party for me. And even though there had been a death in the family, they had been planning this. And they wouldn't normally do it but they did it and they allowed me to invite all these people I knew. And so it was just, the family was really nice. You know, they really did kind of take you under their wing. And, of course, you know, that's kind of what happened. I think what I did learn, um, I was surprised. I kept counting the days until I was going to be gone. And then all of a sudden it was coming up and I didn’t want to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So initially you were kind of saying, I only have to, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've only got however many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hundred and 66 days or whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Really. Because, you know, you are in this culture, in this culture shock. And then the irony, even though they talked about it, you knew it was going to happen. You can see it kind of happening and there doesn’t seem to be a lot you could do about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You have to work through it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.167295223711085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've only got however many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hundred and 66 days or whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Really. Because, you know, you are in this culture, in this culture shock. And then the irony, even though they talked about it, you knew it was going to happen. You can see it kind of happening and there doesn’t seem to be a lot you could do about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You have to work through it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And but fortunately, I thought the carnivals that they had. My first experience with the carnival, Bolivian carnival in Santa Cruz, that was 11 days and nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like Mardi Gras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.408105804123426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Really. Because, you know, you are in this culture, in this culture shock. And then the irony, even though they talked about it, you knew it was going to happen. You can see it kind of happening and there doesn’t seem to be a lot you could do about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You have to work through it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And but fortunately, I thought the carnivals that they had. My first experience with the carnival, Bolivian carnival in Santa Cruz, that was 11 days and nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like Mardi Gras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it’s like Mardi Gras. It's like Brazil. They have the Carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've heard of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.453450893470473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And but fortunately, I thought the carnivals that they had. My first experience with the carnival, Bolivian carnival in Santa Cruz, that was 11 days and nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like Mardi Gras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it’s like Mardi Gras. It's like Brazil. They have the Carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've heard of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they dance in the streets in the day and then they dance at night and, you know. And the stores practically, everything closed down because nobody did anything during that. But I think they reduced it now so it's not nearly as long, you know, might be three or four days or something like that. But then it was 11 days and nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So I think we’ve addressed a lot of these and I'll go back. But I want to get this on the tape for sure. Overall evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, which were to provide technical assistance where requested, to promote better understanding of the U.S., to promote better understanding of other people by Americans. So based on your service, did you feel like you were able to do those three things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.614945437189414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it’s like Mardi Gras. It's like Brazil. They have the Carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've heard of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they dance in the streets in the day and then they dance at night and, you know. And the stores practically, everything closed down because nobody did anything during that. But I think they reduced it now so it's not nearly as long, you know, might be three or four days or something like that. But then it was 11 days and nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So I think we’ve addressed a lot of these and I'll go back. But I want to get this on the tape for sure. Overall evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, which were to provide technical assistance where requested, to promote better understanding of the U.S., to promote better understanding of other people by Americans. So based on your service, did you feel like you were able to do those three things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some extent. I did train these people, these young girls, to be sort of paramedical, to help with surgery. And of course, the big deal was understanding sterile technique. Because if you don't understand the whole germs theory, you know, you just can't understand. So I had to teach it like a ritual. So this is a ceremony. This is how you do it. I didn't say that’s a ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's really interesting because you got the culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.468442976969083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but because all they had seen before was people from like the oil drilling people or some of the real big diplomatic type people. So but I think some of those goals at that time were pretty hard to attain by, you know, by an individual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly by an individual, right. How does it change your life, looking back on it? What do you think? How did it change your life? And how did it maybe influence your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably wouldn't have been an anthropologist. I wouldn’t have gone back. I wouldn't have probably. I went into public health. You know, I studied community health at University of California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did? Where did you do your women's health, here at UF [University of Florida]? Or did you do the women’s health there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Part of what I did there was well baby clinics and maternity clinics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew you were a public health nurse. I didn't realize you trained in public health."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.29826997441009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably wouldn't have been an anthropologist. I wouldn’t have gone back. I wouldn't have probably. I went into public health. You know, I studied community health at University of California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did? Where did you do your women's health, here at UF [University of Florida]? Or did you do the women’s health there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Part of what I did there was well baby clinics and maternity clinics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew you were a public health nurse. I didn't realize you trained in public health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The master’s says it was in community health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I didn't know that. But you're a women's health nurse practitioner? So where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.109188860455653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Part of what I did there was well baby clinics and maternity clinics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew you were a public health nurse. I didn't realize you trained in public health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The master’s says it was in community health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I didn't know that. But you're a women's health nurse practitioner? So where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I had to piece that together, because really weren’t many programs. But they were doing prenatal clinics, nurse run prenatal clinics and nurse run well baby clinics in California when I came back. And of course they gave me East San Jose, which was all Spanish speaking. So yes, I think it really changed the trajectory quite a bit, you know, and then subsequently I did a lot of other international stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you would have gotten a Ph.D. in something else or you might have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.899098733839615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The master’s says it was in community health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I didn't know that. But you're a women's health nurse practitioner? So where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I had to piece that together, because really weren’t many programs. But they were doing prenatal clinics, nurse run prenatal clinics and nurse run well baby clinics in California when I came back. And of course they gave me East San Jose, which was all Spanish speaking. So yes, I think it really changed the trajectory quite a bit, you know, and then subsequently I did a lot of other international stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you would have gotten a Ph.D. in something else or you might have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have gotten a Ph.D. and I might have gotten that even in anthropology, because I was kind of looking at that when I got out, before I graduated at University of Utah. But I don't know if I would have done the international piece. And I don't know. It's hard to say, but I think it definitely changed what I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can't imagine that it wouldn't have had a huge impact on you. I'm just looking to see if there's anything else that I didn't do. It says in first year end of tour, notable events, reflections, joys and woes, unexpected events, relationships, health problems. So were there notable events besides the one we've already talked about in that first year? And then in the second year, the one thing you did say was that transition from counting the days to go home to not wanting to leave. When did that occur about that, was that near the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.776776370932904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I had to piece that together, because really weren’t many programs. But they were doing prenatal clinics, nurse run prenatal clinics and nurse run well baby clinics in California when I came back. And of course they gave me East San Jose, which was all Spanish speaking. So yes, I think it really changed the trajectory quite a bit, you know, and then subsequently I did a lot of other international stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you would have gotten a Ph.D. in something else or you might have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have gotten a Ph.D. and I might have gotten that even in anthropology, because I was kind of looking at that when I got out, before I graduated at University of Utah. But I don't know if I would have done the international piece. And I don't know. It's hard to say, but I think it definitely changed what I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can't imagine that it wouldn't have had a huge impact on you. I'm just looking to see if there's anything else that I didn't do. It says in first year end of tour, notable events, reflections, joys and woes, unexpected events, relationships, health problems. So were there notable events besides the one we've already talked about in that first year? And then in the second year, the one thing you did say was that transition from counting the days to go home to not wanting to leave. When did that occur about that, was that near the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, you just didn't realize it crept up on you. But one notable thing happened at the end is that I was all prepared to go and the plane never left Santa Cruz on time. And this time they said, just call, don't go out there, just call. Well, I got out there and they wouldn't let me get on because I wasn't there an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were late?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.751973745481003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have gotten a Ph.D. and I might have gotten that even in anthropology, because I was kind of looking at that when I got out, before I graduated at University of Utah. But I don't know if I would have done the international piece. And I don't know. It's hard to say, but I think it definitely changed what I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can't imagine that it wouldn't have had a huge impact on you. I'm just looking to see if there's anything else that I didn't do. It says in first year end of tour, notable events, reflections, joys and woes, unexpected events, relationships, health problems. So were there notable events besides the one we've already talked about in that first year? And then in the second year, the one thing you did say was that transition from counting the days to go home to not wanting to leave. When did that occur about that, was that near the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, you just didn't realize it crept up on you. But one notable thing happened at the end is that I was all prepared to go and the plane never left Santa Cruz on time. And this time they said, just call, don't go out there, just call. Well, I got out there and they wouldn't let me get on because I wasn't there an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were late?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hadn’t left and it didn't leave for another 30 or 40 minutes, but they wouldn't let me get on, which meant they probably sold my seat to somebody else. But so I missed all my flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.057748606090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, you just didn't realize it crept up on you. But one notable thing happened at the end is that I was all prepared to go and the plane never left Santa Cruz on time. And this time they said, just call, don't go out there, just call. Well, I got out there and they wouldn't let me get on because I wasn't there an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were late?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hadn’t left and it didn't leave for another 30 or 40 minutes, but they wouldn't let me get on, which meant they probably sold my seat to somebody else. But so I missed all my flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to stay extra days in Lima, Peru, which I wasn't planning on. And then when I finally got to Miami, I was going to go to the World's Fair because it was 1964 and it was up in New York or somewhere up there. And I got to Miami and I said, eh, I don't think so. So I changed my flight and I went by way of Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. And then I took the train home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went home. Did you stay at home for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.286387340100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hadn’t left and it didn't leave for another 30 or 40 minutes, but they wouldn't let me get on, which meant they probably sold my seat to somebody else. But so I missed all my flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to stay extra days in Lima, Peru, which I wasn't planning on. And then when I finally got to Miami, I was going to go to the World's Fair because it was 1964 and it was up in New York or somewhere up there. And I got to Miami and I said, eh, I don't think so. So I changed my flight and I went by way of Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. And then I took the train home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went home. Did you stay at home for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I couldn’t stay home very long because I had to go to summer school at Berkeley, the University of California Berkeley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd already applied while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.651541489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to stay extra days in Lima, Peru, which I wasn't planning on. And then when I finally got to Miami, I was going to go to the World's Fair because it was 1964 and it was up in New York or somewhere up there. And I got to Miami and I said, eh, I don't think so. So I changed my flight and I went by way of Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. And then I took the train home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went home. Did you stay at home for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I couldn’t stay home very long because I had to go to summer school at Berkeley, the University of California Berkeley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd already applied while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied and they told me I could have, you know, an assistantship because they were trying to, you know, they were really interested in some of these people coming out of the Peace Corps at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's really fascinating. Are there any other things that you can think of that we didn't cover?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.162396900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied and they told me I could have, you know, an assistantship because they were trying to, you know, they were really interested in some of these people coming out of the Peace Corps at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's really fascinating. Are there any other things that you can think of that we didn't cover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the interesting things when I was in Santa Cruz was the fact that you could go out in the boonies to the Okinawan colony or one of these other Chinese colonies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chinese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had Chinese, they had Okinawans. Because they came in and they settled and they raised all these vegetables. So you could go out the middle of the boonies and you could go to a restaurant that had excellent Oriental food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. That's terrific."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.180441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the interesting things when I was in Santa Cruz was the fact that you could go out in the boonies to the Okinawan colony or one of these other Chinese colonies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chinese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had Chinese, they had Okinawans. Because they came in and they settled and they raised all these vegetables. So you could go out the middle of the boonies and you could go to a restaurant that had excellent Oriental food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did go over one Christmas to Argentina and Uruguay because I went with one of the ladies I knew who lived in Argentina. And then I just went on over to Uruguay because I wanted to look around there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to come home at all during the two years? You stayed down there the whole time? Wow, that is an immersion experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.20049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had Chinese, they had Okinawans. Because they came in and they settled and they raised all these vegetables. So you could go out the middle of the boonies and you could go to a restaurant that had excellent Oriental food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did go over one Christmas to Argentina and Uruguay because I went with one of the ladies I knew who lived in Argentina. And then I just went on over to Uruguay because I wanted to look around there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to come home at all during the two years? You stayed down there the whole time? Wow, that is an immersion experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. And the interesting thing was I had got a bunch of clothes made because you’d get them made pretty cheap. But then I got to San Francisco and I realized that my tastes, because they were influenced by Bolivia, it was so garish you could not wear these shiny. I mean, nice fabrics. But they're way too lavish for San Francisco at the time. And the other thing I didn't realize, the reverse culture shock was very difficult. I actually felt very insecure if I didn't have a chaperone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s interesting too. I never thought about that. But there was a reversal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought maybe it was, I thought maybe it was just me, you know, but because it was like she was deliberately not, just didn't seem to get what. Because I was doing some alternative kinds of things, because I was working with the Hispanic population, Mexican population, and it didn't, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the definition of cultural competence though, when you know how to do that, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, what they were concerned about me going there and having coffee and talking to people after hours. Well, how else are you going to talk to the dad? And if you go to somebody's house, they offer you things like that. If I had not had coffee or whatever, they would have not been as, you know, compliant and we wouldn't have been able to communicate as well. And I did get him there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, that's such a public health concept that you have to fit into their realm of what’s acceptable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was taken aback because I was expecting a little bit more understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have expected that too, especially from that university."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, what they were concerned about me going there and having coffee and talking to people after hours. Well, how else are you going to talk to the dad? And if you go to somebody's house, they offer you things like that. If I had not had coffee or whatever, they would have not been as, you know, compliant and we wouldn't have been able to communicate as well. And I did get him there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, that's such a public health concept that you have to fit into their realm of what’s acceptable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was taken aback because I was expecting a little bit more understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have expected that too, especially from that university."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, it was different. I don't know. But in all and all, I wouldn’t trade the experience of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, I always thought it would be a neat experience. I never had the guts. I think you have to be somebody who is a risk-taker to do that. And it sounds like you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00251:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was taken aback because I was expecting a little bit more understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have expected that too, especially from that university."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, it was different. I don't know. But in all and all, I wouldn’t trade the experience of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, I always thought it would be a neat experience. I never had the guts. I think you have to be somebody who is a risk-taker to do that. And it sounds like you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess I probably still am a risk-taker to a certain extent. But I really wouldn’t change it. And it's interesting because when I get together with my Peace Corps volunteer friends, you know, we did last year. I think we had 20 some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the 30? Wow. That's pretty amazing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 59.73061106031347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a CapCom?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think when they began what we called integrated simulation, we spent as much time, maybe more time than the crew, supporting the crew. In that I mean that we would arrive an hour before the simulation would begin, ensure that all the people were there. We’d go through the scripts. In some cases we’d go through the scripts to see what specifically—what this particular mission was, and prepare ourselves such that when the crew got in the simulator, we would be in place and ready to support.\\n\\n Now, the integrated simulations were probably a third of the total simulation time that the crews spent in preparation. I’m not sure about that number, but that sounds about right. But it was not a single crew, and so there would be several crews in preparation. So the mission control team was there for quite a long time, because they would just move from crew to crew to crew. Eventually you would know that you were working on a specific crew, and you would devote most of your time in preparation of that particular crew. I remember spending long hours in mission control, but coming out each time just feeling refreshed. It was very exciting. It was very exciting to do it, working with the teams and working with the Flight Directors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What shifts did you typically work on while you were CapCom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the first one I was ascent or entry; I did not do on-orbit. Then I believe that after that, I was the Lead CapCom, so I was responsible for all phases of flight, but still would generally only work the ascent and entry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help train anyone while you were serving as the Lead CapCom?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.594120402962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think in many cases it is. Let me say—I think I will qualify it by saying that sometimes astronauts believe that they are bulletproof. What I found was that astronauts and their families will accept a much higher level of risk than a normal person will, and even when they relax, they are still at a higher level of risk acceptance that the normal person might consider almost excessive. So when an astronaut leaves the astronaut program, in one way or another, it takes a while to jack them down, because they will tend to make a decision based on their level of risk acceptance that they did in the office, and that’s not necessarily what we want. We need a kind of a calmer look, a more rational look at some of the decisions that we’re making.\\n\\n But as I look at the astronauts who are at NASA Headquarters and those who are Center Directors, like Roy [D.] Bridges [Jr.], each of them has come down and can look in a balanced way at the risk versus the benefit, and I am very pleased with the decision-making that’s going on right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let’s stop and I’ll put in the new tape.\\n\\n [Tape change]\n\nI was looking on your NASA bio sheet, and it indicated that you were the Chief of Astronaut Training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that and what that entailed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was primarily the coordinator of the training that all astronauts needed before they could fly, and so I had a syllabus that described the courses. I knew the availability of the training facilities or devices, and would so schedule the astronauts into those facilities, with instructors as necessary. I think it was not a difficult role, and as such, I kept a record of the progress and would certify that training had been completed and that it had been satisfactorily completed. Though I did not have a signature that said, “And they are certified to fly,” the records that I kept would so demonstrate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work specifically with the classes that came through?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.77124489218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that and what that entailed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was primarily the coordinator of the training that all astronauts needed before they could fly, and so I had a syllabus that described the courses. I knew the availability of the training facilities or devices, and would so schedule the astronauts into those facilities, with instructors as necessary. I think it was not a difficult role, and as such, I kept a record of the progress and would certify that training had been completed and that it had been satisfactorily completed. Though I did not have a signature that said, “And they are certified to fly,” the records that I kept would so demonstrate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work specifically with the classes that came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when a new class would come in, we would just start again with “This is a football.” [Laughs] And work the welcoming, several months of teaching people the NASA acronyms, and arranging for trips for the new astronauts to see the facilities in NASA. But I was primarily responsible for the academic training and the simulation training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work in conjunction with those various offices? When a new class would come through, say, they needed training on the SMS [Shuttle Mission Simulator], or they needed to work SAIL [Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.9680498802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was primarily the coordinator of the training that all astronauts needed before they could fly, and so I had a syllabus that described the courses. I knew the availability of the training facilities or devices, and would so schedule the astronauts into those facilities, with instructors as necessary. I think it was not a difficult role, and as such, I kept a record of the progress and would certify that training had been completed and that it had been satisfactorily completed. Though I did not have a signature that said, “And they are certified to fly,” the records that I kept would so demonstrate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work specifically with the classes that came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when a new class would come in, we would just start again with “This is a football.” [Laughs] And work the welcoming, several months of teaching people the NASA acronyms, and arranging for trips for the new astronauts to see the facilities in NASA. But I was primarily responsible for the academic training and the simulation training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work in conjunction with those various offices? When a new class would come through, say, they needed training on the SMS [Shuttle Mission Simulator], or they needed to work SAIL [Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do the technical. I didn’t do the technical training, which the SAIL would have been. I did the straight simulation and academic training, so these were classes that were taught. These were simulations that were single-system. They started with single-system trainers, and then they went to multisystem trainers, and then they would graduate eventually into running in the Shuttle Mission Simulator in the fixed base over there.\\n\\n But I knew that they had to get from this point to this point, and they had these classes and courses and things they had to do, and all I did was schedule them and assure that they got there and that the training for that particular activity was successfully completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your bio sheet also indicates that served as a member of the Orbiter Configuration Board."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.075610978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when a new class would come in, we would just start again with “This is a football.” [Laughs] And work the welcoming, several months of teaching people the NASA acronyms, and arranging for trips for the new astronauts to see the facilities in NASA. But I was primarily responsible for the academic training and the simulation training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work in conjunction with those various offices? When a new class would come through, say, they needed training on the SMS [Shuttle Mission Simulator], or they needed to work SAIL [Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do the technical. I didn’t do the technical training, which the SAIL would have been. I did the straight simulation and academic training, so these were classes that were taught. These were simulations that were single-system. They started with single-system trainers, and then they went to multisystem trainers, and then they would graduate eventually into running in the Shuttle Mission Simulator in the fixed base over there.\\n\\n But I knew that they had to get from this point to this point, and they had these classes and courses and things they had to do, and all I did was schedule them and assure that they got there and that the training for that particular activity was successfully completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your bio sheet also indicates that served as a member of the Orbiter Configuration Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the PRCB [Program Requirements Control Board]. That was a decision-making board run by the Program Manager, and on the board there were representatives from the multiple disciplines, and I was the astronaut representative. So any issue that came up that needed a decision would pass through this board, and so I was just the voting member from the Astronaut Office. I guess I did that for a year or maybe longer than that. It was an exciting view, from the program management point of view, of the entire system, so I saw all aspects of the mission preparation and those things that needed to be prepared for, for a down-the-line mission. It was a pretty exciting time. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you served on that board?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.306234420000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do the technical. I didn’t do the technical training, which the SAIL would have been. I did the straight simulation and academic training, so these were classes that were taught. These were simulations that were single-system. They started with single-system trainers, and then they went to multisystem trainers, and then they would graduate eventually into running in the Shuttle Mission Simulator in the fixed base over there.\\n\\n But I knew that they had to get from this point to this point, and they had these classes and courses and things they had to do, and all I did was schedule them and assure that they got there and that the training for that particular activity was successfully completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your bio sheet also indicates that served as a member of the Orbiter Configuration Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the PRCB [Program Requirements Control Board]. That was a decision-making board run by the Program Manager, and on the board there were representatives from the multiple disciplines, and I was the astronaut representative. So any issue that came up that needed a decision would pass through this board, and so I was just the voting member from the Astronaut Office. I guess I did that for a year or maybe longer than that. It was an exciting view, from the program management point of view, of the entire system, so I saw all aspects of the mission preparation and those things that needed to be prepared for, for a down-the-line mission. It was a pretty exciting time. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you served on that board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] Let me see. I think it—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not very good with dates, either."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.6735938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the PRCB [Program Requirements Control Board]. That was a decision-making board run by the Program Manager, and on the board there were representatives from the multiple disciplines, and I was the astronaut representative. So any issue that came up that needed a decision would pass through this board, and so I was just the voting member from the Astronaut Office. I guess I did that for a year or maybe longer than that. It was an exciting view, from the program management point of view, of the entire system, so I saw all aspects of the mission preparation and those things that needed to be prepared for, for a down-the-line mission. It was a pretty exciting time. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you served on that board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] Let me see. I think it—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not very good with dates, either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it preceded Challenger, but I’m not certain; could have been after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was another board you served on, which was the Shuttle Program Board."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.192882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] Let me see. I think it—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not very good with dates, either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it preceded Challenger, but I’m not certain; could have been after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was another board you served on, which was the Shuttle Program Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be; I can’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you’d like, we can start talking about your next mission and then pick it up next time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 16.88098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it preceded Challenger, but I’m not certain; could have been after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was another board you served on, which was the Shuttle Program Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be; I can’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you’d like, we can start talking about your next mission and then pick it up next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you remember where you were when you found out that you were going to be commanding your first mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.312200000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be; I can’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you’d like, we can start talking about your next mission and then pick it up next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you remember where you were when you found out that you were going to be commanding your first mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been at Kennedy, and I’d come in late in the evening. When I arrived back at Aircraft Ops [Operations], in my little bin that I put my helmet in, there was a little message that said, “Call Don [Donald R.] Puddy,” who was the Chief of Flight Crew Operations at that time. And I did, and he so informed me that I was going to be—first of all, he said, “You’re going to be on the mission,” and then he said, “And you’re going to command it,” so I was excited. So, I mean, it was very late at night, and I can remember talking to Puddy and having him tell me that.\\n\\n I went home, and I don’t believe that I told my wife immediately. You know, I wanted to really milk it a little bit, and I did. [Laughs] And I told her, and then the next day went in and assembled the crew and kind of gave them the vision according to Fred.\\n\\n We created an amazing—it was an amazing crew. I had a pilot, Dave [S. David] Griggs, Navy pilot, who unfortunately was killed in an airplane accident, so I had the rare chance to actually pick a pilot, and I chose John [E.] Blaha as my pilot. So I had “Sonny” [Manley L.] Carter [Jr.] and Kathy [Kathryn C.] Thornton and—Sonny and Kathy and Blaha, and I’ll think of the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[F.] Story Musgrave."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not even considered it. Somebody told me that after the fact. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean after the fact. I mean, it wasn’t something that was vaguely important to me. It was just not important to me. Somebody later told me, “You know, you were the first pilot,” and then, “Oh, by the way, you were the first commander.”\\n\\n And it was like, “Yeah, I guess that’s true,” and that’s as far as it went. I have never, never said it, but people always tell me. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there wasn’t any sort of media interest in this sort of first for the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall. I can go back and look at a lot of the news articles, but I don’t recall it being in there, and if it was, I probably didn’t pay any attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were just so focused on the mission at hand."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall. I can go back and look at a lot of the news articles, but I don’t recall it being in there, and if it was, I probably didn’t pay any attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were just so focused on the mission at hand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely. Yes. All of us were so focused on achieving the objectives of the mission and returning safely that I don’t think we even entered into these little parochial issues that may have been important to some people. It just wasn’t important to me.\\n\\n We had Kathy Thornton with us, and I absolutely insisted that she be the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] person, over great protest, and I just insisted. So I don’t know if Kathy even concerned herself with, “I’m a woman and I’m going to do an EVA.” It was just not a big deal. On the outside they were concerned about it, but inside, Kathy, K.T., was the appropriate person to do it, so we just did it. Then she subsequently did another EVA. And I don’t think—if we had not insisted, probably a person of her size would never have done something like this. Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan had done it, but Kathy was a larger woman and could fit into the suits that we have. But Kathy Thornton was not, so we had to really force the issue.\\n\\n But it was not an issue that we want Kathy to do this because she’s a woman; it was we wanted Kathy to do it because she was the appropriate one to do it. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, it seemed to. [Laughs] So we had Kathy and Sonny doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you for your time today. I really appreciate your patience, first of all—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00202:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely. Yes. All of us were so focused on achieving the objectives of the mission and returning safely that I don’t think we even entered into these little parochial issues that may have been important to some people. It just wasn’t important to me.\\n\\n We had Kathy Thornton with us, and I absolutely insisted that she be the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] person, over great protest, and I just insisted. So I don’t know if Kathy even concerned herself with, “I’m a woman and I’m going to do an EVA.” It was just not a big deal. On the outside they were concerned about it, but inside, Kathy, K.T., was the appropriate person to do it, so we just did it. Then she subsequently did another EVA. And I don’t think—if we had not insisted, probably a person of her size would never have done something like this. Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan had done it, but Kathy was a larger woman and could fit into the suits that we have. But Kathy Thornton was not, so we had to really force the issue.\\n\\n But it was not an issue that we want Kathy to do this because she’s a woman; it was we wanted Kathy to do it because she was the appropriate one to do it. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, it seemed to. [Laughs] So we had Kathy and Sonny doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you for your time today. I really appreciate your patience, first of all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—especially with the equipment, and taking the time to spend with me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 54, "return_to_go": 119.10062527906373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you for making room, thank you for moving back your other things. This is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, thank you for making room for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We got through [Space Shuttle STS-51L] Challenger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got through Challenger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because we talked about the redesigned SRB [solid rocket booster] and your role in that, I wanted to ask you about Max Q [astronaut band]. I thought that was a unique thing to happen after Challenger."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 98.24522236798535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember, yes. I hate to think what my flight plan that flew on Challenger and my flight plan that flew on Columbia—and has all my notes from six days and eight days of space—would go for on eBay or someplace like that. I bet those would be quite valuable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a lot of cash. Very, very valuable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope NASA doesn’t ever come back to me and say, “We want them back.” I don’t know where they are. I think I’ve lost them all. I don’t know what happened to it in all the moves that we did subsequently, so I don’t know where they are now.\\n\\n Those are family treasures, I think; [that] is what I think they are. I can’t picture ever selling things. I will admit I have taken checklist pages out of some of those checklists—like one of the small checklists—and had it framed with a bunch of photographs and things from the mission, and given those as gifts. I’ve done probably six or seven of those.\\n\\n I have also, for good causes had those framed, like for Space Camp, for them to auction off. They bring a fair amount of money, and it’s to support scholarships to Space Camp, which helps kids. I have not sold anything. I’ve given some things away but not very many. But anyway, that’s the story on checklists and things that we weren’t supposed to be allowed to keep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hadn’t heard that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have cue cards. I have my launch cue cards, because they weren’t going to get used again. They said “STS-11” on them. Oh yes, because our name changed to 41B. But they didn’t go back and change all of our checklists, so they said STS-11, which theoretically never existed, because it became 41B. I’m sure those would be some real collector things, but I’m not going to sell them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything that’s flown in space is a real collector’s item."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 109.16135818665039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope NASA doesn’t ever come back to me and say, “We want them back.” I don’t know where they are. I think I’ve lost them all. I don’t know what happened to it in all the moves that we did subsequently, so I don’t know where they are now.\\n\\n Those are family treasures, I think; [that] is what I think they are. I can’t picture ever selling things. I will admit I have taken checklist pages out of some of those checklists—like one of the small checklists—and had it framed with a bunch of photographs and things from the mission, and given those as gifts. I’ve done probably six or seven of those.\\n\\n I have also, for good causes had those framed, like for Space Camp, for them to auction off. They bring a fair amount of money, and it’s to support scholarships to Space Camp, which helps kids. I have not sold anything. I’ve given some things away but not very many. But anyway, that’s the story on checklists and things that we weren’t supposed to be allowed to keep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hadn’t heard that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have cue cards. I have my launch cue cards, because they weren’t going to get used again. They said “STS-11” on them. Oh yes, because our name changed to 41B. But they didn’t go back and change all of our checklists, so they said STS-11, which theoretically never existed, because it became 41B. I’m sure those would be some real collector things, but I’m not going to sell them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything that’s flown in space is a real collector’s item."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything else you wanted to make note of, asking about 27?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven’t talked about the mission, but the only other thought was you mentioned training, but we didn’t talk about the changes, mainly the bailout system, the launch/entry suit. Did that complicate your training and things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 64.44267074490202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they didn’t want us to stand out, once again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other place we went was we went to CIA [Central Intelligence Agency] Headquarters [Langley, Virginia]. When we were finally allowed to have possession of our medals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that. Do you finally have that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They pointed out that we are to point out any time we talk about it this was not a CIA mission, this was a DOD mission. The CIA can award a medal that the DOD doesn’t have, and they wanted us to have that very special medal. It was called the National Intelligence Achievement Medal. So I’ve tried to tell my wife I therefore must have achieved intelligence because this is the National Intelligence Achievement Medal. She of course says, “No, you haven’t, Robert.”\\n\\n Judge William [H.] Webster was the Director of the CIA then, and we had, oh, just a delightful time in their big conference room with them. We had coffee and doughnuts in there; they took a bunch of photos and things. Then Mullane tells the story in his book as well. They pinned the medal on us on our [coats and ties], and that’s in the photos as well. I should send you some of those, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those have been declassified as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.329396899999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody always wants more time in space, not less time in space. They budget enough consumables for mission duration plus two. So they design in two waveoff days, two extra days.\\n\\n We pushed that on 61C because we wound up going into the third day. However, we launched, and we were originally scheduled to be five days. They shortened us to four days, and then with the waveoffs that we got, we wound up extending into six days. So we actually wound up pushing the three-day thing, and that’s what led to the song that we sang for Mission Control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I still have. I remember you sent that to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, did I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On tape? Or how did I send?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you sent an MP3 [digital audio file]. I remember listening to it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.810440999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, did I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On tape? Or how did I send?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you sent an MP3 [digital audio file]. I remember listening to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have it on my [Apple] iPad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that was it. Maybe you just played it for me at the end of our last session."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.90049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On tape? Or how did I send?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you sent an MP3 [digital audio file]. I remember listening to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have it on my [Apple] iPad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that was it. Maybe you just played it for me at the end of our last session."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I actually have it digitally. [U.S. Congressman] Bill Nelson sent us a longer version of it. What I have starts with [CapCom] Shannon [W.] Lucid saying, “Well, if you don’t have anything else, we’ll sign off for the night.”\\n\\n I said, “Well, we do have just one more thing.”\\n\\n She said, “Well, we’re standing by.”\\n\\n Then we sang the song. Bill Nelson had a little bit longer one that started off a little before it, and then it had a little bit after it as well. I don’t have that on my iPad. I have that on my computer at home. Anyway, that was the song for the extra days.\\n\\n The food that they stow is just benchmarked for mission duration, so if you slide into a waveoff day or two waveoff days, you are expected just to work out of the pantry where they store extra food. And also go back through all the meals, because not everybody always ate everything that was on their list. You just make do for the extra day or two beyond mission duration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys have different food because you had a Japanese astronaut on board? Did he bring up some delicacies from his country?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was certainly a center of attention everywhere we went. I’m trying to remember if we went—I’m not sure we went back to the Cape after the mission. Everybody kind of separated and went their separate ways. After she flew her flight, she was in the process of leaving, so she stayed for that one mission and then went off to do something else. So I don’t remember us doing a whole lot of public appearances here in the U.S. with her, although she’s always been a focus of attention of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very well-spoken, and good public speaker. I just wanted to ask one more question. That was something I noticed, that you had noticed an anomaly on your mission. There was something protruding from the rudder before you were getting ready to prepare for landing. You asked Mission Control to take a look. Wondered if you would talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had forgotten about that. We took some photos of it, I know. We probably sent them down some video of it. It was some sort of a seal or a thermal barrier that was protruding. It wound up not being much of an issue at all. I don’t remember if it was still on the orbiter when we landed or not. It hasn’t really stuck in my mind a whole lot after that.\\n\\n Anything protruding you would worry about during the reentry. Of course on the top side of the orbiter, it’s somewhat protected by all the rest of the orbiter leading the way during reentry. So it’s not like having an anomaly on the bottom side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t as concerned as the previous mission with those tiles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Somebody had mentioned to me, “You’re the 50th mission. We lost the 25th. Is it every 25 launches?” Somebody had mentioned that to me before the mission.\\n\\n I said, “No, that’s superstition. That’s silly.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that enter your mind at all when you were in orbit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had forgotten about that. We took some photos of it, I know. We probably sent them down some video of it. It was some sort of a seal or a thermal barrier that was protruding. It wound up not being much of an issue at all. I don’t remember if it was still on the orbiter when we landed or not. It hasn’t really stuck in my mind a whole lot after that.\\n\\n Anything protruding you would worry about during the reentry. Of course on the top side of the orbiter, it’s somewhat protected by all the rest of the orbiter leading the way during reentry. So it’s not like having an anomaly on the bottom side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t as concerned as the previous mission with those tiles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Somebody had mentioned to me, “You’re the 50th mission. We lost the 25th. Is it every 25 launches?” Somebody had mentioned that to me before the mission.\\n\\n I said, “No, that’s superstition. That’s silly.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that enter your mind at all when you were in orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all, didn’t even enter my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might actually be a good place for us to stop so we could pick up being chief of the Astronaut Office. …"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Somebody had mentioned to me, “You’re the 50th mission. We lost the 25th. Is it every 25 launches?” Somebody had mentioned that to me before the mission.\\n\\n I said, “No, that’s superstition. That’s silly.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that enter your mind at all when you were in orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all, didn’t even enter my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might actually be a good place for us to stop so we could pick up being chief of the Astronaut Office. …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Let me share a little bit before I go.] What happened very shortly after that mission was I [hear] the rumor that said, “Hey, the rumor mill is out there that says you’re going to be the next chief.” I said, “Really? After I’ve been grounded?” To myself.\\n\\n It stood to reason, because Dan Brandenstein had been the first pilot astronaut to fly four missions, and I was the second pilot astronaut to fly four missions. So at that point I am the most experienced pilot in the corps, so it stood to reason that that could be the case, and sure enough it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’ll be good for us to talk about next time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00225:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Let me share a little bit before I go.] What happened very shortly after that mission was I [hear] the rumor that said, “Hey, the rumor mill is out there that says you’re going to be the next chief.” I said, “Really? After I’ve been grounded?” To myself.\\n\\n It stood to reason, because Dan Brandenstein had been the first pilot astronaut to fly four missions, and I was the second pilot astronaut to fly four missions. So at that point I am the most experienced pilot in the corps, so it stood to reason that that could be the case, and sure enough it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’ll be good for us to talk about next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so glad I got to do that. It was probably the hardest I ever worked in the whole time I was at NASA, but it was such a rewarding experience, and it was such a difficult experience at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’ll be interesting to talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. I’ll look forward to it next time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00405:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is your most significant contribution to the test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s pretty minor actually, I think. For most of this test I was just an orchestrator. I was just directing a lot of really smart people and very dedicated people to do what they do. My part of it I feel was pretty inconsequential compared to what I saw a lot of people doing through this test. I can’t thank those people enough for the dedication they had and the commitments that they made to make this test a success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that this will be your last project of this type? Will you be retiring soon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope not. I’m working on some new programs. WFIRST [Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope] is a very exciting program with some really fantastic science. Not only in dark energy, which is its main thrust, but also the possibility to fly a coronagraph for the first time in space is very exciting.\\n\\n As we start to think about future systems, with respect to the 2020 decadal survey for example, I think planet finding could be—it’s certainly in the mix—a very exciting science. I think the public is very enamored. The big question, “Are we alone?” Flying a coronagraph and getting that on-orbit experience I think is going to be very exciting.\\n\\n There’s programs called LISA [Laser Interferometer Space Antenna], which looks at gravity waves. They’ve verified gravity waves on the ground with LIGO [Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory], and the sensitivity we’d get in space would be phenomenal. There’s some really fantastic science being thought about, being planned. There’s the four decadal studies going on right now from x rays out to far IR. Yes, I’d certainly like to be involved in helping get some of these new programs started, getting WFIRST well on its way. I hope I’m not done yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sound like you’ve had a great career. Before I let you go—I apologize, I’ve run over by just a couple minutes—are there any other people you think that we might want to talk to to capture some of this history?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00405:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Lee [D.] Feinberg, Charlie [Charles B.] Atkinson. Probably Allison [A.] Barto, Mark [F.] Voyton, Juli [A.] Lander, Ritva Keski-Kuha I think would be some great folks to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, always like to ask people. Conrad Wells had given me your name, and so I wanted to just have other people weigh in. I wanted to ask though, before we closed out today—was there anything else, or something that you wanted to talk about that we did not cover that we should know about the test, or your involvement that you wanted to put on the recording?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I think we did a pretty good job of covering everything that I can think of. Is there any other directions you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered the highlights. As we move through we’ll have different questions for different people. You’re the first interview for this project. We will learn more about the test, we’re interviewing Jonathan [L.] Homan on Thursday. I think we’ll get a different aspect there and see what comes of that.\\n\\n I really do want to thank you for your time today. Like I said, we’ll be sending you a copy of the transcript so you get a chance to review and edit. If there’s anything you want to add, feel free. I appreciate your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Good luck with your upcoming projects, they sound fascinating."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00405:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I think we did a pretty good job of covering everything that I can think of. Is there any other directions you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered the highlights. As we move through we’ll have different questions for different people. You’re the first interview for this project. We will learn more about the test, we’re interviewing Jonathan [L.] Homan on Thursday. I think we’ll get a different aspect there and see what comes of that.\\n\\n I really do want to thank you for your time today. Like I said, we’ll be sending you a copy of the transcript so you get a chance to review and edit. If there’s anything you want to add, feel free. I appreciate your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Good luck with your upcoming projects, they sound fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, have a good day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00606:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 29.8160995004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and of course Shuttle was not necessarily thrilled with the concept. They had been sort of merrily going along, flying Spacelab [habitat module] and various things at 28.5 degree inclination, and now here’s this other program coming in and saying we need more performance, and can you make significant mods [modifications]? There was a lot of tension at first between the programs. Is this even possible, and where’s the money coming from, and how do we get this done? There was a pretty clear mandate that we would indeed get the Shuttle to 51.6 degrees, and so there were modifications made on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty interesting time period. Then Shuttle-Mir [Program, ISS Phase One], the in-between."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Shuttle-Mir was in that era. I don’t remember when Shuttle-Mir started flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Around ’94, somewhere in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably right about when Alpha was formalized, and flew through much of it. Somewhere around ’95 or ’96 I went from Integrated Performance and Assembly, which was in the Vehicle Office, to the Deputy Vehicle Manager. At that time, the Vehicle Office had really all of the development for Space Station. We hadn’t separated out OM [Systems Engineering and Integration Office]. In today’s org [organizational] structure, what I initially did is really OM’s function now.\\n\\n Then we hadn’t separated out Software and Avionics, so OD [Avionics and Software Office] was part of that as well. Really, at that point, OB, the Vehicle Office included what today is OB, OD, and OM. Station was the first human spaceflight program that I’m aware of that set up an ops function within the program office. There was a little bit of stress around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a big culture change here at the Center to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00606:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.679164000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there until [ISS Assembly Mission] 2A [STS-88] flew. That was December ’98. Stayed through them, and at that point decided I was ready for a change, and went over to Engineering. I actually spent about the first 15 years of my career on Space Station in some form, in various different forms, and then after that went over to Engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you were able to stay until you got to see the first couple of modules go up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, that was a special moment, seeing the 2A launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us where you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For 2A I went down [to Cape Canaveral, Florida] for launch. I would say probably most of the leadership team did at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a celebration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00606:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.087960000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, that was a special moment, seeing the 2A launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us where you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For 2A I went down [to Cape Canaveral, Florida] for launch. I would say probably most of the leadership team did at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a celebration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s such a huge milestone, such a huge celebration. We all went down for the launch. Some folks went to the control room [NASA Kennedy Space Center (KSC) Launch Control Center], some folks went to the Banana Creek viewing stand. I went to Banana Creek, so I watched it from there. Just an incredible experience to see the fruition of so much work.\\n\\n Of course, it kept dragging out. Originally it was supposed to be considerably earlier than ’98. We had welding problems—it’s amazing to me. We always seem to be surprised when we have welding problems. We had welding problems on Orion too, and yet every major spacecraft we—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably Apollo, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00606:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 26.764400000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For 2A I went down [to Cape Canaveral, Florida] for launch. I would say probably most of the leadership team did at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a celebration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s such a huge milestone, such a huge celebration. We all went down for the launch. Some folks went to the control room [NASA Kennedy Space Center (KSC) Launch Control Center], some folks went to the Banana Creek viewing stand. I went to Banana Creek, so I watched it from there. Just an incredible experience to see the fruition of so much work.\\n\\n Of course, it kept dragging out. Originally it was supposed to be considerably earlier than ’98. We had welding problems—it’s amazing to me. We always seem to be surprised when we have welding problems. We had welding problems on Orion too, and yet every major spacecraft we—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably Apollo, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. All kinds of schedule problems. It seemed like it was a very long time coming. It was wonderful to finally see it launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on those 15 years, what do you think was the biggest challenge that you and/or the program had to face as it was moving toward actually being put into space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00923:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 32, "return_to_go": 83.14074275162451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don't. I haven't had much contact with Congress; no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I was just curious about that. You've done work with satellites. Have you done any work with the Space Shuttle and maybe some of the flight crews in terms of just Earth observations of the Arctic or Antarctic ice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't actually done that either, although one of my good friends from Goddard became an astronaut, [Dr.] Piers [J.] Sellers. So that's cool to see him as an astronaut and watch his missions in particular. But no, I haven't done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I was just curious if the Shuttle had contributed at all to your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not directly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shall we turn our attention to the Aqua Satellite?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 70.17033231883016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, now I knew what that was. The first node. In fact Bill Shepherd was on that first crew that went up and crewed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We found it very interesting that you were there for the first flight for the Shuttle-Mir Phase 1 Program and then yet you got to go back for the first flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was there for the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course there were differences because you had all that set up, but tell us about being there for that, because it’s such a historic time of launching a whole new program with an international partner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it was. You knew you were starting something really big that was going to last a long time. I had gotten to know the Russians so well, and gotten so involved in their program, that it was almost like losing a family member when they had to get rid of the Mir. The decision was made to get rid of the Mir and we hated to see that go, but everybody was on board with going ahead and building the Space Station. So I got to go back over there and lead the flight control team for the first Space Station flight. I was over there for the first couple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have new members of your team?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5874900000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would go in there and they would tell them all these clearances are too tight. You’ve got to open this up, or these latches, it’ll never work this way. You [have] to change these latches. It was just that kind of stuff all the time. They took ownership of that telescope and they made them make it like it ought to be made and did a great job. Great job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one other question for you. That’s Charlie [Charles F.] Bolden [Jr.] was on that flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Charlie was on that flight. That’s where I first got to know Charlie, one of the best human beings on the planet. Charlie is just a great guy, a great guy to work with. Interesting to see how things happen. Now he’s the [NASA] Administrator. I saw him about two or three FRRs [Flight Readiness Review] ago. The first joint FRR we had down at the Cape after he got named Administrator, I bumped into him in the hallway. I was kidding him about you’ve really done it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a big-time commander now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he’s got his hands full, that’s for sure. I’d be more than happy to help Charlie any way I could. All he’s got to do is call or ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he’d be glad to know that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9861000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Charlie was on that flight. That’s where I first got to know Charlie, one of the best human beings on the planet. Charlie is just a great guy, a great guy to work with. Interesting to see how things happen. Now he’s the [NASA] Administrator. I saw him about two or three FRRs [Flight Readiness Review] ago. The first joint FRR we had down at the Cape after he got named Administrator, I bumped into him in the hallway. I was kidding him about you’ve really done it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a big-time commander now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he’s got his hands full, that’s for sure. I’d be more than happy to help Charlie any way I could. All he’s got to do is call or ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he’d be glad to know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I already told him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Is there anything else that you’d like to add? Is there anything that we didn’t get to cover that you thought about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he’s got his hands full, that’s for sure. I’d be more than happy to help Charlie any way I could. All he’s got to do is call or ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he’d be glad to know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I already told him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Is there anything else that you’d like to add? Is there anything that we didn’t get to cover that you thought about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything. I’ve pretty much told you my whole life or all that I’m going to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Share with us] what you’re doing to help prepare the Shuttle [for retirement]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I already told him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Is there anything else that you’d like to add? Is there anything that we didn’t get to cover that you thought about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything. I’ve pretty much told you my whole life or all that I’m going to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Share with us] what you’re doing to help prepare the Shuttle [for retirement]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our main focus is flying the program out. I have a deputy, Bill Hollister. I basically divided the work with him. I said because of my experience, I’ve been in the Shuttle Program forever, I will focus mostly on trying to fly the Shuttles out. I’ve split the workload with him to start focusing on the future, because he will be here in the future and I won’t be. He’s working the new business aspects and trying to figure out what new businesses we can get into and how we can evolve into future work, so that’s how we’re preparing. It’s going to be tough. We’ve told all of our people that there’s a cliff out there. When the program ends, a bunch of people are going to fall off the cliff, because right now we don’t have the work. Until contracts get put in place, that’s the thing you learn on the contractor side real fast, is no contract, no work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No funding. That’s right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything. I’ve pretty much told you my whole life or all that I’m going to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Share with us] what you’re doing to help prepare the Shuttle [for retirement]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our main focus is flying the program out. I have a deputy, Bill Hollister. I basically divided the work with him. I said because of my experience, I’ve been in the Shuttle Program forever, I will focus mostly on trying to fly the Shuttles out. I’ve split the workload with him to start focusing on the future, because he will be here in the future and I won’t be. He’s working the new business aspects and trying to figure out what new businesses we can get into and how we can evolve into future work, so that’s how we’re preparing. It’s going to be tough. We’ve told all of our people that there’s a cliff out there. When the program ends, a bunch of people are going to fall off the cliff, because right now we don’t have the work. Until contracts get put in place, that’s the thing you learn on the contractor side real fast, is no contract, no work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No funding. That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That takes time. Takes a long time. That’s the scariest part of this whole upheaval, is the timing. They waited so late from the time this Administration started to pick an Administrator, then to come out with what they wanted to do with NASA. They waited so late now that there’s so little time between now and the end of the program and the end of this fiscal year, there’s not enough time to get redirected and get new contracts in place. So there’s going to be a big disruption in the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of challenges before you move on to your next adventure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our main focus is flying the program out. I have a deputy, Bill Hollister. I basically divided the work with him. I said because of my experience, I’ve been in the Shuttle Program forever, I will focus mostly on trying to fly the Shuttles out. I’ve split the workload with him to start focusing on the future, because he will be here in the future and I won’t be. He’s working the new business aspects and trying to figure out what new businesses we can get into and how we can evolve into future work, so that’s how we’re preparing. It’s going to be tough. We’ve told all of our people that there’s a cliff out there. When the program ends, a bunch of people are going to fall off the cliff, because right now we don’t have the work. Until contracts get put in place, that’s the thing you learn on the contractor side real fast, is no contract, no work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No funding. That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That takes time. Takes a long time. That’s the scariest part of this whole upheaval, is the timing. They waited so late from the time this Administration started to pick an Administrator, then to come out with what they wanted to do with NASA. They waited so late now that there’s so little time between now and the end of the program and the end of this fiscal year, there’s not enough time to get redirected and get new contracts in place. So there’s going to be a big disruption in the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of challenges before you move on to your next adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a simple solution, but I don’t know that anybody’ll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to share that with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That takes time. Takes a long time. That’s the scariest part of this whole upheaval, is the timing. They waited so late from the time this Administration started to pick an Administrator, then to come out with what they wanted to do with NASA. They waited so late now that there’s so little time between now and the end of the program and the end of this fiscal year, there’s not enough time to get redirected and get new contracts in place. So there’s going to be a big disruption in the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of challenges before you move on to your next adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a simple solution, but I don’t know that anybody’ll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to share that with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll watch for that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a simple solution, but I don’t know that anybody’ll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to share that with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll watch for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I’m not king."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but as you mentioned, you’ve had really good fate, so you just never know what’s going to come around the next turn."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00482:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll watch for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I’m not king."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but as you mentioned, you’ve had really good fate, so you just never know what’s going to come around the next turn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never know. Never know. Yes, it’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much for coming in as often as you have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.187739742587922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hello."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First of all, thank you for agreeing to share your Peace Corps story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And before we begin, let our listeners know where are you from and where did you come from? And you can tell us more about your family or your educational background before Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was born in Stuttgart, Germany, because my dad was in the Army there, but only lived there for about six months. Otherwise, I grew up pretty much completely in the Chicago area, mostly in the suburb of Arlington Heights. I've got two younger sisters. I went to elementary, middle, high school there in Illinois and then went to Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, for four years for a bachelor's, for a liberal arts degree. I majored in psychology. And Grinnell is a very progressive, social justice oriented school. And I think even before that, I already had a very much of a social justice bend. But Grinnell certainly nourishes that in people. So while I was there my senior year, I applied for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.764155269542135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And before we begin, let our listeners know where are you from and where did you come from? And you can tell us more about your family or your educational background before Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was born in Stuttgart, Germany, because my dad was in the Army there, but only lived there for about six months. Otherwise, I grew up pretty much completely in the Chicago area, mostly in the suburb of Arlington Heights. I've got two younger sisters. I went to elementary, middle, high school there in Illinois and then went to Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, for four years for a bachelor's, for a liberal arts degree. I majored in psychology. And Grinnell is a very progressive, social justice oriented school. And I think even before that, I already had a very much of a social justice bend. But Grinnell certainly nourishes that in people. So while I was there my senior year, I applied for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. There must have been a recruiter that came to campus or something. I don't remember for sure but, or something in the career development office where I went in to supposed to be writing resumes. And I knew I wanted to go to grad school, but I knew I didn't want to go right away. I'd had 16 years straight of education and I wanted a break. I wanted to do something else for a while and then specialize. That's why I got a liberal arts degree thinking, okay, I just want a very general education background first, and then in grad school I'll specialize in a real specific field. So Peace Corps was a perfect two year interlude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the impetus behind you actually picking up the phone or picking up the paperwork in order to apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.124150692793986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. It was a lot of pages, I remember, of application. Oh, yeah. Pages and pages of things to fill out. And then they wanted, yeah, a medical background to make sure that I was healthy and ready for this. It was funny, my senior year in college as I was applying, they said, oh, well, we might want to send you. I was partway through the application process, you know, as my senior year of school was going on. And they said, well, if we want to send you as an education volunteer, as a math and science teacher, you need more math. I said, um, I've already had calculus and everything else. I can't imagine I'm going to go to a third world country and be teaching something more advanced than that. And they said, oh no, if you are going to go as a math teacher. I had a lot of science already, but they said you need more math.\n\nSo they said I had to take linear algebra and differential equations my senior year. I was a second semester senior. I was like, um, I'm really not very into this, you know. I really don't think I need this. I was not motivated. So I eventually dropped it, I think, to a pass fail or something. And that still satisfied Peace Corps that I'd technically taken it, but sure enough, yeah, I got to my village and I was teaching basic arithmetic, not differential equations, and it was kind of funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So back then, Peace Corps actually made recommendations for your education, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was, um, after you've submitted your application, how long did it take for you to actually receive a response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.582389658659984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was, um, after you've submitted your application, how long did it take for you to actually receive a response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.20265517628887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.780727973654303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.534142192949226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.482380214388026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, training and all of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.535978015986696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, training and all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.817753351096329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, training and all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had studied Spanish through middle school, high school, college, had studied in Colombia, had studied in Spain, was fairly fluent enough. Um, certainly spoke Spanish better than I spoke Sesotho, like most people, because nobody speaks Sesotho if you don't live there. Um, but again, for medical reasons they had limited me to non-malarial countries. So I was like, okay, we're not going to use my Spanish skills. So it was a little bit odd. But, um, see I had, I'm sure when I was graduating college I already knew what I was doing. So otherwise it would have been very scary to graduate college and say, I don't know where I'm going next, you know? So sometime during my senior year I must have had my invitation to serve and accepted.\n\nBut then there was about an eight, six month lag? Graduation would have been in May or June. And based on the Lesotho school calendar, their training schedule was that training started around Thanksgiving. So I had the, the summer and the part of the fall before I was going to report for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was your initial meeting with your future group, service group, and the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.908614834551477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had studied Spanish through middle school, high school, college, had studied in Colombia, had studied in Spain, was fairly fluent enough. Um, certainly spoke Spanish better than I spoke Sesotho, like most people, because nobody speaks Sesotho if you don't live there. Um, but again, for medical reasons they had limited me to non-malarial countries. So I was like, okay, we're not going to use my Spanish skills. So it was a little bit odd. But, um, see I had, I'm sure when I was graduating college I already knew what I was doing. So otherwise it would have been very scary to graduate college and say, I don't know where I'm going next, you know? So sometime during my senior year I must have had my invitation to serve and accepted.\n\nBut then there was about an eight, six month lag? Graduation would have been in May or June. And based on the Lesotho school calendar, their training schedule was that training started around Thanksgiving. So I had the, the summer and the part of the fall before I was going to report for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was your initial meeting with your future group, service group, and the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in Atlanta. There was about a week there. It was called Crest, C-R-E-S-T, at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what it stood for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.232857820433923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in Atlanta. There was about a week there. It was called Crest, C-R-E-S-T, at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what it stood for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm sure I did at the time. Peace Corps has got so many acronyms. I bet the S-T is stateside training. Probably. That's my guess. I know it was CREST and it was about a week in Atlanta. So that's where I first met up with everybody. We did about a week there of training, learning a little bit about the host country, a bunch of sessions to talk with other people about, okay, why am I doing this? And it was a real good chance, I think, from Peace Corps' point of view too, for people to back out before they actually get sent on a plane to the other side of the planet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many of you were at that initial meeting, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many actually got on the plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.258730911593247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm sure I did at the time. Peace Corps has got so many acronyms. I bet the S-T is stateside training. Probably. That's my guess. I know it was CREST and it was about a week in Atlanta. So that's where I first met up with everybody. We did about a week there of training, learning a little bit about the host country, a bunch of sessions to talk with other people about, okay, why am I doing this? And it was a real good chance, I think, from Peace Corps' point of view too, for people to back out before they actually get sent on a plane to the other side of the planet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many of you were at that initial meeting, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many actually got on the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.176367679548052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many actually got on the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.195964088386726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds, smells. What did you see?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.21773787598525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds, smells. What did you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it that stood out to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.241930973316945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds, smells. What did you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it that stood out to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.379923303685494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it that stood out to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.311025892983881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two months of training there, six days a week. Um, it was pretty intense. It was pretty intense. I know that they'd. The groups before ours had had even more intense training with more sessions and it burnt people out and people had started to skip sessions and everything. So they were a little easier on us, but it was still living in pretty close quarters, you know, four women to a room or so. It was a, like a Catholic mission that Peace Corps was also using. The Peace Corps was kind of helping support it and had the ability to use the facilities. So there was like a dining hall where we had our meals and we had people who did our laundry, which was very nice. And we had language training and then what they called technical training.\n\nSo for those of us who are educational volunteers, they were teaching us. A lot of us didn't have an education background. So they're teaching us how to write a test, how to plan a lesson, you know. How to make visual aids when you have almost no resources at your disposal. And then the agriculture volunteers had their own technical training in terms of agricultural stuff. So yeah, language training and then cultural training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of the 40 of you, you were either in the education or the agricultural program? Or was there another sector that arrived with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.012250992204313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two months of training there, six days a week. Um, it was pretty intense. It was pretty intense. I know that they'd. The groups before ours had had even more intense training with more sessions and it burnt people out and people had started to skip sessions and everything. So they were a little easier on us, but it was still living in pretty close quarters, you know, four women to a room or so. It was a, like a Catholic mission that Peace Corps was also using. The Peace Corps was kind of helping support it and had the ability to use the facilities. So there was like a dining hall where we had our meals and we had people who did our laundry, which was very nice. And we had language training and then what they called technical training.\n\nSo for those of us who are educational volunteers, they were teaching us. A lot of us didn't have an education background. So they're teaching us how to write a test, how to plan a lesson, you know. How to make visual aids when you have almost no resources at your disposal. And then the agriculture volunteers had their own technical training in terms of agricultural stuff. So yeah, language training and then cultural training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of the 40 of you, you were either in the education or the agricultural program? Or was there another sector that arrived with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, those are the two groups. The majority of us, probably 25, 28 of us or something like that were education volunteers. And then there was a, maybe a third or so of the group were, they were called AFSI at the time. I think it stood for African, I don't know. AFSI. African Food System Initiative possibly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your technical training like? What did that entail in addition to the curriculum development and testing? Can you describe what that was like to help prepare you for your next two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.657099990375695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, those are the two groups. The majority of us, probably 25, 28 of us or something like that were education volunteers. And then there was a, maybe a third or so of the group were, they were called AFSI at the time. I think it stood for African, I don't know. AFSI. African Food System Initiative possibly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your technical training like? What did that entail in addition to the curriculum development and testing? Can you describe what that was like to help prepare you for your next two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, not much was on subject matter because they figured we already knew about science or math or whatever. We were there to teach. Maybe knew more, like I said, more math or science than we were actually going to be able to teach. So it was more, yeah, what would someone, say, who had been an education major would have learned. Again, yeah, curriculum planning, how to write a lesson plan, you know, how to plan out an introductory activity and a wrap up. And so how to present material, how to create a test that is fair and reasonable. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that for you, that situation, or rather that, that training and how did you take to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.618999989306328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, not much was on subject matter because they figured we already knew about science or math or whatever. We were there to teach. Maybe knew more, like I said, more math or science than we were actually going to be able to teach. So it was more, yeah, what would someone, say, who had been an education major would have learned. Again, yeah, curriculum planning, how to write a lesson plan, you know, how to plan out an introductory activity and a wrap up. And so how to present material, how to create a test that is fair and reasonable. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that for you, that situation, or rather that, that training and how did you take to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fairly well. Fairly well. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's go back to cultural training or language training. How was your language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.465555543673696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fairly well. Fairly well. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's go back to cultural training or language training. How was your language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It, it was good in that we had native speakers training us. That's very important. And they were very patient. But it was based on a model that was very auditory. And I'm not an auditory learner. I'm a visual learner. I didn't really know that at the time. I think I was figuring it out, though, because they, for some reason had this policy where the trainers really were not allowed to write anything down for us. We were supposed to just listen, you know. Whoever had designed this curriculum or this methodology was apparently an auditory learner. And they're like, oh, maybe everybody is an auditory learner. People should just hear the language, which is fine if you're a baby or a toddler, you can just hear a language and you soak it up. But as an adult, not so much, not for some of us at least.\n\nLuckily, I was 22 at the time. The volunteers that were older had a much harder time learning the language. And I didn't need to become fluent since secondary school education, which is where I was going, is officially taught in English in Lesotho. So even if I didn't really speak Sesotho, it technically didn't matter. But to get around in the village, it, it certainly was helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your language training was only in Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.377991143585318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. They could speak English with us. They just weren't supposed to write anything. And I just needed to see it to learn it, to remember it. Whether it was spelled phonetically or spelled properly didn't matter so much. I just needed to see it. So finally I started, they would say something and I would write it out phonetically for myself and make myself little mnemonics. Like I remember I had, um, the phrase that we needed first was ha ke bue Sesotho, I don't speak Sesotho. Because they, they taught us all the traditional greetings which you need at any time you're walking and you'd meet someone and you needed to say in the native language, hello, how are you? I am fine, thank you. How are you? So once you say that to somebody, though, in their language, they think, oh, you speak my language. And they go, ba ba ba ba, you know, and start speaking to me. So the next thing you had to know how to say was, I don't actually speak Sesotho, so stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said that was ha ke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ha ke bue Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll just close this door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.531101270650353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ha ke bue Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll just close this door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So ke, that means to speak?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.812334745167059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll just close this door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So ke, that means to speak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.79148305018562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So ke, that means to speak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.879425611317355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.088250679241506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.431389643601673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was helpful, I. Yeah. I did not learn the language as fluently as a lot of other people. Um, partly, I think, because my village was close to the capital. So there were more people in my village who spoke English than in some of the more remote parts of the country. Um. And again, as an education volunteer, I technically didn't need the language skills to do my job. But of course you do need the language skills to go to the shop in the village and buy something or to talk to your neighbors if they don't speak English and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your cross-cultural training? What was that like for you and what did it entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.923766270668525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was helpful, I. Yeah. I did not learn the language as fluently as a lot of other people. Um, partly, I think, because my village was close to the capital. So there were more people in my village who spoke English than in some of the more remote parts of the country. Um. And again, as an education volunteer, I technically didn't need the language skills to do my job. But of course you do need the language skills to go to the shop in the village and buy something or to talk to your neighbors if they don't speak English and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your cross-cultural training? What was that like for you and what did it entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I don't remember a lot of details, but I think kind of some role play about, you know, how people interact, you know, how to show respect to the village chief and the headmaster of your school and things like that. And they made sure we learned that, I mean, at that point in Lesotho women did not wear pants. Absolutely did not wear shorts. But even pants was not acceptable. Once in a while in the capital, say, you'd see a woman wearing pants. Otherwise, prostitutes wore pants. That was it. You women didn't wear pants. So whether you were teaching or climbing a mountain or cleaning your house or anything, we wore skirts. So that was a pretty important cultural thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did your group, how did the women of your group adjust to that? And how was it, how did it affect those who came with a lot of clothes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.967612679837684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I don't remember a lot of details, but I think kind of some role play about, you know, how people interact, you know, how to show respect to the village chief and the headmaster of your school and things like that. And they made sure we learned that, I mean, at that point in Lesotho women did not wear pants. Absolutely did not wear shorts. But even pants was not acceptable. Once in a while in the capital, say, you'd see a woman wearing pants. Otherwise, prostitutes wore pants. That was it. You women didn't wear pants. So whether you were teaching or climbing a mountain or cleaning your house or anything, we wore skirts. So that was a pretty important cultural thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did your group, how did the women of your group adjust to that? And how was it, how did it affect those who came with a lot of clothes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure they told us ahead of time so we didn't come with suitcases full of pants and no skirts and then be up a creek. So, yeah, we knew what, what we were getting into and that it, you know, kind of like if you go to a Muslim country and you need to keep your head covered or whatever the customs are, it's like this is just the way it works here. And it's amazing what you get used to. Yeah, I could do anything in a skirt. Yeah, really. Climbing mountains and whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ride a bike."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I didn't have a bike, but I would have certainly done it. Absolutely. Um. yeah. And it's pretty nice actually. A skirt keeps you cooler in the summer, I think, and can keep you warmer in the winter, especially with a slip under it and everything, since you're being really modest. So, yeah, it was, it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were some of the other things in terms of the way you live your life? The way you, for example, eat? The way you use the restroom. What were certain things that you had to adjust to? And how did you take that adjustment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.858882304279353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, which was ooh la la. Luxury to have a private outhouse with walls and a little tin roof, you know. But most people did not have that. They either didn't have any type of outhouse or if they did, they shared it with lots and lots and lots and lots of other people. So I had to share mine just with a black widow spider that was in there one time. But yeah, there was a little lock on it because otherwise the whole village would have been using it, you know? So that was a little different. Yeah, you get used to that. And it gets cold in Lesotho, so it's, that was an adjustment too, living without heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can you describe this outhouse to your listeners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a toilet you could sit on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was. Snow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.065424782532615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a toilet you could sit on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was. Snow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.40602753614735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was. Snow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the same in Roma?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.895586151274834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the same in Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.217317945860927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the same in Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a village in Roma?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.685908828734362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a village in Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, nearby. Some, not too far away, but yeah, outside of the village of Roma, but some other village nearby hosted us. And it was still pretty posh because we weren't totally alone. We were most or all of us in the same village and pretty much, I think two of us per household, say. So you still had somebody else right there with you, you know, one of your friends, one of your fellow trainees. But it was, yeah, eye opening, like, oh, this is what village life is really like. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's think more about the time you had in training before you went to your village. What were some of the things that you did or found yourself doing once you became more comfortable in your environment? Did you explore the community? Did you go out dancing? What were some of the things that you did during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.095454254149292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a village in Roma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, nearby. Some, not too far away, but yeah, outside of the village of Roma, but some other village nearby hosted us. And it was still pretty posh because we weren't totally alone. We were most or all of us in the same village and pretty much, I think two of us per household, say. So you still had somebody else right there with you, you know, one of your friends, one of your fellow trainees. But it was, yeah, eye opening, like, oh, this is what village life is really like. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's think more about the time you had in training before you went to your village. What were some of the things that you did or found yourself doing once you became more comfortable in your environment? Did you explore the community? Did you go out dancing? What were some of the things that you did during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We made our own fun basically. The truth is there was no place to much to go. We could walk into the village, into town, to buy beer mostly. And then, yeah, pretty much just on the campus where we were training, we had parties, had our own little Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations and, and things like that and really, really bonded. I mean, it's amazing the bond we all formed during those two months. Priceless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is your first year really now away from home during these holidays. How did you all take that or handle that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.994387968085546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We made our own fun basically. The truth is there was no place to much to go. We could walk into the village, into town, to buy beer mostly. And then, yeah, pretty much just on the campus where we were training, we had parties, had our own little Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations and, and things like that and really, really bonded. I mean, it's amazing the bond we all formed during those two months. Priceless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is your first year really now away from home during these holidays. How did you all take that or handle that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. It was probably a little sad for all of us. Again, most of us were 22 right out of college. 22, 23 was probably the average age with just a few, couple of people in their thirties maybe. Two couples probably in their thirties, two married couples, and then a couple retired volunteers that were older. But otherwise, yeah, we were young. It was our first time, for a lot of us, probably not spending Christmas. Thanksgiving some of us had maybe stayed at college, but, but Christmas not being with our families. So it was perfect in a way. The training fell over that major holiday because we all had it together, you know.\n\nAnd we, one of the volunteers dressed up as Santa and a bunch of us dressed up as elves, and we used a big agave flower stalk as a Christmas tree in the corner. And we made ornaments. I'm sure Barb and Cindy and other elementary school teachers that were very crafty helped us with glitter and crayons and whatever. And we had a lot of fun. We did a Secret Santa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now your training is all over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the steps that we're taking in terms of the next 24 months of your life. Did you have a choice in the matter as to where you would be going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.578399585559431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The village is called Ha Moruthane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you spell that please?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The Ha is H-A, the first word, which means like the place of. And then Moruthane, M-O-R-U-T-H-A-N-E, which is the name of the chief's family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And earlier you mentioned the capital name as well. Can you repeat that name and provide a spelling before we continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The capital of Lesotho is Maseru. M-A-S-E-R-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so now you're here in Ha Mahtani?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.590616772295594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The capital of Lesotho is Maseru. M-A-S-E-R-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so now you're here in Ha Mahtani?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moruthane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moruthane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.545129746995103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moruthane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moruthane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, um, it was crazy. The, the. The chief called me Dr. Deena. I kept trying to explain to him I have a bachelor's degree, not a PhD or an MD or anything like that. I'm not actually a doctor. Oh, but you are so well educated, Dr. Deena, we are so honored to have you here. And, yeah, even with just my little liberal arts bachelor's degree, it was much more, much more educated than anyone else in the village had, master, chief, anybody. So, yeah, they were really amazing to me and treated me with so much respect. And I was like, I'm just a 22 year old kid, you know? But it was really beautiful.\n\nThey threw me a big welcome celebration. They killed a cow for me, which is a big deal. You know, people don't eat meat most of the time. You slaughter one of the cows once in a while for a wedding or a funeral or some other big, big deal. And they killed a cow for this. And everybody pitched in and made this big feast and had a big ceremony. My APCD, associate Peace Corps director, for education came to this big event and the chief presented me with a blanket, a traditional wearing blanket called a kobo, K-O-B-O, which I still have and will treasure always. And a traditional Basotho hat, that kind of triangular cone shaped hat. Yeah. And made speeches and it was incredible. Very humbling. Quite an honor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that festival, festive occasion."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.605699718883448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, um, it was crazy. The, the. The chief called me Dr. Deena. I kept trying to explain to him I have a bachelor's degree, not a PhD or an MD or anything like that. I'm not actually a doctor. Oh, but you are so well educated, Dr. Deena, we are so honored to have you here. And, yeah, even with just my little liberal arts bachelor's degree, it was much more, much more educated than anyone else in the village had, master, chief, anybody. So, yeah, they were really amazing to me and treated me with so much respect. And I was like, I'm just a 22 year old kid, you know? But it was really beautiful.\n\nThey threw me a big welcome celebration. They killed a cow for me, which is a big deal. You know, people don't eat meat most of the time. You slaughter one of the cows once in a while for a wedding or a funeral or some other big, big deal. And they killed a cow for this. And everybody pitched in and made this big feast and had a big ceremony. My APCD, associate Peace Corps director, for education came to this big event and the chief presented me with a blanket, a traditional wearing blanket called a kobo, K-O-B-O, which I still have and will treasure always. And a traditional Basotho hat, that kind of triangular cone shaped hat. Yeah. And made speeches and it was incredible. Very humbling. Quite an honor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that festival, festive occasion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't find the words."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, it was humbling, yes. But how did it make you feel to, to have the respect of the people? And what was going through your mind at the time, if you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.677327866610563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, I guess, prepare for the school year and how was your first day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I can't specifically remember my first day of school. I do remember my first day getting to my village. The headmaster and chief had come to the swearing-in ceremony at the ambassador's house in Maseru, in the capital. And then after the ceremony, we all grabbed our luggage and loaded it into the truck of each of our headmasters or whoever had come for us from our village and off we went. And, um, got to the village. They dropped me off by my little, my little house, and helped me carry my stuff in. And some little girls brought me a bucket of water because they knew, well, she doesn't know how to get water yet or whatever. So they brought me a bucket or two of water and then they left.\n\nAnd I remember sitting there going, oh God, what have I done? I guess it was, I remember the cloudy day. I can picture sitting there going, this is surreal. Here I really am. And I probably a couple of days after that before school started. Um. I know that I was, I said, well, I'm supposed to teach English and, excuse me, math and science. That's what Peace Corps officially had sent me for. And they said, well, guess what? You're the only native English speaker, so, uh, you're teaching English too. I said, okay, that does kind of make sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So three subjects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. So. Of different grade levels. I mostly taught the older students because the younger ones, their English really wasn't good enough for them to receive instruction in English. So the older ones theoretically understood if I was teaching them science or math content in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that it was secondary education. What age group is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.235752242196351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did your students receive you your first time around?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They at first were really attentive because it was so novel having me as their teacher compared to their other teachers. Um, and then as they got, you know, as we get to know each other more, they loosened up a little bit and some would misbehave a little of course. I found that even though I did teach in English, mostly because I had to, not being real fluent in Sesotho, and I was supposed to also. But every once in a while to get their attention, I would sneak in some words in Sesotho, and they'd be like, oh, Me Deena spoke Sesotho! Pull everybody's attention back so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's Me Deena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.0397247135515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They at first were really attentive because it was so novel having me as their teacher compared to their other teachers. Um, and then as they got, you know, as we get to know each other more, they loosened up a little bit and some would misbehave a little of course. I found that even though I did teach in English, mostly because I had to, not being real fluent in Sesotho, and I was supposed to also. But every once in a while to get their attention, I would sneak in some words in Sesotho, and they'd be like, oh, Me Deena spoke Sesotho! Pull everybody's attention back so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's Me Deena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Okay. Me Deena."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.821916348390555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Okay. Me Deena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if you were there, you'd be Me Charlaine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And so, um, how? I guess the way I should word this question is, did you have any successes or accomplishments with your students at all? Did they have to take exams?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.691018164878395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Okay. Me Deena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if you were there, you'd be Me Charlaine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And so, um, how? I guess the way I should word this question is, did you have any successes or accomplishments with your students at all? Did they have to take exams?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that go for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.135372907907932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you teach the same students? How did their, um, I guess, their progression system work there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the, there's forms A through E in the secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do the forms represent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.483747675453257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the, there's forms A through E in the secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do the forms represent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I think partly, because I'm an introvert and kept to myself a lot. Partly the language barriers, um, and then also partly that a teacher could only have female friends, a single teacher. It would have been scandalous if I become friends with, say, one of my, one of the male teachers at the school or a male neighbor or something like that. That would have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain the cultural, um, the cultural I guess reason for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.98194186161473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I think partly, because I'm an introvert and kept to myself a lot. Partly the language barriers, um, and then also partly that a teacher could only have female friends, a single teacher. It would have been scandalous if I become friends with, say, one of my, one of the male teachers at the school or a male neighbor or something like that. That would have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain the cultural, um, the cultural I guess reason for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I. Thinking about it now, I guess it would have been assumed that there was an affair going on if a man and a woman who were not married to each other were actually spending time together. Um, yeah, there wasn't really the option of a friendship like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so your headmaster, how did you then create a relationship with him for your, for the purpose of your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.261656619277446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I. Thinking about it now, I guess it would have been assumed that there was an affair going on if a man and a woman who were not married to each other were actually spending time together. Um, yeah, there wasn't really the option of a friendship like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so your headmaster, how did you then create a relationship with him for your, for the purpose of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Pretty much we would only see each other at school. And yeah, so it was, there was no, like after some jobs or whatever. Hey, everybody at work, let's go out for happy hour or let's have a company Christmas party. That's a social thing. There was nothing like that. I think the only social event really in the village besides, say, my welcome banquet, was the. Sometime during my service, I think it was early into my second year, the headmaster of the school married one of the teachers at the school. So there was a whole wedding that was a social event. I was the only one with a camera or who knew how to use a camera, so I was the official photographer. And the chief was the chaplain or whatever his title would have been.\n\nSo we did have that one social event, but otherwise things were pretty much just you went to school, taught, maybe stayed around a little bit for a staff meeting or something like that. But then otherwise everybody pretty much just went home to their each little house and not really other socializing. Which I guess is a lot of the reason that the, all the other volunteers, we would all find ways to gather at different people's places or gather in the capital or something and socialize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And with regards to family dynamics, what did you observe as it pertains to family relationships there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Um. It. I'll have to think about that. For a large. In general, there were not that many adult men around because, again, they were working in the mines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the mines."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.13496219168502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it make you feel and what was that like? Was there another festival for you or a fete I should say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah. No, it was less dramatic certainly leaving. Um. It was. I think I left with mixed emotions. You know, I thought about, well, should I extend for a third year or not? Yeah, I mean, things were going fine. And staying, you know, in hindsight, staying for one more year, it might have been like, okay, I didn't just do 50 percent learning, figuring out what I was doing, and then the other 50 percent of my time actually feeling like I did something. I could have changed that to one third and two thirds and stayed for another year once I was actually in a groove and doing things. But I guess I thought, well, two years is a standard service. It's time, you know, done.\n\nAnd in some ways I guess I'm kind of glad most of my group COSed, closed our service, at the same time. So it was kind of nice to have that. I mean, because we were such a tight group, and still are actually. We still, there's still some of my best friends on the planet and we still have a big reunion every five years, and most of us show up even 30 years later. So, um, closing our service together was nice closure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it like when you returned home? What was your adjustment like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They warned us that the reverse culture shock would probably be harder. Yeah. Than the culture shock when you went, which, at the beginning you're like, what? That can't be. I know how to live in America. It's hard getting used to living in Africa. And it was, of course, hard to get used to living in Africa. But you expect things to be different when you're going to wherever you go. And you think, oh, coming back, no big deal. It was a big deal, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.416241696283949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they remember you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, for a number of reasons. It had been many years. It's not like I came back after just a few years where there would still have been some of the same people. And tragically, I'm sure very, very many of my former students, the teachers I taught with and everything, have perished with AIDS. The AIDS epidemic just destroyed Lesotho. It was not there yet when I was there. And it's getting better now that there's antiretrovirals and all of that. But it absolutely ravished the country. So I have to face the fact that probably a very large percentage of the people that I knew there are no longer here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your, your children respond or react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. They were like little celebrities, even though a lot of years have gone by. Still the kids in the village were not used to white people walking around. And my daughter, with her long, long, very blond hair, it was just like, whoa! You know, you're just, it's just so different from what they're used to, that the kids were following her around. It was very fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you actually stay for a few days there with your children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.291401630000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just realized the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Way back, it's amazing I remember any of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, when. First of all, let me, let me backtrack a bit. When you, when you returned to Lesotho, did anything change? And how long between your leaving and your arrival was that exactly? Do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5943230000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Way back, it's amazing I remember any of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, when. First of all, let me, let me backtrack a bit. When you, when you returned to Lesotho, did anything change? And how long between your leaving and your arrival was that exactly? Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we. I'd always promised the kids I would take them. And I realized as my son, my oldest, was getting near the end of high school. Like, once he goes off to college he may, yeah, he may or may not be back for summers or breaks or whatever. I'm like, eh, we gotta go, you know, before he finishes high school. So it would have been, well. And the seasons being reversed since Lesotho is in the southern hemisphere. I wanted to go when it was summer there, which meant it needed to be winter here. And so we went over Christmas, the kids' Christmas break. And so it would have been Christmas of 2011, so eight years ago. So it had been probably 22 years or something since I'd been there.\n\nAnd some things had changed, certainly. There is now more than one stoplight in the country. When I served, there was one stoplight in the country at the capitol and that was it. But it just, it was so touching how many things had not. You wake up to the sound of chickens running around and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cows mooing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cows mooing. Yep. And people are fetching water and, yeah, so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you say anything changed with the, um, economic challenges that they had in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9683000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cows mooing. Yep. And people are fetching water and, yeah, so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you say anything changed with the, um, economic challenges that they had in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's great progress that at least primary school education is covered for all the kids, so everyone at least has that opportunity. Um. There's a big dam. There's a giant hydroelectric project that's been done that, it's controversial of course, the dam. You know, they drowned a bunch of villages. You know, people had warning, but it's like, okay, your village is now going to be under water. You know, you build a dam on the river and it submerges a big area. So obviously pros and cons to it, but it provides hydroelectric power to Lesotho. Ironically, that I kept talking about not having enough water. But water is one of Lesotho's great wealths because being up in the mountains, you know, the water all runs down from there down into South Africa. So hopefully that's helping somewhat with the economy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you wish to share to your listeners about what your service meant to you? Yeah, just what it meant to you in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Um. Really overall I would say it was just, it's such a blessing to have had that opportunity. Such a gift that, yeah, I mean, you sign up with the intention of going to help, to give of yourself. But I got so much more, yeah, than I could ever, ever give. Just, yeah, and what you learn in the incredible generosity of people, people who have essentially nothing but somehow manage to offer things to you, you know. It's just. And again, yeah, that common humanity, that even when you're someplace where things are so different and people look different and they speak a different language and their houses are different and the food's different, da da da da. It's like, like I said before, we're so fundamentally the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would love to return to the Peace Corps if you could. Where would you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Um. Really overall I would say it was just, it's such a blessing to have had that opportunity. Such a gift that, yeah, I mean, you sign up with the intention of going to help, to give of yourself. But I got so much more, yeah, than I could ever, ever give. Just, yeah, and what you learn in the incredible generosity of people, people who have essentially nothing but somehow manage to offer things to you, you know. It's just. And again, yeah, that common humanity, that even when you're someplace where things are so different and people look different and they speak a different language and their houses are different and the food's different, da da da da. It's like, like I said before, we're so fundamentally the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would love to return to the Peace Corps if you could. Where would you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about a region, then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about a region, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A region? It would. My Spanish skills are even better now than they were then because I use it now for work and all that. So it seems like it would make sense to be someplace where I would already have a decent foundation in the language. Not that great, but could get by. And of course the local dialect and slang and everything would be something to learn, but at least I would have a foundation. So that would kind of make sense. But it's also kind of cool challenge to learn something totally new, you know, to be doing something with a completely different alphabet or whatever. So I'm really open to just about anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier, um, probably not on this recording, I actually do not recall, that you, you pulled out old journals and you looked at them before this interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about a region, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A region? It would. My Spanish skills are even better now than they were then because I use it now for work and all that. So it seems like it would make sense to be someplace where I would already have a decent foundation in the language. Not that great, but could get by. And of course the local dialect and slang and everything would be something to learn, but at least I would have a foundation. So that would kind of make sense. But it's also kind of cool challenge to learn something totally new, you know, to be doing something with a completely different alphabet or whatever. So I'm really open to just about anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier, um, probably not on this recording, I actually do not recall, that you, you pulled out old journals and you looked at them before this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any story you would wish to share that you did not share during this interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00162:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any story you would wish to share that you did not share during this interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Um. Hmm. I'll just give maybe a little shout out to Barbara, who was my roommate even back in Atlanta, the very, very first training. The very first night when she got there, we hit it off right away. I was so thrilled. She was a vegetarian. And we both wanted to live in a little hut and not in a modern house with a tin roof. And yeah, we just clicked immediately. It was just luck that we were assigned to be roommates even back in Atlanta. But she became a super, super dear friend.\n\nAnd people would even accuse us of cheating when we'd play a game, like we'd play, we'd make these homemade Pictionary games. We didn't have one, but we'd use a little slip of papers and write the words and we'd be playing. And be like, you didn't even draw anything! How did she guess it? And we're like, I don't know. We just had this, you know, we would just read each other's mind, one little squiggle. And it's like, how do you know that's South Dakota, you know? So that was really special. A really, really special friendship. But I'll always treasure her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything more you would like to share with your listeners? Anything about your time or how it changed you and or what you're doing today, etcetera, but related to your Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I think we've been really thorough. Your questions have been fabulous, and I, um. That's, that's most of it. Just again, it's a real, a real wonderful opportunity. And if only everyone in the world spent two years in some other country, the world would be such a different place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to end here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00503:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 35.3742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do any manned testing in the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t the test director. We did in manned testing, but I was the customer in the testing. So I didn’t work the test side; I worked the hardware side. I was responsible that the hardware was ready for test, but the test setup and all that was the responsibility of the other side of the house, so I can’t really answer that because I didn’t take that much part in that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I just have a few more questions for you. One of the questions I had relates to the DOD [Department of Defense] flights. Did that have any sort of impact on your facilities at all in terms of flying classified missions, or was that a non [issue]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was not an impact here at all. It changed the way we handled flight data, but that did not affect any of our testing up front."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the ETA last used? You mentioned that they don’t use that anymore. Do you recall the date on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.413898707308757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, it just felt like it was calling me. It was the beginning of the Peace Corps. And I was still a college student with plans to become engaged after graduation and move to Chicago and get married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we all did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the recruiter came to my college, Xavier University of New Orleans, and a friend of mine, Brenda Auguste, and I often talked about wanting to do something, wanting to go places. But we had a life that was pretty organized for us and that we participated in organizing. But the recruiter came that day. It was a Wednesday, I'll never forget it. And talked about the Peace Corps and Kennedy and, um. And basically said the Peace Corps does not have very many African Americans who are beginning to, uh, who are finding interest here or who are, who are joining the Peace Corps, and very much encouraged us to think about it. And I did. And as a matter of fact, I mean, by the time that recruiter got done talking, I knew that this was something for me, that I wanted to do this. And my girlfriend and I talked about it immediately after that time. And we both said this is what we want. And so we joined, both together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she went to Honduras as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people from Xavier go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.459887452565287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the recruiter came to my college, Xavier University of New Orleans, and a friend of mine, Brenda Auguste, and I often talked about wanting to do something, wanting to go places. But we had a life that was pretty organized for us and that we participated in organizing. But the recruiter came that day. It was a Wednesday, I'll never forget it. And talked about the Peace Corps and Kennedy and, um. And basically said the Peace Corps does not have very many African Americans who are beginning to, uh, who are finding interest here or who are, who are joining the Peace Corps, and very much encouraged us to think about it. And I did. And as a matter of fact, I mean, by the time that recruiter got done talking, I knew that this was something for me, that I wanted to do this. And my girlfriend and I talked about it immediately after that time. And we both said this is what we want. And so we joined, both together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she went to Honduras as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people from Xavier go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was a close friend."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.622097169516984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people from Xavier go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was a close friend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.024552410574426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was a close friend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.58283601174936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, yes, absolutely. So there were five of us that went to various to various countries. Brenda and I went to Honduras together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So then where were you trained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.980928901943734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, yes, absolutely. So there were five of us that went to various to various countries. Brenda and I went to Honduras together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So then where were you trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained at Saint Louis University in Saint Louis. The training was phenomenal. Because we were Honduras I, Peace Corps was brand new and our training experience was phenomenal. We just, I just got back from the Honduras, the 50th anniversary, and we, Brenda and I went together and talked about what training was like for us since Peace Corps really didn't know much about what to do, they did everything. So we did some of everything. We had language about 8 to 10 hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you spoken Spanish before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.58075287952678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I just let go. And actually once I let go, the rope pulled me and I was able to bounce off the wall going down. And so I was able to bounce off the side of the dam all the way down. And so I did it. I made it. And by the time I got to the bottom, I felt so brave. I felt like I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was the whole point of that, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was the whole point of that, is that I really felt like I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a real bonding experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.089725421696423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was the whole point of that, is that I really felt like I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a real bonding experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an incredibly, I mean, we still, we still are in touch with each other 50 some years later and, um, yes. I mean, that was an experience that if you made it through that experience and you felt like you were a family to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you got to, so you left Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.54413935744047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a real bonding experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an incredibly, I mean, we still, we still are in touch with each other 50 some years later and, um, yes. I mean, that was an experience that if you made it through that experience and you felt like you were a family to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you got to, so you left Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We left Puerto Rico. We were able to go home for a week. And then we left wherever home was and flew to, uh, where did we? We flew to New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.715710397156077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an incredibly, I mean, we still, we still are in touch with each other 50 some years later and, um, yes. I mean, that was an experience that if you made it through that experience and you felt like you were a family to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you got to, so you left Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We left Puerto Rico. We were able to go home for a week. And then we left wherever home was and flew to, uh, where did we? We flew to New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then together we all flew to Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, and we were in Teguc for three weeks with training there, in-country training, where we met the, all the dignitaries, because it was one. The president's wife, the president of Honduras, his wife, Dona Alejandrina, really sponsored the Peace Corps. And in her country, that was her First Lady job. That's the job she took, was to bring Peace Corps to her country. So she sponsored us and she had parties for us. We met dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from rappelling off dams to the presidential palace."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.795233774617863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We left Puerto Rico. We were able to go home for a week. And then we left wherever home was and flew to, uh, where did we? We flew to New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then together we all flew to Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, and we were in Teguc for three weeks with training there, in-country training, where we met the, all the dignitaries, because it was one. The president's wife, the president of Honduras, his wife, Dona Alejandrina, really sponsored the Peace Corps. And in her country, that was her First Lady job. That's the job she took, was to bring Peace Corps to her country. So she sponsored us and she had parties for us. We met dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from rappelling off dams to the presidential palace."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In that, within a two week period of time, and dressing up and none of us had dress up clothes and but we're trying to make it work. And so we had many parties, many parties. The Hondurans loved to party. And so that all, and the president and the president's first wife, of course, had all kinds of people around her. So the head of the School of Social Work sponsored us a big gathering. So we met all the students and all the professors at the school and we met all the, the Minister of Health and all the doctors. And so it, it was. The social part of it got tarred because it was just day after day after day after day. And because it was the First Lady, everybody wanted to sponsor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is also not a typical Peace Corps experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.772481971797625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then together we all flew to Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, and we were in Teguc for three weeks with training there, in-country training, where we met the, all the dignitaries, because it was one. The president's wife, the president of Honduras, his wife, Dona Alejandrina, really sponsored the Peace Corps. And in her country, that was her First Lady job. That's the job she took, was to bring Peace Corps to her country. So she sponsored us and she had parties for us. We met dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from rappelling off dams to the presidential palace."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In that, within a two week period of time, and dressing up and none of us had dress up clothes and but we're trying to make it work. And so we had many parties, many parties. The Hondurans loved to party. And so that all, and the president and the president's first wife, of course, had all kinds of people around her. So the head of the School of Social Work sponsored us a big gathering. So we met all the students and all the professors at the school and we met all the, the Minister of Health and all the doctors. And so it, it was. The social part of it got tarred because it was just day after day after day after day. And because it was the First Lady, everybody wanted to sponsor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is also not a typical Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it was not. It was not. So being kind of shuffled around and moved around to all of these social functions, as well as being introduced to the School of Social Work and to the Health Department to begin to get familiar with the leadership. So by the time we got to our country, our sites, we actually knew the people who were the heads of the national welfare association and the national health. So that's the, I know that's different for other volunteers because we connected as volunteers on the ground, but we had access to people who were in leadership positions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was everybody in the social work health program or were there other? Were you all in the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.858313301997361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In that, within a two week period of time, and dressing up and none of us had dress up clothes and but we're trying to make it work. And so we had many parties, many parties. The Hondurans loved to party. And so that all, and the president and the president's first wife, of course, had all kinds of people around her. So the head of the School of Social Work sponsored us a big gathering. So we met all the students and all the professors at the school and we met all the, the Minister of Health and all the doctors. And so it, it was. The social part of it got tarred because it was just day after day after day after day. And because it was the First Lady, everybody wanted to sponsor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is also not a typical Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it was not. It was not. So being kind of shuffled around and moved around to all of these social functions, as well as being introduced to the School of Social Work and to the Health Department to begin to get familiar with the leadership. So by the time we got to our country, our sites, we actually knew the people who were the heads of the national welfare association and the national health. So that's the, I know that's different for other volunteers because we connected as volunteers on the ground, but we had access to people who were in leadership positions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was everybody in the social work health program or were there other? Were you all in the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that group, in Honduras I, we were half nurses and half social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is, what was your training at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.064792557774846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it was not. It was not. So being kind of shuffled around and moved around to all of these social functions, as well as being introduced to the School of Social Work and to the Health Department to begin to get familiar with the leadership. So by the time we got to our country, our sites, we actually knew the people who were the heads of the national welfare association and the national health. So that's the, I know that's different for other volunteers because we connected as volunteers on the ground, but we had access to people who were in leadership positions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was everybody in the social work health program or were there other? Were you all in the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that group, in Honduras I, we were half nurses and half social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is, what was your training at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a college degree?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.405325064194272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that group, in Honduras I, we were half nurses and half social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is, what was your training at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a college degree in sociology, psychology. And actually it was in Peace Corps that I got actually the beginning of actual social work training, though I had some of that in college and I am a social worker now. That's after Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that why you are a social worker, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.894805626882524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a college degree in sociology, psychology. And actually it was in Peace Corps that I got actually the beginning of actual social work training, though I had some of that in college and I am a social worker now. That's after Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that why you are a social worker, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have become a social worker anyway, but I think the Peace Corps experience directed my social work training and my interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd prepared for it anyway in undergrad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.54978402986947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a college degree in sociology, psychology. And actually it was in Peace Corps that I got actually the beginning of actual social work training, though I had some of that in college and I am a social worker now. That's after Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that why you are a social worker, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have become a social worker anyway, but I think the Peace Corps experience directed my social work training and my interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd prepared for it anyway in undergrad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as an undergrad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd always do that in grad school, social work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.388648922077188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have become a social worker anyway, but I think the Peace Corps experience directed my social work training and my interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd prepared for it anyway in undergrad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as an undergrad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd always do that in grad school, social work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, um, so then in the beginning you said you were assigned to? I forgot the name of the town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.467467805033566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, um, so then in the beginning you said you were assigned to? I forgot the name of the town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela was the main town up on the north coast that I was assigned to. And I worked in the office, the Bienestar, the social welfare office there mornings. Another person, Kat Marek, worked there for pretty much the day, but I worked there in the morning and then the afternoon, which was my real assignment I think, was with a little Carib village that was about eight, nine kilometers outside Tela. And that's really where I worked. And the Caribs are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what is a Carib?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.963853116703962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela was the main town up on the north coast that I was assigned to. And I worked in the office, the Bienestar, the social welfare office there mornings. Another person, Kat Marek, worked there for pretty much the day, but I worked there in the morning and then the afternoon, which was my real assignment I think, was with a little Carib village that was about eight, nine kilometers outside Tela. And that's really where I worked. And the Caribs are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what is a Carib?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Black, are Black people who were escaped, made up of slaves that escaped slave ships years ago, hundreds of years ago. They left those, got off those ships, landed on the little, a little island out in the Caribbean, fought and conquered the people who lived on that island, who were called Caribs, took the women, came to the north coast of Honduras and set up little villages. So they are a Black people with a different language. They don't, some of them speak Spanish, but many of them, the older people don't. The young people and children usually do, but they learn that in school. They grow up speaking Garifuna, it's called.\n\nSo I worked with that group of people with, and that was one of the best experiences of my life. I drove in the first day and they looked at me like I was something strange. They'd never seen anything that looked like me. Young, black, African American girl in a Peace Corps jeep just driving in and trying to begin to talk to people. People were very, very, um. A lot of older people couldn't speak Spanish. And I had my Peace Corps Spanish, which was young and broken still at that time. But I just kept going every day. And the children began to talk to me. Often the little kids don't speak Spanish either, so I couldn't really talk to them. But we played and we chatted and they liked my jeep. And so I went out every day. I wasn't making much headway though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you supposed to be doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.993222247681698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fronds of the coconut trees, the houses were made up. So they took me in and the old ladies took off all my clothes and checked me out from head to toe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were in fact Black."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was Black all over. And I looked just like them and the paint did not come off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they came out and announced to the people that I was Black and it was okay for them to talk to me. And so I was in. That was how I got in. Peace Corps did not train me to do that. They missed something in the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they consciously assign you because you were Black?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.325802497424109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was Black all over. And I looked just like them and the paint did not come off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they came out and announced to the people that I was Black and it was okay for them to talk to me. And so I was in. That was how I got in. Peace Corps did not train me to do that. They missed something in the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they consciously assign you because you were Black?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I would think a white person would have had much more of a problem."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.69533610824901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they came out and announced to the people that I was Black and it was okay for them to talk to me. And so I was in. That was how I got in. Peace Corps did not train me to do that. They missed something in the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they consciously assign you because you were Black?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I would think a white person would have had much more of a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more to get into that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just fascinated by this. So do you think the president's wife really, I mean, was it a government policy or her idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.105929009165567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I would think a white person would have had much more of a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more to get into that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just fascinated by this. So do you think the president's wife really, I mean, was it a government policy or her idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To reach out to this population?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.451032232406185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more to get into that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just fascinated by this. So do you think the president's wife really, I mean, was it a government policy or her idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To reach out to this population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was our director. Tom Walz was a marvelous man, is a marvelous man. He led our training in Saint Louis. He's connected to Saint Louis University and became the director for the Peace Corps I training. He, so he led there. And while we were in Puerto Rico, he was in Honduras scouting out places where we would be assigned. And he thought I would be the perfect volunteer for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Hondurans, Hispanic Hondurans biased against this group, or were they especially disadvantaged? Isolated?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.149422509143438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was our director. Tom Walz was a marvelous man, is a marvelous man. He led our training in Saint Louis. He's connected to Saint Louis University and became the director for the Peace Corps I training. He, so he led there. And while we were in Puerto Rico, he was in Honduras scouting out places where we would be assigned. And he thought I would be the perfect volunteer for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Hondurans, Hispanic Hondurans biased against this group, or were they especially disadvantaged? Isolated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were isolated, but it was by their choice. They were not isolated by the larger community so much. I mean, this is really a group of people who established themselves on, right on the water. They were fishermen, what they ate. So they were very healthy people. They were strong people. They were a very fun-loving people. Most of the poor people in Honduras are very sick and malnourished and struggling from day to day. That wasn't really true of these people because they stayed isolated, because they ate fish, because they ate coconut, because their diet was so different from the larger population. They were a very healthy people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went to the monte to use the bathroom so that the water didn't get contaminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they knew that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.499358343492709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were isolated, but it was by their choice. They were not isolated by the larger community so much. I mean, this is really a group of people who established themselves on, right on the water. They were fishermen, what they ate. So they were very healthy people. They were strong people. They were a very fun-loving people. Most of the poor people in Honduras are very sick and malnourished and struggling from day to day. That wasn't really true of these people because they stayed isolated, because they ate fish, because they ate coconut, because their diet was so different from the larger population. They were a very healthy people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went to the monte to use the bathroom so that the water didn't get contaminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they knew that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if they knew it or if that just was the way they lived I think in Africa. And so they took that set, that cultural set here. And it worked for them. It kept them healthy. And I think that was their, partly why they didn't mix much with the. They went into town once a week, once a month to get flour, to get cloth, to make clothes, for supplies. But they basically either grew what they needed and they ate food, they ate their basic diet was from the ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they have money? Did they sell their fish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.888175937214121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went to the monte to use the bathroom so that the water didn't get contaminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they knew that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if they knew it or if that just was the way they lived I think in Africa. And so they took that set, that cultural set here. And it worked for them. It kept them healthy. And I think that was their, partly why they didn't mix much with the. They went into town once a week, once a month to get flour, to get cloth, to make clothes, for supplies. But they basically either grew what they needed and they ate food, they ate their basic diet was from the ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they have money? Did they sell their fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They sold their fish. They made, they got flour. They made pan de coco, which is coconut bread. So the women would make coconut bread, they made coconut candy. They made all kinds of things out of coconut. They made baskets out of coconut fronds. They would sell that in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's why they got the money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2090843746823565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if they knew it or if that just was the way they lived I think in Africa. And so they took that set, that cultural set here. And it worked for them. It kept them healthy. And I think that was their, partly why they didn't mix much with the. They went into town once a week, once a month to get flour, to get cloth, to make clothes, for supplies. But they basically either grew what they needed and they ate food, they ate their basic diet was from the ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they have money? Did they sell their fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They sold their fish. They made, they got flour. They made pan de coco, which is coconut bread. So the women would make coconut bread, they made coconut candy. They made all kinds of things out of coconut. They made baskets out of coconut fronds. They would sell that in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's why they got the money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where they got their money from. There were a few of the men from the village who were the probably the families who were better off in the village, who worked as, uh, worked for the United Fruit Company and worked as seamen. And so that they brought, sent money back into the community. But primarily, it was a very subsistence life in the village, but it was a fairly simple life and a healthy life. People were physical and so they were physically healthy. They ate well and they didn't contaminate their water. And so therefore they lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what's happened to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5656493052026184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They sold their fish. They made, they got flour. They made pan de coco, which is coconut bread. So the women would make coconut bread, they made coconut candy. They made all kinds of things out of coconut. They made baskets out of coconut fronds. They would sell that in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's why they got the money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where they got their money from. There were a few of the men from the village who were the probably the families who were better off in the village, who worked as, uh, worked for the United Fruit Company and worked as seamen. And so that they brought, sent money back into the community. But primarily, it was a very subsistence life in the village, but it was a fairly simple life and a healthy life. People were physical and so they were physically healthy. They ate well and they didn't contaminate their water. And so therefore they lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what's happened to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's drugs, all of, uh, all of Honduras and north coast. Drugs has just hit Honduras tremendously. It's why the Peace Corps has, part of why Peace Corps has taken Peace Corps volunteers out of Honduras because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all got wrapped up in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9618325613362426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where they got their money from. There were a few of the men from the village who were the probably the families who were better off in the village, who worked as, uh, worked for the United Fruit Company and worked as seamen. And so that they brought, sent money back into the community. But primarily, it was a very subsistence life in the village, but it was a fairly simple life and a healthy life. People were physical and so they were physically healthy. They ate well and they didn't contaminate their water. And so therefore they lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what's happened to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's drugs, all of, uh, all of Honduras and north coast. Drugs has just hit Honduras tremendously. It's why the Peace Corps has, part of why Peace Corps has taken Peace Corps volunteers out of Honduras because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all got wrapped up in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all got wrapped up, many people got wrapped up in drugs there. They were like, they had so little exposure that once it came in, it just took over. It was like wildfire, which is so sad. It's so sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you were accepted, what did you then do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.402036179262492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's drugs, all of, uh, all of Honduras and north coast. Drugs has just hit Honduras tremendously. It's why the Peace Corps has, part of why Peace Corps has taken Peace Corps volunteers out of Honduras because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all got wrapped up in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all got wrapped up, many people got wrapped up in drugs there. They were like, they had so little exposure that once it came in, it just took over. It was like wildfire, which is so sad. It's so sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you were accepted, what did you then do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what did they do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.891151310291657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all got wrapped up, many people got wrapped up in drugs there. They were like, they had so little exposure that once it came in, it just took over. It was like wildfire, which is so sad. It's so sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you were accepted, what did you then do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what did they do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, we. We did, uh, came together. Pulled together. Probably 40 or 50 people came together. They were ten at election, people voted about. It was about 40 or 50 who became the central kind of operating committee to decide what kind of project they would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they voted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.43461256699073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what did they do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, we. We did, uh, came together. Pulled together. Probably 40 or 50 people came together. They were ten at election, people voted about. It was about 40 or 50 who became the central kind of operating committee to decide what kind of project they would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they voted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they voted. And I set up the wherewithal to do that and procedures and did all that stuff. And we had a real regular voting operation going. And so with that group of about 40, many of whom were men, we, the community decided what they really wanted was a community center and they wanted a place to dance. These Hondurans will have a party at the drop of a hat, and the Caribs love to have parties and they love to dance. And so they would have dances where the entire community would show up. And they just did it on the sand, on the beach. They didn't have a place, so that's what they wanted. And so that's what we decided would be the first thing we would do. It was to figure out how to build a community center.\n\nAnd as part of that organization, I began to talk about what we could do other than dance. We could do classes, we could do immunizations, we could do periodic water testing, we could do, we could do all carpentry workshops, we, things like. They were like, oh yeah, yeah. So we could do other things with this facility. So that's what we did. And it was amazing. I was able to get some donations from the United Fruit Company to lug wood. People."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.454886923169726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I got them to do, to do some donating. And the community had had functions. They sold things. Everybody put in a little money. Then every lady decided when she sold her bread, she would give 1/10 of it to the community center. And other people decided when they caught fish and sold it in town, they would put it in the pot. And so we collected money from the, from the community. We got money donated from outside. I wrote proposals and had meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Highly successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a wonderful experience. And we got that building built. I mean, it was amazing. We had other Peace Corps volunteers from other parts came to help with the actual building, but the men in that community actually built it and they knew how to build it. Our one problem was because that community is on sand. It's right on, the whole communities on the beach. So it was hard to get a foundation built because nothing, they didn't have anything that was up off the ground. And they wanted that because their houses were on the ground, dirt floors. So I was able to write to an architectural firm here in the United States to ask, how would you do this? And they wrote me back and said, told me how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it on stilts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On stilts, on. I was able to get pipes like sewer pipe, water pipes, old discarded pipes from the fruit company that we could fill with concrete and set in concrete. And so that that, we got, were able to get use those as the stilts, which are enormously effective for holding up that building in sand so that it would be strong. Yeah, it was great. People were so excited. I was just thrilled to be able to find that out. I am not handy, but I was able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to organize the people who were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.968996201444106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On stilts, on. I was able to get pipes like sewer pipe, water pipes, old discarded pipes from the fruit company that we could fill with concrete and set in concrete. And so that that, we got, were able to get use those as the stilts, which are enormously effective for holding up that building in sand so that it would be strong. Yeah, it was great. People were so excited. I was just thrilled to be able to find that out. I am not handy, but I was able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to organize the people who were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was able to organize the people who were and that worked. And so we got that building built in about six months to seven months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you left, did another volunteer come in and work with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7433291127156725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was able to organize the people who were and that worked. And so we got that building built in about six months to seven months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you left, did another volunteer come in and work with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that. No, not right away. I think it was two, two Peace Corps volunteers later that somebody actually went there. But people didn't feel like they needed much. I mean, we did. They wanted that center. We got that center built and we began to. CARE donated some sewing machines. We got another organization to donate some toolboxes. So that was the, they stayed in the center so that people from the community were able to come and borrow tools and then bring them back to the center. The center owned them and ladies could come and sew on sewing machines in the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did somebody then run the center?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.603699014128525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you left, did another volunteer come in and work with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that. No, not right away. I think it was two, two Peace Corps volunteers later that somebody actually went there. But people didn't feel like they needed much. I mean, we did. They wanted that center. We got that center built and we began to. CARE donated some sewing machines. We got another organization to donate some toolboxes. So that was the, they stayed in the center so that people from the community were able to come and borrow tools and then bring them back to the center. The center owned them and ladies could come and sew on sewing machines in the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did somebody then run the center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just did it communally?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.559665571253916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that. No, not right away. I think it was two, two Peace Corps volunteers later that somebody actually went there. But people didn't feel like they needed much. I mean, we did. They wanted that center. We got that center built and we began to. CARE donated some sewing machines. We got another organization to donate some toolboxes. So that was the, they stayed in the center so that people from the community were able to come and borrow tools and then bring them back to the center. The center owned them and ladies could come and sew on sewing machines in the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did somebody then run the center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just did it communally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just did it communally, which is how they had always lived. They're very communal in the way. And so they really didn't need or want any boss, anybody running it. They did it themselves and it was wonderful. Wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.510739523615461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just did it communally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just did it communally, which is how they had always lived. They're very communal in the way. And so they really didn't need or want any boss, anybody running it. They did it themselves and it was wonderful. Wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. So we had many, many all-night dances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you commuted from this, from Tela?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.567488359572735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just did it communally, which is how they had always lived. They're very communal in the way. And so they really didn't need or want any boss, anybody running it. They did it themselves and it was wonderful. Wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. So we had many, many all-night dances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you commuted from this, from Tela?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.70060291305276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About eight, about eight kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not far."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I could get there in half an hour on terrible roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you drove a jeep?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.889558792280845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About eight, about eight kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not far."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I could get there in half an hour on terrible roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you drove a jeep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I drove the little Peace Corps, the terribly uncomfortable Peace Corps jeep, but it got me there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where, did you have contact with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.099509769200939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I could get there in half an hour on terrible roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you drove a jeep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I drove the little Peace Corps, the terribly uncomfortable Peace Corps jeep, but it got me there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where, did you have contact with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally our director, Tom Walz, who I mentioned, would come by and he'd often bring another volunteer along who, somebody who needed a break, on his travels. He would bring somebody along. And because we lived on the beach, it was the place everybody wanted to come. Now, we actually got to the beach on weekends, just like everybody else, because we were working. But it was, uh, it was a beautiful, beautiful beach, one of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen in my life. Tall palm trees, white sand, blue turquoise water, beautiful beach. And so it was a great place to have a break, recreation on weekends. And volunteers would often come to see us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friend from school as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.777233076889932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I drove the little Peace Corps, the terribly uncomfortable Peace Corps jeep, but it got me there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where, did you have contact with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally our director, Tom Walz, who I mentioned, would come by and he'd often bring another volunteer along who, somebody who needed a break, on his travels. He would bring somebody along. And because we lived on the beach, it was the place everybody wanted to come. Now, we actually got to the beach on weekends, just like everybody else, because we were working. But it was, uh, it was a beautiful, beautiful beach, one of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen in my life. Tall palm trees, white sand, blue turquoise water, beautiful beach. And so it was a great place to have a break, recreation on weekends. And volunteers would often come to see us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friend from school as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friend, she would come every now and then to, also to help. And I had a project with, uh. Easter is always a big deal in Latin America and Semana Santa and so that they have, they do, um, a whole process where the girls are, it's like a coming out for girls, for young teenage girls who dress up and parade around. And then now they can see boys. And now, you know, it's like a debutante, except very simple. But it was like, one of the girls. The teenage girls were always fascinated with my hair. And because we had the same hair, the same texture, African hair. And so they wanted to do with their hair what I did with my hair. And so I had about, there were about 12 of them who were coming out that summer. I said, I cannot do all this hair by myself. So I got my girlfriend to come and help me do. And we sat on the floor, on the floor, and just did hair all, for three days, that's all we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a straightening iron?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.366954415913495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friend, she would come every now and then to, also to help. And I had a project with, uh. Easter is always a big deal in Latin America and Semana Santa and so that they have, they do, um, a whole process where the girls are, it's like a coming out for girls, for young teenage girls who dress up and parade around. And then now they can see boys. And now, you know, it's like a debutante, except very simple. But it was like, one of the girls. The teenage girls were always fascinated with my hair. And because we had the same hair, the same texture, African hair. And so they wanted to do with their hair what I did with my hair. And so I had about, there were about 12 of them who were coming out that summer. I said, I cannot do all this hair by myself. So I got my girlfriend to come and help me do. And we sat on the floor, on the floor, and just did hair all, for three days, that's all we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a straightening iron?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A straightening comb that was mine and my friend had hers. So I said, bring your comb. And we just, and we're used to having a stove with heat, but they have no stoves out there. They have, they cook, they make heat with the rind of coconuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this huge, it was like a bonfire. And it was hot. It's like, oh my gosh. But we worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all looked beautiful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.29661601768166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A straightening comb that was mine and my friend had hers. So I said, bring your comb. And we just, and we're used to having a stove with heat, but they have no stoves out there. They have, they cook, they make heat with the rind of coconuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this huge, it was like a bonfire. And it was hot. It's like, oh my gosh. But we worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all looked beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all looked beautiful. They were so happy and so proud. And we were, we were proud for them. It was just a very fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.329573352979622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this huge, it was like a bonfire. And it was hot. It's like, oh my gosh. But we worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all looked beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all looked beautiful. They were so happy and so proud. And we were, we were proud for them. It was just a very fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a fun experience. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel at all during your, did you have a vacation? I know people who were teaching had school breaks, but did you have a vacation as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.255081503310691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all looked beautiful. They were so happy and so proud. And we were, we were proud for them. It was just a very fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a fun experience. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel at all during your, did you have a vacation? I know people who were teaching had school breaks, but did you have a vacation as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had a vacation. I think it was a week somewhere after the first year, they gave us a week off and we went to the islands, to Roatan and. It was the vacation islands are that outside the coast. Off the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also part of Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.283423892567434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a fun experience. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel at all during your, did you have a vacation? I know people who were teaching had school breaks, but did you have a vacation as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had a vacation. I think it was a week somewhere after the first year, they gave us a week off and we went to the islands, to Roatan and. It was the vacation islands are that outside the coast. Off the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also part of Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, part of Honduras. But it was beautiful. And we could, we hired a boat and it took us out to the islands, and we stayed out there for a while and just relaxed. It wasn't that different from where I spent my time, but it was not work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was vacation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.203804325074927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had a vacation. I think it was a week somewhere after the first year, they gave us a week off and we went to the islands, to Roatan and. It was the vacation islands are that outside the coast. Off the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also part of Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, part of Honduras. But it was beautiful. And we could, we hired a boat and it took us out to the islands, and we stayed out there for a while and just relaxed. It wasn't that different from where I spent my time, but it was not work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was vacation. So it was different. So that was great. And often sometimes we went to Tegucigalpa. That first Christmas, we all felt pretty lonely. And first time, for some of us, it was the first time we'd ever been away from our families. And so we all went to Tegucigalpa so that we could be together. By the second Christmas, we were in our towns and we, nobody ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have contact with your parents while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.893115916749919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, part of Honduras. But it was beautiful. And we could, we hired a boat and it took us out to the islands, and we stayed out there for a while and just relaxed. It wasn't that different from where I spent my time, but it was not work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was vacation. So it was different. So that was great. And often sometimes we went to Tegucigalpa. That first Christmas, we all felt pretty lonely. And first time, for some of us, it was the first time we'd ever been away from our families. And so we all went to Tegucigalpa so that we could be together. By the second Christmas, we were in our towns and we, nobody ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have contact with your parents while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, it's not like now where people are texting and talking and all that. No, we, I talked once a month for 3 minutes. I could get on the United Fruit Company shortwave radio and the operator was able to connect to my parent's phone. And we, they knew when I would be calling and I had 3 minutes. That was it. So I said hello to all my brothers and sisters, all my aunts and uncles, everybody in 3 minutes, and that was it until next month. So there was no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they worried about you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.659017685277688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was vacation. So it was different. So that was great. And often sometimes we went to Tegucigalpa. That first Christmas, we all felt pretty lonely. And first time, for some of us, it was the first time we'd ever been away from our families. And so we all went to Tegucigalpa so that we could be together. By the second Christmas, we were in our towns and we, nobody ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have contact with your parents while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, it's not like now where people are texting and talking and all that. No, we, I talked once a month for 3 minutes. I could get on the United Fruit Company shortwave radio and the operator was able to connect to my parent's phone. And we, they knew when I would be calling and I had 3 minutes. That was it. So I said hello to all my brothers and sisters, all my aunts and uncles, everybody in 3 minutes, and that was it until next month. So there was no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they worried about you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My grandparents were very worried about me. My grandfather had worked on the, actually this is coincidentally, had worked as a sailor on the United Fruit Company boats as a young man and actually knew where Honduras was and had been there. And so he knew it as a sailor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not what he wanted for his granddaughter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.510019650308543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, it's not like now where people are texting and talking and all that. No, we, I talked once a month for 3 minutes. I could get on the United Fruit Company shortwave radio and the operator was able to connect to my parent's phone. And we, they knew when I would be calling and I had 3 minutes. That was it. So I said hello to all my brothers and sisters, all my aunts and uncles, everybody in 3 minutes, and that was it until next month. So there was no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they worried about you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My grandparents were very worried about me. My grandfather had worked on the, actually this is coincidentally, had worked as a sailor on the United Fruit Company boats as a young man and actually knew where Honduras was and had been there. And so he knew it as a sailor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not what he wanted for his granddaughter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That is not what he wanted for me. He cried when I said I was going. He begged me not to go, and I was like, Grandpa, I'm going to be fine. What did I know, right? But I was fine by and large. I mean, I had some incidents. He died while I was there, which was one of the sadnesses of my life. But I was able to let him know I was fine while I was there, and so it worked out okay. But that was a major coincidence in our family that my grandfather had actually been there before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knew all the dangers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.455577389231713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My grandparents were very worried about me. My grandfather had worked on the, actually this is coincidentally, had worked as a sailor on the United Fruit Company boats as a young man and actually knew where Honduras was and had been there. And so he knew it as a sailor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not what he wanted for his granddaughter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That is not what he wanted for me. He cried when I said I was going. He begged me not to go, and I was like, Grandpa, I'm going to be fine. What did I know, right? But I was fine by and large. I mean, I had some incidents. He died while I was there, which was one of the sadnesses of my life. But I was able to let him know I was fine while I was there, and so it worked out okay. But that was a major coincidence in our family that my grandfather had actually been there before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knew all the dangers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the dangers, he actually, he knew the dangers from that point of view, which, um. And some of the things that, some of the dangers that I got into while I was there were actually things he would have been. He would have said, I told you so. There was the revolution happened while we were there. Kennedy died while we were there. And the revolution happened while we were there. Two major events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how were you affected? What was, from where you were, what was the revolution like? What happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.969848628681126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the dangers, he actually, he knew the dangers from that point of view, which, um. And some of the things that, some of the dangers that I got into while I was there were actually things he would have been. He would have said, I told you so. There was the revolution happened while we were there. Kennedy died while we were there. And the revolution happened while we were there. Two major events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how were you affected? What was, from where you were, what was the revolution like? What happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the revolution was terrible, was awful. And it was about six weeks after Kennedy was killed. And I think, well, there are many thoughts about how those two things were connected, but, um, it's where the military took over the government and the Dona, uh, Pajarito is his nickname and that's the name everybody called him, Pajarito. Pajarito was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The president."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The president of the country was dethroned and that they had to leave the country suddenly and Dona Alejandrina was gone now. So the person who was sponsoring us was gone. But they took over the government, and the coup was awful. I mean, many, many people were killed. I remember, I mean, I watched people getting shot right outside my front window. I watched cars drive by, trucks drive by with dead bodies in them, with feet hanging out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I should know this, but this was a leftist coup?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.839319294668057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The president of the country was dethroned and that they had to leave the country suddenly and Dona Alejandrina was gone now. So the person who was sponsoring us was gone. But they took over the government, and the coup was awful. I mean, many, many people were killed. I remember, I mean, I watched people getting shot right outside my front window. I watched cars drive by, trucks drive by with dead bodies in them, with feet hanging out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I should know this, but this was a leftist coup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was a very, it was a very difficult time for people in the country. There was some wonderment about whether or not we would get pulled out then, but we all wanted to stay. I think the military leader didn't have, was not invested in us, but I don't think he cared one way or another. So as long as we weren't going to get in his way, he was going to, he was all right with us staying as long as we didn't do anything political."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't worried about spies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.599243660742285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was a very, it was a very difficult time for people in the country. There was some wonderment about whether or not we would get pulled out then, but we all wanted to stay. I think the military leader didn't have, was not invested in us, but I don't think he cared one way or another. So as long as we weren't going to get in his way, he was going to, he was all right with us staying as long as we didn't do anything political."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't worried about spies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Not at that point. And so it was a terrible probably three months where it was curfews, where you had to be in your house by 6:00 and you came out at sunrise. You could come out once the sun was up. But you had to be back in your house at 6:00 or you just could be shot on the street.\n\nAnd so one of the stories I tell that my grandfather would not have liked, would have been very upset about, was that my colleague lost track of time and he had the jeep and the keys for me to get into our courtyard. So I'm on the street and it is 6:00 and I'm a girl standing out here and the army trucks with the guns are going by just and I'm trying to just melt into the wall so that they don't see me because they shoot first and ask questions later. That's clear. And so but they went by and nobody saw me. And then the next one went by and I thought he was almost, I thought I was out of danger. And then he stopped and he said, alto, alto! And I knew he meant stop, stop. Because he thought I was doing something. But he didn't shoot. He came to me and the whole truck"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he knew you are American."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.443604067491428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was a very, it was a very difficult time for people in the country. There was some wonderment about whether or not we would get pulled out then, but we all wanted to stay. I think the military leader didn't have, was not invested in us, but I don't think he cared one way or another. So as long as we weren't going to get in his way, he was going to, he was all right with us staying as long as we didn't do anything political."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't worried about spies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Not at that point. And so it was a terrible probably three months where it was curfews, where you had to be in your house by 6:00 and you came out at sunrise. You could come out once the sun was up. But you had to be back in your house at 6:00 or you just could be shot on the street.\n\nAnd so one of the stories I tell that my grandfather would not have liked, would have been very upset about, was that my colleague lost track of time and he had the jeep and the keys for me to get into our courtyard. So I'm on the street and it is 6:00 and I'm a girl standing out here and the army trucks with the guns are going by just and I'm trying to just melt into the wall so that they don't see me because they shoot first and ask questions later. That's clear. And so but they went by and nobody saw me. And then the next one went by and I thought he was almost, I thought I was out of danger. And then he stopped and he said, alto, alto! And I knew he meant stop, stop. Because he thought I was doing something. But he didn't shoot. He came to me and the whole truck"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he knew you are American."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he didn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.955066749989418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, he did not know. And I kept saying, I'm Cuerpo de Paz, Cuerpo de Paz. I'm, you know, de los Estados Unidos. I'm an American, I'm from the United States. I'm locked out of my house. I'm trying to get in. I'm not doing anything wrong. So they came over and they looked at my ID and they, they understood that I was what I said I was. But it was like, okay, so we got this girl now out here and can't get in her house. Why don't we just do some hanky panky? And so then the, then the. These are young soldiers. They're like what my grandfather was afraid of. So they start coming on, they start touching, they start. And so then I'm like, what am I going to do? Because clearly they, often they take women off and they never heard from again.\n\nSo I had to think of my talking about Peace Corps. Quick think. Quick think. And so I decided to say to all of them, there are about six guys who were just getting fresh and more fresh and just. And so I said, I will, I will like one of you. And so I started saying, you get your friends away and let's you and I go off and be friends and get to know each other. So I was kind of flirting with this one guy who seemed the nicest of them. And so he and I kind of went off around the back and I got back there and I said, I won't tell them, please help me get over the wall. Please just help me get over the wall. I won't tell them. And you can tell them you did anything you want. Tell them anything if just to keep your machismo intact. Because I knew that was what this was all about. And so he did. He boosted me and helped me get over the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were so lucky."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was incredibly lucky. And I picked the right one that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For just thinking about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.82107006171533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was incredibly lucky. And I picked the right one that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For just thinking about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Being able to think quickly in that moment to, uh, I said, okay, I think Peace Corps did help me with that. So when my colleague got home then, you know, I. He still talks to me about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He owes you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got him though. He says, oh gosh, I wasn't there, are you going to beat me up? I think I was. So that all that to say that the experience of the revolution was terrible for everybody. And many people died and many people lost money and lost their resources. And it was a very, it was a miserable time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that happened in your second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.91230006857259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Being able to think quickly in that moment to, uh, I said, okay, I think Peace Corps did help me with that. So when my colleague got home then, you know, I. He still talks to me about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He owes you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got him though. He says, oh gosh, I wasn't there, are you going to beat me up? I think I was. So that all that to say that the experience of the revolution was terrible for everybody. And many people died and many people lost money and lost their resources. And it was a very, it was a miserable time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that happened in your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the first year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.002839590830357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In '63 actually. It was in '63. It was Kennedy was killed in '63 and so it was, this was '63, about six weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then but the projects continued?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.22537732314484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In '63 actually. It was in '63. It was Kennedy was killed in '63 and so it was, this was '63, about six weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then but the projects continued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Projects continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all the other Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.472641470160934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then but the projects continued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Projects continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all the other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody stayed. Everybody, everybody has stories about what happened to them during the revolution. Everybody, all of us has. Everybody has a story. We've been together and shared. What happened to you? What happened to you when Kennedy was killed? And how were the Honduran people with you? And how are you with them? And how did you, how were you in that? And the other story is, what happened to you during the revolution?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you that question. So what happened when Kennedy was killed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.389485551228367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reciprocated. And that was an amazing time. I'll never forget that, ever. That time, that mutuality, that reciprocity, just the juxtaposition of those two events were amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that unique to Tela or it was throughout the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, throughout the country. We all have those two stories that when we're together, some, well, most, many of Honduras I are deceased now. But there's probably still 15 of us still alive. And so whenever we are in communication, those two stories come up invariably because they marked us as volunteers for sure, but also as people. Yeah, it was an amazing time. Difficult time. Very difficult time, very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In our generation, we all know where we were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where were you when Kennedy died? And, yeah, that's where I was, in the Peace Corps. My Peace Corps family, my Honduran family was my support got us through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask you just a couple more questions. I mean, are there other things? Let me before I go there, let me ask, are there things you want? Anything else you want to talk about the country and your experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.543872834698185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, throughout the country. We all have those two stories that when we're together, some, well, most, many of Honduras I are deceased now. But there's probably still 15 of us still alive. And so whenever we are in communication, those two stories come up invariably because they marked us as volunteers for sure, but also as people. Yeah, it was an amazing time. Difficult time. Very difficult time, very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In our generation, we all know where we were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where were you when Kennedy died? And, yeah, that's where I was, in the Peace Corps. My Peace Corps family, my Honduran family was my support got us through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask you just a couple more questions. I mean, are there other things? Let me before I go there, let me ask, are there things you want? Anything else you want to talk about the country and your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras is a very, very poor country. And it was probably one of the poorest countries in the Americas. And then and it still is. I think the volunteers are very needed there. And it's very sad that that they're not there right now. The resources in that country are very, uh, scarce and remain so. And so I hope at some point that, that the, that this country and the Hondurans can do something about the drugs so that Honduras, so that Peace Corps can go back because it's just so basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.604303149664648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where were you when Kennedy died? And, yeah, that's where I was, in the Peace Corps. My Peace Corps family, my Honduran family was my support got us through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask you just a couple more questions. I mean, are there other things? Let me before I go there, let me ask, are there things you want? Anything else you want to talk about the country and your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras is a very, very poor country. And it was probably one of the poorest countries in the Americas. And then and it still is. I think the volunteers are very needed there. And it's very sad that that they're not there right now. The resources in that country are very, uh, scarce and remain so. And so I hope at some point that, that the, that this country and the Hondurans can do something about the drugs so that Honduras, so that Peace Corps can go back because it's just so basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back two years, three years after I left, because I married and my husband was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Honduran?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.44922572184961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras is a very, very poor country. And it was probably one of the poorest countries in the Americas. And then and it still is. I think the volunteers are very needed there. And it's very sad that that they're not there right now. The resources in that country are very, uh, scarce and remain so. And so I hope at some point that, that the, that this country and the Hondurans can do something about the drugs so that Honduras, so that Peace Corps can go back because it's just so basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back two years, three years after I left, because I married and my husband was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Honduran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, to an American. But I talked about Peace Corps and that experience so much. And I said, you will not, you can't know me until unless you know that. You don't know who I am unless you know that me. And so I said we're going back. And so we went back together. And so he met my Honduran family and saw where I lived and met all my people. And that was wonderful. They got to meet him. So that was, that was the last time I was back. That was three years. So I was back, I got came back in '64. So I was married in '66. So I think I went to Honduras in '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came back from Peace Corps and you went into grad school right away?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.3880285798329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back two years, three years after I left, because I married and my husband was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Honduran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, to an American. But I talked about Peace Corps and that experience so much. And I said, you will not, you can't know me until unless you know that. You don't know who I am unless you know that me. And so I said we're going back. And so we went back together. And so he met my Honduran family and saw where I lived and met all my people. And that was wonderful. They got to meet him. So that was, that was the last time I was back. That was three years. So I was back, I got came back in '64. So I was married in '66. So I think I went to Honduras in '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came back from Peace Corps and you went into grad school right away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.14571429609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I went into, I started grad school at Saint Louis University. They gave me a scholarship to go to the School of Social Work. But I was so unsettled. I mean, coming back from that intense experience to the School of Social work was such a drag. And back then the School of Social Work was not where I thought it, it wasn't considering the kinds of issues that I thought needed to be considered. Students weren't being prepared to do organization, community development. They weren't being prepared to, uh, to interact with people from other countries. They weren't being, and I, that's what I wanted. I wanted to be, I thought that I needed to do that. And so I was on a soapbox all the time in graduate school. I finally decided, I'm not ready for this. They're not ready for me and I'm not ready for this. So I stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I took a job. I came to Washington and took a job with a job training program, a work and training program that was a demonstration project that was happening here in D.C., in Pennsylvania, not far from where I live, right on Capitol Hill. And that had the, that felt like what my, the intensity that I had in Peace Corps, the people here had the same thing. They really were working hard. It was team, people were committed to it. And the point was to get people from the poverty rolls in Washington, D.C., prepared to work and get training and get good jobs. And so I did that for three years. I met my husband there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what was the name of the organization?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.476190489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I took a job. I came to Washington and took a job with a job training program, a work and training program that was a demonstration project that was happening here in D.C., in Pennsylvania, not far from where I live, right on Capitol Hill. And that had the, that felt like what my, the intensity that I had in Peace Corps, the people here had the same thing. They really were working hard. It was team, people were committed to it. And the point was to get people from the poverty rolls in Washington, D.C., prepared to work and get training and get good jobs. And so I did that for three years. I met my husband there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what was the name of the organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Work and Training Opportunity Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was in the old Naval Hospital, they, uh, right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because my whole field is in employment and training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.9952969000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was in the old Naval Hospital, they, uh, right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because my whole field is in employment and training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another connection. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to talk about that as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.661441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another connection. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to talk about that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I, I worked there for four years. I met my husband there and we were married there. My husband is Caucasian. So that community at the Work and Training Opportunity Center became our family in much the same way that Peace Corps had been family. And so they supported us in marrying in 1966, which was kind of a difficult thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty radical, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.29049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another connection. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to talk about that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I, I worked there for four years. I met my husband there and we were married there. My husband is Caucasian. So that community at the Work and Training Opportunity Center became our family in much the same way that Peace Corps had been family. And so they supported us in marrying in 1966, which was kind of a difficult thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty radical, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, back then. And I mean, I wasn't allowed, we weren't legal in New Orleans, so I couldn't go home to get married. So we did get married here and we had lots and lots of support here to support us in our, in our wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So have you stayed? You went back to Honduras. Have you stayed involved in international things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I, I worked there for four years. I met my husband there and we were married there. My husband is Caucasian. So that community at the Work and Training Opportunity Center became our family in much the same way that Peace Corps had been family. And so they supported us in marrying in 1966, which was kind of a difficult thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty radical, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, back then. And I mean, I wasn't allowed, we weren't legal in New Orleans, so I couldn't go home to get married. So we did get married here and we had lots and lots of support here to support us in our, in our wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So have you stayed? You went back to Honduras. Have you stayed involved in international things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, no. I think. I finally did go back to graduate school and I am a clinical social worker and I have work now in private practice here in Washington, D.C. But I worked in private practice in Massachusetts and I lived there for a long time. And then in Philadelphia, where I lived for a while. And part of the, many of the people I see are people who their original language is Spanish, um, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continue to use Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, back then. And I mean, I wasn't allowed, we weren't legal in New Orleans, so I couldn't go home to get married. So we did get married here and we had lots and lots of support here to support us in our, in our wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So have you stayed? You went back to Honduras. Have you stayed involved in international things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, no. I think. I finally did go back to graduate school and I am a clinical social worker and I have work now in private practice here in Washington, D.C. But I worked in private practice in Massachusetts and I lived there for a long time. And then in Philadelphia, where I lived for a while. And part of the, many of the people I see are people who their original language is Spanish, um, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continue to use Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To use my Spanish. There are people who, most of these people speak English because many of them work for the World Bank or they work for IMF. In Massachusetts, there were people who had come to this country and were working, you know, in all kinds of capacities, but so people could do their therapy in English. But when it got down to really where their pain was, where their young life was, most of that is in Spanish. So we could actually do that work in Spanish, which was quite wonderful. And I love that work. And I understand not just the language but the culture from most of these people come. And so that's great. That's a wonderful thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've learned about other cultures."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, no. I think. I finally did go back to graduate school and I am a clinical social worker and I have work now in private practice here in Washington, D.C. But I worked in private practice in Massachusetts and I lived there for a long time. And then in Philadelphia, where I lived for a while. And part of the, many of the people I see are people who their original language is Spanish, um, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continue to use Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To use my Spanish. There are people who, most of these people speak English because many of them work for the World Bank or they work for IMF. In Massachusetts, there were people who had come to this country and were working, you know, in all kinds of capacities, but so people could do their therapy in English. But when it got down to really where their pain was, where their young life was, most of that is in Spanish. So we could actually do that work in Spanish, which was quite wonderful. And I love that work. And I understand not just the language but the culture from most of these people come. And so that's great. That's a wonderful thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've learned about other cultures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have, that way, other cultures. Not just Latin America, but I know how to think. It's like what I've learned is how to ask the question of the impact of culture on this pain and the impact of having that cultural pain be experienced here in this foreign culture of the United States. I know how to engage that question, which is often where people's upset is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is a really unique capacity on your part because you've been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To use my Spanish. There are people who, most of these people speak English because many of them work for the World Bank or they work for IMF. In Massachusetts, there were people who had come to this country and were working, you know, in all kinds of capacities, but so people could do their therapy in English. But when it got down to really where their pain was, where their young life was, most of that is in Spanish. So we could actually do that work in Spanish, which was quite wonderful. And I love that work. And I understand not just the language but the culture from most of these people come. And so that's great. That's a wonderful thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've learned about other cultures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have, that way, other cultures. Not just Latin America, but I know how to think. It's like what I've learned is how to ask the question of the impact of culture on this pain and the impact of having that cultural pain be experienced here in this foreign culture of the United States. I know how to engage that question, which is often where people's upset is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is a really unique capacity on your part because you've been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been in their shoes just in a different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been in their shoes just in a different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different in a different country. And that's, that, knowing how to ask that question then gets applicable to people from all other kinds of places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know, I know, um, that it's basically the same issue, even though they come from a different place. And maybe I don't speak French or I don't speak an African, from an African dialect, or I don't speak some other language, but I know how to ask that question because I know that the impact of culture and early life and whatever that experience is, being experienced, where the pain is being experienced here. So I know how to explore that with people and that works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do your colleagues in the social work community say to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different in a different country. And that's, that, knowing how to ask that question then gets applicable to people from all other kinds of places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know, I know, um, that it's basically the same issue, even though they come from a different place. And maybe I don't speak French or I don't speak an African, from an African dialect, or I don't speak some other language, but I know how to ask that question because I know that the impact of culture and early life and whatever that experience is, being experienced, where the pain is being experienced here. So I know how to explore that with people and that works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do your colleagues in the social work community say to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's a good thing. No, I mean, I get lots of people sent to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know, I know, um, that it's basically the same issue, even though they come from a different place. And maybe I don't speak French or I don't speak an African, from an African dialect, or I don't speak some other language, but I know how to ask that question because I know that the impact of culture and early life and whatever that experience is, being experienced, where the pain is being experienced here. So I know how to explore that with people and that works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do your colleagues in the social work community say to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's a good thing. No, I mean, I get lots of people sent to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They know that I know how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a unique capacity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's a good thing. No, I mean, I get lots of people sent to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They know that I know how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a unique capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a unique capacity. Yeah. So I'm still working and old and I'm still working. It's because I still love it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm old and I still interviewing because I love it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a unique capacity. Yeah. So I'm still working and old and I'm still working. It's because I still love it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm old and I still interviewing because I love it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this has been a wonderful interview. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00018:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this has been a wonderful interview. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're very welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you'd like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00167:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.658445800000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's when they were hooking up with an Agena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they had to abort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Congress investigate that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We probably had NASA come in and explain to us what happened and so forth. There was not an investigation. There was no loss of life or they didn't lose a vehicle or anything of that type.\\n\\n But yes, we had them come in and explain to us what happened, and our concern was, is this going to be a problem with rendezvous and dock? If you dock with something else, will it get out of control? So yes, Congress would look into those things and get an explanation, but not to the extent like the Apollo fire or the Challenger accident or something, which was much more severe. But you have those anomalies that happen, and you want to know why it happened and is this a major anomaly or do you understand it.\\n\\n One of the big things about the Apollo program was, what was the surface of the moon going to look like? We had some programs, the Ranger program and several, to try to determine the surface of the moon. Hell, we didn't know if it was Swiss cheese or quicksand. Fortunately, everything worked out right. But that was a big unknown, even the mapping that they did of the moon, and a lot of geologists looked at a lot of this stuff. But there were a lot of unknowns at that juncture in life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Congress specifically contribute once they would perform an investigation? Was it mainly just oversight to make sure everyone was on the right track?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.64643238044125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't kava. It's called something else. Sorry, I don't remember, but anyone who's been to Pohnpei will know. Everybody knows there, yeah. And so it's pretty potent for a drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, it's not like LSD. It's not like you get transported to a different reality, but it's definitely got some hallucinogenic, uh, um, properties. Um, it's disgusting though. It's like, it's like, it's like drinking slime. Um, so yeah, I tried that. That was it. And I got introduced to, um, chewing betel nut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gosh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So got red teeth. And, um, there were a lot of ruins from the war, of Japanese bunkers and stuff. Yeah, it was super interesting. And then we went to Yap, and I was on the, on the island of, the main island of Yap has several different parts. I was, we were in a part called Gagil, which I, if I recall correctly, was, the, would be the east end. But I have a terrible sense of direction, so I can't swear to that. Um, stayed with families, unlike the other places. And, you know, it was more the traditional Peace Corps training model. We had language class, culture class, um, some teaching methodology type classes.\n\nUm, so I stayed with a family that I was very fond of. Um, the mother was named Phnom Penh, which means a woman in Yapese, really imaginative name there. And, um, yeah, they had kids. I had my own little hut and, you know, started to really adjust to the, uh, to the, to the life on the islands. Got to, started to get, you know, a taste of what I was in for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say hut, is this a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.162702644934722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, it's not like LSD. It's not like you get transported to a different reality, but it's definitely got some hallucinogenic, uh, um, properties. Um, it's disgusting though. It's like, it's like, it's like drinking slime. Um, so yeah, I tried that. That was it. And I got introduced to, um, chewing betel nut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gosh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So got red teeth. And, um, there were a lot of ruins from the war, of Japanese bunkers and stuff. Yeah, it was super interesting. And then we went to Yap, and I was on the, on the island of, the main island of Yap has several different parts. I was, we were in a part called Gagil, which I, if I recall correctly, was, the, would be the east end. But I have a terrible sense of direction, so I can't swear to that. Um, stayed with families, unlike the other places. And, you know, it was more the traditional Peace Corps training model. We had language class, culture class, um, some teaching methodology type classes.\n\nUm, so I stayed with a family that I was very fond of. Um, the mother was named Phnom Penh, which means a woman in Yapese, really imaginative name there. And, um, yeah, they had kids. I had my own little hut and, you know, started to really adjust to the, uh, to the, to the life on the islands. Got to, started to get, you know, a taste of what I was in for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say hut, is this a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean hut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatched roof type."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 35.74562207732773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was up, it was raised off the ground a little bit. It was very small. They built it just for me on their compound. Um, and, uh, it was, uh. Yeah, it was a total hut just made from thatch. Yeah. A very vivid memories of Yap, particularly of the, you know, the hibiscus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Millions of hibiscus. So beautiful. And, you know, it was like the beaches and the people. Um, I got, um, strep throat and I got very sick. And there was a nurse and a former ecologist, they're like in their 40s, who were there, who unfortunately couldn't handle it and ended up leaving before swearing in, which was a real loss to the island, I'll tell you. But they just, especially the woman, she just, she just couldn't. It was too rough for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you, you felt like you could handle it at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.496604294052318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they can, they if somebody was really, really sick they would send the boat. But it takes the boat, if you're on the furthest island out, it's going to take him at least four days, 4 or 5 days to get there, even just steaming top speed. I mean, it's a lot of ocean. It's a big boat. So it, you know, it's a ship. So anyway, off we went. We went on the ship and we, this was a regular run. So it stopped at every island. So Ulithi, Fais, Woleai, a couple others. And ultimately it got, and dropped one of us off at each one. Um, so ultimately I got dropped off at Lamotrek, which is the second furthest out. It's actually closer to Truk [now called Chuuk] than it is to Yap, but technically it's in Yap State. So, um, I was on Lamotrek the first year, and then the second year I was on Satawal, which is the furthest out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Satawal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Satawal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, S-A-T-A-W-A-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's a more remote location?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.996226993391465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Satawal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Satawal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, S-A-T-A-W-A-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's a more remote location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just, they're all remote. I wouldn't say one is any more remote than the other. They're all, except Ulithi had a small airstrip and a very small plane could land there. It was the closest to Yap, and they didn't even take volunteers, at least not for the years I was there. And then Woleai was about in the middle, and it was the biggest island. Um. Uh, Maura. Good lord. I, I, her last name is slipping my mind, but she ended up being the country director of, uh, of Georgia, and it'll come to me in a minute. I mean, she works for Peace Corps now. She's special advisor to the director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she in Georgia when you did your tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.449598343732353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very separate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very separate. Yeah. No, no. There was, um, yeah, a big separation between. It's not like men and women never spoke to each other. Families lived together and men and women spoke. But there were lots and lots of rules, which I think were mainly to prevent incest. I mean, not direct like father and daughter, everyone knows whoever, but going out to cousins. So like women have to, like couldn't be higher than men. So if a man was sitting on the ground, you had to like, bend when you went by him if he was related to you. And so of course, I didn't know who was related to me, so I had to do it for everybody. Oh my God, so, so crazy. And, you know, all sorts of different rules about like, who you could speak to, how you could speak to them, whether you could walk in front of them. And, you know, it was all around not marrying your cousin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn any of these rules in training, or was this something you had to pick up on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I picked it up on site. I really, that's my memory anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Learn the rules quickly if you want to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 15.369874498435003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I picked it up on site. I really, that's my memory anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Learn the rules quickly if you want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, nobody really expected me to follow the rules, to be honest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Foreign woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they knew. And they had Peace Corps volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.569771712366006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, I had to work with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not women's groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You had, the men were the decision makers, supposedly. I mean, you don't really know. You know, there's like often heated discussions in the, in the, in the hut. But the men were, there was a whole structure. There were big houses on the beach. The men were, where the men were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The men's houses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.888607052303712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You had, the men were the decision makers, supposedly. I mean, you don't really know. You know, there's like often heated discussions in the, in the, in the hut. But the men were, there was a whole structure. There were big houses on the beach. The men were, where the men were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The men's houses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was given special dispensation to come in there and talk to them. Um, but generally there was, there was one night per year where the women could go in there. It was a big bacchanal. And, you know, that always resulted in men coming to my, to my hut, like. They used, they drank, um, fermented coconut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was very potent. Um, so, uh, it, you know, after about maybe 3 or 4 months, I felt well established enough to start approaching, like men in my family. I kept away from that one guy who was always demanding things. I gather his name started with S. I can still see his face, but Soloval or something like that anyway. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family support you? Were they, were they encouraging of you and promote you in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.431785613670791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was given special dispensation to come in there and talk to them. Um, but generally there was, there was one night per year where the women could go in there. It was a big bacchanal. And, you know, that always resulted in men coming to my, to my hut, like. They used, they drank, um, fermented coconut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was very potent. Um, so, uh, it, you know, after about maybe 3 or 4 months, I felt well established enough to start approaching, like men in my family. I kept away from that one guy who was always demanding things. I gather his name started with S. I can still see his face, but Soloval or something like that anyway. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family support you? Were they, were they encouraging of you and promote you in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. I mean, this one girl, you know, the teenage girl, she was, she was helpful to me, but, um, mainly learning the language and kind of guiding me around. But there was one older guy. He was like, maybe in his 60s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your family group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.471340263791101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. I mean, this one girl, you know, the teenage girl, she was, she was helpful to me, but, um, mainly learning the language and kind of guiding me around. But there was one older guy. He was like, maybe in his 60s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your family group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was extended family. He didn't live on the compound. He lived elsewhere. And he had been to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I never figured out exactly how that happened, but it had something to do with a former Peace Corps volunteer I guess sponsored him or something. So, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He spoke English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.754741066408766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I never figured out exactly how that happened, but it had something to do with a former Peace Corps volunteer I guess sponsored him or something. So, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He spoke English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't speak English, but, you know, he was like very helpful to me. He, he was the one I mainly kind of worked through and formed a friendly relationship with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And eventually I moved off my family's compound to another house that was like along the road that was just my own house. I was still attached to them and I, uh, went to eat with them, you know, like every night. And it's not like I. But it was better for me not to live on the compound, mainly because of that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By moving off compound, did that, were you still associated with that family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.551807752490115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, that was the idea is that there were tourists who came to Yap. They didn't generally. Yeah, they often came to snorkel. And they didn't go to outer island because nobody has the time to deal with that boat situation, but they were interested in learning about it. So that was one possible source of income. Another was, um, copra, which is dried coconut. You know, it's grated coconut that's been dried.\n\nAnother was also sometimes dried fish, but that was very, uh, unreliable because you never know. I mean, sometimes a huge, huge school of tuna, I mean, like thousands of tuna would swim through the reef into the, over the reef at high tide into the lagoon. And then everyone on the island, including the women, would, like, get out these giant nets that they had made and catch all the, not all, but you know, many of the tuna and there'd be like thousands of tunas flopping around on the beach and they would just let them die out of the water, and then they would cut them up and smoke them or dry them. Oh, the whole island stunk for like three weeks or a month, whoa! Cause everywhere you went, there was, you know, decaying tuna. But like, then there was so much that it was more than even the island needed at all. But the problem is, is you never know when, you know, a school of tuna like that will, will swim in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very iffy. So, but those were some of the ideas. And then another idea, which was not my idea or my guy's idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the smoked and preserved fish could be exported?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But much of it remained there as a food supply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.390897502766794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very iffy. So, but those were some of the ideas. And then another idea, which was not my idea or my guy's idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the smoked and preserved fish could be exported?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But much of it remained there as a food supply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of it. I mean, at the time I was there, all of it was their food supply. But it would get moldy eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.100997225296438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But much of it remained there as a food supply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of it. I mean, at the time I was there, all of it was their food supply. But it would get moldy eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's humid and hot. So, you know, you just couldn't keep all that. They tried. So the idea was rather than ultimately having to throw it away, to export it. Exactly. But with the frequency of the ship and the unknown tuna appearance, that was very, very difficult. It, you know, it could be a little supplementary money, but it couldn't be a reliable, regular source of income, whereas copra and handicrafts could, a little bit. But none of it was big money. So there was also a thought that we should, like, get rid of the need for money as well.\n\nUm, so one of the things, this was not my idea, but one of the things that was done through the Department of Community Development, which was the department that we in my group reported to, was to replace the diesel radios with solar radios. Wow, that worked great. No more diesel. Not, no need for it. And I mean, it's very sunny there all the time, even when there's a storm, it passes over in like two hours because there's no altitude, there's nothing to hold the clouds, so it just passes over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this require importation of a new technology?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.889996916996042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of it. I mean, at the time I was there, all of it was their food supply. But it would get moldy eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's humid and hot. So, you know, you just couldn't keep all that. They tried. So the idea was rather than ultimately having to throw it away, to export it. Exactly. But with the frequency of the ship and the unknown tuna appearance, that was very, very difficult. It, you know, it could be a little supplementary money, but it couldn't be a reliable, regular source of income, whereas copra and handicrafts could, a little bit. But none of it was big money. So there was also a thought that we should, like, get rid of the need for money as well.\n\nUm, so one of the things, this was not my idea, but one of the things that was done through the Department of Community Development, which was the department that we in my group reported to, was to replace the diesel radios with solar radios. Wow, that worked great. No more diesel. Not, no need for it. And I mean, it's very sunny there all the time, even when there's a storm, it passes over in like two hours because there's no altitude, there's nothing to hold the clouds, so it just passes over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this require importation of a new technology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, yes it did. So it came on the boat. We set it up. It wasn't hard to set up at all. And it worked. I mean, it really worked well, even back then. It was just two panels, you know, and every radio was in a shock already. So the panels were mounted on top of the shock. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a quick transition? Did people see the, the value?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.138657216879395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They only got water through rain catchment, and there were these stagnant pools in the middle of the island. They were like green with loads of dragonflies all around. And like that's where you had to go to take a bath. It was, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I was clean for a year. I got scabies. It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to have quite a serious case. Um, they really had, and fishing was a lot tougher. Like on Lamotrek, they just went out to the atoll and, like, hung around the, the coral. And, you know, there's fish everywhere there. I mean, at least there were then. I don't know about now, but, uh, they, uh, in Satawal it was much harder. And yet I'd say they were much kinder, more pro, more proactive people. Um, they're kind of lazy on Lamotrek. And on Satawal, I was much closer with my family. My hut was right across from their hut. You know, it was like I lived really close to them. And, uh, it was a more positive experience with the people, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you're stepping in now with a year under your belt."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.598508018754883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I was clean for a year. I got scabies. It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to have quite a serious case. Um, they really had, and fishing was a lot tougher. Like on Lamotrek, they just went out to the atoll and, like, hung around the, the coral. And, you know, there's fish everywhere there. I mean, at least there were then. I don't know about now, but, uh, they, uh, in Satawal it was much harder. And yet I'd say they were much kinder, more pro, more proactive people. Um, they're kind of lazy on Lamotrek. And on Satawal, I was much closer with my family. My hut was right across from their hut. You know, it was like I lived really close to them. And, uh, it was a more positive experience with the people, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you're stepping in now with a year under your belt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.887231131949869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to have quite a serious case. Um, they really had, and fishing was a lot tougher. Like on Lamotrek, they just went out to the atoll and, like, hung around the, the coral. And, you know, there's fish everywhere there. I mean, at least there were then. I don't know about now, but, uh, they, uh, in Satawal it was much harder. And yet I'd say they were much kinder, more pro, more proactive people. Um, they're kind of lazy on Lamotrek. And on Satawal, I was much closer with my family. My hut was right across from their hut. You know, it was like I lived really close to them. And, uh, it was a more positive experience with the people, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you're stepping in now with a year under your belt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9858123688331878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of experience and so on. Did that make a big difference in your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So men and women did handicrafts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0953470764813198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean, it's hard it's hard to say for sure, but I think it did. Of course, I made mistakes on Lamotrek and, you know, did some things differently on Satawal. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such as what? What kinds of mistakes, lessons learned did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So men and women did handicrafts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be part of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2170523072014663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lessons learned. Um, I think, I think on Satawal I tried to work with the women more than I did on Lamotrek. On Lamotrek, I was new, so I was very, uh, concerned with trying to fit in and follow the rules. And, you know, on Satawal I wasn't as concerned with that. You know, I just, I, I learned that there was a lot of leeway given to a foreigner. And as long as you were perceived as essentially respectful, you weren't going to be held to every single rule, and that there was a lot to be gained through working with women who, you know, a lot of them also did handicrafts too. So I'd say that was like one of the lessons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So men and women did handicrafts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be part of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Women less than men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of that economic niche."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3522803413349624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be part of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Women less than men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of that economic niche."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I saw that as being economic niche."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the women more productive as a rule than men?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5025337125944027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Women less than men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of that economic niche."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I saw that as being economic niche."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the women more productive as a rule than men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On second island."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8549798920918552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On second island."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or as to handicrafts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In general."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. Yeah. No offense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, no."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.290098632212167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. Yeah. No offense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The men, the men on Satawal were a little more, uh, proactive than on Lamotrek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a little bit, which is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a harder island. It's a tougher place to live."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4334429246801856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The men, the men on Satawal were a little more, uh, proactive than on Lamotrek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a little bit, which is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a harder island. It's a tougher place to live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe that's why. I don't know, but, um. But in general, women work from sun up to sundown. They never were just lying around. They were always like harvesting, planting, preparing food, making thread, making teors, making this, making that. I mean, they were just always, always working. And the men were like in the men's house, you know, drinking. I mean, they were so lazy sometimes on Lamotrek, and the women would complain. I remember once we didn't have fish for like three weeks because the men were just, wouldn't go out. And, you know, finally the women. This was one of the lessons I kind of saw, is that all the women are not just passive. Eventually they will like rise up in revolt and like, you know, like shake the men by the shoulders. You have to fish.\n\nThen we, we went out and caught the crabs a lot during that time, I remember. I didn't mind. I like crabs, but they wanted fish. Oh my God, we cooked a dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're dealing with a protein, protein scarcity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7696826230619576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe that's why. I don't know, but, um. But in general, women work from sun up to sundown. They never were just lying around. They were always like harvesting, planting, preparing food, making thread, making teors, making this, making that. I mean, they were just always, always working. And the men were like in the men's house, you know, drinking. I mean, they were so lazy sometimes on Lamotrek, and the women would complain. I remember once we didn't have fish for like three weeks because the men were just, wouldn't go out. And, you know, finally the women. This was one of the lessons I kind of saw, is that all the women are not just passive. Eventually they will like rise up in revolt and like, you know, like shake the men by the shoulders. You have to fish.\n\nThen we, we went out and caught the crabs a lot during that time, I remember. I didn't mind. I like crabs, but they wanted fish. Oh my God, we cooked a dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're dealing with a protein, protein scarcity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. We ate a dog during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, I was, by that, by that time I was living in my little hut off the compound. But I came to the compound for dinner and I was walking over there and I smelt this incredibly great smell. It was like roasted meat. I'm like, what the hell is that? Yeah, they were roasting a dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't fish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9663140256243972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. We ate a dog during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, I was, by that, by that time I was living in my little hut off the compound. But I came to the compound for dinner and I was walking over there and I smelt this incredibly great smell. It was like roasted meat. I'm like, what the hell is that? Yeah, they were roasting a dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't fish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oops. Was that you or me?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.427548179783206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oops. Was that you or me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Me. Okay. I don't see anything on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6972757553146733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Me. Okay. I don't see anything on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.996973061460748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, one fell off. Luckily, it didn't break. Okay. We're fine. Um, yeah. So I got there. I'm like, what? What is that? And then they said, oh, you know, it's one of the dogs. And the dogs were so mangy, they were always eating their own excrement. And it was so disgusting. And I was like, I don't know, but I was so hungry. So finally I said all right, give me a piece. And at the moment I took it, the fire flared up and I could see I was holding like the equivalent of a drumstick. And there was like the dog's little hand, like all curled up. I'm like, right, I can't eat this. I just can't eat this. I cannot eat a piece of meat with a dog's paw on it. It's too much for me. So I didn't eat it, but I came very close, very close to eating dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically, then you began to wrap up and you were going to leave the work on the islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any transition?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.32997006828972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that go? Did you break in a new volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any continuity after you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1961180634975577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean there were new volunteers but they were on Yap. I was on, I was on Satawal. By the time I finished, I was ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, it's hard life on those islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No electricity, no running water, no toilets. You're sleeping on the floor. Um. I learned some really incredible things that have affected me my whole life. I'd say the most significant one was I learned to weave. And this, I became known as the weaving volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see your email address, Sara weaves."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.711256868515503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No electricity, no running water, no toilets. You're sleeping on the floor. Um. I learned some really incredible things that have affected me my whole life. I'd say the most significant one was I learned to weave. And this, I became known as the weaving volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see your email address, Sara weaves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I still weave to this day. In the back room there I have a loom. And, um, I, I love weaving and, um, I had to relearn in the States because a loom here is not the same as a backstrap loom. But I learned to weave, and I, um, that was a great way to integrate into the culture with the women. Also, I learned to dance, which not very well, but that led to one of the best experiences there, which was, um, there was. This was on Lamotrek. There was a, I don't even know what to call it, a celebration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was all women's, women's activity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0125076316838926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I still weave to this day. In the back room there I have a loom. And, um, I, I love weaving and, um, I had to relearn in the States because a loom here is not the same as a backstrap loom. But I learned to weave, and I, um, that was a great way to integrate into the culture with the women. Also, I learned to dance, which not very well, but that led to one of the best experiences there, which was, um, there was. This was on Lamotrek. There was a, I don't even know what to call it, a celebration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was all women's, women's activity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A man's dance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3472307018709917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it involved a big fire on the beach and the men playing music, like drums and stuff, and the women dancing. And you put like a lot of turmeric on you. And we made like very elaborate flower leis and stuff on our heads and everything on our chests, and wore like special kinds of teors or skirts with like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was all women's, women's activity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A man's dance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it impact their perception of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.719145224301102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the men played the music and watched, and the women did the dancing. The men didn't dance, although I think they danced one dance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A man's dance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it impact their perception of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.13238358255678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a man's dance. But the men and women never danced together. That was not their custom. You danced in a line and like so, like I danced in a, in a line. Like on the beach with the fire under the stars. And you know, with this like music. And I, it's hard to describe like this feeling of just, just such another world, you know? I feel so lucky that I was able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it impact their perception of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're one of us."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.591537313951977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're one of us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I hope so. It's really hard to say. They're not the world's most communicative people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.668564585125897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I hope so. It's really hard to say. They're not the world's most communicative people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, I don't know. It certainly helped my, uh, relationship with the girls who taught me, that's for sure. They were very proud of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but the men, who knows. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, if there had been a male, if you teamed up with a, a male expert coming in, would that have made a difference in terms of getting the men moving?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2984050945843295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, I don't know. It certainly helped my, uh, relationship with the girls who taught me, that's for sure. They were very proud of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but the men, who knows. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, if there had been a male, if you teamed up with a, a male expert coming in, would that have made a difference in terms of getting the men moving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Male expert? You mean like another Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another volunteer coming in for community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.775808758746086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Male expert? You mean like another Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another volunteer coming in for community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, I'm only theorizing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I would say probably what would have happened is they would have ignored me and just followed him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.43183643175046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that I would have had any ability to impact anything in that case. I think it's better that I was there by myself, actually, but I wouldn't say I was super successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was young, I really didn't know what I was doing, and there were times when I didn't have much to do. I even taught some English just to keep myself occupied. But, you know, as I say, because I learned to weave and because I participated in the preparation of food and everything. And, you know, I kept myself busy, but I'd say my work was maybe 30 to 40 percent of my time at the most. The rest was just day to day life and, you know, like day to day life there is pretty monotonous. So by the time I left, I was ready to go. I got a farewell tattoo, a traditional island tattoo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a man's tattoo, but a separate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.479818257500511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was young, I really didn't know what I was doing, and there were times when I didn't have much to do. I even taught some English just to keep myself occupied. But, you know, as I say, because I learned to weave and because I participated in the preparation of food and everything. And, you know, I kept myself busy, but I'd say my work was maybe 30 to 40 percent of my time at the most. The rest was just day to day life and, you know, like day to day life there is pretty monotonous. So by the time I left, I was ready to go. I got a farewell tattoo, a traditional island tattoo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a man's tattoo, but a separate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a woman's tattoo. They all had tattoos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.894232149143022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's so remote, you know? I just kind of knew I never would and I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think I ever will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it may have made me very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.99359127682558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think I ever will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it may have made me very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I was ready to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people, the whole experience, or the boyfriend?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.215101418695088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it may have made me very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I was ready to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people, the whole experience, or the boyfriend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the boyfriend started it. But what, what it ultimately was really about was, yeah, the whole experience. Just the living there, you know, the people, the, the, the life, the experience, the dancing, the weaving. I mean, there was a lot, there was a lot of negative stuff. There was a lot of bad stuff, for sure, mainly boredom. But, you know, squabbles with the family, loneliness. I mean, it was very isolated. Um, we talked on the shortwave once a week and that was it. And, um, so it's not, and I never, I haven't idealized it in all these years. And I didn't then. But still it was such an incredibly unique experience. I mean, how many people get to do stuff like that? It was such an opportunity for me. I mean, I don't know that I helped them all that much, to be honest, but it was a great, great thing for me as a young person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you head off back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.142100516907515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the boyfriend started it. But what, what it ultimately was really about was, yeah, the whole experience. Just the living there, you know, the people, the, the, the life, the experience, the dancing, the weaving. I mean, there was a lot, there was a lot of negative stuff. There was a lot of bad stuff, for sure, mainly boredom. But, you know, squabbles with the family, loneliness. I mean, it was very isolated. Um, we talked on the shortwave once a week and that was it. And, um, so it's not, and I never, I haven't idealized it in all these years. And I didn't then. But still it was such an incredibly unique experience. I mean, how many people get to do stuff like that? It was such an opportunity for me. I mean, I don't know that I helped them all that much, to be honest, but it was a great, great thing for me as a young person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you head off back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I didn't go back to the States. I traveled for years after that, mainly in Asia. I lived in Japan for a long time. That's where I met the guy I mentioned who I went to Portugal with. We're still friends now. Um, and, uh, traveled all over Asia. I didn't come back to the States until I was almost 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So several years you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.566667375730473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I did, I really enjoyed traveling. I had that itch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I came back to the States and um, so, you know, I did the usual things, you know, I got a job, I got married, I had a kid, um, I became a lawyer. I just, I hardly took vacations. I just worked and worked, and it all sort of became a bit of a distant memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.851852639700526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I came back to the States and um, so, you know, I did the usual things, you know, I got a job, I got married, I had a kid, um, I became a lawyer. I just, I hardly took vacations. I just worked and worked, and it all sort of became a bit of a distant memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did for sure. And one thing I always say is that unlike I would say most Americans, um, I think I have a really clear sense of what I can do without, which most Americans have no idea. I mean, why would they? And no, not all, plenty of Americans are doing without right now. But I mean, like, I realized, at least for a long time in my life, I could completely do without every modern convenience. Um, I don't know if that's true now, but for a long time.\n\nAnd I think now I would, I would, I think I realized that what I really couldn't do without was books. And I mean, I just had to read. I just go nuts. And music. So, you know, like, I had tapes that, uh, I'm making a, a round and round gesture. Yeah, I had tapes and a tape player, and I would, like, lay my batteries out in the sun to try and, like, get just the very last charge out of them. And my family would send me batteries in every care package and, um, so, yeah, so I could listen to music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a hard time reentering America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.279836266333918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, I had a lot of adventures while I was traveling too. I lived for a couple of years on a boat and, you know, sailed all around. And I really had a lot of interesting experiences, but I put it behind me and lived a pretty traditional life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having toughed it out on Yap and so on, did that enable you more effectively in your years of travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did for sure. And one thing I always say is that unlike I would say most Americans, um, I think I have a really clear sense of what I can do without, which most Americans have no idea. I mean, why would they? And no, not all, plenty of Americans are doing without right now. But I mean, like, I realized, at least for a long time in my life, I could completely do without every modern convenience. Um, I don't know if that's true now, but for a long time.\n\nAnd I think now I would, I would, I think I realized that what I really couldn't do without was books. And I mean, I just had to read. I just go nuts. And music. So, you know, like, I had tapes that, uh, I'm making a, a round and round gesture. Yeah, I had tapes and a tape player, and I would, like, lay my batteries out in the sun to try and, like, get just the very last charge out of them. And my family would send me batteries in every care package and, um, so, yeah, so I could listen to music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a hard time reentering America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been all over."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.19225158715732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This time around has been very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the first time around? No. I think maybe because, you know. I came back, I got really involved in things. Uh, I had a kid, I went to law school. I had a lot else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Taking up my attention. Yeah. So, no, I didn't find it very hard. No. And you know, but I mean I missed certain things, but, um, not, that wasn't that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you're, you're married, you're a mother, you're working. You've got a career."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.65740958457794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Why did I do it again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. Yeah, I, it's hard. It's really hard to say. So I had a super demanding job. Um, I was a vice president for programs at the California State Parks Foundation. I was there for 13 years. This was a job I had, you know, before. Before that, I was executive director of the National Council of Jewish Women. So I had very stressful, demanding jobs that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sucked up a lot of time and energy. Um, I had started traveling again by that point because my son was already grown up. I was single and I could do what I wanted, so I volunteered in India for a month. Yeah, it was this organization called Encore. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard of it, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.74988837602215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sucked up a lot of time and energy. Um, I had started traveling again by that point because my son was already grown up. I was single and I could do what I wanted, so I volunteered in India for a month. Yeah, it was this organization called Encore. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard of it, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was ex Peace Corps volunteers. And Maura Harrington, I think is her last name, she was the executive director at that time. So that's where I met her for the first time. And we discovered, we knew we had both been in Micronesia, not at the same time. I went to India, Mumbai, and then I traveled for almost a month after that. I took a sabbatical from work, which they were generous enough to give me and, um, some other trips to Europe and stuff. And I just started traveling again, and I think that, um, affected me, and I got kind of tired of my job. It was so stressful. There were a lot of problems with our government partner, the Department of Parks and Recreation, which I won't go into here.\n\nUm, but it became harder and harder to do a good job. A lot of stonewalling and a lot of, a lot of difficulties. And they weren't difficulties that had anything to do with me personally. It was organizational. Um, so, um, I was. I do remember quite clearly, um, I had a little house up in the hills and my son was there, I don't know, doing something with me. And I was complaining to him about, you know, I have to make a change, but I didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I didn't want to just get another job that would be equally stressful. And he said to me, why don't you join the Peace Corps again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Yap."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.499875973357945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was ex Peace Corps volunteers. And Maura Harrington, I think is her last name, she was the executive director at that time. So that's where I met her for the first time. And we discovered, we knew we had both been in Micronesia, not at the same time. I went to India, Mumbai, and then I traveled for almost a month after that. I took a sabbatical from work, which they were generous enough to give me and, um, some other trips to Europe and stuff. And I just started traveling again, and I think that, um, affected me, and I got kind of tired of my job. It was so stressful. There were a lot of problems with our government partner, the Department of Parks and Recreation, which I won't go into here.\n\nUm, but it became harder and harder to do a good job. A lot of stonewalling and a lot of, a lot of difficulties. And they weren't difficulties that had anything to do with me personally. It was organizational. Um, so, um, I was. I do remember quite clearly, um, I had a little house up in the hills and my son was there, I don't know, doing something with me. And I was complaining to him about, you know, I have to make a change, but I didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I didn't want to just get another job that would be equally stressful. And he said to me, why don't you join the Peace Corps again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Yap."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was your son at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.444306637064383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, Jim, are you insane? Like, why would I do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Yap."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was your son at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.604785152293758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't do that anymore. And, you know, like, well, what would I do with the house and why? I had all these reasons not to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was your son at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, he was in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.775316494884557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, but I remember him standing there saying that to me, and I think he planted a seed somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so I, I guess I started thinking about it. And then I do remember this. It was May, I remember that. I don't remember what year, but probably 2015 or '14 I guess. It was May and things had gotten much worse at work, and I was really stressed out, and I had something happen at work that I really didn't like. It was a bad day. And I thought, I came home and I filled out the application online. I'm like, you know, like I just, I have to do something. It was almost like on a whim almost, you know, and like, boom. Like the whole thing happened so fast. I filled it out in May. I just remember that because it was almost my birthday, and by the following January it was all set. And I left in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Georgia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. So the application was different. Like you couldn't say where you wanted to go. You could just say where you didn't want to go. And I really agonized over that. But finally I said I didn't want to go to Jordan because I didn't think that I would be, being Jewish, that it would be, you know, given all the tensions that it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be in 2014? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 23.083684994316172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so I, I guess I started thinking about it. And then I do remember this. It was May, I remember that. I don't remember what year, but probably 2015 or '14 I guess. It was May and things had gotten much worse at work, and I was really stressed out, and I had something happen at work that I really didn't like. It was a bad day. And I thought, I came home and I filled out the application online. I'm like, you know, like I just, I have to do something. It was almost like on a whim almost, you know, and like, boom. Like the whole thing happened so fast. I filled it out in May. I just remember that because it was almost my birthday, and by the following January it was all set. And I left in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Georgia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. So the application was different. Like you couldn't say where you wanted to go. You could just say where you didn't want to go. And I really agonized over that. But finally I said I didn't want to go to Jordan because I didn't think that I would be, being Jewish, that it would be, you know, given all the tensions that it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be in 2014? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that it would be a good idea. But other than that, I was willing to go anywhere. I kind of suspected, given my background, that it would be somewhere in Eastern Europe. So when I got the offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The background, your legal background?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.959211831387776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, um, what, what actually. The reason they left is just because when Georgia dropped out of the Soviet Union, when the Soviet Union broke up, Georgia was the first country to leave. And they left, but they had no government. They had no currency, they had no banks, they had no utilities. They didn't have safe water or electricity. They, they literally had lived so long under Soviet rule, they had no idea like how to make a country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And things were very, very, very hard there for a good many years. And there was a lot of crime. There was like a Georgian mafia, there was a lot of bribery and all the things you would expect in a situation like that. And the Jews had the ability to leave and go to Israel, so they did. So. But the Georgians miss them and they always, you know, they would always talk to me about it. We had neighbors or still they keep in touch with their former neighbors in Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so, you know, I could see that there was not a big problem there with that. And I read about it and it looked like so interesting and I'm like, I'm going. So I accepted the offer. I didn't, I'm like, I must be insane. I'll never forget giving notice at work. Oh my God. I mean, it wasn't like I was giving notice at McDonald's. You know, I ran like millions of dollars’ worth of programs. And I'm still friends with my boss. She left too, and not that long after me. She's, she's head of the Municipal Art Society in New York now. We're still in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She forgave you for leaving her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.033212388734945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty mad at first, to tell you the truth. But she, she, she was, she was nice about it. I had two goodbye parties, one in LA, one in San Francisco. And the one in San Francisco, they made, like they had like 100 photographs of me throughout all those years. Me with different people doing different things. They were just printed out on paper but popped up on the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Marvelous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, it was a very, very and. And in San Francisco, when we said goodbye, she was crying. I was shocked, I really was. But off I went. Yeah. It was like I sold the house. And luckily for me, the market was just going back up and that right then and I sold my house, which made me very sad. But because it was a great little house. But I had to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.886621534423023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I had to pay for all that out of pocket, like a lot of applicants do, oh my gosh. So I was very lucky, but I got through all that, I got accepted. I didn't give notice until the medical stuff was done because I wanted to make sure. But yeah, so off I went. We left in April of 2014 and, uh, we went for orientation for like a week at a place called Bazaleti. There were about 50 of us, 50, more, maybe more like 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Georgia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, in my group. It was, that's the standard size of the groups. There's always 100 to 120 or something of Peace Corps in Georgia. And then we went to, uh, the town where we were going to live with families for training. And, um, we met our families in a park, uh, you know, like, they stood on one side and we stood on the other side and it's a, it's a town called Khashuri. And, uh, they would like call your name and you'd come forward and they'd call the name of your host family. They'd come forward and like off you'd go. And so public, you know, somebody was videotaping it. That's how they do it, though. I don't know how they do it in other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it. You take off with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're on your way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.65180170491447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, in my group. It was, that's the standard size of the groups. There's always 100 to 120 or something of Peace Corps in Georgia. And then we went to, uh, the town where we were going to live with families for training. And, um, we met our families in a park, uh, you know, like, they stood on one side and we stood on the other side and it's a, it's a town called Khashuri. And, uh, they would like call your name and you'd come forward and they'd call the name of your host family. They'd come forward and like off you'd go. And so public, you know, somebody was videotaping it. That's how they do it, though. I don't know how they do it in other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it. You take off with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're on your way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this part of the training or was this your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.459014450511688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this part of the training or was this your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. This was, this was the family you stayed with for your training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so, uh, we. I went, my family was, um, a woman named Eka, and she had two grown sons and her mother in law she lived with. Her husband had gone to Ukraine to work and, like, married another woman and just left her completely destitute. So part of the reason she took in Peace Corps volunteers was, you know, for the money. But she was very nice, very nice. I'm really, um, you know, very fond of her.\n\nAnd I just remember at one point, like when we got there, my bedroom was going to be upstairs, and I had, you know, big heavy bags of luggage, and I put them down. She didn't speak any English. And she said to me in Georgian, the boys, her son, the boys will take it and take it upstairs. So the word for boys in Georgian is, is, um, let me see. Without. It's not that I don't remember the word. I have to put it in the right form of speech. And, and so if you're speaking to somebody, you say bicho. And if you're making it plural, biches. So she said, biches will take the luggage. And I'm like, the bitches, what? I know, I was so confused. Oh my God.\n\nSo we start, uh, we, we went to a school, um, for our training, and we had language all morning. And then in the afternoon we had all sorts of training related. Then we broke out into, um, um, into groups, uh, like teachers were one group and IOD was another group. So we did a lot of stuff related to IOD training, training on grant writing, you know, training on organizational effectiveness. Training was very good there, very good. And the language training was excellent. Georgian is one of the ten most difficult languages in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can believe it, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.949265364213563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's got a grammatical structure that's enough to make your head explode. It's so hard. I never became fluent. A few people did, one person in particular in my group. But it's just so, so hard, long, hard to say too, long strings of consonants together. Like you can have up to five consonants in a row in a word. How are you supposed to say that? Um, it's a very, very challenging language. And the teachers were great, and it's amazing how much I learned.\n\nThe one thing that happened during training that I didn't like at all was that there were like about, they put us into clusters. And the clusters went to class together, language class, and had lunch at each other's houses every day all through training. And what they did was they took all the older people and put them in one cluster. And I was very upset. I felt, and so were others too, we all felt like we were being somehow kind of stigmatized. And in the end, there were two people in our class who were good enough in language that they got moved to other more advanced classes. I was in the middle. I was neither the worst or the best. And unfortunately, then what they did was they took two young people who were really struggling and put them in our class. So I then became the best in the class and was like really pulled down by the problems that other people were having.\n\nSo my language training was problematic. On the other hand, if they had taken us and put us, just mixed us in randomly, apparently that had caused a lot of problems in the past too. So I don't really know what the answer is, but I really didn't like being put in a group based solely on my age, you know? I felt like we should all sink or swim on our own merits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was that training period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.49918373801507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was that training period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then assignment came."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.110204153350075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then assignment came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then assignment. Yeah. We got our assignments about the middle of the training. Um, I remember that day vividly. First we had language tests and you had to achieve a certain level, which I did by the skin of my teeth. I think they were just being nice, but, um. Uh, and then this is the way they do it. They still do it this way in Georgia, I just saw somebody a few weeks ago who told me.\n\nThey make the, the staff, they make a big map of Georgia with like tape or something, um, out in the playground of the school. And they put like rocks where the main cities and assignments are, and then they give an envelope to one person and it has someone's name on it. So they call that person's name. And that person like, you were all circled around the map, comes out and like takes the envelope and opens it. I'm going to, you know, Kutaisi. And then they walk over and stand on the Kutaisi stone. And then that just like continues throughout. Everybody's giving each other assignments and everybody's walking to their different places. And in the end, we're all standing on the place where we are. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace corps coordinator is giving out the assignments and then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.011337948166748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then assignment came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then assignment. Yeah. We got our assignments about the middle of the training. Um, I remember that day vividly. First we had language tests and you had to achieve a certain level, which I did by the skin of my teeth. I think they were just being nice, but, um. Uh, and then this is the way they do it. They still do it this way in Georgia, I just saw somebody a few weeks ago who told me.\n\nThey make the, the staff, they make a big map of Georgia with like tape or something, um, out in the playground of the school. And they put like rocks where the main cities and assignments are, and then they give an envelope to one person and it has someone's name on it. So they call that person's name. And that person like, you were all circled around the map, comes out and like takes the envelope and opens it. I'm going to, you know, Kutaisi. And then they walk over and stand on the Kutaisi stone. And then that just like continues throughout. Everybody's giving each other assignments and everybody's walking to their different places. And in the end, we're all standing on the place where we are. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace corps coordinator is giving out the assignments and then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. You've already been pegged for an assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.260911047119436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. You've already been pegged for an assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Totally. So, um, and then after that, off you go to, um. Um, wait. I'm trying to remember the order of this exactly. Because then, yeah, then you go, we went to another place. We had, like an orientation weekend where we meet the people, our counterparts, who are going to be working with. We were back in Bazaleti actually, more training. And then there's a big thing. It was very similar to when we met our training host family. Big crowd, pulling names, coming forward. Yes. Oh my God. It's, um, so I, uh, I met my, uh, the person who ran the organization I was going to be working with. Her name also is Eka. There's, like, six names in Georgia. Nino, Miya, Eka, a few others. Salomé. Um, there's just not, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the, what was the organization? Was it a NGO or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.843777841908184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They both are food inspectors for the government, they don't need. It's not a money thing. As a matter of fact, when I tried to give them my last prorated month of money, she refused to take it. You need it for your new apartment. I had to put it on a shelf. That was very un- Georgian, but I maintained my relationship with them the whole time. I went there every weekend for dinner, and I formed an especially close relationship with their oldest daughter, Salome, who's very bright. I helped her with her English, not in terms of really tutoring, but we read The Hunger Games together and every week we would discuss a chapter. When the third movie came out, we went to Tbilisi together, and it was such an adventure to see the third movie. It was like a little expedition out to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with these people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I am. All of them, especially Salome. Salome, actually, after the Peace Corps, as I think I've mentioned, I stayed in Georgia for like three more years just until I came here. And she lived with me in Tbilisi. She had her own room, and it was only supposed to be a month or two because her parents bought her a tiny apartment in Tbilisi to live in when she went to college. But there was some big dispute with the gas company. I never could quite get what the problem exactly was, but it took years to resolve. So the whole time she lived with me. So I'll just say like she's like a daughter to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember once I was complaining to my son like, she's never leaving. I mean, like she, she lived in the second bedroom, which was my office, and I had my own business writing grants, so like I kind of needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that what you did post Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.350343014701462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember once I was complaining to my son like, she's never leaving. I mean, like she, she lived in the second bedroom, which was my office, and I had my own business writing grants, so like I kind of needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that what you did post Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I had lots of clients, including CHCA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, I, uh, I like I wanted my office back and he's like, well, mom, you know, you always wanted a daughter. And I'm like, yeah, but like 20 years ago, okay, not now. But truthfully, she is like a daughter to me. I mean, we're Skyping tomorrow. We Skype every three weeks. We text all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is her name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.839929647779583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, I, uh, I like I wanted my office back and he's like, well, mom, you know, you always wanted a daughter. And I'm like, yeah, but like 20 years ago, okay, not now. But truthfully, she is like a daughter to me. I mean, we're Skyping tomorrow. We Skype every three weeks. We text all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Salome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Solome."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Salome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Solome with an O?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.456703268863682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Salome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Solome with an O?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. S. Well, is there an O in there? S-A-L-O-M-E. Salome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be a Georgian agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.951892520959646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. S. Well, is there an O in there? S-A-L-O-M-E. Salome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be a Georgian agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, not if you're working in LA."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.390991689955163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has a sister, Nutsa, who's a very naughty girl. And, uh. But I'm especially close with Salome. Salome is, um, very intelligent, very ambitious, very driven. And she just got an internship with, uh, Transparency International that I helped her with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be a Georgian agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, not if you're working in LA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, Georgia, you can drive from one end to the other end in like 11 hours or so. So yes, I mean, it's a lot easier now than of course Micronesia ever would have been. Even now, I think, I mean, I can text, I can Facebook, I can internet, I, you know, it's. I can send packages, they can send packages to me. But so I text with her mom too. And this is how I keep up my Georgian a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you leave Georgia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.767768544394626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. It is a Georgian one. I mean, it's an international NGO in Georgia. And she just came back from six months in Germany, where she studied on the Erasmus program, and she's applying for programs that come to the U.S. to study. She said, I'll come stay with you, Sara. It's like people just don't understand how big the United States is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, not if you're working in LA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, Georgia, you can drive from one end to the other end in like 11 hours or so. So yes, I mean, it's a lot easier now than of course Micronesia ever would have been. Even now, I think, I mean, I can text, I can Facebook, I can internet, I, you know, it's. I can send packages, they can send packages to me. But so I text with her mom too. And this is how I keep up my Georgian a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you leave Georgia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, ten months ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten months ago. So you're kind of a new arrival here after a long tenure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.651566104190897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, ten months ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten months ago. So you're kind of a new arrival here after a long tenure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Georgia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been a big adjustment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has that been tough?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.057295671323218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Georgia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been a big adjustment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has that been tough?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because, I mean, it's a big adjustment being from the West Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is not L.A."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.009007001633602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because, I mean, it's a big adjustment being from the West Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is not L.A."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not. To North Carolina as well as from Georgia. And so, you know, I mean, I came for a job and I'm working in an office. It's just such a different environment than Georgia, it's just so different and not in a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's been it's a big adjustment, a big adjustment. But, you know, um, I mean, I'm surviving. So in terms of Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what. But the people you're working with here, it just isn't like Georgia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.565563335148447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not. To North Carolina as well as from Georgia. And so, you know, I mean, I came for a job and I'm working in an office. It's just such a different environment than Georgia, it's just so different and not in a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's been it's a big adjustment, a big adjustment. But, you know, um, I mean, I'm surviving. So in terms of Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what. But the people you're working with here, it just isn't like Georgia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're very nice people. I don't want to say anything bad about my current position, but it's just the kind of social ties that you make there. The kinds of friendships and the kinds of, um, relationships you have at the office that just don't exist here. It's just different. It's been a big, big adjustment for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More distant here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.87106584586228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're very nice people. I don't want to say anything bad about my current position, but it's just the kind of social ties that you make there. The kinds of friendships and the kinds of, um, relationships you have at the office that just don't exist here. It's just different. It's been a big, big adjustment for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More distant here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Less personable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.482797340570716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone eats lunch at their desk at my office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, in Georgia, it's, it's a, it's a group thing. There's often wine involved. And it's just not, it's just different. It's a little hard to explain because there's something amorphous about it. And Georgian people can be on the surface actually quite unfriendly. Like if they don't know you, they don't pay any attention to you. It's not like they've got it out for you, but they just like walk by you on the street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like that in Armenia as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.091997045078573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone eats lunch at their desk at my office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, in Georgia, it's, it's a, it's a group thing. There's often wine involved. And it's just not, it's just different. It's a little hard to explain because there's something amorphous about it. And Georgian people can be on the surface actually quite unfriendly. Like if they don't know you, they don't pay any attention to you. It's not like they've got it out for you, but they just like walk by you on the street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like that in Armenia as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but in, um, but your family and your, all the extended family and then the friends that you make, you become like family to them. That's a whole different world. And anybody you bring, they will treat like family. So, like when my friend Malcolm came with two other friends, we had supra at my family's house. There was toasting, uh, you know, my friend Malcolm speaks fluent Russian. So my host father, Basil, was so happy that he finally had somebody he could talk about politics with because that was beyond my Georgian capabilities. Um, when my son came, oh my God, giant supra expeditions out to Ateni."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sara's boy is here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.520984006269843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but in, um, but your family and your, all the extended family and then the friends that you make, you become like family to them. That's a whole different world. And anybody you bring, they will treat like family. So, like when my friend Malcolm came with two other friends, we had supra at my family's house. There was toasting, uh, you know, my friend Malcolm speaks fluent Russian. So my host father, Basil, was so happy that he finally had somebody he could talk about politics with because that was beyond my Georgian capabilities. Um, when my son came, oh my God, giant supra expeditions out to Ateni."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sara's boy is here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Big deal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he get married off while he was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.28516543983931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he get married off while he was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have liked it. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Yeah. I didn't get it so much because I'm older. But the young girls, oh my God, they were constantly. Beautiful, educated, smart American girls were, like, pushed into the arms of, you know, farm louts, you know, guys who didn't even finish high school and couldn't speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.205739377599233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have liked it. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Yeah. I didn't get it so much because I'm older. But the young girls, oh my God, they were constantly. Beautiful, educated, smart American girls were, like, pushed into the arms of, you know, farm louts, you know, guys who didn't even finish high school and couldn't speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are. So I mean, I really loved it there. I loved, um, the people and, you know, and that culture that, that. Uh, there are things about the culture I didn't like certainly, but, but overall, it was just a culture I felt very comfortable in and like I could be part of. And I worked hard on my Georgian, and I learned actually a lot even after I left the Peace Corps. And I had to use it a little more in Tbilisi than in Gori, which was surprising. In Gori, when I would try and use my Georgian, I'd go in a store and try and use it. They would just stare at me and they would say [speaks Georgian] which means I don't understand you. I can't understand you. They wouldn't like make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of a regional dialectical difference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.228599308443592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet they're like, oh, I want to marry an American. As if an American girl would have any interest in him. It was hysterical. The, the huge divide in perception, you know, about American girls and what they wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Georgian mothers are always proud of their sons, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are. So I mean, I really loved it there. I loved, um, the people and, you know, and that culture that, that. Uh, there are things about the culture I didn't like certainly, but, but overall, it was just a culture I felt very comfortable in and like I could be part of. And I worked hard on my Georgian, and I learned actually a lot even after I left the Peace Corps. And I had to use it a little more in Tbilisi than in Gori, which was surprising. In Gori, when I would try and use my Georgian, I'd go in a store and try and use it. They would just stare at me and they would say [speaks Georgian] which means I don't understand you. I can't understand you. They wouldn't like make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of a regional dialectical difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just because I had an accent, I was a foreigner. And, you know, if I'd spoken Russian. Yeah. But in Tbilisi, they're a little more used to foreigners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.689628775856284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just because I had an accent, I was a foreigner. And, you know, if I'd spoken Russian. Yeah. But in Tbilisi, they're a little more used to foreigners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were still a lot of people who didn't speak English. And I'd have, you know, shop owners in my area where I lived, and I'd have to speak, uh, Georgian with them. And they were willing to speak Georgian with me. You know, they weren't just. Gori people are a little cold, but I still loved it there. I had an apartment with a great view. I had my family, I had Marta. I really enjoyed my work, as I say, uh, a lot of grants. And I would go into Tbilisi like about once a week, um, and go to the main office there. And I would go to lunch and we would talk about politics, we would talk about the organization of Abkhazia, the IDP situation in Georgia. I learned so much from that. I really did. She left the organization to go work for the Danish Refugee Council, and her husband Nukri became the director, and I worked for him for a couple of years after the Peace Corps. Very difficult man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was in Tbilisi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.544031973173649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were still a lot of people who didn't speak English. And I'd have, you know, shop owners in my area where I lived, and I'd have to speak, uh, Georgian with them. And they were willing to speak Georgian with me. You know, they weren't just. Gori people are a little cold, but I still loved it there. I had an apartment with a great view. I had my family, I had Marta. I really enjoyed my work, as I say, uh, a lot of grants. And I would go into Tbilisi like about once a week, um, and go to the main office there. And I would go to lunch and we would talk about politics, we would talk about the organization of Abkhazia, the IDP situation in Georgia. I learned so much from that. I really did. She left the organization to go work for the Danish Refugee Council, and her husband Nukri became the director, and I worked for him for a couple of years after the Peace Corps. Very difficult man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was in Tbilisi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Further acumen and so on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2711466368596085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He didn't speak any English. So we would get in fights and I'd have to use my Georgian. And usually there was another person in the office with us, and they'd be very impressed by the fact that I was able to express myself in Georgian because I spoke English most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you went to Georgia and your second stint with a great deal of organizational skill in your toolbox and so on. Did you come out with further?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Further acumen and so on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was within Georgia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.079051818732898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Further acumen and so on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was within Georgia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.976724243036553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely. Especially vis a vis grant writing. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I mean, mainly I kind of well, I learned most of it from Eka. Um, but I also just learned a lot by doing, simply by doing. And I'm also, I wanted to and I applied for only the, um, what was it called? The SPA committee. Uh, small project something? I forget the acronym, but it was the grant committee of Peace Corps. So part of our job, and I totally did this all the time, was to review the grant applications that Peace Corps volunteers all over the country were making to the SPA program, which was funded by USAID. And there was someone from USAID on the committee too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was within Georgia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Oh, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.974138047818393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All within Georgia. And, you know, it was a Peace Corps grant program funded by USAID. And people often applied for like an English classroom in their school. We got so tired of seeing those. But then there were all sorts of other innovative grants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you maintained a tie-in with the Peace Corps and programs as well through the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.082375608687103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, this was not after Peace Corps. This was during."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.681945195910004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was it actually. I still stayed friends with a few people in the office and had lunch now and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was not a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And Peace Corps comes and goes. You had ties."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.768194768393861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we formed a board. We really cemented the relationship with MAC. Um, we, um, held these events. We held one in Gori. It was great. It worked because there's a disabled center there, actually, whose director is in a wheelchair. And so it was really easy to recruit the kids. It's a little harder to recruit the volunteers, but, um, it went very, very well. And we would have them like every other month all over the country. And MAC, uh, brought some resources to that and supported it.\n\nAnd I actually ended up being, doing a lot of grant writing consulting for MAC after I left the Peace Corps. The head of it is, um, his name's Jeremy Gaskill. He was a Peace Corps volunteer, he and his wife, in the, uh, 19, 19, late 1990s in, uh, Zestaponi, which is a rather godforsaken place. Um, and so he came back. He's got three kids, and they live in Georgia, and he runs the organization. I did a lot of grant writing for them. He's a great guy. Um, so, um, that was, that was an organization I was really quite pleased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Working with and being associated with and putting on those events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.2979941871042895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Working with and being associated with and putting on those events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I work for, I work for a nonprofit, Ipas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ipas, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.664437985671433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have photos, and I even have some hysterical videos of this guy, Russell. He was in Gori, actually. He worked with another nonprofit there. So he's arm wrestling with this kid. Uh, actually, she wasn't really a kid, young woman. And he's arm wrestling. And of course, you know, he lets her win, of course, but he's, like, grimacing and making all these faces. And, you know, when, when he finally gets slammed down, the look on her face, she was so pleased with herself. We made up all the activities and brought in people. It was great. I really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back here now. Uh, are you continuing in the not- for-profit vein here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I work for, I work for a nonprofit, Ipas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ipas, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're in, um, uh, Southern Village, Chapel Hill. So a lot of driving. Um, I'm there on contract. I'm there, well, I got promoted recently, so now I'm their senior contracting grant manager. But I don't do grant writing anymore. That job doesn't involve writing. It's more legal in nature, compliance and stuff like that. But, um, yeah, it's a good job. Well paid, good benefits, but socially it's a little bleak. So, um, I'm finding that ageism here in the U.S. is, it's quite subtle, and I certainly can't accuse Ipas of it. I mean, they hired me, so obviously, I mean, they, they took a gamble in that way. But, um, the, it's mostly young women there. And like, they're perfectly nice to me, but no one has ever invited me anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.557528101058207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just think it doesn't occur to them. You know, it's like, what could she possibly have in common with us? In the Peace Corps, those young people are forced to associate with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even then, you know, there was some resistance in Georgia. But, I mean, thankfully, there was a big enough group of people that there were plenty who weren't that way at all. I became, I just put my friend efforts over there and ignored the other ones. But here it's a lot harder. Um, I mean, all my friends in Georgia are young, all of them. I don't even have any, I don't even have any old friends. Really. But, uh, yeah. So it's, but it's, it's a nice place. I'm just putting my efforts elsewhere, like, I'm involved with this group called You Can Vote, which is just a nonpartisan political, you know, voter enfranchisement organization. And I'm meeting with them next week, as a matter of fact, to talk about doing some grant writing for them, because I just want to, I really enjoy writing and I'd like to keep doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically, if you want a social life, it's not going to be in the workplace. It's going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going to explore the community and find niches that would be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8416978900646743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even then, you know, there was some resistance in Georgia. But, I mean, thankfully, there was a big enough group of people that there were plenty who weren't that way at all. I became, I just put my friend efforts over there and ignored the other ones. But here it's a lot harder. Um, I mean, all my friends in Georgia are young, all of them. I don't even have any, I don't even have any old friends. Really. But, uh, yeah. So it's, but it's, it's a nice place. I'm just putting my efforts elsewhere, like, I'm involved with this group called You Can Vote, which is just a nonpartisan political, you know, voter enfranchisement organization. And I'm meeting with them next week, as a matter of fact, to talk about doing some grant writing for them, because I just want to, I really enjoy writing and I'd like to keep doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically, if you want a social life, it's not going to be in the workplace. It's going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going to explore the community and find niches that would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open to, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3971578889687337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open to, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that's why I got involved with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I do, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6635087655208154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that's why I got involved with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I do, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.959454183912017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. To like, you know, meet people. And, um, you know, I go to the happy hour sometimes, not every month, but. And I have met some nice people, particularly Thomas. You know Thomas?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I do, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, he was in [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. Well, that's a commonality. That's, you know, that's a start."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.177171315457797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because he also was in Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, he was in [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. Well, that's a commonality. That's, you know, that's a start."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peggy Schaffer, she's very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know Peggy. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.687865821552836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peggy Schaffer, she's very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know Peggy. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's very, she's been very nice to me and helped connect me with a number of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sometimes I go to the book club. Unfortunately, I just haven't managed recently, but I like it, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've gone to a couple of those, but I can't schedule it in. It's just."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7931985665342949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very recently here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Raleigh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, we drove together. She drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was there too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.21382539078308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, we drove together. She drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was there too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you were?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I was there too. Do you remember me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a rather large Victorian house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4598059897589777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you were?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I was there too. Do you remember me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a rather large Victorian house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.165703042827105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm like, oh gosh. I started crying just to hear the Georgian, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he has a good accent too. And you know, I turned around and we kissed, which is the typical, very typical. Once, one kiss. Go, go right. And, uh, men to men all kiss each other. Women all kiss each other, and even women kiss men. I mean, that is the, that's a business greeting in Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally I had people who would try and shake hands with me, and I would tell them in Georgia, like, cut it out. We're in Georgia, now give me a kiss. But people, you know, who I worked for, worked with. But, um, yeah, Nukri always did that. He was always shaking. Nukri, for God's sake! But, uh. So, yeah. So we kissed and then we started, you know, we immediately switched to English, but I mean, just to hear the language, it was great. So we've become friendly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate your taking the time to share your story with us."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.628558936474561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he has a good accent too. And you know, I turned around and we kissed, which is the typical, very typical. Once, one kiss. Go, go right. And, uh, men to men all kiss each other. Women all kiss each other, and even women kiss men. I mean, that is the, that's a business greeting in Georgia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally I had people who would try and shake hands with me, and I would tell them in Georgia, like, cut it out. We're in Georgia, now give me a kiss. But people, you know, who I worked for, worked with. But, um, yeah, Nukri always did that. He was always shaking. Nukri, for God's sake! But, uh. So, yeah. So we kissed and then we started, you know, we immediately switched to English, but I mean, just to hear the language, it was great. So we've become friendly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate your taking the time to share your story with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. How long have I been talking? I don't know. Not that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any final comments or that you might want to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.349189213271002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, I did it twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So obviously I'm a supporter of Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's, um, I, you know, I think it's just, expands your worldview in, in a way that cannot be found otherwise. It's unique because, you know, you, even if you travel a lot, even if you stay somewhere, it's just completely different from being really embedded and living in a community, working in a community. It's a rare experience. And I think for Americans in particular, it's really important. And, um, I think that, you know, you get as much from it as they get from you and in some cases more.\n\nAnd, um, you know, I mean, it's not perfect for everybody. There's definitely people who really struggle with it. Um, and then there's other people who just do great and they're so happy, and everything in between. So you have to have, you know, reasonable expectations, be flexible, you know, be able to endure a lot of like emotional upheaval. Um, But, you know, in the end, I think it's, it's totally, totally worth it. And, you know, I'm very, I do not regret for a minute that I did it, either time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm guessing that Georgia will continue to be a part of your, your existence in some ways."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.369369399100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's, um, I, you know, I think it's just, expands your worldview in, in a way that cannot be found otherwise. It's unique because, you know, you, even if you travel a lot, even if you stay somewhere, it's just completely different from being really embedded and living in a community, working in a community. It's a rare experience. And I think for Americans in particular, it's really important. And, um, I think that, you know, you get as much from it as they get from you and in some cases more.\n\nAnd, um, you know, I mean, it's not perfect for everybody. There's definitely people who really struggle with it. Um, and then there's other people who just do great and they're so happy, and everything in between. So you have to have, you know, reasonable expectations, be flexible, you know, be able to endure a lot of like emotional upheaval. Um, But, you know, in the end, I think it's, it's totally, totally worth it. And, you know, I'm very, I do not regret for a minute that I did it, either time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm guessing that Georgia will continue to be a part of your, your existence in some ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. It will. Actually, next month. Um, I signed up for this. Thomas is having a supra. Supra, it's a feast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember it. Yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.965965999000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. It will. Actually, next month. Um, I signed up for this. Thomas is having a supra. Supra, it's a feast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember it. Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.628851110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At his house. And, you know, it's part of the silent auction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember it. Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll do some toasting. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you getting Georgian wine?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.143167900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I bid on it just because I thought it would be fun. So I'm going to bring some Georgian wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll do some toasting. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you getting Georgian wine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to order it from D.C. Good God. I've been in every wine shop in the Triangle. It's, and haven't found any. And you know, it's the birthplace of wine. It's archeologically proven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would believe so, yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very, the, the Micronesia experience was a typical Peace Corps experience. Sleeping on the floor, no running water, put the batteries out in the sun. You know, that. Eating dog, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, and the Georgia experience was the polar opposite. I had an apartment, it had a shower. Okay, I had to keep a bucket in there for when the water went off, but I had to climb up five flights. Oh my God, all the windows knocked out and a million wires running along the concrete walls from where everybody bootlegged into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was, you know, I had a. It was a, it had a sink. It had a shower. I had a washing machine. It was, it was pretty basic by American standards. You'd be living in public housing. But for Georgia, it was just completely typical. And but it was so, it was just completely the opposite. I lived in a city and an apartment. I had a cell phone that worked. I could Skype with my son, you know, it's just completely different. And yet each experience was really, really valuable and really, really important in my life in very different ways. But I think the underlying value of Peace Corps to help people become more independent, to gain skills, you know, to like meet those three goals at Peace Corps has, was the same. The same. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get more young Americans into the Peace Corps, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. From what I've read, there's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think that this new, well, it's not that new anymore, but relatively new application system where you apply for specific jobs. Uh, I have very mixed feelings about it, but I don't think it can be disputed that it's resulted in a lot more applications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I've heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good. Good. Yes. Well, I want to thank you, Sara Feldman, for your oral history of two important stints in the Peace Corps. And I will process this, uh, interview and, and get the information to the JFK Library, and you'll be hearing from them. And you will have access to any and all of this if you need, for any reason, once it's processed and digitalized and so on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00126:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think that this new, well, it's not that new anymore, but relatively new application system where you apply for specific jobs. Uh, I have very mixed feelings about it, but I don't think it can be disputed that it's resulted in a lot more applications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I've heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good. Good. Yes. Well, I want to thank you, Sara Feldman, for your oral history of two important stints in the Peace Corps. And I will process this, uh, interview and, and get the information to the JFK Library, and you'll be hearing from them. And you will have access to any and all of this if you need, for any reason, once it's processed and digitalized and so on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.387754120488102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was signed in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us more details?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had months of discussion about the limitations that we wanted placed on the testing that the Russians would do, and finally we reached an agreement which we shared with agency managers for the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that at the end of the long stay in Russia for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.76417124498678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had months of discussion about the limitations that we wanted placed on the testing that the Russians would do, and finally we reached an agreement which we shared with agency managers for the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that at the end of the long stay in Russia for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.293523605540868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a component of a fairly major meeting on the Shuttle-Mir Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this program take you to Russia several times a year or on occasion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.881692895045408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would usually go to Russia two to three times a year. I remember going to Russia for a meeting of their medical board, and I stayed in Russia slightly less than twenty-four hours, and then came home. It was a quick trip. That's a long way to go for a meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More time in the air than you did on ground. Is that a correct statement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.42410321671712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. About twice as long in the air as on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your surgeons were there, they were there day to day with the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. We had to get agreement with the Russians. That was very easy. The Russians were very quick to accommodate them. We agreed that part of their Prophylactory, at the Gagarin Cosmonaut training Center, which is similar to a small hotel, could be used by NASA. We still use an area on the second floor of the building. The physicians who are sent to assist our crewmembers stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the American residents are on the Mir, your flight surgeons are in contact with them on a daily basis. Is that correct? Or can be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.9156702407968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Our flight surgeons lived in the Russian post flight rehabilitation facility called the Prophylactory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you instrumental in setting up their initial stay? Was that part of your negotiations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. We had to get agreement with the Russians. That was very easy. The Russians were very quick to accommodate them. We agreed that part of their Prophylactory, at the Gagarin Cosmonaut training Center, which is similar to a small hotel, could be used by NASA. We still use an area on the second floor of the building. The physicians who are sent to assist our crewmembers stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the American residents are on the Mir, your flight surgeons are in contact with them on a daily basis. Is that correct? Or can be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The communications with the Mir, as you may know, is very limited. It's one of the really difficult areas for people supporting the program, because the opportunity to speak with the crew on board was very limited. It's a matter of satellites and ground stations and access. So we asked the Russians to permit us to speak to our crewmen privately, each day, and to a certain extent we achieved that. But there were days in which we didn't get to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that was new for them, to have that request?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.572966934218666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. We had to get agreement with the Russians. That was very easy. The Russians were very quick to accommodate them. We agreed that part of their Prophylactory, at the Gagarin Cosmonaut training Center, which is similar to a small hotel, could be used by NASA. We still use an area on the second floor of the building. The physicians who are sent to assist our crewmembers stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the American residents are on the Mir, your flight surgeons are in contact with them on a daily basis. Is that correct? Or can be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The communications with the Mir, as you may know, is very limited. It's one of the really difficult areas for people supporting the program, because the opportunity to speak with the crew on board was very limited. It's a matter of satellites and ground stations and access. So we asked the Russians to permit us to speak to our crewmen privately, each day, and to a certain extent we achieved that. But there were days in which we didn't get to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that was new for them, to have that request?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't talk--still don't, as far as I know--that often, but they do have infrequent private medical sessions with their crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there an area when you were negotiating that took more time than others to reach the area of satisfaction that you wanted?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.192185482465185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The communications with the Mir, as you may know, is very limited. It's one of the really difficult areas for people supporting the program, because the opportunity to speak with the crew on board was very limited. It's a matter of satellites and ground stations and access. So we asked the Russians to permit us to speak to our crewmen privately, each day, and to a certain extent we achieved that. But there were days in which we didn't get to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that was new for them, to have that request?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't talk--still don't, as far as I know--that often, but they do have infrequent private medical sessions with their crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there an area when you were negotiating that took more time than others to reach the area of satisfaction that you wanted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most difficult negotiations we had over the course of the program was the medical certification issue. What constituted a medically certified crew member? We had experience working with internationals. The Russians had had experience working with internationals as well, so maybe our experiences were somewhat comparable in that. When we first started dealing with ESA and other international partners, I think we had some pretty carefully thought-out limitations on what we would accept from them in terms of data and tests and so on. So we frequently reran all the tests they had done. As we developed a relationship with them, then we became more open and more trusting in our work with them, and now we accept them pretty much as equals in this arena, in this medical arena.\\n\\n The Russians had maintained their sort of limited, less trusting relationship up until the start of Mir. So one of the difficulties we had was to develop the ability to trust each other. But that sort of thing takes time, and it took time in this case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a turning point or a specific situation when you realized that that trust and that relationship had now begun?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.064297336481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language has been an issue, and, I suspect, will continue to be. There were some concerns at times about how well understood the training was, and even getting good feedback as to whether or not the training was appropriately received was difficult. So I think language is an issue and will continue to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you prepare written materials in both languages for them? How did we go about giving them what they needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attempted to, but not in all cases were we successful in doing that. It just takes too much time. The job was just too massive, and I think it would really be difficult for us to do that so that our Japanese, Italian, Dutch, French, you name it. Fortunately, for many people, particularly in Western Europe, they speak English really well, and it's not much of a problem. As a matter of fact, many of the Japanese do as well, and certainly the Canadians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might be interesting to have the translators be skilled in medical knowledge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are. We were very careful on occasion to employ people who were skilled both in the language as well as the discipline, physicians, for example, and other allied health personnel who were also gifted in translating were used and are used today. We did that early on. We've done that for years. We've had a group of people both on our side and on the Russian side who could translate for people having discussions of medical issues. That's absolutely essential."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the flight surgeons that have been part of Shuttle-Mir first became employed with you, I'm sure that at the time they had no idea they would be going to Russia to work with this program, and I know that, as you mentioned, many of them volunteered to do that. Is that something now that the ones that are coming into your area are expecting to do, that this is a norm now that they will be working with international partners?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.182552596090002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attempted to, but not in all cases were we successful in doing that. It just takes too much time. The job was just too massive, and I think it would really be difficult for us to do that so that our Japanese, Italian, Dutch, French, you name it. Fortunately, for many people, particularly in Western Europe, they speak English really well, and it's not much of a problem. As a matter of fact, many of the Japanese do as well, and certainly the Canadians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might be interesting to have the translators be skilled in medical knowledge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are. We were very careful on occasion to employ people who were skilled both in the language as well as the discipline, physicians, for example, and other allied health personnel who were also gifted in translating were used and are used today. We did that early on. We've done that for years. We've had a group of people both on our side and on the Russian side who could translate for people having discussions of medical issues. That's absolutely essential."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the flight surgeons that have been part of Shuttle-Mir first became employed with you, I'm sure that at the time they had no idea they would be going to Russia to work with this program, and I know that, as you mentioned, many of them volunteered to do that. Is that something now that the ones that are coming into your area are expecting to do, that this is a norm now that they will be working with international partners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that changing maybe in your criteria where they'll have people that are skilled in languages, or at least skilled in desire that they want to do this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.4250584401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are. We were very careful on occasion to employ people who were skilled both in the language as well as the discipline, physicians, for example, and other allied health personnel who were also gifted in translating were used and are used today. We did that early on. We've done that for years. We've had a group of people both on our side and on the Russian side who could translate for people having discussions of medical issues. That's absolutely essential."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the flight surgeons that have been part of Shuttle-Mir first became employed with you, I'm sure that at the time they had no idea they would be going to Russia to work with this program, and I know that, as you mentioned, many of them volunteered to do that. Is that something now that the ones that are coming into your area are expecting to do, that this is a norm now that they will be working with international partners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that changing maybe in your criteria where they'll have people that are skilled in languages, or at least skilled in desire that they want to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps that will eventually take place, but now I think it's necessary to give them language skills sufficient to do their job. It's been amazing to watch how well they do. They've done really well, sometimes on fairly short notice. Even the scientists with whom we work, some of whom are self-educated in the other language, maybe two or three trips to Russia, and the next thing you know, they're off arranging MRIs and going around in the community and getting things done, with the language skills they have, without a translator. I've watched that change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're watched your personnel evolve into the situation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.805620489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that changing maybe in your criteria where they'll have people that are skilled in languages, or at least skilled in desire that they want to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps that will eventually take place, but now I think it's necessary to give them language skills sufficient to do their job. It's been amazing to watch how well they do. They've done really well, sometimes on fairly short notice. Even the scientists with whom we work, some of whom are self-educated in the other language, maybe two or three trips to Russia, and the next thing you know, they're off arranging MRIs and going around in the community and getting things done, with the language skills they have, without a translator. I've watched that change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're watched your personnel evolve into the situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of us are still limited to a few phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe because you haven't been out there for such a--they were there for several months at a time, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.22846721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps that will eventually take place, but now I think it's necessary to give them language skills sufficient to do their job. It's been amazing to watch how well they do. They've done really well, sometimes on fairly short notice. Even the scientists with whom we work, some of whom are self-educated in the other language, maybe two or three trips to Russia, and the next thing you know, they're off arranging MRIs and going around in the community and getting things done, with the language skills they have, without a translator. I've watched that change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're watched your personnel evolve into the situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of us are still limited to a few phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe because you haven't been out there for such a--they were there for several months at a time, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not all of them. Some of them were just there for a few weeks at a time. But they made a big effort to learn the language, which is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can ask you the same question, because when you first started your job with NASA, did you expect to be working with the Russians in your field?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.698296899999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of us are still limited to a few phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe because you haven't been out there for such a--they were there for several months at a time, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not all of them. Some of them were just there for a few weeks at a time. But they made a big effort to learn the language, which is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can ask you the same question, because when you first started your job with NASA, did you expect to be working with the Russians in your field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, although then fairly soon after I joined the agency, we flew Apollo-Soyuz and we worked with the Russians at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you involved with that project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00802:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 16.331440999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not all of them. Some of them were just there for a few weeks at a time. But they made a big effort to learn the language, which is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can ask you the same question, because when you first started your job with NASA, did you expect to be working with the Russians in your field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, although then fairly soon after I joined the agency, we flew Apollo-Soyuz and we worked with the Russians at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you involved with that project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then as the astronaut corps or its crew, your responsibilities, that was just one part of it. I know Shuttle-Mir was just a part of it. Can you give us an idea of what else that you do, or what other programs that you worked with other than Shuttle-Mir?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.405212484131464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Martha Herrin Jachowski, [address] Bozeman, Montana [zip code]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Martha. To start the interview, would you just tell us kind of your current situation? Who your present family is and work, if any? Your current, well, we have your current residence, but your current interests."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we moved to Montana five years ago and my husband had a new job opportunity and we did that and he retired about two weeks ago, so we're enjoying it out there. My son lives nearby in the summertime working on a graduate project, and we're really looking forward to our retirement. I'm not involved in anything to speak of at the moment. I've done a lot of volunteering up to our move in Montana. So I'm just sort of gardening and enjoying my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like you now to think back to a long way back into the 60s and tell me what you were doing the year before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before. I'm finishing up my undergraduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your degree in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.450236093479404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we moved to Montana five years ago and my husband had a new job opportunity and we did that and he retired about two weeks ago, so we're enjoying it out there. My son lives nearby in the summertime working on a graduate project, and we're really looking forward to our retirement. I'm not involved in anything to speak of at the moment. I've done a lot of volunteering up to our move in Montana. So I'm just sort of gardening and enjoying my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like you now to think back to a long way back into the 60s and tell me what you were doing the year before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before. I'm finishing up my undergraduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sociology. OK, how did you learn about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.389151214977115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before. I'm finishing up my undergraduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sociology. OK, how did you learn about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was my sophomore year when Kennedy announced the program and I was really excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why why did you get excited?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.43239023886346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sociology. OK, how did you learn about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was my sophomore year when Kennedy announced the program and I was really excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why why did you get excited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was my interest to go overseas in some capacity. And that program was perfectly timed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there something in your childhood that or family that made you have an interest in wanting to go overseas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.369322487626066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was my sophomore year when Kennedy announced the program and I was really excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why why did you get excited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was my interest to go overseas in some capacity. And that program was perfectly timed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there something in your childhood that or family that made you have an interest in wanting to go overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always had that desire. I just I think early on in college, we even looked into missionary possibilities. And my my mother took me to the Butler University. I remember. And they have a good religion program there. I was active in my church and they told me I have to graduate from college first. So during that time I was in college, the Peace Corps opened and that was perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you remember exactly how you heard about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.410358319584518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was my interest to go overseas in some capacity. And that program was perfectly timed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there something in your childhood that or family that made you have an interest in wanting to go overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always had that desire. I just I think early on in college, we even looked into missionary possibilities. And my my mother took me to the Butler University. I remember. And they have a good religion program there. I was active in my church and they told me I have to graduate from college first. So during that time I was in college, the Peace Corps opened and that was perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you remember exactly how you heard about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the student union and the television was on and they must have been announcing it or something. And it wasn't shortly after that that they started advertising it on campus. So it just was, you know, quite so easy to apply and get the forms and it's perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, let's see. Did you have did you have any place in mind that you wanted to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.567064799538352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always had that desire. I just I think early on in college, we even looked into missionary possibilities. And my my mother took me to the Butler University. I remember. And they have a good religion program there. I was active in my church and they told me I have to graduate from college first. So during that time I was in college, the Peace Corps opened and that was perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you remember exactly how you heard about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the student union and the television was on and they must have been announcing it or something. And it wasn't shortly after that that they started advertising it on campus. So it just was, you know, quite so easy to apply and get the forms and it's perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, let's see. Did you have did you have any place in mind that you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they respond to you? What did you do to apply to the Peace Corps? And what did you get to tell you that you were selected?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.852294221709279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the student union and the television was on and they must have been announcing it or something. And it wasn't shortly after that that they started advertising it on campus. So it just was, you know, quite so easy to apply and get the forms and it's perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, let's see. Did you have did you have any place in mind that you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they respond to you? What did you do to apply to the Peace Corps? And what did you get to tell you that you were selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a meeting and I forgot what they call them on campus now. Must be career orientation. And they have different groups come. And the Peace Corps was one of them. I went and listened and got the forms and filled it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take before you heard anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.835882468565865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they respond to you? What did you do to apply to the Peace Corps? And what did you get to tell you that you were selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a meeting and I forgot what they call them on campus now. Must be career orientation. And they have different groups come. And the Peace Corps was one of them. I went and listened and got the forms and filled it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take before you heard anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably did that in my senior year and. You know, I don't remember there being any anxiousness about it, so it must have been the midway in the year. It wasn't like at the end of the year. And everybody's trying to find out what their career is going to be. But I'd say it was mid-year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you selected for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.706536076184294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a meeting and I forgot what they call them on campus now. Must be career orientation. And they have different groups come. And the Peace Corps was one of them. I went and listened and got the forms and filled it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take before you heard anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably did that in my senior year and. You know, I don't remember there being any anxiousness about it, so it must have been the midway in the year. It wasn't like at the end of the year. And everybody's trying to find out what their career is going to be. But I'd say it was mid-year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you selected for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belize. British Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about when you saw that? Oh, I might not like to go there. I'd like to go somewhere else or any."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.673928973538104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably did that in my senior year and. You know, I don't remember there being any anxiousness about it, so it must have been the midway in the year. It wasn't like at the end of the year. And everybody's trying to find out what their career is going to be. But I'd say it was mid-year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you selected for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belize. British Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about when you saw that? Oh, I might not like to go there. I'd like to go somewhere else or any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none. I was just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what country, what language did they speak in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.415476637264558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belize. British Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about when you saw that? Oh, I might not like to go there. I'd like to go somewhere else or any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none. I was just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what country, what language did they speak in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a British protectorate then and they spoke English. So we were taught Spanish. And I had many years with that in high school and college. And so I was able to get get along OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends or family's reactions to to the news when or the idea that you were going to join the Peace Corps or the idea that they've invited me?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.239418485849509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none. I was just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what country, what language did they speak in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a British protectorate then and they spoke English. So we were taught Spanish. And I had many years with that in high school and college. And so I was able to get get along OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends or family's reactions to to the news when or the idea that you were going to join the Peace Corps or the idea that they've invited me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were excited and maybe a little apprehensive, but not till I got back did I know about my father's apprehension. He was very concerned, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know what his concerns were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.043798317610566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a British protectorate then and they spoke English. So we were taught Spanish. And I had many years with that in high school and college. And so I was able to get get along OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends or family's reactions to to the news when or the idea that you were going to join the Peace Corps or the idea that they've invited me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were excited and maybe a little apprehensive, but not till I got back did I know about my father's apprehension. He was very concerned, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know what his concerns were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, just for my safety. And they received a letter from the Peace Corps director, Dick Ware, when I was there and they so much appreciated that letter, it was just confirming that he knew me, you know, use my name and what my job was and how glad they were. And I think that was a good thing for my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project that you were invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.826442575122852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were excited and maybe a little apprehensive, but not till I got back did I know about my father's apprehension. He was very concerned, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know what his concerns were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, just for my safety. And they received a letter from the Peace Corps director, Dick Ware, when I was there and they so much appreciated that letter, it was just confirming that he knew me, you know, use my name and what my job was and how glad they were. And I think that was a good thing for my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project that you were invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained at the University of Maryland for community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can you tell me something about that training? What it consisted of, what it had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1404917501365017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, just for my safety. And they received a letter from the Peace Corps director, Dick Ware, when I was there and they so much appreciated that letter, it was just confirming that he knew me, you know, use my name and what my job was and how glad they were. And I think that was a good thing for my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project that you were invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained at the University of Maryland for community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can you tell me something about that training? What it consisted of, what it had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was it was a two month training program. The last. It also included the Outward Bound program, which was, I think, three weeks in Puerto Rico, the campus was the University of Maryland and they had a cultural history and. Some agriculture, we've got a smattering of everything, even though we were going to be doing it, but it was a good program, physical fitness program, they're going up and down the stairs at the outdoor football field, very strenuous physical fitness program in the Maryland summers, hot humid summers. So the Puerto Rico thing was a great thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the Outward Bound. I've never heard of that. What was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4894352779294464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained at the University of Maryland for community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can you tell me something about that training? What it consisted of, what it had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was it was a two month training program. The last. It also included the Outward Bound program, which was, I think, three weeks in Puerto Rico, the campus was the University of Maryland and they had a cultural history and. Some agriculture, we've got a smattering of everything, even though we were going to be doing it, but it was a good program, physical fitness program, they're going up and down the stairs at the outdoor football field, very strenuous physical fitness program in the Maryland summers, hot humid summers. So the Puerto Rico thing was a great thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the Outward Bound. I've never heard of that. What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know how long they continued it, but it was our instructor was with, I think he's been with the army, so he was very, he had a set plan about what he was going to do with this, but it included drown proofing, using topographic maps to find your way around in the tropics down there. They take you out and set you somewhere and you'd have to find your way back to camp. And they had rock rappelling off of the dam there. Things that you'd have to test your ability and idea of the group spurring you on sort of thing. So it was good. We did a lot of bonding in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the other trainees in the group, maybe when you first met them, when you got to know them? Did you have any particular thoughts or reactions that you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.877150308810496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was it was a two month training program. The last. It also included the Outward Bound program, which was, I think, three weeks in Puerto Rico, the campus was the University of Maryland and they had a cultural history and. Some agriculture, we've got a smattering of everything, even though we were going to be doing it, but it was a good program, physical fitness program, they're going up and down the stairs at the outdoor football field, very strenuous physical fitness program in the Maryland summers, hot humid summers. So the Puerto Rico thing was a great thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the Outward Bound. I've never heard of that. What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know how long they continued it, but it was our instructor was with, I think he's been with the army, so he was very, he had a set plan about what he was going to do with this, but it included drown proofing, using topographic maps to find your way around in the tropics down there. They take you out and set you somewhere and you'd have to find your way back to camp. And they had rock rappelling off of the dam there. Things that you'd have to test your ability and idea of the group spurring you on sort of thing. So it was good. We did a lot of bonding in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the other trainees in the group, maybe when you first met them, when you got to know them? Did you have any particular thoughts or reactions that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember certain incidences. You know the, wherever you might have met your first one, you know, oh, you're a Peace Corps volunteer sort of thing, but in the dormitory accommodations we had, you know, you meet each other pretty quickly and it's great. I mean, everybody said it just comes together and you're all there for the same idea. Back then, it seemed like people were more going. There were a few that might have been there for other reasons, but it's bonding right from the start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the selection or deselection process like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.307944787567218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know how long they continued it, but it was our instructor was with, I think he's been with the army, so he was very, he had a set plan about what he was going to do with this, but it included drown proofing, using topographic maps to find your way around in the tropics down there. They take you out and set you somewhere and you'd have to find your way back to camp. And they had rock rappelling off of the dam there. Things that you'd have to test your ability and idea of the group spurring you on sort of thing. So it was good. We did a lot of bonding in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the other trainees in the group, maybe when you first met them, when you got to know them? Did you have any particular thoughts or reactions that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember certain incidences. You know the, wherever you might have met your first one, you know, oh, you're a Peace Corps volunteer sort of thing, but in the dormitory accommodations we had, you know, you meet each other pretty quickly and it's great. I mean, everybody said it just comes together and you're all there for the same idea. Back then, it seemed like people were more going. There were a few that might have been there for other reasons, but it's bonding right from the start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the selection or deselection process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three periods of interviews with the psychologist and also evaluations from your staff that were teaching new classes are being with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many did you start out with and how many were deselected? Do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.67549420840802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember certain incidences. You know the, wherever you might have met your first one, you know, oh, you're a Peace Corps volunteer sort of thing, but in the dormitory accommodations we had, you know, you meet each other pretty quickly and it's great. I mean, everybody said it just comes together and you're all there for the same idea. Back then, it seemed like people were more going. There were a few that might have been there for other reasons, but it's bonding right from the start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the selection or deselection process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three periods of interviews with the psychologist and also evaluations from your staff that were teaching new classes are being with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many did you start out with and how many were deselected? Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we ended up, I think, 24, and that was about a 50 percent drop, so we must have been 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there disappointments, surprises or anything in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.083882453786689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three periods of interviews with the psychologist and also evaluations from your staff that were teaching new classes are being with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many did you start out with and how many were deselected? Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we ended up, I think, 24, and that was about a 50 percent drop, so we must have been 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there disappointments, surprises or anything in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, right, that's a. Oh, my gosh, it's been you know, how can that be? But back then, they did it so that you didn't have time to find out why the people were gone and there were no explanations. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must've been hard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.537647170874099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we ended up, I think, 24, and that was about a 50 percent drop, so we must have been 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there disappointments, surprises or anything in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, right, that's a. Oh, my gosh, it's been you know, how can that be? But back then, they did it so that you didn't have time to find out why the people were gone and there were no explanations. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must've been hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training prepared you for the service that you were going to be giving in the country you were going to? Once you got there, did you feel like it had been a waste of time? That there was anything that was really helpful? Was it useful to your service? And kind of in hindsight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.041830189860109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, right, that's a. Oh, my gosh, it's been you know, how can that be? But back then, they did it so that you didn't have time to find out why the people were gone and there were no explanations. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must've been hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training prepared you for the service that you were going to be giving in the country you were going to? Once you got there, did you feel like it had been a waste of time? That there was anything that was really helpful? Was it useful to your service? And kind of in hindsight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the training was helpful, maybe the programing was not right, at least for the community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.490922433177899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training prepared you for the service that you were going to be giving in the country you were going to? Once you got there, did you feel like it had been a waste of time? That there was anything that was really helpful? Was it useful to your service? And kind of in hindsight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the training was helpful, maybe the programing was not right, at least for the community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they should not have program girls in this work without the right kind of facilities. They had asked us to be a traveling volunteer and had not given us any cars. Not that we need a car and not that we could even cover the amount of area they wanted us to cover, given the conditions of the roads and the traffic. You don't, you can't get out. And so that type of assignment they sent us to do, with strict instructions that that's what you had to do, was not good. But I think the girls that were in there were only two of us that ended up in CD managed to make an assignment out of it anyway in the town that they were stationed, even though they couldn't get out. Because you were required to travel with a coworker who was required to use government vehicles, which were only available at certain times. And so it was hard to start any kind of programing outside. So we both worked in the towns we were in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else on the Peace Corps preparing you, that they could have done better, that comes to mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.98991381464211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the training was helpful, maybe the programing was not right, at least for the community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they should not have program girls in this work without the right kind of facilities. They had asked us to be a traveling volunteer and had not given us any cars. Not that we need a car and not that we could even cover the amount of area they wanted us to cover, given the conditions of the roads and the traffic. You don't, you can't get out. And so that type of assignment they sent us to do, with strict instructions that that's what you had to do, was not good. But I think the girls that were in there were only two of us that ended up in CD managed to make an assignment out of it anyway in the town that they were stationed, even though they couldn't get out. Because you were required to travel with a coworker who was required to use government vehicles, which were only available at certain times. And so it was hard to start any kind of programing outside. So we both worked in the towns we were in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else on the Peace Corps preparing you, that they could have done better, that comes to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did a lot of role playing in Peace Corps and. And I'm not sure I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial entry and your reaction into British Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.337774446947279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, we, British Honduras has five districts and I was assigned to the Orange Walk District. And there was one lady there who was a home economics. The social development officer and her supervisors were in the capital city, um, her assignment and I was her coworker was to go to the village and villages in that district and help them in home economics. It was a broad area. It could be just how to conduct a meeting. It could be how to preserve jelly. It could be sewing. It could be. I like to work with the children so I can work with the schools and do art, or physical education. We had fairs where our projects that we would do in the villages would be brought and then they would display them and it was done to the Agriculture Department as well. So all the projects you worked on during the year, they would bring them and exhibit them and maybe prizes at. So that was pretty much my project and the like I said, there was no staff except for my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Peace Corps staff in the country? Did you interact with them much? Do you remember much about them? Or were you just sort of out in the field and that was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were I think I had one site visit by staff when I was there. So I didn't have much interaction with the Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health issues at all while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I fractured a broken bone in my lower back. I fell off a horse. And by the time they got the strap, they kind of like a girdle you put around you. It was so much later that there was no purpose in wearing it. So there was nothing to be done about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't suffered with something since?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7086382743858657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were I think I had one site visit by staff when I was there. So I didn't have much interaction with the Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health issues at all while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I fractured a broken bone in my lower back. I fell off a horse. And by the time they got the strap, they kind of like a girdle you put around you. It was so much later that there was no purpose in wearing it. So there was nothing to be done about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't suffered with something since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may, but it's, it might not be from there. You know, at my age, lower back is not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were riding a horse, is this a method of transportation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.120709193762073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I fractured a broken bone in my lower back. I fell off a horse. And by the time they got the strap, they kind of like a girdle you put around you. It was so much later that there was no purpose in wearing it. So there was nothing to be done about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't suffered with something since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may, but it's, it might not be from there. You know, at my age, lower back is not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were riding a horse, is this a method of transportation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh, my neighbor had a horse and I wanted to ride it and he didn't cinch it down tight. And so the saddle just fell off or twisted on to the belly. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who looked after you? Well, what happened when you were on the ground?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.467454659735637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may, but it's, it might not be from there. You know, at my age, lower back is not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were riding a horse, is this a method of transportation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh, my neighbor had a horse and I wanted to ride it and he didn't cinch it down tight. And so the saddle just fell off or twisted on to the belly. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who looked after you? Well, what happened when you were on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I managed to get to the family that I stayed when I first got there and she took care of me and it was painful the first few weeks, but it subsided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the family you stayed with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.741616288595152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh, my neighbor had a horse and I wanted to ride it and he didn't cinch it down tight. And so the saddle just fell off or twisted on to the belly. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who looked after you? Well, what happened when you were on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I managed to get to the family that I stayed when I first got there and she took care of me and it was painful the first few weeks, but it subsided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the family you stayed with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gonzalez was their name and they were a great family. They it was an extended family and they had a room for the girls where I was. And I shared that room. I think the five I was in there and then the guys on the other side and we ate there and other volunteers came and ate because Mrs. Gonzalez was a good cook and she had cooked for volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9351292095501689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I managed to get to the family that I stayed when I first got there and she took care of me and it was painful the first few weeks, but it subsided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the family you stayed with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gonzalez was their name and they were a great family. They it was an extended family and they had a room for the girls where I was. And I shared that room. I think the five I was in there and then the guys on the other side and we ate there and other volunteers came and ate because Mrs. Gonzalez was a good cook and she had cooked for volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So I stayed there probably six months. And then I had another little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.150143566166854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gonzalez was their name and they were a great family. They it was an extended family and they had a room for the girls where I was. And I shared that room. I think the five I was in there and then the guys on the other side and we ate there and other volunteers came and ate because Mrs. Gonzalez was a good cook and she had cooked for volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So I stayed there probably six months. And then I had another little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that same area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3890484068520603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So I stayed there probably six months. And then I had another little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that same area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and it wasn't far. Six blocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everyone do that? Stay with the family in the first six months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6544982298356223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that same area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and it wasn't far. Six blocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everyone do that? Stay with the family in the first six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many girls were in your program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.949442477595136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and it wasn't far. Six blocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everyone do that? Stay with the family in the first six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many girls were in your program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I couldn't say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it half half?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2771583084390397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many girls were in your program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I couldn't say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it half half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I’d say around half half. But thinking back, I can't think of any girl that lived on her own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you lived on your own when you had the little house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6412870093767107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I couldn't say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it half half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I’d say around half half. But thinking back, I can't think of any girl that lived on her own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you lived on your own when you had the little house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Yeah, OK, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what were your neighbors like? Were their neighbors? Or were you isolated with a village, community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.045874454863012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I’d say around half half. But thinking back, I can't think of any girl that lived on her own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you lived on your own when you had the little house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Yeah, OK, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what were your neighbors like? Were their neighbors? Or were you isolated with a village, community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were neighbors with her across the street. There wasn't any valley on either side. It was like a power plant next to me. But it was his rustic I had an outhouse and I had a little two room house on stilts and it was brand new. So I liked it, my own little place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say your biggest challenges were when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.994906734398779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were neighbors with her across the street. There wasn't any valley on either side. It was like a power plant next to me. But it was his rustic I had an outhouse and I had a little two room house on stilts and it was brand new. So I liked it, my own little place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say your biggest challenges were when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Patience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the assignment was so difficult to carry out as it was outlined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.327674149331977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Patience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the assignment was so difficult to carry out as it was outlined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just it was a rural assignment, like a traveling salesman sort of assignment where you're supposed to go out to villages in this large district and work there for maybe a couple of days and come back. And the transportation just wasn't there. But yet they wouldn't allow you to do any other work. So you found yourself in the in the office, just sitting there day in and day out. And so we did I started some Girl Scout Girl Scout troop and a girls softball team in the town I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what town were you in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.586304610368863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the assignment was so difficult to carry out as it was outlined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just it was a rural assignment, like a traveling salesman sort of assignment where you're supposed to go out to villages in this large district and work there for maybe a couple of days and come back. And the transportation just wasn't there. But yet they wouldn't allow you to do any other work. So you found yourself in the in the office, just sitting there day in and day out. And so we did I started some Girl Scout Girl Scout troop and a girls softball team in the town I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what town were you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orange Walk Town. Yeah. And so when we got out, we did and when we didn't, I tried to keep busy there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so the patience came in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.873671789298737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just it was a rural assignment, like a traveling salesman sort of assignment where you're supposed to go out to villages in this large district and work there for maybe a couple of days and come back. And the transportation just wasn't there. But yet they wouldn't allow you to do any other work. So you found yourself in the in the office, just sitting there day in and day out. And so we did I started some Girl Scout Girl Scout troop and a girls softball team in the town I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what town were you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orange Walk Town. Yeah. And so when we got out, we did and when we didn't, I tried to keep busy there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so the patience came in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you were so energetic to do something and to. But that wasn't why you were there, I mean, you were there to. Hopefully get out into the villages and just never wasn't the means to do it, so they made that assignment the same people to villages or maybe nearby villages. That would have been better. But to have you work from the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or given you transportation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1929686547763745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orange Walk Town. Yeah. And so when we got out, we did and when we didn't, I tried to keep busy there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so the patience came in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you were so energetic to do something and to. But that wasn't why you were there, I mean, you were there to. Hopefully get out into the villages and just never wasn't the means to do it, so they made that assignment the same people to villages or maybe nearby villages. That would have been better. But to have you work from the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or given you transportation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your impression of the people of the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.547742949751527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you were so energetic to do something and to. But that wasn't why you were there, I mean, you were there to. Hopefully get out into the villages and just never wasn't the means to do it, so they made that assignment the same people to villages or maybe nearby villages. That would have been better. But to have you work from the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or given you transportation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your impression of the people of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Give specifics."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.94193661083503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your impression of the people of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Give specifics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're unassuming, I mean, face forward. They’re easy. Easy to talk with, easy to be with, interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did most of them speak English, understand it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.379929567594478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Give specifics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're unassuming, I mean, face forward. They’re easy. Easy to talk with, easy to be with, interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did most of them speak English, understand it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Maybe the older people, but there's been enough. The British had been there long enough that the generation ahead of me, you know, and the schools were so. When you went out in the village, you’d like to try to speak Spanish, but you think you're not forced to be fall back. So. No, the people were very warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They appreciated you, what you're doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.866588408438308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're unassuming, I mean, face forward. They’re easy. Easy to talk with, easy to be with, interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did most of them speak English, understand it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Maybe the older people, but there's been enough. The British had been there long enough that the generation ahead of me, you know, and the schools were so. When you went out in the village, you’d like to try to speak Spanish, but you think you're not forced to be fall back. So. No, the people were very warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They appreciated you, what you're doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, was there any political strife at the time you were there or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4073204538203425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Maybe the older people, but there's been enough. The British had been there long enough that the generation ahead of me, you know, and the schools were so. When you went out in the village, you’d like to try to speak Spanish, but you think you're not forced to be fall back. So. No, the people were very warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They appreciated you, what you're doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, was there any political strife at the time you were there or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always a party of friction between the two parties, but, uh, and they're not, you know, the volunteers were told not to march in any parades or anything like that, but, uh. No violence or anything like that, just they had a two party system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now you said that your living conditions changed over that over time because you went from a family to yourself. Was there any other your work still stayed the same and. OK, and did you see any other PCV groups coming in while you were there, or were you of the only group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.008133837578158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, was there any political strife at the time you were there or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always a party of friction between the two parties, but, uh, and they're not, you know, the volunteers were told not to march in any parades or anything like that, but, uh. No violence or anything like that, just they had a two party system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now you said that your living conditions changed over that over time because you went from a family to yourself. Was there any other your work still stayed the same and. OK, and did you see any other PCV groups coming in while you were there, or were you of the only group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were British Honduras II and III came in while we were there. Small, wasn't a large group. I think they were sort of just a backup for the group that we had such a high attrition rate that they trained another group to come fill in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have high attrition?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.675704263975731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always a party of friction between the two parties, but, uh, and they're not, you know, the volunteers were told not to march in any parades or anything like that, but, uh. No violence or anything like that, just they had a two party system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now you said that your living conditions changed over that over time because you went from a family to yourself. Was there any other your work still stayed the same and. OK, and did you see any other PCV groups coming in while you were there, or were you of the only group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were British Honduras II and III came in while we were there. Small, wasn't a large group. I think they were sort of just a backup for the group that we had such a high attrition rate that they trained another group to come fill in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have high attrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Maybe we were a mixed up lot! But I know I have no idea that, you know, I often wonder, you know, people that seemed better qualified than I work. And so, yeah, I am the I always felt a little strange about the deselection process, so. But you had no way of knowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you had some leisure time? What happened in your leisure time downtime besides sitting in the office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.417449182195256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were British Honduras II and III came in while we were there. Small, wasn't a large group. I think they were sort of just a backup for the group that we had such a high attrition rate that they trained another group to come fill in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have high attrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Maybe we were a mixed up lot! But I know I have no idea that, you know, I often wonder, you know, people that seemed better qualified than I work. And so, yeah, I am the I always felt a little strange about the deselection process, so. But you had no way of knowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you had some leisure time? What happened in your leisure time downtime besides sitting in the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see there when we were in in the town, not vacation time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's part of your leisure time. What about when you were working and then you had your weekends off or, you know, whatever. What do you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.241610202439173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Maybe we were a mixed up lot! But I know I have no idea that, you know, I often wonder, you know, people that seemed better qualified than I work. And so, yeah, I am the I always felt a little strange about the deselection process, so. But you had no way of knowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you had some leisure time? What happened in your leisure time downtime besides sitting in the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see there when we were in in the town, not vacation time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's part of your leisure time. What about when you were working and then you had your weekends off or, you know, whatever. What do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would travel to other towns and visit other volunteers and see what they are doing. You know, just connect with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you take vacations while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9351224471546375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see there when we were in in the town, not vacation time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's part of your leisure time. What about when you were working and then you had your weekends off or, you know, whatever. What do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would travel to other towns and visit other volunteers and see what they are doing. You know, just connect with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you take vacations while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent most of our vacation time in Central America and Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how did you get there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.705691607949597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would travel to other towns and visit other volunteers and see what they are doing. You know, just connect with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you take vacations while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent most of our vacation time in Central America and Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how did you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Just get on the bus and get off the bus. You get on the bust and get off the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you could be called the end of your first year or let's just do it at the and the two years, you know, looking back on it, were there joys? Were there any particular things that were joyful or a disappointment, unexpected events, relationships?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.339657342166219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent most of our vacation time in Central America and Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how did you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Just get on the bus and get off the bus. You get on the bust and get off the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you could be called the end of your first year or let's just do it at the and the two years, you know, looking back on it, were there joys? Were there any particular things that were joyful or a disappointment, unexpected events, relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joyful, be joyful. I can't think of anything that was a great. It was really spectacular in terms of the whole two years. It was such a learning process and, you know, I think we had some successes in terms of successes. I think probably what I did in Orange Walk City and I'm not sure whether it was a first Girl Scout troop or the first girl softball team, whether they're still going or not. But I would say those of things I thought were successful and gave me a lot of joy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of a lack of achievement or a sense of pluses and minuses in the relationship and work with the people of the country grads or satisfactions I kind of thing at the end of that second year when you stay just two years, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9329526024069095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Just get on the bus and get off the bus. You get on the bust and get off the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you could be called the end of your first year or let's just do it at the and the two years, you know, looking back on it, were there joys? Were there any particular things that were joyful or a disappointment, unexpected events, relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joyful, be joyful. I can't think of anything that was a great. It was really spectacular in terms of the whole two years. It was such a learning process and, you know, I think we had some successes in terms of successes. I think probably what I did in Orange Walk City and I'm not sure whether it was a first Girl Scout troop or the first girl softball team, whether they're still going or not. But I would say those of things I thought were successful and gave me a lot of joy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of a lack of achievement or a sense of pluses and minuses in the relationship and work with the people of the country grads or satisfactions I kind of thing at the end of that second year when you stay just two years, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, sure. I think that's the satisfying part, was having people be enthusiastic about the two things I just mentioned, the Scouts and the softball. People helping with that, wanting to work with that and taking it on when I left. And there were some fellows in the Agriculture Department, maybe they liked the girls softball team, I think. But they were really vital in getting us, you know, getting us out to do our trips and practicing with the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that became part of your project. Not a leisure time activity, but it became part of the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.592169558229899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joyful, be joyful. I can't think of anything that was a great. It was really spectacular in terms of the whole two years. It was such a learning process and, you know, I think we had some successes in terms of successes. I think probably what I did in Orange Walk City and I'm not sure whether it was a first Girl Scout troop or the first girl softball team, whether they're still going or not. But I would say those of things I thought were successful and gave me a lot of joy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of a lack of achievement or a sense of pluses and minuses in the relationship and work with the people of the country grads or satisfactions I kind of thing at the end of that second year when you stay just two years, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, sure. I think that's the satisfying part, was having people be enthusiastic about the two things I just mentioned, the Scouts and the softball. People helping with that, wanting to work with that and taking it on when I left. And there were some fellows in the Agriculture Department, maybe they liked the girls softball team, I think. But they were really vital in getting us, you know, getting us out to do our trips and practicing with the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that became part of your project. Not a leisure time activity, but it became part of the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the other was, how was the satisfaction with the Home Ec part of it, or setting meetings, helping people in the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.324632842477666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, sure. I think that's the satisfying part, was having people be enthusiastic about the two things I just mentioned, the Scouts and the softball. People helping with that, wanting to work with that and taking it on when I left. And there were some fellows in the Agriculture Department, maybe they liked the girls softball team, I think. But they were really vital in getting us, you know, getting us out to do our trips and practicing with the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that became part of your project. Not a leisure time activity, but it became part of the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the other was, how was the satisfaction with the Home Ec part of it, or setting meetings, helping people in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was short lived. I mean, there was it was hard to have any continuity. You go and there used to be a lady in a village who would, you know, hold a meeting at her house and she'd be your contact. But in terms of that continuing after you left, you never felt like it was always if you got back to that village, you know, what have you done since we left? There just wasn't enough follow through and a building of any kind of a relationship to make that seem like it was going to be OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any other thoughts on your time there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.027369824975184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the other was, how was the satisfaction with the Home Ec part of it, or setting meetings, helping people in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was short lived. I mean, there was it was hard to have any continuity. You go and there used to be a lady in a village who would, you know, hold a meeting at her house and she'd be your contact. But in terms of that continuing after you left, you never felt like it was always if you got back to that village, you know, what have you done since we left? There just wasn't enough follow through and a building of any kind of a relationship to make that seem like it was going to be OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any other thoughts on your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, of course, we have a son who's a volunteer who we talked about our service. Um, through the years as he was growing up. And I guess my thoughts are just how great of a widening of my own personality and how important I think that is to developing a good, broad outlook on life. So I'm grateful for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, did you have any reentry? Some people say it was very hard to leave. Can you tell us something about your reentry and feelings you experienced?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.58596647219465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was short lived. I mean, there was it was hard to have any continuity. You go and there used to be a lady in a village who would, you know, hold a meeting at her house and she'd be your contact. But in terms of that continuing after you left, you never felt like it was always if you got back to that village, you know, what have you done since we left? There just wasn't enough follow through and a building of any kind of a relationship to make that seem like it was going to be OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any other thoughts on your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, of course, we have a son who's a volunteer who we talked about our service. Um, through the years as he was growing up. And I guess my thoughts are just how great of a widening of my own personality and how important I think that is to developing a good, broad outlook on life. So I'm grateful for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, did you have any reentry? Some people say it was very hard to leave. Can you tell us something about your reentry and feelings you experienced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was busy. You come home and everyone wants to see you and everyone wants to hear about it, and I did a little interview with my local newspaper and I was breathless very soon. And I got a little cable from the Peace Corps who asked me to train help train in Micronesia training program. And I think that couldn't have been more, right after I got home. It might have been two weeks. And so I accepted that I was really glad because I was I was in my reentry, as you said, and so that I didn't really have much time to. To dwell on that, it was I enjoyed the initial training that helped me get my feet on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any specifics that you can think of that hit you in the face?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.206629413549611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, of course, we have a son who's a volunteer who we talked about our service. Um, through the years as he was growing up. And I guess my thoughts are just how great of a widening of my own personality and how important I think that is to developing a good, broad outlook on life. So I'm grateful for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, did you have any reentry? Some people say it was very hard to leave. Can you tell us something about your reentry and feelings you experienced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was busy. You come home and everyone wants to see you and everyone wants to hear about it, and I did a little interview with my local newspaper and I was breathless very soon. And I got a little cable from the Peace Corps who asked me to train help train in Micronesia training program. And I think that couldn't have been more, right after I got home. It might have been two weeks. And so I accepted that I was really glad because I was I was in my reentry, as you said, and so that I didn't really have much time to. To dwell on that, it was I enjoyed the initial training that helped me get my feet on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any specifics that you can think of that hit you in the face?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to remember exactly getting off the plane, getting home. I have lost that. I don’t have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Yeah, yes. Um, there were three goals of Peace Corps, and one was to provide technical assistance overseas and do our job there and help them learn about Americans to help promote better understanding from Americans. That was a second goal. And then the third goal, to help promote better understanding by people in this country about peoples of the world. And have you participated in that end of it at all? The doing things here to help us better understand Belizeans, British Hondurans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.785143792832901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was busy. You come home and everyone wants to see you and everyone wants to hear about it, and I did a little interview with my local newspaper and I was breathless very soon. And I got a little cable from the Peace Corps who asked me to train help train in Micronesia training program. And I think that couldn't have been more, right after I got home. It might have been two weeks. And so I accepted that I was really glad because I was I was in my reentry, as you said, and so that I didn't really have much time to. To dwell on that, it was I enjoyed the initial training that helped me get my feet on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any specifics that you can think of that hit you in the face?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to remember exactly getting off the plane, getting home. I have lost that. I don’t have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Yeah, yes. Um, there were three goals of Peace Corps, and one was to provide technical assistance overseas and do our job there and help them learn about Americans to help promote better understanding from Americans. That was a second goal. And then the third goal, to help promote better understanding by people in this country about peoples of the world. And have you participated in that end of it at all? The doing things here to help us better understand Belizeans, British Hondurans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Kind of not not specifically, but I mean, I worked with Peace Corps for 10 years after I had told you I've been with Peace Corps for 10 years after. I cannot say that I came back and gave lectures about Belize. I did give one. Or helped in that manner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, you said you've had you've obviously had many years with Peace Corps and training programs and then you worked on staff and the head office, personnel. Have you continued in any way with your group or are there any Hondurans? Do you have communication with any of them? Did you maintain a contact for a length of time or any time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.316826436481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to remember exactly getting off the plane, getting home. I have lost that. I don’t have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Yeah, yes. Um, there were three goals of Peace Corps, and one was to provide technical assistance overseas and do our job there and help them learn about Americans to help promote better understanding from Americans. That was a second goal. And then the third goal, to help promote better understanding by people in this country about peoples of the world. And have you participated in that end of it at all? The doing things here to help us better understand Belizeans, British Hondurans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Kind of not not specifically, but I mean, I worked with Peace Corps for 10 years after I had told you I've been with Peace Corps for 10 years after. I cannot say that I came back and gave lectures about Belize. I did give one. Or helped in that manner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, you said you've had you've obviously had many years with Peace Corps and training programs and then you worked on staff and the head office, personnel. Have you continued in any way with your group or are there any Hondurans? Do you have communication with any of them? Did you maintain a contact for a length of time or any time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for a while after Peace Corps kept touch with my coworker. We had volunteers who married Belizeans, with those Belizeans and I kept in touch. But now it's just a Christmas card, so. And in the beginning, yes, but now mostly no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, just give us a brief summary of your time from the time you left. You said that you went to spend time, you came back, you went to work in training. And then if you just summarize that time from there to now, what your life has held."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5742515960900008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Kind of not not specifically, but I mean, I worked with Peace Corps for 10 years after I had told you I've been with Peace Corps for 10 years after. I cannot say that I came back and gave lectures about Belize. I did give one. Or helped in that manner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, you said you've had you've obviously had many years with Peace Corps and training programs and then you worked on staff and the head office, personnel. Have you continued in any way with your group or are there any Hondurans? Do you have communication with any of them? Did you maintain a contact for a length of time or any time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for a while after Peace Corps kept touch with my coworker. We had volunteers who married Belizeans, with those Belizeans and I kept in touch. But now it's just a Christmas card, so. And in the beginning, yes, but now mostly no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, just give us a brief summary of your time from the time you left. You said that you went to spend time, you came back, you went to work in training. And then if you just summarize that time from there to now, what your life has held."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just. Simple, simple, good. I came back and I worked 10 years with the Peace Corps, but going part of that 10 would be back in Kenya where with my husband, who was a volunteer, and then I had a child and I raised him for 18 years and now I'm on my own with my husband. He's retired and here we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The effect of the Peace Corps service on your life, well obviously have an effect on some of your jobs because you went back to work with future career plans. Did you have any particular career plans ever that the Peace Corps might have played a part in a long term that either came didn't come to or came to fruition or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7491684401000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for a while after Peace Corps kept touch with my coworker. We had volunteers who married Belizeans, with those Belizeans and I kept in touch. But now it's just a Christmas card, so. And in the beginning, yes, but now mostly no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, just give us a brief summary of your time from the time you left. You said that you went to spend time, you came back, you went to work in training. And then if you just summarize that time from there to now, what your life has held."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just. Simple, simple, good. I came back and I worked 10 years with the Peace Corps, but going part of that 10 would be back in Kenya where with my husband, who was a volunteer, and then I had a child and I raised him for 18 years and now I'm on my own with my husband. He's retired and here we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The effect of the Peace Corps service on your life, well obviously have an effect on some of your jobs because you went back to work with future career plans. Did you have any particular career plans ever that the Peace Corps might have played a part in a long term that either came didn't come to or came to fruition or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the, the social development assignment that I had probably strengthened my interest in the work that needs to be done. However, I didn't follow that path of really working on a man-to-man or person-to-person. I got more into the desk job in Washington and that's some way if I want to say in my professional life, that was not on that personal, which is what my original motivation would have been, to go out and help. So I think I helped in a different way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Helped people in this country you mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9435204890000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just. Simple, simple, good. I came back and I worked 10 years with the Peace Corps, but going part of that 10 would be back in Kenya where with my husband, who was a volunteer, and then I had a child and I raised him for 18 years and now I'm on my own with my husband. He's retired and here we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The effect of the Peace Corps service on your life, well obviously have an effect on some of your jobs because you went back to work with future career plans. Did you have any particular career plans ever that the Peace Corps might have played a part in a long term that either came didn't come to or came to fruition or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the, the social development assignment that I had probably strengthened my interest in the work that needs to be done. However, I didn't follow that path of really working on a man-to-man or person-to-person. I got more into the desk job in Washington and that's some way if I want to say in my professional life, that was not on that personal, which is what my original motivation would have been, to go out and help. So I think I helped in a different way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Helped people in this country you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I continued my interest in the organization, but I didn't do it on the personal level or on the grassroots level, Peace Corps grassroots level. I got behind a desk and that's where I stayed until I started raising my family, my son."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who went into Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1594672100000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the, the social development assignment that I had probably strengthened my interest in the work that needs to be done. However, I didn't follow that path of really working on a man-to-man or person-to-person. I got more into the desk job in Washington and that's some way if I want to say in my professional life, that was not on that personal, which is what my original motivation would have been, to go out and help. So I think I helped in a different way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Helped people in this country you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I continued my interest in the organization, but I didn't do it on the personal level or on the grassroots level, Peace Corps grassroots level. I got behind a desk and that's where I stayed until I started raising my family, my son."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who went into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us a little bit about that. Where did he go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2882969000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I continued my interest in the organization, but I didn't do it on the personal level or on the grassroots level, Peace Corps grassroots level. I got behind a desk and that's where I stayed until I started raising my family, my son."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who went into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us a little bit about that. Where did he go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to the Philippines, and I was so pleased to hear him say how that had been, in his short life so far, the highlight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have those same feelings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to the Philippines, and I was so pleased to hear him say how that had been, in his short life so far, the highlight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have those same feelings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still do. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Not that this isn’t a highlight right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, well, what do you think you can just one last thing. Do you recall any funny stories at all? Any funny experiences in Belize?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still do. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Not that this isn’t a highlight right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, well, what do you think you can just one last thing. Do you recall any funny stories at all? Any funny experiences in Belize?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, in Belize. The only one that comes to mind is not mine, it's someone else's. They told me that their jeep bogged down on a muddy road in southern Belize and she had Prell shampoo, which is a thick like lubricant, which they put on. I guess they had burned out the wheel bearing or something. And they put this Prell shampoo on the wheel bearing to get them out of this mud hole and it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the ingenuity to get out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Not that this isn’t a highlight right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, well, what do you think you can just one last thing. Do you recall any funny stories at all? Any funny experiences in Belize?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, in Belize. The only one that comes to mind is not mine, it's someone else's. They told me that their jeep bogged down on a muddy road in southern Belize and she had Prell shampoo, which is a thick like lubricant, which they put on. I guess they had burned out the wheel bearing or something. And they put this Prell shampoo on the wheel bearing to get them out of this mud hole and it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the ingenuity to get out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:36:0g0] I never had that kind of experience. I had many times we were stuck, but we always managed to get out. I had no tragic things and I’m trying to think of anything really crazy. Sounds like I had a dull time. Memories get lost and pushed back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No no no. You’ve done a great job. How many groups went to Belize? Are we still in British Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, in Belize. The only one that comes to mind is not mine, it's someone else's. They told me that their jeep bogged down on a muddy road in southern Belize and she had Prell shampoo, which is a thick like lubricant, which they put on. I guess they had burned out the wheel bearing or something. And they put this Prell shampoo on the wheel bearing to get them out of this mud hole and it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the ingenuity to get out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:36:0g0] I never had that kind of experience. I had many times we were stuck, but we always managed to get out. I had no tragic things and I’m trying to think of anything really crazy. Sounds like I had a dull time. Memories get lost and pushed back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No no no. You’ve done a great job. How many groups went to Belize? Are we still in British Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many groups went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:36:0g0] I never had that kind of experience. I had many times we were stuck, but we always managed to get out. I had no tragic things and I’m trying to think of anything really crazy. Sounds like I had a dull time. Memories get lost and pushed back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No no no. You’ve done a great job. How many groups went to Belize? Are we still in British Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many groups went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pretty much stay there all the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00205:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pretty much stay there all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so. We've had a newsletter, I might add. We do a Christmas newsletter that has been since we left. And so our group is still in touch. And that's been. It's my turn this year, so I'll be doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your experience. And we hope whoever listens to this again will learn and be able to use it for whatever purpose they're choosing to use it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.14696319953129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jungle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Desert?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everything, all American stereotypes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we landed. They put us in a hotel. Actually, the airline put us in a hotel, which we were told is not the kind of hotel volunteers live in. And you're only there because you don't have time to look for proper accommodations, proper meaning much less expensive and much more in line with where we're going to be for the next two years. So we stayed there. I remember all of us looking out the window very cautiously, sort of saying, well, I guess we should go out there and see what it's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go and explore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 34.13205333275467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we landed. They put us in a hotel. Actually, the airline put us in a hotel, which we were told is not the kind of hotel volunteers live in. And you're only there because you don't have time to look for proper accommodations, proper meaning much less expensive and much more in line with where we're going to be for the next two years. So we stayed there. I remember all of us looking out the window very cautiously, sort of saying, well, I guess we should go out there and see what it's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go and explore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we sort of walked around very cautiously. I can imagine what we looked like. You know, a hundred or probably hundred of us walking around all new, very green, very young. And then we all were told to find accommodations for yourself, which we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we scattered, and most of us ended up in about three different hotels. We were both having language instruction for half of the day and then the morning, half of the day was spent in a practice teaching situation, which was really very wise because overwhelmingly the people recruited in those days were 21 or 22 year olds who were going to be in a classroom. And I would say probably 90 percent of the people ending up in classrooms had never been in a classroom other than on the other side of the desk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, but they had never taught."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.48832890100539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in a town of about 50,000, and I lived in, you know, not in any way luxurious, perfectly nice housing. I mean, we had a wooden floor and actually I had a bathroom inside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Running water, electricity. And so, yeah, it was nice. It was, I can't say it was. We were not, at least I was not a poster volunteer. In other words, I, you know, but that we had lots of them in Ethiopia. So I remember the big day came and Peace Corps had hired a bus to take us up. They had thought of just letting us go and find a bus, go to the bus terminal, get on the bus ourselves and go to hither and yon. But I think maybe they thought that might be overdose. So we were all in this bus. Not all of us. The country is big. So I mean, you're probably had six or seven busses going to different parts, north east, south, and west. So I remember being on the bus with other Peace Corps volunteers and what struck me most on that trip is that as we went up. Now I was going the provincial capital. Was that more or less, well there are a couple of towns beyond it, but it was towards the end of it.\n\nAnd I must admit I would look and people were getting off at towns that were barely towns. I mean, and it was just. I remember the first ones to get off. Even today, I've seen it recently and there's nothing there. There is nothing there. It's just a bunch of rundown houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was there anyone there to meet them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually there wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would have to find their way to school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 34.12665144170835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what would happen is. I watched the first one, it was this very. We were all 21, 22 years old. First was this marriage couple, married couple, and I remember they got to the door of the bus and they looked back and they looked forward and they looked back again at all of us. And they said, well, goodbye, see you at Christmas. And they stepped down and we all sort of looked at them and thought, boy, I wonder how it's going to go. Now that we did watch them go a few yards and there would be some young students there who would be saying, oh, we can find you a house or we know where Peace Corps volunteers lived before, we can, we can find something. So we waved goodbye, and this repeated itself as we went along the road. Because many are very small towns. Peace Corps existed, especially in the junior secondary schools, in very, very small towns. They weren't remote because what I'm describing took place on a road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So right away you'd say, well, therefore, you get a lot more remote in Ethiopia than these towns. But to us watching them, you sort of think, what will they do all day other than teaching? So then we went on. The beauty of the countryside was just striking. That was the other thing that struck me, you know, having grown up on movies where Africa was hot and covered with forest and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mountains, jungle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Monkeys making noise and everything like that. Here comes this country that is absolutely beautiful, very mountainous, cultivated for the last three thousand years. So sort of, you know, totally unlike any stereotype I may have had. So we ended up in the town we were going to. There were seven of us, the seven of us assigned to that provincial capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.533867495037516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Visit a lot of rural places. Visit, you know, sit in a classroom of first and second graders, see how they were dressed, how far they came to go to the school, and things like that. That was absolutely wonderful. And as I said, the counterparts, my counterparts who were teaching at the teacher training institute, or some of them were at the local high school in that town. We were not at the high school, we were at a separate campus. But I got to know them and it was a great feeling. It was a very good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there also other Peace Corps at that place or were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one other Peace Corps volunteer in that area. There were two Brits. There were two Swedes. The faculty was more Ethiopian and not so much the national service teachers, but the regular people who graduated from the university education faculty who were teaching young people who were going to teach in elementary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in your off hours, what did your social life involve? Kind of a mix of teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually involved other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Both locals and some of these other ex-pats?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.46742111642452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the wisest thing to be. Inevitably, it tended to be as happened finally in Ethiopia, the revolution. It tended to be on the left, which inevitably put volunteers and the United States in general in sort of an awkward position. The U.S. had always been a very friendly country to Ethiopia and to the emperor's government. And so there was increasing at the university, tension, strikes, riots, tear gas, that sort of thing. The Peace Corps office, there's my third year, in Addis Ababa had to move from where they had been for many years, which had been near the university campus, because students always would rally and march to the Peace Corps office and throw rocks at it and break windows and things like that. So they end up getting a new office way, way, way out on the edge of town. The theory being the students will never walk all the way out here, and they never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would they target the Peace Corps office? What was their perception?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, because we were American in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, we were. If you asked the average Ethiopian how he ever encountered American. There was a U.S. military base up in Eritrea. But other than that, you met, um, you didn't meet the USAID people. I'm sure their technical counterparts did. But I mean, in terms of actually in the grassroots interacting with other, with university students, national service teachers, and things like that. I mean, it did not end friendships, but it certainly, you began to think this is going to be very difficult to maintain. Certainly at my, what was it called? The final conference you have when you're exiting the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close of service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.169975790922905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The revolution was in '74. The volunteer program ended in '75. But you could see that coming, not the details of how it worked out, but the strikes were going on every year. You would lose enormous amounts of the school year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then while these strikes were going on, what did you do? You couldn't teach. You weren't at school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't teach. You stayed away from mobs, crowds. You stayed at home. You read a book. Sometimes you, if it looked like was going to go on for some time, you might go to Addis Ababa. You might go to parts of the country as a tourist who, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that must have been frustrating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was frustrating for everybody, staff, Peace Corps staff and Peace Corps volunteers. Also, the uncertainty, I think, was difficult. And the people were alarmed at the potential for security problems. There had been a security problem in one town where people had been beaten up, so this, it was changing. Volunteers were not opposed to that, as inevitably were said at meetings, we're all university students in America. We know how students get involved in politics. So no one on the Peace Corps side was saying, you shouldn't do this, to their students. We were apprised and I think correctly that, well, whether they should do it or they shouldn't do it isn't our call. We are volunteers and we're foreigners.\n\nSo that became, it was becoming increasingly difficult. I never personally had a difficult time because of politics, though the national service teachers who were assigned to the schools were sort of the engine of student unrest and disruption, and you did see a change in attitude. So that was a very big change in Ethiopia. And it certainly affected Peace Corps. I also worked in two training programs for volunteers in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For new groups that came in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.839476285090004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was frustrating for everybody, staff, Peace Corps staff and Peace Corps volunteers. Also, the uncertainty, I think, was difficult. And the people were alarmed at the potential for security problems. There had been a security problem in one town where people had been beaten up, so this, it was changing. Volunteers were not opposed to that, as inevitably were said at meetings, we're all university students in America. We know how students get involved in politics. So no one on the Peace Corps side was saying, you shouldn't do this, to their students. We were apprised and I think correctly that, well, whether they should do it or they shouldn't do it isn't our call. We are volunteers and we're foreigners.\n\nSo that became, it was becoming increasingly difficult. I never personally had a difficult time because of politics, though the national service teachers who were assigned to the schools were sort of the engine of student unrest and disruption, and you did see a change in attitude. So that was a very big change in Ethiopia. And it certainly affected Peace Corps. I also worked in two training programs for volunteers in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For new groups that came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for new groups. And that was also, I enjoyed that a lot. And we did that in two towns in a coffee producing area. And that was interesting watching. And at that point, all training took place in-country. They had a preparatory week or something in the States, but everybody came and did their entire three months in country, which was different than our experience. And that, I enjoyed that tremendously. It was great meeting new volunteers. It was great listening to the same questions on the certainty that we had all had and seeing reactions. Some people went home as happens in any training program. Others stayed and were wonderful, and that was very enjoyable. And that would be three months. I did that two summers in a row. So I really, I did like that a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you liked the country enough that you extended for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must've been hard when you finally had to leave."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.154973650100004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for new groups. And that was also, I enjoyed that a lot. And we did that in two towns in a coffee producing area. And that was interesting watching. And at that point, all training took place in-country. They had a preparatory week or something in the States, but everybody came and did their entire three months in country, which was different than our experience. And that, I enjoyed that tremendously. It was great meeting new volunteers. It was great listening to the same questions on the certainty that we had all had and seeing reactions. Some people went home as happens in any training program. Others stayed and were wonderful, and that was very enjoyable. And that would be three months. I did that two summers in a row. So I really, I did like that a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you liked the country enough that you extended for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must've been hard when you finally had to leave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was ready to leave, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Decided you probably needed a change?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 34.616637389000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must've been hard when you finally had to leave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was ready to leave, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Decided you probably needed a change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't go on forever. It's just not healthy for me. I have a life to live and it's not there. So I was very, you know, I was ready to leave. I enjoyed coming back. There's all the, I think, and one of the things I think the National Peace Corps Association is good at is reaching out to returned volunteers because I think it is very disorienting when you come back. And you have a two-year period or longer, in some cases, that's very, very meaningful to you and allows you to come right out of, in those days, right out of college. It's different today. Peace Corps is different, and I think better today in that sense. But you come out and you have this intense experience and it's wonderful and everything like that. And you come back, and I'm sure the first experience you have is life isn't measuring up. I mean, this is not. I'm supposed to be always on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Try and get back to the routine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.519490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One can do other things, which I was not really very focused on before. So being fairly conservative and vesting in those days was a 10 year process. So I got through my 10 years of corporate life, a little bit more than 10 years. And someone brought to my attention that the American Red Cross did things other than blood services and domestic disaster response, had an entire international program. And they were looking for someone to run their international operations. Actually, the person who brought this to my attention was an Ethiopian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, somebody that you'd known from your Peace Corps time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had known relatives of his when I was in Ethiopia. I did not know him directly. I met him here. Very nice guy. And he brought that to my attention. At first I thought, hmm, I don't know. I looked at it. I thought, what the hell? I might as well try this. So I went and had an interview. And they interviewed several people. So I got the job and I love that, I loved. I was with them for like 15 years, always doing international stuff. Some things in Ethiopia. I got to know the Ethiopian Red Cross quite well. But mainly a lot of things in Latin America, a lot of things in Asia. And I just, I enjoyed it. Eventually went from being director of operations to being the vice president for the whole thing, which was good. I felt very great about that ego satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of time in, uh, boy, if you think your life is bureaucratic? Peace Corps, um, Red Cross can be very bureaucratic. A lot of time in Geneva working with the other Red Cross and Red Crescent organizations, but it was wonderful job. But at that time, by that time I was married. How Ethiopia keeps popping up in my life. I married an Ethiopian. One of the best decisions I ever made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this wasn't while you were volunteer, this is years after?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00118:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the subsequent events that probably made the life of my, both my counterparts and my students, very, very difficult, and that's beyond your control. It's the country working out its future, which you are an observer. You're not a participant. And that, you know, had some things that were disappointing I think to all the volunteers that were there. But whether it's disappointing to us or gratifying to us, that's not really the bottom line. It's how did it work for the people in the country and they have to make the decision on that. But that was maybe a shadow over the whole thing, the way situations ended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, it's unfortunate that happened. Yeah. All right. Well, OK, if there's nothing else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The NPCA is doing a great job. I really appreciate the National Peace Corps Association. I think they're getting that. But that has reinvigorated the returned Peace Corps volunteer community, and I'm tremendously appreciative of the work they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll pass that on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Thanks very much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.515713440735524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Guatemala. And your job description in Guatemala was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what month and year did you arrive there in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed until when?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.23968160081725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what month and year did you arrive there in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed until when?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "August of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your current address, Norma?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.155201778685832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, let's see. It must have been January of 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed until when?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "August of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your current address, Norma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.283557531873146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "August of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your current address, Norma?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.537286146525716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in Santa Barbara. My current address is [address] in Santa Barbara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and you've been in Santa Barbara for how long now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I moved back from being 12 years overseas, and so I was ready to come back to the United States and wanted to live near my mother and my sister. Had no job. My husband had no job. We decided we would bring our three children here and make it work. So we did. We had all sorts of part time jobs, and then we started a business together of a language institute, and that took off unexpectedly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that somehow related to your Peace Corps experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 33.930317940584125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you been doing in Santa Barbara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I moved back from being 12 years overseas, and so I was ready to come back to the United States and wanted to live near my mother and my sister. Had no job. My husband had no job. We decided we would bring our three children here and make it work. So we did. We had all sorts of part time jobs, and then we started a business together of a language institute, and that took off unexpectedly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that somehow related to your Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, I was, I graduated from college and high school majoring in Spanish, and even my husband and my Peace Corps and almost everything I've done since that time has been related to the language, knowing Spanish. So I'd have to say reversed. I knew when I went into the Peace Corps I wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country, and that's what happened. And a lot of things I've done in my life since Peace Corps have been because of Peace Corps or the same type of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we've kind of jumped right into it. But you said you wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country. But what made you interested in Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.406972628352197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just very, very profound. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were, we were just totally doubly motivated, but it was a hard time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a really hard time. So I'll never forget it. I mean, it was just one of the memorable moments of my life, although it was a tragedy. And Barbara said later that she was in a little African village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barbara's your sister?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.551818059694067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a really hard time. So I'll never forget it. I mean, it was just one of the memorable moments of my life, although it was a tragedy. And Barbara said later that she was in a little African village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barbara's your sister?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barbara's my sister. And everyone there knew exactly who it was. The whole world knew President Kennedy. And I was even historically surprised later, many years later, I met Hubert Humphrey, and no one gives him the credit because it was his idea. It was President Kennedy's opportunity to put it in place but it was actually Hubert Humphrey's idea. And I used to, I worked for the governor of Wisconsin, and he came through and we had a nice little conversation about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.39090895521563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barbara's my sister. And everyone there knew exactly who it was. The whole world knew President Kennedy. And I was even historically surprised later, many years later, I met Hubert Humphrey, and no one gives him the credit because it was his idea. It was President Kennedy's opportunity to put it in place but it was actually Hubert Humphrey's idea. And I used to, I worked for the governor of Wisconsin, and he came through and we had a nice little conversation about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, because I was a clerk. I started out with the governor as a clerk, I moved up to be an administrative assistant. But when he saw me, I was in the back room with the files and he was going down some back stairs. And so he was quite surprised that I had any knowledge of that at all. And we had, I went down the stairs with him, so we had time to talk about it. So I think he was as pleased as I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Well, it sounds to me as if you, just even the training was a big event for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.989898839128477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said he didn't need the credit, that he was just glad that it had happened. So that was another memorable experience for me because, you know, he was really the one that had thought, you know, well, it took both of them. It took the idea and it took the person to implement it so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any details about that visit? Was he surprised that you were talking to him about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, because I was a clerk. I started out with the governor as a clerk, I moved up to be an administrative assistant. But when he saw me, I was in the back room with the files and he was going down some back stairs. And so he was quite surprised that I had any knowledge of that at all. And we had, I went down the stairs with him, so we had time to talk about it. So I think he was as pleased as I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Well, it sounds to me as if you, just even the training was a big event for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was wonderful, even with this tragedy that happened in the middle of it. We had first been told that we were going to train in Puerto Rico. And all of us had been sent tickets to New York. We were going to meet in New York and then fly to Puerto Rico. And I left on the plane and I got to New York and I got to the hotel where I was supposed to be, and they were like eight or ten other people. And it turned out that they had sent telegrams to everyone not to come, that there was an epidemic of influenza on the island where we were going to be training, and they had canceled our training for a month. Well, there were eight or ten of us in New York already. The others had gotten the telegram in time not to come. We had four wonderful days there before we went back to our homes to wait for the next ticket to the next place. And so that was the beginning that started us all off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that this was not going to be this smooth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.600684278639882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Organized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you ended up training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.667426976266533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you ended up training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why they chose Las Cruces?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.408252195851706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. So then we, you know, and there was a bit of a disappointment for those who hadn't come. And we that had gotten there had a wonderful time and got to know each other and saw the city. Went back to our homes and then regrouped a month later in Las Cruces, New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you ended up training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why they chose Las Cruces?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't know what, you know, this is way back in 1960. This is in the very beginning. So I, probably that was Spanish speaking country, I don't know, or that was a university that was willing to take on a project like that. We lived in what looked like, felt like a Holiday Inn. It was really a dormitory on the campus, but they were suites and it just seemed like, I felt like I was living in a Holiday Inn and it was quite different from where I was back in the South because the weather was different. And we had a wonderful time there. The main politics on campus were if the guys could wear their big ten gallon hats in the cafeteria. We had better things to do, and we had a wonderful time. The instructors were wonderful. We did all sorts of rope climbing and rappelling and, you know, all the physical things that they had us do to train us to be ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did they, why did they feel you needed the physical training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 23.388968815478172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, the other physical fitness thing I remember before we change the theme, I was in the swimming pool. We were fully clothed, and they tied our hands and feet and threw us in the deep end of a swimming pool. So then they taught us, and I still use it to this day, where you swallow the air into your lungs and use it as a buoyant. And we all lay right on top of the water, all with these heavy clothes and our hands and feet immovable. So it was just great. It was wonderful training. Scary as could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year is this again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.98774312830908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, the other physical fitness thing I remember before we change the theme, I was in the swimming pool. We were fully clothed, and they tied our hands and feet and threw us in the deep end of a swimming pool. So then they taught us, and I still use it to this day, where you swallow the air into your lungs and use it as a buoyant. And we all lay right on top of the water, all with these heavy clothes and our hands and feet immovable. So it was just great. It was wonderful training. Scary as could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year is this again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right across the river? Laredo?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.653047920343422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is, um, well we were in Guatemala '63 to '65. So that had been the fall of '62 ['63] when Kennedy died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said that it was right in the middle of your training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right across the river? Laredo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like your group was very spirited."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.170053244826024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we had all sorts of classes. We had classes from 7:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. Four hours of language. And I already spoke Spanish. And I was with one other girl who was a Chicana, who was also fluent in Spanish. And two of us were the main, you know, we were the highest class. And then all the others were, you know, depending on how much they've had. So we had a lot of fun with the native speakers who were hired to do the language, and then we had all sorts of other classes. And on the weekend, on Sunday, we would go down to El Paso and cross over into, um, Mexico, not Tijuana. What's the other one in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right across the river? Laredo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like your group was very spirited."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the baby."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.744503605362247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh gosh, how could I forget that? We'd go to the bullfights, we'd send Sargent Shriver postcards telling him we were having a wonderful time. Oh, why can't I say the name? Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like your group was very spirited."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the baby."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not there, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.49389289484694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spirited. There were 65 of us. There were eight married couples. There was a woman who was 65 years old, and I was the youngest. I was 20. So every night, off to the bars. I could go, but I had to sit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the baby."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not there, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.326547660941046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to sit at a separate table and they took turns babysitting me and I always got razzed to death for that. And then I turned 21 in Guatemala and it was just not, you know, it wasn't even fun because it didn't make any difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not there, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.918386289934494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember the razzing. Yeah. It was a lot of very, very social. A lot of really neat people. Really neat people. And yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you, um, you had language instructors there. Were they Guatemalans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.464873655482771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Central Americans. I don't remember there were any Guatemalans, but I just remember how impressed I was when the tragedy happened and Kennedy was shot, that they were as emotional and as upset as any of us. And that was just the beginning of understanding that the world knew and loved this man. And there was Barbara in Africa and all these people in these little villages knew exactly what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did your family write to you at all about the reaction to Kennedy's death, or did you write them? I wonder, with an event like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, when I say that we were going to be a Peace Corps family, the reason we turned out not to be wasn't because of that. It was because my mother and father went to have their physicals and my father found out he had leukemia, and he probably would not have found that out with a regular checkup. But the one for Peace Corps was so intense and thorough that they found that. So we were always grateful, not for the information. We didn't like what we found out, but he probably wouldn't have found it out and he might have had a different experience. He was able to live five years well and then about five months in pain before he died. So that was another big piece, you know, that we weren't going to be this Peace Corps family, and they weren't going to have an experience like we were having. But they were always thrilled, of course, that we were having that, both of us, and totally different. Totally different experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Barbara was writing you a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.183192950536412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in training when that happened. So then I, you know, our training was like September to the 1st of December, middle of December, and then we went home for two weeks for Christmas. So all of that was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just wondering if that had, if that changed their feelings about your going into the Peace Corps? Maybe made it stronger, maybe gave them some reservations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, when I say that we were going to be a Peace Corps family, the reason we turned out not to be wasn't because of that. It was because my mother and father went to have their physicals and my father found out he had leukemia, and he probably would not have found that out with a regular checkup. But the one for Peace Corps was so intense and thorough that they found that. So we were always grateful, not for the information. We didn't like what we found out, but he probably wouldn't have found it out and he might have had a different experience. He was able to live five years well and then about five months in pain before he died. So that was another big piece, you know, that we weren't going to be this Peace Corps family, and they weren't going to have an experience like we were having. But they were always thrilled, of course, that we were having that, both of us, and totally different. Totally different experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Barbara was writing you a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you were in Guatemala, were you writing back to your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.75702833399557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you were in Guatemala, were you writing back to your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. And I remember, in fact, I have a letter. I don't know where, I have them somewhere. I haven't read them for years. But I remember feeling so, um, vulnerable because there was so much poverty that we lived around. And my mother wrote, I mostly remember her writing me than me writing her because she would, in every letter she'd say, whatever you're doing, you eat well, you take care of yourself because you're doing for them more than they've ever had in that neighborhood. And, you know, you can't, or it's not productive for you to suffer what they're going through. Instead, put your energy into trying to help them raise their standard of living. So and things like that that were just wonderful, very helpful because I'm very empathic. Those kind of things bother me a lot, when people are hungry. So that was hard to live with and I had to get used to that. So her letters were very inspiring. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did your training in New Mexico. And then you had the two weeks, you said, before you left the country, before you left the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So those are memories of your last night before you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.7300314822173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. And I remember, in fact, I have a letter. I don't know where, I have them somewhere. I haven't read them for years. But I remember feeling so, um, vulnerable because there was so much poverty that we lived around. And my mother wrote, I mostly remember her writing me than me writing her because she would, in every letter she'd say, whatever you're doing, you eat well, you take care of yourself because you're doing for them more than they've ever had in that neighborhood. And, you know, you can't, or it's not productive for you to suffer what they're going through. Instead, put your energy into trying to help them raise their standard of living. So and things like that that were just wonderful, very helpful because I'm very empathic. Those kind of things bother me a lot, when people are hungry. So that was hard to live with and I had to get used to that. So her letters were very inspiring. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did your training in New Mexico. And then you had the two weeks, you said, before you left the country, before you left the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So those are memories of your last night before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at home, washing your hair."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.811146091352555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we met in Miami and they really went out and played all night. And I stayed home and washed my hair because I knew if I got caught, I wouldn't be able to go because I wasn't old enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So those are memories of your last night before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at home, washing your hair."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then and everybody else is out having a good time. But then, see, we got on the plane and went to Guatemala the next day and that became a non-issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your first impressions? Do you have any memories of arriving in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.345717879280619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at home, washing your hair."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then and everybody else is out having a good time. But then, see, we got on the plane and went to Guatemala the next day and that became a non-issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your first impressions? Do you have any memories of arriving in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, we were community development. We were CARE volunteers. In the early stages, they used some of the already existing American, um, not businesses, but organizations that were already established. And Guatemala I and Guatemala II were both Grange projects. So that meant they were all males, they were cattle, they were up in the country, out in the country, you know, dealing with farmers and their cattle. And so when our community development project came, they associated us with CARE. Actually, our bosses were CARE people, they were employees of CARE. And we went to the CARE office for meetings or our checks or whatever. And we really liked that. We thought that was really cool, that we could be CARE volunteers.\n\nAnd in the CARE office there was a Rolodex next to a great big barrel, and in the barrel were just hundreds of seeds of all different kinds in the little envelopes they come in. And so if you took a bunch of seeds to make a garden, you went through the Rolodex. It was by state, and you went to your state and you got the name of somebody who'd given a donation to CARE, and then you wrote them as a Peace Corps volunteer and thanked them and told them about the vegetable garden that you were using their money that had gone for seeds for the children in such and such a place. And it was, you know, to thank people for their donations and give it a, you know, a home town homegrown flavor of what this was doing, that it was actually being done in the foreign country. So we used to love to do that. We thought that was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you actually posted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.385368653934451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I think it really did. I got to be a part of his family that whole time. So I think in some ways I got to know the culture in ways that other volunteers didn't. And I ended up marrying a Latin American, not him, but another one. So I think probably it did really color my experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that fairly common among your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, very uncommon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about within the group of volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.650409615482722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, very uncommon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about within the group of volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Within the group there were several, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone get married from your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.05601068386969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And we had a lot of fun. Our house was like the social place. We had one of the four of us was a gourmet cook and we were all, we had a group of about ten or 12 of us that were very close. But even though not just with them, but when any other volunteers came into the city, they always came to our house. And we had Peace Corps parties and we invited our friends or the neighbors we knew. And so, um, but I don't think very many of the other volunteers had romances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about within the group of volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Within the group there were several, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone get married from your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With one another?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.6177896487441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Within the group there were several, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone get married from your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With one another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think, I can think of two. And they were already eight couples and three had babies there while we were there. So that was always very exciting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three had babies while you were there? They didn't send them home when they had babies then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.85567853051317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But we had very strict rules and we were never allowed to go back to the United States or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know they do now, but that seems very strange. We had very strict rules, but they did allow that. In fact, one of the women, um, she had a group of women in her village, they were all Indian women. And they kept telling her about all these myths, you know, the whole time she was pregnant. And she kept doing exactly what they told her not to, like stare at the full moon and all these things that were going to make her have a baby that wasn't normal. And finally she decided if she went into the city, because they did mandate them to go into the city hospital. They couldn't have a baby, you know, in their own village. She thought, well, these women are not going to believe that the baby I bring back is the baby that I had. So she arranged to have all these women come in on a bus and come into the hospital and watch her birth. I don't remember the details because I didn't know her that well, but I thought that was going to an extreme of a wonderful way to educate, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.728531700570187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know they do now, but that seems very strange. We had very strict rules, but they did allow that. In fact, one of the women, um, she had a group of women in her village, they were all Indian women. And they kept telling her about all these myths, you know, the whole time she was pregnant. And she kept doing exactly what they told her not to, like stare at the full moon and all these things that were going to make her have a baby that wasn't normal. And finally she decided if she went into the city, because they did mandate them to go into the city hospital. They couldn't have a baby, you know, in their own village. She thought, well, these women are not going to believe that the baby I bring back is the baby that I had. So she arranged to have all these women come in on a bus and come into the hospital and watch her birth. I don't remember the details because I didn't know her that well, but I thought that was going to an extreme of a wonderful way to educate, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?\n\nThere was I and II. And of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were still there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.698368556189095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And later these people, I mean, the baby, I don't remember exactly. She probably was a year old. And the mother and father, the volunteers, went on a two week vacation and left her with the Indians. And she came, when they came back, she was so loved by all this village that when they finally left the Peace Corps and went back to the United States with their baby, they said she had a terrible adjustment because now she only had one mother and father and she'd had like 30 of each. And so she really had an adjustment. But those are the memorable things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?\n\nThere was I and II. And of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.887076173543438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was your, were there other groups in Guatemala at the same time as your group was there?\n\nThere was I and II. And of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if everyone else was out in the countryside."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.318973526159375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were still there. I'm not sure how much we overlapped, and I don't even remember Guatemala IV. I think they came in as we were getting ready to go. But I don't have any sense of them or what their project was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like, I imagine, as you said, you the eight of you were in the city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if everyone else was out in the countryside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they would come in for visits or for Peace Corps business or just?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.909970584621526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if everyone else was out in the countryside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they would come in for visits or for Peace Corps business or just?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for whatever. You know, they might come in to get seeds and equipment or they might come in to, um, for a medical reason, or they might, we all might be called in for a meeting or something. The CARE, um, we were CARE volunteers probably a year. And then there was a major change and they sent a regular Peace Corps director. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Think about the changeover in the administration from CARE to the regular Peace Corps director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.946694321552872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was many years after, but I knew these are the kinds of people who would do that. And they did. I think that, yeah, I think they're just basically fine people that really wanted to do, make a difference. And one of the gals in my Peace Corps group became the president of the City Council of New York. One of the guys in our group became President Carter's appointment secretary. So. Those are the probably two. Yes, I mean, they were the two outstanding ones, but boy, the others weren't far behind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, your own background that you described sounded to me to be ideal training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. But they didn't have. I mean, a lot of them didn't have the support from their families that I had. I really appreciated that later when I realized how little support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, some of these parents were angry at them for doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that you talked about a lot among yourself? How your family felt?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.274104801725413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. But they didn't have. I mean, a lot of them didn't have the support from their families that I had. I really appreciated that later when I realized how little support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, some of these parents were angry at them for doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that you talked about a lot among yourself? How your family felt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't think I even realized it until I got on the airplane to go home with, there were three of us. One of my roommates and this gal who'd been up in, the one who became the president of the City Council of New York, wonderful gal. She's now with the United Nations over in UNESCO in Geneva and is a good friend of Hillary Clinton's and could very well be a political leader, female political leaders in our, in our time. And her father was just, he met us at the airport in Miami. And he was just furious that she had wasted two years and was very unsupportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasting two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.5049448583339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. That's when it began to hit me of how much I had, it had come naturally, you know. And they took me, they took me without graduating from college. OK, why?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very unusual. And it was for one reason only. And that was my sister was already in the Peace Corps and I had the same references, the same background, you know what I'm saying? And by that time, they had discovered maybe not use just straight A students, maybe B students that had a little more socialization. I don't know if they'd had problems with that, but that's how it was told to me, that they were looking for a little bit of diversity. And I seemed to, I had that language, you see, I already had the language, and I think that was a really important thing. Although this is another, um, important point, because this was way in the beginning. You didn't say, you know, I'm not going unless I have this comfort or that comfort. But I had a bottom line and that was a running and flushing toilet. And I just boldly said, I want to go to a Spanish speaking country, but I have to have a flushing toilet. And so I was picked to be in the group, the four women that stayed in the city that had a little house with three little bedrooms and a flushing toilet bathroom.\n\nAlthough everyone in the neighborhood every morning at 7 a.m. heard the gringa scream. Because I, when I hit that cold water for the shower, which had no hot water. I, the only way I could hit that cold water in the morning was screaming. And so the whole neighborhood would say, oh, la gringa! Because they knew it was me taking a shower. But I got my flushing toilet and that was, that was very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's why you were in the city, not because of the age, perhaps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your being underage."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.116605398148778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very unusual. And it was for one reason only. And that was my sister was already in the Peace Corps and I had the same references, the same background, you know what I'm saying? And by that time, they had discovered maybe not use just straight A students, maybe B students that had a little more socialization. I don't know if they'd had problems with that, but that's how it was told to me, that they were looking for a little bit of diversity. And I seemed to, I had that language, you see, I already had the language, and I think that was a really important thing. Although this is another, um, important point, because this was way in the beginning. You didn't say, you know, I'm not going unless I have this comfort or that comfort. But I had a bottom line and that was a running and flushing toilet. And I just boldly said, I want to go to a Spanish speaking country, but I have to have a flushing toilet. And so I was picked to be in the group, the four women that stayed in the city that had a little house with three little bedrooms and a flushing toilet bathroom.\n\nAlthough everyone in the neighborhood every morning at 7 a.m. heard the gringa scream. Because I, when I hit that cold water for the shower, which had no hot water. I, the only way I could hit that cold water in the morning was screaming. And so the whole neighborhood would say, oh, la gringa! Because they knew it was me taking a shower. But I got my flushing toilet and that was, that was very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's why you were in the city, not because of the age, perhaps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your being underage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they wanted to make sure you weren't out in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.78593259030713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they wanted to make sure you weren't out in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I did everything else everybody else did. I mean, I went across that rope. I gained my fame with that rope crossing. They just teased me because when we were in the bars in the town, they had to babysit me. But no, I held my own the rest of the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.87325843367459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I did everything else everybody else did. I mean, I went across that rope. I gained my fame with that rope crossing. They just teased me because when we were in the bars in the town, they had to babysit me. But no, I held my own the rest of the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you take some interviewing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.081398259638434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and they looked up to me because of the language, you know, so I could help them with language. So yeah. So it worked out. Yeah, it was a great group and I just have to wonder. It's just going to be such an exciting reunion after all this time, 40, 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I'll have to interview you after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you take some interviewing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.534886955153816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you take some interviewing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Resistance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Resistance or negativity by their families."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 27.26098550572646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I was thinking, I'm going to be doing this now. By the time I get there in August, I'll be either wanting to do, you know, and listening to all the things that they remember that I don't remember, or having them get excited about doing that with their associations wherever they're living. So I'm hoping that this is going to be a real important part of it, just bringing back all those memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that when you left Guatemala, the, uh, that's when some of the people who came home were met with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Resistance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Resistance or negativity by their families."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the one, the one did. And they weren't all like that. But that was when I began to appreciate the support that I had had, my mother's letter, just getting there in the first place. Just my background, you know, my international parents. That was unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I asked you what it felt, what you remembered about arriving in the country. What did it feel like the first few weeks or months when you had come back to the United States after your experiences?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.315935841680325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in Temple City, California. Yeah. And that was many years later. But it was all because of Peace Corps and bumping into this man in a funny way. And you know how those things happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the influences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's funny Peace Corps was kind of a thread all through your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. In fact, you know, when I think about it a little bit, I think of what I did in Guatemala, but I lived in Costa Rica for 12 years later, married with children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was long after?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.439426965037438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. In fact, you know, when I think about it a little bit, I think of what I did in Guatemala, but I lived in Costa Rica for 12 years later, married with children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was long after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long after. I mean, the 12, it was like. I've lived here in Santa Barbara 15 years. The 12 years before that, I lived in Costa Rica and my children were born there. But I did a project there that was much more productive in terms of helping, that I could feel like I was helping. I did a huge refugee project there that I named the Central American Refugee Project. And I just felt like, OK, I've done it once as a volunteer, I know how to do this. And it just came. It was just like the back of my hand, and I was able to create this huge, helpful situation only because I'd done it before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.266029961152707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long after. I mean, the 12, it was like. I've lived here in Santa Barbara 15 years. The 12 years before that, I lived in Costa Rica and my children were born there. But I did a project there that was much more productive in terms of helping, that I could feel like I was helping. I did a huge refugee project there that I named the Central American Refugee Project. And I just felt like, OK, I've done it once as a volunteer, I know how to do this. And it just came. It was just like the back of my hand, and I was able to create this huge, helpful situation only because I'd done it before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.29558884572523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really felt good after that because I could measure better. I was more mature, I was older, I was, you know, doing it from the ground up. I could measure it better. I learned so much. I remember getting off the airplane, going back to what happened when I went home. I got off the airplane and my mother and father looked at me and I said, I have experienced everything but marriage and death. And they always reminded me of that. It had been so eventful that that was my, you know, putting it into one comment that would have them know where I was coming from when I got off the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps was like a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.550654273028034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that that would be. And I've always said I didn't want to be the person I would have been if I hadn't, you know, I had been in a sorority. Well, there's nothing wrong with sororities, but I mean, that was kind of my level to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would it be fair to say that it really changed your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, and the Peace Corps and the Spanish one. The Spanish came before the Peace Corps, but it all flows together. Yeah. They all dovetail. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So you've done so many things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 25.056282525586703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In a way that you're pleased with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, and the Peace Corps and the Spanish one. The Spanish came before the Peace Corps, but it all flows together. Yeah. They all dovetail. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So you've done so many things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your activities in Santa Barbara? How have they related to your Peace Corps experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.31958927844338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Changing planes. All the planes meet there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had contact at all with people, even if you haven't been in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Peace, I consider Mary, who's in San Diego, my Peace Corps roommate. And when I, they didn't even know that Mary. They couldn't, the ones that contacted me didn't know where she was. And I've always kept in contact with her. They didn't even know she was married. They didn't know she was in San Diego. And so she's going to be in Chicago and I'm going to fly there and we're going to drive from Chicago to this, to this reunion. But they were, the ones that were that are doing the reunion, were very excited to find some of the people that they've lost. So we're not very organized. I know that there's a Guatemala group, but there are all the different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Every different group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Groups. And I need to join that. I mean, I want to hear about that and I'll learn all about that this summer. And I never had anything to do with Peace Corps in Costa Rica. There was a huge Peace Corps training there. But I somehow, you know, I was up on the mountain and my, with my little children, just in another world except for the project that we did. And it's still there. It's really lovely for me. I go to Costa Rica and the house and the farm that we lived on was called a finca ranch or farm, Finca Dona Norma after me. And then on the other mountain across the valley, there's another Finca Dona Norma, which is the refugees. They didn't know how to thank us for helping them, so they named it after me. So I had these two Finca Dona Normas in Costa Rica and I always love to go there and see how they're doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they're still there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.779957857947025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're still there. They're still there. And my whole idea was a very self-help project was to help build these houses and then they would eventually go back to El Salvador when they could, sell the house and the land and be able to have money to go back and redo a new life in El Salvador. And a Costa Rican family could buy their little house and their little piece of land. But what's happened is their children have all married into Costa Rica. And so none of them, very few of them I think, I don't think any of them have gone back now that I think about it. So, but that's a whole other story. But very Peace Corps. Very Peace Corps. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't bring Peace Corps back to America so much. I mean, your experience back to America so much as you brought them to American transit and then took them over to Costa Rica."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, I do, I speak Spanish all day long and my clients are all Latinos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Monolingual, except for the teens. I have two teen groups and they're in English, but we go back and forth. And so I feel like I'm still there. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is tape two of two tapes. Norma Benavides being interviewed by Elizabeth Hodes on April 26, 2003. And while I was changing the tape, you were reminded of something that you thought was an interesting experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.191532215527822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interaction between the volunteers and the staff, or was there much staff at that, in those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There. I think the staff wasn't more than maybe four people that I remember. First, it was the CARE staff. You know, Kenny and Tony were CARE administrators and their secretary had a romance with one of, with one of them. That was with one of them. And but like Kenny and his wife were there, and we went to their house for dinners a lot. We were in the city, for one thing, and we were very social. It was a very social group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you much guidance in terms of what you did or were you pretty independent and could do what you wanted to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think it was pretty programed through the social work school that we would live in these certain areas and we were working these specific projects. I mean, we did community development, we did the nutrition project, we did the inoculation project. That was another fun thing, this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't mention that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.768369128364245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There. I think the staff wasn't more than maybe four people that I remember. First, it was the CARE staff. You know, Kenny and Tony were CARE administrators and their secretary had a romance with one of, with one of them. That was with one of them. And but like Kenny and his wife were there, and we went to their house for dinners a lot. We were in the city, for one thing, and we were very social. It was a very social group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you much guidance in terms of what you did or were you pretty independent and could do what you wanted to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think it was pretty programed through the social work school that we would live in these certain areas and we were working these specific projects. I mean, we did community development, we did the nutrition project, we did the inoculation project. That was another fun thing, this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't mention that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me something about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.187926428886001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fluorescent light, why do we have to go to this extreme? You know, because most of the schools in Guatemala at that point only had three sides. It was made out of thatched roof. And the side that was open for light was the side that the rain didn't come in on. You don't need neon fluorescent lights, you know? And they would pick our brains because we were working down at the bottom level. I mean, we could really see what was, how to make the bridge the gap. And so that was always very interesting to me, you know, just how we would just go from one role to the other and just in and out of these different cultural worlds. And we would try and take the Guatemalans with us so that the people in those worlds would begin to recognize their faces through us. You know, that maybe when we left that they would still have the, some a little bit of clout to get what they needed after we were gone. And so we did a lot of that. We were really aware of that. Not sure why but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a question of continuity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yeah, I think we were always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think there was continuity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it could have been better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A residue of your program after you left."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.542140476540001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yeah, I think we were always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think there was continuity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it could have been better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A residue of your program after you left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.\n\nI remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To provide technical assistance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.935711640600001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it could have been better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A residue of your program after you left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.\n\nI remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To provide technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.373012934000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would, I would have to say that I really don't know. I've had other, another friend that had a cooperative, and he went back. And the cooperative, of course, had long gone. And he felt so dismal about that. But then he became, he went back to school and got a master's degree and became head of or worked for the Inter- American Bank. His entire life was influenced by his Peace Corps experience, starting with that cooperative and worked on lots of cooperatives in lots of countries. And, um, you know, we've all just kind of expanded from those small experiences into something, something bigger, something influential. Yeah. So as I say, it's hard to measure.\n\nI remember also saying to my parents or to everybody, I got so much more out of it than I ever put into it, you know? And I remember, and I was interested to see that the other day in something that Barbara had. The first reason for the Peace Corps is to go out. And how is this? There are three precepts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To provide technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to help promote better understanding of them by."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.858903260000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help promote better understanding of Americans by the people in the host country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to help promote better understanding of them by."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coming back, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bringing the world back home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.998646000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coming back, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bringing the world back home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I came, yeah. When I came home, I just felt like I had gotten so much more out of it than I had ever put into it. So that when I did the second project in Costa Rica, I felt fine. I felt like, OK, now I've given as much as I've gotten. So that had that kind of satisfaction to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet when I go back and look at all the things we did, we did so much, but it was hard to measure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It seems to me you had a very full two year experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. We dealt with some of the big organizations from other countries, especially the United States. We dealt with the mayor and the zone mayor. I mean, there were all sorts of things going on. We used to get movies. I remember the mayor of the zone and we'd go into this place and we put up and people would come from everywhere to see a movie. And we would get the movie projector from the German embassy and we'd get the movies from the American embassy and we get all these different people to help us just bring people together. It didn't matter if we were doing an inoculation program or what, or it's just for fun, just for entertainment, just for education. There is educational. But we were always dealing at many, many, many levels. And there was one male and one female put in each of the villages. And I just think it would have been a totally different experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When they came, did you ever talk about the differences in your experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. Oh, always, always. And one of the differences that, something that made a difference is that the guys that didn't drink had a harder time than the guys that drank. Because they would go to the cantinas and that's where a lot of the projects would start to have fruition. You know, they, the idea started there and then they would create it later. And the guys who didn't drink didn't have that social contact. Um, things like that that made a difference sometimes. But I was very happy to be in the city. I think it probably worked out best that way. My roommates were all older. They all had different problems that I didn't have. So that was interesting to see. But for the most, I don't know, I just have no idea what. I didn't live that other experience, um, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well looking back, is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanted, that occurred to you while we were talking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. Oh, always, always. And one of the differences that, something that made a difference is that the guys that didn't drink had a harder time than the guys that drank. Because they would go to the cantinas and that's where a lot of the projects would start to have fruition. You know, they, the idea started there and then they would create it later. And the guys who didn't drink didn't have that social contact. Um, things like that that made a difference sometimes. But I was very happy to be in the city. I think it probably worked out best that way. My roommates were all older. They all had different problems that I didn't have. So that was interesting to see. But for the most, I don't know, I just have no idea what. I didn't live that other experience, um, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well looking back, is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanted, that occurred to you while we were talking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you came away with that Peace Corps experience and it's colored your life in many ways."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00189:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it just underscores how much it's been an influence in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me as if it's a very big influence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you came away with that Peace Corps experience and it's colored your life in many ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many ways. Yeah. And I will forever be grateful because I feel like I've had a very productive life. And yet it's changed enormously. It's gone from one, you know, I worked as a social worker. I worked for the governor of Wisconsin. I worked as a teacher for 25 years. I taught English and Spanish in seven different countries. And then at the age of 45, I became a therapist. So but it's always been in with, um, you know, in that kind of Peace Corps context. And even today, you know, I spend my whole week with the lore, that I really believe that what I'm doing, working with the silent community of Santa Barbara, is really important. So.\n\nAnd I would have to say this, too, as a therapist, when I sit down with a Latino, there's something about how present oriented they are, which I experienced for all those years that I was in South America. It's like they give me a gift before I give them any gift or help, and I feel it and I don't feel that way with an Anglo client. So there's something about Latin America. I lived 17 years, almost a third of my life, there. That has real meaning for me. That's been a place that I fit into in my own way. So it wasn't just they sent me to this country that means nothing to me. It really is a part of me. And I carry it wherever I go. So I'm grateful that I could expand and appreciate my own culture, but also am able to go into another one and find comfort there as well. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that makes a nice way to end this interview. It's been a pleasure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.812636218429197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's all correct. Life changing experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So, Meredith, tell us what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year before I joined the Peace Corps, I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, which was a huge recruiting campus for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it still is, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.680706909365774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year before I joined the Peace Corps, I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, which was a huge recruiting campus for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it still is, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.200785454850859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it still is, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.778650505389843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in school, looking, getting a degree in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, terrific. We'll hear more about that in a minute. Let's go further back. Where were you born and where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had three brothers, two older and one younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're the only girl."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.420722783766491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Connecticut, but my family moved to Wisconsin when I was quite young, when I was about four. So I grew up in the Madison area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had three brothers, two older and one younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're the only girl."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what sort of work did your parents do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.704596029341347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what sort of work did your parents do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my parents were both nurses. My dad also had been a welder in the shipyards in Connecticut during the war. But when he came to Wisconsin, he did welding for a little while and then he did nursing in a variety of places and taught nursing here also. And my mother actually taught obstetrics after she was a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they farmed. We had this five acre, four or five acres here, and so they farmed to feed the family. They didn't farm to sell, but they farmed to keep us in produce and livestock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we're sitting here in a house. Is this the house, the very house that you grew up in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.338440032601496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my parents were both nurses. My dad also had been a welder in the shipyards in Connecticut during the war. But when he came to Wisconsin, he did welding for a little while and then he did nursing in a variety of places and taught nursing here also. And my mother actually taught obstetrics after she was a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they farmed. We had this five acre, four or five acres here, and so they farmed to feed the family. They didn't farm to sell, but they farmed to keep us in produce and livestock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we're sitting here in a house. Is this the house, the very house that you grew up in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The very house, the very house I grew up in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so all this wonderful land and the gardens behind us were your gardens as a child?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.825234608149994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The very house, the very house I grew up in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so all this wonderful land and the gardens behind us were your gardens as a child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. Yeah, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They still are gardens, just not ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so you went to high school in Madison?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.426215565617277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They still are gardens, just not ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so you went to high school in Madison?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to Central High."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Central High."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That doesn't exist anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.140239517352529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to Central High."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Central High."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That doesn't exist anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.822488352613921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That doesn't exist anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.580542614015467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it doesn't. It was a really diverse school. It was sort of a city center school and had, I think, probably a lot more racial diversity than the other two schools on east and west and a lot of Italians and African Americans from the south side were among our classmates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, yeah. And so what was your life in high school? Did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.20060290446163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a little bit of French and that was it. And, um, I was very interested in art. Was not real strong in science. And had some good, some fairly good aptitude in language. But it just, it wasn't a strong language school, you know, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't too much in the way of language until I got to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else did you do in high school? Were you involved in sports or any other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so certainly not international travel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.889558782735144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a cheerleader. I was. I worked on the school yearbook. I was kind of a bit of a social butterfly. And did lots of different things with art projects. Yes, it was my fun thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And um, outside of school in the summer vacations, did you and your family travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so certainly not international travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, oh no, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went off to college. You went to UW?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.543954203039049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We farmed. No, we did not. We were busy planting and harvesting and putting food in the freezer all winter long. We had a huge freezer in the basement that my dad had built, and we did very little traveling, especially when I was younger. But I don't remember any, like we didn't take trips to the national parks or, um. A little camping now and then. But really, we were pretty much here for the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so certainly not international travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, oh no, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went off to college. You went to UW?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.048838003376721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, oh no, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went off to college. You went to UW?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.609820003751913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to UW, partly for financial reasons. Although my brothers had gone, well, most of them, two of them had gone in the service and used GI bills to help pay for school. But for me, it was very economical to live at home, so I stayed at home and commuted to campus downtown. Sometimes I stayed at my grandmother's, who was closer to campus. And one semester I lived on campus, but pretty much here, yeah, just exploring the big university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so now, as a college student at the University of Wisconsin, did you study languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your major was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.233133337502125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I took Latin. I can't remember why I took Latin, but I took Latin because everybody thought it was a good basis for other things. And I think I took some French. I did not take Spanish. I had not a whit of Spanish when I volunteered for Peace Corps and got assigned to a Spanish speaking country. So I had a lot of learning to do there. But some foundational ideas about the difference in language things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get ever involved in the volunteer work in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your major was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social work. I started out as an art major and then within a year I transferred to social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there would have been field experiences."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.9257037083356945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. But um, I can't remember right now what I might have been working on. I mean, there was definitely work affiliated with my, um, my social work program, where I might have been volunteering at a daycare or something like that as part of my, what do they call it? Work study or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your major was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social work. I started out as an art major and then within a year I transferred to social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there would have been field experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes, yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then somewhere, was it while you were at the University of Wisconsin that you got this idea to go into the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.315683590537894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes, yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then somewhere, was it while you were at the University of Wisconsin that you got this idea to go into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually, I think it was. I mean, Kennedy was president when I started school and when I was in school, and I really like the idea of that, but it really shook me when he was assassinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't save the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.90631510059766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually, I think it was. I mean, Kennedy was president when I started school and when I was in school, and I really like the idea of that, but it really shook me when he was assassinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't save the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply while you were a student?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5625723339974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just rocked my boat and I felt like I owed it to the world. You know, his ask what you can do, ask not what you can do. You know, it really just was embedded in my thinking and I couldn't wait to get out of school and try and save the world. That is not what happened, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't save the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply while you were a student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think I actually had graduated. I got married just as I was leaving school and sort of had negotiated with my fiancé at the time. I said, I need to do this Peace Corps thing. It's just, my God, I have to do this. And you can either go with me or you can wait till I come back and see if I come back and see if I'm still the person you want to be with when I come back. And he said, no, no, he would apply. We would apply together. And so we actually applied as a married couple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a married couple. So your name before you were married was Margaret Green."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.291747037774889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't save the world. It still needs saving. But that was my young 21, 22 year old conception of I can really make a difference. I can really change things, and I really want to do this for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply while you were a student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think I actually had graduated. I got married just as I was leaving school and sort of had negotiated with my fiancé at the time. I said, I need to do this Peace Corps thing. It's just, my God, I have to do this. And you can either go with me or you can wait till I come back and see if I come back and see if I'm still the person you want to be with when I come back. And he said, no, no, he would apply. We would apply together. And so we actually applied as a married couple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a married couple. So your name before you were married was Margaret Green."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although nobody ever called you Margaret."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.10194115308321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think I actually had graduated. I got married just as I was leaving school and sort of had negotiated with my fiancé at the time. I said, I need to do this Peace Corps thing. It's just, my God, I have to do this. And you can either go with me or you can wait till I come back and see if I come back and see if I'm still the person you want to be with when I come back. And he said, no, no, he would apply. We would apply together. And so we actually applied as a married couple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a married couple. So your name before you were married was Margaret Green."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although nobody ever called you Margaret."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after you were married, you were Margaret Schroeder."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.891045725648012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although nobody ever called you Margaret."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after you were married, you were Margaret Schroeder."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Schroeder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your husband's first name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.507463858824705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Schroeder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your husband's first name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gary. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So um yeah. So we went, we were accepted together, and actually his engineering skills were really what they wanted more than my social work skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was an engineer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.45273762091634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gary. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So um yeah. So we went, we were accepted together, and actually his engineering skills were really what they wanted more than my social work skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was. And they had this electrification project in Ecuador that they wanted to help with. So I think that's why we ended up going to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you and your husband, you're married, you fill out an application together. Did you have to take exams? Do you remember any of that process of getting accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.280819578795933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So um yeah. So we went, we were accepted together, and actually his engineering skills were really what they wanted more than my social work skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was. And they had this electrification project in Ecuador that they wanted to help with. So I think that's why we ended up going to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you and your husband, you're married, you fill out an application together. Did you have to take exams? Do you remember any of that process of getting accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we did very much, you know. I mean, there were physical things we had to pass. But I, you know, in thinking about what that very first group, first groups we had to go through, I don't think it was nearly as rigorous as five years later or six years later, whatever it was that we were going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now 1967, um, was the draft for, I'm sorry, what was his name? Was it Gary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.200910643106592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was. And they had this electrification project in Ecuador that they wanted to help with. So I think that's why we ended up going to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you and your husband, you're married, you fill out an application together. Did you have to take exams? Do you remember any of that process of getting accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we did very much, you know. I mean, there were physical things we had to pass. But I, you know, in thinking about what that very first group, first groups we had to go through, I don't think it was nearly as rigorous as five years later or six years later, whatever it was that we were going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now 1967, um, was the draft for, I'm sorry, what was his name? Was it Gary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a factor for Gary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.112122936785102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we did very much, you know. I mean, there were physical things we had to pass. But I, you know, in thinking about what that very first group, first groups we had to go through, I don't think it was nearly as rigorous as five years later or six years later, whatever it was that we were going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now 1967, um, was the draft for, I'm sorry, what was his name? Was it Gary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a factor for Gary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not. He was 4-F. He'd had some surgery as a child and, um, had some issues relating to that, so he was exempt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.124581040872336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a factor for Gary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not. He was 4-F. He'd had some surgery as a child and, um, had some issues relating to that, so he was exempt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely an issue for a lot of people, but no, not for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not for him. And he was as excited as you were then, eventually?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.249534489858151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not. He was 4-F. He'd had some surgery as a child and, um, had some issues relating to that, so he was exempt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely an issue for a lot of people, but no, not for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not for him. And he was as excited as you were then, eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that he was ever as excited as I was. I think, you know, he was along for the ride. And he was a rural Wisconsin farm boy. Hadn't traveled much. Didn't have much of a world view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, neither one of you had traveled."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.277260544286834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely an issue for a lot of people, but no, not for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not for him. And he was as excited as you were then, eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that he was ever as excited as I was. I think, you know, he was along for the ride. And he was a rural Wisconsin farm boy. Hadn't traveled much. Didn't have much of a world view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, neither one of you had traveled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither one, absolutely not. Going to Montana for Peace Corps training was our first trip west of the Mississippi. I mean, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big deal. So let's hear about training. So you got a letter inviting you to train for Ecuador."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.419178382540927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that he was ever as excited as I was. I think, you know, he was along for the ride. And he was a rural Wisconsin farm boy. Hadn't traveled much. Didn't have much of a world view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, neither one of you had traveled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither one, absolutely not. Going to Montana for Peace Corps training was our first trip west of the Mississippi. I mean, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big deal. So let's hear about training. So you got a letter inviting you to train for Ecuador."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed any interest in any particular part of the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.243531536156585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither one, absolutely not. Going to Montana for Peace Corps training was our first trip west of the Mississippi. I mean, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big deal. So let's hear about training. So you got a letter inviting you to train for Ecuador."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed any interest in any particular part of the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that we had a particular part of the world in mind. It's possible I might have said South America just because I felt like it was, you know, more closer to home in terms of what was happening politically. But I don't think it mattered very much. I wasn't, you know, wasn't specific about that. And they trained us in Bozeman, Montana, because of the elevation. Because they assumed that Ecuador is very, most of it is very high mountainous, you know, nine thousand feet, eleven thousand feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.159479484618428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed any interest in any particular part of the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that we had a particular part of the world in mind. It's possible I might have said South America just because I felt like it was, you know, more closer to home in terms of what was happening politically. But I don't think it mattered very much. I wasn't, you know, wasn't specific about that. And they trained us in Bozeman, Montana, because of the elevation. Because they assumed that Ecuador is very, most of it is very high mountainous, you know, nine thousand feet, eleven thousand feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they want us to get acclimated to the altitude. And we ended up on the coast. So for our entire Peace Corps stay, so the acclimation didn't make a healthy bit of difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But where, so you were in Bozeman, Montana, for the summer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7327549829093645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that we had a particular part of the world in mind. It's possible I might have said South America just because I felt like it was, you know, more closer to home in terms of what was happening politically. But I don't think it mattered very much. I wasn't, you know, wasn't specific about that. And they trained us in Bozeman, Montana, because of the elevation. Because they assumed that Ecuador is very, most of it is very high mountainous, you know, nine thousand feet, eleven thousand feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they want us to get acclimated to the altitude. And we ended up on the coast. So for our entire Peace Corps stay, so the acclimation didn't make a healthy bit of difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But where, so you were in Bozeman, Montana, for the summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was magical. It was incredibly hard work. I mean, it was immersion language, you know, we had language classes every day for hours. And then on the weekends, we would have these hikes up into the mountains. I remember them just being exhausting. Like, I don't know if I can do this. And then they also had, I remember this so vividly, they sent us out one weekend. Everybody had to disperse into the countryside. They gave us cities to go to, but that was about it. You're going to go to this city and find a place to stay and find out something to do and then meet back here on Monday or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you some money to sustain yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.369727758788183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they want us to get acclimated to the altitude. And we ended up on the coast. So for our entire Peace Corps stay, so the acclimation didn't make a healthy bit of difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But where, so you were in Bozeman, Montana, for the summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was magical. It was incredibly hard work. I mean, it was immersion language, you know, we had language classes every day for hours. And then on the weekends, we would have these hikes up into the mountains. I remember them just being exhausting. Like, I don't know if I can do this. And then they also had, I remember this so vividly, they sent us out one weekend. Everybody had to disperse into the countryside. They gave us cities to go to, but that was about it. You're going to go to this city and find a place to stay and find out something to do and then meet back here on Monday or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you some money to sustain yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was very much money involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So find a place to stay didn't mean the Conrad Hilton?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.966364176431314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was magical. It was incredibly hard work. I mean, it was immersion language, you know, we had language classes every day for hours. And then on the weekends, we would have these hikes up into the mountains. I remember them just being exhausting. Like, I don't know if I can do this. And then they also had, I remember this so vividly, they sent us out one weekend. Everybody had to disperse into the countryside. They gave us cities to go to, but that was about it. You're going to go to this city and find a place to stay and find out something to do and then meet back here on Monday or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you some money to sustain yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was very much money involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So find a place to stay didn't mean the Conrad Hilton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Find a home to stay in. And I remember being assigned to Anaconda, Montana, which is an old mining town. I don't remember exactly how I got there, but I got there on the bus. But I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, were you traveling with Gary or did they split you up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.629293529368126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was very much money involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So find a place to stay didn't mean the Conrad Hilton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Find a home to stay in. And I remember being assigned to Anaconda, Montana, which is an old mining town. I don't remember exactly how I got there, but I got there on the bus. But I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, were you traveling with Gary or did they split you up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Yes. Everybody went separately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're totally on your own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.365881699297917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Find a home to stay in. And I remember being assigned to Anaconda, Montana, which is an old mining town. I don't remember exactly how I got there, but I got there on the bus. But I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, were you traveling with Gary or did they split you up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Yes. Everybody went separately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're totally on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a totally new place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.073201888108797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Yes. Everybody went separately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're totally on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a totally new place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally new place. They did speak English, however, they didn't speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were not expected to speak Spanish in Anaconda, Montana."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.859113209009775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a totally new place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally new place. They did speak English, however, they didn't speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were not expected to speak Spanish in Anaconda, Montana."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so let's hear more about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3990146766775275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally new place. They did speak English, however, they didn't speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were not expected to speak Spanish in Anaconda, Montana."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so let's hear more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had, so I found a Presbyterian minister, called him up and said, you know, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer. I'm in town. I need a place to stay. Can you help me out? And eventually they said, yeah, you can come over and spend the weekend with us. So I did, and I stayed up and helped them can produce or whatever it was. And then I was hitchhiking back to Bozeman, I remember that, and getting picked up by a trucker to take me back to Bozeman. So it was like fearless, absolutely fearless, that I could do this and it was quite an adventure. So that was one of the little extra training things. And then there was this overhanging always, the deselection, you know, twice at least in our three month stay, they would deselect people. So the fear of deselection was always sort of looming large, and then some people would be asked to leave. And you'd say, that's not right. You know, why are they asked to leave? And sometimes you were relieved because you felt like that was a good choice. But not always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not always. Did you have interviews with psychologists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.998905196308364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so let's hear more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had, so I found a Presbyterian minister, called him up and said, you know, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer. I'm in town. I need a place to stay. Can you help me out? And eventually they said, yeah, you can come over and spend the weekend with us. So I did, and I stayed up and helped them can produce or whatever it was. And then I was hitchhiking back to Bozeman, I remember that, and getting picked up by a trucker to take me back to Bozeman. So it was like fearless, absolutely fearless, that I could do this and it was quite an adventure. So that was one of the little extra training things. And then there was this overhanging always, the deselection, you know, twice at least in our three month stay, they would deselect people. So the fear of deselection was always sort of looming large, and then some people would be asked to leave. And you'd say, that's not right. You know, why are they asked to leave? And sometimes you were relieved because you felt like that was a good choice. But not always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not always. Did you have interviews with psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all kinds of tests."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.665450218120404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had, so I found a Presbyterian minister, called him up and said, you know, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer. I'm in town. I need a place to stay. Can you help me out? And eventually they said, yeah, you can come over and spend the weekend with us. So I did, and I stayed up and helped them can produce or whatever it was. And then I was hitchhiking back to Bozeman, I remember that, and getting picked up by a trucker to take me back to Bozeman. So it was like fearless, absolutely fearless, that I could do this and it was quite an adventure. So that was one of the little extra training things. And then there was this overhanging always, the deselection, you know, twice at least in our three month stay, they would deselect people. So the fear of deselection was always sort of looming large, and then some people would be asked to leave. And you'd say, that's not right. You know, why are they asked to leave? And sometimes you were relieved because you felt like that was a good choice. But not always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not always. Did you have interviews with psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all kinds of tests."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. To be sure we stand for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a group was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.40605579791156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all kinds of tests."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. To be sure we stand for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a group was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 40 people and there were some other married people in the group and some single people, a bunch of guys that were going to be working on this rural electrification project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you at a university doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.117839775457289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. To be sure we stand for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a group was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 40 people and there were some other married people in the group and some single people, a bunch of guys that were going to be working on this rural electrification project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you at a university doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were. It was, Bozeman was, I mean, at the University of Bozeman, we were housed on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.908710861619209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 40 people and there were some other married people in the group and some single people, a bunch of guys that were going to be working on this rural electrification project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you at a university doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were. It was, Bozeman was, I mean, at the University of Bozeman, we were housed on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you would stay, the single people would stay in the dorms. Married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.787456512910232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were. It was, Bozeman was, I mean, at the University of Bozeman, we were housed on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you would stay, the single people would stay in the dorms. Married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all in dorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room as married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.763840569900259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you would stay, the single people would stay in the dorms. Married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all in dorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room as married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we had our own room. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you talked about intensive language training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4042672998891765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all in dorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room as married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we had our own room. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you talked about intensive language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We had an immersion, Spanish immersion, as much as they could give us. They had Ecuadorian counterparts that were in Bozeman for the summer to help us with language. And I was much more able to mimic and pick up the sounds of Spanish than Gary was. So at the end of training, they said, well, you know, we sort of, it's conditional. You're going as conditional upon three extra weeks of language training in Flagstaff, Arizona, because his language skills weren't as strong as mine. So then we packed up and quite a contingent of us, probably 15 or 20 of us, went from Montana to Flagstaff, where we lived with Spanish speaking families and attended the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other people went on to Ecuador and began their work, people from your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.115852555432419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we had our own room. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you talked about intensive language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We had an immersion, Spanish immersion, as much as they could give us. They had Ecuadorian counterparts that were in Bozeman for the summer to help us with language. And I was much more able to mimic and pick up the sounds of Spanish than Gary was. So at the end of training, they said, well, you know, we sort of, it's conditional. You're going as conditional upon three extra weeks of language training in Flagstaff, Arizona, because his language skills weren't as strong as mine. So then we packed up and quite a contingent of us, probably 15 or 20 of us, went from Montana to Flagstaff, where we lived with Spanish speaking families and attended the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other people went on to Ecuador and began their work, people from your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those who needed a little more time with language went to Flagstaff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.439324142509158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those who needed a little more time with language went to Flagstaff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And there was lots of, you know, well, we couldn't. We had to pack our trunks for Ecuador before we left Montana. And yet we had these three extra weeks in Flagstaff and it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's problematic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was problematic. And I was rather outspoken about it. And I think there was, you know, I could have still been deselected at that time. I was walking a very fine line of my rebellion. My righteous indignation of this is not right, this is not fair. And, you know, I was like, just shut up and keep your head down, girl, if you want to go. So we made it. We did go and we did fly into Quito, and it was, you know, had the elevation to deal with initially. But then we were put on a bus very quickly for the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, before we go down to the coast. Between training and flying from Flagstaff to Quito, did you have any time back home to say goodbye to your mom or siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0436934916768426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And there was lots of, you know, well, we couldn't. We had to pack our trunks for Ecuador before we left Montana. And yet we had these three extra weeks in Flagstaff and it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's problematic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was problematic. And I was rather outspoken about it. And I think there was, you know, I could have still been deselected at that time. I was walking a very fine line of my rebellion. My righteous indignation of this is not right, this is not fair. And, you know, I was like, just shut up and keep your head down, girl, if you want to go. So we made it. We did go and we did fly into Quito, and it was, you know, had the elevation to deal with initially. But then we were put on a bus very quickly for the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, before we go down to the coast. Between training and flying from Flagstaff to Quito, did you have any time back home to say goodbye to your mom or siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I don't remember that we did. We may have, but frankly, I don't remember coming home first. We may have been home for a few days before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Well, what was the attitude now of your family? You've got three brothers. You've got a mom. Was your dad alive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.715214990752047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was problematic. And I was rather outspoken about it. And I think there was, you know, I could have still been deselected at that time. I was walking a very fine line of my rebellion. My righteous indignation of this is not right, this is not fair. And, you know, I was like, just shut up and keep your head down, girl, if you want to go. So we made it. We did go and we did fly into Quito, and it was, you know, had the elevation to deal with initially. But then we were put on a bus very quickly for the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, before we go down to the coast. Between training and flying from Flagstaff to Quito, did you have any time back home to say goodbye to your mom or siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I don't remember that we did. We may have, but frankly, I don't remember coming home first. We may have been home for a few days before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Well, what was the attitude now of your family? You've got three brothers. You've got a mom. Was your dad alive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think they just thought it was some of my sowing my wild oats kind of thing, you know, off she goes. Nobody else was that adventuresome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of your brothers had joined the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.507839493487032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But like I said, two of them were in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And had done overseas in Europe. It was before the Vietnam War had really heated up that they had done their work. So neither of those two brothers were at risk of going to Vietnam. But by the time I was finished with school, that was pretty real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh yeah. So we may have been home very briefly and then flown to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flown to Quito, right. So you arrive in Quito. The altitude is everything they told you would be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.119821659430036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And had done overseas in Europe. It was before the Vietnam War had really heated up that they had done their work. So neither of those two brothers were at risk of going to Vietnam. But by the time I was finished with school, that was pretty real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh yeah. So we may have been home very briefly and then flown to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flown to Quito, right. So you arrive in Quito. The altitude is everything they told you would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you, was there any further training or orientation in Quito, a few nights of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.799801843811151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh yeah. So we may have been home very briefly and then flown to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flown to Quito, right. So you arrive in Quito. The altitude is everything they told you would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you, was there any further training or orientation in Quito, a few nights of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was much orientation. I think it was kind of like, we got to get you guys on the bus and get you to your sites. And there was a regional rep in the site. But we didn't see him right away, it wasn't like he was there to welcome us or meet us or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was it that you found out that your site would be down on the coast and not up in the highlands?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.55533538201239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you, was there any further training or orientation in Quito, a few nights of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was much orientation. I think it was kind of like, we got to get you guys on the bus and get you to your sites. And there was a regional rep in the site. But we didn't see him right away, it wasn't like he was there to welcome us or meet us or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was it that you found out that your site would be down on the coast and not up in the highlands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably when we were still in Montana. Because there was one, there were a couple of returned Peace Corps volunteers that were training with our group. And one of the guys had been on the coast running a chicken project. And so he had talked to us a lot about the village that he'd been in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.394817091124878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that there was much orientation. I think it was kind of like, we got to get you guys on the bus and get you to your sites. And there was a regional rep in the site. But we didn't see him right away, it wasn't like he was there to welcome us or meet us or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was it that you found out that your site would be down on the coast and not up in the highlands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably when we were still in Montana. Because there was one, there were a couple of returned Peace Corps volunteers that were training with our group. And one of the guys had been on the coast running a chicken project. And so he had talked to us a lot about the village that he'd been in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um, and so we thought, well, that sounds like a cool place to go, you know, and following on the heels of another volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that where you went, in fact, to the very village that that trainer had been in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.5615025816356525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um, and so we thought, well, that sounds like a cool place to go, you know, and following on the heels of another volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that where you went, in fact, to the very village that that trainer had been in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, the first six months we were there, we were in Santa Elena, which is a tiny little village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Santa Elena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Off the Guayas peninsula, you know, about three hours bus ride from Guayaquil at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three hours away from Guayaquil. So Santa Elena, describe, tell us more about Santa Elena."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.95722509070628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, the first six months we were there, we were in Santa Elena, which is a tiny little village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Santa Elena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Off the Guayas peninsula, you know, about three hours bus ride from Guayaquil at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three hours away from Guayaquil. So Santa Elena, describe, tell us more about Santa Elena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santa Elena was a sleepy little town. Boy, I don't think they even had a hotel. When we got there, we got off the bus and asked for a place to stay, and they said, there aren't any. You have to go to Salinas. So we had to get on the next bus and go to Salinas. And then we did find a hotel there where we could stay for a few nights. And I think we went back and forth. And Gary kind of made connections with other Peace Corps volunteers that were working on this project. And we looked for housing in Santa Elena and were commuting back there looking for a place to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers already in Santa Elena?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2858056563403113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Off the Guayas peninsula, you know, about three hours bus ride from Guayaquil at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three hours away from Guayaquil. So Santa Elena, describe, tell us more about Santa Elena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santa Elena was a sleepy little town. Boy, I don't think they even had a hotel. When we got there, we got off the bus and asked for a place to stay, and they said, there aren't any. You have to go to Salinas. So we had to get on the next bus and go to Salinas. And then we did find a hotel there where we could stay for a few nights. And I think we went back and forth. And Gary kind of made connections with other Peace Corps volunteers that were working on this project. And we looked for housing in Santa Elena and were commuting back there looking for a place to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers already in Santa Elena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There were, well, there was at least one other person from our group that was assigned there, another engineer, and there had been volunteers there before. In fact, once we moved into our place there, within a week some Ecuadorian kids came by with this little dog and said the last volunteer left this for you. And so we had a dog from then on and ended up bringing her back home with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.539784062600346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santa Elena was a sleepy little town. Boy, I don't think they even had a hotel. When we got there, we got off the bus and asked for a place to stay, and they said, there aren't any. You have to go to Salinas. So we had to get on the next bus and go to Salinas. And then we did find a hotel there where we could stay for a few nights. And I think we went back and forth. And Gary kind of made connections with other Peace Corps volunteers that were working on this project. And we looked for housing in Santa Elena and were commuting back there looking for a place to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers already in Santa Elena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There were, well, there was at least one other person from our group that was assigned there, another engineer, and there had been volunteers there before. In fact, once we moved into our place there, within a week some Ecuadorian kids came by with this little dog and said the last volunteer left this for you. And so we had a dog from then on and ended up bringing her back home with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of our two-year stint. But yeah, it came complete with pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear about this home. What was your housing like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.821982291778162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There were, well, there was at least one other person from our group that was assigned there, another engineer, and there had been volunteers there before. In fact, once we moved into our place there, within a week some Ecuadorian kids came by with this little dog and said the last volunteer left this for you. And so we had a dog from then on and ended up bringing her back home with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of our two-year stint. But yeah, it came complete with pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear about this home. What was your housing like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the place we rented was a cement block housing. It actually was unfinished, which is not uncommon in Ecuador at that time at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With those wires sticking out of the top?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.135535879753513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of our two-year stint. But yeah, it came complete with pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear about this home. What was your housing like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the place we rented was a cement block housing. It actually was unfinished, which is not uncommon in Ecuador at that time at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With those wires sticking out of the top?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And there was a little tienda, a little store out front, and the people that ran the store lived upstairs. And so they had this sort of back section that they hadn't quite finished, but it had some running water. Oh I know, it had a water tank on the roof I think. So the truck from Guayaquil would come. It was very desert. It was extremely dry there. And so this big water truck would come out from Guayaquil and fill up roof tanks all over the little village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roof tank was on the top of the house that you lived in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4839287552816813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the place we rented was a cement block housing. It actually was unfinished, which is not uncommon in Ecuador at that time at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With those wires sticking out of the top?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And there was a little tienda, a little store out front, and the people that ran the store lived upstairs. And so they had this sort of back section that they hadn't quite finished, but it had some running water. Oh I know, it had a water tank on the roof I think. So the truck from Guayaquil would come. It was very desert. It was extremely dry there. And so this big water truck would come out from Guayaquil and fill up roof tanks all over the little village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roof tank was on the top of the house that you lived in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the top of the house the people, we were underneath. So like a two story building and then that there was a water tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm sorry, I didn't quite get it. So you've got, there's a tienda, a little store."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8710319503129793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And there was a little tienda, a little store out front, and the people that ran the store lived upstairs. And so they had this sort of back section that they hadn't quite finished, but it had some running water. Oh I know, it had a water tank on the roof I think. So the truck from Guayaquil would come. It was very desert. It was extremely dry there. And so this big water truck would come out from Guayaquil and fill up roof tanks all over the little village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roof tank was on the top of the house that you lived in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the top of the house the people, we were underneath. So like a two story building and then that there was a water tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm sorry, I didn't quite get it. So you've got, there's a tienda, a little store."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right on the street."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.301146611458866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the top of the house the people, we were underneath. So like a two story building and then that there was a water tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm sorry, I didn't quite get it. So you've got, there's a tienda, a little store."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right on the street."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you're behind this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.779051790509851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right on the street."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you're behind this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were behind that. And it was like one bedroom, kind of a bedroom. Living room with a wall divider didn't go all the way up, but it was mostly a divider. There was a small bathroom and it wasn't quite finished, but they said, we'll finish it up for you. So they got the plumbing all working, so we did have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a sink."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.198946433899835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you're behind this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were behind that. And it was like one bedroom, kind of a bedroom. Living room with a wall divider didn't go all the way up, but it was mostly a divider. There was a small bathroom and it wasn't quite finished, but they said, we'll finish it up for you. So they got the plumbing all working, so we did have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a sink."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have electricity. We had a little sink. I remember having two big wooden wash tubs out back, so I had to draw water and wash my clothes all by hand out in back of the house was a little fenced in yard. Um, and I know that we bought a refrigerator from some other volunteers that were leaving, I think, a very old refrigerator. So the first few months we were there, we didn't have a refrigerator, which was really a challenge, and I think it was a light bulb hanging from the ceiling kind of thing. But we did have electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And did you have a table where you could sit and chairs where you could sit down?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5543849265553713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were behind that. And it was like one bedroom, kind of a bedroom. Living room with a wall divider didn't go all the way up, but it was mostly a divider. There was a small bathroom and it wasn't quite finished, but they said, we'll finish it up for you. So they got the plumbing all working, so we did have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a sink."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have electricity. We had a little sink. I remember having two big wooden wash tubs out back, so I had to draw water and wash my clothes all by hand out in back of the house was a little fenced in yard. Um, and I know that we bought a refrigerator from some other volunteers that were leaving, I think, a very old refrigerator. So the first few months we were there, we didn't have a refrigerator, which was really a challenge, and I think it was a light bulb hanging from the ceiling kind of thing. But we did have electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And did you have a table where you could sit and chairs where you could sit down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We bought a table. We went to the market, bought a table, bought chairs. Yeah, there was nothing, no furnishings in it at all. I'm sure we bought a bed, a lot pots and pans. And the Peace Corps had given us an allowance for a settling in. I think they had a settling in allowance. So we went out and bought what we needed for. And then, um, I would walk to the local market every day and get what we needed for food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Just enough for that one day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1535616377226807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We bought a table. We went to the market, bought a table, bought chairs. Yeah, there was nothing, no furnishings in it at all. I'm sure we bought a bed, a lot pots and pans. And the Peace Corps had given us an allowance for a settling in. I think they had a settling in allowance. So we went out and bought what we needed for. And then, um, I would walk to the local market every day and get what we needed for food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Just enough for that one day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As best I could communicate my needs, which was very scary and very frustrating because my Spanish, after three months, was not very good. And I remember trying to buy bananas or something and or chicken and they were giving me bananas, or bananas and they gave me chicken. It's like, guineos and they give me gallinas or something like this. So the words were similar enough that I didn't know which it was, and I think I had a couple of pickpocket experiences in the market. I felt like I was a real target, you know, because I really looked different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blond hair."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't speak the language. Well, I wasn't that blond, but I couldn't speak the language and I was very fair skinned and, you know, I just stood out in my clothing and all of this. And Gary would go off to work and he had a counterpart, he had an Ecuadorian counterpart, so he had a very prescriptive kind of job. I mean, he was translating plans. They were working off of an old PT boat that I think that was out in the harbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was translating?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.503957375247423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As best I could communicate my needs, which was very scary and very frustrating because my Spanish, after three months, was not very good. And I remember trying to buy bananas or something and or chicken and they were giving me bananas, or bananas and they gave me chicken. It's like, guineos and they give me gallinas or something like this. So the words were similar enough that I didn't know which it was, and I think I had a couple of pickpocket experiences in the market. I felt like I was a real target, you know, because I really looked different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blond hair."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't speak the language. Well, I wasn't that blond, but I couldn't speak the language and I was very fair skinned and, you know, I just stood out in my clothing and all of this. And Gary would go off to work and he had a counterpart, he had an Ecuadorian counterpart, so he had a very prescriptive kind of job. I mean, he was translating plans. They were working off of an old PT boat that I think that was out in the harbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was translating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, translating plans and getting this electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From English into Spanish? But his Spanish was a little weak."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8932859724971367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't speak the language. Well, I wasn't that blond, but I couldn't speak the language and I was very fair skinned and, you know, I just stood out in my clothing and all of this. And Gary would go off to work and he had a counterpart, he had an Ecuadorian counterpart, so he had a very prescriptive kind of job. I mean, he was translating plans. They were working off of an old PT boat that I think that was out in the harbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was translating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, translating plans and getting this electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From English into Spanish? But his Spanish was a little weak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's technical. He understood. Yeah, yeah. So he had somebody that he could work with there. And I was sort of like, what do I do now? You know, who do I talk to? And so it was a very scary time for me, and it took me a long time to connect with the local people. I could figure out what was it I was going to do here that was going to be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.325873302774596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, translating plans and getting this electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From English into Spanish? But his Spanish was a little weak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's technical. He understood. Yeah, yeah. So he had somebody that he could work with there. And I was sort of like, what do I do now? You know, who do I talk to? And so it was a very scary time for me, and it took me a long time to connect with the local people. I could figure out what was it I was going to do here that was going to be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health was good at that point, early in our adventure. My health was fairly good most of the time we were there. Gary was quite sick for a while at one point, but I didn't get really bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do about water, making sure that the water was okay to drink?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8065258919717735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's technical. He understood. Yeah, yeah. So he had somebody that he could work with there. And I was sort of like, what do I do now? You know, who do I talk to? And so it was a very scary time for me, and it took me a long time to connect with the local people. I could figure out what was it I was going to do here that was going to be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health was good at that point, early in our adventure. My health was fairly good most of the time we were there. Gary was quite sick for a while at one point, but I didn't get really bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do about water, making sure that the water was okay to drink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we boiled it, and I think we used iodine tablets for a long time. Yeah, that was kind of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did all of your neighbors have flush toilets or were people just?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.933982582681202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we boiled it, and I think we used iodine tablets for a long time. Yeah, that was kind of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did all of your neighbors have flush toilets or were people just?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were outhouses and they were using the outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close were you to the ocean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.48220286964578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were outhouses and they were using the outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close were you to the ocean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, five miles?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five miles. So it's not like people would squat outside and wait for the tide."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.091336521828644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close were you to the ocean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, five miles?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five miles. So it's not like people would squat outside and wait for the tide."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't doing that. No, not that so much. And of course, there were lots of animals running, wandering through, pigs and cows. Not too many cows. Burros. I remember burros and dogs and things like that. Chickens that were kind of just around. I don't know who owned them or who would collect the eggs or put them in the pot. But they just sort of were around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the temperature in Quito would have been cool because of the elevation. But down in Santa Elena, in the desert."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.816464841763758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't doing that. No, not that so much. And of course, there were lots of animals running, wandering through, pigs and cows. Not too many cows. Burros. I remember burros and dogs and things like that. Chickens that were kind of just around. I don't know who owned them or who would collect the eggs or put them in the pot. But they just sort of were around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the temperature in Quito would have been cool because of the elevation. But down in Santa Elena, in the desert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got there. When we got there, it was the cool season. So it was in the 60s, 70s, kind of overcast, gray days. And then it got extremely hot in a couple of three months. So I remember making connections with, I think, a local priest, and he would take me in his truck out to some very remote villages out along the coast. You'd just drive. People had houses up on stilts. There weren't so many in Santa Elena, but among these villages along the coast, they would be up on stilts. And bamboo houses, not cement houses. And, you know, chickens and things running underneath the house. And I was teaching people how to make these ovens out of oil cans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The oil can ovens. Because all they had really was like kerosene stoves or charcoal. Not so much charcoal, I don't think there was very much wood. I think it was mostly kerosene. And, um, so I had learned in Montana I think how to make these oil can ovens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how you learned that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.24051649084862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got there. When we got there, it was the cool season. So it was in the 60s, 70s, kind of overcast, gray days. And then it got extremely hot in a couple of three months. So I remember making connections with, I think, a local priest, and he would take me in his truck out to some very remote villages out along the coast. You'd just drive. People had houses up on stilts. There weren't so many in Santa Elena, but among these villages along the coast, they would be up on stilts. And bamboo houses, not cement houses. And, you know, chickens and things running underneath the house. And I was teaching people how to make these ovens out of oil cans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The oil can ovens. Because all they had really was like kerosene stoves or charcoal. Not so much charcoal, I don't think there was very much wood. I think it was mostly kerosene. And, um, so I had learned in Montana I think how to make these oil can ovens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how you learned that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's where I learned it. And so that, well, and I was teaching nutrition, child, you know, child development nutrition kinds of things as best I could given the language barriers. I think a lot of people came out of curiosity as much as for what I had to say, but just the fact that the gringa was here and, you know, let's go see her. Let's go spend some time with her. And there were some established credit unions, so that would bring people together. You know, so it might be people that would come in for credit union services, but then I could offer childhood classes or nutrition classes or things like that. So again, very naive on my part in terms of what nutrition was available and what. I mean, I knew what worked here, but I didn't necessarily know what worked there and I was learning what was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the needs of the people then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7116849898318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The oil can ovens. Because all they had really was like kerosene stoves or charcoal. Not so much charcoal, I don't think there was very much wood. I think it was mostly kerosene. And, um, so I had learned in Montana I think how to make these oil can ovens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how you learned that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's where I learned it. And so that, well, and I was teaching nutrition, child, you know, child development nutrition kinds of things as best I could given the language barriers. I think a lot of people came out of curiosity as much as for what I had to say, but just the fact that the gringa was here and, you know, let's go see her. Let's go spend some time with her. And there were some established credit unions, so that would bring people together. You know, so it might be people that would come in for credit union services, but then I could offer childhood classes or nutrition classes or things like that. So again, very naive on my part in terms of what nutrition was available and what. I mean, I knew what worked here, but I didn't necessarily know what worked there and I was learning what was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the needs of the people then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What were the needs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of their nutritional, what was available for their?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.235205544257555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's where I learned it. And so that, well, and I was teaching nutrition, child, you know, child development nutrition kinds of things as best I could given the language barriers. I think a lot of people came out of curiosity as much as for what I had to say, but just the fact that the gringa was here and, you know, let's go see her. Let's go spend some time with her. And there were some established credit unions, so that would bring people together. You know, so it might be people that would come in for credit union services, but then I could offer childhood classes or nutrition classes or things like that. So again, very naive on my part in terms of what nutrition was available and what. I mean, I knew what worked here, but I didn't necessarily know what worked there and I was learning what was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the needs of the people then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What were the needs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of their nutritional, what was available for their?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was getting them to do things like boil water so that kids don't have amoebas, because a lot of kids had amoebas and dysentery in Ecuador, both places that we worked. And, you know, I mean, I think they were eating. There was some fruits available. A lot of stuff was trucked in because, again, this was very desert. So it wasn't like people had gardens. They ate a lot of fish because we were near the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've got the protein there, but the vegetables and the clean water."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.816895049175061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What were the needs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of their nutritional, what was available for their?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was getting them to do things like boil water so that kids don't have amoebas, because a lot of kids had amoebas and dysentery in Ecuador, both places that we worked. And, you know, I mean, I think they were eating. There was some fruits available. A lot of stuff was trucked in because, again, this was very desert. So it wasn't like people had gardens. They ate a lot of fish because we were near the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've got the protein there, but the vegetables and the clean water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even fruit, and that was like you had to go the market to get that. So you had to have money to buy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money to buy it, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.463216721305623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was getting them to do things like boil water so that kids don't have amoebas, because a lot of kids had amoebas and dysentery in Ecuador, both places that we worked. And, you know, I mean, I think they were eating. There was some fruits available. A lot of stuff was trucked in because, again, this was very desert. So it wasn't like people had gardens. They ate a lot of fish because we were near the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've got the protein there, but the vegetables and the clean water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even fruit, and that was like you had to go the market to get that. So you had to have money to buy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money to buy it, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the problem of getting the water bacteria free involves boiling the water and then there's the fuel to boil that water."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.181351912561803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even fruit, and that was like you had to go the market to get that. So you had to have money to buy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money to buy it, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the problem of getting the water bacteria free involves boiling the water and then there's the fuel to boil that water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, kerosene fuel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kerosene is something people had to buy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.979279902846448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the problem of getting the water bacteria free involves boiling the water and then there's the fuel to boil that water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, kerosene fuel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kerosene is something people had to buy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you have this oil can oven, how does that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.865866558718276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, kerosene fuel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kerosene is something people had to buy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you have this oil can oven, how does that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sat on top of the kerosene stove. So they had these little two burner kerosene stoves and there was a hole in the bottom. I don't, I have pictures of it, but. And you would set this oven on there and the heat would go up into the oven. So I would teach them how to bake things in it, because first they couldn't bake because they didn't have anything to bake, but maybe they didn't need to know how to bake. I don't know, but I know how to bake, so I could teach them all kinds of things that they could bake in the oven. Um, so that was part of what I did initially when I first worked there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people get their income to buy things like kerosene and flush toilets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.850962843020307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you have this oil can oven, how does that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sat on top of the kerosene stove. So they had these little two burner kerosene stoves and there was a hole in the bottom. I don't, I have pictures of it, but. And you would set this oven on there and the heat would go up into the oven. So I would teach them how to bake things in it, because first they couldn't bake because they didn't have anything to bake, but maybe they didn't need to know how to bake. I don't know, but I know how to bake, so I could teach them all kinds of things that they could bake in the oven. Um, so that was part of what I did initially when I first worked there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people get their income to buy things like kerosene and flush toilets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I think they, you know, lots of people have like little tiendas, so they would sell a few things. Sell their panaderías, or they would sell a little bread. Or walk the streets, I mean, there's a lot of street vendor stuff. Fruits, vegetables, brooms, you know, household things. And then there was the market. So I think there were a lot of small business kinds of things where people would get a little money. They'd go down to the tienda and get a can of tuna fish or a can of canned milk or something like that. They didn't have a lot. I remember going into Guayaquil to a grocery store and it was like, oh, I think I've died and gone to heaven. You know, it was like, oh, all these things were available, but not in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, not where you were. So you had a Peace Corps allowance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.945514270022564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sat on top of the kerosene stove. So they had these little two burner kerosene stoves and there was a hole in the bottom. I don't, I have pictures of it, but. And you would set this oven on there and the heat would go up into the oven. So I would teach them how to bake things in it, because first they couldn't bake because they didn't have anything to bake, but maybe they didn't need to know how to bake. I don't know, but I know how to bake, so I could teach them all kinds of things that they could bake in the oven. Um, so that was part of what I did initially when I first worked there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people get their income to buy things like kerosene and flush toilets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I think they, you know, lots of people have like little tiendas, so they would sell a few things. Sell their panaderías, or they would sell a little bread. Or walk the streets, I mean, there's a lot of street vendor stuff. Fruits, vegetables, brooms, you know, household things. And then there was the market. So I think there were a lot of small business kinds of things where people would get a little money. They'd go down to the tienda and get a can of tuna fish or a can of canned milk or something like that. They didn't have a lot. I remember going into Guayaquil to a grocery store and it was like, oh, I think I've died and gone to heaven. You know, it was like, oh, all these things were available, but not in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, not where you were. So you had a Peace Corps allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would come to you once a month or so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.161682522247293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I think they, you know, lots of people have like little tiendas, so they would sell a few things. Sell their panaderías, or they would sell a little bread. Or walk the streets, I mean, there's a lot of street vendor stuff. Fruits, vegetables, brooms, you know, household things. And then there was the market. So I think there were a lot of small business kinds of things where people would get a little money. They'd go down to the tienda and get a can of tuna fish or a can of canned milk or something like that. They didn't have a lot. I remember going into Guayaquil to a grocery store and it was like, oh, I think I've died and gone to heaven. You know, it was like, oh, all these things were available, but not in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, not where you were. So you had a Peace Corps allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would come to you once a month or so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And we sort of lived on one allowance and saved the other because we could do it. I mean, just didn't cost as much of anything to live down there. And at that time, we were not allowed to come home at all. And of course, there wasn't any electronics communication except a ham radio. Once in a while, we could connect with a ham radio person to call home and talk to people here. So we put our money aside for our trip, a trip when we'd been in country longer, and that was a huge adventure that we took. So I'm saving that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was maybe at the halfway point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.290758358052548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would come to you once a month or so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And we sort of lived on one allowance and saved the other because we could do it. I mean, just didn't cost as much of anything to live down there. And at that time, we were not allowed to come home at all. And of course, there wasn't any electronics communication except a ham radio. Once in a while, we could connect with a ham radio person to call home and talk to people here. So we put our money aside for our trip, a trip when we'd been in country longer, and that was a huge adventure that we took. So I'm saving that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was maybe at the halfway point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a little past halfway point and we took a month off and went to Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that kind of standard that Peace Corps volunteers would take a month off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.54528706450283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And we sort of lived on one allowance and saved the other because we could do it. I mean, just didn't cost as much of anything to live down there. And at that time, we were not allowed to come home at all. And of course, there wasn't any electronics communication except a ham radio. Once in a while, we could connect with a ham radio person to call home and talk to people here. So we put our money aside for our trip, a trip when we'd been in country longer, and that was a huge adventure that we took. So I'm saving that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was maybe at the halfway point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a little past halfway point and we took a month off and went to Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that kind of standard that Peace Corps volunteers would take a month off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.716985627225366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a little past halfway point and we took a month off and went to Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that kind of standard that Peace Corps volunteers would take a month off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a lot of people did. And traveled all the way down to southern Chile and Argentina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so is that what you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.018872919139294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a lot of people did. And traveled all the way down to southern Chile and Argentina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so is that what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Down to southern Chile?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.243192132376993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a lot of people did. And traveled all the way down to southern Chile and Argentina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so is that what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Down to southern Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I remember sleeping in the Machu Picchu ruins and listening. Somebody had a radio. I think there was an election. Nixon was being elected or something, I think it was Nixon. But we were in the ruins with some other camper kind of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just let you sleep there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.213817447379002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I remember sleeping in the Machu Picchu ruins and listening. Somebody had a radio. I think there was an election. Nixon was being elected or something, I think it was Nixon. But we were in the ruins with some other camper kind of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just let you sleep there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just slept there. You know, there was a small hotel, but of course we didn't have money for that. And so we just slept in the ruins that night and thought it was a great adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of great adventures. Yeah. So that allowance that we had, even though it was like fifty dollars a piece a month or something, it wasn't very much, but we didn't need very much. And we knew how to travel 4th class by the time we'd been in country a year or more, a year and a half. And so we really did take very local transportation. I mean, it was pretty uncomfortable at times. And, you know, 12 hours on a train sitting bolt upright in the seat. There wasn't any beds or, um, but we were young and foolish, and that's what we did. We went to Lake Titicaca and saw the reed boats there and bought some art along the way. And we had we had quite an adventure. I remember my husband took his fishing pole because he was a big fisherman, and when we were in Chile, we got off this bus. He went over to the bank, dug up some worms, threw his line in the water and had fabulous trout. I mean, he caught two or three trout in quick succession, and we took them with us that night and took them to wherever we stayed and they cooked up the trout for us. So there were just so many little things like that. But, you know, we just were like living in the moment off the land, off whatever goodness we could find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet Peace Corps volunteers along the way as you went up and down the coast from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.015352719310002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just slept there. You know, there was a small hotel, but of course we didn't have money for that. And so we just slept in the ruins that night and thought it was a great adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of great adventures. Yeah. So that allowance that we had, even though it was like fifty dollars a piece a month or something, it wasn't very much, but we didn't need very much. And we knew how to travel 4th class by the time we'd been in country a year or more, a year and a half. And so we really did take very local transportation. I mean, it was pretty uncomfortable at times. And, you know, 12 hours on a train sitting bolt upright in the seat. There wasn't any beds or, um, but we were young and foolish, and that's what we did. We went to Lake Titicaca and saw the reed boats there and bought some art along the way. And we had we had quite an adventure. I remember my husband took his fishing pole because he was a big fisherman, and when we were in Chile, we got off this bus. He went over to the bank, dug up some worms, threw his line in the water and had fabulous trout. I mean, he caught two or three trout in quick succession, and we took them with us that night and took them to wherever we stayed and they cooked up the trout for us. So there were just so many little things like that. But, you know, we just were like living in the moment off the land, off whatever goodness we could find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet Peace Corps volunteers along the way as you went up and down the coast from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some. We did. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Starting the second half of tape one here. We were talking about your holiday travels at the one-year point, where you and your husband were going down along as far as Chile. And I asked if you had, if you were running into Peace Corps volunteers along the way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9572255793950655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some. We did. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Starting the second half of tape one here. We were talking about your holiday travels at the one-year point, where you and your husband were going down along as far as Chile. And I asked if you had, if you were running into Peace Corps volunteers along the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I don't think we stayed with Peace Corps volunteers or ran into them very much. So it was, I think, the hardest thing about that trip. One of the hard things about it was that as soon as we left Ecuador, it felt like the standard of living just kept going up as we went farther and farther away. We'd sort of gotten used to this is the way things are. And even in Bolivia, which I think is poorer than Ecuador now at least, I mean, maybe it was then, but all the other countries, it was just like a step up and then another step up. And by the time we got to southern Chile, it was like the U.S. in 1935, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had cars and they had gardens and it was beautiful. Yeah, so it was a little hard coming back, you know, to retrace your steps and going down, down, down into this lower standard of less convenience. I mean, we were on, we took some busses that were like riding on airplanes. They had stewards on the busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5080284215500726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I don't think we stayed with Peace Corps volunteers or ran into them very much. So it was, I think, the hardest thing about that trip. One of the hard things about it was that as soon as we left Ecuador, it felt like the standard of living just kept going up as we went farther and farther away. We'd sort of gotten used to this is the way things are. And even in Bolivia, which I think is poorer than Ecuador now at least, I mean, maybe it was then, but all the other countries, it was just like a step up and then another step up. And by the time we got to southern Chile, it was like the U.S. in 1935, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had cars and they had gardens and it was beautiful. Yeah, so it was a little hard coming back, you know, to retrace your steps and going down, down, down into this lower standard of less convenience. I mean, we were on, we took some busses that were like riding on airplanes. They had stewards on the busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They served meals on the busses. The seats reclined on the busses. Holy smokes. We were used to riding on these chicken busses that were open and people are just smashed in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you can see the street through the boards of the floor."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.120031579500081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had cars and they had gardens and it was beautiful. Yeah, so it was a little hard coming back, you know, to retrace your steps and going down, down, down into this lower standard of less convenience. I mean, we were on, we took some busses that were like riding on airplanes. They had stewards on the busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They served meals on the busses. The seats reclined on the busses. Holy smokes. We were used to riding on these chicken busses that were open and people are just smashed in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you can see the street through the boards of the floor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, it was like, wow, OK. It was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you come back. Did it feel like coming home when you got back to, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.688923977222312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They served meals on the busses. The seats reclined on the busses. Holy smokes. We were used to riding on these chicken busses that were open and people are just smashed in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you can see the street through the boards of the floor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, it was like, wow, OK. It was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you come back. Did it feel like coming home when you got back to, uh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was hard coming back, you know, we had some time away, had a different perspective, and were already on the last part of our stay. So I think it was, um, you know, hard. And we had changed sites by this time. We had left Santa Elena and been moved to Machala I think, again, which is also a coastal town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that move happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.209915530247013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, it was like, wow, OK. It was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you come back. Did it feel like coming home when you got back to, uh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was hard coming back, you know, we had some time away, had a different perspective, and were already on the last part of our stay. So I think it was, um, you know, hard. And we had changed sites by this time. We had left Santa Elena and been moved to Machala I think, again, which is also a coastal town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that move happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About six months into our stay. I think that they had more need of Gary's engineering skills, and so they moved us to Machala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Machala. How far away was that from Santa Elena?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.56657281138557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was hard coming back, you know, we had some time away, had a different perspective, and were already on the last part of our stay. So I think it was, um, you know, hard. And we had changed sites by this time. We had left Santa Elena and been moved to Machala I think, again, which is also a coastal town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that move happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About six months into our stay. I think that they had more need of Gary's engineering skills, and so they moved us to Machala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Machala. How far away was that from Santa Elena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was across the Guayas Bay, so instead of going out, this is a very dry peninsula, we would take this ferry boat across to Machala, which was not too far from the Peruvian border. But it was very humid and tropical and lush and bananas everywhere. I mean, we kept stocks of bananas in the house. So in Santa Elena, it was very dry. We didn't have anything like that. But I remember that there was a lot more. And we lived on the second floor in this place and it was more finished. But it also had a water tank on the roof and we had gravity fed showers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9628586793173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About six months into our stay. I think that they had more need of Gary's engineering skills, and so they moved us to Machala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Machala. How far away was that from Santa Elena?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was across the Guayas Bay, so instead of going out, this is a very dry peninsula, we would take this ferry boat across to Machala, which was not too far from the Peruvian border. But it was very humid and tropical and lush and bananas everywhere. I mean, we kept stocks of bananas in the house. So in Santa Elena, it was very dry. We didn't have anything like that. But I remember that there was a lot more. And we lived on the second floor in this place and it was more finished. But it also had a water tank on the roof and we had gravity fed showers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt like a step up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps staff, what was your experience of Peace Corps staff coming out to visit you and lending a hand? Let's talk about Santa Elena first and then Machala."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.403176310352555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was across the Guayas Bay, so instead of going out, this is a very dry peninsula, we would take this ferry boat across to Machala, which was not too far from the Peruvian border. But it was very humid and tropical and lush and bananas everywhere. I mean, we kept stocks of bananas in the house. So in Santa Elena, it was very dry. We didn't have anything like that. But I remember that there was a lot more. And we lived on the second floor in this place and it was more finished. But it also had a water tank on the roof and we had gravity fed showers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt like a step up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps staff, what was your experience of Peace Corps staff coming out to visit you and lending a hand? Let's talk about Santa Elena first and then Machala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not. They were pretty absent. When we went into Guayaquil, we could go into the Peace Corps office and ask for things or get help, or we knew who our area rep was. But as far as coming out and helping us settle in or make connections, the person that was there at that time was absolutely no help at all. And I think it was the same person that we had even though we changed sites. It was still the same region, the southern region of Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the same, not much help person when you were settling into Machala."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.89241812261395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt like a step up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps staff, what was your experience of Peace Corps staff coming out to visit you and lending a hand? Let's talk about Santa Elena first and then Machala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not. They were pretty absent. When we went into Guayaquil, we could go into the Peace Corps office and ask for things or get help, or we knew who our area rep was. But as far as coming out and helping us settle in or make connections, the person that was there at that time was absolutely no help at all. And I think it was the same person that we had even though we changed sites. It was still the same region, the southern region of Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the same, not much help person when you were settling into Machala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were really kind of on our own. And it was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done and, you know, I learned a lot about what I could do and couldn't do. But I also heard from other volunteers like, oh no, our guy met us at the thing and he helped us to get to a house and he helped us. And I was like, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, so this is an individual. It wasn't like Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.324909025126612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not. They were pretty absent. When we went into Guayaquil, we could go into the Peace Corps office and ask for things or get help, or we knew who our area rep was. But as far as coming out and helping us settle in or make connections, the person that was there at that time was absolutely no help at all. And I think it was the same person that we had even though we changed sites. It was still the same region, the southern region of Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the same, not much help person when you were settling into Machala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were really kind of on our own. And it was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done and, you know, I learned a lot about what I could do and couldn't do. But I also heard from other volunteers like, oh no, our guy met us at the thing and he helped us to get to a house and he helped us. And I was like, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, so this is an individual. It wasn't like Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was totally individual. And he maybe was at the end of his tether with, you know, his time of Peace Corps. I don't know. But, yeah, there were a lot of very different experiences. I mean, we had good friends that lived in Quito and brought their fine china and hung out with the embassy people. So there was quite a range of people had and had access to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it seems like your husband had a job that was cut out for him. He had a counterpart and therefore he didn't have to figure it out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.805454472362902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were really kind of on our own. And it was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done and, you know, I learned a lot about what I could do and couldn't do. But I also heard from other volunteers like, oh no, our guy met us at the thing and he helped us to get to a house and he helped us. And I was like, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, so this is an individual. It wasn't like Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was totally individual. And he maybe was at the end of his tether with, you know, his time of Peace Corps. I don't know. But, yeah, there were a lot of very different experiences. I mean, we had good friends that lived in Quito and brought their fine china and hung out with the embassy people. So there was quite a range of people had and had access to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it seems like your husband had a job that was cut out for him. He had a counterpart and therefore he didn't have to figure it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But um, you, on the other hand, had to find your work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.339393858181002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was totally individual. And he maybe was at the end of his tether with, you know, his time of Peace Corps. I don't know. But, yeah, there were a lot of very different experiences. I mean, we had good friends that lived in Quito and brought their fine china and hung out with the embassy people. So there was quite a range of people had and had access to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it seems like your husband had a job that was cut out for him. He had a counterpart and therefore he didn't have to figure it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But um, you, on the other hand, had to find your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd like to talk about your work a little bit more. I'm sorry, we're backtracking so much, but let's go back to Santa Elena again. How did you find? You talked about women coming to the credit union. And while they're there, you kind of corralled them, would kind of catch them when they were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.821548731312224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But um, you, on the other hand, had to find your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd like to talk about your work a little bit more. I'm sorry, we're backtracking so much, but let's go back to Santa Elena again. How did you find? You talked about women coming to the credit union. And while they're there, you kind of corralled them, would kind of catch them when they were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or they were sort of used to coming there as a place to gather and a place to come for classes. And they may have had contact with the previous Peace Corps volunteer or. So that was part of what I did. I mean, a lot of my time that first three months was just like making a living. I mean, getting the house in order, shopping, cooking, cleaning, you know, there wasn't a lot of opportunity. And in that time, I got to know people a little bit more. And then I started traveling out to these very rural, even more rural community places, um, and would go out and spend a day and hang out with people in their villages and do some of what they needed and what I could do, what I had to offer. And then come back. So it was pretty loose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Machala, was that a similar thing in terms of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.952529297916326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or they were sort of used to coming there as a place to gather and a place to come for classes. And they may have had contact with the previous Peace Corps volunteer or. So that was part of what I did. I mean, a lot of my time that first three months was just like making a living. I mean, getting the house in order, shopping, cooking, cleaning, you know, there wasn't a lot of opportunity. And in that time, I got to know people a little bit more. And then I started traveling out to these very rural, even more rural community places, um, and would go out and spend a day and hang out with people in their villages and do some of what they needed and what I could do, what I had to offer. And then come back. So it was pretty loose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Machala, was that a similar thing in terms of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Machala is a much bigger city and there were other Peace Corps volunteers there, more volunteers. I remember teaching English as a second language there because they definitely wanted that. I taught in a high school. I taught an art class in the high school one semester at least, or maybe a year. The teacher wasn't available. And I'd never done that before in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd never done it in English, so it was very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Buying food in the market in Spanish is difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.61392144212925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Machala is a much bigger city and there were other Peace Corps volunteers there, more volunteers. I remember teaching English as a second language there because they definitely wanted that. I taught in a high school. I taught an art class in the high school one semester at least, or maybe a year. The teacher wasn't available. And I'd never done that before in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd never done it in English, so it was very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Buying food in the market in Spanish is difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And teaching in Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0154682690325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd never done it in English, so it was very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Buying food in the market in Spanish is difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And teaching in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was difficult enough. And we ran a summer program, worked with another volunteer who was a single woman down there. And she was, we ran a summer camp for kids up in the mountains. So we took a whole busload of kids and then we got mattresses for them and they were on top of the bus and we took them up to Loja, I think, but out of the heat of the coast. And there was an old church up there that had been sort of not an old, um, I don't know what, was the residence for the nuns, but there wasn't hardly anybody in it anymore. It was pretty basic, pretty kind of crude. But we housed the kids there. And Gary went with me when we did that because I remember that he and another volunteer built soapbox derbies with the boys. And this was a very hilly town. And so at the end of their time, there are two weeks at camp or whatever it was, we had these soapbox derby races down the hill, and I don't even know how they stopped those things. They must have had brakes of some kind.\n\nBut again, so we were doing, playing baseball with the kids, doing games, doing nutrition. They all went through, you know, physical checks. So we had a doctor come in and check them. And I think all the kids had amoebas and a lot of them had lice. So we had to talk about hygiene and boiling water and things like this, probably none of which made any difference when they went back home. But at least while we were there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you don't know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.596049792764058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't know. I think that was our situations were so different. It would have been very hard for them to anticipate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. For the people going to embassy dinners in Quito, and for you in Santa Elena."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, out in the boonies where there is very little resource. You know, no refrigerator for a long time and barely running water, we were which you are grateful for. So yeah, I I don't think they could have predicted all of the what ifs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did rely on our Peace Corps connections more in Machala because there are more volunteers around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your social life, you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9956108808489526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, out in the boonies where there is very little resource. You know, no refrigerator for a long time and barely running water, we were which you are grateful for. So yeah, I I don't think they could have predicted all of the what ifs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did rely on our Peace Corps connections more in Machala because there are more volunteers around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your social life, you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did more social with them and with the community too. But it would be like if we were teaching English as a second language, you know, you'd be making connections with all kinds of people in the community who would come in for classes, and I think the classes were free. And so we would do some social things with them. I remember there were parties, there were gatherings or events where we mixed or were just with Ecuadorians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have a chance to make personal friends with Ecuadorians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.439567645387725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did rely on our Peace Corps connections more in Machala because there are more volunteers around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your social life, you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did more social with them and with the community too. But it would be like if we were teaching English as a second language, you know, you'd be making connections with all kinds of people in the community who would come in for classes, and I think the classes were free. And so we would do some social things with them. I remember there were parties, there were gatherings or events where we mixed or were just with Ecuadorians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have a chance to make personal friends with Ecuadorians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that I, I mean, I did have friends, but they weren't friends that spanned my return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.9328529393196945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did more social with them and with the community too. But it would be like if we were teaching English as a second language, you know, you'd be making connections with all kinds of people in the community who would come in for classes, and I think the classes were free. And so we would do some social things with them. I remember there were parties, there were gatherings or events where we mixed or were just with Ecuadorians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have a chance to make personal friends with Ecuadorians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that I, I mean, I did have friends, but they weren't friends that spanned my return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were friends in Ecuador while I was in Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you have the sense that, um, being there as part of a married couple made things easier for you? Did that give you a road in with other women because they saw you as a married woman?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.369836599244105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that I, I mean, I did have friends, but they weren't friends that spanned my return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were friends in Ecuador while I was in Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you have the sense that, um, being there as part of a married couple made things easier for you? Did that give you a road in with other women because they saw you as a married woman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it made some things easier and some things harder. I mean, because I always had an English-speaking person to talk to, I think it took me longer to develop my Spanish skills. On the other hand, it was absolutely wonderful that I had someone I could vent my frustrations and my fears and my anxiety with. Someone when he came home at the end of the day and I'd barely made it to the market and back and cooked dinner, you know, and struggled with my Spanish all the way. You know, I had someone right there that could listen to that and be supportive. Um, but I think it also, when I saw some of the volunteers that were completely out on their own, their Spanish skills were like much better. And I have to say that the Spanish that we learned in Montana was a really wonderful, clear, beautiful. Um, the Spanish that's spoken in the mountains of Ecuador and the Spanish that's spoken on the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a different thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.855373999160117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were friends in Ecuador while I was in Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you have the sense that, um, being there as part of a married couple made things easier for you? Did that give you a road in with other women because they saw you as a married woman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it made some things easier and some things harder. I mean, because I always had an English-speaking person to talk to, I think it took me longer to develop my Spanish skills. On the other hand, it was absolutely wonderful that I had someone I could vent my frustrations and my fears and my anxiety with. Someone when he came home at the end of the day and I'd barely made it to the market and back and cooked dinner, you know, and struggled with my Spanish all the way. You know, I had someone right there that could listen to that and be supportive. Um, but I think it also, when I saw some of the volunteers that were completely out on their own, their Spanish skills were like much better. And I have to say that the Spanish that we learned in Montana was a really wonderful, clear, beautiful. Um, the Spanish that's spoken in the mountains of Ecuador and the Spanish that's spoken on the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a different thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's fast. And they drop syllables and they drop endings, and it was like, I don't know what they're saying, what's wrong with me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's true in any costal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.283748887955685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it made some things easier and some things harder. I mean, because I always had an English-speaking person to talk to, I think it took me longer to develop my Spanish skills. On the other hand, it was absolutely wonderful that I had someone I could vent my frustrations and my fears and my anxiety with. Someone when he came home at the end of the day and I'd barely made it to the market and back and cooked dinner, you know, and struggled with my Spanish all the way. You know, I had someone right there that could listen to that and be supportive. Um, but I think it also, when I saw some of the volunteers that were completely out on their own, their Spanish skills were like much better. And I have to say that the Spanish that we learned in Montana was a really wonderful, clear, beautiful. Um, the Spanish that's spoken in the mountains of Ecuador and the Spanish that's spoken on the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a different thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's fast. And they drop syllables and they drop endings, and it was like, I don't know what they're saying, what's wrong with me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's true in any costal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. But I didn't know that. And I'd just think, what's wrong with me? Why can't I communicate better? And then after, like, maybe we'd been in country two or three months and we went up to visit friends in Quito or someplace, and it was like, oh my God, I can understand what these people are saying. You know, it was like, this is lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, something you learned."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5374987643952056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's fast. And they drop syllables and they drop endings, and it was like, I don't know what they're saying, what's wrong with me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's true in any costal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. But I didn't know that. And I'd just think, what's wrong with me? Why can't I communicate better? And then after, like, maybe we'd been in country two or three months and we went up to visit friends in Quito or someplace, and it was like, oh my God, I can understand what these people are saying. You know, it was like, this is lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, something you learned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I realized that it wasn't just me, but it didn't. It still is frustrating, you know, to not have that sense of being understood. And I had said, in one of my reflections, my personal reflections, was I had like a third grade level of communicating in Spanish. So I had this college education, you know, but I couldn't communicate at a college level much of anything. You know, it was like a third grader's basic, basic, basic Spanish. And it was hard. It was humiliating. It was embarrassing. It was frustrating. It was, you know, all those things for quite a long time. And I think about six or seven months into it, I started to feel like pretty comfortable, like I can go here and get by, you know. I can ride this bus and get off the right place, you know, buy this at the market. Haggling at the market was a huge thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, bartering."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8194430715502286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. But I didn't know that. And I'd just think, what's wrong with me? Why can't I communicate better? And then after, like, maybe we'd been in country two or three months and we went up to visit friends in Quito or someplace, and it was like, oh my God, I can understand what these people are saying. You know, it was like, this is lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, something you learned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I realized that it wasn't just me, but it didn't. It still is frustrating, you know, to not have that sense of being understood. And I had said, in one of my reflections, my personal reflections, was I had like a third grade level of communicating in Spanish. So I had this college education, you know, but I couldn't communicate at a college level much of anything. You know, it was like a third grader's basic, basic, basic Spanish. And it was hard. It was humiliating. It was embarrassing. It was frustrating. It was, you know, all those things for quite a long time. And I think about six or seven months into it, I started to feel like pretty comfortable, like I can go here and get by, you know. I can ride this bus and get off the right place, you know, buy this at the market. Haggling at the market was a huge thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, bartering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like, so I'd ask how much it was and they'd tell me and it was like, OK, well, I don't want to pay that, but I don't know how to say, oh that's too much, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1327145239446983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I realized that it wasn't just me, but it didn't. It still is frustrating, you know, to not have that sense of being understood. And I had said, in one of my reflections, my personal reflections, was I had like a third grade level of communicating in Spanish. So I had this college education, you know, but I couldn't communicate at a college level much of anything. You know, it was like a third grader's basic, basic, basic Spanish. And it was hard. It was humiliating. It was embarrassing. It was frustrating. It was, you know, all those things for quite a long time. And I think about six or seven months into it, I started to feel like pretty comfortable, like I can go here and get by, you know. I can ride this bus and get off the right place, you know, buy this at the market. Haggling at the market was a huge thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, bartering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like, so I'd ask how much it was and they'd tell me and it was like, OK, well, I don't want to pay that, but I don't know how to say, oh that's too much, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got very good at that by the time I came home and I wanted to talk to the merchants, no, that's way too much. And what are you really going to take for this, you know? So it's an unlearning of haggling. But yeah, that was a huge thing to learn. I don't know that they prepared us for that particular thing in training so that might have been helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A simulated market."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.480793915494109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like, so I'd ask how much it was and they'd tell me and it was like, OK, well, I don't want to pay that, but I don't know how to say, oh that's too much, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got very good at that by the time I came home and I wanted to talk to the merchants, no, that's way too much. And what are you really going to take for this, you know? So it's an unlearning of haggling. But yeah, that was a huge thing to learn. I don't know that they prepared us for that particular thing in training so that might have been helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A simulated market."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. That might have been very helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're back from your international travel down to Chile and back up, and you're back to Machala. How do things look different to you now in your second year? Do you have somewhat different roles?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3056157962882153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In some ways I'm more connected to the community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, more language skills, more able, knew more people, was able to do more comfortably than I had been able to do prior to that. But I also knew I was, like, headed home. You know, it's like, that things are. So, you know, is this project going to be two months or six months? You know, what am I investing here? So there was always that push pull of how much longer am I going to be here to support this? And what's really going to make a difference here kind of thing. So it was a little different time. And I got pregnant before I came home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was that element of, OK, I'm ready to go home now and start a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First trimester of pregnancy can be difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.561795329209128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, more language skills, more able, knew more people, was able to do more comfortably than I had been able to do prior to that. But I also knew I was, like, headed home. You know, it's like, that things are. So, you know, is this project going to be two months or six months? You know, what am I investing here? So there was always that push pull of how much longer am I going to be here to support this? And what's really going to make a difference here kind of thing. So it was a little different time. And I got pregnant before I came home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was that element of, OK, I'm ready to go home now and start a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First trimester of pregnancy can be difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although I wasn't particularly sick. And you know, it was just exciting to be. I was sort of started forward thinking, you know, instead of thinking about like, you know, what's going on here, what do I have to do? I was, you know, working on my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Building your nest."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8464392546768087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was that element of, OK, I'm ready to go home now and start a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First trimester of pregnancy can be difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although I wasn't particularly sick. And you know, it was just exciting to be. I was sort of started forward thinking, you know, instead of thinking about like, you know, what's going on here, what do I have to do? I was, you know, working on my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Building your nest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, thinking about, OK, we're going to be home. What does that mean? That kind of thing. So it definitely was a shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your health in other ways?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1627102829742317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although I wasn't particularly sick. And you know, it was just exciting to be. I was sort of started forward thinking, you know, instead of thinking about like, you know, what's going on here, what do I have to do? I was, you know, working on my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Building your nest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, thinking about, OK, we're going to be home. What does that mean? That kind of thing. So it definitely was a shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your health in other ways?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was good for the most part. I know I lost a lot of weight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah you did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.403011425526924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, thinking about, OK, we're going to be home. What does that mean? That kind of thing. So it definitely was a shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your health in other ways?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was good for the most part. I know I lost a lot of weight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember being sick much. But I remember there being a time when we were, I think we were in Santa Elena and Gary was very, very sick for several weeks and lost a lot of weight and was running a fever. And it was kind of a scary time, and I don't remember how we resolved it, if we actually got him into Guayaquil to see the Peace Corps doctor because that's where the doctor was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you communicate from either Santa Elena or Machala if you needed a Peace Corps doctor? Was there a phone? Was there a phone in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6700126950299157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was good for the most part. I know I lost a lot of weight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember being sick much. But I remember there being a time when we were, I think we were in Santa Elena and Gary was very, very sick for several weeks and lost a lot of weight and was running a fever. And it was kind of a scary time, and I don't remember how we resolved it, if we actually got him into Guayaquil to see the Peace Corps doctor because that's where the doctor was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you communicate from either Santa Elena or Machala if you needed a Peace Corps doctor? Was there a phone? Was there a phone in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been a phone in the village. I do not remember being able to call anyone, you know, that we sort of had to go. We had to get on a bus and go and be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is hard if you're a running a very high fever, to get on a bus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.966680772255462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember being sick much. But I remember there being a time when we were, I think we were in Santa Elena and Gary was very, very sick for several weeks and lost a lot of weight and was running a fever. And it was kind of a scary time, and I don't remember how we resolved it, if we actually got him into Guayaquil to see the Peace Corps doctor because that's where the doctor was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you communicate from either Santa Elena or Machala if you needed a Peace Corps doctor? Was there a phone? Was there a phone in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been a phone in the village. I do not remember being able to call anyone, you know, that we sort of had to go. We had to get on a bus and go and be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is hard if you're a running a very high fever, to get on a bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is it, three hours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2963119691727356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been a phone in the village. I do not remember being able to call anyone, you know, that we sort of had to go. We had to get on a bus and go and be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is hard if you're a running a very high fever, to get on a bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is it, three hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was about three hours. And you know, and we'd think, well, he's going to get better. But when he didn't get better and didn't get better, I think we probably took him in to see the doctor and got some antibiotics. And he had some kind of an intestinal infection, bounced back from it eventually and did fine the rest of his time there. But there was like day after day with him running this fever and laying in bed and scary and not knowing what's going to happen. Is he's going to die here, you know, are we ever going to leave here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you supposed to do about this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.662568854636373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is it, three hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was about three hours. And you know, and we'd think, well, he's going to get better. But when he didn't get better and didn't get better, I think we probably took him in to see the doctor and got some antibiotics. And he had some kind of an intestinal infection, bounced back from it eventually and did fine the rest of his time there. But there was like day after day with him running this fever and laying in bed and scary and not knowing what's going to happen. Is he's going to die here, you know, are we ever going to leave here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you supposed to do about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. We're going to get help. How do we manage this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps doctors ever come out like every six months or something, just to check on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.958409838484859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was about three hours. And you know, and we'd think, well, he's going to get better. But when he didn't get better and didn't get better, I think we probably took him in to see the doctor and got some antibiotics. And he had some kind of an intestinal infection, bounced back from it eventually and did fine the rest of his time there. But there was like day after day with him running this fever and laying in bed and scary and not knowing what's going to happen. Is he's going to die here, you know, are we ever going to leave here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you supposed to do about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. We're going to get help. How do we manage this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps doctors ever come out like every six months or something, just to check on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went in for six-month checkups. We did, and they didn't weight, measure, and yada yada, the whole thing. But they never came out to our site. So I think they were spread pretty thin. I mean, I don't know how many. Ecuador is a country that always had a lot of volunteers, and I think they stayed pretty much at central and people came to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came in, yeah. So when you came to the end of your time, your thoughts are divided between kind of reflecting on what you've just done in the last two years and this very intense desire to look ahead and plan for the baby that's growing inside of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2871220427609544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. We're going to get help. How do we manage this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps doctors ever come out like every six months or something, just to check on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went in for six-month checkups. We did, and they didn't weight, measure, and yada yada, the whole thing. But they never came out to our site. So I think they were spread pretty thin. I mean, I don't know how many. Ecuador is a country that always had a lot of volunteers, and I think they stayed pretty much at central and people came to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came in, yeah. So when you came to the end of your time, your thoughts are divided between kind of reflecting on what you've just done in the last two years and this very intense desire to look ahead and plan for the baby that's growing inside of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some kind of close of service conference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.652357825289949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went in for six-month checkups. We did, and they didn't weight, measure, and yada yada, the whole thing. But they never came out to our site. So I think they were spread pretty thin. I mean, I don't know how many. Ecuador is a country that always had a lot of volunteers, and I think they stayed pretty much at central and people came to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came in, yeah. So when you came to the end of your time, your thoughts are divided between kind of reflecting on what you've just done in the last two years and this very intense desire to look ahead and plan for the baby that's growing inside of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some kind of close of service conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had that. I do remember like taking a language test at the end, you know, having, so there must have been some kind of, wouldn't be an orientation, I don't know what you'd call it. There was. But I don't remember there being a big thing. I mean, there was in our village where people said goodbye, hosted parties and things like that. But I don't remember there being a big thing from Peace Corps other than just you have the doctor check you out, get your proficiency, your language proficiency thing. You know, they were just going through the bureaucratic steps of things before we took off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you given an opportunity to sit down and write your reflections about what you'd accomplished?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0581753614332765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some kind of close of service conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had that. I do remember like taking a language test at the end, you know, having, so there must have been some kind of, wouldn't be an orientation, I don't know what you'd call it. There was. But I don't remember there being a big thing. I mean, there was in our village where people said goodbye, hosted parties and things like that. But I don't remember there being a big thing from Peace Corps other than just you have the doctor check you out, get your proficiency, your language proficiency thing. You know, they were just going through the bureaucratic steps of things before we took off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you given an opportunity to sit down and write your reflections about what you'd accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the good things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.509083734925863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had that. I do remember like taking a language test at the end, you know, having, so there must have been some kind of, wouldn't be an orientation, I don't know what you'd call it. There was. But I don't remember there being a big thing. I mean, there was in our village where people said goodbye, hosted parties and things like that. But I don't remember there being a big thing from Peace Corps other than just you have the doctor check you out, get your proficiency, your language proficiency thing. You know, they were just going through the bureaucratic steps of things before we took off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you given an opportunity to sit down and write your reflections about what you'd accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the good things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe I did, but I don't remember doing that. I remember reflecting on it a lot when I got home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.010093038806514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the good things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe I did, but I don't remember doing that. I remember reflecting on it a lot when I got home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how simple my life had been there and how little I really needed to get by. And that sort of influenced my parenting and influenced my life after that in his ways. But yeah, yeah. Had a bit of contempt for my friends that had been buying cars and buying houses and things like that. It was like, really, really, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So when you look back now at it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.566770043118349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe I did, but I don't remember doing that. I remember reflecting on it a lot when I got home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how simple my life had been there and how little I really needed to get by. And that sort of influenced my parenting and influenced my life after that in his ways. But yeah, yeah. Had a bit of contempt for my friends that had been buying cars and buying houses and things like that. It was like, really, really, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So when you look back now at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a long ways back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Was it a good thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.401604997418859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was probably had more impact on me than it did on the Ecuadorians. I felt that right away, that this was more. And what I said when I came home was I wouldn't have missed it for the world and I wouldn't do it again if you paid me. I really felt that conflict of, wow, I learned so much about myself and about what the rest of the world is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that two years. I couldn't have gotten it any other way from doing what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at that point, I was like, and there's no way I want to go back and do that again. It was so hard. It probably never would have been that hard again because I'd been through it once, you know. If I, whether it was the language I didn't speak or the standard of living or whatever. Gave me great compassion for people coming here, probably more than I ever had before I left, for people that immigrate here and struggle with the language and struggle with the culture and struggle with the value systems and things like that. So I learned a lot and had great respect for my Peace Corps experience. But it was hard. It was a hard time. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you'd particularly like to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.680993823973901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at that point, I was like, and there's no way I want to go back and do that again. It was so hard. It probably never would have been that hard again because I'd been through it once, you know. If I, whether it was the language I didn't speak or the standard of living or whatever. Gave me great compassion for people coming here, probably more than I ever had before I left, for people that immigrate here and struggle with the language and struggle with the culture and struggle with the value systems and things like that. So I learned a lot and had great respect for my Peace Corps experience. But it was hard. It was a hard time. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you'd particularly like to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I definitely applaud the fact that Peace Corps is still there and they're still sending volunteers over. And when they come back, they seem to have some of the same stories that I had. For some people, at least, the experience is still pretty intact, even though I'm sure there's way more bureaucracy now than there was when I was there. I think there's still that transformative, oh my God, this is what the rest of the world is like?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That you can't get looking at National Geographic or even the wonderful programs on PBS. I'm sorry, but you know, smelling it, feeling it, tasting it, the only way to do that is to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And interacting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.312215359971001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I definitely applaud the fact that Peace Corps is still there and they're still sending volunteers over. And when they come back, they seem to have some of the same stories that I had. For some people, at least, the experience is still pretty intact, even though I'm sure there's way more bureaucracy now than there was when I was there. I think there's still that transformative, oh my God, this is what the rest of the world is like?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That you can't get looking at National Geographic or even the wonderful programs on PBS. I'm sorry, but you know, smelling it, feeling it, tasting it, the only way to do that is to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And interacting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just, it really changed things. I mean, I felt like if I could have water, running water to do dishes, I didn't need hot running water, I mean. And there was a lot of times when I didn't have it back home and I thought, I can do this. I know how to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Done that before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.013572622190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That you can't get looking at National Geographic or even the wonderful programs on PBS. I'm sorry, but you know, smelling it, feeling it, tasting it, the only way to do that is to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And interacting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just, it really changed things. I mean, I felt like if I could have water, running water to do dishes, I didn't need hot running water, I mean. And there was a lot of times when I didn't have it back home and I thought, I can do this. I know how to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Done that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So um, and I think it was hard for my kids in some ways because I had this whole chutzpah of, well, we can do anything. You know, I've survived Peace Corps and I can do anything and took them, you know, to the edge a few times with adventures. Some of them were good, some of them probably not as good. But we survived it, all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went on to have not just one, but three children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.7928584691000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just, it really changed things. I mean, I felt like if I could have water, running water to do dishes, I didn't need hot running water, I mean. And there was a lot of times when I didn't have it back home and I thought, I can do this. I know how to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Done that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So um, and I think it was hard for my kids in some ways because I had this whole chutzpah of, well, we can do anything. You know, I've survived Peace Corps and I can do anything and took them, you know, to the edge a few times with adventures. Some of them were good, some of them probably not as good. But we survived it, all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went on to have not just one, but three children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, we adopted our second child. And I had a daughter. None of them went in the Peace Corps. I was hoping I'd get second generation Peace Corps, you know, that some of my friends have, but no, none of them did that. I guess I wasn't that convincing about my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in your profession? I know your marriage eventually came to an end. But in your professional life, you went on to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.325398299000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So um, and I think it was hard for my kids in some ways because I had this whole chutzpah of, well, we can do anything. You know, I've survived Peace Corps and I can do anything and took them, you know, to the edge a few times with adventures. Some of them were good, some of them probably not as good. But we survived it, all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went on to have not just one, but three children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, we adopted our second child. And I had a daughter. None of them went in the Peace Corps. I was hoping I'd get second generation Peace Corps, you know, that some of my friends have, but no, none of them did that. I guess I wasn't that convincing about my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in your profession? I know your marriage eventually came to an end. But in your professional life, you went on to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I came back and did a lot, did post-graduate work in early childhood, and then I got a master's degree in adult education and ended up working for the university and working with families who have kids with disabilities. And did that for the last 15 or 18 years, and there was lots of other social work kinds of positions. I worked in drug and alcohol counseling. I worked in reproductive rights things, worked for Planned Parenthood for a few years. So did all kinds of social work and kinds of things, always feeling like I still owed the world. You know, that I had been given whatever I had here, good health, good safe place to be, and that I had a responsibility to try and do things, you know, to do things that would make a difference for other people. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been back to Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.339997900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I came back and did a lot, did post-graduate work in early childhood, and then I got a master's degree in adult education and ended up working for the university and working with families who have kids with disabilities. And did that for the last 15 or 18 years, and there was lots of other social work kinds of positions. I worked in drug and alcohol counseling. I worked in reproductive rights things, worked for Planned Parenthood for a few years. So did all kinds of social work and kinds of things, always feeling like I still owed the world. You know, that I had been given whatever I had here, good health, good safe place to be, and that I had a responsibility to try and do things, you know, to do things that would make a difference for other people. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been back to Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not. You know, I thought I would go back. And, um, thought I would go back within, you know, 10 years. But then the three small children. It wasn't going to happen. And we didn't have much in the way of resources, you know, financially. So I haven't been back. But, you know, I've talked to people that have been there and connect with other Peace Corps volunteers. But no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not yet. Not yet. That's right. Isn't over yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Meredith, this has been quite wonderful talking to you. I'm always afraid to turn off the tape recorder thinking that there might be something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.933331000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not. You know, I thought I would go back. And, um, thought I would go back within, you know, 10 years. But then the three small children. It wasn't going to happen. And we didn't have much in the way of resources, you know, financially. So I haven't been back. But, you know, I've talked to people that have been there and connect with other Peace Corps volunteers. But no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not yet. Not yet. That's right. Isn't over yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Meredith, this has been quite wonderful talking to you. I'm always afraid to turn off the tape recorder thinking that there might be something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something profound is going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet one more."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.59259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not yet. Not yet. That's right. Isn't over yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Meredith, this has been quite wonderful talking to you. I'm always afraid to turn off the tape recorder thinking that there might be something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something profound is going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet one more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, there were lots of other little incidents and memories and things like that that don't, you know? I mean, we took the bus rides and we couldn't get on a bus, so we would ride on the top of a truck. I have pictures of us on top of the truck just riding up the mountains and the roads were narrow. And I remember Peace Corps saying always shake the bus driver's hand and smell his breath before you get on that bus. Like, what am I going to do if he smells like alcohol? I'm going to wait for the next bus, you know? Probably not. I'm probably still going to get on that bus. So there were, you know, there were definitely outstanding things that happened. And having other Peace Corps people in the communities did make a huge difference. When we were in Machala especially, there was a Peace Corps community and it was pretty wonderful. We didn't get together often, but it meant a lot to have allies, people who understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Helps your mental health."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something profound is going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet one more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, there were lots of other little incidents and memories and things like that that don't, you know? I mean, we took the bus rides and we couldn't get on a bus, so we would ride on the top of a truck. I have pictures of us on top of the truck just riding up the mountains and the roads were narrow. And I remember Peace Corps saying always shake the bus driver's hand and smell his breath before you get on that bus. Like, what am I going to do if he smells like alcohol? I'm going to wait for the next bus, you know? Probably not. I'm probably still going to get on that bus. So there were, you know, there were definitely outstanding things that happened. And having other Peace Corps people in the communities did make a huge difference. When we were in Machala especially, there was a Peace Corps community and it was pretty wonderful. We didn't get together often, but it meant a lot to have allies, people who understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Helps your mental health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. It made a big difference. Yeah. So thanks for letting me tell my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Meredith."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, there were lots of other little incidents and memories and things like that that don't, you know? I mean, we took the bus rides and we couldn't get on a bus, so we would ride on the top of a truck. I have pictures of us on top of the truck just riding up the mountains and the roads were narrow. And I remember Peace Corps saying always shake the bus driver's hand and smell his breath before you get on that bus. Like, what am I going to do if he smells like alcohol? I'm going to wait for the next bus, you know? Probably not. I'm probably still going to get on that bus. So there were, you know, there were definitely outstanding things that happened. And having other Peace Corps people in the communities did make a huge difference. When we were in Machala especially, there was a Peace Corps community and it was pretty wonderful. We didn't get together often, but it meant a lot to have allies, people who understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Helps your mental health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. It made a big difference. Yeah. So thanks for letting me tell my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Meredith."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a long time ago. You can turn it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As so often happens as we're chatting after ending this interview, there's some more that comes up. The book locker."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00269:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. It made a big difference. Yeah. So thanks for letting me tell my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Meredith."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a long time ago. You can turn it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As so often happens as we're chatting after ending this interview, there's some more that comes up. The book locker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The wonderful book locker. When we were in Peace Corps, we got a book locker that probably had two hundred novels in it or books, and we could swap them with other Peace Corps volunteers. I read so much. We had no TV, no radio. It was our entertainment and I read Dostoyevsky there. I'm sure I never would have picked it up. You know, read Crime and Punishment, read all kinds of books and swapped books, and it was just a godsend. I was like, what are we going to do tonight? Well, which book should we read out of the book locker? You know, I think we read to each other, we read privately. But it was. And I understand they don't do that anymore. I guess they still have, we have all this access to electronic media now, so you don't need it. But it was wonderful.\n\nAnd the second thing I remembered is when we had a lot of free time, even though, you know, I mean, because my time was pretty unstructured. But even Gary with his job had a lot of free time. And when we were in Santa Elena, even though we were about five miles from the ocean, he built a sailboat. Went to the local wood guy and got wood. And I remember hand sewing the sails for this sailboat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00473:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 38.73867634214302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gee. It's been a long time ago since I even thought about them. Billy Gants was the Chief in Propulsion Engineering. And if I am lucky and dig around in the attic, I might find some details on who some of the other people were, but if I start to name anybody, other than the chiefs, I'm going to miss some of the key people, so I'd rather reserve that and give it to you some other time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were at White Sands, the\\n\\n Apollo 1\\n\\n fire occurred, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the 201 fire down at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of an impact did that have on people at White Sands?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00473:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.92557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because safety, reliability, and quality assurance starts at the cradle and ends at the grave. During the design phase, we look very carefully at the design for reliability, for safety considerations, analysis of that. As far as quality assurance, are there techniques, better techniques for fabrication? Where are the inspection points? Where are the best places to look for problems? It's essentially the same thing. You have to start with the design, actually with the design requirements. We were a party to all the design requirements all the way through. So we were busy, right up to here and beyond."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could explain the Space Shuttle Reliability Engineering Policy to me and your role in its development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Policy. Reliability is a number of things, and mainly what we did was make sure that items were built in accordance with specification, that the specifications were correct, that they met the test requirements, and basically that when you turned the switch on to do something, that it happened.\\n\\n The policy, I guess you would have to say, is to make the most reliable item absolutely possible. Sometimes this is not the cheapest way. There is one other thing, and it's a matter of redundancy, which is, the policy was being at least fail-safe, which means that one failure will not cause a catastrophic event, that you have to have another way of doing the same thing, either the same part or another path, numerous secondary paths, so that there's not one wiring bus, there's a number of components to do the same thing.\n\nSo we looked to make sure that everything is at least fail-safe, and in some components, the requirement is to be fail-operational fail-safe, so you have to have a double redundancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that now brings us to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, which safety reliability/quality assurance people don't like to use the term \"accidents,\" do they? From my experience, people don't like that word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What word do they use?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00473:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.917300000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Policy. Reliability is a number of things, and mainly what we did was make sure that items were built in accordance with specification, that the specifications were correct, that they met the test requirements, and basically that when you turned the switch on to do something, that it happened.\\n\\n The policy, I guess you would have to say, is to make the most reliable item absolutely possible. Sometimes this is not the cheapest way. There is one other thing, and it's a matter of redundancy, which is, the policy was being at least fail-safe, which means that one failure will not cause a catastrophic event, that you have to have another way of doing the same thing, either the same part or another path, numerous secondary paths, so that there's not one wiring bus, there's a number of components to do the same thing.\n\nSo we looked to make sure that everything is at least fail-safe, and in some components, the requirement is to be fail-operational fail-safe, so you have to have a double redundancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that now brings us to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, which safety reliability/quality assurance people don't like to use the term \"accidents,\" do they? From my experience, people don't like that word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What word do they use?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's generally referred to in the press and elsewhere as the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, and that doesn't give me any problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of that on you and your division?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.491759078286623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He just told me about what they were doing as far as setting up [the] type of shop he was going to build.\\n\\n Maybe I should back up a little bit. I’d had experience, in the short time that I worked for NASA, with the rockets and what have you, because that’s what I was in. I was in the test lab there at Redstone. That was doing work on the test stands where [they] static fired the missiles, at Redstone. So I’d had experience in that, and that was similar to what they were going to set up here when they came to Houston. So he just told me that he felt like at that time they could hire me, and I bugged the heck out of them for the longest until I finally got a call. It was taking [so] long till I thought I wasn’t going to get hired. But then, like I said, in November of ’62, we came out, and that’s what more or less started my career as far as being with JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you two came to Houston, you said you went directly to the Manned Spacecraft Center site itself, or did you work out in those scattered buildings in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first building where we had our shop was at the old Canada Dry Building on the Gulf Freeway. We had our shop there. Then as soon as Building 10 was open, we moved into Building 10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you moved into this area, can you tell us what your first thoughts were about moving to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew the area because I had a sister and a brother both that had lived in Galveston [Texas] for years. Both my sister’s husband and my brother were merchant seamen and they had been there for many years. My sister was still living there at the time we moved. My brother had already left; he was, I think, living around New Orleans [Louisiana] or on the East Coast somewhere at that time. But my brother-in-law and sister were still living in the La Marque [Texas] area, Galveston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be nice to know that you were moving toward family."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.435287864762913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first building where we had our shop was at the old Canada Dry Building on the Gulf Freeway. We had our shop there. Then as soon as Building 10 was open, we moved into Building 10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you moved into this area, can you tell us what your first thoughts were about moving to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew the area because I had a sister and a brother both that had lived in Galveston [Texas] for years. Both my sister’s husband and my brother were merchant seamen and they had been there for many years. My sister was still living there at the time we moved. My brother had already left; he was, I think, living around New Orleans [Louisiana] or on the East Coast somewhere at that time. But my brother-in-law and sister were still living in the La Marque [Texas] area, Galveston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be nice to know that you were moving toward family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about Building 10 and what you found when you moved there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.252885882297793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We went to, what, Apollo—next to the last one, or the last one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was seventeen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seventeen? No, was it seventeen? Or sixteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gave you an opportunity to see some of your work in action, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I never got to see the Shuttle launch yet, I’m going to one of these days, if I live long enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully that will be a time that will come soon, and safe."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.280984313664213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seventeen? No, was it seventeen? Or sixteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gave you an opportunity to see some of your work in action, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I never got to see the Shuttle launch yet, I’m going to one of these days, if I live long enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully that will be a time that will come soon, and safe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them say, though, that watching the Shuttle, after seeing the Apollo, it’s kind of disappointing, because the Shuttle just goes “shhhttt” and it’s gone. Where the old “um-um-um–um-um-um,” it was so much slower. I don’t know, but I’d still like to see one of them go up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was interesting as you were describing your work with your tools. Could you share with us how your tools might have changed over the years that you were there, or did they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.431463535345234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. There’s always, in anything that we did, almost, because not only did they have to satisfy what the item was supposed to do, but they also had to satisfy the astronauts. They had lots of good input and they had lots of stuff that sometimes it wasn’t so good and it would be hard to try to get [done]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have an example of that that you can share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right off the top of my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about how some tools changed. Can you talk to us about the materials and how they changed from when you were at Redstone until the time that you got ready to retire? Were there a lot of different types of materials that you used that were new?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a whole lot. There was a few things. Like in the electron-beam welding, there’s some metals that could not be beam welded because they wouldn’t flow together; they wouldn’t fuse together. Plus, they would outgas in the vacuum chamber. See, that was done in a vacuum chamber, something I don’t think I said a while ago, but it was done in a small vacuum chamber, and I was limited as to the size of the items that I could weld on account of the chamber, size of the chamber. Like zinc, for instance, zinc you can’t weld; brass you can’t weld like that, not electron-beam weld. You can silver solder it and that sort of thing. And copper was very, very hard to weld because it had so much impurities and outgassed a lot [so] it was very hard to weld. I did do some copper. The good metals was the stainless and the monel. Certain types of aluminum you cannot weld. In fact, it’s not feasible to weld certain types of aluminum in any shape, form, or fashion. There are different alloys and, of course, you have to know which alloys is weldable and which is not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a variety of materials that you had to use all the time, or were you specifically mastered one more than the other?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.995387303356354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a hectic time, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of Skylab, once the Apollo efforts were closed down or starting to close down, and the Space Center was starting to move into Skylab, how did your shop adjust to that? Were you given new projects to do that were going to be for the Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They just moved right in to that. The engineers would come over with jobs that they wanted to get on Skylab, and we had several things that we had built that went into Skylab. Like I said, our work was items that someone wanted to do, some experiments or whatever, in addition to everything else that was on there. They’d come up with an area that they could do something or whatever, and they had that old Skylab there, before they moved it to the Space Center [Houston, Houston, Texas], had it set up. Then, of course, we’d build things, and they’d go over and check it out over there and fit it into it or whatever, until they were satisfied with the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1975, ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] flew, and then the space agency was looking forward to Shuttle. That didn’t launch till ’81. What all was your shop doing during that time period, and how were you involved in how the new era began at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ASTP, what was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Apollo-Soyuz. That was the last of the missions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.439319225951504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They just moved right in to that. The engineers would come over with jobs that they wanted to get on Skylab, and we had several things that we had built that went into Skylab. Like I said, our work was items that someone wanted to do, some experiments or whatever, in addition to everything else that was on there. They’d come up with an area that they could do something or whatever, and they had that old Skylab there, before they moved it to the Space Center [Houston, Houston, Texas], had it set up. Then, of course, we’d build things, and they’d go over and check it out over there and fit it into it or whatever, until they were satisfied with the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1975, ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] flew, and then the space agency was looking forward to Shuttle. That didn’t launch till ’81. What all was your shop doing during that time period, and how were you involved in how the new era began at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ASTP, what was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Apollo-Soyuz. That was the last of the missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked on that, too. We had some areas. I don’t remember exactly now a lot about that, but most of that, we supported work that the machinists would do, but a good portion of the items, if I recall right, that TSD [Technical Services Division] did for the AST[P], was for machine work, because that was more of the docking and the locking. That was heavier stuff and had to be machined parts and that sort of thing, and most of that was machine work, if I remember right. But we would be responsible for helping out with the welding and that sort of thing, though, when they’d need welding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been an interesting subject for all of you who started during that first days of space race, and here it ends with the United States working so closely with Russia to have a joint mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.043688028835003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "ASTP, what was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Apollo-Soyuz. That was the last of the missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked on that, too. We had some areas. I don’t remember exactly now a lot about that, but most of that, we supported work that the machinists would do, but a good portion of the items, if I recall right, that TSD [Technical Services Division] did for the AST[P], was for machine work, because that was more of the docking and the locking. That was heavier stuff and had to be machined parts and that sort of thing, and most of that was machine work, if I remember right. But we would be responsible for helping out with the welding and that sort of thing, though, when they’d need welding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been an interesting subject for all of you who started during that first days of space race, and here it ends with the United States working so closely with Russia to have a joint mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the shop move toward working for the Shuttle, and how did things change for your task?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.21767905189987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me that we didn’t have a lot of items. We did have a lot of stuff supporting experiments and that sort of thing that would be sent up on the Shuttle and all, but as far as anything to do with the Shuttle itself, I don’t recall doing any work much for that.\\n\\n The only item I can remember, I had to make a little shroud or a strut cover for when they first brought the Shuttle from California, that was the one that never flew, actually, I think was what it was used on, but later, they built more of these things. But anyway, the strut that held the nose part of the Shuttle on top of the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Guppy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t on the Guppy. What was the big plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The 747?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The 747. They came one afternoon, and I’ll never forget. It was one afternoon and another one of the rush job things. They needed this thing because they had experienced turbulence before when they had flown it just short periods of time, somehow or another on the nose of that Shuttle, riding on the 747, and they wanted a cover to cover that strut that mounted the nose of the Shuttle to the 747. So they wanted someone to stay over on a Friday afternoon and work, and I had to work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday on that thing, form something up, just metal, that would cover that strut and then mount down to the—and had no real good drawings or anything. We had some sketches and rough dimensions and what have you, but we wound up getting it fixed. Then the only time that I actually was up close and saw a Shuttle then was out at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] there, when it came through going to the Cape and I saw my part was on there, on that deal. But they said it worked, so that was all that mattered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of work did you do for the experiments? You mentioned that a couple of times, in Skylab and in Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.95476565394221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us why you wanted to do that leadership position, and what kind of responsibilities were involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For one reason, it was kind of a self-preservation-type thing, I guess, because at that time a lot of the working people, they [weren’t] getting what they should have in wages and what have you. Out here—let’s see. How to put that? We were on Wage Board scale, to begin with, and they did not like to go out on what they call a Wage Board Survey. And when they did, they only went to like production-type shops, where one man would be doing one little item. He didn’t take a complete job and build it all the way through, which was nowhere near in comparison to our type of work, the type of work that we did. Because we would take a job, we’d get the engineering drawings and everything on it and we would build it, see it from start to finish, all the way through. So we felt that we [weren’t] getting a comparison.\\n\\n This started, though, way back at Redstone Arsenal. We were both involved in the union, and it was the same way back there. We had to fight for everything that we were getting. I had established a good rapport with the personnel director at Redstone. He was at Redstone, then he wound up being out here; Stu [Stuart H.] Clarke. So once we came out here, then we just continued on and we started the union out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was Jack [R.] Lister."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Stu Clarke first and then Jack. In fact, from Stu Clarke was where I first heard of the SMA files. He told me, sitting right there in his office, he said, “You can better believe I got my SMA file.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to tell us what that is on the record, so we’ll know?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.647858832027419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Stu Clarke first and then Jack. In fact, from Stu Clarke was where I first heard of the SMA files. He told me, sitting right there in his office, he said, “You can better believe I got my SMA file.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to tell us what that is on the record, so we’ll know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Save My Ass file. But, like I say, we wound up going that route. After we got the union going and all, then I went out on the Wage Board Survey with the man from Personnel, one of the Personnel reps [representative], and I’d go out on the Wage Board Survey.\\n\\n Every Monday morning, the first thing, I’d be in Stu Clarke’s office, and I’d sit down with him; any complaints and questions and stuff that had come up from any of the areas, I would take and present to him. Then I’d have our union meeting then after that and would tell them whatever I had come up with from Personnel.\\n\\n Stu was not anti-union or anything like that; he was good. Same way with Jack Lister after he became Personnel Director. I’d also known Jack Lister at Redstone. In fact, he taught me. I don’t know what grade and all that he was back there, but he was a teacher that I had in the apprentice program in one of the math classes—I think it was math—that had to take. I had known him from Redstone, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you serve as president?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I don’t really know. Not that long. I don’t know whether it was two years or four years. Something like that, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA in ’87, I believe you mentioned earlier you went to work for Johnson Engineering."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.164287591141576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Save My Ass file. But, like I say, we wound up going that route. After we got the union going and all, then I went out on the Wage Board Survey with the man from Personnel, one of the Personnel reps [representative], and I’d go out on the Wage Board Survey.\\n\\n Every Monday morning, the first thing, I’d be in Stu Clarke’s office, and I’d sit down with him; any complaints and questions and stuff that had come up from any of the areas, I would take and present to him. Then I’d have our union meeting then after that and would tell them whatever I had come up with from Personnel.\\n\\n Stu was not anti-union or anything like that; he was good. Same way with Jack Lister after he became Personnel Director. I’d also known Jack Lister at Redstone. In fact, he taught me. I don’t know what grade and all that he was back there, but he was a teacher that I had in the apprentice program in one of the math classes—I think it was math—that had to take. I had known him from Redstone, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you serve as president?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I don’t really know. Not that long. I don’t know whether it was two years or four years. Something like that, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA in ’87, I believe you mentioned earlier you went to work for Johnson Engineering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us what you were doing there? Were you still working on things for the space agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.73809732349064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I don’t really know. Not that long. I don’t know whether it was two years or four years. Something like that, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA in ’87, I believe you mentioned earlier you went to work for Johnson Engineering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us what you were doing there? Were you still working on things for the space agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, doing the very same type of work. I got out of any of the—I thought I was getting out completely, out of any of the management or supervision and all, and I did for a while. They were doing a lot of the mock-up stuff for the Space Station mock-ups. At that time, they were just getting started good into making all the big Space Station mock-ups. So that’s what I was doing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you work with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.960613979618074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, doing the very same type of work. I got out of any of the—I thought I was getting out completely, out of any of the management or supervision and all, and I did for a while. They were doing a lot of the mock-up stuff for the Space Station mock-ups. At that time, they were just getting started good into making all the big Space Station mock-ups. So that’s what I was doing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you work with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked till ’97 I guess it was. Ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wound up being supervisor for them before I left there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all that time that you worked, when you look back, what do you consider to be the most challenging aspect or the most challenging project that you had to deal with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.622904421797863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked till ’97 I guess it was. Ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wound up being supervisor for them before I left there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all that time that you worked, when you look back, what do you consider to be the most challenging aspect or the most challenging project that you had to deal with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess maybe it was during Skylab, or the Apollo fire and Skylab. Both of them were very trying times, and didn’t have a whole lot of time to get something done, and people breathing down your neck the whole time. But I suppose that would be about the most trying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much of what you did is little by little in so many of the missions and so much of the successes of the agency. Is there one or two of those projects that you feel you’d like to think about as your greatest contributions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.11081642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There again, some of the engineers would; some wouldn’t. The best engineers that I found throughout the time at the Space Center that I’ve worked with [are] the ones that had some shop training behind them or they had gone to school on the co-op program, where we ran the engineers, the students and all, as they were going to school, ran them through the shop area. They worked right with us or whatever. They saw everything as we saw it, or chased it through the whole system. They’d work a week in our shop, work a week in the machine shop, in the electronics a week, metal finishing for a week. They saw everything through. Then, of course, some of the older ones that we had that were good ones; they were good from the very beginning.\\n\\n But the better ones, I would say, were the young guys that had gone through that co-op program. That was one of the best programs, as far as I’m concerned, for developing engineers that you could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because they see it from our standpoint of view and we’re the ones that would wind up having to do the finished product. And why not? If I can make your job be a little bit better, why not accept it, you know? But you had people, some of the hardheaded ones would not. But not this guy. That’s Bill Creasy right there [points]. You can’t see much of him. I just now realized who he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Jennifer if she had some questions to ask you as well.\n\nI had a couple of questions. You mentioned you started out as an apprentice, and I’m curious, did JSC also have an apprentice program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really recall, but at one time we had as many as three, I can remember, at one time, just in our shop. See, there’d be different ones. There’d be machinists, electronics, sheet metal. Welding was separate. We had a separate apprentice in welding and model and plastics. I guess that was all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we started the tape, Billie had mentioned that Apollo-1 [fire] and the loss of a number of astronauts, before the fire, really impacted the NASA community. Can you give us a sense of how the NASA community dealt with theses losses and how it pulled together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if I could answer that. I don’t know how I would answer that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must not have been very much time to mourn, because you had so much work to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t. I was just going to say, you just come back into work the next day and everything would be rush still going on, just like when we lost the Shuttle that time, the first time. It had kind of gotten routine to see the launch. And that particular day, of all times—I guess I’d seen about all of the launches before—we had a TV that we could go across the street and watch. Normally, I’d go over there and watch liftoff, you know, then we’d come back to work. Well, I was working on something that day or something, and I remember walking down through the shop. I was heading to the machine shop for something, and somebody [came] by and they said the Shuttle blew up. That was hard to even think about. I just, you know—then I went over to see it. But I didn’t see it initially. But after that, I think I saw most of them after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a rewarding time to know that they have returned to flight, even though it did take eighteen months [after the fire]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if I could answer that. I don’t know how I would answer that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must not have been very much time to mourn, because you had so much work to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t. I was just going to say, you just come back into work the next day and everything would be rush still going on, just like when we lost the Shuttle that time, the first time. It had kind of gotten routine to see the launch. And that particular day, of all times—I guess I’d seen about all of the launches before—we had a TV that we could go across the street and watch. Normally, I’d go over there and watch liftoff, you know, then we’d come back to work. Well, I was working on something that day or something, and I remember walking down through the shop. I was heading to the machine shop for something, and somebody [came] by and they said the Shuttle blew up. That was hard to even think about. I just, you know—then I went over to see it. But I didn’t see it initially. But after that, I think I saw most of them after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a rewarding time to know that they have returned to flight, even though it did take eighteen months [after the fire]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it must have been a joyous time to watch Apollo 7 [after the Apollo 1 fire], to know that we were moving on.\\n\\n We’ve tried to cover as many areas that we knew about. Are there some other areas or thoughts that you would like to share with us before we close?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t. I was just going to say, you just come back into work the next day and everything would be rush still going on, just like when we lost the Shuttle that time, the first time. It had kind of gotten routine to see the launch. And that particular day, of all times—I guess I’d seen about all of the launches before—we had a TV that we could go across the street and watch. Normally, I’d go over there and watch liftoff, you know, then we’d come back to work. Well, I was working on something that day or something, and I remember walking down through the shop. I was heading to the machine shop for something, and somebody [came] by and they said the Shuttle blew up. That was hard to even think about. I just, you know—then I went over to see it. But I didn’t see it initially. But after that, I think I saw most of them after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a rewarding time to know that they have returned to flight, even though it did take eighteen months [after the fire]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it must have been a joyous time to watch Apollo 7 [after the Apollo 1 fire], to know that we were moving on.\\n\\n We’ve tried to cover as many areas that we knew about. Are there some other areas or thoughts that you would like to share with us before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I think we’ve pretty well covered what you had listed down here, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess on a fun note, I was going to ask you all [about] the splashdown parties and the after-success events, did you and your team members go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00496:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it must have been a joyous time to watch Apollo 7 [after the Apollo 1 fire], to know that we were moving on.\\n\\n We’ve tried to cover as many areas that we knew about. Are there some other areas or thoughts that you would like to share with us before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I think we’ve pretty well covered what you had listed down here, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess on a fun note, I was going to ask you all [about] the splashdown parties and the after-success events, did you and your team members go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. She was in on more of those. By that time, she was in PAO [Public Affairs Office] more than the history part of it. She attended many of the splashdown parties. I only got in on one or two of them. We didn’t get in on that. We were peons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The working folks.\\n\\n Billie, we were asking Fred if there were any other areas that he could think of that we haven’t covered, and didn’t know if you had any other thoughts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.208258142628775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before I came here? I didn’t care. It didn’t bother me a bit—I wasn’t going to stay here very long. Besides, I was an Air Force guy, anyhow, so what’s the difference? The Air Force would be moving me anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to move you, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the Air Force was going to move me, anyhow. I found out that the NACA had a philosophy of teaching you: “We want you to know how this works. We want you to know this.” NACA would take time to do that and that was valuable to me. NACA and even early NASA had courses we went through to learn how to work instruments, learn how a boundary layer works, and so forth. We had to learn all kinds of things. The guys that were doing the work were the guys that were teaching us what they wanted us to know so we could help them and do their work. It’s not the case anymore—they don’t do that now. We had “organizational meetings;” granted, they were in the evening, and the whole lab was invited. Everybody from the lab went—not everybody, but there would be several hundred people who would gather in the Administration Building auditorium. There, you discussed things. Those things that didn’t work, you wanted to know why they didn’t work—maybe we can help you out. We don’t do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like an open forum, whatever was in your area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like an open forum, yes. You learned a lot from those people. Those people had all the experiences, and it was a big, huge learning curve. I couldn’t have gotten that kind of education anywhere; no place in the world—no university—had that kind of expertise. Talk to Simon Ostrach, he’ll tell you: we had the greatest things since sliced bread, but those outside NACA/NASA had nothing like that. Ostrach was here, part of that teaching group, and we had some of the finest people in the world here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They must have believed in sharing knowledge if they were such great teachers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.825010052628116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like an open forum, yes. You learned a lot from those people. Those people had all the experiences, and it was a big, huge learning curve. I couldn’t have gotten that kind of education anywhere; no place in the world—no university—had that kind of expertise. Talk to Simon Ostrach, he’ll tell you: we had the greatest things since sliced bread, but those outside NACA/NASA had nothing like that. Ostrach was here, part of that teaching group, and we had some of the finest people in the world here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They must have believed in sharing knowledge if they were such great teachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t have any qualms about that. They’d work right along with you. I worked with the people in the instrumentation group, and we had technicians who were top notch, absolutely top notch. You’d give them a sketch of what you thought you wanted to do, and a couple of days later, they’d call you and say, “Here, is this what you want?” “Wow, yes, that’ll work.” We had machine shops here, we had people who had fabrication machine shops, which were like the same thing they had at Rocketdyne. People built things and actually made them work. We had metallurgy shops, we had everything here—all gone now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to work side-by-side by these technicians, if you needed to, to have something changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it kind of a partnership?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.69445561403124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t have any qualms about that. They’d work right along with you. I worked with the people in the instrumentation group, and we had technicians who were top notch, absolutely top notch. You’d give them a sketch of what you thought you wanted to do, and a couple of days later, they’d call you and say, “Here, is this what you want?” “Wow, yes, that’ll work.” We had machine shops here, we had people who had fabrication machine shops, which were like the same thing they had at Rocketdyne. People built things and actually made them work. We had metallurgy shops, we had everything here—all gone now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to work side-by-side by these technicians, if you needed to, to have something changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it kind of a partnership?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the same way with the guys in the machine shop. All the people worked as sort of an integral unit. At that time, we didn’t have this business of “what’s your WBS [Work Breakdown Structure] number,” and “I’m not going to work on this because you don’t have a WBS,” or anything like that. They were always interested in what you were doing and why, you talked to them about it, and they didn’t just make what you wanted, they made it better. When you did your experiments, they wanted to know what you did and how it worked and all that type of thing—how can we make it better for you? Always, it was always the same way. It’s all gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stated about writing a report, in 1957, of the work that you did on the X-15. Talk to us about how important those reports were, and what all it took to put those reports together that were passed on and passed through to other people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.535299875758792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had purged stacks, and we purged it with gaseous nitrogen, and it went out pretty quickly, so we didn’t have any problem with it. That series of HLJ-tests became the baseline report for two-phase flows and somewhat for designs towards rocket engines in the low-pressure region for liquid hydrogen. Doc Graham [Chief] was the supervisor for that. Bob Ehlers and I worked the X-15 LOX -Ammonia project and then we started with Bob Friedman with the liquid hydrogen Dewars. I would guess we gathered and published the data, which surprised me, to find out that all our NACA/NASA reports, which were pretty closely held, weren’t secret, but most of the community didn’t know about NASA reports. When I became Vice President of the International Institute of Refrigeration in 1975, I chaired a session at the international cryogenics meeting in Moscow, Russia. Afterward, one of the Russians came up to me and said, “We know all about your work.”\\n\\n I said, “How did you find out?”\\n\\n He said, “We’ve read all your reports.” The Russians not only acquired those reports, but they knew all about what we were doing. It was an eye-opening experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very surprising. How long were you part of the Air Force?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About two years—about a year-and-a-half or two years, something like that. Then I was part of the Reserves for a long time after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were somewhat still affiliated with the military when you went to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first started, yes. When I first started, as I said, Colonel Pattillo was still here at NACA and he got me assigned here as NACA personnel, and then they transferred me over to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still part of the Reserves when you went to Russia for that meeting in 1975? That’d have been 20 years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.48366652862088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About two years—about a year-and-a-half or two years, something like that. Then I was part of the Reserves for a long time after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were somewhat still affiliated with the military when you went to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first started, yes. When I first started, as I said, Colonel Pattillo was still here at NACA and he got me assigned here as NACA personnel, and then they transferred me over to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still part of the Reserves when you went to Russia for that meeting in 1975? That’d have been 20 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t believe so. I think I’d signed off, and got an honorable discharge. They said, “Well, you’re not keeping up with your active duty, so we’ll give you a discharge if you want one.”\\n\\n I said, “Good. ” So they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk to us a little bit more about that. From what I understand from what I read, the work that you were doing certainly played an important part in the Space Shuttle Main Engine [SSME]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.525631044994476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. We worked with Rocketdyne and we worked with Pratt & Whitney, Aerojet and, mostly with Rocketdyne. Not only because of my own experience with those people, but Aerojet and Rocketdyne were competitors. They would swap people back and forth to acquire secrets, and that’s how they got information transferred. A few took advantage and would hire in at a significantly raised salary, and he’d transfer over there, and that type of thing. Rocketdyne had, I would say, a cadre of just absolutely excellent designers, fabrication techniques, and test facilities. They built the big engines, and they built the J-2 engines for the liquid hydrogen engines. The RL-10s were built by Pratt & Whitney, and that was liquid hydrogen. The big, key issue is that they built a lot of these things and they worked, but they didn’t know why they worked. The things that we added were not only the smarts to understand why they worked, but also the handling characteristics and all the heat transfer information designed into them. Unfortunately [or fortunately], it became designed into the Russian vehicles as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you share this information with them, or did they come to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Rocketdyne and Aerojet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would come here. That’s the time that contractors came here. We had some contractors that worked with us and some contractors that worked for the Air Force or someplace else, and they all came here. They built their engines and we told them all; everybody that came here basically got the same type of information. There wasn’t a barrier between this contractor and that contractor like you have today. It just didn’t exist. If it did, I didn’t know about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your information that you gathered here was shared to those who were using it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.584034494438306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Rocketdyne and Aerojet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would come here. That’s the time that contractors came here. We had some contractors that worked with us and some contractors that worked for the Air Force or someplace else, and they all came here. They built their engines and we told them all; everybody that came here basically got the same type of information. There wasn’t a barrier between this contractor and that contractor like you have today. It just didn’t exist. If it did, I didn’t know about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your information that you gathered here was shared to those who were using it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was widely shared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on the years that you spent working with that, what did you find to be the most challenging time of working with that whole project, and all those elements? Other than the time when everybody was standing outside. What was the most challenging part of working with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.360189549617555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just told him I’d do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You continued doing everything else you were doing as well? Or was this something that got put at the top of the list because of its nature?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became a priority item because—let me back up—Abe felt that we had run as much hydrogen as we probably could or should. I ran also liquid methane, and things like that, in that tank. He probably felt that we had enough data to do the rocket engine designs, so he was looking to try to wind down the thing anyhow, and that probably precipitated the changeover. I told Otto, “This is something that’s very important and I can do this.”\\n\\n He said, “Do it,” and so we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what timeframe that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. It was early in the Shuttle development, where NASA was very early in the Shuttle engine developments, where they were having all kinds of trouble. The NASA Marshall-Rocketdyne test crews blew them up, one after the other, on the test stand. They just couldn’t keep the pumps together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other type of work did you do with that program, the Shuttle Program? You mentioned this one—is there other aspects that you were able to lend your skills and talents to, as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.177988388463948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became a priority item because—let me back up—Abe felt that we had run as much hydrogen as we probably could or should. I ran also liquid methane, and things like that, in that tank. He probably felt that we had enough data to do the rocket engine designs, so he was looking to try to wind down the thing anyhow, and that probably precipitated the changeover. I told Otto, “This is something that’s very important and I can do this.”\\n\\n He said, “Do it,” and so we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what timeframe that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. It was early in the Shuttle development, where NASA was very early in the Shuttle engine developments, where they were having all kinds of trouble. The NASA Marshall-Rocketdyne test crews blew them up, one after the other, on the test stand. They just couldn’t keep the pumps together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other type of work did you do with that program, the Shuttle Program? You mentioned this one—is there other aspects that you were able to lend your skills and talents to, as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is getting way far into NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, but we’re here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 27.97554265384883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. It was early in the Shuttle development, where NASA was very early in the Shuttle engine developments, where they were having all kinds of trouble. The NASA Marshall-Rocketdyne test crews blew them up, one after the other, on the test stand. They just couldn’t keep the pumps together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other type of work did you do with that program, the Shuttle Program? You mentioned this one—is there other aspects that you were able to lend your skills and talents to, as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is getting way far into NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, but we’re here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once we got, in my opinion, the Shuttle stuff straightened out—because there was a long effort in that we’d had several meetings with people from all over the free world who were looking at instabilities. The French were heavily involved in finding out what we knew, and eventually they built their own engine, as you probably know. Also, they built their own launch vehicles from that type of stuff. They piggybacked off an awful lot of our data in order to build their systems, so that they now have a competitive launch system. I was really surprised at the Russians because you couldn’t get any information in or out of that place. I worked with the détente committees [President Richard M. Nixon Détente Agreements with USSR]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you that—I saw that on the list. Share with us how you got that opportunity to do that, about the détente committees, how did you get involved with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7289173203000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Détente was quite an experience, and we learned a lot. As for those people who went there with the CIA [Central Intelligence Agency], the CIA wanted to know everything you did when you came back. The CIA wanted you to act as one of their agents. I said “no.” I said, “I’m not going to do that.” Those people who did got in a lot of trouble. They didn’t get any information from the Russians. We did, we had no problems. They knew who we were, we knew who they were, they wanted to know more about our life, we wanted to know more about their life. We formed a bridge. I hope it eventually led to the bridge that I still hope exists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did. Do you feel like you were able to apply any of the knowledge you brought back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because we learned a lot about the problems with superconducting transmission power transmission lines. The biggest problem is that they carry a lot of energy. If they go normal [what we call normal; namely, they become like an ordinary conductor], what do you do with all that power? Where does it go? It’s just going to blow things up. You have to be very careful about how you put things together, where they are placed, how they operate, and things like that. There are some superconducting lines now, and the temperature has been able to come up, but not like what was promised. It was always promised, “We’ll run these cables and you won’t have any power transmission line problems.” We learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your short-term assignment, or your short-term position that you took when you came here, lasted a number of years. You’ve been here 50?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 55 years I guess, since 1957, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still working on new and exciting projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.143241467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because we learned a lot about the problems with superconducting transmission power transmission lines. The biggest problem is that they carry a lot of energy. If they go normal [what we call normal; namely, they become like an ordinary conductor], what do you do with all that power? Where does it go? It’s just going to blow things up. You have to be very careful about how you put things together, where they are placed, how they operate, and things like that. There are some superconducting lines now, and the temperature has been able to come up, but not like what was promised. It was always promised, “We’ll run these cables and you won’t have any power transmission line problems.” We learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your short-term assignment, or your short-term position that you took when you came here, lasted a number of years. You’ve been here 50?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 55 years I guess, since 1957, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still working on new and exciting projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I can’t tell you what I’m working on right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great to know you’re working on new stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.60360163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 55 years I guess, since 1957, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still working on new and exciting projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I can’t tell you what I’m working on right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great to know you’re working on new stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s related to energy, as you might expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra if she had a couple of questions for you.\n\nAs you mentioned, you’re working on things you can’t tell us about, and the stuff with the Russians. At the very beginning, with the X-15, and those other things you said that had been worked on that were somewhat secret, did you have to have any special clearances? Or because you were in the Air Force, did you already have those clearances?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8928907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I can’t tell you what I’m working on right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great to know you’re working on new stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s related to energy, as you might expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra if she had a couple of questions for you.\n\nAs you mentioned, you’re working on things you can’t tell us about, and the stuff with the Russians. At the very beginning, with the X-15, and those other things you said that had been worked on that were somewhat secret, did you have to have any special clearances? Or because you were in the Air Force, did you already have those clearances?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but strange enough, when I came here to NACA, they did the clearance again. We were pretty particular in the early days, anyhow, about your clearances. I found out a lot later in life, that it wasn’t just my grandfather that they interviewed. It was the neighbors. They interviewed all the neighbors near the farm, around the farms, around the neighborhood down there in Worthington, Ohio. They told me about it later, but I didn’t know about it then. I didn’t even learn about a lot of this stuff until after most of them passed away. At funerals and things like that, people said, “Do you know that so-and-so—?” I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was a common experience for most people that were working at that time on all projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2143230000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s related to energy, as you might expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra if she had a couple of questions for you.\n\nAs you mentioned, you’re working on things you can’t tell us about, and the stuff with the Russians. At the very beginning, with the X-15, and those other things you said that had been worked on that were somewhat secret, did you have to have any special clearances? Or because you were in the Air Force, did you already have those clearances?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but strange enough, when I came here to NACA, they did the clearance again. We were pretty particular in the early days, anyhow, about your clearances. I found out a lot later in life, that it wasn’t just my grandfather that they interviewed. It was the neighbors. They interviewed all the neighbors near the farm, around the farms, around the neighborhood down there in Worthington, Ohio. They told me about it later, but I didn’t know about it then. I didn’t even learn about a lot of this stuff until after most of them passed away. At funerals and things like that, people said, “Do you know that so-and-so—?” I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was a common experience for most people that were working at that time on all projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that. I don’t know, but I was surprised that not only they interviewed my family and associates and people that I was familiar with, and references that you put down, but they went into the history, family history, and where you’re from and what you were doing and how you worked or didn’t work, and what kind of person were you, and could you be trusted. All that type of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.57147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but strange enough, when I came here to NACA, they did the clearance again. We were pretty particular in the early days, anyhow, about your clearances. I found out a lot later in life, that it wasn’t just my grandfather that they interviewed. It was the neighbors. They interviewed all the neighbors near the farm, around the farms, around the neighborhood down there in Worthington, Ohio. They told me about it later, but I didn’t know about it then. I didn’t even learn about a lot of this stuff until after most of them passed away. At funerals and things like that, people said, “Do you know that so-and-so—?” I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was a common experience for most people that were working at that time on all projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that. I don’t know, but I was surprised that not only they interviewed my family and associates and people that I was familiar with, and references that you put down, but they went into the history, family history, and where you’re from and what you were doing and how you worked or didn’t work, and what kind of person were you, and could you be trusted. All that type of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had secret clearance—I still have it—but I didn’t want top secret. After I found out what was in secret and why it was secret, I didn’t want to know any more about it. There’s a lot of stuff you don’t want to know. You don’t want to know. I’ll just say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you. There’s a lot I don’t want to know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00946:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that. I don’t know, but I was surprised that not only they interviewed my family and associates and people that I was familiar with, and references that you put down, but they went into the history, family history, and where you’re from and what you were doing and how you worked or didn’t work, and what kind of person were you, and could you be trusted. All that type of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had secret clearance—I still have it—but I didn’t want top secret. After I found out what was in secret and why it was secret, I didn’t want to know any more about it. There’s a lot of stuff you don’t want to know. You don’t want to know. I’ll just say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you. There’s a lot I don’t want to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thank the Good Lord that we still have a country where we’re able to worship God and some people don’t. There are a lot of people that don’t. I still have a clearance, but I don’t use it much anymore. I shy away from classified projects as much as I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you for answering that, I appreciate it.\n\nI was reading some information that was out on the site, one of the comments that was made in this article was that you have been quoted as saying that you’re “driven by the applications of my research.” Could you explain that to us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00588:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. A hug from a Marine, God forbid! And it's still with me, and when that part opens up, it's frightening.\\n\\n So I'm not sure what the lesson learned about that is. I guess it's a vulnerability, because it could have gone very badly. Through my own discipline and the excellent support of the support system we built in Moscow, and it wasn't always this good. If this had happened to me four years ago, it probably would have been a couple days.\\n\\n Now, I've heard this has happened at other times. In fact, one of the people coming in on our trip didn't have a visa at all. Now, I would have never gotten on the airplane if I didn't have a visa, because I have a sense of what the system is about. Again, you don't want to mess with an essentially hostile system. There's no benefit there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's very good. It underscores just another endorsement of the power of positive thinking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you there's one more lesson learned here. Make sure before you leave, administratively, that you've got a multi-entry visa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's a fascinating discussion. Is there anything you want to close up with in final thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00836:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 32.607756881586496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, 2440 is the number I always use, then when I saw this thing, it says 2,000. Then I got a pay increase—it didn’t include the overtime—then I got a pay increase to 2430. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure doesn’t sound like much nowadays, does it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it doesn’t. It didn’t matter. I was just getting started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there are these somewhat apocryphal stories about how people wouldn’t cash their paychecks. They’d just leave them sitting in their desk drawers for weeks at a time, whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve heard that, yes, I’ve heard that. But as I indicated to you, with that I still had to go borrow from my boss a deposit on a car, which, fortunately, I didn’t lose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, fortunately.\\n\\n The point you were making before we went off on this tangent, got at the heart of my next question, which was how was the technical side of things divided up between the AEC and NASA and all the contractors?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00836:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.553682617513402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did a little bit. Yes, I didn’t know it was going to happen, but, to me, it was always inevitable that if we were going to have any deep-space science or human missions, we would have to go nuclear. Pluto proved that to a large extent. So there was never any question in my mind if NASA was going to have a major science exploration program, you’d have to go that route.\\n\\n So, from that point of view, it didn’t surprise me. It surprised me, if anything, that it happened that quickly and visibly. It wasn’t snuck in somewhere; it was a visible point that was made. And Sean O’Keefe keeps emphasizing the need for technology development on power and propulsion so we have a capability to do missions we may want to do.\\n\\n My sense of inadequacy in that is, I haven’t yet seen the real definition of “So what, in fact, are the missions you’re aiming at?” So you can development the technology, a technology base, but not one that’s necessarily directly applicable in all those cases. And you may have to make some adjustment. That might take time. But at least let’s get the technology rolling and maintain a strong technology [development] effort, but let’s get to defining some of the missions more rigorously and fund them appropriately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How different is the technology now than the last time there was a serious effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t think it’s different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don’t think it’s much different. I think much of the technology is going to be an extension of what was there and get back to it. I really believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in forty years there’s—in terms of that field—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00836:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.8564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I sat in on all those meetings. There’s no question about it. I can’t say that it changed things. It was just a major problem that we faced, and the Administrator was on top of it all the way, as were others. Bob [Robert C.] Seamans was heavily involved, people down at Langley were involved, a committee was set up to examine, and so on. But I can’t say that it really affected how I worked. I was involved in it. I sat in on those groups, but I can’t say I was a decision maker in that process. I haven’t thought about it. I really haven’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn’t know if that incident had brought to light any of these organizational concerns that were addressed by the creation of your office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so, really. Well, maybe it had some role, but I don’t know. I really don’t know. I never had that feeling that it was that that stimulated stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ended up staying in this position as AA for a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to leave that post?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00836:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so, really. Well, maybe it had some role, but I don’t know. I really don’t know. I never had that feeling that it was that that stimulated stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ended up staying in this position as AA for a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to leave that post?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I had a call about five o’clock one afternoon from the new undersecretary of HUD, asking me to come over and talk to the Secretary about joining them. It was the ’67 period, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1967 to 1969, I think, is when you were the AA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.755342792616286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big adjustment. Believe me. I was just so young; I was just 21, and he was 30, so he was much more mature and knew what he wanted with his career and everything. So it was lonely at first, but we met some nice people that worked at Langley, NACA, and I had some good friends there, and joined a church there. Herbert wasn't a church-going person because on weekends he'd play golf, he loved to play golf, and he was a good golfer. I'd take the kids to Sunday School. He was an excellent golfer, but I never saw him play, because the kids were little and I'd take them to Sunday School and he'd go out and play golf on Sundays. So I never got to see him play, but he won a lot of tournaments at Langley. He was an excellent player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the area around Langley, Hampton and the community, how did they accept or treat the people that worked for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they accepted them as nice people, friendly part of the community. I don't think they built them up in any special way, I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've heard people refer to the community thinking of them as the NACA Nuts and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did call them NACA Nuts, I remember that. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you met several people and became good friends. Were there any organized social activities that you took part in as far as the NACA group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.394825325129208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they accepted them as nice people, friendly part of the community. I don't think they built them up in any special way, I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've heard people refer to the community thinking of them as the NACA Nuts and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did call them NACA Nuts, I remember that. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you met several people and became good friends. Were there any organized social activities that you took part in as far as the NACA group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall being in an organization. They had NACA parties of course that type of thing. I don't recall their having an organized group to get together. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you live in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.54980591681023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did call them NACA Nuts, I remember that. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you met several people and became good friends. Were there any organized social activities that you took part in as far as the NACA group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall being in an organization. They had NACA parties of course that type of thing. I don't recall their having an organized group to get together. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you live in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at first we lived in Phoebus [Virginia] when we were first married. Phoebus is the little town right after you cross the bridge, coming over here. In fact, when we lived there, they didn't have a bridge. We had to take a boat to get over to Virginia Beach, they didn't have a bridge then. We lived in Phoebus, and then we moved to Hampton, and after both the children were born, we moved to Newport News [Virginia] on James River Drive, which was a beautiful area where a lot of the NACA people lived. Like [John A.] Harper was the fellow that was with Herbert when he had his accident. Jack [John P.] Reeder was one of the pilots. Don Bales was an engineer. The [Jerome B.] Hammack’s lived next door. So there were a lot of NACA people in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you said, you made a lot of good friends. Did you belong to any kind of organizations or did you, were you working at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.499784352011364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall being in an organization. They had NACA parties of course that type of thing. I don't recall their having an organized group to get together. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you live in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at first we lived in Phoebus [Virginia] when we were first married. Phoebus is the little town right after you cross the bridge, coming over here. In fact, when we lived there, they didn't have a bridge. We had to take a boat to get over to Virginia Beach, they didn't have a bridge then. We lived in Phoebus, and then we moved to Hampton, and after both the children were born, we moved to Newport News [Virginia] on James River Drive, which was a beautiful area where a lot of the NACA people lived. Like [John A.] Harper was the fellow that was with Herbert when he had his accident. Jack [John P.] Reeder was one of the pilots. Don Bales was an engineer. The [Jerome B.] Hammack’s lived next door. So there were a lot of NACA people in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you said, you made a lot of good friends. Did you belong to any kind of organizations or did you, were you working at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to work until after I lost Herbert. I taught school for a couple years. I didn't have a chance to do anything but just staying at home with the kids. I joined a group called PEO, have you ever heard of it? It's the Philanthropic Educational Organization. It's a wonderful group of women and we support colleges and give money for people that can't afford to go to college. It's a college-oriented thing. Philanthropic. I still belong to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You joined it back then, during that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.333093724457072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at first we lived in Phoebus [Virginia] when we were first married. Phoebus is the little town right after you cross the bridge, coming over here. In fact, when we lived there, they didn't have a bridge. We had to take a boat to get over to Virginia Beach, they didn't have a bridge then. We lived in Phoebus, and then we moved to Hampton, and after both the children were born, we moved to Newport News [Virginia] on James River Drive, which was a beautiful area where a lot of the NACA people lived. Like [John A.] Harper was the fellow that was with Herbert when he had his accident. Jack [John P.] Reeder was one of the pilots. Don Bales was an engineer. The [Jerome B.] Hammack’s lived next door. So there were a lot of NACA people in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you said, you made a lot of good friends. Did you belong to any kind of organizations or did you, were you working at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to work until after I lost Herbert. I taught school for a couple years. I didn't have a chance to do anything but just staying at home with the kids. I joined a group called PEO, have you ever heard of it? It's the Philanthropic Educational Organization. It's a wonderful group of women and we support colleges and give money for people that can't afford to go to college. It's a college-oriented thing. Philanthropic. I still belong to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You joined it back then, during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me see what else I belonged to. Of course, I was always active in our church there, the Presbyterian Church. I think I joined a Garden Club, Home Demonstration Club. That's about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you married him, you knew that he was a test pilot. How much did he share with you, what he did or the dangers of his job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.370104138285637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to work until after I lost Herbert. I taught school for a couple years. I didn't have a chance to do anything but just staying at home with the kids. I joined a group called PEO, have you ever heard of it? It's the Philanthropic Educational Organization. It's a wonderful group of women and we support colleges and give money for people that can't afford to go to college. It's a college-oriented thing. Philanthropic. I still belong to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You joined it back then, during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me see what else I belonged to. Of course, I was always active in our church there, the Presbyterian Church. I think I joined a Garden Club, Home Demonstration Club. That's about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you married him, you knew that he was a test pilot. How much did he share with you, what he did or the dangers of his job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so happy in his job and loved his work, and he always said he felt safer in an airplane than he did in an automobile. So we never really considered it too much, it was his livelihood, but he loved it. He just liked his work, and didn’t consider it. We made the mistake of not discussing if something happened to him, what I should do. The only thing he ever said, \"If something happens to me, be sure you pay the mortgage on the house.\" And we didn't discuss anything else, which was a mistake. It definitely was a mistake. We should have discussed more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever know about any of the missions that he was flying when he was doing them, if they were going to be especially dangerous?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.522337931428485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me see what else I belonged to. Of course, I was always active in our church there, the Presbyterian Church. I think I joined a Garden Club, Home Demonstration Club. That's about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you married him, you knew that he was a test pilot. How much did he share with you, what he did or the dangers of his job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so happy in his job and loved his work, and he always said he felt safer in an airplane than he did in an automobile. So we never really considered it too much, it was his livelihood, but he loved it. He just liked his work, and didn’t consider it. We made the mistake of not discussing if something happened to him, what I should do. The only thing he ever said, \"If something happens to me, be sure you pay the mortgage on the house.\" And we didn't discuss anything else, which was a mistake. It definitely was a mistake. We should have discussed more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever know about any of the missions that he was flying when he was doing them, if they were going to be especially dangerous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course flying the X-1, he definitely wanted to do that. He said, \"We both will benefit from it.\" I don’t know exactly what he meant by that, but he said, \"We both will benefit from it,\" and of course he got a lot of recognition from that. But he just didn't discuss the danger of it, and I wasn't smart enough to ask him about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were young, too. As you said, you were very young."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.913708812698317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so happy in his job and loved his work, and he always said he felt safer in an airplane than he did in an automobile. So we never really considered it too much, it was his livelihood, but he loved it. He just liked his work, and didn’t consider it. We made the mistake of not discussing if something happened to him, what I should do. The only thing he ever said, \"If something happens to me, be sure you pay the mortgage on the house.\" And we didn't discuss anything else, which was a mistake. It definitely was a mistake. We should have discussed more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever know about any of the missions that he was flying when he was doing them, if they were going to be especially dangerous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course flying the X-1, he definitely wanted to do that. He said, \"We both will benefit from it.\" I don’t know exactly what he meant by that, but he said, \"We both will benefit from it,\" and of course he got a lot of recognition from that. But he just didn't discuss the danger of it, and I wasn't smart enough to ask him about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were young, too. As you said, you were very young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he fly back and forth to California to go to [NACA] Muroc [Flight Test Unit, now NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.570787569664798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course flying the X-1, he definitely wanted to do that. He said, \"We both will benefit from it.\" I don’t know exactly what he meant by that, but he said, \"We both will benefit from it,\" and of course he got a lot of recognition from that. But he just didn't discuss the danger of it, and I wasn't smart enough to ask him about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were young, too. As you said, you were very young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he fly back and forth to California to go to [NACA] Muroc [Flight Test Unit, now NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in California a lot of times. It was really hard with the kids not having their dad around. But that was his life, that's what he wanted to do. Like my son said, \"Mother, he was doing what he wanted to do.\" So I just have to accept it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do, personally, to handle the stress?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.52309729962755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he fly back and forth to California to go to [NACA] Muroc [Flight Test Unit, now NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in California a lot of times. It was really hard with the kids not having their dad around. But that was his life, that's what he wanted to do. Like my son said, \"Mother, he was doing what he wanted to do.\" So I just have to accept it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do, personally, to handle the stress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wasn't aware of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never felt the stress. Or did you feel like you had to relieve his stress by taking care of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.80344144403061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in California a lot of times. It was really hard with the kids not having their dad around. But that was his life, that's what he wanted to do. Like my son said, \"Mother, he was doing what he wanted to do.\" So I just have to accept it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do, personally, to handle the stress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wasn't aware of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never felt the stress. Or did you feel like you had to relieve his stress by taking care of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young, I just didn't think a thing about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't think about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.448268271145125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wasn't aware of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never felt the stress. Or did you feel like you had to relieve his stress by taking care of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young, I just didn't think a thing about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't think about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, I certainly would, now that I'm an old woman I would certainly do it. Back then, I was just so young and immature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have any way of, when he came home, any hobbies or anything that you remember that he may have used to cope with some of the stress that he had at work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.49807585682792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young, I just didn't think a thing about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't think about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, I certainly would, now that I'm an old woman I would certainly do it. Back then, I was just so young and immature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have any way of, when he came home, any hobbies or anything that you remember that he may have used to cope with some of the stress that he had at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was good at making furniture. Hand work. We had, in the garage, all kinds of tools that he would make, he would build tables and chairs, and he was really talented in that way. Of course, he loved his golf; he was really playing a lot of golf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard some people describe golf as stressful."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 43.886750952031015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, I certainly would, now that I'm an old woman I would certainly do it. Back then, I was just so young and immature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have any way of, when he came home, any hobbies or anything that you remember that he may have used to cope with some of the stress that he had at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was good at making furniture. Hand work. We had, in the garage, all kinds of tools that he would make, he would build tables and chairs, and he was really talented in that way. Of course, he loved his golf; he was really playing a lot of golf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard some people describe golf as stressful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. I play golf now, I've been playing for years and I love it, but it is stressful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that test pilots, most of them have a certain type of personality. Very cool, very calm under stress. Was he also that way, and did he handle other situations in his life the same way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 35, "return_to_go": 46.54083439114557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was good at making furniture. Hand work. We had, in the garage, all kinds of tools that he would make, he would build tables and chairs, and he was really talented in that way. Of course, he loved his golf; he was really playing a lot of golf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard some people describe golf as stressful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. I play golf now, I've been playing for years and I love it, but it is stressful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that test pilots, most of them have a certain type of personality. Very cool, very calm under stress. Was he also that way, and did he handle other situations in his life the same way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was just a smart, capable individual. Very calm, and he never seemed to get uptight about much of anything. But, the morning that he had his accident, after breakfast—he had a nice singing voice, and he left singing, \"Oh, what a beautiful morning! Everything's going my way.\" And then about midmorning, a chaplain came to my house. But anyway, he was happy that morning. He was singing, \"Everything's going my way.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that's a comfort to you, to know that he was happy. As your son said, he was happy doing what he wanted to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.514608125507658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just, I don't know, young and stupid. I didn't know what I was doing. My son said, \"Mother, you should write a book. Call it Three Strikes and You're Out.\" (laughter) So that's what I should do, I've got to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of these days, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of these days, write a book, Three Strikes and You're Out. But they all were great guys, they really were. Tom was divorced from his first wife, and he had that one daughter who is the artist. She lives in San Diego [California]. So we're close friends. I got an email from her the other day and she said, \"Well, what Herbert and Tom did for NACA is they really contributed, they both did,\" and she said, \"and thank goodness you were part of their lives.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so sweet. That's very sweet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period, organizations of people that had dangerous jobs and those sort of things, they didn't always know how to handle those situations. I was wondering if, when your first husband died, and since it was doing testing, was there any kind of organized group or any kind of effort to help you get over this or to help you in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.682897917230731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of these days, write a book, Three Strikes and You're Out. But they all were great guys, they really were. Tom was divorced from his first wife, and he had that one daughter who is the artist. She lives in San Diego [California]. So we're close friends. I got an email from her the other day and she said, \"Well, what Herbert and Tom did for NACA is they really contributed, they both did,\" and she said, \"and thank goodness you were part of their lives.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so sweet. That's very sweet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period, organizations of people that had dangerous jobs and those sort of things, they didn't always know how to handle those situations. I was wondering if, when your first husband died, and since it was doing testing, was there any kind of organized group or any kind of effort to help you get over this or to help you in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you ever hear the name, Mel [Melvin N.] Gough? He was one of the pilots when the accident happened, and he came out to see me, he said, \"We have lost our key man. We've lost our key man.\" Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden came to see me too. But no, there was no particular group that the got around to give you comfort. No. I look back on it, and the kids and I, we all should have had some support and help. We should have. We needed help to accept what had happened because it was hard on them, too. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can't imagine being there with those two young children and what you must have been feeling."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.758775463589702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's my story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period, organizations of people that had dangerous jobs and those sort of things, they didn't always know how to handle those situations. I was wondering if, when your first husband died, and since it was doing testing, was there any kind of organized group or any kind of effort to help you get over this or to help you in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you ever hear the name, Mel [Melvin N.] Gough? He was one of the pilots when the accident happened, and he came out to see me, he said, \"We have lost our key man. We've lost our key man.\" Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden came to see me too. But no, there was no particular group that the got around to give you comfort. No. I look back on it, and the kids and I, we all should have had some support and help. We should have. We needed help to accept what had happened because it was hard on them, too. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can't imagine being there with those two young children and what you must have been feeling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was tough. And then the minister that performed Herbert's funeral came to see me, the kids and me, one cold winter night. I was busy working supper for us, and I said, \"Oh, Mr. Thompson, I miss him so much.\" He said, \"Ruth, there are more things important than the flesh.\" That was the help I had from the minister. \"More important things than the flesh.\" Than human beings. More spiritual. He didn't give me any help whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because unfortunately, you were still in the flesh, weren't you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.843083848433002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you ever hear the name, Mel [Melvin N.] Gough? He was one of the pilots when the accident happened, and he came out to see me, he said, \"We have lost our key man. We've lost our key man.\" Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden came to see me too. But no, there was no particular group that the got around to give you comfort. No. I look back on it, and the kids and I, we all should have had some support and help. We should have. We needed help to accept what had happened because it was hard on them, too. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can't imagine being there with those two young children and what you must have been feeling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was tough. And then the minister that performed Herbert's funeral came to see me, the kids and me, one cold winter night. I was busy working supper for us, and I said, \"Oh, Mr. Thompson, I miss him so much.\" He said, \"Ruth, there are more things important than the flesh.\" That was the help I had from the minister. \"More important things than the flesh.\" Than human beings. More spiritual. He didn't give me any help whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because unfortunately, you were still in the flesh, weren't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He reminded me of [Barack] Obama's minister. (laughter) Oh dear! They aren't always right, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not always. They're still human no matter what, aren't they? Well, as you mentioned, he was an important pilot, and he was the second person to break the sound barrier, and the first civilian for NACA. I've read some about him, and they said that he would deliberately fly through bad weather to conduct the flying research."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.047870942703335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was tough. And then the minister that performed Herbert's funeral came to see me, the kids and me, one cold winter night. I was busy working supper for us, and I said, \"Oh, Mr. Thompson, I miss him so much.\" He said, \"Ruth, there are more things important than the flesh.\" That was the help I had from the minister. \"More important things than the flesh.\" Than human beings. More spiritual. He didn't give me any help whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because unfortunately, you were still in the flesh, weren't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He reminded me of [Barack] Obama's minister. (laughter) Oh dear! They aren't always right, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not always. They're still human no matter what, aren't they? Well, as you mentioned, he was an important pilot, and he was the second person to break the sound barrier, and the first civilian for NACA. I've read some about him, and they said that he would deliberately fly through bad weather to conduct the flying research."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He chose to drive through thunderstorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an amazing pilot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.386523269670372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He reminded me of [Barack] Obama's minister. (laughter) Oh dear! They aren't always right, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not always. They're still human no matter what, aren't they? Well, as you mentioned, he was an important pilot, and he was the second person to break the sound barrier, and the first civilian for NACA. I've read some about him, and they said that he would deliberately fly through bad weather to conduct the flying research."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He chose to drive through thunderstorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an amazing pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. I don’t know what he was made of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, having him and then your second husband, he was also a pilot for the Air Force?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.76280363296708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He chose to drive through thunderstorms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an amazing pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. I don’t know what he was made of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, having him and then your second husband, he was also a pilot for the Air Force?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but he wasn't a test pilot. He was just Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then your third husband, I know he worked for NACA, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.292004036630088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. I don’t know what he was made of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, having him and then your second husband, he was also a pilot for the Air Force?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but he wasn't a test pilot. He was just Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then your third husband, I know he worked for NACA, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in charge of grants and research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that when he was with NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.991115596255653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but he wasn't a test pilot. He was just Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then your third husband, I know he worked for NACA, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in charge of grants and research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that when he was with NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he worked for NACA at Langley. This just tells you about what Tom did, that's his record [referring to document]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you relocate to Washington D.C. area? You said you lived in Alexandria [Virginia] for a while after you married him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.545683995839617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in charge of grants and research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that when he was with NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he worked for NACA at Langley. This just tells you about what Tom did, that's his record [referring to document]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you relocate to Washington D.C. area? You said you lived in Alexandria [Virginia] for a while after you married him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I married him, I sold my home in Newport News and we moved to Alexandria. So that's where I lived for 35 and a half years when I was with him. Although we moved to Palmdale, California. We lived in Palmdale five and a half years, because Tom had job there at Edwards Air Force Base as some kind of a—I don't know exactly what he was doing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What years were those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.82853777315513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he worked for NACA at Langley. This just tells you about what Tom did, that's his record [referring to document]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you relocate to Washington D.C. area? You said you lived in Alexandria [Virginia] for a while after you married him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I married him, I sold my home in Newport News and we moved to Alexandria. So that's where I lived for 35 and a half years when I was with him. Although we moved to Palmdale, California. We lived in Palmdale five and a half years, because Tom had job there at Edwards Air Force Base as some kind of a—I don't know exactly what he was doing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What years were those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Early 70s, '72. About ’70. We lived there five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that, living in California after being out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.809486414616812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I married him, I sold my home in Newport News and we moved to Alexandria. So that's where I lived for 35 and a half years when I was with him. Although we moved to Palmdale, California. We lived in Palmdale five and a half years, because Tom had job there at Edwards Air Force Base as some kind of a—I don't know exactly what he was doing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What years were those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Early 70s, '72. About ’70. We lived there five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that, living in California after being out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a big adjustment. It really was. I thought, \"I cannot take this desert climate.\" The wind blew and the sun was just hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Every morning, Tom would get up and pull the drapes and he'd say, \"Oh, another beautiful day in Antelope Valley,\" and I thought, \"If I hear that any more, I'm going to croak. I want to see rain.\" We didn't know what rain was in the desert.\\n\\n Of course, we played a lot of golf there, we lived right near the golf course. You'd go out there and the wind would just be blowing everywhere and the hot sun. One day—I used to walk and pull my clubs—and when we came in from playing 18 holes, I thought, \"Gosh, I don't feel good.\" It turned out it was 112 [degrees] that day. I played 18 holes of golf in a temperature of 112."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness! I guess you didn't feel very good, did you? You were probably dehydrated."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.899429349574234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Early 70s, '72. About ’70. We lived there five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that, living in California after being out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a big adjustment. It really was. I thought, \"I cannot take this desert climate.\" The wind blew and the sun was just hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Every morning, Tom would get up and pull the drapes and he'd say, \"Oh, another beautiful day in Antelope Valley,\" and I thought, \"If I hear that any more, I'm going to croak. I want to see rain.\" We didn't know what rain was in the desert.\\n\\n Of course, we played a lot of golf there, we lived right near the golf course. You'd go out there and the wind would just be blowing everywhere and the hot sun. One day—I used to walk and pull my clubs—and when we came in from playing 18 holes, I thought, \"Gosh, I don't feel good.\" It turned out it was 112 [degrees] that day. I played 18 holes of golf in a temperature of 112."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness! I guess you didn't feel very good, did you? You were probably dehydrated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, that's what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were young and you didn't really have a grasp of what your husband was doing at that time. Did you know the wives of some of the other test pilots? You weren't friends with any of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3326992773047035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a big adjustment. It really was. I thought, \"I cannot take this desert climate.\" The wind blew and the sun was just hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Every morning, Tom would get up and pull the drapes and he'd say, \"Oh, another beautiful day in Antelope Valley,\" and I thought, \"If I hear that any more, I'm going to croak. I want to see rain.\" We didn't know what rain was in the desert.\\n\\n Of course, we played a lot of golf there, we lived right near the golf course. You'd go out there and the wind would just be blowing everywhere and the hot sun. One day—I used to walk and pull my clubs—and when we came in from playing 18 holes, I thought, \"Gosh, I don't feel good.\" It turned out it was 112 [degrees] that day. I played 18 holes of golf in a temperature of 112."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness! I guess you didn't feel very good, did you? You were probably dehydrated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, that's what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were young and you didn't really have a grasp of what your husband was doing at that time. Did you know the wives of some of the other test pilots? You weren't friends with any of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Later on, I met Bill Gray's wife. And of course Bill Harper and Peggy, I met them. Of course I knew Jack Reeder and Francis. But I didn't know all of them, but I did know the Reeders and the Harpers, and of course Howard Lilly wasn't married. I remember when he was killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back to teaching? You said you taught those two years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.814110308116337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, that's what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were young and you didn't really have a grasp of what your husband was doing at that time. Did you know the wives of some of the other test pilots? You weren't friends with any of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Later on, I met Bill Gray's wife. And of course Bill Harper and Peggy, I met them. Of course I knew Jack Reeder and Francis. But I didn't know all of them, but I did know the Reeders and the Harpers, and of course Howard Lilly wasn't married. I remember when he was killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back to teaching? You said you taught those two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught two years, and then I married. My career was marriage. Marriage and widowhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you've married some high achieving men, so I imagine that's a career in itself."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.237900342351486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Later on, I met Bill Gray's wife. And of course Bill Harper and Peggy, I met them. Of course I knew Jack Reeder and Francis. But I didn't know all of them, but I did know the Reeders and the Harpers, and of course Howard Lilly wasn't married. I remember when he was killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back to teaching? You said you taught those two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught two years, and then I married. My career was marriage. Marriage and widowhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you've married some high achieving men, so I imagine that's a career in itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were. They all were such nice guys, they really were. I came across a lot of old letters from them. Been lucky in a lot of ways, but none of them hung in there. Someone said, \"Ruth, you're hard on them.\" But Herbert was 40 when he was killed, that's awful young. Then Kurt at 41. That was hard on my kids too, because they were so crazy about Kurt. I have the cutest picture of Kurt and Hank with their arms around each other. That was really hard on them. They didn't know Tom that well when we got married, but my son Hank and Tom became very good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. It takes a special person, too, to do that. To develop that friendship and that love with another child. Is there anything you want to talk about?\n\nI do. You mentioned that your husband was the second to break the sound barrier. Did he come home and tell you that day? Tell us about that day that he did that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.708778158168317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught two years, and then I married. My career was marriage. Marriage and widowhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you've married some high achieving men, so I imagine that's a career in itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were. They all were such nice guys, they really were. I came across a lot of old letters from them. Been lucky in a lot of ways, but none of them hung in there. Someone said, \"Ruth, you're hard on them.\" But Herbert was 40 when he was killed, that's awful young. Then Kurt at 41. That was hard on my kids too, because they were so crazy about Kurt. I have the cutest picture of Kurt and Hank with their arms around each other. That was really hard on them. They didn't know Tom that well when we got married, but my son Hank and Tom became very good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. It takes a special person, too, to do that. To develop that friendship and that love with another child. Is there anything you want to talk about?\n\nI do. You mentioned that your husband was the second to break the sound barrier. Did he come home and tell you that day? Tell us about that day that he did that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think he called to tell me. I don't think he called to tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He just went to work and did something historic and came home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.23197573129813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were. They all were such nice guys, they really were. I came across a lot of old letters from them. Been lucky in a lot of ways, but none of them hung in there. Someone said, \"Ruth, you're hard on them.\" But Herbert was 40 when he was killed, that's awful young. Then Kurt at 41. That was hard on my kids too, because they were so crazy about Kurt. I have the cutest picture of Kurt and Hank with their arms around each other. That was really hard on them. They didn't know Tom that well when we got married, but my son Hank and Tom became very good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. It takes a special person, too, to do that. To develop that friendship and that love with another child. Is there anything you want to talk about?\n\nI do. You mentioned that your husband was the second to break the sound barrier. Did he come home and tell you that day? Tell us about that day that he did that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think he called to tell me. I don't think he called to tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He just went to work and did something historic and came home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.813306368109033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think he called to tell me. I don't think he called to tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He just went to work and did something historic and came home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember. Maybe someone at Langley told me, but I don't recall when he told me that, if he told me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Tom talk much about his work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.348118186787814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember. Maybe someone at Langley told me, but I don't recall when he told me that, if he told me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Tom talk much about his work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tom? Oh yes. Tom talked a lot about his work. He worked with the universities in promoting the projects with NASA. He did a lot of traveling. He accomplished quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That fits in well with what you were doing, with PEO. Working with education."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.942353540875349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember. Maybe someone at Langley told me, but I don't recall when he told me that, if he told me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Tom talk much about his work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tom? Oh yes. Tom talked a lot about his work. He worked with the universities in promoting the projects with NASA. He did a lot of traveling. He accomplished quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That fits in well with what you were doing, with PEO. Working with education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom being in the position that he was in, did you attend a lot of activities, entertaining?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.602615045417054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tom? Oh yes. Tom talked a lot about his work. He worked with the universities in promoting the projects with NASA. He did a lot of traveling. He accomplished quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That fits in well with what you were doing, with PEO. Working with education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom being in the position that he was in, did you attend a lot of activities, entertaining?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With Tom? Yes, I traveled a good deal with Tom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any special memories with some of those travels?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.336238939352282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom being in the position that he was in, did you attend a lot of activities, entertaining?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With Tom? Yes, I traveled a good deal with Tom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any special memories with some of those travels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly. I can't recall any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you visit some of the other Centers other than Dryden, obviously, you were living in that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.151376599280313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With Tom? Yes, I traveled a good deal with Tom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any special memories with some of those travels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly. I can't recall any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you visit some of the other Centers other than Dryden, obviously, you were living in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think, what were some of them? I know we did, but I can't recall them now. I know we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other questions I was going to ask you. I know that Herbert was a pilot when he came back to Stanley, and you had mentioned to us before that he was down in South America working for Standard Oil [Company]. How did he apply for that, how did know about that job? Do you remember how he found out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.057085110311458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly. I can't recall any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you visit some of the other Centers other than Dryden, obviously, you were living in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think, what were some of them? I know we did, but I can't recall them now. I know we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other questions I was going to ask you. I know that Herbert was a pilot when he came back to Stanley, and you had mentioned to us before that he was down in South America working for Standard Oil [Company]. How did he apply for that, how did know about that job? Do you remember how he found out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did he get that job? [Referring to document] That tells all about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd he become a pilot during that time frame?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.841205678123843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think, what were some of them? I know we did, but I can't recall them now. I know we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other questions I was going to ask you. I know that Herbert was a pilot when he came back to Stanley, and you had mentioned to us before that he was down in South America working for Standard Oil [Company]. How did he apply for that, how did know about that job? Do you remember how he found out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did he get that job? [Referring to document] That tells all about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd he become a pilot during that time frame?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after he graduated from college, he said he was just walking down the street one day and he saw this sign, \"We need you,\" Uncle Sam said, \"Come on and join the Army Air Corps.\" Back then it was called the Army Air Corps. So he just decided to join the Army Air Corps. This tells about when he joined the Army Air Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nIt was 99th Bombardment Squadron."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.712450753470936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did he get that job? [Referring to document] That tells all about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd he become a pilot during that time frame?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after he graduated from college, he said he was just walking down the street one day and he saw this sign, \"We need you,\" Uncle Sam said, \"Come on and join the Army Air Corps.\" Back then it was called the Army Air Corps. So he just decided to join the Army Air Corps. This tells about when he joined the Army Air Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nIt was 99th Bombardment Squadron."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then he was to be fitted for airline pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read that, that he was going to go—was it American Airlines?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.124945281634372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after he graduated from college, he said he was just walking down the street one day and he saw this sign, \"We need you,\" Uncle Sam said, \"Come on and join the Army Air Corps.\" Back then it was called the Army Air Corps. So he just decided to join the Army Air Corps. This tells about when he joined the Army Air Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nIt was 99th Bombardment Squadron."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then he was to be fitted for airline pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read that, that he was going to go—was it American Airlines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. This is when he received the Octave Chanute Award or the Air Medal. A friend of his told him that there was this job available for Standard Oil Company. He would fly for different reasons there, and Herbert said it was more like a taxi cab driver except they were driving a plane. He got tired of that, and that's why he wanted to come back to the [United] States. As I recall, he told the people—I don't know who it was—the NACA people, that he would be willing to work for them for a year without pay just to get into the organization because it was such a wonderful organization. Tom felt the same way, he said it was a fabulous organization to be working for, and he felt so lucky to be a part of the NACA clientele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he train some of the other pilots coming up?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.472161424038191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then he was to be fitted for airline pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read that, that he was going to go—was it American Airlines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. This is when he received the Octave Chanute Award or the Air Medal. A friend of his told him that there was this job available for Standard Oil Company. He would fly for different reasons there, and Herbert said it was more like a taxi cab driver except they were driving a plane. He got tired of that, and that's why he wanted to come back to the [United] States. As I recall, he told the people—I don't know who it was—the NACA people, that he would be willing to work for them for a year without pay just to get into the organization because it was such a wonderful organization. Tom felt the same way, he said it was a fabulous organization to be working for, and he felt so lucky to be a part of the NACA clientele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he train some of the other pilots coming up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he trained, I think he helped with Bob Champine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think that's what I read, that he did train him. Or he was one of the ones that was instrumental in hiring him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8579571378202124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. This is when he received the Octave Chanute Award or the Air Medal. A friend of his told him that there was this job available for Standard Oil Company. He would fly for different reasons there, and Herbert said it was more like a taxi cab driver except they were driving a plane. He got tired of that, and that's why he wanted to come back to the [United] States. As I recall, he told the people—I don't know who it was—the NACA people, that he would be willing to work for them for a year without pay just to get into the organization because it was such a wonderful organization. Tom felt the same way, he said it was a fabulous organization to be working for, and he felt so lucky to be a part of the NACA clientele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he train some of the other pilots coming up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he trained, I think he helped with Bob Champine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think that's what I read, that he did train him. Or he was one of the ones that was instrumental in hiring him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another thing you were telling us, about when he would come to Stanley before you two were married, he would fly a plane around there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.286619042022458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he trained, I think he helped with Bob Champine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think that's what I read, that he did train him. Or he was one of the ones that was instrumental in hiring him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another thing you were telling us, about when he would come to Stanley before you two were married, he would fly a plane around there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would just rent a plane and just come and thought he'd fly around the old home place and see how things were going. He'd drop a note in my aunt's yard that said, \"Meet me at the airport at such-and-such time.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty confident that you'd be there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.76291004669162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another thing you were telling us, about when he would come to Stanley before you two were married, he would fly a plane around there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would just rent a plane and just come and thought he'd fly around the old home place and see how things were going. He'd drop a note in my aunt's yard that said, \"Meet me at the airport at such-and-such time.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty confident that you'd be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It said in here that he had flown over 100 different types of planes. And he was there the whole time during World War II, he was at Langley doing test flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.2921222741018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would just rent a plane and just come and thought he'd fly around the old home place and see how things were going. He'd drop a note in my aunt's yard that said, \"Meet me at the airport at such-and-such time.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty confident that you'd be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It said in here that he had flown over 100 different types of planes. And he was there the whole time during World War II, he was at Langley doing test flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you two have a concern that he would go to be as part of World War II action as a pilot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.769024749002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It said in here that he had flown over 100 different types of planes. And he was there the whole time during World War II, he was at Langley doing test flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you two have a concern that he would go to be as part of World War II action as a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he had to take a physical, but they decided that he would be more important working for—his work was more important. The same thing happened to Tom. In fact, Tom was drafted in World War II and he thought he was going to be sent somewhere else, but they sent him back to Langley and he was put in a barracks right across from his office at NACA. He was there for three months and they decided his work was more important than being in the service, so he moved back to his office. Tom said if he lived long enough, he would write about his career in the army—it was three months. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he doing the grants then, or what was he doing during that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.298916387779999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you two have a concern that he would go to be as part of World War II action as a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he had to take a physical, but they decided that he would be more important working for—his work was more important. The same thing happened to Tom. In fact, Tom was drafted in World War II and he thought he was going to be sent somewhere else, but they sent him back to Langley and he was put in a barracks right across from his office at NACA. He was there for three months and they decided his work was more important than being in the service, so he moved back to his office. Tom said if he lived long enough, he would write about his career in the army—it was three months. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he doing the grants then, or what was he doing during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It tells in his biography, I think. Grants and research. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom was in NACA and NASA at a very interesting time, since he was there during the transition."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.88768487531111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he had to take a physical, but they decided that he would be more important working for—his work was more important. The same thing happened to Tom. In fact, Tom was drafted in World War II and he thought he was going to be sent somewhere else, but they sent him back to Langley and he was put in a barracks right across from his office at NACA. He was there for three months and they decided his work was more important than being in the service, so he moved back to his office. Tom said if he lived long enough, he would write about his career in the army—it was three months. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he doing the grants then, or what was he doing during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It tells in his biography, I think. Grants and research. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom was in NACA and NASA at a very interesting time, since he was there during the transition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He said it was wonderful. You see, he was happy in his career, he really was. He said he was lucky to be working for such a wonderful organization. But I don't know, I was just being young and immature and everything, I just didn't realize how serious his job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well during that time period, a lot of times wives didn't always know what their husbands were doing or how dangerous those jobs were, because I think a lot of the men felt that they had to take care of this and they didn't bother them with it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.541872083679011, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It tells in his biography, I think. Grants and research. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom was in NACA and NASA at a very interesting time, since he was there during the transition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He said it was wonderful. You see, he was happy in his career, he really was. He said he was lucky to be working for such a wonderful organization. But I don't know, I was just being young and immature and everything, I just didn't realize how serious his job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well during that time period, a lot of times wives didn't always know what their husbands were doing or how dangerous those jobs were, because I think a lot of the men felt that they had to take care of this and they didn't bother them with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's our daughter [referring to photograph]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful. And what's her name?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.157635648532234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. He said it was wonderful. You see, he was happy in his career, he really was. He said he was lucky to be working for such a wonderful organization. But I don't know, I was just being young and immature and everything, I just didn't realize how serious his job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well during that time period, a lot of times wives didn't always know what their husbands were doing or how dangerous those jobs were, because I think a lot of the men felt that they had to take care of this and they didn't bother them with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's our daughter [referring to photograph]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful. And what's her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Susan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Susan. That's nice she's only an hour away from you, now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.730706276146926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's our daughter [referring to photograph]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful. And what's her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Susan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Susan. That's nice she's only an hour away from you, now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she's the one who lives in Yorktown now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. The book is nice to have all of this all in one place like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.367451417941029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Susan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Susan. That's nice she's only an hour away from you, now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she's the one who lives in Yorktown now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. The book is nice to have all of this all in one place like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just little mementos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, this is nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.963834908823365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she's the one who lives in Yorktown now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. The book is nice to have all of this all in one place like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just little mementos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, this is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's my aunt that Herbert's father married. She was celebrating her 93rd birthday, and in the article in there, she said, \"It's no fun growing old.\" It sure isn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting name. Wixie [phonetic]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6264832320259615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just little mementos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, this is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's my aunt that Herbert's father married. She was celebrating her 93rd birthday, and in the article in there, she said, \"It's no fun growing old.\" It sure isn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting name. Wixie [phonetic]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wixie. I don't know where she got that name.\\n\\n That's my daughter and her two little children. That’s her grandson. Of course, they've grown up and married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time flies, doesn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.2516480355844015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's my aunt that Herbert's father married. She was celebrating her 93rd birthday, and in the article in there, she said, \"It's no fun growing old.\" It sure isn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting name. Wixie [phonetic]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wixie. I don't know where she got that name.\\n\\n That's my daughter and her two little children. That’s her grandson. Of course, they've grown up and married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time flies, doesn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear, don't tell me. This is when he got the Air Medal—President [Harry S.] Truman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, you mentioned that to me on the phone."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.835164483982668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wixie. I don't know where she got that name.\\n\\n That's my daughter and her two little children. That’s her grandson. Of course, they've grown up and married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time flies, doesn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear, don't tell me. This is when he got the Air Medal—President [Harry S.] Truman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, you mentioned that to me on the phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "President Truman signed it. I gave it to my son, he has a trophy and all that, he has it framed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there for the presentation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.483516093314075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear, don't tell me. This is when he got the Air Medal—President [Harry S.] Truman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, you mentioned that to me on the phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "President Truman signed it. I gave it to my son, he has a trophy and all that, he has it framed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there for the presentation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that day. What was it like to meet the President?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.203906770348973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "President Truman signed it. I gave it to my son, he has a trophy and all that, he has it framed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there for the presentation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that day. What was it like to meet the President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was exciting. Of course, the President wasn't there, no. He just signed [the award]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this at Langley, the presentation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.004340855943303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that day. What was it like to meet the President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was exciting. Of course, the President wasn't there, no. He just signed [the award]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this at Langley, the presentation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Langley, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the only one getting a medal that day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.893712062159224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was exciting. Of course, the President wasn't there, no. He just signed [the award]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this at Langley, the presentation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Langley, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the only one getting a medal that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice, a ceremony just for him.\n\nYes, that is nice. What year was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.770791180176914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Langley, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the only one getting a medal that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice, a ceremony just for him.\n\nYes, that is nice. What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, '40 -- I don't know. I think it tells it somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll find it. I'm sure it's in there.\n\n'49 was the Air Medal."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.745323533529904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice, a ceremony just for him.\n\nYes, that is nice. What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, '40 -- I don't know. I think it tells it somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll find it. I'm sure it's in there.\n\n'49 was the Air Medal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1949 he was awarded the Air Medal for the flight that he did in 1948 when he broke the sound barrier."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.828137259477671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, '40 -- I don't know. I think it tells it somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll find it. I'm sure it's in there.\n\n'49 was the Air Medal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1949 he was awarded the Air Medal for the flight that he did in 1948 when he broke the sound barrier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the Octave Chanute Award, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also 1948.\n\nThese are wonderful pictures. Was this when he graduated from the Advanced Flying School? Oh, that's so nice. Kelly Field, Texas."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.809041399419634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1949 he was awarded the Air Medal for the flight that he did in 1948 when he broke the sound barrier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the Octave Chanute Award, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also 1948.\n\nThese are wonderful pictures. Was this when he graduated from the Advanced Flying School? Oh, that's so nice. Kelly Field, Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was at Kelly Field. Then he was at San Antonio [Texas], too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He must have been at Randolph [Air Force Base].\n\nAre there any other stories that you can think of, or anything about that time period? Maybe about your neighborhood or some of the people you knew, that you'd like to share? Maybe talk about the way things looked, or some of the activities that you did together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.565601554910705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the Octave Chanute Award, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also 1948.\n\nThese are wonderful pictures. Was this when he graduated from the Advanced Flying School? Oh, that's so nice. Kelly Field, Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was at Kelly Field. Then he was at San Antonio [Texas], too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He must have been at Randolph [Air Force Base].\n\nAre there any other stories that you can think of, or anything about that time period? Maybe about your neighborhood or some of the people you knew, that you'd like to share? Maybe talk about the way things looked, or some of the activities that you did together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of any. We were only married ten years. Just so much. He was so busy flying and with his work and everything.\\n\\n Oh, we had planned to go to Nag's Head [North Carolina] the weekend that the accident happened. We had already made reservations. I said, \"We don't ever do anything as a family. We've got to get together as a family.\" So we decided to make a trip, take the kids and go. And then, of course, we weren't able to go. But we weren't too family-oriented because he was so busy with his job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure he was up early and gone in the morning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.406223949900783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was at Kelly Field. Then he was at San Antonio [Texas], too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He must have been at Randolph [Air Force Base].\n\nAre there any other stories that you can think of, or anything about that time period? Maybe about your neighborhood or some of the people you knew, that you'd like to share? Maybe talk about the way things looked, or some of the activities that you did together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of any. We were only married ten years. Just so much. He was so busy flying and with his work and everything.\\n\\n Oh, we had planned to go to Nag's Head [North Carolina] the weekend that the accident happened. We had already made reservations. I said, \"We don't ever do anything as a family. We've got to get together as a family.\" So we decided to make a trip, take the kids and go. And then, of course, we weren't able to go. But we weren't too family-oriented because he was so busy with his job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure he was up early and gone in the morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was away lots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's quite a demanding job. It took a lot out of a lot of people, I'm sure.\n\nWell, it's nice that your family's coming in to go to the [NACA] reunion this weekend."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.1434863579022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was away lots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's quite a demanding job. It took a lot out of a lot of people, I'm sure.\n\nWell, it's nice that your family's coming in to go to the [NACA] reunion this weekend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My son and daughter are coming because I wanted them to join me. But we're just going to be there for the little banquet. It's at the Reed Center. Do you know where the Reed Center is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's on the field, it's at Langley, but where is it located? I’m sure they'll tell us as we drive up to the gate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stay on that entrance road as you go in, and just keep on the same road, and it's on the right-hand side."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:162", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.048318175446887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My son and daughter are coming because I wanted them to join me. But we're just going to be there for the little banquet. It's at the Reed Center. Do you know where the Reed Center is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's on the field, it's at Langley, but where is it located? I’m sure they'll tell us as we drive up to the gate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stay on that entrance road as you go in, and just keep on the same road, and it's on the right-hand side."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? The Reed Center?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not hard to find."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.942575750496541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's on the field, it's at Langley, but where is it located? I’m sure they'll tell us as we drive up to the gate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stay on that entrance road as you go in, and just keep on the same road, and it's on the right-hand side."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? The Reed Center?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not hard to find."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were just wondering. Hank called me last night and wanted to know if I had the directions on how to get there. I said, \"No, they'll tell us at the gate as we drive in.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't need to know right now. That's the other thing we learn as we go through life. Some things you just don't need to know right now.\n\nYes, until it's time.\n\nWell, I'm sure you’ll have a good time visiting with lots of folks. Did he ever take you back up in the airplane? You said he took you for that first ride."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.713973056107267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? The Reed Center?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not hard to find."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were just wondering. Hank called me last night and wanted to know if I had the directions on how to get there. I said, \"No, they'll tell us at the gate as we drive in.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't need to know right now. That's the other thing we learn as we go through life. Some things you just don't need to know right now.\n\nYes, until it's time.\n\nWell, I'm sure you’ll have a good time visiting with lots of folks. Did he ever take you back up in the airplane? You said he took you for that first ride."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time, on one of his trips out to California, Edwards and Muroc, the kids and I flew out to Knoxville to be with his dad and my aunt, and on the way home, Herbert picked us up so we flew with him then. That's the only time, but he kept saying \"Later on, we'll buy our own plane and we'll have family trips.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were the children that time when he flew you all home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.459970062341407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were just wondering. Hank called me last night and wanted to know if I had the directions on how to get there. I said, \"No, they'll tell us at the gate as we drive in.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't need to know right now. That's the other thing we learn as we go through life. Some things you just don't need to know right now.\n\nYes, until it's time.\n\nWell, I'm sure you’ll have a good time visiting with lots of folks. Did he ever take you back up in the airplane? You said he took you for that first ride."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time, on one of his trips out to California, Edwards and Muroc, the kids and I flew out to Knoxville to be with his dad and my aunt, and on the way home, Herbert picked us up so we flew with him then. That's the only time, but he kept saying \"Later on, we'll buy our own plane and we'll have family trips.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were the children that time when he flew you all home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Hank hadn't even started first grade when he was killed. I think Susan was only eight or nine, she was in about third grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been pretty exciting for them, to come home in a plane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:172", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.288855624823785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time, on one of his trips out to California, Edwards and Muroc, the kids and I flew out to Knoxville to be with his dad and my aunt, and on the way home, Herbert picked us up so we flew with him then. That's the only time, but he kept saying \"Later on, we'll buy our own plane and we'll have family trips.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were the children that time when he flew you all home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Hank hadn't even started first grade when he was killed. I think Susan was only eight or nine, she was in about third grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been pretty exciting for them, to come home in a plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These are some of the planes he flew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.987617360915317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Hank hadn't even started first grade when he was killed. I think Susan was only eight or nine, she was in about third grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been pretty exciting for them, to come home in a plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These are some of the planes he flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have the Naval Air Station here, and that’s Oceana. So we had planes flying around here all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get just used to the noise, don't you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.764019289905908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These are some of the planes he flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have the Naval Air Station here, and that’s Oceana. So we had planes flying around here all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get just used to the noise, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Used to it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy living up in Alexandria?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.626688099895453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have the Naval Air Station here, and that’s Oceana. So we had planes flying around here all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get just used to the noise, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Used to it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy living up in Alexandria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved Alexandria. It's a pretty, pretty town. So much history there. It's a beautiful, beautiful place, it really is. Yes, I liked Alexandria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you had a home on Admiral Drive?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3629867776616145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Used to it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy living up in Alexandria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved Alexandria. It's a pretty, pretty town. So much history there. It's a beautiful, beautiful place, it really is. Yes, I liked Alexandria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you had a home on Admiral Drive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Admiral Drive. It was right on the Mount Vernon Parkway down towards Mount Vernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to explore the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.181096419624016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved Alexandria. It's a pretty, pretty town. So much history there. It's a beautiful, beautiful place, it really is. Yes, I liked Alexandria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you had a home on Admiral Drive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Admiral Drive. It was right on the Mount Vernon Parkway down towards Mount Vernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to explore the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we used to ride our bicycles down on the bike trail to Mount Vernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is very pretty, especially when all those cherry trees start to bloom."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.090107132915573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Admiral Drive. It was right on the Mount Vernon Parkway down towards Mount Vernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to explore the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we used to ride our bicycles down on the bike trail to Mount Vernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is very pretty, especially when all those cherry trees start to bloom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, beautiful, beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he fly helicopters?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.000132262858733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, beautiful, beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he fly helicopters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think he flew helicopters. Jack Reeder took us on a flight in a helicopter one time, but I don't think Herbert flew the helicopters, I don't think. Did you all know Jack Reeder?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Francis died just about two—I guess she's been gone a couple years now. Did you all ever meet Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I take it you have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.000146958731925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think he flew helicopters. Jack Reeder took us on a flight in a helicopter one time, but I don't think Herbert flew the helicopters, I don't think. Did you all know Jack Reeder?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Francis died just about two—I guess she's been gone a couple years now. Did you all ever meet Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I take it you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't speak very nicely of the NACA pilots. He was a guy who did it all, not the rest of them. He said later on in his book that he's written, “Later on, two of them were killed,” like they didn't know what they were doing. You know, Howard Lilly and Herbert Hoover. But he came through it all, he knew what he was doing, but he didn't speak highly of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's such a shame, when they were all trying to achieve the same thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.777941065257694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Francis died just about two—I guess she's been gone a couple years now. Did you all ever meet Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I take it you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't speak very nicely of the NACA pilots. He was a guy who did it all, not the rest of them. He said later on in his book that he's written, “Later on, two of them were killed,” like they didn't know what they were doing. You know, Howard Lilly and Herbert Hoover. But he came through it all, he knew what he was doing, but he didn't speak highly of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's such a shame, when they were all trying to achieve the same thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think Gloria Champine feels the same way. There was an article that Chuck Yeager wrote that was not all true, and Gloria corrected it. She wrote him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her.\n\nShe seems to be recording a lot of information."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.531045628064104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't speak very nicely of the NACA pilots. He was a guy who did it all, not the rest of them. He said later on in his book that he's written, “Later on, two of them were killed,” like they didn't know what they were doing. You know, Howard Lilly and Herbert Hoover. But he came through it all, he knew what he was doing, but he didn't speak highly of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's such a shame, when they were all trying to achieve the same thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think Gloria Champine feels the same way. There was an article that Chuck Yeager wrote that was not all true, and Gloria corrected it. She wrote him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her.\n\nShe seems to be recording a lot of information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. Have you seen this? [Flight Research at Nasa Langley Research Center, by Mark A. Chambers]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I've heard about it, and I wanted to get a copy of it, but we haven't seen it yet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1456062534045595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think Gloria Champine feels the same way. There was an article that Chuck Yeager wrote that was not all true, and Gloria corrected it. She wrote him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her.\n\nShe seems to be recording a lot of information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. Have you seen this? [Flight Research at Nasa Langley Research Center, by Mark A. Chambers]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I've heard about it, and I wanted to get a copy of it, but we haven't seen it yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent Steve [Stefan A. Cavallo] a book. “A very nostalgic picture of Herb and all the others, long ago.” He said, \"There aren't many of us left standing.\" \"Look forward to seeing you.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Tell him hello for us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.828451392671733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. Have you seen this? [Flight Research at Nasa Langley Research Center, by Mark A. Chambers]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I've heard about it, and I wanted to get a copy of it, but we haven't seen it yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent Steve [Stefan A. Cavallo] a book. “A very nostalgic picture of Herb and all the others, long ago.” He said, \"There aren't many of us left standing.\" \"Look forward to seeing you.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Tell him hello for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that, you can get that at any of the bookstores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to have to look for that while we're here. I knew that they had done one, we've talked to the publishing company and I knew they had done one, so we'll have to see if we can find one.\n\nI would imagine too, that the NACA pilots that were at Langley tended not to get the recognition that the pilots did over at Muroc or Dryden, because they were here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5871682140797025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent Steve [Stefan A. Cavallo] a book. “A very nostalgic picture of Herb and all the others, long ago.” He said, \"There aren't many of us left standing.\" \"Look forward to seeing you.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Tell him hello for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that, you can get that at any of the bookstores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to have to look for that while we're here. I knew that they had done one, we've talked to the publishing company and I knew they had done one, so we'll have to see if we can find one.\n\nI would imagine too, that the NACA pilots that were at Langley tended not to get the recognition that the pilots did over at Muroc or Dryden, because they were here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. It's always the one that does it the first time gets the most recognition. That's why Chuck Yeager has gotten such recognition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then there was a competition between the Air Force and then the civilian pilots, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.366874338370001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. It's always the one that does it the first time gets the most recognition. That's why Chuck Yeager has gotten such recognition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then there was a competition between the Air Force and then the civilian pilots, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Have you ever read the book by Chuck Yeager?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well don't. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right.\n\nWe'll take your word for it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.963193709300001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Have you ever read the book by Chuck Yeager?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well don't. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right.\n\nWe'll take your word for it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's his book. But he's the one. He's the one that knew what he was doing. He didn't get killed. You know the book, The Right Stuff [by Tom Wolfe]? Herbert was mentioned in that, in the book The Right Stuff. I don't think he was mentioned in the movie. Have you ever visited Muroc or Edwards Air Force base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have been out there, yes. So we knew what you were talking about with the Antelope Valley environment. It is a little warm. It's just dry."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.016288530000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's his book. But he's the one. He's the one that knew what he was doing. He didn't get killed. You know the book, The Right Stuff [by Tom Wolfe]? Herbert was mentioned in that, in the book The Right Stuff. I don't think he was mentioned in the movie. Have you ever visited Muroc or Edwards Air Force base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have been out there, yes. So we knew what you were talking about with the Antelope Valley environment. It is a little warm. It's just dry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Have you ever heard about Walt Williams?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was an outstanding engineer.\\n\\n [interruption]\n\nThis is what he says. \"I never could figure out why the most arrogant bunch at Edwards were the NACA pilots.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Yeager writing [in Yeager, an Autobiography]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.351431700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Have you ever heard about Walt Williams?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was an outstanding engineer.\\n\\n [interruption]\n\nThis is what he says. \"I never could figure out why the most arrogant bunch at Edwards were the NACA pilots.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Yeager writing [in Yeager, an Autobiography]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"The National Advisory Committee of Aeronautics had got into the flight test business while I was still flying the X-1. They bought a second X-1 and hired civilian test pilots to fly it. I flew it first, checked it out, then turned it over to them. Their two pilots took turns cracking the gear on landing. The X-1 demanded an experienced fighter pilot at the grounds, and those two just weren't qualified to fly it. Both of them were later killed.\" I mean, isn't that arrogant, to say that? \"Both of them were later killed. They didn't know what they were doing,” he said. I can't stand that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just keep the book around so you can push it away? (laughter)"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.723813000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was an outstanding engineer.\\n\\n [interruption]\n\nThis is what he says. \"I never could figure out why the most arrogant bunch at Edwards were the NACA pilots.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Yeager writing [in Yeager, an Autobiography]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"The National Advisory Committee of Aeronautics had got into the flight test business while I was still flying the X-1. They bought a second X-1 and hired civilian test pilots to fly it. I flew it first, checked it out, then turned it over to them. Their two pilots took turns cracking the gear on landing. The X-1 demanded an experienced fighter pilot at the grounds, and those two just weren't qualified to fly it. Both of them were later killed.\" I mean, isn't that arrogant, to say that? \"Both of them were later killed. They didn't know what they were doing,” he said. I can't stand that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just keep the book around so you can push it away? (laughter)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To think that's what he would he would say. Well, he was just—I don't mean this in a bad way either—but he was not educated like in engineering and doing the research work. He was just a real gutsy guy that could get up there and fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a pilot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.137570000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"The National Advisory Committee of Aeronautics had got into the flight test business while I was still flying the X-1. They bought a second X-1 and hired civilian test pilots to fly it. I flew it first, checked it out, then turned it over to them. Their two pilots took turns cracking the gear on landing. The X-1 demanded an experienced fighter pilot at the grounds, and those two just weren't qualified to fly it. Both of them were later killed.\" I mean, isn't that arrogant, to say that? \"Both of them were later killed. They didn't know what they were doing,” he said. I can't stand that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just keep the book around so you can push it away? (laughter)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To think that's what he would he would say. Well, he was just—I don't mean this in a bad way either—but he was not educated like in engineering and doing the research work. He was just a real gutsy guy that could get up there and fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a daring devil. I don't take that away from him, but why should he criticize the ones that were trained? I think Herbert did most of the research on that X-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sells books."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.597300000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To think that's what he would he would say. Well, he was just—I don't mean this in a bad way either—but he was not educated like in engineering and doing the research work. He was just a real gutsy guy that could get up there and fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a daring devil. I don't take that away from him, but why should he criticize the ones that were trained? I think Herbert did most of the research on that X-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sells books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see the X-1 plane? Did you see the planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9970000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a daring devil. I don't take that away from him, but why should he criticize the ones that were trained? I think Herbert did most of the research on that X-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sells books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see the X-1 plane? Did you see the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it at the museum in Washington. The one called the [Glamorous] Glennis. Yeager named it for his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see any of the planes that Herbert flew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see the X-1 plane? Did you see the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it at the museum in Washington. The one called the [Glamorous] Glennis. Yeager named it for his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see any of the planes that Herbert flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw the P-1. That was his favorite plane. He flew some out at Langley when they had air shows, and I was out there when he had some shows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went out to watch the air shows and he was flying some of the planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it at the museum in Washington. The one called the [Glamorous] Glennis. Yeager named it for his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see any of the planes that Herbert flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw the P-1. That was his favorite plane. He flew some out at Langley when they had air shows, and I was out there when he had some shows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went out to watch the air shows and he was flying some of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went out when he was flying. There was an air show that he participated in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw the P-1. That was his favorite plane. He flew some out at Langley when they had air shows, and I was out there when he had some shows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went out to watch the air shows and he was flying some of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went out when he was flying. There was an air show that he participated in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of people were there that day. A long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's still lots of people at air shows."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went out when he was flying. There was an air show that he participated in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of people were there that day. A long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's still lots of people at air shows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Herbert's been gone almost 60 years. You know, he was killed in '52. And this is 2008. It's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else in the family fly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of people were there that day. A long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's still lots of people at air shows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Herbert's been gone almost 60 years. You know, he was killed in '52. And this is 2008. It's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else in the family fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No other pilots?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00985:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Herbert's been gone almost 60 years. You know, he was killed in '52. And this is 2008. It's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else in the family fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No other pilots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my son was never interested, it never appealed to him. I don't know what got Herbert so interested in it, but just he joined the Army Air Corps and was trained and liked it. That's what he said. He was thrilled to work at NACA. I remember his saying that, after he gave up his job in South America, he offered to come and work for them without payment for a while just to just to get the job with NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We appreciate you giving us the time today to talk to us and to look through all your albums and everything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.60245550680218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once again, yes. But it’s also interesting to note that this was about, what, twenty-seven years ago now? And there were some predictions at that time that we would totally run out of petroleum resources within twenty years. Jack, being a geologist, was one of the people who clearly didn’t believe those studies. He said, “There’s more petroleum in the ground than we know about. We just haven’t found it. It may be hard to find and it may not be very economical to recover, but there’s a lot there.\" But it doesn’t mean that we should rely on that. If we can come up with things like wind power. And we even looked at tides for a while, because that’s a real interesting concept, that tides are free just like the wind. You can generate electricity with tides, but it’s an expensive process. It’s still not economical to do. It was an interesting sidelight, away from pure space business, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s certainly something that has a lot of applications to the Earth as a whole."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we're going to need a lot of that when we go to Mars. We’re going to have to generate our own electricity there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and hopefully, with recent progress and discoveries being made there, maybe that’ll happen a little sooner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if there really is water there, that sheds a whole new light. I’m very encouraged by that. I hope it’s true, and I hope it inspires some people to be a little more aggressive about the possibility of sending people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly is exciting news. That would, I would hope, help spur things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.336061674224645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we're going to need a lot of that when we go to Mars. We’re going to have to generate our own electricity there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and hopefully, with recent progress and discoveries being made there, maybe that’ll happen a little sooner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if there really is water there, that sheds a whole new light. I’m very encouraged by that. I hope it’s true, and I hope it inspires some people to be a little more aggressive about the possibility of sending people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly is exciting news. That would, I would hope, help spur things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We should go find out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. You say that then after you had worked here for a while and as they were forming the Department of Energy, about that time was when you came back down to Houston."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 41.484512971360715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if there really is water there, that sheds a whole new light. I’m very encouraged by that. I hope it’s true, and I hope it inspires some people to be a little more aggressive about the possibility of sending people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly is exciting news. That would, I would hope, help spur things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We should go find out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. You say that then after you had worked here for a while and as they were forming the Department of Energy, about that time was when you came back down to Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned that earlier when you were first proposing the idea for the Office of Energy, that both you and Jack Schmitt had been interested in coming back down here at some point anyway. How then did that come about? Was it again contacting somebody and saying, \"Okay, I’m ready for another move\"?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.691329265907534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. The Canadians came up with a very good concept for how you could test the actual arm in a 1-G environment, because, as you said, it’s just not strong enough to support its own weight in 1-G. It would break. You can’t operate it. So they laid it down sideways on an air-bearing floor, on a very smooth, perfectly smooth floor, with little air jet pads to hold it up. So rather than being up like this, it’s laying on its side, but then you could actually control the arm in a 1-G environment, you know, move it around. Of course, we had computer-based simulations also that were eventually developed that [would simulate] that.\\n\\n We started out with a model over in Building 9—9A, I guess it is—where we used helium-filled balloons that would simulate the payloads. That’s pretty good, but it’s not obviously an accurate representation of zero-G, but it’s about as close to the real thing. If you wanted to actually get into the real cockpit and use an arm, which in this case doesn’t even look like the arm that flies on the Shuttle because it had to be beefed up a lot to do that, you could give the crews some simulation experience on retrieving and deploying payloads, which [helped with] primarily the visual cues. We spent a lot of time in building that and developing targets for the end effector, and visual cues and mirrors and cameras in the payload bay and cameras on the arm. We had to decide where do you put cameras on the arm that would give the operator the best view of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, certainly it sounds like an interesting job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was a fun project. I enjoyed that. I think I enjoyed it somewhat just because people said it was impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s the most fun, making the impossible possible. And here you had originally not even known what RMS was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew there was some mechanical arm, but that’s about all I knew. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came up to speed pretty quickly on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.657032517675038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was a fun project. I enjoyed that. I think I enjoyed it somewhat just because people said it was impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s the most fun, making the impossible possible. And here you had originally not even known what RMS was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew there was some mechanical arm, but that’s about all I knew. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came up to speed pretty quickly on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s typical again of Chris Kraft, to find somebody who’s not prejudiced about something and say, \"Go fix it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a good type of person to pick, because they can go in open-minded and say, \"Okay, what can we do with this?\""}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.841147241861155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew there was some mechanical arm, but that’s about all I knew. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came up to speed pretty quickly on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s typical again of Chris Kraft, to find somebody who’s not prejudiced about something and say, \"Go fix it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a good type of person to pick, because they can go in open-minded and say, \"Okay, what can we do with this?\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris has a knack for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, you moved on and you were involved with the Shuttle Program as a whole, the space transportation program, and getting into manifests. You were Deputy Manager of the Operations program there for a while. Did that all kind of come logically from your involvement with the arm and then previously with the policies and such?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.71238582429017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s typical again of Chris Kraft, to find somebody who’s not prejudiced about something and say, \"Go fix it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a good type of person to pick, because they can go in open-minded and say, \"Okay, what can we do with this?\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris has a knack for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, you moved on and you were involved with the Shuttle Program as a whole, the space transportation program, and getting into manifests. You were Deputy Manager of the Operations program there for a while. Did that all kind of come logically from your involvement with the arm and then previously with the policies and such?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was logical. It’s another one of those funny things. Glynn Lunney showed up in the office one day and said, \"I’ve been offered a job in Headquarters as Deputy Assistant Administrator for Space Flight, and I’m really considering it. You spent a couple of years in Washington. Tell me about Headquarters and about living there. Where did you live?\" and all of that. So we talked for probably a couple of hours about all of that. He said, “Well, I’m kind of inclined to take this job, and, oh, by the way, I’ve already talked to Chris, and if I take this, then you’re going to come up and take over my job while I’m gone.”\\n\\n I said, “Well, thanks for telling me that.” [Laughter]\\n\\n So he went to Washington, and while he was gone, I guess I was originally Acting Manager of SPIDO, Shuttle Payload Integration and Development Office. Then sometime, I think before Glynn came back, we changed the name to STS Operations, which was Space Transportation System Operations, which was probably more descriptive of what we were doing, because we were involved in things other than just the payload integration at that time—how do you actually operate the Shuttle. So, yes, that’s another one of those stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You always seem to be in the right place at the right time for these jobs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.791539804766856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris has a knack for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, you moved on and you were involved with the Shuttle Program as a whole, the space transportation program, and getting into manifests. You were Deputy Manager of the Operations program there for a while. Did that all kind of come logically from your involvement with the arm and then previously with the policies and such?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was logical. It’s another one of those funny things. Glynn Lunney showed up in the office one day and said, \"I’ve been offered a job in Headquarters as Deputy Assistant Administrator for Space Flight, and I’m really considering it. You spent a couple of years in Washington. Tell me about Headquarters and about living there. Where did you live?\" and all of that. So we talked for probably a couple of hours about all of that. He said, “Well, I’m kind of inclined to take this job, and, oh, by the way, I’ve already talked to Chris, and if I take this, then you’re going to come up and take over my job while I’m gone.”\\n\\n I said, “Well, thanks for telling me that.” [Laughter]\\n\\n So he went to Washington, and while he was gone, I guess I was originally Acting Manager of SPIDO, Shuttle Payload Integration and Development Office. Then sometime, I think before Glynn came back, we changed the name to STS Operations, which was Space Transportation System Operations, which was probably more descriptive of what we were doing, because we were involved in things other than just the payload integration at that time—how do you actually operate the Shuttle. So, yes, that’s another one of those stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You always seem to be in the right place at the right time for these jobs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or the wrong place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were more involved in operations as a whole, for the whole Shuttle then at that point. This was before the Shuttle actually began flying."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.84600511583949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be possible, but, yes, it would be very involved. That’s why, even until today, you really want to land at Kennedy, because that’s where you have to process it. We landed once at White Sands. Boy, what a mess. I think they’re probably still getting sand out of the vehicle. But, yes, it would be a real challenge to get it back home, but obviously possible or it wouldn’t be planned that way. The Shuttle carrier aircraft, in fact, at least once has flown to Europe. It went to the Paris Air Show one year. It’s possible, but it’s not something that you would really like to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But certainly if it is an abort situation, you want to get them down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. But the price you would have to pay to get it back is worth it if you save the vehicle and the crew. That’s something you have to plan for that you hope you never have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you plan for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were working through all of this and still being involved somewhat with what the Shuttle was going to be carrying, as well as the operations of it, and this was again so different from everything that had been done before, and you were [involved with] working with a lot of different agencies and so forth, did all of this come together without a lot of—obviously there was a lot of challenges and a lot of difficulties going into it and in even early testing on the Shuttle, but were there a lot of changes along the way, I guess, is what I’m asking, by the time that you came into it? Or were things pretty well settling down into the way—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.90333852433392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, as long as there’s any question about—there’s been a lot of discussion over the years about if we really are going to have a space transportation system [we'll] take it away from NASA and give it to the Transportation Department or somebody. Of course, it wouldn’t help the other agencies, like NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration], for example. They wouldn’t like that any better than NASA probably. And even though there’s probably some good arguments that that would be a good thing to do, even people within NASA are reluctant to give it up. But if it’s just pure transportation, I guess I would have to agree that that’s not NASA’s business. Somebody else can operate the Shuttle just as well as we can. It kind of hurts to say that, but it’s true. NASA’s job should be exploration and research that leads to that. I’m afraid we’ve gotten kind of bogged down with boring holes in the sky with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have been doing that for quite a few years now. Maybe as Space Station begins to actually move along—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—that’ll help spur things and continuing discoveries on flights like Mars and such things maybe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed involved with the Shuttle for quite a while and moved into a couple of different roles, eventually moving up to Deputy Manager of the Space Shuttle Program. Was this change in the name of—where you still involved in the same types of work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.670376138148796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—that’ll help spur things and continuing discoveries on flights like Mars and such things maybe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed involved with the Shuttle for quite a while and moved into a couple of different roles, eventually moving up to Deputy Manager of the Space Shuttle Program. Was this change in the name of—where you still involved in the same types of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more or less the same thing. It came time after the development flights of the Shuttle that the Shuttle—see, we still had the Shuttle Program Office headed by Bob Thompson, and the Space Transportation System Operations Office headed by Glynn Lunney. But after the development flights of the Shuttle, the first four flights, it was time to consolidate all of that into one, because then it was the job of continuing some development on the Shuttle to build more and to make a few changes, but really to operate it. So it was not a big change at the time.\\n\\n I continued doing more or less what I’d been doing. The title changed. Deputy Manager for Operations, [Arnold D.] Arnie Aldrich, came over and was—I’ve forgotten exactly what his title was, but it was Deputy Manager, Technical. He was more concerned with hardware, the development of the Orbiter and external tanks and the SRBs, and all of the hardware. Glynn Lunney was the overall manager. As far as I was concerned, it was more or less a continuation of the same thing that we’d been doing for the last couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance during any of this time to go down and see any of the launches?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.522640153498664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed involved with the Shuttle for quite a while and moved into a couple of different roles, eventually moving up to Deputy Manager of the Space Shuttle Program. Was this change in the name of—where you still involved in the same types of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more or less the same thing. It came time after the development flights of the Shuttle that the Shuttle—see, we still had the Shuttle Program Office headed by Bob Thompson, and the Space Transportation System Operations Office headed by Glynn Lunney. But after the development flights of the Shuttle, the first four flights, it was time to consolidate all of that into one, because then it was the job of continuing some development on the Shuttle to build more and to make a few changes, but really to operate it. So it was not a big change at the time.\\n\\n I continued doing more or less what I’d been doing. The title changed. Deputy Manager for Operations, [Arnold D.] Arnie Aldrich, came over and was—I’ve forgotten exactly what his title was, but it was Deputy Manager, Technical. He was more concerned with hardware, the development of the Orbiter and external tanks and the SRBs, and all of the hardware. Glynn Lunney was the overall manager. As far as I was concerned, it was more or less a continuation of the same thing that we’d been doing for the last couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance during any of this time to go down and see any of the launches?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not a lot, but enough. I never saw a night launch, which I really would—I wish I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s still time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.929185374689705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not a lot, but enough. I never saw a night launch, which I really would—I wish I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s still time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I have to do that. Yes, and it was kind of fun to go back. I didn’t witness any Apollo launches, because I was in the control center here, and I really missed being in the control center at the Cape when we first started out with Mercury, because you could hear it and you could feel it. The building even would shake. So I kind of missed that all during Apollo. I never, unfortunately, got to see an Apollo launch.\\n\\n I saw one Skylab launch. I went down with Dr. Fletcher when I was working with him. We rode the vehicle out from the vertical assembly building out to the pad. Well, actually we only went about half way because it…takes a long time, but that was interesting, and then we saw the launch.\\n\\n I saw a couple of early Shuttle launches. It was more reminiscent of the Gemini-Titan launches because of the solid rocket boosters. They make a very distinctive sound. It’s like the whole air is cracking. It’s a very sharp, distinctive cracking sound. That brought back a lot of memories.\\n\\n But Shuttle launches still, even today, I remember the STS-1…launch. I had worked in the trajectory world most of my life designing launch profiles, and I obviously had worked on the Shuttle and I knew exactly what was going to happen, but when it’s unsymmetrical, when it lifts off and this unsymmetrical thing starts rotating around, it still looks kind of strange to me. Still haven’t gotten over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s understandable, I think. Must have been rewarding to see it all come together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I would like to go see a night launch. Have do that sometime, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there are still a few contacts that you can make the arrangements."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.921317082988562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I have to do that. Yes, and it was kind of fun to go back. I didn’t witness any Apollo launches, because I was in the control center here, and I really missed being in the control center at the Cape when we first started out with Mercury, because you could hear it and you could feel it. The building even would shake. So I kind of missed that all during Apollo. I never, unfortunately, got to see an Apollo launch.\\n\\n I saw one Skylab launch. I went down with Dr. Fletcher when I was working with him. We rode the vehicle out from the vertical assembly building out to the pad. Well, actually we only went about half way because it…takes a long time, but that was interesting, and then we saw the launch.\\n\\n I saw a couple of early Shuttle launches. It was more reminiscent of the Gemini-Titan launches because of the solid rocket boosters. They make a very distinctive sound. It’s like the whole air is cracking. It’s a very sharp, distinctive cracking sound. That brought back a lot of memories.\\n\\n But Shuttle launches still, even today, I remember the STS-1…launch. I had worked in the trajectory world most of my life designing launch profiles, and I obviously had worked on the Shuttle and I knew exactly what was going to happen, but when it’s unsymmetrical, when it lifts off and this unsymmetrical thing starts rotating around, it still looks kind of strange to me. Still haven’t gotten over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s understandable, I think. Must have been rewarding to see it all come together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I would like to go see a night launch. Have do that sometime, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there are still a few contacts that you can make the arrangements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully so. Hopefully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an interesting sight to see. Then you moved in to be Director of Mission Support. Obviously this is for Shuttle missions, but what was that? What were your duties there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.023685647765067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I would like to go see a night launch. Have do that sometime, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there are still a few contacts that you can make the arrangements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully so. Hopefully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an interesting sight to see. Then you moved in to be Director of Mission Support. Obviously this is for Shuttle missions, but what was that? What were your duties there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerry Griffin was the center director at that time, and he decided that it would be better if he didn’t have as many people reporting directly to him. So he kind of reorganized the center and grouped several directorates or divisions up together and formed this thing called mission support, that included five divisions: mission planning, flight simulation, flight software, flight support, which was the control center, and data systems, which had responsibility for operating all the computers around the center.\\n\\n But the job was to provide the facilities for both training and execution of the Shuttle flights. That was primarily the Shuttle mission simulator and the control center. But then, in addition, to do the flight software and the mission planning for the Shuttle flights. Probably one of the best jobs I ever had. I really enjoyed that job. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly sounds like it would be interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.359650719738962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully so. Hopefully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an interesting sight to see. Then you moved in to be Director of Mission Support. Obviously this is for Shuttle missions, but what was that? What were your duties there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerry Griffin was the center director at that time, and he decided that it would be better if he didn’t have as many people reporting directly to him. So he kind of reorganized the center and grouped several directorates or divisions up together and formed this thing called mission support, that included five divisions: mission planning, flight simulation, flight software, flight support, which was the control center, and data systems, which had responsibility for operating all the computers around the center.\\n\\n But the job was to provide the facilities for both training and execution of the Shuttle flights. That was primarily the Shuttle mission simulator and the control center. But then, in addition, to do the flight software and the mission planning for the Shuttle flights. Probably one of the best jobs I ever had. I really enjoyed that job. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly sounds like it would be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any particular incidents or challenges during that time that really stick out for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.32081421425562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a little hard to fix a virus when you’re in the middle of a launch phase or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be very bad. It’ll be interesting to see how it continues to grow and change with the times. We’ll probably be using the Shuttle for a while yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I expect that we are, and there are a lot of upgrades that really need to be done that I think would be cost-effective. But it’s hard to convince the Congress at this point that that much more money should be spent. So those poor guys over there now that are fighting the daily budget battles, it’s much worse than it was when I was there. I had to admit that. Maybe that’ll get better. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can hope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eventually even though this was one of the most fun jobs that you had had, you did decide to move on from NASA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 35.91201579361736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I expect that we are, and there are a lot of upgrades that really need to be done that I think would be cost-effective. But it’s hard to convince the Congress at this point that that much more money should be spent. So those poor guys over there now that are fighting the daily budget battles, it’s much worse than it was when I was there. I had to admit that. Maybe that’ll get better. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can hope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eventually even though this was one of the most fun jobs that you had had, you did decide to move on from NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you come to that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.45069294561613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it’s a challenge, because their question is, \"Why aren’t we doing that anymore?\" And that’s hard to explain. I need help. Somebody needs to explain to me why we aren’t doing that. You know, there are a lot of good reasons, but you stand back from all of the reasons. You look back, and some of that really doesn’t hold water. The other answer is, I’m afraid that we just aren’t bold enough. We aren’t being as aggressive enough. No, it’s not an easy thing to do, and there’s a lot of competition to do other things on the Earth. But it’s never been easy to do hard things, and it won’t ever be. So you might as well bite the bullet and go do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows what we’ll find on Mars? Maybe nothing. I don’t believe that. Just going to the Moon, we found out a lot about ourselves and how the Earth was formed, and are still learning, I guess, on that. One of these days this planet’s going to get full, and it would have been nice to have another place to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and there’s always more out there to learn about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s better than the alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Even though ours is a history project, hopefully by doing this history, it does help to inspire those people that read about it and hear it in your words."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.83410327290681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows what we’ll find on Mars? Maybe nothing. I don’t believe that. Just going to the Moon, we found out a lot about ourselves and how the Earth was formed, and are still learning, I guess, on that. One of these days this planet’s going to get full, and it would have been nice to have another place to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and there’s always more out there to learn about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s better than the alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Even though ours is a history project, hopefully by doing this history, it does help to inspire those people that read about it and hear it in your words."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s good to record the history as it happened, and hopefully it’ll make people ask questions about, why aren’t we still doing that? Why did we stop? Why don’t we start again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the ways people get inspired is through science fiction and movies and Hollywood in particular. I wanted to ask you about your involvement with Apollo 13."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 37.593448081007566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s better than the alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Even though ours is a history project, hopefully by doing this history, it does help to inspire those people that read about it and hear it in your words."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s good to record the history as it happened, and hopefully it’ll make people ask questions about, why aren’t we still doing that? Why did we stop? Why don’t we start again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the ways people get inspired is through science fiction and movies and Hollywood in particular. I wanted to ask you about your involvement with Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that your son was involved with Ron Howard. If you could tell us kind of how that came about and [some of] your experiences on it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.792257430284002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I didn’t realize, I guess, to the extent that Lovell and Haise had thought that the mission was really a failure. I guess they felt like they were treated that way by NASA. If you look at their mission objective, of course, they didn’t accomplish it. But they obviously felt a big letdown, but they both kind of felt like they had failed. Hopefully, the experience with Lovell of writing the book and then doing the movie and all, it’s more accurate, I think, that the original mission objectives were not met, but the mission was not a failure.\\n\\n Missions fail when they go wrong and you don’t know what happened and you lose the spacecraft or you lose the crew or whatever and you have no reason or no data to tell you why. It was a horrible thing and the mission objectives weren’t met, but I think it taught NASA a lot about a lot of things, how to prepare better for risk and then how to deal with risk. It was kind of an eye-opener that, hey, we shouldn’t get too complacent. I’m not saying that we were, but it was a reminder that, don’t. Things can still come up and bite you when you least expect them. So it was not a failure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was even a success all these years later when it was able to help in the NASA budget process and get people interested in it again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And hopefully that makes Lovell and Haise feel better about it, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did. I’m sure it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned at the time you were involved in the movie, you were still at Grumman, and now you’ve retired."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.99139714476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And hopefully that makes Lovell and Haise feel better about it, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did. I’m sure it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned at the time you were involved in the movie, you were still at Grumman, and now you’ve retired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go onto anything else after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4348857164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did. I’m sure it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned at the time you were involved in the movie, you were still at Grumman, and now you’ve retired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go onto anything else after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had some relatives and some friends who, unfortunately, passed away well before their time, and I vowed that, if possible, I was not going to allow that to happen, that hopefully I would get to a point where I could retire and enjoy life. So in ‘96, I guess it was, I decided to do that.\\n\\n Glynn Lunney, though, kind of spoiled that for a while. He was at the United Space Alliance at the time and he called me a number of times and said, \"Why don’t you come over and help me out.\" I really had no desire to go back to work, but I did because of Glynn purely, because he’d been a lifelong friend. I’d worked with him. I’d been his deputy probably three or four times in my career. I thought, \"If he wants me to come and help, I'll go and see what I [can] do.\" So I did that for about a year and a half at U.S.A., United Space Alliance.\\n\\n Then Glynn decided that he was going to finally retire. He told me that ahead of time. He said, \"I’ve decided I’m going to hang it up.\" I said, \"Okay, I’ll leave the same day you do, because you’re the only reason I’m here.\" So I did. I did that in ‘98. I’ve been totally retired for a couple of years, and I really enjoy it. Occasionally I get a call from somebody that says, \"Would you be interested in consulting?\" I say the only consulting I do is I wake up in the morning and I consult my wife on what I should do today. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good kind of consulting to do. Well, you certainly have been involved with a number of interesting things over your career. I think you’ve earned the chance to sit back and do whatever you want to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.98636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the good news, and there’s always bad news. It’s hard to say, well, then what after that? Because I think for a lot of us, after Apollo it was kind of a \"Is that all there is?\" [Laughter] It’s hard to follow something like that. I don’t recall ever having any conversations with anybody about that at the time, but over the years I’ve talked with a lot of the flight controllers that I worked with and a lot of the astronauts and, boy, they went through the same thing. You can imagine some of the astronauts, especially the guys that went to the Moon. You say, \"Okay, now what do I do now? What else? What can top that?\" I mean, I thought I was having a struggle, but nothing compared to those guys. That’s a tough act to follow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a lot of people did go through tough times with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that has to be the high point. That’s the thing I want to tell my grandkids the most about, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and well you should want to. Hopefully they can share some of that through your oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope they’ll always be interested. The ones that are old enough now are. Space program and basketball. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, okay. Basketball involves some trajectory work.\\n\\n Looking back, you had mentioned, we talked about it in your first oral history, how you even got involved in the first place. You had already had a job lined up and weren’t going to be doing anything with the space program. They pulled you in to fill in for an interview. Would you ever have imagined—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope they’ll always be interested. The ones that are old enough now are. Space program and basketball. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, okay. Basketball involves some trajectory work.\\n\\n Looking back, you had mentioned, we talked about it in your first oral history, how you even got involved in the first place. You had already had a job lined up and weren’t going to be doing anything with the space program. They pulled you in to fill in for an interview. Would you ever have imagined—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There’s no way I could have designed it any better. No, I never imagined. In fact, I was obviously excited about the manned space program when I was in college, but because I hadn’t chosen that as a career path, I never thought I would be a part of that. I was just excited about that it was going on and I was a U.S. citizen and the U.S. was involved, but I never thought I would be a part of that.\\n\\n It’s just a real uncanny chain of events, I guess, that I was lucky, happened to be in the right places at the right time. Couldn’t have designed it any better if I had tried, and I never did. That’s one reason probably that I lucked out. Because I was never one of those people who thought, \"Well, here I am on my career ladder. What am I going to do next?\" type of thing. I probably should have paid more attention to that, but I just tried to enjoy what I was doing at the time and doing it as well as I could. Yes, as you think back about how I ended up at NASA and then how I ended at JSC and how I ended up being associated with people like Kraft and Lunney, it’s a pure lucky chain of events. I have no complaints about it. I feel very fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We feel very fortunate you’ve shared so much of that history with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thanks for letting me bore you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all. It’s very interesting. Is there anything that you can think of that we have missed or haven’t touched on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.84, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There’s no way I could have designed it any better. No, I never imagined. In fact, I was obviously excited about the manned space program when I was in college, but because I hadn’t chosen that as a career path, I never thought I would be a part of that. I was just excited about that it was going on and I was a U.S. citizen and the U.S. was involved, but I never thought I would be a part of that.\\n\\n It’s just a real uncanny chain of events, I guess, that I was lucky, happened to be in the right places at the right time. Couldn’t have designed it any better if I had tried, and I never did. That’s one reason probably that I lucked out. Because I was never one of those people who thought, \"Well, here I am on my career ladder. What am I going to do next?\" type of thing. I probably should have paid more attention to that, but I just tried to enjoy what I was doing at the time and doing it as well as I could. Yes, as you think back about how I ended up at NASA and then how I ended at JSC and how I ended up being associated with people like Kraft and Lunney, it’s a pure lucky chain of events. I have no complaints about it. I feel very fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We feel very fortunate you’ve shared so much of that history with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thanks for letting me bore you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all. It’s very interesting. Is there anything that you can think of that we have missed or haven’t touched on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I’m impressed with the research that you and your office have done just in coming up with the questions. You remembered some stuff that I had forgotten about, and I know that has to be a challenge. I admire you for doing what you’re doing and encourage you to keep doing it. Hopefully one of these days it’ll be something the historians can—a real resource that they can use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly hope so, and we try, as you said, to do the best we can and certainly enjoy our jobs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00037:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thanks for letting me bore you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all. It’s very interesting. Is there anything that you can think of that we have missed or haven’t touched on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I’m impressed with the research that you and your office have done just in coming up with the questions. You remembered some stuff that I had forgotten about, and I know that has to be a challenge. I admire you for doing what you’re doing and encourage you to keep doing it. Hopefully one of these days it’ll be something the historians can—a real resource that they can use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly hope so, and we try, as you said, to do the best we can and certainly enjoy our jobs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it shows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. I was going to ask Summer and Sandra real quick if they had any questions.\n\nI have a couple. You talked about the RMS and all the resistance that you had. Was there some point at which you finally convinced all those who had opposed it, or did they have see it in action before they were convinced of its—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00525:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 89.538921834263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably were, but I don’t recall what they were. I always did the orbit shift. I didn’t do ascent or entry. I got to learn a lot about the science that was going on on some of the science flights or smaller payloads. I had to learn about that and interact with the people that were working in the payload world.\\n\\n Quite frankly, I don’t remember any things that happened, but I just remember that there were always things going on. It kept you busy. It kept your mind working. Pull out the engineering drawings, or who knows how this is all linked up that could have possibly caused the problem. There were just a lot of smart people figuring a lot of things. Someone would get the “aha” moment, “Oh, I know what this is. It’s not there. It’s back here.” It was just fun, just fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like a fun assignment. I did want to ask you, “Hoot” [Robert L. Gibson] was chief of the Astronaut Office for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the nineties. I was curious, how do you think that impacted your career? Did you ever get any sort of kidding from people in the office that you were getting the good jobs because he was your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, you know, I couldn’t work for him. That was one of the things that, you know, “Oh, dear, Hoot’s now chief of the office and Rhea can’t work for him. What shall we do?” Well, no big deal. It was obviously an administrative problem, not a real problem. What I did was I worked for Dave [David C.] Leestma, who was then head of FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Directorate], I think. I just bumped up one, and so that’s how we solved that problem. It wasn’t any problem at all.\\n\\n I can’t remember whether Hoot assigned me formally to my third flight or not. Do you remember when he was chief of the office?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I have December of ’92 to September of ’94."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00525:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 99.48769092695888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the nineties. I was curious, how do you think that impacted your career? Did you ever get any sort of kidding from people in the office that you were getting the good jobs because he was your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, you know, I couldn’t work for him. That was one of the things that, you know, “Oh, dear, Hoot’s now chief of the office and Rhea can’t work for him. What shall we do?” Well, no big deal. It was obviously an administrative problem, not a real problem. What I did was I worked for Dave [David C.] Leestma, who was then head of FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Directorate], I think. I just bumped up one, and so that’s how we solved that problem. It wasn’t any problem at all.\\n\\n I can’t remember whether Hoot assigned me formally to my third flight or not. Do you remember when he was chief of the office?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I have December of ’92 to September of ’94."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn’t assign me to a flight, but there was always sort of this question about things. But I don’t think anybody thought—I mean, Hoot was so clear-cut about who was assigned to flights and why. You went in order. People that needed to be on flights, he put on those flights. He put a tremendous amount of thought into it, and I think everybody thought that he was real fair about it. So I think if he had put me on a flight, they would have said, “Oh, yes, well, that makes sense. It’s time, and she’s the right person,” and so on. So it really wasn’t a problem. We did get a lot of kidding about it, and he would kid me—he was the boss. I told him, “I don’t work for you.” So life went on as normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that third flight. I found it interesting that this was a continuation flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00525:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 46, "return_to_go": 110.54187880773209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, you know, I couldn’t work for him. That was one of the things that, you know, “Oh, dear, Hoot’s now chief of the office and Rhea can’t work for him. What shall we do?” Well, no big deal. It was obviously an administrative problem, not a real problem. What I did was I worked for Dave [David C.] Leestma, who was then head of FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Directorate], I think. I just bumped up one, and so that’s how we solved that problem. It wasn’t any problem at all.\\n\\n I can’t remember whether Hoot assigned me formally to my third flight or not. Do you remember when he was chief of the office?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I have December of ’92 to September of ’94."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn’t assign me to a flight, but there was always sort of this question about things. But I don’t think anybody thought—I mean, Hoot was so clear-cut about who was assigned to flights and why. You went in order. People that needed to be on flights, he put on those flights. He put a tremendous amount of thought into it, and I think everybody thought that he was real fair about it. So I think if he had put me on a flight, they would have said, “Oh, yes, well, that makes sense. It’s time, and she’s the right person,” and so on. So it really wasn’t a problem. We did get a lot of kidding about it, and he would kid me—he was the boss. I told him, “I don’t work for you.” So life went on as normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that third flight. I found it interesting that this was a continuation flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yet you were the only member who continued to fly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00525:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are more women in medical school classes than there are men. I don’t think they are as well represented in medical leadership. I guess people have always said, “Well, women don’t want to do that.” I don’t think that’s quite right. So I think it’s just taking some time for women to make inroads into leadership positions in healthcare.\\n\\n It’s always interesting to me to go now to many hospitals all over the country, some of them academic centers and some of them community hospitals, and to be surprised that there are many more women physicians as leaders. We invite the leaders in for a “boot camp” for two days, and we go in the room and there are more women there. It’s kind of like, “Neat. This is good.” They are department chairs or chief medical officers or the CEOs [Chief Executive Officers]. They’re women, and that’s neat. So the world is changing in healthcare too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure I could keep asking you questions. I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any for you.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything written down?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I was just going through. It was very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I’m prattling on and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, no, that’s the whole idea. It’s not for us to talk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00525:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything written down?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I was just going through. It was very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I’m prattling on and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, no, that’s the whole idea. It’s not for us to talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re good listeners. You’re both very good listeners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had one more question, but I think you’ve really talked about it. You had talked in the first interview about how you were pulled aside during the interview with NASA. You were told that the newspaper would be interested in covering one of the women, because this was the first time we were having women. You mentioned the myth that women’s hormonal cycles make them much more emotional than men, and that you wanted to study in space, you know, would you be more emotional than men, would it be dangerous in space for women, and I thought maybe you’d want to address that. But I think you did a nice job here of exploring how things have changed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 32.838341306697785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. There were many different things.\\n\\n Power issues were the main concern, “What happens if we lose power?” Obviously, we had backup systems and generators and UPS’s [uninterruptible power supplies]. But [that] was our [main] concern, if we lost power. Water. We said, “Okay, let’s make sure that we protect just in the event of any kind of a water leak,” because we’d had them in the past.\\n\\n It was very minor. I don’t think there was much concern that we weren’t prepared for any kind of event. The only thing that I—I’m sure they had something in place, but earthquake was the one thing that I wasn’t concerned about. We knew hurricanes were a possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially that time of year, for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said things went well, there really weren’t any major challenges with your system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were no major challenges. Obviously, the way telemetry would present itself might be a little bit different than what we had originally expected, but other than that—in fact that’s actually something that’s expected. So, there was nothing really truly unexpected, and it performed the way it was supposed to. It was a very satisfying feeling when we started getting images back and they looked correct. Everything looked great. I still have those images on my screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that last day of the test and rolling out OTIS? Were you there for those days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.257441000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d have to say ASPA. ASPA would be my most significant contribution. It was something tangible. It was something that I built from the ground up, the software at least. It was a very solid piece of software. We had some issues, but I’m very proud of it. Yes, I’d have to say that the software that controlled ASPA was my most significant contribution to OTIS.\\n\\n Aside from, obviously, the time that I put in with all the people and building relationships and establishing that trust between everybody. Obviously, that’s a contribution. But as far as a tangible contribution, I’d have to say ASPA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I sent you these questions earlier. I wanted to know is there anything else that you may have jotted down that you think we haven’t covered today that you wanted to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. No, I think we’ve covered pretty much everything.\\n\\n It was one of the most iconic moments and programs I’ve worked on to date. Such a spectacular team, amazing piece of engineering hardware. To be part of that is a life experience. It’s one of the most amazing things that we’ve done in our generation. To be part of that, to think about what we’re really going to be using Webb for—looking for first light, working with people that are Nobel Prize winners. John [C.] Mather—oh my gosh, what an amazing guy. To have him know me on a first-name basis is an incredible feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The friends that I’ve made. It’s a life experience, it’s one of the most amazing things I’ve done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I have to say it was pretty cool seeing it when I had the opportunity to take my family to see it. Knowing where it was going and what it would be doing, yes, it’s very exciting. Kind of cool, you don’t see much hardware here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7304900000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. No, I think we’ve covered pretty much everything.\\n\\n It was one of the most iconic moments and programs I’ve worked on to date. Such a spectacular team, amazing piece of engineering hardware. To be part of that is a life experience. It’s one of the most amazing things that we’ve done in our generation. To be part of that, to think about what we’re really going to be using Webb for—looking for first light, working with people that are Nobel Prize winners. John [C.] Mather—oh my gosh, what an amazing guy. To have him know me on a first-name basis is an incredible feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The friends that I’ve made. It’s a life experience, it’s one of the most amazing things I’ve done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I have to say it was pretty cool seeing it when I had the opportunity to take my family to see it. Knowing where it was going and what it would be doing, yes, it’s very exciting. Kind of cool, you don’t see much hardware here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. You had an opportunity to bring your kids through?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think it took us about three hours. He’s five, so he was like, “Oh.” I’m like, “No, trust me. It’s going to be so cool, it’s going to be so cool, it’s going to be so worth it.” I think when he’s probably 10 or 11 he’ll get it. But as a five-year-old it was a challenge to keep him excited about what we were going to see."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. You had an opportunity to bring your kids through?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think it took us about three hours. He’s five, so he was like, “Oh.” I’m like, “No, trust me. It’s going to be so cool, it’s going to be so cool, it’s going to be so worth it.” I think when he’s probably 10 or 11 he’ll get it. But as a five-year-old it was a challenge to keep him excited about what we were going to see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. “Oh look, shiny mirrors. Okay, what’s next?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Space Center Houston is really good for the younger kids, to get them excited about it. Space camp, as they start getting towards the 10, 11, 12 years old. Get them into space camp, get them interested in it. It’s just such an opportunity for them. I get so excited about it, I’m very passionate about doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like you are. You may decide to change your career and go into more of that field at some point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. “Oh look, shiny mirrors. Okay, what’s next?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Space Center Houston is really good for the younger kids, to get them excited about it. Space camp, as they start getting towards the 10, 11, 12 years old. Get them into space camp, get them interested in it. It’s just such an opportunity for them. I get so excited about it, I’m very passionate about doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like you are. You may decide to change your career and go into more of that field at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ve got some big plans for Ball Aerospace moving forward. My next program is working on the next big telescope which is coming through, which is WFIRST (Wide Field Infrared [Survey] Telescope). That’s going to be at Goddard. Right now, I believe it’s up in Rochester, New York. I’m not sure when it’s going to be down at Goddard, believe it’s going to be sometime next year it’s going to get underway. That’s my next program.\\n\\n I’m going to be working software, but I’m also going to be working with the teams. I really enjoy working with people. I enjoy building teams. It’s going to be more tours. I really enjoy working at Goddard. I love being in the middle of things; I love the excitement. I work very well under pressure. It’s just exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time today. I’m glad we were able to get some time to talk. Really appreciate it, especially since you’re here and there and everywhere else."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Space Center Houston is really good for the younger kids, to get them excited about it. Space camp, as they start getting towards the 10, 11, 12 years old. Get them into space camp, get them interested in it. It’s just such an opportunity for them. I get so excited about it, I’m very passionate about doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like you are. You may decide to change your career and go into more of that field at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ve got some big plans for Ball Aerospace moving forward. My next program is working on the next big telescope which is coming through, which is WFIRST (Wide Field Infrared [Survey] Telescope). That’s going to be at Goddard. Right now, I believe it’s up in Rochester, New York. I’m not sure when it’s going to be down at Goddard, believe it’s going to be sometime next year it’s going to get underway. That’s my next program.\\n\\n I’m going to be working software, but I’m also going to be working with the teams. I really enjoy working with people. I enjoy building teams. It’s going to be more tours. I really enjoy working at Goddard. I love being in the middle of things; I love the excitement. I work very well under pressure. It’s just exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time today. I’m glad we were able to get some time to talk. Really appreciate it, especially since you’re here and there and everywhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like I said, I’ll send you a copy of the transcript once it’s ready, probably take about eight weeks. But if we’re running later I’ll let you know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ve got some big plans for Ball Aerospace moving forward. My next program is working on the next big telescope which is coming through, which is WFIRST (Wide Field Infrared [Survey] Telescope). That’s going to be at Goddard. Right now, I believe it’s up in Rochester, New York. I’m not sure when it’s going to be down at Goddard, believe it’s going to be sometime next year it’s going to get underway. That’s my next program.\\n\\n I’m going to be working software, but I’m also going to be working with the teams. I really enjoy working with people. I enjoy building teams. It’s going to be more tours. I really enjoy working at Goddard. I love being in the middle of things; I love the excitement. I work very well under pressure. It’s just exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time today. I’m glad we were able to get some time to talk. Really appreciate it, especially since you’re here and there and everywhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like I said, I’ll send you a copy of the transcript once it’s ready, probably take about eight weeks. But if we’re running later I’ll let you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Good luck with it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like I said, I’ll send you a copy of the transcript once it’s ready, probably take about eight weeks. But if we’re running later I’ll let you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Good luck with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, Jen. Thank you, it was very nice talking with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, absolutely. Have a good day, and I’ll be in touch soon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00536:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Good luck with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, Jen. Thank you, it was very nice talking with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, absolutely. Have a good day, and I’ll be in touch soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, sounds good, Jen. You take care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, you too. Thank you, bye-bye."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.494942675517713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s much lower than in a traditional program. In a traditional program, you would have hundreds of civil servants supporting the program. You would have more of a support contractor staff, and you would have dedicated engineering staff providing support to the program. The COTS program chose to only buy engineering support as needed, and they were able to get part-time of maybe 100 to 150 people, maybe an hour here and there, maybe a week when we had a major review, if we needed it. Engineering support from that perspective was much lower than traditional. And we were there to help the partners, not tell them how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To clarify, was that engineering support the COTS Advisory Team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s the COTS Advisory Team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that by the time you became involved in the COTS program, they had already selected the first two commercial partners. Did you have any role in the termination of RpK, when their Space Act Agreement was terminated [in October 2007]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the program office at the time that RpK was terminated, and I was on the Source Evaluation Board [Participant Evaluation Panel] for the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your experience? As much as you can share, because we understand that a lot is proprietary."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.327714083908567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s the COTS Advisory Team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that by the time you became involved in the COTS program, they had already selected the first two commercial partners. Did you have any role in the termination of RpK, when their Space Act Agreement was terminated [in October 2007]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the program office at the time that RpK was terminated, and I was on the Source Evaluation Board [Participant Evaluation Panel] for the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your experience? As much as you can share, because we understand that a lot is proprietary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "RpK had difficulty raising money in the private sector, and had essentially stopped work. The program had a tough decision to make, as to whether or not to continue to partner with them and decided that it was not in the best interest of the government to continue that partnership."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any input in those discussions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.364126759898408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the program office at the time that RpK was terminated, and I was on the Source Evaluation Board [Participant Evaluation Panel] for the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your experience? As much as you can share, because we understand that a lot is proprietary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "RpK had difficulty raising money in the private sector, and had essentially stopped work. The program had a tough decision to make, as to whether or not to continue to partner with them and decided that it was not in the best interest of the government to continue that partnership."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any input in those discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a budget perspective, as far as what we had spent to date, and the remaining milestones. Then in the recompetition, I was on the evaluation board for the selection of the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of lessons learned from RpK’s termination did you apply to your role in the selection of the next partner?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.293474177664898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "RpK had difficulty raising money in the private sector, and had essentially stopped work. The program had a tough decision to make, as to whether or not to continue to partner with them and decided that it was not in the best interest of the government to continue that partnership."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any input in those discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a budget perspective, as far as what we had spent to date, and the remaining milestones. Then in the recompetition, I was on the evaluation board for the selection of the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of lessons learned from RpK’s termination did you apply to your role in the selection of the next partner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s really important that these agreements had financial milestones as well as technical milestones. I think the board as a whole, and the business team on the selection panel, looked very closely at the business model of the potential partners and made sure that business model made sense. We also had an outside consultant who looked at those as well [Alan Marty], and the person who led the business team was Dennis [A.] Stone. Dennis had been through the first partnership selection and was part of the program from the beginning. He had a good handle on what the business model should look like, and whether or not they would be able to close the business model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the [Resource] Analyst, did you also play a part in how some of the milestones were negotiated in the new Space Act Agreement?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.326082419627664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a budget perspective, as far as what we had spent to date, and the remaining milestones. Then in the recompetition, I was on the evaluation board for the selection of the new partner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of lessons learned from RpK’s termination did you apply to your role in the selection of the next partner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s really important that these agreements had financial milestones as well as technical milestones. I think the board as a whole, and the business team on the selection panel, looked very closely at the business model of the potential partners and made sure that business model made sense. We also had an outside consultant who looked at those as well [Alan Marty], and the person who led the business team was Dennis [A.] Stone. Dennis had been through the first partnership selection and was part of the program from the beginning. He had a good handle on what the business model should look like, and whether or not they would be able to close the business model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the [Resource] Analyst, did you also play a part in how some of the milestones were negotiated in the new Space Act Agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. At one point in time, Congress gave us additional funding. I was involved in the augmentation discussions, regarding the augmentation milestones. Not in the negotiations between the partner and the program office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share a little bit more about the augmentation and the negotiation of those milestones?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.362313799586293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s really important that these agreements had financial milestones as well as technical milestones. I think the board as a whole, and the business team on the selection panel, looked very closely at the business model of the potential partners and made sure that business model made sense. We also had an outside consultant who looked at those as well [Alan Marty], and the person who led the business team was Dennis [A.] Stone. Dennis had been through the first partnership selection and was part of the program from the beginning. He had a good handle on what the business model should look like, and whether or not they would be able to close the business model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the [Resource] Analyst, did you also play a part in how some of the milestones were negotiated in the new Space Act Agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. At one point in time, Congress gave us additional funding. I was involved in the augmentation discussions, regarding the augmentation milestones. Not in the negotiations between the partner and the program office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share a little bit more about the augmentation and the negotiation of those milestones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The partners proposed augmentation milestones that would reduce risk to the program and to their performance in their achievement of their vehicle demo [demonstration]. There was a lot of back and forth between the partners and the project managers within the program office, about what those milestones should be and what the closure criteria for success should be. They should be milestones that reduce risk, which incorporated additional tests.\\n\\n In the case of Orbital, it incorporated an additional test flight. With regards to SpaceX, there was additional testing. They were further along because they had been operating for a year or more longer than Orbital, but there were still some additional test activities that mitigated potential risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has your work in procurement evolved as a result of your work with the COTS program, and that different way of doing business between private and public enterprise?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.624793110651435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. At one point in time, Congress gave us additional funding. I was involved in the augmentation discussions, regarding the augmentation milestones. Not in the negotiations between the partner and the program office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share a little bit more about the augmentation and the negotiation of those milestones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The partners proposed augmentation milestones that would reduce risk to the program and to their performance in their achievement of their vehicle demo [demonstration]. There was a lot of back and forth between the partners and the project managers within the program office, about what those milestones should be and what the closure criteria for success should be. They should be milestones that reduce risk, which incorporated additional tests.\\n\\n In the case of Orbital, it incorporated an additional test flight. With regards to SpaceX, there was additional testing. They were further along because they had been operating for a year or more longer than Orbital, but there were still some additional test activities that mitigated potential risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has your work in procurement evolved as a result of your work with the COTS program, and that different way of doing business between private and public enterprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m on the budget side, not the procurement side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry, excuse me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.916436789612707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The partners proposed augmentation milestones that would reduce risk to the program and to their performance in their achievement of their vehicle demo [demonstration]. There was a lot of back and forth between the partners and the project managers within the program office, about what those milestones should be and what the closure criteria for success should be. They should be milestones that reduce risk, which incorporated additional tests.\\n\\n In the case of Orbital, it incorporated an additional test flight. With regards to SpaceX, there was additional testing. They were further along because they had been operating for a year or more longer than Orbital, but there were still some additional test activities that mitigated potential risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has your work in procurement evolved as a result of your work with the COTS program, and that different way of doing business between private and public enterprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m on the budget side, not the procurement side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry, excuse me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay. I do occasionally get involved with procurement activities.\\n\\n I think it’s helped me to see that there are other approaches that can be very successful, and I am a big advocate for the COTS program and the COTS model. I think that Alan [J.] Lindenmoyer [Commercial Crew and Cargo Program Manager] has been extremely successful in helping the partners to accomplish the goals that they set. Coming to the Space Station Program, it’s nice to the see the fruition of that work, and to see SpaceX delivering cargo.\\n\\n It is a very different model. It’s a very different mindset as to how we accomplish things. Typically on a contract, we [NASA] are writing the requirements and telling the contractor how to do what we want them to do. In the COTS program, its model is to tell them what we need, and let them go figure out how to deliver it. From a financial perspective, it has been much cheaper to partner with SpaceX and Orbital to deliver cargo than it would have been under a traditional NASA program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the lean staff in the COTS office. What are some of the other areas where you saw major savings in the budget?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00686:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 29.426058207000008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a legal representative and a procurement representative who were integral to the program. There was a dedicated person or persons who were involved. We were all involved in the weekly staff meetings with Alan. It was a very lean team, and everybody was at the table in the weekly meetings with the program manager. You can do that when you have a small team. You can’t do that when you have a team of 300, 400, or more.\\n\\n Everybody was knowledgeable about what was important to the program, what things were going on in the program, what issues we might be dealing with. I think that’s really important, to have that very flat hierarchical structure, or lack of hierarchy within a program office that size, if you’re going to do something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I’d like to ask Rebecca Wright if she has any questions she’d like to follow up on.\n\nI have a question about the augmentation. You said Congress gave that money. It’s very rare that you hear of programs getting more money. Can you share the background of how that money actually made it into the program office here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure what the driver was behind the Congressional appropriation, whether there was lobbying on behalf of the partners. It was not something that the program originally asked for, but when we were offered it, we felt like the best use of those funds was to reduce the risk. There was actually language written into the appropriation bill specifically directing that additional funding to the partners. I think it has proven to be very successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a surprise as a budget person to get more money to deal with. Usually people are ready to take it away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite a surprise to have more funding offered to you, without having to go and fight for it and defend it. That’s not something that happens frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made a comment about the payments for the milestones, getting the money to them so quickly. That the process changed from JSC to the NSSC, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00720:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 53.66018511000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All. Certain subsystems might have taken a half a page, but other subsystems probably took 200 pages. I presented the overview, but we had our subsystem managers go into the details of the significant changes. Myself and my counterpart from USA and NASA worked as a project team, and we went through this orbiter presentation and managed it from that way. We had picked certain areas where we would overview these sections of the presentation and then introduce our subsystem experts and go over the details with the program office. It was a long meeting, it was three days. Those days weren’t eight-hour days either. They were twelve, thirteen hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any changes that you had to go back and make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had certain actions coming out of that that we had to readdress. We readdressed them at the flight readiness review and closed those actions, but they weren’t constraints to moving forward for the flight readiness review."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there. I’ve been at probably 30 or 40 launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on console or you were just there to witness the launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00720:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 59.622427900000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had certain actions coming out of that that we had to readdress. We readdressed them at the flight readiness review and closed those actions, but they weren’t constraints to moving forward for the flight readiness review."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there. I’ve been at probably 30 or 40 launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on console or you were just there to witness the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I was just there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the Mission Evaluation Room for the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00720:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 65.136031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there. I’ve been at probably 30 or 40 launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on console or you were just there to witness the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I was just there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the Mission Evaluation Room for the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I came back since I wasn’t vehicle manager. I’ve done my time in that MER."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you started working on transition and retirement. When did transition officially begin?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 34.71291989727996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of all the responsibilities that you had during the Gemini time period, did you find that one task was more difficult to accomplish than the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think as far as tasks are concerned, my greatest concern and challenge was each liftoff, is how much damage you're going to have and how soon can we get that turned around where we can get the next vehicle along. As I said, no two vehicles react the same; the damage pattern is different each time. So my biggest challenge was every vehicle as far as blast damage was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Gemini progressed, and of course, most people knew, or everybody knew, that we would be moving toward the Apollo era and moving toward going to the Moon to fulfill John Kennedy's challenge. So you knew that your job would be changing. Did you know during Gemini where you would be going after the program had stopped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. At that time, I was getting ready to retire and I kind of thought to myself, well, it's time that I relax and spent more time with [my family]—as I said, I had several offers to go with different contractors, people that I knew, developed a friendship with. So I was just going to retire and go play golf, and it didn't work out that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 34.922907936716896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I really didn't—Freeport. Because of my experience with government, they sent me to Rocky Flats, Colorado, because Dow had the big contract up there on cleaning up after the big fire they had. Since I had worked around the government and was familiar with the government regulations and contracting, I went up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference in location from Florida to Colorado."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell me. Working out there when it was zero temperature, you know. But I guess you get used to those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was quite a change, too, from the family that you had been so closely involved with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in Gemini days, to move to these other types of work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.358786596352104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell me. Working out there when it was zero temperature, you know. But I guess you get used to those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was quite a change, too, from the family that you had been so closely involved with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in Gemini days, to move to these other types of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I found in Dow a similarity, but not like we had on the Gemini. Dow Chemical was a close-knitted company and it's an old family company, and the Dow family believed in the philosophy of everybody being close together, working together as a team. When I went to Dow, they had just changed from that philosophy. The Dow family decided that they needed to change their philosophy, the family could no longer control Dow and grow Dow Chemical, because every cousin, aunt, and uncle wanted their share of the stock and dividends. Mr. Dow decided it was time to break away from the family, and they did so.\\n\\n Dow began to really grow and became, as you well know, it's the second—I guess it's still second in chemical processing and manufacturing. So I think they had they stayed the way they were, they would have probably withered up and disappeared.\\n\\n He brought a young man in from Allied Chemical, Ben Branch, who was a fair-haired boy with Allied Chemical, and, of course, they were number one. Mr. Branch brought the team together where they really grew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as families do, families gather. And you recently returned from a reunion of the Gemini family."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.17642955150234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in Gemini days, to move to these other types of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I found in Dow a similarity, but not like we had on the Gemini. Dow Chemical was a close-knitted company and it's an old family company, and the Dow family believed in the philosophy of everybody being close together, working together as a team. When I went to Dow, they had just changed from that philosophy. The Dow family decided that they needed to change their philosophy, the family could no longer control Dow and grow Dow Chemical, because every cousin, aunt, and uncle wanted their share of the stock and dividends. Mr. Dow decided it was time to break away from the family, and they did so.\\n\\n Dow began to really grow and became, as you well know, it's the second—I guess it's still second in chemical processing and manufacturing. So I think they had they stayed the way they were, they would have probably withered up and disappeared.\\n\\n He brought a young man in from Allied Chemical, Ben Branch, who was a fair-haired boy with Allied Chemical, and, of course, they were number one. Mr. Branch brought the team together where they really grew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as families do, families gather. And you recently returned from a reunion of the Gemini family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you share with us what all that entailed and so maybe some of the people that you got a chance to visit with while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.134878603302344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I tried not let it get boring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you call home? Where are you from originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Ohio, but I would never go back to Ohio, because it's cold and I don't like cold weather. So I came to Texas in [1940], and I liked it. This is home. I don't like cold weather, and, of course, the service, they sent you where you didn't like—if you didn't like cold weather, you got to go to cold weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do your training in Texas, your Army Air Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my training was rather unique the way I was—yes, the basic training I was sent to Chanute Field, Illinois, and I went to what they called the aircraft and engine training school there. I had twenty-six weeks.\\n\\n After that I was sent to Seattle, [Washington] and went through an engineering course on B-17s. Then from there I went to Nevada and through what they call a gunnery course, and came back out of that, and then I was sent to Geiger [phonetic] Field, Washington, and was assigned a combat crew, it was for combat training. I stayed in that, was placed in a training command for training crews. I volunteered for overseas several times, but they wouldn't let us go because supposedly we were supposed to be essentials to training crews.\\n\\n Then I went to the Pacific, and right after the war served five years in occupation duty in Japan with the Air Force. Then I came back in '50, and a year later I was back in Japan because of the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was nice that you were able to move toward seeing aircraft become an achievement, as such, as going to the Moon and not just used for war purposes. I'm sure you enjoyed the transition from that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.8804919112515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot of history about history and that's why I think history—there's a lot in literature and in books about Germany, about their development of missiles and that. I was always interested in that, and everything I could find to read I would read about it. Goddard always interested me, Dr. [Robert H.] Goddard. I've read probably most of his books on rocketry. It's always amazing, here was a man that had certain personals and philosophies and then he decided he would prove these things. As you all know, history is that he went out to New Mexico, he and Dr. [Daniel] Guggenheim, and that's where they first started firing rockets. I was always interested in that to see how that this was done. I ended up being in the big business with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, even though you worked with the Atlas so closely yourself, Saturn launch, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such a tremendous rocket to go, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw that. In the Atlas Program, there were three or four of us that would always get together and we'd talk. Since I'd worked around some solids, why, I often wonder why we can't strap a solid on the side of a vehicle and give it an additional boost. We were always worrying about the necessary thrust, first stage and to get through the initial thrust of the outer space. I often wondered why we couldn't strap something on it and here later on the thing is developed. As you well know, the Delta. I often wondered, why couldn't we take the Minuteman and put that on the side of the vehicle. Of course, that's about what you've got today with your vehicles. The capability of those two is about equal to a Minuteman. So I visioned these things and now they're there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that they would come true. It's quite remarkable what they're able to do with the technology, how it goes through its evolution."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 29.867213234723888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such a tremendous rocket to go, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw that. In the Atlas Program, there were three or four of us that would always get together and we'd talk. Since I'd worked around some solids, why, I often wonder why we can't strap a solid on the side of a vehicle and give it an additional boost. We were always worrying about the necessary thrust, first stage and to get through the initial thrust of the outer space. I often wondered why we couldn't strap something on it and here later on the thing is developed. As you well know, the Delta. I often wondered, why couldn't we take the Minuteman and put that on the side of the vehicle. Of course, that's about what you've got today with your vehicles. The capability of those two is about equal to a Minuteman. So I visioned these things and now they're there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that they would come true. It's quite remarkable what they're able to do with the technology, how it goes through its evolution."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's just like you're thinking about using the thrust vehicle, using fuel, who would have thought you could take liquid oxygen, or take oxygen and liquify it, and use it as a fuel to thrust something into space and then come along and use nothing but kerosene as another fuel and mix the two and develop an engine that would put you into space? Years ago nobody would have thought of that. Years ago nobody thought about liquid nitrogen or liquid hydrogen or liquid oxygen, you see.\\n\\n But even in the early days that I started in the weapons systems, there was a lot of fuels, I mean, that's been developed since that, because we didn't have the technology basically. I mean, people wrote certain theories about it and then we could do it. But to develop it and to make it work and harness it was a real, real challenge to us, and the American people rose up and challenged that, taken that challenge, and succeeded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll bet you saw quite sights at Wallops Island when you were originally there, all the trial and errors that happened."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.488970027014002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. But somebody, I guess, had to do it. I mean, the Army, of course, we used the Nike and Honest John [rockets], and, of course the Army, they had all kinds of safety devices. Here you are out there on a strip of land and you don't have all these buildings to go to, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Barton, if it's okay, I'm going to ask Sandra if she's got any questions to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. Either one of you have questions—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have several that I want to go back and ask you about. I wondered if whenever you were talking about the Atlas, you had mentioned the challenges that the Atlas posed for you. What would you consider the greatest challenges were during the testing of the Atlas Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our greatest challenge was to make sure that we were doing it right, so that when we finished with the development of it we had a successful ICBM. Because what we were doing depended upon the success of that ICBM, and that ICBM, remember, was our first front-line defense for deterrent of any ally or foreign nation trying to penetrate us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of other things I was wondering about. You said you were the Air Force rep in the beginning for the Gemini Program. Were you actually stationed at McDonnell…, or were you actually a contractor or were the Air Force rep at the Cape?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00019:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.98774447446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. Either one of you have questions—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have several that I want to go back and ask you about. I wondered if whenever you were talking about the Atlas, you had mentioned the challenges that the Atlas posed for you. What would you consider the greatest challenges were during the testing of the Atlas Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our greatest challenge was to make sure that we were doing it right, so that when we finished with the development of it we had a successful ICBM. Because what we were doing depended upon the success of that ICBM, and that ICBM, remember, was our first front-line defense for deterrent of any ally or foreign nation trying to penetrate us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of other things I was wondering about. You said you were the Air Force rep in the beginning for the Gemini Program. Were you actually stationed at McDonnell…, or were you actually a contractor or were the Air Force rep at the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the Air Force rep at the Cape. See, what generally the Air Force always—when it had a project like that, it would assign somebody to represent the Air Force to see that the contractor complying with the contract and that all your equipment is going to be all according to the drawings and that. So that was my job basically. I worked night shift, second shift, and most of the work went on at night, because during the daytime they were working schedules and plans and that, and then at night they would do the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this part of your being part of the Blue Suit Team? You mentioned that very briefly at the beginning of our conversation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 57, "return_to_go": 98.23002116368554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had quite a career with NASA, and most recent years have been spent with the Shuttle-Mir. I know that you were the first American woman to train in Star City, as well as you were part of the first crew to dock with the Mir. I would like for you to start out by telling us now what are you doing? Because those years have quickly gone by and I know that you're busy every day. So if you could just start with telling us what your current roles are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just came off of the eighth docking flight to Mir in January of this year [1998], and after a couple of months of post flight debriefing and report-writing and so forth, I've been assigned to a temporary job. Right now I'm filling the shoes of Steve Hawley for about six months as Deputy Director of Flight Crew Operations while he trains for a flight later this year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are all of the past experiences benefiting you in this new job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, I've rotated through a lot of different technical jobs in my 20-year career here, and this sort of pulls them all together. My primary job is supporting the Director, Dave Leestma, who was a classmate of mine in 1980, as well as filling all of the other roles that our directorate has within the rest of the [Johnson Space] Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you've worked with so many people for so long, and you work with them now day to day. But you spent many months in Russia training in Star City. Would you tell us some of those experiences? And first of all, tell us how you were selected to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.102319487881203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Strictly the language. I told somebody, we went to do winter survival out in the woods there by Star City, and they said, \"Is this hard? How was it?\" I said, \"This is the most comfortable thing I've done,\" because I grew up in the Northwest. My dad was a World War II Marine, and he used to teach us survival. You know, the snow's on the ground, you're out with your horse. You're checking the fence and it gets foggy and you lose your way. How do you survive? I learned survival from the time I was a kid. So being out there in the woods in the snow and taking care of the fire actually was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were home. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to do that for fun. On the weekends we'd pack the horses up and go into the Cascade Mountains and we'd call that fun. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. You were in pre-training. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I actually enjoyed winter survival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great. You had a chance to be on the first group and, of course, you got to fly with your crew. So tell us how exciting that was for you to be able to be there at the Mir."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.447021653201336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to do that for fun. On the weekends we'd pack the horses up and go into the Cascade Mountains and we'd call that fun. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. You were in pre-training. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I actually enjoyed winter survival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great. You had a chance to be on the first group and, of course, you got to fly with your crew. So tell us how exciting that was for you to be able to be there at the Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very exciting to be part of that first flight. As you probably know, Anatoly Solovyev and Nikolai Budarin also went up on the Shuttle, so they were my crew. And sat on the mid-deck. I sat with them on ascent. I also acted as an interpreter, too, because they were only with us for about three months in training. We transferred them after docking. It was very exciting to see the Mir, to actually get on there. Although there was a lot of extra hardware there, it was still somewhat familiar. I recognized all the panels and so forth.\\n\\n The hardest part was leaving them and not staying with them, and I realized how tightly we had started to bond as a crew when we got ready to close that hatch and I was going to be on one side and they were going to be on the other. That was probably the hardest time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. And then as you slowly leave and see them in the rear-view mirror, I'm sure that part of you wanted to be there, and I'm sure part of you was."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.830024059112596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I actually enjoyed winter survival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great. You had a chance to be on the first group and, of course, you got to fly with your crew. So tell us how exciting that was for you to be able to be there at the Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very exciting to be part of that first flight. As you probably know, Anatoly Solovyev and Nikolai Budarin also went up on the Shuttle, so they were my crew. And sat on the mid-deck. I sat with them on ascent. I also acted as an interpreter, too, because they were only with us for about three months in training. We transferred them after docking. It was very exciting to see the Mir, to actually get on there. Although there was a lot of extra hardware there, it was still somewhat familiar. I recognized all the panels and so forth.\\n\\n The hardest part was leaving them and not staying with them, and I realized how tightly we had started to bond as a crew when we got ready to close that hatch and I was going to be on one side and they were going to be on the other. That was probably the hardest time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. And then as you slowly leave and see them in the rear-view mirror, I'm sure that part of you wanted to be there, and I'm sure part of you was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's like any job. I had that sense, as we were closing the hatch. Then immediately my brain's back in the time line, so then I think about it after the flight. But there was just that period there. I think even Hoot [Gibson] noticed it. I mean, Hoot was feeling it. It's just kind of, \"Well, it would have been nice to stay.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us some of the things that you were doing during that time that you were all together? Did you help them transition or were you just part of the whole crew doing an assortment of duties?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.477804510125104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very exciting to be part of that first flight. As you probably know, Anatoly Solovyev and Nikolai Budarin also went up on the Shuttle, so they were my crew. And sat on the mid-deck. I sat with them on ascent. I also acted as an interpreter, too, because they were only with us for about three months in training. We transferred them after docking. It was very exciting to see the Mir, to actually get on there. Although there was a lot of extra hardware there, it was still somewhat familiar. I recognized all the panels and so forth.\\n\\n The hardest part was leaving them and not staying with them, and I realized how tightly we had started to bond as a crew when we got ready to close that hatch and I was going to be on one side and they were going to be on the other. That was probably the hardest time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. And then as you slowly leave and see them in the rear-view mirror, I'm sure that part of you wanted to be there, and I'm sure part of you was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's like any job. I had that sense, as we were closing the hatch. Then immediately my brain's back in the time line, so then I think about it after the flight. But there was just that period there. I think even Hoot [Gibson] noticed it. I mean, Hoot was feeling it. It's just kind of, \"Well, it would have been nice to stay.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us some of the things that you were doing during that time that you were all together? Did you help them transition or were you just part of the whole crew doing an assortment of duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean on--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the docking."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.642005011250113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's like any job. I had that sense, as we were closing the hatch. Then immediately my brain's back in the time line, so then I think about it after the flight. But there was just that period there. I think even Hoot [Gibson] noticed it. I mean, Hoot was feeling it. It's just kind of, \"Well, it would have been nice to stay.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us some of the things that you were doing during that time that you were all together? Did you help them transition or were you just part of the whole crew doing an assortment of duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean on--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the docking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the docking flight, all the duties are very well laid out. As soon as we took over Norm's seat, his so-called Lojement seat, and put it in to the Soyuz, he and Anatoly and Nick became the Mir crew. So that happened not long after docking. We picked up Norm. We brought Norm back. We brought Norm, Vladimir, and Gennady [Strekalov] back. They became part of our crew. Then Anatoly and Nick became the Mir crew. I didn't see much of them except for pre-planned events after that, because their job was then to receive control of the Mir and to work with their Mission Control Center, the TsUP.\\n\\n Our job in the Space Lab, for Ellen Baker and I, was to start the medical analysis on Norm and Vladimir and Gennady, and that's what we did. We had a whole suite of experiments, everything from blood work to cardiopulmonary work, to lower-body negative-pressure work, cardiovascular type of work. We had to do that on orbit to get the Zero-G data. That took much of our time for the dock time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were your experiences different this last time when you were up visiting [STS-89] and your duties that were there on this last flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.097401327922736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the thing is that Anatoly was there again. [Laughter] When we opened the hatch, it was Anatoly and Pavel Vinogradov. It was really fun to see Anatoly. So one of the things we did before we closed the hatch and left is, I went in on the other side of the hatch and they took a picture of Anatoly and I inside the Mir before I came back over, and when Mission Control in Moscow called us after undocking, they asked me what side of the hatch I was on. [Laughter] I told them, unfortunately, I was on the Shuttle side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] That had to be fun. You all had a good visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a good visit. He had been working very hard on this particular increment. I think history shows the systems were starting to degrade, a lot of maintenance required. He told me he had been working very hard and hadn't had much sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you visited with him through other communication means up in the Mir, or was this the first time you had seen--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked to him once on the ham radio when I had called up to talk to Andy. So we had talked once on the ham radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He'll be home soon and maybe you'll get a chance to visit with him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 23.441557031025262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a good visit. He had been working very hard on this particular increment. I think history shows the systems were starting to degrade, a lot of maintenance required. He told me he had been working very hard and hadn't had much sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you visited with him through other communication means up in the Mir, or was this the first time you had seen--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked to him once on the ham radio when I had called up to talk to Andy. So we had talked once on the ham radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He'll be home soon and maybe you'll get a chance to visit with him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about some of the equipments that you have helped put together, if you have some specific ones that you have helped design or that you feel are very important, that have gone through with the Shuttle-Mir Project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.60198221632365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents homesteaded in 1948, and my mother lived in a tent partly while she was pregnant with me. My first house after I was born was two “sheep herder” cookhouses moved together. We had no indoor plumbing. They hauled water. We had a small oil stove until I was about three or four and an outhouse beyond that. Nothing around us. At night, no lights to the north, absolutely no lights to the north, and at night the Milky Way was a big white band across the sky. That's how I saw Sputnik. That was my first introduction to real space flight, was watching it go over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been thrilling for you to get to see the stars from the other side."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they don't twinkle out there. [Laughter] No, it is, there are a lot more. What is it Carl Sagan said--billions and billions. It's a much different picture, no less spectacular than what we used to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Earth, when you're looking down on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Earth. We have no sensors that really do justice to what you see from space, no artificial sensors, except the human eye--the depth, the colors, the motion. We see still pictures, but in space you're moving 17,500 miles per hour, once every ninety minutes, orbits slightly precessing, so you're covering a different part of the planet. I'd always wanted at least one orbit at the window, ninety minutes. I never got it. There's just never enough time to really do that. But I've seen some pretty spectacular things that will stay with me my entire life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure it's never the same."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.668869129248499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they don't twinkle out there. [Laughter] No, it is, there are a lot more. What is it Carl Sagan said--billions and billions. It's a much different picture, no less spectacular than what we used to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Earth, when you're looking down on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Earth. We have no sensors that really do justice to what you see from space, no artificial sensors, except the human eye--the depth, the colors, the motion. We see still pictures, but in space you're moving 17,500 miles per hour, once every ninety minutes, orbits slightly precessing, so you're covering a different part of the planet. I'd always wanted at least one orbit at the window, ninety minutes. I never got it. There's just never enough time to really do that. But I've seen some pretty spectacular things that will stay with me my entire life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure it's never the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's never the same. The Earth is a dynamic planet; it's always changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The successes of Shuttle-Mir, of Phase One."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.632076810276109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Earth. We have no sensors that really do justice to what you see from space, no artificial sensors, except the human eye--the depth, the colors, the motion. We see still pictures, but in space you're moving 17,500 miles per hour, once every ninety minutes, orbits slightly precessing, so you're covering a different part of the planet. I'd always wanted at least one orbit at the window, ninety minutes. I never got it. There's just never enough time to really do that. But I've seen some pretty spectacular things that will stay with me my entire life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure it's never the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's never the same. The Earth is a dynamic planet; it's always changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The successes of Shuttle-Mir, of Phase One."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The successes of Phase One. Number one, we elevated our interactions as a people. I think it's been said many times before, we've spent many years and billions of dollars as adversaries. In the course of this interaction, we have forced many diverse groups to work together, not just the flight crews. I think flight crews are probably the easiest to integrate across the board—because they share a common goal. They're like pilots. This is your work and you enjoy it. But we integrated researchers, we integrated flight controllers, we integrated managers, and it was a necessary thing to do before we actually started the International Space Station.\\n\\n The International Space Station is probably the most challenging civil engineering project ever undertaken. If we had to compound that with all of the other language and cultural and technical issues that we've learned about in Phase One, I think we would have put it at risk, higher risk. It's already challenging enough. Now we can go into this assembly not having solved every problem, but solving a large number of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the few years, is there a high point that's in your mind that you see as maybe the greatest contribution that's been made either from you or from the program as a whole?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.156648087602665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No real lows. I think if you look at lessons learned, even though we had established a collaborative medical research effort with the Russians over the years, and it had its high points and low points, it probably would have benefited our research and researchers had we forged some tighter agreements to begin with. We flew microgravity equipments which were not always located in a microgravity environment, but we knew that was going to be a problem from the Russian researchers who don't enjoy a close relationship with the companies, like Energia and so forth. They're not always a prime player. It's a difference in our definition of who the customer is.\\n\\n So, knowing that the Russian investigators themselves were having some problems, probably it should have alerted us that we might as well, but I think we've taught the Russians something about the importance of research and controlling the variables, understanding the environment, being able to document it, and how we treat our customers and researchers. So while I feel for some of our researchers who didn't get their data, what they went through was a contributing lesson to how we can improve that cultural attitude for the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hundreds of people were involved, but at the same time so much was done in such a little bit of time. Do you see more and more being able to be accomplished in the next few years for Phase Two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Russians?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's going to depend entirely on the Russian economic system. I think that's probably what the Russians will tell you and have told me. They are right now in a position of really determining what their funding's going to be for their space program and for their companies. That will affect how we do business in the future. Their researchers right now are very tight on funds. We are helping to fund joint research such as medical research in Russia, but they're going to have to eventually do that themselves. Phase Two, they will have to develop the processes for peer review equipment selection, manifesting, and operations on the Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during Phase One, you felt that the sharing of information between the two international partners, it flowed? Was it fair?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.564675017287607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very dependent on the circumstances and spotty. And I wouldn't have expected anything else. We're talking about a country that was under Communism for 70 years. It would have been very naive to think, well, we'll sign an agreement and you can change an entire mental outlook on people and life and politics overnight. It just wasn't going to happen. We were told that in our cultural training classes. I was told that by my friends in Star City. One of them would always say, \"Now, Bonnie.\" [Russian phrase] Okay. This is how it really is. And this is why it is. We couldn't just take our motives and lay them over like a template on the Russians. We had to understand what was making them think this way, what historically motivated them.\\n\\n So, no, we didn't always get the information we need. We didn't always ask the right question. That's one of the things that I learned: you have to ask the right question if you expect even close to the right answer. It doesn't mean they were hiding anything intentionally, but that's how it worked. So those are the kinds of things that we're learning, the cultural differences, how to read each other, what's really intended, and how to share a common outcome and understand what that means in terms of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you planning a trip back soon to visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, whatever my management decides to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever your future is planned for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe Salihzan is right now planning a trip for the entire crew to come to Uzbekistan, and I know he's working that with General [Yuri] Glazkov at Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope it's an enjoyable one for you. At least you won't have to go and train, and you'll already have the language. I think about how much you've accomplished in just two years for this one project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.960750019208453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, whatever my management decides to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever your future is planned for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe Salihzan is right now planning a trip for the entire crew to come to Uzbekistan, and I know he's working that with General [Yuri] Glazkov at Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope it's an enjoyable one for you. At least you won't have to go and train, and you'll already have the language. I think about how much you've accomplished in just two years for this one project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's actually four years. Four years. Yes, and again I think there are some unsung heroes here. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes work prior to 1993 or it wouldn't have happened. Some of the people that were involved were Mr. Abbey and Dr. Arnold Nicogossian and Dr. Huntoon and some of the other people in the medical area that are here, that, despite the Cold War, were still having dialogue with fairly influential people within the Russian establishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you must be very fulfilled. I would use the word \"proud,\" but you seem very humble. So I know that you've got to be very proud and very fulfilled by the things you've been able to do. I know your future is going to have a whole lot more planned for you. Thanks for sharing what you have. Is there anything else that you'd like to add from your viewpoint that you'd like as part of the whole project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.663580273262621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the focus tends to be on the crew members, and in particular that have flown or had backup roles. But we've had crew members who have served in Russia, the deputy of operations. I don't know if you're going to interview them. But I think they're an important part of the program.\\n\\n We had a tremendous number of the science people who were in Russia with us, and we talked to some of those. An astronaut now, but a former researcher, Dr. Peggy Whitson, spent a lot of long hours with us and made it work for Norm and I. Without her and her people, we would have had a much harder time with procedures and just equipment training and development. So there were a lot of people that made it work.\\n\\n Flight Director Bob Castle and the work that he did in developing relationships with Victor Blagov, I think is very important. My boss, Dave Leestma, who is a very quiet guy, but just ensuring that we would have astronauts there, I mean, he was pretty persuasive with me. [Laughter] So there are a lot of good people that help make these programs work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like you have too many regrets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I have no regrets except that I have not flown on the Station yet. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that I'm still in the process of sharing what I learned. I have all this wonderful information on systems and designs and so forth, and I'm trying my best to ensure we have good dialogue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple of questions, one that I can't avoid asking since you worked with foot restraints and other things on earlier missions. Can you talk about how the Russians viewed restraints and how the Shuttle and then what we'll evolve to in Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.055320713655798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can only speculate based on information I have and when the opportunities are. I think that I saw one chart that said based on where the planets are, that the first opportunity would be like 2011 at the earliest, which means we need to start within the next couple of years seriously planning it and then determining how we test equipment on the Space Station. It would almost have to be early testing if we plan to complete 2002, 2004 for all the final modules. So we need to be thinking about it now if we want to make that window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get your chance to get there. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will probably be too old to go. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don't know now what's going to happen between now and then, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had volunteered to go as an elderly postmenopausal woman. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you might be the only one on that list."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.061467459617553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will probably be too old to go. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don't know now what's going to happen between now and then, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had volunteered to go as an elderly postmenopausal woman. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you might be the only one on that list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've even offered to take a one-way ticket. [Laughter] Many of the early explorers didn't expect to come back, although I'm sure that Lewis and Clark expected to come back. They were gone quite a long time. People that went out into the middle of Africa, I'm not sure ever expected to return to England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of trips, I guess I have to ask, have you had a chance to be back home in those fields of the Northwest?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.179408288463948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had volunteered to go as an elderly postmenopausal woman. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you might be the only one on that list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've even offered to take a one-way ticket. [Laughter] Many of the early explorers didn't expect to come back, although I'm sure that Lewis and Clark expected to come back. They were gone quite a long time. People that went out into the middle of Africa, I'm not sure ever expected to return to England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of trips, I guess I have to ask, have you had a chance to be back home in those fields of the Northwest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My parents still ranch, and I go back pretty frequently, as much as I can. We still have cattle and we brand about once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still look up at the stars?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.310453653848832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've even offered to take a one-way ticket. [Laughter] Many of the early explorers didn't expect to come back, although I'm sure that Lewis and Clark expected to come back. They were gone quite a long time. People that went out into the middle of Africa, I'm not sure ever expected to return to England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of trips, I guess I have to ask, have you had a chance to be back home in those fields of the Northwest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My parents still ranch, and I go back pretty frequently, as much as I can. We still have cattle and we brand about once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still look up at the stars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, although it's getting harder. We now have in the Yakima Valley a lot of xenon lights at night, and it gets a little harder to see the stars. Civilization encroaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does your Marine father feel about you being up? Does he go out when you're up in the Shuttle and look for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.567170726498702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My parents still ranch, and I go back pretty frequently, as much as I can. We still have cattle and we brand about once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still look up at the stars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, although it's getting harder. We now have in the Yakima Valley a lot of xenon lights at night, and it gets a little harder to see the stars. Civilization encroaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does your Marine father feel about you being up? Does he go out when you're up in the Shuttle and look for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come to the launches. Oh, yes, they've always supported me and my brothers and sister in anything that we did. My parents have a very interesting attitude about life. They measure people by their character, and as long as we tried hard at what we were doing as good citizens, they didn't compare us. They're proud of what I do. They're proud of my sister, who's a teacher. And they're proud of my brothers. They love space, but there are other things that they measure us by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least when you're floating above, they know where you are."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.963523029443001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, although it's getting harder. We now have in the Yakima Valley a lot of xenon lights at night, and it gets a little harder to see the stars. Civilization encroaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does your Marine father feel about you being up? Does he go out when you're up in the Shuttle and look for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come to the launches. Oh, yes, they've always supported me and my brothers and sister in anything that we did. My parents have a very interesting attitude about life. They measure people by their character, and as long as we tried hard at what we were doing as good citizens, they didn't compare us. They're proud of what I do. They're proud of my sister, who's a teacher. And they're proud of my brothers. They love space, but there are other things that they measure us by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least when you're floating above, they know where you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They can keep an eye out on you. We thank you for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 15.515025588270001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come to the launches. Oh, yes, they've always supported me and my brothers and sister in anything that we did. My parents have a very interesting attitude about life. They measure people by their character, and as long as we tried hard at what we were doing as good citizens, they didn't compare us. They're proud of what I do. They're proud of my sister, who's a teacher. And they're proud of my brothers. They love space, but there are other things that they measure us by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least when you're floating above, they know where you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They can keep an eye out on you. We thank you for your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Appreciate it. Thanks.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off, then on again.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8928907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With toast. And establish some relationships with the people there, and maybe they would think a little bit differently about women in their program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you mentioned earlier you were asked to be the backup. Was there any chance or any talk at all that you would have a chance to fly after Norm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. In fact, I was asked if I wanted to fly the second flight. I was asked by the Director's office. I really would have wanted to, but at that time, because of the rapidity of leaving and so forth, there were some family strains involved in that, so I said yes the first time. I said, \"I need to defer the second flight because I need to be back in the United States.\" But then I told them that I'd really consider the third flight, the third increment. Well, about the time they got ready to make that decision was when I was still under a medical consideration. So, I was willing to do it, I was asked to do it, but circumstances precluded it. So I've come back and flown two Shuttle flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you had your own near-Mir experience. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Near-Mir. [Laughter] I was very fortunate to have been on the first docking mission and the eighth docking mission, especially with Salihzan. I've had wonderful crews. Hoot Gibson was extraordinary as a commander. Terry Wilcutt was extraordinary as a commander. I really enjoyed working for both of them and the crews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must give you a good feeling when you see Kargapolov and all these folks when you're in those International Space Station meetings and you see them, knowing what they think of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2143230000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. In fact, I was asked if I wanted to fly the second flight. I was asked by the Director's office. I really would have wanted to, but at that time, because of the rapidity of leaving and so forth, there were some family strains involved in that, so I said yes the first time. I said, \"I need to defer the second flight because I need to be back in the United States.\" But then I told them that I'd really consider the third flight, the third increment. Well, about the time they got ready to make that decision was when I was still under a medical consideration. So, I was willing to do it, I was asked to do it, but circumstances precluded it. So I've come back and flown two Shuttle flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you had your own near-Mir experience. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Near-Mir. [Laughter] I was very fortunate to have been on the first docking mission and the eighth docking mission, especially with Salihzan. I've had wonderful crews. Hoot Gibson was extraordinary as a commander. Terry Wilcutt was extraordinary as a commander. I really enjoyed working for both of them and the crews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must give you a good feeling when you see Kargapolov and all these folks when you're in those International Space Station meetings and you see them, knowing what they think of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels good. Their head medical doctor now kisses my hand. I used to have that happen in Germany. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now we're moving on to the Russians."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.57147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Near-Mir. [Laughter] I was very fortunate to have been on the first docking mission and the eighth docking mission, especially with Salihzan. I've had wonderful crews. Hoot Gibson was extraordinary as a commander. Terry Wilcutt was extraordinary as a commander. I really enjoyed working for both of them and the crews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must give you a good feeling when you see Kargapolov and all these folks when you're in those International Space Station meetings and you see them, knowing what they think of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels good. Their head medical doctor now kisses my hand. I used to have that happen in Germany. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now we're moving on to the Russians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now moving on to the Russians. I don't even consider it sexist, because I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very respectful, isn't it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels good. Their head medical doctor now kisses my hand. I used to have that happen in Germany. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now we're moving on to the Russians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now moving on to the Russians. I don't even consider it sexist, because I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very respectful, isn't it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially to you. That was neat. I'm glad you shared that with us. Even in America, when the cosmonauts were here, were there experiences or times that you--"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1870000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now moving on to the Russians. I don't even consider it sexist, because I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very respectful, isn't it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially to you. That was neat. I'm glad you shared that with us. Even in America, when the cosmonauts were here, were there experiences or times that you--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did talk to Salihzan. I really enjoyed my time with him. He's a very unique individual. He was alone without his wife for a while, so I took him out to dinner a couple of times and we've had a chance to talk about his country. What I found so interesting that Salihzan and I shared, and I don't know if he told you, he grew up in a very rural area of Kyrgyzstan, and he was sitting out in the middle of the fields watching the airplanes go over and wanted to become a cosmonaut. My mind was really solidified the day I was doing some sort of manual labor and I looked up and saw this contrail. I knew it was following an airplane into the Yakima TACAN on its way to Seattle. I'd never been in an airplane. I was in high school. I said, \"There's just something else for me,\" you know. \"I want to be in that contrail.\" And we shared that together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a nice connection."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially to you. That was neat. I'm glad you shared that with us. Even in America, when the cosmonauts were here, were there experiences or times that you--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did talk to Salihzan. I really enjoyed my time with him. He's a very unique individual. He was alone without his wife for a while, so I took him out to dinner a couple of times and we've had a chance to talk about his country. What I found so interesting that Salihzan and I shared, and I don't know if he told you, he grew up in a very rural area of Kyrgyzstan, and he was sitting out in the middle of the fields watching the airplanes go over and wanted to become a cosmonaut. My mind was really solidified the day I was doing some sort of manual labor and I looked up and saw this contrail. I knew it was following an airplane into the Yakima TACAN on its way to Seattle. I'd never been in an airplane. I was in high school. I said, \"There's just something else for me,\" you know. \"I want to be in that contrail.\" And we shared that together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a nice connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very good connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No matter what language it is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did talk to Salihzan. I really enjoyed my time with him. He's a very unique individual. He was alone without his wife for a while, so I took him out to dinner a couple of times and we've had a chance to talk about his country. What I found so interesting that Salihzan and I shared, and I don't know if he told you, he grew up in a very rural area of Kyrgyzstan, and he was sitting out in the middle of the fields watching the airplanes go over and wanted to become a cosmonaut. My mind was really solidified the day I was doing some sort of manual labor and I looked up and saw this contrail. I knew it was following an airplane into the Yakima TACAN on its way to Seattle. I'd never been in an airplane. I was in high school. I said, \"There's just something else for me,\" you know. \"I want to be in that contrail.\" And we shared that together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a nice connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very good connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No matter what language it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What culture, what language, what gender. We had a common motivator that brought us to the same place at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there more that you want to do with the space? You've looked at all the experiments, your microgravity, it's the physics, all these different components. Is there something else that you want to do? Can you see an experiment or a function that would go on the International Space Station that you feel will benefit those folks, just based on all your experiences?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00142:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very good connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No matter what language it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What culture, what language, what gender. We had a common motivator that brought us to the same place at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there more that you want to do with the space? You've looked at all the experiments, your microgravity, it's the physics, all these different components. Is there something else that you want to do? Can you see an experiment or a function that would go on the International Space Station that you feel will benefit those folks, just based on all your experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nothing that hasn't probably already been addressed. I have the opportunity through a lot of different groups to make inputs. Some of them may not be so good. [Laughter] Some of them may be something someone hasn't thought about. Just having the opportunity to interact with them is good. I'll say, \"Well, I saw this on this flight. Maybe this would help,\" or, \"Did you know this group is doing this?\" So maybe one of the benefits of the breadth of what I've done is being able to identify connections that can be made, that maybe haven't been made. I enjoy doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since we've talked off and on about women's issues while we've chatted with you, do you feel that that's something, now that the Russians have declared you a tough woman, that you'll be able to help at least other people see the issues that shouldn't affect women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.550549057027894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that time, well, because I'm an old timer I guess, because they don't do that nowadays I guess, but maybe with some exceptions. But at that time, there was a big, you know, a big book full of profiles or project descriptions or whatever you call it, position descriptions. And you could kind of leaf through it. And I think maybe they could point you to particular areas of interest like education jobs, or maybe, I'm not sure if they had it organized by area of the world. But somehow I zeroed in on this particular position and it sounded interesting and it kind of overlapped with some of my prior training and etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family and friends think about you applying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, by then I had moved away from my home of Michigan. They knew I was pretty independent. You know, I had gone the route of growing the long hair and becoming, you know, sort of an activist in the hubbub of the antiwar and civil rights activities in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Back then, you know, they kind of knew I was somewhat marching to a different drum than what I was kind of, they'd probably hoped the direction I go in, but so I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it fit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think it totally surprised them. I think my dear mother was, you know, understandably like probably every parent, concerned about my safety and health. But they, I think, basically they gave me my blessing, their blessing. And I always had their support, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got accepted, I guess, quickly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.500610063364327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, by then I had moved away from my home of Michigan. They knew I was pretty independent. You know, I had gone the route of growing the long hair and becoming, you know, sort of an activist in the hubbub of the antiwar and civil rights activities in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Back then, you know, they kind of knew I was somewhat marching to a different drum than what I was kind of, they'd probably hoped the direction I go in, but so I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it fit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think it totally surprised them. I think my dear mother was, you know, understandably like probably every parent, concerned about my safety and health. But they, I think, basically they gave me my blessing, their blessing. And I always had their support, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got accepted, I guess, quickly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relatively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other people wait a long time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.66734451484925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think it totally surprised them. I think my dear mother was, you know, understandably like probably every parent, concerned about my safety and health. But they, I think, basically they gave me my blessing, their blessing. And I always had their support, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got accepted, I guess, quickly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relatively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other people wait a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.16956112944352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had whatever it was, three or four day training in Atlanta, I believe, or whatever they call that. Orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were on a plane. And I was in a group of about 15 volunteers, unlike I think the trend currently in Peace Corps at that time. You know, it was a very mixed group, but we all worked under the Department of Community Development in The Gambia and had different jobs. I mean, several women volunteers were doing like day care center, quote, jobs, which and, you know, one of my buddies was, already was a civil engineer and I'm still very good friend with him. He was a civil engineer who was a hydrologist who was doing water resources projects like building little culverts and digging wells and that sort of thing. Three or four others were construction volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a mix."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.743956810492797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had whatever it was, three or four day training in Atlanta, I believe, or whatever they call that. Orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were on a plane. And I was in a group of about 15 volunteers, unlike I think the trend currently in Peace Corps at that time. You know, it was a very mixed group, but we all worked under the Department of Community Development in The Gambia and had different jobs. I mean, several women volunteers were doing like day care center, quote, jobs, which and, you know, one of my buddies was, already was a civil engineer and I'm still very good friend with him. He was a civil engineer who was a hydrologist who was doing water resources projects like building little culverts and digging wells and that sort of thing. Three or four others were construction volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a mix."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a mix. And that was fine. I mean, I do understand Peace Corps is gone in this two directions where basically it's a more focused kind of strategy, but that's what our mix was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you when you went in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.493285344991996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were on a plane. And I was in a group of about 15 volunteers, unlike I think the trend currently in Peace Corps at that time. You know, it was a very mixed group, but we all worked under the Department of Community Development in The Gambia and had different jobs. I mean, several women volunteers were doing like day care center, quote, jobs, which and, you know, one of my buddies was, already was a civil engineer and I'm still very good friend with him. He was a civil engineer who was a hydrologist who was doing water resources projects like building little culverts and digging wells and that sort of thing. Three or four others were construction volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a mix."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a mix. And that was fine. I mean, I do understand Peace Corps is gone in this two directions where basically it's a more focused kind of strategy, but that's what our mix was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you when you went in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of my cohort, and that was, I think I was 25 because I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the rest of them were straight out of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.75759306583264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty, almost, pretty much. And with a couple of exceptions. And I think the age difference, for me at that time, was really significant. For one, I had had more work experience and I also had a master's degree already and I'd been living on my own, you know, and I was. It was just who I am. I mean, for whatever number of reasons, I was very focused and kind of on a professional task. And there were several others that fit that mold, but a lot of the others were just like babes out of undergrad school. And not to say they didn't do well, but. And I also, that year, that was like the tail kind of getting toward the tail end of the Vietnam War era. And I think the difference between my experience during a very, like I entered as an undergrad in 1969 and that was still the civil rights era and the Vietnam era. It was very intense. And of course, I was in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which was a very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hotbed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hotbed. And so I was exposed to a lot of that stuff. And most of the people in my group didn't have that kind of experience. And, you know, as a result, we kind of had different perspectives. I mean, it's not that we didn't get along, but I think I took, I had both a professional, some kind of professional skills and a kind of a mindset and a consciousness around kind of the political ramifications of Peace Corps work and what we were trying to do in The Gambia. And that did me well. I mean, I think I basically felt like I was taking this more seriously than the other ones. Most of the others, there were others that, like my hydrologist friend, he also had a master's and he was very professional about his work. I mean, we all had fun, but we said we were there to do a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you got to, I should know. What is the capital of The Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what was the capital of The Gambia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.16986798250943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what was the capital of The Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're forgiven for not knowing, but it's Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, yeah, we flew in. You know, it was a very memorable, I still remember this very distinctly. You know, we flew, I think, through either LaGuardia or JFK via from Atlanta, I believe. And then, you know, it was an eight hour flight roughly. We first landed in Dakar. It was on September 1st, 1976. We landed. And as you come into Dakar and, you know, it's like an overnight flight, you come in and it's very dramatic because you come in and the sun is just rising, more or less, when the, just barely dawn. And what you first see actually is a lighthouse, which is on the very westernmost tip of Africa, flashing, and you're looking out the window and you look down. And it's just very dramatic, like Africa, you know, like we made it. We're going to make it.\n\nAnd we, you know, we transferred to the Dakar airport and ended up sleepy eyed and groggy in what was then the earlier version of the what is now an international airport. But at that time, it's called Yundum International Airport now, but at that time it was little tiny Yundum airport, which was literally like a little tiny building. And the landing strip was made of, this is their national airport, is made of leftover landing strip, metal landing strip pieces left over from World War II. Because World War II, in World War II, I think the British had a presence and they used The Gambia, I think, as like a launching pad for their North African campaigns. And so basically they're like these metal interlocking grids that would be pieced together and laid on, you know, on the ground. And that would form, that was their airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the landing strip."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.633186647232698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're forgiven for not knowing, but it's Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, yeah, we flew in. You know, it was a very memorable, I still remember this very distinctly. You know, we flew, I think, through either LaGuardia or JFK via from Atlanta, I believe. And then, you know, it was an eight hour flight roughly. We first landed in Dakar. It was on September 1st, 1976. We landed. And as you come into Dakar and, you know, it's like an overnight flight, you come in and it's very dramatic because you come in and the sun is just rising, more or less, when the, just barely dawn. And what you first see actually is a lighthouse, which is on the very westernmost tip of Africa, flashing, and you're looking out the window and you look down. And it's just very dramatic, like Africa, you know, like we made it. We're going to make it.\n\nAnd we, you know, we transferred to the Dakar airport and ended up sleepy eyed and groggy in what was then the earlier version of the what is now an international airport. But at that time, it's called Yundum International Airport now, but at that time it was little tiny Yundum airport, which was literally like a little tiny building. And the landing strip was made of, this is their national airport, is made of leftover landing strip, metal landing strip pieces left over from World War II. Because World War II, in World War II, I think the British had a presence and they used The Gambia, I think, as like a launching pad for their North African campaigns. And so basically they're like these metal interlocking grids that would be pieced together and laid on, you know, on the ground. And that would form, that was their airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the landing strip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the landing strip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was Dakar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.300230428682344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the landing strip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was Dakar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by the time. No, no, this is Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dakar was more developed. But Banjul is, at that time The Gambia only had 100,000 people, the whole country. And I guess I was told recently that now it's like over a million. I haven't checked but, you know, it's. And I actually I'm concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just birth rate or is this immigration as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.444700476313713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by the time. No, no, this is Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dakar was more developed. But Banjul is, at that time The Gambia only had 100,000 people, the whole country. And I guess I was told recently that now it's like over a million. I haven't checked but, you know, it's. And I actually I'm concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just birth rate or is this immigration as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's probably birth rate. I think they have a lot of emigration from the country, you know, like many African countries. But even then with that, you know, and whether there are any refugees from nearby countries, you know, that could be part of it. I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Dakar, you then went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.938556084793014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dakar was more developed. But Banjul is, at that time The Gambia only had 100,000 people, the whole country. And I guess I was told recently that now it's like over a million. I haven't checked but, you know, it's. And I actually I'm concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just birth rate or is this immigration as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's probably birth rate. I think they have a lot of emigration from the country, you know, like many African countries. But even then with that, you know, and whether there are any refugees from nearby countries, you know, that could be part of it. I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Dakar, you then went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transferred and you flew to Banjul?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.82061787199223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's probably birth rate. I think they have a lot of emigration from the country, you know, like many African countries. But even then with that, you know, and whether there are any refugees from nearby countries, you know, that could be part of it. I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Dakar, you then went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transferred and you flew to Banjul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To this tiny little airport."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.35624207999137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transferred and you flew to Banjul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To this tiny little airport."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very cool. You know, it's like, you know, this is a guy from the United States, you know, I had never been in a place like this. And the same with all my mates, you know? So basically we were picked up by the staff, the Gambian staff, and put in a bus and driven through the, it was in September, so it would have been the middle of the rainy season. That is, you are kind of driven through the, down the roads with this tall elephant grass because it was a rainy season, you know, the grass grows like crazy and it's like six feet tall or whatever it seems like. So there's a lush green savannah kind of environment. And then we were taken to initially a couple of days in the capital city in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was Banjul at that point, how many people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.022134310283477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's mostly language and culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language did you learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all learned Mandinka. There's roughly at that time five languages spoken in The Gambia. Mandinka was the largest. And because most of us would be working, we were going to all be assigned to Mandinka areas, you know, speaking areas. And that was fine. And, you know, the training was pretty good. I mean, if I in retrospect, I became, you know, at least minimally fluent in Mandinka. I mean, I stayed for a third year, and I was never highly, perfectly fluent. There were a few in our group that were much better than me and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I had a great time. And there is, and also the nature of my work, which I'll describe, basically allowed me and it almost required me to use English because I was doing a lot of work with English speaking officials and teachers, etc. So, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to end on the training, what was the cultural training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.26373161146696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christianity and Judaism and every other religion says, you know, and so I got it. You know, and I had a, you know, Catholic upbringing. I mean, it all was consistent with what I was taught and not just in my religious education, but in my family. You know, it was just consistent with my, you know, I've subsequently done research about my extended family and its history and how they stuck together through the Depression. And they were all immigrants, all that stuff, you know. And like, it all made sense to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in training, I guess, for three months or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't that long. I think it was only six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. So short term training. And then where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was assigned. I and a couple of other volunteers were assigned to a village that was just close, just down the road from a kind of regional government headquarters called Mansa Konko, which means the king's hill in Mandinka. And we were in the next village over called Pakalinding, and that became my home. Well, for much of the subsequent three years, although I ended up dividing a lot of my time between Pakalinding and then the capital city, which I'll describe why that happened. But the first year in particular, the three, there were, it was me and the two other volunteers, one of which is this guy Mike, who is a hydrologist, water resources guy, and then a young woman named Chris who herself went on and I think she got a PhD in anthropology and worked at the Smithsonian. And my friend Mike got a PhD at MIT in hydrology and I got a doctorate in education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So something was right in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.981453454453522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, the immediate reaction of the local guys was to grab a shovel and kill the snake, you know? But I thought, oh, what a welcoming. Welcome to your new home. And of course, there's no electricity, no running water. And that's how we lived. And subsequently. So that was part of the adventure. You know, some of us would have, might have said, oh, in fact, you know, more recently I'd gone back to Peace Corps staff, which I can tell about later. But you know, what we did, as in my recent Peace Corps experience, was we were required to have all these houses all up to date, da da da, safety, da da da, you know? None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of that, you know, and I mean, I've subsequently heard there are many volunteers historically that lived in even much cruder, rougher conditions, you know, like up in the boondocks, 50 miles from the latest, the nearest telephone, etc. Ours wasn't that, so much that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a door, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a bed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.64605939383725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of that, you know, and I mean, I've subsequently heard there are many volunteers historically that lived in even much cruder, rougher conditions, you know, like up in the boondocks, 50 miles from the latest, the nearest telephone, etc. Ours wasn't that, so much that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a door, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a bed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, we did because we'd bought it and brought it. So anyway, basically, my friend Mike and I, um, the other guy that was in the house, and Chris to some degree, but mostly Mike and me. Because he was an Eagle Scout and I was a Boy Scout and we were all, you know, he was an engineer, you know, a civil engineer. I mean, so we had it in our, and I had done some, you know, I'd grown up doing, you know, maintenance of houses that my mom owned, etc. I mean, so I, you know, I knew how to pound a nail, I'll put it that way. Maybe not always straight, but I knew how to pound a nail. And so we took the, we probably spent three or four, if not six months, finishing off that house and, you know, putting, building screens, going down to the market, buying scrap lumber. You know, finding screening material, getting nails, you know, making stuff, using very crude tools. Building like a wash area where you could take showers, you know, building a shed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Chris benefit from this, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.49562154870805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a bed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, we did because we'd bought it and brought it. So anyway, basically, my friend Mike and I, um, the other guy that was in the house, and Chris to some degree, but mostly Mike and me. Because he was an Eagle Scout and I was a Boy Scout and we were all, you know, he was an engineer, you know, a civil engineer. I mean, so we had it in our, and I had done some, you know, I'd grown up doing, you know, maintenance of houses that my mom owned, etc. I mean, so I, you know, I knew how to pound a nail, I'll put it that way. Maybe not always straight, but I knew how to pound a nail. And so we took the, we probably spent three or four, if not six months, finishing off that house and, you know, putting, building screens, going down to the market, buying scrap lumber. You know, finding screening material, getting nails, you know, making stuff, using very crude tools. Building like a wash area where you could take showers, you know, building a shed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Chris benefit from this, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She benefited, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm looking out for the woman. Did she share the house with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.550690609675613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, we did because we'd bought it and brought it. So anyway, basically, my friend Mike and I, um, the other guy that was in the house, and Chris to some degree, but mostly Mike and me. Because he was an Eagle Scout and I was a Boy Scout and we were all, you know, he was an engineer, you know, a civil engineer. I mean, so we had it in our, and I had done some, you know, I'd grown up doing, you know, maintenance of houses that my mom owned, etc. I mean, so I, you know, I knew how to pound a nail, I'll put it that way. Maybe not always straight, but I knew how to pound a nail. And so we took the, we probably spent three or four, if not six months, finishing off that house and, you know, putting, building screens, going down to the market, buying scrap lumber. You know, finding screening material, getting nails, you know, making stuff, using very crude tools. Building like a wash area where you could take showers, you know, building a shed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Chris benefit from this, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She benefited, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm looking out for the woman. Did she share the house with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. But it was, it was kind of divided up into four two- room units that were, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.834100677417347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She benefited, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm looking out for the woman. Did she share the house with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. But it was, it was kind of divided up into four two- room units that were, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spread along a long building. And what we did is we knocked, we cut holes like doorways between these units, which originally would have been private, you know, two-room apartments, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.844568737552276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spread along a long building. And what we did is we knocked, we cut holes like doorways between these units, which originally would have been private, you know, two-room apartments, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we kind of link them by digging, you know, putting doorways between them and, you know, there's privacy, etc. But then they had one common, one of those units was like a common area. And anyway, yeah, so we did all that. And the thing is, you know, it gave us something to do and it had the benefit that every small, you know, you've got a group of small boys, as the phrase goes there, like boys that were probably between five and eight or nine years old that came over to our house almost every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Quote, to help, or at least to observe and to laugh and teach us Mandinka. And it was funny because many of our volunteers, and one of our fellow volunteers made the point that about language learning. He said, yeah, within the first year I was able to speak Mandinka like a five year old boy, you know? And it's like a joke, but it's not far-fetched because they were, they had infinite patience just to sit there. And if we said, well, what's that? How do you say that? You know, what's that? A lizard. But how do you say tree? How do you, you know, and how do I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would tell you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.84400973025808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, very marginally. I mean, we had very little involvement of our central office staff. And in the time I was there in three years, I think there were four different directors, country directors. And, you know, it was just, uh, nothing terrible happened. But, you know, for various reasons, people were. You know, I worked with about four different directors. And so by the time, you know, anyway, there wasn't a lot of support from the office. And in some ways I wanted more support. And in some ways I quickly I think I gradually liked it or not. I figured I'm out here, I've got to figure it out now. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we move on to that, is there anything you want to say about the home stay when you first got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, there were a couple of my, these other two volunteers. I think all three of us went in the same home stay I think. I know Chris, the woman, Christine, she and I were in that village for the home stay and maybe Mike, I don't remember for sure. But yeah, I mean for me personally. Poor Chris. She came down with malaria. I mean, she didn't know what it was, but they subsequently figured out she had malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the family help you when you then came back to town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.82667747806453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, there were a couple of my, these other two volunteers. I think all three of us went in the same home stay I think. I know Chris, the woman, Christine, she and I were in that village for the home stay and maybe Mike, I don't remember for sure. But yeah, I mean for me personally. Poor Chris. She came down with malaria. I mean, she didn't know what it was, but they subsequently figured out she had malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the family help you when you then came back to town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. And I'll tell you about them. And that's one of the greatest things I've ever had in my life. One of the greatest experience, sets of experiences with that family. But yeah, I was, I spent the first, you know, I did my home stay, which is only like a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, only? Some places it's much longer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.80339846099386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think it was only like two or three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, I, unfortunately, I think I probably had dysentery then, so I was, I just generally, I was pretty tired and didn't feel well most of the time. So I think a lot of my experience in that period was just through that gauze of just being sick. But, you know, it was a very intense exposure to all sorts of things, like living surrounded by a bunch of curious kids and people, and they're all like staring at me and nobody was ever hostile or anything. But it was, you know, very little privacy, having to eat food, which I didn't honestly initially I didn't like Gambian food. It took me about a year before I started to liking it. And even then there were some things I never really liked. And being hot and mosquitoes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's just, and no privacy and not knowing it, you know, it's not easy. It's these things are like really rough and you've got to really be kind of tough and strong and, you know, I don't claim that I was like Superman. You know, I was a human being, you know, a young 24, 25 year old guy. So anyway, plus being sick so. And poor Chris got, she had malaria and so she was miserable. I mean, she was, I think, whatever, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had a fever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 53.707899334560324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's just, and no privacy and not knowing it, you know, it's not easy. It's these things are like really rough and you've got to really be kind of tough and strong and, you know, I don't claim that I was like Superman. You know, I was a human being, you know, a young 24, 25 year old guy. So anyway, plus being sick so. And poor Chris got, she had malaria and so she was miserable. I mean, she was, I think, whatever, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had a fever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever. I mean, multiple symptoms, I'll put it that way. So it was not the most pleasant home stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but and, you know, I don't think, you know, Peace Corps staff did much to prepare the host families. But, you know, like, of course, they were, my family that I ended up developing a strong relationship with for not just my three years as a PCV, but I subsequently went back to The Gambia a couple of years later for another two years under an AID project, USAID, and all those five years was very tight with that family, which I could tell you more about. But anyway, that was my home stay type of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So why don't you take time out and talk about this family before we get to figuring out what your job is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.453130696624097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You then continued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I mean by the time the end of my second year was coming I, by then everything was clicking, you know, like the project was rolling. I mean, I'd gotten beyond that first year of frustration and just started off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took almost a whole year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it did. I mean, it took me six months before I even started doing any real work outside, you know, nailing, making things for my house, I mean. And, but I mean, the advantage of that initial six months also gave me time to get to know the community and learn Mandinka, etc., etc. But, you know, it wasn't like totally wasted time. But in any case, that was c'est la vie, that's the way it was and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.725700774026773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I mean by the time the end of my second year was coming I, by then everything was clicking, you know, like the project was rolling. I mean, I'd gotten beyond that first year of frustration and just started off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took almost a whole year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it did. I mean, it took me six months before I even started doing any real work outside, you know, nailing, making things for my house, I mean. And, but I mean, the advantage of that initial six months also gave me time to get to know the community and learn Mandinka, etc., etc. But, you know, it wasn't like totally wasted time. But in any case, that was c'est la vie, that's the way it was and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we ended up and I was like the secretary of this literacy committee. I wrote all the minutes of the meetings and wrote reports, etc., and some of, many of which, all of which really, or a good bulk of which are in this collection I'm giving to American University. I'm. I was very meticulous. I have all these notebooks from all these meetings and things I went to and I've been thumbing through a few of them just this past week or so. And I think, man, that was a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a lot of work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.139667526696414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it did. I mean, it took me six months before I even started doing any real work outside, you know, nailing, making things for my house, I mean. And, but I mean, the advantage of that initial six months also gave me time to get to know the community and learn Mandinka, etc., etc. But, you know, it wasn't like totally wasted time. But in any case, that was c'est la vie, that's the way it was and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we ended up and I was like the secretary of this literacy committee. I wrote all the minutes of the meetings and wrote reports, etc., and some of, many of which, all of which really, or a good bulk of which are in this collection I'm giving to American University. I'm. I was very meticulous. I have all these notebooks from all these meetings and things I went to and I've been thumbing through a few of them just this past week or so. And I think, man, that was a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a lot of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of work and this gets to some of the impacts of the work on me professionally. But so that's what we did. And so after and by the end of the second year, I said, man, I don't want to give it up now. It's just getting going. This is getting to be fun, you know, and a great adventure. And I felt so much achievement and I felt like if I left, the thing would kind of fall apart because I, unfortunately, which too often happens in Peace Corps and in international development type of things, too much was dependent on people like me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So did it continue after the third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you've covered all of the bases."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I've probably gone, I've probably gone longer than your thing but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Your time thing. You know, I think, um, I'm just grateful. You know, I'm grateful for the people who put that Peace Corps together, for all the great support I got from the many people I worked with. My fellow volunteers, my host family, the coworkers I had, the villagers in the, you know, in The Gambia, the staff, the Peace Corps staff, the medical officer there who took care of me, you know, in my sick times, and the support I got from my family at home, you know, long distance. And I'm proud of, you know, I think I was a great success. I think I had a great success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00064:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I've probably gone, I've probably gone longer than your thing but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Your time thing. You know, I think, um, I'm just grateful. You know, I'm grateful for the people who put that Peace Corps together, for all the great support I got from the many people I worked with. My fellow volunteers, my host family, the coworkers I had, the villagers in the, you know, in The Gambia, the staff, the Peace Corps staff, the medical officer there who took care of me, you know, in my sick times, and the support I got from my family at home, you know, long distance. And I'm proud of, you know, I think I was a great success. I think I had a great success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm, you know, I maintain an interest in Peace Corps. And I went back and spent another five years at Peace Corps Tonga more recently, which was also fantastic. I could talk another couple of hours about that, but I won't. But that, you know, I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't had such a great experience. And so I'm grateful for that. And I think it's, you know, there's always things that could be improved in any agency. But on balance, my three cheers to Peace Corps and my really heartfelt thanks and appreciation for doing what it does. And it's a great, it's a great use of taxpayers’ money, I'll put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good way to end the interview. Thank you, Paul."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.902292388948368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And was still going on at that point. So when I got there,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got to Afghanistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I immediately learned of a strong cultural difference. When I went up to buy some oranges and decided to try out my Dari, was called Farsi then, a variation of Iranian Persian. And so I went up and I, I knew that you negotiated. And so I started to negotiate and I said, how much is this orange? And he said, It's one Afghani. And I said, well, If I buy two, how much will it be to Afghani? And I said, well, I think I'll take all 10. And he said, I'm not selling any to you. And the reason was because he was horrified. He was even though he was only a street seller of fruit, he was an older man with great dignity. And I had insulted him by over negotiating the. So I learned very early on about that cultural differences were more subtle than I had learned.\n\nSpeaking of the training, learning about Afghanistan, there were two important things that that were an upshot of their training. One was that I met a lifelong friend first there, one of the language teachers who became Dr Isohn Intisar, and whose funeral I went to two months ago in Lodi, California. So we know knew each other. Much of our lives and had great affinity and friendship and affection for each other. The other was a Kennedy was assassinated during that time. And so it was it was really quite in a way, a difficult period. So I found myself in Afghanistan after the training and began my work as an English teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, we're going to back up a little bit. But I also want to go back and just talk about the experience of being in Afghanistan when the president was killed. So you applied. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over the country, the eastern part of the country, New York City, Connecticut, Alabama, Missouri, Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got your master's degree when you applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.87937331968934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over the country, the eastern part of the country, New York City, Connecticut, Alabama, Missouri, Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got your master's degree when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I applied, I applied from graduate school, which I actually left without completing it. Later when I returned, I got my doctorate from the University of Massachusetts in international education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had you been studying before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about going into journalism, and it just it just I just didn't know what I want to do. So I decided to give myself a couple of years and, you know, see what I was like two and three years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.865970355210376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I applied, I applied from graduate school, which I actually left without completing it. Later when I returned, I got my doctorate from the University of Massachusetts in international education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had you been studying before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about going into journalism, and it just it just I just didn't know what I want to do. So I decided to give myself a couple of years and, you know, see what I was like two and three years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to did my undergraduate work at Harvard in English Lit and then went to the University of Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The home of Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.073300394678196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about going into journalism, and it just it just I just didn't know what I want to do. So I decided to give myself a couple of years and, you know, see what I was like two and three years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to did my undergraduate work at Harvard in English Lit and then went to the University of Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The home of Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's right. At least that's where the idea was brooded about,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was discussed at first. So how did you know about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.525889327420217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to did my undergraduate work at Harvard in English Lit and then went to the University of Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The home of Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's right. At least that's where the idea was brooded about,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was discussed at first. So how did you know about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very much devoted follower of of Kennedy And one and I knew of the fact that he'd taken up the Peace Corps as one of his signature signature approaches to foreign international work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied and you were clearly accepted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.250988141578016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's right. At least that's where the idea was brooded about,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was discussed at first. So how did you know about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very much devoted follower of of Kennedy And one and I knew of the fact that he'd taken up the Peace Corps as one of his signature signature approaches to foreign international work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied and you were clearly accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And different part of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different part of the world. Were you happy about being accepted to Afghanistan or did you look back and complain about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.278875712864462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very much devoted follower of of Kennedy And one and I knew of the fact that he'd taken up the Peace Corps as one of his signature signature approaches to foreign international work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied and you were clearly accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And different part of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different part of the world. Were you happy about being accepted to Afghanistan or did you look back and complain about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I, I think I knew enough about the federal government to know that complaining wouldn't get you very far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some people complained and shifted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 31.420973014293846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And different part of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different part of the world. Were you happy about being accepted to Afghanistan or did you look back and complain about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I, I think I knew enough about the federal government to know that complaining wouldn't get you very far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some people complained and shifted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, really? And then I didn't know as much as I thought I did. In any event, I quickly I was quickly brought to a training program at the experiment in International Living in Brattleboro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's where the in country training was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.961158462169546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Logic is different in different cultures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I totally understand that. But I think that all. So you were trained in Brattleboro. How many people were in your your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 45."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all in and in training and education, where they all"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all kinds of different fields. We had a beekeeper. I think we had a warehouse warehouse people who knew how to,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all going to Afghanistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.512398291299496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 45."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all in and in training and education, where they all"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all kinds of different fields. We had a beekeeper. I think we had a warehouse warehouse people who knew how to,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all going to Afghanistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All going to Afghanistan, various forms of educators, probably the largest group was the English as a second language group. And that's what I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you want to say about the training at the time and but family, the friendships you made. But do you think the training now that you've become a professional over all the years in this field, do you think the training adequately prepared you for the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.235998101443883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all kinds of different fields. We had a beekeeper. I think we had a warehouse warehouse people who knew how to,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all going to Afghanistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All going to Afghanistan, various forms of educators, probably the largest group was the English as a second language group. And that's what I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you want to say about the training at the time and but family, the friendships you made. But do you think the training now that you've become a professional over all the years in this field, do you think the training adequately prepared you for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did a fairly good job. I, I think I was fortunate to have very competent people running that program. And certainly the language training was excellent. The cross-cultural training was good. And then, you know, I picked up a lot of my own through my friendships with the Afghans as the chess game was an example of. So I think it you know, I had no complaints at any time about that program. So. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you then flew from somewhere from Boston or somewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.039997890493204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All going to Afghanistan, various forms of educators, probably the largest group was the English as a second language group. And that's what I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you want to say about the training at the time and but family, the friendships you made. But do you think the training now that you've become a professional over all the years in this field, do you think the training adequately prepared you for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did a fairly good job. I, I think I was fortunate to have very competent people running that program. And certainly the language training was excellent. The cross-cultural training was good. And then, you know, I picked up a lot of my own through my friendships with the Afghans as the chess game was an example of. So I think it you know, I had no complaints at any time about that program. So. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you then flew from somewhere from Boston or somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was JFK, but not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, whatever. To where? To Kabul?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.822219878325782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did a fairly good job. I, I think I was fortunate to have very competent people running that program. And certainly the language training was excellent. The cross-cultural training was good. And then, you know, I picked up a lot of my own through my friendships with the Afghans as the chess game was an example of. So I think it you know, I had no complaints at any time about that program. So. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you then flew from somewhere from Boston or somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was JFK, but not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, whatever. To where? To Kabul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we, we overnighted in Tehran and then took what later we called the, the Afghan airlines what we call the Insha'Allah Airlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were numerous Insha’Allah airlines, you know, we had the same airline in Somalia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.246910975917537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was JFK, but not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, whatever. To where? To Kabul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we, we overnighted in Tehran and then took what later we called the, the Afghan airlines what we call the Insha'Allah Airlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were numerous Insha’Allah airlines, you know, we had the same airline in Somalia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Ariana was took us into into Kabul, where I first met Bob Snyder, who would later become my business partner. And Stiner was a legend among Peace Corps directors because he had grown up in Iran and spoke perfect Farsi and impress the Afghans. No end, because not only did he speak their language, but he spoke had better, quote unquote, better than they because it was more formal Irani."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, interesting. All right. So you got to Kabul and then immediately assigned to different places, or was there further training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.718789973241707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we, we overnighted in Tehran and then took what later we called the, the Afghan airlines what we call the Insha'Allah Airlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were numerous Insha’Allah airlines, you know, we had the same airline in Somalia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Ariana was took us into into Kabul, where I first met Bob Snyder, who would later become my business partner. And Stiner was a legend among Peace Corps directors because he had grown up in Iran and spoke perfect Farsi and impress the Afghans. No end, because not only did he speak their language, but he spoke had better, quote unquote, better than they because it was more formal Irani."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, interesting. All right. So you got to Kabul and then immediately assigned to different places, or was there further training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no further training, which brings up the whole matter of Peace Corps training. It started off all in the U.S. or I think Puerto Rico had a Peace Corps center, but basically it was in the U.S. And then by the time I got into providing Peace Corps training, we did it half and half, half in the U.S. And"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now it's totally overseas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.354211081379674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Ariana was took us into into Kabul, where I first met Bob Snyder, who would later become my business partner. And Stiner was a legend among Peace Corps directors because he had grown up in Iran and spoke perfect Farsi and impress the Afghans. No end, because not only did he speak their language, but he spoke had better, quote unquote, better than they because it was more formal Irani."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, interesting. All right. So you got to Kabul and then immediately assigned to different places, or was there further training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no further training, which brings up the whole matter of Peace Corps training. It started off all in the U.S. or I think Puerto Rico had a Peace Corps center, but basically it was in the U.S. And then by the time I got into providing Peace Corps training, we did it half and half, half in the U.S. And"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now it's totally overseas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now it's totally overseas, which I think I think the half and half model was the best preparation because you can do certain things from here that you can't do there and you can do a lot there. You can't do here. So in any event, yeah, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So where you got to Kabul, let me ask what happened when you got off the plane? Were you shocked?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.722486547409227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it wasn't a great invention. But we waited two or three months and finally the place opened and I taught there for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then it was at the college level?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was at the college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Men, women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a few women. And this was a very odd time in Afghanistan in terms of women's rights, because Zahir Shah, the king, had decided that they needed where the Shah there anymore. And you saw actually saw Afghan women in miniskirts. And during those times it was very strange interim time when women had more freedom, I think, than either before or since. And so they joined their fellow students in classes and so on. And this all fell apart when the Taliban came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just going, so where did you live? Did you live at the university?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.237637712850896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a few women. And this was a very odd time in Afghanistan in terms of women's rights, because Zahir Shah, the king, had decided that they needed where the Shah there anymore. And you saw actually saw Afghan women in miniskirts. And during those times it was very strange interim time when women had more freedom, I think, than either before or since. And so they joined their fellow students in classes and so on. And this all fell apart when the Taliban came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just going, so where did you live? Did you live at the university?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We had a Peace Corps rented houses for all the volunteers all over the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Kabul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were lots of volunteers in Kabul."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.708486347612107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We had a Peace Corps rented houses for all the volunteers all over the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Kabul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were lots of volunteers in Kabul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of volunteers in Kabul. The Afghans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared a house with or an apartment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.120540386235675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were lots of volunteers in Kabul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of volunteers in Kabul. The Afghans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared a house with or an apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With two others. Yeah, and we got along sometimes well and sometimes not well. But I remembered that nobody changed. We got electricity occasionally and then the lights would come on. But when they blew out, nobody changed the light bulbs. But yeah, it was a waiting time. The second year I went to Baghlan in the north to teach at a middle school there. And that was a much lovelier experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me point to that. But so you taught English at the university level and they were were they starting students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.689489318039639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of volunteers in Kabul. The Afghans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared a house with or an apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With two others. Yeah, and we got along sometimes well and sometimes not well. But I remembered that nobody changed. We got electricity occasionally and then the lights would come on. But when they blew out, nobody changed the light bulbs. But yeah, it was a waiting time. The second year I went to Baghlan in the north to teach at a middle school there. And that was a much lovelier experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me point to that. But so you taught English at the university level and they were were they starting students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They know some English. What was they like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.099432575599598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With two others. Yeah, and we got along sometimes well and sometimes not well. But I remembered that nobody changed. We got electricity occasionally and then the lights would come on. But when they blew out, nobody changed the light bulbs. But yeah, it was a waiting time. The second year I went to Baghlan in the north to teach at a middle school there. And that was a much lovelier experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me point to that. But so you taught English at the university level and they were were they starting students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They know some English. What was they like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a variety of of abilities in the class. And I remember one tall Pashtun guy, the Pushtuns, that's basically came from the southern and western part of Afghanistan. And he was from Kandahar. And he I was sick one day and I was in bed and he came to visit me with a bunch of oranges. And he said to me, you know, I have to pass my exams because my family would be they spent all this money to send me to Kabul. And if I don't pass, they will have a sense of shame. And they are they do a lot of mischief. My family, they they they happen to take gold and drugs from one part of the border to the other. So anyway, I just hope you get well and I do well. So he left and I the the Afghan fellow who worked for me because I did the house cleaning and stuff, he he started to laugh and he said, you better watch out for that guy. He's one tough guy. And so that set up a kind of a conundrum for me, you know, whether I was going to follow the precepts of good teaching and and flunk the guy or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was that bad? He was not going to do well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.666036195110664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They know some English. What was they like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a variety of of abilities in the class. And I remember one tall Pashtun guy, the Pushtuns, that's basically came from the southern and western part of Afghanistan. And he was from Kandahar. And he I was sick one day and I was in bed and he came to visit me with a bunch of oranges. And he said to me, you know, I have to pass my exams because my family would be they spent all this money to send me to Kabul. And if I don't pass, they will have a sense of shame. And they are they do a lot of mischief. My family, they they they happen to take gold and drugs from one part of the border to the other. So anyway, I just hope you get well and I do well. So he left and I the the Afghan fellow who worked for me because I did the house cleaning and stuff, he he started to laugh and he said, you better watch out for that guy. He's one tough guy. And so that set up a kind of a conundrum for me, you know, whether I was going to follow the precepts of good teaching and and flunk the guy or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was that bad? He was not going to do well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And or whether I would pass him and and my life would be safe. So the passing grade at that time at the University of Kabul was 35 out of 100. The guy got 38 out of 100. I gave him this paper back and he said to me, my family will do anything for you. You will come. We will give you a feast in Kandahar. I said, you did it all by yourself. I did all. We understand all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Take credit, why not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.30374838902551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And or whether I would pass him and and my life would be safe. So the passing grade at that time at the University of Kabul was 35 out of 100. The guy got 38 out of 100. I gave him this paper back and he said to me, my family will do anything for you. You will come. We will give you a feast in Kandahar. I said, you did it all by yourself. I did all. We understand all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Take credit, why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so, anyway, it was there was so much about Afghanistan then. That was 13th century. That was the way things had been done. And I remember speaking with the farmer in in Babylon and asking him how his crops were doing. And he said that we're doing very well for for some time. I said, what's the problem? And he said, well, Genghis Khan destroyed all our underground water supplies. And things have been tough ever since. So it was you know, the memories went back that far. And and it was it was very much a 13th century kingdom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in caste and class or in other ways as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my friend Dr. Intisar once broke them down, according to various broke down the social structure, according to various affinities which included gender, wealth or class religion, since there were two parts of Islamic, the Sunnis and the Shias and then the other subsections of the of the Sunnis and Shias, according to what you saw, how much land you own, whether you're a government official or not, and three or four other categories, all of which were affinities. And it all depended how much that affinity group could provide as to which one you decided to join."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you had choices."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.559720432250566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so, anyway, it was there was so much about Afghanistan then. That was 13th century. That was the way things had been done. And I remember speaking with the farmer in in Babylon and asking him how his crops were doing. And he said that we're doing very well for for some time. I said, what's the problem? And he said, well, Genghis Khan destroyed all our underground water supplies. And things have been tough ever since. So it was you know, the memories went back that far. And and it was it was very much a 13th century kingdom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in caste and class or in other ways as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my friend Dr. Intisar once broke them down, according to various broke down the social structure, according to various affinities which included gender, wealth or class religion, since there were two parts of Islamic, the Sunnis and the Shias and then the other subsections of the of the Sunnis and Shias, according to what you saw, how much land you own, whether you're a government official or not, and three or four other categories, all of which were affinities. And it all depended how much that affinity group could provide as to which one you decided to join."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you had choices."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You within limits. There were choices. Yes, you could you could stick with the Shias if you were a Hazara, as they were called, and the Shias were in the central part of the country. And if they went outside that they were discriminated against. So you could just stay where you were instead of going out there, or you could join the government and, you know, become a government affinity group. There were all kinds of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was a way was there a way of escaping the poor, or you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.955244924722852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my friend Dr. Intisar once broke them down, according to various broke down the social structure, according to various affinities which included gender, wealth or class religion, since there were two parts of Islamic, the Sunnis and the Shias and then the other subsections of the of the Sunnis and Shias, according to what you saw, how much land you own, whether you're a government official or not, and three or four other categories, all of which were affinities. And it all depended how much that affinity group could provide as to which one you decided to join."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you had choices."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You within limits. There were choices. Yes, you could you could stick with the Shias if you were a Hazara, as they were called, and the Shias were in the central part of the country. And if they went outside that they were discriminated against. So you could just stay where you were instead of going out there, or you could join the government and, you know, become a government affinity group. There were all kinds of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was a way was there a way of escaping the poor, or you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Limited. Now, once again, my friend, Dr. Intisar was born a poor child in a village in the central south part of Afghanistan, and he managed to do that. But through dint of extraordinary hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And usually you're stuck."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.505827694136501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You within limits. There were choices. Yes, you could you could stick with the Shias if you were a Hazara, as they were called, and the Shias were in the central part of the country. And if they went outside that they were discriminated against. So you could just stay where you were instead of going out there, or you could join the government and, you know, become a government affinity group. There were all kinds of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was a way was there a way of escaping the poor, or you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Limited. Now, once again, my friend, Dr. Intisar was born a poor child in a village in the central south part of Afghanistan, and he managed to do that. But through dint of extraordinary hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And usually you're stuck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of stratification. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So why did you decide to leave? Did you decide you wanted to leave Kabul or was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.117586326818333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Limited. Now, once again, my friend, Dr. Intisar was born a poor child in a village in the central south part of Afghanistan, and he managed to do that. But through dint of extraordinary hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And usually you're stuck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of stratification. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So why did you decide to leave? Did you decide you wanted to leave Kabul or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a joint decision with the with with Bob Steinar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then why did you do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.797318140909262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of stratification. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So why did you decide to leave? Did you decide you wanted to leave Kabul or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a joint decision with the with with Bob Steinar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then why did you do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were stuck in this university that opened three months late and was not really organized well at all. And I was interested in going to the provinces and seeing what it was like outside Kabul. And he said, go for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just before we leave Kabul, who did you interact with? Did you interact with your teachers, with your fellow teachers, with students, with neighbors, the volunteers, all of the above?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.552575712121403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a joint decision with the with with Bob Steinar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then why did you do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were stuck in this university that opened three months late and was not really organized well at all. And I was interested in going to the provinces and seeing what it was like outside Kabul. And he said, go for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just before we leave Kabul, who did you interact with? Did you interact with your teachers, with your fellow teachers, with students, with neighbors, the volunteers, all of the above?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All, pretty much all of the above. By the time I had been there for a year, I was speaking fairly good Farsi so I could get around quite a bit. And so I met with fellow teachers. We would go off, we'd have parties with them. There were Peace Corps parties. So there was there was a social life. There was also a bit of the how to put it. Afghanistan has always been the crossroads of many civilizations, cultures. And also of adversaries and the Russians and the Americans at that time were vying for influence, and so occasionally we'd go to volunteers to go to parties where there were clearly Afghans from the government who are asking interesting questions about why the American government was supporting certain person and the government. And do you support him or you know, so it was fairly clear that this was kind of a job that we were being watched closely. And that added a little a little taste of"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet any Russian American spies while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.966142854470867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All, pretty much all of the above. By the time I had been there for a year, I was speaking fairly good Farsi so I could get around quite a bit. And so I met with fellow teachers. We would go off, we'd have parties with them. There were Peace Corps parties. So there was there was a social life. There was also a bit of the how to put it. Afghanistan has always been the crossroads of many civilizations, cultures. And also of adversaries and the Russians and the Americans at that time were vying for influence, and so occasionally we'd go to volunteers to go to parties where there were clearly Afghans from the government who are asking interesting questions about why the American government was supporting certain person and the government. And do you support him or you know, so it was fairly clear that this was kind of a job that we were being watched closely. And that added a little a little taste of"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet any Russian American spies while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. And I'm glad the Russians were a little bit they hadn't come in and in great numbers. The Americans had built the university. They had built roads over the country. The Russians built the road north, which went to the highest tunnel, this low lying pass in the world, I think at the time that it was built and which they later used to invade the country. And the Americans built an airport in Kandahar on the supposition that this is USAID and the supposition that planes would have to stop there to refuel on the way to India, which was entirely false, that they had could carry enough fuel that need to stop there. And even if they had, they wouldn't have been any fuel because there was no fuel in the country anyway. This perfect airport, millions and millions and millions of dollars just sat there. Pretty much unused plane is full later. Yes. To the Russian pilots. We're bombing Afghanistan. Yeah, well, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left Kabul and you moved to the north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a middle school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.85126983830096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. And I'm glad the Russians were a little bit they hadn't come in and in great numbers. The Americans had built the university. They had built roads over the country. The Russians built the road north, which went to the highest tunnel, this low lying pass in the world, I think at the time that it was built and which they later used to invade the country. And the Americans built an airport in Kandahar on the supposition that this is USAID and the supposition that planes would have to stop there to refuel on the way to India, which was entirely false, that they had could carry enough fuel that need to stop there. And even if they had, they wouldn't have been any fuel because there was no fuel in the country anyway. This perfect airport, millions and millions and millions of dollars just sat there. Pretty much unused plane is full later. Yes. To the Russian pilots. We're bombing Afghanistan. Yeah, well, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left Kabul and you moved to the north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a middle school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Baghlan. B-A-G-H-L-A-N. And by that time I had married and so my wife and I, who was another, she was a Peace Corps volunteer in group one. Oh, we were there and she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You missed a whole moment. I mean, you just kind of jumped over all that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.945855375889955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a middle school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Baghlan. B-A-G-H-L-A-N. And by that time I had married and so my wife and I, who was another, she was a Peace Corps volunteer in group one. Oh, we were there and she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You missed a whole moment. I mean, you just kind of jumped over all that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend two minutes on meeting your future wife."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.050950417655507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Baghlan. B-A-G-H-L-A-N. And by that time I had married and so my wife and I, who was another, she was a Peace Corps volunteer in group one. Oh, we were there and she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You missed a whole moment. I mean, you just kind of jumped over all that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend two minutes on meeting your future wife."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suffice it to say that we had our wedding party at the ambassador's house because he had fallen for her because she had been an actress in Oklahoma, Laurie, and she'd overcome the ambassador. So he gave us to the party at the ambassador. It also happened that we, in fact, weren't married because the American chargé at the time didn't know U.S. law. U.S. law states you have to be married by a country official, a country in which you reside. He didn't know that. So there were about twenty couples married at that time who turned out not to married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the embassy is an American, embassies are always considered the property of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.278833797395006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend two minutes on meeting your future wife."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suffice it to say that we had our wedding party at the ambassador's house because he had fallen for her because she had been an actress in Oklahoma, Laurie, and she'd overcome the ambassador. So he gave us to the party at the ambassador. It also happened that we, in fact, weren't married because the American chargé at the time didn't know U.S. law. U.S. law states you have to be married by a country official, a country in which you reside. He didn't know that. So there were about twenty couples married at that time who turned out not to married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the embassy is an American, embassies are always considered the property of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t married at the embassy. We just had the party there. OK, so so it turned out that when we were back to train volunteers later on, we found out we weren't married at that time. My my living lady friend kept saying, what are we going to get married? So we're pretty busy now let's wait until we finally went to a police station and with my friend Dr. Intisar’s help, who was translator, we got married by the police department and of course I had to give a bride price. And so I offered twenty dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She still married you for that little money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.75425977488334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suffice it to say that we had our wedding party at the ambassador's house because he had fallen for her because she had been an actress in Oklahoma, Laurie, and she'd overcome the ambassador. So he gave us to the party at the ambassador. It also happened that we, in fact, weren't married because the American chargé at the time didn't know U.S. law. U.S. law states you have to be married by a country official, a country in which you reside. He didn't know that. So there were about twenty couples married at that time who turned out not to married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the embassy is an American, embassies are always considered the property of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t married at the embassy. We just had the party there. OK, so so it turned out that when we were back to train volunteers later on, we found out we weren't married at that time. My my living lady friend kept saying, what are we going to get married? So we're pretty busy now let's wait until we finally went to a police station and with my friend Dr. Intisar’s help, who was translator, we got married by the police department and of course I had to give a bride price. And so I offered twenty dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She still married you for that little money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The policeman looked at me and said, twenty dollars. That's not very much. I said we know each other. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so after that diversion so talk a little bit about the middle school where you taught or Baghlan. What is Baghlan like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 26.3936219720926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t married at the embassy. We just had the party there. OK, so so it turned out that when we were back to train volunteers later on, we found out we weren't married at that time. My my living lady friend kept saying, what are we going to get married? So we're pretty busy now let's wait until we finally went to a police station and with my friend Dr. Intisar’s help, who was translator, we got married by the police department and of course I had to give a bride price. And so I offered twenty dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She still married you for that little money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The policeman looked at me and said, twenty dollars. That's not very much. I said we know each other. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so after that diversion so talk a little bit about the middle school where you taught or Baghlan. What is Baghlan like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Baghlan was small, was a large town, not a city on the way to Kunduz, which is the northernmost city in Afghanistan. And it was primarily agriculture at that time, and this was an agricultural school that I taught at and I had to, I watched the Afghan teachers, how they disciplined the kids and and they they were harsh and how they discipline the kids. And I said, well, you know, I don't know why you're doing that. And I said, well, the kids won't learn unless they're listening and they won't listen if they're talking and you don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they used to switch."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.594302655224194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Columbia University Education Division had been for some years producing textbooks in Afghanistan, in Kabul, and they were distributed throughout the country. They're pretty, pretty good textbooks. I've been taught to teach English and in certain ways in training, which were reasonably successful. And so we use those books and and the aural-oral method, since there were 40 to 50 kids in every classroom, the oral method or the repeat after me in ingroup form was the best method to use at that time. Certainly you couldn't use individual attention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know any of the kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To to know any of them? Oh, well, since they were ten, eight, nine, 10, 11. They weren't they were kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were kids. Was it a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that came from the surrounding area. There were also nurses, volunteer nurses in the town. And but it was there. We didn't have a big presence. We were we were kind of isolated up there. But that was fine. We were part of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the teachers there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.549225172471324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To to know any of them? Oh, well, since they were ten, eight, nine, 10, 11. They weren't they were kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were kids. Was it a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that came from the surrounding area. There were also nurses, volunteer nurses in the town. And but it was there. We didn't have a big presence. We were we were kind of isolated up there. But that was fine. We were part of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the teachers there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we became friends with some of the teachers. The guy who worked with for me in Kabul came up with me to to bottom. And I was began to be a gardener there. And I wanted to it was hard to get fresh, fresh vegetables. So I took some manure that was being sold. I bought some manure and put it on my garden. And this fellow came back who was who is a joker. He was he was always making jokes. And he looked at what I done and he said, did you pay for that? I said, Sure. How much did you pay? Five hundred Afghani or something. And he said only foreigners would pay for shit in Afghanistan. That's the only thing we have a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was a married volunteer, and I've always questioned how different the experiences of a married volunteer and an unmarried volunteering since you were both. And you reflect a little bit about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.721361302745915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that came from the surrounding area. There were also nurses, volunteer nurses in the town. And but it was there. We didn't have a big presence. We were we were kind of isolated up there. But that was fine. We were part of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the teachers there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we became friends with some of the teachers. The guy who worked with for me in Kabul came up with me to to bottom. And I was began to be a gardener there. And I wanted to it was hard to get fresh, fresh vegetables. So I took some manure that was being sold. I bought some manure and put it on my garden. And this fellow came back who was who is a joker. He was he was always making jokes. And he looked at what I done and he said, did you pay for that? I said, Sure. How much did you pay? Five hundred Afghani or something. And he said only foreigners would pay for shit in Afghanistan. That's the only thing we have a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was a married volunteer, and I've always questioned how different the experiences of a married volunteer and an unmarried volunteering since you were both. And you reflect a little bit about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, very much different, because as an unmarried volunteer, Afghans would ask, where is your family? How come they let you come so far alone? It doesn't make any sense to us. Again, this individual group difference where you were individuals from a family weren't really thought to be ready for any kind of independent living, maybe ever, really, because they lived in large compounds and so on and they weren't expected to leave town and so on. So this idea of somebody coming this far alone was strange. But as a married unit, you had a bit more of legitimacy in the cultural context and people could situate you in their own cultural and cultural approaches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you travel around Afghanistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.297976916970264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, very much different, because as an unmarried volunteer, Afghans would ask, where is your family? How come they let you come so far alone? It doesn't make any sense to us. Again, this individual group difference where you were individuals from a family weren't really thought to be ready for any kind of independent living, maybe ever, really, because they lived in large compounds and so on and they weren't expected to leave town and so on. So this idea of somebody coming this far alone was strange. But as a married unit, you had a bit more of legitimacy in the cultural context and people could situate you in their own cultural and cultural approaches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you travel around Afghanistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I did most of my traveling around Afghanistan after my Peace Corps service was done. My then wife went to Iraq to teach English for six months. And for six months, I became a staff member, kind of a writer around the country. So I travel all over the place, through the. I remember once carrying a heavy, heavy load from the U.S. embassy up to a volunteer in the north. And we were in a half ton pickup or two ton pickup. And every day the roads were just atrocious, just full of the potholes that could swallow you. And. And then when it rained, of course, we could go anywhere. And we broke a spring in the truck every 50 miles. We did just break. And so we'd go to the next town and there would always be a blacksmith because there were blacksmiths in every town. So he just"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To fix those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’d fix this and we’d go another 50 miles and find another blacksmith and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you are teaching you were helping with teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.21997435218918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I did most of my traveling around Afghanistan after my Peace Corps service was done. My then wife went to Iraq to teach English for six months. And for six months, I became a staff member, kind of a writer around the country. So I travel all over the place, through the. I remember once carrying a heavy, heavy load from the U.S. embassy up to a volunteer in the north. And we were in a half ton pickup or two ton pickup. And every day the roads were just atrocious, just full of the potholes that could swallow you. And. And then when it rained, of course, we could go anywhere. And we broke a spring in the truck every 50 miles. We did just break. And so we'd go to the next town and there would always be a blacksmith because there were blacksmiths in every town. So he just"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To fix those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’d fix this and we’d go another 50 miles and find another blacksmith and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you are teaching you were helping with teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that point I was I was carrying mail and money and packages to volunteers when we reached the volunteer in the far north with these five heavy cases of material from the embassy. We brought them into his home and somehow he managed to finagle a refrigerator. You had a refrigerator. And I said, what? What in the heck is in these boxes? He said, well, let's open them and find out. Well, it turns out he had a girlfriend in the embassy and she was sending him cartons of beer. I have to confess that I was rather happy. So even though it was technically illegal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you carted all that beer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.134395544841123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and then made the circle right around Afghanistan and went to Mazar-i-Sharif and then Maymana and Herat and then Kandahar and then down below Kandahar into the desert where I got stuck. We got it was a trackless desert. So you sort of had to point your way towards the direction you went. And we got into a dry riverbed and got stuck at noon in the desert, the dusty Hollywood, which was called the empty desert. And there was a a guy who was an evaluator from the University of Texas who was with me. And the driver of the truck was an Afghan. And he and I just lifted the back end of that truck because we knew we'd be dead in about what we didn't. Yeah, well, so lift it up. Well, I mean, the desert would have killed us. It was lifted up, got to where we're going. And so it was was a very interesting trip to see the whole country. The groups I trained later that we trained later at the Center for Research and Education were vaccinated smallpox vaccinations in Afghanistan as a film made out of that that time. Now they went everywhere because they vaccinated every human being in the country. They were remarkable people. Of all the Peace Corps volunteers I've never known or heard of, those were the ones who did the most. They just went everywhere by jeep, by horse, by camel, by mule, by whatever, by walking. And they were all women. They're all women. Because men couldn't vaccinate women, but women could vaccinate men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we could vaccinate men. That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so anyway,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you you did your wife work while you were still a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was still a volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.388142647952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was still a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was also teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were assigned together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.87571405328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was also teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were assigned together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you you've worked a staff for a while in in Afghanistan. And then did you get home or what have you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.4174600592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were assigned together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you you've worked a staff for a while in in Afghanistan. And then did you get home or what have you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That that all that set me on my lifetime work? If before I had a tendency towards that set and I came back work in the Peace Corps as a regional training officer, training volunteers for all over the Middle East and spent a lot of time traveling in Northern Africa and other places. Then when they closed the Peace Corps training office is when I joined the Center for Research and Education and began training volunteers through the Center for Research and Education trained thousands and thousands and some of the"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically it was just outsourced. The training needs to be done by Peace Corps and then they used contractors?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.241622288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you you've worked a staff for a while in in Afghanistan. And then did you get home or what have you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That that all that set me on my lifetime work? If before I had a tendency towards that set and I came back work in the Peace Corps as a regional training officer, training volunteers for all over the Middle East and spent a lot of time traveling in Northern Africa and other places. Then when they closed the Peace Corps training office is when I joined the Center for Research and Education and began training volunteers through the Center for Research and Education trained thousands and thousands and some of the"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically it was just outsourced. The training needs to be done by Peace Corps and then they used contractors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they use, with the exception of Puerto Rico, I believe they use contractors everywhere from the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you said you were in the training office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.456272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So well, the training office when it existed was to supervise the contract trainers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we did the training for some of the vaccinators who went to Afghanistan. And we put them in the Four Corners area of New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Colorado on reservations on Native American land. And they went around doing health work with those groups. And that was good training for them. There was it's hard to find rougher country than Afghanistan, but that comes close so that I did for a number of years, went back and got a degree in international education from University of Massachusetts, worked with Bob Steiner for a while with this language program. But Snyder was the Peace Corps director that I knew when I first met, when I went to Afghanistan as a volunteer. So we started a company and this company did training, language training. And then I decided it would make sense for me to resume my work in the cross-cultural field. And because I'd done all the early cultural work in the Peace Corps and I knew that American businesses needed the same, a similar kind of training for them to be able to effectively work and market in other countries. And somehow that worked. That company that I set up in 1986 when I tap in Princeton, New Jersey, exists now to this day after having worked with all kinds of the larger companies, I worked for JMJ for 25 years as a consultant and and that in a way that got me into developing an application in which you could look at your own cultural proclivities and compare them with cultural dimensions of people from all over the world and therefore get a head start on knowing what the likely differences and similarities were that you had with other people from other cultures. And that was that was a application that we just sold to a group in Singapore. And then I also started developing something called a global team process questionnaire, which came out of my experience working in the Peace Corps and other places and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Global team"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Processes questionnaire. And that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was never I never taught in this country in a public school, but I taught hundreds, maybe thousands of American executives of the importance of understanding the culture of the, of the place they are going to and also international executives coming to the U.S., but there's the strange American story, how we would welcome them with open arms for three days and then forget them, expect them to sink or swim. It's a wonderful story. Yeah. And and, of course, I have to train a lot of Peace Corps volunteers. So I think there was a dispersion of that third goal into American corporate life. I mean, the old days, we were the ugly Americans, I guess more so than ever now, but within a different way. And and I think I think a lot of folks learned from that, from using the tools that we developed, like the application. I mean, most Americans didn't know they have the camera cultures with them. They have no idea what it is. And but when you show them these five or six cultural dimensions, they begin to say, oh, what do you mean, you could do it differently? Or, you know, we believe in a kind of equality, but in other places they may not or may have a different sense of what's equal, so on, so forth. So I think I hope I spread a few seeds, but the big angry ocean and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, everybody just does what they can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody does what they can. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Any other any other stories you'd like to tell that I didn't, that my questions didn't trigger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think you I think we've"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Covered the territory?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00070:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody does what they can. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Any other any other stories you'd like to tell that I didn't, that my questions didn't trigger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think you I think we've"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Covered the territory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've bored future generations to death."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't think so. I thought it was very insightful. So thank you so much for the interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00690:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.664447256629906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We pretty much used a cookie cutter during the second competition, namely the same approach from the first. We used basically the same team, and we actually streamlined it a little bit. Fewer people, but we pretty much the same process. It worked really well. In fact we did it in record time. If you look at the Announcement of COTS 2, it was very similar to COTS 1. We were really pleased with how well the first round went. By keeping the same people, including Alan Marty, we were able to execute the second round of competition really quickly.\\n\\n In both COTS rounds, since we weren’t under the FAR, the Federal Acquisition Regulation, we could pick and choose what elements of a traditional procurement we wanted to have. We chose to go into a bunker, we chose to follow certain Source [Evaluation] Board-like procedures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other thing that we understand you worked on—NASA also had partnerships with other companies through unfunded Space Act Agreements. Can you talk a little bit about your involvement with those aspects of the COTS program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I negotiated all the unfunded Space Act Agreements that we had. There were five partners, most of which had competed for the funded round. They wanted to stay in the game using their own money, and have some technical interchange with us. They still had milestones, they still were developing a launch vehicle, but they didn’t have our money.\\n\\n They knew that coming out of the COTS program there’d be a separate competition under the FAR for CRS. They wanted to compete in that. In fact one did quite well in that competition it turned out. They didn’t win, but they came very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the process for selecting them similar to the funded agreements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To become an unfunded partner, a company must have been developing a capability to carry cargo to low-Earth orbit. We knew all the companies and all were players in the ecosystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any limit to the number of companies NASA could work with under that unfunded agreement?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00690:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.40494139625545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I negotiated all the unfunded Space Act Agreements that we had. There were five partners, most of which had competed for the funded round. They wanted to stay in the game using their own money, and have some technical interchange with us. They still had milestones, they still were developing a launch vehicle, but they didn’t have our money.\\n\\n They knew that coming out of the COTS program there’d be a separate competition under the FAR for CRS. They wanted to compete in that. In fact one did quite well in that competition it turned out. They didn’t win, but they came very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the process for selecting them similar to the funded agreements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To become an unfunded partner, a company must have been developing a capability to carry cargo to low-Earth orbit. We knew all the companies and all were players in the ecosystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any limit to the number of companies NASA could work with under that unfunded agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our help was limited by the technical resources that we had. They were each assigned to a project executive, so somebody was responsible for interfacing with each unfunded partner. Somebody answered the phone if they called and arranged for help. But if the help they needed was too extensive, noting that the funded partners had priority, then we placed limits to how much we free help we could give them. But I don’t recall it ever getting out of hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the help primarily in the form of phone calls, asking technical questions? Or were there a lot of onsite visits to those companies, or their representatives coming here to help them develop their vehicles?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00690:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.338823773617165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To become an unfunded partner, a company must have been developing a capability to carry cargo to low-Earth orbit. We knew all the companies and all were players in the ecosystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any limit to the number of companies NASA could work with under that unfunded agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our help was limited by the technical resources that we had. They were each assigned to a project executive, so somebody was responsible for interfacing with each unfunded partner. Somebody answered the phone if they called and arranged for help. But if the help they needed was too extensive, noting that the funded partners had priority, then we placed limits to how much we free help we could give them. But I don’t recall it ever getting out of hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the help primarily in the form of phone calls, asking technical questions? Or were there a lot of onsite visits to those companies, or their representatives coming here to help them develop their vehicles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I negotiated these agreements and got them approved. Then they were turned over to Mike [Michael J. Horkachuck] and Bruce [A. Manners] to manage. You might want to ask them how they went, but they were generally much lower key than the funded ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any role in writing the Space Act Agreements? Were the agreements similar to the funded ones, or just a loose collaboration?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00690:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.48758197068574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our help was limited by the technical resources that we had. They were each assigned to a project executive, so somebody was responsible for interfacing with each unfunded partner. Somebody answered the phone if they called and arranged for help. But if the help they needed was too extensive, noting that the funded partners had priority, then we placed limits to how much we free help we could give them. But I don’t recall it ever getting out of hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the help primarily in the form of phone calls, asking technical questions? Or were there a lot of onsite visits to those companies, or their representatives coming here to help them develop their vehicles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I negotiated these agreements and got them approved. Then they were turned over to Mike [Michael J. Horkachuck] and Bruce [A. Manners] to manage. You might want to ask them how they went, but they were generally much lower key than the funded ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any role in writing the Space Act Agreements? Were the agreements similar to the funded ones, or just a loose collaboration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were patterned, if I recall, a lot on the funded ones. Since we weren’t putting money in, there were a lot of clauses that didn’t apply. We also used Space Act Agreement Maker, or SAAM, which is a tool that the Center has to get boilerplate language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other aspect of your work in the COTS program has been working with support contractors like Booz Allen Hamilton [Inc.] to help evaluate some of the companies’ milestones. Can you talk a little bit about working with them and what their role was in supporting COTS?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00690:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.474890000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. A year and a half had expired. Markets change, particularly financial markets. Technologies change. So we decided to put out a new Announcement. Some companies sent a similar proposal as they sent before, while others changed theirs. We also had some completely new participants. We believe that this was the most fair approach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the questions that the companies asked you during these rounds of evaluations? Maybe were there some questions they asked that surprised you? Or were you pretty much prepared for whatever they were asking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were doing the asking. I wouldn’t say we wouldn’t allow questions, but they were under the spotlight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m just curious if they asked how much oversight you were going to have, in the sense of if you saw them getting overwhelmed or they were struggling to meet their milestones, there might have been suggestions or recommendations from NASA. Were they very receptive of the help that you were offering? Or did they want to be given the time to figure this out on their own because it’s their product and their company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We seldom initiated help; we generally waited for them to ask. During major design reviews, when you write a comment on a design, a formal comment to be dispositioned by a board, in essence that’s help too. It says, “We don’t think your design is going to work,” or, “It doesn’t meet a requirement.” That’s help.\\n\\n We had insight, not oversight. Even though we were small, each of the project executives had a deputy. They would go to many partner meetings and reviews and were generally welcome to sit in. We would get a lot of insight that way. If we saw a problem coming and we thought we had some advice, I doubt we would just hide it. Bruce and Mike could give you a better handle on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were helping to put the concepts in place originally—do you feel, as you’ve come through these last six years, that you truly were partners in this effort? Or did you find that NASA was in somewhat of a traditional role of overseer and provider of funds?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.66042297772287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I recall that I, I had an interest in reading, in books quite a bit. As a kid I think I had wide ranging interests. I liked, I liked science fiction. I liked history. That was not the major thing at that point, but I liked stories about people. I remember reading about sort of fictional stories about children in China Town at that point, and that, that kind of was fascinating to me how people who grew up in a different culture. Different traditions, creating different mindsets, and how they thought differently, and so I was intrigued by that. But I was also, I also grew up, I think, through high school thinking that I was going to go into science. I was very interested in biology and zoology, and maybe underwater sea, oceanography, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What informed that, would you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Science was intriguing, and it was kind of dynamic. Maybe I had some really good science teachers in junior high and high school that I recall who inspired us. I think biology, going through junior college, is where I thought I was going to go, to study biology. But I think I didn’t do that well in some of the practical exams, where they stick pins in creatures all around the room, and you have to identify the organs. I don’t think I did too well in that, so I kind of fell back to history. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But those Cousteau films are fantastic, aren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. I’m fascinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, one can approach them historically. That’s the beauty of history, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.0671366419143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Science was intriguing, and it was kind of dynamic. Maybe I had some really good science teachers in junior high and high school that I recall who inspired us. I think biology, going through junior college, is where I thought I was going to go, to study biology. But I think I didn’t do that well in some of the practical exams, where they stick pins in creatures all around the room, and you have to identify the organs. I don’t think I did too well in that, so I kind of fell back to history. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But those Cousteau films are fantastic, aren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. I’m fascinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, one can approach them historically. That’s the beauty of history, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it touches everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you went to high school in San Francisco?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.74126293546033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. I’m fascinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, one can approach them historically. That’s the beauty of history, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it touches everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you went to high school in San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.379181039400365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it touches everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you went to high school in San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lowell High School. I was fortunate to get into that school because it was a college prep school. You had to have a pretty good GPA to get in. I guess it was not highly selective, but it was a notch above the other high schools, in that the teachers had a better class of students to work with, better prepared, and they could teach to them, and give them more challenging stuff, and more activities. I think that school is still in existence, and has been around since the 1890s or early 1900s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you made the decision then to attend San Francisco State, and this must have been in the 1970s?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.97686782155596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lowell High School. I was fortunate to get into that school because it was a college prep school. You had to have a pretty good GPA to get in. I guess it was not highly selective, but it was a notch above the other high schools, in that the teachers had a better class of students to work with, better prepared, and they could teach to them, and give them more challenging stuff, and more activities. I think that school is still in existence, and has been around since the 1890s or early 1900s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you made the decision then to attend San Francisco State, and this must have been in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around ‘68. I actually went to City College of San Francisco, which is a two year school, and then transferred to San Francisco State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk about a little bit about the milieu, and your involvement with it in San Francisco in 1968?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.86318646839551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lowell High School. I was fortunate to get into that school because it was a college prep school. You had to have a pretty good GPA to get in. I guess it was not highly selective, but it was a notch above the other high schools, in that the teachers had a better class of students to work with, better prepared, and they could teach to them, and give them more challenging stuff, and more activities. I think that school is still in existence, and has been around since the 1890s or early 1900s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you made the decision then to attend San Francisco State, and this must have been in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around ‘68. I actually went to City College of San Francisco, which is a two year school, and then transferred to San Francisco State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk about a little bit about the milieu, and your involvement with it in San Francisco in 1968?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how can we not talk a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.847984964883903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around ‘68. I actually went to City College of San Francisco, which is a two year school, and then transferred to San Francisco State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk about a little bit about the milieu, and your involvement with it in San Francisco in 1968?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how can we not talk a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think about that sometimes. I was pretty young, and the whole counterculture movement was coming along, and overwhelming everybody. I remember visiting the Haight-Ashbury, and just a lot of colorful people in costumes, and it was a real cultural revolution, and just the excitement and music and ideas. You couldn’t really go down the Haight very easily. There were thousands of tourists, and they had to reroute the bus lines along that street because the buses couldn’t navigate. There were just a lot of people gawking. So it was an exciting time. I didn’t get involved that heavily in the counterculture. I was surely influenced by it, in terms of thinking, and ideas, and the anti- war movement eventually, and the literature. I had friends whose parents were distraught because a couple of those friends sort of disappeared into that culture, and who knows what happened to them. But it was fascinating. But also the city, of course, has a real innovative and liberal spirit about it. People are very open and creative in every way, and I think I was always attracted to that. In San Francisco State, we had classes that were devoted to the literature of the counterculture movement. The new poetry, the new novels. So they tried to adapt to that, and dig into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enter Junior College or San Francisco State knowing that you were going to do history specifically, or you talk about literature a lot, so did you have a wider focus in the humanities? What were your intellectual kind of attractions?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.248264698057476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I started junior college, at City College of San Francisco, I was most attracted to biology. But I did really enjoy my literature classes. I had several interests. I can recall we had some good instructors at that junior college, who really excited us about literature, and about science. But also I can recall anthropology. That was a real eye-opener for me because the premise of anthropology is that you become immersed in another culture. We had a teacher named Mr. Manlove, of all things, Manlove symbolizing loving mankind. Anyway, he did his research in the Philippines with a primitive tribe. That was very fascinating to me. So, while I was loving science and such things as organic chemistry and biology, and advanced calculus—I mean that was fascinating to me—I wasn’t the best, but it fascinated me. I was also fascinated by the softer sciences, I guess you could say, like anthropology. And literature, just studying, we read case studies, studies of the Cheyenne Indians, who were people who went and lived with tribes and studied their culture, their language, their traditions. So, I think I was a real student in that I was fascinated by it all. That’s what college is about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You transferred to San Francisco State, and what was your degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually at San Francisco State I had a B.A. in History."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific topic for your thesis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no thesis at the B.A. level, but it was American History pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alright, so you land at…early 1970s, you graduated from college. What did you do after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 36.94251633117497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually at San Francisco State I had a B.A. in History."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific topic for your thesis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no thesis at the B.A. level, but it was American History pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alright, so you land at…early 1970s, you graduated from college. What did you do after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually stayed at San Francisco State and got a teaching credential. I wanted to teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a common thread throughout many of the people I’ve spoken to."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 36.602795923527744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no thesis at the B.A. level, but it was American History pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alright, so you land at…early 1970s, you graduated from college. What did you do after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually stayed at San Francisco State and got a teaching credential. I wanted to teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a common thread throughout many of the people I’ve spoken to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]. Yeah. Well, that’s what I thought I wanted to do, teach high school or junior high, something like that, so I got a California teaching credential. Didn’t have any luck at that point. I did land a job at a boys’ home about 60 miles north of San Francisco, and I actually lived in the home. I was the teacher. These kids were wards of the court and they lived there. We had about six counselors who helped with all the other duties. I had a little schoolhouse on the premises, which was pretty rough because some of these kids were emotionally disturbed, and they were all ages from 10 through 18, all in the same room. I had to devise all kinds of lesson plans for them. It was quite a scene, but you do the best you can. Some of these kids were eventually farmed out, or placed in Special Ed courses in public schools. But it was good experience. I did that for about two to three years. And then I worked in the private sector, in miscellaneous jobs. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. Sales jobs, things like that. Then, I decided I had to really follow what I wanted to do and I reapplied to the M.A. program at State in History."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that would have been the mid-‘70s by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.44755102614194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually stayed at San Francisco State and got a teaching credential. I wanted to teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a common thread throughout many of the people I’ve spoken to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]. Yeah. Well, that’s what I thought I wanted to do, teach high school or junior high, something like that, so I got a California teaching credential. Didn’t have any luck at that point. I did land a job at a boys’ home about 60 miles north of San Francisco, and I actually lived in the home. I was the teacher. These kids were wards of the court and they lived there. We had about six counselors who helped with all the other duties. I had a little schoolhouse on the premises, which was pretty rough because some of these kids were emotionally disturbed, and they were all ages from 10 through 18, all in the same room. I had to devise all kinds of lesson plans for them. It was quite a scene, but you do the best you can. Some of these kids were eventually farmed out, or placed in Special Ed courses in public schools. But it was good experience. I did that for about two to three years. And then I worked in the private sector, in miscellaneous jobs. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. Sales jobs, things like that. Then, I decided I had to really follow what I wanted to do and I reapplied to the M.A. program at State in History."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that would have been the mid-‘70s by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a gap in time where I was working at private businesses at that point, about 1984 or so when I applied for the M.A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was different at that point, going back to the Master’s degree at State?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.24238841218067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about that. I just thought this was a very tumultuous time, and I was, I was very sympathetic but a little bit on the hesitant side, like, like some people, I guess, I was concerned about the, to what degree I would get involved. I was concerned about my safety. I didn’t want to get hurt. So I was involved but not in an extreme way. I remember, of course at that point, just before that it was People’s Park Movement thing at Berkley just across the Bay and Mario Savio was the leader of that and I remember reading a lot about him, and he, he in the subsequent years came to San Francisco State and as a student in science, I believe. So we were, we were reading about these things, we were following it, and we were, it was very divisive. But I think we were living in the present pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so, so, sorry, you’re back. It’s 1984 or so and you’re in the Master’s program. You wrote a, did you write a thesis for your Master’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no [phonetic]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or, or do you have a particular, again, sorry, you said it was social, cultural history."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 51.38043156908963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about that. I just thought this was a very tumultuous time, and I was, I was very sympathetic but a little bit on the hesitant side, like, like some people, I guess, I was concerned about the, to what degree I would get involved. I was concerned about my safety. I didn’t want to get hurt. So I was involved but not in an extreme way. I remember, of course at that point, just before that it was People’s Park Movement thing at Berkley just across the Bay and Mario Savio was the leader of that and I remember reading a lot about him, and he, he in the subsequent years came to San Francisco State and as a student in science, I believe. So we were, we were reading about these things, we were following it, and we were, it was very divisive. But I think we were living in the present pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so, so, sorry, you’re back. It’s 1984 or so and you’re in the Master’s program. You wrote a, did you write a thesis for your Master’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no [phonetic]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or, or do you have a particular, again, sorry, you said it was social, cultural history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you decide you wanted to go to Maryland, and specifically to study what?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 51.53381285454403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no [phonetic]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or, or do you have a particular, again, sorry, you said it was social, cultural history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you decide you wanted to go to Maryland, and specifically to study what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got the M.A. at State, and at that point, I think I decided that I wanted to teach college, and to have a better rate of success, you need to get a doctorate. So, it was a question at that point, my fellow students at the M.A. program said, “No, this is it, I can’t undertake the doctoral program because you’re going to face about seven years of study and probably poverty as well. I had a family, I already had my oldest son at that point, a wife and son, when I graduated with my M.A. in 1987. When talking with fellow grad students, I was one of the few, I think, who wanted to go on. I applied to UCLA and to Maryland. We came to Maryland for a couple reasons. My wife’s parents were here, and that could be some support. Also, Maryland had a very strong Colonial America, American, Early American program, and that was my major interest at that point. It was very good, very strong, with some good people, and that’s why we came here—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that there was an intermittent program where you’d work. Where did you work? This would’ve been around the time of the building of Archives II?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 48.37090317171559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you decide you wanted to go to Maryland, and specifically to study what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got the M.A. at State, and at that point, I think I decided that I wanted to teach college, and to have a better rate of success, you need to get a doctorate. So, it was a question at that point, my fellow students at the M.A. program said, “No, this is it, I can’t undertake the doctoral program because you’re going to face about seven years of study and probably poverty as well. I had a family, I already had my oldest son at that point, a wife and son, when I graduated with my M.A. in 1987. When talking with fellow grad students, I was one of the few, I think, who wanted to go on. I applied to UCLA and to Maryland. We came to Maryland for a couple reasons. My wife’s parents were here, and that could be some support. Also, Maryland had a very strong Colonial America, American, Early American program, and that was my major interest at that point. It was very good, very strong, with some good people, and that’s why we came here—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that there was an intermittent program where you’d work. Where did you work? This would’ve been around the time of the building of Archives II?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Earlier. Earlier. I don’t have the exact year in my mind, at the beginning. I think it was probably in the late 90s, mid-90s. I started at the National Archives Building in Washington, D.C. about 1991, as an intermittent, maybe my third or fourth year at Maryland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you undertake as an intermittent?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.07949867350096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it came later. I can’t give you an exact date. I would say it was probably in the early 2000s. It started with only a few computers, and they might have the information on a CD, so you would check out that CD, go over to a computer and put it in. They didn’t have the information programmed in the computer or hardwired to an outside mainframe or something, that way at the beginning. You would have to check out the CD. But I think it gradually built up, and even today it’s not entirely computerized. The Microfilm Research Room has shrunken quite a bit. It’s in a different location, but they still have the films, and some of the things you’d do, you would use ancestry.com and fold3.com. Those were the two private firms that have digitized, scanned a lot of microfilm. You can use those resources free at the Archives if you come in. I think that’s true of any Archives or regional facility, whereas if you’re at home, you have to subscribe. It’s a great resource. I think computerization took a little longer to hit the Research Room. I should say another thing that really revolutionized genealogy, and a lot of people have talked about this, is the phenomena of the TV program Roots. Before that, not as many people were doing genealogy. Roots was such a big thing, especially for African-American genealogy, that we had thousands and thousands more people coming to the Archives nationwide to do their family research. It was a big turning point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was when?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it must have been in the late ‘70s. I can’t give you the exact date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So throughout the 1990s, you were in the Microfilm Room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until about 1995. Then, I applied for a permanent job with the General Unit, where I stayed from about 1995 to 2015."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got your dissertation in 1995, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 36.754998526112175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it must have been in the late ‘70s. I can’t give you the exact date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So throughout the 1990s, you were in the Microfilm Room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until about 1995. Then, I applied for a permanent job with the General Unit, where I stayed from about 1995 to 2015."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got your dissertation in 1995, is that right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, end of 1994."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must’ve made the decision that you were not going to teach, you wanted to stay at the Archives, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00005:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.866176689699998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. An earlier one was NWCD. NW was Records Management, so we were, in a sense, part of the whole Records, Holding and Records Branch, which was an odd fit for an editorial and publishing unit. But we published a lot of their books and things. So it was NWCD, and I’ve forgotten some of the other ones, but the last was SCP, part of Communications, which was probably a better fit in some ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Communications exist before, for public outreach and to promote the Archives and its mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think in the late 1990s, early 2000s, there was a unit called NPOL, N Policy, under the Archivist. They did things like the all-out Archives communication, they formulated the Archives Strategic Plan, things like that. So, in a reorganization, the administrators move the units around to however they feel the units can best serve their respective purpose, or their mission has changed, their concept of what the Archives should be doing, I assume."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with…I guess you’d been working with Jim [Worsham] for a while. Was there anybody else that you worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well Jim, I don’t know the exact year, I think he came along in 2004, something like that. Before that, Mary Ryan was the Managing Editor. It was Mary, myself, and another writer-editor named Maureen MacDonald, and a previous woman who had resigned, or she’d left about 1996, 1997. So it was Mary and a couple of us producing Prologue until about 2004. Then, the administration decided they wanted to upgrade Prologue, and they brought in Jim as the overall editor. Then, the magazine was redesigned somewhat, and the content was changed. I remember originally, before the change, it was a documented journal, heavily footnoted. They did away with that, so at the end of the articles you would have a note that in a very general sense talked about the sources that were used. A more popular format."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it may have been a shift in targeted audience, from generally historians to the wider public?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.057148312284557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Arlene A. Brown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. State your affiliation to the Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am a volunteer and have been for almost 25 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit about what you did before you started volunteering at the Archives that kind of led to you ending up here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I retired from the federal government in 1988 and my last position was the Deputy Director of Contract Pricing at Headquarters NASA. Before that, I worked as a civilian in Air Force procurement, both here in Washington and for about 15 years before that at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So those positions don't seem at all related to Archives."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.17460923587173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am a volunteer and have been for almost 25 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit about what you did before you started volunteering at the Archives that kind of led to you ending up here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I retired from the federal government in 1988 and my last position was the Deputy Director of Contract Pricing at Headquarters NASA. Before that, I worked as a civilian in Air Force procurement, both here in Washington and for about 15 years before that at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So those positions don't seem at all related to Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to come here and start doing volunteer work here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.1940102620797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I retired from the federal government in 1988 and my last position was the Deputy Director of Contract Pricing at Headquarters NASA. Before that, I worked as a civilian in Air Force procurement, both here in Washington and for about 15 years before that at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So those positions don't seem at all related to Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to come here and start doing volunteer work here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to begin with, my major in college was political science with a minor in economics, so I was definitely interested in government and history even before this. When I retired, I was widowed and after a couple of years, I began to look for something to do. And as far as I remember, I think I contacted the Archives. I also contacted the Smithsonian’s Museum of American History and the reason I ended up volunteering here and not at the Smithsonian is their training class did not begin until January and ours here at the Archives began in October. So basically, because I liked the earlier, once I had made up my mind I wanted to do something, I chose the Archives because the training was faster and earlier. [LAUGHTER]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.882233624533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to come here and start doing volunteer work here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to begin with, my major in college was political science with a minor in economics, so I was definitely interested in government and history even before this. When I retired, I was widowed and after a couple of years, I began to look for something to do. And as far as I remember, I think I contacted the Archives. I also contacted the Smithsonian’s Museum of American History and the reason I ended up volunteering here and not at the Smithsonian is their training class did not begin until January and ours here at the Archives began in October. So basically, because I liked the earlier, once I had made up my mind I wanted to do something, I chose the Archives because the training was faster and earlier. [LAUGHTER]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, I don't know what it would be today, but we spent five weeks, five hours a day on I believe every Tuesday and Thursday. I'm trying to remember, but I believe that was ten hours a week for five weeks. Specifically I was training as a docent. Interestingly, the man I married I met in training, although it was docent training, he has never done that volunteer duty as far as I know, but he was in that training class and it was directed at those of us who were interested in becoming docents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of things did you learn in the docent class to prepare you for being a docent?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.834339677000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I think I learned a little bit of history that I might not have known before, but we concentrated on the organization and administration of the National Archives, as I recall, plus a couple of human interest stories, believe it or not, that would help us keep the tourists interested and happy. So I think those were the principal things, at least I remember. It's a long time ago. I know you're supposed to remember in old age those things that happened a long time ago and forget what happened yesterday, but I find it works just the opposite. So the volunteer coordinator at the time led those classes. Her name was Pat Eames, a wonderful woman, very, very knowledgeable and a great teacher. So that's what I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you remember what kind of human interest stories they told you at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I remember, and I cannot think of his name, but there was a gentleman who was the first Black doctor in one of the military services, I hope it was the army. I think it was the army, and his adventures. He was a very interesting man and I believe it was mainly in Civil War times and I found it [CHUCKLES] I don't remember all the details, but I remember thinking it was very, very interesting and that would be one example of sort of having a story up your sleeve to share with tourists if you, as I did, eventually become a docent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they give you this example because they had documents from this person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did have documents. I remember another thing. They distributed, of course, copies, but the police reports from April of 1865 detailing from the police's viewpoint the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and I thought that was sort of exciting. I really was not that familiar with what was in the National Archives at the time, and so I found jeez, something like a police report from April of 1865, I found very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as a docent, do you remember how things worked when you first started being a docent?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh golly. Oh golly. Well, just today, I had two young men from Taiwan plus a couple and their grandchild from Alaska, believe it or not. And the mother, the woman from Alaska at one point said to me, \"Oh, I'm so glad we had the tour. I'm learning so much more than if I had just walked it myself.\" And that makes you feel good. It makes me feel very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the best part is being able to get the feedback from the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, and giving, I think. As I say, I am now remarried, but as sure, when I was living alone, it was nice to come to the Archives and meet people every week, and that's what I'm basically doing. And since I'm so excited and enthused about American history, to sort of pass on, if I can, that enthusiasm. Maybe I, who knows, go overboard, but I enjoy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So as a docent, you deal pretty much always with the public."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's pretty much what I have done. Now, when you talk to my husband, as a staff aide, and I think that's more Gene, more my husband, quiet and he can go off in the stacks and be so happy just researching. But I have always, for 25 years, been a docent and I think my two basic joys are really meeting the people and at least hopefully inspiring them, if that's a good word, and getting their enthusiasm up about American history, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you see that museum as an important part of the Archives because it informs people."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, and giving, I think. As I say, I am now remarried, but as sure, when I was living alone, it was nice to come to the Archives and meet people every week, and that's what I'm basically doing. And since I'm so excited and enthused about American history, to sort of pass on, if I can, that enthusiasm. Maybe I, who knows, go overboard, but I enjoy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So as a docent, you deal pretty much always with the public."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's pretty much what I have done. Now, when you talk to my husband, as a staff aide, and I think that's more Gene, more my husband, quiet and he can go off in the stacks and be so happy just researching. But I have always, for 25 years, been a docent and I think my two basic joys are really meeting the people and at least hopefully inspiring them, if that's a good word, and getting their enthusiasm up about American history, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you see that museum as an important part of the Archives because it informs people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I don't know. When we think about it there, really, when I started, I think we probably have tripled the number, if not more, the numbers of people who now visit as a tourist spot the National Archives because of the new exhibits and in fact, many people just come by themselves. I know you can spend hours just going. Usually, almost everything is well-discussed and you don't really need a guided tour to enjoy what's available now. And compared to what we had before, so much depended, I think, on the docent before to make it interesting and educational and fun. Now it's not so much the docent, although I'd like to think so [LAUGHS], that makes it an interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you'd like to say about your time here that we haven't gone over?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00003:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I don't know. When we think about it there, really, when I started, I think we probably have tripled the number, if not more, the numbers of people who now visit as a tourist spot the National Archives because of the new exhibits and in fact, many people just come by themselves. I know you can spend hours just going. Usually, almost everything is well-discussed and you don't really need a guided tour to enjoy what's available now. And compared to what we had before, so much depended, I think, on the docent before to make it interesting and educational and fun. Now it's not so much the docent, although I'd like to think so [LAUGHS], that makes it an interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you'd like to say about your time here that we haven't gone over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I'm very happy, enjoyed it and I was just thinking today I met the new volunteer coordinator. I've been around so long, she is my third volunteer coordinator and I think the one before her was here at least a decade. And as I said, the woman originally here, Pat Eames, spelled, by the way, E-A-M-E-S, like the Eames chair. I think her husband was a journalist and she wrote some interesting books, but I really enjoyed it. I would miss it and I think, to be honest, I hope you're able to catch it from him. My husband is even more enthusiastic. He has had the fortune of researching some very interesting things and maybe he'll tell you about it, but I don't have anything else to say, but I obviously must enjoy it or I wouldn't be here all these years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, thank you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that will be the end of the interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 42.265991930683455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what we built it for. We built each one of those vehicles to fly 100 times. We knew it would probably fly four times that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were anticipating each Orbiter would fly between 400 and 500 times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We said we will design the machine to fly 100 times, then you need to recertify it. Take it apart. Now we also decided you need to take it apart after eight flights, look at certain level structure that you could see, etc. Then at the end of 100 flights we’d have to make some kind of new decision as to its capability and validity to fly, but I think probably because the way we did things in the system, it would probably fly 400 times. I can’t remember how I would convince you of that, but we did that in a probabilistic study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty amazing. I’ve heard some people from the Shuttle Program recently say that there was some discussion about recertifying the vehicles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a requirement of the [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-107] Accident Review Board. That’s a rational thing to talk about, that’s what they probably should do. They would find that you can. That’s recertifying it. Now I think that would probably be the right thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Last time you had told us some wonderful anecdotes about the thermal protection system. I was curious if you could talk to us about some of the other systems or structure of the Orbiter. Things like the wing, the midfuselage, or other systems or subsystems that you had your hands in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.2229518910334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren’t, thank God. That’s all we needed was another oar in the water. They were involved in the requirements, initially. We met with them all the way up to the Chief of Staff. We met with them when they were building the launch facilities out in California. If the Air Force was going to use it, they wanted to launch both from the Cape and Vandenberg [Air Force Base, California], so they were building what they called SLC6, Space Launch Complex 6, out in Vandenberg. Bob had people that were interfaced with the Air Force to build that facility. They built it, and then we never used it. A lot of money wasted there. They built a runway, launch tower, pad, rails to get it out there, and finished it, so we did have some meetings with them. That was with the Chief of Staff of the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the ALT flights. You had mentioned a few things already, but how did Johnson prepare for those flights? Obviously they were out at Edwards but there was some control in Mission Control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn’t have any control over here. They just monitored what was going on from a voice communication point of view and whatever telemetry we had coming down from it was also piped in here, but the operation was really run out of Edwards, just like the X-15 was. We used their control center, and their people were responsible for conducting the flight. Had a lot of arguments with Dave [David R.] Scott when he was out there. He wanted to be in charge. I said, “No, I’m in charge. You don’t like it, get out of here.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was his reaction to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he took it to people above me, and they said, “Kraft is in charge.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for any of the flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.358835434481556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn’t have any control over here. They just monitored what was going on from a voice communication point of view and whatever telemetry we had coming down from it was also piped in here, but the operation was really run out of Edwards, just like the X-15 was. We used their control center, and their people were responsible for conducting the flight. Had a lot of arguments with Dave [David R.] Scott when he was out there. He wanted to be in charge. I said, “No, I’m in charge. You don’t like it, get out of here.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was his reaction to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he took it to people above me, and they said, “Kraft is in charge.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for any of the flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was out there for all of them. I say that, maybe I wasn’t out there for the first one. I was out there with Fred Haise when Fred Haise made that landing, because I was standing there with Prince Charles [Prince of Wales]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you really?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.620928260535063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he took it to people above me, and they said, “Kraft is in charge.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for any of the flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was out there for all of them. I say that, maybe I wasn’t out there for the first one. I was out there with Fred Haise when Fred Haise made that landing, because I was standing there with Prince Charles [Prince of Wales]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He had been here several days before. He’s a pilot, as you probably know. We put him in the trainer. He did what Fred Haise did, overcontrolled. He got a big bang out of that, because he could see it happening like I could. You didn’t have to tell me he was having trouble, because I could see that. I’ve been in that business a long time. I knew that he was having trouble and so did the Prince. He was laughing about it. “Oh, he’s having the same trouble that I had,” he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you learn from the tests?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.134364733927846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was out there for all of them. I say that, maybe I wasn’t out there for the first one. I was out there with Fred Haise when Fred Haise made that landing, because I was standing there with Prince Charles [Prince of Wales]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He had been here several days before. He’s a pilot, as you probably know. We put him in the trainer. He did what Fred Haise did, overcontrolled. He got a big bang out of that, because he could see it happening like I could. You didn’t have to tell me he was having trouble, because I could see that. I’ve been in that business a long time. I knew that he was having trouble and so did the Prince. He was laughing about it. “Oh, he’s having the same trouble that I had,” he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you learn from the tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That you could do it. I don’t think there was any question we could do it, but it proved that we could do it. From a public affairs point of view, that was important. Prove that we could land it free fall, and that you could do it dead-stick, i.e., no power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to make any modifications as a result of the tests?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 27.927071926586496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He had been here several days before. He’s a pilot, as you probably know. We put him in the trainer. He did what Fred Haise did, overcontrolled. He got a big bang out of that, because he could see it happening like I could. You didn’t have to tell me he was having trouble, because I could see that. I’ve been in that business a long time. I knew that he was having trouble and so did the Prince. He was laughing about it. “Oh, he’s having the same trouble that I had,” he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you learn from the tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That you could do it. I don’t think there was any question we could do it, but it proved that we could do it. From a public affairs point of view, that was important. Prove that we could land it free fall, and that you could do it dead-stick, i.e., no power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to make any modifications as a result of the tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We’d already made those modifications I talked to you about relative to the control system. I don’t know why we did it that way in the first place. I’m sure there was some reason, but we had probably run it enough in the trainers to know that that was a pilot trap. We had modified it, so we knew they might have trouble with that. Shouldn’t have, but that’s one of those things, if you put it there you’re apt to get in trouble with it. You shouldn’t try to overcome those things with pilot skill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the first class of Shuttle astronauts that came in in ’78. What role did you play in selecting this new group of 35 astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.014436711761157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what I thought the government wanted to do. That was my responsibility as a government agent to do that. It was. The government really told me—I don’t know who I would say that was, but I guess my bosses, who were Alan [M.] Lovelace and Bob Frosch, and their adviser, among others, was Jenkins. They told me, “Look, we want women, and we want some Black people here, and that’s what the government wants. We want to be an equal opportunity employer.” Frankly, I had no trouble whatsoever with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they happy with your list?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Damn happy. I’m happy with the people we got, too. All three of the Black men were fine people in my mind. I thought they were well qualified. I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t think they were well qualified, but I thought all the women and the Black men that we picked were well qualified for the job. It turned out they were. After we got them here they were as good as anybody we’d ever had here.\\n\\n Now they—like the scientist astronauts we’d previously chosen—some of them couldn’t fly, so we taught them to fly. The category we put them in, they did not have to be pilots, but they had to fly. They had to travel in T-38s. They had to be trained in emergency procedures in flying in T-38s. Abbey was the head of Flight Crew, and he chose the crews that were going to fly, and I approved them. I turned some of them around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that decision to fly the first American woman Sally [K.] Ride, and then Guy [Guion S.] Bluford."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.301773718223647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he, with a number of astronauts, chose the first woman to fly. They brought that to me, and I said no. Not because I had anything particularly against her, but from what I knew personally their reasons for choosing that particular one were, in my mind, not quite valid, because I thought that there were particularly two others that I had observed personally that were equally qualified. The one they brought me, I really didn’t know as much as I knew about those two.\\n\\n Then he and two other astronauts lobbied me after that, but they went away, and put these other two women into the process so to speak, and came back and gave me the same one over again. On the basis of what Mr. Abbey said and what the two astronauts that were being used—[Robert L.] Crippen and somebody else—they lobbied the heck out of me for Sally Ride, so I said, “Well you guys know more about her than I do, and you’ve evaluated the situation. I trust your judgment.” That’s how I chose her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they like about Sally? What were they telling you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought her performance, particularly in the control of the arm [Remote Manipulator System], which she was going to be responsible for, was outstanding. They thought she was the best. For me to override that would have been difficult. As far as I was concerned, I’m sure she was qualified to be an astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In her interview she did mention to us after she was picked she had a meeting with you in your office, and she thought that your message was very reassuring to her. Can you tell us about that conversation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.359569017489513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the reason spaceflight costs so much, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think including women and minorities in the astronaut corps changed JSC or the astronaut corps in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s bound to have, but from a performance point of view, I don’t think so, no. No, I’ve never seen anything that would say that anybody that flew wasn’t as good as anybody else, particularly in the types of jobs that they have to do. They’re well trained. The training people, they’re the best in the world. The evidence is what they can do when they get up there. Have you ever been out to the swimming pool [Sonny Carter Training Facility Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory] and watched them do the training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s fantastic. They’re throwing that away, that’s craziness. The training that you have to go through to do the jobs, whether what sex you are or what color you are doesn’t matter. They’re all very very capable people, very competent, smart, and very well motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What involvement did you have in the designation of the payload specialist categories?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.06618779721057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s bound to have, but from a performance point of view, I don’t think so, no. No, I’ve never seen anything that would say that anybody that flew wasn’t as good as anybody else, particularly in the types of jobs that they have to do. They’re well trained. The training people, they’re the best in the world. The evidence is what they can do when they get up there. Have you ever been out to the swimming pool [Sonny Carter Training Facility Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory] and watched them do the training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s fantastic. They’re throwing that away, that’s craziness. The training that you have to go through to do the jobs, whether what sex you are or what color you are doesn’t matter. They’re all very very capable people, very competent, smart, and very well motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What involvement did you have in the designation of the payload specialist categories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. I really didn’t. At the level I was at when I was the Director I had nothing to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were more technical and institutional."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.62909755245619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s fantastic. They’re throwing that away, that’s craziness. The training that you have to go through to do the jobs, whether what sex you are or what color you are doesn’t matter. They’re all very very capable people, very competent, smart, and very well motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What involvement did you have in the designation of the payload specialist categories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. I really didn’t. At the level I was at when I was the Director I had nothing to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were more technical and institutional."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now when I became the Deputy Director—I have to be careful how I say this. I had little to do with the selection of the crews that were going to fly. That was all left to Deke [Donald K.] Slayton and Bob Gilruth. I frankly didn’t know how they did it.\\n\\n The first thing I did when I became the deputy was go into Dr. Gilruth’s office and say, “I don’t like it. I want that to be a more democratic process, and I want people who are going to interface with those crews to know before they are selected who they are, and have a voice in saying they don’t want them. I’d like to hear it.” He said do it, so after I became deputy director we had a board of people representing the various organizations that were going to interface with the crews. Deke had to present the names of the people that were going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a similar process you carried through for the first four Shuttle flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.476775058284655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. I really didn’t. At the level I was at when I was the Director I had nothing to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were more technical and institutional."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now when I became the Deputy Director—I have to be careful how I say this. I had little to do with the selection of the crews that were going to fly. That was all left to Deke [Donald K.] Slayton and Bob Gilruth. I frankly didn’t know how they did it.\\n\\n The first thing I did when I became the deputy was go into Dr. Gilruth’s office and say, “I don’t like it. I want that to be a more democratic process, and I want people who are going to interface with those crews to know before they are selected who they are, and have a voice in saying they don’t want them. I’d like to hear it.” He said do it, so after I became deputy director we had a board of people representing the various organizations that were going to interface with the crews. Deke had to present the names of the people that were going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a similar process you carried through for the first four Shuttle flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Had not known that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.418638953649616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now when I became the Deputy Director—I have to be careful how I say this. I had little to do with the selection of the crews that were going to fly. That was all left to Deke [Donald K.] Slayton and Bob Gilruth. I frankly didn’t know how they did it.\\n\\n The first thing I did when I became the deputy was go into Dr. Gilruth’s office and say, “I don’t like it. I want that to be a more democratic process, and I want people who are going to interface with those crews to know before they are selected who they are, and have a voice in saying they don’t want them. I’d like to hear it.” He said do it, so after I became deputy director we had a board of people representing the various organizations that were going to interface with the crews. Deke had to present the names of the people that were going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that a similar process you carried through for the first four Shuttle flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Had not known that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I don’t know that they still do that. Just done while I was there. I always said, and I said in my book, I thought it was wrong to have an astronaut in charge of the astronauts. Now some of them are okay, some of them would be okay. I guess some of them would have performed a good job, but I thought it was in error to have an astronaut. That’s the reason as soon as I had the opportunity I put George Abbey in charge of it. I got rid of Slayton; I put him in another job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What effect did that have on your relationship with Deke?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.354043281832904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Had not known that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I don’t know that they still do that. Just done while I was there. I always said, and I said in my book, I thought it was wrong to have an astronaut in charge of the astronauts. Now some of them are okay, some of them would be okay. I guess some of them would have performed a good job, but I thought it was in error to have an astronaut. That’s the reason as soon as I had the opportunity I put George Abbey in charge of it. I got rid of Slayton; I put him in another job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What effect did that have on your relationship with Deke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of my closest friends. That didn’t mean I liked everything he did, particularly his relationship with the Public Affairs Department. God, we would make agreements between what the astronauts were going to do and how they were going to interface with the crew and what their time would be devoted to Public Affairs, and that would be the call of the head of the Public Affairs Department. Invariably he would ignore that. I’d have to call him on the phone and say, “Look, this is the agreement, I want it done.” Same is true with the doctors. Many times I had to call Deke and say, “Dr. Berry is the head doctor in this group, you’re not.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting that you say that. I’ve seen some of the memos between him and Dr. Berry. They’re humorous, especially in relation to Skylab."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.615603646481006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I don’t know that they still do that. Just done while I was there. I always said, and I said in my book, I thought it was wrong to have an astronaut in charge of the astronauts. Now some of them are okay, some of them would be okay. I guess some of them would have performed a good job, but I thought it was in error to have an astronaut. That’s the reason as soon as I had the opportunity I put George Abbey in charge of it. I got rid of Slayton; I put him in another job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What effect did that have on your relationship with Deke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of my closest friends. That didn’t mean I liked everything he did, particularly his relationship with the Public Affairs Department. God, we would make agreements between what the astronauts were going to do and how they were going to interface with the crew and what their time would be devoted to Public Affairs, and that would be the call of the head of the Public Affairs Department. Invariably he would ignore that. I’d have to call him on the phone and say, “Look, this is the agreement, I want it done.” Same is true with the doctors. Many times I had to call Deke and say, “Dr. Berry is the head doctor in this group, you’re not.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting that you say that. I’ve seen some of the memos between him and Dr. Berry. They’re humorous, especially in relation to Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I also called Dr. Berry up and said, “Stop running the organization. I’m in charge, you’re not.” You don’t see any memos on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve come across any of those."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.12844849609001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of my closest friends. That didn’t mean I liked everything he did, particularly his relationship with the Public Affairs Department. God, we would make agreements between what the astronauts were going to do and how they were going to interface with the crew and what their time would be devoted to Public Affairs, and that would be the call of the head of the Public Affairs Department. Invariably he would ignore that. I’d have to call him on the phone and say, “Look, this is the agreement, I want it done.” Same is true with the doctors. Many times I had to call Deke and say, “Dr. Berry is the head doctor in this group, you’re not.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting that you say that. I’ve seen some of the memos between him and Dr. Berry. They’re humorous, especially in relation to Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I also called Dr. Berry up and said, “Stop running the organization. I’m in charge, you’re not.” You don’t see any memos on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve come across any of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did it. I used to give him a hard time because he was always wanting to be out in front of the press. I didn’t like that. We’re still the closest of friends, we still have dinner together every once in a while every two, three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. I just had a couple more questions for you. I was thinking about operations when I was putting together this list of topics. I was wondering how, if at all, Space Shuttle operations changed from the early human spaceflight programs. In your opinion has it changed from the plan, train, fly? Has it evolved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 39.031609440100006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I also called Dr. Berry up and said, “Stop running the organization. I’m in charge, you’re not.” You don’t see any memos on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve come across any of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did it. I used to give him a hard time because he was always wanting to be out in front of the press. I didn’t like that. We’re still the closest of friends, we still have dinner together every once in a while every two, three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. I just had a couple more questions for you. I was thinking about operations when I was putting together this list of topics. I was wondering how, if at all, Space Shuttle operations changed from the early human spaceflight programs. In your opinion has it changed from the plan, train, fly? Has it evolved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not while I was there, to my knowledge. I think the relationship between the flight director and the flight controllers, between the medical people and the astronauts, I think those relationships were very clearly known and spelled out about who was going to be in charge. I know since then that that’s not the case, because I’ve had a number of emails asking me how it was, what I thought, and what I thought they should do. There’s almost an insurrection on occasion between the flight crews and the flight directors. I don’t know how that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The only other question I had for you is about our second Orbiter, which was Challenger. How closely were you following its assembly and its design?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the one that I wrote on the Shuttle? Be happy to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that could be interesting.\n\nBe a good topic. By then you might have more to tell us about what life brings in the next round."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I want wings on it. It’s hard to get. I don’t like water landings and parachutes. They’re too suspect. Gilruth said, “At least this plane is going to land in a dignified manner.” That’s what I like too, so I’m trying to influence that, but it may be too complicated. The biggest problem is, how do you abort off the pad? Tough to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have plans to go to the last Shuttle launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I might bring them bad luck. I’ve never seen a launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I thought you had told me.\n\nReally. You’ve never seen a launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I want wings on it. It’s hard to get. I don’t like water landings and parachutes. They’re too suspect. Gilruth said, “At least this plane is going to land in a dignified manner.” That’s what I like too, so I’m trying to influence that, but it may be too complicated. The biggest problem is, how do you abort off the pad? Tough to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have plans to go to the last Shuttle launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I might bring them bad luck. I’ve never seen a launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I thought you had told me.\n\nReally. You’ve never seen a launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never seen a manned launch, never. Always from the [Mission] Control Center. I don’t want to go now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you can just go back to the Control Center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00320:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I might bring them bad luck. I’ve never seen a launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I thought you had told me.\n\nReally. You’ve never seen a launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never seen a manned launch, never. Always from the [Mission] Control Center. I don’t want to go now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you can just go back to the Control Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll do that. I might do that, but I haven’t been back since they launched the Challenger. I was too sick. That was a terrible feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look forward to you coming back. See what it brings us next."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 31.981306873743513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my dad was a postal clerk when I was very young, and I have one sister four years younger than I am. When we relocated out to St. John's County into a community called Palm Valley, it was in close proximity to a very affluent area called Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida. And he had wanted to change careers and start a construction business, and he had a marvelous talent. They were educated as a contractor, but he just had an innate gift for knowing how to do an analysis of repair or figured out how to read blueprints. And he was in residential construction, repair and remodeling. He had a very, very good family business with my mother assisting and one of his sisters who had an accounting degree assisting with the books, and he was doing all the on- site work and bidding. And, you know, relations with the clients. Excellent business, always had more work than he could do and a great reputation and never advertised a lick, always word of mouth, and he really had a good business for his whole life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that changed the economic status of your family, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indeed, indeed. We went from, you know, fairly really not having much money to having enough money to pursue getting some horses for my sister, building some stables. We had a five acre piece of land as opposed to a lot in the city with a house on the lot. We had the five acre piece of land and room for stables and construction sheds and all kinds of storage areas that he was able to use in this construction business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's jump now to the University of Southern California. So you go there on a basketball scholarship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually I didn't. I had good grades out of high school. And the coaches were able to wrangle an academic scholarship out of the university called a trustee scholarship. So I went on a full academic scholarship with the understanding that I would play basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tell us about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.774053048939916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the year I, well, I think that was in '70. I went into VISTA, you know, shortly, I think in the fall of 1971."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And '71 was when you graduated from USC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Graduated in '71. I got married immediately after graduating and I got into VISTA, but my wife did not. But we, I did receive an offer from VISTA to work and go to training in Seattle, Washington, and I went out there and got my training. And my position with VISTA was working with a youth service bureau out of Lewiston, Idaho, which is right across the Snake River from Clarkston, Washington. And the Youth Service Bureau was providing services to pre-delinquent youth. They were junior high age and more likely, some of them were likely to get into trouble, and there were some community based programs out of the old Community Action Program, was a package of community services. And the Youth Service Bureau was one of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was your wife able to join you then at the VISTA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, after I was accepted, we did a, you know, my first assignment and then she applied and was accepted to VISTA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To VISTA. So then she was able to participate and live in the same place where you were at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.193392276599905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Graduated in '71. I got married immediately after graduating and I got into VISTA, but my wife did not. But we, I did receive an offer from VISTA to work and go to training in Seattle, Washington, and I went out there and got my training. And my position with VISTA was working with a youth service bureau out of Lewiston, Idaho, which is right across the Snake River from Clarkston, Washington. And the Youth Service Bureau was providing services to pre-delinquent youth. They were junior high age and more likely, some of them were likely to get into trouble, and there were some community based programs out of the old Community Action Program, was a package of community services. And the Youth Service Bureau was one of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was your wife able to join you then at the VISTA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, after I was accepted, we did a, you know, my first assignment and then she applied and was accepted to VISTA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To VISTA. So then she was able to participate and live in the same place where you were at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it took a while for her to get accepted. But during her training, when she went to Seattle, she met another man and started an affair. And when I found when she came back and told me that she had fallen in love with this other man, well, we tried some counseling. But basically it was, that was the end of our marriage. It was only that one-year marriage, and we probably both got married too early and we didn't have any children. It was fairly low key on the separation and divorce. So we both, we each went our separate ways so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your VISTA commitment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.659324751777673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, after I was accepted, we did a, you know, my first assignment and then she applied and was accepted to VISTA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To VISTA. So then she was able to participate and live in the same place where you were at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it took a while for her to get accepted. But during her training, when she went to Seattle, she met another man and started an affair. And when I found when she came back and told me that she had fallen in love with this other man, well, we tried some counseling. But basically it was, that was the end of our marriage. It was only that one-year marriage, and we probably both got married too early and we didn't have any children. It was fairly low key on the separation and divorce. So we both, we each went our separate ways so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your VISTA commitment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there from then say fall of '71 to fall of '72?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.177027501975191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it took a while for her to get accepted. But during her training, when she went to Seattle, she met another man and started an affair. And when I found when she came back and told me that she had fallen in love with this other man, well, we tried some counseling. But basically it was, that was the end of our marriage. It was only that one-year marriage, and we probably both got married too early and we didn't have any children. It was fairly low key on the separation and divorce. So we both, we each went our separate ways so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your VISTA commitment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there from then say fall of '71 to fall of '72?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. And during that time, I thought my volunteer service in VISTA had been rewarding. A couple of projects that were significant, got some funding for a program that Honda was running, that they donated a group of mini bikes to a community based program or a community leader would take these kids out on excursions on these mini bikes. And it just kind of a thing to work with the kids. So I got that funded and spun that off and then went to work on a drug education publication in the guise of a literary magazine that was funded through drug education money, a grant to a local mental health organization. So I was so satisfied with those achievements that I thought, I'd really like to go overseas, why don't I apply to the Peace Corps? So that's how I came up with the idea of joining the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you apply then, so that must have been, but that still must have taken you a while, right, to go through that application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.222264139575048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our initial orientation took place in Miami, and that was where they started a vaccination program and gave us some initial orientation. But the bulk of the orientation and training took place in country, in Bogota. After a very short period of time in a hotel, we were assigned to live with a host family who was not allowed to speak any English to us. And we started this immersion Spanish training very quickly. There wasn't, because we, you know, this was a brand new program and it turned out to be a fairly controversial program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The in-country training was new?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was no training to, because we were all basically athletes. And the adult rehabilitation considered consisted of running an athletic program within my little various district prisons around the country. And so I'm not sure what playing basketball and volleyball had to do with rehabilitating someone who was in jail. But that was the job that I had accepted, without really understanding a lot about it. But I knew generally what it was going to be, and I said, OK, if that's what the job is, I'll do it. And so after my language training, did you want to hear some more about the language training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was there? You might just briefly talk about that, but also were there other kinds of classes that you had, you know, cultural or historic or history or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, what training we got in the culture and history was done in the context of the Spanish conversation. All of the training, none of it was textbook. All of it was oral and it was extremely effective because from day one, it was conducted in Spanish. The teachers were very, of course, they were native speaking Colombians and they were very personable. And I feel sure that they had had some teaching experience because they seemed to be following a plan. They just weren't in a room with us shooting the breeze. They had ideas in mind of what they wanted to do with the language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that training last?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.469182377305609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was no training to, because we were all basically athletes. And the adult rehabilitation considered consisted of running an athletic program within my little various district prisons around the country. And so I'm not sure what playing basketball and volleyball had to do with rehabilitating someone who was in jail. But that was the job that I had accepted, without really understanding a lot about it. But I knew generally what it was going to be, and I said, OK, if that's what the job is, I'll do it. And so after my language training, did you want to hear some more about the language training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was there? You might just briefly talk about that, but also were there other kinds of classes that you had, you know, cultural or historic or history or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, what training we got in the culture and history was done in the context of the Spanish conversation. All of the training, none of it was textbook. All of it was oral and it was extremely effective because from day one, it was conducted in Spanish. The teachers were very, of course, they were native speaking Colombians and they were very personable. And I feel sure that they had had some teaching experience because they seemed to be following a plan. They just weren't in a room with us shooting the breeze. They had ideas in mind of what they wanted to do with the language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that training last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six weeks. Six weeks and living with the host family and having two meals a day with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you living with the host family by yourself or were there other Peace Corps volunteers with you in that same home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.394052317661245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six weeks. Six weeks and living with the host family and having two meals a day with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you living with the host family by yourself or were there other Peace Corps volunteers with you in that same home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me and the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that? How did you develop any kind of a relationship with them that was meaningful to you in terms of person to person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.10450257517916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me and the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that? How did you develop any kind of a relationship with them that was meaningful to you in terms of person to person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because of my limited language skills, I wasn't able to carry on a lot of profound discussions because I was starting from square one, not knowing much Spanish at all when I went to, when I showed up in country. But so we had some good discussions around the dinner table. But I don't think we really had any kind of connection on a personal level where we would, you know, try to stay in touch or anything like that. I think for them, it was an opportunity to make some extra money and probably get a few laughs at the volunteers at the gringo's attempt to say the right thing in Spanish and say an absolutely silly thing, which I know happened more than once."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the six weeks then, did you have any say in your next assignment or were you just told you're going to go to Huila and worked there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.893891750199067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me and the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that? How did you develop any kind of a relationship with them that was meaningful to you in terms of person to person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because of my limited language skills, I wasn't able to carry on a lot of profound discussions because I was starting from square one, not knowing much Spanish at all when I went to, when I showed up in country. But so we had some good discussions around the dinner table. But I don't think we really had any kind of connection on a personal level where we would, you know, try to stay in touch or anything like that. I think for them, it was an opportunity to make some extra money and probably get a few laughs at the volunteers at the gringo's attempt to say the right thing in Spanish and say an absolutely silly thing, which I know happened more than once."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the six weeks then, did you have any say in your next assignment or were you just told you're going to go to Huila and worked there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Huila and started work, but I know that there was someone from the Peace Corps Colombia that accompanied me to to the city and introduced me to the warden of the prison. And we worked out when I was supposed to show up and my starting date for showing up. And I also stayed with a family in Neiva, and someone had to make those arrangements because I didn't make those arrangements. There were, Peace Corps made those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just landed there as you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.882101944665628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because of my limited language skills, I wasn't able to carry on a lot of profound discussions because I was starting from square one, not knowing much Spanish at all when I went to, when I showed up in country. But so we had some good discussions around the dinner table. But I don't think we really had any kind of connection on a personal level where we would, you know, try to stay in touch or anything like that. I think for them, it was an opportunity to make some extra money and probably get a few laughs at the volunteers at the gringo's attempt to say the right thing in Spanish and say an absolutely silly thing, which I know happened more than once."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the six weeks then, did you have any say in your next assignment or were you just told you're going to go to Huila and worked there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Huila and started work, but I know that there was someone from the Peace Corps Colombia that accompanied me to to the city and introduced me to the warden of the prison. And we worked out when I was supposed to show up and my starting date for showing up. And I also stayed with a family in Neiva, and someone had to make those arrangements because I didn't make those arrangements. There were, Peace Corps made those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just landed there as you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a turnkey operation as far as I was concerned. I just, you know, just brought what little gear I had and came along to do my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us about the job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.34812062896758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they'd been there about five or six months. But they were getting money, so they were in patio number three and they had decent food. But they were glad to see me and first, all the prisoners were glad to see me because it was a break from the routine of just being there in prison. One day we would play have a basketball game and the next day we would play a volleyball game. Volleyball was pretty new to them, which was OK because it was pretty new to me as well. But we had some okay games, but after an hour and a half, two hours of basketball or volleyball, that was my job for the day. It was over. So I was let out of the prison and the rest of the day I was on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did you fill your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot of books. I bought some food and put it in the kitchen with my family. Preparing meals was not part of the deal, so I had to prepare my own meals or go out to a restaurant to eat. And there were some other Peace Corps volunteers in town, and I became friendly with them. We would socialize, and then it was almost an every night routine to go to the air-conditioned movie theater and watch the movie, even if it was playing the same film four or five nights in a row. Just to be in the air conditioning, we would go to the movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is you and the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me and the other Peace Corps volunteers. And then we had some parties where adult beverages were served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you were over 21. So this wasn't a problem."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.720134032186197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot of books. I bought some food and put it in the kitchen with my family. Preparing meals was not part of the deal, so I had to prepare my own meals or go out to a restaurant to eat. And there were some other Peace Corps volunteers in town, and I became friendly with them. We would socialize, and then it was almost an every night routine to go to the air-conditioned movie theater and watch the movie, even if it was playing the same film four or five nights in a row. Just to be in the air conditioning, we would go to the movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is you and the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me and the other Peace Corps volunteers. And then we had some parties where adult beverages were served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you were over 21. So this wasn't a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was over 21. But one of the strange things about being in Colombia was that this was right after the United States CIA involvement in Chile, and I felt an almost palpable distrust of me as an American, especially on the part of young people. I didn't feel welcome. I felt sure that most Colombians thought I was CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of them say that to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.244593369095774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me and the other Peace Corps volunteers. And then we had some parties where adult beverages were served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you were over 21. So this wasn't a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was over 21. But one of the strange things about being in Colombia was that this was right after the United States CIA involvement in Chile, and I felt an almost palpable distrust of me as an American, especially on the part of young people. I didn't feel welcome. I felt sure that most Colombians thought I was CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of them say that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But the CIA was very much in the news. Chile was very much in the news. And it's just discomforting to walk down the sidewalk and pass a little old lady, and she makes the sign of the cross when she passes you. So you just get the idea that maybe this gringo is not particularly welcome in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were a very tall gringo. There was nowhere you could hide."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.827325965661972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was over 21. But one of the strange things about being in Colombia was that this was right after the United States CIA involvement in Chile, and I felt an almost palpable distrust of me as an American, especially on the part of young people. I didn't feel welcome. I felt sure that most Colombians thought I was CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of them say that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But the CIA was very much in the news. Chile was very much in the news. And it's just discomforting to walk down the sidewalk and pass a little old lady, and she makes the sign of the cross when she passes you. So you just get the idea that maybe this gringo is not particularly welcome in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were a very tall gringo. There was nowhere you could hide."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not exactly going to blend in at six foot nine with, in those days, blond hair and blue eyes. I was clearly a gringo. And so, you know, but it was OK that, you know, I mean, there wasn't anybody that. I never felt threatened physically or anything, but I just didn't feel any warm fuzzies from the people. But I also, you know, was getting some vibes from Peace Corps administration that the program was not popular. That there were people in the Colombian government who did not like having gringos in the prisons because not only criminals were in prisons, but mentally ill people were there and political prisoners. So it was, uh, I felt like the ship was sinking on that program. I just didn't feel that it was going to continue. And so coupled with the fact that I didn't feel that the host country really wanted me there, I just told the country director that I wanted to leave and I wanted to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what reasons did you give him? Those reasons specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.661626839042485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the reasons of the program that I thought was failing and was unpopular. And I just got that, you know, that vibe was very strong. I don't think I really talked with him about the, you know, the fact of the people not being that friendly or welcoming. I did have an issue at that time of my mother's health, and that was a thought in my mind that I would, you know, I would tell him that. And it was true that, you know, she was not in very good health and that was a concern of mine. And I just with both of these things, the program on shaky ground and her health, I thought it was a good idea for me to leave. Well, he was a very nice guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that director, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think his name was Manny Rodriguez. I think it was Manuel. I think it was Rodriguez. Of course, he was an American, Peace Corps country director. But he was very wise in the fact that he said, well, you know, and looking at your folder and your record, you have had an excellent you have been an excellent volunteer in VISTA and what you've done here has been completely satisfactory. Why don't you go back to Washington, D.C., to the Peace Corps headquarters and look for another job in the Peace Corps? I said that sounds like a plan to me. I will do it. And that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were then, you went into Peace Corps in February. You left in September, you said. And so that's what about eight months, nine months, in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about seven, seven or eight months, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you were in your site anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.401807598936095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think his name was Manny Rodriguez. I think it was Manuel. I think it was Rodriguez. Of course, he was an American, Peace Corps country director. But he was very wise in the fact that he said, well, you know, and looking at your folder and your record, you have had an excellent you have been an excellent volunteer in VISTA and what you've done here has been completely satisfactory. Why don't you go back to Washington, D.C., to the Peace Corps headquarters and look for another job in the Peace Corps? I said that sounds like a plan to me. I will do it. And that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were then, you went into Peace Corps in February. You left in September, you said. And so that's what about eight months, nine months, in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about seven, seven or eight months, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you were in your site anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so were there some positive things that you took from that experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.00200844326233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about seven, seven or eight months, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you were in your site anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so were there some positive things that you took from that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed the. I really enjoyed speaking Spanish, talking with people, did some touring around to visit other volunteers and see what their jobs were. The country was absolutely beautiful. And some of the cultural attractions in Bogota that we saw while we were there, going to the Museo de Oro, the Gold Museum, and some of the other attractions. I'm sure we went to some other museums and parks, which Bogota had a plentiful supply, and very good restaurants. Neiva not so much. It was a much smaller town, but Bogota, even in those days, was a very, very large town. And but I really enjoyed my time interacting with the Spanish language instructors. They were more well-educated people and they were very, very funny. They liked Americans, they enjoyed their jobs. But I just, you know, I don't have a lot of super positive memories of being in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Before we move to your next assignment, are there any individuals, either Peace Corps volunteers or Colombians, with whom you have had contact consequent to your life in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.78000938140259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so were there some positive things that you took from that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed the. I really enjoyed speaking Spanish, talking with people, did some touring around to visit other volunteers and see what their jobs were. The country was absolutely beautiful. And some of the cultural attractions in Bogota that we saw while we were there, going to the Museo de Oro, the Gold Museum, and some of the other attractions. I'm sure we went to some other museums and parks, which Bogota had a plentiful supply, and very good restaurants. Neiva not so much. It was a much smaller town, but Bogota, even in those days, was a very, very large town. And but I really enjoyed my time interacting with the Spanish language instructors. They were more well-educated people and they were very, very funny. They liked Americans, they enjoyed their jobs. But I just, you know, I don't have a lot of super positive memories of being in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Before we move to your next assignment, are there any individuals, either Peace Corps volunteers or Colombians, with whom you have had contact consequent to your life in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Mm hmm. Ok."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.75556597933621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed the. I really enjoyed speaking Spanish, talking with people, did some touring around to visit other volunteers and see what their jobs were. The country was absolutely beautiful. And some of the cultural attractions in Bogota that we saw while we were there, going to the Museo de Oro, the Gold Museum, and some of the other attractions. I'm sure we went to some other museums and parks, which Bogota had a plentiful supply, and very good restaurants. Neiva not so much. It was a much smaller town, but Bogota, even in those days, was a very, very large town. And but I really enjoyed my time interacting with the Spanish language instructors. They were more well-educated people and they were very, very funny. They liked Americans, they enjoyed their jobs. But I just, you know, I don't have a lot of super positive memories of being in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Before we move to your next assignment, are there any individuals, either Peace Corps volunteers or Colombians, with whom you have had contact consequent to your life in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Mm hmm. Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't there long enough to make really good friends with the volunteers or with any Colombians, you know? But with language training in one city, work in another city, and then gone. It was a fairly small length of service, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.950628865929122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Mm hmm. Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't there long enough to make really good friends with the volunteers or with any Colombians, you know? But with language training in one city, work in another city, and then gone. It was a fairly small length of service, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, none. It was a very good experience. I enjoyed being there. I mean, I have my doubts that what I did was had any kind of lasting effect. But maybe the fact of interacting with those prisoners and just treating them like regular people and having some fun in an adult recreation was, you know, it certainly helped them in a small way, you know, get through their prison time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that prison program continued? Or do you have any idea whether it was continued after you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.389587628810137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't there long enough to make really good friends with the volunteers or with any Colombians, you know? But with language training in one city, work in another city, and then gone. It was a fairly small length of service, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, none. It was a very good experience. I enjoyed being there. I mean, I have my doubts that what I did was had any kind of lasting effect. But maybe the fact of interacting with those prisoners and just treating them like regular people and having some fun in an adult recreation was, you know, it certainly helped them in a small way, you know, get through their prison time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that prison program continued? Or do you have any idea whether it was continued after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know for sure. I never heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, let's move you to your next assignment then. What did you do when you left Colombia? Where did you go and what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.09954180978904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, none. It was a very good experience. I enjoyed being there. I mean, I have my doubts that what I did was had any kind of lasting effect. But maybe the fact of interacting with those prisoners and just treating them like regular people and having some fun in an adult recreation was, you know, it certainly helped them in a small way, you know, get through their prison time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that prison program continued? Or do you have any idea whether it was continued after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know for sure. I never heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, let's move you to your next assignment then. What did you do when you left Colombia? Where did you go and what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, after I went to D.C.?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, is that where you landed directly from Colombia then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.443935344210047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know for sure. I never heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, let's move you to your next assignment then. What did you do when you left Colombia? Where did you go and what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, after I went to D.C.?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, is that where you landed directly from Colombia then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went home to Florida and was there for a little bit and then went up to D.C. for a couple of days, circulated around Peace Corps headquarters, talked to some people and there was nothing immediately that happened. And then I went back to Florida and thinking, I better figure out what I am going to do with my life because Peace Corps doesn't look like it's happening for me. But a few days later, I got a phone call from D.C. saying we have an opportunity that we think fits your skill set. Would you consider a position in Kenya? And I said, well, that depends, is it a real job? And they said, oh yes, it's definitely a real job. You would be working at the Medical Training Center in Nairobi. It's in close proximity to the National Hospital, and they train people who are radiologists, physical therapists, pharmacists, and you would be working with the faculty to develop audiovisual teaching aids. I said, OK, sounds good. Yes, I'll do it. So there was a point, I don't believe that, I don't think we really got, well, on the plane to go until January. So I think it was just they weren't ready for me to come until after the first of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This would have been January of 1975 then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.041968212482924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some language training, but there was no training for doing my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swahili. And the Peace Corps had had a hotel in Mombasa, right on the coast, where the true Swahili speakers live in Kenya is along the coast. And they had a small hotel called the New Sea Breezes. And for a number of years, they were running language classes at the New Sea Breezes. And there were some German volunteers that were also taking Swahili. Kenya has two national languages, English and Swahili. So they felt like we should learn some Swahili because out in the countryside where you would find different tribes, they might not speak any English, but they would probably speak some Swahili. So I really enjoyed my language training and I just enjoy learning language, and it's pretty easy for me.\n\nSo in the Swahili language is not that different from the Spanish language in its rhythm and its pronunciation. Of course, the grammar is different, but the fact that it had the same sounds and kind of the same rhythm made it easier to learn. And so I picked up on some Swahili and had two different phases of Swahili training, but phase one was in the New Sea Breezes is phase one. Phase two was a month or two down the road after I'd been on the job. I was plucked from my office environment and put on an oceanfront hotel to take language lessons under a thatched roof hut on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tough assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, but the language learning was important. I went, I went, and I did my best in those trying circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds pretty idyllic to me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.713298013869917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swahili. And the Peace Corps had had a hotel in Mombasa, right on the coast, where the true Swahili speakers live in Kenya is along the coast. And they had a small hotel called the New Sea Breezes. And for a number of years, they were running language classes at the New Sea Breezes. And there were some German volunteers that were also taking Swahili. Kenya has two national languages, English and Swahili. So they felt like we should learn some Swahili because out in the countryside where you would find different tribes, they might not speak any English, but they would probably speak some Swahili. So I really enjoyed my language training and I just enjoy learning language, and it's pretty easy for me.\n\nSo in the Swahili language is not that different from the Spanish language in its rhythm and its pronunciation. Of course, the grammar is different, but the fact that it had the same sounds and kind of the same rhythm made it easier to learn. And so I picked up on some Swahili and had two different phases of Swahili training, but phase one was in the New Sea Breezes is phase one. Phase two was a month or two down the road after I'd been on the job. I was plucked from my office environment and put on an oceanfront hotel to take language lessons under a thatched roof hut on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tough assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, but the language learning was important. I went, I went, and I did my best in those trying circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds pretty idyllic to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was really good, especially if you take into consideration the palm wine that was flowing after the language classes were over for the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was the extent of your formal training, and it sounds like it was in the language. And what about your day to day job as an audiovisual specialist? Did you know about audiovisual technology before you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.68144223763324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, but the language learning was important. I went, I went, and I did my best in those trying circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds pretty idyllic to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was really good, especially if you take into consideration the palm wine that was flowing after the language classes were over for the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was the extent of your formal training, and it sounds like it was in the language. And what about your day to day job as an audiovisual specialist? Did you know about audiovisual technology before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How had you learned that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.31271359737027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was really good, especially if you take into consideration the palm wine that was flowing after the language classes were over for the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was the extent of your formal training, and it sounds like it was in the language. And what about your day to day job as an audiovisual specialist? Did you know about audiovisual technology before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How had you learned that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was self-taught. I had done some video. I had a part time job in college as a videotaping technician for the L.A. City School District. And that was, you know, I don't know, you know, I knew I could write because I didn't have any problem writing in my journalism classes. And so the rest of the audiovisual component or department at the medical training center was a Peace Corps volunteer who was a medical illustrator. He would draw anatomical drawings and they would run them off on a mimeograph machine. Well, I didn't know when I got there that that mimeograph machine was about the extent of the AV equipment. But my first job was to survey the audiovisual equipment, and it didn't take long to determine that the 16-millimeter projector that they had was ancient and was broken.\n\nSo my daily duties were to show up, read the newspaper, go to tea with the faculty members, morning tea in British. Morning and afternoon tea is a British tradition, and Kenya had been a British colony, so they had a lot of British customs. After that checked the mail, mail time was at teatime, but after that it was pretty much head to the city into town for lunch, and that was the end of the day. Well, it was pretty strange because I knew that, I mean, my associate wasn't working that hard, but he had been there for two years and had extended for two more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was a Peace Corps volunteer too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.12523733041141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How had you learned that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was self-taught. I had done some video. I had a part time job in college as a videotaping technician for the L.A. City School District. And that was, you know, I don't know, you know, I knew I could write because I didn't have any problem writing in my journalism classes. And so the rest of the audiovisual component or department at the medical training center was a Peace Corps volunteer who was a medical illustrator. He would draw anatomical drawings and they would run them off on a mimeograph machine. Well, I didn't know when I got there that that mimeograph machine was about the extent of the AV equipment. But my first job was to survey the audiovisual equipment, and it didn't take long to determine that the 16-millimeter projector that they had was ancient and was broken.\n\nSo my daily duties were to show up, read the newspaper, go to tea with the faculty members, morning tea in British. Morning and afternoon tea is a British tradition, and Kenya had been a British colony, so they had a lot of British customs. After that checked the mail, mail time was at teatime, but after that it was pretty much head to the city into town for lunch, and that was the end of the day. Well, it was pretty strange because I knew that, I mean, my associate wasn't working that hard, but he had been there for two years and had extended for two more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was a Peace Corps volunteer too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in his third year as a Peace Corps volunteer, so he knew everybody. Everybody was comfortable with him, and he and I shared an office. I didn't really have anything to do in the office, but we were still in there and he was doing his drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was the medical illustrator?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 29.302297409558612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And after my meeting with the director, I tried to slow down a little bit, but it's when you're already at stop, it's difficult to slow down any further. But I did look for additional projects that I could do with the medical training center. I can't say that anything came to much, but after another six months of basically nothing, I decided that I would look for another position in Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your companion, the medical illustrator Peace Corps volunteer, was he still there and was he continuing to do illustrations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was pretty busy then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't say he was busy, but he had steady, he had steady work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he talk with you about what things you might be able to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.345065400942865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was north of, uh, it was north of Mombasa, north of Malindi, which Malindi was, where the hotel was where we did the language training. So you kept going north. And I mean, pretty far north, you're getting close to the I mean, you have to go a bit farther to get to the, well, to get to Ethiopia. But it was far northeastern part of the coast, off the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this director's name, the director of the African Studies Institute, that's the man you were working with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was working with a research fellow. His name was James Atalon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said you did some of the recordings of these ritual dancing, that you did those recordings in video?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Audio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In audio, so you weren't able to capture the images unfortunately."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.383406001047625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was working with a research fellow. His name was James Atalon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said you did some of the recordings of these ritual dancing, that you did those recordings in video?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Audio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In audio, so you weren't able to capture the images unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was done, no, and I didn't have any video recording equipment. I did have audio recording equipment, but still cameras. But the dancing was done at night by torch light. So it would have been dramatic if I could have taken video, but just didn't have the ability to capture video like we do today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work with Mr. Allen through then the rest of your Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.5575461073733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Young men becoming warriors. And in that process, they leave childhood, they get circumcised without anesthetic, and then they go into warrior training and they become warriors. But those things had been prohibited for quite a while, and this was the first time in years that that had been allowed. So it was there was a lot of joyous celebration with the warriors that were already full-fledged warriors dancing. And their dancing consisted of leaping off the ground, repeatedly, way off the ground. And the women, meantime, would just, you know, make these cries that were not melodies. They were just kind of a cry of joy from their, just kind of welled up out of them. I mean, if you've seen movies about Africa, you've heard that kind of cry. But it was the first time I had ever heard it in person, for sure. And it was a happy occasion. And it was, I think in doing that work, we probably helped save some vision for some of those people. It was a short, fairly short-term project, but it had some ongoing aspects that I really wasn't a part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role in this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was taking photographs and I was a logistics expert, which meant that I would take a Land Rover and pick up a group of Samburu and haul them to a tent where the equipment had been set up. They would be examined and then I would put them back in the Land Rover and take them back close to where I picked them up and get some more people. So I was just facilitating the. I had met Dr. Whitfield is just a friend, a friend of a friend type thing, and it was his idea to invite me along on the study, which I was happy to do. And the African Studies Institute, they were very relaxed about my work and the hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you record any of the things that were happening then, either by photography or video or audio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have still pictures. I have images, but I don't have any audio recording or video."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the ritual. Right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.397273452637002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was taking photographs and I was a logistics expert, which meant that I would take a Land Rover and pick up a group of Samburu and haul them to a tent where the equipment had been set up. They would be examined and then I would put them back in the Land Rover and take them back close to where I picked them up and get some more people. So I was just facilitating the. I had met Dr. Whitfield is just a friend, a friend of a friend type thing, and it was his idea to invite me along on the study, which I was happy to do. And the African Studies Institute, they were very relaxed about my work and the hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you record any of the things that were happening then, either by photography or video or audio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have still pictures. I have images, but I don't have any audio recording or video."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the ritual. Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A pretty good number of still images."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Ok, so were there other projects that you remember from that work, from your work with the African Studies Institute?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.711730000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Seattle, and I was delivering pizzas and cooking pizzas and managing others who were doing the same. But that was short lived, and I was living in a really rundown part of Seattle near the Space Needle, which I'm sure now is gentrified and is very fancy and expensive. But it was had some really low rent flats in those days that occupied by me and a gazillion cockroaches. Not cockroaches, silver fish, those little tiny ones. Anyway, but right across the street from where I lived, there was a broadcast school and I kept hearing ads for it on the radio. The Ron Bailie School of Broadcast. I thought, well, I would like to be in radio or TV journalism.\n\nSo I enrolled at the Ron Bailie School of Broadcast, took their fairly short. It was a trade school and I got a certification as a first-class radio telephone operator with the FCC, which was a real job ticket. Because radio stations had to have a first-class licensee on their staff just because the regulations, so you could you could get a job even if you were lousy. But as a deejay or a newsman, but I got a job after Ron Bailie working across the bay in a little town called Bremerton. And I was playing music and doing a part time news job. So I pursued a broadcast career in Washington, and then I eventually decided to come back to Florida and did more deejay and journalism work for a while until that career ended and another career started in the banking business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and about when did that transition happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have been about 1977, early '78."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you went into the banking business, were you also in public relations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out in public relations, in marketing, and then became a true banker, running, doing consumer loans and managing a bank branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in? Was this in Florida?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.6797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have been about 1977, early '78."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you went into the banking business, were you also in public relations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out in public relations, in marketing, and then became a true banker, running, doing consumer loans and managing a bank branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in? Was this in Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.533000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out in public relations, in marketing, and then became a true banker, running, doing consumer loans and managing a bank branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in? Was this in Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did that about, uh, I did that 10 years old, about 11 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So until the eighties, into the '80s, well into the '80s, probably, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.370000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did that about, uh, I did that 10 years old, about 11 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So until the eighties, into the '80s, well into the '80s, probably, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was well into the '80s and into the '90s, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK. And now you're in the information business."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00004:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did that about, uh, I did that 10 years old, about 11 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So until the eighties, into the '80s, well into the '80s, probably, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was well into the '80s and into the '90s, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK. And now you're in the information business."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am, the software, the software business. Yeah, we didn't even have computers for much of my, well, of course, in the bank, you have a computer. But in those days it was one little screen connected to a giant computer at headquarters that everybody had to use that one screen. But of course, the personal computer revolution was happening at that time. But yeah, but when the banking industry left me, I got a job with a software company and that's, I'm still working with that same product. The company got acquired, but I stayed with the company that acquired the small software company, and it's been a very rewarding and, for the most part, enjoyable career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's, as we wind this conversation down, let's reflect a little bit about how your experience as a Peace Corps volunteer in in two different countries, how that influenced your career or your life."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00702:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were post-flight. Our purpose in life is post-flight, so we had no impact on stopping a launch. They would consider us if it was like 25-foot seas out there. They’d say, “Well, you’re not going to be on station.” There’s been twice since I’ve been here where they’ve sent aircraft out to spot the boosters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which flights those were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I don’t, I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had one other question, kind of a fun question. You guys are known as the “NASA Navy.” What do you guys think of that term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, I never paid a whole lot of attention to it. We’re also called the Yacht Club sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hadn’t heard that one.\n\nThis operation is very unique. You spent so much of your life in marine operations. This one is a lot like what you’ve done, yet different. What do you find to be the most challenging part of the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00702:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a fair question. It’s all good, I don’t know how you’d look at it as a challenge. When the Air Force Titan blew up with an NRO [National Reconnaissance Office] payload on it, we’re all sitting in class and you get the call, “Hey, you guys may be going to sea.” That afternoon it’s, “You’re going to sea,” and we’re steaming out of here and heading off shore.\\n\\n Everybody here is up for a challenge, so the challenge in rough seas and getting the operation done safely probably was one of the biggest things. You can get real wound up out there trying to watch people and hope people weren’t getting hurt. We went from when I was first here, the little soft-bottom inflatables with outboards on them, to hard bottom boats that are heavy. The other boats you could drag around by hand, these boats weigh 2,500 pounds. Somebody could get smashed up against the ship, fall in that hard aluminum hull, a bunch of different things.\\n\\n You’ve got to worry about a guy falling out of a rubber boat, but he’s not going to get hurt. A guy in a rubber boat calls you up saying, “Hey, the boat is sinking. What do I do?” “Get out of the boat.” “Huh?” “Get out of the boat, it’s not going to go anywhere.” These aluminum hulls with the flotation around them, they’re hard. People can get hurt. You worry about that sort of stuff. You worry about people getting hurt. I think that’s probably the most challenging thing for me, is trying to ensure in the operations we’re doing that none of our people get hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve been here for a number of years. How many missions did you actually work for the Shuttle program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t have any idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The barge, did you make that journey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can think of that we hadn’t thought about asking you about that is part of your job or part of the operations that maybe we just haven’t thought about asking?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00702:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t have any idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The barge, did you make that journey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can think of that we hadn’t thought about asking you about that is part of your job or part of the operations that maybe we just haven’t thought about asking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s been a unique job. It’s been a lot of fun. We’ve had some wonderful people here, some very talented people. A lot of ideas and a lot of different work. As I said, I don’t think there was a single retrieval mission that was the same as the other one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The good thing was that they all came back safe, and you got your hardware back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00702:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can think of that we hadn’t thought about asking you about that is part of your job or part of the operations that maybe we just haven’t thought about asking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s been a unique job. It’s been a lot of fun. We’ve had some wonderful people here, some very talented people. A lot of ideas and a lot of different work. As I said, I don’t think there was a single retrieval mission that was the same as the other one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The good thing was that they all came back safe, and you got your hardware back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, got the hardware back in good condition the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good way to end the program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00702:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s been a unique job. It’s been a lot of fun. We’ve had some wonderful people here, some very talented people. A lot of ideas and a lot of different work. As I said, I don’t think there was a single retrieval mission that was the same as the other one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The good thing was that they all came back safe, and you got your hardware back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, got the hardware back in good condition the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good way to end the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you for giving us your time today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00298:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 84.68699176952808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go by Tom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tom, Ok. [We are] at your home [in Lago Vista, Texas] on June 7th 1999. The interview is being conducted under a [cooperative agreement] between Southwest Texas State University and NASA [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You will receive a copy of the transcript from NASA, not from me or the University. Do you understand that this interview is being conducted for SWT and NASA archives for research purposes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the best place to start is biographical background; childhood, where you grew up. Beginning there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Anniston, Alabama, in 1938. I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, and I graduated from Auburn University in 1961 with a Bachelors degree in aeronautical engineering. I went to work for the Navy Department in a wind tunnel, up around the Washington, D.C. area initially, and worked for a year and a half there before I took a job with NASA. NASA was just starting in their Houston operation, having moved there from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia]. This was in 1962, October ’62.\\n\\n I guess that’s pretty much it, how I got to NASA. Is that about what you’re looking for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see an ad in the newspaper or did you just talk to people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00298:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoy working on computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m taking some courses at the junior college, networking and that kind of thing, local area networks, Novell and NT. But that’s pretty much my career so far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One last question, real quick."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you look back on your career is there just one thing that really stands out if you’re just chit chatting/talking about what you did? Really bad or really good?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00002:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 97.81137405976939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would write everything on his blackboard. We’re back in the blackboard-and-chalk days here. So he would write things on his blackboard, options or things they needed to decide or things that needed to be done or decisions they’d make. He would just write it on the blackboard, so by the end of the afternoon or into the evening when he quit, it would be full, and so he would have his secretary—he had a crackerjack secretary—go in and she would copy all that stuff down and type it up, and that would serve as the minutes of the meeting.\\n\\n Well, it evolved and evolved, and by Shuttle, they were big meetings with a lot of people going to them. But that was their Flight Techniques’ humble little start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did that group meet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been weekly. It wasn’t more often than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good opportunity for you to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so that was another fun thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get off this time period, could you share with us—you mentioned something about overnight computing, and you came of this age also when computers were starting to be used. Can you give us kind of a look at how your experience grew, how you used your math and started doing these computer programs and, as you mentioned, stacking the decks and overrunning those at night?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 81.94271867609598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of this is pre-Gagarin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That, to a degree at least, prompted action, didn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 87.71413186232887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of this is pre-Gagarin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That, to a degree at least, prompted action, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. This activity was in the spring of ’58. And [Sputnik had been launched roughly 7 months before]—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was leading up, then, to the formation of NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 28, "return_to_go": 89.68236873592096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That, to a degree at least, prompted action, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. This activity was in the spring of ’58. And [Sputnik had been launched roughly 7 months before]—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was leading up, then, to the formation of NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was leading up to the formation of NASA. And as I say, Gilruth and Faget and one other person—Charlie [Charles H.] Zimmerman—were key people in the fight not only for NASA, but in the fight for a manned spaceflight program. Even within the NACA group, there [were] questions about how important a manned spaceflight program might be. Many were much more interested in a pure science type of program.\\n\\n But, in any event, I went up and briefed them with this spec. And as a result, Max was able to show this spec to the President’s Scientific Advisory Committee—the PSAC committee. The Air Force, who was our chief competitor, didn’t have a spec at that time. And, although they had been doing work on it in advance of the work that we had done, they hadn’t bothered to really end up having a true detailed specification. And that was a significant [point] in getting a manned spaceflight program and having it put in NASA.\\n\\n The reason why NASA, I guess, was formed in the first place as a civil agency is that’s what Eisenhower wanted. He did not want to have a military activity in space other than for military purposes itself. He felt that if there were space activities for other purposes, that should be headed by a civil agency. Well, after it was pretty well decided that there would be a NASA and that NACA would be the nucleus for developing a NASA, Gilruth, [Zimmerman,] and Faget came back. We went to work on preparing a work statement for the purpose of letting contracts for the so-called Mercury spacecraft. That was also about the time the spacecraft was named “Mercury,” by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By this time, was the Space Task Group yet in place?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 52.43374672401735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mercury Control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, in other words, that was the predecessor of all the more modern control rooms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With such things as flight dynamics—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had all those. We had flight dynamics officers and it was much more rudimentary, of course. But we had all those things. In fact, Chris had set up this Control Center organization; and some very key people—there was a fellow by the name of Tec, Tecwyn Roberts, who was a Welshman, who in a way, as far as Flight Control was [concerned], was Chris’s right-hand man. Very low profile. He did operate in the Control Center, but he was much more low profile. But he, in many respects, was the brains behind a lot of the things that went on. And then there was a Scotchman who ultimately went back; I think he went back to Great Britain. But he did an awful lot of work on the design of the Control Center itself. But there [were] a considerable number of people, like John [D.] Hodge was another Flight Director, and so forth. And these were either Canadians or Englishmen or Welshmen and Scotchmen and what-have-you. So that was the international impact on the Mercury Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And right about that time, when all of these things were beginning to go into place, is that when Walt Williams came aboard with his X-15 experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.45066721036878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had begun working on it; right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I started working with him on it, largely to bring in the operational inputs again. And at that time I spent most of the time on that spacecraft, which turned out to be the Gemini spacecraft. Later on, as things developed more completely, the Gemini spacecraft went well beyond that because, as you know—as everybody knows—the President decided to go to the Moon; and as we determined what things might be required to do that—like flying for a week or two, or rendezvous, or extravehicular activity, and so forth—these things were injected into the Gemini spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to my notes, too, they even had something called parasail, which they wanted to work with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and introducing the Titan rocket rather than the Atlas."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.210700259714546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and introducing the Titan rocket rather than the Atlas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s correct. And I’ll get to that eventually in just a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, Gilruth was very strong in this, that there should be an intermediate spacecraft between Mercury and Apollo that could demonstrate that the things that were being specified for Apollo, in terms of mission specifications and other things, could really be accomplished. And as a result, the Gemini spacecraft was subsequently approved. And as a matter of fact, Gemini and the Apollo command module, the contracts for those two were let within a month of each other—one for a short-base program to get information in a hurry, and the other for a much longer program, which ultimately would land on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And somewhere in there, somebody had to decide how do you pronounce the name. Was it Gemini [long e] or Gemini [long i]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.234111399682828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s correct. And I’ll get to that eventually in just a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, Gilruth was very strong in this, that there should be an intermediate spacecraft between Mercury and Apollo that could demonstrate that the things that were being specified for Apollo, in terms of mission specifications and other things, could really be accomplished. And as a result, the Gemini spacecraft was subsequently approved. And as a matter of fact, Gemini and the Apollo command module, the contracts for those two were let within a month of each other—one for a short-base program to get information in a hurry, and the other for a much longer program, which ultimately would land on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And somewhere in there, somebody had to decide how do you pronounce the name. Was it Gemini [long e] or Gemini [long i]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which way would it be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.98038444405287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which way would it be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I gave a talk just recently down at the Cape. They’re putting in a Gemini memorial down there, [and] they had a banquet. They raised that same question. And I told the audience that I’d like to have them vote. So I told them that I would like everyone [who] favored Gemini [long e] to say “Aye,” and after that I asked the audience that everyone [who] favored Gemini [long i] to say “Aye,” and of course there were ayes on both sides. And I said, “The ayes have it.” And, it’s really pronounced Gemini [long i], okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Well—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently, I call it Gemini [long e], but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you’ve been calling it Gemini [long e] throughout this interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.755982715614298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I gave a talk just recently down at the Cape. They’re putting in a Gemini memorial down there, [and] they had a banquet. They raised that same question. And I told the audience that I’d like to have them vote. So I told them that I would like everyone [who] favored Gemini [long e] to say “Aye,” and after that I asked the audience that everyone [who] favored Gemini [long i] to say “Aye,” and of course there were ayes on both sides. And I said, “The ayes have it.” And, it’s really pronounced Gemini [long i], okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Well—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently, I call it Gemini [long e], but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you’ve been calling it Gemini [long e] throughout this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do I. Walt Williams told me to call it that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.839980795126998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently, I call it Gemini [long e], but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you’ve been calling it Gemini [long e] throughout this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do I. Walt Williams told me to call it that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He said, “That’s the way it’s going to be.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.26664532791889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do I. Walt Williams told me to call it that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He said, “That’s the way it’s going to be.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He made an instant decision. I don’t think it’ll ever get fully resolved, do you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.07405036435432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He said, “That’s the way it’s going to be.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He made an instant decision. I don’t think it’ll ever get fully resolved, do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry I interrupted, but I—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.30450040483813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He made an instant decision. I don’t think it’ll ever get fully resolved, do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry I interrupted, but I—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—had to go with that, so that for future reference, future generations will probably call it Gemini [long e] or Gemini [long i]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 32, "return_to_go": 47.005000449820145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry I interrupted, but I—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—had to go with that, so that for future reference, future generations will probably call it Gemini [long e] or Gemini [long i]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, sir. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.869990016491602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jerome Wiesner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Wiesner was the head of it, but he didn’t show up at this meeting. It was his Deputy, and he ultimately became head of it, but I can’t remember his name right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we left off, we were talking here about lunar orbit, Earth orbit, Huntsville vs. Houston—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and the whole thing was a big Magilla."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.411100018324003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Wiesner was the head of it, but he didn’t show up at this meeting. It was his Deputy, and he ultimately became head of it, but I can’t remember his name right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we left off, we were talking here about lunar orbit, Earth orbit, Huntsville vs. Houston—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and the whole thing was a big Magilla."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it work out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.679000020360004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and the whole thing was a big Magilla."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had mentioned the fact that we had discussed lunar orbit rendezvous. We had fun with all these people at a cocktail hour between the 2 days of meetings, and then in the afternoon of the second day, the fellow that was chairing the meeting said, “I understand that there’s somebody here [who] knows something about lunar orbit rendezvous. And I wonder if Mr. Mathews would get up and tell us about it.” So I [got] up and, of course, these PSAC people were very brilliant people and great debaters and everything else, and they were literally cutting me to ribbons, I’m telling you. [Every time] I’d bring up something, there was about five different reasons why the idea was no good, you know. And I was very miserable. But, there was kind of a pause, and Wernher got up and said, “I’ve been thinking about lunar orbit rendezvous, and lunar orbit rendezvous is the way to go.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Wernher von Braun?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.087777800400005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had mentioned the fact that we had discussed lunar orbit rendezvous. We had fun with all these people at a cocktail hour between the 2 days of meetings, and then in the afternoon of the second day, the fellow that was chairing the meeting said, “I understand that there’s somebody here [who] knows something about lunar orbit rendezvous. And I wonder if Mr. Mathews would get up and tell us about it.” So I [got] up and, of course, these PSAC people were very brilliant people and great debaters and everything else, and they were literally cutting me to ribbons, I’m telling you. [Every time] I’d bring up something, there was about five different reasons why the idea was no good, you know. And I was very miserable. But, there was kind of a pause, and Wernher got up and said, “I’ve been thinking about lunar orbit rendezvous, and lunar orbit rendezvous is the way to go.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Wernher von Braun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wernher von Braun. Now that story has been told other ways, like Joe Shea being involved with it. And I think he was subsequently involved with—not with the PSAC meeting but with a discussion with the Huntsville people. But that’s really what happened at that particular time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "PSAC is what? The Presidential Science Advisory—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.764197556000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had mentioned the fact that we had discussed lunar orbit rendezvous. We had fun with all these people at a cocktail hour between the 2 days of meetings, and then in the afternoon of the second day, the fellow that was chairing the meeting said, “I understand that there’s somebody here [who] knows something about lunar orbit rendezvous. And I wonder if Mr. Mathews would get up and tell us about it.” So I [got] up and, of course, these PSAC people were very brilliant people and great debaters and everything else, and they were literally cutting me to ribbons, I’m telling you. [Every time] I’d bring up something, there was about five different reasons why the idea was no good, you know. And I was very miserable. But, there was kind of a pause, and Wernher got up and said, “I’ve been thinking about lunar orbit rendezvous, and lunar orbit rendezvous is the way to go.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Wernher von Braun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wernher von Braun. Now that story has been told other ways, like Joe Shea being involved with it. And I think he was subsequently involved with—not with the PSAC meeting but with a discussion with the Huntsville people. But that’s really what happened at that particular time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "PSAC is what? The Presidential Science Advisory—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Committee. Just for interest."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.293552840000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wernher von Braun. Now that story has been told other ways, like Joe Shea being involved with it. And I think he was subsequently involved with—not with the PSAC meeting but with a discussion with the Huntsville people. But that’s really what happened at that particular time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "PSAC is what? The Presidential Science Advisory—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Committee. Just for interest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was in existence for a very long period of time; well before the Mercury—well before NASA. And then, oh, up to at least to the seventies, I’d say; maybe even longer. But, in any event, there was one other aspect of that story which I wasn’t involved with. But, during a visit that Kennedy made to the Marshall Center, the PSAC people again brought this question of Earth orbit rendezvous up, and von Braun told them, “No, NASA has already decided it’s going to be lunar orbit rendezvous.” And, of course, that pretty well ended [it]. There were some other formalities, you know; reports to be written and things like that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The essence of this, as I gather it, Chuck, is: that during this period of time, you were looking ahead and then the real essence of what you were doing at that time was to figure out what did you need to know before you could ever possibly move on into Apollo, and what it would entail. And that seems to me to be squarely centered on Gemini, which was the interim program, was it not?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.10394760000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Committee. Just for interest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was in existence for a very long period of time; well before the Mercury—well before NASA. And then, oh, up to at least to the seventies, I’d say; maybe even longer. But, in any event, there was one other aspect of that story which I wasn’t involved with. But, during a visit that Kennedy made to the Marshall Center, the PSAC people again brought this question of Earth orbit rendezvous up, and von Braun told them, “No, NASA has already decided it’s going to be lunar orbit rendezvous.” And, of course, that pretty well ended [it]. There were some other formalities, you know; reports to be written and things like that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The essence of this, as I gather it, Chuck, is: that during this period of time, you were looking ahead and then the real essence of what you were doing at that time was to figure out what did you need to know before you could ever possibly move on into Apollo, and what it would entail. And that seems to me to be squarely centered on Gemini, which was the interim program, was it not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how in the world did you get to be head of the Gemini Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.78216400000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was in existence for a very long period of time; well before the Mercury—well before NASA. And then, oh, up to at least to the seventies, I’d say; maybe even longer. But, in any event, there was one other aspect of that story which I wasn’t involved with. But, during a visit that Kennedy made to the Marshall Center, the PSAC people again brought this question of Earth orbit rendezvous up, and von Braun told them, “No, NASA has already decided it’s going to be lunar orbit rendezvous.” And, of course, that pretty well ended [it]. There were some other formalities, you know; reports to be written and things like that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The essence of this, as I gather it, Chuck, is: that during this period of time, you were looking ahead and then the real essence of what you were doing at that time was to figure out what did you need to know before you could ever possibly move on into Apollo, and what it would entail. And that seems to me to be squarely centered on Gemini, which was the interim program, was it not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how in the world did you get to be head of the Gemini Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. Well, as I say I was working in the Spacecraft Technology Division, and we had fought the battle of lunar orbit rendezvous and the lunar module. And, just like on Mercury or any of these programs, we’d sent out a request for proposal with a specification and got proposals in and had, in fact, selected Grumman as the developer of the lunar module. This occurred just before Christmas in 1962. And that pretty well ended my involvement with the Apollo Program. The groups that I [was] working with went on to other things, even doing some work on the Space Station and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s remarkable to me that Space Station was being seriously discussed and considered all the way back in time, into the early sixties. It took a long time to come to fruition."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.757960000000008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how in the world did you get to be head of the Gemini Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. Well, as I say I was working in the Spacecraft Technology Division, and we had fought the battle of lunar orbit rendezvous and the lunar module. And, just like on Mercury or any of these programs, we’d sent out a request for proposal with a specification and got proposals in and had, in fact, selected Grumman as the developer of the lunar module. This occurred just before Christmas in 1962. And that pretty well ended my involvement with the Apollo Program. The groups that I [was] working with went on to other things, even doing some work on the Space Station and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s remarkable to me that Space Station was being seriously discussed and considered all the way back in time, into the early sixties. It took a long time to come to fruition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, I’m sorry I interrupted."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 33.064400000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. Well, as I say I was working in the Spacecraft Technology Division, and we had fought the battle of lunar orbit rendezvous and the lunar module. And, just like on Mercury or any of these programs, we’d sent out a request for proposal with a specification and got proposals in and had, in fact, selected Grumman as the developer of the lunar module. This occurred just before Christmas in 1962. And that pretty well ended my involvement with the Apollo Program. The groups that I [was] working with went on to other things, even doing some work on the Space Station and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s remarkable to me that Space Station was being seriously discussed and considered all the way back in time, into the early sixties. It took a long time to come to fruition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, I’m sorry I interrupted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a thought."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00368:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 24.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Build the foundations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, I think in a way we did our best work at that particular time. Anyway, it was the only [program] that was really downtown and in a rather poor district. So I went down there and spent about 3 hours trying to find it; I couldn’t even find where it was located. Finally [I] found it; it was operating on the 4th floor of this GSA building. Only one other floor was occupied; the rest of it was rat-infested, I guess you’d say. But they sent me over there with the idea that I had to determine, within 2 weeks, whether to continue the program or recommend to disband it. One of the reasons behind this was the fact that—I didn’t get to talk about Dyna-Soar; but that’s another manned spaceflight program that the Air Force put into being, really based on this Round Three concept that I mentioned a long time ago. It was a winged vehicle; and the program was being developed by the Boeing Company. And the Secretary of Defense—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Robert S.] McNamara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "McNamara, right. Every once in a while, these things slip me these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yup. It was McNamara."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:0", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.069325029509624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The thing is, are we going to get background?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We may. Let's just. All right. So this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's do a little bit and see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So this is Gail Gall on September 10th, 2009, and I'm interviewing Lon Lembert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2019."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, 2019. And interviewing Lon Lembert, who was part of Honduras 15 group from 1969 to 1971.\n\nIt's still recording."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.410361143899582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's do a little bit and see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So this is Gail Gall on September 10th, 2009, and I'm interviewing Lon Lembert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2019."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, 2019. And interviewing Lon Lembert, who was part of Honduras 15 group from 1969 to 1971.\n\nIt's still recording."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. One, two, three, four, five, go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.011512382110645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2019."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, 2019. And interviewing Lon Lembert, who was part of Honduras 15 group from 1969 to 1971.\n\nIt's still recording."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. One, two, three, four, five, go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little mini cassette tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I know. They were so much easier."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.901680424567385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. One, two, three, four, five, go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little mini cassette tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I know. They were so much easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that's very true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so let's go ahead and start with, um. So today's interview is being conducted in Lesterville, Missouri. And with Lon Lembert and he's from group 15. So the first common question, of course, is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 32.112978249519315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little mini cassette tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I know. They were so much easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that's very true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so let's go ahead and start with, um. So today's interview is being conducted in Lesterville, Missouri. And with Lon Lembert and he's from group 15. So the first common question, of course, is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have to, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.125531388354794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that's very true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so let's go ahead and start with, um. So today's interview is being conducted in Lesterville, Missouri. And with Lon Lembert and he's from group 15. So the first common question, of course, is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have to, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for probably two reasons. One, at the time of my senior year in college, I decided, based on some of the other things I've done, that I wanted to spend, that I want to do, to do something in my life that I could say I maybe made a difference or made a contribution. And the other one, of course, was I didn't want to go to the Vietnam War. And I figured this was positive versus the negative of being in the war. I had signed up and I'd been accepted into the Navy, but didn't, didn't want to go. That was actually a third fallback besides going to Canada. But mainly I had had some experience internationally and I wanted another one and I wanted it to be something that I felt like I was accomplishing something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your other experience international?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 29.028368209283105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have to, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for probably two reasons. One, at the time of my senior year in college, I decided, based on some of the other things I've done, that I wanted to spend, that I want to do, to do something in my life that I could say I maybe made a difference or made a contribution. And the other one, of course, was I didn't want to go to the Vietnam War. And I figured this was positive versus the negative of being in the war. I had signed up and I'd been accepted into the Navy, but didn't, didn't want to go. That was actually a third fallback besides going to Canada. But mainly I had had some experience internationally and I wanted another one and I wanted it to be something that I felt like I was accomplishing something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your other experience international?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had gone to school in the Netherlands my junior year of college and been able to travel around all of Europe and some of Eastern Europe. And we had a lot of classes. It was business oriented and trade oriented. And the idea of trade and building up underdeveloped countries and stuff was of a, was of interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good, good, good. So before doing the Peace Corps, what, a little bit of your background. You talked a little bit about education and going abroad. Your childhood or any other experiences relevant to going into Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.022676801584076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had gone to school in the Netherlands my junior year of college and been able to travel around all of Europe and some of Eastern Europe. And we had a lot of classes. It was business oriented and trade oriented. And the idea of trade and building up underdeveloped countries and stuff was of a, was of interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good, good, good. So before doing the Peace Corps, what, a little bit of your background. You talked a little bit about education and going abroad. Your childhood or any other experiences relevant to going into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know that they actually contributed to, uh. I grew up in a very, you know, the 1950s middle class, small town of Vancouver, Washington, right across the river from Portland, Oregon. I was the second of five in my family. My dad was a pediatrician. My mom was a housewife. I went to private Catholic schools from first grade up through 12 years of age. But I had had a Jesuit priest, uh, mister, who in my junior year taught sociology and was talking about Brown versus Board of Education and, and we were studying poverty and stuff. And he ended up then the next year going to Africa. And that made a big impact on me. He kind of put his money where his mouth was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a kind of a role model, influencer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.802974223982307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know that they actually contributed to, uh. I grew up in a very, you know, the 1950s middle class, small town of Vancouver, Washington, right across the river from Portland, Oregon. I was the second of five in my family. My dad was a pediatrician. My mom was a housewife. I went to private Catholic schools from first grade up through 12 years of age. But I had had a Jesuit priest, uh, mister, who in my junior year taught sociology and was talking about Brown versus Board of Education and, and we were studying poverty and stuff. And he ended up then the next year going to Africa. And that made a big impact on me. He kind of put his money where his mouth was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a kind of a role model, influencer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Then I went to a small college in cow country and in central Washington and didn't think too much, too much about. Well, we were talking a lot about the war and about the military industrial complex and all those kinds of things. But it wasn't until I came back from Holland my senior year that I had a roommate who, and we talked a lot about all the situation, the world situation, and what we could do. And went middle of winter. All of a sudden, here's this sign by the student union, Peace Corps recruitment center.\n\nSo stopped in to get more information. And came back, filled out the stuff, and took the language test and applied. And I wanted to, I know that's one of the other thing is I chose Central South America as a primary simply because I figured, you know, Mr. Practical, that it would be something that I might be able to use the language when I came back. India was second and just for the total change of culture, and I thought that was very kind of interesting. And then Africa was third."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. That's pretty interesting. So, um. So you did hear about the Peace Corps. It sounds like we've covered this through the recruitment. What made you want to apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.50984472096581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Then I went to a small college in cow country and in central Washington and didn't think too much, too much about. Well, we were talking a lot about the war and about the military industrial complex and all those kinds of things. But it wasn't until I came back from Holland my senior year that I had a roommate who, and we talked a lot about all the situation, the world situation, and what we could do. And went middle of winter. All of a sudden, here's this sign by the student union, Peace Corps recruitment center.\n\nSo stopped in to get more information. And came back, filled out the stuff, and took the language test and applied. And I wanted to, I know that's one of the other thing is I chose Central South America as a primary simply because I figured, you know, Mr. Practical, that it would be something that I might be able to use the language when I came back. India was second and just for the total change of culture, and I thought that was very kind of interesting. And then Africa was third."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. That's pretty interesting. So, um. So you did hear about the Peace Corps. It sounds like we've covered this through the recruitment. What made you want to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I guess I had seen enough and maybe read little blurbs about this Peace Corps that was pretty new. And it sounded very, you know, very interesting. And being a Kennedy person spent, probably paid more attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when I saw the sign, it's like, oh, okay, let's, let's go check it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.788716356628676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I guess I had seen enough and maybe read little blurbs about this Peace Corps that was pretty new. And it sounded very, you know, very interesting. And being a Kennedy person spent, probably paid more attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when I saw the sign, it's like, oh, okay, let's, let's go check it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so I had applied and hadn't heard anything, hadn't heard anything. Worried about the draft. So I extended, I took fewer hours my sophomore, my, uh, my senior spring quarter and I went to summer school to keep my 2-A classification. And about halfway through the summer, I was visiting a lady's house over in Seattle. And I got a call from one of my roommates and said, this guy from Washington, D.C., called. And so I asked if I could use the phone, called back, and they were saying, welcome, you've been accepted to Honduras. And honestly, I would have to say, okay, I got to get to the library and find out exactly where Honduras is.\n\nBut I knew it was Spanish speaking and I knew, you know, he told me a few things and that I was going to be working in co-ops and which was, I mean, at least it had a little bit to do with my major at the time of business, international business. But so I knew that and I was just, yeah, happy and kind of scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So this was in the summer of '69?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.553970810652686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so I had applied and hadn't heard anything, hadn't heard anything. Worried about the draft. So I extended, I took fewer hours my sophomore, my, uh, my senior spring quarter and I went to summer school to keep my 2-A classification. And about halfway through the summer, I was visiting a lady's house over in Seattle. And I got a call from one of my roommates and said, this guy from Washington, D.C., called. And so I asked if I could use the phone, called back, and they were saying, welcome, you've been accepted to Honduras. And honestly, I would have to say, okay, I got to get to the library and find out exactly where Honduras is.\n\nBut I knew it was Spanish speaking and I knew, you know, he told me a few things and that I was going to be working in co-ops and which was, I mean, at least it had a little bit to do with my major at the time of business, international business. But so I knew that and I was just, yeah, happy and kind of scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So this was in the summer of '69?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in the summer of '69, and it was probably mid-July. It would be my guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was still getting a little bit late in this summer session and I was running out of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, you stated already that you had some preference about where to go and you talked a little bit about wanting to, the practical aspect of being in Central America or South America. And so just tell us for the record, the project you were invited to join."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.059967567391872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in the summer of '69, and it was probably mid-July. It would be my guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was still getting a little bit late in this summer session and I was running out of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, you stated already that you had some preference about where to go and you talked a little bit about wanting to, the practical aspect of being in Central America or South America. And so just tell us for the record, the project you were invited to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So I was, I was, uh, and I didn't know anything about it until actually weeks after we got into country, exactly what it would entail. But there was a national federation of credit and savings cooperatives that was, had about 125 units. And we were going to be trained to basically do auditing for the co-ops, but also do some instruction in cooperation and savings and training to the credit committees and some of the operations of the credit union. What I didn't know is, well, I'll talk about that later, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um. So you knew that you were going to go into the credit when you got the phone call?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.73329729710208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was still getting a little bit late in this summer session and I was running out of options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, you stated already that you had some preference about where to go and you talked a little bit about wanting to, the practical aspect of being in Central America or South America. And so just tell us for the record, the project you were invited to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So I was, I was, uh, and I didn't know anything about it until actually weeks after we got into country, exactly what it would entail. But there was a national federation of credit and savings cooperatives that was, had about 125 units. And we were going to be trained to basically do auditing for the co-ops, but also do some instruction in cooperation and savings and training to the credit committees and some of the operations of the credit union. What I didn't know is, well, I'll talk about that later, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um. So you knew that you were going to go into the credit when you got the phone call?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I knew when I got, when I got that, and he explained a little bit about that. It sounded, it sounded great, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. And so, um. I just want to make sure we're still going. That's good. Okay. So. So training. We'll talk a little bit about when and where you were trained and prepped."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.096406877512033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would give us a little bit of an idea, something to talk with them about. And then actually later it also led me to try planting some of my own crops in my first site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um. So in what extent did the training adequately prepare you for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Well, even though I didn't have confidence that I could, by the time it came to go into country, I could make my way through different things and ask enough questions that I could function at a basic level. Couldn't understand, not a good language person. So it was a slow process, but it gave me enough of an understanding. And then with the, with the co-op training, you know, we had the, we had our sheets of paper and our information on the, to do the auditing and stuff. We were familiar enough with that to be able to go to a smaller co-op and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing some of that, doing some of that work. And of course, that was an ongoing, ongoing process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you interact with other volunteers and host country people during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.218229863902259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Well, even though I didn't have confidence that I could, by the time it came to go into country, I could make my way through different things and ask enough questions that I could function at a basic level. Couldn't understand, not a good language person. So it was a slow process, but it gave me enough of an understanding. And then with the, with the co-op training, you know, we had the, we had our sheets of paper and our information on the, to do the auditing and stuff. We were familiar enough with that to be able to go to a smaller co-op and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing some of that, doing some of that work. And of course, that was an ongoing, ongoing process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you interact with other volunteers and host country people during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, you met tons of people. There were 42 in our group and a lot of it centered around the people that you were in language class with. Number one, because those are the people that you spent most time with. And then the people were going to be in the, working for FACACH [Federacion de Cooperativas de Ahorro y Credito de Honduras], the credit union. Those were other people that you spent more time with. But throughout, I think, you know, at least got to know a lot of different people from everywhere across the United States and in a lot of different walks of life. And, uh, and it was, that was a real bonus. We liked, you know, the trainers were excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any trainers from FACACH come to camp or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.388518331827514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I, not that I remember. Not that I remember. It was somebody that, uh, I think he actually maybe was from, on the staff in Honduras that came and did some of it. But I don't remember meeting because I, you know, I would have noticed if they got it when we got into country that, oh yeah, you were at our training, because there weren't that many. They didn't have that much staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "FACACH didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "FACACH didn't. So in a sense that we really completed a lot of the, of the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the trainers you had were Peace Corps trainers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.998170780033966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the trainers you had were Peace Corps trainers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were. They were Peace Corps trainers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least as far as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So. So what was your initial introduction to the country like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.985396024733294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least as far as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So. So what was your initial introduction to the country like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy. Well, the initial was the airplane ride from hell coming down the mountain thinking for sure we were going to crash in an old DC-6 that had rickety seats and some of the seats didn't work and the others were okay. And we were so close to the ground the whole way down, I thought, oh my God, if there's an air, you know, air pocket or something, we're going to die. But getting there and getting out and my first impression was like, wow, this is a tropical paradise. There are palm trees, warm air, and it didn't smell that bad. And it was just very interesting. And of course, it was Tegucigalpa. So it was, it was pretty busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was just like taking everything, I was taking everything in. And at that point, you know, I was really liked what I, what I saw. It was someplace different and people seem okay and it just said, all right, you know, this is going to, this is going to be okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good, good. Okay. And so how did Peace Corps staff play a role in facilitating your entry?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.59349772549218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was like 78 or 80 or something like that. And, uh, and Paco, my direct, my FACACH director, you know, did the introductions and we talked and all that kind of stuff. And Paco didn't speak any, any Spanish, any English, but he made sure that I was understanding. And there was a, the grandson of this lady became my, my mentor and my good friend. He was a year younger than I was. But she showed me, eventually ended up showing me the ropes and stuff. And here was this one little room and, uh, and a bed and a little table and chair with a, with a window. And, you know, then Paco left and it's like, ahh!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a beautiful setting, on the other hand. Pine trees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a lot of pine trees. And it was up high and it was at about 4,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were the specifics of the job to which you were assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.365218251777645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by the time I, I also helped to organize and get some money to, uh, to start the. It was about a three-room schoolhouse but had some other modern features like an office for the teacher and that kind of thing.\n\nBut we, we only had water 6 months out of the year, but I think the volunteer before me or even before that or somebody had come up and there was a, we had a gravity flow system with one spigot to each house. And that was, that was just during the rainy season. The rest of the time there was a creek fairly nearby that you had to pull your water and stuff, so that it was, there was no. In terms of the school, there's no bathrooms or anything that was going to go in there. But I ended up using the CARE, funds from CARE and from the American embassy to buy supplies to finish the roof in the one room classroom in the mountains, which the, which the dads carried up on their friggin' backs for miles, the metal to be used. And they completed that.\n\nAnd we had a big ceremony before I left. I was there for, I was there for about 11 months. And then we had the basic, the foundation started on the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our, in the village. So it was, you know, I had a lot of extra time in terms of not, not having to, a whole bunch of co-ops to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you want to talk a little bit about your second assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.96135361308627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our, in the village. So it was, you know, I had a lot of extra time in terms of not, not having to, a whole bunch of co-ops to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you want to talk a little bit about your second assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So, so for the second year, we, we ended up getting some jeeps from the Panama program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why don't you explain that a little bit more, like from Peace Corps Panama?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.9819442357663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because Peace Corps Panama was leaving Peace Corps for political or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political issues. And I think I believe we got somewhere around like six jeeps. And so then my Spanish was better and then I moved from the central part of Honduras to kind of the southwest part of Honduras and had a district of six, six or seven co-ops. And these were larger co-ops that were opened every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I, then I became more of a, of a, what you call an extensionist in agriculture. I mean, a co-op extensionist and truly going around and doing two or three days each place, auditing their books and getting any name for any information and being the spokes, you know, going into the central office. And if anybody, if there are any issues that the, that the people needed additional help with. And occasionally I got support from the, their full-time people were more than willing to come out and help participate in, oh, a pep talk or a sponsorship, you know, membership building kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got more participation from FACACH?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.424382484184775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political issues. And I think I believe we got somewhere around like six jeeps. And so then my Spanish was better and then I moved from the central part of Honduras to kind of the southwest part of Honduras and had a district of six, six or seven co-ops. And these were larger co-ops that were opened every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I, then I became more of a, of a, what you call an extensionist in agriculture. I mean, a co-op extensionist and truly going around and doing two or three days each place, auditing their books and getting any name for any information and being the spokes, you know, going into the central office. And if anybody, if there are any issues that the, that the people needed additional help with. And occasionally I got support from the, their full-time people were more than willing to come out and help participate in, oh, a pep talk or a sponsorship, you know, membership building kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got more participation from FACACH?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got more, yeah, I got more participation from FACACH because there was a lot more to do and a lot more at stake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the workday there six days or five days or flexible?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 26.027091649094196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I, then I became more of a, of a, what you call an extensionist in agriculture. I mean, a co-op extensionist and truly going around and doing two or three days each place, auditing their books and getting any name for any information and being the spokes, you know, going into the central office. And if anybody, if there are any issues that the, that the people needed additional help with. And occasionally I got support from the, their full-time people were more than willing to come out and help participate in, oh, a pep talk or a sponsorship, you know, membership building kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got more participation from FACACH?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got more, yeah, I got more participation from FACACH because there was a lot more to do and a lot more at stake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the workday there six days or five days or flexible?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was flexible. It was flexible. Mainly five days. But then if you were finishing up at some place, you didn't want to have to. You didn't want to come back. You wanted to make sure you got the work done. And but that, it seems like I just made it fit into a five-day workweek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, oh, what did you do during vacation time? Fill it in as you like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.405862235557441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Oh well, they totally screwed them up. I came back not knowing at all, kind of, I didn't. I was no longer interested in business. I was interested more in government or doing something in the public sector. And I guess that that was a really, yeah, that was a really good thing because that just felt like it fit more than being in the business world. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a big insight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did, just a couple of sentences about how, what did you do then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.145347104949611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if possible, get them into everyday kind of jobs that would be more consistent. We had a winter, what they call a winter day school, where they, when they were not working in the farm in the wintertime, things would slow down and if they were still around, get them in and have them work towards improved English and getting a GED. I didn't do that specific job, but that was what the agency was meant for. And it paid just, it was like Peace Corps wages in the United States, $467 or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I, I went to Seattle and tried to get on with the city, the state, and it was just a hard time. So I ended up going back into business with South End Corporation for about nine months. Had applied to graduate school social work because that also it, a light went on when I was struggling looking for work and saying oh my God, yeah, that's, you know. So I looked into that and I got accepted to Portland State University, had delayed my entrance. And then I finally, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Either way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. And had it with business, business world and reactivated my application and then started and got my master's in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Okay. So overall, how do you assess your service in light of three goals of the Peace Corps, uh, to, I'll just read all three, okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.717052338832901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I, I went to Seattle and tried to get on with the city, the state, and it was just a hard time. So I ended up going back into business with South End Corporation for about nine months. Had applied to graduate school social work because that also it, a light went on when I was struggling looking for work and saying oh my God, yeah, that's, you know. So I looked into that and I got accepted to Portland State University, had delayed my entrance. And then I finally, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Either way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. And had it with business, business world and reactivated my application and then started and got my master's in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Okay. So overall, how do you assess your service in light of three goals of the Peace Corps, uh, to, I'll just read all three, okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is to provide technical assistance when requested. Two is to promote better understanding of Americans. Three is, C is to promote better understanding of other people by Americans. So technical assistance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.352280376481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. And had it with business, business world and reactivated my application and then started and got my master's in social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Okay. So overall, how do you assess your service in light of three goals of the Peace Corps, uh, to, I'll just read all three, okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is to provide technical assistance when requested. Two is to promote better understanding of Americans. Three is, C is to promote better understanding of other people by Americans. So technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, technical assistance. While it took a while, took a while. By the second year I was, I was able to answer almost every question and help with accounting issues and that kind of stuff. So I felt like I was, I felt like I truly was starting to function as an employee of the federation of credit unions. Uh. What was the second?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The better understanding of Americans by the host country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.496642440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, technical assistance. While it took a while, took a while. By the second year I was, I was able to answer almost every question and help with accounting issues and that kind of stuff. So I felt like I was, I felt like I truly was starting to function as an employee of the federation of credit unions. Uh. What was the second?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The better understanding of Americans by the host country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I resisted. Through USAID, there was all kinds that you could, you could get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A projector and the movies. And what I heard from them was that they were like, you know, middle America, you know, with kitchens that just, you know, it just, it just seemed ludicrous. So I never, I never did any of that. And it was mostly through talking. And people asking questions and you, you would answer them as best you could. And saying, well, it's a big country and here we do this. And another part of the country, they might do that, but we're all Americans. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the better understanding of other people for Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.674867210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A projector and the movies. And what I heard from them was that they were like, you know, middle America, you know, with kitchens that just, you know, it just, it just seemed ludicrous. So I never, I never did any of that. And it was mostly through talking. And people asking questions and you, you would answer them as best you could. And saying, well, it's a big country and here we do this. And another part of the country, they might do that, but we're all Americans. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the better understanding of other people for Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. And that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ever since. By Americans. Uh, certainly after I came back. The, you know, talked a lot about issues that people had and the misconceptions. Tried to pop the bubble that, you know, no, that's not really correct. And it kind of feels still in today's, in 19, you know, 2019, that it has to be done all over again, especially with the view of migrants coming into the country. But, um, yeah, there was nothing formal that I could put my finger on that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Through the years, have you continued to have any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with people from that country? Any continuing Peace Corps involvement and anything particular related to that third goal of understanding other people by Americans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.6561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that the Peace Corps has affected every, every bit of my life. And again, there's not like a specific kind of thing other than I always felt after the experience that I had the confidence that I could live anywhere and in any circumstance, and I could, I could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that has kind of carried, you know, of course, I'm not going to put myself in jeopardy to test that. But it gives you this, this different view of the world. It certainly, when you are abroad and you look back at your country, you see that here is the United States of America and Florida and Portland are a ways away, but they're not that far away. And the things going on in that, in your country, you see more about how they inter-react and stuff and you are all part of the same country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of shrinks, kind of shrinks the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's good. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm just going to assume, like, because had you never left the Northwest, you might not have seen that, that unification of the States. Or am I putting words into your mouth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that has kind of carried, you know, of course, I'm not going to put myself in jeopardy to test that. But it gives you this, this different view of the world. It certainly, when you are abroad and you look back at your country, you see that here is the United States of America and Florida and Portland are a ways away, but they're not that far away. And the things going on in that, in your country, you see more about how they inter-react and stuff and you are all part of the same country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of shrinks, kind of shrinks the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's good. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm just going to assume, like, because had you never left the Northwest, you might not have seen that, that unification of the States. Or am I putting words into your mouth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, okay, no. Well, because I had had that experience, I guess I had had that experience in Europe also, being able to look back. But from, this was now from the Southern viewpoint and all the country that led up to it and Mexico and, and it was like, oh, this is North America. And part of North America is the United States. But a lot of people can, you know, made the distinction between, oh, you're North American or South American, never, you know, never, not in anybody's vocabulary. And so that was, it was similar, but it was a little different perspective of the country seen from the south looking up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of shrinks, kind of shrinks the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's good. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm just going to assume, like, because had you never left the Northwest, you might not have seen that, that unification of the States. Or am I putting words into your mouth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, okay, no. Well, because I had had that experience, I guess I had had that experience in Europe also, being able to look back. But from, this was now from the Southern viewpoint and all the country that led up to it and Mexico and, and it was like, oh, this is North America. And part of North America is the United States. But a lot of people can, you know, made the distinction between, oh, you're North American or South American, never, you know, never, not in anybody's vocabulary. And so that was, it was similar, but it was a little different perspective of the country seen from the south looking up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00149:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, like you always wish that you could have done more and that you were the kind of person that could just knock down barriers and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh. But, but you can't beat yourself up. You just do what you can do, you can do. And I have always felt like I learned much more than I gave, you know, and that just, just stuck with me. And we've had, you know, I've influenced my niece to go into and her husband to go into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Jamaica. And so, and some of my grandkids started to ask questions about, you know, what was this? What was that about? You know, what was that about? Well, and surprisingly, you know, the things. And they can't believe that I lived without water and electricity and that that's possible in today's world even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, great. You feel like we've covered enough?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.303195663853337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks for agreeing to be interviewed, Jeniffer. Tell me about your background, where you grew up, and how you heard about Peace Corps and why you decided to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So first off, I use both of my last names. It's Jeniffer Rivera Rodriguez, and before, like I'd said, I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and I was born in 1993 and my first language is Spanish. My second one is English. And I learned English because my mom, we moved one year to the U.S. when I was in seventh grade. I learned English and then we went back to Puerto Rico. Right now, I'm a master's student in the Kroc School of Peace Studies, in my second year. I live in San Diego, graduated in May 2020."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you were growing up in Puerto Rico, did you know anything about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a clue. It's not a thing. It's not a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that whole concept of like a volunteer service like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.670217404281486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So first off, I use both of my last names. It's Jeniffer Rivera Rodriguez, and before, like I'd said, I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and I was born in 1993 and my first language is Spanish. My second one is English. And I learned English because my mom, we moved one year to the U.S. when I was in seventh grade. I learned English and then we went back to Puerto Rico. Right now, I'm a master's student in the Kroc School of Peace Studies, in my second year. I live in San Diego, graduated in May 2020."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you were growing up in Puerto Rico, did you know anything about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a clue. It's not a thing. It's not a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that whole concept of like a volunteer service like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a thing. So I never heard about Peace Corps when I was there. But when I was, so my experience, how I learned about Peace Corps was super random. Because I was about to graduate from my bachelor's degree in psychology, and I knew that I wanted to do a master's, but I wasn't sure in what I was going to do it. So I was like, OK, I need to find something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you living at that time? You were still in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.855797115868317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a clue. It's not a thing. It's not a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that whole concept of like a volunteer service like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a thing. So I never heard about Peace Corps when I was there. But when I was, so my experience, how I learned about Peace Corps was super random. Because I was about to graduate from my bachelor's degree in psychology, and I knew that I wanted to do a master's, but I wasn't sure in what I was going to do it. So I was like, OK, I need to find something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you living at that time? You were still in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I did my bachelor's degree in Puerto Rico. And so that last year, as I was getting ready for graduation, I started Googling literally for things to do. I was like internships, summer jobs, everything, you name it, starting from scratch because nobody knew nothing. And what happened was that I was there on my computer trying to find things and a thought came to my mind. I was like, I asked my mom, like, didn't Tom Hanks do a movie about being a volunteer or something? And then she was like, yeah, I think he was like a Peace Corps volunteer or something. So I literally Googled Peace Corps. So that was super random, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If not for Tom Hanks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.061996795409241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a thing. So I never heard about Peace Corps when I was there. But when I was, so my experience, how I learned about Peace Corps was super random. Because I was about to graduate from my bachelor's degree in psychology, and I knew that I wanted to do a master's, but I wasn't sure in what I was going to do it. So I was like, OK, I need to find something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you living at that time? You were still in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I did my bachelor's degree in Puerto Rico. And so that last year, as I was getting ready for graduation, I started Googling literally for things to do. I was like internships, summer jobs, everything, you name it, starting from scratch because nobody knew nothing. And what happened was that I was there on my computer trying to find things and a thought came to my mind. I was like, I asked my mom, like, didn't Tom Hanks do a movie about being a volunteer or something? And then she was like, yeah, I think he was like a Peace Corps volunteer or something. So I literally Googled Peace Corps. So that was super random, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If not for Tom Hanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he made it happen. I should say thank you. So and then went to the website and read about it, and I was like, I think I'm going to do this. I mean, the idea of traveling and getting out of my little town that I was in and two years was a little intimidating, but I knew that it was going to be fulfilling, you know, in intentional growth there. So yeah, I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you apply? Because there wasn't an office down there, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.1799964393436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I did my bachelor's degree in Puerto Rico. And so that last year, as I was getting ready for graduation, I started Googling literally for things to do. I was like internships, summer jobs, everything, you name it, starting from scratch because nobody knew nothing. And what happened was that I was there on my computer trying to find things and a thought came to my mind. I was like, I asked my mom, like, didn't Tom Hanks do a movie about being a volunteer or something? And then she was like, yeah, I think he was like a Peace Corps volunteer or something. So I literally Googled Peace Corps. So that was super random, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If not for Tom Hanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he made it happen. I should say thank you. So and then went to the website and read about it, and I was like, I think I'm going to do this. I mean, the idea of traveling and getting out of my little town that I was in and two years was a little intimidating, but I knew that it was going to be fulfilling, you know, in intentional growth there. So yeah, I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you apply? Because there wasn't an office down there, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I, before I applied, I actually looked for the info sessions because you can put your zip code and they would like put the options of where you can go. And they had an info session like a week after that day at a college where I lived. So I went to the info session. And then, yeah, and after that, I applied by myself. Um, but when I went to the info session, there was like two more people. Like, it's not a thing I'm telling you. Like, nobody knew about Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they, so there must have been a returned volunteer that lived in Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.422218265937333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he made it happen. I should say thank you. So and then went to the website and read about it, and I was like, I think I'm going to do this. I mean, the idea of traveling and getting out of my little town that I was in and two years was a little intimidating, but I knew that it was going to be fulfilling, you know, in intentional growth there. So yeah, I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you apply? Because there wasn't an office down there, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I, before I applied, I actually looked for the info sessions because you can put your zip code and they would like put the options of where you can go. And they had an info session like a week after that day at a college where I lived. So I went to the info session. And then, yeah, and after that, I applied by myself. Um, but when I went to the info session, there was like two more people. Like, it's not a thing I'm telling you. Like, nobody knew about Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they, so there must have been a returned volunteer that lived in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so that was the only person representing the entire island. I forgot his name, honestly, because then he gave him my number and then I tried to call him, and that didn't work. So I don't even know his name or where he is, all just to say, I should also say thank you. But he was a RPCV, and he was, that was his job now, doing those info sessions in Puerto Rico because they don't have an office. So he was just doing his own, like that was a side thing, because they didn't have like headquarters or anything. I'm all about, they should do that, by the way, in Puerto Rico. But it's not a huge thing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And when you applied, so you looked at the materials online and so forth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.80246473993037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I, before I applied, I actually looked for the info sessions because you can put your zip code and they would like put the options of where you can go. And they had an info session like a week after that day at a college where I lived. So I went to the info session. And then, yeah, and after that, I applied by myself. Um, but when I went to the info session, there was like two more people. Like, it's not a thing I'm telling you. Like, nobody knew about Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they, so there must have been a returned volunteer that lived in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so that was the only person representing the entire island. I forgot his name, honestly, because then he gave him my number and then I tried to call him, and that didn't work. So I don't even know his name or where he is, all just to say, I should also say thank you. But he was a RPCV, and he was, that was his job now, doing those info sessions in Puerto Rico because they don't have an office. So he was just doing his own, like that was a side thing, because they didn't have like headquarters or anything. I'm all about, they should do that, by the way, in Puerto Rico. But it's not a huge thing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And when you applied, so you looked at the materials online and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you want to go? Did you have a preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.101808320901691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you want to go? Did you have a preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, because you know, when you go to the website, you can see all the countries, right? And I think for me, it was important to find a place that I can speak Spanish because I'm like, I already went through learning English. I knew they'd take advantage of my Spanish. So I definitely knew that I was going to go to Spanish speaking country and then I was thinking about Mexico, Panama, Guatemala, or Costa Rica. And then I don't know why I had this idea of Costa Rica and just being in like this amazing green country and beautiful and a place that everyone wanted to go. So I just YouTube, you know, technology now. It's just YouTube like Costa Rica, Peace Corps Costa Rica, and I saw a lot of videos of volunteers, of their experience there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was like, hey, it doesn't look bad. There was specifically a volunteer who lived on the beach, and I was like, I'm wondering if I can live next to the beach. So, yeah, I think I fell in love with the country. I just was watching videos about Costa Rica and the culture there and I was like, I think this is it. It's not hard for me to make decisions about my career. I think I just go with the flow. If it looks good, I don't overthink it. So I think it's just fit right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't, you weren't reluctant."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.940504099878629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was like, hey, it doesn't look bad. There was specifically a volunteer who lived on the beach, and I was like, I'm wondering if I can live next to the beach. So, yeah, I think I fell in love with the country. I just was watching videos about Costa Rica and the culture there and I was like, I think this is it. It's not hard for me to make decisions about my career. I think I just go with the flow. If it looks good, I don't overthink it. So I think it's just fit right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't, you weren't reluctant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. I was like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Independent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And the application process also was super easy, because a lot of people told me that before it was like more weird and I don't know longer. But I think for me, the application process, it wasn't something that I was like, oh, a pain. I think it was really easy and straightforward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps was pretty responsive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.600560110976254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. I was like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Independent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And the application process also was super easy, because a lot of people told me that before it was like more weird and I don't know longer. But I think for me, the application process, it wasn't something that I was like, oh, a pain. I think it was really easy and straightforward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps was pretty responsive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your family and friends think? Because you were probably the only person that they knew that had considered Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.3339556788625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And the application process also was super easy, because a lot of people told me that before it was like more weird and I don't know longer. But I think for me, the application process, it wasn't something that I was like, oh, a pain. I think it was really easy and straightforward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps was pretty responsive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your family and friends think? Because you were probably the only person that they knew that had considered Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my mom kind of knew, heard about Peace Corps, because she told me the Tom Hanks movie, so that's what she thought it was like. I haven't even seen the movie, by the way, so I don't even know how it came to mind. Um, so they were freaking out for sure. Freaking out. My grandmother was like, are you sure that you're going to let your daughter go? Because maybe they're going to, that's a trap. They're going to sell her or something. You know, everyone was scared. My mom one night came crying to me and she was like, can you please ask them to like send me an email just telling me that this is true? A huge deal. So my family didn't want me to go, because nobody really knew. We didn't know anyone else that went to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And especially, you're going off by yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.14883964318056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your family and friends think? Because you were probably the only person that they knew that had considered Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my mom kind of knew, heard about Peace Corps, because she told me the Tom Hanks movie, so that's what she thought it was like. I haven't even seen the movie, by the way, so I don't even know how it came to mind. Um, so they were freaking out for sure. Freaking out. My grandmother was like, are you sure that you're going to let your daughter go? Because maybe they're going to, that's a trap. They're going to sell her or something. You know, everyone was scared. My mom one night came crying to me and she was like, can you please ask them to like send me an email just telling me that this is true? A huge deal. So my family didn't want me to go, because nobody really knew. We didn't know anyone else that went to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And especially, you're going off by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I was 21. So and that was my first time also, like living in my small town. So they were just super scared, overwhelmed, crazy, crying. Nobody wanted me to go, but I was like, I don't care, I'm going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about your friends? And your brothers and sisters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.165377381311732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my mom kind of knew, heard about Peace Corps, because she told me the Tom Hanks movie, so that's what she thought it was like. I haven't even seen the movie, by the way, so I don't even know how it came to mind. Um, so they were freaking out for sure. Freaking out. My grandmother was like, are you sure that you're going to let your daughter go? Because maybe they're going to, that's a trap. They're going to sell her or something. You know, everyone was scared. My mom one night came crying to me and she was like, can you please ask them to like send me an email just telling me that this is true? A huge deal. So my family didn't want me to go, because nobody really knew. We didn't know anyone else that went to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And especially, you're going off by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I was 21. So and that was my first time also, like living in my small town. So they were just super scared, overwhelmed, crazy, crying. Nobody wanted me to go, but I was like, I don't care, I'm going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about your friends? And your brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a sister and I have lots of friends. And they didn't also never knew a lot about Peace Corps, but they were like, travel the world, why not? They were super excited I think. It was mainly my family who was really concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, that's understandable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.07264153479081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I was 21. So and that was my first time also, like living in my small town. So they were just super scared, overwhelmed, crazy, crying. Nobody wanted me to go, but I was like, I don't care, I'm going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about your friends? And your brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a sister and I have lots of friends. And they didn't also never knew a lot about Peace Corps, but they were like, travel the world, why not? They were super excited I think. It was mainly my family who was really concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, that's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And for Latino families, like, we're crazy and we just want to be in each other's life every day, every minute. So they were like, I don't know, like, do they have Wi-Fi? Can I call you? How can I contact you? And I didn't know, so I didn't have the answers to their questions. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, it's pretty brave of you to do that, too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.96960170532312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a sister and I have lots of friends. And they didn't also never knew a lot about Peace Corps, but they were like, travel the world, why not? They were super excited I think. It was mainly my family who was really concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, that's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And for Latino families, like, we're crazy and we just want to be in each other's life every day, every minute. So they were like, I don't know, like, do they have Wi-Fi? Can I call you? How can I contact you? And I didn't know, so I didn't have the answers to their questions. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, it's pretty brave of you to do that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I remember when I got that email, because I feel like the process of me applying since day one, I feel like day one was me Googling Peace Corps. So from there to getting accepted, I think it was super easy and fast, and I got an interview. So that first team, because you have to take like this test, right when you do, when you are applying, and then after that they were going to contact you and see if they want to interview you. So they emailed me, they're like, we want to interview you, like, do a Skype, have a Skype conversation. And I was like, I was super nervous, by the way, because I don't know. Um, so I just, yeah, I had this Skype interview and that was great. It was just me talking about myself, and I think it's really straightforward, right? You don't, you just be yourself. And then I remember getting that email that I got accepted. I remember I was watching a movie and I was like, oh, this is real. Like, it was really exciting, but also scary. But I knew that I was going to go for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that time when you went to the States in seventh grade, was that the only time that you traveled outside Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.70492562920762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mine was a particular experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's great. And then, OK, so did you do any orientation or training in the States or did you go straight to Costa Rica?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from Puerto Rico, I traveled to Texas. We did like a one or two day, I think it was like one day orientation. And we left the next morning. So I remember we stayed there in the hotel in Texas, in Houston, Texas, and I think I was a little intimidated again. I feel like my English, I was worried about my English. It was funny. That was like the only concern honestly. I was like, I know Spanish, I don't care, and I don't have a hard time socializing with people, but I was like, am I going to like? I was wondering if the training was going to be super technical or not. But anyway, I was just going with the flow and then that one day. Like, it wasn't a training, it was like a, I don't know, orientation, right? And then the next day we went to Costa Rica. And that's when my training started. And training was intense. Training was too long. It was like three months, right? But then it was like from 8:00 to 5:00 or 6:00 or longer if we had to. It was painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for most of the trainees, it's intensive language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have to worry about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.0054729213418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from Puerto Rico, I traveled to Texas. We did like a one or two day, I think it was like one day orientation. And we left the next morning. So I remember we stayed there in the hotel in Texas, in Houston, Texas, and I think I was a little intimidated again. I feel like my English, I was worried about my English. It was funny. That was like the only concern honestly. I was like, I know Spanish, I don't care, and I don't have a hard time socializing with people, but I was like, am I going to like? I was wondering if the training was going to be super technical or not. But anyway, I was just going with the flow and then that one day. Like, it wasn't a training, it was like a, I don't know, orientation, right? And then the next day we went to Costa Rica. And that's when my training started. And training was intense. Training was too long. It was like three months, right? But then it was like from 8:00 to 5:00 or 6:00 or longer if we had to. It was painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for most of the trainees, it's intensive language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have to worry about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Spanish class was fun class for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could probably helped with, help tutor the other guys."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.006081023713111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have to worry about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Spanish class was fun class for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could probably helped with, help tutor the other guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there and they categorized us or level. I was, of course, superior. But then there was another, there was one other girl who was Spanish was also superior or advanced, because I guess she kind of had an accent, but her Spanish was perfect. But so we had two days of technical training and three days of Spanish and culture training. And of course, for me. Everyone hated Spanish training. But I was like, this is my thing. Because I was just talking with a professor and just having fun. And my assignments, I would get it done like that, in the same day. So super fun Spanish class. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting that they didn't maybe have a different track for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.117867804125678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Spanish class was fun class for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could probably helped with, help tutor the other guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there and they categorized us or level. I was, of course, superior. But then there was another, there was one other girl who was Spanish was also superior or advanced, because I guess she kind of had an accent, but her Spanish was perfect. But so we had two days of technical training and three days of Spanish and culture training. And of course, for me. Everyone hated Spanish training. But I was like, this is my thing. Because I was just talking with a professor and just having fun. And my assignments, I would get it done like that, in the same day. So super fun Spanish class. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting that they didn't maybe have a different track for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of just spinning your wheels there in Spanish class."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.35318644902853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there and they categorized us or level. I was, of course, superior. But then there was another, there was one other girl who was Spanish was also superior or advanced, because I guess she kind of had an accent, but her Spanish was perfect. But so we had two days of technical training and three days of Spanish and culture training. And of course, for me. Everyone hated Spanish training. But I was like, this is my thing. Because I was just talking with a professor and just having fun. And my assignments, I would get it done like that, in the same day. So super fun Spanish class. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting that they didn't maybe have a different track for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of just spinning your wheels there in Spanish class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our class was kind of different. Because I guess depending on your level, they will teach you certain things. So for us, there were three girls in my, two other girls in my class, so we didn't learn how to write or the verbs because we already knew Spanish pretty well. So I think our Spanish class was more cultural words and how it changes because I still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the local customs and things like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.6146516100317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of just spinning your wheels there in Spanish class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our class was kind of different. Because I guess depending on your level, they will teach you certain things. So for us, there were three girls in my, two other girls in my class, so we didn't learn how to write or the verbs because we already knew Spanish pretty well. So I think our Spanish class was more cultural words and how it changes because I still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the local customs and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because my Spanish, it is different from Costa Rican Spanish, like they're different. And my pronunciation is different. So yeah, it was less informal. I think it was more informal and more like about the culture, lingo, and all of that. So it was fun for sure. It was super fun Spanish class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's back up and tell me when you first landed in the country, how did that feel and what was your impression? Do you remember your first impression of the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.794057344479667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our class was kind of different. Because I guess depending on your level, they will teach you certain things. So for us, there were three girls in my, two other girls in my class, so we didn't learn how to write or the verbs because we already knew Spanish pretty well. So I think our Spanish class was more cultural words and how it changes because I still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the local customs and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because my Spanish, it is different from Costa Rican Spanish, like they're different. And my pronunciation is different. So yeah, it was less informal. I think it was more informal and more like about the culture, lingo, and all of that. So it was fun for sure. It was super fun Spanish class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's back up and tell me when you first landed in the country, how did that feel and what was your impression? Do you remember your first impression of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was cloudy. I was like, I need sun because, you know, Costa Rica was like, it's going to be sunny every day, but it was super cloudy because we arrived in San Jose. And San Jose is cloudy usually and rainy. And I was sick because of the climate, because me going from 90 degree, 95, to like then Houston and then Costa Rica, that, I was so sick. But it was super cloudy and rainy, and I remember being in the little van and I was like, this does not look cute at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a little disappointed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.77117482719963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because my Spanish, it is different from Costa Rican Spanish, like they're different. And my pronunciation is different. So yeah, it was less informal. I think it was more informal and more like about the culture, lingo, and all of that. So it was fun for sure. It was super fun Spanish class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's back up and tell me when you first landed in the country, how did that feel and what was your impression? Do you remember your first impression of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was cloudy. I was like, I need sun because, you know, Costa Rica was like, it's going to be sunny every day, but it was super cloudy because we arrived in San Jose. And San Jose is cloudy usually and rainy. And I was sick because of the climate, because me going from 90 degree, 95, to like then Houston and then Costa Rica, that, I was so sick. But it was super cloudy and rainy, and I remember being in the little van and I was like, this does not look cute at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a little disappointed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. Because Costa Rica, like San Jose, is not a beautiful city. It has beautiful architecture in different places. But like Costa Rica is not, San Jose is different areas. So I was like, OK, everything was super gray. And in the city, San Jose is not a really clean city, so I was a little worried. But then as we didn't stay in San Jose that night, we went to a place a city, a province called Cartago, and there was more nature there. So that was like, OK, it's getting better. But it was so cold. And I think, I don't know if it was my fault or what, but I didn't know like weather wise, like what specific weather was. I don't know. I thought it was going to be sunny, right? So Cartago was cold. It was so cold. It was insane. We were all cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you did your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.634638696888477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was cloudy. I was like, I need sun because, you know, Costa Rica was like, it's going to be sunny every day, but it was super cloudy because we arrived in San Jose. And San Jose is cloudy usually and rainy. And I was sick because of the climate, because me going from 90 degree, 95, to like then Houston and then Costa Rica, that, I was so sick. But it was super cloudy and rainy, and I remember being in the little van and I was like, this does not look cute at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a little disappointed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. Because Costa Rica, like San Jose, is not a beautiful city. It has beautiful architecture in different places. But like Costa Rica is not, San Jose is different areas. So I was like, OK, everything was super gray. And in the city, San Jose is not a really clean city, so I was a little worried. But then as we didn't stay in San Jose that night, we went to a place a city, a province called Cartago, and there was more nature there. So that was like, OK, it's getting better. But it was so cold. And I think, I don't know if it was my fault or what, but I didn't know like weather wise, like what specific weather was. I don't know. I thought it was going to be sunny, right? So Cartago was cold. It was so cold. It was insane. We were all cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you did your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first, like three days or something. And then in Cartago. And then from there we moved to the other province called Heredia. And that was where we had our three months training. And Heredia is pretty cold too. So we were up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were there in training, how many people were in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.59404299654275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. Because Costa Rica, like San Jose, is not a beautiful city. It has beautiful architecture in different places. But like Costa Rica is not, San Jose is different areas. So I was like, OK, everything was super gray. And in the city, San Jose is not a really clean city, so I was a little worried. But then as we didn't stay in San Jose that night, we went to a place a city, a province called Cartago, and there was more nature there. So that was like, OK, it's getting better. But it was so cold. And I think, I don't know if it was my fault or what, but I didn't know like weather wise, like what specific weather was. I don't know. I thought it was going to be sunny, right? So Cartago was cold. It was so cold. It was insane. We were all cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you did your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first, like three days or something. And then in Cartago. And then from there we moved to the other province called Heredia. And that was where we had our three months training. And Heredia is pretty cold too. So we were up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were there in training, how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my cohort, I think maybe like 22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you started to bond with some of your."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.2156033294919455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first, like three days or something. And then in Cartago. And then from there we moved to the other province called Heredia. And that was where we had our three months training. And Heredia is pretty cold too. So we were up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were there in training, how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my cohort, I think maybe like 22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you started to bond with some of your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I get it. I feel like for me that I get attached to like two people. So when I first arrived in Houston, I shared a room with my now best friend Taina. And to my surprise, she's half Puerto Rican and half Dominican. So I'm like, OK, you're going to be my best friend. So we bonded in a second. My best friend, for sure. And then, yeah, I think once. I've also I think I was a different person back then, I think I'm a different person now. Because back then I was more protective of myself and I was like, I don't know who should I trust here. And there's differences between me being Puerto Rican and being born and raised in an island from them all being from the States. So it was, I felt a little like out of place, because when we were having those informal conversations they have, they use different words, right? And they had different games, different songs. So I was like, I feel like my cultural experience then was to with them. I was like, how do I connect with these people because they're singing some songs that I don't even know? So that was definitely interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it would be because you had the continental U.S. culture to deal with and then the culture of your assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.795114810546606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my cohort, I think maybe like 22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you started to bond with some of your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I get it. I feel like for me that I get attached to like two people. So when I first arrived in Houston, I shared a room with my now best friend Taina. And to my surprise, she's half Puerto Rican and half Dominican. So I'm like, OK, you're going to be my best friend. So we bonded in a second. My best friend, for sure. And then, yeah, I think once. I've also I think I was a different person back then, I think I'm a different person now. Because back then I was more protective of myself and I was like, I don't know who should I trust here. And there's differences between me being Puerto Rican and being born and raised in an island from them all being from the States. So it was, I felt a little like out of place, because when we were having those informal conversations they have, they use different words, right? And they had different games, different songs. So I was like, I feel like my cultural experience then was to with them. I was like, how do I connect with these people because they're singing some songs that I don't even know? So that was definitely interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it would be because you had the continental U.S. culture to deal with and then the culture of your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I think my host family, I only spoke Spanish. So we just got along like in a second, right? So I didn't have no problem. My whole family, by the way, amazing. And my host sister's going to visit me at Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lived with a family during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4390164561628955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I get it. I feel like for me that I get attached to like two people. So when I first arrived in Houston, I shared a room with my now best friend Taina. And to my surprise, she's half Puerto Rican and half Dominican. So I'm like, OK, you're going to be my best friend. So we bonded in a second. My best friend, for sure. And then, yeah, I think once. I've also I think I was a different person back then, I think I'm a different person now. Because back then I was more protective of myself and I was like, I don't know who should I trust here. And there's differences between me being Puerto Rican and being born and raised in an island from them all being from the States. So it was, I felt a little like out of place, because when we were having those informal conversations they have, they use different words, right? And they had different games, different songs. So I was like, I feel like my cultural experience then was to with them. I was like, how do I connect with these people because they're singing some songs that I don't even know? So that was definitely interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it would be because you had the continental U.S. culture to deal with and then the culture of your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I think my host family, I only spoke Spanish. So we just got along like in a second, right? So I didn't have no problem. My whole family, by the way, amazing. And my host sister's going to visit me at Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lived with a family during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. All the training, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.154462729069884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I think my host family, I only spoke Spanish. So we just got along like in a second, right? So I didn't have no problem. My whole family, by the way, amazing. And my host sister's going to visit me at Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lived with a family during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. All the training, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beautiful family, mom, dad and two daughters, and got along with them in a second. And again, like my host sister's going to visit me, we're going to go to Puerto Rico for Christmas. We bonded like strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is she your age or a little younger?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.727180810077649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. All the training, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beautiful family, mom, dad and two daughters, and got along with them in a second. And again, like my host sister's going to visit me, we're going to go to Puerto Rico for Christmas. We bonded like strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is she your age or a little younger?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 26 and I think she's like 22. So kind of like the same age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that'll be fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.36353423341961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beautiful family, mom, dad and two daughters, and got along with them in a second. And again, like my host sister's going to visit me, we're going to go to Puerto Rico for Christmas. We bonded like strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is she your age or a little younger?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 26 and I think she's like 22. So kind of like the same age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that'll be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. That was, I mean, for other volunteers, they had their experience. But I think for me, I loved my, and I love my host family from training. Awesome for sure. And I also kind of was a spoiled girl in my group because my house was nice. It was pretty fancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the community like? Was it a city or a village or small town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.070593592688456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 26 and I think she's like 22. So kind of like the same age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that'll be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. That was, I mean, for other volunteers, they had their experience. But I think for me, I loved my, and I love my host family from training. Awesome for sure. And I also kind of was a spoiled girl in my group because my house was nice. It was pretty fancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the community like? Was it a city or a village or small town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of city, yeah. Um yeah. We had everything there. Everything super accessible. So yeah, it was. I wouldn't call it a big city, but it was a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so not a real hardship. You had running water and electricity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.72912789220797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of city, yeah. Um yeah. We had everything there. Everything super accessible. So yeah, it was. I wouldn't call it a big city, but it was a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so not a real hardship. You had running water and electricity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The only thing that sucked was I didn't have a water heater, so you have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cold water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't cold water. It was freezing. I fainted a little bit. I like, whenever I shower, I was like, I needed to do my thing, like prepare emotionally. Because it was out of this world cold. It was ice cold water and they just, they shower like that. They were fine. It was just me. So that was an experience, but I had to shower so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's a, yeah, different technique that you have to learn."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.699030991342187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The only thing that sucked was I didn't have a water heater, so you have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cold water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't cold water. It was freezing. I fainted a little bit. I like, whenever I shower, I was like, I needed to do my thing, like prepare emotionally. Because it was out of this world cold. It was ice cold water and they just, they shower like that. They were fine. It was just me. So that was an experience, but I had to shower so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's a, yeah, different technique that you have to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, OK. So then, uh, what was a typical day like during your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.332256657046875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't cold water. It was freezing. I fainted a little bit. I like, whenever I shower, I was like, I needed to do my thing, like prepare emotionally. Because it was out of this world cold. It was ice cold water and they just, they shower like that. They were fine. It was just me. So that was an experience, but I had to shower so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's a, yeah, different technique that you have to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, OK. So then, uh, what was a typical day like during your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I would say, well, I will wake up like at 6:50 or 6:30 and then everything was so cold. Then just get ready. Had some breakfast. My host mom will always cook something that I could take the next day. So I took my lunch every day and she made good food. Spoiled girl for sure. She even made pizza from scratch. Thank you. And then I was just getting ready and take the bus with. I had a friend who lived super close to me, so we would just take the bus together. And then we would take the bus every morning and arrive at another city. But it was like next to our city. And walk to the place that we will, it was just like a community center. And we will all just be there like at 8:00 a.m. and start the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the volunteers weren't in the same neighborhood. They were scattered."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.817600811168981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I would say, well, I will wake up like at 6:50 or 6:30 and then everything was so cold. Then just get ready. Had some breakfast. My host mom will always cook something that I could take the next day. So I took my lunch every day and she made good food. Spoiled girl for sure. She even made pizza from scratch. Thank you. And then I was just getting ready and take the bus with. I had a friend who lived super close to me, so we would just take the bus together. And then we would take the bus every morning and arrive at another city. But it was like next to our city. And walk to the place that we will, it was just like a community center. And we will all just be there like at 8:00 a.m. and start the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the volunteers weren't in the same neighborhood. They were scattered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes. Like, you needed to take the bus to visit other people. You can't walk. Like I could walk to my friends. So I don't know. I don't know what the category I don't have. I don't think it's different cities, but maybe barrios. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Suburbs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Near but not walking distance. We had to take the bus. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you come together at this training center and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.241778679076646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes. Like, you needed to take the bus to visit other people. You can't walk. Like I could walk to my friends. So I don't know. I don't know what the category I don't have. I don't think it's different cities, but maybe barrios. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Suburbs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Near but not walking distance. We had to take the bus. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you come together at this training center and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, spend an entire day there, literally the entire day. It was exhausting. Oh my gosh, we were uber grumpy for sure. We were, because it was too long. I mean, I can't, you know, human beings. I don't know white people. Our model of working is so traditional, it hasn't changed, and we need to be in a room from 8:00 to 6:00 p.m. Come on. You lose me after noon. After lunch, I'm gone. So we were exhausted, all of us. They probably hated us a little bit because we were just like complaining. Because it was just a lot of info. Info, info, info, info. Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on top of the language, you were in community youth development programs. So which is kind of open ended, right? So did they have specific?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.713087421196272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Near but not walking distance. We had to take the bus. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you come together at this training center and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, spend an entire day there, literally the entire day. It was exhausting. Oh my gosh, we were uber grumpy for sure. We were, because it was too long. I mean, I can't, you know, human beings. I don't know white people. Our model of working is so traditional, it hasn't changed, and we need to be in a room from 8:00 to 6:00 p.m. Come on. You lose me after noon. After lunch, I'm gone. So we were exhausted, all of us. They probably hated us a little bit because we were just like complaining. Because it was just a lot of info. Info, info, info, info. Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on top of the language, you were in community youth development programs. So which is kind of open ended, right? So did they have specific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skills?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, or things that they wanted to impart with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.125652690218081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, spend an entire day there, literally the entire day. It was exhausting. Oh my gosh, we were uber grumpy for sure. We were, because it was too long. I mean, I can't, you know, human beings. I don't know white people. Our model of working is so traditional, it hasn't changed, and we need to be in a room from 8:00 to 6:00 p.m. Come on. You lose me after noon. After lunch, I'm gone. So we were exhausted, all of us. They probably hated us a little bit because we were just like complaining. Because it was just a lot of info. Info, info, info, info. Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on top of the language, you were in community youth development programs. So which is kind of open ended, right? So did they have specific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skills?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, or things that they wanted to impart with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so for us, for example, we had to go to schools sometimes and do like little workshops and practice. So because I know other groups now, they usually have like TEFL and SED together. But for my cohort it was just youth development, so we would just always be together, except for Spanish class. But they did some specific training to us, like really regarding like the youth resources that were in Costa Rica, going to schools, getting, you know, but getting to know the education system there. Um yeah, because we. And then training about like health and safety, so different things. Yeah. But it was two, yeah, two days a week, the technical, and then three the Spanish and cultural training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.584058544686756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skills?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, or things that they wanted to impart with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so for us, for example, we had to go to schools sometimes and do like little workshops and practice. So because I know other groups now, they usually have like TEFL and SED together. But for my cohort it was just youth development, so we would just always be together, except for Spanish class. But they did some specific training to us, like really regarding like the youth resources that were in Costa Rica, going to schools, getting, you know, but getting to know the education system there. Um yeah, because we. And then training about like health and safety, so different things. Yeah. But it was two, yeah, two days a week, the technical, and then three the Spanish and cultural training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys, while you were in training, did you get any breaks where you can just go off and have fun with your friends or anything? Like for the weekend or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.659331536650315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys, while you were in training, did you get any breaks where you can just go off and have fun with your friends or anything? Like for the weekend or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depending on your host family, because we were like, we didn't have much money, right? So I think and we did sometimes went to like the river or just like something close, but we were just so exhausted that we didn't do anything like. We did travel after training, though, and we were like more relaxed. But in training, it was just like, it was so much time. We just exhausted on the weekend. So it depended really on your host family because my host family, they did that sometimes, so I would just go out with them. But I think as a group in training, we probably maybe went out like no more than four times, which sucks. Because also they scared us and they were like, you should not go out and you should not drink. Literally, they say no. Apparently, because other groups, they ruined it for us. So we were good, a good group. We didn't go out. Because we had a lot of bars there. We could go out after training. That was the thing, apparently, but we were like, scared. We were like, oh, I don't think we should go because we're going to be those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And maybe that was one of the advantages of staying with a host family rather than everybody staying in a barracks or something because you would spend the evenings with your family instead of just hanging out at the bar with the rest of the group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. So it was a lot of hanging out with their host families, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then so you finished training and then where was your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.517693255123846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. So it was a lot of hanging out with their host families, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then so you finished training and then where was your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was assigned in a province called Guanacaste, and that was the place I wanted to go. So I was like, really thankful for that. It was a rural, semi-rural community about like two thousand people and it was, in a bus, it was maybe like five hours away from the capital, so it wasn't that bad. And it was like one bus that I only had to take. So that was an advantage. And I was, yeah, I arrived there with another host family and I was like, uh, because I had fun with my host family. But like, you had to live six months now with your host family before you could live by yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But later on, you were allowed to live by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Was it for safety?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7974369501376066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was assigned in a province called Guanacaste, and that was the place I wanted to go. So I was like, really thankful for that. It was a rural, semi-rural community about like two thousand people and it was, in a bus, it was maybe like five hours away from the capital, so it wasn't that bad. And it was like one bus that I only had to take. So that was an advantage. And I was, yeah, I arrived there with another host family and I was like, uh, because I had fun with my host family. But like, you had to live six months now with your host family before you could live by yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But later on, you were allowed to live by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Was it for safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently, yeah. Yeah, they were super straight with that because I know some volunteers wanted to live by themselves, like after three months, and they said no. That was, I was also lucky and I had a good host family. But I'm an adult. I wanted to live by myself and they were so strict about that. But anyway, I lived with them the six months and then they had like a small apartment like behind their house. I just moved there. But I needed to wait six months, which was insane. But my host mom cooked for me every day. That was fun. I was definitely spoiled for sure, and I had Wi-Fi, that was pretty fancy. And also a bike. Um, but it was super hot. Guanacaste is dry and it's hot and it's weird weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't coastal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.108263277930674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Was it for safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently, yeah. Yeah, they were super straight with that because I know some volunteers wanted to live by themselves, like after three months, and they said no. That was, I was also lucky and I had a good host family. But I'm an adult. I wanted to live by myself and they were so strict about that. But anyway, I lived with them the six months and then they had like a small apartment like behind their house. I just moved there. But I needed to wait six months, which was insane. But my host mom cooked for me every day. That was fun. I was definitely spoiled for sure, and I had Wi-Fi, that was pretty fancy. And also a bike. Um, but it was super hot. Guanacaste is dry and it's hot and it's weird weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't coastal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was. No, it wasn't coastal, no. But I wasn't that far from the beach though. Like if I could go to the mountains I could probably see the beach. So in a bus? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you say the town was about two thousand people. What were the houses like? Were they modern houses? Electricity and running water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8373620715193506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was. No, it wasn't coastal, no. But I wasn't that far from the beach though. Like if I could go to the mountains I could probably see the beach. So in a bus? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you say the town was about two thousand people. What were the houses like? Were they modern houses? Electricity and running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them, they did. I think where I lived, most of the houses were right. It was more like an outside of where I lived, that they were in more like poverty, but where I lived. It was like this town, the center of town, so houses were pretty normal. Water, people have Wi-Fi, you know. I would say, like medium, how do you say like? Many class?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Middle class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Middle class, yeah, it was middle class for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did you work at a school or you were assigned to a school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.263735635021501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them, they did. I think where I lived, most of the houses were right. It was more like an outside of where I lived, that they were in more like poverty, but where I lived. It was like this town, the center of town, so houses were pretty normal. Water, people have Wi-Fi, you know. I would say, like medium, how do you say like? Many class?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Middle class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Middle class, yeah, it was middle class for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did you work at a school or you were assigned to a school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all of us had partners, project partners, in schools. I worked in a high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A local counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.263871154347531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all of us had partners, project partners, in schools. I worked in a high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A local counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I work in the local high school and then we were free to choose our project partners. So we were free to choose other partners, and honestly, my school was not pretty. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my school was not pretty, and also I thought. So Peace Corps, my service description when I applied, it didn't say you're going to be working in a school, that's going to be your thing. It said. I applied for a position in sexual education because that was my experience in. So literally, nowhere there it says you're going to be working in a high school. And I think we all say that like, hey, we were not expecting to work in a high school most of the time. So, and they admit that, OK, that's our fault, because that was their expectation of, like, we needed to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you think you were going to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1226119906307153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I reached out to other project partners, and then I mostly worked with the local woman's office. They had a woman's office there, and I love her so much. Flordelis. She's my best friend, too. I still talk to her. I was talking to her like two days ago. Um, she was my main project partner because I loved more doing stuff for like community, you know, I think cause the school environment there, it was toxic. It wasn't. It wasn't really good. I don't know. Like they were not, they didn't understand sustainable change. They didn't understand peace and justice and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you talking about the faculty, the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The faculty. I think the students were fine. I mean, you know, like any other teenager. But I think the faculty were not committed to just creating sustainable change, committed to life skills, to self-esteem, and to mental health and to supporting their students more than just beside academically. I don't think. And of course, I know now most of the things, I know better now. But back then I was trying to. It was a little frustrating because I was, I don't know, I didn't know what to do. I was younger and I was, I didn't. I wasn't expecting for me, literally, having to take the lead on everything. But that's basically what you have to do when you get in, you have to be confident and move people around. But I didn't know better. Now I know better. But yeah, I think my. So I kept working with a high school, but I think what I enjoy the most was working with the community, working with the woman's office, with the local clinic, health clinic. I think those were great project partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you kind of expanded your scope?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just found out about these things and started doing them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4695688784785723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The faculty. I think the students were fine. I mean, you know, like any other teenager. But I think the faculty were not committed to just creating sustainable change, committed to life skills, to self-esteem, and to mental health and to supporting their students more than just beside academically. I don't think. And of course, I know now most of the things, I know better now. But back then I was trying to. It was a little frustrating because I was, I don't know, I didn't know what to do. I was younger and I was, I didn't. I wasn't expecting for me, literally, having to take the lead on everything. But that's basically what you have to do when you get in, you have to be confident and move people around. But I didn't know better. Now I know better. But yeah, I think my. So I kept working with a high school, but I think what I enjoy the most was working with the community, working with the woman's office, with the local clinic, health clinic. I think those were great project partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you kind of expanded your scope?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just found out about these things and started doing them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think most of my meaningful work were with the other organizations because it was. And it was funny because all of the other. It was a small town, so everyone knew each other, so we would meet. They had like a local network that will meet like every twice a month or something from service providers for that community. And we were all frustrated with the high school because they, the high school, it was just, it wasn't a good environment to work in, like the faculty that were not committed. And then the principal got changed and the new principal came in and he does not care about life skills at all. He does care about grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this being kind of a middle class community, people were literate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.283418368492065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think most of my meaningful work were with the other organizations because it was. And it was funny because all of the other. It was a small town, so everyone knew each other, so we would meet. They had like a local network that will meet like every twice a month or something from service providers for that community. And we were all frustrated with the high school because they, the high school, it was just, it wasn't a good environment to work in, like the faculty that were not committed. And then the principal got changed and the new principal came in and he does not care about life skills at all. He does care about grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this being kind of a middle class community, people were literate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And maybe middle class, I wouldn't maybe use that word because we have a different understanding in the U.S., but I think for Costa Rica, middle class meant that they were not hungry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, that they could go to school and have shoes, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to school and their parents probably went to school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.75935374276896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And maybe middle class, I wouldn't maybe use that word because we have a different understanding in the U.S., but I think for Costa Rica, middle class meant that they were not hungry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, that they could go to school and have shoes, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to school and their parents probably went to school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of their parents went to school, but none of the parents actually went to college, for example, and maybe one of them worked. The other one didn't work. So, yeah, it's not the same understanding we have here. But people like, yeah, they have food on the table. Maybe one of them had a car. If not, they were going to take the bus. That's normal. But yeah, I was disappointed with my high school. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I was like, how do I make these people want to take on this, right? Because the idea is for it to be sustainable. Like I could do many things and I did many workshops at first because they just wanted to me to do workshops, but then I was like, OK, this is not going to be sustainable because I'm going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you leave, then what happens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.177059714187734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, that they could go to school and have shoes, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to school and their parents probably went to school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of their parents went to school, but none of the parents actually went to college, for example, and maybe one of them worked. The other one didn't work. So, yeah, it's not the same understanding we have here. But people like, yeah, they have food on the table. Maybe one of them had a car. If not, they were going to take the bus. That's normal. But yeah, I was disappointed with my high school. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I was like, how do I make these people want to take on this, right? Because the idea is for it to be sustainable. Like I could do many things and I did many workshops at first because they just wanted to me to do workshops, but then I was like, OK, this is not going to be sustainable because I'm going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you leave, then what happens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happens? And I think Peace Corps and my training did emphasize that sustainable, sustainable. But it's hard to create sustainable projects with. Also because I was young, I was a woman, and they don't take us as seriously. I think a guy's experience is different than girls' because I talked with my friends and they were like, we just go there and professors are harassing us and trying to like, you know, be cute with us and flirting. Really, I don't. I'm not. I don't. I'm not here for that. So it was being a girl, being young, being 21, 22. It was difficult for them to get me seriously and in the high school environment, though, because I feel like outside it was different. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it was different for other service providers than the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were these other groups that you got involved with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.641177460208593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of their parents went to school, but none of the parents actually went to college, for example, and maybe one of them worked. The other one didn't work. So, yeah, it's not the same understanding we have here. But people like, yeah, they have food on the table. Maybe one of them had a car. If not, they were going to take the bus. That's normal. But yeah, I was disappointed with my high school. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I was like, how do I make these people want to take on this, right? Because the idea is for it to be sustainable. Like I could do many things and I did many workshops at first because they just wanted to me to do workshops, but then I was like, OK, this is not going to be sustainable because I'm going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you leave, then what happens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happens? And I think Peace Corps and my training did emphasize that sustainable, sustainable. But it's hard to create sustainable projects with. Also because I was young, I was a woman, and they don't take us as seriously. I think a guy's experience is different than girls' because I talked with my friends and they were like, we just go there and professors are harassing us and trying to like, you know, be cute with us and flirting. Really, I don't. I'm not. I don't. I'm not here for that. So it was being a girl, being young, being 21, 22. It was difficult for them to get me seriously and in the high school environment, though, because I feel like outside it was different. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it was different for other service providers than the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were these other groups that you got involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, for example, the woman's office, the local clinic. Uh, I'm trying to remember their names. The municipality, the local municipality there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be like the city government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.156863844676214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happens? And I think Peace Corps and my training did emphasize that sustainable, sustainable. But it's hard to create sustainable projects with. Also because I was young, I was a woman, and they don't take us as seriously. I think a guy's experience is different than girls' because I talked with my friends and they were like, we just go there and professors are harassing us and trying to like, you know, be cute with us and flirting. Really, I don't. I'm not. I don't. I'm not here for that. So it was being a girl, being young, being 21, 22. It was difficult for them to get me seriously and in the high school environment, though, because I feel like outside it was different. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it was different for other service providers than the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were these other groups that you got involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, for example, the woman's office, the local clinic. Uh, I'm trying to remember their names. The municipality, the local municipality there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be like the city government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Um, the different like spiritual groups and another, what was it called? Just any service provider. It was so many, any service the city would get. I would just go with once, you know, to their meeting and check it out. And it was cool because that was part of this network. But I forgot who their leaders, what's the name? But the network that I was working with that was like the hub for every service provider. So I was aware of what was happening locally, and we were all literally just trying to work in the high school because it was so difficult. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there for your entire service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.729848716306904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, for example, the woman's office, the local clinic. Uh, I'm trying to remember their names. The municipality, the local municipality there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which would be like the city government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Um, the different like spiritual groups and another, what was it called? Just any service provider. It was so many, any service the city would get. I would just go with once, you know, to their meeting and check it out. And it was cool because that was part of this network. But I forgot who their leaders, what's the name? But the network that I was working with that was like the hub for every service provider. So I was aware of what was happening locally, and we were all literally just trying to work in the high school because it was so difficult. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there for your entire service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.255387462563227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Um, the different like spiritual groups and another, what was it called? Just any service provider. It was so many, any service the city would get. I would just go with once, you know, to their meeting and check it out. And it was cool because that was part of this network. But I forgot who their leaders, what's the name? But the network that I was working with that was like the hub for every service provider. So I was aware of what was happening locally, and we were all literally just trying to work in the high school because it was so difficult. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there for your entire service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I divided my, I went to the high school like two days a week and then two other days to the municipality and then the woman's office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were free to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.728208291736919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I divided my, I went to the high school like two days a week and then two other days to the municipality and then the woman's office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were free to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was amazing. Yeah, they gave me. They were like, as long as you go like at least one or two days at the high school, we will be good with that. So I liked that flexibility that I could just create my own schedule. I think that was nice and focus on the things that I like more. Because I'm still a human being, you know? Because it's funny because like, you go there and I feel like people don't think you have needs and people just talk to me about themselves. And but I was, for me to take care of myself will be just doing the things that I want to do, that I enjoyed, which was mainly working with a woman's office, with a health clinic. Because I think, in my experience, it's so easy to get lost in their culture, right? Because that's where we were for there to build relationships and cross-cultural experience. But I think at one point it was just overwhelming because sometimes people would say, hi, you know, but they don't really sit with you. How are you doing? Right? They don't. Yeah, they don't see that. They just think we're just there to work and work and provide things for them. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have developed some personal relationships with people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.253564768596576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I divided my, I went to the high school like two days a week and then two other days to the municipality and then the woman's office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were free to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was amazing. Yeah, they gave me. They were like, as long as you go like at least one or two days at the high school, we will be good with that. So I liked that flexibility that I could just create my own schedule. I think that was nice and focus on the things that I like more. Because I'm still a human being, you know? Because it's funny because like, you go there and I feel like people don't think you have needs and people just talk to me about themselves. And but I was, for me to take care of myself will be just doing the things that I want to do, that I enjoyed, which was mainly working with a woman's office, with a health clinic. Because I think, in my experience, it's so easy to get lost in their culture, right? Because that's where we were for there to build relationships and cross-cultural experience. But I think at one point it was just overwhelming because sometimes people would say, hi, you know, but they don't really sit with you. How are you doing? Right? They don't. Yeah, they don't see that. They just think we're just there to work and work and provide things for them. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have developed some personal relationships with people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of these people you worked with and made a lot of friends there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.837294187329529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was amazing. Yeah, they gave me. They were like, as long as you go like at least one or two days at the high school, we will be good with that. So I liked that flexibility that I could just create my own schedule. I think that was nice and focus on the things that I like more. Because I'm still a human being, you know? Because it's funny because like, you go there and I feel like people don't think you have needs and people just talk to me about themselves. And but I was, for me to take care of myself will be just doing the things that I want to do, that I enjoyed, which was mainly working with a woman's office, with a health clinic. Because I think, in my experience, it's so easy to get lost in their culture, right? Because that's where we were for there to build relationships and cross-cultural experience. But I think at one point it was just overwhelming because sometimes people would say, hi, you know, but they don't really sit with you. How are you doing? Right? They don't. Yeah, they don't see that. They just think we're just there to work and work and provide things for them. So that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have developed some personal relationships with people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of these people you worked with and made a lot of friends there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. I mean, that was the most important thing. If you tell me Peace Corps relationships, I built so many amazing, long lasting relationships. Like I'm going to go to a wedding on Christmas of one of my friends. So I definitely got to know so amazing people that it was just like, people that basically adopted me as their daughter. And that's super meaningful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's not an uncommon that people maybe don't find their job so rewarding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.485882430366143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of these people you worked with and made a lot of friends there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. I mean, that was the most important thing. If you tell me Peace Corps relationships, I built so many amazing, long lasting relationships. Like I'm going to go to a wedding on Christmas of one of my friends. So I definitely got to know so amazing people that it was just like, people that basically adopted me as their daughter. And that's super meaningful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's not an uncommon that people maybe don't find their job so rewarding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the relationships they build with the people in the community are what really has the lasting impact."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.206536033740159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. I mean, that was the most important thing. If you tell me Peace Corps relationships, I built so many amazing, long lasting relationships. Like I'm going to go to a wedding on Christmas of one of my friends. So I definitely got to know so amazing people that it was just like, people that basically adopted me as their daughter. And that's super meaningful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's not an uncommon that people maybe don't find their job so rewarding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the relationships they build with the people in the community are what really has the lasting impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's how you felt?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.896958066345876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's how you felt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. For sure. And I think maybe my work, I wasn't like, if you asked me, were you satisfied with your work, professional aspect of the service? And I'm like, you know, I've learned to be satisfied now because I feel like I wanted to do so many things that I couldn't do. But I think I'm at peace with it now. And I'm like, you know, you never know that people that you influence, right? The people that you said something that it's going to stick to them forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just humble myself and I'm like, do you define your own success? And if I'm defining my success was in building those relationships that I know they're going to last forever. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you didn't look and talk like these other Peace Corps volunteers that came from the continental United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.88550896260653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. For sure. And I think maybe my work, I wasn't like, if you asked me, were you satisfied with your work, professional aspect of the service? And I'm like, you know, I've learned to be satisfied now because I feel like I wanted to do so many things that I couldn't do. But I think I'm at peace with it now. And I'm like, you know, you never know that people that you influence, right? The people that you said something that it's going to stick to them forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just humble myself and I'm like, do you define your own success? And if I'm defining my success was in building those relationships that I know they're going to last forever. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you didn't look and talk like these other Peace Corps volunteers that came from the continental United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't have blue eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do think you think you were, were you treated a little differently you think? Or maybe they had trouble understanding why you were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.154949336551269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't have blue eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do think you think you were, were you treated a little differently you think? Or maybe they had trouble understanding why you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, definitely they expect when they think about Americans, they expect someone who has blue eyes, blond hair. But they didn't treat me differently. They were excited that I was from Puerto Rico because it was Latin America, and Puerto Rico was known for the music, right? We have a lot of artists, so they knew what Puerto Rico was and they thought I knew all the artists. So it was fun. Then they always tell me, oh, you have such a beautiful accent. Like, how is your country? How does your island look and how is the culture there? So I think they were excited to get to know me. So that was fun. Um, but yeah, I don't think I got really like, oh Nina, she's not a gringa or an American. I think they were kind of excited to get to know me. So that was fun. They always make fun of my accent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. Um, so but they didn't treat me with the magic that they treat the blue-eyed people, right? Like, they're like, excited about my own culture. But I think in that they forgot that I was coming from the Peace Corps, which is a U.S. program, you know? Yeah. They were like, oh, you're just one person that's here to work, you know? Yeah, I don't think they treated me as the Peace Corps volunteer. They treat me as someone who is just there to work with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so after your six months with the host family, you finally got your own house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.838832596168077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, definitely they expect when they think about Americans, they expect someone who has blue eyes, blond hair. But they didn't treat me differently. They were excited that I was from Puerto Rico because it was Latin America, and Puerto Rico was known for the music, right? We have a lot of artists, so they knew what Puerto Rico was and they thought I knew all the artists. So it was fun. Then they always tell me, oh, you have such a beautiful accent. Like, how is your country? How does your island look and how is the culture there? So I think they were excited to get to know me. So that was fun. Um, but yeah, I don't think I got really like, oh Nina, she's not a gringa or an American. I think they were kind of excited to get to know me. So that was fun. They always make fun of my accent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. Um, so but they didn't treat me with the magic that they treat the blue-eyed people, right? Like, they're like, excited about my own culture. But I think in that they forgot that I was coming from the Peace Corps, which is a U.S. program, you know? Yeah. They were like, oh, you're just one person that's here to work, you know? Yeah, I don't think they treated me as the Peace Corps volunteer. They treat me as someone who is just there to work with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so after your six months with the host family, you finally got your own house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was in the backyard. It was basically in the backyard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's the same family but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.598702884631196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. Um, so but they didn't treat me with the magic that they treat the blue-eyed people, right? Like, they're like, excited about my own culture. But I think in that they forgot that I was coming from the Peace Corps, which is a U.S. program, you know? Yeah. They were like, oh, you're just one person that's here to work, you know? Yeah, I don't think they treated me as the Peace Corps volunteer. They treat me as someone who is just there to work with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so after your six months with the host family, you finally got your own house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was in the backyard. It was basically in the backyard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's the same family but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved from the main house to the back house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.381114672384193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved from the main house to the back house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Um, it wasn't a cute apartment, but I was just like any need my own because, you know, when you live with a host family, you need to socialize with them every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's exhausting, come on. Your personal time, you just don't want to talk. So I just moved there and I didn't stay there my entire service, because then I met this lady who had this amazing house and lived by herself. And then I moved with her, which was a mistake. But I learned. Because she was a little crazy. But I was like, I'm not going to move again. She was just, she was a control freak for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was a local person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.820182621183147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. From these amazing family who are Puerto Rican. So they were like, we got you. The Grillo- Marxuach family. They're amazing. And they offered to cover the other 50 percent plus more, stipend for me to live here. So I have zero loans thanks to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am living, I'm spoiled, I'm living my life. But I'm saying it's because I'm very I'm such a spiritual person. I do, and I think God has control of everything, and I always try to put it out there to the universe. Words of affirmation. And I try to stay really positive. And just, I mean, after I got, I applied, got the 50 percent and then the full tuition, I was like, I mean, I have to come here, I have to. And I remember getting that email. I literally started crying because I'm like, you know, loans. You can be a slave for your student loans forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was blessed enough in undergraduate that I didn't have to take any loans. I could pay for my bachelor's degree. So I was like, oh, I don't want to take a huge loan because this program, it's like forty thousand dollars or more, I don't know. So full scholarship, I mean, it could get. And I think it's because of, you know, peace studies and Peace Corps. I think everything just aligned, because we were talking like, would I be here if it wasn't for Peace Corps? I don't know. I don't think so. Because I was just going to keep. I studied psychology, so I was just going to become a psychologist, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might be working at a clinic in San Juan."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.577980690203496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am living, I'm spoiled, I'm living my life. But I'm saying it's because I'm very I'm such a spiritual person. I do, and I think God has control of everything, and I always try to put it out there to the universe. Words of affirmation. And I try to stay really positive. And just, I mean, after I got, I applied, got the 50 percent and then the full tuition, I was like, I mean, I have to come here, I have to. And I remember getting that email. I literally started crying because I'm like, you know, loans. You can be a slave for your student loans forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was blessed enough in undergraduate that I didn't have to take any loans. I could pay for my bachelor's degree. So I was like, oh, I don't want to take a huge loan because this program, it's like forty thousand dollars or more, I don't know. So full scholarship, I mean, it could get. And I think it's because of, you know, peace studies and Peace Corps. I think everything just aligned, because we were talking like, would I be here if it wasn't for Peace Corps? I don't know. I don't think so. Because I was just going to keep. I studied psychology, so I was just going to become a psychologist, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might be working at a clinic in San Juan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, probably. And have tons of student loans. But I've never been here in San Diego before, and I'd say, well, I already did Costa Rica. I think I can survive anything. So, yeah, I mean, now I'm here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have hot water here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.41997854467055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was blessed enough in undergraduate that I didn't have to take any loans. I could pay for my bachelor's degree. So I was like, oh, I don't want to take a huge loan because this program, it's like forty thousand dollars or more, I don't know. So full scholarship, I mean, it could get. And I think it's because of, you know, peace studies and Peace Corps. I think everything just aligned, because we were talking like, would I be here if it wasn't for Peace Corps? I don't know. I don't think so. Because I was just going to keep. I studied psychology, so I was just going to become a psychologist, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might be working at a clinic in San Juan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, probably. And have tons of student loans. But I've never been here in San Diego before, and I'd say, well, I already did Costa Rica. I think I can survive anything. So, yeah, I mean, now I'm here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have hot water here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do, and I live in graduate housing. I live by myself in San Diego. Oh, I mean, it doesn't, it can't get any better than that. And I thank Peace Corps every time someone asked me, oh, what got you here? What's a big experience that changed your life or that reflective stuff? Immediately, I think about Peace Corps. I am the person that I am today because of Peace Corps. Best experience of my life so far. I think it just awakened something that I could have never figured out by myself. Yeah, there's something about getting out of your comfort zone that if you allow it, it will transform you forever, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Getting back to your time in Costa Rica. Are there any really memorable experiences that you could think of? Like when you're sitting around with your friends and telling your stories, what's your favorite story to tell?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.35553171630061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, probably. And have tons of student loans. But I've never been here in San Diego before, and I'd say, well, I already did Costa Rica. I think I can survive anything. So, yeah, I mean, now I'm here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have hot water here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do, and I live in graduate housing. I live by myself in San Diego. Oh, I mean, it doesn't, it can't get any better than that. And I thank Peace Corps every time someone asked me, oh, what got you here? What's a big experience that changed your life or that reflective stuff? Immediately, I think about Peace Corps. I am the person that I am today because of Peace Corps. Best experience of my life so far. I think it just awakened something that I could have never figured out by myself. Yeah, there's something about getting out of your comfort zone that if you allow it, it will transform you forever, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Getting back to your time in Costa Rica. Are there any really memorable experiences that you could think of? Like when you're sitting around with your friends and telling your stories, what's your favorite story to tell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite stories are meeting my friend Flordelis, who was my project partner. She basically adopted me. I would eat lunch every day at her house. I don't know, there was something special about people feeding you. And it felt so genuine like she I didn't have to pay, you know? It just felt like she just literally wanted to do that for me. And I said, wow, there's good people out there. Because they just opened the doors of her house. I could be a, you know, she just trusted me. So that was pretty amazing for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she have a family there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.2839241292229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do, and I live in graduate housing. I live by myself in San Diego. Oh, I mean, it doesn't, it can't get any better than that. And I thank Peace Corps every time someone asked me, oh, what got you here? What's a big experience that changed your life or that reflective stuff? Immediately, I think about Peace Corps. I am the person that I am today because of Peace Corps. Best experience of my life so far. I think it just awakened something that I could have never figured out by myself. Yeah, there's something about getting out of your comfort zone that if you allow it, it will transform you forever, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Getting back to your time in Costa Rica. Are there any really memorable experiences that you could think of? Like when you're sitting around with your friends and telling your stories, what's your favorite story to tell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite stories are meeting my friend Flordelis, who was my project partner. She basically adopted me. I would eat lunch every day at her house. I don't know, there was something special about people feeding you. And it felt so genuine like she I didn't have to pay, you know? It just felt like she just literally wanted to do that for me. And I said, wow, there's good people out there. Because they just opened the doors of her house. I could be a, you know, she just trusted me. So that was pretty amazing for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she have a family there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. She was a mom of three daughters. And, you know, she had her husband and it was a busy house and they just welcomed me with their own. I would just go to church every Sunday and after that go to her mom's house and she would cook for me the things that I liked. So I think I was like, I don't even know if my family treats me like that. It was like the next level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really were spoiled."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.204360143580999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite stories are meeting my friend Flordelis, who was my project partner. She basically adopted me. I would eat lunch every day at her house. I don't know, there was something special about people feeding you. And it felt so genuine like she I didn't have to pay, you know? It just felt like she just literally wanted to do that for me. And I said, wow, there's good people out there. Because they just opened the doors of her house. I could be a, you know, she just trusted me. So that was pretty amazing for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she have a family there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. She was a mom of three daughters. And, you know, she had her husband and it was a busy house and they just welcomed me with their own. I would just go to church every Sunday and after that go to her mom's house and she would cook for me the things that I liked. So I think I was like, I don't even know if my family treats me like that. It was like the next level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really were spoiled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I was spoiled. I was the spoiled one of my group. And so that was definitely special. And I think my cohort, they're my friends, all of them. I mean, we already we already have 2021 reunion coming up, like we already we just we literally love each other like brothers and sisters, and we fight like brothers and sisters. It's just, I mean, we were the same age, our cohort was really like in the same age range. So I think that allows us to be even closer. And we will plan trips in Costa Rica and we would, like, do a lot of stuff together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got some time off you guys would go off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.11595571509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. She was a mom of three daughters. And, you know, she had her husband and it was a busy house and they just welcomed me with their own. I would just go to church every Sunday and after that go to her mom's house and she would cook for me the things that I liked. So I think I was like, I don't even know if my family treats me like that. It was like the next level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really were spoiled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I was spoiled. I was the spoiled one of my group. And so that was definitely special. And I think my cohort, they're my friends, all of them. I mean, we already we already have 2021 reunion coming up, like we already we just we literally love each other like brothers and sisters, and we fight like brothers and sisters. It's just, I mean, we were the same age, our cohort was really like in the same age range. So I think that allows us to be even closer. And we will plan trips in Costa Rica and we would, like, do a lot of stuff together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got some time off you guys would go off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We'd just stay in a hostel for like seven dollars a night or ten and just spend time with each other. I think we met, and we made an effort to meet, at least like once a month or every now and then to do things. So that was pretty special. Like I knew, we can always make it. So that was definitely my cohort. We have a Facebook group, we have a WhatsApp group, we still communicate for sure. That was pretty special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the other volunteers in your group? Did you make any lasting friendships and are you still in touch with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.7955063501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I was spoiled. I was the spoiled one of my group. And so that was definitely special. And I think my cohort, they're my friends, all of them. I mean, we already we already have 2021 reunion coming up, like we already we just we literally love each other like brothers and sisters, and we fight like brothers and sisters. It's just, I mean, we were the same age, our cohort was really like in the same age range. So I think that allows us to be even closer. And we will plan trips in Costa Rica and we would, like, do a lot of stuff together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got some time off you guys would go off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We'd just stay in a hostel for like seven dollars a night or ten and just spend time with each other. I think we met, and we made an effort to meet, at least like once a month or every now and then to do things. So that was pretty special. Like I knew, we can always make it. So that was definitely my cohort. We have a Facebook group, we have a WhatsApp group, we still communicate for sure. That was pretty special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the other volunteers in your group? Did you make any lasting friendships and are you still in touch with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, my best friend Taina Lenny's from Peace Corps. I just spent the summer with one of my friends who I went there with. Stayed in her house for the entire summer for free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, where is she from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.328340389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We'd just stay in a hostel for like seven dollars a night or ten and just spend time with each other. I think we met, and we made an effort to meet, at least like once a month or every now and then to do things. So that was pretty special. Like I knew, we can always make it. So that was definitely my cohort. We have a Facebook group, we have a WhatsApp group, we still communicate for sure. That was pretty special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the other volunteers in your group? Did you make any lasting friendships and are you still in touch with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, my best friend Taina Lenny's from Peace Corps. I just spent the summer with one of my friends who I went there with. Stayed in her house for the entire summer for free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, where is she from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's from Fresno, so I was doing a summer internship there, which I applied to, and then I realized that she lived there and I was like, oh, by the way, can I live with you? And she was like, yeah. So everything worked out for me. Um, and yeah, and even my best friends are from there and we talk almost every day, we message at least because, you know, now technology is so easy to keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's easier to communicate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4670869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's from Fresno, so I was doing a summer internship there, which I applied to, and then I realized that she lived there and I was like, oh, by the way, can I live with you? And she was like, yeah. So everything worked out for me. Um, and yeah, and even my best friends are from there and we talk almost every day, we message at least because, you know, now technology is so easy to keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's easier to communicate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I don't even imagine like back then, like, how do you keep a letter, right? What if it gets lost in the mail? What if you lose that person's address? What are you going to do? So I think for now, for us, it's a lot easier for our generation just to stay in contact constantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a good thing about technology that allows you to, and I have so many friends from Peace Corps, from Costa Rica in Facebook, right? They see me. They comment on my things, oh I hope everything is well. Now I have to post everything in Spanish and English because I have friends from there and friends from here. So it's an interesting dynamic. Um, relationships are super important in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have something in common. Did you notice that when you came back, since you'd had this common experience with other Peace Corps volunteers, that you were closer to them than maybe your old friends from back home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.074541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I don't even imagine like back then, like, how do you keep a letter, right? What if it gets lost in the mail? What if you lose that person's address? What are you going to do? So I think for now, for us, it's a lot easier for our generation just to stay in contact constantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a good thing about technology that allows you to, and I have so many friends from Peace Corps, from Costa Rica in Facebook, right? They see me. They comment on my things, oh I hope everything is well. Now I have to post everything in Spanish and English because I have friends from there and friends from here. So it's an interesting dynamic. Um, relationships are super important in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have something in common. Did you notice that when you came back, since you'd had this common experience with other Peace Corps volunteers, that you were closer to them than maybe your old friends from back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what was the question again? Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this common experience pf Peace Corps, did that give you a closer tie with these people than others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what was the question again? Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this common experience pf Peace Corps, did that give you a closer tie with these people than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, because we were just in training for three months, so we didn't see after that we didn't see each other every day. But I think going to training, there's something so special about sharing spaces with people. Like in school, for example, your friends are usually from school, from work. When you spend intentional time with each other, like share space, that creates a bond. If you allow it, of course. And I think for us, we were so stressed. So for us, it was just to joke with each other and to, you know, bully each other. And I think that, us being in the same situation, that just created a whole other level. And we share so many memories, and I think we were all in that coming out of age, you know, phase where we were like trying to see who we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early 20s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, at least for us, you were like, OK, who are we again? Like, what do we want to do in life? I think for all of us, we were just looking for direction. And I think that created a special bond for us. Because my friends back home, they didn't understand. They wanted to stay in their comfort zone. And I think for us, I think my group, we were just like trying to figure life out. I think we wanted to do good service, right? But we also wanted to figure out us. So I think that was special. Yeah. And we still talk to each other. It's amazing. When we all live in different places like New York, Philly, Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you've only been back for a couple of years, but you'll probably have reunions in the future."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, because we were just in training for three months, so we didn't see after that we didn't see each other every day. But I think going to training, there's something so special about sharing spaces with people. Like in school, for example, your friends are usually from school, from work. When you spend intentional time with each other, like share space, that creates a bond. If you allow it, of course. And I think for us, we were so stressed. So for us, it was just to joke with each other and to, you know, bully each other. And I think that, us being in the same situation, that just created a whole other level. And we share so many memories, and I think we were all in that coming out of age, you know, phase where we were like trying to see who we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early 20s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, at least for us, you were like, OK, who are we again? Like, what do we want to do in life? I think for all of us, we were just looking for direction. And I think that created a special bond for us. Because my friends back home, they didn't understand. They wanted to stay in their comfort zone. And I think for us, I think my group, we were just like trying to figure life out. I think we wanted to do good service, right? But we also wanted to figure out us. So I think that was special. Yeah. And we still talk to each other. It's amazing. When we all live in different places like New York, Philly, Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you've only been back for a couple of years, but you'll probably have reunions in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me what did you like most about Costa Rica and what did you like the least?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Think I'm special?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe look to you for some advice? Do you encourage people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 100 percent. Mainly a lot of undergrads here are interested. There's also in my cohort, they are like three other girls who went to Peace Corps. But a lot of people ask me about my experience and I'm like, best experience of my life. You should do it. It will change your life if you have the right attitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No hesitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm like, best. Honestly, of course, it wasn't like I had negative experiences there, but I think above all, I always recommend people and I'm like, feel free to contact me if you need more advice. I think and I always tell lots of my friends. Actually, one of my friends went in Peace Corps because I told her. I was like, you should do it. And she's there right now in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh is she?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 100 percent. Mainly a lot of undergrads here are interested. There's also in my cohort, they are like three other girls who went to Peace Corps. But a lot of people ask me about my experience and I'm like, best experience of my life. You should do it. It will change your life if you have the right attitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No hesitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm like, best. Honestly, of course, it wasn't like I had negative experiences there, but I think above all, I always recommend people and I'm like, feel free to contact me if you need more advice. I think and I always tell lots of my friends. Actually, one of my friends went in Peace Corps because I told her. I was like, you should do it. And she's there right now in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh is she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went. We got to meet each other before I left. Because when I left, she just arrived and because I was like, you should do it. And she's there. She's also having fun. So I always, they should pay me for this, I always tell people, you should do Peace Corps. It changed my life forever. Definitely no hesitation. I always tell people to do it. But also tell them, by the way, you need to have the emotional intelligence to do Peace Corps because it's not easy to be out of your comfort zone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, you have your ups and downs. And like you mentioned earlier, you have needs to. I mean, you want people to care about you, it's not just how are you here to help us?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm like, best. Honestly, of course, it wasn't like I had negative experiences there, but I think above all, I always recommend people and I'm like, feel free to contact me if you need more advice. I think and I always tell lots of my friends. Actually, one of my friends went in Peace Corps because I told her. I was like, you should do it. And she's there right now in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh is she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went. We got to meet each other before I left. Because when I left, she just arrived and because I was like, you should do it. And she's there. She's also having fun. So I always, they should pay me for this, I always tell people, you should do Peace Corps. It changed my life forever. Definitely no hesitation. I always tell people to do it. But also tell them, by the way, you need to have the emotional intelligence to do Peace Corps because it's not easy to be out of your comfort zone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, you have your ups and downs. And like you mentioned earlier, you have needs to. I mean, you want people to care about you, it's not just how are you here to help us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so how do you balance that? Because in the end, it's mostly about them, you know, like it sucks to your ego, you know, but you are serving the country, their country. You want to learn their culture. So, yeah, it's a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also you're representing America, and you want to leave them with a."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She went. We got to meet each other before I left. Because when I left, she just arrived and because I was like, you should do it. And she's there. She's also having fun. So I always, they should pay me for this, I always tell people, you should do Peace Corps. It changed my life forever. Definitely no hesitation. I always tell people to do it. But also tell them, by the way, you need to have the emotional intelligence to do Peace Corps because it's not easy to be out of your comfort zone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, you have your ups and downs. And like you mentioned earlier, you have needs to. I mean, you want people to care about you, it's not just how are you here to help us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so how do you balance that? Because in the end, it's mostly about them, you know, like it sucks to your ego, you know, but you are serving the country, their country. You want to learn their culture. So, yeah, it's a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also you're representing America, and you want to leave them with a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A good impression."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so how do you balance that? Because in the end, it's mostly about them, you know, like it sucks to your ego, you know, but you are serving the country, their country. You want to learn their culture. So, yeah, it's a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also you're representing America, and you want to leave them with a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A good impression."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which for me, it's just weird representing America because I am from Puerto Rico. So I think like my particular experience, which is representing humanity. Like, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, but you kind of reinforce that diversity in America."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A good impression."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which for me, it's just weird representing America because I am from Puerto Rico. So I think like my particular experience, which is representing humanity. Like, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, but you kind of reinforce that diversity in America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody's not blond haired and blue eyed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which for me, it's just weird representing America because I am from Puerto Rico. So I think like my particular experience, which is representing humanity. Like, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, but you kind of reinforce that diversity in America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody's not blond haired and blue eyed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Hopefully, they've got that. But yeah, it was. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other experiences or any thoughts to wrap up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody's not blond haired and blue eyed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Hopefully, they've got that. But yeah, it was. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other experiences or any thoughts to wrap up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any thoughts? Um, would I do it again? I always ask myself that and I think if I would do it again, it would have to be with my partner if I get married, because I'm not going to go through that by myself again. So when I get married, I will definitely consider it when I'm like, why not? Maybe go to Costa Rica, I don't know where, but not right now. I mean, like, if I would do it, it would be like a long term because two years is a long time. But maybe, I would say I would say maybe. Maybe I would do it again, and I'm just so grateful that I went. It's just everything worked out, school, my career. It took a huge, I mean, and there's other volunteers here and we're like, that's part of my identity, to be a Peace Corps volunteer. Like when I express myself in some way, the conversation, Peace Corps is there, for sure. It's like such a, cause I was like, before that, people, I was like, why do people carry this identity with them so strongly? But I feel that I'm a RPCV, that's something that I tell people. Like, I went to Peace Corps, and that means so much to my life, to my daily life I think. The way I speak, the way I think. I don't know. It's more than doing the job and bye. I don't know about you, but I'm like, I take it everywhere, wherever I go, which is nerdy. I don't know. And every time I meet someone, oh, you were a Peace Corps volunteer? Me too! You know, it's like a bond."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're part of a club."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00134:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Hopefully, they've got that. But yeah, it was. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other experiences or any thoughts to wrap up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any thoughts? Um, would I do it again? I always ask myself that and I think if I would do it again, it would have to be with my partner if I get married, because I'm not going to go through that by myself again. So when I get married, I will definitely consider it when I'm like, why not? Maybe go to Costa Rica, I don't know where, but not right now. I mean, like, if I would do it, it would be like a long term because two years is a long time. But maybe, I would say I would say maybe. Maybe I would do it again, and I'm just so grateful that I went. It's just everything worked out, school, my career. It took a huge, I mean, and there's other volunteers here and we're like, that's part of my identity, to be a Peace Corps volunteer. Like when I express myself in some way, the conversation, Peace Corps is there, for sure. It's like such a, cause I was like, before that, people, I was like, why do people carry this identity with them so strongly? But I feel that I'm a RPCV, that's something that I tell people. Like, I went to Peace Corps, and that means so much to my life, to my daily life I think. The way I speak, the way I think. I don't know. It's more than doing the job and bye. I don't know about you, but I'm like, I take it everywhere, wherever I go, which is nerdy. I don't know. And every time I meet someone, oh, you were a Peace Corps volunteer? Me too! You know, it's like a bond."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're part of a club."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So those are maybe my final thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, it's been a great interview, and I appreciate you taking the time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00370:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 62.174431076335964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see what else you had here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we've covered it pretty well. You've gone through most of what I had down. One question I do have offhand, going back a little bit, you mentioned how Max Faget had mentioned going to the moon and starting that program. What did you think when you heard Kennedy give the announcement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point we were sort of committed. The debate we had wasn't whether we were going to make it or not; the debate was what does \"this decade\" mean. We argued for three or four weeks. So finally I said, \"Well, why don't you go ask the President?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good way to find out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "\"Go ask the President what he meant.\" He said, \"I meant in '69.\" But it was funny, though. That was the biggest debate we had: what's he mean, '70 or '69? Someone said, \"Who cares? We have all these years yet to make it happen.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever think about how much had to be done in that amount of time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00370:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.565746994873905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the NASA experience was probably the best overall as a learning experience.\\n\\n Do you want to go off for a minute and let's see if there's anything— [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n —send Apollo 8 to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was flabbergasted. I mean, what a bold decision. Had I had the courage to make that decision? I don't think so. I don't know. I mean, that was a bold decision. I read George Low's stuff. He was really in doubt. And Gilruth. Gilruth probably had pits in his stomach. I mean, I'm sure that it was really Mueller's decision. But that was a very bold—in fact, Joe Shea and I talked about it when the thing was announced. We talked about it. He said, \"You really believe that?\" I said, \"Gee, I don't know.\" That's why I know Joe would not—I don't think he'd have made that decision.\\n\\n What were you doing? The thoughts during the first landing. Well, I was at the Cape for the launch, and I was in Mission Control for the landing. I was in Mission Control for the recovery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like, the atmosphere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The launch thing, you know, the launch thing was interesting. They invited myself and my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00370:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.4251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see what else here. You said \"During your career, what do you consider the biggest challenge?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the biggest challenge was keeping in perspective the entire program and not allowing any one of it to get out of phase and not allowing an area to go off, to say, \"We're going to go off,\" to say, \"Wait a minute. No, you don't understand. You've got to be integrated in here. Here's where we are in this thing.\"\\n\\n I think the weekly report that we did, keeping everyone totally informed, from Joe Shea and the program manager down, clearly kept everyone where we were headed for. That probably was—that probably was the biggest challenge. If you take a look, I was looking through something here the other day. I was looking at the total number of work we had to do one week. We had to do the command and service module, about five or six projects LM, five or six projects guidance system, ACE [automatic checkout equipment]. You know, you have all these things going across, and you had to be in touch across all of those in a uniform manner. Also then your funding needs things. There's budget battles and cost battles, and everyone wants to make changes, so you try to decide whether change is really required or not required. So, just keeping everything equal, to me, was really the biggest challenge. As I say, I would say I ended up probably being the business manager, is the best way, in a large office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very large."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very large office. And being the ears and eyes of politically what was going on at the center. I was fascinated by the cooperation with Chris Kraft and Max. I mean, we got in battles. We got in knock-down, drag-out battles, you know. It was fun. I mean, no one got excited. We went out and had a beer and had dinner together, you know, at each other's houses on weekends. But during that period, why, they really worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good that that relationship existed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00370:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 17.139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the biggest challenge was keeping in perspective the entire program and not allowing any one of it to get out of phase and not allowing an area to go off, to say, \"We're going to go off,\" to say, \"Wait a minute. No, you don't understand. You've got to be integrated in here. Here's where we are in this thing.\"\\n\\n I think the weekly report that we did, keeping everyone totally informed, from Joe Shea and the program manager down, clearly kept everyone where we were headed for. That probably was—that probably was the biggest challenge. If you take a look, I was looking through something here the other day. I was looking at the total number of work we had to do one week. We had to do the command and service module, about five or six projects LM, five or six projects guidance system, ACE [automatic checkout equipment]. You know, you have all these things going across, and you had to be in touch across all of those in a uniform manner. Also then your funding needs things. There's budget battles and cost battles, and everyone wants to make changes, so you try to decide whether change is really required or not required. So, just keeping everything equal, to me, was really the biggest challenge. As I say, I would say I ended up probably being the business manager, is the best way, in a large office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very large."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very large office. And being the ears and eyes of politically what was going on at the center. I was fascinated by the cooperation with Chris Kraft and Max. I mean, we got in battles. We got in knock-down, drag-out battles, you know. It was fun. I mean, no one got excited. We went out and had a beer and had dinner together, you know, at each other's houses on weekends. But during that period, why, they really worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good that that relationship existed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in Space Task Group back at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew each other well enough."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.646589406060208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prerequisites are kind of a grey area. The one gentleman that I have with me, Josh [Joshua Graham], he spent four years in the military, basically worked out of the same military life support shop I did. So his background, he came to me with a lot of experience. So his training was more refinement than anything else. And he's a sharp troop as well, so that makes a big difference.\\n\\n A lot of the other people I'm working with are egress people, and although they don't know a lot about the pressure suit environment, they have a lot of training on aircraft and aircraft ejection systems, which are kind of a parallel career field, if you will. So even though they don't know the specifics, they know the generalities, so it's a very easy transition for them. Everybody in our group, like I said, everybody has a specialty, but everybody's specialty kind of wraps around the life support/egress environment. So somebody comes in who's never seen a pressure suit before is going to pick up on it very, very quickly because they're part of the environment, and that's what makes it really easy to train somebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that he came from the same shop, the military area that you came from. Since you've worked on the military side and now in the NASA shop, how do those shops compare? Are they run similarly or are they different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of a loaded question there. I really don't want to address that issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't think I could be fair trying to make a comparison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's perfectly fine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 34.051766006733565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of a loaded question there. I really don't want to address that issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't think I could be fair trying to make a comparison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's perfectly fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both of them are very, for what their mission is—I got some fantastic training in the military, as did Josh. But the environments are entirely different. The training and the quality of the work is the same, but just how you go about doing it is entirely different, and I think I couldn't do either one of them justice. Myself or them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Have you ever been in a suit yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.419548859523793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to think so. Don't tell them I said that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned traveling to Wallops Island, and from what I've read, you've pretty much traveled all over the world with your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seen a little bit of ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about that, how that travel comes about, and why you travel, and what you do when you're on travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Travel's a lot of work for the most part. Stateside traveling is a lot easier than traveling overseas, of course. It all depends on the mission. My first 10, 12 years in this program, we were heavily involved with ozone research, chasing ozone holes around the world. Arctic, Antarctica. We were everywhere from down in Puerto Montt, Chile, to Stavanger, Norway, in New Zealand, Australia, Fiji. Wherever they had the best locations for catching data was where we went. We ran all over the world chasing ozone holes.\\n\\n Got some great data. Of course, data takes so many years to be evaluated and put in perspective, but we would just come by and the scientists say, \"Yeah, our system worked, got great data,\" and we'd just go on to the next location. You'd go in there, you'd put in some long hours, sometimes 60, 70 hour weeks because you're flying seven, eight hour missions. Then you might have three or four days in a row that the weather doesn’t cooperate, so you get your time off. But the traveling is nice, I got to see a lot of the world. Didn't get to do a lot of tourist stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still travel a lot, or is that something you don't do as much?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.225649839237603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my personal standpoint, it's more preparation on the front end. We actually have our logistics people that take care of the shipping. Not much to it, actually, from my standpoint. It's just making sure that what I need now doesn't get shipped ahead so I don't have it. That's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they basically ship the shop to these locations, or do you just have a pared-down amount of equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just have a pared-down amount of emergency stuff and bare necessities. We don't take a lot. That's on the preparation on the front side, is if we know we're going to be on the road for 30 days or 45 days or two months or whatever, we'll prep all the equipment—which are on inspection cycles—we'll prep everything before we go so nothing comes due schedule-wise while we're gone. So when you're in place, all you have to worry about is literally launch and recovery of the airplane and sustaining flight operations. You don't have to worry about anything else. It's just a matter of putting stuff in boxes and giving it to our supply people. They're waiting for us on the other end, so it's not a lot to that aspect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you actually get there? Is it through NASA planes, or is it through commercial aircraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally it's commercial. Occasionally, it's military transport. Very, very occasionally, depending on where we go, we have flown once or twice on NASA aircraft. But mainly it's just commercial. The last time, when we flew to Costa Rica, we did fly military transport along with the equipment we were taking. It all depends on the circumstances of where we're going. Everything's different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been with NASA like you said for 20 years, both as a contractor and now a civil servant. Do you have any feelings of how the Agency itself has changed, and the aeronautics role has maybe changed during that time period that you've been here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.797098566960003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally it's commercial. Occasionally, it's military transport. Very, very occasionally, depending on where we go, we have flown once or twice on NASA aircraft. But mainly it's just commercial. The last time, when we flew to Costa Rica, we did fly military transport along with the equipment we were taking. It all depends on the circumstances of where we're going. Everything's different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been with NASA like you said for 20 years, both as a contractor and now a civil servant. Do you have any feelings of how the Agency itself has changed, and the aeronautics role has maybe changed during that time period that you've been here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't have an answer to that question, unfortunately. Our group is just so small, and I don't see the big picture, unfortunately. I’m just now starting to see the big picture or get an idea of what the big picture is. But I really can't. I couldn't answer that question because I don't know. I'm just now starting to open my eyes to something other than my own little piece of the world, shall we say. I would really like to see aeronautics flourish because there's always stuff out there that needs to be explored, stuff that needs to be tested. In my opinion, there's a great need for aeronautics, and of course from the operational standpoint that we're on, there's a lot of research out there that still hasn't been gathered yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of that, during these missions with this ER-2, they do the photography, the different observations. I was looking at a list, the global radiation budget, climate change research, satellite sensor systems and development, disaster assessment. How do you feel that that affects the every day person, or how does NASA's research in this area effect or impact society as a whole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I have no idea how to answer that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.885665074400002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't have an answer to that question, unfortunately. Our group is just so small, and I don't see the big picture, unfortunately. I’m just now starting to see the big picture or get an idea of what the big picture is. But I really can't. I couldn't answer that question because I don't know. I'm just now starting to open my eyes to something other than my own little piece of the world, shall we say. I would really like to see aeronautics flourish because there's always stuff out there that needs to be explored, stuff that needs to be tested. In my opinion, there's a great need for aeronautics, and of course from the operational standpoint that we're on, there's a lot of research out there that still hasn't been gathered yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of that, during these missions with this ER-2, they do the photography, the different observations. I was looking at a list, the global radiation budget, climate change research, satellite sensor systems and development, disaster assessment. How do you feel that that affects the every day person, or how does NASA's research in this area effect or impact society as a whole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I have no idea how to answer that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the benefits of the research. You mentioned that there's a lot still to be done."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00930:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.095183416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I have no idea how to answer that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's fine too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the benefits of the research. You mentioned that there's a lot still to be done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. There's always new sensors out there that are being made to test new parameters and look for new things that are constantly going on, things that we've never tested for before. There are always people with new ideas. There's just stuff that hasn't been made yet. We just don't know what it is yet. The only way I could probably answer your question is NASA has a little handout that I take to schools, and it's just a little cardboard placard on it, and it's just one of those things that'll show a house or a small city or whatnot as you look at it, and as you tilt it, the view you're looking at, it'll change. It shows you the improvements just to everyday life that NASA or the Space Program has had an impact on, whether it be just making airplanes quieter, or the bed you sleep on, type of thing. I passed it out to kids and said, \"These are just some of the advances, the technology that has been transferred over to the private sector that has been developed for the Space Program or something that has been captured by NASA or some government agency or whatever that has improved personal life.\"\\n\\n We take them for granted. I take them for granted. I look at that and say, \"Hey, this is neat stuff.\" There's some stuff in there I didn't even know. I was like a little kid flipping this thing, \"Oh, that's cool.\" So that's about the only answer I could give you. It's just you never know what's coming down, and something small and minute could have far-reaching effects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned speaking to kids. Do you do a lot of presentations for school groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 60.25302735633047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior in high school, and my sister was working at NASA at the time. She had told me that NASA was hiring, and that she thought it would be a good opportunity for me if I wanted to apply. So I applied in the spring of 1966 and was hired and started work in June 1966."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know about NASA at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little, to be quite honest. I remember when the announcement was made in the early ’60s that the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC, now Johnson Space Center, JSC, Houston, Texas] was going to be built in the Clear Lake area. I was a teenager at the time and very naively thought that oh, they’re going to launch from Clear Lake. It wasn’t until two or three years later that I finally realized that the Mission Control support area would be in Houston, the launch was actually going to be from the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. But I do remember thinking about that at the time. In March of 1965 the first Gemini flight, John [W.] Young and [Virgil I.] Gus Grissom flew that one. They made the flight on my birthday, the 23rd of March. So I always remembered that mission. With my sister having worked there, I did have a keen interest in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you from this area originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was born in Texas City, [Texas] spent most of my childhood in Dickinson, [Texas] graduated from Dickinson High School. So I’m a Gulf Coast girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to watch the whole impact of how NASA changed the area, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 61.392252618144965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little, to be quite honest. I remember when the announcement was made in the early ’60s that the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC, now Johnson Space Center, JSC, Houston, Texas] was going to be built in the Clear Lake area. I was a teenager at the time and very naively thought that oh, they’re going to launch from Clear Lake. It wasn’t until two or three years later that I finally realized that the Mission Control support area would be in Houston, the launch was actually going to be from the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. But I do remember thinking about that at the time. In March of 1965 the first Gemini flight, John [W.] Young and [Virgil I.] Gus Grissom flew that one. They made the flight on my birthday, the 23rd of March. So I always remembered that mission. With my sister having worked there, I did have a keen interest in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you from this area originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was born in Texas City, [Texas] spent most of my childhood in Dickinson, [Texas] graduated from Dickinson High School. So I’m a Gulf Coast girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to watch the whole impact of how NASA changed the area, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole impact, yes. But I was little; six or seven years old. I remember my family going over to Clear Lake. We’d go there and swim on the weekend. It was pastures on both sides of the street. I do remember the [James M.] West Mansion [large home on Clear Lake built by James M. West in 1929/1930]. Sitting there all by itself, as a child I was just blown away by it. But it was rural. Farming country. It wasn’t too many years later that it was a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about your first job and the duties and how you became part of the astronaut office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 63.769169575716624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was born in Texas City, [Texas] spent most of my childhood in Dickinson, [Texas] graduated from Dickinson High School. So I’m a Gulf Coast girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to watch the whole impact of how NASA changed the area, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole impact, yes. But I was little; six or seven years old. I remember my family going over to Clear Lake. We’d go there and swim on the weekend. It was pastures on both sides of the street. I do remember the [James M.] West Mansion [large home on Clear Lake built by James M. West in 1929/1930]. Sitting there all by itself, as a child I was just blown away by it. But it was rural. Farming country. It wasn’t too many years later that it was a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about your first job and the duties and how you became part of the astronaut office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister was working at NASA, and in the spring of 1966 she married another NASA employee, Tom [Thomas G.] Mancuso. My sister is Dianna [M. Flowers Mancuso]. [Tom] was working in procurement when I went out to NASA and interviewed for a position. They called and offered me a position. There were, I think, several openings at the time. One of them was in procurement office, and the other one was in the astronaut office. My new brother-in-law worked in procurement, and I thought, \"Oh, okay, it may not be too good of an idea for me to go in and work in the same area that he’s working.\" So I by default picked the astronaut office. At that time I really wasn’t completely aware that the astronauts’ home base was in Houston. They always had been associated with the Cape so much and Florida. I really wasn’t aware that the astronaut office was the astronaut office. I thought maybe it was some type of support unit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a surprise on your point to find out that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 70.85463286190736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole impact, yes. But I was little; six or seven years old. I remember my family going over to Clear Lake. We’d go there and swim on the weekend. It was pastures on both sides of the street. I do remember the [James M.] West Mansion [large home on Clear Lake built by James M. West in 1929/1930]. Sitting there all by itself, as a child I was just blown away by it. But it was rural. Farming country. It wasn’t too many years later that it was a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about your first job and the duties and how you became part of the astronaut office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister was working at NASA, and in the spring of 1966 she married another NASA employee, Tom [Thomas G.] Mancuso. My sister is Dianna [M. Flowers Mancuso]. [Tom] was working in procurement when I went out to NASA and interviewed for a position. They called and offered me a position. There were, I think, several openings at the time. One of them was in procurement office, and the other one was in the astronaut office. My new brother-in-law worked in procurement, and I thought, \"Oh, okay, it may not be too good of an idea for me to go in and work in the same area that he’s working.\" So I by default picked the astronaut office. At that time I really wasn’t completely aware that the astronauts’ home base was in Houston. They always had been associated with the Cape so much and Florida. I really wasn’t aware that the astronaut office was the astronaut office. I thought maybe it was some type of support unit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a surprise on your point to find out that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was quite a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a few, and then you had many, right? A number of astronauts came in right after you got there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.567484049985186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My very first job. I graduated from high school one week, and I was standing in Alan Shepard’s office about seven days later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really is, and I was the baby of the office. I was the young one. But they gave me just wonderful opportunities. For it to be the first job, it was a learning experience, but it served me well throughout my career, because of the team effort and the quality of work and the quality of people that I was exposed to and working with. I was very, very lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so much was going on during those years. The flights were very quick one right after another."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 33.96387116665021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really is, and I was the baby of the office. I was the young one. But they gave me just wonderful opportunities. For it to be the first job, it was a learning experience, but it served me well throughout my career, because of the team effort and the quality of work and the quality of people that I was exposed to and working with. I was very, very lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so much was going on during those years. The flights were very quick one right after another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve already mentioned your duties changed so often. One of the things that you mentioned that you had done along the line was to maintain checklists and flight plans. What did all that entail as you got into more of your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.716677956697325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe we should say it was more archaic than what we’re doing now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. We typed on IBM Select typewriters and had to type in at least—the least was triplicate, which meant erasing carbon copies when you had any type of error on them, [for] anything that went out of the office. They were fairly lenient with regard to using [Bic] Wite-Out [correction fluid] and that type of thing. Most people now don’t even know what Wite-Out is. But if anything actually left the office, then we did it until it was perfect. Anything that went to Mr. Slayton’s office—we used to laugh, because having been over there and worked with Sue Symms, she really did get a ruler out and measure the margins to make sure anything that was going to the director’s office was exact, exact. So we called her the ruler lady. Sue was wonderful. We knew what was required, and we produced good documents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No option."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had to work with the families."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 36.351864396330356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. We typed on IBM Select typewriters and had to type in at least—the least was triplicate, which meant erasing carbon copies when you had any type of error on them, [for] anything that went out of the office. They were fairly lenient with regard to using [Bic] Wite-Out [correction fluid] and that type of thing. Most people now don’t even know what Wite-Out is. But if anything actually left the office, then we did it until it was perfect. Anything that went to Mr. Slayton’s office—we used to laugh, because having been over there and worked with Sue Symms, she really did get a ruler out and measure the margins to make sure anything that was going to the director’s office was exact, exact. So we called her the ruler lady. Sue was wonderful. We knew what was required, and we produced good documents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No option."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had to work with the families."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how were you able to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.83540488481151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No option."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had to work with the families."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how were you able to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually were a family within the astronaut office, and the guys traveled—I still call them “guys”—the astronauts traveled so much, and were out of town. When they were in town, they were in [meetings and] the simulators for hours. We were the contacts the wives had as far as being able to get to their husbands. We developed very close relationships with the wives and the families, especially during launches. We babysat. I babysat for the [Stuart A.] Roosa family and for the [Ronald E.] Evans and for the [Joe H.] Engles and for Bill [William A.] Anders. There were about two or three of us in the office that would babysit, so we really did get to know the kids and the families. Of course the astronauts’ sisters and brothers and mothers and dads would call the office, and we all knew them very well too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was part of your job somewhat protecting them from the public?\\n\\n ."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.871486928580044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we lost Grissom, White, and [Roger B.] Chaffee, that was extremely difficult for everyone in the office. Since I had been put in the position of working for Colonel Grissom when we all moved upstairs—and that was actually the first secretarial position I had, even though it was temporary—and I had very very strong feelings for Colonel Grissom. When we lost that crew, that was extremely difficult. That was in January of 1967, so I had only been in the astronaut office about six months. I heard it on the radio in the car, that the crew had been lost.\\n\\n So by the time everybody got to the office, it was an extremely difficult time. But [it was] another [early] lesson learned [for me] from the astronauts, the support, [and] the secretaries. The main [focus] was to find out the cause and to correct it. Once the funerals were over, everybody was at work. Apollo 7, the spacecraft was completely redesigned. Schirra, [Donn F.] Eisele, and [Walter] Cunningham did a tremendous job. Everyone in the office did. It was difficult time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a great feeling to share with everybody when Apollo 7 was able to launch and had such a fantastic mission and came back ready to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, exactly. Because had that spacecraft had problems [on Apollo 7], we would not have met President [John F.] Kennedy’s [goal]—we wouldn’t have done it. Because the spacecraft and the crew and the mission was such a success, that was the step we needed to get going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then of course Apollo 8 followed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Moon, around the Moon on Christmas Eve, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a while it was a secret that they were going to take that trip. Were you in the know before that happened as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.746096587311158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, exactly. Because had that spacecraft had problems [on Apollo 7], we would not have met President [John F.] Kennedy’s [goal]—we wouldn’t have done it. Because the spacecraft and the crew and the mission was such a success, that was the step we needed to get going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then of course Apollo 8 followed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Moon, around the Moon on Christmas Eve, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a while it was a secret that they were going to take that trip. Were you in the know before that happened as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, we were. But that really was quite a surprise for everyone. The decision was made quite quickly. Someone had the brilliant idea, \"Okay, this all worked so well on Apollo 7, let’s do the swing around.\" [James A.] Lovell [Jr.] said, [Frank] Borman, Anders, they all said, \"Sure, let’s give it a go.\" So away we went. It was quite something. Then [Apollo] 9 tested the Lunar Module [LM]. That was the first test of the Lunar Module. That was done in Earth orbit. Everything was just going perfectly. Everything was going perfectly with those missions. It was exciting, it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mentioned earlier about working in the correspondence issue of it, and all the manuals and of course doing the checklists and things, did you find yourself picking up more and more of the technical information and learning more and more about how everything worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.06048914583148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, I really did, and I got to [the point that] I didn’t need to check with Admiral Shepard—Captain Shepard at the time, Admiral Shepard later—with regard to who needed to get a particular document. It didn’t take me long to pick up on the jargon, on the acronyms, and that was a big adjustment. Oh, my gosh, learning all those acronyms, and going through the mail. Because a lot of times, especially before the [official] announcements were made, [as to] which astronauts were officially [assigned to specific] programs or missions, we would get CCed [carbon copied] on everything, and it would just be sent to the astronaut office. So a large part of my job at that time would be to read these and figure out what it was about and who was working on it. At first I spent quite a bit of time in those weekly meetings with Shepard, and he was extremely gracious and would explain to me [a] particular [subject]—I learned a lot. It wasn’t too long before I got to where I could read [technical memos] and knew who they went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the keeper of the knowledge, and I bet people started coming to you asking you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking as you got involved more with the missions and actually working, the same type of things would come across your desk, and you were able to filter that information out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct, right, right. Any of the accident reports. We had secret clearances. I remember specifically those things I had to hand-carry to the astronauts. They had to read them and then return them directly to me. We had to sign back and forth, back and forth. The other secretaries did not [officially] get to see those [reports]. I was the only admin person besides Gay Alford that saw the accident reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a secret clearance. That’s very interesting, because someone so young—maybe it was easier to clear you that way. You didn’t have a whole lot of experience to go through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.98825820473022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct, right, right. Any of the accident reports. We had secret clearances. I remember specifically those things I had to hand-carry to the astronauts. They had to read them and then return them directly to me. We had to sign back and forth, back and forth. The other secretaries did not [officially] get to see those [reports]. I was the only admin person besides Gay Alford that saw the accident reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a secret clearance. That’s very interesting, because someone so young—maybe it was easier to clear you that way. You didn’t have a whole lot of experience to go through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That probably is true. But they did, they actually did knock on the doors of the neighbors. I know that for a fact. They tell you they will do that. Well, they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also work with the contractors? We know that the astronauts would go to the different facilities."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 52.20917578303358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That probably is true. But they did, they actually did knock on the doors of the neighbors. I know that for a fact. They tell you they will do that. Well, they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also work with the contractors? We know that the astronauts would go to the different facilities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to correspond with those offices as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 50.23241753670398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also work with the contractors? We know that the astronauts would go to the different facilities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to correspond with those offices as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and mainly telephone. We did teletype back then [also]. But most of it was telephone. Especially with North American Rockwell [Corporation] and Grumman [Aerospace Corporation] that was building the LM, and North American Rockwell that was building the Command Module. So we had people out there that we interfaced with all of the time. At the Cape and in Houston the simulators, part of the simulator staff were [Philco] Ford [Corporation] and Singer-Link. We had quite a bit of interface with those contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Again all the new technology coming on and you learning more and more about what they all do. I was thinking what we might do is stop for a second, because we’re actually leading up more close into working with Apollo 10. We’ll just stop for a second and let you get a drink of water.\\n\\n [pause]\\n\\n I know that one of the special parts of your time working at the Manned Spacecraft Center was that you were very involved in the Apollo 10 mission. Tell us how you were able to be a part of that special time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.48019812061096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Snoopy girl. Almost 40 years later, and Tom still introduces me as the Snoopy girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he wasn’t able to take your personal item with him, the Snoopy. Did he go to the launch too? Did you take Snoopy to go watch the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Snoopy stayed in the crew quarters, was guarding the crew quarters on launch day. But we did go out and see the launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what that was like, watching your guys go up for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting, it was exciting. Of course there was concern, but the success of the previous missions gave you confidence. The Saturn V had launched beautifully, flawlessly. The guys were excited. They were well trained. They were ready to go. There was a great deal of excitement, apprehension, yes, but excitement, very much so. Seeing a Saturn V launch was just—I can still hear it. You don’t forget that sound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel it as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 38.311331245123284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Snoopy stayed in the crew quarters, was guarding the crew quarters on launch day. But we did go out and see the launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what that was like, watching your guys go up for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting, it was exciting. Of course there was concern, but the success of the previous missions gave you confidence. The Saturn V had launched beautifully, flawlessly. The guys were excited. They were well trained. They were ready to go. There was a great deal of excitement, apprehension, yes, but excitement, very much so. Seeing a Saturn V launch was just—I can still hear it. You don’t forget that sound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you bet, you bet. It came right across at you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties during the launch and while the mission was going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 32.56814582791476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting, it was exciting. Of course there was concern, but the success of the previous missions gave you confidence. The Saturn V had launched beautifully, flawlessly. The guys were excited. They were well trained. They were ready to go. There was a great deal of excitement, apprehension, yes, but excitement, very much so. Seeing a Saturn V launch was just—I can still hear it. You don’t forget that sound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you bet, you bet. It came right across at you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties during the launch and while the mission was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the launch once the guys left the quarters, we left shortly thereafter, too, and went out to the private area where we could view the launch. So we, [the secretaries,] were spectators at launch time. As soon as the launch was over, we went back into the crew quarters, [and] at that point I think they considered the secretary’s duty at the Cape complete. Once the crew was launched, we returned to Houston. Sometimes they gave us a day before we needed to be back. But we would return to Houston and work the mission from our office in Houston.\\n\\n Most of the time we were like everyone else, [and] we watched [and followed the missions] as much as we could. But [during Apollo] 10 I [also] worked for Mike [Michael] Collins, and he was getting ready to fly [Apollo] 11, and I also worked for [Charles] Pete Conrad, [Jr.,] and he was commander on [Apollo] 12. So a lot was happening in the office as 10 was flying; 11 was getting ready to go, and 12 was short behind. We were turning around those missions pretty quickly. We were going from a May 18th launch for Apollo 10, shooting for a July 16th launch for Apollo 11. So it was quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you down there also for 11? Tell us your involvement with 11."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.77462078598242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed in Florida. For one thing, I was very very tired. We worked very long long hours leading up to Apollo 11. I had my car down there, and I was going to have to drive it back to Houston. I didn’t want to be on the road if something didn’t go right. I wanted to make sure I was where I could get home quickly if I needed to. So I stayed in Florida and was in Florida when they actually landed and Neil took his first step. Then I returned home shortly, I think the day after that. I came on back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to get Apollo 12 ready."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to get Apollo 12 ready, yes, Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference between Armstrong and Conrad."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.638467539980468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed in Florida. For one thing, I was very very tired. We worked very long long hours leading up to Apollo 11. I had my car down there, and I was going to have to drive it back to Houston. I didn’t want to be on the road if something didn’t go right. I wanted to make sure I was where I could get home quickly if I needed to. So I stayed in Florida and was in Florida when they actually landed and Neil took his first step. Then I returned home shortly, I think the day after that. I came on back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to get Apollo 12 ready."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to get Apollo 12 ready, yes, Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference between Armstrong and Conrad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes, Pete was Pete, he was one of a kind, he was one of a kind. Delightful. They were all just wonderful. They were all overachievers. All had their own unique individual personalities. Most of them had just great senses of humor and appreciated that a good laugh and a lot of levity helped to ease the stress in the situation. So we did have a good time. We had some fun times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it helps if you had a sense of humor so that you could laugh along with them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 31.820519488867188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to get Apollo 12 ready, yes, Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference between Armstrong and Conrad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes, Pete was Pete, he was one of a kind, he was one of a kind. Delightful. They were all just wonderful. They were all overachievers. All had their own unique individual personalities. Most of them had just great senses of humor and appreciated that a good laugh and a lot of levity helped to ease the stress in the situation. So we did have a good time. We had some fun times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it helps if you had a sense of humor so that you could laugh along with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to, because they would play jokes on us just for the sport of it. So you had to learn to give as good as you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Snoopy, did you have a chance to do any gotchas back to that crew or crews in general?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.57835498763021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes, Pete was Pete, he was one of a kind, he was one of a kind. Delightful. They were all just wonderful. They were all overachievers. All had their own unique individual personalities. Most of them had just great senses of humor and appreciated that a good laugh and a lot of levity helped to ease the stress in the situation. So we did have a good time. We had some fun times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it helps if you had a sense of humor so that you could laugh along with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to, because they would play jokes on us just for the sport of it. So you had to learn to give as good as you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Snoopy, did you have a chance to do any gotchas back to that crew or crews in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally more in the office. I made the comment one time to one of the guys—I can’t remember, but I think it was Ron Evans—that I was always looking for string. I never could find string. Well, about three days later I come into the office at 7:30 in the morning and I cannot get in the door of my office. It looked like a web in there. They had taken the string and stretched it all over the office. They were always doing crazy things like that. Back then there was a brand called Hang Ten with these little “surfer” feet [for a logo]. [Gordon] Cooper had gotten to work with a stamp pad [in Charlene Stroman’s office] and put little feet running all over the walls so it looked like this little creature had been in there overnight. They were always doing crazy things like that. We generally couldn’t get back at them too much, but we did our share, we certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing how busy they were, they found time to do those types of things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.53150554181134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to, because they would play jokes on us just for the sport of it. So you had to learn to give as good as you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Snoopy, did you have a chance to do any gotchas back to that crew or crews in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally more in the office. I made the comment one time to one of the guys—I can’t remember, but I think it was Ron Evans—that I was always looking for string. I never could find string. Well, about three days later I come into the office at 7:30 in the morning and I cannot get in the door of my office. It looked like a web in there. They had taken the string and stretched it all over the office. They were always doing crazy things like that. Back then there was a brand called Hang Ten with these little “surfer” feet [for a logo]. [Gordon] Cooper had gotten to work with a stamp pad [in Charlene Stroman’s office] and put little feet running all over the walls so it looked like this little creature had been in there overnight. They were always doing crazy things like that. We generally couldn’t get back at them too much, but we did our share, we certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing how busy they were, they found time to do those types of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the way they let off a little bit of steam and got out from underneath a lot of the stress. They worked horrendous hours, absolutely horrendous hours. We were good, [easy] targets. So were the training guys and the team leaders, and they were always slipping things in their checklists that they would find when they were flipping through their checklists. They would find all these fun little things and different patches. I think it helped. I think it helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you found some of those things too, when they would slip them in for the guys, you would find them first."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.812783935345934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally more in the office. I made the comment one time to one of the guys—I can’t remember, but I think it was Ron Evans—that I was always looking for string. I never could find string. Well, about three days later I come into the office at 7:30 in the morning and I cannot get in the door of my office. It looked like a web in there. They had taken the string and stretched it all over the office. They were always doing crazy things like that. Back then there was a brand called Hang Ten with these little “surfer” feet [for a logo]. [Gordon] Cooper had gotten to work with a stamp pad [in Charlene Stroman’s office] and put little feet running all over the walls so it looked like this little creature had been in there overnight. They were always doing crazy things like that. We generally couldn’t get back at them too much, but we did our share, we certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing how busy they were, they found time to do those types of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the way they let off a little bit of steam and got out from underneath a lot of the stress. They worked horrendous hours, absolutely horrendous hours. We were good, [easy] targets. So were the training guys and the team leaders, and they were always slipping things in their checklists that they would find when they were flipping through their checklists. They would find all these fun little things and different patches. I think it helped. I think it helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you found some of those things too, when they would slip them in for the guys, you would find them first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have given you some kind of entertainment, watching them find those things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.458648817051035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the way they let off a little bit of steam and got out from underneath a lot of the stress. They worked horrendous hours, absolutely horrendous hours. We were good, [easy] targets. So were the training guys and the team leaders, and they were always slipping things in their checklists that they would find when they were flipping through their checklists. They would find all these fun little things and different patches. I think it helped. I think it helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you found some of those things too, when they would slip them in for the guys, you would find them first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have given you some kind of entertainment, watching them find those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was. They enjoyed it. The guys that thought up these things were always very proud of what they did. The astronauts had great appreciation for the creativity behind these gotchas and pranks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling us during the break about Grissom and lunch with space food. Could you share with us the details about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.509609796723375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have given you some kind of entertainment, watching them find those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was. They enjoyed it. The guys that thought up these things were always very proud of what they did. The astronauts had great appreciation for the creativity behind these gotchas and pranks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling us during the break about Grissom and lunch with space food. Could you share with us the details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working with Colonel Grissom in Flight C at the time. The guys were asked to test things. One of the things was the food. So Colonel Grissom had told me he was going to fix me lunch one day. That he did. It was the biggest mess I have ever seen. I don’t [remember] what it was. He added too much water to it, whatever it was. So it was floating. He’s behind his desk. I’m sitting in front of the desk. I think after squeezing the water out of about three spoonfuls, we both decided that I probably needed to go over to the cafeteria and pick up a couple of tuna sandwiches because he didn’t mix it right. But he was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t recommend him to be the chef, I take it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 45.01067755191486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was. They enjoyed it. The guys that thought up these things were always very proud of what they did. The astronauts had great appreciation for the creativity behind these gotchas and pranks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling us during the break about Grissom and lunch with space food. Could you share with us the details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working with Colonel Grissom in Flight C at the time. The guys were asked to test things. One of the things was the food. So Colonel Grissom had told me he was going to fix me lunch one day. That he did. It was the biggest mess I have ever seen. I don’t [remember] what it was. He added too much water to it, whatever it was. So it was floating. He’s behind his desk. I’m sitting in front of the desk. I think after squeezing the water out of about three spoonfuls, we both decided that I probably needed to go over to the cafeteria and pick up a couple of tuna sandwiches because he didn’t mix it right. But he was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t recommend him to be the chef, I take it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But he learned. That was a learning experience for him. I think he probably even may have made some changes in what he was selecting as his food choices. Because they were given choices as far as what was going to be available for these flights, and that they could pick what they wanted for specific meals, and that’s what would be packed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked some about what you did in preparation for the missions. When they came back, did you work with them as far as their debriefs and suggestions that they would have for the next crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 50.75392290359859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But he learned. That was a learning experience for him. I think he probably even may have made some changes in what he was selecting as his food choices. Because they were given choices as far as what was going to be available for these flights, and that they could pick what they wanted for specific meals, and that’s what would be packed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked some about what you did in preparation for the missions. When they came back, did you work with them as far as their debriefs and suggestions that they would have for the next crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Because those were technical. The first debriefing they had was in the conference room in the astronaut office. They would give a pretty open and detailed briefing, and it was closed, it was the astronauts only. We may have gotten involved to the extent of typing up something for it. But as far as any preparation for it, we did not. But our main role post-mission was all the correspondence that was required in support of all the letters that were coming in, [and] all [their personal] thank-you letters. All of the Apollo crews made post-flight appearances, and most of them were world tours. So we were gearing up to get them ready to go. That meant all the visas and passports and working with the State Department to get all of that done. Then they would be gone for ten days, two weeks, sometimes longer than that on those post-flight tours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t get to go on those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn’t. No, Headquarters always got to staff those. That wasn’t totally fair. But we had another mission following. So it was nice to have them out of the office for a few days so we could get on with getting ready for Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked with 12 as well. Anything different on that one than you had done for the other two?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 52.70863673152567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Equipment, and a lot of the stuff that we were involved in as far as the correspondence and the memorandums had to do with their work on and training in the Rover and training with their experiments. I did have [a unique] opportunity one time. We had a rock [area], the “lunar surface,” which was a little more than a rock pile. There was one at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] and at JSC, MSC back then. The guys were suited, and I went out [to the rock pile] with them [when] they were working on setting out experiments, and took notes on their comments as far as what it was that they thought needed to be changed or their comments that this cord was too long, or this was too short, or we weren’t going to be able to attach what we needed to. That was interesting [and] a lot of fun, a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like you kind of got to go to the Moon there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, you really felt like you were part of it. More than just in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see what you had been reading. That had to be neat. Hopefully it was cool for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had their little portable air conditioners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you needed one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 57.4540408128063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, you really felt like you were part of it. More than just in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see what you had been reading. That had to be neat. Hopefully it was cool for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had their little portable air conditioners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you needed one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember having heels on. I didn’t know I was going until I got to the office that day. I remember having heels on being out there chunking around on rocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been difficult, but you did it. You mentioned you went to the Cape on Apollo 16. Then I know that you mentioned too that you worked up until 1973. So what was your last mission? Then did you help prepare things for the Skylab missions and that era?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.664538775439762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. With high achievers, high achievers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Military backgrounds, a lot of ego."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of egos. A lot of the problem too in the office—not a problem, but most of those guys were test pilots. We had a couple of them that were called in from duty in Vietnam. They found out when they were in Vietnam that they had been selected for astronauts. Ron Evans was one of them that I remember. But they weren’t used to desk jobs. These guys were pilots. They were flyers. So we had to help them understand what it meant to have an office. It was an adjustment for a lot of them to be in offices and have the routines and the meetings that were required."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The GALs, as you mentioned that you have contact with again, were you all close as friends? Because you mentioned you were the baby, so the ages must have ranged somewhat in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a range. I think Charlotte Maltese was [four or] five years older than I was. Toni Zahn was probably ten years older. Gay and Penny Study were both probably in their early 40s maybe. But we were all close. We were a close group. We were close with the people in the appearance section [also], because they supported the guys in their post-flight appearances. We were good friends in the office and outside of the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to imagine you had a lot of secrets. Not secrets as in secrets, but things that happened inside that office that just stayed inside that office that you were all pretty much compelled to keep there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.071709750488624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of egos. A lot of the problem too in the office—not a problem, but most of those guys were test pilots. We had a couple of them that were called in from duty in Vietnam. They found out when they were in Vietnam that they had been selected for astronauts. Ron Evans was one of them that I remember. But they weren’t used to desk jobs. These guys were pilots. They were flyers. So we had to help them understand what it meant to have an office. It was an adjustment for a lot of them to be in offices and have the routines and the meetings that were required."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The GALs, as you mentioned that you have contact with again, were you all close as friends? Because you mentioned you were the baby, so the ages must have ranged somewhat in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a range. I think Charlotte Maltese was [four or] five years older than I was. Toni Zahn was probably ten years older. Gay and Penny Study were both probably in their early 40s maybe. But we were all close. We were a close group. We were close with the people in the appearance section [also], because they supported the guys in their post-flight appearances. We were good friends in the office and outside of the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to imagine you had a lot of secrets. Not secrets as in secrets, but things that happened inside that office that just stayed inside that office that you were all pretty much compelled to keep there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, and that was just the nature of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a related note to that, we wanted to ask you if you had some special memories that you can share with us about any of the missions. I know you’ve already talked about some, but just anything else that might have popped into your mind of working in there. Well, one I could ask you about is the Snoopy Award."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.52412194498736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a range. I think Charlotte Maltese was [four or] five years older than I was. Toni Zahn was probably ten years older. Gay and Penny Study were both probably in their early 40s maybe. But we were all close. We were a close group. We were close with the people in the appearance section [also], because they supported the guys in their post-flight appearances. We were good friends in the office and outside of the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to imagine you had a lot of secrets. Not secrets as in secrets, but things that happened inside that office that just stayed inside that office that you were all pretty much compelled to keep there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, and that was just the nature of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a related note to that, we wanted to ask you if you had some special memories that you can share with us about any of the missions. I know you’ve already talked about some, but just anything else that might have popped into your mind of working in there. Well, one I could ask you about is the Snoopy Award."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My Silver Snoopy—and I wish I could remember what year. I’d have to dig [the information] out. But it was in the late ’60s. I think it was right around the Apollo 10, Apollo 11, because I did those back-to-back trips to the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What astronaut gave it to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.137913272208177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, and that was just the nature of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a related note to that, we wanted to ask you if you had some special memories that you can share with us about any of the missions. I know you’ve already talked about some, but just anything else that might have popped into your mind of working in there. Well, one I could ask you about is the Snoopy Award."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My Silver Snoopy—and I wish I could remember what year. I’d have to dig [the information] out. But it was in the late ’60s. I think it was right around the Apollo 10, Apollo 11, because I did those back-to-back trips to the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What astronaut gave it to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was Slayton, and I think I’ve got a picture of it. I’m pretty sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty special."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.451780631318666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One question I wanted to ask you. I was curious. You might be the person in the know. One of the things that I’ve been looking at—and I’m working on a larger article now—is about the wine and Skylab controversy. Since you worked with the Skylab 2 crew, and Kerwin as I understand it was one of the key proponents of bringing wine on board Skylab, I was wondering what are your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, boy, but I’m going to have to think about that. Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. I thought I would ask you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I hate to say unless I really think about it. But I think the reason Kerwin was such a proponent of it was for religious purposes, to be able to take communion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned so much about the astronaut office, and you mentioned of course the New 19. I was curious how did the office change when the Excess 11 [Astronaut Group 6] and the MOL [U.S. Air Force Manned Orbiting Laboratory] astronauts came on board."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.724200701465184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, boy, but I’m going to have to think about that. Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. I thought I would ask you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I hate to say unless I really think about it. But I think the reason Kerwin was such a proponent of it was for religious purposes, to be able to take communion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned so much about the astronaut office, and you mentioned of course the New 19. I was curious how did the office change when the Excess 11 [Astronaut Group 6] and the MOL [U.S. Air Force Manned Orbiting Laboratory] astronauts came on board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were integrated fairly easily. Now I think at some point sometimes they felt like maybe they were a little bit removed because they didn’t come in through a regular selection. They were transferred over from the MOL Program. But if [so,] it was very brief. They became astronauts just like the NASA astronauts. There were very [few issues, if any,] that I remember. That [would have included Robert L.] Crippen and—let’s see, [Henry W.] Hartsfield, [Jr.] was [also] MOL. [Robert F.] Overmyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Test yourself, aren’t you?\n\nOvermyer and [Donald H.] Peterson."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.026889668294649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I hate to say unless I really think about it. But I think the reason Kerwin was such a proponent of it was for religious purposes, to be able to take communion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned so much about the astronaut office, and you mentioned of course the New 19. I was curious how did the office change when the Excess 11 [Astronaut Group 6] and the MOL [U.S. Air Force Manned Orbiting Laboratory] astronauts came on board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were integrated fairly easily. Now I think at some point sometimes they felt like maybe they were a little bit removed because they didn’t come in through a regular selection. They were transferred over from the MOL Program. But if [so,] it was very brief. They became astronauts just like the NASA astronauts. There were very [few issues, if any,] that I remember. That [would have included Robert L.] Crippen and—let’s see, [Henry W.] Hartsfield, [Jr.] was [also] MOL. [Robert F.] Overmyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Test yourself, aren’t you?\n\nOvermyer and [Donald H.] Peterson."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Don Peterson. There was another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Richard H.] Truly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.36321074254961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were integrated fairly easily. Now I think at some point sometimes they felt like maybe they were a little bit removed because they didn’t come in through a regular selection. They were transferred over from the MOL Program. But if [so,] it was very brief. They became astronauts just like the NASA astronauts. There were very [few issues, if any,] that I remember. That [would have included Robert L.] Crippen and—let’s see, [Henry W.] Hartsfield, [Jr.] was [also] MOL. [Robert F.] Overmyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Test yourself, aren’t you?\n\nOvermyer and [Donald H.] Peterson."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Don Peterson. There was another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Richard H.] Truly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Dick. Yes, how could I forget Dick Truly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about dress and fashion at that time. What did you typically wear to work? Was there a requirement that women wear certain clothing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.5146786028329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Don Peterson. There was another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Richard H.] Truly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Dick. Yes, how could I forget Dick Truly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about dress and fashion at that time. What did you typically wear to work? Was there a requirement that women wear certain clothing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll tell you, there was a big flap over pantsuits. Yes, because we wore dresses, and I mean, women didn’t wear suits back then, but we did wear dresses to work. Then with women’s lib [liberation] of the ’60s and everything, and I remember the first time I wore a pantsuit to work, and you would have thought it was—oh, my gosh, yes. But we dressed professionally. Now that said, the skirts were short, because it was the ’60s. For some of us anyway, our skirts were a little bit shorter…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did pantsuits become part of acceptable dress for women by the time you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.794087336481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Dick. Yes, how could I forget Dick Truly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about dress and fashion at that time. What did you typically wear to work? Was there a requirement that women wear certain clothing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll tell you, there was a big flap over pantsuits. Yes, because we wore dresses, and I mean, women didn’t wear suits back then, but we did wear dresses to work. Then with women’s lib [liberation] of the ’60s and everything, and I remember the first time I wore a pantsuit to work, and you would have thought it was—oh, my gosh, yes. But we dressed professionally. Now that said, the skirts were short, because it was the ’60s. For some of us anyway, our skirts were a little bit shorter…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did pantsuits become part of acceptable dress for women by the time you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t going back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.21565259609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll tell you, there was a big flap over pantsuits. Yes, because we wore dresses, and I mean, women didn’t wear suits back then, but we did wear dresses to work. Then with women’s lib [liberation] of the ’60s and everything, and I remember the first time I wore a pantsuit to work, and you would have thought it was—oh, my gosh, yes. But we dressed professionally. Now that said, the skirts were short, because it was the ’60s. For some of us anyway, our skirts were a little bit shorter…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did pantsuits become part of acceptable dress for women by the time you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t going back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I still preferred dresses. I remember that [pantsuits were] a nice change, but I wasn’t quite into them. I think the women that were slightly older than I really took to the pantsuits, but I still felt like I needed to wear a dress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started with NASA, had you had some training in high school on things like typing and research skills?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.684058440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t going back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I still preferred dresses. I remember that [pantsuits were] a nice change, but I wasn’t quite into them. I think the women that were slightly older than I really took to the pantsuits, but I still felt like I needed to wear a dress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started with NASA, had you had some training in high school on things like typing and research skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had taken typing courses. I had taken shorthand and had done that purposely, because that’s what I was going to try to utilize. My intention was to get a job for a couple of years and earn enough money [to] go to college. Then I ended up in the astronaut office, and [that plan] just went out the window. But, I was prepared and was hired by NASA because of the [courses I took while in high school]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any extra time for additional training? Did NASA provide any?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.315620489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I still preferred dresses. I remember that [pantsuits were] a nice change, but I wasn’t quite into them. I think the women that were slightly older than I really took to the pantsuits, but I still felt like I needed to wear a dress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started with NASA, had you had some training in high school on things like typing and research skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had taken typing courses. I had taken shorthand and had done that purposely, because that’s what I was going to try to utilize. My intention was to get a job for a couple of years and earn enough money [to] go to college. Then I ended up in the astronaut office, and [that plan] just went out the window. But, I was prepared and was hired by NASA because of the [courses I took while in high school]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any extra time for additional training? Did NASA provide any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [but most were elective, not] the type of [training] that was required. We were offered things that we were able to take advantage of [if we were interested]. I wish I could think of something, an example. But it would enhance our positions, our jobs, and give us the opportunity for maybe a couple of extra points when it came to applying for another job. Outside activities [also] counted. We had started the softball team, and the guys played on it sometimes. If not, they would umpire or referee. [NASA] encouraged [training and] extra, [outside] activities. I remember going to [numerous] training classes, [and] I’ve got all my certificates somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious about that. The only other question that I had for you was how do you think that the Manned Spacecraft Center changed the Clear Lake area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, very much so. The astronaut office people went out [together]. It wasn’t that [you] were trying to keep separate, it was a convenience factor, [and you were working the same hours]. \"Hey, let’s go.\" We had opportunities to [mingle], because back then happy hour was real popular—especially around here at the Nassau Bay Hotel and the Kings Inn. There were [also] some darn good splashdown parties. The launch parties at the Cape, that’s where everybody wanted to be, and [then to] splashdown parties [here] in Houston. Yes, we partied hearty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time to celebrate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time to celebrate, yes we did. But families, [and] the wives, [also] participated [and partied]. We had special times where their kids would have an opportunity to go to the circus. I remember riding a bus with a busload of astronaut children to the circus up at the old Sam Houston Coliseum. Oh, rowdiest bunch. I don’t think I [volunteered] for that duty again.\\n\\n But we did have a lot of interaction in that way. It made us all feel a little bit more connected. Gay [Alford] was very good about keeping [the secretaries working closely together because we needed to cover each other]. We called her mother superior, and still do. If [the astronauts] were coming up the back hallway from the simulator, and you were closer to them than going around the front of the office to ask their own secretary to do something, the guys didn’t care, they’d pop in your office and ask you to do something, and you did it. That’s why we all had to be pretty close and work as a real unit, as a tight unit, because you couldn’t say, \"No, I don’t work for you, get around there to the other side.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it helped with all of the secretaries being close, because then there wasn’t that territorial of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was territorial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time to celebrate, yes we did. But families, [and] the wives, [also] participated [and partied]. We had special times where their kids would have an opportunity to go to the circus. I remember riding a bus with a busload of astronaut children to the circus up at the old Sam Houston Coliseum. Oh, rowdiest bunch. I don’t think I [volunteered] for that duty again.\\n\\n But we did have a lot of interaction in that way. It made us all feel a little bit more connected. Gay [Alford] was very good about keeping [the secretaries working closely together because we needed to cover each other]. We called her mother superior, and still do. If [the astronauts] were coming up the back hallway from the simulator, and you were closer to them than going around the front of the office to ask their own secretary to do something, the guys didn’t care, they’d pop in your office and ask you to do something, and you did it. That’s why we all had to be pretty close and work as a real unit, as a tight unit, because you couldn’t say, \"No, I don’t work for you, get around there to the other side.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it helped with all of the secretaries being close, because then there wasn’t that territorial of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was territorial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but you got over it. You got over it. Those were coveted jobs. [The secretarial positions] were highly coveted jobs, [and] we were reminded that they were highly coveted jobs. There wasn’t competition per se, but I think there was, [because] I know, personally, I wanted to be known as the best of the group. I think each one of us did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there rules, either written or unwritten, about socializing with the astronauts, as in on a personal basis, not as a family basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was territorial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but you got over it. You got over it. Those were coveted jobs. [The secretarial positions] were highly coveted jobs, [and] we were reminded that they were highly coveted jobs. There wasn’t competition per se, but I think there was, [because] I know, personally, I wanted to be known as the best of the group. I think each one of us did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there rules, either written or unwritten, about socializing with the astronauts, as in on a personal basis, not as a family basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, because Admiral Shepard, his philosophy was, and he promoted it too, was that we were family. [But] there was nothing that I ever saw in writing or otherwise. I don’t know that from the astronauts’ standpoint, I don’t know if anything was said to them about it. It was the unwritten rule, [but] there was nothing official or otherwise that I was ever aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re curious about what you felt to be the most challenging aspect of your job during the seven years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but you got over it. You got over it. Those were coveted jobs. [The secretarial positions] were highly coveted jobs, [and] we were reminded that they were highly coveted jobs. There wasn’t competition per se, but I think there was, [because] I know, personally, I wanted to be known as the best of the group. I think each one of us did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there rules, either written or unwritten, about socializing with the astronauts, as in on a personal basis, not as a family basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, because Admiral Shepard, his philosophy was, and he promoted it too, was that we were family. [But] there was nothing that I ever saw in writing or otherwise. I don’t know that from the astronauts’ standpoint, I don’t know if anything was said to them about it. It was the unwritten rule, [but] there was nothing official or otherwise that I was ever aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re curious about what you felt to be the most challenging aspect of your job during the seven years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, [that] we were required to wear so many hats. That was really the most challenging part of it. The work was so diversified, and it varied so much depending on which astronaut you were working for too. A lot of them had outside interests that you tried to help them with. But you were public relations, you were mother hen, you were a screener; it was a difficult job. I think that was probably the most challenging part of it, in addition to the having to be able to recognize the priorities when you’re working with ten astronauts with varying [responsibilities on different] missions [and programs]. Each one of them thought their [work] was the most important and their mission was the most important. Having to prioritize, that was really tough, really tough trying to explain to them, \"No, you have to wait in line, because this guy has,\"—they were not used to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to share with us today? I think we’ve pretty much gone over our thoughts. Did you have any other thing you would like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00113:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, because Admiral Shepard, his philosophy was, and he promoted it too, was that we were family. [But] there was nothing that I ever saw in writing or otherwise. I don’t know that from the astronauts’ standpoint, I don’t know if anything was said to them about it. It was the unwritten rule, [but] there was nothing official or otherwise that I was ever aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re curious about what you felt to be the most challenging aspect of your job during the seven years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, [that] we were required to wear so many hats. That was really the most challenging part of it. The work was so diversified, and it varied so much depending on which astronaut you were working for too. A lot of them had outside interests that you tried to help them with. But you were public relations, you were mother hen, you were a screener; it was a difficult job. I think that was probably the most challenging part of it, in addition to the having to be able to recognize the priorities when you’re working with ten astronauts with varying [responsibilities on different] missions [and programs]. Each one of them thought their [work] was the most important and their mission was the most important. Having to prioritize, that was really tough, really tough trying to explain to them, \"No, you have to wait in line, because this guy has,\"—they were not used to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to share with us today? I think we’ve pretty much gone over our thoughts. Did you have any other thing you would like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I’ll probably think of a hundred things. None of it probably makes any difference whatsoever. That’s okay too. There was just a lot of stuff [and] we were really so lucky. To this day I know how very lucky I was to be there at that time. Talk about stumbling into something, it was just tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like a truly exciting moment that just kept going on for seven years. We thank you for giving us your time this afternoon and sharing that with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00092:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 112.60996560943782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Glad to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'd like for you to start by telling us what were your roles and responsibilities in this program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out as the cardiovascular discipline lead for the Shuttle-Mir Program that was Norm [Norman] Thagard's flight, the whole STS-71 Mir 18 experience, which meant I was the lead and the point of contact for the cardiovascular set of investigations that were part of the human life sciences investigations. I eventually became the deputy project scientist for that assisting Peggy Whitson. Then for the NASA-Mir Program, which is the second wave, the Shannon Lucid and following flights, I became the project scientist for the human life sciences investigations, all the disciplines of the human life sciences, including cardiovascular, and neurosensory and musculoskeletal, and all that kind of stuff.\\n\\n After a couple of increments of that, I was asked to function as the mission scientist for the NASA-Mir Program, and I was the mission scientist specifically for NASA 4 and NASA 5, the Jerry Linenger and Mike Foale missions. As a mission scientist, I was responsible for not only the human life sciences, but all the other sciences, the microgravity, the biology, the space sciences. Everything else that was in the area of science, I was at least nominally responsible for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Each one of those roles were extremely busy. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to build from that first experience to the last experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00092:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 33.48051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "\"Call me. My people will call your people.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was on your watch that the collision took place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. Maybe it was a near miss. It's really sad, because it was only a couple of years ago, but I forget if it was a near miss or the collision. Let's see. Linenger was the fire, and Mike Foale was the collision. I was the mission scientist for both of those. I was over there for--no, I was over there for Blaha's flight, so I wasn't over there for Linenger's flight. [It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One could say it kind of starts running together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never believe anybody else who says, \"Gee, I don't recall if it was the collision or the near miss.\" But in my case, I don't remember if it was the collision or the near miss, but I know that when the collision occurred, it was--yes, that's right, that was the collision. It was the sleep study. The commander had done the sleep study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it affect the science, the collision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00550:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.529569000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a consultant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, what they decided to do is to do an in-house design again, very much what we did in the Shuttle Program. They put together a team from all the NASA Centers. Then they got about ten of us that were involved in the Apollo Program, and they would use us as mentors to the younger people so that there are various disciplines in various groups. We work with them to give our experience that we would go through, or like in many cases, we would tell them, “Go look for this report, because we did these tests, and you’ll see what the results were from them.”\\n\\n People like—one of them was John Young. Ken [Thomas Kenneth “T.K”] Mattingly [II] is another. Bob Sieck from Kennedy, Bob [Robert S.] Ryan from Huntsville, Tom Modlin, Jim Jacks. I’m trying to think of all the people. Oh, Warren [L.] Brasher, who was head of the Propulsion Division.\\n\\n We worked with these people and sort of guided them into—our experience before, there’s a number of things that, “Don’t do that, because we tried it, and it didn’t work. Try something like this.” It was a good experience. I think it was good for the youngsters and also for us to be able to talk to them and pass on to them the experience that we have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they generally accepting of your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. Matter of fact, it got to the point where they would keep coming for you for information, to the point that, like right now, I’m in the process of reviewing some reports, and they send me a report on Friday afternoon. “We want your comments by Monday morning.” It’s like I spend all weekend working on reports. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your hours haven’t changed a lot since those early days. [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00550:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.7649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. Matter of fact, it got to the point where they would keep coming for you for information, to the point that, like right now, I’m in the process of reviewing some reports, and they send me a report on Friday afternoon. “We want your comments by Monday morning.” It’s like I spend all weekend working on reports. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your hours haven’t changed a lot since those early days. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They were very receptive as far as the things that you said. They seem to listen and they seem to absorb what you’re talking about. No, it’s very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And quite a benefit for them to have all those years of experience behind—you, as you know, didn’t have that advantage when you were doing Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the thing that I hope that this program will be successful, because we do have that background, and what we’re trying to do is to have, again, a small increase in the capability that we had before, and I think it will make it successful, and the schedule will be quicker, and the cost will be less as a result of that, so I’m really hopeful that it will be successful. I really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as you look back on your career with NASA, and as you say, it’s still going on, what would you consider to be the most challenging aspect of that career, either a program or an incident or a time period or a position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00550:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think that it was gratifying that they thought that what you were doing was important and they wanted to do the same thing, too. But I still stay very close to where I went to school, the University of Vermont [Burlington, Vermont]. I’m on an advisory board for math and engineering, again with the idea to get these younger people to get the best opportunity they can to be able to go out and do things. I think that’s pretty rewarding to do. I found out that this position on this advisory board is supposedly for three years, and then I figured out the other day that I’ve been on the board for twenty-five years now. [Laughter] So I guess it’s working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re doing a good job. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they like what I’m doing or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that. But it’s rewarding to have people come along behind you and be accomplishing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven’t talked about or any specific projects? Any anecdotes that you’d like to share? Anybody, any person that you’d like to say something about before we close?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00550:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they like what I’m doing or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that. But it’s rewarding to have people come along behind you and be accomplishing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven’t talked about or any specific projects? Any anecdotes that you’d like to share? Anybody, any person that you’d like to say something about before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there are just many, many people that you’d like to talk about, and how they helped. I think the first experience that I had in program management with the Little Joe II Program that I worked with their program manager at Convair, Jack Hurt. He was very helpful to teach me [about program management]. I think during the Apollo and the Shuttle Program, again, an individual at North American, or Rockwell now, Charles Feltz, was very useful to me. With the development of the thermal protection system [for the Shuttle], Jack Milton at Lockheed was very helpful along that line.\\n\\n When I came to Headquarters, in addition to Hans Mark, the Administrator, Jim [James M.] Beggs, was very useful as far as learning things from Jim. We’re still very, very good friends.\\n\\n I go all the way back to college days, and I had one professor that taught a single course in aerodynamics, [Howard Duchacek]. We only had one semester course. He’s dead now, but I’m still close to his wife, and I used to kid him about based on that one course, I became Chief of Aeronautics at JSC, so I thought that was a pretty good course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An effective course. [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00550:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that. But it’s rewarding to have people come along behind you and be accomplishing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven’t talked about or any specific projects? Any anecdotes that you’d like to share? Anybody, any person that you’d like to say something about before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there are just many, many people that you’d like to talk about, and how they helped. I think the first experience that I had in program management with the Little Joe II Program that I worked with their program manager at Convair, Jack Hurt. He was very helpful to teach me [about program management]. I think during the Apollo and the Shuttle Program, again, an individual at North American, or Rockwell now, Charles Feltz, was very useful to me. With the development of the thermal protection system [for the Shuttle], Jack Milton at Lockheed was very helpful along that line.\\n\\n When I came to Headquarters, in addition to Hans Mark, the Administrator, Jim [James M.] Beggs, was very useful as far as learning things from Jim. We’re still very, very good friends.\\n\\n I go all the way back to college days, and I had one professor that taught a single course in aerodynamics, [Howard Duchacek]. We only had one semester course. He’s dead now, but I’m still close to his wife, and I used to kid him about based on that one course, I became Chief of Aeronautics at JSC, so I thought that was a pretty good course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An effective course. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I’ve been blessed [to work] with a lot of good, interesting people in my lifetime, and it’s been a lot of fun. It really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I thank you for coming today and sharing your career with us again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 38.664852891740864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Summer of '97 was a long summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A triumph over the unexpected though, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got through it. I think the lesson there is, just like after the fire the previous February, that these things will happen. They may not be as dramatic as a fire or as a collision. Things always happen, and you can't predict them, and you have to be ready to respond to it. We're ready. We've passed the lessons on to the ISS folks. Many of us are actually working over to work station programs in one capacity or another, so hopefully that experience will be transferred over. Hopefully, we won't have anything as serious or as dramatic, or things will be even smoother, but you never know. You have to be prepared for it, and I think we know how to respond in those kind of cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The proof is there. Did you have problems after the fire as well, with the science area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only that the crew were so busy dealing with the fire and its aftermath, that we had to reschedule a lot of activities. So, again there, too, it was on that mission that we had one experiment not get done, but that was mainly for scheduling reasons.\\n\\n There was an EVA scheduled for fairly late in the flight, and for one reason or another, it kept getting delayed, and we had time-lined that one experiment to occur after the EVA, and it just kept getting pushed out to the right, and then we just ran out of mission. We kept it on board, hoping to get it done during the next flight. Of course, we had the collision, so that regrouped all of our thoughts again. Finally, we just said, \"Hey, we tried, and it just couldn't happen.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about how the EVA in science worked. You mentioned that a little bit in the press conference the other day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.953846839184901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have. I had a great group supporting me over at Lockheed-Martin, in the Mission Science Office. The operations engineers also, mostly from Lockheed, were just excellent, very dedicated. Many of them spent a long time in Moscow, usually on a six-week rotation basis. Our operations lead would be there for the whole mission, so four to six months, in Moscow. And some have families. Some took their families with them, some didn't, so there are challenges there as well, on a personal level. Just the daily--it's long hours over there. It's not easy. Of course, if they're there in the wintertime, they have to deal with the climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long, cold hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Long, cold hours. Lot of dark hours outside. So it's been a challenge all around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for you, all that you had to coordinate and implement and develop. You must have caught yourself coming and going a couple of times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some days, yes. I wasn't sure if I ever got any sleep on some days. So, yes, it was very challenging. As I said, the early part of the program, when we were trying to put the program together and we really didn't know what our resource envelopes were going to be, \"Now, how much can we do? How much should we ask that we can do?\" Kind of working in the dark a little bit, and that sort of gradually progressed to putting a real mission together. As we were doing some of the missions, we had the fire and the accident that caused us to regroup. There are very, very few slow days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program comes to a close the next couple of weeks, I know your job's not going to be over. It's going to continue, but it'll take a different pace. As you look over the whole program, from what you've told us for the last hour or so, I have to assume that it far exceeded the expectations that you had hoped."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.504274265761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Long, cold hours. Lot of dark hours outside. So it's been a challenge all around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for you, all that you had to coordinate and implement and develop. You must have caught yourself coming and going a couple of times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some days, yes. I wasn't sure if I ever got any sleep on some days. So, yes, it was very challenging. As I said, the early part of the program, when we were trying to put the program together and we really didn't know what our resource envelopes were going to be, \"Now, how much can we do? How much should we ask that we can do?\" Kind of working in the dark a little bit, and that sort of gradually progressed to putting a real mission together. As we were doing some of the missions, we had the fire and the accident that caused us to regroup. There are very, very few slow days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program comes to a close the next couple of weeks, I know your job's not going to be over. It's going to continue, but it'll take a different pace. As you look over the whole program, from what you've told us for the last hour or so, I have to assume that it far exceeded the expectations that you had hoped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. Well, number one, one thing I didn't mention is, somewhere along the way, we had only started with five missions and then they added two more long-duration flights. This happened probably in late '95. In fact, it was about two weeks after the birth of my daughter, so there was that to juggle as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked that in? That was good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.27827201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'll be long-lasting and a lot of this will be wrapped into the ISS research, to make it better, so I think the return from ISS will be better because of having done Phase One. We won't waste a lot of time on ISS doing things that we know are maybe not the right way to do it or not suitable for doing things on a space station platform. We can redirect that to other channels. All in all, I think, just having had the experience will make developing station a lot better, a lot easier, and save money, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about yourself? Something you learned about yourself or about your stamina, if nothing else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly learned that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or as a scientist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly learned about my stamina and my patience. I mean, I was amazed at what we had to endure in some cases. Maybe in an earlier time, I would have just said, \"Look, you know, King's X. I'm outta here. I've had enough. This is too much.\" And after a while, you just said, \"Okay, well there's another thing we have to deal with, and we're just going to do it,\" and we did it.\\n\\n From a scientific perspective, most of my background was in life sciences, and then all of a sudden, as this job came along and this program expanded, I had to learn all about microgravity, all about some of the biological things, about the earth sciences and learn what all that science means and why we're doing it, and some of the physics that I had to understand, which I never did in college, but I finally got forced into me. So that certainly broadened my horizons about, gee, there's a lot more we can do here in space than just looking at what happens to crew members that I was not aware of before. That certainly expanded my horizons. So I have a better understanding of what we're trying to do on station as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll be moving toward that? Is that what you mentioned earlier?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.0869689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly learned that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or as a scientist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly learned about my stamina and my patience. I mean, I was amazed at what we had to endure in some cases. Maybe in an earlier time, I would have just said, \"Look, you know, King's X. I'm outta here. I've had enough. This is too much.\" And after a while, you just said, \"Okay, well there's another thing we have to deal with, and we're just going to do it,\" and we did it.\\n\\n From a scientific perspective, most of my background was in life sciences, and then all of a sudden, as this job came along and this program expanded, I had to learn all about microgravity, all about some of the biological things, about the earth sciences and learn what all that science means and why we're doing it, and some of the physics that I had to understand, which I never did in college, but I finally got forced into me. So that certainly broadened my horizons about, gee, there's a lot more we can do here in space than just looking at what happens to crew members that I was not aware of before. That certainly expanded my horizons. So I have a better understanding of what we're trying to do on station as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll be moving toward that? Is that what you mentioned earlier?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm going to be focusing on the life sciences experiments back again, so this was kind of a blip on my career, if you will. It was kind of an oddity, if you will. But because of that, now I know how to do this, but I also understand why other people are doing other science, and why that's just as important. It's not, \"Oh, that's all that other stuff.\" It's like, \"Okay, I've been there. I know why we're doing this, too.\" So it puts everything into better perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that it all kind of melds together at some point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the only two animal experiments that we did was, one was this quail egg. I'm going to call it \"incubator\" for short, because we used an incubator system on board the Mir, and that was only about a seventeen-day experiment because that's the time of gestation for the quail eggs. We didn't actually hatch them on orbit. We didn't want birds flying around. We were just really strictly looking at how does the embryo genesis within an egg develop over that course of seventeen days. Again, since seventeen days is about the maximum for a shuttle flight, that would have been very difficult to carry out on shuttle. We wanted to have that pad on either side that we could do the experiment fully.\\n\\n We also had one experiment that actually utilized beetles we got from central Asia. And that was more of a circadian rhythm kind of experiment, looking at how we altered the light and dark cycles, and how do the beetles respond in terms of activity levels and things like that. But in terms of other animal experiments, we did not do those on Mir. We didn't try a centrifuge facility. I think, number one, we didn't have the resources or the capability to fly a large enough centrifuge on Mir that would not have disrupted the whole system itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all I have. You have anything else you'd like to add at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think we've pretty much covered it all. I think, just to wrap up, as I said, it's been probably one of the most challenging things I've ever done over the last six years or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been a full six years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Been a very full six years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe a ten-year span in a six-year block."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think we've pretty much covered it all. I think, just to wrap up, as I said, it's been probably one of the most challenging things I've ever done over the last six years or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been a full six years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Been a very full six years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe a ten-year span in a six-year block."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels like ten years some days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you luck in your ISS adventures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00816:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Been a very full six years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe a ten-year span in a six-year block."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels like ten years some days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you luck in your ISS adventures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.760337034490774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long time. Well, it was, you know, I don't know. Months. Probably months, not a year. And I think it's six, seven, six months, maybe five months. I don't remember how long, but it was long enough to be nervous. But it was wintertime. It was like maybe January or February, and I was graduating in a few months and things are getting tight. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the most common question from 1961 to present is, of course, why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just answered that. There was an alternative to going to Vietnam into the service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the recruiters that came on campus, was that the first time you had heard about Peace Corps or when had you first heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when it first started with JFK. Of course, everybody, in my generation Peace Corps in everybody's imagination was magical. So there was a predisposition, a very positive one about Peace Corps just, you know, leading up to this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your friends, family or your reactions when you were accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.84481892721197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just answered that. There was an alternative to going to Vietnam into the service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the recruiters that came on campus, was that the first time you had heard about Peace Corps or when had you first heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when it first started with JFK. Of course, everybody, in my generation Peace Corps in everybody's imagination was magical. So there was a predisposition, a very positive one about Peace Corps just, you know, leading up to this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your friends, family or your reactions when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Besides my aunt being so impressed that someone from Washington, D.C., would actually call the house for me, you know, I don't remember any big reaction. My parents were behind me 100 percent. And I really don't remember much input. This is a long time ago, it's 40 years. I don't remember any friends saying, are you crazy? Or that's good. It was just, you know, I was leaving college, which is in Ohio. I grew up in New York. My parents at that point had relocated to, they were relocating to Florida. And so it was a lot of people I was leaving that I probably wouldn't see in a while, maybe ever. And so there was really no significant reaction to, you know, either way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if there were any reservations on your or their part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.27202103023552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when it first started with JFK. Of course, everybody, in my generation Peace Corps in everybody's imagination was magical. So there was a predisposition, a very positive one about Peace Corps just, you know, leading up to this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your friends, family or your reactions when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Besides my aunt being so impressed that someone from Washington, D.C., would actually call the house for me, you know, I don't remember any big reaction. My parents were behind me 100 percent. And I really don't remember much input. This is a long time ago, it's 40 years. I don't remember any friends saying, are you crazy? Or that's good. It was just, you know, I was leaving college, which is in Ohio. I grew up in New York. My parents at that point had relocated to, they were relocating to Florida. And so it was a lot of people I was leaving that I probably wouldn't see in a while, maybe ever. And so there was really no significant reaction to, you know, either way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if there were any reservations on your or their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Nothing like that at all. Nothing negative, ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 36.968912255817244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Besides my aunt being so impressed that someone from Washington, D.C., would actually call the house for me, you know, I don't remember any big reaction. My parents were behind me 100 percent. And I really don't remember much input. This is a long time ago, it's 40 years. I don't remember any friends saying, are you crazy? Or that's good. It was just, you know, I was leaving college, which is in Ohio. I grew up in New York. My parents at that point had relocated to, they were relocating to Florida. And so it was a lot of people I was leaving that I probably wouldn't see in a while, maybe ever. And so there was really no significant reaction to, you know, either way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if there were any reservations on your or their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Nothing like that at all. Nothing negative, ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't have one. It's one of my complaints in the Peace Corps is that they could do a lot better at that sort of thing. It's an organizational thing. You know, it's not like I was going into a country that there wasn't things to do. Like, we got these people coming, what are we going to do with them? Well, there are a lot of things that could be done. And so basically, I was told to go to this town called Santa Cruz. There were two volunteers that were leaving soon and they were going to meet with me and talk to me. But there was no project. And basically, they said, we'll find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the two volunteers had previously been there for two years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.83183143630084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was there with my wife and daughter, Mackenzie and Phyllis three years ago, I think it was, and met the co-op again. Most of them of there still, are older, and they brought us out to the land and showed me what they're doing with it. They're still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good thing you pulled out. That's sustainable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was a very successful thing. But part of that, really, the people were like. I could never have done that with, you know, people that were less committed and that didn't believe in it, you know, and energetic and smart enough to do it. The credit goes to them. I mean, without me, probably couldn't have done it. But without those kind of people, that never would have happened. If I had done to that other town, you know, there are lots of other places in Costa Rica where this kind of thing could have taken place, and maybe some of them could have been successful, but it has to come down to the people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. So one last question about the land reform. Was that countrywide?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was just in the area because there was the ranch that was quite large and they took part of it to get enough land to each farmer through the co-op. This is all came through the co-op and there's the co-op is responsible to pay the bonds back. If they hadn't paid the bonds back, they could have, you know, the government and the work that was done would have been a scandal, a scandalosa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So going back a few steps, we talked about the project that you started or continued. Another question is how did you prepare yourself and others for your Peace Corps service? So your friends and family and yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.590923818112042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was a very successful thing. But part of that, really, the people were like. I could never have done that with, you know, people that were less committed and that didn't believe in it, you know, and energetic and smart enough to do it. The credit goes to them. I mean, without me, probably couldn't have done it. But without those kind of people, that never would have happened. If I had done to that other town, you know, there are lots of other places in Costa Rica where this kind of thing could have taken place, and maybe some of them could have been successful, but it has to come down to the people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. So one last question about the land reform. Was that countrywide?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was just in the area because there was the ranch that was quite large and they took part of it to get enough land to each farmer through the co-op. This is all came through the co-op and there's the co-op is responsible to pay the bonds back. If they hadn't paid the bonds back, they could have, you know, the government and the work that was done would have been a scandal, a scandalosa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So going back a few steps, we talked about the project that you started or continued. Another question is how did you prepare yourself and others for your Peace Corps service? So your friends and family and yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't prepare any friends or family. They didn't need the preparation, I did, and the preparation, as weak as it was, was done by the Peace Corps through the training on the mountain top of Arecibo, Puerto Rico, the rainforest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about that then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 30.65658202012449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was just in the area because there was the ranch that was quite large and they took part of it to get enough land to each farmer through the co-op. This is all came through the co-op and there's the co-op is responsible to pay the bonds back. If they hadn't paid the bonds back, they could have, you know, the government and the work that was done would have been a scandal, a scandalosa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So going back a few steps, we talked about the project that you started or continued. Another question is how did you prepare yourself and others for your Peace Corps service? So your friends and family and yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't prepare any friends or family. They didn't need the preparation, I did, and the preparation, as weak as it was, was done by the Peace Corps through the training on the mountain top of Arecibo, Puerto Rico, the rainforest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about that then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your training and what did it entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.771622609464185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a thing about not getting together, trying to stay by site because, you know, it was so lonely and so difficult that if they didn't make that rule, you know, we'd be there every weekend with each other. And a lot of folks did that. I didn't really. And there was a volunteer in the town and he was there for a little while before, when I got there, and he left. Over the years, there were volunteers close by, you know, a bus ride away, but basically, I was basically by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like your friends then were Costa Rican men mainly, from the pool hall and the co-op?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly guys. I was friendly with some volunteers. When We'd end up in San Jose, we'd go to movies and dinner and stuff like that. There was a couple of volunteers I was closer to than others, that I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, can you think of any specific relationships with, for example, your Costa Rican friends and how that impacted your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A relationship in what way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Friendship or people that you spent time with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.746247343849095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly guys. I was friendly with some volunteers. When We'd end up in San Jose, we'd go to movies and dinner and stuff like that. There was a couple of volunteers I was closer to than others, that I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, can you think of any specific relationships with, for example, your Costa Rican friends and how that impacted your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A relationship in what way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Friendship or people that you spent time with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a guy there who I met when I was first there, named Cokie, he spoke some English. He had spent a semester at the university in America until he partied so much they had to send him home. But he was there and he was introduced to me my first day there. And he's the one who helped me find the house with the two ladies that lived there. And he's also the one who helped me when I moved. And his mother is the one who was a terrible cook. And so we became very close. There was a co-op of, I mean, an accountant named Fernand Perez, and he was a great guy and we became friends. He helped do the accounting for the co-op, and I think he still does. As a matter of fact I saw him on the way back three years ago, I saw him. Girls, you know, but not too many. Mostly, Costa Rican girls really couldn't date seriously because that had very strong ramifications. And yet, you know, feel responsible for some guy you just got there. So I had a lot of friends coming from the States to visit me, which happened. I had a number of friends come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did that happen, first of all, how is your communication with the States? How did you communicate and how did your friends come?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.82916371538788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A relationship in what way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Friendship or people that you spent time with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a guy there who I met when I was first there, named Cokie, he spoke some English. He had spent a semester at the university in America until he partied so much they had to send him home. But he was there and he was introduced to me my first day there. And he's the one who helped me find the house with the two ladies that lived there. And he's also the one who helped me when I moved. And his mother is the one who was a terrible cook. And so we became very close. There was a co-op of, I mean, an accountant named Fernand Perez, and he was a great guy and we became friends. He helped do the accounting for the co-op, and I think he still does. As a matter of fact I saw him on the way back three years ago, I saw him. Girls, you know, but not too many. Mostly, Costa Rican girls really couldn't date seriously because that had very strong ramifications. And yet, you know, feel responsible for some guy you just got there. So I had a lot of friends coming from the States to visit me, which happened. I had a number of friends come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did that happen, first of all, how is your communication with the States? How did you communicate and how did your friends come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Letters. Matter of fact, the town of Santa Cruz did not have a phone until I was there for a couple of years. It had telegraph which had a whole other, there was no privacy in communications. There's a war stories about that you can relate, but mostly just by letters. It had to be read, corresponded by letters. You waited for the mailman to come. He'd ride up in a bicycle and hand me a letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how did your friends find you? Your friends from the States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.159461377022076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Letters. Matter of fact, the town of Santa Cruz did not have a phone until I was there for a couple of years. It had telegraph which had a whole other, there was no privacy in communications. There's a war stories about that you can relate, but mostly just by letters. It had to be read, corresponded by letters. You waited for the mailman to come. He'd ride up in a bicycle and hand me a letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how did your friends find you? Your friends from the States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Drew them a map. Said fly to San Jose and I'll pick you up. So they didn't go into my site. It was a couple of them over a period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about the end of your first year. What were some notable events or reflections, joys, woes, unexpected events, relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know if I could chronologically do this. In the first year, I don't know what I did. I knew in six months I was dreaming in Spanish and joking. I don't even remember, in the three years I was there, when Pepe Figueres came in. I have to go back and I'd have to look at that. So and the stories that I've been telling here are over the period of time, there's not necessarily a sequence of it, although there's some of that chronologically. But I didn't finish like one year and think about, oh, you know, I've been here one year. Now what are we going to do? It was just one day at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about the end of your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.999335033360586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know if I could chronologically do this. In the first year, I don't know what I did. I knew in six months I was dreaming in Spanish and joking. I don't even remember, in the three years I was there, when Pepe Figueres came in. I have to go back and I'd have to look at that. So and the stories that I've been telling here are over the period of time, there's not necessarily a sequence of it, although there's some of that chronologically. But I didn't finish like one year and think about, oh, you know, I've been here one year. Now what are we going to do? It was just one day at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about the end of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, uh. I always felt that I was emotionally a very strong person. I think I am today. But it was tough for me to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't talked very much about this, but the night before I left, I spent the night in the same hotel in San Jose that they put us up. It's a better hotel. And I said I spent that night by myself and I sat in bed and it was. I knew. It was time to leave. It took an emotional toll on me that I didn't really realize so much, like you'd think I did. But that night I just said, jeez, I don't think I can stay here another day. I just had to get out, I had to go home. And I had been home, it wasn't like I'd spent three years away from home. You know, my parents sent me plane tickets, I'd come back home for a few days around Christmas, maybe, or holidays. They live in Florida so I can fly right to Miami and they'd pick me up. I'd be home in three hours by car once they got there. In one 24 hour period, I made sure that I rode a boat, a horse, a motorcycle, a car, and an airplane. I worked that out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To go back to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.665927814845094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, uh. I always felt that I was emotionally a very strong person. I think I am today. But it was tough for me to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't talked very much about this, but the night before I left, I spent the night in the same hotel in San Jose that they put us up. It's a better hotel. And I said I spent that night by myself and I sat in bed and it was. I knew. It was time to leave. It took an emotional toll on me that I didn't really realize so much, like you'd think I did. But that night I just said, jeez, I don't think I can stay here another day. I just had to get out, I had to go home. And I had been home, it wasn't like I'd spent three years away from home. You know, my parents sent me plane tickets, I'd come back home for a few days around Christmas, maybe, or holidays. They live in Florida so I can fly right to Miami and they'd pick me up. I'd be home in three hours by car once they got there. In one 24 hour period, I made sure that I rode a boat, a horse, a motorcycle, a car, and an airplane. I worked that out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To go back to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The boat was the hard one, but I did everything. I think I got that horse, matter of fact, I had to get that horse in the afternoon to make it work. Yeah, that was kind of funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what about the last day in your town? Do you remember that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.864018806090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, another guy I knew he lost his job in the mortgage business because our biggest mortgage company in Florida closed. He had five thousand dollars and I was forty five thousand dollars in debt to it and to a senile old lady. Probably didn't even remember she had loaned me the money. And I said, we can do something. We can do this, this repping business. We can sell stuff. We were too young and stupid to know that you couldn't do that. And so we did it and we built a very nice business and I paid her off every penny. So we bought a rather large repping firm in the Southeast and in four states out of Texas, so I was successful there. But I think the success in the Peace Corps really, really translated to this idea that I could do, I could do anything I really put my mind to. Nothing's going to stop me. Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the next question is evaluate your service in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. So the first goal is to provide technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to care to talk more about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then the second is to help promote better understanding of Americans by others. How did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.404465340100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to care to talk more about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then the second is to help promote better understanding of Americans by others. How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'll tell you a story. It's a great story. When the man, when we walked on the moon, I happened to be in a meeting with my co-op in one of the shacks, uninhabited shacks, because the family had left or something. Dirt floor, windows, no windows, doors making windows, no glass or open. The tin roof was hot. There was somebody bought a radio, battery operated radio, which is all they had, no TVs. There was no electricity. And when he walked on the moon that the American announcer was doing it and there was a Spanish speaking announcer talking, translating, so I could hear part of the English and then the Spanish. And when he said he's on the moon, there must have been, I think, eight guys who were there. And they just turned and looked at me. What a connection. Jesus, I was on the moon, I was on the moon, I was an American and I was there. They looked at me like, wow, that was pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.9443969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I went to town that night. One of the young ladies with the babies who'd give me the other side of the house said that the God was going to, you know, God didn't like that. I don't know what she said. Whatever. Well, all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's the understanding. And I have other, you know, there's a lot of connection in three years of Costa Rica. There's all kinds of Costa Ricans. Parts are the guys from the other political party that didn't like the land reform bill, they were friends of mine. Really good friends of mine, and, I mean, I could talk about all kinds of different people, levels of interaction. You know, people had restaurants, people with the coldest beer in town, people who, a painter who couldn't say my name for three years. Hola, Bush! Called me Bush, couldn't say Bruce. You know, kids I played soccer with. The guy who worked at the wood factory. So, I mean, just a million people, you know, I was out there, I didn't hide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on the opposite end, how did you promote understanding of Costa Ricans to your American friends and family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just by kind of talking about Ticos. I mean, they're a very special breed of people, they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you tell them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.160441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's the understanding. And I have other, you know, there's a lot of connection in three years of Costa Rica. There's all kinds of Costa Ricans. Parts are the guys from the other political party that didn't like the land reform bill, they were friends of mine. Really good friends of mine, and, I mean, I could talk about all kinds of different people, levels of interaction. You know, people had restaurants, people with the coldest beer in town, people who, a painter who couldn't say my name for three years. Hola, Bush! Called me Bush, couldn't say Bruce. You know, kids I played soccer with. The guy who worked at the wood factory. So, I mean, just a million people, you know, I was out there, I didn't hide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on the opposite end, how did you promote understanding of Costa Ricans to your American friends and family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just by kind of talking about Ticos. I mean, they're a very special breed of people, they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're very, very pacifico. They're very peaceful people, very pro-American. They're very proud of their democracy. They're very proud that they don't have an army. They're very proud that they produce more teachers and export teachers to all over Latin America. They're proud of the friendship that America has with them. The beauty of the land, I mean, it's a tiny, tiny country. I don't know, in a jet plane it may take you minutes to go from one coast to another once you're rocking and rolling up in the air. And there are four or five different types of zones there, deserts and jungles and mountains and volcanoes and Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean coasts. Crazy deep rivers. The world's second rivers. I mean, it's, for a tiny country it's got a lot of power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just a couple more questions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.40049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just by kind of talking about Ticos. I mean, they're a very special breed of people, they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're very, very pacifico. They're very peaceful people, very pro-American. They're very proud of their democracy. They're very proud that they don't have an army. They're very proud that they produce more teachers and export teachers to all over Latin America. They're proud of the friendship that America has with them. The beauty of the land, I mean, it's a tiny, tiny country. I don't know, in a jet plane it may take you minutes to go from one coast to another once you're rocking and rolling up in the air. And there are four or five different types of zones there, deserts and jungles and mountains and volcanoes and Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean coasts. Crazy deep rivers. The world's second rivers. I mean, it's, for a tiny country it's got a lot of power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just a couple more questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's OK. I'm enjoying talking about myself, I didn't know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think you've answered some of these, so let me go through this. I know you're here for a reunion of your group. So do you have any other continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're very, very pacifico. They're very peaceful people, very pro-American. They're very proud of their democracy. They're very proud that they don't have an army. They're very proud that they produce more teachers and export teachers to all over Latin America. They're proud of the friendship that America has with them. The beauty of the land, I mean, it's a tiny, tiny country. I don't know, in a jet plane it may take you minutes to go from one coast to another once you're rocking and rolling up in the air. And there are four or five different types of zones there, deserts and jungles and mountains and volcanoes and Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean coasts. Crazy deep rivers. The world's second rivers. I mean, it's, for a tiny country it's got a lot of power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just a couple more questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's OK. I'm enjoying talking about myself, I didn't know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think you've answered some of these, so let me go through this. I know you're here for a reunion of your group. So do you have any other continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, over the years, I've done Peace Corps Day at school, for my daughter's school. You know, I go in with some pottery from Costa Rica and a picture and some different artifacts I have, Costa Rican things, and talk about. Peace Corps as a packet they'll send you. You can talk about that. I've done stuff like that. I volunteer a lot of stuff, you know, so we're just going off from my volunteer all the time. We were in the classroom all the time. For my daughter now, and she likes, she goes to an acting, she does a lot of acting actually, and so does my wife now, in Portland. And we do a lot of volunteering there at the acting school. My daughter doesn't go to the school academically for that, but for extracurricular activities. So the volunteerism, you know, is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So last but not least, what effect has your Peace Corps service had on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00229:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's OK. I'm enjoying talking about myself, I didn't know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think you've answered some of these, so let me go through this. I know you're here for a reunion of your group. So do you have any other continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, over the years, I've done Peace Corps Day at school, for my daughter's school. You know, I go in with some pottery from Costa Rica and a picture and some different artifacts I have, Costa Rican things, and talk about. Peace Corps as a packet they'll send you. You can talk about that. I've done stuff like that. I volunteer a lot of stuff, you know, so we're just going off from my volunteer all the time. We were in the classroom all the time. For my daughter now, and she likes, she goes to an acting, she does a lot of acting actually, and so does my wife now, in Portland. And we do a lot of volunteering there at the acting school. My daughter doesn't go to the school academically for that, but for extracurricular activities. So the volunteerism, you know, is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So last but not least, what effect has your Peace Corps service had on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, yeah, it taught me I could be successful. It taught me Spanish. It taught me about a whole culture of people, geography. A lot about myself. So a huge impact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it change your career goals at all? I know you said you're a liberal arts major in college. I'm sure that had a direction specifically."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.511789946682608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To save a little funds once in a while, I do a little bartering with people in the community. Yesterday I agreed to spray the barber’s lawn in town and get rid of the dandelions in exchange for four haircuts this summer. So I’m keeping very busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sounds like you're still in an extended Peace Corps, Wayne."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, every day I don’t know how I got things done before. I have a to-do list, every Monday morning I scratch off one and start a new one. And it just keeps me busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's sort of what I think, too. You know, I just retired last year and it's like, holy cow, I ever work. The next question is, I want you to think about back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps and talk about what you were doing then and you know how you came to decide to join the Peace Corps. Were you were you at university before you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "University of North Dakota and sort of undecided decided, you know what, I really wanted to get my degree and I was working in ag economics for a while, and then ag education and just wasn't certain where I wanted to end up. So I had just completed my second year of college when I went to a workshop in Denver, Colorado, where Sargent Shriver spoke about Peace Corps and made one of his pitches about getting people involved. And I had grown up with a farming family with seven brothers and a sister, and I grew up in the National Farmers Union and the National Farmers Union had started working with the Peace Corps, Dr. Eklin putting together a program for Bolivia. And I picked up pieces of that as we went along. And I guess that I applied and ended up getting accepted for Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so basically the reason you joined is because you were wanting to do something and you have heard about it at the right time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.30420659454749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, well, I guess I did not at the beginning, but communication went on and as I recall, that became more specific because National Farmers Union was working on this project to go to Bolivia. And I said I would be willing to serve in that project. So then it finally became more specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So think back about your friends and families reactions when you went into the Peace Corps. What did they think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think they were very supportive of the idea. That was they thought, well, we've got a couple of children going in the military or stay in college or go to the Peace Corps and see what's out there on the other side of the pond. And I had a couple of uncles that had served in the military and came back all busted up and I wasn't too keen about that kind of life. And an older brother that was in the Air Force came back somewhat of an alcoholic and a frustrated person. And it didn’t appear to be the kind of life that I wanted to live for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, so what was so basically your family was fine with your decision, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my family was very supportive, especially my mother and my father was very supportive. I mean, with you know, they were having a tough time making ends meet. But your college bills and we were and, you know, I earned most of my own money. And so it wasn't something that we had, you know, my father wasn't earning enough to educate all of us kids. That day, if you want to go, go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As long as we don't have to pay for it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.721242709317888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my family was very supportive, especially my mother and my father was very supportive. I mean, with you know, they were having a tough time making ends meet. But your college bills and we were and, you know, I earned most of my own money. And so it wasn't something that we had, you know, my father wasn't earning enough to educate all of us kids. That day, if you want to go, go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As long as we don't have to pay for it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ll have a little money when you come back. And it was, you know, at that time, $4000 was a lot. It's enough to buy a new Chevy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I've only bought one new car in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that right? Were you at all hesitant? It doesn't sound like you were hesitant to join the Peace Corps once you got the information."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.02360301035321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ll have a little money when you come back. And it was, you know, at that time, $4000 was a lot. It's enough to buy a new Chevy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I've only bought one new car in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that right? Were you at all hesitant? It doesn't sound like you were hesitant to join the Peace Corps once you got the information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I was very open to the whole fact. I was excited about doing something different and moving out of North Dakota, which is great. I've always thought North Dakota was a great place to be from, far from. And this gave me an opportunity to see more and do more. I’ve always been a people person. I like being around people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So since you were invited to join this project with the National Farmers Union, how did you go about preparing yourself and your family for the two years that Peace Corps service? Did you do anything special?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.967411123892852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I was very open to the whole fact. I was excited about doing something different and moving out of North Dakota, which is great. I've always thought North Dakota was a great place to be from, far from. And this gave me an opportunity to see more and do more. I’ve always been a people person. I like being around people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So since you were invited to join this project with the National Farmers Union, how did you go about preparing yourself and your family for the two years that Peace Corps service? Did you do anything special?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't really recall actually doing anything special other than kind of fill it up from, you know, go through the waiting game, and it could happen and, you know, you need to have other alternatives have one more chance for another job somewhere along the line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It got a little bit complicated too because Marj came along with her fluttering eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.63045680432539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't really recall actually doing anything special other than kind of fill it up from, you know, go through the waiting game, and it could happen and, you know, you need to have other alternatives have one more chance for another job somewhere along the line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It got a little bit complicated too because Marj came along with her fluttering eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before you went into Peace Corps training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.2560631159171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It got a little bit complicated too because Marj came along with her fluttering eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before you went into Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I knew her a year and a half or two years at least before they joined Peace Corps. And we met a couple of different times at school and meeting and I was dating one of her earlier friends or whatever. So one thing led to another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's talk about training. That's always a biggie. What did you think about the training program there in Arizona?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.728959017685668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know her before you went into Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I knew her a year and a half or two years at least before they joined Peace Corps. And we met a couple of different times at school and meeting and I was dating one of her earlier friends or whatever. So one thing led to another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's talk about training. That's always a biggie. What did you think about the training program there in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was hot. I thought it was rigorous and I think it was very well done. It was probably a little heavy on some of the anthropological stuff, working with the American Indians. And we all know it was an excellent program and I really enjoyed it. You know, I know a lot of social dynamics, kinds of things, and I recall a lot of tension every Thursday and Friday before the letters came out. We're going to be there or not. Yeah, I think it was the yellow slip you were still there, and if it was a pink you were to pick up your documents and go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was interesting, you know, I would not even aware of those days. I mean, I guess I had my head in the clouds. But anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.365510019650742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I knew her a year and a half or two years at least before they joined Peace Corps. And we met a couple of different times at school and meeting and I was dating one of her earlier friends or whatever. So one thing led to another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's talk about training. That's always a biggie. What did you think about the training program there in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was hot. I thought it was rigorous and I think it was very well done. It was probably a little heavy on some of the anthropological stuff, working with the American Indians. And we all know it was an excellent program and I really enjoyed it. You know, I know a lot of social dynamics, kinds of things, and I recall a lot of tension every Thursday and Friday before the letters came out. We're going to be there or not. Yeah, I think it was the yellow slip you were still there, and if it was a pink you were to pick up your documents and go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was interesting, you know, I would not even aware of those days. I mean, I guess I had my head in the clouds. But anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember quite clearly a couple of people were washed out. One of them was actually a neighbor of mine in North Dakota. You know, got his yellow slip or pink slip or whatever it was. No time to talk to anybody, you know, kind of like, just out of there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any, did you have any disappointments about how the training went or anything that was you especially enjoyed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.072788910723048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was hot. I thought it was rigorous and I think it was very well done. It was probably a little heavy on some of the anthropological stuff, working with the American Indians. And we all know it was an excellent program and I really enjoyed it. You know, I know a lot of social dynamics, kinds of things, and I recall a lot of tension every Thursday and Friday before the letters came out. We're going to be there or not. Yeah, I think it was the yellow slip you were still there, and if it was a pink you were to pick up your documents and go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was interesting, you know, I would not even aware of those days. I mean, I guess I had my head in the clouds. But anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember quite clearly a couple of people were washed out. One of them was actually a neighbor of mine in North Dakota. You know, got his yellow slip or pink slip or whatever it was. No time to talk to anybody, you know, kind of like, just out of there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any, did you have any disappointments about how the training went or anything that was you especially enjoyed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I enjoyed when we had kind of one on one time with the Maricopa people. Often times there was a bigger group and an anthropologist and whoever was, between us and keeping the dialog going. But I was able to sit down with somebody and dangle my feet in an irrigation ditch and talk about who they are, where they’re going, what’s happening, and their lives. Like I got to know them a lot better. That’s what I really enjoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the training prepared you for what you were going to be doing in Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.85865434524783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember quite clearly a couple of people were washed out. One of them was actually a neighbor of mine in North Dakota. You know, got his yellow slip or pink slip or whatever it was. No time to talk to anybody, you know, kind of like, just out of there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any, did you have any disappointments about how the training went or anything that was you especially enjoyed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I enjoyed when we had kind of one on one time with the Maricopa people. Often times there was a bigger group and an anthropologist and whoever was, between us and keeping the dialog going. But I was able to sit down with somebody and dangle my feet in an irrigation ditch and talk about who they are, where they’re going, what’s happening, and their lives. Like I got to know them a lot better. That’s what I really enjoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the training prepared you for what you were going to be doing in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, as far as the cross-cultural, perhaps yes. But as far as technical stuff, no. They did a wonderful job of making sure we were all in very good physical condition. I’ll never forget getting up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the Indians thought we were nuts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.84294927249759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I enjoyed when we had kind of one on one time with the Maricopa people. Often times there was a bigger group and an anthropologist and whoever was, between us and keeping the dialog going. But I was able to sit down with somebody and dangle my feet in an irrigation ditch and talk about who they are, where they’re going, what’s happening, and their lives. Like I got to know them a lot better. That’s what I really enjoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the training prepared you for what you were going to be doing in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, as far as the cross-cultural, perhaps yes. But as far as technical stuff, no. They did a wonderful job of making sure we were all in very good physical condition. I’ll never forget getting up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the Indians thought we were nuts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think the Indians thought we were nuts but we were certainly in pretty good shape. We had a couple old timers who didn’t run but they were out there doing it. Some guys that were in extremely good physical condition, and some other ones you just couldn't keep up with. Or I couldn’t with my short legs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, let's go on. This group has such a unique background because then the next thing is we have all different stages of training. Like what did you think of Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.82549919166399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, as far as the cross-cultural, perhaps yes. But as far as technical stuff, no. They did a wonderful job of making sure we were all in very good physical condition. I’ll never forget getting up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the Indians thought we were nuts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think the Indians thought we were nuts but we were certainly in pretty good shape. We had a couple old timers who didn’t run but they were out there doing it. Some guys that were in extremely good physical condition, and some other ones you just couldn't keep up with. Or I couldn’t with my short legs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, let's go on. This group has such a unique background because then the next thing is we have all different stages of training. Like what did you think of Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed Puerto Rico. I thought that was an excellent example of, you know, suddenly we're in a different culture and we don't need another language. And speaking Spanish really made sense versus what we were learning. And it was a test to try it. And it took a little while before we really got out to other people other than other language instructors at the training camps. But all in all, I enjoyed the cultural part of Puerto Rico very, very much. And I remember extremely clearly the little hikes we had to do in the overnight trips and how different people have of that and and had fun with another one. Extremely frustrating, not knowing what to do when they didn’t have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, what can you think? Did you do you remember that hike across the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.02833243518221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think the Indians thought we were nuts but we were certainly in pretty good shape. We had a couple old timers who didn’t run but they were out there doing it. Some guys that were in extremely good physical condition, and some other ones you just couldn't keep up with. Or I couldn’t with my short legs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, let's go on. This group has such a unique background because then the next thing is we have all different stages of training. Like what did you think of Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed Puerto Rico. I thought that was an excellent example of, you know, suddenly we're in a different culture and we don't need another language. And speaking Spanish really made sense versus what we were learning. And it was a test to try it. And it took a little while before we really got out to other people other than other language instructors at the training camps. But all in all, I enjoyed the cultural part of Puerto Rico very, very much. And I remember extremely clearly the little hikes we had to do in the overnight trips and how different people have of that and and had fun with another one. Extremely frustrating, not knowing what to do when they didn’t have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, what can you think? Did you do you remember that hike across the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that extremely well and I remember actually taking a shortcut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think a lot of people did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.475924927980234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed Puerto Rico. I thought that was an excellent example of, you know, suddenly we're in a different culture and we don't need another language. And speaking Spanish really made sense versus what we were learning. And it was a test to try it. And it took a little while before we really got out to other people other than other language instructors at the training camps. But all in all, I enjoyed the cultural part of Puerto Rico very, very much. And I remember extremely clearly the little hikes we had to do in the overnight trips and how different people have of that and and had fun with another one. Extremely frustrating, not knowing what to do when they didn’t have a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, what can you think? Did you do you remember that hike across the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that extremely well and I remember actually taking a shortcut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think a lot of people did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of guys I was with actually hitchhiked and caught a bus to, I don't know what it was, but we got a free ride to the point where we were forced to go and did a lot of kicking back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, I always sort of think that part of the adaption process, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.862138808866927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that extremely well and I remember actually taking a shortcut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think a lot of people did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of guys I was with actually hitchhiked and caught a bus to, I don't know what it was, but we got a free ride to the point where we were forced to go and did a lot of kicking back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, I always sort of think that part of the adaption process, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, you know, I think we sat down and realized, what are we going to burn? And also walking for two days to get where we’re going. And so we took the shortcut and got to close to where we were supposed to be and camped out this way for a day or a half a day and this way for half a day, and experienced as many things as we could, besides just walking down a path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez, you remember Mayaguez when we went up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.513487565407697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of guys I was with actually hitchhiked and caught a bus to, I don't know what it was, but we got a free ride to the point where we were forced to go and did a lot of kicking back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, I always sort of think that part of the adaption process, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, you know, I think we sat down and realized, what are we going to burn? And also walking for two days to get where we’re going. And so we took the shortcut and got to close to where we were supposed to be and camped out this way for a day or a half a day and this way for half a day, and experienced as many things as we could, besides just walking down a path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez, you remember Mayaguez when we went up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that more of the university kind of setting long ago. I don't remember so much about it, but it was pretty dedicated to the language and cross-cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the beach."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.459430628230773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, you know, I think we sat down and realized, what are we going to burn? And also walking for two days to get where we’re going. And so we took the shortcut and got to close to where we were supposed to be and camped out this way for a day or a half a day and this way for half a day, and experienced as many things as we could, besides just walking down a path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez, you remember Mayaguez when we went up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that more of the university kind of setting long ago. I don't remember so much about it, but it was pretty dedicated to the language and cross-cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember jumps and all that. So that was a positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of a holding pattern. Yeah, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.73270069803419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that more of the university kind of setting long ago. I don't remember so much about it, but it was pretty dedicated to the language and cross-cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember jumps and all that. So that was a positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of a holding pattern. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other stuff, when we were out drown proofing and rappelling and having fun helping each other, and that to me was very enjoyable. And part of it, I do tie knots and, you know, I do a lot of different things. I so, you know, I had some things to offer and help some folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then we went home. What did your family and how did you feel when you got home? You were trying to get ready to go after the training to go to Bolivia. Can you talk about that a little?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.03633410892688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember jumps and all that. So that was a positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of a holding pattern. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other stuff, when we were out drown proofing and rappelling and having fun helping each other, and that to me was very enjoyable. And part of it, I do tie knots and, you know, I do a lot of different things. I so, you know, I had some things to offer and help some folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then we went home. What did your family and how did you feel when you got home? You were trying to get ready to go after the training to go to Bolivia. Can you talk about that a little?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, family, you know, there were some real loop hole types of things. And I like I you know, one little thing was that you’re not accepted until the last 10 days to get through training. And because I thought it would be something and I think about half of, you know, we hadn’t gotten any drop outs or whatever and so on that. And I was also getting married so I had all those things up in the aid. Wedding invitations couldn't go out until we were both accepted. So phone call went to the mother in law saying, yes we’re coming home and we plan to get married on this date. So the family rushing around and getting things ready for the wedding. And there was a total of three hundred dollars. And so a lot of what was happening this time with family and friends gathered for our wedding. And we’re standing around in the church basement, opening presents and knowing that they'd all have to go with the attic of my father in law's house until we got back. The barrister would not leave the basement of the church, just hanging around. And finally, I realized, he needed, the custom was, to give him a bit of money so he could go home. So we didn't have any money. We had to open some presents to give him cash so they can get on with their life. I remember that very clearly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. None of us had any money then, did we?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.31646186287269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, family, you know, there were some real loop hole types of things. And I like I you know, one little thing was that you’re not accepted until the last 10 days to get through training. And because I thought it would be something and I think about half of, you know, we hadn’t gotten any drop outs or whatever and so on that. And I was also getting married so I had all those things up in the aid. Wedding invitations couldn't go out until we were both accepted. So phone call went to the mother in law saying, yes we’re coming home and we plan to get married on this date. So the family rushing around and getting things ready for the wedding. And there was a total of three hundred dollars. And so a lot of what was happening this time with family and friends gathered for our wedding. And we’re standing around in the church basement, opening presents and knowing that they'd all have to go with the attic of my father in law's house until we got back. The barrister would not leave the basement of the church, just hanging around. And finally, I realized, he needed, the custom was, to give him a bit of money so he could go home. So we didn't have any money. We had to open some presents to give him cash so they can get on with their life. I remember that very clearly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. None of us had any money then, did we?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn’t, didn’t have anything. What I had I kind of spent on getting my family together. And we had, you know, by a two year supply or whatever it was. We didn't have that much time at home. I think it was nine days or something. Including getting married and trying to figure out which car to decorate three, to make sure they got the right one. And I still like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't fool you. All right, let's talk about Bolivia now. Are you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we first got what were your impressions? When we first got to Bolivia, we started in La Paz, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 41.46273540319188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn’t, didn’t have anything. What I had I kind of spent on getting my family together. And we had, you know, by a two year supply or whatever it was. We didn't have that much time at home. I think it was nine days or something. Including getting married and trying to figure out which car to decorate three, to make sure they got the right one. And I still like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't fool you. All right, let's talk about Bolivia now. Are you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we first got what were your impressions? When we first got to Bolivia, we started in La Paz, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in La Paz and my impressions were, my gosh this place is high and desert looking at the airport. And I remember picking up a couple of suitcases and heading toward the terminal and just getting a pretty good pace didn’t make it, ended up with a bloody nose. I had a little altitude sickness the first 24 hours. I really remember being pretty bummed out, because I just didn't have the strength and energy until I got a little bit acclimatized. I started off too fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ignored what they said about taking it slow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 44.95859489243542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we first got what were your impressions? When we first got to Bolivia, we started in La Paz, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in La Paz and my impressions were, my gosh this place is high and desert looking at the airport. And I remember picking up a couple of suitcases and heading toward the terminal and just getting a pretty good pace didn’t make it, ended up with a bloody nose. I had a little altitude sickness the first 24 hours. I really remember being pretty bummed out, because I just didn't have the strength and energy until I got a little bit acclimatized. I started off too fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ignored what they said about taking it slow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I would get shifted into a higher gear, but once we were there, I enjoyed La Paz very much, so much of it is still somewhat of a blur, going to and sitting there. And I don't know, whoever it was and whoever the ambassador. Getting your picture taken. And I was just kind of glad to get out of La Paz to where we were going to live and work. And I was anxious to get to work. I wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about what you were where you were eventually ended up and what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.174443974253002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he kept things going quite well until he retired. We had a welcoming hand if we went back to Tanzania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then after that, we came back to Idaho again and worked with the Cupi tribe for another two years and realized that, you know, they needed an economic base, there’s just no way they can continue to make house payments and raise families and buy gas and food and whatever. And so we were able to work with the guys in Agnone when we lived here earlier that owned some land along the Cupi river. And so the tribe was able to help get a grant to work with the Best Western motel management folks. And they got really excited to work with the tribe and set up a little corporation kind of thing and bought the land to build a motel restaurant. And it's the largest employer in the county right now. And the tribe is all driving new cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a casino too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a casino too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.30493774917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then after that, we came back to Idaho again and worked with the Cupi tribe for another two years and realized that, you know, they needed an economic base, there’s just no way they can continue to make house payments and raise families and buy gas and food and whatever. And so we were able to work with the guys in Agnone when we lived here earlier that owned some land along the Cupi river. And so the tribe was able to help get a grant to work with the Best Western motel management folks. And they got really excited to work with the tribe and set up a little corporation kind of thing and bought the land to build a motel restaurant. And it's the largest employer in the county right now. And the tribe is all driving new cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a casino too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a casino too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a casino. And the population is now a hundred and sixty seven people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now, so you're still, go on with your story, you've got the motel and the restaurant and casino."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.338819721300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a casino too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a casino. And the population is now a hundred and sixty seven people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now, so you're still, go on with your story, you've got the motel and the restaurant and casino."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that time it was not a casino, just the motel restaurant. And a few years later, when I went back to Peace Corps and was not working there, the person that replaced me in the tribe got together. And they then realized that there is money to be made in gambling. And we're so close to the Canadian border and they love to gamble, too. And so they built the casino. It started off small and now it's expanded and they're doing quite well. And education has become important to the tribal members, most of them now graduate from high school and a couple have gone on and gotten their doctorate or master’s. And so the big change is going on, but still a lot of work to be done. And now they have resources, but I'm not sure that they're the happiest people here. I'm sure you know where they are going and whether I have the energy to get more involved again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you or did they make you an honorary member of the tribe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.376466357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a casino. And the population is now a hundred and sixty seven people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now, so you're still, go on with your story, you've got the motel and the restaurant and casino."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that time it was not a casino, just the motel restaurant. And a few years later, when I went back to Peace Corps and was not working there, the person that replaced me in the tribe got together. And they then realized that there is money to be made in gambling. And we're so close to the Canadian border and they love to gamble, too. And so they built the casino. It started off small and now it's expanded and they're doing quite well. And education has become important to the tribal members, most of them now graduate from high school and a couple have gone on and gotten their doctorate or master’s. And so the big change is going on, but still a lot of work to be done. And now they have resources, but I'm not sure that they're the happiest people here. I'm sure you know where they are going and whether I have the energy to get more involved again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you or did they make you an honorary member of the tribe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't call it an honorary. But I am invited to all of their Christmas dinners and Thanksgiving dinners. And whenever an old person dies, I'm one of the first ones they get a hold of to come to the wake and go to the wake processing of things out there. And I'm still very respected and so is Marj as a person in the tribal community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Wayne, would you say your Peace Corps service had an effect on what you chose to do the rest of your life for the rest of your life after you got out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.2178597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't call it an honorary. But I am invited to all of their Christmas dinners and Thanksgiving dinners. And whenever an old person dies, I'm one of the first ones they get a hold of to come to the wake and go to the wake processing of things out there. And I'm still very respected and so is Marj as a person in the tribal community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Wayne, would you say your Peace Corps service had an effect on what you chose to do the rest of your life for the rest of your life after you got out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it certainly has had a role and I ended up, you know, leaving here. And we went to joined the program in South Africa with the University of Arizona, where I worked four years setting up the Nac Engineering Department and the soon to and after spending four years there and Peace Corps was there. And I worked developing programs where volunteers can work with different villages, developing gravity flow irrigation systems and just enjoying, again, seeing Peace Corps and their energy and develop training programs. So their training was more relevant to what they were going to do in their villages and part of the training was making sure they had a coworker into training and worked with them for the last few weeks of training. They and their coworker would work together and put together a plan of work. So when he was finally sworn in, they knew what they were going to do together. It wasn’t like we didn't know every day, you know, trying to find a need and fill it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew what they were going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty pretty. They didn't really know what they were doing when we were in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.676370000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew what they were going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty pretty. They didn't really know what they were doing when we were in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I kind of became an opening in Peace Corps, a training director in Lesotho, and my contract had finished up with the University of Arizona. So I threw my hat in the ring and I became training director for three years in Lesotho and worked with helping new program get started in South Africa. And so we were there during apartheid and Mandela took over and de Klerk stepped out. So we had some very interesting times, stressful times. And so I really enjoyed that. And my three years were up there. I threw my hat in the ring for a country director position and West Africa, and I was chosen for the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In West Africa, in The Gambia. So I became. Peace Corps had this rule at Kennedy and Shriver put up that you couldn't stay longer than five years in Peace Corps. And I've always agreed with that. But in my case, I ended up staying seven and a half years because while we were in the Gambia, there was an overthrow of the government and I was about ready to leave, but Peace Corps Washington realized that it was too risky to bring someone else in because I knew all these escape routes to the neighboring countries and had very good relations with all the ministries and they needed security for our volunteers. The military leaders that took over within 24 hours, came to the Peace Corps office and said, Wayne, I don't care if everybody else from the USA leaves, the NGOs, we want you and your volunteers to stay in. If anybody gets out of, you know, we'll straighten things out. And that got to Washington. And they say, well, will you stay another two and a half years until we find you a replacement and things settle down and so I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that the leader of the coup that came to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.529300000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I kind of became an opening in Peace Corps, a training director in Lesotho, and my contract had finished up with the University of Arizona. So I threw my hat in the ring and I became training director for three years in Lesotho and worked with helping new program get started in South Africa. And so we were there during apartheid and Mandela took over and de Klerk stepped out. So we had some very interesting times, stressful times. And so I really enjoyed that. And my three years were up there. I threw my hat in the ring for a country director position and West Africa, and I was chosen for the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In West Africa, in The Gambia. So I became. Peace Corps had this rule at Kennedy and Shriver put up that you couldn't stay longer than five years in Peace Corps. And I've always agreed with that. But in my case, I ended up staying seven and a half years because while we were in the Gambia, there was an overthrow of the government and I was about ready to leave, but Peace Corps Washington realized that it was too risky to bring someone else in because I knew all these escape routes to the neighboring countries and had very good relations with all the ministries and they needed security for our volunteers. The military leaders that took over within 24 hours, came to the Peace Corps office and said, Wayne, I don't care if everybody else from the USA leaves, the NGOs, we want you and your volunteers to stay in. If anybody gets out of, you know, we'll straighten things out. And that got to Washington. And they say, well, will you stay another two and a half years until we find you a replacement and things settle down and so I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that the leader of the coup that came to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The leader of the coup d’etat came to you to say that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.53, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The leader of the coup d’etat came to you to say that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew him personally. And you let it be known that he wanted volunteers to stay and help rebuild his country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. Are you writing your own memoirs, Wayne?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 11.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew him personally. And you let it be known that he wanted volunteers to stay and help rebuild his country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. Are you writing your own memoirs, Wayne?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you writing your memoirs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew him personally. And you let it be known that he wanted volunteers to stay and help rebuild his country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. Are you writing your own memoirs, Wayne?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you writing your memoirs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not writing anything. I don't even like checks anymore. I haven't written a check in seven years. Marj takes care of all financial things in our family and I have sore knees, getting on my knees once in a while begging to get a little cash. Well, but, you know, the Peace Corps, when we finished up in the country director and moved back here to Idaho, I put a lot of volunteer work with the Land O'Lakes Corporation in Minnesota and went to Nigeria twice to do training programs and repair and maintenance of irrigation pumps. And I went to the Philippines two different times and did training programs and gravity pull irrigation on the isolated little island of Palawan and sort of did a lot. Then started doing a lot of traveling then to Australia a couple of times, then Indonesia two years ago, and now I'm ready to go somewhere else again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, that’s great. Do you have any last thoughts that you would like to write before I turn off this recording?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00261:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you writing your memoirs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not writing anything. I don't even like checks anymore. I haven't written a check in seven years. Marj takes care of all financial things in our family and I have sore knees, getting on my knees once in a while begging to get a little cash. Well, but, you know, the Peace Corps, when we finished up in the country director and moved back here to Idaho, I put a lot of volunteer work with the Land O'Lakes Corporation in Minnesota and went to Nigeria twice to do training programs and repair and maintenance of irrigation pumps. And I went to the Philippines two different times and did training programs and gravity pull irrigation on the isolated little island of Palawan and sort of did a lot. Then started doing a lot of traveling then to Australia a couple of times, then Indonesia two years ago, and now I'm ready to go somewhere else again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, that’s great. Do you have any last thoughts that you would like to write before I turn off this recording?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I'd really like to try to figure out what I'm going to do with this second half. I’m seventy now, half way to one hundred and forty. And just wondering, what am I doing for the next 70 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's always a challenge."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.60200897899006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there wasn’t"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t immediately embraced I wouldn’t imagine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, since I was not a test pilot, there were several of us who weren’t, we basically figured out real fast that we were at that bottom of the totem pole… Also [our] group was not immediately embraced because … the Time Life [magazine] contract was a bit of an issue. The first group were well into that, the second group had been brought along by the first group reluctantly and the last thing they wanted was to start dividing the pie even further… [T]hey really didn’t know what to do with [us]. So there were some tensions that I didn’t fully understand going on because of that. … [G]enerally we were accepted and the lines were accepted, but if you had gone to test pilot school, whether it be Air Force or Navy, you were more accepted than if you were an ‘egghead’, so to speak, like I and several others were [considered]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were those first few weeks like when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a lot of briefings and … a lot of logistics of trying to get our families located and that kind of thing. … [W]e were treated well [but] you definitely knew there was a totem pole, just like in any organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you all were given other duties—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.55778775443339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, since I was not a test pilot, there were several of us who weren’t, we basically figured out real fast that we were at that bottom of the totem pole… Also [our] group was not immediately embraced because … the Time Life [magazine] contract was a bit of an issue. The first group were well into that, the second group had been brought along by the first group reluctantly and the last thing they wanted was to start dividing the pie even further… [T]hey really didn’t know what to do with [us]. So there were some tensions that I didn’t fully understand going on because of that. … [G]enerally we were accepted and the lines were accepted, but if you had gone to test pilot school, whether it be Air Force or Navy, you were more accepted than if you were an ‘egghead’, so to speak, like I and several others were [considered]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were those first few weeks like when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a lot of briefings and … a lot of logistics of trying to get our families located and that kind of thing. … [W]e were treated well [but] you definitely knew there was a totem pole, just like in any organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you all were given other duties—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [W]e were trained in [spacecraft systems,] rendezvous and in geology which I particularly liked. I volunteered to go on all the geology trips which probably didn’t go over too well because you weren’t supposed to be interested in that kind of stuff. Then eventually we were assigned various duties, somewhat related to our experience, mine mainly being in space radiation shielding … [and] I was assigned that [responsibility for] the environmental control system…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well part of the research, they noticed that you’re experienced with that, radiation and the Van Allen belts, you were asked about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 55.0642086160371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a lot of briefings and … a lot of logistics of trying to get our families located and that kind of thing. … [W]e were treated well [but] you definitely knew there was a totem pole, just like in any organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you all were given other duties—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [W]e were trained in [spacecraft systems,] rendezvous and in geology which I particularly liked. I volunteered to go on all the geology trips which probably didn’t go over too well because you weren’t supposed to be interested in that kind of stuff. Then eventually we were assigned various duties, somewhat related to our experience, mine mainly being in space radiation shielding … [and] I was assigned that [responsibility for] the environmental control system…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well part of the research, they noticed that you’re experienced with that, radiation and the Van Allen belts, you were asked about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interviews you mean, when?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no. Before the Apollo mission for the Gemini missions. For instance for 9, they were wondering whether that was going to cause a problem."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 55.62689846226344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [W]e were trained in [spacecraft systems,] rendezvous and in geology which I particularly liked. I volunteered to go on all the geology trips which probably didn’t go over too well because you weren’t supposed to be interested in that kind of stuff. Then eventually we were assigned various duties, somewhat related to our experience, mine mainly being in space radiation shielding … [and] I was assigned that [responsibility for] the environmental control system…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well part of the research, they noticed that you’re experienced with that, radiation and the Van Allen belts, you were asked about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interviews you mean, when?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no. Before the Apollo mission for the Gemini missions. For instance for 9, they were wondering whether that was going to cause a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and there were various experiments on board the spacecraft measuring radiation and I generally got involved in reviewing those. Pete Conrad [Charles C. Conrad, Jr.] and I particularly on Gemini 11, which was highly elliptical orbit up through the Van Allen belt, went up to the Naval Research Lab and we had a little, (still have) a … joke [why] we wanted him to look good but he didn’t know anything about the [radiation] and wasn’t going to learn anything about. [We had] signals where [one finger] meant “no” and [two fingers] meant “yes”. So when you interview Pete Conrad you can [ask], “Does that [one finger] means anything to you?” …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well do you think when they were choosing the crews for the various missions, were the individuals personalities taken into account?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 33.12638395614395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but I could see because I had been put on the Command Module track by default even though I trekked down the lunar training vehicle [track] and checked out in the Lunar Module… [NASA] took our Lunar Module away from us to go around the Moon real quick. All that made sense. So I feel extremely fortunate to have been able to participate on man’s first flight away from [our] own planet but I would have traded the last lunar landing for the first flight away from the planet…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well were you surprised when they made the decision to send Apollo 8 to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your concerns?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well my concern was that I was losing my Lunar Module, because if you had your name on the side of the Lunar Module, so to speak, then that meant, unless you screwed up, that you were going to make a lunar landing. When that Lunar Module went away, I could really quickly see the domino effects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’d lost those responsibilities."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.140426617937717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your concerns?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well my concern was that I was losing my Lunar Module, because if you had your name on the side of the Lunar Module, so to speak, then that meant, unless you screwed up, that you were going to make a lunar landing. When that Lunar Module went away, I could really quickly see the domino effects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’d lost those responsibilities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right and [then] I [became] a Command Module expert and the hook there was that the more expert I became in the Command Module, the more I became welded to the Command Module [and] Command Module guys … don’t land. And my position on the totem pole was such that it was going to have to be Apollo 16, 17, 18, or later when I’d be a commander. … Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan sweated it out, but Gene … also flew [in] Gemini so he had slightly greater number of brownie points. … [I]f I’d have waited [there might have been a chance to land on Apollo [19] or [20]… But … at the time, I didn’t expect [NASA] to go past Apollo 15, given the [public] unrest that was developing over the cost of the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a better feel for that because weren’t you then in Washington?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 32.37825179770857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well my concern was that I was losing my Lunar Module, because if you had your name on the side of the Lunar Module, so to speak, then that meant, unless you screwed up, that you were going to make a lunar landing. When that Lunar Module went away, I could really quickly see the domino effects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’d lost those responsibilities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right and [then] I [became] a Command Module expert and the hook there was that the more expert I became in the Command Module, the more I became welded to the Command Module [and] Command Module guys … don’t land. And my position on the totem pole was such that it was going to have to be Apollo 16, 17, 18, or later when I’d be a commander. … Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan sweated it out, but Gene … also flew [in] Gemini so he had slightly greater number of brownie points. … [I]f I’d have waited [there might have been a chance to land on Apollo [19] or [20]… But … at the time, I didn’t expect [NASA] to go past Apollo 15, given the [public] unrest that was developing over the cost of the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a better feel for that because weren’t you then in Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to make that decision before I went to Washington. Once I went to Washington, … though, I made a deal with the administrator that I could come back [if I so chose I] even got to fly NASA airplanes for five year later, [but I had] pretty much cast my lot of not [landing on the Moon. It was a good call]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well when I asked about concerns with Apollo 8, those were your personal concerns but did you have personal concerns about the equipment because it was the second time—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.443634604664883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "…[T]hat one [view] is sunk in my head. Then there’s another one I like maybe [and this is] of the first full Earth picture which made it again look very colorful. … [T]o me the significance of this [is that the Moon is] about the size of your fist held at arm’s length … you can imagine … [that at a hundred arms’ lengths the Earth is] down to [the size of] a dust mode. [A]nd, a hundred lunar distances in space are really nothing. You haven’t gone anywhere not even to the next planet. So here was this orb looking like a Christmas tree ornament, very fragile, not [an infinite] expanse [of] granite … [and seemingly of] a physical insignificance and yet it was our home…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was there anything on that flight that you wish could have been accomplished that you, maybe, ran out of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect I wish I would have taken more pictures, but Frank was concerned about whether we were rested or not so he forced Lovell and I to go to sleep which probably made sense. One screw up I did was I used some film that had been designed as ASA 2000, very high speed film, to photograph the Earth’s side of the Moon which was in Earth shine on that flight. … I got them mixed up and … used the Earth shine film on the intense lunar back side and vice versa. But fortunately I confessed to Dick Underwood who was the [NASA photo] guru and they were able to change the chemistry of the development and at least salvage some of [the photos]. But no, we made it up and back and that was our job and so I don’t have any regrets other than what I’ve already articulated about not making a landing…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Collins was here, of course before, and he said that he felt that it was more significant that your mission had left the Earth than their mission where they had actually landed on another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve heard that from him and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so I’d like to hear your…"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.82626067184987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect I wish I would have taken more pictures, but Frank was concerned about whether we were rested or not so he forced Lovell and I to go to sleep which probably made sense. One screw up I did was I used some film that had been designed as ASA 2000, very high speed film, to photograph the Earth’s side of the Moon which was in Earth shine on that flight. … I got them mixed up and … used the Earth shine film on the intense lunar back side and vice versa. But fortunately I confessed to Dick Underwood who was the [NASA photo] guru and they were able to change the chemistry of the development and at least salvage some of [the photos]. But no, we made it up and back and that was our job and so I don’t have any regrets other than what I’ve already articulated about not making a landing…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Collins was here, of course before, and he said that he felt that it was more significant that your mission had left the Earth than their mission where they had actually landed on another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve heard that from him and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so I’d like to hear your…"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I’ve thought about that and I try to be objective. I certainly think it was very significant. I think landing on the Moon was very significant… [W]e were the first to leave our home planet, they were the first to go to … another planet. So even though maybe the lunar landing which was the objective got a lot … more hoopla, I certainly would put them both on the same level. To say that Apollo 8 is more significant, I’m not ready to say that. They were both significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is your most significant contribution to the space program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.362511857610965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve heard that from him and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so I’d like to hear your…"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I’ve thought about that and I try to be objective. I certainly think it was very significant. I think landing on the Moon was very significant… [W]e were the first to leave our home planet, they were the first to go to … another planet. So even though maybe the lunar landing which was the objective got a lot … more hoopla, I certainly would put them both on the same level. To say that Apollo 8 is more significant, I’m not ready to say that. They were both significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is your most significant contribution to the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [W]ell that’s difficult because so many things we did were just a culmination of all the activity and the fact that we happened to be the ones who were there. Maybe taking that picture which had a lot of ecological and philosophical impact at the time. Probably just making sure that the Apollo 8 Command Module and service module worked, not only during the flight but was rung out thoroughly during the tests, which I really had dedicated a tremendous amount of energy to which probably just doing my part in one link in the chain of success of Apollo 8 [in particular and the Apollo program in general]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were doing that, you got to go to the factory a lot and talk to all the engineers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.18056873067885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I’ve thought about that and I try to be objective. I certainly think it was very significant. I think landing on the Moon was very significant… [W]e were the first to leave our home planet, they were the first to go to … another planet. So even though maybe the lunar landing which was the objective got a lot … more hoopla, I certainly would put them both on the same level. To say that Apollo 8 is more significant, I’m not ready to say that. They were both significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is your most significant contribution to the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [W]ell that’s difficult because so many things we did were just a culmination of all the activity and the fact that we happened to be the ones who were there. Maybe taking that picture which had a lot of ecological and philosophical impact at the time. Probably just making sure that the Apollo 8 Command Module and service module worked, not only during the flight but was rung out thoroughly during the tests, which I really had dedicated a tremendous amount of energy to which probably just doing my part in one link in the chain of success of Apollo 8 [in particular and the Apollo program in general]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were doing that, you got to go to the factory a lot and talk to all the engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To inspect the tests. Yea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that? Were there any particular things that you recommended or suggested that were put into place, did engineers redesign anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 26.148850284788704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To inspect the tests. Yea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that? Were there any particular things that you recommended or suggested that were put into place, did engineers redesign anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was just a continuous dialogue back and forth between me personally or the astronauts as a group or non-astronauts. There was a very good working relationship. The contractor clearly was more interested in doing it right than making a lot of money, although I suppose they did all right. But I don’t remember any issues where things weren’t resolved to my satisfaction whether I thought about them initially or not, so it was a very good. And there wasn’t, particularly prior to the fire and even after the fire there wasn’t, the kind of who shot John aspect that you see in the Shuttle today or who forgot to pull the plug out of the Mir or whatever they did. People now seem to be, maybe it’s the age of the yuppie or something, looking for blame, who can be blamed for this or who can be blamed for that, as opposed to, “Oh, the Mir’s probably pretty good.” Certainly better than nothing. And yet the press focus is on what’s the leak of the day. And we put people in much greater risks, we the United States, down in Antarctica or in airplanes everyday than the astronauts are put at risk in Mir, in my view, and yet the press hasn’t jumped on that. Why did I tell you this, you didn’t ask me about Mir?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, but that’s good, that’s a good point. Because that was going to be one of my later questions was, what do you think NASA’s future is and …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that the question now or later?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well we can do it now since you’re on the subject."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.758040367000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the United Space Alliance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got so tired of NASA politics I retired to my island and I fly my P-51 and fish for salmon and I don’t pay much attention anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a new organization that’s been made up of consortium of aerospace companies as the United Space Alliance and they are responsible for the Shuttle. And I think the goal is to privatize the Shuttle. Do you think that’s a good idea or workable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It basically is a massively uneconomical venture. If you privatize it, it will have to be subsidized in some way. So I can’t imagine that it can be successful in the [truly] private [unclear]. [W]here [is] their money? … Are they willing to buy the thing? [If note, why should the taxpayer?]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s the talk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.39782263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got so tired of NASA politics I retired to my island and I fly my P-51 and fish for salmon and I don’t pay much attention anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a new organization that’s been made up of consortium of aerospace companies as the United Space Alliance and they are responsible for the Shuttle. And I think the goal is to privatize the Shuttle. Do you think that’s a good idea or workable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It basically is a massively uneconomical venture. If you privatize it, it will have to be subsidized in some way. So I can’t imagine that it can be successful in the [truly] private [unclear]. [W]here [is] their money? … Are they willing to buy the thing? [If note, why should the taxpayer?]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s the talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean, are they going to pay for the non-reoccurring costs? If you give me a Cadillac, I can probably afford the gas… So if this alliance is given a massively subsidized, by the taxpayers, capital situation for free, well maybe they can make a success out of it. But I wouldn’t call that a real private activity. If they want to take over the job of the civil servants, who, with all due respect, may be are not as easy to manage as people are in the private sector, … that’s just trading one, sort of, frozen-in bureaucracy versus a somewhat more flexible bureaucracy. Maybe that would work better but that doesn’t mean that it makes sense. I wouldn’t buy stock in it myself. I’ve been asked to be the administrator of NASA three times and I’ve turned it down because I figured they couldn’t stand hearing this so I’m telling you this, more or less, in private. Okay. But that’s what I’d be saying on the hill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well then why didn’t you take the job and go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.997580700000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It basically is a massively uneconomical venture. If you privatize it, it will have to be subsidized in some way. So I can’t imagine that it can be successful in the [truly] private [unclear]. [W]here [is] their money? … Are they willing to buy the thing? [If note, why should the taxpayer?]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s the talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean, are they going to pay for the non-reoccurring costs? If you give me a Cadillac, I can probably afford the gas… So if this alliance is given a massively subsidized, by the taxpayers, capital situation for free, well maybe they can make a success out of it. But I wouldn’t call that a real private activity. If they want to take over the job of the civil servants, who, with all due respect, may be are not as easy to manage as people are in the private sector, … that’s just trading one, sort of, frozen-in bureaucracy versus a somewhat more flexible bureaucracy. Maybe that would work better but that doesn’t mean that it makes sense. I wouldn’t buy stock in it myself. I’ve been asked to be the administrator of NASA three times and I’ve turned it down because I figured they couldn’t stand hearing this so I’m telling you this, more or less, in private. Okay. But that’s what I’d be saying on the hill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well then why didn’t you take the job and go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because in [Gerald R.] Ford’s day and in George Bush’s day it was clear that [NASA and some politicians] were still mesmerized by the big-deal… I [would have] had to get rid of a lot of people to have it make sense and that’s always a very painful exercise and … maybe I’m too lazy…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you end up in Washington state”?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00034:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gets on your nerves after all these years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m particularly bothered when somebody gets an autograph and tries to sell it. I got a real hard nose policy because even one of our lunar landing colleagues sold some stuff that our crew gave him and that really burned me up. I tried to buy it back on the open market. It was a flag that had been to the Moon or around the Moon and autographed by the Apollo 8 crew. Next thing I know, it was for sale. And it even had, I won’t say the name, you might guess who it was, ‘To so and so, thanks for all your help, Frank, Jim and Bill.’ … [T]here’s amazing amount of autograph sellers out there, who use every excuse you can think of to get an autograph. Like, “I’m dying of Cerebral Palsy,” or “I’ve been hit by a train and my last wish is that you give me your [autograph].” My secretary used to keep a record of the addresses versus the stories and there [were] about 100 people who had applied ten times under ten difference aliases with ten different diseases or whatever to try to get the autograph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had heard that Ken Mattingly does that too. That he has some database that he checks against all these."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I quit doing that, I just quit signing them [at] all unless it’s somebody that I really know [and that it’s] for their own use. But it’s amazing how many of these, ‘Oh, I swear I’ll never sell it,’ type stories end up … in the autograph catalog… One of our colleagues said “Well, okay, if they want to buy them, I’ll sell them.” So he gives them all his canceled checks for fifty cents or something. That has more honor than the other as far as I’m concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of geriatrics, John Glenn wants to have another mission. Do you think that’s a good idea? Do you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 46.27191787471454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tuesday through Friday. Friday afternoon [they returned to the base]. Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night, three nights, and they had a lot to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a debriefing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, afterwards. The critique afterwards is how we were able to improve the course. All the time. All the [people] that went through the courses are the ones that made it. After each group, from the first group on, at the critique, the debriefing.\\n\\n Would you like to have a story of one colonel? It’s not particularly germane, and it’s a little shady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s your story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a colonel from the mission chief in Ecuador. His name was Morganti. And I assigned him as the commander of his group. He had, I think, thirty, thirty-three, thirty-five people in that class. We always gave a lecture to the regular classes. We gave it about prison camps or someplace where you’re on your own, and as it proved, that was true in [Vietnam] and places. And I said, “Sometimes the only water you’ll have is urine.” And I said, “If the people are healthy. What makes urine repulsive is its waste materials, and most of it is salt. It is not poisonous unless somebody has some disease.”\\n\\n Well, that’s rough for our society to take. But Colonel Morganti rose to the occasion at the critique afterwards. He said, “Mr. Smith.” He said, “I’m so glad that you made that lecture about first aid and about the use of water and source of water.” He says, “when you assigned me to organize this group, I had these sergeants doing this and that and the other thing.” And he said, “I overhead one sergeant say to the other, ‘Well, piss on the colonel,’ and I didn’t know he was looking out for my welfare.” [Laughter] That was a common thing to say about your commander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.818186543218417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will have to give you an answer, the first time you use “I” instead of “we.” I prohibited anybody from even being in the parking lot. This is serious lifesaving training. It’s not a sideshow, and the Air Force general I worked for at the time believed in that, and he put a security policeman [on duty to keep the place secured]. “There will be nobody here except the people immediately involved in training.” He agreed with that, and that’s the way we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any of the press corps volunteer to go through your survival training to understand it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of them did. And a year or so later, I think all of them did. We had the Washington press corps down there, and they all went out into the rainforest, and we put them in a dugout canoe. We almost drowned them in rough water crossing the lake [on the way out]. They went through reality, and the press clippings that I have in my mementoes attest to the fact that they thought they went through a rough time and they survived and they were so proud of themselves. [Yes], we had them, and they respected [all of the Panamanian survival instructors].\\n\\n I will say this, there was none of this business like the Princess Diana thing and so on, chasing. Oh, sure, they wanted to be there. But when I told them why not, we had no problem whatsoever.\n\nWhat about other NASA officials or NASA medical people that somewhat traveled with the astronauts? Did you train them as well?\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had to go wait someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could go twiddle their thumbs and sit in the Officers’ Club and drink coffee. The people who did come were very respectful, as were the press corps, [although they] were very interested. No, I was going to say we did have one or two people who went into the field but did not go through the training. They were nice people. I have no negatives at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many sets of astronaut survival camps did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.020207270242684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of them did. And a year or so later, I think all of them did. We had the Washington press corps down there, and they all went out into the rainforest, and we put them in a dugout canoe. We almost drowned them in rough water crossing the lake [on the way out]. They went through reality, and the press clippings that I have in my mementoes attest to the fact that they thought they went through a rough time and they survived and they were so proud of themselves. [Yes], we had them, and they respected [all of the Panamanian survival instructors].\\n\\n I will say this, there was none of this business like the Princess Diana thing and so on, chasing. Oh, sure, they wanted to be there. But when I told them why not, we had no problem whatsoever.\n\nWhat about other NASA officials or NASA medical people that somewhat traveled with the astronauts? Did you train them as well?\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had to go wait someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could go twiddle their thumbs and sit in the Officers’ Club and drink coffee. The people who did come were very respectful, as were the press corps, [although they] were very interested. No, I was going to say we did have one or two people who went into the field but did not go through the training. They were nice people. I have no negatives at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many sets of astronaut survival camps did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three. You mean how many times?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many times did they—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.022452522491871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could go twiddle their thumbs and sit in the Officers’ Club and drink coffee. The people who did come were very respectful, as were the press corps, [although they] were very interested. No, I was going to say we did have one or two people who went into the field but did not go through the training. They were nice people. I have no negatives at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many sets of astronaut survival camps did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three. You mean how many times?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many times did they—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three different times. Mercury, Gemini, and then Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any differences or do anything different?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.136058358324302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three. You mean how many times?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many times did they—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three different times. Mercury, Gemini, and then Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any differences or do anything different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They all needed the same type of training. Mostly they needed to know that a tropical jungle or rainforest is a friendly place. If you treat it well, meet it as a neutral entity, you’re fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your observations on how well the astronauts worked together in that group? I know you said you split them up in pairs, but when they were all together, did you have any observations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.373398175915892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three different times. Mercury, Gemini, and then Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any differences or do anything different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They all needed the same type of training. Mostly they needed to know that a tropical jungle or rainforest is a friendly place. If you treat it well, meet it as a neutral entity, you’re fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your observations on how well the astronauts worked together in that group? I know you said you split them up in pairs, but when they were all together, did you have any observations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had observations there. Sure, there’s competition, and it was all that we—and I say we because my instructors all reported to me about it. What we saw was cooperative competition. And I realize that there’s different opinions and different personalities. We saw that. But I think we [coined] a term: it’s cooperative competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the critiques differ between the groups? Different comments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.303775751017657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They all needed the same type of training. Mostly they needed to know that a tropical jungle or rainforest is a friendly place. If you treat it well, meet it as a neutral entity, you’re fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your observations on how well the astronauts worked together in that group? I know you said you split them up in pairs, but when they were all together, did you have any observations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had observations there. Sure, there’s competition, and it was all that we—and I say we because my instructors all reported to me about it. What we saw was cooperative competition. And I realize that there’s different opinions and different personalities. We saw that. But I think we [coined] a term: it’s cooperative competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the critiques differ between the groups? Different comments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, sometimes. Some of them, yes. And a lot of them based their critiques on their personal experiences, Hollywood movies, and you could read that into the critiques, sure. I don’t recall any negative critiques. There were different levels of positivity on the critiques.\\n\\n Take Ed [Edward H.] White [II], for example. He was an outdoorsman and worked in South Florida in the Everglades as a young fellow. Oh, man, he reveled in [jungle training]. He wanted my job. I did not want his. [Laughter] He was absolutely [great], so we communicated and stayed in touch and corresponded. So did Pete Conrad and I. Of course, Pete was a motorcycle rider, and I had been, too. But there was a lot of sameness in a lot of those guys and a lot of what I did as an individual, my personal life. But their competition, for the most part that I saw, was healthy, in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they say to you that they found the most challenging part of being out there for that week?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.33752861224184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had observations there. Sure, there’s competition, and it was all that we—and I say we because my instructors all reported to me about it. What we saw was cooperative competition. And I realize that there’s different opinions and different personalities. We saw that. But I think we [coined] a term: it’s cooperative competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the critiques differ between the groups? Different comments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, sometimes. Some of them, yes. And a lot of them based their critiques on their personal experiences, Hollywood movies, and you could read that into the critiques, sure. I don’t recall any negative critiques. There were different levels of positivity on the critiques.\\n\\n Take Ed [Edward H.] White [II], for example. He was an outdoorsman and worked in South Florida in the Everglades as a young fellow. Oh, man, he reveled in [jungle training]. He wanted my job. I did not want his. [Laughter] He was absolutely [great], so we communicated and stayed in touch and corresponded. So did Pete Conrad and I. Of course, Pete was a motorcycle rider, and I had been, too. But there was a lot of sameness in a lot of those guys and a lot of what I did as an individual, my personal life. But their competition, for the most part that I saw, was healthy, in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they say to you that they found the most challenging part of being out there for that week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their previous “expert” knowledge of a tropical jungle. “Smith’s right. This is a park. Let’s have a picnic in the park.” See, Pete Conrad went twice. He came with the first group, and he came also as the escort for the Gemini people, of which he was one, too. He went through it twice because he requested it. I thought that was a great feather in our cap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any suggestions for you on how you could improve or enhance your training, or did they all feel pretty well trained when they walked out of here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.651269891656591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their previous “expert” knowledge of a tropical jungle. “Smith’s right. This is a park. Let’s have a picnic in the park.” See, Pete Conrad went twice. He came with the first group, and he came also as the escort for the Gemini people, of which he was one, too. He went through it twice because he requested it. I thought that was a great feather in our cap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any suggestions for you on how you could improve or enhance your training, or did they all feel pretty well trained when they walked out of here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought it was applied very well toward what they understood their mission would be and should there be an abort or something over some of the areas of the tropical rainforest or tropical ocean, because you couldn’t train in our training area without getting a lot of water training, besides what they had at the Air Force water survival school down in Florida. They recognized what their duties were and that this was just something to give them more confidence. They didn’t have to worry about it anymore. We got that from their critiques. After they go through the training, they didn’t worry about that. “Let’s get on with what our profession is,” modular work and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the first group go back and tell stories to the second and third groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently so, because we were zeroed in on that. The first thing I remember the second group was, of course, Pete was with them, “When are we going to do Panama City?”\\n\\n “Guys, keep quiet. We can’t talk about that. You’ll have the State Department down my neck. The ambassador’s over there watching.” Yes, I remember very distinctly. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the first group had no idea what they’d be going through. I was just wondering if that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.94585543517399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought it was applied very well toward what they understood their mission would be and should there be an abort or something over some of the areas of the tropical rainforest or tropical ocean, because you couldn’t train in our training area without getting a lot of water training, besides what they had at the Air Force water survival school down in Florida. They recognized what their duties were and that this was just something to give them more confidence. They didn’t have to worry about it anymore. We got that from their critiques. After they go through the training, they didn’t worry about that. “Let’s get on with what our profession is,” modular work and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the first group go back and tell stories to the second and third groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently so, because we were zeroed in on that. The first thing I remember the second group was, of course, Pete was with them, “When are we going to do Panama City?”\\n\\n “Guys, keep quiet. We can’t talk about that. You’ll have the State Department down my neck. The ambassador’s over there watching.” Yes, I remember very distinctly. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the first group had no idea what they’d be going through. I was just wondering if that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there was that back-channel intel [intelligence] type of things. What we did was change the exact spot. I’d say, “Oh, you guys, you’re in for a real treat. You’re going to virgin territory, virgin rainforest.” And then they’d make some caustic jokes about that…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the first group know that the Indians were observing them? Did you ever tell them that even at the end of the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.384283816859988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently so, because we were zeroed in on that. The first thing I remember the second group was, of course, Pete was with them, “When are we going to do Panama City?”\\n\\n “Guys, keep quiet. We can’t talk about that. You’ll have the State Department down my neck. The ambassador’s over there watching.” Yes, I remember very distinctly. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the first group had no idea what they’d be going through. I was just wondering if that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there was that back-channel intel [intelligence] type of things. What we did was change the exact spot. I’d say, “Oh, you guys, you’re in for a real treat. You’re going to virgin territory, virgin rainforest.” And then they’d make some caustic jokes about that…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the first group know that the Indians were observing them? Did you ever tell them that even at the end of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at the end of the training. And during the training, the cross-cultural communication thing was an essential part of the training, was they had to know that people of a remote rainforest area, depending on how you met them, it would be friendly. Because their questions were, “Well, what about the headhunters? What about the cannibals?” And we got those questions and were able to, I think, satisfactorily resolve those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take you to Houston. You said you helped prepare a kit, a survival kit, for the capsule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.982537574288875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there was that back-channel intel [intelligence] type of things. What we did was change the exact spot. I’d say, “Oh, you guys, you’re in for a real treat. You’re going to virgin territory, virgin rainforest.” And then they’d make some caustic jokes about that…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the first group know that the Indians were observing them? Did you ever tell them that even at the end of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at the end of the training. And during the training, the cross-cultural communication thing was an essential part of the training, was they had to know that people of a remote rainforest area, depending on how you met them, it would be friendly. Because their questions were, “Well, what about the headhunters? What about the cannibals?” And we got those questions and were able to, I think, satisfactorily resolve those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take you to Houston. You said you helped prepare a kit, a survival kit, for the capsule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, survival equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us what some of those items were and why you felt they were essential?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.647263971432082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at the end of the training. And during the training, the cross-cultural communication thing was an essential part of the training, was they had to know that people of a remote rainforest area, depending on how you met them, it would be friendly. Because their questions were, “Well, what about the headhunters? What about the cannibals?” And we got those questions and were able to, I think, satisfactorily resolve those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take you to Houston. You said you helped prepare a kit, a survival kit, for the capsule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, survival equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us what some of those items were and why you felt they were essential?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the main thing was the little machete with a twelve-inch blade, and it had saw teeth on the back of it for cutting through a lot of cables and fabrics and plastics that were in the capsules.\\n\\n Excuse me, could you give me [a moment]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, that’s fine.\\n\\n [Tape interruption]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.49695996825787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, survival equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us what some of those items were and why you felt they were essential?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the main thing was the little machete with a twelve-inch blade, and it had saw teeth on the back of it for cutting through a lot of cables and fabrics and plastics that were in the capsules.\\n\\n Excuse me, could you give me [a moment]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, that’s fine.\\n\\n [Tape interruption]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re talking about the kit that you helped put together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.447976291362288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the astronaut portion of the training, I can’t recall any. If you consider John Glenn dropping off in the mud, and he made that humorous. No, I don’t recall. We had a few thorns. People got something in their finger or in their hand. But they were highly motivated and well behaved, and when you have motivation like they had, and intellect, they came there with some of the Hollywood ideas about a jungle, this tropical rainforest, but also there were some topnotch scholars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Several years later you heard what they were doing, because they were moving along in the space program and traveling to space and to the Moon. What were your thoughts of where they were then compared to where they were with you just a few years before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sitting in a mobile home of a friend in Alabama, watching the TV when Neil did his thing. Pride. “We did it.” [Smith cries.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a different type of terrain than one you had helped him walk through, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But they had worked in Bolivia in the Atacama in our territory, which I had made that recommendation that NASA try that, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what a great bond between the Indians, with their spirits going to the Moon and knowing that your training connected that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 28.275529212624765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sitting in a mobile home of a friend in Alabama, watching the TV when Neil did his thing. Pride. “We did it.” [Smith cries.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a different type of terrain than one you had helped him walk through, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But they had worked in Bolivia in the Atacama in our territory, which I had made that recommendation that NASA try that, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what a great bond between the Indians, with their spirits going to the Moon and knowing that your training connected that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, let me tell you, the pride I have and the emotion, every one of those instructors has the same thing. Yeah, they’re great, and they all feel, as I know, that we all had a part of it. And it wasn’t such a small part, because NASA wanted to know, “Is there anybody that you’ve observed that we shouldn’t have in the program?” Because they were in real danger.\\n\\n And I tell you who lived up to that, is Apollo 13. They weren’t in a jungle, but they were surviving. The phone call I got after that was, “We didn’t worry about it,” because in the survival training you not only emphasize tropical rainforest that they were going to have an experience in, but also the general term in itself—self-confidence. “We can handle it.” Most important in that was that they would be able to handle anything that hit them. I remember telling my wife and the other people around me, on Apollo 13’s little adventure, “Don’t sweat it. They will improvise.” And they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jennifer, do you have any questions you’d like to ask?\n\nI have a couple of questions. I’m wondering if you can tell us exactly where the tropical survival school was, because you had mentioned that you weren’t allowed to go into Panama, but much of the training was in Panama and they worked with the different native American groups. Was it on the Air Force base? Or did it change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.690191785400003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s new on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The stew they made, that’s not quite the word they used. Gun was not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that’s why you don’t remember."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.211324206000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s new on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The stew they made, that’s not quite the word they used. Gun was not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that’s why you don’t remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why, I’m sure, I don’t remember it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the polite term for it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.901471340000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The stew they made, that’s not quite the word they used. Gun was not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that’s why you don’t remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why, I’m sure, I don’t remember it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the polite term for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They would drop an old snake in the stew or something. It wasn’t gun. But anyhow, I think that’s probably what you’re talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.779412600000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why, I’m sure, I don’t remember it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the polite term for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They would drop an old snake in the stew or something. It wasn’t gun. But anyhow, I think that’s probably what you’re talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you very much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you very much for coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I wanted to ask you, when you were working with this program or providing this program for the astronauts and for NASA, what do you consider to be the most challenging part of this program and its success for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.18446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you very much for coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I wanted to ask you, when you were working with this program or providing this program for the astronauts and for NASA, what do you consider to be the most challenging part of this program and its success for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For us at the school?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most challenging part was administrative, getting the Air Force hierarchy to leave us alone. We knew our business. We weren’t going to endanger those people, but they were not going to get any special treatment. And do you know what? I told those guys that. [They (astronauts) wanted no special treatment.]\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you’ll just walk us through a typical one and what you put them through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00545:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 24.6494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For us at the school?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most challenging part was administrative, getting the Air Force hierarchy to leave us alone. We knew our business. We weren’t going to endanger those people, but they were not going to get any special treatment. And do you know what? I told those guys that. [They (astronauts) wanted no special treatment.]\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you’ll just walk us through a typical one and what you put them through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A day in the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A day in the training and what type of equipment they had and the types of things that they had to go through during those few days out in the tropical rainforest."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 60.92871611105945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Happy to. [I know you are looking for anecdotes and stories from our NASA experience, and that you will lead or elicit these with questions. If it’s okay with you, I will feel free to digress into stories as they occur along with answering your questions.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Sure.] I’d like to begin by asking you what your interest was in aviation and engineering as a child."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a child, engineering was just something I always tended to gravitate to. It’s where my interest lied. I remember repairing bicycles, repairing toys and trinkets, taking things apart and putting them back together again. I ended up growing up on a farm in Rhode Island and that type of a talent was needed. There was always a use for somebody to go fix things, and I enjoy[ed] doing that.\\n\\n I went to West Point [the United States Military Academy, New York], where the engineering definitely got reinforced. [I] got into aviation on my second tour in Vietnam, and that’s when I decided that aviation is where I wanted to be, and to maximize that, I applied for the Navy Test Pilot School. It’s one of the Army programs. Got accepted to that, and then it was pretty much of a natural step to apply to the astronaut program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out that they were actually going to be selecting astronauts for the 1980 class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I got the word while stationed in Korea about January 1980.] I [had been] a test pilot at Edwards [Air Force Base, California] when the ’78 class was picked. Bob [Robert L.] Stewart, one of my good friends that preceded me in the ’78 class, got picked up in that group, and I kept pretty good contact with Bob to see how things went and what the process was. I was in Korea getting what we called regreened [when the class of 1980 selection began]. … So I applied while I was in Korea, and then I got invited to come back and do the interview, from Korea, which was quite a thrill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about the interview process itself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 61.07105031406713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember exactly what I said, but the theme was that I think the challenge of mankind, going into space, is such a wonderful opportunity that I am so privileged to be alive during this period of history when we’re doing that, and that it would be such a privilege to be allowed to be part of something so big, so wonderful, so grand. I don’t know if that’s what got me in there or helped a little bit or not. I think you can blow it one of those, but not make it just on that. … But I believe[d it then], and I still feel I was very, very privileged to have been part of [the nation’s space program]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you when George Abbey called you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Tucson, Arizona. I had just come back from Korea and I was en route to my next [Army] assignment, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. And George called and said, “Well, we wondered if you’re still interested in the job.”\\n\\n “Wow! Yes, of course I am.” So I diverted from Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, to Houston, Texas, and got all my household goods changed in [to] final destination, and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think when you told them you were going to be an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were excited for me. I was away from my mom and dad and brothers and sisters, but my wife was there and she was certainly excited. It had been something that they knew was a goal or a dream; they were delighted for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell me a little bit about astronaut training and the first few months of being in the Astronaut Office. What are you memories?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.81380118219544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds right. You probably know more than I do right now [about which missions I worked when]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of any of those missions or any of your time at the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a lot of memories. The one thing about the NASA family was that everybody—I think everybody—shares the dream about space. For some people it’s a job, but it’s also a job that leads to a pretty cool mission. Working with the technicians, just being able to go into the high bay or into the Orbiter processing facility and see this [big beautiful] spaceship there [was a thrill]. This is really a spaceship. You know, that’s magic. To me, it’s magic.\\n\\n [There are lots of impressions and memories. On a foggy day at KSC], Vance [D.] Brand took [a] picture of the Shuttle rolling out on the launch platform, and it’s just all foggy. I remember being in the vertical assembly building when we opened the doors for [the stack] to go out. [These doors are one hundred plus feet tall] and just fog just rolled in like it was a movie set. Everything is so [much] bigger than life, almost surrealistic, and [the fog] just made it twice as much so. I just remember [thinking], “Oh, wow.” It is just so cool being around these big monster vehicles that are going to go to space. It really is bigger than life. … Every American ought to see a launch, by the way [an experience what goes on at NASA]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s one of the things on my list."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 48.68200131355049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a lot of memories. The one thing about the NASA family was that everybody—I think everybody—shares the dream about space. For some people it’s a job, but it’s also a job that leads to a pretty cool mission. Working with the technicians, just being able to go into the high bay or into the Orbiter processing facility and see this [big beautiful] spaceship there [was a thrill]. This is really a spaceship. You know, that’s magic. To me, it’s magic.\\n\\n [There are lots of impressions and memories. On a foggy day at KSC], Vance [D.] Brand took [a] picture of the Shuttle rolling out on the launch platform, and it’s just all foggy. I remember being in the vertical assembly building when we opened the doors for [the stack] to go out. [These doors are one hundred plus feet tall] and just fog just rolled in like it was a movie set. Everything is so [much] bigger than life, almost surrealistic, and [the fog] just made it twice as much so. I just remember [thinking], “Oh, wow.” It is just so cool being around these big monster vehicles that are going to go to space. It really is bigger than life. … Every American ought to see a launch, by the way [an experience what goes on at NASA]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s one of the things on my list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, hopefully, we’ll get started again and you’ll be able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you about your class. Your classmates called themselves the “Needless Nineteen.” Can you tell me who coined that phrase?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 50.757779237278314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s one of the things on my list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, hopefully, we’ll get started again and you’ll be able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you about your class. Your classmates called themselves the “Needless Nineteen.” Can you tell me who coined that phrase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. No, I [really] don’t recall that. I mean, there was the TFNG, which Thirty-Five New Guys, which was in ’78. … [We knew we were the new guys, the last on the list. There were about fifty people ahead of us in line for a flight.] If you recall, the Shuttle hadn’t even flown yet, and [NASA] brought in thirty-five folks for the class of ’78. There was already a herd of probably forty or fifty folks already sitting in the Astronaut Office, waiting for their turn, and then they piled on, really, twenty-one, nineteen U.S. and two of the foreign folks in our class, to just jump into the waiting line. [We found a way to help.]\\n\\n I remember a couple folks saying that, “I’m not sure what we’re going to do with you all.” But there were more than enough jobs to put us all to useful work pretty quickly. Some of our guys turned out to be real workhorses to keep the [NASA or the Astronaut Office] going, like Jerry [L.] Ross."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve also heard that you were the Astronaut Office expert on EVA [Extravehicular Activity]. Can you talk to us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00533:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 65.1146726968235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, she was happy for me. She was just happy for me. I guess she had some concerns, but [I] pretty well overrode those. I mean, that’s what we were there for. In the early days, NASA chose a fairly high percentage of test pilots, folks who kind of enjoyed being on the edge just a little bit, [and who] understood the risks and wanted them. That was just part of the thrill of it, really.\\n\\n Anyway, we got constituted as a crew and Brewster brought us together [as a team]. Of that crew, really, all but Mary Cleave were experimental test pilots or experimental-trained. Jerry Ross was not a pilot, but he still went through the Air Force Test Pilot School [as a flight test engineer]. So we made Mary the flight engineer. Have you already interviewed Mary?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so she would have told you that, too. [Making her the flight engineer] got the maximum strength out of the entire crew. We backed Mary up at first, when she was learning systems, because if you’re not an aviator, some of the aviation things are not instinctive for you. But by the time we were ready fly—actually quite a while before we ready to fly—Mary was a tiger and had it all down pat, and then Jerry and I got to learn other disciplines [like satellite launch and EVA]. It was really a good combination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, your flight actually changed a couple of times. You were originally assigned to 51-D."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then to 51-L and then finally 61-B. How did all these changes and payload changes affect your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00102:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 61.12271892797137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I can't imagine that. But that was the solution, for us to fly more than the prescribed number of days we had originally planned. There was a literal problem.\\n\\n The thing that had to be managed then were the storage lockers in the Apollo command module, where you had stuff tied down and packaged and so forth. There was a lady that worked for Crew Systems Division, and I don't remember her name, but she was, I believe, a clinical nutritionist. She may have been an M.D., but I think she was a nutritionist. I remember in the review meeting we had where she produced one of these—I call them breakfast bars. [Laughter] It was like, oh, my God, these guys are going to eat these things for 100 days, three meals a day? I think they had other food interspersed, but I think that was the bulk of their diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some dedication there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to really want to fly in space to do that. [Laughter]\\n\\n That and changing the duration of the mission. We were pretty well along the way at that one question by Chris Kraft saying, \"Why the hell are we flying another fifty-six-day mission after the second mission?\" That and the conflict with prime television time were a couple of our real challenges. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite interesting challenges, at least."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00102:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 67.91413214219041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some dedication there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to really want to fly in space to do that. [Laughter]\\n\\n That and changing the duration of the mission. We were pretty well along the way at that one question by Chris Kraft saying, \"Why the hell are we flying another fifty-six-day mission after the second mission?\" That and the conflict with prime television time were a couple of our real challenges. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite interesting challenges, at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[You think] mission planning has to do with trajectories and astrophysics and everything? No, it was other considerations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "TV and candy bars."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00102:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 75.46014682465601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to really want to fly in space to do that. [Laughter]\\n\\n That and changing the duration of the mission. We were pretty well along the way at that one question by Chris Kraft saying, \"Why the hell are we flying another fifty-six-day mission after the second mission?\" That and the conflict with prime television time were a couple of our real challenges. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite interesting challenges, at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[You think] mission planning has to do with trajectories and astrophysics and everything? No, it was other considerations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "TV and candy bars."}, {"role": "user", "content": "TV and candy bars. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at Skylab and the missions as they flew, and even the planning and building up to the missions, what lessons can be learned from Skylab that either were or should be applied to future programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00102:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 40, "return_to_go": 92.7198544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can go another half an hour longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. How about you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine with me. We could tie off a little bit about the Shuttle at that point, if that works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Skylab—you mentioned some of the aspects of Skylab that could apply to Shuttle, and Skylab had its three successful missions. Apollo-Soyuz came along, but Shuttle was in development throughout this whole time frame. How did you first become involved in the Shuttle Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00102:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 82.56, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think the buildings are going once again back to the county or to the school district or something. I don't know. I think those are government-owned buildings and facilities. A lot of plants that go back to World War II, where the federal government went in and built factories, the government owns the land and the buildings. In fact, where the Shuttle external tanks are built in Michoud [Assembly Facility, New Orleans, Louisiana], that goes back to World War II as a large tank production facility, and after the war they had this big, big building under one roof, and they ended up making the tanks there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an interesting bit of history, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well armed for Trivia Pursuit. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you still play that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. During mission control and the Mercury and the Gemini and Apollo and Skylab, you were involved in all this. You talked some about how with Skylab you vamped up the computers in the Control Center. For Shuttle and for the computers on board Shuttle, and even in the Mission Control, it was so different than what happened on the earlier programs. What were some of the differences there, and were you involved in any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00248:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 52.45145259125152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think because in 2006 Constellation [Program] was so big here at the Johnson Space Center, I couldn’t keep that out of my mind. All I kept thinking is, “We need something either to test a vehicle or to test a planetary hab [habitation] module.” Those were on our mind.\\n\\n Interestingly enough, because the system is so robust and capable, we used all that to test James Webb. Especially on some of the pathfinder testing, which I know you had a question about testing things like that. If they had done those tests at Goddard, they probably would have been like 200-day tests to be able to achieve the temperatures and perform anything. We did them in 30 days, because we have the ability to take on a higher heat load and have a better thermal, stable environment.\\n\\n People were going, “We could actually create a Martian atmosphere and test things at really cold.”\\n\\n I’m like, “We absolutely can.” This chamber is not limited to creating a 20 K deep-space environment for James Webb. If we wanted to do polar simulation of Mars or one of its moons, we could create that in that chamber.\\n\\n So that was on our mind, to get back to your original question. Yes, I always want to make sure we’re doing things that are flexible and looking to the future. I really thought at the time Orion and Constellation would be doing some type of testing in the facilities post-James Webb, but unfortunately they’re not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll see what happens, we’ve still got Orion and some other programs going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They’re actually getting ready to test in another facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s too bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to just clarify. You mentioned Jacobs was doing this. They were in charge of actually building most of what you put in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00248:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 51.61272510139057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They’re actually getting ready to test in another facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s too bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to just clarify. You mentioned Jacobs was doing this. They were in charge of actually building most of what you put in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used the engineering contract here at Johnson and Jacobs to really provide the ability to get the contracts let and do the implementation and integration project management for the chamber modification. It was a huge thing for them. For a lot of the systems, myself, and people from the Department of Energy were writing all the requirements for them or reviewing and essentially worked hand-in-hand trying to maintain.\\n\\n I had a certain amount of budget with some stuff that of course the Jacobs people didn’t see. You’re trying to see their budget and how they’re managing it, and hopefully you’re not using your reserve for their problems just yet. But they did the heavy lifting, I would always say. At times we had 200 people working modifying the chamber. The chamber is filled with scaffolding; the building is filled. We had built a tent behind us, and we put air-conditioning in because we had so many people. We needed a place for people to eat lunch and take breaks, because we had welders and machinists and pipe fabricators.\\n\\n There were, at times, I would say five or six different contractors working. Cryogenic piping companies that were out of Minnesota, two or three local pipe fitters that were from the Houston area. We had the shroud companies that were from the Boston area that were all working and had very specialized fields, companies from Ohio that really dealt with our vacuum systems and pumps. We had to coordinate that and make sure people weren’t working on top of each other.\\n\\n We helped with that, but really I think Jacobs was the one who let the contracts out for all the subcontracts. But even I would review the proposals and verify that it met the requirements that I had placed down and out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything made in-house that you used?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00012:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the same everyday stuff that you have in any job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about turning points in your NARA career? Any significant turning points—maybe you found yourself in a different place than you thought you’d be when you first came to NARA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well when I first came to NARA I didn’t expect to be the renovation project manager. I expected to be in charge of Facilities and working with that but I fully thought other people would be involved with that. On completion of the renovation I moved to—a short time as Director of Space and Security and then finally to Adrienne Thomas’ Deputy position. They were all great positions. One of the continuities that we have is the fact that throughout the entire time I’ve been at NARA Adrienne Thomas either was the Deputy Assistant Archivist or the Assistant Archivist [for Administration]. And it was just a great pleasure working for her and how she set an agenda and allowed me to work within that agenda to achieve whatever I have achieved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pat, you have a deep career background from the Navy, through Proctor and Gamble, et cetera. You’ve been exposed to different management philosophies or styles. Is there anything that NARA can learn that it isn’t doing at current from those exposures that you’ve had."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00480:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 45.96545511356619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. I guess. It’s a lot of luck. I just have lucked out and been in some fascinating things. I guess anything is what you make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever make it down for a launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Apollo, no. I never saw a Saturn; I was always here during launch. I was with NASA for 34 years, and in my 34 years I saw one launch and it was Shuttle launch. Since I've been with USA now, I have a console in the firing room and I go down for every launch. I've even lost count of how many I've seen now. But yes, I would have loved to have seen a Saturn launch, but never got to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned about so many of the flights having so many similarities. But were there a lot of differences from one mission to another in the LM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were some changes over time. We changed the LM to what they call the Extended LM, where they increased the hover time and increased the stay time, and we added an extra battery to the vehicle so we could stay on the Moon longer. We modified the systems and added that capability to it. Then later, we added the [Lunar] Rover, the little car that we’d take up there, and we had to put that on the vehicle and figure out a way to deploy it. And the science experiments that we carried, every time were always different. Of course, the crews were always different. That was the biggest thing that was different was getting to deal with the different personalities, and that was fun, a great bunch of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories come to mind that you can share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00480:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.581388900000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had about six or eight pilots that were checked out in the airplane, and so you’d draw a different pilot. There was no telling who you’d be with that day. There were five of us that flew the backseat, that shared the duties. You’d stay at altitude about five to five and a half hours. There was a rule that we inherited from the military that if you fly over five and a half hours in the pressure suits, you can’t fly again for thirty hours. It’s a physiological thing. Whenever we’d go on deployments, we’d take two crews and we’d alternate flying days. If you flew one day, you couldn’t fly the next day. You’d have to stay down. We found out you couldn’t even do that for very many cycles. You could fly about three cycles in a row, where you’d fly every other day for three times, then you were just shot. You’d have to stand down. Never did really know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly often during that time period that you were working there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we flew a lot. I was in the program from ’73 to ’79, and I flew over 1,200 hours in the airplane. So you got a lot of good flying in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a mission or two that’s more memorable than the others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, later in the program there were seven or eight federal agencies in Alaska that pooled their budgets, and they were trying to photo-document the state of Alaska before it started getting all messed up with civilization. They wanted a baseline of what was there, and so we would go up there six weeks every summer and stage out of Elmendorf. We had the NASA U-2 staging out of Fairbanks and we were staging out of Elmendorf in Anchorage, and we were photo mapping the entire state of Alaska. We’d fly wherever the weather would let us fly. We did that every summer. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find a lot of changes every time you went back, or was it a lot the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00671:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.184974956004435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your thoughts. We understand that this was a very almost simplistic proposal. How were you able to move your ideas and thoughts and your expectations into something that was acceptable to NASA, so that you were chosen in that first round [of the COTS competition]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly that was our concern, that we were a very small team, and we were still trying to prove ourselves on the Falcon 1. So we didn’t really have what you’d call “street cred” [credibility] quite yet. I mean, that does help. We had enough to put into a proposal that could show technically that we thought we knew the right direction for a next-generation rocket and a next-generation spacecraft. But we didn’t have the staff and the time yet, frankly, to develop a proposal that was stacks of volumes. It really ended up being, like you said, a very condensed version of what some might think that original proposal may have looked like.\\n\\n I think if you go back and review it, you’ll find that it has all the technical merit that is needed to see that this company could actually do it. Really that’s what I think got us through that proposal and award selection, is that it had some really good technical content. It was missing some of the things that you might see in the proposals of other companies that had been around doing federal contracts and things like that. It was missing a lot of what you might have seen in other large government contracts, but maybe in one sense that was a good thing, because it cut to the chase on what did we actually propose to do, and a very technical discussion. That was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in answering questions from the evaluation process and the due diligence process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with some of the questions that you received, that they were looking for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00671:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.983305506671595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly that was our concern, that we were a very small team, and we were still trying to prove ourselves on the Falcon 1. So we didn’t really have what you’d call “street cred” [credibility] quite yet. I mean, that does help. We had enough to put into a proposal that could show technically that we thought we knew the right direction for a next-generation rocket and a next-generation spacecraft. But we didn’t have the staff and the time yet, frankly, to develop a proposal that was stacks of volumes. It really ended up being, like you said, a very condensed version of what some might think that original proposal may have looked like.\\n\\n I think if you go back and review it, you’ll find that it has all the technical merit that is needed to see that this company could actually do it. Really that’s what I think got us through that proposal and award selection, is that it had some really good technical content. It was missing some of the things that you might see in the proposals of other companies that had been around doing federal contracts and things like that. It was missing a lot of what you might have seen in other large government contracts, but maybe in one sense that was a good thing, because it cut to the chase on what did we actually propose to do, and a very technical discussion. That was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in answering questions from the evaluation process and the due diligence process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with some of the questions that you received, that they were looking for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure I can actually remember specifically. Unfortunately, this was back in 2006."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it’s been a few launches ago."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00671:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.092561674079548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with some of the questions that you received, that they were looking for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure I can actually remember specifically. Unfortunately, this was back in 2006."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it’s been a few launches ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t actually remember a specific question, but what I can tell you is people that were reviewing it came from an extensive, very experienced background in launch sites, launch infrastructure, boosters, rockets, and spacecraft. We were certainly faced with a tough challenge to try to answer all of the questions that came to us. I mean, it wasn’t like we had already developed this technology and proven it. We were proposing to finish developing it, and that it would work. There were a lot of very difficult questions, and we did our best to answer them all. Looking back, I think we answered them all through the program, but we probably could not have answered them in the proposal phase to everyone’s satisfaction. Fortunately, we still won the contract."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The [Space Act] Agreement was set up to give you flexibility."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00671:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.547290748977275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure I can actually remember specifically. Unfortunately, this was back in 2006."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it’s been a few launches ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t actually remember a specific question, but what I can tell you is people that were reviewing it came from an extensive, very experienced background in launch sites, launch infrastructure, boosters, rockets, and spacecraft. We were certainly faced with a tough challenge to try to answer all of the questions that came to us. I mean, it wasn’t like we had already developed this technology and proven it. We were proposing to finish developing it, and that it would work. There were a lot of very difficult questions, and we did our best to answer them all. Looking back, I think we answered them all through the program, but we probably could not have answered them in the proposal phase to everyone’s satisfaction. Fortunately, we still won the contract."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The [Space Act] Agreement was set up to give you flexibility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Project Exec [Executive] that was assigned to SpaceX from NASA [Michael J. “Mike” Horkachuck] that would help when you needed help, or answer questions. Talk to us about that relationship and how that worked. What were the benefits, but maybe also the restrictions of working in that type of environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.99685121387243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Crashed into Canada, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crashed into Canada with radioactive debris. People were a little concerned about Skylab since the orbital path crossed 90 percent of inhabitable areas in the world. You were relatively young at that time, and I know sometimes when we’ve talked to people in mission control during Apollo, they were so focused on what they were doing, they didn’t even know what was going on in the rest of the world. Was it like that for you, too? Were you aware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were aware. Because you could see the press articles, and you’d see people running around with funny crash helmets. But we knew the capability of the spacecraft, and we knew that the ability to really influence was pretty small. Having done the studies of the teleoperator retrieval system earlier, from my recollection we had picked orbits to actually do a controlled reentry. Skylab picked one of those orbits to come in on. The orbit that at the endgame she was aimed for was pretty much straight down the center of the Atlantic Ocean. There were uncertainty bounds on that, on the “if she comes in early” kind of bounds; it was still over the continental U.S. and Canada. Tumbling the spacecraft was meant to shift the midpoint a little bit into the South Atlantic so that you didn’t have the inhabited northeast United States and Canada under the track.\\n\\n But the orbit, as it became clear a few days out, it would have been hard to really pick a better orbit that covered that much ocean and that little inhabited ground. As it turned out, the best I can recall from those days is that the spacecraft actually held together longer than the engineering projections. That’s why some of the components did land in Australia, out in the relative Outback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was expected by the time it got over eastern U.S. to start coming apart, and it didn’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was expected to come apart and it hung together a little bit longer than the engineering analyses said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a little breath holding?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 58.88539023763604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were aware. Because you could see the press articles, and you’d see people running around with funny crash helmets. But we knew the capability of the spacecraft, and we knew that the ability to really influence was pretty small. Having done the studies of the teleoperator retrieval system earlier, from my recollection we had picked orbits to actually do a controlled reentry. Skylab picked one of those orbits to come in on. The orbit that at the endgame she was aimed for was pretty much straight down the center of the Atlantic Ocean. There were uncertainty bounds on that, on the “if she comes in early” kind of bounds; it was still over the continental U.S. and Canada. Tumbling the spacecraft was meant to shift the midpoint a little bit into the South Atlantic so that you didn’t have the inhabited northeast United States and Canada under the track.\\n\\n But the orbit, as it became clear a few days out, it would have been hard to really pick a better orbit that covered that much ocean and that little inhabited ground. As it turned out, the best I can recall from those days is that the spacecraft actually held together longer than the engineering projections. That’s why some of the components did land in Australia, out in the relative Outback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was expected by the time it got over eastern U.S. to start coming apart, and it didn’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was expected to come apart and it hung together a little bit longer than the engineering analyses said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a little breath holding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it was mission-focused. We knew the tools that we had, the capability. Skylab didn’t have a big propulsion system. It had small attitude control thrusters, and it had big gyroscopes. It really wasn’t meant for boosting and reboosting, so you had the limitations of what the spacecraft had. Like I said, the idea of tumbling it was just to make a more predictable reentry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading about debris pattern calculations that had been made. Who was doing those calculations for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 56.539322486262265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was expected to come apart and it hung together a little bit longer than the engineering analyses said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a little breath holding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it was mission-focused. We knew the tools that we had, the capability. Skylab didn’t have a big propulsion system. It had small attitude control thrusters, and it had big gyroscopes. It really wasn’t meant for boosting and reboosting, so you had the limitations of what the spacecraft had. Like I said, the idea of tumbling it was just to make a more predictable reentry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading about debris pattern calculations that had been made. Who was doing those calculations for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the small flight ops team. We also had support from engineering and from the old Mission Planning and Analysis Division that was doing a lot of that trajectory analysis and debris planning.\\n\\n Skylab was actually a project of the [NASA] Marshall Space Flight Center [Huntsville, Alabama], so we had an engineering support team from Marshall that was with us most all the time, operating out of the HOSC [Huntsville Operations Support Center] like they have done for years in support of missions. They were not full-time support until the end, but we all had counterparts at Marshall that we could deal with in terms of how the systems functioned and what was going on. The collective team of the JSC engineering and MPAD [Mission Planning and Analysis Division] folks and the Marshall folks were the ones that were doing that offline analysis of how the spacecraft was going to break apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, before it actually came in, at one point there was another Russian rocket that was coming in and NASA had a chance to practice following that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 61.71035831806918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it was mission-focused. We knew the tools that we had, the capability. Skylab didn’t have a big propulsion system. It had small attitude control thrusters, and it had big gyroscopes. It really wasn’t meant for boosting and reboosting, so you had the limitations of what the spacecraft had. Like I said, the idea of tumbling it was just to make a more predictable reentry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading about debris pattern calculations that had been made. Who was doing those calculations for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the small flight ops team. We also had support from engineering and from the old Mission Planning and Analysis Division that was doing a lot of that trajectory analysis and debris planning.\\n\\n Skylab was actually a project of the [NASA] Marshall Space Flight Center [Huntsville, Alabama], so we had an engineering support team from Marshall that was with us most all the time, operating out of the HOSC [Huntsville Operations Support Center] like they have done for years in support of missions. They were not full-time support until the end, but we all had counterparts at Marshall that we could deal with in terms of how the systems functioned and what was going on. The collective team of the JSC engineering and MPAD [Mission Planning and Analysis Division] folks and the Marshall folks were the ones that were doing that offline analysis of how the spacecraft was going to break apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, before it actually came in, at one point there was another Russian rocket that was coming in and NASA had a chance to practice following that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more NASA and the Air Force being able to exercise the tracking systems and match that to the projections of what they thought was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a little chance to make sure what they thought was going to happen really happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 66.34484257563243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the small flight ops team. We also had support from engineering and from the old Mission Planning and Analysis Division that was doing a lot of that trajectory analysis and debris planning.\\n\\n Skylab was actually a project of the [NASA] Marshall Space Flight Center [Huntsville, Alabama], so we had an engineering support team from Marshall that was with us most all the time, operating out of the HOSC [Huntsville Operations Support Center] like they have done for years in support of missions. They were not full-time support until the end, but we all had counterparts at Marshall that we could deal with in terms of how the systems functioned and what was going on. The collective team of the JSC engineering and MPAD [Mission Planning and Analysis Division] folks and the Marshall folks were the ones that were doing that offline analysis of how the spacecraft was going to break apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, before it actually came in, at one point there was another Russian rocket that was coming in and NASA had a chance to practice following that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more NASA and the Air Force being able to exercise the tracking systems and match that to the projections of what they thought was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a little chance to make sure what they thought was going to happen really happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because the Kosmos satellite took a lot of people by surprise when it landed in Canada. I think then they had an opportunity, where they had a little more knowledge of the system, and they would be able to actually track and see. But we had a lot of interest. The last few days all the media was actually set up in one of the old flight control rooms tracking things. They had a camera in our little control room where they would watch us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have interaction at all with your room?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 72.60538063959159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more NASA and the Air Force being able to exercise the tracking systems and match that to the projections of what they thought was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a little chance to make sure what they thought was going to happen really happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because the Kosmos satellite took a lot of people by surprise when it landed in Canada. I think then they had an opportunity, where they had a little more knowledge of the system, and they would be able to actually track and see. But we had a lot of interest. The last few days all the media was actually set up in one of the old flight control rooms tracking things. They had a camera in our little control room where they would watch us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have interaction at all with your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much, no. Every once in a while one of us would get asked to go down and answer a question or drag a model. I think I took a model down to Jules Bergman [broadcast science journalist] somewhere in that process, but we were not offered up as media subjects very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a good thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 80.67264515510176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because the Kosmos satellite took a lot of people by surprise when it landed in Canada. I think then they had an opportunity, where they had a little more knowledge of the system, and they would be able to actually track and see. But we had a lot of interest. The last few days all the media was actually set up in one of the old flight control rooms tracking things. They had a camera in our little control room where they would watch us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have interaction at all with your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much, no. Every once in a while one of us would get asked to go down and answer a question or drag a model. I think I took a model down to Jules Bergman [broadcast science journalist] somewhere in that process, but we were not offered up as media subjects very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when it did come in and the tumble started, and you saw that it was actually going to hit, because it didn’t break up on time, and parts of it ended up in Australia. How soon after it actually happened did you know or hear about those sightings in Australia and where it had hit exactly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 90.20674463511926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a splatdown party. We actually had one of the co-ops [cooperative education students] that was supporting us at the time—Lou Pare was very artistic. He had actually designed a splatdown T-shirt. I think I probably have one. I doubt that I fit it anymore.\\n\\n In a throwback to the Apollo days where the teams always had splashdown parties, we decided we would just coin ours a splatdown party. It was most of the team ending up at Jim Saultz’s house with a pool, and that was how we all just brought it to closure. Most of the folks had worked—I think a nine-month tour was not unusual. A few folks had been over there the whole reactivation time, which was closer to two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a news article where Australia fined NASA for littering, as a joke of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the [U.S.] Space & Rocket Center over at Marshall does have some of the components that they brought back that I got to see several years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a thing, for someone that had just graduated college, and then to have someone like Chris Kraft tell you to go ahead and send it. That’s quite a jump."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big jump. My whole mindset was that of the small town kid. To all of a sudden be in these meetings with Chris Kraft and Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz and George [W. S.] Abbey, it’s hard to describe. If you haven’t studied the history and don’t know who all these people are, that that’s who you’re dealing with on a regular basis was kind of amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I would say so, definitely amazing. Talk about what you did after that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 58.518209807957184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Charlie got to fly more than most NASA astronauts. Yes, and that’s because a lot of folks saw huge promise on what the CFES [Continuous Flow Electrophoresis System] experiment was going to do potentially for big pharma [pharmaceutical] industry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other missions during that time that you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, there were so many unique things. Every one of the repair or retrieval missions was very unique in and of itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Spacelab mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spacelab I did not do much with. That really had been a whole different set of people. That was a huge involvement with Marshall the first couple Spacelab flights. Even though Marshall staffed the Payload Ops Center, they came here at JSC and used a room in the MCC [Mission Control Center] to staff that function. Ultimately we moved it to Huntsville in what’s for ISS [International Space Station] now the POIC [Payload Operations Integration Center].\\n\\n The missions I worked really were the PAM missions and the repair and the retrieval missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the DoD [Department of Defense] flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 65.02023311995242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, there were so many unique things. Every one of the repair or retrieval missions was very unique in and of itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Spacelab mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spacelab I did not do much with. That really had been a whole different set of people. That was a huge involvement with Marshall the first couple Spacelab flights. Even though Marshall staffed the Payload Ops Center, they came here at JSC and used a room in the MCC [Mission Control Center] to staff that function. Ultimately we moved it to Huntsville in what’s for ISS [International Space Station] now the POIC [Payload Operations Integration Center].\\n\\n The missions I worked really were the PAM missions and the repair and the retrieval missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the DoD [Department of Defense] flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "DoD I did not work either. At the time I didn’t have the higher clearance. We all had fundamentally a secret clearance, but that team you had to have the top secret SCI [Sensitive Compartmented Information] kind of clearances, so I did not work those missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that you had moved to section head. Was that the Commercial Payload Section?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 71.13359235550269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spacelab I did not do much with. That really had been a whole different set of people. That was a huge involvement with Marshall the first couple Spacelab flights. Even though Marshall staffed the Payload Ops Center, they came here at JSC and used a room in the MCC [Mission Control Center] to staff that function. Ultimately we moved it to Huntsville in what’s for ISS [International Space Station] now the POIC [Payload Operations Integration Center].\\n\\n The missions I worked really were the PAM missions and the repair and the retrieval missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the DoD [Department of Defense] flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "DoD I did not work either. At the time I didn’t have the higher clearance. We all had fundamentally a secret clearance, but that team you had to have the top secret SCI [Sensitive Compartmented Information] kind of clearances, so I did not work those missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that you had moved to section head. Was that the Commercial Payload Section?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the Commercial Payload Section. After Challenger they decided that they weren’t going to fly commercial payloads, so it would not make sense for me to be head of a Commercial Payload Section anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, working up towards that there were those payload specialists like the senators, and then Bill Nelson flew the one right before Challenger. Over this time, especially with the PAMs and doing sims, how closely did you work with the astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 67.92621372833632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "DoD I did not work either. At the time I didn’t have the higher clearance. We all had fundamentally a secret clearance, but that team you had to have the top secret SCI [Sensitive Compartmented Information] kind of clearances, so I did not work those missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that you had moved to section head. Was that the Commercial Payload Section?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the Commercial Payload Section. After Challenger they decided that they weren’t going to fly commercial payloads, so it would not make sense for me to be head of a Commercial Payload Section anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, working up towards that there were those payload specialists like the senators, and then Bill Nelson flew the one right before Challenger. Over this time, especially with the PAMs and doing sims, how closely did you work with the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very closely. Because it was so new I probably spent more time working directly with the early crews than I might otherwise, because the training group was still getting up to speed on some of the payload training stuff. We were probably just a little bit ahead of that team, although they became a stronger and stronger piece as we got further along.\\n\\n All of the early crews—Bill [William B.] Lenoir and Joe [Joseph P.] Allen were the principal crew that I worked with on STS-5. John [M.] Fabian and Sally [K. Ride] on STS-7. Dale [A.] Gardner on STS-8. Then I had Vance [D. Brand] again as a commander on 41B, and for the PAM business that was [Bob] Stewart and [Ronald E.] McNair focused on the PAM stuff. Bruce [McCandless] was all focused on the MMU.\\n\\n Through my mission control time, through 61C, I spent a lot of time with the crews, whether as part of their training process or mission execution.—I usually did the beginning PAM familiarization training for all of the crews. Then ultimately over time somebody forced me to write it all down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, as far as writing all those instructions or those procedures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 67.598549901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was history. But it also made me realize that I’m one of the older guys now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s always a shock, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those guys that had been through the Apollo 1 accident help after Challenger, as far as helping to guide you through that process that things are going to change, things are going to happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they tried to message that, guys like Gene. If you think back then, Chris [Kraft] had retired. He was working at Rockwell [International Corp.]. A lot of the management had changed, but Gene was still there. I think even Glynn had left. I’m trying to remember now all the management changes. But they tried to message that.\\n\\n The challenge was you were in a terribly uncertain political environment. You had an Acting Administrator because [NASA Administrator] Mr. [James M. “Jim”] Beggs was off fighting legal issues. You had Bill [William R.] Graham, then quickly after that they had brought Jesse [W.] Moore in to fill a role. You saw a lot of instability, from my view. I saw a lot of instability in Headquarters, whereas what I had seen in the past was not really that at all.\\n\\n While these folks tried to message that, I think they didn’t really know what political environment they were in either. It really was more about “Those of us that are working on understanding the failure are doing that, those of us that are working on modifying the vehicle are doing that. Those of you that aren’t as involved, we have other things for you to do.” But you really had gone from going crazy flying flights at a pretty high flight rate to having a lot more idle time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were assigned—or suggested that you work with Space Station, that was still here at JSC at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00270:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 75.10949989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those guys that had been through the Apollo 1 accident help after Challenger, as far as helping to guide you through that process that things are going to change, things are going to happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they tried to message that, guys like Gene. If you think back then, Chris [Kraft] had retired. He was working at Rockwell [International Corp.]. A lot of the management had changed, but Gene was still there. I think even Glynn had left. I’m trying to remember now all the management changes. But they tried to message that.\\n\\n The challenge was you were in a terribly uncertain political environment. You had an Acting Administrator because [NASA Administrator] Mr. [James M. “Jim”] Beggs was off fighting legal issues. You had Bill [William R.] Graham, then quickly after that they had brought Jesse [W.] Moore in to fill a role. You saw a lot of instability, from my view. I saw a lot of instability in Headquarters, whereas what I had seen in the past was not really that at all.\\n\\n While these folks tried to message that, I think they didn’t really know what political environment they were in either. It really was more about “Those of us that are working on understanding the failure are doing that, those of us that are working on modifying the vehicle are doing that. Those of you that aren’t as involved, we have other things for you to do.” But you really had gone from going crazy flying flights at a pretty high flight rate to having a lot more idle time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were assigned—or suggested that you work with Space Station, that was still here at JSC at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was still here at JSC, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that move to Reston [Virginia]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 61.916860065392385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only because you guys make me busy. I’m happy to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn that NASA was hiring a new class of scientist-astronauts, Dr. Allen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been a graduate student at Yale University [New Haven, Connecticut]. I was close to finishing a Ph.D. It was 1966; there [were] some small news articles about NASA having selected a few individuals [to be astronauts] who were not test pilots, but rather were scientists. I was intrigued by that, not because I was interested, but just as kind of a curious thing. In my recollection of it then, the middle 1960s were troubled times, but maybe one possible bright spot was this Apollo Program. It was clearly dangerous, it was adventuresome, and if it worked, humankind would actually set foot on another planet. And to me, that was most interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any potential advantages or drawbacks that you considered when you were applying for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer, I maybe should be embarrassed to tell you [this]. I saw some kind of a notice on a graduate school bulletin board that anyone interested [in NASA] should write. I was not interested in becoming an astronaut, but I was [very curious about] the process that they were going to use [to select these people]. So I wrote out of a curiosity, not out of an interest in the job. I was quite keen on the adventure of people going into space, and it was great fun to watch on TV, but I had no real intent or even [hope] of doing that. Like were I to buy a lottery ticket today, I would not expect to win the lottery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were actually planning on becoming an academic?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 68.79651118376931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been a graduate student at Yale University [New Haven, Connecticut]. I was close to finishing a Ph.D. It was 1966; there [were] some small news articles about NASA having selected a few individuals [to be astronauts] who were not test pilots, but rather were scientists. I was intrigued by that, not because I was interested, but just as kind of a curious thing. In my recollection of it then, the middle 1960s were troubled times, but maybe one possible bright spot was this Apollo Program. It was clearly dangerous, it was adventuresome, and if it worked, humankind would actually set foot on another planet. And to me, that was most interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any potential advantages or drawbacks that you considered when you were applying for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer, I maybe should be embarrassed to tell you [this]. I saw some kind of a notice on a graduate school bulletin board that anyone interested [in NASA] should write. I was not interested in becoming an astronaut, but I was [very curious about] the process that they were going to use [to select these people]. So I wrote out of a curiosity, not out of an interest in the job. I was quite keen on the adventure of people going into space, and it was great fun to watch on TV, but I had no real intent or even [hope] of doing that. Like were I to buy a lottery ticket today, I would not expect to win the lottery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were actually planning on becoming an academic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on a very good track to go on as a junior faculty member at a university and become a teacher of physics. I liked physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the application and the interview process."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 57.01036875815641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[At the] graduation ceremony there at the flight wing, and I was given all the awards and then the top trophy [by the wing commander], and I took it home to my wife. I said, “Bonnie, I came home with a trophy.”\\n\\n She said, “Well, it’s about time. You don’t even have a bowling trophy.” [Laughter] So, her making that equivalent of a bowling trophy sort of put me back in the right place again. But I was a good pilot. I was a very good pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How useful do you think that experience was for either the Apollo Program or any of the other programs that you worked on for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not at all. [Laughs] But that’s unfair, because to be qualified in an airplane does give you a way to think about things that’s extremely disciplined. [Later], when you get in a spacecraft, that’s important, and you take that disciplined way [with you]. That’s good. ...\\n\\n Secondly, a spacecraft flies totally [differently] from an airplane. But [airplane experience] does make you very familiar with the way you use checklists and be doubly cautious here and very careful there. I think it’s particularly useful to somebody, to say, a scientist, particularly an experimentalist, who just says, “Well, what the hell. Why don’t we try this?” That’s not the approach you want to take to a spacecraft. You do not want to try any experiment. You want to only do it according to the cookbook, exactly as people know it will work and respond. There’s no place for imagination or invention in a spaceship. So I think [flying] was a good fundamental background [training. Of course, today] there are many astronauts now [who] are not flight-qualified. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So NASA realized it was kind of a thing of the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you came back from flight school, what did you do? What did you work on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 34.25905922596617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keep going. Keep going, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us a little bit about the field trips that you took for Apollo 15."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I will refer you, by the way, to one of Tom Hanks’ shows, [From the Earth to the Moon]. I don’t know if you’ve ever watched those. But one of those, and I think it’s called [Galileo Was Right]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I know which one you’re referring to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a very nice rendition, and it comes actually—those things are based on Andy [Andrew] Chaikin’s book, that I’m sure you guys know of, and it has to do with how the scientists and the teaching scientists started to become involved with the strange new class that were called astronauts. I saw that again recently, and I sat and watched it with Lee [Leon T.] Silver, who was one of the professors, who is a grand man. Is his name on here, by the way? He’s a character and a half. He is a teacher’s teacher. … Several persons [whom he instructed] got so hooked on the science that they still [follow] it as a hobby, and one of those is John [W.] Young. I don’t know if you’re aware of that. Here John Young’s a Navy test pilot, for goodness sakes. He’s a test pilot’s test pilot. He, John, knows as much about lunar geology as a hobby—as a hobby—as many college professors know about it as a profession, and it’s due in large part to the inspiration that Lee Silver brought to [us all].\\n\\n Now, your question, again, was what was my recollection of it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your recollections of the field trips for Apollo 15. Where did you go, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.180732147681006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember. Not very many people, because in those years you could get various things aboard the spacecraft. Later we no longer do, but the feather just went aboard. The hammer was already there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to tell Ed [Edward I.] Fendell that the experiment might occur so that he could actually film the experiment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We were well aware if they had time when they were going to do it, yes. But they pretty much were filming everything. But Ed, indeed, was there and got it. I was thrilled.\\n\\n And I tell you, up until the time I saw it, you know, there’s all sorts of things that can happen here there’s not going to be good, including static electricity. What if when he lets go of the feather it doesn’t really leave his hand? Which I was quite worried about. I mean, it could just sort of sit on the tape and never let it go anyplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It all worked out, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked out beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you propose any other experiments for the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.867480164090008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We were well aware if they had time when they were going to do it, yes. But they pretty much were filming everything. But Ed, indeed, was there and got it. I was thrilled.\\n\\n And I tell you, up until the time I saw it, you know, there’s all sorts of things that can happen here there’s not going to be good, including static electricity. What if when he lets go of the feather it doesn’t really leave his hand? Which I was quite worried about. I mean, it could just sort of sit on the tape and never let it go anyplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It all worked out, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked out beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you propose any other experiments for the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Jennifer, golly. None that pop into my head. We were talking about various things all the time. There was a very long list of formally proposed experiments that were carried out, but I can’t claim to have contributed any of the original thinking to any of those, although how one got it implemented, we worked hard on implementation of the experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us the details of implementing an experiment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.281176900000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s always kind of a fun thing. First of all, it’s totally unofficial, and you just do it so you have [names] as you look at the maps and talk about this [crater and that feature]. The real crew members have no time to think about [such trivia], but you, as the support crew, can kind of arbitrarily do it. By then, we had some very good friends [who] were geologists, and we had terrific fun naming them. I still have lunar traverse maps that have those names still on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you select the names?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just where my hobbies and interests were. I even kind of forget what they are right now, but there are some characters from science fiction, and a couple of names were names of music compositions done by my brother-in-law, David Darling, who was then and still is a professional musician. He has written music and gives it quite inventive names. I think Ghost Beads Crater is an example, because he wrote this very haunting piece called “Ghost Beads.” I forget what some of the other names were. Icarus is another crater. Well, that’s from, I guess, Icarus is a Greek God? Maybe Roman. No, I think it’s Greek, because Icarus was the one that invented wings from wax, then flew too close to the sun. But David had written a piece called “Icarus.” That actually was the name of an album at the time, his album."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to talk to you a little bit about your role as the lunar EVA CapCom."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.534641000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s always kind of a fun thing. First of all, it’s totally unofficial, and you just do it so you have [names] as you look at the maps and talk about this [crater and that feature]. The real crew members have no time to think about [such trivia], but you, as the support crew, can kind of arbitrarily do it. By then, we had some very good friends [who] were geologists, and we had terrific fun naming them. I still have lunar traverse maps that have those names still on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you select the names?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just where my hobbies and interests were. I even kind of forget what they are right now, but there are some characters from science fiction, and a couple of names were names of music compositions done by my brother-in-law, David Darling, who was then and still is a professional musician. He has written music and gives it quite inventive names. I think Ghost Beads Crater is an example, because he wrote this very haunting piece called “Ghost Beads.” I forget what some of the other names were. Icarus is another crater. Well, that’s from, I guess, Icarus is a Greek God? Maybe Roman. No, I think it’s Greek, because Icarus was the one that invented wings from wax, then flew too close to the sun. But David had written a piece called “Icarus.” That actually was the name of an album at the time, his album."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to talk to you a little bit about your role as the lunar EVA CapCom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of exciting moments when you were working that shift, in particular when they found the Genesis Rock."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.038490000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just where my hobbies and interests were. I even kind of forget what they are right now, but there are some characters from science fiction, and a couple of names were names of music compositions done by my brother-in-law, David Darling, who was then and still is a professional musician. He has written music and gives it quite inventive names. I think Ghost Beads Crater is an example, because he wrote this very haunting piece called “Ghost Beads.” I forget what some of the other names were. Icarus is another crater. Well, that’s from, I guess, Icarus is a Greek God? Maybe Roman. No, I think it’s Greek, because Icarus was the one that invented wings from wax, then flew too close to the sun. But David had written a piece called “Icarus.” That actually was the name of an album at the time, his album."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to talk to you a little bit about your role as the lunar EVA CapCom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of exciting moments when you were working that shift, in particular when they found the Genesis Rock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk to us about what the mood was like at the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00020:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.3761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of exciting moments when you were working that shift, in particular when they found the Genesis Rock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk to us about what the mood was like at the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, you never quite would know what you had, but just based on—now, conversation, that’s all we could communicate with them, and a little bit of TV, there was an excitement about that, and again, it is interestingly documented, with some poetic license, in the movie, in the Tom Hanks production. [The rock] was physically very large. Most of the samples were small. They were just stones that came back, physically about like this [gestures], which got loaded aboard and brought back [for detailed study. But the Genesis rock was] a conglomerate. I’m not sure what it was made up of, but a lot of basic information came out of that rock. The fact that it was different and physically large and had what seemed to be quite unusual characteristics was exciting to us. There are some photographs in the NASA archives that show Dave Scott and me looking at the rock in the Lunar Curatorial Facility afterwards, all wearing our white clean-room caps and so on. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how you were able to balance the needs of the scientists during this mission versus the needs of the flight controllers and the reality of the time constraints for the astronauts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.233535197785786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’d like to start by asking you if you would share with us a little bit about your background and how you became part of the NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My college training involved the University of Washington in Seattle, and that was electrical engineering. After that, I took a master’s at UC [University of California] Berkeley in electrical engineering. That was 1948, I got out. They were hiring at Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California]—Ames was the only place hiring engineers, and so, that’s where I ended up. I was there two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you want to do with your electrical engineering degree? Why did you choose to go into that field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to learn technical things. I wanted to have a good, steady job. That’s primary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started, you said, at Ames in 1948. Tell us what you did on your first job and your first task when you were out there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.370594664206429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My college training involved the University of Washington in Seattle, and that was electrical engineering. After that, I took a master’s at UC [University of California] Berkeley in electrical engineering. That was 1948, I got out. They were hiring at Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California]—Ames was the only place hiring engineers, and so, that’s where I ended up. I was there two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you want to do with your electrical engineering degree? Why did you choose to go into that field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to learn technical things. I wanted to have a good, steady job. That’s primary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started, you said, at Ames in 1948. Tell us what you did on your first job and your first task when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first job that I recall was Ames had a project where they were hauling a so-called spaceship, but it was just a dummy, up and then letting it drop. I was an instrumentation engineer, so I designed an accelerometer to measure when it hit the ground, what the deceleration was like. It was a little instrument that would make that measurement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were you working with at that time? Do you remember who your boss was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.189549626896031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to learn technical things. I wanted to have a good, steady job. That’s primary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started, you said, at Ames in 1948. Tell us what you did on your first job and your first task when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first job that I recall was Ames had a project where they were hauling a so-called spaceship, but it was just a dummy, up and then letting it drop. I was an instrumentation engineer, so I designed an accelerometer to measure when it hit the ground, what the deceleration was like. It was a little instrument that would make that measurement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were you working with at that time? Do you remember who your boss was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. His name was Taft Wrathall, and I worked with Rudy Schubert [phonetic], and Howard [W.] Kirschbaum was the head of the group; it was instrumentation. Taft was the assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’48, Ames was still pretty new at that time. I think in 1940, I believe, was when it opened up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.766166252106701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first job that I recall was Ames had a project where they were hauling a so-called spaceship, but it was just a dummy, up and then letting it drop. I was an instrumentation engineer, so I designed an accelerometer to measure when it hit the ground, what the deceleration was like. It was a little instrument that would make that measurement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were you working with at that time? Do you remember who your boss was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. His name was Taft Wrathall, and I worked with Rudy Schubert [phonetic], and Howard [W.] Kirschbaum was the head of the group; it was instrumentation. Taft was the assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’48, Ames was still pretty new at that time. I think in 1940, I believe, was when it opened up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an established facility, and they had wind tunnels. You’d get awakened in the middle of the night by this blast because they took so much power that you couldn’t run them during the day—they had to run them at night. You’d hear, out of the clear sky, “Whoo...” That was the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel, which is the big one. It’s still around, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live close by?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.406851391229668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. His name was Taft Wrathall, and I worked with Rudy Schubert [phonetic], and Howard [W.] Kirschbaum was the head of the group; it was instrumentation. Taft was the assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’48, Ames was still pretty new at that time. I think in 1940, I believe, was when it opened up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an established facility, and they had wind tunnels. You’d get awakened in the middle of the night by this blast because they took so much power that you couldn’t run them during the day—they had to run them at night. You’d hear, out of the clear sky, “Whoo...” That was the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel, which is the big one. It’s still around, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was just married at that point, and so we lived not far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have housing for you out at the laboratory, or did you live outside the gate, out that way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1187237680329645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an established facility, and they had wind tunnels. You’d get awakened in the middle of the night by this blast because they took so much power that you couldn’t run them during the day—they had to run them at night. You’d hear, out of the clear sky, “Whoo...” That was the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel, which is the big one. It’s still around, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was just married at that point, and so we lived not far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have housing for you out at the laboratory, or did you live outside the gate, out that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in the instrumentation division?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.909693075592182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was just married at that point, and so we lived not far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have housing for you out at the laboratory, or did you live outside the gate, out that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in the instrumentation division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time I was there, and that was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about you said you had the spaceship, but not really a spaceship?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.566325639546869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in the instrumentation division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time I was there, and that was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about you said you had the spaceship, but not really a spaceship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a small project. My other project, which I had probably for about a year, involved an analog computer. In those days, there were propeller-driven aircraft, and ice would build up on the propeller. They had heaters, so they had to measure what the most efficient cycles of heating were to get the ice to melt off of the airplane propellers. That had commercial applications. When I said it was a computer, analog computer, they called it the glass monster. It was on big sheets of clear plastic, and we had all the electric circuitry, you drilled holes in it and the circuitry was all laid out so you could see it. That was a sizable project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you only use one type of propeller, or did you have different ones that you used?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.295917377274298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time I was there, and that was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about you said you had the spaceship, but not really a spaceship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a small project. My other project, which I had probably for about a year, involved an analog computer. In those days, there were propeller-driven aircraft, and ice would build up on the propeller. They had heaters, so they had to measure what the most efficient cycles of heating were to get the ice to melt off of the airplane propellers. That had commercial applications. When I said it was a computer, analog computer, they called it the glass monster. It was on big sheets of clear plastic, and we had all the electric circuitry, you drilled holes in it and the circuitry was all laid out so you could see it. That was a sizable project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you only use one type of propeller, or did you have different ones that you used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a generic propeller, I think you might say. We were under contract to the flight research group, and they were the ones that wanted this information, so they had us do this job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working a lot at night?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.106574863638109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a small project. My other project, which I had probably for about a year, involved an analog computer. In those days, there were propeller-driven aircraft, and ice would build up on the propeller. They had heaters, so they had to measure what the most efficient cycles of heating were to get the ice to melt off of the airplane propellers. That had commercial applications. When I said it was a computer, analog computer, they called it the glass monster. It was on big sheets of clear plastic, and we had all the electric circuitry, you drilled holes in it and the circuitry was all laid out so you could see it. That was a sizable project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you only use one type of propeller, or did you have different ones that you used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a generic propeller, I think you might say. We were under contract to the flight research group, and they were the ones that wanted this information, so they had us do this job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working a lot at night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the day shift, pretty much, as a junior engineer?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.007305404042343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a generic propeller, I think you might say. We were under contract to the flight research group, and they were the ones that wanted this information, so they had us do this job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working a lot at night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the day shift, pretty much, as a junior engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never worked at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.008117115602603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the day shift, pretty much, as a junior engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never worked at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I had a roommate who was in the 40 x 80, and he did some night work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did the project take you a year? Why did it take so long? Did you finish the project before you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.120130128447338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never worked at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I had a roommate who was in the 40 x 80, and he did some night work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did the project take you a year? Why did it take so long? Did you finish the project before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to build the system and then, I don’t think anything had been done like this before, and we’d get requests for data, data on certain tests, from flight research, and then give them the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a constant project every day that you worked on, or did you help design it as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.355700142719265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I had a roommate who was in the 40 x 80, and he did some night work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did the project take you a year? Why did it take so long? Did you finish the project before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to build the system and then, I don’t think anything had been done like this before, and we’d get requests for data, data on certain tests, from flight research, and then give them the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a constant project every day that you worked on, or did you help design it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you housed? What area at the Center? Were you near the big wind tunnels?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.728555714132515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to build the system and then, I don’t think anything had been done like this before, and we’d get requests for data, data on certain tests, from flight research, and then give them the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a constant project every day that you worked on, or did you help design it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you housed? What area at the Center? Were you near the big wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s a long time ago—I couldn’t tell you the layout. We were closer to the entrance than the 40 x 80. Most of the wind tunnels were towards the rear, and the engineering stuff was closer to the entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there new people coming in those two years that you were there? Were there lots of new people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.253950793480572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you housed? What area at the Center? Were you near the big wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s a long time ago—I couldn’t tell you the layout. We were closer to the entrance than the 40 x 80. Most of the wind tunnels were towards the rear, and the engineering stuff was closer to the entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there new people coming in those two years that you were there? Were there lots of new people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Maybe four or five new engineers, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it’s good that you got hired when you did. Did they start slacking off, some?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.94883421497841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s a long time ago—I couldn’t tell you the layout. We were closer to the entrance than the 40 x 80. Most of the wind tunnels were towards the rear, and the engineering stuff was closer to the entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there new people coming in those two years that you were there? Were there lots of new people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Maybe four or five new engineers, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it’s good that you got hired when you did. Did they start slacking off, some?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before there was an electronics area around here, and so there really weren’t any other people hiring electrical engineers. Yes, it was good that I got in there because that’s about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you left—why did you decide to leave NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.609815794420456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Maybe four or five new engineers, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it’s good that you got hired when you did. Did they start slacking off, some?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before there was an electronics area around here, and so there really weren’t any other people hiring electrical engineers. Yes, it was good that I got in there because that’s about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you left—why did you decide to leave NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The field that I was in was servomechanisms. I had studied that in school. There was a fellow who was pretty prominent in the field, who worked for Sperry Gyroscope in New York. You’re young, you can move around, so I took a job with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from one coast to the other, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.344239771578284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before there was an electronics area around here, and so there really weren’t any other people hiring electrical engineers. Yes, it was good that I got in there because that’s about all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you left—why did you decide to leave NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The field that I was in was servomechanisms. I had studied that in school. There was a fellow who was pretty prominent in the field, who worked for Sperry Gyroscope in New York. You’re young, you can move around, so I took a job with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from one coast to the other, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I’d never been east, and Carole [Stone] had been to New York, and she liked the east, and so it just sounded like something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What part of New York was it in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 18.160266412864758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The field that I was in was servomechanisms. I had studied that in school. There was a fellow who was pretty prominent in the field, who worked for Sperry Gyroscope in New York. You’re young, you can move around, so I took a job with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from one coast to the other, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I’d never been east, and Carole [Stone] had been to New York, and she liked the east, and so it just sounded like something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What part of New York was it in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right in the heart, okay. How long were you with Sperry?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.17807379207195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I’d never been east, and Carole [Stone] had been to New York, and she liked the east, and so it just sounded like something to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What part of New York was it in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right in the heart, okay. How long were you with Sperry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two more years—well, no, four more years, but two years—I didn’t like New York. I couldn’t stand it. Sperry had a facility in Point Mugu—Point Mugu in Southern California, at Oxnard—they had Oxnard Air Force Base. I had been working on a missile program at Sperry in New York, and so, when I went west, I took the prototypes. They sent them out there, and then I was able to work on it out there. I got back to the West Coast. We lived for two years in Oxnard, then I took another job. Then, I went into sales and I was in electronic sales for several years. The electronics industry was growing at this time, and it was just springing up. Hewlett-Packard was the big one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in the mid-1950s or late ‘50s, about that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.308970880079945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right in the heart, okay. How long were you with Sperry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two more years—well, no, four more years, but two years—I didn’t like New York. I couldn’t stand it. Sperry had a facility in Point Mugu—Point Mugu in Southern California, at Oxnard—they had Oxnard Air Force Base. I had been working on a missile program at Sperry in New York, and so, when I went west, I took the prototypes. They sent them out there, and then I was able to work on it out there. I got back to the West Coast. We lived for two years in Oxnard, then I took another job. Then, I went into sales and I was in electronic sales for several years. The electronics industry was growing at this time, and it was just springing up. Hewlett-Packard was the big one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in the mid-1950s or late ‘50s, about that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still in the Palo Alto area, give or take? Or further south?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.121078755644383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two more years—well, no, four more years, but two years—I didn’t like New York. I couldn’t stand it. Sperry had a facility in Point Mugu—Point Mugu in Southern California, at Oxnard—they had Oxnard Air Force Base. I had been working on a missile program at Sperry in New York, and so, when I went west, I took the prototypes. They sent them out there, and then I was able to work on it out there. I got back to the West Coast. We lived for two years in Oxnard, then I took another job. Then, I went into sales and I was in electronic sales for several years. The electronics industry was growing at this time, and it was just springing up. Hewlett-Packard was the big one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in the mid-1950s or late ‘50s, about that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still in the Palo Alto area, give or take? Or further south?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a couple of years, I took a job in selling. We were living in Los Angeles. I took another job, after two years, and we moved to Northern California. I was selling around the area, these were electronic things, and then I eventually started my own business and had that for about 30 years, my own selling business, manufacturer’s rep [representative], selling electronic items. Then, I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of miles."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.02342083960487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still in the Palo Alto area, give or take? Or further south?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a couple of years, I took a job in selling. We were living in Los Angeles. I took another job, after two years, and we moved to Northern California. I was selling around the area, these were electronic things, and then I eventually started my own business and had that for about 30 years, my own selling business, manufacturer’s rep [representative], selling electronic items. Then, I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of miles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up selling products to Ames or the contractors?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.026023155116523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a couple of years, I took a job in selling. We were living in Los Angeles. I took another job, after two years, and we moved to Northern California. I was selling around the area, these were electronic things, and then I eventually started my own business and had that for about 30 years, my own selling business, manufacturer’s rep [representative], selling electronic items. Then, I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of miles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up selling products to Ames or the contractors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Most of the products I was handling were in the microwave field. “Microwave” being not commercial, but mostly communications stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like the telecommunications?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.140025727907247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up selling products to Ames or the contractors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Most of the products I was handling were in the microwave field. “Microwave” being not commercial, but mostly communications stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like the telecommunications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense, all right. Do you have other memories or associations, working with the Ames group? I notice you have some clippings, there. Are there some things that you wanted to share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.266695253230274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Most of the products I was handling were in the microwave field. “Microwave” being not commercial, but mostly communications stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like the telecommunications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense, all right. Do you have other memories or associations, working with the Ames group? I notice you have some clippings, there. Are there some things that you wanted to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just clipped this article, it happened to be in the paper. I don’t think there was any questions that I had, but if you just want to know some recollections of things from Ames?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I’d love to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.851883614700306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense, all right. Do you have other memories or associations, working with the Ames group? I notice you have some clippings, there. Are there some things that you wanted to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just clipped this article, it happened to be in the paper. I don’t think there was any questions that I had, but if you just want to know some recollections of things from Ames?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I’d love to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mountain View and Palo Alto were little towns, small towns, and we’d go out and have lunch in those little towns. There was a large Hispanic population. We had a lot of Mexican food. You’ve got give me a little time to think about it.\\n\\n Some of the people that I worked with started their own companies. Harold Harrison started an electronics company and it became quite large, about 500 people. We stayed friends. John Dimeff was a physicist. Harry [J.] DeVoto was the artist, all the drawings and that sort of thing, but he also was a great artist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Harry on any of the designs for anything that you worked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.502092905222562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just clipped this article, it happened to be in the paper. I don’t think there was any questions that I had, but if you just want to know some recollections of things from Ames?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I’d love to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mountain View and Palo Alto were little towns, small towns, and we’d go out and have lunch in those little towns. There was a large Hispanic population. We had a lot of Mexican food. You’ve got give me a little time to think about it.\\n\\n Some of the people that I worked with started their own companies. Harold Harrison started an electronics company and it became quite large, about 500 people. We stayed friends. John Dimeff was a physicist. Harry [J.] DeVoto was the artist, all the drawings and that sort of thing, but he also was a great artist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Harry on any of the designs for anything that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Jack [John V.] Foster. You said he was associated with something in space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6689921169139577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mountain View and Palo Alto were little towns, small towns, and we’d go out and have lunch in those little towns. There was a large Hispanic population. We had a lot of Mexican food. You’ve got give me a little time to think about it.\\n\\n Some of the people that I worked with started their own companies. Harold Harrison started an electronics company and it became quite large, about 500 people. We stayed friends. John Dimeff was a physicist. Harry [J.] DeVoto was the artist, all the drawings and that sort of thing, but he also was a great artist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Harry on any of the designs for anything that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Jack [John V.] Foster. You said he was associated with something in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a project, it was a spaceship that went out from the Earth and it just kept going and going and going, and 15-20 years later, it was still sending back signals [Pioneer Project]. They have it back in the space museum back in Washington, DC. It was an amazing program. It didn’t get much publicity, but here it was, after 30 years in one direction, sending signals back. That’s pretty amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, so many of us think that’s a common thing, but it certainly wasn’t common back when you were out there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8544356854599529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Jack [John V.] Foster. You said he was associated with something in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a project, it was a spaceship that went out from the Earth and it just kept going and going and going, and 15-20 years later, it was still sending back signals [Pioneer Project]. They have it back in the space museum back in Washington, DC. It was an amazing program. It didn’t get much publicity, but here it was, after 30 years in one direction, sending signals back. That’s pretty amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, so many of us think that’s a common thing, but it certainly wasn’t common back when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Palo Alto and Mountain View when they were a small town. Was it a good place to live? Mountain View?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.060484094955503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a project, it was a spaceship that went out from the Earth and it just kept going and going and going, and 15-20 years later, it was still sending back signals [Pioneer Project]. They have it back in the space museum back in Washington, DC. It was an amazing program. It didn’t get much publicity, but here it was, after 30 years in one direction, sending signals back. That’s pretty amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, so many of us think that’s a common thing, but it certainly wasn’t common back when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Palo Alto and Mountain View when they were a small town. Was it a good place to live? Mountain View?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed a lot, since you first lived in Mountain View?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2894267721727815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were telling me about Palo Alto and Mountain View when they were a small town. Was it a good place to live? Mountain View?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed a lot, since you first lived in Mountain View?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Lots of people, now. There weren’t many. There was maybe two or three restaurants in Mountain View, and now there’s probably 50. Palo Alto’s the same way. There just weren’t people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came from University of Washington down here, did you stay in a house, like a rooming, board house?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4326964135253129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed a lot, since you first lived in Mountain View?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Lots of people, now. There weren’t many. There was maybe two or three restaurants in Mountain View, and now there’s probably 50. Palo Alto’s the same way. There just weren’t people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came from University of Washington down here, did you stay in a house, like a rooming, board house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I roomed with another fellow and we had a room in somebody’s home, yes. His name was Merritt Oldacre [phonetic], and he was in the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s the one that had to work at night, you were telling me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5918849039170142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Lots of people, now. There weren’t many. There was maybe two or three restaurants in Mountain View, and now there’s probably 50. Palo Alto’s the same way. There just weren’t people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came from University of Washington down here, did you stay in a house, like a rooming, board house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I roomed with another fellow and we had a room in somebody’s home, yes. His name was Merritt Oldacre [phonetic], and he was in the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s the one that had to work at night, you were telling me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had some. When we both applied for work, we met each other, and we said, “What about getting a room together,” and we did, a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ride a bicycle to work or did one of you have a car? Do you remember how you got to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.768761004352238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I roomed with another fellow and we had a room in somebody’s home, yes. His name was Merritt Oldacre [phonetic], and he was in the 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s the one that had to work at night, you were telling me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had some. When we both applied for work, we met each other, and we said, “What about getting a room together,” and we did, a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ride a bicycle to work or did one of you have a car? Do you remember how you got to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably had a ride pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good—that’s a pretty long walk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.96529000483582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had some. When we both applied for work, we met each other, and we said, “What about getting a room together,” and we did, a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ride a bicycle to work or did one of you have a car? Do you remember how you got to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably had a ride pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good—that’s a pretty long walk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that’s what we had. I wish I had more to tell you, but as you get older, your memory fades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, and so much was changing, then. Was that considered a new field of what you were working on when you came to work at Ames as an electrical engineer? You mentioned you were working with the glass monster. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1836555609286887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably had a ride pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good—that’s a pretty long walk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that’s what we had. I wish I had more to tell you, but as you get older, your memory fades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, and so much was changing, then. Was that considered a new field of what you were working on when you came to work at Ames as an electrical engineer? You mentioned you were working with the glass monster. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There weren’t any computers, per se. Nothing. This was just a machine that would sort of simulate what you were trying to get information on. You built a machine that simulated it, and it’d give you the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you worked with any type of those computers at the university, or was this the first one that you had worked with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4262839565874317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that’s what we had. I wish I had more to tell you, but as you get older, your memory fades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, and so much was changing, then. Was that considered a new field of what you were working on when you came to work at Ames as an electrical engineer? You mentioned you were working with the glass monster. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There weren’t any computers, per se. Nothing. This was just a machine that would sort of simulate what you were trying to get information on. You built a machine that simulated it, and it’d give you the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you worked with any type of those computers at the university, or was this the first one that you had worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work on any university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was new for you, that’s good. Did you have something you want to ask? I think Sandra has a question for you.\n\nDid they provide any training classes for you when you first got here that you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.695871062874924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There weren’t any computers, per se. Nothing. This was just a machine that would sort of simulate what you were trying to get information on. You built a machine that simulated it, and it’d give you the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you worked with any type of those computers at the university, or was this the first one that you had worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work on any university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was new for you, that’s good. Did you have something you want to ask? I think Sandra has a question for you.\n\nDid they provide any training classes for you when you first got here that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no training classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember going to any kind of formalized training, and was the idea that you were learning from the men above you, and they served as your mentors as you learned to do these different projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9954122920832487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work on any university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was new for you, that’s good. Did you have something you want to ask? I think Sandra has a question for you.\n\nDid they provide any training classes for you when you first got here that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no training classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember going to any kind of formalized training, and was the idea that you were learning from the men above you, and they served as your mentors as you learned to do these different projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t report to somebody who I learned things from. They just more or less doled out jobs, and we did what we could. It was a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the servomechanisms. A couple of other people have mentioned them, but do you want to explain what that is?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3282358800924983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no training classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember going to any kind of formalized training, and was the idea that you were learning from the men above you, and they served as your mentors as you learned to do these different projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t report to somebody who I learned things from. They just more or less doled out jobs, and we did what we could. It was a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the servomechanisms. A couple of other people have mentioned them, but do you want to explain what that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say you’ve got your arm, and you put things on your arm that make it so much stronger, a super arm. This would be you move your fingers and you’re moving very hard things to move. When you put a little pressure on something, it makes the machinery so that you can move something that’s very heavy. It tracks where you want to move it. It lightens your job, so you have to have sensors, measuring things, and then amplifiers telling—just putting out your arm like this, if you had a monstrously heavy arm and you could hardly support it, you would have a sensor telling you, you wanted to move but you couldn’t move it, so that sensor had to go into an amplifier, something with a big electric motor being run from the amplifier. If you moved it just a little ways, the motor would move exactly the same amount. Then, if you moved it a lot, the motor would move a lot. You could move something very heavy, very precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they were working on that at NACA—did you have any involvement with the servomechanisms when you were with NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6980398667694425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t report to somebody who I learned things from. They just more or less doled out jobs, and we did what we could. It was a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the servomechanisms. A couple of other people have mentioned them, but do you want to explain what that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say you’ve got your arm, and you put things on your arm that make it so much stronger, a super arm. This would be you move your fingers and you’re moving very hard things to move. When you put a little pressure on something, it makes the machinery so that you can move something that’s very heavy. It tracks where you want to move it. It lightens your job, so you have to have sensors, measuring things, and then amplifiers telling—just putting out your arm like this, if you had a monstrously heavy arm and you could hardly support it, you would have a sensor telling you, you wanted to move but you couldn’t move it, so that sensor had to go into an amplifier, something with a big electric motor being run from the amplifier. If you moved it just a little ways, the motor would move exactly the same amount. Then, if you moved it a lot, the motor would move a lot. You could move something very heavy, very precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they were working on that at NACA—did you have any involvement with the servomechanisms when you were with NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did some work in school on them, and so, that was the field I generally had interest in. As I say, when I went to Sperry, they had this missile program, but it used a lot of these principles of servos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of what they were doing at NACA with the servos?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.108933185299381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say you’ve got your arm, and you put things on your arm that make it so much stronger, a super arm. This would be you move your fingers and you’re moving very hard things to move. When you put a little pressure on something, it makes the machinery so that you can move something that’s very heavy. It tracks where you want to move it. It lightens your job, so you have to have sensors, measuring things, and then amplifiers telling—just putting out your arm like this, if you had a monstrously heavy arm and you could hardly support it, you would have a sensor telling you, you wanted to move but you couldn’t move it, so that sensor had to go into an amplifier, something with a big electric motor being run from the amplifier. If you moved it just a little ways, the motor would move exactly the same amount. Then, if you moved it a lot, the motor would move a lot. You could move something very heavy, very precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they were working on that at NACA—did you have any involvement with the servomechanisms when you were with NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did some work in school on them, and so, that was the field I generally had interest in. As I say, when I went to Sperry, they had this missile program, but it used a lot of these principles of servos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of what they were doing at NACA with the servos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wanted to move on from NACA at that point, okay.\\n\\n They were having inspections, I think, every three years at the different Centers. They would go from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and Ames and Lewis [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, now Glenn Research Center]. Do you remember any of those, like, in those couple of years you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.565481316999311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did some work in school on them, and so, that was the field I generally had interest in. As I say, when I went to Sperry, they had this missile program, but it used a lot of these principles of servos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of what they were doing at NACA with the servos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wanted to move on from NACA at that point, okay.\\n\\n They were having inspections, I think, every three years at the different Centers. They would go from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and Ames and Lewis [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, now Glenn Research Center]. Do you remember any of those, like, in those couple of years you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by an inspection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where people from the other Centers would come in and then everybody would present papers on what they were working on. Do you have any recollections of that happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.072757018888123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wanted to move on from NACA at that point, okay.\\n\\n They were having inspections, I think, every three years at the different Centers. They would go from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and Ames and Lewis [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, now Glenn Research Center]. Do you remember any of those, like, in those couple of years you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by an inspection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where people from the other Centers would come in and then everybody would present papers on what they were working on. Do you have any recollections of that happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they did any of that when I was there. I don’t recall it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about social activities onsite? Any athletic groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.636396687653471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by an inspection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where people from the other Centers would come in and then everybody would present papers on what they were working on. Do you have any recollections of that happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they did any of that when I was there. I don’t recall it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about social activities onsite? Any athletic groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own, if we had a ball team or played something like that. I don’t remember any ball teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and your wife meet?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.262662986281634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they did any of that when I was there. I don’t recall it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about social activities onsite? Any athletic groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own, if we had a ball team or played something like that. I don’t remember any ball teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and your wife meet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met on a blind date. She was with somebody else and I was with somebody else. Are you listening? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nAm I telling it right? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nThen our first three dates were on skis. We both liked to ski, and we did a lot of that during our married life, too, skiing. I don’t know—we hit it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so, you’ve been together for how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.847403318090704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own, if we had a ball team or played something like that. I don’t remember any ball teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and your wife meet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met on a blind date. She was with somebody else and I was with somebody else. Are you listening? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nAm I telling it right? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nThen our first three dates were on skis. We both liked to ski, and we did a lot of that during our married life, too, skiing. I don’t know—we hit it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so, you’ve been together for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost 64 [years]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long time. Lot of places."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.386003686767449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met on a blind date. She was with somebody else and I was with somebody else. Are you listening? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nAm I telling it right? <SPEAKER>C. Stone</SPEAKER>\\n\\n Yes.\n\nThen our first three dates were on skis. We both liked to ski, and we did a lot of that during our married life, too, skiing. I don’t know—we hit it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so, you’ve been together for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost 64 [years]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long time. Lot of places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seems like only yesterday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad to hear that.\n\nWere you involved at all in writing any reports on what you were working on? The NACA had the technical memorandums and the technical reports?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6511152075193873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost 64 [years]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long time. Lot of places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seems like only yesterday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad to hear that.\n\nWere you involved at all in writing any reports on what you were working on? The NACA had the technical memorandums and the technical reports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had to write reports to the people, the flight research group that we were working for. The fellow’s name that I reported to, his name was—he had a strange name. His first name was Carr and his last name was Neel [Carr B. Neel]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we heard someone mention him today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.94568356391043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seems like only yesterday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad to hear that.\n\nWere you involved at all in writing any reports on what you were working on? The NACA had the technical memorandums and the technical reports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had to write reports to the people, the flight research group that we were working for. The fellow’s name that I reported to, his name was—he had a strange name. His first name was Carr and his last name was Neel [Carr B. Neel]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we heard someone mention him today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he still around, do you think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so.\n\nWhat were the results? Did you get to finish that project before you left, the de-icing project you were working on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2729817376782555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had to write reports to the people, the flight research group that we were working for. The fellow’s name that I reported to, his name was—he had a strange name. His first name was Carr and his last name was Neel [Carr B. Neel]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we heard someone mention him today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he still around, do you think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so.\n\nWhat were the results? Did you get to finish that project before you left, the de-icing project you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just a continual thing. It was something you keep making measurements on, you build them equipment, then you keep checking it out. I didn’t work with the engineer, per se. I built the equipment to make his measurements, but he was working with the aircraft manufacturers about de-icing on the propellers, and I didn’t get in, in that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were in school, did you have projects where you had to build different types of tools? What did you learn out of school, or what did you take in school that helped you be ready to do that job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6366463751980618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he still around, do you think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so.\n\nWhat were the results? Did you get to finish that project before you left, the de-icing project you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just a continual thing. It was something you keep making measurements on, you build them equipment, then you keep checking it out. I didn’t work with the engineer, per se. I built the equipment to make his measurements, but he was working with the aircraft manufacturers about de-icing on the propellers, and I didn’t get in, in that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were in school, did you have projects where you had to build different types of tools? What did you learn out of school, or what did you take in school that helped you be ready to do that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Courses in servomechanisms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your master’s, you said, was in electrical engineering as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.040718194664513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just a continual thing. It was something you keep making measurements on, you build them equipment, then you keep checking it out. I didn’t work with the engineer, per se. I built the equipment to make his measurements, but he was working with the aircraft manufacturers about de-icing on the propellers, and I didn’t get in, in that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were in school, did you have projects where you had to build different types of tools? What did you learn out of school, or what did you take in school that helped you be ready to do that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Courses in servomechanisms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your master’s, you said, was in electrical engineering as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right, solid state, it was just coming into its own, in those days. In fact, the term “solid state” wasn’t even around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a very evolving field for many years. I guess your sales job was always trying to catch up or be up to date with the latest products?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.48968688296057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Courses in servomechanisms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your master’s, you said, was in electrical engineering as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right, solid state, it was just coming into its own, in those days. In fact, the term “solid state” wasn’t even around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a very evolving field for many years. I guess your sales job was always trying to catch up or be up to date with the latest products?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a representative, you represent different companies. You have maybe 10 companies you represent and you go in and talk to somebody, and he could buy something from two or three of the companies. You work with him and get him in liaison with the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your background as an engineer come in handy in that job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9885409810673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right, solid state, it was just coming into its own, in those days. In fact, the term “solid state” wasn’t even around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a very evolving field for many years. I guess your sales job was always trying to catch up or be up to date with the latest products?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a representative, you represent different companies. You have maybe 10 companies you represent and you go in and talk to somebody, and he could buy something from two or three of the companies. You work with him and get him in liaison with the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your background as an engineer come in handy in that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you choose Palo Alto to come back to, to live?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.542823312296999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a representative, you represent different companies. You have maybe 10 companies you represent and you go in and talk to somebody, and he could buy something from two or three of the companies. You work with him and get him in liaison with the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your background as an engineer come in handy in that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you choose Palo Alto to come back to, to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.936470346996666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you choose Palo Alto to come back to, to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came back, Hewlett-Packard and such companies similar, there were many—Ampex—just a flock of them. It was just a good place for an engineer to be. Just as an aside, I actually started in school in the journalism school, and I was going to be a sportswriter. But, I was in the Naval ROTC and the captain said, “Maybe you better get a little more technical in your course,” so I started taking some electrical engineering courses. It’s a strange twist, but I had to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but it worked out well. If you were good with words, and it helped you be good with sales, so that’s helpful. Speaking of the products that you represented, is there some that come to mind as being kind of more memorable than others?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1516337188851846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came back, Hewlett-Packard and such companies similar, there were many—Ampex—just a flock of them. It was just a good place for an engineer to be. Just as an aside, I actually started in school in the journalism school, and I was going to be a sportswriter. But, I was in the Naval ROTC and the captain said, “Maybe you better get a little more technical in your course,” so I started taking some electrical engineering courses. It’s a strange twist, but I had to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but it worked out well. If you were good with words, and it helped you be good with sales, so that’s helpful. Speaking of the products that you represented, is there some that come to mind as being kind of more memorable than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the companies, AirTEC [phonetic], built some special amplifiers that were used in the first Moon shot. They were selling to somebody else, who was putting them in the equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always the discussion of how small, but how powerful the products were, and then, of course, how not powerful they are compared to what we have now. The transistors, and those types of products that were used for the Apollo Program and the space program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3907041320946494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came back, Hewlett-Packard and such companies similar, there were many—Ampex—just a flock of them. It was just a good place for an engineer to be. Just as an aside, I actually started in school in the journalism school, and I was going to be a sportswriter. But, I was in the Naval ROTC and the captain said, “Maybe you better get a little more technical in your course,” so I started taking some electrical engineering courses. It’s a strange twist, but I had to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but it worked out well. If you were good with words, and it helped you be good with sales, so that’s helpful. Speaking of the products that you represented, is there some that come to mind as being kind of more memorable than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the companies, AirTEC [phonetic], built some special amplifiers that were used in the first Moon shot. They were selling to somebody else, who was putting them in the equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always the discussion of how small, but how powerful the products were, and then, of course, how not powerful they are compared to what we have now. The transistors, and those types of products that were used for the Apollo Program and the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you something interesting—I was working at Ames and I received in the mail from one of the big companies in the east, a little package. It said, “This is called a transistor. Would you try it out?” They gave it to me because I was one of the junior engineers. They gave it out to try it out, and I couldn’t get it to work. I never thought it had any future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did, didn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6563379245496104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the companies, AirTEC [phonetic], built some special amplifiers that were used in the first Moon shot. They were selling to somebody else, who was putting them in the equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always the discussion of how small, but how powerful the products were, and then, of course, how not powerful they are compared to what we have now. The transistors, and those types of products that were used for the Apollo Program and the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you something interesting—I was working at Ames and I received in the mail from one of the big companies in the east, a little package. It said, “This is called a transistor. Would you try it out?” They gave it to me because I was one of the junior engineers. They gave it out to try it out, and I couldn’t get it to work. I never thought it had any future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember other products? Did you represent Hewlett-Packard as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9514865828329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you something interesting—I was working at Ames and I received in the mail from one of the big companies in the east, a little package. It said, “This is called a transistor. Would you try it out?” They gave it to me because I was one of the junior engineers. They gave it out to try it out, and I couldn’t get it to work. I never thought it had any future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember other products? Did you represent Hewlett-Packard as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. I sold to them. They were one of our biggest customers, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one to have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.279429536481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember other products? Did you represent Hewlett-Packard as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. I sold to them. They were one of our biggest customers, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one to have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in ’57? Just the feeling in how the U.S. was moving more towards rocket and spaceflight at that point? Did you ever think about coming back to someplace like Ames, or work for NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.64381059609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. I sold to them. They were one of our biggest customers, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one to have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in ’57? Just the feeling in how the U.S. was moving more towards rocket and spaceflight at that point? Did you ever think about coming back to someplace like Ames, or work for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think at that point, I was in sales, and I didn’t want to go back into engineering because sales was very interesting and had a lot more future to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Met lots of people in your job, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0486784401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in ’57? Just the feeling in how the U.S. was moving more towards rocket and spaceflight at that point? Did you ever think about coming back to someplace like Ames, or work for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think at that point, I was in sales, and I didn’t want to go back into engineering because sales was very interesting and had a lot more future to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Met lots of people in your job, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, I’ll say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the people that you worked with, you said they had started their own businesses. Did you have dealings with them, or did they have a business that you could sell to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.387420489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think at that point, I was in sales, and I didn’t want to go back into engineering because sales was very interesting and had a lot more future to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Met lots of people in your job, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, I’ll say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the people that you worked with, you said they had started their own businesses. Did you have dealings with them, or did they have a business that you could sell to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those things. One of the fellows I knew at Ames was the one that started this business called AirTEC. I became his representative in the area, and it became my biggest seller. They were the ones making these amplifiers that went to the Moon shot. It all sort of ties together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does, yes. Good friendships that started.\n\nAre you involved with the alumni group for the NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.43046721000000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, I’ll say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the people that you worked with, you said they had started their own businesses. Did you have dealings with them, or did they have a business that you could sell to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those things. One of the fellows I knew at Ames was the one that started this business called AirTEC. I became his representative in the area, and it became my biggest seller. They were the ones making these amplifiers that went to the Moon shot. It all sort of ties together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does, yes. Good friendships that started.\n\nAre you involved with the alumni group for the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I’ll tell you one thing I did do that involved, I guess it may have been NASA by then. They had a group that took classes of young kids, maybe fourth, fifth, sixth graders, and Ames had a simulator. Does this ring a bell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they had simulators."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those things. One of the fellows I knew at Ames was the one that started this business called AirTEC. I became his representative in the area, and it became my biggest seller. They were the ones making these amplifiers that went to the Moon shot. It all sort of ties together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does, yes. Good friendships that started.\n\nAre you involved with the alumni group for the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I’ll tell you one thing I did do that involved, I guess it may have been NASA by then. They had a group that took classes of young kids, maybe fourth, fifth, sixth graders, and Ames had a simulator. Does this ring a bell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they had simulators."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They simulated a spaceship, so you bring these kids in, and there’s different stations in there. Here’s this kid that sits down at the station, and he has a computer there, and you say, “Okay, you’re in a spaceship and you’re observing forest fires down on the ground, and you can tell how hot it is by the color of the fire.” Then, you can tell space control what’s happening, are the fires burning brighter on the north side? Here’s fourth and fifth graders with this job to do, and they’re looking at the computer screen and telling the captain of their spaceship, and he’s another kid, fourth grader or fifth grader who’s the captain of the spaceship, and he’s telling somebody else down on the Earth. The kids just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help with those groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I’ll tell you one thing I did do that involved, I guess it may have been NASA by then. They had a group that took classes of young kids, maybe fourth, fifth, sixth graders, and Ames had a simulator. Does this ring a bell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they had simulators."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They simulated a spaceship, so you bring these kids in, and there’s different stations in there. Here’s this kid that sits down at the station, and he has a computer there, and you say, “Okay, you’re in a spaceship and you’re observing forest fires down on the ground, and you can tell how hot it is by the color of the fire.” Then, you can tell space control what’s happening, are the fires burning brighter on the north side? Here’s fourth and fifth graders with this job to do, and they’re looking at the computer screen and telling the captain of their spaceship, and he’s another kid, fourth grader or fifth grader who’s the captain of the spaceship, and he’s telling somebody else down on the Earth. The kids just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help with those groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one of the workers, but then they cut the program off. They said they didn’t have the money, and it was a shame. The teachers would bring the classes in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned a lot, didn’t they, just by being exposed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They simulated a spaceship, so you bring these kids in, and there’s different stations in there. Here’s this kid that sits down at the station, and he has a computer there, and you say, “Okay, you’re in a spaceship and you’re observing forest fires down on the ground, and you can tell how hot it is by the color of the fire.” Then, you can tell space control what’s happening, are the fires burning brighter on the north side? Here’s fourth and fifth graders with this job to do, and they’re looking at the computer screen and telling the captain of their spaceship, and he’s another kid, fourth grader or fifth grader who’s the captain of the spaceship, and he’s telling somebody else down on the Earth. The kids just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help with those groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one of the workers, but then they cut the program off. They said they didn’t have the money, and it was a shame. The teachers would bring the classes in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned a lot, didn’t they, just by being exposed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been back out to Ames, other than that then working with those groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one of the workers, but then they cut the program off. They said they didn’t have the money, and it was a shame. The teachers would bring the classes in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned a lot, didn’t they, just by being exposed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been back out to Ames, other than that then working with those groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been back out to Ames, other than that then working with those groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure it has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s getting ready to celebrate its 75th anniversary, so they’ll have an open house, maybe you’ll have a chance to go take a ride out there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure it has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s getting ready to celebrate its 75th anniversary, so they’ll have an open house, maybe you’ll have a chance to go take a ride out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October, I believe they said. I haven’t heard the whole date, but if I find out, I’ll send you an email. I won’t be here, but you can go and you can tell us about it.\\n\\n Is there anything else you can think of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure it has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s getting ready to celebrate its 75th anniversary, so they’ll have an open house, maybe you’ll have a chance to go take a ride out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October, I believe they said. I haven’t heard the whole date, but if I find out, I’ll send you an email. I won’t be here, but you can go and you can tell us about it.\\n\\n Is there anything else you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Everything contributes, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does because I’ve never heard about the glass monster before. That was pretty neat, and about the whole electronics side. We hadn’t heard too much about that, either. I think Mr. [Smith J.]DeFrance was the Director—did you ever have any dealings with him, or ever meet him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October, I believe they said. I haven’t heard the whole date, but if I find out, I’ll send you an email. I won’t be here, but you can go and you can tell us about it.\\n\\n Is there anything else you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Everything contributes, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does because I’ve never heard about the glass monster before. That was pretty neat, and about the whole electronics side. We hadn’t heard too much about that, either. I think Mr. [Smith J.]DeFrance was the Director—did you ever have any dealings with him, or ever meet him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not personally. I tried to stay away. He was the boss. Smith J. DeFrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a name, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00978:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Everything contributes, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does because I’ve never heard about the glass monster before. That was pretty neat, and about the whole electronics side. We hadn’t heard too much about that, either. I think Mr. [Smith J.]DeFrance was the Director—did you ever have any dealings with him, or ever meet him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not personally. I tried to stay away. He was the boss. Smith J. DeFrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a name, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a boss’s name. When we send you the transcript, if you think of something else, then we can add it in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.32107159724387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's not good. We absolutely couldn't find anything wrong. I was in the blockhouse. The Air Force leaders in the blockhouse. Lewis [G.] Dunn was in the blockhouse. We were at countdown, countdown. Everything was okay. There was no problem. The telemetry was perfect. But it blew up. So all the pieces were taken, we laid them out. Every scrap of film that anybody had was used.\\n\\n And one day about—took about a month, we were looking at a film and there was a Douglas aircraft technician, two of them, pulling a liquid oxygen hose, with the back of it in the dirt. Even a few grains of sand in a percussion, under pressure, in liquid oxygen can be an explosion, and there was, because of the requirement that to shift the fuel from a ground tank to what was in the missile itself, there was a great big valve there, and that was reproduced after it was tested and some sand was put in, an explosion was created. You could then see that the pieces of the valve could only go together if they had broken outwardly, and that led, then, to a conclusion that what caused the failure was a fire and explosion of dirty— [Laughter] Naturally, that changed the procedures. But after all that work, all the work, it was a dumb thing. [Laughter] And luckily, the next one flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned lessons from the first one and were able to apply them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of an exciting time. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A very exciting time, overall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Si Ramo, who, among all of his other characteristics, has a fantastic sense of humor, said, \"Well, we've shown it can fly. The only problem is, it has a 1,500-mile CEP [Circular Error Probable].\" [Laughter] It was aimed to go into a spot down range, which it never got to. So we missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only missed by 1,500."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.69007955249319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of an exciting time. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A very exciting time, overall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Si Ramo, who, among all of his other characteristics, has a fantastic sense of humor, said, \"Well, we've shown it can fly. The only problem is, it has a 1,500-mile CEP [Circular Error Probable].\" [Laughter] It was aimed to go into a spot down range, which it never got to. So we missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only missed by 1,500."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By 1,500 miles. Maybe he told you that story, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He mentioned it briefly. He did. So it's good to hear."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 37.43342172499243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Si Ramo, who, among all of his other characteristics, has a fantastic sense of humor, said, \"Well, we've shown it can fly. The only problem is, it has a 1,500-mile CEP [Circular Error Probable].\" [Laughter] It was aimed to go into a spot down range, which it never got to. So we missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only missed by 1,500."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By 1,500 miles. Maybe he told you that story, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He mentioned it briefly. He did. So it's good to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it from the other end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were doing these programs and beginning to flight test the missiles and having successes and failures, how much was the public aware of what was going on? And if they were, what was their reaction, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 38.25935747221381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By 1,500 miles. Maybe he told you that story, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He mentioned it briefly. He did. So it's good to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it from the other end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were doing these programs and beginning to flight test the missiles and having successes and failures, how much was the public aware of what was going on? And if they were, what was their reaction, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally, I think the public was not aware of very much of what was going on. Obviously, once the missiles got to the launch stage, the test stage, and they were there, it was known. But in the earliest period, there was pretty good security.\\n\\n Ramo-Wooldridge, as Si may have mentioned, started in a barbershop, chairs were moved out for office space. But then the next facility was a Catholic church, and the pews and the choir loft were emptied. The computer was put there, and that was the next office building. And General Schriever, who was across the street in a building, had his officers and his headquarters there. After a little while, there was a question among some of the local residents, \"Why are these Air Force officers in civilian clothes cashing checks here?\" [Laughter] But it was not known what precisely they were doing. So for, I'd say, probably for the first year and a half, until the launches began, it was pretty well held."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program began to move forward and as Sputnik was going up, and then the Americans began to make efforts for launching our own satellite, were you at all involved in discussions on that, on American response to Sputnik?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.49943091452359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the ad that said \"The last 100 miles is on us.\" [Laughter] Had an advertisement that was broadcast of that. And it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did. It worked great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One little incident. I don't know if you want these kinds of stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in about 1967 or '68, I hadn't gone, myself, to Cleveland yet at that point. I was still here on the West Coast. I had a call from the chairman of TRW. He said, \"My God! We're responsible for this. The whole world's going to be watching. Oh! Is it too late to get out?\" [Laughter] He was kind of kidding. \"Is it too late to get out of it?\"\\n\\n So the answer was, there was great apprehension everywhere. We had it, but the astronauts, I'm certain, had it more, about whether they could actually accomplish, and there was a question how would it be when the blast out of the engines stirred up the moon dust, and could they even see. It was just a complete adventure into new territory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been so rewarding to see it work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.777145460581767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One little incident. I don't know if you want these kinds of stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in about 1967 or '68, I hadn't gone, myself, to Cleveland yet at that point. I was still here on the West Coast. I had a call from the chairman of TRW. He said, \"My God! We're responsible for this. The whole world's going to be watching. Oh! Is it too late to get out?\" [Laughter] He was kind of kidding. \"Is it too late to get out of it?\"\\n\\n So the answer was, there was great apprehension everywhere. We had it, but the astronauts, I'm certain, had it more, about whether they could actually accomplish, and there was a question how would it be when the blast out of the engines stirred up the moon dust, and could they even see. It was just a complete adventure into new territory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been so rewarding to see it work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were when they landed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.863494956201965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in about 1967 or '68, I hadn't gone, myself, to Cleveland yet at that point. I was still here on the West Coast. I had a call from the chairman of TRW. He said, \"My God! We're responsible for this. The whole world's going to be watching. Oh! Is it too late to get out?\" [Laughter] He was kind of kidding. \"Is it too late to get out of it?\"\\n\\n So the answer was, there was great apprehension everywhere. We had it, but the astronauts, I'm certain, had it more, about whether they could actually accomplish, and there was a question how would it be when the blast out of the engines stirred up the moon dust, and could they even see. It was just a complete adventure into new territory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been so rewarding to see it work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were when they landed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I absolutely do. [Laughter] I know exactly where I was. I was in Cleveland that day, and I was in a building and took an elevator down. There was a woman in the elevator who was talking to a friend, and she says, \"You know, they say they're going to land on the moon. That's ridiculous. That can't happen.\" [Laughter] That's what this lady thought.\\n\\n I went to where we lived. No point in being down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. We watched it on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked wonderfully."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.181661062446626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were when they landed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I absolutely do. [Laughter] I know exactly where I was. I was in Cleveland that day, and I was in a building and took an elevator down. There was a woman in the elevator who was talking to a friend, and she says, \"You know, they say they're going to land on the moon. That's ridiculous. That can't happen.\" [Laughter] That's what this lady thought.\\n\\n I went to where we lived. No point in being down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. We watched it on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked wonderfully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, it even worked for Apollo 13. The engine was critical in that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.75740118049625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I absolutely do. [Laughter] I know exactly where I was. I was in Cleveland that day, and I was in a building and took an elevator down. There was a woman in the elevator who was talking to a friend, and she says, \"You know, they say they're going to land on the moon. That's ridiculous. That can't happen.\" [Laughter] That's what this lady thought.\\n\\n I went to where we lived. No point in being down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. We watched it on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked wonderfully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, it even worked for Apollo 13. The engine was critical in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.17489020055139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, it even worked for Apollo 13. The engine was critical in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed. The minute that happened, we were on line continuously, and anybody that knew anything in TRW about that engine or anything about it was immediately available. We had a large group of engineers in Houston [Texas] on a program that was designed, I think very wisely designed, by NASA to try to anticipate things that might go wrong, so that what if this occurs, what do you do? What if this occurs, what do you do? What new software would be needed? Or whatever.\\n\\n So that while no one anticipated Apollo 13, there was a background there of several years of work at Houston, and we and other contractors—we were not alone in this—worked on the \"what if\" questions. And there's no question in my mind that that kind of preparatory information and thinking helped the people who really made the decisions when the Apollo 13 accident happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been good to see that all come to a successful conclusion, getting back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.860989111723764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed. The minute that happened, we were on line continuously, and anybody that knew anything in TRW about that engine or anything about it was immediately available. We had a large group of engineers in Houston [Texas] on a program that was designed, I think very wisely designed, by NASA to try to anticipate things that might go wrong, so that what if this occurs, what do you do? What if this occurs, what do you do? What new software would be needed? Or whatever.\\n\\n So that while no one anticipated Apollo 13, there was a background there of several years of work at Houston, and we and other contractors—we were not alone in this—worked on the \"what if\" questions. And there's no question in my mind that that kind of preparatory information and thinking helped the people who really made the decisions when the Apollo 13 accident happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been good to see that all come to a successful conclusion, getting back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back a little bit toward the early programs as the missions were progressing for the Mercury, first was Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.]. He actually went up on a Redstone, and right after his launch, President [John F.] Kennedy came out and said, \"Hey, let's go to the moon by the end of the decade. Let's do it safely, bring them then back to Earth,\" which then led to Apollo. What did you think when you heard that announcement, that challenge?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.84302716680005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program progressed and the manned program continued, were you able to go down and see some of these launches?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. Many of them. [Laughter] I was in the blockhouse on many, in the '56, '57, '58 time period, but also was able to go down to the Cape and see the launches much later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting to see, having seen the launches first as a flight test to get the missile active, and for such an important part of national security and then to see them applied in such a different way, but yet the space program itself must have had some impact for national security as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed, and politically for foreign policy circles. I think it was a clear demonstration, as I said earlier, of the American industrial system that was noticed and known around the whole world. So it did have broader implications.\\n\\n But to your question, it was very exciting. [Laughter] And to know what our hardware was going there and, of course, all of our contractors knew that and felt that, I'm sure, not just we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exciting to be a part of such a program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01010:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 35.3811412964445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. Many of them. [Laughter] I was in the blockhouse on many, in the '56, '57, '58 time period, but also was able to go down to the Cape and see the launches much later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting to see, having seen the launches first as a flight test to get the missile active, and for such an important part of national security and then to see them applied in such a different way, but yet the space program itself must have had some impact for national security as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed, and politically for foreign policy circles. I think it was a clear demonstration, as I said earlier, of the American industrial system that was noticed and known around the whole world. So it did have broader implications.\\n\\n But to your question, it was very exciting. [Laughter] And to know what our hardware was going there and, of course, all of our contractors knew that and felt that, I'm sure, not just we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exciting to be a part of such a program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over time, and as NASA grew, as TRW grew, and as the Air Force, how did the relationships change and the involvements in the programs? Did that continue to evolve?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00007:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.83873633297075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, well, I was in that one and then I was promoted to a GS-5 technician and after a year and a half or so, I don't remember how many years, quite a few in that position. So, in 2015 I was promoted to a team lead to start up an audit team within the FRC there and then in September of 2015, I was hired on as the archivist at the Lenexa Records Center. So, I was with the FRC for 11 and a half years, roughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your duties change when you became a GS-5 and then a team lead?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so as of GS-5 you basically were preparing the work for the grade 4s, and so you would get the work that came in from the IRS, you would prepare a batch and get it ready and then move it on. Then the team lead, say, I was only in that position for seven months, so we had just started setting it up. I think if I remember right, just before I switched, they brought in two people to help me out because we were like, say, we spent most of that six or seven months just trying to set everything up and getting an idea of what it was going to encompass. But then I transferred out into the archives. So, I didn't have a whole lot of experience on the other side of things, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to apply for the archives position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so, I had obviously always had an interest in history with a history degree and everything. I had contemplated applying for positions at the archives before, but they were always down at the archives, which is a considerably further distance away from me. And the convenience of working at Lenexa always appealed to me. And so that position was basically the best of both worlds. I was in Lenexa and I was at the archives. And so I was like, OK, if you're going to have a position out here, I'll apply for that. So I took a swing at it and fortunately I was hired, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what do your duties as an archivist entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00007:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.761524665402757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the patent files are certainly a preference, as far as a record group, but I truly enjoy reference. I enjoy working with the researchers. I have some regular researchers that generally work with companies that are looking for document retrieval services. But I've got academic researchers that contact me regularly. Most of those are for patent records. I never know what I'm going to go into, what somebody is going to ask for. And when it comes to the patent records with that, I mean, I learn things about all sorts of areas of innovation that I had no idea about before. And it's always a thrill to see what's out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are interesting, the patent records are a very interesting record group. You're lucky to have access to those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I consider myself very, very lucky to have those files there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, thinking back on your career, even when you were working at the records center, are there any particular challenges you faced while at the archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Particular challenges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you faced while working; you may not have."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00007:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.179471850447506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I consider myself very, very lucky to have those files there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, thinking back on your career, even when you were working at the records center, are there any particular challenges you faced while at the archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Particular challenges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you faced while working; you may not have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well so, you know. I don't know, I can't think of any particular challenges necessarily, I mean, the size becomes one of the issues, particularly prior to the archives when it was a records center. The facility, I think I kind of measured it out once, and from room 1 to room 16 is in the neighborhood of maybe a third to a half of a mile. So, if you're going from one side of the place to the other, it can be a long haul, but I don't know. I can't really think of any specific challenges beyond just the physical aspect of how big the place is sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, the folks in the records center always did really well on those health challenges that we did."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00007:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 37.97719094494167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Particular challenges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you faced while working; you may not have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well so, you know. I don't know, I can't think of any particular challenges necessarily, I mean, the size becomes one of the issues, particularly prior to the archives when it was a records center. The facility, I think I kind of measured it out once, and from room 1 to room 16 is in the neighborhood of maybe a third to a half of a mile. So, if you're going from one side of the place to the other, it can be a long haul, but I don't know. I can't really think of any specific challenges beyond just the physical aspect of how big the place is sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, the folks in the records center always did really well on those health challenges that we did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. My brief time was the audit team because you were checking things all over the place. I mean, it was amazing how much walking I would do. And then when I switched to the archives, it was like, OK. And I still walk a fair way, but it's nothing like I used to. Because I just have basically three bays that I'm in. So it's a fairly small area relative to the whole place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that you're particularly proud of that you've done at the archives or major successes?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00007:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.271501790000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not that I can think of, I've covered a lot. I could go on and on, but we'll leave it at that for now at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we can always have another interview, but I did want to talk to you a little bit about COVID because it sounds like you've actually been going in, which is interesting, but we'll get there. I was going to ask you when did you first hear about COVID-19/coronavirus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably January of 2020, somewhere in that neighborhood. Just kind of, you know, seeing little news stories here and there, and talk about its spread. I didn't pay too much attention to it at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we've been in various phases, but I guess going back to the lockdown to today, have you been going in or have you been mainly working from home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were open from, I believe, it was July 20 to November 6, we were in phase one, so I was going in two or three days a week, and then we just opened again March 29. So we've been in for about two weeks and again, doing two or three days a week. And then the other staff person goes in on the other days when I'm not there, so. The rest is all telework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of projects have you been working on during telework?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.77544485801796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What we needed. The IBM people came and developed FORTRAN from MAC really more than the other way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume FORTRAN could be adapted for other things, and maybe it was not as good for spaceflight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then much later, in the 1990s, FORTRAN did become an algebraic language, too. But it took an awful long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading an article by Don Eyles. He’s written a lot, so I was looking over some of it, and he mentioned in an article that your boss, George [W.] Cherry, once said that—this is the quote, “The perfect is the enemy of the good.” He said that George Cherry thought that software designers were considered the prima donnas by NASA because they couldn’t—and this is another quote, “quit fiddling and let the product out of the door.”\\n\\n How did you balance that? I would think there was a perfectionist component to what you were doing. You were trying to make things work as well, because it was a matter of life and death with the astronauts and with the hardware. How did you balance that safety aspect with the push to hurry up and get Apollo going and get things going and get it done? Was that ever a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever a problem. We just had to be sure that everything that we did was going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that with simulations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.972716508908842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then much later, in the 1990s, FORTRAN did become an algebraic language, too. But it took an awful long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading an article by Don Eyles. He’s written a lot, so I was looking over some of it, and he mentioned in an article that your boss, George [W.] Cherry, once said that—this is the quote, “The perfect is the enemy of the good.” He said that George Cherry thought that software designers were considered the prima donnas by NASA because they couldn’t—and this is another quote, “quit fiddling and let the product out of the door.”\\n\\n How did you balance that? I would think there was a perfectionist component to what you were doing. You were trying to make things work as well, because it was a matter of life and death with the astronauts and with the hardware. How did you balance that safety aspect with the push to hurry up and get Apollo going and get things going and get it done? Was that ever a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever a problem. We just had to be sure that everything that we did was going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that with simulations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend doing simulations and correcting the code and the programs? Was it a lot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.303018343232047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever a problem. We just had to be sure that everything that we did was going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that with simulations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend doing simulations and correcting the code and the programs? Was it a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very much. We simulated everything so there could be no doubt that we had tested everything and made sure that nothing was going to blow up. It was only violating the rules of the game—like allowing the astronauts to say that we’re going to start the abort guidance before it was supposed to be started—that caused things to blow up. Because that was a violation of the rules, and it sure blew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you do the simulations? Was that at MIT, or did you go to different [NASA] Centers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.447798159146718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend doing simulations and correcting the code and the programs? Was it a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very much. We simulated everything so there could be no doubt that we had tested everything and made sure that nothing was going to blow up. It was only violating the rules of the game—like allowing the astronauts to say that we’re going to start the abort guidance before it was supposed to be started—that caused things to blow up. Because that was a violation of the rules, and it sure blew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you do the simulations? Was that at MIT, or did you go to different [NASA] Centers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other Centers could use our code and work, too. In fact, they did. Even in Florida [NASA Kennedy Space Center] they would. Anybody could use the MAC language and do simulations, too. In fact, late in the mission I found out that they had already invented something in Florida that we had then reinvented later, not knowing that they had already done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.719775732385243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very much. We simulated everything so there could be no doubt that we had tested everything and made sure that nothing was going to blow up. It was only violating the rules of the game—like allowing the astronauts to say that we’re going to start the abort guidance before it was supposed to be started—that caused things to blow up. Because that was a violation of the rules, and it sure blew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you do the simulations? Was that at MIT, or did you go to different [NASA] Centers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other Centers could use our code and work, too. In fact, they did. Even in Florida [NASA Kennedy Space Center] they would. Anybody could use the MAC language and do simulations, too. In fact, late in the mission I found out that they had already invented something in Florida that we had then reinvented later, not knowing that they had already done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the other Centers for the simulations when they were running, or at any point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.133084147094714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other Centers could use our code and work, too. In fact, they did. Even in Florida [NASA Kennedy Space Center] they would. Anybody could use the MAC language and do simulations, too. In fact, late in the mission I found out that they had already invented something in Florida that we had then reinvented later, not knowing that they had already done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the other Centers for the simulations when they were running, or at any point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I certainly went to Florida quite a few times. I don’t remember all the reasons why I did, but I certainly did do that a lot of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo 12, because that was an exciting launch because of the lightning strike."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.703426830105236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the other Centers for the simulations when they were running, or at any point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I certainly went to Florida quite a few times. I don’t remember all the reasons why I did, but I certainly did do that a lot of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo 12, because that was an exciting launch because of the lightning strike."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.22602981122804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I certainly went to Florida quite a few times. I don’t remember all the reasons why I did, but I certainly did do that a lot of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo 12, because that was an exciting launch because of the lightning strike."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pete [Charles] Conrad [Jr.] had made it perfectly clear that he was a fast thinker, and he really saved the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do that saved it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.473366456920044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pete [Charles] Conrad [Jr.] had made it perfectly clear that he was a fast thinker, and he really saved the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do that saved it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He practically instantly said, “This light is yellow, this light is blue, this light—” He just went through the entire picture of what was being warned about, and there’s no doubt in my mind that he was expecting the rocket to do this [demonstrates crashing], and that they would want to know why.\\n\\n But it didn’t, and the reason why it didn’t was that the lunar module was on top of the Saturn V rocket below it. Its being on top, that’s where the lightning struck. But the Saturn V rocket, the computer that was running that was halfway down in the waist of it, and was far enough away from where the lightning strike had happened that it was not stopped at all. It just lifted off normally.\\n\\n So it turned out that there was no real problem, it went normally into Earth orbit. The possibility that there would sometime be a need to realign everything in the lunar module had been anticipated years before, and so there was a scanning telescope and a sextant in the lunar module which could be used to reset everything in case of such a disaster happening. So everything was just reset in Earth orbit, and everything on the guidance computer resumed working normally despite having the lightning strike, and they were off to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you listening the same way you were on Apollo 11 at MIT for that one?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.859296063244493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pete [Charles] Conrad [Jr.] had made it perfectly clear that he was a fast thinker, and he really saved the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do that saved it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He practically instantly said, “This light is yellow, this light is blue, this light—” He just went through the entire picture of what was being warned about, and there’s no doubt in my mind that he was expecting the rocket to do this [demonstrates crashing], and that they would want to know why.\\n\\n But it didn’t, and the reason why it didn’t was that the lunar module was on top of the Saturn V rocket below it. Its being on top, that’s where the lightning struck. But the Saturn V rocket, the computer that was running that was halfway down in the waist of it, and was far enough away from where the lightning strike had happened that it was not stopped at all. It just lifted off normally.\\n\\n So it turned out that there was no real problem, it went normally into Earth orbit. The possibility that there would sometime be a need to realign everything in the lunar module had been anticipated years before, and so there was a scanning telescope and a sextant in the lunar module which could be used to reset everything in case of such a disaster happening. So everything was just reset in Earth orbit, and everything on the guidance computer resumed working normally despite having the lightning strike, and they were off to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you listening the same way you were on Apollo 11 at MIT for that one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that gave people a few palpitations when that happened though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.703697703466684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right, it was. They took the camera off and brought it back to Earth. It was examined on the Earth, and they found that it did have still—there had been organisms on the Surveyor which had survived for the years between when the Surveyor landed and when it was recovered—so the sterilization proved to be not working also. So there might have been a few things there that you didn’t know about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading in some of the things that you’d written down that your daughter sent, and one of them was about the LM descent erratic throttling that was discovered I think after Apollo 12. Was that when you and Don Eyles were working on that, that there was a throttling problem before Apollo 11? Don Eyles had allowed a tolerance that you thought wasn’t enough, but you decided to let his decision stand and you would worry about it later, because he needed to figure it out for himself that he needed to be closer. Do you remember that incident? I thought it was an interesting way of handling things, because as a mentor for him you were letting him figure out anything that he needed to do, or if he was making a mistake or not, but at the same time if you had made him change it then we may not have been able to land on on the Moon on Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we might do is when we’re through with the interviews, and if you’re okay with it, we’ll include your written information that your daughter gave us, because they’re pretty interesting stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it says a lot about your mentorship and the way you worked with people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.55966411496298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we might do is when we’re through with the interviews, and if you’re okay with it, we’ll include your written information that your daughter gave us, because they’re pretty interesting stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it says a lot about your mentorship and the way you worked with people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always tried to give people credit for the ideas that they had, and always take the best ideas no matter who thought of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I thought it was a pretty interesting story about how it happened and the way it was handled.\\n\\n Also, we talked about yesterday on Apollo 13 you had gone back and talked to Jim [James A.] Lovell [Jr.]. Then the coding change that you wanted to make, they went ahead and put it in for 13 instead of waiting for 14."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.17740457218109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it says a lot about your mentorship and the way you worked with people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always tried to give people credit for the ideas that they had, and always take the best ideas no matter who thought of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I thought it was a pretty interesting story about how it happened and the way it was handled.\\n\\n Also, we talked about yesterday on Apollo 13 you had gone back and talked to Jim [James A.] Lovell [Jr.]. Then the coding change that you wanted to make, they went ahead and put it in for 13 instead of waiting for 14."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I think I did mention yesterday that about 10:00 in the morning—when I’d hung up with Lovell at 7:00, about 10:00, my boss came into my office and said, “Your political savoir faire has reached a new low.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you coded the change and there was a meeting at JSC where it was accepted to go ahead, you also—and maybe you remember this—you described in something you’d written that you said to Bill [H. Wilson] Tindall [Jr.] that “dropping guidance commands sure is a kludge.” What did you mean by that, or what is a kludge? If you can explain to us what that is, as far as what you were concerned with. Is it something that ends up working even though it may not be something you expect to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.974893969090097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always tried to give people credit for the ideas that they had, and always take the best ideas no matter who thought of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I thought it was a pretty interesting story about how it happened and the way it was handled.\\n\\n Also, we talked about yesterday on Apollo 13 you had gone back and talked to Jim [James A.] Lovell [Jr.]. Then the coding change that you wanted to make, they went ahead and put it in for 13 instead of waiting for 14."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I think I did mention yesterday that about 10:00 in the morning—when I’d hung up with Lovell at 7:00, about 10:00, my boss came into my office and said, “Your political savoir faire has reached a new low.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you coded the change and there was a meeting at JSC where it was accepted to go ahead, you also—and maybe you remember this—you described in something you’d written that you said to Bill [H. Wilson] Tindall [Jr.] that “dropping guidance commands sure is a kludge.” What did you mean by that, or what is a kludge? If you can explain to us what that is, as far as what you were concerned with. Is it something that ends up working even though it may not be something you expect to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s something that you shouldn’t have to do, that’s the meaning that I had. But I don’t remember exactly what the details were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know from what you’d written that Bill Tindall was a little surprised that you had said that to him. He wasn’t sure that he was okay with that. You talked about working with him yesterday and how much respect you had for him. I thought it was an interesting story, too. We can try to include that in there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.749882187877887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I think I did mention yesterday that about 10:00 in the morning—when I’d hung up with Lovell at 7:00, about 10:00, my boss came into my office and said, “Your political savoir faire has reached a new low.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you coded the change and there was a meeting at JSC where it was accepted to go ahead, you also—and maybe you remember this—you described in something you’d written that you said to Bill [H. Wilson] Tindall [Jr.] that “dropping guidance commands sure is a kludge.” What did you mean by that, or what is a kludge? If you can explain to us what that is, as far as what you were concerned with. Is it something that ends up working even though it may not be something you expect to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s something that you shouldn’t have to do, that’s the meaning that I had. But I don’t remember exactly what the details were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know from what you’d written that Bill Tindall was a little surprised that you had said that to him. He wasn’t sure that he was okay with that. You talked about working with him yesterday and how much respect you had for him. I thought it was an interesting story, too. We can try to include that in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Tindallgrams” [Tindall’s memoranda] are well known today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they are."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.72209131986432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s something that you shouldn’t have to do, that’s the meaning that I had. But I don’t remember exactly what the details were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know from what you’d written that Bill Tindall was a little surprised that you had said that to him. He wasn’t sure that he was okay with that. You talked about working with him yesterday and how much respect you had for him. I thought it was an interesting story, too. We can try to include that in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Tindallgrams” [Tindall’s memoranda] are well known today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because his thinking was so clear and so fair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve been talking about some of the programming. You were talking about how IBM had come in and looked at the MAC language and then they created FORTRAN. But when you were actually using these languages to create a program, if there was a problem, sometimes was it easier to do a workaround and other times maybe to just redo everything? Did you make those kinds of decisions often when you were working on those programs? Or were there instances where one person wanted to do a workaround and somebody else wanted to start from scratch and redo it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.91343479984924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Tindallgrams” [Tindall’s memoranda] are well known today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because his thinking was so clear and so fair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve been talking about some of the programming. You were talking about how IBM had come in and looked at the MAC language and then they created FORTRAN. But when you were actually using these languages to create a program, if there was a problem, sometimes was it easier to do a workaround and other times maybe to just redo everything? Did you make those kinds of decisions often when you were working on those programs? Or were there instances where one person wanted to do a workaround and somebody else wanted to start from scratch and redo it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of times where people did pick among multiple different approaches to things. It was very common for different people to have different ideas about how things should work. I think that most people had the same kind of ideas that I did, that you should always use the best no matter who thought of it. I think that generally people were pretty honest about how things should be done and would discuss it. There were not very many fights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was easy to discuss with each other and get through it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 24.348260888721377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because his thinking was so clear and so fair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve been talking about some of the programming. You were talking about how IBM had come in and looked at the MAC language and then they created FORTRAN. But when you were actually using these languages to create a program, if there was a problem, sometimes was it easier to do a workaround and other times maybe to just redo everything? Did you make those kinds of decisions often when you were working on those programs? Or were there instances where one person wanted to do a workaround and somebody else wanted to start from scratch and redo it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of times where people did pick among multiple different approaches to things. It was very common for different people to have different ideas about how things should work. I think that most people had the same kind of ideas that I did, that you should always use the best no matter who thought of it. I think that generally people were pretty honest about how things should be done and would discuss it. There were not very many fights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was easy to discuss with each other and get through it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your daughter mentioned a story that you had told her—this was after Apollo—that you were asked to rewrite a system from scratch, but you recommended that the existing system be modified instead. This was when you were already at [NASA] JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California]. JPL took a team and they asked them to do the rewrite while you went ahead and did the modification or the revamping of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.516629917270802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had already made my contribution to the Shuttle, and I don’t think I described in detail what had happened on the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let’s talk about that. That was while you were still with MIT?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. One day my boss there at MIT told me that there had been three groups of people, mostly at [NASA] Johnson [Space Center], who were working on developing an ascent steering system for the Shuttle. But he knew that I had already developed one ascent steering system for other purposes. He said, “They’re having a meeting next Tuesday and Wednesday.” This was on a Friday.\\n\\n He handed me three descriptions of what the three teams at JSC were proposing to do and he said, “I’d like to have you read this over and attend the meeting and make your comments about these three things, and prepare your own ideas about how it should work.” The meetings were going to be on Tuesday and Wednesday of the next week, and so I didn’t have much time to do it, but I did make my own sketch about what I thought could be done. They were not too far different from what the other teams had done, but they were different in some basic ideas I had that it could be substantially improved.\\n\\n The meetings were on Tuesday and Wednesday, and the three other teams presented their ideas on Tuesday morning. Tuesday afternoon I was told to say how I would do it, and I did that. Then on Wednesday we went over the four ideas a second time, and Wednesday afternoon they took a vote on which idea should be used, and they voted for mine. So that was kind of a triumph. But I didn’t even vote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t vote for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t say anything more on Wednesday afternoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you work on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.637814712680001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t say anything more on Wednesday afternoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The concept had been adopted, and I knew that I was not going to be in Cambridge very long, because I had already decided years before that I was never going to work on another weapon system program, knowing what the slaughter was of Vietnamese. They were really slaughtered by American airplanes.\\n\\n So I knew that I wasn’t going to be there very long, so I wrote up in the last days there a description in enough detail so that the leader of the team at MIT, could complete all the details. So I did write the preliminary design for it. This was just a preliminary design, Al Engel led a team that completed the design. That’s what was used for Shuttle ascent steering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was MIT starting to do more military work at that time? Is that why you decided to leave then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I was told was that there’s not too much chance that we’re going to get another program like Apollo, that’s probably not going to happen. But the lab was going to move to a different building. I was shown where my office would be. I didn’t say anything about it because I knew I wasn’t going to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the opportunity opened up at JPL to go back there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.819794125200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The concept had been adopted, and I knew that I was not going to be in Cambridge very long, because I had already decided years before that I was never going to work on another weapon system program, knowing what the slaughter was of Vietnamese. They were really slaughtered by American airplanes.\\n\\n So I knew that I wasn’t going to be there very long, so I wrote up in the last days there a description in enough detail so that the leader of the team at MIT, could complete all the details. So I did write the preliminary design for it. This was just a preliminary design, Al Engel led a team that completed the design. That’s what was used for Shuttle ascent steering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was MIT starting to do more military work at that time? Is that why you decided to leave then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I was told was that there’s not too much chance that we’re going to get another program like Apollo, that’s probably not going to happen. But the lab was going to move to a different building. I was shown where my office would be. I didn’t say anything about it because I knew I wasn’t going to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the opportunity opened up at JPL to go back there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. I got an offer to return to JPL, so I did that, and worked on a whole lot more unmanned missions to the planets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that mainly what you focused on once you got back, the unmanned or the robotic?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.577549028000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I was told was that there’s not too much chance that we’re going to get another program like Apollo, that’s probably not going to happen. But the lab was going to move to a different building. I was shown where my office would be. I didn’t say anything about it because I knew I wasn’t going to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the opportunity opened up at JPL to go back there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. I got an offer to return to JPL, so I did that, and worked on a whole lot more unmanned missions to the planets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that mainly what you focused on once you got back, the unmanned or the robotic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the robotic missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Actually I had done the work on the Venus mission before I ever went to NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, you had mentioned that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.419498920000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. I got an offer to return to JPL, so I did that, and worked on a whole lot more unmanned missions to the planets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that mainly what you focused on once you got back, the unmanned or the robotic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the robotic missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Actually I had done the work on the Venus mission before I ever went to NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, you had mentioned that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That did fly, and it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of those robotic missions. I was reading about some of your work. You worked with Galileo and then the TOPEX [Ocean Topography Experiment]/Poseidon mission and the Mars Rover Sample Return. Those were all very high-profile robotic missions. Were you working on the guidance systems again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.354998800000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the robotic missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Actually I had done the work on the Venus mission before I ever went to NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, you had mentioned that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That did fly, and it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of those robotic missions. I was reading about some of your work. You worked with Galileo and then the TOPEX [Ocean Topography Experiment]/Poseidon mission and the Mars Rover Sample Return. Those were all very high-profile robotic missions. Were you working on the guidance systems again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a sequence of a whole lot of different missions that I was asked to do things on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it similar work for each one?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.283332000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That did fly, and it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of those robotic missions. I was reading about some of your work. You worked with Galileo and then the TOPEX [Ocean Topography Experiment]/Poseidon mission and the Mars Rover Sample Return. Those were all very high-profile robotic missions. Were you working on the guidance systems again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a sequence of a whole lot of different missions that I was asked to do things on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it similar work for each one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There were so many missions. You’re really looking for what happened in connection with Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not really. We’re looking for what your work was. It doesn’t have to connect to Johnson, we’re doing this for Headquarters. This interview is for whatever you did, but I’m interested in the work that you did there.\\n\\n I think the robotic missions are so important, and a lot of people, when they think of NASA they think of human spaceflight. But people outside of NASA sometimes forget that these robotic missions have been going on for years and have accomplished great things. Part of that is because of the programming and the languages that you used, and the programs that you used, and people like you to guide those robotic missions. So I think it’s important to remember that. Do you have any memories of any of those missions that really stand out, of something that you were really proud of, or something that you felt like was a real accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.12, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. The JPL middle management always chose the languages that things were going to be programmed in. So all in all I had programmed—and by the time everything was done I had programmed in like the six different languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, six different ones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, something like six. It was about six. But there was just no question about what language was the best language. It was ADA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that what you used when you were at JPL the most?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I can’t account for bad decisions. I think middle management at JPL was not as good as the management at the Draper Lab. Management of the Draper Laboratory was superb, and that’s not true of the middle management at JPL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t work on that. Do you remember when Spirit and Opportunity landed on Mars? Were you in the control room, or were you already retired at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, something like six. It was about six. But there was just no question about what language was the best language. It was ADA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that what you used when you were at JPL the most?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I can’t account for bad decisions. I think middle management at JPL was not as good as the management at the Draper Lab. Management of the Draper Laboratory was superb, and that’s not true of the middle management at JPL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t work on that. Do you remember when Spirit and Opportunity landed on Mars? Were you in the control room, or were you already retired at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did not see it actually. We had already left California on our way to Massachusetts to find a place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career—and it was 44 years—is there anything that you can think of that you think might have been your greatest challenge that you worked on? Or the thing that you’re most proud of that you accomplished?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00846:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I can’t account for bad decisions. I think middle management at JPL was not as good as the management at the Draper Lab. Management of the Draper Laboratory was superb, and that’s not true of the middle management at JPL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t work on that. Do you remember when Spirit and Opportunity landed on Mars? Were you in the control room, or were you already retired at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did not see it actually. We had already left California on our way to Massachusetts to find a place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career—and it was 44 years—is there anything that you can think of that you think might have been your greatest challenge that you worked on? Or the thing that you’re most proud of that you accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer to that is, I’d have to say that it was organizing to take a group of people, all men, to march in the march against the wars in Washington [DC], and to help to alleviate the prejudice against the blacks.\\n\\n When I was at NASA Headquarters in Washington and we lived in Falls Church, Virginia, lots of times we were going to eat dinner out, and we’d go to some restaurant and there would be a sign on the door, “Blacks need not apply,” or whatever. That they weren’t going to feed the blacks. I would always go in and ask to speak to the manager, and I don’t think that that ever failed. I always told the manager, “When that sign on your door is gone we’ll eat here, but not now.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s commendable. Not many people would do that, would take that upon themselves to stand up for other people like that, that’s wonderful. I would be proud of that, too. You definitely need to be proud of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00439:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 9.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as you go through it, or as you see holes or conflicts with other people's discussions, you can give me a call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'd be glad to help in any way I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Well, this has been fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you. [Brief interruption]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.28965668398001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was really excited. Yeah, I remember being really excited. I was in like another sort of volunteer position at the time. I was a teaching assistant at a bilingual school in Costa Rica, K through 12, that had a connection with my college. And so I'd been able to go there like basically straight from graduating. So I was in Costa Rica at the time and I was really excited to have like the opportunity to go to Peace Corps so soon after that, you know, to keep continuing like that an international experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as your family or friends heard about this, what did they think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were kind of, like I mentioned, you know, I didn't know anyone personally like before going to college that had done Peace Corps. So they were kind of like, what? Why do you want to do this? And what is it exactly again? Which I totally understood because it wasn't that long ago that, like, I didn't really know about it either. And so I just kind of talked through it. And my family has always been really supportive. So they kind of came around to the idea of like, this is what you want to do and we'll support you in that. I definitely didn't get some of those initial reactions of like, are you crazy? So, yeah, but my family, my mom, did end up coming to visit me like once a year while I was in the D.R. So that was really nice to be able to like to share that with her too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you prepare yourself in any way before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. In what way? Like any way, specifically? Or just?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Read about the D.R. or look at what resources you had you might want to take with you or things like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 30.32184075997779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were kind of, like I mentioned, you know, I didn't know anyone personally like before going to college that had done Peace Corps. So they were kind of like, what? Why do you want to do this? And what is it exactly again? Which I totally understood because it wasn't that long ago that, like, I didn't really know about it either. And so I just kind of talked through it. And my family has always been really supportive. So they kind of came around to the idea of like, this is what you want to do and we'll support you in that. I definitely didn't get some of those initial reactions of like, are you crazy? So, yeah, but my family, my mom, did end up coming to visit me like once a year while I was in the D.R. So that was really nice to be able to like to share that with her too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you prepare yourself in any way before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. In what way? Like any way, specifically? Or just?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Read about the D.R. or look at what resources you had you might want to take with you or things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I remember I think I joined a Facebook group slightly before, a little bit before leaving, where people talked about, you know, like what things were good to bring. Peace Corps sent me a packing list so I looked at that. And I read up on the D.R. I've never been there. And so I think I had stopped once in the Bahamas on a cruise, but that was like my only experience of being in the Caribbean even at all. So read up on like the region and like Dominican history and culture and environmental stuff and things like that. Um, you know, like trying to get a sense of what it might be like and things like that. I remember buying a few things like hiking boots, headlamp, things like that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk a little about the training, how it prepared you for your assignment. Who did the training and what did it cover?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.839046780455098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's really amazing how much it varies even within the size of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Makes training difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know if any volunteers were asked to leave during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asked to leave during training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did some decide to leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.376718644950108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know if any volunteers were asked to leave during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asked to leave during training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did some decide to leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An older couple had left, like a couple who were both retired. One was a retired teacher. I can't remember off hand what the other one did. Um, but they'd end up leaving because they had, one of them had like kind of recurring like health issues and ended up thinking, you know, like, it's not worth it for me to be like have my health failing like this when they don't have to stay here. And so they ended up ETing, I think, like within a couple of weeks after moving out to site because they just weren't getting better. But yeah, that was after training. I don't remember anyone leaving during training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What were your initial reactions to the people and the physical environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.715236997842652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Palmar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about the people in El Palmar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so it was like traditionally like an agricultural community, not so much the sugar cane, but people would have like conucos, like their little farms, generally not super big scale. You know, something like one family can manage, just like on their own or with like a little bit of help here and there, like hiring other people. So growing plantains was really common. Also, some people had cows and some other like fruits and vegetables like people would have. But that was generally more like not like industrial scale, but more just kind of like people planting trees like in their yards, like a tree here and there, like in their conucos, in their farms or gardens. So a lot of that, yeah. And then some people would have jobs like in the sugar cane fields too.\n\nAnd it didn't have, like that community doesn't have like the kind of Haitian descendant connection, you know, it wasn't founded like as a batey. So it tends to be more like strictly Dominican. And so a lot of people would get sometimes like slightly higher up jobs or like higher up jobs in the sugar cane, you know, like to be not cutting a cane, but like to be like a mechanic, like helping to fix like some of the machinery that was breaking and things like that. And so that was also like an income source for people in the community. Yeah, generally very relaxing. It wasn't like urban community or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a town center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a central park. Yeah. And so that's probably like the biggest town center. The school tends to also be like a big, like an important place in the community. There's a primary school and a high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the specifics of the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9894910845632947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you extend it and how did your role change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really loved living in the D.R. I mean, definitely lots of challenges, you know, kind of comes with the territory. But I felt that like I hadn't gotten really settled in the country, you know, like settled into the work and felt like, you know, there's kind of like a learning curve in figuring out what works and what doesn't and building relationships, all that stuff. And I had really, it had taken me probably about a year to get, like really, really settled. So at that point, I was like, now I want to stay, like now that I've gotten settled. And I had grown to really love the south, too, and there were still lots of volunteers in that area. And so it was great. I thought it was a great opportunity to be able to stay in that area and help support like new volunteers and like the volunteers who are already there. So I guess that's kind of why I wanted to stay. I was really happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were based in the southwest as part of your regional role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're working with all the volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.321656760625883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really loved living in the D.R. I mean, definitely lots of challenges, you know, kind of comes with the territory. But I felt that like I hadn't gotten really settled in the country, you know, like settled into the work and felt like, you know, there's kind of like a learning curve in figuring out what works and what doesn't and building relationships, all that stuff. And I had really, it had taken me probably about a year to get, like really, really settled. So at that point, I was like, now I want to stay, like now that I've gotten settled. And I had grown to really love the south, too, and there were still lots of volunteers in that area. And so it was great. I thought it was a great opportunity to be able to stay in that area and help support like new volunteers and like the volunteers who are already there. So I guess that's kind of why I wanted to stay. I was really happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were based in the southwest as part of your regional role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're working with all the volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. Not like sector specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little more about how you interacted with them. What was your principal role or what did you see as your?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.690729734028759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're working with all the volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. Not like sector specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little more about how you interacted with them. What was your principal role or what did you see as your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some of it was like, I thought a big part of what I was doing was kind of like helping people and kind of learn to navigate the area like new volunteers. You know, like this is what's around and these are like things that other volunteers have found helpful. These are like some programs that other volunteers nearby like already have up and running. So like, maybe there are ways you can collaborate with people in your community or like bring trainers over to, like, help train the people in new volunteer's communities. And then I would do some stuff here and there, like helping with like site development stuff for like communities that wanted, like, you know, heard about Peace Corps or the Peace Corps had visited and were interested in getting a volunteer to go and talk with the community about, like what their priorities were like, what they wanted and like why they're interested in having a volunteer and visit with host families and things like that.\n\nAt one point, I ended up going on like a really long trip to visit like a bunch of different host families when they were short on people to do that. Like all around, like a big loop around the country practically, like all kinds of places that were really remote. And so that was that was really fun because I got to go to a lot of places I hadn't been to before and it was. I liked that like being able to help kind of like lay the groundwork, I guess, for volunteers to be able to move in there and get started and like work with the community. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't ask you, but had there been volunteers in your community before you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5564564617639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some of it was like, I thought a big part of what I was doing was kind of like helping people and kind of learn to navigate the area like new volunteers. You know, like this is what's around and these are like things that other volunteers have found helpful. These are like some programs that other volunteers nearby like already have up and running. So like, maybe there are ways you can collaborate with people in your community or like bring trainers over to, like, help train the people in new volunteer's communities. And then I would do some stuff here and there, like helping with like site development stuff for like communities that wanted, like, you know, heard about Peace Corps or the Peace Corps had visited and were interested in getting a volunteer to go and talk with the community about, like what their priorities were like, what they wanted and like why they're interested in having a volunteer and visit with host families and things like that.\n\nAt one point, I ended up going on like a really long trip to visit like a bunch of different host families when they were short on people to do that. Like all around, like a big loop around the country practically, like all kinds of places that were really remote. And so that was that was really fun because I got to go to a lot of places I hadn't been to before and it was. I liked that like being able to help kind of like lay the groundwork, I guess, for volunteers to be able to move in there and get started and like work with the community. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't ask you, but had there been volunteers in your community before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was the first one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had somehow gotten in touch with the environmental APCD at the time. And through that, they kind of worked out that they would like to have a volunteer. And so, yeah, so I ended up being the first one sent there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that Alberto Rodriguez?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.0627294019598885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was the first one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had somehow gotten in touch with the environmental APCD at the time. And through that, they kind of worked out that they would like to have a volunteer. And so, yeah, so I ended up being the first one sent there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that Alberto Rodriguez?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's look back at your service now. What do you think were your main accomplishments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.493250354722159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think definitely like letting the community lead the way is like super important and like, you know, just coming in as like people from another country, you know, trying to like working in a developing country. I think that's definitely something we have to be sensitive to. You know, like, this is not our country and it should be the people that live there, you know, like leading the way on projects and things like that. So I think that's important to know and like always keep relearning all the ways in which that is like kind of played out. And really having the community and the country as a whole, like lead the way and like the direction that the work is taking and like the projects that are prioritized and things like that can be really complicated to put that in practice. Because obviously there are lots of different priorities and it depends who you talk to. But yeah, I think that's definitely like a really big lesson.\n\nI think also like I think Peace Corps does a pretty good job of this as a whole, but like putting a lot of value on like relationships, you know, things that may not have like a specific, you know, data output, for example. But yeah, I think that is a really, like Peace Corps is in a really unique position to be able to like to have people build relationships across cultures and international boundaries and like all kinds of different things. And so I think like keeping a big focus on that is definitely like a lesson learned. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You filled out the volunteer report form as part of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was quarterly, annually, biannually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh. I remember doing it multiple times. I want to say it was quarterly. I should know off hand, but I think it was quarterly if you ended up doing it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find it useful?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.881389283024621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was quarterly, annually, biannually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh. I remember doing it multiple times. I want to say it was quarterly. I should know off hand, but I think it was quarterly if you ended up doing it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find it useful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really liked that it was detailed and I think I'm not remembering a lot of the specifics, but I think it did even kind of take into account some stuff that isn't kind of traditionally counted as like data. You know, there's more kinds of like community relationship focus values. And I remember like liking that it was really, really in depth. You know, I was like counting how many students have participated in groups and like things like that. I thought that was really good. It's been a while since I filled it out. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to keep a copy for your own records?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.312654758916246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh. I remember doing it multiple times. I want to say it was quarterly. I should know off hand, but I think it was quarterly if you ended up doing it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find it useful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really liked that it was detailed and I think I'm not remembering a lot of the specifics, but I think it did even kind of take into account some stuff that isn't kind of traditionally counted as like data. You know, there's more kinds of like community relationship focus values. And I remember like liking that it was really, really in depth. You know, I was like counting how many students have participated in groups and like things like that. I thought that was really good. It's been a while since I filled it out. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to keep a copy for your own records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I remember filling it out and definitely sending in a copy. But I think the way that we filled it out at the time, I'm not sure if it's changed, like you downloaded like a blank copy and then filled it out. And so I could keep it and then I could use it to, you know, like build off of for like future things too. So I could see, you know, like, well, it's kind of like helped me also, you know, like take a look at how things had changed over time. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that I probably still have the copies on my computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's both quantitative and qualitative. A lot of it was trying to have volunteers express, you know, their own feelings about what was going on, not just the task orientation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.791838621018051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really liked that it was detailed and I think I'm not remembering a lot of the specifics, but I think it did even kind of take into account some stuff that isn't kind of traditionally counted as like data. You know, there's more kinds of like community relationship focus values. And I remember like liking that it was really, really in depth. You know, I was like counting how many students have participated in groups and like things like that. I thought that was really good. It's been a while since I filled it out. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to keep a copy for your own records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I remember filling it out and definitely sending in a copy. But I think the way that we filled it out at the time, I'm not sure if it's changed, like you downloaded like a blank copy and then filled it out. And so I could keep it and then I could use it to, you know, like build off of for like future things too. So I could see, you know, like, well, it's kind of like helped me also, you know, like take a look at how things had changed over time. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that I probably still have the copies on my computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's both quantitative and qualitative. A lot of it was trying to have volunteers express, you know, their own feelings about what was going on, not just the task orientation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was almost like a diary in many respects. It'd be interesting to go back and look at what you had written."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3242651344645004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I remember filling it out and definitely sending in a copy. But I think the way that we filled it out at the time, I'm not sure if it's changed, like you downloaded like a blank copy and then filled it out. And so I could keep it and then I could use it to, you know, like build off of for like future things too. So I could see, you know, like, well, it's kind of like helped me also, you know, like take a look at how things had changed over time. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that I probably still have the copies on my computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's both quantitative and qualitative. A lot of it was trying to have volunteers express, you know, their own feelings about what was going on, not just the task orientation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was almost like a diary in many respects. It'd be interesting to go back and look at what you had written."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, might be, yeah. I haven't looked back at that whole thing since. I remember, I mean, I looked at them often while I was a volunteer, but since I don't think I have. It would be really good to go back and look now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future? I know it's only been a couple of years and you're still trying to figure it out. But do you see the influence in your thinking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.915850149405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was almost like a diary in many respects. It'd be interesting to go back and look at what you had written."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, might be, yeah. I haven't looked back at that whole thing since. I remember, I mean, I looked at them often while I was a volunteer, but since I don't think I have. It would be really good to go back and look now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future? I know it's only been a couple of years and you're still trying to figure it out. But do you see the influence in your thinking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure. One way that I think is I'd always really liked writing before Peace Corps. And then I was in Peace Corps, I would like write emails that come to family and friends. And, you know, kind of like, I had some internet, you know, I was generally on the internet like at least once a week. So I wasn't, you know, like super super remote. But I would try to send kind of like batch emails to people so I could still like keep in touch with like friends and family back home and like former coworkers and professors and people like that. And so I kind of really loved that, like telling them the experience, and also like, you know, you see a lot as a volunteer in like the, you know, like social justice realm, like environmental stuff, like racial discrimination. And so I kind of like got hooked on the idea of like going into journalism and like writing about stories like that. Um, so yeah, Peace Corps definitely influenced that. And I did end up going to grad school for journalism and doing some like journalism internships and fellowships and things like that. I'm kind of looking now to get more back into the sort of like direct service world, but I hope that I can still tie in that like storytelling aspect in some form into my work in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of Peace Corps' three goals, have you thought of your service in terms of those goals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.8442050000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sounds pretty similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might enjoy it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've only been out three years now, three or four years. Have you maintained a connection back to the D.R. in this time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who do you stay in touch with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.38245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've only been out three years now, three or four years. Have you maintained a connection back to the D.R. in this time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who do you stay in touch with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been in touch with my host family and my site pretty regularly. I just recently got back in touch with my host family from my training, like our community-based training, too. So that was really great. Also like the project partner that I most worked with, Darbin, is like working in an NGO now. I stayed in touch with him a lot. A few other folks that I had met in my same community too. Yeah, a handful of people that I was closest with in my community, I still stay in touch with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since you've been here, I know you've joined the RPCV- W program and the mentor program. Are there other third goal activities that you've been involved with since you've returned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who do you stay in touch with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been in touch with my host family and my site pretty regularly. I just recently got back in touch with my host family from my training, like our community-based training, too. So that was really great. Also like the project partner that I most worked with, Darbin, is like working in an NGO now. I stayed in touch with him a lot. A few other folks that I had met in my same community too. Yeah, a handful of people that I was closest with in my community, I still stay in touch with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since you've been here, I know you've joined the RPCV- W program and the mentor program. Are there other third goal activities that you've been involved with since you've returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. None that I can think of offhand. I don't think. I'm really glad to have participated in those. I got kind of like bogged down in like grad school and job searching and things like that for a while. So it's been great to be able to reconnect in that way and definitely would like to do more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Few other questions here in terms of other things you want to talk about, like you noted on some of the questions that could be asked. Did you send photos or videos home or post them online?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been in touch with my host family and my site pretty regularly. I just recently got back in touch with my host family from my training, like our community-based training, too. So that was really great. Also like the project partner that I most worked with, Darbin, is like working in an NGO now. I stayed in touch with him a lot. A few other folks that I had met in my same community too. Yeah, a handful of people that I was closest with in my community, I still stay in touch with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since you've been here, I know you've joined the RPCV- W program and the mentor program. Are there other third goal activities that you've been involved with since you've returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. None that I can think of offhand. I don't think. I'm really glad to have participated in those. I got kind of like bogged down in like grad school and job searching and things like that for a while. So it's been great to be able to reconnect in that way and definitely would like to do more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Few other questions here in terms of other things you want to talk about, like you noted on some of the questions that could be asked. Did you send photos or videos home or post them online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also had like a little blog while I was a volunteer. It was like pretty similar to the emails I would send. And so that, yeah, I tried to do that like pretty regularly once a month. And I got paired up, I think, pretty early in my service, with a school in Pennsylvania, like near to where I had gone to college, where we would kind of do like some pen pal exchanges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What local school was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. None that I can think of offhand. I don't think. I'm really glad to have participated in those. I got kind of like bogged down in like grad school and job searching and things like that for a while. So it's been great to be able to reconnect in that way and definitely would like to do more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Few other questions here in terms of other things you want to talk about, like you noted on some of the questions that could be asked. Did you send photos or videos home or post them online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also had like a little blog while I was a volunteer. It was like pretty similar to the emails I would send. And so that, yeah, I tried to do that like pretty regularly once a month. And I got paired up, I think, pretty early in my service, with a school in Pennsylvania, like near to where I had gone to college, where we would kind of do like some pen pal exchanges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What local school was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. It was a middle school. I can't remember exactly which grades, but I think it was like seventh and eighth grades off the top of my head. Yeah. And so we would talk like here and there, set up like Skype dates. And like the students, I would kind of be like the interpreter and the students could ask each other questions, like the Dominican students in the youth group could ask questions of like the students in the classroom, like in the 7th grade classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this through the Paul Coverdell World Wise Schools program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also had like a little blog while I was a volunteer. It was like pretty similar to the emails I would send. And so that, yeah, I tried to do that like pretty regularly once a month. And I got paired up, I think, pretty early in my service, with a school in Pennsylvania, like near to where I had gone to college, where we would kind of do like some pen pal exchanges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What local school was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. It was a middle school. I can't remember exactly which grades, but I think it was like seventh and eighth grades off the top of my head. Yeah. And so we would talk like here and there, set up like Skype dates. And like the students, I would kind of be like the interpreter and the students could ask each other questions, like the Dominican students in the youth group could ask questions of like the students in the classroom, like in the 7th grade classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this through the Paul Coverdell World Wise Schools program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, it was through that. Yeah. And so that I thought was really, really rewarding to be able to connect with students like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that continue after you left or were you the critical link?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were. It was a middle school. I can't remember exactly which grades, but I think it was like seventh and eighth grades off the top of my head. Yeah. And so we would talk like here and there, set up like Skype dates. And like the students, I would kind of be like the interpreter and the students could ask each other questions, like the Dominican students in the youth group could ask questions of like the students in the classroom, like in the 7th grade classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this through the Paul Coverdell World Wise Schools program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, it was through that. Yeah. And so that I thought was really, really rewarding to be able to connect with students like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that continue after you left or were you the critical link?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did not continue. It would, I think it would have been really cool if we could have found a way like to keep that going. But as far as I know, I don't think that they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other summary statements you'd like to make?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, it was through that. Yeah. And so that I thought was really, really rewarding to be able to connect with students like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that continue after you left or were you the critical link?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did not continue. It would, I think it would have been really cool if we could have found a way like to keep that going. But as far as I know, I don't think that they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other summary statements you'd like to make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm actually now that I'm moving back down to the D.R. in like a month or so for a job for a year. I've been talking with like the Friends of the D.R. about helping them do some work. That's like supporting the Brigada Verde programs that are still being run as kind of like a secondary option for volunteers to do if they want. So I'm really excited. I mean, I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to be doing yet or like what might work or not, but I'm really excited about that, to kind of come back to be able to still help support that work in some way. So, yeah, like looking towards the future, that's something I'm really excited about that's connected to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we pretty much covered the framework that we're trying to elicit from you. So unless you have any other things, we've talked about other things that you've already noted here, so I think we've covered what you particularly wanted to bring up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00142:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did not continue. It would, I think it would have been really cool if we could have found a way like to keep that going. But as far as I know, I don't think that they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other summary statements you'd like to make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm actually now that I'm moving back down to the D.R. in like a month or so for a job for a year. I've been talking with like the Friends of the D.R. about helping them do some work. That's like supporting the Brigada Verde programs that are still being run as kind of like a secondary option for volunteers to do if they want. So I'm really excited. I mean, I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to be doing yet or like what might work or not, but I'm really excited about that, to kind of come back to be able to still help support that work in some way. So, yeah, like looking towards the future, that's something I'm really excited about that's connected to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we pretty much covered the framework that we're trying to elicit from you. So unless you have any other things, we've talked about other things that you've already noted here, so I think we've covered what you particularly wanted to bring up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cool. I'm definitely glad I did it. Hopefully, Peace Corps continues for a while to come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.704623380362452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, enough to send an airplane down there or a helicopter. I think at first it was a rescue plane, and then a helicopter got down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, from everything I've heard, he just floated around, waiting. [Laughter] He knew he was fine and eventually he'd be found. And he likes the ocean anyway. He's gone into the nautical and the diving stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One thing to say about Scott Carpenter, one of the first times I had gone down to Cape Canaveral [Florida], which was a chore, because in those days the government was not too wild about you flying on commercial, so we had a NASA airplane we flew from Langley to Cape Canaveral, and it took forever. It was an old, dilapidated, two-engine prop-driven—I think it was a Martin 404 or something, made barely 200 miles an hour.\\n\\n Actually, I got down to the Cape and went into a meeting where we were briefing the mission team, and I met Scott there for the first time. What impressed me about Scott was he remembered my name after the meeting. So he was very gracious. I did not give a briefing, but I had something to contribute to the meeting, and after the meeting was over, he called me by name and asked me to explain something to him. So I was pretty impressed that he—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in my association at NACA on the airplane end, I had several friends and associates who were test pilots, and they always very much impressed me in terms of their grasp. I think just about all of them were full engineers, and they were flight test engineers, and they knew as much about aerodynamics and stability and control that I did. They probably knew a lot more than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it's important to know some of those details when you are up there flying a test aircraft, and if something starts to go wrong, having that background would give you some knowledge to be able to decide what to do next. Definitely a unique group of people. You mentioned Scott Carpenter. Did you work at all with any of the other astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.256419889180936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a trip to the beach. She probably got saltwater in it or something. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how funny. Well, it was a new program at the time, and there were several points where, I've read in a couple of books, you needed a part and you ran down to the hardware store. It was such a small group and they were trying to get things done in such a short time, that you did what you had to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Exactly. The Space Task Group was just a few hundred people. I remember if you needed to take a trip anywhere, in my middle desk drawer I had a book of government travel vouchers, and all I did was just rip one of these—it looked like an IBM punch card, kind of a stiff cardboard thing, pull it off. Go down to the airport, they would fill it out, and I would sign it, and they would give me an airplane ticket in return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then when I'd get back, I would take my receipt of that and whatever else—travel was much more simple. We didn't have all these travel offices and many levels of signature and everything. It was just like that was my job and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You needed to do it, and they trusted you to do it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.70297193900463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, it wasn't. In fact, I'm surprised that nobody got wise to this, but in those days you could never afford to go on a trip, even to Los Angeles. We used to go to Boston a lot on the Apollo Program and stay in a room where it wouldn't cost a lot more than sixteen dollars a day. So the trick was to take a buddy with you, and you would share a room. So you'd split the cost of a room, and then you could—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could eat. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could eat. Yes. Otherwise, you were having to subsidize the government on the room and board kind of participation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are a little different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In fact, I remember on a couple of occasions—we had, I remember, a trip to Boston, which was extremely expensive, where we had three guys staying in a room, and we had a roll-in cot, and we split the room three ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, it worked out, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.336635487782914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could eat. Yes. Otherwise, you were having to subsidize the government on the room and board kind of participation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are a little different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In fact, I remember on a couple of occasions—we had, I remember, a trip to Boston, which was extremely expensive, where we had three guys staying in a room, and we had a roll-in cot, and we split the room three ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, it worked out, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure if somebody snored pretty loudly, too, that might be— [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.3740394308699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. In fact, I remember on a couple of occasions—we had, I remember, a trip to Boston, which was extremely expensive, where we had three guys staying in a room, and we had a roll-in cot, and we split the room three ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, it worked out, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure if somebody snored pretty loudly, too, that might be— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was always a problem. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from the Mercury Program, you then moved into Gemini."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 44.86004381207766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure if somebody snored pretty loudly, too, that might be— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was always a problem. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from the Mercury Program, you then moved into Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Based on all these missions and the various things you were learning along the way, what sorts of lessons were you able to transfer into the Gemini Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 36.5111597911974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was always a problem. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from the Mercury Program, you then moved into Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Based on all these missions and the various things you were learning along the way, what sorts of lessons were you able to transfer into the Gemini Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of what we did on Gemini was basically a takeoff of what we were doing on Mercury. So there was not a lot of—I won't say there was a lot of innovation, or not a lot of innovation, but it was really just sort of a transfer of what seemed to work, what seemed to do right. And for me it was an easy transition, because I was working on, really, almost a liaison function with the Air Force on the Atlas Program and then doing the liaison with the Titan II on the Gemini Program. So a lot of the same people I worked with in Los Angeles.\\n\\n Some of the contractors were different, of course. I was working with General Dynamics out of San Diego [California] on the Atlas and then started working with the Martin Company out of—actually, it was out of Baltimore [Maryland] at the start, because they were transitioning to their Denver [Colorado] operations at the time. But a lot of the Titans were built in Baltimore at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were liaison with the Titan. Was this basically a continuation of your same responsibilities, or did those change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.47316599975851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long move. Then, as I understand it, Lyndon Johnson was the chairman of the Space and Science Committee, and he had final veto. And, of course, Berkeley, California, was not in Texas, so it lost out. So then we find out that, hey, we're moving to Houston, Texas, now, or outside Houston, Texas.\\n\\n Then shortly after they made that announcement, there was a weather phenomena called a hurricane, and Hurricane Carla hit that area. So here we had hurricane-tracking maps on our walls. Of course, we had all these trajectory maps and everything, so we were plotting that thing as we got reports on the hurricane moving in there.\\n\\n It was interesting, a lot of people were not that wild about moving to Houston. I didn't have a problem with it. I thought wherever the space center would be, that's where I would move to. But there were people there that had some attachment to Virginia or that area, or the East Coast. There weren't a lot of my colleagues who had families and were raised on the East Coast and they were not moving halfway across the country to Texas or to California. So we lost quite a few people when we moved, and I was surprised how many did not join us. There were a number of people that did. I think the majority did move [with] the Space Task Group, but there was quite a few that did not move. A number of the people I worked with did not move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a tough decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a tough decision. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did move down to Houston, do you remember—of course, when the [Manned] Space[craft] Center first moved down, offices were scattered all over town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you primarily worked out of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.39729614351244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess one good thing about all the travel time is that at least Houston doesn't have weather like today. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'll tell you, there have been some gully-washers there that I remember driving to get to the Computer Center, and the water was gushing out of manhole covers with such force they were lifting the iron manhole covers off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay, they have their different brand of weather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. The weather was a little more cooperative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay in that situation, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.552551270569374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'll tell you, there have been some gully-washers there that I remember driving to get to the Computer Center, and the water was gushing out of manhole covers with such force they were lifting the iron manhole covers off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay, they have their different brand of weather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. The weather was a little more cooperative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay in that situation, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the temporary buildings? I think we moved there in early '62, and I forgot when our building was ready at the Space Center. I believe it was not till '64 or '65 that we moved. We were one of the last groups to move down there, and I don't know why. It was around that time frame that they moved us from there to the new Space Center, the Manned Spacecraft Center, the MSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the new Space Center came up to speed, really, early in the Gemini Program, or at least got the Mission Control Center up to speed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 42.44702231923627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think during those times, probably I became much more of a negotiator than I had been in the past. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Developed your diplomatic skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I probably could have gone into the diplomatic corps following that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the Gemini Program, several of the missions, while successful to a certain extent, they experienced various problems, be it with how do you work in space, how do you keep yourself in place to work, and then some problems even with the Agena on one not having separated—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the masking tape on the shroud. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After each mission, as these problems would arise, how would you look at these? How would you evaluate for the future missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.690980000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. I don't think anybody does, really, unless—like I said, I was perfectly happy testing airplanes in wind tunnels. I'm glad I decided to go into a different direction, a different way, but I think the career I had at NASA was certainly very fulfilling. I had great assignments on the Skylab Program. I had the opportunity to appear on the NBC Today show, interviewed right after the first launch and the Skylab series, and interviewed on that show. I got many fan letters from that later. Surprising."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School kids, a few, yes, and adults.\\n\\n The Skylab Program was a real challenge, and, again, we had great teams of people and got involved in the early days of the Shuttle Program and the design of the Shuttle and worked on some of the early concepts on the Shuttle Program that's been really quite a successful program.\\n\\n The last assignment I had with NASA, JSC [Johnson Space Center] was trying to get the Air Force to have their own Shuttle Operations and Planning Complex, which was going to be located right outside of Colorado Springs. That, unfortunately, fell through for a number of reasons, but mainly because of the Challenger, that the Air Force decided not to pursue that. But that was a challenging assignment in itself.\\n\\n But, no, I would have never predicted. Although when I was in eighth grade—I went to grade school at the time when you went to eighth grade then you went to high school, so you graduated from eighth grade, you graduated from grammar school, and in my class prophecy, my prophecy was I would be sending rockets to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, talk about predictions, grade-school predictions that were right. That was in 1949."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. What sparked your interest back then in—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.2122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School kids, a few, yes, and adults.\\n\\n The Skylab Program was a real challenge, and, again, we had great teams of people and got involved in the early days of the Shuttle Program and the design of the Shuttle and worked on some of the early concepts on the Shuttle Program that's been really quite a successful program.\\n\\n The last assignment I had with NASA, JSC [Johnson Space Center] was trying to get the Air Force to have their own Shuttle Operations and Planning Complex, which was going to be located right outside of Colorado Springs. That, unfortunately, fell through for a number of reasons, but mainly because of the Challenger, that the Air Force decided not to pursue that. But that was a challenging assignment in itself.\\n\\n But, no, I would have never predicted. Although when I was in eighth grade—I went to grade school at the time when you went to eighth grade then you went to high school, so you graduated from eighth grade, you graduated from grammar school, and in my class prophecy, my prophecy was I would be sending rockets to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, talk about predictions, grade-school predictions that were right. That was in 1949."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. What sparked your interest back then in—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know who wrote the prediction, but I was very much just taken up by airplanes, not rockets necessarily, because there weren't really, other than the German V-1 rockets, there weren't really many rockets. But rockets had my interest, and I did a lot of reading on that. I was very active in model airplane building and flying and competing, and I was very engrossed in that. I read a lot of science fiction and so forth, so I can see where probably someone would have predicted that for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty neat."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00101:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And now he's an engineer, a chip designer for Intel Corporation, doing very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm hoping a lot of that was an inspiration to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it was. It sounds like it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back again over your whole career, even the areas we haven't talked of, what do you think was both your most challenging time and maybe your most significant contribution?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.533668239485136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think in those days, Peace Corps was fairly well known, talked about, the volunteer service aspect, and it sounded like something that would be real interesting to be a part of. Nobody really talked to me about it specifically. I researched it on my own and found out a lot of interesting facts that made me more intrigued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing before that? Were you a student or had you been working for a while or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just graduated, finished a mathematics degree, and it was always my intention to take two years, coincidentally, between undergraduate and graduate school. I had vague ideas about graduate school, and what I did know for sure is I didn't want to go straight through school, straight into a working type environment. I wanted to see the world. And really the competition for Peace Corps was being a yachty. That's a term popular in those days. I don't even know if they still use it. But you crewed on people's boats and traveled around the world. And started thinking about that and the lack of structure it offered and then thought about a Peace Corps and there was a real job there to do and it eventually won out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to school, here in California or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My undergraduate was at the University of the Pacific. It's located in Stockton, California, in the Big Valley, if you remember that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're from this area, then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.926298043872373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just graduated, finished a mathematics degree, and it was always my intention to take two years, coincidentally, between undergraduate and graduate school. I had vague ideas about graduate school, and what I did know for sure is I didn't want to go straight through school, straight into a working type environment. I wanted to see the world. And really the competition for Peace Corps was being a yachty. That's a term popular in those days. I don't even know if they still use it. But you crewed on people's boats and traveled around the world. And started thinking about that and the lack of structure it offered and then thought about a Peace Corps and there was a real job there to do and it eventually won out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to school, here in California or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My undergraduate was at the University of the Pacific. It's located in Stockton, California, in the Big Valley, if you remember that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're from this area, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in San Francisco. My family's all from San Francisco pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now when you told your family and friends that you were going to join the Peace Corps, what did they think about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.362553382080415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My undergraduate was at the University of the Pacific. It's located in Stockton, California, in the Big Valley, if you remember that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're from this area, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in San Francisco. My family's all from San Francisco pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now when you told your family and friends that you were going to join the Peace Corps, what did they think about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very encouraging, I would say, generally. My parents were pretty much encouraging in general. As you will remember, this was quite a tumultuous time. The war in Vietnam had ended. And there was a lot of changes in society going on. And so there was a great sense of exploration in general. So my parents were not ones to restrict that. They wanted me to try new things. Seeing the world certainly was not something they were against in any way. Friends thought it was, I guess, cool. Or maybe they said groovy in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you didn't get any kind of negative pushback from anybody?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.958392646756018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in San Francisco. My family's all from San Francisco pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now when you told your family and friends that you were going to join the Peace Corps, what did they think about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very encouraging, I would say, generally. My parents were pretty much encouraging in general. As you will remember, this was quite a tumultuous time. The war in Vietnam had ended. And there was a lot of changes in society going on. And so there was a great sense of exploration in general. So my parents were not ones to restrict that. They wanted me to try new things. Seeing the world certainly was not something they were against in any way. Friends thought it was, I guess, cool. Or maybe they said groovy in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you didn't get any kind of negative pushback from anybody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. None at all. In fact, my, well, I did have a girlfriend at the time that wasn't so thrilled about my heading away. That was my only negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Understandably. And did you choose to go to Fiji or did you have, were you open to going anywhere? Or what was your first choice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.953769607506686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very encouraging, I would say, generally. My parents were pretty much encouraging in general. As you will remember, this was quite a tumultuous time. The war in Vietnam had ended. And there was a lot of changes in society going on. And so there was a great sense of exploration in general. So my parents were not ones to restrict that. They wanted me to try new things. Seeing the world certainly was not something they were against in any way. Friends thought it was, I guess, cool. Or maybe they said groovy in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you didn't get any kind of negative pushback from anybody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. None at all. In fact, my, well, I did have a girlfriend at the time that wasn't so thrilled about my heading away. That was my only negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Understandably. And did you choose to go to Fiji or did you have, were you open to going anywhere? Or what was your first choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was given, it might have been similar for you. There was three lines on the form and the first line, for pretty much no reason, I put Malta. And I realized that to be more specific, you had less chance of getting that. The second choice was Micronesia, because I thought, well, being in an American trust area, maybe I'd want to stay there. Maybe there'd be opportunities for Americans there. And then the third was just, gee, any South Pacific. And they came back, through great fortune and no real deserving of my own, with this offer of Fiji. And I really didn't debate on it long at all. I thought it sounded better than my choices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did have a predetermination to kind of go to the South Pacific. That was something you thought about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.059744008340761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. None at all. In fact, my, well, I did have a girlfriend at the time that wasn't so thrilled about my heading away. That was my only negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Understandably. And did you choose to go to Fiji or did you have, were you open to going anywhere? Or what was your first choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was given, it might have been similar for you. There was three lines on the form and the first line, for pretty much no reason, I put Malta. And I realized that to be more specific, you had less chance of getting that. The second choice was Micronesia, because I thought, well, being in an American trust area, maybe I'd want to stay there. Maybe there'd be opportunities for Americans there. And then the third was just, gee, any South Pacific. And they came back, through great fortune and no real deserving of my own, with this offer of Fiji. And I really didn't debate on it long at all. I thought it sounded better than my choices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did have a predetermination to kind of go to the South Pacific. That was something you thought about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've always been, well, again, imagine the yachty thing. You know, I grew up in a fishing family and being out on the ocean has always been very, very desirable. So, you know, being yachty or being in the Peace Corps, you're next to the water. I'm still very much that way, oriented towards the ocean, water, fishing, and that type of lifestyle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So after applying, then you got this invitation to go to Fiji. And did you know much about Fiji before that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.955271120378622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was given, it might have been similar for you. There was three lines on the form and the first line, for pretty much no reason, I put Malta. And I realized that to be more specific, you had less chance of getting that. The second choice was Micronesia, because I thought, well, being in an American trust area, maybe I'd want to stay there. Maybe there'd be opportunities for Americans there. And then the third was just, gee, any South Pacific. And they came back, through great fortune and no real deserving of my own, with this offer of Fiji. And I really didn't debate on it long at all. I thought it sounded better than my choices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did have a predetermination to kind of go to the South Pacific. That was something you thought about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've always been, well, again, imagine the yachty thing. You know, I grew up in a fishing family and being out on the ocean has always been very, very desirable. So, you know, being yachty or being in the Peace Corps, you're next to the water. I'm still very much that way, oriented towards the ocean, water, fishing, and that type of lifestyle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So after applying, then you got this invitation to go to Fiji. And did you know much about Fiji before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they had things like the Encyclopedia Britannica in those days. You didn't just pull up your iPhone and Google, tell me all about Fiji. So the information was fairly hard to come by. So really when I first set foot on Fiji, it was all new and all learning from the beginning, you know, vague concepts, and of course Peace Corps gave you some information about the country and which shots to get. I remember, what did we have, what they call WHO cards that had your vaccinations on there. And those were the types of things that they talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any kind of orientation before you left the States, to kind of brief you about the country or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.616967911531804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've always been, well, again, imagine the yachty thing. You know, I grew up in a fishing family and being out on the ocean has always been very, very desirable. So, you know, being yachty or being in the Peace Corps, you're next to the water. I'm still very much that way, oriented towards the ocean, water, fishing, and that type of lifestyle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So after applying, then you got this invitation to go to Fiji. And did you know much about Fiji before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they had things like the Encyclopedia Britannica in those days. You didn't just pull up your iPhone and Google, tell me all about Fiji. So the information was fairly hard to come by. So really when I first set foot on Fiji, it was all new and all learning from the beginning, you know, vague concepts, and of course Peace Corps gave you some information about the country and which shots to get. I remember, what did we have, what they call WHO cards that had your vaccinations on there. And those were the types of things that they talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any kind of orientation before you left the States, to kind of brief you about the country or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a few days in San Francisco. So we did, for me no travel. I was already here. But the rest of the volunteers from my group, Fiji 24, came from across the country. And we spent several days in San Francisco in some hotel learning about what the job might entail and how really it wasn't a generalist. You know, they referred to the previous Peace Corps groups as more generalist kind of things. And they said, really the goal of your group is to replace mid-level skills and supplement the need for hiring of those skills for the government that we were serving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the whole group education, all teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.352186568368671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they had things like the Encyclopedia Britannica in those days. You didn't just pull up your iPhone and Google, tell me all about Fiji. So the information was fairly hard to come by. So really when I first set foot on Fiji, it was all new and all learning from the beginning, you know, vague concepts, and of course Peace Corps gave you some information about the country and which shots to get. I remember, what did we have, what they call WHO cards that had your vaccinations on there. And those were the types of things that they talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any kind of orientation before you left the States, to kind of brief you about the country or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a few days in San Francisco. So we did, for me no travel. I was already here. But the rest of the volunteers from my group, Fiji 24, came from across the country. And we spent several days in San Francisco in some hotel learning about what the job might entail and how really it wasn't a generalist. You know, they referred to the previous Peace Corps groups as more generalist kind of things. And they said, really the goal of your group is to replace mid-level skills and supplement the need for hiring of those skills for the government that we were serving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the whole group education, all teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every one of my group was education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Education. Hmm. So then you have this orientation and you get on the plane and take off to this new place. Do you remember your initial reaction when you landed in Fiji? How you felt about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.1690961870763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a few days in San Francisco. So we did, for me no travel. I was already here. But the rest of the volunteers from my group, Fiji 24, came from across the country. And we spent several days in San Francisco in some hotel learning about what the job might entail and how really it wasn't a generalist. You know, they referred to the previous Peace Corps groups as more generalist kind of things. And they said, really the goal of your group is to replace mid-level skills and supplement the need for hiring of those skills for the government that we were serving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the whole group education, all teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every one of my group was education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Education. Hmm. So then you have this orientation and you get on the plane and take off to this new place. Do you remember your initial reaction when you landed in Fiji? How you felt about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything impress you in particular?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.9656624300847785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every one of my group was education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Education. Hmm. So then you have this orientation and you get on the plane and take off to this new place. Do you remember your initial reaction when you landed in Fiji? How you felt about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything impress you in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I remember most is that I was feeling great, because a lot of the folks stayed up all night on the airplane, and I slept all the flight and woke up feeling really refreshed and seeing this beautiful kind of environment. It was just really nothing but positive from the beginning there where it was. And, you know, it's just part of my nature is to be a traveler anyway. I mean, my career later in life was doing international business and I went to an international business school. So I already had an orientation towards being multicultural. And that was just, oh great, here's the next chapter. And that was more of the way I was thinking of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it must have been pretty exciting for you when you landed there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.739624922316421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything impress you in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I remember most is that I was feeling great, because a lot of the folks stayed up all night on the airplane, and I slept all the flight and woke up feeling really refreshed and seeing this beautiful kind of environment. It was just really nothing but positive from the beginning there where it was. And, you know, it's just part of my nature is to be a traveler anyway. I mean, my career later in life was doing international business and I went to an international business school. So I already had an orientation towards being multicultural. And that was just, oh great, here's the next chapter. And that was more of the way I was thinking of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it must have been pretty exciting for you when you landed there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it really was. Because the intake, if you will, they, uh. I may be leaving out some parts, but basically they whisked us as fast as you could whisk something in Fiji off to the inside of Viti Levu and we went to the welcoming ceremony. So next thing I know, I'm sitting inside of a bure and the whole group is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a Fijian village? You went straight to a village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.616769440763266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So this isn't, you know, just a village. This is a full-on in the interior type of village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was quite remarkable. Nothing had ever been. And then something you probably experienced, they say, oh, you're going to be the chief. And I go, what the heck is that? They said, it'll mean you'll have the first imbelo. And I didn't know what an imbelo was. And next thing I knew, there was this milky substance sitting out in front of me and everyone staring rather intently at me. And thankfully the Fijian gentleman who was part of the Peace Corps, who was sitting next to me, leaned over and quietly said, drink it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't tell you anything about that in orientation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.796410489736962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So this isn't, you know, just a village. This is a full-on in the interior type of village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was quite remarkable. Nothing had ever been. And then something you probably experienced, they say, oh, you're going to be the chief. And I go, what the heck is that? They said, it'll mean you'll have the first imbelo. And I didn't know what an imbelo was. And next thing I knew, there was this milky substance sitting out in front of me and everyone staring rather intently at me. And thankfully the Fijian gentleman who was part of the Peace Corps, who was sitting next to me, leaned over and quietly said, drink it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't tell you anything about that in orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all real time learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Yeah. So how long a drive outside of Nadi was it, do you remember, from the airport to that village? You said it was right in the interior."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.107122766374403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was quite remarkable. Nothing had ever been. And then something you probably experienced, they say, oh, you're going to be the chief. And I go, what the heck is that? They said, it'll mean you'll have the first imbelo. And I didn't know what an imbelo was. And next thing I knew, there was this milky substance sitting out in front of me and everyone staring rather intently at me. And thankfully the Fijian gentleman who was part of the Peace Corps, who was sitting next to me, leaned over and quietly said, drink it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't tell you anything about that in orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all real time learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Yeah. So how long a drive outside of Nadi was it, do you remember, from the airport to that village? You said it was right in the interior."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I certainly couldn't remember what road we took. I know that the roads were dirt. There was no such thing as a paved road. So when I say whisked us, it was compared to walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple of hours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.452358629304891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all real time learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Yeah. So how long a drive outside of Nadi was it, do you remember, from the airport to that village? You said it was right in the interior."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I certainly couldn't remember what road we took. I know that the roads were dirt. There was no such thing as a paved road. So when I say whisked us, it was compared to walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple of hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fast. It had to be, I would guess 3 or 4 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then after that, how long did you spend in training, do you remember, before you started on your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.613731810338768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I certainly couldn't remember what road we took. I know that the roads were dirt. There was no such thing as a paved road. So when I say whisked us, it was compared to walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple of hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fast. It had to be, I would guess 3 or 4 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then after that, how long did you spend in training, do you remember, before you started on your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were several weeks where we were in Labasa area. We were at a school and the school was in a break period. And there were students that were brought in, as I call it, the equivalent of summer school. And we were their teachers, so we were basically getting training on the job. So the training really consisted of some cultural education, some practice teaching, and then language training. In my case, Hindi language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they expected you to teach at a Hindi school or a school that served mostly Indians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.681924233709742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fast. It had to be, I would guess 3 or 4 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then after that, how long did you spend in training, do you remember, before you started on your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were several weeks where we were in Labasa area. We were at a school and the school was in a break period. And there were students that were brought in, as I call it, the equivalent of summer school. And we were their teachers, so we were basically getting training on the job. So the training really consisted of some cultural education, some practice teaching, and then language training. In my case, Hindi language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they expected you to teach at a Hindi school or a school that served mostly Indians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose that was. I suppose that was the case. Right. Right. I ended up teaching at schools where, you know, English was the primary language. So bad for me for not learning really either Hindi well or Fijian, since it really was never required for my job, other than it would have been nice to have because you open up culture with language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And so what else was memorable about your training? I know you did a home stay with a family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.757693593010824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were several weeks where we were in Labasa area. We were at a school and the school was in a break period. And there were students that were brought in, as I call it, the equivalent of summer school. And we were their teachers, so we were basically getting training on the job. So the training really consisted of some cultural education, some practice teaching, and then language training. In my case, Hindi language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they expected you to teach at a Hindi school or a school that served mostly Indians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose that was. I suppose that was the case. Right. Right. I ended up teaching at schools where, you know, English was the primary language. So bad for me for not learning really either Hindi well or Fijian, since it really was never required for my job, other than it would have been nice to have because you open up culture with language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And so what else was memorable about your training? I know you did a home stay with a family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. Lovely family. And they had quite a few kids. And at the time, you know, I was dabbling with the idea of being a vegetarian and of course, an Indian family. The majority were vegetarian. So I was excited about that. And what I do specifically remember was that I told the lady of the house that I'd quite happily be a vegetarian for them. And she said, oh no, you're going to eat bones. And apparently what they wanted was for me to demonstrate that you could actually eat lamb and chicken and survive the experience in front of their children. I think they thought their children would be better off to have meat in their diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they didn't eat meat, but they wanted you to eat meat as an example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.28110320124793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. Lovely family. And they had quite a few kids. And at the time, you know, I was dabbling with the idea of being a vegetarian and of course, an Indian family. The majority were vegetarian. So I was excited about that. And what I do specifically remember was that I told the lady of the house that I'd quite happily be a vegetarian for them. And she said, oh no, you're going to eat bones. And apparently what they wanted was for me to demonstrate that you could actually eat lamb and chicken and survive the experience in front of their children. I think they thought their children would be better off to have meat in their diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they didn't eat meat, but they wanted you to eat meat as an example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Demonstrate it for their children. Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't want to, because, as I said at the time, I was thinking about becoming a vegetarian and the vegetable dishes were just outstanding. I mean, they, you know, cook eight, ten, 12 dishes every meal. So it wasn't just you got vegetables and rice and that was your meal. There would be this great table setting at every meal, even including breakfast. There was quite a few things to choose from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And did you stay there by yourself or were there other volunteers staying with the same family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.756781334719923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Demonstrate it for their children. Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't want to, because, as I said at the time, I was thinking about becoming a vegetarian and the vegetable dishes were just outstanding. I mean, they, you know, cook eight, ten, 12 dishes every meal. So it wasn't just you got vegetables and rice and that was your meal. There would be this great table setting at every meal, even including breakfast. There was quite a few things to choose from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And did you stay there by yourself or were there other volunteers staying with the same family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was just me at that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so each volunteer was farmed out to a different family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.107137450271512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was just me at that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so each volunteer was farmed out to a different family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. In our case, that was true. Yeah. It was a very interesting area in Labasa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could certainly tell you about the story of three sisters and the mosquito net. The mosquito net was very quick. I remember it as I had literally layers of mosquito bites. I had probably, if I were to venture a guess, 200 on each ankle. And I didn't know how to deal with that at all. It was pretty disturbing. And then they came and said, oh, there's a mosquito net and this will help you. So sure enough, first night I got my trusty mosquito net out feeling protected. And they didn't tell me or nor was I smart enough to think of that you had to tuck it in. So I woke up to a den of mosquitoes that I had trapped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside the net."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.452374944746124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. In our case, that was true. Yeah. It was a very interesting area in Labasa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could certainly tell you about the story of three sisters and the mosquito net. The mosquito net was very quick. I remember it as I had literally layers of mosquito bites. I had probably, if I were to venture a guess, 200 on each ankle. And I didn't know how to deal with that at all. It was pretty disturbing. And then they came and said, oh, there's a mosquito net and this will help you. So sure enough, first night I got my trusty mosquito net out feeling protected. And they didn't tell me or nor was I smart enough to think of that you had to tuck it in. So I woke up to a den of mosquitoes that I had trapped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside the net."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who were inside, right. So night number two, I was good. I learned the trick of the mosquito net. Tuck it in. And that was a lifesaver for me. You know, like a lot of volunteers, I was a little ill for maybe a week and a half or so. I think that was probably the lower end. We had one guy, Ralph Sukurski. I recall he got down from 160 to 98 pounds and they were just about to ship him to Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, sounds serious."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.435030795982868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who were inside, right. So night number two, I was good. I learned the trick of the mosquito net. Tuck it in. And that was a lifesaver for me. You know, like a lot of volunteers, I was a little ill for maybe a week and a half or so. I think that was probably the lower end. We had one guy, Ralph Sukurski. I recall he got down from 160 to 98 pounds and they were just about to ship him to Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, sounds serious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, he was on his way out and he just, his health kicked in. But that was several, several months. So, you know, you have to adapt to all the bacterias and have to adapt to this very different kind of environment chemically than your body is used to. But yeah, I always have to tell the big adventure, which was Three Sisters Mountain, because there is a mountain in the Labasa area called Three Sisters. It's rather famous because it's supposedly haunted. And the family said to me, yeah, you don't want to go there. And that really didn't deter me. So my friend and I decided to take a hike up there, and we encountered a junction between one mountain and the next to the Three Sisters Mountain. And, well, the short version is he was quite able to cross. I was not. I got stung by bees once. I moved hundreds of yards down the hill, got stung again. He passed through twice without ever seeing or being harassed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is because of some superstition about the mountain?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm giving you the facts of what happened to me. Whether or not the superstition led the bees to me or not? You know, I really can't answer that. It literally changed my perception of the spirit world from one of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what was it that you did that he didn't, to make the bees come after you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.372256439980964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, he was on his way out and he just, his health kicked in. But that was several, several months. So, you know, you have to adapt to all the bacterias and have to adapt to this very different kind of environment chemically than your body is used to. But yeah, I always have to tell the big adventure, which was Three Sisters Mountain, because there is a mountain in the Labasa area called Three Sisters. It's rather famous because it's supposedly haunted. And the family said to me, yeah, you don't want to go there. And that really didn't deter me. So my friend and I decided to take a hike up there, and we encountered a junction between one mountain and the next to the Three Sisters Mountain. And, well, the short version is he was quite able to cross. I was not. I got stung by bees once. I moved hundreds of yards down the hill, got stung again. He passed through twice without ever seeing or being harassed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is because of some superstition about the mountain?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm giving you the facts of what happened to me. Whether or not the superstition led the bees to me or not? You know, I really can't answer that. It literally changed my perception of the spirit world from one of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what was it that you did that he didn't, to make the bees come after you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, on the way up the mountain, you know, there are rumors that there are bones from the cannibal days there way up the mountain. I said, Glen, are you planning to touch the bones? And he said, no. And I was thinking to myself, I didn't really verbalize it, I was thinking to myself, well, I probably would. And that's the only difference that I'm aware of between us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't actually find any bones or touching them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.484576735227657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got that close. There was no problem. But the aftermath of the whole thing, which was even more freaky, was after all those bee stings, the next day when I woke up there was, across from my chest to my leg, swelling. And you want to guess how many of them were swollen? Three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, there's lots of, I mean, you can Google the legend behind the Three Sisters Mountain and, you know, you'll see that I'm not making this all up. And there are stories of people who touch the bones or take the bones, and they, women grow beards. And people have had to repatriate the bones because their lives were ruined afterwards. That type of lore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lucky thing you didn't find any then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.538418594697397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, there's lots of, I mean, you can Google the legend behind the Three Sisters Mountain and, you know, you'll see that I'm not making this all up. And there are stories of people who touch the bones or take the bones, and they, women grow beards. And people have had to repatriate the bones because their lives were ruined afterwards. That type of lore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lucky thing you didn't find any then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah, I really did change my attitude, though, because now spiritually I don't doubt things at the same. You know, I always say there's a lot going on in the spiritual world. I call it a mystery. It actually connects directly to my current Episcopalian faith. Episcopalians love to say things are a mystery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So after training, you made it through successfully. Did you guys lose anybody in training? Did you have anybody go home or couldn't cut it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.709353994108218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, there's lots of, I mean, you can Google the legend behind the Three Sisters Mountain and, you know, you'll see that I'm not making this all up. And there are stories of people who touch the bones or take the bones, and they, women grow beards. And people have had to repatriate the bones because their lives were ruined afterwards. That type of lore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lucky thing you didn't find any then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah, I really did change my attitude, though, because now spiritually I don't doubt things at the same. You know, I always say there's a lot going on in the spiritual world. I call it a mystery. It actually connects directly to my current Episcopalian faith. Episcopalians love to say things are a mystery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So after training, you made it through successfully. Did you guys lose anybody in training? Did you have anybody go home or couldn't cut it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, none that I recall. I might be forgetting that aspect of it, but there wasn't, it wasn't a big washout. We did through the entire period lose some folks. But I don't recall anybody washing out actually during the training period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good. Then you guys went off and started your jobs. Where were you assigned to teach initially?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.565948882342465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah, I really did change my attitude, though, because now spiritually I don't doubt things at the same. You know, I always say there's a lot going on in the spiritual world. I call it a mystery. It actually connects directly to my current Episcopalian faith. Episcopalians love to say things are a mystery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So after training, you made it through successfully. Did you guys lose anybody in training? Did you have anybody go home or couldn't cut it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, none that I recall. I might be forgetting that aspect of it, but there wasn't, it wasn't a big washout. We did through the entire period lose some folks. But I don't recall anybody washing out actually during the training period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good. Then you guys went off and started your jobs. Where were you assigned to teach initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we all interviewed with the Ministry of Education and they told me that I would be going to Suva Grammar School, which is one of the three main government schools, Suva Grammar School. As well as for boys, that was Queen Victoria School and RKS. And then the girls school where I eventually taught at Adi Cakobau School. But I spent a semester at Suva Grammar School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and Suva's the capital city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.406609869269406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, none that I recall. I might be forgetting that aspect of it, but there wasn't, it wasn't a big washout. We did through the entire period lose some folks. But I don't recall anybody washing out actually during the training period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good. Then you guys went off and started your jobs. Where were you assigned to teach initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we all interviewed with the Ministry of Education and they told me that I would be going to Suva Grammar School, which is one of the three main government schools, Suva Grammar School. As well as for boys, that was Queen Victoria School and RKS. And then the girls school where I eventually taught at Adi Cakobau School. But I spent a semester at Suva Grammar School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and Suva's the capital city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suva is the capital city and it's right in the area they call the Domain. In fact, our school and our housing was right across the street from the prime minister residence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was pretty upscale compared to most volunteers probably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.267419591690624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suva is the capital city and it's right in the area they call the Domain. In fact, our school and our housing was right across the street from the prime minister residence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was pretty upscale compared to most volunteers probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was not an imbore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was actually embarrassed by the whole thing. I was thinking I was going away for this helping others type experience and, you know, seeing this housing and how nice everything was, I was feeling a little guilty about that. Which, you know, didn't last long because I was after one semester out in the bush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Why did you get transferred?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.297132879656248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was not an imbore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was actually embarrassed by the whole thing. I was thinking I was going away for this helping others type experience and, you know, seeing this housing and how nice everything was, I was feeling a little guilty about that. Which, you know, didn't last long because I was after one semester out in the bush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Why did you get transferred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a choice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.330147644062498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was actually embarrassed by the whole thing. I was thinking I was going away for this helping others type experience and, you know, seeing this housing and how nice everything was, I was feeling a little guilty about that. Which, you know, didn't last long because I was after one semester out in the bush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Why did you get transferred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a, well, yes, it was a choice. The Ministry of Education called me in and said, we have this immediate vacancy. There's no mathematics teacher at this all girls school out in the Sawani area. And would I help out? I'm a volunteer to begin with, right? And the first thing that crossed my mind is absolutely, yeah, I would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were back in Suva, how did you like living in the big city there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.477941826736108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a, well, yes, it was a choice. The Ministry of Education called me in and said, we have this immediate vacancy. There's no mathematics teacher at this all girls school out in the Sawani area. And would I help out? I'm a volunteer to begin with, right? And the first thing that crossed my mind is absolutely, yeah, I would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were back in Suva, how did you like living in the big city there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, coming from San Francisco, it really didn't seem like a big city to me. It seemed like an island that had, you know, the odd bit of building on it. But for the feeling of it at all was not at all like what I considered a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it what you expected when you signed up for the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.753268696373453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a, well, yes, it was a choice. The Ministry of Education called me in and said, we have this immediate vacancy. There's no mathematics teacher at this all girls school out in the Sawani area. And would I help out? I'm a volunteer to begin with, right? And the first thing that crossed my mind is absolutely, yeah, I would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were back in Suva, how did you like living in the big city there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, coming from San Francisco, it really didn't seem like a big city to me. It seemed like an island that had, you know, the odd bit of building on it. But for the feeling of it at all was not at all like what I considered a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it what you expected when you signed up for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what I expected, not really. I was looking for really an adventure of learning and cultural exploration and giving back to some degree. I would say the giving back part got stronger as I was actually there. May have been more self interest in the beginning, but when you start seeing the effect you have on folks' lives and particularly your students' lives. And you realize, well, you know, if they pass six form math, which is not that common in Fiji, pretty much get a job at a bank or some relatively good job by local standards. So you were offering something that really did matter in their lives. That's what convinces you to believe in the vision, if you will, and embrace it. At least that was, in my case, the facts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you went from living in Suva to Adi Cakobau school, which you said was out in the bush."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.948076329303836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, coming from San Francisco, it really didn't seem like a big city to me. It seemed like an island that had, you know, the odd bit of building on it. But for the feeling of it at all was not at all like what I considered a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it what you expected when you signed up for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what I expected, not really. I was looking for really an adventure of learning and cultural exploration and giving back to some degree. I would say the giving back part got stronger as I was actually there. May have been more self interest in the beginning, but when you start seeing the effect you have on folks' lives and particularly your students' lives. And you realize, well, you know, if they pass six form math, which is not that common in Fiji, pretty much get a job at a bank or some relatively good job by local standards. So you were offering something that really did matter in their lives. That's what convinces you to believe in the vision, if you will, and embrace it. At least that was, in my case, the facts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you went from living in Suva to Adi Cakobau school, which you said was out in the bush."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sawani. Yeah, it was about 12 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a village nearby where you stayed or what was your living situation like out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.275640365893151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what I expected, not really. I was looking for really an adventure of learning and cultural exploration and giving back to some degree. I would say the giving back part got stronger as I was actually there. May have been more self interest in the beginning, but when you start seeing the effect you have on folks' lives and particularly your students' lives. And you realize, well, you know, if they pass six form math, which is not that common in Fiji, pretty much get a job at a bank or some relatively good job by local standards. So you were offering something that really did matter in their lives. That's what convinces you to believe in the vision, if you will, and embrace it. At least that was, in my case, the facts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you went from living in Suva to Adi Cakobau school, which you said was out in the bush."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sawani. Yeah, it was about 12 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a village nearby where you stayed or what was your living situation like out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were quarters. They were nothing near as nice as the teachers’ quarters at Suva Grammar School. But there were teacher's quarters we had, I believe there were three in one building. And then you had a shared kitchen, living room, cooking area, that type of thing. None of us actually cooked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all Peace Corps volunteers staying in the quarters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.750711517659058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sawani. Yeah, it was about 12 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a village nearby where you stayed or what was your living situation like out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were quarters. They were nothing near as nice as the teachers’ quarters at Suva Grammar School. But there were teacher's quarters we had, I believe there were three in one building. And then you had a shared kitchen, living room, cooking area, that type of thing. None of us actually cooked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all Peace Corps volunteers staying in the quarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there local teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.38967946406562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were quarters. They were nothing near as nice as the teachers’ quarters at Suva Grammar School. But there were teacher's quarters we had, I believe there were three in one building. And then you had a shared kitchen, living room, cooking area, that type of thing. None of us actually cooked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all Peace Corps volunteers staying in the quarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there local teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at an all girls school. I was the only man at the school. I was the only male teacher at the school at the time. And everybody else was a Fijian teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared the quarters with these Fijian, other Fijian teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.210754960072908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there local teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at an all girls school. I was the only man at the school. I was the only male teacher at the school at the time. And everybody else was a Fijian teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared the quarters with these Fijian, other Fijian teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Yeah. And they also had other arrangements. I don't remember anybody cooking. I ate pretty much every night at the dining hall with girls. So I would sit at the matron's table. The girls have a matron that's in charge of running the kitchen area and many of the activities for the girls. And so I used to call her my wife and I'd sit there and have dinner with my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that go over? Probably a big joke around the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.011949955636563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at an all girls school. I was the only man at the school. I was the only male teacher at the school at the time. And everybody else was a Fijian teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you shared the quarters with these Fijian, other Fijian teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Yeah. And they also had other arrangements. I don't remember anybody cooking. I ate pretty much every night at the dining hall with girls. So I would sit at the matron's table. The girls have a matron that's in charge of running the kitchen area and many of the activities for the girls. And so I used to call her my wife and I'd sit there and have dinner with my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that go over? Probably a big joke around the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was about, I was in my twenties and she was in her sixties, so yeah, we were quite the pair. But she had, as many folks there do, a wonderful laugh and it was just plain fun to be with all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then your whole life pretty much revolved around the school since you weren't in a village with the local community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.902166617373958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Yeah. And they also had other arrangements. I don't remember anybody cooking. I ate pretty much every night at the dining hall with girls. So I would sit at the matron's table. The girls have a matron that's in charge of running the kitchen area and many of the activities for the girls. And so I used to call her my wife and I'd sit there and have dinner with my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that go over? Probably a big joke around the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was about, I was in my twenties and she was in her sixties, so yeah, we were quite the pair. But she had, as many folks there do, a wonderful laugh and it was just plain fun to be with all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then your whole life pretty much revolved around the school since you weren't in a village with the local community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So you'd watch the Adi Cakobau School sports activities. I've got pictures of the girls sitting on the sides of the building and watching field hockey. Adi Cakobau School is pretty much an undefeated champion of field hockey. And you watch the girls sports. We would also do some activities together like math club and those type of activities, some academic. And if you had time off, you know, you went into town. That was certainly an option for the weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it, a couple of hours into town from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.891296241526618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was about, I was in my twenties and she was in her sixties, so yeah, we were quite the pair. But she had, as many folks there do, a wonderful laugh and it was just plain fun to be with all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then your whole life pretty much revolved around the school since you weren't in a village with the local community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So you'd watch the Adi Cakobau School sports activities. I've got pictures of the girls sitting on the sides of the building and watching field hockey. Adi Cakobau School is pretty much an undefeated champion of field hockey. And you watch the girls sports. We would also do some activities together like math club and those type of activities, some academic. And if you had time off, you know, you went into town. That was certainly an option for the weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it, a couple of hours into town from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's 12 miles so. As you know, the speed of the busses in those days, so it could be a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, probably more like an hour. So just tell me what a typical day might be like there at the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.54588471280735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So you'd watch the Adi Cakobau School sports activities. I've got pictures of the girls sitting on the sides of the building and watching field hockey. Adi Cakobau School is pretty much an undefeated champion of field hockey. And you watch the girls sports. We would also do some activities together like math club and those type of activities, some academic. And if you had time off, you know, you went into town. That was certainly an option for the weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it, a couple of hours into town from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's 12 miles so. As you know, the speed of the busses in those days, so it could be a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, probably more like an hour. So just tell me what a typical day might be like there at the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think like most teachers you head off to your class. I had pretty much the same. I taught forms four, five, and six, which is equivalent in the U.S. to grades 10, 11 and 12. So most of my sixth form class was in the same building. So I would head off to that building and I'd prepared the lesson and, you know, would start the conversation with the girls and live a teacher's life. It's actually pretty programed because they have breaks. I found out what a biscuit is in a nice way. You know, they had asked me if I wanted a biscuit and didn't realize it was a homemade, delicious cookie that I was going to get with this wonderful tea.\n\nSo after the bit of teaching, you'd get your first break and you'd sit and talk to other teachers, and then there'd be a break for lunch and then into the afternoon. I suppose you finished roughly the same time as U.S. schedules, you know, early afternoon, 3:00 or 4:00. And then you're back to your quarters to do paper grading and preparing for the next day lessons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, so teachers had a lot of work to do outside of school, just as they do here with grading papers and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.384316347563722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's 12 miles so. As you know, the speed of the busses in those days, so it could be a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, probably more like an hour. So just tell me what a typical day might be like there at the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think like most teachers you head off to your class. I had pretty much the same. I taught forms four, five, and six, which is equivalent in the U.S. to grades 10, 11 and 12. So most of my sixth form class was in the same building. So I would head off to that building and I'd prepared the lesson and, you know, would start the conversation with the girls and live a teacher's life. It's actually pretty programed because they have breaks. I found out what a biscuit is in a nice way. You know, they had asked me if I wanted a biscuit and didn't realize it was a homemade, delicious cookie that I was going to get with this wonderful tea.\n\nSo after the bit of teaching, you'd get your first break and you'd sit and talk to other teachers, and then there'd be a break for lunch and then into the afternoon. I suppose you finished roughly the same time as U.S. schedules, you know, early afternoon, 3:00 or 4:00. And then you're back to your quarters to do paper grading and preparing for the next day lessons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, so teachers had a lot of work to do outside of school, just as they do here with grading papers and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would probably eat up your evening."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.41273623156015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would probably eat up your evening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And then, as I say, I did start a math club at one time that. You know, you look back at these things and say, boy, I would do so much more if I was there now, and I would do things more intensely and better. But you know, at the time, they'd never heard of a math club, so it was a good project to also be involved with. And, you know, there are a lot of school functions as well on days they would put on mecces and various events, welcome people from the outside who are visiting, have assemblies. Typical things you'd have at a boarding school. You know, the majority of all the students at Adi Cakobau School were boarders and, you know, you're talking about several hundred girls that are living there from all over Fiji really.\n\nAs you probably know, Adi Cakobau School is the pride of Fijian womanhood. And brilliant women are there, most notably my former boss, who later became the Deputy Prime Minister, Miss Vakatale. So, you know, she is, uh, and also the vice principal, Ethalini. Thankfully I was able to connect with them. I've talked with them through the years as well. In fact, I was intending to see both of them at the recent 50th anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet up with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, unfortunately, there was a reguregu for Ethalini and her family, a funeral. And Miss Vakatale is in her eighties, and so she has her good days and bad days. And frankly, I was pleased at this particular event. The 50th celebration was very loud and noisy. And I really don't think she would have been comfortable had she met up there. She confirmed to go, but then sent her regrets that she wasn't feeling up to it. And it was a pretty noisy event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do in your leisure time out there while you're out at the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.867575594518701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, unfortunately, there was a reguregu for Ethalini and her family, a funeral. And Miss Vakatale is in her eighties, and so she has her good days and bad days. And frankly, I was pleased at this particular event. The 50th celebration was very loud and noisy. And I really don't think she would have been comfortable had she met up there. She confirmed to go, but then sent her regrets that she wasn't feeling up to it. And it was a pretty noisy event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do in your leisure time out there while you're out at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of my favorite activities was scuba diving. You know, when I went there, I was a licensed scuba diver with NAUI. And then I joined the local dive organization there, the British Sub-Aqua Club, and I was an assistant instructor. So I got to do quite a bit of diving, went to places like the Astrolabe Reef that's typically rated in the top five by U.S. divers. So all throughout the time, particularly when I was in Suva area, I did a lot of scuba diving. So other favorite activities were meeting up with friends and going hiking, exploring around, going to places like Levuka. We'd take trips on, I think they call them copra boats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's one, I recall the name Ace Akula, that was able to be a transport boat. So exploring was probably the thing I would talk about next. And then I spent quite a bit of time socializing with other Fijians and just going to their houses, cooking chicken curry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean around the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.18619510502078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of my favorite activities was scuba diving. You know, when I went there, I was a licensed scuba diver with NAUI. And then I joined the local dive organization there, the British Sub-Aqua Club, and I was an assistant instructor. So I got to do quite a bit of diving, went to places like the Astrolabe Reef that's typically rated in the top five by U.S. divers. So all throughout the time, particularly when I was in Suva area, I did a lot of scuba diving. So other favorite activities were meeting up with friends and going hiking, exploring around, going to places like Levuka. We'd take trips on, I think they call them copra boats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's one, I recall the name Ace Akula, that was able to be a transport boat. So exploring was probably the thing I would talk about next. And then I spent quite a bit of time socializing with other Fijians and just going to their houses, cooking chicken curry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean around the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other teachers, other friends around the school. Pretty much every night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the other teachers would have had their families out there, the married ones anyway, they would have been there with their families. So you did have some good community there, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.54021678335642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's one, I recall the name Ace Akula, that was able to be a transport boat. So exploring was probably the thing I would talk about next. And then I spent quite a bit of time socializing with other Fijians and just going to their houses, cooking chicken curry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean around the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other teachers, other friends around the school. Pretty much every night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the other teachers would have had their families out there, the married ones anyway, they would have been there with their families. So you did have some good community there, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Pretty much. Well, when I was in Suva, pretty much every night we would be in the circle with somebody having a guitar and a tanoah and we would sit there singing songs, talking about the day, and going over problem areas that we had with students, discussing that type of thing. And of course drinking grog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memorable experiences or episodes while you were at, during your teaching time out there in the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.543477510316567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Pretty much. Well, when I was in Suva, pretty much every night we would be in the circle with somebody having a guitar and a tanoah and we would sit there singing songs, talking about the day, and going over problem areas that we had with students, discussing that type of thing. And of course drinking grog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memorable experiences or episodes while you were at, during your teaching time out there in the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. I mean there's, gosh, lots of things happened. Memorable. It was one thing in particular that I enjoyed. There was a bit of a battle. There's a position similar to valedictorian at schools in Fiji they call dux, D-U-X, and that particular role is a high honor. And we had quite a debate over who would actually get that particular role. The student I wanted was Telaite Biu, and she was one of my top math students. So I and the other teachers all debated and Telaite was in fact selected. And I was so pleased.\n\nWhen I went back to Fiji a few years ago, I put on a little party and invited people and she showed up. She's now a doctor, Telaite Biu, and she became an eye surgeon and runs the Pacific, she's now the director of the Pacific Eye Institute, so in a very prestigious role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was, you know, quite memorable to me that I promoted this person and to see their life where it went and how super successful that she became."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's rewarding to see somebody that you taught become such a success, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.714975011462851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. I mean there's, gosh, lots of things happened. Memorable. It was one thing in particular that I enjoyed. There was a bit of a battle. There's a position similar to valedictorian at schools in Fiji they call dux, D-U-X, and that particular role is a high honor. And we had quite a debate over who would actually get that particular role. The student I wanted was Telaite Biu, and she was one of my top math students. So I and the other teachers all debated and Telaite was in fact selected. And I was so pleased.\n\nWhen I went back to Fiji a few years ago, I put on a little party and invited people and she showed up. She's now a doctor, Telaite Biu, and she became an eye surgeon and runs the Pacific, she's now the director of the Pacific Eye Institute, so in a very prestigious role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was, you know, quite memorable to me that I promoted this person and to see their life where it went and how super successful that she became."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's rewarding to see somebody that you taught become such a success, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So looking back at your service, what do you think were your main accomplishments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.29009260674426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So looking back at your service, what do you think were your main accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, as a teacher in Fiji, getting folks to pass exams is very important. In fact, it's critical. They take different examinations to move to the next level. So me being a math teacher, I would say that answer's pretty simple. Getting the maximum number of people to pass. I was a completely untrained teacher and at the end of the year, the boss, Miss Vakatale, told me that my pass rate was higher than the previous year, when they had a trained teacher from, I believe it was Australia or New Zealand, that they would have had to pay a lot more money than the $0 they paid me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was our benchmark, is how many of your students pass the exams?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets about your service there or anything that happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.100102896382511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, as a teacher in Fiji, getting folks to pass exams is very important. In fact, it's critical. They take different examinations to move to the next level. So me being a math teacher, I would say that answer's pretty simple. Getting the maximum number of people to pass. I was a completely untrained teacher and at the end of the year, the boss, Miss Vakatale, told me that my pass rate was higher than the previous year, when they had a trained teacher from, I believe it was Australia or New Zealand, that they would have had to pay a lot more money than the $0 they paid me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was our benchmark, is how many of your students pass the exams?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets about your service there or anything that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember anything at all other than what I talked about earlier that, you know, when you get older and hopefully wiser, you think, oh, I would have worked harder from the get-go. I would have been more serious about certain aspects of the job, more dedicated to accomplishing more. So if there were any regrets, it would have just been to do more and more seriously what that job was. But, you know, you're in your twenties. You're there for an experience for yourself. And it really doesn't evolve completely until you've actually felt the results of your work. And that's when really service, I think, begins. And its contribution begins, when you see some results of your work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you completed the initial first year tour and decided not to extend it. Did you have an opportunity to extend if you had, if you'd wanted to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.000127032571001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember anything at all other than what I talked about earlier that, you know, when you get older and hopefully wiser, you think, oh, I would have worked harder from the get-go. I would have been more serious about certain aspects of the job, more dedicated to accomplishing more. So if there were any regrets, it would have just been to do more and more seriously what that job was. But, you know, you're in your twenties. You're there for an experience for yourself. And it really doesn't evolve completely until you've actually felt the results of your work. And that's when really service, I think, begins. And its contribution begins, when you see some results of your work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you completed the initial first year tour and decided not to extend it. Did you have an opportunity to extend if you had, if you'd wanted to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At one point, I guess coming from a business background for my dad, I went to the Ministry of Education and I asked them for a raise and their answer was, sure, we have no problem to give you a raise. We'll offer you a job here and you can quit the Peace Corps and work for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was always in the cards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you decided not to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8197379000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. My family was transferred to Canada. I spent three years in Canada, but I managed many organizations globally, set up joint ventures in China. I opened subsidiary offices in Mexico and Hong Kong. All over most parts of the world. And, yeah, we could have moved again. My wife is a little partial to this area, though, so that wasn't such an easy thing to do. She was okay with Canada, but you know, she wanted to really ensure that if we were to move somewhere, you know, it was going to be better for all the family. And I couldn't argue with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think the Peace Corps service had something to do with pushing you into that international?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No doubt. No doubt. It convinced me that I liked other cultures. I could say I was equally if not more comfortable with other cultures and certainly with what I experienced in Fiji, to make me want to spend time away from my own country. That I saw many, many things about Fijians that I felt were quite superior to what I perceived of my own fellow Americans. And their loving warmth was. Certainly one of my most memorable experiences was a very simple thing of getting on a bus. And there were some ladies in the back of the bus and then the bus would stop and another lady would get on. And they literally would run across the bus, hug each other, this great warm feeling, like a long-lost friend they hadn't seen. And they did that every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every single day. And I'd never really seen anybody embracing, loving, warm like that pretty much in my entire growth. And, you know, I came from a loving family, relatively speaking, a super happy family, but we didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been back to Fiji a time or two since then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0219310000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No doubt. No doubt. It convinced me that I liked other cultures. I could say I was equally if not more comfortable with other cultures and certainly with what I experienced in Fiji, to make me want to spend time away from my own country. That I saw many, many things about Fijians that I felt were quite superior to what I perceived of my own fellow Americans. And their loving warmth was. Certainly one of my most memorable experiences was a very simple thing of getting on a bus. And there were some ladies in the back of the bus and then the bus would stop and another lady would get on. And they literally would run across the bus, hug each other, this great warm feeling, like a long-lost friend they hadn't seen. And they did that every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every single day. And I'd never really seen anybody embracing, loving, warm like that pretty much in my entire growth. And, you know, I came from a loving family, relatively speaking, a super happy family, but we didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been back to Fiji a time or two since then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Well, there was the Habitat for Humanity trip. Went back in conjunction with that trip, did some work, some projects and visited the people who I had worked with previously. And then of course the 50th anniversary. So I've been back twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Habitat trip was 2011. So was that the first time since 1977 that you had been back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2465900000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every single day. And I'd never really seen anybody embracing, loving, warm like that pretty much in my entire growth. And, you know, I came from a loving family, relatively speaking, a super happy family, but we didn't do anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been back to Fiji a time or two since then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Well, there was the Habitat for Humanity trip. Went back in conjunction with that trip, did some work, some projects and visited the people who I had worked with previously. And then of course the 50th anniversary. So I've been back twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Habitat trip was 2011. So was that the first time since 1977 that you had been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And did you notice a lot of changes in that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Well, there was the Habitat for Humanity trip. Went back in conjunction with that trip, did some work, some projects and visited the people who I had worked with previously. And then of course the 50th anniversary. So I've been back twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Habitat trip was 2011. So was that the first time since 1977 that you had been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And did you notice a lot of changes in that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would say I noticed more similarities than the changes, really. I mean, sure, Suva was different and people had grown up. But the warmth, the friendliness, the cultural aspects that I described earlier were pretty much identical. I didn't notice any change in that whatsoever. They didn't suddenly become less warm, less loving, and less friendly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still, now you're involved with Friends of Fiji. So you're still giving back to, uh, to the country in some way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And did you notice a lot of changes in that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would say I noticed more similarities than the changes, really. I mean, sure, Suva was different and people had grown up. But the warmth, the friendliness, the cultural aspects that I described earlier were pretty much identical. I didn't notice any change in that whatsoever. They didn't suddenly become less warm, less loving, and less friendly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still, now you're involved with Friends of Fiji. So you're still giving back to, uh, to the country in some way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's really part of something that I like doing, especially now that I'm, I guess I could call it semi-retired, that it's one of the projects of interest to me. Because you just don't have that good of an experience and sort of a special relationship with the country and then turn down an opportunity to continue to be engaged. And of course, I was really pleased that many of us from Friends of Fiji were able to travel there. I liked that we all just, just like before. You know, I hung out with some Peace Corps people in the beginning. And then once I was integrated into the culture, most all of my friends were Fijians. I still had a few Peace Corps friends, you know, and that's what I noticed, that everybody has their own affinity group we all go back to. We all meet up with the locals who we were associated with, which I think is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it must have been good to see some of those people after so many years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would say I noticed more similarities than the changes, really. I mean, sure, Suva was different and people had grown up. But the warmth, the friendliness, the cultural aspects that I described earlier were pretty much identical. I didn't notice any change in that whatsoever. They didn't suddenly become less warm, less loving, and less friendly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still, now you're involved with Friends of Fiji. So you're still giving back to, uh, to the country in some way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's really part of something that I like doing, especially now that I'm, I guess I could call it semi-retired, that it's one of the projects of interest to me. Because you just don't have that good of an experience and sort of a special relationship with the country and then turn down an opportunity to continue to be engaged. And of course, I was really pleased that many of us from Friends of Fiji were able to travel there. I liked that we all just, just like before. You know, I hung out with some Peace Corps people in the beginning. And then once I was integrated into the culture, most all of my friends were Fijians. I still had a few Peace Corps friends, you know, and that's what I noticed, that everybody has their own affinity group we all go back to. We all meet up with the locals who we were associated with, which I think is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it must have been good to see some of those people after so many years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's tremendously undescribably rewarding. I don't even think I could tell people how cool that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So would you say that maybe the best part of the whole Peace Corps experience is those relationships, those connections that you make with the local people that last so long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's really part of something that I like doing, especially now that I'm, I guess I could call it semi-retired, that it's one of the projects of interest to me. Because you just don't have that good of an experience and sort of a special relationship with the country and then turn down an opportunity to continue to be engaged. And of course, I was really pleased that many of us from Friends of Fiji were able to travel there. I liked that we all just, just like before. You know, I hung out with some Peace Corps people in the beginning. And then once I was integrated into the culture, most all of my friends were Fijians. I still had a few Peace Corps friends, you know, and that's what I noticed, that everybody has their own affinity group we all go back to. We all meet up with the locals who we were associated with, which I think is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it must have been good to see some of those people after so many years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's tremendously undescribably rewarding. I don't even think I could tell people how cool that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So would you say that maybe the best part of the whole Peace Corps experience is those relationships, those connections that you make with the local people that last so long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's absolutely, absolutely that, and feeling that, you know, within this complicated world made some kind of a positive impact and that they recognize that you did make some kind of a positive impact. And, you know, because a lot of times you'd go to a place and really try to do your best, but it might not be what they really appreciated. But, you know, they let you know that they did appreciate what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Any plans to go back in the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's tremendously undescribably rewarding. I don't even think I could tell people how cool that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So would you say that maybe the best part of the whole Peace Corps experience is those relationships, those connections that you make with the local people that last so long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's absolutely, absolutely that, and feeling that, you know, within this complicated world made some kind of a positive impact and that they recognize that you did make some kind of a positive impact. And, you know, because a lot of times you'd go to a place and really try to do your best, but it might not be what they really appreciated. But, you know, they let you know that they did appreciate what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Any plans to go back in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to go back as often as possible. You know, I live here in the Bay Area. All my family's here in the Bay Area. So it's not a simple task for me to go. I've got to convince others that it's in their interests as well. So, yeah, that's if I have a bit of an issue there, it's that this is my project. It's not something that we all in the family do together. So that means I have limited amount of time I can spend with it because it's individual to me. I was the only one who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So is there anything else you want to share? I think we're kind of wrapping up the questions here. Bu any last thoughts or things that you might have remembered while we've been talking that you want to get in here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00073:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's absolutely, absolutely that, and feeling that, you know, within this complicated world made some kind of a positive impact and that they recognize that you did make some kind of a positive impact. And, you know, because a lot of times you'd go to a place and really try to do your best, but it might not be what they really appreciated. But, you know, they let you know that they did appreciate what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Any plans to go back in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to go back as often as possible. You know, I live here in the Bay Area. All my family's here in the Bay Area. So it's not a simple task for me to go. I've got to convince others that it's in their interests as well. So, yeah, that's if I have a bit of an issue there, it's that this is my project. It's not something that we all in the family do together. So that means I have limited amount of time I can spend with it because it's individual to me. I was the only one who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So is there anything else you want to share? I think we're kind of wrapping up the questions here. Bu any last thoughts or things that you might have remembered while we've been talking that you want to get in here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think it's pretty remarkable that somebody who's 66 years old thinks about a place and when I meet new people, I find that the topic comes up relatively soon in conversations. You know, we'll talk about my interest in fishing, my interest in golfing, maybe some work if there happens to be a connection to that person. But invariably, at some point not too long into the conversation, I go, oh no, by the way, I was in Fiji. And suddenly you look at them and they say, oh, well, tell me more about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. Well, thanks a lot, Paul. I think it was a great interview and this is a conclusion."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.85099149618863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m very proud that I was able to be the Center Director when the last Shuttle rolled to a stop out there. Means an awful lot to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Centers that had those sort of celebrations like JSC did for that final rollout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I would think so. I would assume [NASA] Kennedy Space Center, [Florida (KSC)] probably, with Bob [Robert D.] Cabana down there [as Center Director], certainly had something, but I don’t know for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the selection of the Orbiters. Did you have any input with NASA Headquarters to determine where the three Orbiters were going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a bit. That’s a sore subject with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hate to bring it up. I had a suspicion it might be. Just curious about that, if Center Directors had any input."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 25.3899905513207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I would think so. I would assume [NASA] Kennedy Space Center, [Florida (KSC)] probably, with Bob [Robert D.] Cabana down there [as Center Director], certainly had something, but I don’t know for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the selection of the Orbiters. Did you have any input with NASA Headquarters to determine where the three Orbiters were going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a bit. That’s a sore subject with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hate to bring it up. I had a suspicion it might be. Just curious about that, if Center Directors had any input."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was a political decision that they covered up with some kind of Mickey Mouse analysis. They were not going to send an Orbiter to Texas. It’s funny, because I was scheduled to testify to Congress shortly after that on some other subject, and we had some rehearsals at NASA Headquarters. One of the lawyers said, “Okay, if a congressman asks you if you were upset about where the Orbiters went, what are you going to say?”\\n\\n I said, “Goddamn right I am.”\\n\\n They laughed, and Charlie said, “We may want to phrase that a little differently.” It doesn’t make any sense. This is where human spaceflight is run from; this is where the Space Shuttle Program was. It’s the 5th largest city in the United States. Good heavens. We couldn’t put one of the Orbiters here? You’ve got to be kidding me. But they weren’t going to put it in a red [Republican] state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any role in bringing the replica that we have now that’s on top of the SCA [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]? Or was that all Joel Walker’s doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.538623001555703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t see that one coming either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the SAIL [Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory] facility. Of course at the time here at JSC we were disappointed because we didn’t get an Orbiter, but there was some discussion about SAIL. It had a tail number, OV-095. At what point did you make the decision, or did someone else make the decision, to make that a permanent stopping point on the tram for Space Center Houston, thinking it would be a great exhibit and opportunity to tell the Shuttle story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a joint decision, because a lot of people had to contribute money to modify that facility. Of course, I had worked in SAIL for a year or so before the first Shuttle mission, so I was attached to it anyway over there, and I thought, “Hey, this might be a good idea.” So we converted it, and it’s a nice facility. Now, the tram doesn’t stop there anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn’t?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They stopped it after a while, so that may not have been the greatest idea in the world. I actually was over there a couple of weeks ago looking at it, and it’s a shame, but I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people. You have to explain what it is. It’s really a test bed for the Shuttle, all the avionics as realistic as possible. That’s how you test out the software. I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it needs more signage. I haven’t been over there in a couple of years. Last time I was over there, there wasn’t much explanation, maybe that’s it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.376247779506336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a joint decision, because a lot of people had to contribute money to modify that facility. Of course, I had worked in SAIL for a year or so before the first Shuttle mission, so I was attached to it anyway over there, and I thought, “Hey, this might be a good idea.” So we converted it, and it’s a nice facility. Now, the tram doesn’t stop there anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn’t?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They stopped it after a while, so that may not have been the greatest idea in the world. I actually was over there a couple of weeks ago looking at it, and it’s a shame, but I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people. You have to explain what it is. It’s really a test bed for the Shuttle, all the avionics as realistic as possible. That’s how you test out the software. I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it needs more signage. I haven’t been over there in a couple of years. Last time I was over there, there wasn’t much explanation, maybe that’s it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you need to go over there, give a couple of tours."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.418053088340372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They stopped it after a while, so that may not have been the greatest idea in the world. I actually was over there a couple of weeks ago looking at it, and it’s a shame, but I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people. You have to explain what it is. It’s really a test bed for the Shuttle, all the avionics as realistic as possible. That’s how you test out the software. I guess it just wasn’t that interesting to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it needs more signage. I haven’t been over there in a couple of years. Last time I was over there, there wasn’t much explanation, maybe that’s it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you need to go over there, give a couple of tours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there you go, in my spare time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a lot of Shuttle property that is no longer at NASA. Was there discussion that this would be too difficult to dismantle and piece back together elsewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.686725653711523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you need to go over there, give a couple of tours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there you go, in my spare time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a lot of Shuttle property that is no longer at NASA. Was there discussion that this would be too difficult to dismantle and piece back together elsewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a combination of who would pay for it and who wants it, who wants it bad enough to pay for it. It came down to nobody wanted it bad enough to pay for it, and we said, “Okay, let’s see if we can use it, get some benefit out of it.” A lot of the Shuttle hardware, people did want it, and we wanted it to get out there, we wanted it to be available for the public to see as much as possible, but it costs money to move things. Some of the museums were anxious to get it and pay for it, but we just didn’t have the money to do a whole lot, I’m afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a difficult time for you, seeing things like the full fuselage trainer and some of the other simulators leave JSC?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.273777859642614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. As the pilot of the first Discovery mission, and all three of my missions, it meant a lot to me to see Discovery come in out there. That was a big event, really pretty special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been out to see her since she’s been placed in the museum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no I haven’t. Someday I’ll take the granddaughters out there and tell them I flew that, and they’re going to go, “Wow, you must be really old.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they’ll be really impressed. Speaking of your granddaughters, because I think they have something to do with this, I remember you would always tell people—you’d end a meeting with, “Just keep your heads down and keep coloring.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wanted people to keep doing their job. I kept saying, the best way we can influence the future is to do a great job now, and if we accomplish the missions we’ve been given, we’ll be given a lot more missions in the future. So, just keep doing what you’re doing, keep coloring, it’ll work out. Always does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about your work with national politicians. Did you have much contact or work much with the mayor of Houston or state government?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.938996189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don’t shovel snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And don’t freeze to death too often here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a nice place to live. I can’t complain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we can always complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how about this, it could be worse."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00112:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.15444021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And don’t freeze to death too often here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a nice place to live. I can’t complain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we can always complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how about this, it could be worse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could be worse, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were Center Director, and I don’t know if this was the case before you came, the federal government was trying to decrease its use of energy and become more efficient. How much of a challenge was it for you as Center Director to cut back on things like water and electricity usage? I know there was some effort to put in sun panels at the child care center, and other efficiencies, but what challenges were there taking a facility built in the early ’60s and bringing it up into 21st century efficiency standards?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.106161354374876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually. They housed this stuff in a particular place. I don’t think there was anything lead-lined, but there was a certain amount of metal and so forth. I think that’s what protected it. We did find of course some base fog, especially on the really fast films that we started using for things. The faster the film, the easier it fogs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had one question. I was just thinking about that 8 x 10 Deardorff camera. Who decided to order that? How did you end up with that camera?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We ended up with about six of them. [I think they were ordered by Jack Ottinger, who became the head of the Still Photo Section.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the beginning, why was that camera chosen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them we set up and used for a copy camera. I think the idea was to use it for a portrait camera, because we were getting into shooting portraits of the astronauts for PAO [Public Affairs Office]. The rest of them, I guess, were just used for regular work or something. But they were large."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just seemed like an interesting choice at that time to purchase those cameras."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 30.11795706041653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We ended up with about six of them. [I think they were ordered by Jack Ottinger, who became the head of the Still Photo Section.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the beginning, why was that camera chosen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them we set up and used for a copy camera. I think the idea was to use it for a portrait camera, because we were getting into shooting portraits of the astronauts for PAO [Public Affairs Office]. The rest of them, I guess, were just used for regular work or something. But they were large."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just seemed like an interesting choice at that time to purchase those cameras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I could afford the film for it, I wouldn’t mind having one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then what did you move into next? Was there a next range of cameras that you started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.00982353137843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I could afford the film for it, I wouldn’t mind having one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then what did you move into next? Was there a next range of cameras that you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some 4 x 5 [inch] Speed Graphics, which the news people were still using. It was getting old. We used to go shoot stuff with those. But they’re slow to use, as compared with a 35-[millimeter] or a Hasselblad or something. Then we moved to using Hasselblads for most things. But still we did an awful lot of nuts and bolts photography for engineers and so forth.\\n\\n We also had 4 x 5 [inch] view cameras. The nice thing about a view camera is you can bend the bellows around and the front lens board to correct for any number of things. If you shoot a picture of something, just a square object or a computer or something, it’s going to be big in the front and narrow toward the back. This you can correct for parallax with a view camera. So we used those a lot. They’re slow. We would go out on a job and take a view camera and a whole bunch of lights and light stands, and we had big dollies to carry all this stuff. It was pretty slow, and dull and unrewarding!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes people see NASA photographers as always being the glitz and the glamour. But if you look in the image repository, you’d see suit development, construction, pictures of the chambers. When I’ve seen those I can imagine some of those were challenging because of the tight spaces that you had while they were doing testing. Do you have any memories of any of those that were more challenging than others, with some of those onsite photos that you had to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one time or another I guess I probably worked in every area that there was around NASA. I used to shoot stuff down at the arc jet and down at thermochemical. This was a job down at thermochemical [photo numbers\\n\\n TS-1\\n\\n and\\n\\n TS-2\\n\\n ]. This was a job for the suit people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looks like suits."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.728177199232626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one time or another I guess I probably worked in every area that there was around NASA. I used to shoot stuff down at the arc jet and down at thermochemical. This was a job down at thermochemical [photo numbers\\n\\n TS-1\\n\\n and\\n\\n TS-2\\n\\n ]. This was a job for the suit people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looks like suits."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then this picture [photo number\\n\\n TS-3\\n\\n ], they told me that if I stuck with NASA I would end up in high places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you were. You’re up on a big boom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was in Building 9, I think.\\n\\n When we first started in the aerial photo section, we had a whole lot older planes than what we have now. We didn’t have the T-38s [Talon airplane].\\n\\n This is a picture of the Photographic Division [photo number\\n\\n S76-30674\\n\\n ], probably when we were about as large as we ever had gotten. These were all just the civil service people. That’s me there. I was looking through here the other day, and I thought, “Oh my goodness, this person is dead, and that person is dead.” A whole lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a crew. So who took the picture, if this is the Division?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 36.364641332480694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then this picture [photo number\\n\\n TS-3\\n\\n ], they told me that if I stuck with NASA I would end up in high places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you were. You’re up on a big boom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was in Building 9, I think.\\n\\n When we first started in the aerial photo section, we had a whole lot older planes than what we have now. We didn’t have the T-38s [Talon airplane].\\n\\n This is a picture of the Photographic Division [photo number\\n\\n S76-30674\\n\\n ], probably when we were about as large as we ever had gotten. These were all just the civil service people. That’s me there. I was looking through here the other day, and I thought, “Oh my goodness, this person is dead, and that person is dead.” A whole lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a crew. So who took the picture, if this is the Division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We might have done it remotely. In fact come to think of it, I think we did. We did it remotely, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on mission photography during the Gemini days as well, or was most of what you started doing for missions during the early Apollo flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.18293481386744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was in Building 9, I think.\\n\\n When we first started in the aerial photo section, we had a whole lot older planes than what we have now. We didn’t have the T-38s [Talon airplane].\\n\\n This is a picture of the Photographic Division [photo number\\n\\n S76-30674\\n\\n ], probably when we were about as large as we ever had gotten. These were all just the civil service people. That’s me there. I was looking through here the other day, and I thought, “Oh my goodness, this person is dead, and that person is dead.” A whole lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a crew. So who took the picture, if this is the Division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We might have done it remotely. In fact come to think of it, I think we did. We did it remotely, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on mission photography during the Gemini days as well, or was most of what you started doing for missions during the early Apollo flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, during Mercury, Gemini mostly I was working in the lab one place or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hours get any better as you got closer to the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 43.806092362799305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, during Mercury, Gemini mostly I was working in the lab one place or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hours get any better as you got closer to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just continual?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was just a huge push to get a man on the Moon. Everybody just worked all the time. It wasn’t until after Apollo and the Apollo-Soyuz that there was a big lull for a long time, until they got the [Space] Shuttle up and running. We used to be able to requisition almost anything or go right down to supply and say, “I need a such-and-such right now,” and you could get it. Well, after Apollo-Soyuz and we got into this big long lull, the people that generated paperwork seem to have gotten ahold of the reins. You couldn’t get anything without paperwork. Then you had to wait and wait and wait until it got delivered. Even if you went down there to pick something up, you still had to have paperwork that they had to process, and then you had to wait and wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a cultural change."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.784547069777005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just continual?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was just a huge push to get a man on the Moon. Everybody just worked all the time. It wasn’t until after Apollo and the Apollo-Soyuz that there was a big lull for a long time, until they got the [Space] Shuttle up and running. We used to be able to requisition almost anything or go right down to supply and say, “I need a such-and-such right now,” and you could get it. Well, after Apollo-Soyuz and we got into this big long lull, the people that generated paperwork seem to have gotten ahold of the reins. You couldn’t get anything without paperwork. Then you had to wait and wait and wait until it got delivered. Even if you went down there to pick something up, you still had to have paperwork that they had to process, and then you had to wait and wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a cultural change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Things really slowed down very rapidly. I remember many years later after that—talk about slowing down—we went home one Friday and came in on Monday, and they had taken the secretaries’ typewriters away. Everybody had a computer on their desk. They didn’t even tell us how to turn the thing on. They sent all the secretaries to school to learn how to do [Microsoft] Word and all these other good things on the computer.\\n\\n I was fortunate. At the time I was the monitor for the digital film recording laboratory. I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but there was a guy in the office there named Sid Clinton who had had a computer company on the outside before he came to work at NASA. I used to try to do my weekly activity reports on the computer. Every once in a while they used to laugh about it. I said, “Sid, Sid, come here, I know it’s in there somewhere.” He’d come and go [knocks] and there it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’d find it for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.11672477750247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Things really slowed down very rapidly. I remember many years later after that—talk about slowing down—we went home one Friday and came in on Monday, and they had taken the secretaries’ typewriters away. Everybody had a computer on their desk. They didn’t even tell us how to turn the thing on. They sent all the secretaries to school to learn how to do [Microsoft] Word and all these other good things on the computer.\\n\\n I was fortunate. At the time I was the monitor for the digital film recording laboratory. I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but there was a guy in the office there named Sid Clinton who had had a computer company on the outside before he came to work at NASA. I used to try to do my weekly activity reports on the computer. Every once in a while they used to laugh about it. I said, “Sid, Sid, come here, I know it’s in there somewhere.” He’d come and go [knocks] and there it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’d find it for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It took me a while to get to be computer-savvy. Now I’m pretty good on a computer. I make opera CD covers on the computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a technological change across the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. The other thing, while we’re on the computer thing, not bragging at all, but I was absolutely the best photo retoucher in the Photo Division. But the way I learned this in school was the old fashioned manual way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One dab at a time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 54.57413864166941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It took me a while to get to be computer-savvy. Now I’m pretty good on a computer. I make opera CD covers on the computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a technological change across the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. The other thing, while we’re on the computer thing, not bragging at all, but I was absolutely the best photo retoucher in the Photo Division. But the way I learned this in school was the old fashioned manual way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One dab at a time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One dot at a time. Retouching color photos is a whole lot more difficult than black-and-white, because you have the density and you have the color to deal with too. Now I do all kinds of photo restoration on the computer, and it is just wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little less intense maybe."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 60.637931824077114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. The other thing, while we’re on the computer thing, not bragging at all, but I was absolutely the best photo retoucher in the Photo Division. But the way I learned this in school was the old fashioned manual way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One dab at a time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One dot at a time. Retouching color photos is a whole lot more difficult than black-and-white, because you have the density and you have the color to deal with too. Now I do all kinds of photo restoration on the computer, and it is just wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little less intense maybe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’ve done a whole lot of genealogy stuff. So I’ve gotten these old, old, old pictures. Some of them have been torn in pieces. I’ve put them back together and fixed them all. You would never know that anything was ever wrong with them. That was just a really major step forward!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would have been quite different in the mid ’60s to have had that type of technology. You talked about the thin base film, and that was a big change when that came through. Were there other major changes of that type of technology during the same time that you were trying to keep up with all that there was to do during the first days of the space race? We always laugh that every time we get good on our computer software now they change it, so you’re always in a learning curve. Did you experience a lot of the technological learning curves back then, or did that stay pretty standard?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 83.68988237170723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your deadline? Right now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If it was some kind of a test going on, some kind of an important test that was really time-critical, we would put that on first and run it. Then if it was something else that maybe wasn’t as time-critical, that would go on later. Sometimes a lot of it was just duplication. Making dupes of other PAO films or who knows what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m curious about your dealings with the astronauts. Did you train them at all, or did you work with them after they got back with the flight film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, way back we used to do some training with the astronauts. Then that was taken over by some group. I think these were contractors, they had something to do with the Astronaut Office. I’m not sure what directorate they were in. We knew these people and used to interface with them. They did the training. Of course, we would bring up pointers also, and things that we found out from pictures that had already been done, and say, “Well, if you can do this instead of that,” or, “Don’t do this anymore.”\\n\\n Then, after the mission pictures had been processed, we interfaced with the astronauts a lot. They would pick out certain pictures from their missions that they thought were the most salient features of the mission. We would put together press packages and motion picture. They would have a motion picture of the whole mission. I guess they still do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to catalog? Did you have to put the captions on the photos as well? Was that part of your duties?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 92.9887581907858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If it was some kind of a test going on, some kind of an important test that was really time-critical, we would put that on first and run it. Then if it was something else that maybe wasn’t as time-critical, that would go on later. Sometimes a lot of it was just duplication. Making dupes of other PAO films or who knows what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m curious about your dealings with the astronauts. Did you train them at all, or did you work with them after they got back with the flight film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, way back we used to do some training with the astronauts. Then that was taken over by some group. I think these were contractors, they had something to do with the Astronaut Office. I’m not sure what directorate they were in. We knew these people and used to interface with them. They did the training. Of course, we would bring up pointers also, and things that we found out from pictures that had already been done, and say, “Well, if you can do this instead of that,” or, “Don’t do this anymore.”\\n\\n Then, after the mission pictures had been processed, we interfaced with the astronauts a lot. They would pick out certain pictures from their missions that they thought were the most salient features of the mission. We would put together press packages and motion picture. They would have a motion picture of the whole mission. I guess they still do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to catalog? Did you have to put the captions on the photos as well? Was that part of your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, PAO did that. They printed all the stuff on the back of the pictures with those old mimeograph machines. They were blurry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those days in preparation for the first Moon landing, of what that you did in the lab. Was there anything different you did preparing for the flight films to come back?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 52, "return_to_go": 103.32084243420644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, way back we used to do some training with the astronauts. Then that was taken over by some group. I think these were contractors, they had something to do with the Astronaut Office. I’m not sure what directorate they were in. We knew these people and used to interface with them. They did the training. Of course, we would bring up pointers also, and things that we found out from pictures that had already been done, and say, “Well, if you can do this instead of that,” or, “Don’t do this anymore.”\\n\\n Then, after the mission pictures had been processed, we interfaced with the astronauts a lot. They would pick out certain pictures from their missions that they thought were the most salient features of the mission. We would put together press packages and motion picture. They would have a motion picture of the whole mission. I guess they still do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to catalog? Did you have to put the captions on the photos as well? Was that part of your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, PAO did that. They printed all the stuff on the back of the pictures with those old mimeograph machines. They were blurry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those days in preparation for the first Moon landing, of what that you did in the lab. Was there anything different you did preparing for the flight films to come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Now do you want to take this chronologically?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, let’s do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 63.104469492770065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\\n\\n [The following discussion also refers to photo numbers\\n\\n S69-62291\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S69-60424\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S69-60426\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S69-62292\\n\\n ] These are just some pictures from Pete [Charles P.] Conrad and “Flash” Gordon—Dick [Richard F.] Gordon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this is the Apollo 12 crew. Did you take on the same role during that mission as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for Apollo 11, Apollo 12, and Apollo 13, for which we still went into quarantine, and then they cut it short because they didn’t land on the Moon. Apollo 14 was our last one with Al [Alan B.] Shepard. This is Pete Conrad and Dick Gordon playing with some of the Moon rocks [photo number\\n\\n S69-62293\\n\\n ]. Right before we got out of quarantine, I would shoot a picture [photo number\\n\\n S69-63056\\n\\n ]. I’m never in any of the pictures because I’m the one who shoots it. That’s what my wife was saying. She says, “Well, where are you?” I said, “I’m not in there. I’m the guy they call in the newspaper NASA Photo!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Behind the camera."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So anyway here’s Al [Alan] Bean and all the crew [photo number\\n\\n S69-63056\\n\\n ]. This is Dr. Clarence [A.] Jernigan. I’m in touch with him too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a crew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.990538978956547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, up close and personal. He says, “Well, I need to get in some close formation practice,” or something like that. Then we came back from that trip, and I was over in Building 8 going down the stairs one day. His wife Beverly was coming up the stairs. She saw me, she started laughing already. She says, “Vance told me about what you said.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have another series of photos? Let’s see what else you got over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re going to whiz through all this stuff here I hope. Let’s see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years were you with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I retired I had 34½ years, and three years of that was military time. So 31½."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went in ’62 I think. Is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.76726553217394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re going to whiz through all this stuff here I hope. Let’s see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years were you with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I retired I had 34½ years, and three years of that was military time. So 31½."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went in ’62 I think. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember if it was ’61 or ’62. Somewhere around there. I think this picture is out at White Sands [photo number\\n\\n S82-29273\\n\\n ]. We were at Edwards expecting the Shuttle landing, of which flight I don’t remember. I got to be in charge of the photo effort at White Sands. As it turned out, the weather was so bad that they decided to go in and land at White Sands. There are some pictures from White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anna [L.] Fisher [M.D.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.741406146859934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I retired I had 34½ years, and three years of that was military time. So 31½."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went in ’62 I think. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember if it was ’61 or ’62. Somewhere around there. I think this picture is out at White Sands [photo number\\n\\n S82-29273\\n\\n ]. We were at Edwards expecting the Shuttle landing, of which flight I don’t remember. I got to be in charge of the photo effort at White Sands. As it turned out, the weather was so bad that they decided to go in and land at White Sands. There are some pictures from White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anna [L.] Fisher [M.D.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a picture with Anna Fisher [photo number\\n\\n TS-6\\n\\n ]. I got an award for the photographic effort at White Sands. As it turned out, not only was it the first landing, it was the only landing at White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it surely was a unique experience, because that was it, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.93489571873326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember if it was ’61 or ’62. Somewhere around there. I think this picture is out at White Sands [photo number\\n\\n S82-29273\\n\\n ]. We were at Edwards expecting the Shuttle landing, of which flight I don’t remember. I got to be in charge of the photo effort at White Sands. As it turned out, the weather was so bad that they decided to go in and land at White Sands. There are some pictures from White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anna [L.] Fisher [M.D.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a picture with Anna Fisher [photo number\\n\\n TS-6\\n\\n ]. I got an award for the photographic effort at White Sands. As it turned out, not only was it the first landing, it was the only landing at White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it surely was a unique experience, because that was it, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have so many of these awards. I could probably paper a room with them. I pulled out a couple that actually meant something. This was the idea that I came up with of using this old Kodak blanket for processing thin base film. That was a special award that they gave me for that.\\n\\n My other big big job was as a permanent party on the zero-gravity plane [KC-135] for 18½ years and had a lot of really fun experiences on there. I think I was on the zero-g plane every time we had a fire or a rapid decompression or an explosion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any kind of event."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.205145128384785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Got to be pretty good friends with [Margaret] Rhea Seddon and some of the girls. I became really close with the European astronauts. There’s Ulf Merbold, and Ernst Messerschmid, and Wubbo [J.] Ockels, who’s from the Netherlands, and Reinhard Furrer [photo number\\n\\n S84-47139\\n\\n ]. Since I speak German, I used to interface with them quite a bit. This was a gal, Stephie Wells [photo number\\n\\n S87-31871\\n\\n ], who was Bob [Robert J.] Williams’s assistant in the Zero-G Office for a while. She was in the National Guard and was a C-5A pilot [Galaxy airplane], the biggest airplane that we have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s a little bitty thing for a big airplane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She’s about five-foot-four, maybe. Over the years, we had every imaginable kind of experiment. Things that you would never even dream of. People would come up with some of the craziest experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this a video camera [photo number\\n\\n S86-36599\\n\\n ]? Did you go to video?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a video camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you kept moving from one medium to another."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.783494587094204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She’s about five-foot-four, maybe. Over the years, we had every imaginable kind of experiment. Things that you would never even dream of. People would come up with some of the craziest experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this a video camera [photo number\\n\\n S86-36599\\n\\n ]? Did you go to video?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a video camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you kept moving from one medium to another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes I did everything, stills, motion picture, video."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train yourself, or did you have some type of training when the new equipment came in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.64832731899356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a video camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you kept moving from one medium to another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes I did everything, stills, motion picture, video."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train yourself, or did you have some type of training when the new equipment came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just read the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just experimented and figured out how to make it work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 33.14608310986859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just read the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just experimented and figured out how to make it work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This is just horsing around [photo number\\n\\n S84-43036\\n\\n ]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was, I think if I remember correctly, a sled that they used on the ESA experiments, the European Space Agency [photo number\\n\\n S89-37526\\n\\n and\\n\\n S89-37528\\n\\n ]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself being an experiment as well? Did they test things on you, since you’d gone so many times?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.38453678874288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This is just horsing around [photo number\\n\\n S84-43036\\n\\n ]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was, I think if I remember correctly, a sled that they used on the ESA experiments, the European Space Agency [photo number\\n\\n S89-37526\\n\\n and\\n\\n S89-37528\\n\\n ]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself being an experiment as well? Did they test things on you, since you’d gone so many times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact the people from the Navy had a big ongoing vestibular study. They used to bring these people over I think from Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama]. They got different people to experiment on. They would bring guys that were from a seminary, because they didn’t drink or smoke, so it didn’t affect their baseline data.\\n\\n They had a spin chair in addition to a bunch of other tortures that they had. Some of these guys—we’d do two or three parabolas, and they’d be just sicker than a dog. Some of them were really susceptible. Why they even subjected themselves to this I have no idea. They must have paid them pretty well. There were a couple guys that were so sick, and of course we didn’t stop. We would do our 40 parabolas no matter what. A couple of the guys were so violently ill that after we landed, we had to open the cargo bay door, and we had to take them off in a forklift. They couldn’t even go down the ladder. One guy I remember, he just barfed all over himself, and oh jeez it was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you adapted okay to all the aircraft work that you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 40.9003842818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re Millikens, which we ran at 400 fps [frames per second]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other thing that I find interesting is—we’ve taken a tour of this aircraft. It’s not a cool plane to be in. So I imagine setting up took a while before you ever left the ground as well. Did you have to go out there hours before you were going to take off and set all this up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sometimes, if we had some really complicated things, we would go out and set up stuff the day before, or maybe the Friday before we were going to start flying on Monday.\\n\\n I don’t think that most people appreciated how much work there was involved. Every week it was a whole new world. People would come with different experiments and different requirements, and we had to build something all the time and make it work. Just all the electronics involved was daunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the lighting, because you had some restricted lighting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. See, we have extra lighting here [referring to photo]. It was very challenging every week. It was interesting though. It never got boring, that’s for sure. For this reason I really did enjoy flying on the zero-g plane. I didn’t tell anybody that because I thought they’d probably take me off of it if I did.\\n\\n Here’s [S.] Christa McAuliffe and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barbara [R.] Morgan."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.222649202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sometimes, if we had some really complicated things, we would go out and set up stuff the day before, or maybe the Friday before we were going to start flying on Monday.\\n\\n I don’t think that most people appreciated how much work there was involved. Every week it was a whole new world. People would come with different experiments and different requirements, and we had to build something all the time and make it work. Just all the electronics involved was daunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the lighting, because you had some restricted lighting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. See, we have extra lighting here [referring to photo]. It was very challenging every week. It was interesting though. It never got boring, that’s for sure. For this reason I really did enjoy flying on the zero-g plane. I didn’t tell anybody that because I thought they’d probably take me off of it if I did.\\n\\n Here’s [S.] Christa McAuliffe and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barbara [R.] Morgan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barbara Morgan [photo numbers\\n\\n S85-44833\\n\\n and\\n\\n S85-42475\\n\\n ]. I’m back here reloading the camera.\\n\\n [The following discussion also refers to photo numbers\\n\\n S78-31714\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31715\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31716\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31717\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31718\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31719\\n\\n ] Here’s my friend Marsha [S.] Ivins. These are different experiments that we were doing. This was some kind of a boot that they had with suction cups on it. We were trying that so you could, maybe, secure yourself somewhere in zero-g to perform different activities. This was an experiment with fire extinguishers for zero gravity. That’s some more of the shoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looks like putting on skates. Oh, the suction cups. I see them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 48.02516578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. See, we have extra lighting here [referring to photo]. It was very challenging every week. It was interesting though. It never got boring, that’s for sure. For this reason I really did enjoy flying on the zero-g plane. I didn’t tell anybody that because I thought they’d probably take me off of it if I did.\\n\\n Here’s [S.] Christa McAuliffe and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barbara [R.] Morgan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barbara Morgan [photo numbers\\n\\n S85-44833\\n\\n and\\n\\n S85-42475\\n\\n ]. I’m back here reloading the camera.\\n\\n [The following discussion also refers to photo numbers\\n\\n S78-31714\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31715\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31716\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31717\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31718\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31719\\n\\n ] Here’s my friend Marsha [S.] Ivins. These are different experiments that we were doing. This was some kind of a boot that they had with suction cups on it. We were trying that so you could, maybe, secure yourself somewhere in zero-g to perform different activities. This was an experiment with fire extinguishers for zero gravity. That’s some more of the shoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looks like putting on skates. Oh, the suction cups. I see them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then here are some with extensions on it so you could reach places that were too high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 52.2501842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barbara Morgan [photo numbers\\n\\n S85-44833\\n\\n and\\n\\n S85-42475\\n\\n ]. I’m back here reloading the camera.\\n\\n [The following discussion also refers to photo numbers\\n\\n S78-31714\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31715\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31716\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31717\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31718\\n\\n ,\\n\\n S78-31719\\n\\n ] Here’s my friend Marsha [S.] Ivins. These are different experiments that we were doing. This was some kind of a boot that they had with suction cups on it. We were trying that so you could, maybe, secure yourself somewhere in zero-g to perform different activities. This was an experiment with fire extinguishers for zero gravity. That’s some more of the shoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looks like putting on skates. Oh, the suction cups. I see them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then here are some with extensions on it so you could reach places that were too high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great picture of Marsha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00548:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 45.833538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then here are some with extensions on it so you could reach places that were too high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great picture of Marsha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. This is just a picture—we’re loading some Milliken cameras on the plane. This is an old zero-g picture [photo number\\n\\n S79-36845\\n\\n ]. Here’s Pinky [George D.] Nelson. This was one of these things where instead of doing 40 parabolas, we did 62 of them. Once in a while when we would do a whole bunch, we would shoot a picture of it like this. This is Don Griggs, who was the head of the Zero-G Office at that time. Then some years later, Bob Williams took over [photo number\\n\\n S79-35212\\n\\n ].\\n\\n I had a lot of interface with the European astronauts and also the Canadians. These are the Canadian astronauts, and this is some of the European crew here from one of our flights [photo number\\n\\n S85-44652\\n\\n ]. In fact Bobby Gray and I—the other guy that flew most of the time with me on the zero-g plane—we were the only ones invited to the Canadians’ splashdown party after the first Canadian astronaut, [Marc Garneau] the only one that flew.\\n\\n This was actually a quality increase [QI] [referring to award]. This isn’t the paper your wall kind. This was a QI for the zero-g support in 1978. I had logged, just for 1978, 103 flight hours on the zero-g plane alone. That isn’t taking into consideration the other aircraft we had and the T-38s. I logged 1,431 parabolas, and that was just for one year. I remember when I retired, somebody got out the old log, and they told me how many parabolas that I had done and how much zero-g time I had. They told me that I had more zero-g time than most of the astronauts that were running around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see that, adding that together."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.426543901521173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I asked my staff when I was leaving . . . I said, \"Look, the one thing I would like as a parting gift would be whatever President Obama signed to make me the ISOO Director.\" And apparently, what they found was a checkbox of some sort, just a [LAUGHS] . . . . So I'm still waiting to get a copy of that checkbox. But no. I was expecting at least a letter or some type of something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a checkbox, you know [LAUGHS]. So it's funny sometimes the way that works. I mean, the bigger the appointment, the less the recognition for it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Very little fanfare. Yeah [LAUGHS]. Interesting. Did you have to go to the White House when you became an SESer?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.029493223912414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I asked my staff when I was leaving . . . I said, \"Look, the one thing I would like as a parting gift would be whatever President Obama signed to make me the ISOO Director.\" And apparently, what they found was a checkbox of some sort, just a [LAUGHS] . . . . So I'm still waiting to get a copy of that checkbox. But no. I was expecting at least a letter or some type of something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a checkbox, you know [LAUGHS]. So it's funny sometimes the way that works. I mean, the bigger the appointment, the less the recognition for it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Very little fanfare. Yeah [LAUGHS]. Interesting. Did you have to go to the White House when you became an SESer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was an SESer at the DOJ. That career appointment travels with you from agency to agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting. Yeah, that's too bad. I would have liked that also, to have something from the President saying that you were approved."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.789497807299277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was an SESer at the DOJ. That career appointment travels with you from agency to agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting. Yeah, that's too bad. I would have liked that also, to have something from the President saying that you were approved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Checkbox. [LAUGHING]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first started at the National Archives, what were your first impressions?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.320367663332437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first started at the National Archives, what were your first impressions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the smallest agency I'd ever worked for. And I have to admit, I was stunned by just looking at ISOO—this was the insider's view—of how little technology we had and how stretched we were. I mean, we were a relatively small office and all the responsibilities . . . . It was funny, too. And I don't mean this to sound snarky at all, but when I got over there, we had to take a lot of training. And it's like, \"Look, most of this training is not germane to ISOO and what we do.\" But I understand the need to get assimilated and understand what the agency does. But I'm trying to figure out how an archivist double wraps something. It's like, you know, I don't . . . . [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Okay. All right. Fine, fine.” [LAUGHS] So yeah. It was a bit of a culture shock. I mean, at DOJ, I had three computers on my desk that were classified. I had my own classified phone. At ISOO, we had one classified terminal up in the SCIF [sensitive compartmented information facility] for the whole staff and one classified phone for the entire staff. So I went from living in a Manhattan penthouse to more of, I guess, a regular government place. But yeah, I think the biggest adjustment was just like, whoa. I mean, we are a small agency, and our budget reflects that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. It must have been quite a shock."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.800408514813817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the smallest agency I'd ever worked for. And I have to admit, I was stunned by just looking at ISOO—this was the insider's view—of how little technology we had and how stretched we were. I mean, we were a relatively small office and all the responsibilities . . . . It was funny, too. And I don't mean this to sound snarky at all, but when I got over there, we had to take a lot of training. And it's like, \"Look, most of this training is not germane to ISOO and what we do.\" But I understand the need to get assimilated and understand what the agency does. But I'm trying to figure out how an archivist double wraps something. It's like, you know, I don't . . . . [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Okay. All right. Fine, fine.” [LAUGHS] So yeah. It was a bit of a culture shock. I mean, at DOJ, I had three computers on my desk that were classified. I had my own classified phone. At ISOO, we had one classified terminal up in the SCIF [sensitive compartmented information facility] for the whole staff and one classified phone for the entire staff. So I went from living in a Manhattan penthouse to more of, I guess, a regular government place. But yeah, I think the biggest adjustment was just like, whoa. I mean, we are a small agency, and our budget reflects that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. It must have been quite a shock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite, yeah. Another thing, too . . . I mean, at the DOJ, we had secure video conferencing in 2000. And after 9/11, we were using it extensively. We still don't have it at AI. We still don't have it at ISOO. Yeah. [THROWS HANDS UP] It's 2024 now! You know, I mean . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think [it's] because there's just not enough resources? Not enough . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.556009460904242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Okay. All right. Fine, fine.” [LAUGHS] So yeah. It was a bit of a culture shock. I mean, at DOJ, I had three computers on my desk that were classified. I had my own classified phone. At ISOO, we had one classified terminal up in the SCIF [sensitive compartmented information facility] for the whole staff and one classified phone for the entire staff. So I went from living in a Manhattan penthouse to more of, I guess, a regular government place. But yeah, I think the biggest adjustment was just like, whoa. I mean, we are a small agency, and our budget reflects that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. It must have been quite a shock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite, yeah. Another thing, too . . . I mean, at the DOJ, we had secure video conferencing in 2000. And after 9/11, we were using it extensively. We still don't have it at AI. We still don't have it at ISOO. Yeah. [THROWS HANDS UP] It's 2024 now! You know, I mean . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think [it's] because there's just not enough resources? Not enough . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . money or something? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 30.617788289893603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite, yeah. Another thing, too . . . I mean, at the DOJ, we had secure video conferencing in 2000. And after 9/11, we were using it extensively. We still don't have it at AI. We still don't have it at ISOO. Yeah. [THROWS HANDS UP] It's 2024 now! You know, I mean . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think [it's] because there's just not enough resources? Not enough . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . money or something? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, before we get too far down the road, can you talk about what ISOO's mission is and why it's important?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.41981949058051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was always a challenge. Now, again, I always thought when I got to ISOO, it was an interesting place. We had a small, small staff, but it was balkanized in a very unusual way. It was balkanized by the way it was set up. For instance, . . . the controlled unclassified information people had very little to do with the classified people or had anything to do with the Public Interest Declassification Board. So ISOO was a small office that was almost three or four offices in one. And that created some friction among people, like, \"My work's more important than yours,\" or \"I need more resources than you do.\" And then, frankly, we had some people, I thought, who had been there too long. They were disgruntled. I would say, \"Well, okay, this is a big government. Why don't you go look for another job?\" \"Well, I'm too comfortable.\" \"But I mean, if you're going to chronically complain and not help to fix things, please go work somewhere else. We are too busy to constantly deal with your complaints. We can help you find something else.\" So it was necessary in a way, to have some attrition to get some people out. I always said I'd rather have 10 really good ones than I would 20 who are going to be a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in 2020, we finally got 100 percent on the EVS, 100-percent job satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It worked [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's extremely hard to do."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.577577211756125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in 2020, we finally got 100 percent on the EVS, 100-percent job satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It worked [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's extremely hard to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I don't miss that part of the job at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Always a fun time of year, right? [LAUGHS]"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.97508579084014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It worked [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's extremely hard to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I don't miss that part of the job at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Always a fun time of year, right? [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said that the office was part of NARA beginning somewhere probably around the mid-1980s. Today, do you think that NARA is the appropriate agency for this office?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.436579435452146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest stick I had was my annual report to the President on the health of the classification/declassification system, and we could call people out in that report and say, \"Look, 25 of these agencies are doing the right thing. This one over here refuses even to pick up the phone.\" You know, so you're called out publicly. And that report actually was cited by the Washington Post, the LA [Los Angeles] Times. I mean, it could get traction. But, you know, I think it would be better to have a more direct impact than having to go through reports cited by the press where you're publicly embarrassed. There should be an easier way to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that the office doesn't have enough authority, that it's not been given enough authority to really act upon these things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's got authority. But the authority, again, it's mostly . . . how can I put it? I had to go to the National Security Advisor or the President to actually get things if I really had an issue. That's the route I had to go. And the problem with that is just the bandwidth. If the National Security Advisor is over in Israel or somewhere else, is he really going to care that the DoD [Department of Defense], for instance, hypothetically, is not marking its documents correctly? I mean, it's too high up for me to have to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very good point. Yeah. If they've got so many other things on their plate, then what does this one agency not doing something right, where does that fall within their priorities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You almost need that middle man."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.526641278335983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You almost need that middle man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could write a letter to the Secretary of Defense and hope he or she or they does what they're supposed to do. But again, I mean, I'm mostly left to the goodwill of people to do what they should do. As I think if we've seen anything over the last few years, it's that this system that we have here in the classified, declassified, and all the rest, relies a lot on people following the rules and doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that they necessarily will, you know. And if they don't, then where are we? . . . I know when I left in June, the NSC was just getting back to beginning to reworking 13526, the executive order that governs classification and declassification. And among the topics were going to be exactly what we're talking about: where ISOO should be, what its authority should be, should some of its duties be scaled back? I mean, do you really need it to be in charge of this, or should it really focus on a few things that it can do really well? There are all sorts of philosophical, even existential questions in a way, about what this office should be. What happened over time was its responsibilities grew by accretion, like, \"We have a new program. Okay. Who are we going to put in charge of it? Oh, okay. ISOO!\" I mean, there wasn't a whole lot of thought sometimes given to what that meant in terms of resourcing and staffing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's the government. It's the nature of it. Things have to be done, and some of them are great, and some of them are like, \"Oh Christ.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just these new teams or councils or whatever. They create it, and they just throw it on ISOO's plate."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 22.00819910905677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's the government. It's the nature of it. Things have to be done, and some of them are great, and some of them are like, \"Oh Christ.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just these new teams or councils or whatever. They create it, and they just throw it on ISOO's plate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And the worst thing you can have in the government is an unfunded mandate, where you get more responsibilities, but you're not given the money by Congress to carry it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a classic case. We were constantly afflicted by that where we'd get some congressman, you know . . . God almighty! I mean, after having worked on the Hill and seen how legislation is done, I realized how dangerous it can be sometimes when some staffer does this. And it's like, \"Wait a minute. You just gave us this, and you didn't give us any funding at all to be able to implement this. And that means that we've got to rob Peter to pay Paul, or just not do some things that we're supposed to be doing, because now we have to do this.\" And so it's fascinating, really. I mean, now that I'm six, seven months away from it, you get more of a perspective on this stuff. And I have a hell of a lot of respect for ISOO and its people and also the National Archives for having all this stuff to do, and it's so poorly funded and, just, it's ridiculous. It's really absurd."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what would you see as your primary responsibility that should be kept as ISOO's mission? And what else would you get rid of, I guess, in an ideal world?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.7553857568057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it didn't take much to fail because of all the exemptions that were written into the executive order. I always thought they should be much more circumscribed. And also, too, there was a big argument that was going on when I left—and it's one that has to be held—is, okay, if we've got X number of people and X number of dollars devoted to this stuff, and that's all we're going to get, shouldn't we have prioritization? Shouldn't we prioritize which documents we think should be declassified first because they are the most important, whatever that is? The automatic declassification system is expensive, and it was also declassifying a lot of stuff that no one wants or certainly the public at large isn’t interested in. But then the question became: If we're going to have a prioritization system, who should be the one prioritizing? Should it be the agencies? Should it be the public interest groups? Should it be the National Archives? The American Historical Society? So that was a question that, to my knowledge, is still left hanging. I don't know exactly what this administration, if any, is going to come up with. But I think the two ways out of this morass, it seems to me, is prioritization and then the application eventually of some type of artificial intelligence which can go through this stuff a lot faster than we can by hand. But I don't know given how much all this is likely going to cost whether applying AI [artificial intelligence] to this is realistic or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people think it's going to fix everything. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll see. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Exactly. That's going to take a while. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of the executive order with the automatic declassification and some of these other executive orders, does ISOO work on these orders, on the language? Do they have input on the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.61709528533967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll see. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Exactly. That's going to take a while. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of the executive order with the automatic declassification and some of these other executive orders, does ISOO work on these orders, on the language? Do they have input on the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We have a lot of impact on it. In fact, when I was the Director—and I assume it's still going on now—we were invited to all the NSC’s meetings that were drafting these, redrafting these orders or reconsidering them. Ellen Knight, who I guess is still running the NSC's reformation processes, is an ISOO veteran. She worked for me for a while, and long before I got there, she worked at ISOO. So there's a very close working relationship between ISOO and the National Security Council on this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, I know you said that ISOO doesn't really have a stick in terms of when you are trying to force agencies to implement some of these things."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.685661428155186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of the executive order with the automatic declassification and some of these other executive orders, does ISOO work on these orders, on the language? Do they have input on the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We have a lot of impact on it. In fact, when I was the Director—and I assume it's still going on now—we were invited to all the NSC’s meetings that were drafting these, redrafting these orders or reconsidering them. Ellen Knight, who I guess is still running the NSC's reformation processes, is an ISOO veteran. She worked for me for a while, and long before I got there, she worked at ISOO. So there's a very close working relationship between ISOO and the National Security Council on this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, I know you said that ISOO doesn't really have a stick in terms of when you are trying to force agencies to implement some of these things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In an executive order, do you see that there's room for improvement there? Or is there something that would make that better, that would improve that process so that you would have a stick?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.37565116006327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's hard to make them do something. Right? So . . . very difficult to get that stick, I guess, in our field [too]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if you are from an underfunded agency. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, let's see here. What was your role in the Public Interest Declassification Board? Can you talk about that a little bit?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.981120011572871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't want to speak about President Trump’s legal case. But we are aware that this has been a problem in the government where high-ranking officials take government records they shouldn't. And, again, I think most of this could be solved by a robust training program, and also when people leave, going in and reminding them that \"you signed a non-disclosure agreement and that this stuff that's not yours stays here.\" But that's resources. You know, that's people going out and actually sitting down with these folks and going through it with them, and it's hands-on stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's one thing that we always stress, too, in our records management inspections, doing 1: the training so everyone knows what their responsibilities are, and then 2: those exit briefings. So I wonder then if those aren't being conducted, say at the White House level, the EOP [Executive Office of the President] level, or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be damned surprised, but some White Houses are better at this than others. I mean, you get the sense of having junior staffers packing up a lot of stuff and this and that, and whether they know what they're doing or . . . . One gets the sense it's kind of chaotic at the end of an administration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but it's something that should be formalized, and it's something that should be stressed. And when people come in and go to something like the White House to work, no matter whether you're sitting in the Oval Office itself or whether you're a staffer far removed from the circles of power, as long as you have access to classified information, it comes with rules and with regulations. And, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the executive orders. I mean, they apply to everybody, you know, or they don't apply at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when these things happen, when you get word that classified records were found in somebody's papers . . . so that's not about necessarily changing policy that ISOO is putting out, because [the requirements are] already in policy. It's just they're not implementing them."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.534577790636524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be damned surprised, but some White Houses are better at this than others. I mean, you get the sense of having junior staffers packing up a lot of stuff and this and that, and whether they know what they're doing or . . . . One gets the sense it's kind of chaotic at the end of an administration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but it's something that should be formalized, and it's something that should be stressed. And when people come in and go to something like the White House to work, no matter whether you're sitting in the Oval Office itself or whether you're a staffer far removed from the circles of power, as long as you have access to classified information, it comes with rules and with regulations. And, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the executive orders. I mean, they apply to everybody, you know, or they don't apply at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when these things happen, when you get word that classified records were found in somebody's papers . . . so that's not about necessarily changing policy that ISOO is putting out, because [the requirements are] already in policy. It's just they're not implementing them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the good news is we have had a robust training program in ISOO with librarians and archivists in various places, for instance, the Hoover Institution, Yale, places like that. They're very much aware of the implementing regulations and what they're supposed to do if they get things they shouldn't have. I mean, our best defense right now, until we can get a wider training program in place and people are going to actually attend the training and abide by it, is to alert the other side that, \"Hey, if classified material comes your way . . .\" we can handle this. I mean, it's not the end of the world. We just want it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Just give it back to us."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.260641989596138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but it's something that should be formalized, and it's something that should be stressed. And when people come in and go to something like the White House to work, no matter whether you're sitting in the Oval Office itself or whether you're a staffer far removed from the circles of power, as long as you have access to classified information, it comes with rules and with regulations. And, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the executive orders. I mean, they apply to everybody, you know, or they don't apply at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when these things happen, when you get word that classified records were found in somebody's papers . . . so that's not about necessarily changing policy that ISOO is putting out, because [the requirements are] already in policy. It's just they're not implementing them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the good news is we have had a robust training program in ISOO with librarians and archivists in various places, for instance, the Hoover Institution, Yale, places like that. They're very much aware of the implementing regulations and what they're supposed to do if they get things they shouldn't have. I mean, our best defense right now, until we can get a wider training program in place and people are going to actually attend the training and abide by it, is to alert the other side that, \"Hey, if classified material comes your way . . .\" we can handle this. I mean, it's not the end of the world. We just want it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Just give it back to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "ISOO does have some sort of training out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.178491099551263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the good news is we have had a robust training program in ISOO with librarians and archivists in various places, for instance, the Hoover Institution, Yale, places like that. They're very much aware of the implementing regulations and what they're supposed to do if they get things they shouldn't have. I mean, our best defense right now, until we can get a wider training program in place and people are going to actually attend the training and abide by it, is to alert the other side that, \"Hey, if classified material comes your way . . .\" we can handle this. I mean, it's not the end of the world. We just want it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Just give it back to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "ISOO does have some sort of training out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. You said you just needed more robust training that people could attend?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.67714950561884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. You said you just needed more robust training that people could attend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would certainly be one important step. I don't know whether that's the only step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, for instance, you know, when you're an original classification authority, you're supposed to have annual training. . . . I mean, you go back to the things like the Clinton emails and stuff. Did she have—I mean, that was before my time. But I mean, look, how many times have you heard somebody say, \"I'm either too important for the training or I don't have time for it? What are they going to do to me? I'm Secretary of X.\" So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or it could be something where, you know, they just have to keep hitting the next button through the training until they hit the [end] or something."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.52734506866523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, for instance, you know, when you're an original classification authority, you're supposed to have annual training. . . . I mean, you go back to the things like the Clinton emails and stuff. Did she have—I mean, that was before my time. But I mean, look, how many times have you heard somebody say, \"I'm either too important for the training or I don't have time for it? What are they going to do to me? I'm Secretary of X.\" So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or it could be something where, you know, they just have to keep hitting the next button through the training until they hit the [end] or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. “You're done.” And that's the end of it. I mean, I suppose hope springs eternal. But if one good thing comes out of all the stuff that we've been through the last year or even two years, it's more of a spotlight on this issue. And perhaps there'll be a movement to take all this much more seriously than it has been heretofore, that new administrations coming in, that this type of responsibility and training will be integral to their operation. We can get away from some of this ambiguity—\"This doesn't apply to me,\" or \"I'm not going to get to this.\" No, no, you are going to do it. And it's just the way it is. So we'll see. I mean, you know, often the history lesson in all this is it's a big issue for a year or two, and then that's the end of it. You don't hear about it. It just drops off. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we shall see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because there were three instances that were very high profile, right, with the Presidents, and the Vice President, having all three of them come out at once [indicating] essentially that this was an issue, I think people really understood that this was more widespread than they had thought. It wasn't just one person or one office or something like that. It was a bigger issue. So, we'll see if the training helps or . . . yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.538600056577545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well said. It's not an easy task. I look back on my career, and I wouldn't change much of it, but I do leave with a sense of frustration and just kind of . . . I'm not sure how this fight is going to end in terms of whether or not we can recapture some of the trust and faith that's been lost in the government and especially by trying to better educate our citizens and get this stuff out and just kind of, what they say, \"Sunlight is the best disinfectant,\" right? And so I don't know whether we're going to get there or not, especially the way so much classified information is being generated now. There is already so much out there. And I really worry that if the fight isn't already over, it's getting close to it, because we've neglected this system for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's kind of scary to think about how far it's gone the other way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Right. And so, again, there may be a magic bullet of some sort with AI or maybe things that we can't even think of now that we're going to use to revolutionize how we classify and declassify national security information. I hope so. But until it becomes part of these agencies' missions to educate people, I don't think we're going to reach it. I think a lot of it's just you need to have the will to do it. You need to even have a strong stomach for it, too. Some of this stuff may be quite unpleasant, quite embarrassing, things that you wish hadn't happened, but here it is. We did this. We did that, and shouldn't have done that, but we did this. This went really well. This one was awful. Let's just deal with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it's not going away. So the sooner that you deal with it, you can move on, but . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a question about, and I know that you've mentioned this already, but just being the chair of the National Industrial Security Program Policy Advisory Committee."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.709555618419493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Right. And so, again, there may be a magic bullet of some sort with AI or maybe things that we can't even think of now that we're going to use to revolutionize how we classify and declassify national security information. I hope so. But until it becomes part of these agencies' missions to educate people, I don't think we're going to reach it. I think a lot of it's just you need to have the will to do it. You need to even have a strong stomach for it, too. Some of this stuff may be quite unpleasant, quite embarrassing, things that you wish hadn't happened, but here it is. We did this. We did that, and shouldn't have done that, but we did this. This went really well. This one was awful. Let's just deal with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it's not going away. So the sooner that you deal with it, you can move on, but . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a question about, and I know that you've mentioned this already, but just being the chair of the National Industrial Security Program Policy Advisory Committee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The NISPPAC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering . . . I'm sorry?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.456241504221596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The NISPPAC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering . . . I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The NISPPAC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the acronym for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I'm wondering, what is the national industrial base? What does that even mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.812666606075622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's also covering these private companies that are also doing business with the government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What it does is, it mostly is trying to help the Department of Defense, who was the executive agent, administer that Industrial Security Program. We were in an advisory capacity. And so we would say, \"Look, you need this, this, and this,\" or \"We think this could help you.\" They would come to us and say, \"Okay, we need you to issue an ISOO Notice on what kind of SCIFs or what kind of containers or things that they need to use” and stuff like that. But . . . industrial security was becoming more and more important as time was going by. But again, it goes to show what you and I were talking about when we first started, about how many responsibilities ISOO has. I mean, I could spend a career on industrial security challenges, much less on the rest of it. Now, again, there's some overlap between the . . . executive orders on national classification/declassification, industrial security. But there are also some nuances in that stuff that aren't. And so I had, I think, two people working on that. And then finally at the end—one. I mean, that's what we had. And so, it's another one of these questions. What should ISOO's role be in that? And so should it be taken away from us, because we can only dedicate X number of resources to it? Should it be expanded? Should that be one of our key missions? I don't know, but those are the kind of things that should be discussed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when that order was written, ISOO was put in, but there was no real thought about resources or staff or what this means. And if that executive order is going to be overhauled, which in my view it must be, it's going to be a heavy lift to do that. How many people can we dedicate to help DoD and the White House rewrite that order?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. There's a lot that ISOO is responsible for and not near enough people and resources to do that mission, to do all of that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.889078196969411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is. It's funny. And you know this yourself after being in government: you have very little time to be reflective on things and sit back and say, \"Okay, wait a minute. Does this really make sense?” Nobody says, \"Time out. I mean, this is a bridge too far.\" It's like a race car, you know. We designed it, but now that we actually took it out on the track and are driving it, the damn thing doesn't work or its wheels are wobbling . . . not what we thought they were going to do. But it just takes a lot to push it off the track and say, \"You know what? This needs a serious overhaul.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it just keeps going and going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Instead of taking the off-ramp, you just keep going straight, even though you know it's not working, but . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Somehow, some way, it'll fix itself, you know? [RAISES HANDS AND LAUGHS] It's not the way it works. Yeah. That's not the way it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of your last day, I think you said you retired June 30th of 2023?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.210086885521568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it just keeps going and going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Instead of taking the off-ramp, you just keep going straight, even though you know it's not working, but . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Somehow, some way, it'll fix itself, you know? [RAISES HANDS AND LAUGHS] It's not the way it works. Yeah. That's not the way it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of your last day, I think you said you retired June 30th of 2023?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2023. Yeah. I've been retired for, what, six months now? Six-and-a-half months? Something like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right, so do you remember your last days there? Did they throw a party or do anything for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.30874924138465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2023. Yeah. I've been retired for, what, six months now? Six-and-a-half months? Something like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right, so do you remember your last days there? Did they throw a party or do anything for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I specifically did not want any of that stuff, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like a cremation, you know [LAUGHS]. Just be done with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] Make a clean break."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.44451949609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I'm working on a third book, and I go to the gym six days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really? Another one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you! Yeah. That's great!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of book are you working on?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.382799440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you! Yeah. That's great!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of book are you working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is a double murder committed by the Ku Klux Klan in Louisiana in 1922."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ooh. That's gotta be interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.203110489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of book are you working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is a double murder committed by the Ku Klux Klan in Louisiana in 1922."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ooh. That's gotta be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The one before was a triple murder in the coal fields of Pennsylvania in 1969. I got a master's at Oxford, and I have a law degree. I'm a lawyer. So I try to do books that have an interest in both fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's really interesting. I'll have to look that up and get a copy."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.11456721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is a double murder committed by the Ku Klux Klan in Louisiana in 1922."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ooh. That's gotta be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The one before was a triple murder in the coal fields of Pennsylvania in 1969. I got a master's at Oxford, and I have a law degree. I'm a lawyer. So I try to do books that have an interest in both fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's really interesting. I'll have to look that up and get a copy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood Runs Coal. C-O-A-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that sounds really interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.127296900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The one before was a triple murder in the coal fields of Pennsylvania in 1969. I got a master's at Oxford, and I have a law degree. I'm a lawyer. So I try to do books that have an interest in both fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's really interesting. I'll have to look that up and get a copy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood Runs Coal. C-O-A-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that sounds really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how I spend my days. I mean, now I'm fighting the FBI over FOIA stuff, you know? So it's like I'm part of the problem now, although none of this stuff is classified. [LAUGHS] Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you're keeping yourself very busy, so that's good to hear."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.141441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood Runs Coal. C-O-A-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that sounds really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how I spend my days. I mean, now I'm fighting the FBI over FOIA stuff, you know? So it's like I'm part of the problem now, although none of this stuff is classified. [LAUGHS] Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you're keeping yourself very busy, so that's good to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, again, I don't miss some of the inter-agency fighting and some of the bureaucratic stuff. I mean, I meant what I said if Moynihan were to come back today, it would take me about five minutes to brief him up since we were working on this same stuff in the late 90s. So . . . [LAUGHS] Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's pretty sad to have the same issue that you've had for decades. So, yeah. Was there anything else that you wanted to talk about or bring up that we haven't covered so far?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's crazy. I mean, it's absolutely insane. It's dangerous to the country, and it just doesn't make any sense. But on we go. Now we're possibly expanding the war in the Middle East. We've got all sorts of other issues that supersede some of this stuff. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, priorities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always gets put back on the back burner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know what it's going to take. I mean, perhaps some of this legal attention that's been focused on this system will highlight some of the things that need to be done, but I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah, let's just leave it at that. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, people can say anything, but the actual implementation part is completely different."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always gets put back on the back burner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know what it's going to take. I mean, perhaps some of this legal attention that's been focused on this system will highlight some of the things that need to be done, but I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah, let's just leave it at that. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, people can say anything, but the actual implementation part is completely different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's actually the money that it's going to take to overhaul this stuff and try to get it where it needs to be. But, you know, like I say, I'm just retired. You know? [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] You don't have to worry about it."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00032:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know what it's going to take. I mean, perhaps some of this legal attention that's been focused on this system will highlight some of the things that need to be done, but I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah, let's just leave it at that. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, people can say anything, but the actual implementation part is completely different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's actually the money that it's going to take to overhaul this stuff and try to get it where it needs to be. But, you know, like I say, I'm just retired. You know? [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] You don't have to worry about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. I've got the Shreveport Journal here from 1922. So that's what I'm working on today. So, you know [LAUGHS]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fun! [LAUGHS] Okay. Well, hey, I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording now. I just want to thank you for doing this interview with us today. Super interesting! I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording, and then if you could just hang on for one moment, I'll tell you about the rest of the process."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00401:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.815389329000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, go ahead. Anybody?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that in your early career as a test subject you went through some anomalies and some close calls. What close calls if you could say happened in the NASA development of suits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was an incident when Jim [James C.] LeBlanc was in an altitude chamber when a hose connector disconnected from a chamber ECS [Environmental Control System].\\n\\n Close calls at NASA that I was aware of, I think I wouldn’t really call it a close call but Bob Crippen lost suit pressure in a water tank. I can’t think of any other. Well, we did have a test subject in our lab was buttoned up in a suit, and he got hypoxia from breathing hard because he was confined in a small place, small volume, and it was an anxious time. We had to actually physically remove him from the suit. I won’t mention his name but we all know who he is. It was not an astronaut, it was a test subject. I can’t think of any others unless anybody else might know of one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Was there an incident where] they ripped a suit coming back in or going back to the back on orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. They might have ripped the outside cover layer, but I wouldn’t call that a close call. That was in Gemini I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the Apollo 1 fire, but that’s not really a suit thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00401:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.572654810000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was an incident when Jim [James C.] LeBlanc was in an altitude chamber when a hose connector disconnected from a chamber ECS [Environmental Control System].\\n\\n Close calls at NASA that I was aware of, I think I wouldn’t really call it a close call but Bob Crippen lost suit pressure in a water tank. I can’t think of any other. Well, we did have a test subject in our lab was buttoned up in a suit, and he got hypoxia from breathing hard because he was confined in a small place, small volume, and it was an anxious time. We had to actually physically remove him from the suit. I won’t mention his name but we all know who he is. It was not an astronaut, it was a test subject. I can’t think of any others unless anybody else might know of one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Was there an incident where] they ripped a suit coming back in or going back to the back on orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. They might have ripped the outside cover layer, but I wouldn’t call that a close call. That was in Gemini I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the Apollo 1 fire, but that’s not really a suit thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the suits were part of the fire in Apollo 1 but they didn’t cause the fire. They didn’t provide protection either. I think those were the close calls that I can remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other questions?\n\nJim, I wanted to see if you could share some information about the legacy of the CO2 removal systems in the life support when the suits were developed. Some of the thoughts that were going into why we chose certain things to go into the portable life support system, particularly if you remember anything associated with the CO2 removal systems."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00401:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 18.414060900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. They might have ripped the outside cover layer, but I wouldn’t call that a close call. That was in Gemini I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the Apollo 1 fire, but that’s not really a suit thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the suits were part of the fire in Apollo 1 but they didn’t cause the fire. They didn’t provide protection either. I think those were the close calls that I can remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other questions?\n\nJim, I wanted to see if you could share some information about the legacy of the CO2 removal systems in the life support when the suits were developed. Some of the thoughts that were going into why we chose certain things to go into the portable life support system, particularly if you remember anything associated with the CO2 removal systems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CO2 removal? I think the technology that existed at the time for CO2 removal was lithium hydroxide [LiOH]. That was pretty prevalent throughout industry. It was used successfully in submarines before they went to an electrolysis system. I think it was just in the early part of the program that was the experienced technology that people were familiar with and had confidence in. I didn’t work life support that heavily. I won’t call myself an expert in that field in other words, but the use of lithium hydroxide in the Apollo system required the use of a special grade of lithium hydroxide that provided the life capability of the cartridge that we used in the Apollo PLSS. There was a lot of work and involvement to establish the criteria for acceptance of drums of LiOH that came from the contractor that made it before it was used not only in the suit ECS but also in the Command Module and the LM. Pretty much used all the same life support system specifications for lithium hydroxide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you comment on the contrast between the US suits and Russian suits? Maybe even Chinese suits?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00401:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in any of the politics of that. I knew they were working on it. NASA knew they were working on doing a space walk. I’m sure at the higher levels there was concern about who would be first. But you’ve got to recognize we were so busy just doing what we were doing to fly the first flight when we did and developing the suit when we did that that wasn’t a factor in our work really. Not until we were told, “You’ve got a new job. We’re going to make this and we’re going to do it quick and we’re going to keep it restricted info,” did it become apparent to us that we were in a contest. But the contest was over. They’d already done their space walk with [Alexey] Leonov. So at the working level I don’t think it was much of a factor. I’m sure the managers were concerned about it because it didn’t look good to the world, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the call to do it on that particular flight. Were we positioned either not to do it or to do it and then there was a go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t privy to those conversations. I’m sorry. I was just a working level section head at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Busy working section head."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, very busy. I was balancing the contractor’s work and our internal work and budgets and schedule and performance management of the people, all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot going on those years of Gemini."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00401:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t privy to those conversations. I’m sorry. I was just a working level section head at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Busy working section head."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, very busy. I was balancing the contractor’s work and our internal work and budgets and schedule and performance management of the people, all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot going on those years of Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and raising a family at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we don’t have any other questions—there’s one.\n\nI understand that you’ve done numerous presentations and given numerous interviews sharing the information about the suit with the public. You even met with the queen of England during her first visit here at JSC. What kind of impact do you think it would make today, sharing this information with people outside the space industry?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.974528476589077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was also in international relations. That's why. I wrote an undergraduate thesis and based on my undergraduate thesis, that's why they awarded me the free one year of graduate school. They liked it. So I completed a year of graduate school and then I had two job offers, but my mother needed financial assistance. And she asked me if I would come to Toledo where she was living and help her with her finances. It was not my first choice, but I did go to Toledo and I worked for two years in technical development for a glass company, and I paid off all of my mother's debts. And then I joined the Peace Corps because I had heard about the Peace Corps as soon as it was announced by John Kennedy and Sargent Shriver. And I knew it was something I wanted to do because I had this great interest in international relations and travel abroad and work abroad. So I went into the Peace Corps. And that's pretty much what I did before joining."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. And as you say, your major interest in joining was because of your background in international relations and travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Plus, in the military, I served at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and also Munich, Germany, so my German experience really, really intensified my desire to see the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps? You mentioned it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when it was announced by Kennedy and Shriver, it was, I knew immediately that, I think that was in 1961. I knew immediately as what I wanted to do, but I still had to help my mother get out of debt. So in 1962, with as I felt that I could leave and go into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the process at that time for joining the Peace Corps? Do you remember the application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.19392052954342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Plus, in the military, I served at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and also Munich, Germany, so my German experience really, really intensified my desire to see the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps? You mentioned it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when it was announced by Kennedy and Shriver, it was, I knew immediately that, I think that was in 1961. I knew immediately as what I wanted to do, but I still had to help my mother get out of debt. So in 1962, with as I felt that I could leave and go into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the process at that time for joining the Peace Corps? Do you remember the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. I remember applying. And being notified that I was accepted and I was to report to, I think it was New York, for orientation. And then down to Puerto Rico for four months of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take between your applying and your being accepted, was it drawn out or a fairly quick?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.437689477270466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when it was announced by Kennedy and Shriver, it was, I knew immediately that, I think that was in 1961. I knew immediately as what I wanted to do, but I still had to help my mother get out of debt. So in 1962, with as I felt that I could leave and go into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the process at that time for joining the Peace Corps? Do you remember the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. I remember applying. And being notified that I was accepted and I was to report to, I think it was New York, for orientation. And then down to Puerto Rico for four months of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take between your applying and your being accepted, was it drawn out or a fairly quick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly quick. I don't recall. It's been 55 years or more, but I think it was fairly quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you at the time have a particular area of the world or a country you were interested in serving in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.70854386363385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. I remember applying. And being notified that I was accepted and I was to report to, I think it was New York, for orientation. And then down to Puerto Rico for four months of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take between your applying and your being accepted, was it drawn out or a fairly quick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly quick. I don't recall. It's been 55 years or more, but I think it was fairly quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you at the time have a particular area of the world or a country you were interested in serving in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was interested in the Far East and it was a surprise when I was offered the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you react to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.898382070704276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly quick. I don't recall. It's been 55 years or more, but I think it was fairly quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you at the time have a particular area of the world or a country you were interested in serving in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was interested in the Far East and it was a surprise when I was offered the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you react to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little disappointed, but still I thought, well, I've never been to Latin America before, except for northern Mexico. So, yeah, alright. I was willing to go and check it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had any language training before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.998202300782529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was interested in the Far East and it was a surprise when I was offered the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you react to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little disappointed, but still I thought, well, I've never been to Latin America before, except for northern Mexico. So, yeah, alright. I was willing to go and check it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had any language training before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Spanish. I'd taken a few courses in German, but not in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family, how did they react to the decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.220224778647253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little disappointed, but still I thought, well, I've never been to Latin America before, except for northern Mexico. So, yeah, alright. I was willing to go and check it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had any language training before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Spanish. I'd taken a few courses in German, but not in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family, how did they react to the decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just my mother and since her debts were paid, she had really no reason for asking me to stick around. And my brother and my brother-in-law and sister were living nearby, and they had their own life to live. So I was pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And giving you had been in the military and back to grad school, how old were you when you started Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.355805309608058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Spanish. I'd taken a few courses in German, but not in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family, how did they react to the decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just my mother and since her debts were paid, she had really no reason for asking me to stick around. And my brother and my brother-in-law and sister were living nearby, and they had their own life to live. So I was pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And giving you had been in the military and back to grad school, how old were you when you started Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, uh, just a minute. I was 28 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a bit older than some of the others, or was there a range of age in your training class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.617561455120065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just my mother and since her debts were paid, she had really no reason for asking me to stick around. And my brother and my brother-in-law and sister were living nearby, and they had their own life to live. So I was pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And giving you had been in the military and back to grad school, how old were you when you started Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, uh, just a minute. I was 28 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a bit older than some of the others, or was there a range of age in your training class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say most of them were younger than me because they were primarily fresh out of college. In fact, some had not even gone to college. And but yet we did have seniors in the group, older people. So I was. And we did have some older veterans in our group, military veterans. So but I was, I'd say, among the middle upper age group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we started the interview, you mentioned to me some rather unique trainees that were also there, through a judge, I guess, was given options. You mentioned a judge that gave some of the trainees an option to go to jail or go to the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.908401616800072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, uh, just a minute. I was 28 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a bit older than some of the others, or was there a range of age in your training class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say most of them were younger than me because they were primarily fresh out of college. In fact, some had not even gone to college. And but yet we did have seniors in the group, older people. So I was. And we did have some older veterans in our group, military veterans. So but I was, I'd say, among the middle upper age group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we started the interview, you mentioned to me some rather unique trainees that were also there, through a judge, I guess, was given options. You mentioned a judge that gave some of the trainees an option to go to jail or go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We had a variety of Peace Corps recruits and two men had been juveniles, and the court had to give them an option of going to jail, incarceration, or joining the Peace Corps. That's what I heard. So I can't vouch for that as being truthful, but this is what I heard. They did not last more than a week after we arrived in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the training you had in Puerto Rico was in the Outward Bound camps in the rainforest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.898224018666747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say most of them were younger than me because they were primarily fresh out of college. In fact, some had not even gone to college. And but yet we did have seniors in the group, older people. So I was. And we did have some older veterans in our group, military veterans. So but I was, I'd say, among the middle upper age group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we started the interview, you mentioned to me some rather unique trainees that were also there, through a judge, I guess, was given options. You mentioned a judge that gave some of the trainees an option to go to jail or go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We had a variety of Peace Corps recruits and two men had been juveniles, and the court had to give them an option of going to jail, incarceration, or joining the Peace Corps. That's what I heard. So I can't vouch for that as being truthful, but this is what I heard. They did not last more than a week after we arrived in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the training you had in Puerto Rico was in the Outward Bound camps in the rainforest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two months of Outward Bound training up in the mountains and then we had two more months at the University of Puerto Rico for our regular training. During the Outward Bound training, though, we did have classes in Spanish, but at the university we concentrated on what we were supposed to do in country, which is, in my group, is being trained for rural community development. The other half of my group was being trained for English teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Outward Bound portion, I'm just curious, given there were veterans in the group versus younger people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.998026687407496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We had a variety of Peace Corps recruits and two men had been juveniles, and the court had to give them an option of going to jail, incarceration, or joining the Peace Corps. That's what I heard. So I can't vouch for that as being truthful, but this is what I heard. They did not last more than a week after we arrived in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the training you had in Puerto Rico was in the Outward Bound camps in the rainforest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two months of Outward Bound training up in the mountains and then we had two more months at the University of Puerto Rico for our regular training. During the Outward Bound training, though, we did have classes in Spanish, but at the university we concentrated on what we were supposed to do in country, which is, in my group, is being trained for rural community development. The other half of my group was being trained for English teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Outward Bound portion, I'm just curious, given there were veterans in the group versus younger people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that play out given your military experience doing Outward Bound versus some of the other members of the training class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.030828665458763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your instructors Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The instructors were good. But I am not talented when it comes to picking up languages. So I did the best I could. Other people, several people in our group could already speak Spanish before we even arrived. So for them, it was simple. For me, it was more challenging trying to learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they bring Dominican instructors over or were using Puerto Rican?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all the instructors were local Puerto Ricans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the rural community development technical training? What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.812031850509737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The instructors were good. But I am not talented when it comes to picking up languages. So I did the best I could. Other people, several people in our group could already speak Spanish before we even arrived. So for them, it was simple. For me, it was more challenging trying to learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they bring Dominican instructors over or were using Puerto Rican?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all the instructors were local Puerto Ricans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the rural community development technical training? What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting. They sent half of our group, the English teachers, over to the country about two weeks before us, and they kept the community developers in Puerto Rico for additional community development training. And we went out and we met Puerto Rican professionals who were doing community development work in Puerto Rico. And basically, we'd sit with them in community circles when they were lecturing the local community and cooperating and in community development training. And so we listened in and we tried to learn as much as we could. And then we visited rural homes and people and talked to them to see if they could give us any suggestions and ideals and how to deal with the rural people when we were meeting with them to get acquainted. And it was a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were any films or texts that were used or mostly lecture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.680035389455263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all the instructors were local Puerto Ricans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the rural community development technical training? What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting. They sent half of our group, the English teachers, over to the country about two weeks before us, and they kept the community developers in Puerto Rico for additional community development training. And we went out and we met Puerto Rican professionals who were doing community development work in Puerto Rico. And basically, we'd sit with them in community circles when they were lecturing the local community and cooperating and in community development training. And so we listened in and we tried to learn as much as we could. And then we visited rural homes and people and talked to them to see if they could give us any suggestions and ideals and how to deal with the rural people when we were meeting with them to get acquainted. And it was a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were any films or texts that were used or mostly lecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly lectures and mostly on the job with the rural community developer in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training adequately prepared you for your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.644483766061404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting. They sent half of our group, the English teachers, over to the country about two weeks before us, and they kept the community developers in Puerto Rico for additional community development training. And we went out and we met Puerto Rican professionals who were doing community development work in Puerto Rico. And basically, we'd sit with them in community circles when they were lecturing the local community and cooperating and in community development training. And so we listened in and we tried to learn as much as we could. And then we visited rural homes and people and talked to them to see if they could give us any suggestions and ideals and how to deal with the rural people when we were meeting with them to get acquainted. And it was a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were any films or texts that were used or mostly lecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly lectures and mostly on the job with the rural community developer in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training adequately prepared you for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it prepared you adequately to do the work you were expected to do? Or what would you have liked in addition or there was something more that you would have in retrospect felt would have helped."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.604981962290449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly lectures and mostly on the job with the rural community developer in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the training adequately prepared you for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it prepared you adequately to do the work you were expected to do? Or what would you have liked in addition or there was something more that you would have in retrospect felt would have helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's my evaluation. We spent two months in Outward Bound training and two months at the university. And most of the training in the university was academic, and so the two weeks that we had of actual, you might say, on hands training with a Puerto Rican professional community development was basically all we had, and we did not experience enough to make us highly qualified to do the work. So I cannot say that the training, that I felt the training was adequate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the training process, I know in your time period there was a selection process. Were trainees asked to leave during training or did some decide on their own to leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.858002422580801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's my evaluation. We spent two months in Outward Bound training and two months at the university. And most of the training in the university was academic, and so the two weeks that we had of actual, you might say, on hands training with a Puerto Rican professional community development was basically all we had, and we did not experience enough to make us highly qualified to do the work. So I cannot say that the training, that I felt the training was adequate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the training process, I know in your time period there was a selection process. Were trainees asked to leave during training or did some decide on their own to leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. You know, we lost. Well, we lost a few in training. And most of them were asked to leave, during the training. And we lost a lot more once we got into country during the time there. And that was. Very few left on their own. They were asked to leave, told to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For one thing or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ones that were leaving, was that earlier in the service or did it continue throughout your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.06444713620089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. You know, we lost. Well, we lost a few in training. And most of them were asked to leave, during the training. And we lost a lot more once we got into country during the time there. And that was. Very few left on their own. They were asked to leave, told to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For one thing or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ones that were leaving, was that earlier in the service or did it continue throughout your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It continued. Well, it was primarily early in the service, but it continued throughout the service. In fact, my. One year in service, my partner up in Constanza, his partner was told he had to leave. Because he was, had a racket. He was accepting cash that his group was earning, and he was accepting part of it for himself, and that was prohibited. So he was sent home, and it was after one year of service in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial entry like into Santo Domingo? Actually, you were sent to Constanza, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 12.293830151334323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For one thing or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ones that were leaving, was that earlier in the service or did it continue throughout your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It continued. Well, it was primarily early in the service, but it continued throughout the service. In fact, my. One year in service, my partner up in Constanza, his partner was told he had to leave. Because he was, had a racket. He was accepting cash that his group was earning, and he was accepting part of it for himself, and that was prohibited. So he was sent home, and it was after one year of service in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial entry like into Santo Domingo? Actually, you were sent to Constanza, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first assignment was Hato Mayor, in the far eastern part. Very, very hot and humid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you doing there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6485751430183226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps had agricultural farms in the U.S. that donated the chickens, chicken farms, and they donated the chicks to the Peace Corps and shipped them down. Now the Peace Corps apparently didn't know that white chickens were not welcome. But anyway, we still with the money we made, we repaid every member of the association what they had contributed. We paid off the price of the waters and the feeders and the medicine that we had bought, and so we had a chicken house ready for more than two hundred chickens. And I met with a group and I explained that now we could bring in a much larger group of chickens. They would not be white. And then we would start, the association would start making some money. We had a meeting. They voted to stop the association, divide what's left, and quit, because they did not like to work.\n\nI was so disgusted that I asked the Peace Corps country director for a reassignment. And so that's why I only spent one year in Hato Mayor. And then the Peace Corps country director, whom I had the greatest respect for, reassigned me up in the mountains to Constanza in the other end of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that Andy Hernandez?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Andy Hernandez, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I met him, quite fascinating fellow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He had been in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the association, where they the youth or were they adults by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.053972381131469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Andy Hernandez, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I met him, quite fascinating fellow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He had been in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the association, where they the youth or were they adults by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The association, the members association that you said. I thought originally you said they were young people who were raising the chickens."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.504413756812744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He had been in the military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the association, where they the youth or were they adults by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The association, the members association that you said. I thought originally you said they were young people who were raising the chickens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you had your association, they were still the youth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.893793063125271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The association, the members association that you said. I thought originally you said they were young people who were raising the chickens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you had your association, they were still the youth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, not really young, moderate age, 20s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they weren't children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.807151929784284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, not really young, moderate age, 20s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they weren't children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. Mostly the kids who were for the sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotcha. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But for the association, it was mostly young adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I misunderstood that one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.230168810871428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. Mostly the kids who were for the sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotcha. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But for the association, it was mostly young adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I misunderstood that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I didn't understand, but looking back now, I know, because before I left, the Peace Corps assigned a third volunteer to our group and he had experience as an architect. And he organized a group before I left and asked them what they'd like to do. And they said, we would like to have our own community center. And he said, great, we will build it. And they said OK. So he designed it. He was, he knew what he was doing. He designed it. And then they all went out and they started working on it. And they put up the, they dug the foundation, they put up the cement pillars, and then all of a sudden it was abandoned because the people got tired of working. And so as far as I know, it might be still standing there after all these years, concrete pillars in the air, incomplete community center, because the people did not want to work anymore. So I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interaction with staff during this time period or were they of any assistance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.222430630705466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I didn't understand, but looking back now, I know, because before I left, the Peace Corps assigned a third volunteer to our group and he had experience as an architect. And he organized a group before I left and asked them what they'd like to do. And they said, we would like to have our own community center. And he said, great, we will build it. And they said OK. So he designed it. He was, he knew what he was doing. He designed it. And then they all went out and they started working on it. And they put up the, they dug the foundation, they put up the cement pillars, and then all of a sudden it was abandoned because the people got tired of working. And so as far as I know, it might be still standing there after all these years, concrete pillars in the air, incomplete community center, because the people did not want to work anymore. So I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interaction with staff during this time period or were they of any assistance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. They would visit maybe once every three or four months just to see what was going on and but with no consequence from any of the visits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the assignment to Hato Mayor didn't include assigning you to any particular organization? It was just this is where you're going to live?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.80270070078385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. They would visit maybe once every three or four months just to see what was going on and but with no consequence from any of the visits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the assignment to Hato Mayor didn't include assigning you to any particular organization? It was just this is where you're going to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is what you figure out what to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.052716914547964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is what you figure out what to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, see my partner up in Constanza had just lost his partner, who was sent home for corruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was up there alone. And so I was sent up with him. And so he already had a little house he was renting. So I moved in and that's where we lived until both of us completed our two years and went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in neither case, in Hato Mayor or Constanza, you weren't assigned to an organization to work with, no coworkers or counterparts in the work you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7252410161644045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, see my partner up in Constanza had just lost his partner, who was sent home for corruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was up there alone. And so I was sent up with him. And so he already had a little house he was renting. So I moved in and that's where we lived until both of us completed our two years and went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in neither case, in Hato Mayor or Constanza, you weren't assigned to an organization to work with, no coworkers or counterparts in the work you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were pretty much on our own. When I got to Constanza, I did the same thing I did when I arrived in Hato Mayor. I tried to get familiar with the community, talk to people and see how I could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Hato Mayor was quite hot environment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.47249001796045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was up there alone. And so I was sent up with him. And so he already had a little house he was renting. So I moved in and that's where we lived until both of us completed our two years and went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in neither case, in Hato Mayor or Constanza, you weren't assigned to an organization to work with, no coworkers or counterparts in the work you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were pretty much on our own. When I got to Constanza, I did the same thing I did when I arrived in Hato Mayor. I tried to get familiar with the community, talk to people and see how I could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Hato Mayor was quite hot environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very hot and humid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Constanza I know is up in the mountains, so quite a bit different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.191655575511611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were pretty much on our own. When I got to Constanza, I did the same thing I did when I arrived in Hato Mayor. I tried to get familiar with the community, talk to people and see how I could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Hato Mayor was quite hot environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very hot and humid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Constanza I know is up in the mountains, so quite a bit different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much cooler. And in fact, in the wintertime we had no heat in the house, but the water, if in a puddle outside, sometimes would freeze. It got that cold, never to snow, but the water would freeze."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other issues with the environment in either place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7685061950129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very hot and humid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Constanza I know is up in the mountains, so quite a bit different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much cooler. And in fact, in the wintertime we had no heat in the house, but the water, if in a puddle outside, sometimes would freeze. It got that cold, never to snow, but the water would freeze."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other issues with the environment in either place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just too hot and humid. It's sometimes it's understandable that people didn't want to work, it was too hot. But in Constanza, no, the weather was not really a problem. It was, our house wasn't heated, but, you know, we had warm clothes for the winter, bedding, blankets on the beds. We didn't have indoor plumbing. We couldn't didn't have a stove and couldn't cook our own food, but we would just go down the street to a cafe to eat every day. But it was not a bad life in Constanza."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what specifically was your job there or what did you decide to get involved with in Constanza?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.298340216681001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much cooler. And in fact, in the wintertime we had no heat in the house, but the water, if in a puddle outside, sometimes would freeze. It got that cold, never to snow, but the water would freeze."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other issues with the environment in either place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just too hot and humid. It's sometimes it's understandable that people didn't want to work, it was too hot. But in Constanza, no, the weather was not really a problem. It was, our house wasn't heated, but, you know, we had warm clothes for the winter, bedding, blankets on the beds. We didn't have indoor plumbing. We couldn't didn't have a stove and couldn't cook our own food, but we would just go down the street to a cafe to eat every day. But it was not a bad life in Constanza."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what specifically was your job there or what did you decide to get involved with in Constanza?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Costanza, again, I started working with first with youth groups and I would take them hiking in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were the groups already formed or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.551349210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a question. What was the impetus for you to think about chickens in the first place? Was it you originally said something about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got chicken training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico, part of our community development training was how to grow chickens, raise chickens. And so I was trained in how to vaccinate them, feed them, keep rats away. And how even how to kill the chicken humanely and not have them flop around and things like that. So I learned all of that in the Peace Corps before I started the chicken clubs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like at least some of your training was quite relevant and useful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.2792769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got chicken training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico, part of our community development training was how to grow chickens, raise chickens. And so I was trained in how to vaccinate them, feed them, keep rats away. And how even how to kill the chicken humanely and not have them flop around and things like that. So I learned all of that in the Peace Corps before I started the chicken clubs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like at least some of your training was quite relevant and useful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, yes. I appreciated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting to hear some of the beginnings of this project because I'll tell you later about the history. In both situations, apart from the work, did you have much interaction with Dominicans in more of an informal capacity or social capacity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They didn't like him. I heard all kinds of stories about him, about how he and his family rounded up all the cattle they could that belonged to other people and took them out on boats. And then they sell the boats over to Spain, and so they basically, they stole the wealth from the country when they went. His Trujillo's family, sons I guess. And then there was a man elected as president, well, very soon after that. And then there was a military coup that overthrew him and I was there. We were there for all of that and there was a curfew. And we were, all the Peace Corps volunteers were restricted during the curfew. I would still go out, but I'd have to sneak down to this house where I would play cards with another family but try not to get caught by the people enforcing the curfew. So things like that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did things change over time? You said you had some difficulty learning the language, but over time your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never perfected it, but I could learn enough that I could communicate with the people, whatever I needed to do. But that is a very, very basic level of Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it allowed you to do the type of work the organizing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I could. I learned enough that I could communicate with the people I was working with. But I never became fluent. I'm not good with languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacation time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never perfected it, but I could learn enough that I could communicate with the people, whatever I needed to do. But that is a very, very basic level of Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it allowed you to do the type of work the organizing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I could. I learned enough that I could communicate with the people I was working with. But I never became fluent. I'm not good with languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. When I was at the University of Puerto Rico, I met a girl and I would go back during vacation to Puerto Rico and visit her. Or I would go to Haiti and spend time in Haiti. So those two things is what I would do during vacation time. I wound up marrying the girl. She's my wife now. Fifty-five years in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations. You were restricted from going back to the U.S., I believe, during your time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I could. I learned enough that I could communicate with the people I was working with. But I never became fluent. I'm not good with languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. When I was at the University of Puerto Rico, I met a girl and I would go back during vacation to Puerto Rico and visit her. Or I would go to Haiti and spend time in Haiti. So those two things is what I would do during vacation time. I wound up marrying the girl. She's my wife now. Fifty-five years in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations. You were restricted from going back to the U.S., I believe, during your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we could not go back to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Puerto Rico was considered legitimate. I did the same."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. When I was at the University of Puerto Rico, I met a girl and I would go back during vacation to Puerto Rico and visit her. Or I would go to Haiti and spend time in Haiti. So those two things is what I would do during vacation time. I wound up marrying the girl. She's my wife now. Fifty-five years in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations. You were restricted from going back to the U.S., I believe, during your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we could not go back to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Puerto Rico was considered legitimate. I did the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh go, we could go to Puerto Rico, not the U.S. In fact, I think we had volunteers who went to Florida, and when they came back to the Dominican Republic they were sent home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at your service, what do you feel were your main accomplishments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00169:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we could not go back to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Puerto Rico was considered legitimate. I did the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh go, we could go to Puerto Rico, not the U.S. In fact, I think we had volunteers who went to Florida, and when they came back to the Dominican Republic they were sent home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at your service, what do you feel were your main accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Accomplishments? That's hard to say. Well, I think what we're trying to do is give the people a good impression of Americans, and I hope that the people in Constanza enjoyed the washing centers, the wells, the ovens. My partner and his original partner had helped the Dominicans build a bridge across the creek, which was still in use. I hope the chicken group prospered. But I don't know. And the goodwill I think that we tried to establish would be the major accomplishments. But did I accomplish anything permanent? Probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about lessons learned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.090112491748535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask if we could [talk about] your childhood and your education before you met your ex-husband Jerry [Gerald P.] Carr."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to the same high school, that’s where I met him. We dated all through college, and then we were married after we both graduated from college. He went to University of Southern California [Los Angeles] and I went to Cal State at Long Beach. That began the adventure of moving all over the country, which we did.\\n\\n I was born in Pomona, California, and grew up in southern California in Riverside and Santa Ana. What about my childhood? I skipped the fifth grade. That was a big trauma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They don’t do that anymore, I don’t think. It wasn’t a good idea, because I felt like I missed the whole year. I was younger than everybody else in my class. I was 16 when I graduated from high school, and I was 20 when I graduated from college. It wasn’t because I took extra courses, it was just that skipping a grade that put me up there.\\n\\n I don’t know how much you want about my family. I have one sister, and she was horse-crazy, so she had a horse, and my dad had a horse, and they got me a horse. I didn’t like it. It was too big and too unpredictable. I never got into the horsy thing. Gee, I don’t know what to say about my childhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. You mentioned that you and Jerry met in high school and you dated all through college. You knew he was going to join the military?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.100124990831706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to the same high school, that’s where I met him. We dated all through college, and then we were married after we both graduated from college. He went to University of Southern California [Los Angeles] and I went to Cal State at Long Beach. That began the adventure of moving all over the country, which we did.\\n\\n I was born in Pomona, California, and grew up in southern California in Riverside and Santa Ana. What about my childhood? I skipped the fifth grade. That was a big trauma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They don’t do that anymore, I don’t think. It wasn’t a good idea, because I felt like I missed the whole year. I was younger than everybody else in my class. I was 16 when I graduated from high school, and I was 20 when I graduated from college. It wasn’t because I took extra courses, it was just that skipping a grade that put me up there.\\n\\n I don’t know how much you want about my family. I have one sister, and she was horse-crazy, so she had a horse, and my dad had a horse, and they got me a horse. I didn’t like it. It was too big and too unpredictable. I never got into the horsy thing. Gee, I don’t know what to say about my childhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. You mentioned that you and Jerry met in high school and you dated all through college. You knew he was going to join the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the idea of becoming a military spouse?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.44458332314634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They don’t do that anymore, I don’t think. It wasn’t a good idea, because I felt like I missed the whole year. I was younger than everybody else in my class. I was 16 when I graduated from high school, and I was 20 when I graduated from college. It wasn’t because I took extra courses, it was just that skipping a grade that put me up there.\\n\\n I don’t know how much you want about my family. I have one sister, and she was horse-crazy, so she had a horse, and my dad had a horse, and they got me a horse. I didn’t like it. It was too big and too unpredictable. I never got into the horsy thing. Gee, I don’t know what to say about my childhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. You mentioned that you and Jerry met in high school and you dated all through college. You knew he was going to join the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the idea of becoming a military spouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think anything about it really. The spouse part was more important than the military part to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that, the spouse part was more important to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 37.160648136829266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the idea of becoming a military spouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think anything about it really. The spouse part was more important than the military part to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that, the spouse part was more important to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t care if he was a plumber. I didn’t care what he was going to do, just that I could be there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You traveled all around the world, you mentioned."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.845164596476966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think anything about it really. The spouse part was more important than the military part to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that, the spouse part was more important to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t care if he was a plumber. I didn’t care what he was going to do, just that I could be there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You traveled all around the world, you mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t travel around the world. As a Marine pilot, they didn’t get to take their families with them overseas. They went for like 11 or 13 months, and the wives and kids stayed back here, so we moved around the United States a lot but we didn’t move to any foreign countries. We lived in New Bern, North Carolina, Buford, South Carolina, Pensacola, Florida, Cherry Point, North Carolina. Mostly in the South. We never did get to El Toro, [California] which was in our hometown. That was the Marine base outside Santa Ana. We never got stationed there. We just roamed the country until he came here. That was obviously a permanent move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were moving around, you had quite the pack of kids. You ended up having two sets of twins, six kids in total."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.49462732941885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t care if he was a plumber. I didn’t care what he was going to do, just that I could be there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You traveled all around the world, you mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t travel around the world. As a Marine pilot, they didn’t get to take their families with them overseas. They went for like 11 or 13 months, and the wives and kids stayed back here, so we moved around the United States a lot but we didn’t move to any foreign countries. We lived in New Bern, North Carolina, Buford, South Carolina, Pensacola, Florida, Cherry Point, North Carolina. Mostly in the South. We never did get to El Toro, [California] which was in our hometown. That was the Marine base outside Santa Ana. We never got stationed there. We just roamed the country until he came here. That was obviously a permanent move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were moving around, you had quite the pack of kids. You ended up having two sets of twins, six kids in total."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, two sets of twins and two singles. I think I had two sets of three really. I had a single and twins, and then I had a little respite, and then I had a single and twins again. When [we] came out here, Jerry came out first. We were stationed in Tustin, California, and he came out early, because he had to report, and school wasn’t out yet, so I stayed until school was out and we could get moved.\\n\\n That was quite a wild trip, because I had six kids in a station wagon that didn’t have air-conditioning. It had air-conditioning in the front, but it wasn’t like cars today that have air-conditioning all around. It was hot, and it was pretty terrible. Our next-door neighbor had a daughter that just graduated from high school, so she came with me. She helped me.\\n\\n That was a wild and woolly trip. I came through—is it Columbus?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Mexico?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.21625258824317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t travel around the world. As a Marine pilot, they didn’t get to take their families with them overseas. They went for like 11 or 13 months, and the wives and kids stayed back here, so we moved around the United States a lot but we didn’t move to any foreign countries. We lived in New Bern, North Carolina, Buford, South Carolina, Pensacola, Florida, Cherry Point, North Carolina. Mostly in the South. We never did get to El Toro, [California] which was in our hometown. That was the Marine base outside Santa Ana. We never got stationed there. We just roamed the country until he came here. That was obviously a permanent move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were moving around, you had quite the pack of kids. You ended up having two sets of twins, six kids in total."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, two sets of twins and two singles. I think I had two sets of three really. I had a single and twins, and then I had a little respite, and then I had a single and twins again. When [we] came out here, Jerry came out first. We were stationed in Tustin, California, and he came out early, because he had to report, and school wasn’t out yet, so I stayed until school was out and we could get moved.\\n\\n That was quite a wild trip, because I had six kids in a station wagon that didn’t have air-conditioning. It had air-conditioning in the front, but it wasn’t like cars today that have air-conditioning all around. It was hot, and it was pretty terrible. Our next-door neighbor had a daughter that just graduated from high school, so she came with me. She helped me.\\n\\n That was a wild and woolly trip. I came through—is it Columbus?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just outside of—on the way to Austin. Columbia?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it’s Columbus."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.847225417584156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just outside of—on the way to Austin. Columbia?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it’s Columbus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Columbus. We got there and I saw that there were rain clouds, big rain clouds, over Houston. I thought well, I know which direction the Space Center is, so I took off on the farm road, because we had our luggage on top of the car. I didn’t want to go through a rainstorm. I went—as the crow flies— in the general direction of NASA, and it was in the country. There was a little farmer’s marketplace on the corner, and I stopped and asked, “How do you get to NASA from here?” They said, “You can’t get there from here.” I thought, “This is Texas. This is what I’m going to live in for the next few years.”\\n\\n We managed to find our way to NASA and stay out of the rain. Then we had to stay in a motel for a few days because our house wasn’t ready yet. Being in the military, we lived in all sorts of housing, and some of it wasn’t too great. One was called Splinterville, if that gives you a flavor of what the place was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a name given it by the enlisted guys?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the Marines, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you following the space program at all when you were in the military?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.052472686204617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Columbus. We got there and I saw that there were rain clouds, big rain clouds, over Houston. I thought well, I know which direction the Space Center is, so I took off on the farm road, because we had our luggage on top of the car. I didn’t want to go through a rainstorm. I went—as the crow flies— in the general direction of NASA, and it was in the country. There was a little farmer’s marketplace on the corner, and I stopped and asked, “How do you get to NASA from here?” They said, “You can’t get there from here.” I thought, “This is Texas. This is what I’m going to live in for the next few years.”\\n\\n We managed to find our way to NASA and stay out of the rain. Then we had to stay in a motel for a few days because our house wasn’t ready yet. Being in the military, we lived in all sorts of housing, and some of it wasn’t too great. One was called Splinterville, if that gives you a flavor of what the place was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a name given it by the enlisted guys?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the Marines, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you following the space program at all when you were in the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I guess he was too. A friend of ours had applied for the third group of astronauts. He didn’t make it. We didn’t know anybody else, because there weren’t very many Marines. There was John [H.] Glenn and there was C.C. [Clifton C.] Williams, who was killed later in a plane crash. Those were the only two Marines here when we got here. There were 19 in our group. It was a big group. Let me think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a couple of things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.50274742911624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the Marines, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you following the space program at all when you were in the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I guess he was too. A friend of ours had applied for the third group of astronauts. He didn’t make it. We didn’t know anybody else, because there weren’t very many Marines. There was John [H.] Glenn and there was C.C. [Clifton C.] Williams, who was killed later in a plane crash. Those were the only two Marines here when we got here. There were 19 in our group. It was a big group. Let me think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a couple of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Ask me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the interview before Jerry came out. It’s my understanding that the spouses also had to be interviewed before they would make an offer. Do you remember that interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.780830476795824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I guess he was too. A friend of ours had applied for the third group of astronauts. He didn’t make it. We didn’t know anybody else, because there weren’t very many Marines. There was John [H.] Glenn and there was C.C. [Clifton C.] Williams, who was killed later in a plane crash. Those were the only two Marines here when we got here. There were 19 in our group. It was a big group. Let me think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a couple of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Ask me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the interview before Jerry came out. It’s my understanding that the spouses also had to be interviewed before they would make an offer. Do you remember that interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was so gung ho, it was just ridiculous. I wanted to come here as bad as he did. When they came to talk to me, I was going to be the perfect little military wife. When the last twins were born, he left for a 13-month tour in Japan, and I had the second set of twins 2 months later. I had these babies and four other kids and I was by myself, except my sister lived nearby. That was quite an experience. I never want to do that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.171056968138735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the questions that I thought were kind of stupid, like, “How will you feel if your husband goes to Mars?” I thought, “What do you think we’re applying for? We’re not applying for a trip to Hawaii.” I said I would be very happy if he got a trip to Mars. That was the line of questioning, about how I was going to respond to things. Like I told you, I was pretty gung ho, so I was right there with Jerry, whatever he wants to do, I’ll be there with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask any really personal questions of the spouses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn’t ask personal questions there, but there was a questionnaire that he had to fill out that asked, “How many times did you have sex in a week?” Which I thought was a little intrusive. We pondered over that one, because we didn’t want to give a number that looked like too much and we didn’t want to give a number that looked like too little. We had a hard time with that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just kind of picked the middle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an odd question to ask."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.967841075709707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn’t ask personal questions there, but there was a questionnaire that he had to fill out that asked, “How many times did you have sex in a week?” Which I thought was a little intrusive. We pondered over that one, because we didn’t want to give a number that looked like too much and we didn’t want to give a number that looked like too little. We had a hard time with that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just kind of picked the middle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an odd question to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an odd question to ask. I can’t even think to this day why they asked that. It’s a mystery. I thought I did really well on the interview. I guess I must have done okay, because we made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that he came home and told you on April Fools’ Day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.964267861899675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an odd question to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an odd question to ask. I can’t even think to this day why they asked that. It’s a mystery. I thought I did really well on the interview. I guess I must have done okay, because we made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that he came home and told you on April Fools’ Day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that. I don’t remember that, if it was April Fools’ Day or not. I remember he came home. I remember I was stirring a pot of spaghetti sauce, and he came up and said, “Guess who called me today.” I said, “I don’t know, who called you today?” He said, “Alan [B.] Shepard.” He said, “They accepted me.”\\n\\n We were just ecstatic, and we wanted to tell the kids, but we weren’t supposed to say anything for a few days. I don’t know why. I guess they wanted to announce it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the idea of moving to Texas, being a California girl?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 31.071408735444084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an odd question to ask. I can’t even think to this day why they asked that. It’s a mystery. I thought I did really well on the interview. I guess I must have done okay, because we made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that he came home and told you on April Fools’ Day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that. I don’t remember that, if it was April Fools’ Day or not. I remember he came home. I remember I was stirring a pot of spaghetti sauce, and he came up and said, “Guess who called me today.” I said, “I don’t know, who called you today?” He said, “Alan [B.] Shepard.” He said, “They accepted me.”\\n\\n We were just ecstatic, and we wanted to tell the kids, but we weren’t supposed to say anything for a few days. I don’t know why. I guess they wanted to announce it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the idea of moving to Texas, being a California girl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had lived in Kingsville, Texas, when he was in flight training, so I had a speaking acquaintance with Texas. I was less than thrilled over the topography here. There’s no mountains; there’s no hills, unless you get a little over farther toward Kerrville. I wasn’t used to that. In California you got mountains all around, almost everywhere you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Jerry send you any pictures when he got here of what you might expect of the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.37754722670947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was both. Annie Glenn told me, “He’ll never be yours alone again, because he’s going to belong to everybody. He’s not going to be just yours.” I had no idea what she meant until later. She talked about the area, because there weren’t any stores around really, and there wasn’t a mall or anything like that. There was just the Piggly Wiggly and that was about it. She told me where she got her hair cut, and she told me where to go for grocery shopping, because we didn’t have a commissary yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No commissary up at Ellington [Air Force Base]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The commissary was at Ellington when we finally got one. Her daughter was the same age as the next-door neighbor girl that drove out here with me, and she stayed for the summer, Becky did. Annie got Lyn, her daughter, together with Becky and showed her around a little bit, because they were the same age. That was just really nice of her to do that for a girl that she didn’t even know. Becky was here for the summer, so she and Lyn got to know each other fairly well. But that was a Marine welcome. The rest of them didn’t seem to hang together like that. I don’t know the reason for that, but it seemed like the Marines stuck together.\\n\\n Beth Williams, C.C.’s wife, also invited me for coffee. That wasn’t easy to do because I had six kids at home. As long as Becky was there I could get out a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the next few months did you get a chance to go over to NASA and tour and maybe take the kids over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They took us on a tour and took our picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I’ve seen one of those photos of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.495949556528766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you probably have. Took our picture, and then that was it. Nobody talked to us about what we could expect in terms of their work and their schedules. Nobody told us anything actually. We didn’t hear anything from NASA. I always thought that was really strange, because from the outside it looked like such a high-profile job that you would have thought somebody was driving the ship. It didn’t appear that anybody was, except when we finally had our first wives’ coffee at the Lakewood Yacht Club. That was several months after we got here when we had that.\\n\\n A little bit of the military background rubbed off on them. There weren’t very many civilian astronauts. I think Neil [A.] Armstrong, and I can’t remember who else was a civilian astronaut. We had the first coffee at the Lakewood Yacht Club. Marge Slayton decided that there were too many of us to have at each other’s house, to have a coffee in your home, so we were going to have it at the Lakewood Yacht Club from then on. That’s what we did. That was pretty much the extent of the welcome aboard that we got.\\n\\n It was pretty much limited to where you got to know people in the program and nobody else. You also were pretty much singled out in your neighborhood. Everybody knew where the astronauts lived. In fact you’re still doing that. You want to talk to [my daughter] Jennifer because the Aldrins and the Lovells lived in her house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that wasn’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that must have been the lady from KPRC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that I know the—was it the Chronicle? Somebody had done a story. Does she live in Timber Cove?\n\nI just read one. It came out in the Galveston Daily News. It’s the Coastal magazine. They had pictures of you and your family, and they mentioned you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.106610618365295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that wasn’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that must have been the lady from KPRC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that I know the—was it the Chronicle? Somebody had done a story. Does she live in Timber Cove?\n\nI just read one. It came out in the Galveston Daily News. It’s the Coastal magazine. They had pictures of you and your family, and they mentioned you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer bought a house up in the front of El Lago, and she found out after she bought it that the Aldrins had lived there when they first came when they were waiting for their house to be built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the story I read. I didn’t read the whole thing but it sounds familiar.\n\nIt was Coastal magazine, which comes in our newspaper once a month. I’m not sure exactly how they’re related. I also see it in Galveston County sometimes. You go in restaurants, and it’ll be in there. It’s a separate magazine. It’s like a little thick magazine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.89623402040588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that must have been the lady from KPRC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that I know the—was it the Chronicle? Somebody had done a story. Does she live in Timber Cove?\n\nI just read one. It came out in the Galveston Daily News. It’s the Coastal magazine. They had pictures of you and your family, and they mentioned you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer bought a house up in the front of El Lago, and she found out after she bought it that the Aldrins had lived there when they first came when they were waiting for their house to be built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the story I read. I didn’t read the whole thing but it sounds familiar.\n\nIt was Coastal magazine, which comes in our newspaper once a month. I’m not sure exactly how they’re related. I also see it in Galveston County sometimes. You go in restaurants, and it’ll be in there. It’s a separate magazine. It’s like a little thick magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be darned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wish I’d brought it with me, I should have brought it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.884704467117647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer bought a house up in the front of El Lago, and she found out after she bought it that the Aldrins had lived there when they first came when they were waiting for their house to be built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the story I read. I didn’t read the whole thing but it sounds familiar.\n\nIt was Coastal magazine, which comes in our newspaper once a month. I’m not sure exactly how they’re related. I also see it in Galveston County sometimes. You go in restaurants, and it’ll be in there. It’s a separate magazine. It’s like a little thick magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be darned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wish I’d brought it with me, I should have brought it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we come back I’ll bring it.\n\nIf we come back, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.76078274124183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be darned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wish I’d brought it with me, I should have brought it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we come back I’ll bring it.\n\nIf we come back, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Aldrins lived there while their house was being built, and the Lovells lived there while their house was being built. When we have anything in El Lago that has to do with the astronauts, they put a sign in their yard that says, “Buzz Aldrin and Jim Lovell lived here,” or something like that. They weren’t there when we were there. They were there before we were there, and they were already living in their new houses when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that first coffee. What did you want to know? What did you ask? What [information] did Marge Slayton and some of the other wives offer?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.734203045824255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we come back I’ll bring it.\n\nIf we come back, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Aldrins lived there while their house was being built, and the Lovells lived there while their house was being built. When we have anything in El Lago that has to do with the astronauts, they put a sign in their yard that says, “Buzz Aldrin and Jim Lovell lived here,” or something like that. They weren’t there when we were there. They were there before we were there, and they were already living in their new houses when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that first coffee. What did you want to know? What did you ask? What [information] did Marge Slayton and some of the other wives offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we asked much of anything. We were pretty well snowed by the fact that we were meeting these women that we’d seen only on TV. There was somebody in our group that asked me who they were. I thought, “You’re a pilot’s wife, and you don’t know who the astronaut wives are? Come on, how lame.”\\n\\n We didn’t ask many questions. We might have individually but not in a group. We didn’t ask any questions that I can recall. We talked about how we were going to get together. They had had the last two Gemini flights, and the last flight while we were there [in Houston]. We had just arrived. They had the last Gemini flight, so we got to go to the splashdown party and some things like that. We were included. It’s not like we were excluded from anything, but they just weren’t doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Life contract? How did you find out about that? Or was that something that Jerry handled?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.926892273138062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Aldrins lived there while their house was being built, and the Lovells lived there while their house was being built. When we have anything in El Lago that has to do with the astronauts, they put a sign in their yard that says, “Buzz Aldrin and Jim Lovell lived here,” or something like that. They weren’t there when we were there. They were there before we were there, and they were already living in their new houses when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that first coffee. What did you want to know? What did you ask? What [information] did Marge Slayton and some of the other wives offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we asked much of anything. We were pretty well snowed by the fact that we were meeting these women that we’d seen only on TV. There was somebody in our group that asked me who they were. I thought, “You’re a pilot’s wife, and you don’t know who the astronaut wives are? Come on, how lame.”\\n\\n We didn’t ask many questions. We might have individually but not in a group. We didn’t ask any questions that I can recall. We talked about how we were going to get together. They had had the last two Gemini flights, and the last flight while we were there [in Houston]. We had just arrived. They had the last Gemini flight, so we got to go to the splashdown party and some things like that. We were included. It’s not like we were excluded from anything, but they just weren’t doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Life contract? How did you find out about that? Or was that something that Jerry handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he handled it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense of what the expectations were for you and your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.252102525708956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we asked much of anything. We were pretty well snowed by the fact that we were meeting these women that we’d seen only on TV. There was somebody in our group that asked me who they were. I thought, “You’re a pilot’s wife, and you don’t know who the astronaut wives are? Come on, how lame.”\\n\\n We didn’t ask many questions. We might have individually but not in a group. We didn’t ask any questions that I can recall. We talked about how we were going to get together. They had had the last two Gemini flights, and the last flight while we were there [in Houston]. We had just arrived. They had the last Gemini flight, so we got to go to the splashdown party and some things like that. We were included. It’s not like we were excluded from anything, but they just weren’t doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Life contract? How did you find out about that? Or was that something that Jerry handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he handled it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense of what the expectations were for you and your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It didn’t take you long to figure out who they really wanted to talk to. They really wanted to talk to and take pictures of the Original Seven and some of the others. But they weren’t interested in the Original 19.\\n\\n We were kind of on our own. I think we diluted the amount of money that we were getting for that by 19 more people. We diluted that contract almost by 50 percent. It didn’t really affect us, because nobody wanted to talk to us anyway. That was just kind of a nice freebie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about El Lago, and a lot of people have told us how unique these neighborhoods were. How there were a lot of different traditions that people established during the ’60s. They would have block parties and really know their neighbors. Can you talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.280113917454397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he handled it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense of what the expectations were for you and your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It didn’t take you long to figure out who they really wanted to talk to. They really wanted to talk to and take pictures of the Original Seven and some of the others. But they weren’t interested in the Original 19.\\n\\n We were kind of on our own. I think we diluted the amount of money that we were getting for that by 19 more people. We diluted that contract almost by 50 percent. It didn’t really affect us, because nobody wanted to talk to us anyway. That was just kind of a nice freebie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about El Lago, and a lot of people have told us how unique these neighborhoods were. How there were a lot of different traditions that people established during the ’60s. They would have block parties and really know their neighbors. Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Lago, I thought, was more of a family-oriented area. We thought of Nassau Bay as the party people. That was the only two neighborhoods that we had. The Williamses lived in Dickinson and the Shepards lived in Houston and the Slaytons lived in Friendswood. They were the only outlying people. The rest of us pretty much lived in these two areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned people knew where the astronauts lived. Were there a lot of tour buses coming by trying to figure out who lived where?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.42234879717155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It didn’t take you long to figure out who they really wanted to talk to. They really wanted to talk to and take pictures of the Original Seven and some of the others. But they weren’t interested in the Original 19.\\n\\n We were kind of on our own. I think we diluted the amount of money that we were getting for that by 19 more people. We diluted that contract almost by 50 percent. It didn’t really affect us, because nobody wanted to talk to us anyway. That was just kind of a nice freebie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about El Lago, and a lot of people have told us how unique these neighborhoods were. How there were a lot of different traditions that people established during the ’60s. They would have block parties and really know their neighbors. Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Lago, I thought, was more of a family-oriented area. We thought of Nassau Bay as the party people. That was the only two neighborhoods that we had. The Williamses lived in Dickinson and the Shepards lived in Houston and the Slaytons lived in Friendswood. They were the only outlying people. The rest of us pretty much lived in these two areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned people knew where the astronauts lived. Were there a lot of tour buses coming by trying to figure out who lived where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There might have been in the earlier days, and I think there were. But we didn’t experience that really. You have to realize that we doubled the size of the group really. A lot of things that were true for the first three groups were not true for us. We didn’t experience it the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your street you mentioned getting to know everybody. Were there people from outside of NASA who were your neighbors, or were you primarily with engineers and scientists, other folks who came?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.02483199685728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Lago, I thought, was more of a family-oriented area. We thought of Nassau Bay as the party people. That was the only two neighborhoods that we had. The Williamses lived in Dickinson and the Shepards lived in Houston and the Slaytons lived in Friendswood. They were the only outlying people. The rest of us pretty much lived in these two areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned people knew where the astronauts lived. Were there a lot of tour buses coming by trying to figure out who lived where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There might have been in the earlier days, and I think there were. But we didn’t experience that really. You have to realize that we doubled the size of the group really. A lot of things that were true for the first three groups were not true for us. We didn’t experience it the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your street you mentioned getting to know everybody. Were there people from outside of NASA who were your neighbors, or were you primarily with engineers and scientists, other folks who came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were a lot of NASA people there. On our particular street there wasn’t anybody in the immediate surrounding houses. The Evanses lived around the corner from us and the Anderses lived right in back of them, and the Dukes lived next to the Anderses, so we had that little enclave of people. Then farther on down the Eiseles, the Bormans, and the Staffords lived sort of together in a little area. Neil Armstrong and Ed White lived next to each other.\\n\\n My oldest son Jeff was pretty aware of things that were going on, for a kid, and he still remembers that stuff. He remembers stuff I don’t remember. He’s very articulate, so he’s a really good one to talk to. He’s still dealing with the astronauts in the job that he and Gwen [Griffin] do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What street did you guys live on in El Lago?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.43806419365096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were a lot of NASA people there. On our particular street there wasn’t anybody in the immediate surrounding houses. The Evanses lived around the corner from us and the Anderses lived right in back of them, and the Dukes lived next to the Anderses, so we had that little enclave of people. Then farther on down the Eiseles, the Bormans, and the Staffords lived sort of together in a little area. Neil Armstrong and Ed White lived next to each other.\\n\\n My oldest son Jeff was pretty aware of things that were going on, for a kid, and he still remembers that stuff. He remembers stuff I don’t remember. He’s very articulate, so he’s a really good one to talk to. He’s still dealing with the astronauts in the job that he and Gwen [Griffin] do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What street did you guys live on in El Lago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tallowood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tallowood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived right close to the lake, Taylor Lake. We lived two or three houses from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take full advantage of the water in the area? Did you do any boating or water-skiing, anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.264515770723285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tallowood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tallowood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived right close to the lake, Taylor Lake. We lived two or three houses from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take full advantage of the water in the area? Did you do any boating or water-skiing, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first the kids went crabbing a lot. You could see the boat ramp from my front yard. When they’d go down there, I told the kids, I said, “If somebody falls in, don’t come running home to get help. Find a stick or something that you can put out there and they can hold on to.” They came back one day, and somebody had fallen in and was all wet. I said, “What did you do? What did they do?” Jamee said, “Run in circles, scream and shout.” I thought oh good, there goes my—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much for your training."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.29390641191476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived right close to the lake, Taylor Lake. We lived two or three houses from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take full advantage of the water in the area? Did you do any boating or water-skiing, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first the kids went crabbing a lot. You could see the boat ramp from my front yard. When they’d go down there, I told the kids, I said, “If somebody falls in, don’t come running home to get help. Find a stick or something that you can put out there and they can hold on to.” They came back one day, and somebody had fallen in and was all wet. I said, “What did you do? What did they do?” Jamee said, “Run in circles, scream and shout.” I thought oh good, there goes my—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much for your training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had another thing similar to that happen. The upstairs was set back. It didn’t cover the whole downstairs, it was set back, so you could climb out of every bedroom and get on the roof. Our master bedroom was downstairs, and I thought, “If we have a fire they’re going to all have to come down the stairs, and maybe they won’t be able to.” So I showed them how to climb out the window and get on a tree and climb down. We called it the fire escape tree. I learned later that they used it for all sorts of other purposes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially as they got older?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.922707096895611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any of that. This thing about the astronauts’ church is a fallacy. It was never called the astronauts’ church until recently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it wasn’t the astronauts’ church. The Methodist church was the astronauts’ church. That’s where most of them went, to the Methodist in Seabrook, which isn’t there anymore. It certainly wasn’t our church. We just had John Glenn and Jerry and Buzz [Aldrin]. We had Charlie [Charles A.] Bassett for a little while. Somehow or other the presbytery got this, it’s the astronauts’ church fallacy, and it just ticks me off, because it wasn’t. People who didn’t know were the ones who started that rumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it’s because of the Lunar Communion and Apollo 11, I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the presbytery is making a big deal about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes. That was a big push. When we talked to Jan Evans, she mentioned that she got to see more of Ron [Ronald E. Evans] than she ever did when he was in the military. She said she felt like she was having Friday night affairs is what she called them. Did you have a chance to see more of your husband, you think, than you did when he was [in the Marines]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.469674552106234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it wasn’t the astronauts’ church. The Methodist church was the astronauts’ church. That’s where most of them went, to the Methodist in Seabrook, which isn’t there anymore. It certainly wasn’t our church. We just had John Glenn and Jerry and Buzz [Aldrin]. We had Charlie [Charles A.] Bassett for a little while. Somehow or other the presbytery got this, it’s the astronauts’ church fallacy, and it just ticks me off, because it wasn’t. People who didn’t know were the ones who started that rumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it’s because of the Lunar Communion and Apollo 11, I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the presbytery is making a big deal about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes. That was a big push. When we talked to Jan Evans, she mentioned that she got to see more of Ron [Ronald E. Evans] than she ever did when he was in the military. She said she felt like she was having Friday night affairs is what she called them. Did you have a chance to see more of your husband, you think, than you did when he was [in the Marines]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t feel like I saw more of him. I don’t. I feel like I saw less of him. He was traveling, it seemed like every week. Jan is a very optimistic person, very positive. I don’t recall Friday night being anything other than Friday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seemed pretty busy as you pointed out, with six kids, and then you had your father living with you. How did you juggle all of those things—the household, the kids, cooking, cleaning? I imagine you were doing the lawn care, all of those things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9663050578958154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the presbytery is making a big deal about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes. That was a big push. When we talked to Jan Evans, she mentioned that she got to see more of Ron [Ronald E. Evans] than she ever did when he was in the military. She said she felt like she was having Friday night affairs is what she called them. Did you have a chance to see more of your husband, you think, than you did when he was [in the Marines]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t feel like I saw more of him. I don’t. I feel like I saw less of him. He was traveling, it seemed like every week. Jan is a very optimistic person, very positive. I don’t recall Friday night being anything other than Friday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seemed pretty busy as you pointed out, with six kids, and then you had your father living with you. How did you juggle all of those things—the household, the kids, cooking, cleaning? I imagine you were doing the lawn care, all of those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know how I did it. You just do whatever has to be done. You don’t question how am I going to do this, because you need every breath and every second to figure out how to address the issues in your home.\\n\\n We had built a room on the back for my dad, so he could get around the downstairs okay. We built a ramp outside the back door so he could get outside onto the patio. He used to wheel his chair over to the neighbors for coffee some mornings. He made friends in the neighborhood too. But it was a busy time, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about what Jerry was doing? How much did he share with you? Or you just kind of knew well, he’s working toward a Moon landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5181167309953505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t feel like I saw more of him. I don’t. I feel like I saw less of him. He was traveling, it seemed like every week. Jan is a very optimistic person, very positive. I don’t recall Friday night being anything other than Friday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seemed pretty busy as you pointed out, with six kids, and then you had your father living with you. How did you juggle all of those things—the household, the kids, cooking, cleaning? I imagine you were doing the lawn care, all of those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know how I did it. You just do whatever has to be done. You don’t question how am I going to do this, because you need every breath and every second to figure out how to address the issues in your home.\\n\\n We had built a room on the back for my dad, so he could get around the downstairs okay. We built a ramp outside the back door so he could get outside onto the patio. He used to wheel his chair over to the neighbors for coffee some mornings. He made friends in the neighborhood too. But it was a busy time, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about what Jerry was doing? How much did he share with you? Or you just kind of knew well, he’s working toward a Moon landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty general. Jerry wasn’t a big talker. I knew generally what he was doing but not specifically, until he got farther on down the line, and he finally got an assignment, a flight. Then I knew where he was going and what he was doing pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids have a sense of what he was working on at the time? Or they just knew he was working at NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.131240812217056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know how I did it. You just do whatever has to be done. You don’t question how am I going to do this, because you need every breath and every second to figure out how to address the issues in your home.\\n\\n We had built a room on the back for my dad, so he could get around the downstairs okay. We built a ramp outside the back door so he could get outside onto the patio. He used to wheel his chair over to the neighbors for coffee some mornings. He made friends in the neighborhood too. But it was a busy time, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about what Jerry was doing? How much did he share with you? Or you just kind of knew well, he’s working toward a Moon landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty general. Jerry wasn’t a big talker. I knew generally what he was doing but not specifically, until he got farther on down the line, and he finally got an assignment, a flight. Then I knew where he was going and what he was doing pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids have a sense of what he was working on at the time? Or they just knew he was working at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he took me out there a couple times. One time he took me out, and I got in the simulators. I docked with the command module. He kept me in the loop that way. I wanted to know as much as I could know, so I was pretty inquisitive about what was going on and who was doing what, and I tried to spy for him. I was real good at parties at standing in one group and listening to another one, because you got to hear things that you might not be able to hear otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain what sort of things you were spying on him for? Do you remember anything in particular that he wanted to know that you passed along to him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.812489791352284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty general. Jerry wasn’t a big talker. I knew generally what he was doing but not specifically, until he got farther on down the line, and he finally got an assignment, a flight. Then I knew where he was going and what he was doing pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids have a sense of what he was working on at the time? Or they just knew he was working at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he took me out there a couple times. One time he took me out, and I got in the simulators. I docked with the command module. He kept me in the loop that way. I wanted to know as much as I could know, so I was pretty inquisitive about what was going on and who was doing what, and I tried to spy for him. I was real good at parties at standing in one group and listening to another one, because you got to hear things that you might not be able to hear otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain what sort of things you were spying on him for? Do you remember anything in particular that he wanted to know that you passed along to him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I just told him everything I knew, or thought I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Beth Williams several times. C.C. Williams ended up dying, and I understand that your family was fairly close. I wondered if you would talk about that and the support you provided each other."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.706777520188004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I just told him everything I knew, or thought I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Beth Williams several times. C.C. Williams ended up dying, and I understand that your family was fairly close. I wondered if you would talk about that and the support you provided each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When somebody was killed, when we were in the squadrons, everybody gathered at their house. We did that with Beth. We all gathered down at her house. She was a new military wife, so she hadn’t had the experience of people dying in plane crashes. She had a baby, a little toddler, and she was pregnant again.\\n\\n I stood back and let all the other people who were coming to see her and supporting her, because I thought, “They won’t last and they’ll go away at some point and I’ll be there.” That was my thought.\\n\\n We took her places with us. The military always appointed somebody from the squadron to be the go-between between the widow and the squadron. Jerry was that person for Beth, and that’s part of the reason why I got closer to Beth, because Jerry was helping her with things. She and I were friends for a long time. We didn’t really have that much in common, because she had two kids and I had six, but that was one place I could go down to and take all my six kids and not be worried about not being welcome.\\n\\n Another place like that was Joan Roosa’s house. I could take my six and go to Joan Roosa’s house any day of the week, and she would just be the charming Southern hostess. She’d give all the kids Popsicles, and she made daiquiris for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many kids did she have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had four. We had 10 kids running around there eating Popsicles and climbing trees and going out in the woods. They lived backed up to some woods too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also wanted to ask about the Apollo fire. You mentioned you were kind of left hanging. You weren’t really sure what you were supposed to be doing. Was that a point though where someone asked the wives to do something?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.57626854344198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had four. We had 10 kids running around there eating Popsicles and climbing trees and going out in the woods. They lived backed up to some woods too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also wanted to ask about the Apollo fire. You mentioned you were kind of left hanging. You weren’t really sure what you were supposed to be doing. Was that a point though where someone asked the wives to do something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did what we knew to do from the military, and that was we paid a call on each of the widows even though we didn’t know the Grissoms. But we went to their house because he was the senior officer, and that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about the medical care that you received from NASA. All the astronauts and their families were covered by NASA. Was that anything unique from the military? A little different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we always had a medical section in the military, so it was just a continuation basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with Dee [Delores B.] O’Hara?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.973631714935533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did what we knew to do from the military, and that was we paid a call on each of the widows even though we didn’t know the Grissoms. But we went to their house because he was the senior officer, and that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about the medical care that you received from NASA. All the astronauts and their families were covered by NASA. Was that anything unique from the military? A little different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we always had a medical section in the military, so it was just a continuation basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with Dee [Delores B.] O’Hara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was, but Dee walked a very fine line. She knew more about everything than anybody else did, and she never talked. She never talked to anybody about it. She took care of my dad. They took care of my dad too, because he was a veteran. I was having to take him to the veterans’ hospital in Houston. That was hard for me because I had the six kids. They started taking care of him at the NASA dispensary, which was really an amazing help to me, because I couldn’t be running into the veterans’ hospital that often.\\n\\n That was pretty much the same. It was better than the military really, because the military dispensary took care of the whole base. They just took care of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned several times how you had this pack of children, that you always had to worry about where could you take them, where could you not. I wonder if you would talk about childcare in that day and age. Did you ever have anybody come over and help you besides [Becky] who came out with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.905718166587078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was, but Dee walked a very fine line. She knew more about everything than anybody else did, and she never talked. She never talked to anybody about it. She took care of my dad. They took care of my dad too, because he was a veteran. I was having to take him to the veterans’ hospital in Houston. That was hard for me because I had the six kids. They started taking care of him at the NASA dispensary, which was really an amazing help to me, because I couldn’t be running into the veterans’ hospital that often.\\n\\n That was pretty much the same. It was better than the military really, because the military dispensary took care of the whole base. They just took care of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned several times how you had this pack of children, that you always had to worry about where could you take them, where could you not. I wonder if you would talk about childcare in that day and age. Did you ever have anybody come over and help you besides [Becky] who came out with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a cleaning lady that came once a week. When my dad was with me, she came twice a week. That was really about all the help I had. There weren’t a lot of babysitters around, because all the kids were pretty much the same age. We didn’t have a bunch of high school kids to babysit. We didn’t probably even have any high school kids for a while. There were nurseries, day care centers. There was one in Nassau Bay. One day I got over there with my young twins, and they locked me out of the car. I couldn’t get them out. They didn’t want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I finally got them to unlock the door. In fact, my Jennifer was one of the first babysitters around there because she was the oldest, and she was babysitting age. She’d been babysitting her brothers and sisters, so she was pretty knowledgeable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet, very trained."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.450797962874531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a cleaning lady that came once a week. When my dad was with me, she came twice a week. That was really about all the help I had. There weren’t a lot of babysitters around, because all the kids were pretty much the same age. We didn’t have a bunch of high school kids to babysit. We didn’t probably even have any high school kids for a while. There were nurseries, day care centers. There was one in Nassau Bay. One day I got over there with my young twins, and they locked me out of the car. I couldn’t get them out. They didn’t want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I finally got them to unlock the door. In fact, my Jennifer was one of the first babysitters around there because she was the oldest, and she was babysitting age. She’d been babysitting her brothers and sisters, so she was pretty knowledgeable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet, very trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what we did. I can’t remember if Jennifer was old enough to leave with the rest of the kids. I think if we were going someplace in El Lago we had her be the mom, and she’s still being the mom. I overdid it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the wives ever babysit for each other? Was that something you would ever do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.0564421809717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I finally got them to unlock the door. In fact, my Jennifer was one of the first babysitters around there because she was the oldest, and she was babysitting age. She’d been babysitting her brothers and sisters, so she was pretty knowledgeable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet, very trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what we did. I can’t remember if Jennifer was old enough to leave with the rest of the kids. I think if we were going someplace in El Lago we had her be the mom, and she’s still being the mom. I overdid it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the wives ever babysit for each other? Was that something you would ever do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody ever wanted to trade with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too many kids, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.618269089968556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what we did. I can’t remember if Jennifer was old enough to leave with the rest of the kids. I think if we were going someplace in El Lago we had her be the mom, and she’s still being the mom. I overdid it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the wives ever babysit for each other? Was that something you would ever do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody ever wanted to trade with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too many kids, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too many kids. Joan Roosa was the only place I could go. She was remarkable because you could go in her house. I don’t know if you do this or have ever done this, but you start picking things up when someone comes to visit you. You straighten the magazines, or you pick up the newspaper. You do something. She did nothing. She just went and got you a daiquiri, and that was it. You felt welcome there anytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. I guess she felt like that daiquiri would loosen you up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.242521211076173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody ever wanted to trade with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too many kids, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too many kids. Joan Roosa was the only place I could go. She was remarkable because you could go in her house. I don’t know if you do this or have ever done this, but you start picking things up when someone comes to visit you. You straighten the magazines, or you pick up the newspaper. You do something. She did nothing. She just went and got you a daiquiri, and that was it. You felt welcome there anytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. I guess she felt like that daiquiri would loosen you up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the folks I talked to talked about how Clear Lake was such a rural community in the ’60s and how they remember wild animals running around the area. Do you remember that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.936134678973526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too many kids. Joan Roosa was the only place I could go. She was remarkable because you could go in her house. I don’t know if you do this or have ever done this, but you start picking things up when someone comes to visit you. You straighten the magazines, or you pick up the newspaper. You do something. She did nothing. She just went and got you a daiquiri, and that was it. You felt welcome there anytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. I guess she felt like that daiquiri would loosen you up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the folks I talked to talked about how Clear Lake was such a rural community in the ’60s and how they remember wild animals running around the area. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw deer, and we saw lots of possums and raccoons and little wildlife like that. But I wasn’t aware of any other. We lived close to the woods, so we got a lot of possums and raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were insects a big deal, moving from California to Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.706816309970584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the folks I talked to talked about how Clear Lake was such a rural community in the ’60s and how they remember wild animals running around the area. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw deer, and we saw lots of possums and raccoons and little wildlife like that. But I wasn’t aware of any other. We lived close to the woods, so we got a lot of possums and raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were insects a big deal, moving from California to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The roaches were a big surprise. We don’t have those in California. We have silverfish, which are little bitty things. Yes. The roaches were an unwelcome guest in the house. The bugs, I don’t know, it just went with the territory I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, living in a Southern climate. I wanted to ask you about the schools. Your kids had started going to school in California, and you moved out here. Would you talk about the schools out here? What were they like? Maybe the student body?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.452018122189537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw deer, and we saw lots of possums and raccoons and little wildlife like that. But I wasn’t aware of any other. We lived close to the woods, so we got a lot of possums and raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were insects a big deal, moving from California to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The roaches were a big surprise. We don’t have those in California. We have silverfish, which are little bitty things. Yes. The roaches were an unwelcome guest in the house. The bugs, I don’t know, it just went with the territory I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, living in a Southern climate. I wanted to ask you about the schools. Your kids had started going to school in California, and you moved out here. Would you talk about the schools out here? What were they like? Maybe the student body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were okay. They weren’t any different, I didn’t think, than the ones in California. Of course the ones in California we only had two kids that were going to kindergarten and Jennifer, who was in the third grade. We didn’t have a lot of school experience from California. We lived just a few blocks from Ed White School, so they rode their bikes or walked. It was nice that we lived so close to the school, because a lot of people had to bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you volunteer at the school, or were you again so busy with the kids that you didn’t?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.280020135766152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The roaches were a big surprise. We don’t have those in California. We have silverfish, which are little bitty things. Yes. The roaches were an unwelcome guest in the house. The bugs, I don’t know, it just went with the territory I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, living in a Southern climate. I wanted to ask you about the schools. Your kids had started going to school in California, and you moved out here. Would you talk about the schools out here? What were they like? Maybe the student body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were okay. They weren’t any different, I didn’t think, than the ones in California. Of course the ones in California we only had two kids that were going to kindergarten and Jennifer, who was in the third grade. We didn’t have a lot of school experience from California. We lived just a few blocks from Ed White School, so they rode their bikes or walked. It was nice that we lived so close to the school, because a lot of people had to bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you volunteer at the school, or were you again so busy with the kids that you didn’t?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did stuff at the church. I helped teach Sunday school. Later on when the kids were older I ran the senior high fellowship group and Jerry helped me. That was a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun with those high school kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other things you did, like maybe coaching or Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, things like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.11113597008167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did stuff at the church. I helped teach Sunday school. Later on when the kids were older I ran the senior high fellowship group and Jerry helped me. That was a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun with those high school kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other things you did, like maybe coaching or Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, not the Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Camp Fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Camp Fire Girls. Yes. I did that. Jamee’s group, I ran that for a while. I was busy. That’s for sure. I try to think back about what I was doing, and I can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine some of it is kind of mundane, probably cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.79015107786852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, not the Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Camp Fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Camp Fire Girls. Yes. I did that. Jamee’s group, I ran that for a while. I was busy. That’s for sure. I try to think back about what I was doing, and I can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine some of it is kind of mundane, probably cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had chores that had to be assigned to people. I had a chart on the back porch that had the names and the jobs for that week. They had to be responsible. At some point, I don’t remember how old they were, but I know that when I started law school after Jerry flew, they all had to cook dinner one night a week, because I didn’t get home till six o’clock every night. They did their own laundry. I still had a cleaning lady once a week, so we got the bed linens changed.\\n\\n I’m not very talkative today. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you’ve given some good details. Did NASA provide any sort of family activities that you went to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5446123087428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Camp Fire Girls. Yes. I did that. Jamee’s group, I ran that for a while. I was busy. That’s for sure. I try to think back about what I was doing, and I can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine some of it is kind of mundane, probably cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had chores that had to be assigned to people. I had a chart on the back porch that had the names and the jobs for that week. They had to be responsible. At some point, I don’t remember how old they were, but I know that when I started law school after Jerry flew, they all had to cook dinner one night a week, because I didn’t get home till six o’clock every night. They did their own laundry. I still had a cleaning lady once a week, so we got the bed linens changed.\\n\\n I’m not very talkative today. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you’ve given some good details. Did NASA provide any sort of family activities that you went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like time at AstroWorld?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.203225072521976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like time at AstroWorld?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No picnics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. We never even had a picnic together. I thought it was pretty lame. I tried to do things with our group but I didn’t try to do anything with the whole group, because it wasn’t that cohesive. I don’t understand these wives who talk about how close we were. I didn’t think we were, not anything like the military anyway. The military, you had a built-in support group. Your squadron was your support group. You just kind of had to make your own support group here. Find some people.\\n\\n Joan Aldrin was another one that I used to like to visit with. She was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.114694525024417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No picnics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. We never even had a picnic together. I thought it was pretty lame. I tried to do things with our group but I didn’t try to do anything with the whole group, because it wasn’t that cohesive. I don’t understand these wives who talk about how close we were. I didn’t think we were, not anything like the military anyway. The military, you had a built-in support group. Your squadron was your support group. You just kind of had to make your own support group here. Find some people.\\n\\n Joan Aldrin was another one that I used to like to visit with. She was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had a very different life than I did. I pretty much went from daddy to husband. She had had a life of her own. She was an actress, and she was just an interesting person. She talked about something other than kids and households."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of things would she talk to you about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.338811957055961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. He was never backup for anything, so he was always a support crew, which was the third generation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of Apollo 8?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Susan Borman invited me over to be with her when they went into lunar orbit, and so I spent that time with her. I was reluctant to just go to somebody’s house uninvited, so I didn’t do that. But she invited me over. Actually I was the only one there. That was odd. I don’t know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think she invited you over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Maybe because Jerry was going to be CapCom [Capsule Communicator] when they went into lunar orbit. I think it was something like that. She invited me over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any emotion associated with that that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.820902174506624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Susan Borman invited me over to be with her when they went into lunar orbit, and so I spent that time with her. I was reluctant to just go to somebody’s house uninvited, so I didn’t do that. But she invited me over. Actually I was the only one there. That was odd. I don’t know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think she invited you over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Maybe because Jerry was going to be CapCom [Capsule Communicator] when they went into lunar orbit. I think it was something like that. She invited me over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any emotion associated with that that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty tense. She was pretty uptight and out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She must have been relieved though at that moment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.356557971674026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Maybe because Jerry was going to be CapCom [Capsule Communicator] when they went into lunar orbit. I think it was something like that. She invited me over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any emotion associated with that that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty tense. She was pretty uptight and out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She must have been relieved though at that moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. I think she definitely was. There were people outside her house so she went out and talked to them. They were reporters. She went out and talked to them after they’d done their lunar insertion and come back on the other side. It was a pretty tense time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any fears yourself, or were you pretty confident?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.951731079637807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty tense. She was pretty uptight and out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She must have been relieved though at that moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. I think she definitely was. There were people outside her house so she went out and talked to them. They were reporters. She went out and talked to them after they’d done their lunar insertion and come back on the other side. It was a pretty tense time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any fears yourself, or were you pretty confident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was really confident. I probably didn’t know enough to be worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Apollo 11? Where were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.501923421819786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. I think she definitely was. There were people outside her house so she went out and talked to them. They were reporters. She went out and talked to them after they’d done their lunar insertion and come back on the other side. It was a pretty tense time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any fears yourself, or were you pretty confident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was really confident. I probably didn’t know enough to be worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Apollo 11? Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Joan Aldrin’s house sitting on the floor next to her in front of the TV when they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a relief for you as an astronaut spouse?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.113248246466428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was really confident. I probably didn’t know enough to be worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Apollo 11? Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Joan Aldrin’s house sitting on the floor next to her in front of the TV when they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a relief for you as an astronaut spouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was a big relief. When they landed it wasn’t a big hoopla, big celebration, because—I said this at church—they still had to get off the Moon. They still had to rendezvous with the command module. They still had a lot of critical burns and critical other things that they had to do before they could get home. It wasn’t like splashdown where everybody celebrates. It really wasn’t like that. The lunar landing was more of a let out your breath that you’d been holding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your kids with you to Susan’s and Joan’s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.792498051629365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Joan Aldrin’s house sitting on the floor next to her in front of the TV when they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a relief for you as an astronaut spouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was a big relief. When they landed it wasn’t a big hoopla, big celebration, because—I said this at church—they still had to get off the Moon. They still had to rendezvous with the command module. They still had a lot of critical burns and critical other things that they had to do before they could get home. It wasn’t like splashdown where everybody celebrates. It really wasn’t like that. The lunar landing was more of a let out your breath that you’d been holding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your kids with you to Susan’s and Joan’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, they weren’t invited. They wouldn’t have known what was going on anyway, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t think they had a sense of what was happening in the NASA program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.547220057365961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was a big relief. When they landed it wasn’t a big hoopla, big celebration, because—I said this at church—they still had to get off the Moon. They still had to rendezvous with the command module. They still had a lot of critical burns and critical other things that they had to do before they could get home. It wasn’t like splashdown where everybody celebrates. It really wasn’t like that. The lunar landing was more of a let out your breath that you’d been holding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your kids with you to Susan’s and Joan’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, they weren’t invited. They wouldn’t have known what was going on anyway, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t think they had a sense of what was happening in the NASA program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They say now that they don’t remember very much about it. We didn’t take them to the houses of the crew wives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t talking much about what was happening at NASA over the dinner table, or were you more concerned with other issues?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.385800063739957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, they weren’t invited. They wouldn’t have known what was going on anyway, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t think they had a sense of what was happening in the NASA program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They say now that they don’t remember very much about it. We didn’t take them to the houses of the crew wives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t talking much about what was happening at NASA over the dinner table, or were you more concerned with other issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I think we were. It was not something memorable, because I don’t remember very much, but obviously to me anyway we talked about what was going on, not in any detail though. I didn’t explain to the kids all the things that had to happen for them to out of lunar orbit and back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of the guys we’ve talked to talk about how they kind of missed what was happening in the ’60s because their heads were buried so deep in Apollo. Do you kind of feel like it was the same way for the wives? Did you have a sense of what was happening in Vietnam, civil rights, and everything else?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.984222293044397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They say now that they don’t remember very much about it. We didn’t take them to the houses of the crew wives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t talking much about what was happening at NASA over the dinner table, or were you more concerned with other issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I think we were. It was not something memorable, because I don’t remember very much, but obviously to me anyway we talked about what was going on, not in any detail though. I didn’t explain to the kids all the things that had to happen for them to out of lunar orbit and back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of the guys we’ve talked to talk about how they kind of missed what was happening in the ’60s because their heads were buried so deep in Apollo. Do you kind of feel like it was the same way for the wives? Did you have a sense of what was happening in Vietnam, civil rights, and everything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a sense of it, because friends of ours in the Marine Corps were going to Vietnam and we were going to the Indy 500. I didn’t talk to those people very much because I didn’t know what to say to them. Their husbands were getting shot down in Vietnam, coming home in wheelchairs, and I was going to the Indy 500 as a guest of some rich people. I didn’t stay in touch with them very good. I felt guilty, I think, that we were living such an interesting life, and that we didn’t have to go to Vietnam. I was so glad of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that cross your mind when Jerry came and told you, when you were making that spaghetti sauce, of that relief? Did that wash over you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.649135881160441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I think we were. It was not something memorable, because I don’t remember very much, but obviously to me anyway we talked about what was going on, not in any detail though. I didn’t explain to the kids all the things that had to happen for them to out of lunar orbit and back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of the guys we’ve talked to talk about how they kind of missed what was happening in the ’60s because their heads were buried so deep in Apollo. Do you kind of feel like it was the same way for the wives? Did you have a sense of what was happening in Vietnam, civil rights, and everything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a sense of it, because friends of ours in the Marine Corps were going to Vietnam and we were going to the Indy 500. I didn’t talk to those people very much because I didn’t know what to say to them. Their husbands were getting shot down in Vietnam, coming home in wheelchairs, and I was going to the Indy 500 as a guest of some rich people. I didn’t stay in touch with them very good. I felt guilty, I think, that we were living such an interesting life, and that we didn’t have to go to Vietnam. I was so glad of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that cross your mind when Jerry came and told you, when you were making that spaghetti sauce, of that relief? Did that wash over you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just excited. I was real excited that we were going to come and be part of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about 11. What about 13? Anything stand out for that flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.054595423511601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a sense of it, because friends of ours in the Marine Corps were going to Vietnam and we were going to the Indy 500. I didn’t talk to those people very much because I didn’t know what to say to them. Their husbands were getting shot down in Vietnam, coming home in wheelchairs, and I was going to the Indy 500 as a guest of some rich people. I didn’t stay in touch with them very good. I felt guilty, I think, that we were living such an interesting life, and that we didn’t have to go to Vietnam. I was so glad of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that cross your mind when Jerry came and told you, when you were making that spaghetti sauce, of that relief? Did that wash over you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just excited. I was real excited that we were going to come and be part of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about 11. What about 13? Anything stand out for that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all ended up—I say we all—a lot of us ended up at Mary Haise’s house. Jerry, I don’t know if he was assigned to Mary or not. He might have been assigned to Mary to be with her during that time. I seem to recall that he had something to do with that. We were all sitting around Mary’s house waiting to hear what was going to happen next.\\n\\n I remember when they came home. We lived just down the street from the Haises, so we went down there when he came home. He climbed up a tree in his front yard so he could see everybody, because all the neighbors were crowded around. That was pretty scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. I have heard that some of the neighbors, when the guys would come back from flights, would greet them with American flags. They would line the streets. Was that something that you saw in El Lago?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.505106026124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just excited. I was real excited that we were going to come and be part of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about 11. What about 13? Anything stand out for that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all ended up—I say we all—a lot of us ended up at Mary Haise’s house. Jerry, I don’t know if he was assigned to Mary or not. He might have been assigned to Mary to be with her during that time. I seem to recall that he had something to do with that. We were all sitting around Mary’s house waiting to hear what was going to happen next.\\n\\n I remember when they came home. We lived just down the street from the Haises, so we went down there when he came home. He climbed up a tree in his front yard so he could see everybody, because all the neighbors were crowded around. That was pretty scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. I have heard that some of the neighbors, when the guys would come back from flights, would greet them with American flags. They would line the streets. Was that something that you saw in El Lago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, our little neighborhood had a great big flag. It was made out of plywood, and it seemed like it was as big as that whole section of books. [Points] It was really big. Did it have lights on it? Anyway, that went from yard to yard as our husbands flew. That got put up in our yard. We had lights on the stars. Gee, that’s funny, I can’t remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been a while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.0056733623600005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all ended up—I say we all—a lot of us ended up at Mary Haise’s house. Jerry, I don’t know if he was assigned to Mary or not. He might have been assigned to Mary to be with her during that time. I seem to recall that he had something to do with that. We were all sitting around Mary’s house waiting to hear what was going to happen next.\\n\\n I remember when they came home. We lived just down the street from the Haises, so we went down there when he came home. He climbed up a tree in his front yard so he could see everybody, because all the neighbors were crowded around. That was pretty scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. I have heard that some of the neighbors, when the guys would come back from flights, would greet them with American flags. They would line the streets. Was that something that you saw in El Lago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, our little neighborhood had a great big flag. It was made out of plywood, and it seemed like it was as big as that whole section of books. [Points] It was really big. Did it have lights on it? Anyway, that went from yard to yard as our husbands flew. That got put up in our yard. We had lights on the stars. Gee, that’s funny, I can’t remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really has. Were there other traditions that your neighborhood developed while you were there for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter? Timber Cove, for the anniversary of Apollo 8, they put out the luminaries. You mentioned the flag in your neighborhood. Were there other things that got started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.450748180400001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, our little neighborhood had a great big flag. It was made out of plywood, and it seemed like it was as big as that whole section of books. [Points] It was really big. Did it have lights on it? Anyway, that went from yard to yard as our husbands flew. That got put up in our yard. We had lights on the stars. Gee, that’s funny, I can’t remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really has. Were there other traditions that your neighborhood developed while you were there for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter? Timber Cove, for the anniversary of Apollo 8, they put out the luminaries. You mentioned the flag in your neighborhood. Were there other things that got started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. We did the luminaries at Christmastime, but that wasn’t anything to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people didn’t have family down here, so they started their own traditions to bring people together and create a family network."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.945275756000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really has. Were there other traditions that your neighborhood developed while you were there for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter? Timber Cove, for the anniversary of Apollo 8, they put out the luminaries. You mentioned the flag in your neighborhood. Were there other things that got started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. We did the luminaries at Christmastime, but that wasn’t anything to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people didn’t have family down here, so they started their own traditions to bring people together and create a family network."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think we learned that in the military. That was a carryover from the military, as far as I can tell, because the military was much tighter socially than we were here. I don’t know. Maybe it was just because I had so many kids, but I just don’t remember it being one big happy family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, because someone we interviewed at your church mentioned that. He thought that everyone was a family, that everyone was united behind Apollo, but you didn’t get that sense?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.494750840000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. We did the luminaries at Christmastime, but that wasn’t anything to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people didn’t have family down here, so they started their own traditions to bring people together and create a family network."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think we learned that in the military. That was a carryover from the military, as far as I can tell, because the military was much tighter socially than we were here. I don’t know. Maybe it was just because I had so many kids, but I just don’t remember it being one big happy family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, because someone we interviewed at your church mentioned that. He thought that everyone was a family, that everyone was united behind Apollo, but you didn’t get that sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they were. I don’t know. I was too far in the middle of it to really stand back and look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing we didn’t talk about that I wanted to ask you about, and that was your church had the Lunar Communion. What are your memories of that event? Were you at church that day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.994167600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think we learned that in the military. That was a carryover from the military, as far as I can tell, because the military was much tighter socially than we were here. I don’t know. Maybe it was just because I had so many kids, but I just don’t remember it being one big happy family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, because someone we interviewed at your church mentioned that. He thought that everyone was a family, that everyone was united behind Apollo, but you didn’t get that sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they were. I don’t know. I was too far in the middle of it to really stand back and look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing we didn’t talk about that I wanted to ask you about, and that was your church had the Lunar Communion. What are your memories of that event? Were you at church that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t have any memories of it. I’m sure I was because I was always at church. I don’t know. I guess it was like a family, but I don’t remember anything specific. I’m sure some of the other people at the church felt that, but I didn’t. I wasn’t really aware of who was doing what out there. For instance, [Jack A.] Kinzler is getting a lot of press now, but during the flight he didn’t at all, so we didn’t know what he did until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about how you think Apollo affected your family and the other families living here, and whether or not you think you had to make any sacrifices for the Moon landing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.437964000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they were. I don’t know. I was too far in the middle of it to really stand back and look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing we didn’t talk about that I wanted to ask you about, and that was your church had the Lunar Communion. What are your memories of that event? Were you at church that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t have any memories of it. I’m sure I was because I was always at church. I don’t know. I guess it was like a family, but I don’t remember anything specific. I’m sure some of the other people at the church felt that, but I didn’t. I wasn’t really aware of who was doing what out there. For instance, [Jack A.] Kinzler is getting a lot of press now, but during the flight he didn’t at all, so we didn’t know what he did until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about how you think Apollo affected your family and the other families living here, and whether or not you think you had to make any sacrifices for the Moon landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we saw it, or I didn’t see it, as a sacrifice. It was what their job was. It was what they all wanted. That’s what we were all here for. So I don’t recall that there was that much attention on those flights. I think I was too close in to the inner circle to really get a perspective on what the rest of the world was doing in regard to the space program. I was plugged in to what the rest of the country was doing in terms of changing roles, changing roles in the family. I kind of got caught up in the women’s movement, and that led me to law school. I identified a lot with Joanie Caucus. Do you know who that is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That name doesn’t sound familiar."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.244400000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we saw it, or I didn’t see it, as a sacrifice. It was what their job was. It was what they all wanted. That’s what we were all here for. So I don’t recall that there was that much attention on those flights. I think I was too close in to the inner circle to really get a perspective on what the rest of the world was doing in regard to the space program. I was plugged in to what the rest of the country was doing in terms of changing roles, changing roles in the family. I kind of got caught up in the women’s movement, and that led me to law school. I identified a lot with Joanie Caucus. Do you know who that is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That name doesn’t sound familiar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Doonesbury.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Doonesbury.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned women, and that’s one of the things I’m curious about your thoughts on. I think that the women helped to build this community. As you mentioned, you didn’t see your husband very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Doonesbury.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Doonesbury.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned women, and that’s one of the things I’m curious about your thoughts on. I think that the women helped to build this community. As you mentioned, you didn’t see your husband very much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What role do you think that women played in helping to create the Clear Lake community? The churches, the schools, all of those things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Doonesbury.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned women, and that’s one of the things I’m curious about your thoughts on. I think that the women helped to build this community. As you mentioned, you didn’t see your husband very much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What role do you think that women played in helping to create the Clear Lake community? The churches, the schools, all of those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were definitely seen as leaders in some respect. We were kind of looked up to, I think. I don’t know that that was warranted, but I think that we were kind of set apart. I don’t know if you have any other questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to come back and talk about Skylab, but I wanted to ask Sandra if she had any questions for you.\n\nNot right now.\n\nI think this might be a good place to stop, because I want to give some more full attention to the Skylab mission and your involvement, because I think that that deserves some attention. Like you pointed out, it was the last mission. It didn’t get a lot of attention."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What role do you think that women played in helping to create the Clear Lake community? The churches, the schools, all of those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were definitely seen as leaders in some respect. We were kind of looked up to, I think. I don’t know that that was warranted, but I think that we were kind of set apart. I don’t know if you have any other questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to come back and talk about Skylab, but I wanted to ask Sandra if she had any questions for you.\n\nNot right now.\n\nI think this might be a good place to stop, because I want to give some more full attention to the Skylab mission and your involvement, because I think that that deserves some attention. Like you pointed out, it was the last mission. It didn’t get a lot of attention."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn’t, which was okay, but I didn’t get a lot of support either. I was very involved in the mission. I had the squawk boxes in the living room and my bedroom to listen to all the air-to-ground. I had the transcripts of the air-to-ground and mission control delivered to my house every morning. I listened to Jerry on the phone. We got to talk every third day; we got to talk on the phone.\\n\\n I was not very pleased with the way the media was painting that crew. They were painting them as rookies because they were slow, but they were slow for a reason. It wasn’t because of anything they did. I’m getting into deep water here. I don’t think I want to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about this? How about you give it some thought, and then we come back and talk about Skylab? Would you like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00094:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were definitely seen as leaders in some respect. We were kind of looked up to, I think. I don’t know that that was warranted, but I think that we were kind of set apart. I don’t know if you have any other questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to come back and talk about Skylab, but I wanted to ask Sandra if she had any questions for you.\n\nNot right now.\n\nI think this might be a good place to stop, because I want to give some more full attention to the Skylab mission and your involvement, because I think that that deserves some attention. Like you pointed out, it was the last mission. It didn’t get a lot of attention."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn’t, which was okay, but I didn’t get a lot of support either. I was very involved in the mission. I had the squawk boxes in the living room and my bedroom to listen to all the air-to-ground. I had the transcripts of the air-to-ground and mission control delivered to my house every morning. I listened to Jerry on the phone. We got to talk every third day; we got to talk on the phone.\\n\\n I was not very pleased with the way the media was painting that crew. They were painting them as rookies because they were slow, but they were slow for a reason. It wasn’t because of anything they did. I’m getting into deep water here. I don’t think I want to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about this? How about you give it some thought, and then we come back and talk about Skylab? Would you like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could do that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You want to make some notes for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 37.36572090408481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on a little bit of everything. What I did is after I had the tasking done, to make sure divided among the crew on a particular shift, and that it was well balanced. You also have to make sure it’s trainable. The amount of training time isn’t always related to the amount of time on orbit, so you have to make sure that the person has the time to train for it. Then I would take sort of what was left over, and I always made sure I had some time to back up as well, put a little more pad in my time, so that if someone else that was a rookie, for example, needed some help, where I made it a two-person operation, I would do that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any challenges that you faced during this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During STS-50?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Challenges. I’m almost guilty to say it. It was an extremely smooth flight. It was on Columbia, with the Spacelab. There were no failures of anything. The only event we had in the flight was that one of the furnaces had a large power switch and a switch guard was not narrow enough to preclude somebody’s toe from getting in and turning the furnace off, which was a great disappointment to the investigator, but we were able to load some backup samples in. That was, as I recall, the only big event. Everything else was extremely successful. We eventually flew a follow-on flight to that, called USML-2, with a lot of the same hardware, but now flying the next generation of research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering if you can compare this Spacelab flight with your first Spacelab flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.62857878231645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During STS-50?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Challenges. I’m almost guilty to say it. It was an extremely smooth flight. It was on Columbia, with the Spacelab. There were no failures of anything. The only event we had in the flight was that one of the furnaces had a large power switch and a switch guard was not narrow enough to preclude somebody’s toe from getting in and turning the furnace off, which was a great disappointment to the investigator, but we were able to load some backup samples in. That was, as I recall, the only big event. Everything else was extremely successful. We eventually flew a follow-on flight to that, called USML-2, with a lot of the same hardware, but now flying the next generation of research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering if you can compare this Spacelab flight with your first Spacelab flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Both Spacelabs, different countries, both eighteen-month flows, both very successful in terms of the output of the science. You executed the research; the researchers got results. The vehicles, Challenger and Columbia, both performed beautifully. We didn’t lose any research due to any failure on the systems level. Different cultures for training, one I was very familiar with, the NASA culture. The German culture I became familiar with, and it was a learning journey for them as well. The D-1 mission had many purposes, and science was one of them. In fact, the Spacelab was built in Germany by MBB [Messerschmitt-Boklow-Blahn]/ERNO [Entwicklungts Ring Nord Organization], but it was also a national symbol, and they were hoping to galvanize and rejuvenate their youth, stimulate their youth into education and exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about the crew relationship, what that was like, especially being on two separate teams, on STS-50?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.70717692777999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as crewmembers you bond with your families as well, particularly close to flight. The families get to know one another; you’re in quarantine, you see your families together as well. So it’s more than just the crewmembers; it’s the families that do that as well. So it’s social events. You spend all day together in classes and simulators. It’s a natural process of getting ready to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any interesting anecdotes from the flight that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gee, I’d have to really think hard. There probably was, but I can’t think of them right offhand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were up there during the Fourth of July, did you have any sort of festivities or any markers that this was the Fourth of July and you were in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually. We played some music down over Fourth of July. I can’t remember which one it was, but it was maybe a country-and-western song. Then we’d taken some video across the U.S. and ended up looking right down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], it worked out just right, and we played that down to mission control. There were also a couple of passes over my home state, Washington State and the Yakima Valley, and I still show those pictures when I go on tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to work with SAREX [Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment] while you were up on the flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.67464103086665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gee, I’d have to really think hard. There probably was, but I can’t think of them right offhand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were up there during the Fourth of July, did you have any sort of festivities or any markers that this was the Fourth of July and you were in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually. We played some music down over Fourth of July. I can’t remember which one it was, but it was maybe a country-and-western song. Then we’d taken some video across the U.S. and ended up looking right down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], it worked out just right, and we played that down to mission control. There were also a couple of passes over my home state, Washington State and the Yakima Valley, and I still show those pictures when I go on tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to work with SAREX [Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment] while you were up on the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Not very much, because mostly that was the flight deck crew, but I did a little bit. I did most of my SAREX or ham radio work actually on a later flight, on STS-89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your call sign, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 44.082934478740725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually. We played some music down over Fourth of July. I can’t remember which one it was, but it was maybe a country-and-western song. Then we’d taken some video across the U.S. and ended up looking right down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], it worked out just right, and we played that down to mission control. There were also a couple of passes over my home state, Washington State and the Yakima Valley, and I still show those pictures when I go on tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to work with SAREX [Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment] while you were up on the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Not very much, because mostly that was the flight deck crew, but I did a little bit. I did most of my SAREX or ham radio work actually on a later flight, on STS-89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your call sign, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you’re going to ask me. I haven’t used the call sign in five years, I think, so I don’t have that memorized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people most often ask you that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 44.53659386526747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Not very much, because mostly that was the flight deck crew, but I did a little bit. I did most of my SAREX or ham radio work actually on a later flight, on STS-89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your call sign, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you’re going to ask me. I haven’t used the call sign in five years, I think, so I don’t have that memorized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people most often ask you that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From STS-50? Well, it’s 1992, so it’s now, what, thirteen years in history. It’s hard to believe. It seems like yesterday to me. I think we’re losing our corporate memory. We’re talking about building a capability for Station, and with a lot of people doubting the promise, and it’s because they’ve forgotten we’ve already done most of that; we’re trying to go the next step. This isn’t about an if; it’s about a when. We know we can go these things. We’ve built a framework; we’ve built a platform, and now it’s important to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your flight was actually scheduled to land on July 8th, but you ended up landing a day later. What did you do with that extra day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 46.29947091779025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was almost like being in a war mentality. [Laughs] It was an unusual time. I’d been up there post Challenger and that was an expected unusual time, you know; you’re working after an accident, and I was one of about three astronauts working for Admiral [Richard H.] Truly at that time, kind of rotating up there. I’d sort of expected it to be a little more structured this time, but it wasn’t, because we had a new Administrator; we were redesigning the Station; we had continual congressional committees to support. There was a new vote on the Space Station; we won by one vote. So we were doing a lot of work, seven days a week. I was living in Crystal City [Virginia], and I can recall not seeing daylight a lot. I mean, from my apartment I could go down, get into the subway, get out two blocks away from NASA Headquarters. That’s the only time I was outdoors. Get in the building; work all day. It’d be dark when I got out. Go to the subway. Get up in my apartment. [Laughs] And did that for nearly a year, as I expect many people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you found out that you were coming back to JSC, what was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I helped make that decision. It was almost a year. I knew there were a couple of things where I had to precipitate a decision. Your tax status changes once you’re there longer than a year, and we had sort of everything up and running. We were transitioning the Station management back down to Johnson Space Center. Code U was up and running, and I was ready to come back. So I said, “It’s probably time,” and they said, “Okay.” So I came back in I think it was December of ’93."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Around that time Dave [David C.] Leestma approached you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us that story?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.325272383050915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first flight was a process of both learning the German culture and the German systems, as well as ours; it was my first training flow. So out of that, I took both those experiences with me to Russia. We have a process that works. We were trying to integrate another country with that. You know to what extent you can compromise and actually perhaps be in a position to do that, and what places you can’t. So that’s experience, I guess—that’s a good word for it—and a competence of knowing what you know and don’t know. It was a learning process, I think, that helped in Russia.\\n\\n Actually, it was kind of funny when I first got there and met my first Russian flight surgeon, and I was still learning Russian, obviously. He didn’t know any English, but we both knew German, so the first walk we took, we were talking in German."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you still keep up both languages, German and Russian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you don’t have an opportunity to, but it’s funny where that’s stored in your brain. Every once in a while something will come up and you’ll want to speak Russian and you’re speaking German. It’s interesting. Or all of a sudden I’ll have some thoughts in Russian, or I’ll see something and all the German words will come up. I’d love to have the opportunity to keep up with it, but I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the thing that you missed most about the U.S. when you were over in Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Family and friends. The things that are always close to you in regard to relationships, I think, are what you miss the most. My husband, of course, was still over here as well, and the phone communication was very poor. We had no mail, so that made it difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you stay in contact? Just e-mails, is that how you stayed in contact?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.028080425612128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you don’t have an opportunity to, but it’s funny where that’s stored in your brain. Every once in a while something will come up and you’ll want to speak Russian and you’re speaking German. It’s interesting. Or all of a sudden I’ll have some thoughts in Russian, or I’ll see something and all the German words will come up. I’d love to have the opportunity to keep up with it, but I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the thing that you missed most about the U.S. when you were over in Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Family and friends. The things that are always close to you in regard to relationships, I think, are what you miss the most. My husband, of course, was still over here as well, and the phone communication was very poor. We had no mail, so that made it difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you stay in contact? Just e-mails, is that how you stayed in contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the e-mail system got up, then that was primarily how we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see a Soyuz launch while you were over there in Russia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.58675602845792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Family and friends. The things that are always close to you in regard to relationships, I think, are what you miss the most. My husband, of course, was still over here as well, and the phone communication was very poor. We had no mail, so that made it difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you stay in contact? Just e-mails, is that how you stayed in contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the e-mail system got up, then that was primarily how we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see a Soyuz launch while you were over there in Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We didn’t go to Baikonur [Cosmodrome] until actually we went down for what we would call our launch countdown test. We went down several weeks before launch to do the fit check in the Soyuz to see whether or not—they do custom-made seats called l____. The guy who actually carved my seat was the same old gentleman that carved Yuri Gagarin’s seat. You get into a shell and they pour plaster of Paris around you as you’re on your back, and let it sort of harden, mostly. You’re actually wearing a kind of a body suit. Get out of it, and then he carves out a tolerance level for your pressure suit, and you keep fitting it, and then that shell goes into a metal cradle well in your launch and entry suit. Well, you have to check all that out before launch; make sure you’re knees clear the instrument panel in front of you. That was the first time I’d even seen a Soyuz, the first time I’d ever been down to Baikonur. So that would have been in the early part of ’95."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the book, Dragonfly, in ’98 that book came out. What were your thoughts about that book when it first came out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 24.04764494283345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t tell you, because in Russia I never saw the U.S. press, and I came back and was so busy training, I think other people on the outside are a better judge. I don’t know. Did it get a lot of attention? It was the first docking mission between the two. I hope it did, but I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us a sense of the historic precedent of this mission, from your perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my perspective, it was the first docking between Russia and the U.S. since Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project]. Apollo-Soyuz, I think we all hoped that that would have been a thawing in the Cold War. It was a great experience, but it didn’t thaw, not to the extent that we would have liked. But now, this mission was called Phase 1A, which meant it was a phase leading into International Space Station, but there was a Phase 1A and then a 1B. OneA, the Russians trained us at their cost in Russia, and we trained the cosmonaut, Sergei Krikalev, at our cost in the U.S., so it was kind of a trade. And Phase 1B, then the U.S. trained to fly a number of Americans on the Mir, and built facilities, housing facilities, to provide infrastructure there at Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Apollo-Soyuz. Was that still prominent in the memories of the Russians when you went over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because the medical facility there, or the quarantine facility, we’d actually built. The “Prophy” it was called, Prophylactoria, which is a medical isolation facility. So some of the older people there, there are actually quite a few, remember Apollo-Soyuz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about the launch of this flight? We talked about your first launch, but what are your memories of the launch of this flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.276718378968063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t bring any; it’s what they packed for us. I think it was fruit and chocolates, but I don’t remember. You sort of find out when you’re there, because maybe Ellen was in charge of gifts. “Oh what did they pack?” “Oh, I think we’re giving them chocolates and fruit.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the ceremony like? Was it something that was preplanned, pre-scripted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the time-lining part of it and the exchange. All the crews there around the Mir dining room table, and we make sure the cameras are set up and so forth. We get the “go” from Houston that everything’s enabled. Then the commanders each say something and they shake hands and we all shake hands. Then there’s an end to that, and everybody’s on the watch at that end, we have to do exchange, you had to get experiments back and forth, we have to get stowage, supplies back and forth, and it all has to be done before the next big milestone, which, on that flight, I think we went to bed at different times, so mealtime, so we had to get back on the flight plan, so it was very much choreographed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after these ceremonies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Research and transfers, we call it, and handovers on the crew. Actually the old crew starts handing over to the new crew, so we actually kind of separated into different groups. You’ve got the Russian cosmonauts doing their handover, getting Norm off and into the Spacelab, actually, because Ellen and I started doing the medical exams on the two cosmonauts and Norm, and that was on the flight plan, and there were other things that they had to get done, so it was a combination of a lot of different things over those dock days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us a little bit about those medical exams and what sort of things that you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.530739794190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once we were docked and started it, it was full-day operations, then that’s what I did most of the day. They weren’t all three in there at a time because there were still handover activities going on on Mir, so we had the old crew and Norm in there most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else did you do while you were on this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’ve characterized operating the medical research. Of course, during docking and undocking, working the VHF radio, the integrated flight plan, monitoring some of the systems on the displays. I’d have to look at the flight plan to see what else I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of Mir? Maybe you could describe it for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will never forget the first time we opened the hatch. It smelled like a well-used Russian kitchen; I could smell all the food coming in. Then I also smelled mildew, because they’d had a problem with airflow and stagnation, and in the cold parts of the station they’d had condensate develop, and it had been seeping into some of their thermal blankets, and actually they had been developing a mildew. So I was very sensitive to that smell, because I grew up in the Northwest, where I’d never smelled it. The first time I ever smelled it was coming into [William P.] Hobby Airport [Houston, Texas], and I remember saying, “What is that smell?” and it imprinted on my brain. So when we opened the hatch to Mir, I said, “That is mildew. I know that smell.” And sure enough, where we docked, and through that module, which would have been—was maybe Kvant—I’ll have to think about which one it is—as we floated through, and we had to pull ourselves on a line they had strung, there were some damp blankets that you could feel. And there was a window there that you could actually see some of the water condensing on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also up there during Fourth of July again. Do you remember celebrating the Fourth of July?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.2563775491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’ve characterized operating the medical research. Of course, during docking and undocking, working the VHF radio, the integrated flight plan, monitoring some of the systems on the displays. I’d have to look at the flight plan to see what else I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of Mir? Maybe you could describe it for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will never forget the first time we opened the hatch. It smelled like a well-used Russian kitchen; I could smell all the food coming in. Then I also smelled mildew, because they’d had a problem with airflow and stagnation, and in the cold parts of the station they’d had condensate develop, and it had been seeping into some of their thermal blankets, and actually they had been developing a mildew. So I was very sensitive to that smell, because I grew up in the Northwest, where I’d never smelled it. The first time I ever smelled it was coming into [William P.] Hobby Airport [Houston, Texas], and I remember saying, “What is that smell?” and it imprinted on my brain. So when we opened the hatch to Mir, I said, “That is mildew. I know that smell.” And sure enough, where we docked, and through that module, which would have been—was maybe Kvant—I’ll have to think about which one it is—as we floated through, and we had to pull ourselves on a line they had strung, there were some damp blankets that you could feel. And there was a window there that you could actually see some of the water condensing on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also up there during Fourth of July again. Do you remember celebrating the Fourth of July?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t. Maybe we didn’t make a big deal of it because we were docked with the Russians at that time. I’m sure there was something we did, but it may have just been so busy and came and went, that I don’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of closing up that hatch and your feelings at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.600466110000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t. Maybe we didn’t make a big deal of it because we were docked with the Russians at that time. I’m sure there was something we did, but it may have just been so busy and came and went, that I don’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of closing up that hatch and your feelings at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were joking about it. I remember that the Russians were talking—I have to think real hard about this—and I took Anatoly and Nikolai over some tortillas. They liked American food, and we had a lot of food left over and we were trying to find stowage volume for foam that we were bringing back, that had been in the Spektr module, where we’d had experiments, and we couldn’t jettison it overboard. So we were trying to find places for this foam, and we had extra food; we’d left it with them. I remember finding some tortillas, which Anatoly really liked, some of the great big soft Mexican tortillas. I took it over to him, so I was on the Mir side and we were getting close to hatch-closing. We’d already enabled the Russians, I was on the headset where I could hear both, and someone from the ground asked—I guess they saw me on camera—asked me which side of the hatch was I going to stay on, and I said, “Oh, I think I’ll stay on the Mir side.” Of course, they knew I was joking. [Laughs] I said, “Unfortunately, I’m going to be going to the U.S. side.” So I shook hands with them, and we closed the hatch and started the separation operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what you spent some of your free time doing with the various crews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before flight or during flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before or during flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 19.2051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all do, yes, do it as a crew and you do it as an individual. We’re always invited back to our home states, and I always went back to Washington state to talk about the flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any PR in Russia after this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went back, of course, and we did some debriefing, but they don’t do the kind of post-flight tours we do, or like the Germans did. We did a German post-flight tour with the whole crew that was quite remarkable, and saw a lot of Germany, but it wasn’t quite the same in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also noticed, when I was looking through some of the materials, that you took up a Houston Rockets guard uniform."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Anatoly loved basketball. I wasn’t part of this; it was arranged by some other folks on the crew, but I think they were getting ready to reveal their new uniform logo, and so they gave Anatoly the opportunity to wear the shirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How neat. We have about twenty more minutes left, so do you want to talk about your work with the Mission Operations Directorate [MOD] in ’95, when you were working as an Assistant Director?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00140:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went back, of course, and we did some debriefing, but they don’t do the kind of post-flight tours we do, or like the Germans did. We did a German post-flight tour with the whole crew that was quite remarkable, and saw a lot of Germany, but it wasn’t quite the same in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also noticed, when I was looking through some of the materials, that you took up a Houston Rockets guard uniform."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Anatoly loved basketball. I wasn’t part of this; it was arranged by some other folks on the crew, but I think they were getting ready to reveal their new uniform logo, and so they gave Anatoly the opportunity to wear the shirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How neat. We have about twenty more minutes left, so do you want to talk about your work with the Mission Operations Directorate [MOD] in ’95, when you were working as an Assistant Director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I came off of STS-71 in ’95, and then I started working on I think it was the Soyuz TM development. We flew in what was called a Soyuz T, or that’s what I trained in, and the U.S. part of Phase 1 and on to Station was investing in some modifications to Soyuz, some upgrades on the displays and sizing and so forth. So because I had trained on Soyuz, I was asked to be part of that group. I was working on that into the fall, and then I received a call from Jim [D.] Shannon, who was Deputy Director of MOD. Jim had actually been one of my early bosses when I was a payload officer in MOD. He asked if I’d come over and help them, kind of help coordinate the training for ISS, “Look at what we’re doing, run a board, do a gap analysis and see how we could do things better.”\\n\\n And I said, “Sounds like a great opportunity to me.” So I became Assistant Director in MOD, and was there until early ’97."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of recommendations did you make?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00022:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 84.686307006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were splashdown parties at the end of the Apollo Program, at the end of each mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there parties at the end of each successful Shuttle mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one for STS-1 that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00022:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 90.76256334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there parties at the end of each successful Shuttle mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one for STS-1 that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was. Oh, boy, was there. I don’t know that there’s anything particular to tell about it. But, no, there were some great parties. I actually don’t remember exactly all of those things, partly because after STS-1 we were then working pretty hard on STS-2, and then I was assigned to spaceflight. So I was now not thinking so much about partying, but about getting ready. The date of STS-1 was what, Jennifer? In the spring of ’81?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t have the exact date with me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00022:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 100.8472926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one for STS-1 that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was. Oh, boy, was there. I don’t know that there’s anything particular to tell about it. But, no, there were some great parties. I actually don’t remember exactly all of those things, partly because after STS-1 we were then working pretty hard on STS-2, and then I was assigned to spaceflight. So I was now not thinking so much about partying, but about getting ready. The date of STS-1 was what, Jennifer? In the spring of ’81?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t have the exact date with me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spring of ’81, something like that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00022:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 33, "return_to_go": 108.719214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was. Oh, boy, was there. I don’t know that there’s anything particular to tell about it. But, no, there were some great parties. I actually don’t remember exactly all of those things, partly because after STS-1 we were then working pretty hard on STS-2, and then I was assigned to spaceflight. So I was now not thinking so much about partying, but about getting ready. The date of STS-1 was what, Jennifer? In the spring of ’81?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t have the exact date with me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spring of ’81, something like that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because then I flew in the fall of ’82, so we were a year and a half away and we were going to fly STS-2, -3, and –4. So they’re going to come off pretty quickly in that year and a half. We had time for some parties, but not for a lot of parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell me about the day you finally heard you were going to be put on a flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00773:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.01083447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would at least take fifteen minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Cosmonaut Corps in 1965. In 1975, I flew to the orbital station Salyut 5 and Soyuz 24. The mission was not that long, but for that time it was considered quite long; it lasted eighteen days.\\n\\n After a while, being a member of the Cosmonaut Corps, I transferred to work with the training. I was the head of the Department of Training, where I had all the instructors who trained to fly on Soyuz or Salyut and then later on the Mir station. I was the deputy heading the science department. Then I headed the training department, and now I'm the first deputy at the Russian State Research Gagarin Training Center.\\n\\n As far as my educational background, I have a doctorate. I'm a professor and academician, and I am an author as well. I published a book. But I think that's plenty. How much can I talk about myself? (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a specific question about your Soyuz 24 flight to the Salyut 5 space station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We read in one of the books that it was reported that you caught a cold on flight and you came up with an idea of how to cure yourself of the cold by sunbathing in front of the window. Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00773:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 40.0120383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Cosmonaut Corps in 1965. In 1975, I flew to the orbital station Salyut 5 and Soyuz 24. The mission was not that long, but for that time it was considered quite long; it lasted eighteen days.\\n\\n After a while, being a member of the Cosmonaut Corps, I transferred to work with the training. I was the head of the Department of Training, where I had all the instructors who trained to fly on Soyuz or Salyut and then later on the Mir station. I was the deputy heading the science department. Then I headed the training department, and now I'm the first deputy at the Russian State Research Gagarin Training Center.\\n\\n As far as my educational background, I have a doctorate. I'm a professor and academician, and I am an author as well. I published a book. But I think that's plenty. How much can I talk about myself? (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a specific question about your Soyuz 24 flight to the Salyut 5 space station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We read in one of the books that it was reported that you caught a cold on flight and you came up with an idea of how to cure yourself of the cold by sunbathing in front of the window. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is very simple, a very simple cure. You just put your nose to the window and the solar arrays cure your cold. It's very simple, and I suggest to anybody who has a cold, try to fly up there. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also the book mentioned that on your flight that you had to exchange some of the air in the Salyut space station, and that almost created a breeze by opening the dump valve on one end and intake valve on the other to move the air through there. Could you talk about that a little bit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 39.43788432233755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m just a kid who’s an engineer out here, and to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were very young. You were nineteen, right after your freshman year when you first came out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, nineteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other co-ops that young, or was that common for them to come after their freshman year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. There were a lot of co-ops. I would bet there were three hundred probably at that point, at least, and we were everywhere. We didn’t go anywhere and work on something without rubbing elbows with other co-ops. It was a very active program, and there were a lot of social activities. The co-op office, rightly, did a lot of work to pair people up to be roommates, so it was a pretty tight-knit community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you came?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.70876035815283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, nineteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other co-ops that young, or was that common for them to come after their freshman year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. There were a lot of co-ops. I would bet there were three hundred probably at that point, at least, and we were everywhere. We didn’t go anywhere and work on something without rubbing elbows with other co-ops. It was a very active program, and there were a lot of social activities. The co-op office, rightly, did a lot of work to pair people up to be roommates, so it was a pretty tight-knit community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived—the first summer I was here in ’67—in Nassau Bay. It was called the San Sebastian. It’s still there. It’s called something different now. And then every semester after that I ended up living near Hobby Airport in the Villa Monterrey apartments. I don’t remember how—there was an Air Force lieutenant here named Kerry Sandstrom—somehow I was tagged up with him and so we lived together for the semesters I was here. He was here full-time, of course, with the Air Force, but the next three or four semesters I lived with him up near Hobby Airport and drove down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned, and I’ve read this in other interviews, that NASA routinely threw people in over their heads."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.34306706461425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. There were a lot of co-ops. I would bet there were three hundred probably at that point, at least, and we were everywhere. We didn’t go anywhere and work on something without rubbing elbows with other co-ops. It was a very active program, and there were a lot of social activities. The co-op office, rightly, did a lot of work to pair people up to be roommates, so it was a pretty tight-knit community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived—the first summer I was here in ’67—in Nassau Bay. It was called the San Sebastian. It’s still there. It’s called something different now. And then every semester after that I ended up living near Hobby Airport in the Villa Monterrey apartments. I don’t remember how—there was an Air Force lieutenant here named Kerry Sandstrom—somehow I was tagged up with him and so we lived together for the semesters I was here. He was here full-time, of course, with the Air Force, but the next three or four semesters I lived with him up near Hobby Airport and drove down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned, and I’ve read this in other interviews, that NASA routinely threw people in over their heads."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And expected results and then gave help as needed. Was that something that you had to adapt to, or how did you feel about that when you first came?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.38118562734917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived—the first summer I was here in ’67—in Nassau Bay. It was called the San Sebastian. It’s still there. It’s called something different now. And then every semester after that I ended up living near Hobby Airport in the Villa Monterrey apartments. I don’t remember how—there was an Air Force lieutenant here named Kerry Sandstrom—somehow I was tagged up with him and so we lived together for the semesters I was here. He was here full-time, of course, with the Air Force, but the next three or four semesters I lived with him up near Hobby Airport and drove down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned, and I’ve read this in other interviews, that NASA routinely threw people in over their heads."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And expected results and then gave help as needed. Was that something that you had to adapt to, or how did you feel about that when you first came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think I ever knew it was happening. I was that clueless. I was just a wide-eyed kid. Sure, do it. I was given something to do, so my assumption was, “Well, they assume I can do it, so I will.” And of course, sometimes I couldn’t, so I would—but it was a very tight-knit group of people and I always knew that people were there to help and they were always, “How you doing?” It was just a wonderful environment. And I can articulate it today in hindsight that that’s what happened, but I wouldn’t have said it necessarily at the time. It was “isn’t that how work is?” I knew nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an opportunity for you to learn."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.867984030387966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And expected results and then gave help as needed. Was that something that you had to adapt to, or how did you feel about that when you first came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think I ever knew it was happening. I was that clueless. I was just a wide-eyed kid. Sure, do it. I was given something to do, so my assumption was, “Well, they assume I can do it, so I will.” And of course, sometimes I couldn’t, so I would—but it was a very tight-knit group of people and I always knew that people were there to help and they were always, “How you doing?” It was just a wonderful environment. And I can articulate it today in hindsight that that’s what happened, but I wouldn’t have said it necessarily at the time. It was “isn’t that how work is?” I knew nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an opportunity for you to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I learned so much. Not just technical things, but about people and how things work. How people work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To be twenty or twenty-one and working with Max Faget."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 49.85331558931996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think I ever knew it was happening. I was that clueless. I was just a wide-eyed kid. Sure, do it. I was given something to do, so my assumption was, “Well, they assume I can do it, so I will.” And of course, sometimes I couldn’t, so I would—but it was a very tight-knit group of people and I always knew that people were there to help and they were always, “How you doing?” It was just a wonderful environment. And I can articulate it today in hindsight that that’s what happened, but I wouldn’t have said it necessarily at the time. It was “isn’t that how work is?” I knew nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an opportunity for you to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I learned so much. Not just technical things, but about people and how things work. How people work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To be twenty or twenty-one and working with Max Faget."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. A lot of this I have to pinch myself even to remember was real. It’s just incredible, because, as any young person, you launch yourself down a path and who knows what’s going to happen. But to have had all this happen, that’s just amazing. My whole career is that, I have to pinch myself to think of all the things I’ve done and how thankful I am for it and the people that made that happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were beginning to talk about when you first came on full-time in 1971 and how you continued working on what you’d worked on earlier. In 1971, that was a time period, ’71, at the end of Apollo, ’72, when not as many people were being hired. In fact, they were scaling down because of budget.\\n\\n What was that experience like, for one, being hired during that time period, and why do you think you were retained during that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 39.31002102198631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Shuttle itself, no. The biggest thrill, slash, heart stopper was that first flight, STS-1. Boy, when you’re a young engineer, one has confidence in equations and tests, but the more experience one gets: okay, I’ve thought of everything I could think through. We’ve had these reviewed by the smartest engineers in the country, and I’ve done everything I can with each one of these pieces, and I’ve thought through how they all come together. And now you’re actually going to launch it? Because then your image is the boosters come off, they come through the wings or something, or they don’t come off. Because these are 200,000 lb boosters, so they’re starting to fly around, and they’re flying around the vehicle with the crew in it. The launch of STS-1 was an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you moved into the Integrated Entry Analysis Branch, that was before the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. I don’t know. I lose track of what the organizational—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all the same thing, basically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called, as I recall, the Engineering Analysis Division, which had aerodynamics, had trajectories, had the separation stuff, had the “dirty,” not discipline-specific kind of stuff. But then that—the Shuttle, the separation system experience—laid the foundation for what was to come next at Shuttle. We get through STS-1, breathe a huge sigh of relief, and then, of course, start to get the data now of what did actually happen on the flight to look and see how it compared to what we predicted. It looked good and the SRB separation system has worked on every flight since. [knocks on table] Thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you during the launch of STS-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.62951389000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, although many people did. In fact, the crew on the airplane had a ritual. You’re wearing a flight suit, of course, and they require, rightly, that everyone have a barf bag in their pocket. Then what they will do—one learns, after the fact—one of them will pretend to get sick into their [bag] and then reach in and pick out something. What they had in there was fruit cocktail. At that point, if you’re anywhere near gonna, you do. [laughs] They’d be, “Oh, Bob, look what I had today.” [laughter] Typical test jokers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pilot humor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pilot humor, which for those of us that didn’t tend to get sick was, I guess, at least okay, but for those that were right on the edge and then lost it, it was, oh, no. Then you’re a member of the club once you’ve done that, and they give you a certificate. One certificate if you didn’t get sick, and one if you did. So it’s fun, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of those experiences you really didn’t expect to have when you first started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. Yes. Who would have thought I would ever have a chance to go and walk around a launch vehicle or climb in the Orbiter cockpit as soon as it landed or fly weightless. I mean who would have thought?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the relationship like, especially when you were on that debris assessment team with the crews themselves and the astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.92168210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pilot humor, which for those of us that didn’t tend to get sick was, I guess, at least okay, but for those that were right on the edge and then lost it, it was, oh, no. Then you’re a member of the club once you’ve done that, and they give you a certificate. One certificate if you didn’t get sick, and one if you did. So it’s fun, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of those experiences you really didn’t expect to have when you first started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. Yes. Who would have thought I would ever have a chance to go and walk around a launch vehicle or climb in the Orbiter cockpit as soon as it landed or fly weightless. I mean who would have thought?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the relationship like, especially when you were on that debris assessment team with the crews themselves and the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really didn’t have much of one. They were, of course, very interested in what we were finding. But we would often go out at about the same time the flight crew was going out and we would see each other out there, but we had certainly no real interaction on the pad because they were very focused and had their team getting them installed, and we were off in other parts of the pad doing other things. The main interaction was the regular programmatic interaction between a team doing something and the crew in the flight office wanting to know what we were finding and what the program’s going to do about it. It was more that kind of an interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were inspecting the vehicle after landing, was that when the crew was still on before they came off or after they had already left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 58.80186900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. Yes. Who would have thought I would ever have a chance to go and walk around a launch vehicle or climb in the Orbiter cockpit as soon as it landed or fly weightless. I mean who would have thought?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the relationship like, especially when you were on that debris assessment team with the crews themselves and the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really didn’t have much of one. They were, of course, very interested in what we were finding. But we would often go out at about the same time the flight crew was going out and we would see each other out there, but we had certainly no real interaction on the pad because they were very focused and had their team getting them installed, and we were off in other parts of the pad doing other things. The main interaction was the regular programmatic interaction between a team doing something and the crew in the flight office wanting to know what we were finding and what the program’s going to do about it. It was more that kind of an interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were inspecting the vehicle after landing, was that when the crew was still on before they came off or after they had already left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They had been removed from the vehicle, and the vehicle had been declared safe, because there are all kinds of dangerous propellants and things that could leak out. So the first, literally the first, people that go out there are in SCAPE [Self Contained Atmospheric Protective Ensemble] suits and they’re really protected. Once they’ve done all their sniffing and everything looks okay, then it was cleared for us to go out, because the last thing you want to do is have somebody maimed that’s on the debris team. Again, like falling off the edge of the Mobile Launch Platform. Oops, there’s one of our debris guys passed out under the fume of noxious odors out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a good picture."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 65.33541000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really didn’t have much of one. They were, of course, very interested in what we were finding. But we would often go out at about the same time the flight crew was going out and we would see each other out there, but we had certainly no real interaction on the pad because they were very focused and had their team getting them installed, and we were off in other parts of the pad doing other things. The main interaction was the regular programmatic interaction between a team doing something and the crew in the flight office wanting to know what we were finding and what the program’s going to do about it. It was more that kind of an interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were inspecting the vehicle after landing, was that when the crew was still on before they came off or after they had already left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They had been removed from the vehicle, and the vehicle had been declared safe, because there are all kinds of dangerous propellants and things that could leak out. So the first, literally the first, people that go out there are in SCAPE [Self Contained Atmospheric Protective Ensemble] suits and they’re really protected. Once they’ve done all their sniffing and everything looks okay, then it was cleared for us to go out, because the last thing you want to do is have somebody maimed that’s on the debris team. Again, like falling off the edge of the Mobile Launch Platform. Oops, there’s one of our debris guys passed out under the fume of noxious odors out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a good picture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a good picture. And not something we wanted for ourselves, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memories during that time period you’d like to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 72.59490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They had been removed from the vehicle, and the vehicle had been declared safe, because there are all kinds of dangerous propellants and things that could leak out. So the first, literally the first, people that go out there are in SCAPE [Self Contained Atmospheric Protective Ensemble] suits and they’re really protected. Once they’ve done all their sniffing and everything looks okay, then it was cleared for us to go out, because the last thing you want to do is have somebody maimed that’s on the debris team. Again, like falling off the edge of the Mobile Launch Platform. Oops, there’s one of our debris guys passed out under the fume of noxious odors out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a good picture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a good picture. And not something we wanted for ourselves, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memories during that time period you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s probably a pretty good summary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, do you want to move on now to that first experience with Headquarters and how that came about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 66, "return_to_go": 80.661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a good picture. And not something we wanted for ourselves, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memories during that time period you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s probably a pretty good summary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, do you want to move on now to that first experience with Headquarters and how that came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be great. May I take one break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. It’s a good time.\\n\\n [pause]\n\nWhen we stopped, we were getting ready to talk about your first experience with Headquarters, and if you want to go ahead and talk about that and how that came about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00130:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s a whole another chapter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you want to stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The clouds part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. [laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The positive experiences begin to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So we can go ahead and stop for today if that’s okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.86905682387958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do your assignments work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until just recently there were three NASA suit technicians, and we had three or four contractor suit technicians. Every third flight a NASA suit technician was considered the lead. Then we had a Lockheed tech, and they rotated, too, so we would have a different one each time. We would be a team from this side of the group. Then Boeing would assign, depending on the size of the crew, anywhere from four to five technicians to work with that crew. Those technicians would try to work with the same crewman each time. Of course, sometimes that worked out and sometimes it didn't, so they'd see familiar faces at all the training exercises and know who to go to with questions. That's basically how it's always worked in the past.\\n\\n We're in the middle of a transition right now. They're turning all the suit tech jobs over to USA (United Space Alliance), because the Shuttle Program is going to be run by the contractors. Two of our NASA suit techs retired in December, so now we're bringing the Lockheed people up to be lead suit techs in charge of the overall mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Al Rochford and Troy Stewart retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rochford and Stewart, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been with NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 36.52117424875509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until just recently there were three NASA suit technicians, and we had three or four contractor suit technicians. Every third flight a NASA suit technician was considered the lead. Then we had a Lockheed tech, and they rotated, too, so we would have a different one each time. We would be a team from this side of the group. Then Boeing would assign, depending on the size of the crew, anywhere from four to five technicians to work with that crew. Those technicians would try to work with the same crewman each time. Of course, sometimes that worked out and sometimes it didn't, so they'd see familiar faces at all the training exercises and know who to go to with questions. That's basically how it's always worked in the past.\\n\\n We're in the middle of a transition right now. They're turning all the suit tech jobs over to USA (United Space Alliance), because the Shuttle Program is going to be run by the contractors. Two of our NASA suit techs retired in December, so now we're bringing the Lockheed people up to be lead suit techs in charge of the overall mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Al Rochford and Troy Stewart retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rochford and Stewart, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been with NASA since 1965. I've been in this area working with crew escape since 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first four missions, where the crews actually wore pressure suits, did you participate in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.801304720838985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rochford and Stewart, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been with NASA since 1965. I've been in this area working with crew escape since 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first four missions, where the crews actually wore pressure suits, did you participate in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was lucky; I came on just at the right time. I got to support the STS-1 landing at Edwards Air Force Base with Al Rochford. That's been the most exciting thing that I have done. I love what I do, doing the strap-ins and stuff, but the STS-1 landing was the most exciting thing that I've ever been in. Al Rochford was the lead for the land portion of that. Joe Schmitt was the lead for the strap-in portion. He strapped in Bob Crippen and John Young. Al and I were out at Edwards to recover them when they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you participated in the landing. What goes on there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.33478302315443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been with NASA since 1965. I've been in this area working with crew escape since 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first four missions, where the crews actually wore pressure suits, did you participate in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was lucky; I came on just at the right time. I got to support the STS-1 landing at Edwards Air Force Base with Al Rochford. That's been the most exciting thing that I have done. I love what I do, doing the strap-ins and stuff, but the STS-1 landing was the most exciting thing that I've ever been in. Al Rochford was the lead for the land portion of that. Joe Schmitt was the lead for the strap-in portion. He strapped in Bob Crippen and John Young. Al and I were out at Edwards to recover them when they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you participated in the landing. What goes on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now, the way we have it set up, there's a crew transfer vehicle called the CTV, that actually pulls up to the orbiter and makes a little walkway over to the orbiter hatch area. We open the hatch, the crew comes out, they walk across this walkway and they're right inside this big room. It's a mobile platform. It's like a big trailer house on high that can be jacked up.\\n\\n They come inside the CTV and then they take the suits off and get their land legs back and the doctors check them out. If there's any medical experiments that have to be done after landing, there's gurneys. They do blood draws, whatever they require for that specific mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the mission's completed, what do you do with the suits? Do you break them down, analyze them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were kind of worried, whether he was going to be able to do everything that he needed to be able to do. Right after the first few events, it was very obvious that he was going to be able to do anything that he needed to do. He's really good about asking questions and understanding everything. Some people look it over while you're trying to explain it. It's like, \"Yes, yes, yes, okay, I got that.\" Then they go out to do it and they really can't do it, because they really didn't get all the instruction. He's real good about listening and has a lot of patience. He does really well in training, therefore, because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does he ever bring up any stories of his previous flight or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He does talk about it. He's willing to sit down if you ask him any questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific then, you have a chance to work with him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your official capacity, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00029:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He does talk about it. He's willing to sit down if you ask him any questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific then, you have a chance to work with him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your official capacity, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's been really interesting. I got to do quite a few of the Mir flights, too. I was either there for the launch or for the landings. That was real interesting. I got to the flight that launched Shannon Lucid, and then I was there when she came home, too. So things like that are real special, I think. I like doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So have any of you had a chance to work with some of the cosmonauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4780459480613617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit louder?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What years was that where you were studying, your internship at Kaiser in San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'63 to'64 I was at Kaiser. Graduated from medical school in Montreal in 1963 and took the one-year rotating internship. It was during that year that the Peace Corps became available and I signed up right away. They gave us choices of which countries we wanted to go to, and I had had a Ethiopian colleague in my class at McGill with me, a very nice fellow, who actually went on to have a very successful career in the United States as a surgeon. So I was interested in Ethiopia because of him. So Ethiopia was my first choice, and Afghanistan was my second choice, and Tanzania was my third choice. But I got my first choice for Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so you had this opportunity and you were eager to take advantage of the situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect for my interests. In addition, it took care of the Vietnam War for me as well. Because at that time, I don't know if it's still true now, at that time physicians like myself who were in the Peace Corps were members of the Public Health Service. So the Public Health Service is a military service and that counted as military obligation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I see. So not all Peace Corps volunteers had that option."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8644954978459576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'63 to'64 I was at Kaiser. Graduated from medical school in Montreal in 1963 and took the one-year rotating internship. It was during that year that the Peace Corps became available and I signed up right away. They gave us choices of which countries we wanted to go to, and I had had a Ethiopian colleague in my class at McGill with me, a very nice fellow, who actually went on to have a very successful career in the United States as a surgeon. So I was interested in Ethiopia because of him. So Ethiopia was my first choice, and Afghanistan was my second choice, and Tanzania was my third choice. But I got my first choice for Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so you had this opportunity and you were eager to take advantage of the situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect for my interests. In addition, it took care of the Vietnam War for me as well. Because at that time, I don't know if it's still true now, at that time physicians like myself who were in the Peace Corps were members of the Public Health Service. So the Public Health Service is a military service and that counted as military obligation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I see. So not all Peace Corps volunteers had that option."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just physicians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the physicians did. Right. Very fortunate for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.293883886495508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect for my interests. In addition, it took care of the Vietnam War for me as well. Because at that time, I don't know if it's still true now, at that time physicians like myself who were in the Peace Corps were members of the Public Health Service. So the Public Health Service is a military service and that counted as military obligation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I see. So not all Peace Corps volunteers had that option."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just physicians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the physicians did. Right. Very fortunate for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So did you have to wait quite a while before Peace Corps responded to your application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7709820961061205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just physicians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the physicians did. Right. Very fortunate for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So did you have to wait quite a while before Peace Corps responded to your application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They responded, I think, very quickly. I don't remember any wait at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3010912178956895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So did you have to wait quite a while before Peace Corps responded to your application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They responded, I think, very quickly. I don't remember any wait at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it wasn't a question of whether I was going in the Peace Corps or not. The only question is what country I was going to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know that country as soon as you finished your internship?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.778990242106322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They responded, I think, very quickly. I don't remember any wait at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it wasn't a question of whether I was going in the Peace Corps or not. The only question is what country I was going to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know that country as soon as you finished your internship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, by, I'm guessing by four or five months before the end of my internship, I knew where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Right. So what did your family think about this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.309989157895913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it wasn't a question of whether I was going in the Peace Corps or not. The only question is what country I was going to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know that country as soon as you finished your internship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, by, I'm guessing by four or five months before the end of my internship, I knew where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Right. So what did your family think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family had no idea what I was doing. My mother had high school education. She had not been college educated. She had no particular interest in what I was interested in. Both my sisters had no particular interest in it. They all thought I was a little strange to be doing this, but it was OK. I was the only male in the family. I could basically do what I wanted to do, but they certainly didn't encourage me or they just didn't discourage me either. It just was something they didn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh. And what about your extended family or the community back in Clinton? Did you have friends there that, how did they respond?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7888768421065695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, by, I'm guessing by four or five months before the end of my internship, I knew where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Right. So what did your family think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family had no idea what I was doing. My mother had high school education. She had not been college educated. She had no particular interest in what I was interested in. Both my sisters had no particular interest in it. They all thought I was a little strange to be doing this, but it was OK. I was the only male in the family. I could basically do what I wanted to do, but they certainly didn't encourage me or they just didn't discourage me either. It just was something they didn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh. And what about your extended family or the community back in Clinton? Did you have friends there that, how did they respond?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the response. I had a very extensive social network there. Kennedy was very popular, so this was kind of a Kennedy program. So insofar as I understood what Kennedy was trying, it was probably OK. Peace Corps was, Peace Corps was becoming popular at that time. So I don't remember anybody else from my town going into Peace Corps, but I certainly don't remember being discouraged in any way from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right. Right. So it was a very exciting time for you to do this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.912193632230332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the response. I had a very extensive social network there. Kennedy was very popular, so this was kind of a Kennedy program. So insofar as I understood what Kennedy was trying, it was probably OK. Peace Corps was, Peace Corps was becoming popular at that time. So I don't remember anybody else from my town going into Peace Corps, but I certainly don't remember being discouraged in any way from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right. Right. So it was a very exciting time for you to do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Since you're a teenager."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.299004484234978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Since you're a teenager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect, exactly. So what about training? Tell me what, how did Peace Corps train doctors at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.110004982483309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect, exactly. So what about training? Tell me what, how did Peace Corps train doctors at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been very well trained at McGill, and McGill had an excellent. The excellent medical school is one of the reasons I went there, besides the fact that it was really inexpensive. And I had a good internship, I had done some surgery. I felt I could manage if I had to in the bush. I had had good training in tropical medicine. I was particularly interested in infectious agents and tropical diseases, so I felt comfortable in going and treating conditions as we found them in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, but at this point, it sounds like your tropical medicine was through, was theory only. You had not yet been in the tropics, is that true?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.011116647203677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect, exactly. So what about training? Tell me what, how did Peace Corps train doctors at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been very well trained at McGill, and McGill had an excellent. The excellent medical school is one of the reasons I went there, besides the fact that it was really inexpensive. And I had a good internship, I had done some surgery. I felt I could manage if I had to in the bush. I had had good training in tropical medicine. I was particularly interested in infectious agents and tropical diseases, so I felt comfortable in going and treating conditions as we found them in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, but at this point, it sounds like your tropical medicine was through, was theory only. You had not yet been in the tropics, is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not been outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So it was all book learning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.012351830226308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been very well trained at McGill, and McGill had an excellent. The excellent medical school is one of the reasons I went there, besides the fact that it was really inexpensive. And I had a good internship, I had done some surgery. I felt I could manage if I had to in the bush. I had had good training in tropical medicine. I was particularly interested in infectious agents and tropical diseases, so I felt comfortable in going and treating conditions as we found them in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, but at this point, it sounds like your tropical medicine was through, was theory only. You had not yet been in the tropics, is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not been outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So it was all book learning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All book learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. OK, so you had this strong background training already from in medical school and your internship."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.12483536691812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not been outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So it was all book learning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All book learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. OK, so you had this strong background training already from in medical school and your internship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did Peace Corps send you then initially, so to induct you, if you will, and to give you some orientation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.027594852131244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All book learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. OK, so you had this strong background training already from in medical school and your internship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did Peace Corps send you then initially, so to induct you, if you will, and to give you some orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Washington for maybe two or three days of orientation. And then we went to, the doctors who were going out in my group at the same time to various countries, went to Columbia for a two- day course in tropical medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Columbia University?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.030660946812493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did Peace Corps send you then initially, so to induct you, if you will, and to give you some orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Washington for maybe two or three days of orientation. And then we went to, the doctors who were going out in my group at the same time to various countries, went to Columbia for a two- day course in tropical medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Columbia University?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Columbia University, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New York. Uh huh. Two days."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.148964131867274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Columbia University, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New York. Uh huh. Two days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two days if I remember, I think Washington was only two or three days. It was all very brief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No language training. And was there an explanation for why you did not have language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.387737924296971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two days if I remember, I think Washington was only two or three days. It was all very brief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No language training. And was there an explanation for why you did not have language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the volunteers did, but the doctors. The doctors were primarily responsible for the volunteers, so some of us got very, very much involved in other things. But the doctors were not necessarily expected to do a lot of things in the host country. They're expected to keep the staff and volunteers healthy and alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you'd be working, you knew you'd be working primarily with Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.764153249218856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No language training. And was there an explanation for why you did not have language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the volunteers did, but the doctors. The doctors were primarily responsible for the volunteers, so some of us got very, very much involved in other things. But the doctors were not necessarily expected to do a lot of things in the host country. They're expected to keep the staff and volunteers healthy and alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you'd be working, you knew you'd be working primarily with Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my job. I ended up doing much, much more than that. But the primary job was. These were very healthy young kids, right out of college. Keeping them healthy really wasn't that big a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, let's think about if you can remember back to those very first days. Tell me about landing in Ethiopia. What was, what did you see? What was your experience? How did it feel to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.071281388020951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the volunteers did, but the doctors. The doctors were primarily responsible for the volunteers, so some of us got very, very much involved in other things. But the doctors were not necessarily expected to do a lot of things in the host country. They're expected to keep the staff and volunteers healthy and alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you'd be working, you knew you'd be working primarily with Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my job. I ended up doing much, much more than that. But the primary job was. These were very healthy young kids, right out of college. Keeping them healthy really wasn't that big a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, let's think about if you can remember back to those very first days. Tell me about landing in Ethiopia. What was, what did you see? What was your experience? How did it feel to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very exciting. It looked just the way it should. I was initially assigned to Dire Dawa, which is the main city, not that large at that time but it is now, on the eastern side of Ethiopia towards Somalia. And there were camels going down the street and flame trees, and it looked just like it should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very interesting statement. And what do you think? How did you have an image of what it should look like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.079201542245501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my job. I ended up doing much, much more than that. But the primary job was. These were very healthy young kids, right out of college. Keeping them healthy really wasn't that big a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, let's think about if you can remember back to those very first days. Tell me about landing in Ethiopia. What was, what did you see? What was your experience? How did it feel to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very exciting. It looked just the way it should. I was initially assigned to Dire Dawa, which is the main city, not that large at that time but it is now, on the eastern side of Ethiopia towards Somalia. And there were camels going down the street and flame trees, and it looked just like it should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very interesting statement. And what do you think? How did you have an image of what it should look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It should look exotic, should look with camels. One of my first patients, I immediately volunteered at the hospital there. So there's one hospital that covered this huge area of Dire Dawa that included a lot of the Somali region of Ethiopia. One of my first patients was a 12 year old boy, probably 12 year old boy, who had come been herding his goats over the hill and had suddenly come upon a lion. The lion must have eaten recently because he just went like this to the boy, like just opened up his chest all the way down to the bones on it. So I don't remember. I don't remember having a course on this in medical school. But what you did was you treated it as any kind of wound and sewed them up, and he had a magnificent scar by the time we were finished on it. But this was one of my first patients and I felt this is really Africa, this is the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a scary and exciting challenge, really."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.088001713606111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very exciting. It looked just the way it should. I was initially assigned to Dire Dawa, which is the main city, not that large at that time but it is now, on the eastern side of Ethiopia towards Somalia. And there were camels going down the street and flame trees, and it looked just like it should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very interesting statement. And what do you think? How did you have an image of what it should look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It should look exotic, should look with camels. One of my first patients, I immediately volunteered at the hospital there. So there's one hospital that covered this huge area of Dire Dawa that included a lot of the Somali region of Ethiopia. One of my first patients was a 12 year old boy, probably 12 year old boy, who had come been herding his goats over the hill and had suddenly come upon a lion. The lion must have eaten recently because he just went like this to the boy, like just opened up his chest all the way down to the bones on it. So I don't remember. I don't remember having a course on this in medical school. But what you did was you treated it as any kind of wound and sewed them up, and he had a magnificent scar by the time we were finished on it. But this was one of my first patients and I felt this is really Africa, this is the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a scary and exciting challenge, really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The little boy did very well, actually, but he was, I don't know whether he was more frightened of the lion or me. This was when there were about 25 million people in Ethiopia, there's probably four times that now. And it was, you know, not very far from the 16th century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did this little boy come to the hospital by himself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.208890792895678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It should look exotic, should look with camels. One of my first patients, I immediately volunteered at the hospital there. So there's one hospital that covered this huge area of Dire Dawa that included a lot of the Somali region of Ethiopia. One of my first patients was a 12 year old boy, probably 12 year old boy, who had come been herding his goats over the hill and had suddenly come upon a lion. The lion must have eaten recently because he just went like this to the boy, like just opened up his chest all the way down to the bones on it. So I don't remember. I don't remember having a course on this in medical school. But what you did was you treated it as any kind of wound and sewed them up, and he had a magnificent scar by the time we were finished on it. But this was one of my first patients and I felt this is really Africa, this is the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a scary and exciting challenge, really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The little boy did very well, actually, but he was, I don't know whether he was more frightened of the lion or me. This was when there were about 25 million people in Ethiopia, there's probably four times that now. And it was, you know, not very far from the 16th century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did this little boy come to the hospital by himself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He brought in by his family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By his family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.232100880995198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The little boy did very well, actually, but he was, I don't know whether he was more frightened of the lion or me. This was when there were about 25 million people in Ethiopia, there's probably four times that now. And it was, you know, not very far from the 16th century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did this little boy come to the hospital by himself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He brought in by his family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By his family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were basically Somali nomads. That's where I spent the first three months, was in Dire Dawa. After that, I worked out of Addis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are there other early patients that you remember that, from whom, with whom you learned a great deal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.286544297524934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were basically Somali nomads. That's where I spent the first three months, was in Dire Dawa. After that, I worked out of Addis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are there other early patients that you remember that, from whom, with whom you learned a great deal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a nurses training program in Dessie, one of the first nurses training programs in the country, had about half dozen Peace Corps nurses up there. They had a doctor and I went up to help them out. Did an emergency caesarean section under open drop ether anesthesia, which also was not something you got taught in medical school to do. And you only did it when clearly her life was in danger. You had no choice, you're going to lose her. And she pulled through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I certainly remember that. We had a fair number of memorable cases. We had one death. We had a volunteer eaten by a crocodile. He was swimming in Abaro River where he wasn't supposed to be swimming on vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a tragedy. What a tragedy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.366104071018437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I certainly remember that. We had a fair number of memorable cases. We had one death. We had a volunteer eaten by a crocodile. He was swimming in Abaro River where he wasn't supposed to be swimming on vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a tragedy. What a tragedy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tragedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about six or seven others. They're in a line swimming out to an island in the village that we had no volunteers. The villagers had told them, don't swim in the river, there's crocodiles in the river. They, of course, being immortal, felt that it didn't apply to them. So they're swimming in a line up to the island in the middle of the Abaro River and suddenly, he was in the middle of the line, suddenly he disappears. And he surfaces down river in the mouth of the crocodile. The other volunteers were just mildly a little upset, and so I had to do some group therapy on them afterwards to have them resolve the whole thing. He was our only death. Otherwise, we had the ability to evacuate very sick volunteers to the Army base in Germany, which we probably did once every three or four months, somebody who was very sick and where we could not manage them given the resources that we had there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kinds of sickness did the volunteers have who needed to go to Germany?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.073448967798265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tragedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about six or seven others. They're in a line swimming out to an island in the village that we had no volunteers. The villagers had told them, don't swim in the river, there's crocodiles in the river. They, of course, being immortal, felt that it didn't apply to them. So they're swimming in a line up to the island in the middle of the Abaro River and suddenly, he was in the middle of the line, suddenly he disappears. And he surfaces down river in the mouth of the crocodile. The other volunteers were just mildly a little upset, and so I had to do some group therapy on them afterwards to have them resolve the whole thing. He was our only death. Otherwise, we had the ability to evacuate very sick volunteers to the Army base in Germany, which we probably did once every three or four months, somebody who was very sick and where we could not manage them given the resources that we had there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kinds of sickness did the volunteers have who needed to go to Germany?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Volunteers had been trained in UCLA. They had good language training. They were a healthy self-selected group, I'd say a very strong group, relatively few weak volunteers. We put the strongest volunteers out in some of the more remote villages. That's how David and Courtney [Arnold] end up in the village that I, actually it's one of the first villages I was asked to go to, was the first Peace Corps person who went to the village, talked to the principal of the school and made a decision as to whether that was going to be an appropriate village for them or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were actually the scout for Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.859387741998072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about six or seven others. They're in a line swimming out to an island in the village that we had no volunteers. The villagers had told them, don't swim in the river, there's crocodiles in the river. They, of course, being immortal, felt that it didn't apply to them. So they're swimming in a line up to the island in the middle of the Abaro River and suddenly, he was in the middle of the line, suddenly he disappears. And he surfaces down river in the mouth of the crocodile. The other volunteers were just mildly a little upset, and so I had to do some group therapy on them afterwards to have them resolve the whole thing. He was our only death. Otherwise, we had the ability to evacuate very sick volunteers to the Army base in Germany, which we probably did once every three or four months, somebody who was very sick and where we could not manage them given the resources that we had there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kinds of sickness did the volunteers have who needed to go to Germany?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Volunteers had been trained in UCLA. They had good language training. They were a healthy self-selected group, I'd say a very strong group, relatively few weak volunteers. We put the strongest volunteers out in some of the more remote villages. That's how David and Courtney [Arnold] end up in the village that I, actually it's one of the first villages I was asked to go to, was the first Peace Corps person who went to the village, talked to the principal of the school and made a decision as to whether that was going to be an appropriate village for them or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were actually the scout for Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And David and Courtney Arnold, just to be clear, are a married couple that were in the Peace Corps in that village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.781053144030276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I placed them there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were very good volunteers. So I was very much part of the staff and very much involved in considerations of who got to go to the remote villages or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, so you were a not just a medical doctor, but also an active staff member who helped to determine where volunteers would be assigned."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.978947937811418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I placed them there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were very good volunteers. So I was very much part of the staff and very much involved in considerations of who got to go to the remote villages or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, so you were a not just a medical doctor, but also an active staff member who helped to determine where volunteers would be assigned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. You had to evaluate the sites."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.0601499395610725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could tell you when I was at Alaska, but that's another story. Because we would get word in and I'd get word in, for example, I remember a village was cut off by the rains and we had a married couple out there, a fairly remote village, and she had developed severe hepatitis. I remember realizing she had hepatitis and I had to get her out with the roads were all blocked, so we went to the military and they said, we'll take you out by helicopter. It's the only time I've been in a helicopter, flying just over the trees all the way out there and we brought her back in. So somehow she got the word in, probably through the mission hospitals or through the local Ethiopian. I'm thinking they had, I'm thinking they had some kind of telephone communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The missionary hospitals had telecommunications at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they had some kind of communications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. Right. Limited, but enough to get emergency messages through."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.31296288005634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. I remember one rather very dramatic episode where a Peace Corps staff director called me in and said, we just got a call in from a mission hospital out in one area that was my area. Said a volunteer's out there asking for an abortion. Unfortunately, she had gone to a Catholic mission hospital to ask for this, which was not a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he said, you know, you need to go out and take care of this. So I had to go out and take care of this. So I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that call had come in from a mission hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. They communicated it even though they wouldn't take care of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.262917135872023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that call had come in from a mission hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. They communicated it even though they wouldn't take care of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took care of it anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you were dealing with all aspects of medical care for all the volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.670268068977805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took care of it anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you were dealing with all aspects of medical care for all the volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a pretty healthy group, if you get them to take their malaria suppression pills and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of malaria suppression pills were they using in Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.96696452108645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a pretty healthy group, if you get them to take their malaria suppression pills and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of malaria suppression pills were they using in Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aralen at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aralen, right, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.40773835676272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a pretty healthy group, if you get them to take their malaria suppression pills and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of malaria suppression pills were they using in Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aralen at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aralen, right, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have the, they didn't have the treatment resistant. It was treatment still sensitive, therefore not a major problem, as long as you can treat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So I'm happy to hear more about your medical experience with the volunteers and with the Ethiopians. I wanted to just ask a tangential question. Did you have communication with your own family or friends at home during the time that you were in Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.0085981741808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aralen at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aralen, right, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have the, they didn't have the treatment resistant. It was treatment still sensitive, therefore not a major problem, as long as you can treat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So I'm happy to hear more about your medical experience with the volunteers and with the Ethiopians. I wanted to just ask a tangential question. Did you have communication with your own family or friends at home during the time that you were in Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was only by letters. Now, it's very, very different. Now they have their cell phone and they talk to them all the time. What a different experience that would be, you know, all my communication was just by mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And did you write letters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.787331304645335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have the, they didn't have the treatment resistant. It was treatment still sensitive, therefore not a major problem, as long as you can treat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So I'm happy to hear more about your medical experience with the volunteers and with the Ethiopians. I wanted to just ask a tangential question. Did you have communication with your own family or friends at home during the time that you were in Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was only by letters. Now, it's very, very different. Now they have their cell phone and they talk to them all the time. What a different experience that would be, you know, all my communication was just by mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And did you write letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you received letters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.76370144960593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was only by letters. Now, it's very, very different. Now they have their cell phone and they talk to them all the time. What a different experience that would be, you know, all my communication was just by mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And did you write letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you received letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you by chance still have those letters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.95966827733992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you received letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you by chance still have those letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. We're downsizing. I've gotten rid of so many things, I'm almost sure they went out with the last group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there are other memorable experiences you had with Ethiopians? You mentioned several patients. And you mention interacting with the missionary doctors and doing volunteer work with the local hospitals."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 22.177409197044355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you by chance still have those letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. We're downsizing. I've gotten rid of so many things, I'm almost sure they went out with the last group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there are other memorable experiences you had with Ethiopians? You mentioned several patients. And you mention interacting with the missionary doctors and doing volunteer work with the local hospitals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did several other things. First of all, I did my own language training when I got there. I contracted with a 14 year old boy. Most recently, he's been driving Ubers here in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still in touch with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.435663031351275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or curing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to use whatever was working. I got very much involved, for example, in the psychiatric cases there, because I was already interested in psychiatry. So there was the Ethiopian mental hospital. There's two Ethiopian, not two, one Ethiopian psychiatrist, two Yugoslav psychiatrists in the country. So I spent time both in the mental hospital, which I got to know very well. There were very few drugs available and mostly used ECT. They also got involved with the indigenous therapists. At that time the best indigenous therapist in the country were the Ethiopian priests who specialized in exorcising zar spirits. Zar spirits were thought to cause many of these diseases on it. So I spent time with a well-known witch doctor, if you like, uh, and published some work on him. And then when I came back, I published a whole book called The Mind Game: Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists, and that was one of the first books I published. It's later republished as just Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The name of the book is The Mind Game?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.48407003483475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to use whatever was working. I got very much involved, for example, in the psychiatric cases there, because I was already interested in psychiatry. So there was the Ethiopian mental hospital. There's two Ethiopian, not two, one Ethiopian psychiatrist, two Yugoslav psychiatrists in the country. So I spent time both in the mental hospital, which I got to know very well. There were very few drugs available and mostly used ECT. They also got involved with the indigenous therapists. At that time the best indigenous therapist in the country were the Ethiopian priests who specialized in exorcising zar spirits. Zar spirits were thought to cause many of these diseases on it. So I spent time with a well-known witch doctor, if you like, uh, and published some work on him. And then when I came back, I published a whole book called The Mind Game: Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists, and that was one of the first books I published. It's later republished as just Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The name of the book is The Mind Game?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mind Game, subtitle, Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists. It dealt with what are effective psychiatrists, what are effective witch doctors, how soon are they? Bottom line is a lot of them do pretty much the same thing. That became quite popular at the time. That's an example of something I got involved with outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. When you say it became quite popular, meaning the book was then, when you published it in the United States, it became popular in the United States as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.648966705371944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to use whatever was working. I got very much involved, for example, in the psychiatric cases there, because I was already interested in psychiatry. So there was the Ethiopian mental hospital. There's two Ethiopian, not two, one Ethiopian psychiatrist, two Yugoslav psychiatrists in the country. So I spent time both in the mental hospital, which I got to know very well. There were very few drugs available and mostly used ECT. They also got involved with the indigenous therapists. At that time the best indigenous therapist in the country were the Ethiopian priests who specialized in exorcising zar spirits. Zar spirits were thought to cause many of these diseases on it. So I spent time with a well-known witch doctor, if you like, uh, and published some work on him. And then when I came back, I published a whole book called The Mind Game: Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists, and that was one of the first books I published. It's later republished as just Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The name of the book is The Mind Game?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mind Game, subtitle, Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists. It dealt with what are effective psychiatrists, what are effective witch doctors, how soon are they? Bottom line is a lot of them do pretty much the same thing. That became quite popular at the time. That's an example of something I got involved with outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. When you say it became quite popular, meaning the book was then, when you published it in the United States, it became popular in the United States as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right. When did you publish it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.721074117079937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mind Game, subtitle, Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists. It dealt with what are effective psychiatrists, what are effective witch doctors, how soon are they? Bottom line is a lot of them do pretty much the same thing. That became quite popular at the time. That's an example of something I got involved with outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. When you say it became quite popular, meaning the book was then, when you published it in the United States, it became popular in the United States as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right. When did you publish it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first edition was, I think. Let's see. '70, '71, '72. '72, I bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So not long after you came back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.124782860592514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first edition was, I think. Let's see. '70, '71, '72. '72, I bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So not long after you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Ethiopian experience was incorporated in that book, and that's one reason. Talking to Barbara coming out, I probably would have never done that book if I had not been in Ethiopia, if I had not had that experience in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. How much time did you spend with the psychologists or the psychiatrists that you worked with in Ethiopia, both the Ethiopians and the Yugoslavs? Did you? Was that something you did just, you know, in like a month's time or did you work with them over a period of several months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.471980956213905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Ethiopian experience was incorporated in that book, and that's one reason. Talking to Barbara coming out, I probably would have never done that book if I had not been in Ethiopia, if I had not had that experience in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. How much time did you spend with the psychologists or the psychiatrists that you worked with in Ethiopia, both the Ethiopians and the Yugoslavs? Did you? Was that something you did just, you know, in like a month's time or did you work with them over a period of several months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the mental hospital was in Addis. I probably went there about once a month. We spent probably half a day with them once a month I'm guessing. They were always be glad to have company because nobody was interested and they'd just say nobody went near that mental hospital. It was right in the middle of the main market, but Ethiopians, it's not somewhere you went. It was, they would believe it would be filled with zar spirits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're saying zar spirits?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.146750282872297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Z-A-R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Z-A-R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Z-A-R, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits are a belief really throughout the Middle East, North Africa. Yeah, it's not just Ethiopia, and it's kind of Middle Eastern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to a Westerner, how would you explain a zar spirit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.829722536524773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Z-A-R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Z-A-R, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits are a belief really throughout the Middle East, North Africa. Yeah, it's not just Ethiopia, and it's kind of Middle Eastern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to a Westerner, how would you explain a zar spirit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits can get in you if your mouth is open, if you're don't wash your hands right now, there's a whole variety of things that you do wrong, then zar spirits will take over. Then the zar spirits can cause disease. It can cause psychiatrically what the Ethiopian priest is very good at, with what we would call anxiety attacks, minor depression, depression. Hysteria. Uh, and he was very good, as I described in my book. He would take his situation and share here with a large crowd. Usually a large crowd would come and watch this. And he would take his bucket of holy water and he'd take his big wooden cross. He would throw the holy water in your face and then he'd hit you very hard with the wooden cross. And after a while, the zar spirits would flee from you. This was to push the zar spirits out of you. It was all quite dramatic, actually. And often the person would fall down on the floor and kind of have a seizure like experience, and that would be much better. He was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people witnessed this and believed that the patient was healed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.699691707249748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits are a belief really throughout the Middle East, North Africa. Yeah, it's not just Ethiopia, and it's kind of Middle Eastern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to a Westerner, how would you explain a zar spirit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits can get in you if your mouth is open, if you're don't wash your hands right now, there's a whole variety of things that you do wrong, then zar spirits will take over. Then the zar spirits can cause disease. It can cause psychiatrically what the Ethiopian priest is very good at, with what we would call anxiety attacks, minor depression, depression. Hysteria. Uh, and he was very good, as I described in my book. He would take his situation and share here with a large crowd. Usually a large crowd would come and watch this. And he would take his bucket of holy water and he'd take his big wooden cross. He would throw the holy water in your face and then he'd hit you very hard with the wooden cross. And after a while, the zar spirits would flee from you. This was to push the zar spirits out of you. It was all quite dramatic, actually. And often the person would fall down on the floor and kind of have a seizure like experience, and that would be much better. He was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people witnessed this and believed that the patient was healed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. You know, he was honest. He had a lot of credibility. He was widely known really around mostly probably central Ethiopia, would be one of the better known people in terms of the priests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was the Orthodox?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.777435230277497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zar spirits can get in you if your mouth is open, if you're don't wash your hands right now, there's a whole variety of things that you do wrong, then zar spirits will take over. Then the zar spirits can cause disease. It can cause psychiatrically what the Ethiopian priest is very good at, with what we would call anxiety attacks, minor depression, depression. Hysteria. Uh, and he was very good, as I described in my book. He would take his situation and share here with a large crowd. Usually a large crowd would come and watch this. And he would take his bucket of holy water and he'd take his big wooden cross. He would throw the holy water in your face and then he'd hit you very hard with the wooden cross. And after a while, the zar spirits would flee from you. This was to push the zar spirits out of you. It was all quite dramatic, actually. And often the person would fall down on the floor and kind of have a seizure like experience, and that would be much better. He was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people witnessed this and believed that the patient was healed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. You know, he was honest. He had a lot of credibility. He was widely known really around mostly probably central Ethiopia, would be one of the better known people in terms of the priests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was the Orthodox?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopian Orthodox."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And what was his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.712883000342586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopian Orthodox."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And what was his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Abba Wolde. Abba is priest. Wolde, W-O-L-D-E. T-E-N-S-A-E. Abba Woldetensae."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a nice man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you have contact with him after you left Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.335916324201076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I've been back to Ethiopia many times, but not until the Derg left in the '90s. So by then he had, he was dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. So I didn't have contact with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Ethiopia just once after I left, and that was part of a WHO meeting that was about '72. That was within, just before the Derg took over, before they ousted the emperor. And then between there and the late '90s, it was run by the Derg and it was not comfortable to go back to. Once the Derg was pushed out, then I started to go back on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was, what approximately what year was the Derg pushed out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.373240360223416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. So I didn't have contact with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Ethiopia just once after I left, and that was part of a WHO meeting that was about '72. That was within, just before the Derg took over, before they ousted the emperor. And then between there and the late '90s, it was run by the Derg and it was not comfortable to go back to. Once the Derg was pushed out, then I started to go back on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was, what approximately what year was the Derg pushed out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably went back in '97. '96, '97, '98. And have been back, let's see, the last time was about five years ago. I've probably been back four or five times since then. Yeah, four or five times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But during that, say, 20 years or so, or 30 years, you weren't able to go back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 19.30360040024824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Ethiopia just once after I left, and that was part of a WHO meeting that was about '72. That was within, just before the Derg took over, before they ousted the emperor. And then between there and the late '90s, it was run by the Derg and it was not comfortable to go back to. Once the Derg was pushed out, then I started to go back on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was, what approximately what year was the Derg pushed out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably went back in '97. '96, '97, '98. And have been back, let's see, the last time was about five years ago. I've probably been back four or five times since then. Yeah, four or five times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But during that, say, 20 years or so, or 30 years, you weren't able to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was being run by the Derg. The Derg was a communist group and they did not like Americans. The Peace Corps was pulled out, so there was no Peace Corps there at that time either. It was an anti- American government. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Patricia Wand continuing an interview with Edwin Fuller Torrey about his experience as Peace Corps doctor in Ethiopia from 1964 to 1966."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.912513946423163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A secondary. The only health part of it was initial training we had. We had a nurses training and we had a physician in Gondar who was doing training of the public health workers at Gondar, at the university in Gondar. So there were two or three of these small medical programs, health programs within, but 90, 95 percent of the volunteers in Ethiopia were secondary school teachers. It's basically a teaching program, and there are a few of these other offshoots. But the kind of things I was doing, I just generated completely on my own. It was not part of the program, but we just did them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You saw a need and you planned a project to try to fill the need."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, because the volunteers, keeping the volunteers healthy didn't take that much time. They were a healthy group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah. So you did your job and then some."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was all my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. Yeah. And you were dedicated to tropical medicine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.013904384914625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, because the volunteers, keeping the volunteers healthy didn't take that much time. They were a healthy group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah. So you did your job and then some."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was all my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. Yeah. And you were dedicated to tropical medicine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I was there for, trying to improve the health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that you did this extensive medical survey on the ground with volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.237671538794027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was all my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. Yeah. And you were dedicated to tropical medicine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I was there for, trying to improve the health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that you did this extensive medical survey on the ground with volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was published."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was published in Ethiopia as well as more broadly or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.48630170977114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I was there for, trying to improve the health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned that you did this extensive medical survey on the ground with volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was published."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was published in Ethiopia as well as more broadly or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in Ethiopia. Ethiopian Medical Journal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There's a famous book that many volunteers use now that's called Where There Is No Doctor."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.873668566412379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was published."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was published in Ethiopia as well as more broadly or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in Ethiopia. Ethiopian Medical Journal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There's a famous book that many volunteers use now that's called Where There Is No Doctor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book didn't exist when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know the history of the book? When did it come out and did you have any influence on its publication, for example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.304076184902643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in Ethiopia. Ethiopian Medical Journal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There's a famous book that many volunteers use now that's called Where There Is No Doctor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book didn't exist when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know the history of the book? When did it come out and did you have any influence on its publication, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. Well, it only came, I only became aware of it a few years ago, so I don't know very much about other than it's used very widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is used, and I believe it may be a United Nations publication."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.893417983225158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book didn't exist when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know the history of the book? When did it come out and did you have any influence on its publication, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. Well, it only came, I only became aware of it a few years ago, so I don't know very much about other than it's used very widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is used, and I believe it may be a United Nations publication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be. Or WHO probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.65935331469462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. Well, it only came, I only became aware of it a few years ago, so I don't know very much about other than it's used very widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is used, and I believe it may be a United Nations publication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be. Or WHO probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think WHO should be doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So, you know, you've talked about this medical survey that you did in the last few months of your service in Ethiopia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.62150368299402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could be. Or WHO probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think WHO should be doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So, you know, you've talked about this medical survey that you did in the last few months of your service in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was one of the highlights of my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I can see why."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.801670758882246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think WHO should be doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So, you know, you've talked about this medical survey that you did in the last few months of your service in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was one of the highlights of my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I can see why."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walking 50 miles is a long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a long ways. Yeah, yeah. Did you do it in one day? No, you did it in several."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.11296750986916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was one of the highlights of my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I can see why."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walking 50 miles is a long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a long ways. Yeah, yeah. Did you do it in one day? No, you did it in several."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back in one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back in one day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.903297233187956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walking 50 miles is a long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a long ways. Yeah, yeah. Did you do it in one day? No, you did it in several."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back in one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back in one day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back one day. We left the village. It was very hot in the Blue Nile Gorge. So we left at eight o'clock at night to climb out during the cooler late evening hours. Got lost in the bamboo forest. So we started a fire and slept for a couple of hours until the sun came up and then found the trail again. Stopped and had some breakfast at the village at the top of the escarpment were some of our students had come from. And then I continued on back because I knew that it was going to be a long, long day. And some of the other volunteers got late and got caught out in the countryside. You don't get caught out at night, you can't be wandering around at night. So three or four of them were taken to a hut and locked in a hut for the night. They hadn't got all the way back because the villagers did not want them wandering around in the night. But I got all, I got all the way back by 8:00. As I said, it was about 24 hours and I got back 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you by yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.89255248131995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back in one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back in one day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back one day. We left the village. It was very hot in the Blue Nile Gorge. So we left at eight o'clock at night to climb out during the cooler late evening hours. Got lost in the bamboo forest. So we started a fire and slept for a couple of hours until the sun came up and then found the trail again. Stopped and had some breakfast at the village at the top of the escarpment were some of our students had come from. And then I continued on back because I knew that it was going to be a long, long day. And some of the other volunteers got late and got caught out in the countryside. You don't get caught out at night, you can't be wandering around at night. So three or four of them were taken to a hut and locked in a hut for the night. They hadn't got all the way back because the villagers did not want them wandering around in the night. But I got all, I got all the way back by 8:00. As I said, it was about 24 hours and I got back 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Walking all night?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.880613868133278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back one day. We left the village. It was very hot in the Blue Nile Gorge. So we left at eight o'clock at night to climb out during the cooler late evening hours. Got lost in the bamboo forest. So we started a fire and slept for a couple of hours until the sun came up and then found the trail again. Stopped and had some breakfast at the village at the top of the escarpment were some of our students had come from. And then I continued on back because I knew that it was going to be a long, long day. And some of the other volunteers got late and got caught out in the countryside. You don't get caught out at night, you can't be wandering around at night. So three or four of them were taken to a hut and locked in a hut for the night. They hadn't got all the way back because the villagers did not want them wandering around in the night. But I got all, I got all the way back by 8:00. As I said, it was about 24 hours and I got back 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Walking all night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walked all night till we got lost, and I walked all day till 8:00 the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.08957096459253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Walking all night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walked all night till we got lost, and I walked all day till 8:00 the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long ways."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.54396773843614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Walked all night till we got lost, and I walked all day till 8:00 the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beautiful country, though. Rolling countryside, very pretty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're now, in terms of what you're talking about. I'd like to, unless you have something else you want to share about those two years, I would like to ask you what you started thinking about and planning when you saw that the end of your commitment was only a few months or then weeks away. What were you planning to do when you left Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 23.93774193159571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beautiful country, though. Rolling countryside, very pretty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're now, in terms of what you're talking about. I'd like to, unless you have something else you want to share about those two years, I would like to ask you what you started thinking about and planning when you saw that the end of your commitment was only a few months or then weeks away. What were you planning to do when you left Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'd planned even before I went to Ethiopia that I would take a residency when I came back. The question was whether to take a residency in pediatrics or general medicine or in psychiatry. And so I was debating that during the time I was in Ethiopia. By the time I was been in Ethiopia for a year or so, I decided I would take a psychiatry residency. So I was applying to residencies even from Ethiopia and before I had returned, I had been accepted to the residency at Stanford, which would have been probably my first choice on it. So when I came back, then I interviewed at a couple of other residencies to see whether I'd made the right choice or not, but I basically knew what I was going to do. The question is whether I was going to do it immediately or wait a year. So I end up waiting a year when I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in that interim year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.649851758018805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked at a hospital that's, in a mental hospital in upstate New York for three months, and then I went to New York City to work with my colleague from Kaiser, who had started one of the first OEO health centers. This was in the OEO [Office of Economic Opportunity] program, was the peak under Johnson years on it. And so we started training programs in the South Bronx. I worked in the South Bronx for six months with him, started one of the first OEO health centers, and training the local health workers, called family health worker. We had teams. We'd take a public health nurse, a pediatrician, an internist, and a family health worker, and they became a team to take care of a group of people. So I would set up the training program for the family health workers. Not dissimilar to some of what I was doing in Ethiopia. So for the six months, I did that in the South Bronx, which was a totally bombed out area at that time, very heavily drug infested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this would have been in, say, 1966 to '67."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The first six months of '67. And I started my residency in July of '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, um, how long did that last and what was it? Did it meet your expectations at Stanford?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say it again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your residency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.944279731132003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The first six months of '67. And I started my residency in July of '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, um, how long did that last and what was it? Did it meet your expectations at Stanford?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say it again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your residency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was three years at that time, at Stanford. It's a very nice place to live and was a very. This was the Haight-Ashbury days, so I volunteered in the Haight-Ashbury clinic for a while. It's the height of the marijuana, the old marijuana days on it. And it was a very good residency and they also were very easy on us and encouraged us to do things other than just the residency. So I also took a master's degree in anthropology, which I probably wouldn't have done if I hadn't been in Ethiopia and felt comfortable with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it did you, in your anthropology work, did you focus on Africa or were you looking at other places?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.915335708000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I focused mostly on East San Jose, because I had to do a master's thesis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I basically did it on the indigenous therapists and the Hispanic community in East San Jose. You know, I didn't speak much Spanish, but I was able to get enough to put together a couple of papers and got my master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So Ethiopia opened your eyes to a lot of different disciplines."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.461484120000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I basically did it on the indigenous therapists and the Hispanic community in East San Jose. You know, I didn't speak much Spanish, but I was able to get enough to put together a couple of papers and got my master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So Ethiopia opened your eyes to a lot of different disciplines."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Like many of us, it was really a defining experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wife is also a Peace Corps volunteer, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.179426800000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So Ethiopia opened your eyes to a lot of different disciplines."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Like many of us, it was really a defining experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wife is also a Peace Corps volunteer, is that right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you find one another?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.088252000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Like many of us, it was really a defining experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wife is also a Peace Corps volunteer, is that right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you find one another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did I find her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Or did she find you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.320280000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you find one another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did I find her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Or did she find you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, I thought I found her. She was quite sure she really wanted to find me. We had some friends in common. I moved down to New York in early '67. My friend said, you really got to meet, you know, this woman. Friends were telling her, you know, you really got to meet this guy. She was not at all interested. Then one of my Ethiopian colleagues invited me to come out to spend the day at the new state university program at Stony Brook, which was just getting started at that time on Long Island. And Barbara, through a Peace Corps connection, was on the staff there, planning this new part of the State University. So I came out to basically do some health training out there. That's what I met her.\n\nAnd they were interested in finding some places to place their students in the inner city. I certainly qualified at the inner city in South Bronx, so she said, you know, I'll come in and take a look at your place. I said, fine, I'll buy you a drink when you come in if you want. So she came in and looked at the very bombed out South Bronx that we were in. After we finished, she said, where are we going to dinner? I said, dinner? I had no money at all, so we're not going to dinner. Lee Chung Lee's, which is a place in the South, uh, East Village. I was living in East Village. It has no sign on the door. You just have to know what door to go through to get in the restaurant. It's an old speakeasy on it. It's also very cheap, so that's where we ended up having dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your first date."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.988000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, I thought I found her. She was quite sure she really wanted to find me. We had some friends in common. I moved down to New York in early '67. My friend said, you really got to meet, you know, this woman. Friends were telling her, you know, you really got to meet this guy. She was not at all interested. Then one of my Ethiopian colleagues invited me to come out to spend the day at the new state university program at Stony Brook, which was just getting started at that time on Long Island. And Barbara, through a Peace Corps connection, was on the staff there, planning this new part of the State University. So I came out to basically do some health training out there. That's what I met her.\n\nAnd they were interested in finding some places to place their students in the inner city. I certainly qualified at the inner city in South Bronx, so she said, you know, I'll come in and take a look at your place. I said, fine, I'll buy you a drink when you come in if you want. So she came in and looked at the very bombed out South Bronx that we were in. After we finished, she said, where are we going to dinner? I said, dinner? I had no money at all, so we're not going to dinner. Lee Chung Lee's, which is a place in the South, uh, East Village. I was living in East Village. It has no sign on the door. You just have to know what door to go through to get in the restaurant. It's an old speakeasy on it. It's also very cheap, so that's where we ended up having dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your first date."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was first date. That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And six months later, she came out to live with me in Palo Alto and then we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 13.32, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was first date. That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And six months later, she came out to live with me in Palo Alto and then we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty two years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifty two years ago, congratulations. Yeah. So, let's just do a fast forward here, if we can do that. Spend just a few minutes. What did you do then after Stanford? And what brought you to Washington, D.C., where you live now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And six months later, she came out to live with me in Palo Alto and then we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, I see. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty two years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifty two years ago, congratulations. Yeah. So, let's just do a fast forward here, if we can do that. Spend just a few minutes. What did you do then after Stanford? And what brought you to Washington, D.C., where you live now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Public Health Service during my residency. I already had two years of Public Health Service in Ethiopia. I had three more years in my residency, so I already had five years in Public Health Service. But I owed them time. So I knew I was going to come to Washington to work in the National Institutes of Mental Health because that was my obligation. And so I came and we've stayed here ever since, obviously. And I have been involved in a series of things, almost all of which involve serious mental illness, schizophrenia in particular, for, let's see, for how many years? About five years I was in charge of some development programs at NIMH, four providing services. I then spent a year in the Indian Health Service where we took our two children to a remote island off the coast of Alaska, which I wouldn't have done if I hadn't had the Peace Corps experience.\n\nI then left the Public Health Service after I finished. Well, then I went to St. Elizabeth's Hospital, spent uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here in Washington, D.C."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Public Health Service during my residency. I already had two years of Public Health Service in Ethiopia. I had three more years in my residency, so I already had five years in Public Health Service. But I owed them time. So I knew I was going to come to Washington to work in the National Institutes of Mental Health because that was my obligation. And so I came and we've stayed here ever since, obviously. And I have been involved in a series of things, almost all of which involve serious mental illness, schizophrenia in particular, for, let's see, for how many years? About five years I was in charge of some development programs at NIMH, four providing services. I then spent a year in the Indian Health Service where we took our two children to a remote island off the coast of Alaska, which I wouldn't have done if I hadn't had the Peace Corps experience.\n\nI then left the Public Health Service after I finished. Well, then I went to St. Elizabeth's Hospital, spent uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here in Washington. Eight years on running the wards at St. Elizabeth's Hospital, doing research and writing books. And I've been very much involved in research on schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, writing a lot during the time on it. And then a family approached me because they read one of my books about schizophrenia and said, would you help us spend a million dollars on research? And I said, I thought I could. That ended up being about $40 million a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called the Stanley Medical Research Institute, which I started. Now it has wound down because both the husband and wife are dead now, so we're winding down probably the last five to 10 years of the program. So basically, my career has been in schizophrenia, serious mental illness, both in research and advocacy, writing a lot of op eds, writing a lot of books. And going back to Ethiopia periodically, doing a lot of traveling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have had a very, very full career."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here in Washington. Eight years on running the wards at St. Elizabeth's Hospital, doing research and writing books. And I've been very much involved in research on schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, writing a lot during the time on it. And then a family approached me because they read one of my books about schizophrenia and said, would you help us spend a million dollars on research? And I said, I thought I could. That ended up being about $40 million a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called the Stanley Medical Research Institute, which I started. Now it has wound down because both the husband and wife are dead now, so we're winding down probably the last five to 10 years of the program. So basically, my career has been in schizophrenia, serious mental illness, both in research and advocacy, writing a lot of op eds, writing a lot of books. And going back to Ethiopia periodically, doing a lot of traveling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have had a very, very full career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very full. It's almost finished, but not quite yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Forge ahead. Forge ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very full. It's almost finished, but not quite yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Forge ahead. Forge ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do we have a choice?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. Not if we're driven. Well, this, Fuller, has been a wonderful, wonderful short time of reviewing with you your rich life and seeing it in the perspective of the influence of your Peace Corps experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00120:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do we have a choice?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. Not if we're driven. Well, this, Fuller, has been a wonderful, wonderful short time of reviewing with you your rich life and seeing it in the perspective of the influence of your Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Like for many of us, Peace Corps was a very important experience and shaped our ideas and shaped our lives in many ways, for the better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. So before we close, is there any other comment, or is there any incident or experience that you want to make sure we add?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.798175452882548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I worked in the Preservation Department until 2013, and then I did a special project with the Iraqi Jewish Archives, which was an imaging project conducted at College Park, Maryland, with some community records that NARA had possession of that came from the secret police building in Baghdad, Iraq. They were community records of the Iraqi Jewish community, and they needed treatment, but they also needed digitization so that they could be shared broadly with interested individuals, in particular the Iraqi Jewish population throughout the world that no longer resides in Iraq. So that was a two-year project. And we made available all those community records for anyone who wants to find them on the internet. So I worked on that project. Then I came back to my permanent position, which is in St. Louis. That was in 2015."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. When you first started at the National Archives in the Preservation Department, was the preservation program still getting off of the ground there or was it in full operation mode at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at full operation mode. It had been started in the early 2000s. But they had one primary project, which was a microfilming project. So the microfilming project ended about the time we moved into our new facility, 2011–2012 timeframe. And at that point, we started doing a broader array of projects, including more digitization of high-value military personnel records and digitization of award cards and other records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you started at the old location, so that would have been where the fire happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that building like? Did it still smell? What did it look like?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.997972725425052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at full operation mode. It had been started in the early 2000s. But they had one primary project, which was a microfilming project. So the microfilming project ended about the time we moved into our new facility, 2011–2012 timeframe. And at that point, we started doing a broader array of projects, including more digitization of high-value military personnel records and digitization of award cards and other records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you started at the old location, so that would have been where the fire happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that building like? Did it still smell? What did it look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't smell. In a lot of senses it was an incredible building. It had wide corridors and escalators and it had a nurse's office. And it was like a little city community. At one time, because the Army was there, it could have held maybe 1300, 1400 people. The storage spaces were terrible. But there are aspects of that building, the common area—there was a little garden in the center of it. There were a lot of things I really liked about that building then, although the new building that we have is much better for records storage. There was a certain pleasure in working in that kind of a structure that was different. Like, I feel like our current building's a little more institutional like a hospital building or something. But it has great records storage areas, which is, you know, our primary role is to preserve and protect the records. So it's a fair tradeoff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to help with that move?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.331080806027835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that building like? Did it still smell? What did it look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't smell. In a lot of senses it was an incredible building. It had wide corridors and escalators and it had a nurse's office. And it was like a little city community. At one time, because the Army was there, it could have held maybe 1300, 1400 people. The storage spaces were terrible. But there are aspects of that building, the common area—there was a little garden in the center of it. There were a lot of things I really liked about that building then, although the new building that we have is much better for records storage. There was a certain pleasure in working in that kind of a structure that was different. Like, I feel like our current building's a little more institutional like a hospital building or something. But it has great records storage areas, which is, you know, our primary role is to preserve and protect the records. So it's a fair tradeoff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to help with that move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did. I specified a lot of the space planning for our labs. I didn't work on moving the records. Some of our staff did work on that move. We had a contract with a mover, and NARA staff would assist loading boxes, unloading boxes, and shelving boxes. They would assist in terms of tracking it all, but they didn't do the manual labor of filling up the stacks at the new building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the burned records, the burnt files, did they have to be prepared a certain way in order to be able to move them in the first place?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.347013340775105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did. I specified a lot of the space planning for our labs. I didn't work on moving the records. Some of our staff did work on that move. We had a contract with a mover, and NARA staff would assist loading boxes, unloading boxes, and shelving boxes. They would assist in terms of tracking it all, but they didn't do the manual labor of filling up the stacks at the new building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the burned records, the burnt files, did they have to be prepared a certain way in order to be able to move them in the first place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. But you should ask others about that, because it's possible that there was more going on that I wasn't aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we moved them into cold bays. They're not technically cold storage, but they're 50 to 55 degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you said that you are a supervisory preservation specialist. Can you tell me a little bit about what your day-to-day job looks like? What are you working on?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.880393761066805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There could be a few re-requests in there, but if a re-request has happened since the Preservation Unit existed, then we would have stabilized the record. So part of what we do is when we have a poor condition record, we may humidify it to flatten it. We may put it in a mylar sleeve to prevent sections from breaking apart and becoming disassociated. So we know when we encounter something we've already treated. But most requests when they come through as pulled from the burn bays are first time requests for us. If they're in poor condition, we would know that we had handled them before because of the way they've been treated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You also mentioned health concerns with some of the mold or anything else. Was there something that you did to kind of lessen those effects for the staff? Or how do you protect the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I'm tangential to this sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But definitely we've always had four-hour shifts, so we limit time. We've done respirator fit testing in the past. We currently have some positive pressure respirators for staff to wear. The records themselves are kept in a cold environment. And we also have fume hoods or biosafety cabinets under which a record with a lot of mold can be processed. But you'll get a better description of that from other individuals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. This is the first time that I've heard about all of these methods for protecting the staff, so I appreciate you mentioning that."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1486342729219805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But definitely we've always had four-hour shifts, so we limit time. We've done respirator fit testing in the past. We currently have some positive pressure respirators for staff to wear. The records themselves are kept in a cold environment. And we also have fume hoods or biosafety cabinets under which a record with a lot of mold can be processed. But you'll get a better description of that from other individuals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. This is the first time that I've heard about all of these methods for protecting the staff, so I appreciate you mentioning that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there's good stuff that we do about that. We're also very concerned with repetitive injuries. Like some of our processes are very ergonomically difficult, so for that reason, we don't assign more than four hours on these processes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four hours a day. We split up the shifts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. When you're digitizing the records, do you have to adhere to certain standards? You know, the PPI [pixels per inch] or anything? What level of quality does the stakeholder or the requester need usually?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.516866116144185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. That's more done in the DC area because of the collaboration between different government agencies, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think still imaging specifications are not as rich because they don't cover things like audio compression and video formats and frame rates. A still image is just pretty simple. You can say it has a certain DPI. You can say it's in this particular file format. But it doesn't have as much nuance as those other categories. But you know, I've always felt throughout my career that it's really important to create files that are usable, and there's nothing worse than when you digitize something and then it's too big to attach to an email or it crashes somebody's computer when you send it to them. [laughter] And as the creator of those things, I'm always trying to find ways to make the files good, but more accessible. And then behind me, I have these lurking standards people telling me I need to make the files larger and less accessible. I'm not going to lie, there's a little bit of tension there. [laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess for keeping something permanent, you know, having those standards are good. But if you're providing access to a requester, like you said, they don't need all of those big requirements. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, looking at the fibers in the document–yes, that's true. Also, if there isn’t a paper original, or it’s being disposed of after digitization, it’s particularly important to digitize to a high standard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now in some of the...[cross-talking]. Oh, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.240962351271317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think still imaging specifications are not as rich because they don't cover things like audio compression and video formats and frame rates. A still image is just pretty simple. You can say it has a certain DPI. You can say it's in this particular file format. But it doesn't have as much nuance as those other categories. But you know, I've always felt throughout my career that it's really important to create files that are usable, and there's nothing worse than when you digitize something and then it's too big to attach to an email or it crashes somebody's computer when you send it to them. [laughter] And as the creator of those things, I'm always trying to find ways to make the files good, but more accessible. And then behind me, I have these lurking standards people telling me I need to make the files larger and less accessible. I'm not going to lie, there's a little bit of tension there. [laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess for keeping something permanent, you know, having those standards are good. But if you're providing access to a requester, like you said, they don't need all of those big requirements. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, looking at the fibers in the document–yes, that's true. Also, if there isn’t a paper original, or it’s being disposed of after digitization, it’s particularly important to digitize to a high standard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now in some of the...[cross-talking]. Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to say, and we've yet to put our highest resolution TIFFs into the NARA repository, but we stand by ready to do that when the ERA accepts the digital surrogates of the military records, the high-value military records, we digitize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So right now you're just keeping these files on the server somewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.045513723634796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, looking at the fibers in the document–yes, that's true. Also, if there isn’t a paper original, or it’s being disposed of after digitization, it’s particularly important to digitize to a high standard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now in some of the...[cross-talking]. Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to say, and we've yet to put our highest resolution TIFFs into the NARA repository, but we stand by ready to do that when the ERA accepts the digital surrogates of the military records, the high-value military records, we digitize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So right now you're just keeping these files on the server somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then do you keep the actual burned paper also?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.939459692927551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to say, and we've yet to put our highest resolution TIFFs into the NARA repository, but we stand by ready to do that when the ERA accepts the digital surrogates of the military records, the high-value military records, we digitize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So right now you're just keeping these files on the server somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then do you keep the actual burned paper also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we keep the burned records that we digitize. A lot of the highest value records that we digitized aren't burned at all. They're the famous generals, the actors, the sports celebrities-types of people. But just whenever we get a military record that's heavily burned, we don't discard the original. We keep the original. But we put what we call a charge-out, or basically a charge-out card, in that location in the stacks. So if that record is requested again, that card says “Come to preservation. There's a digital version of this file.” So what happens is then we supply the digital version on the request."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Are there any photographs in these papers as well? Or is it strictly just a document that's got their service history on it?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.821621881030612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then do you keep the actual burned paper also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we keep the burned records that we digitize. A lot of the highest value records that we digitized aren't burned at all. They're the famous generals, the actors, the sports celebrities-types of people. But just whenever we get a military record that's heavily burned, we don't discard the original. We keep the original. But we put what we call a charge-out, or basically a charge-out card, in that location in the stacks. So if that record is requested again, that card says “Come to preservation. There's a digital version of this file.” So what happens is then we supply the digital version on the request."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Are there any photographs in these papers as well? Or is it strictly just a document that's got their service history on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, sometimes there's induction photos, and if anyone was an officer, there's officer photos. Like Navy always has an induction photo in the burned records. And a lot of our high-value OMPFs, like famous people, would be military officers; they'll have several photographs in those. But for the average military record, enlisted, unless it's Navy, it's unlikely that there's going to be a photo. But sometimes there's chest X-rays. If medicals are in there, we'll have some chest X-rays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's kind of unusual, or at least to me, it seems unusual. Have you found any other things that were unusual that you've come across in those files?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.690690978922902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we keep the burned records that we digitize. A lot of the highest value records that we digitized aren't burned at all. They're the famous generals, the actors, the sports celebrities-types of people. But just whenever we get a military record that's heavily burned, we don't discard the original. We keep the original. But we put what we call a charge-out, or basically a charge-out card, in that location in the stacks. So if that record is requested again, that card says “Come to preservation. There's a digital version of this file.” So what happens is then we supply the digital version on the request."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Are there any photographs in these papers as well? Or is it strictly just a document that's got their service history on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, sometimes there's induction photos, and if anyone was an officer, there's officer photos. Like Navy always has an induction photo in the burned records. And a lot of our high-value OMPFs, like famous people, would be military officers; they'll have several photographs in those. But for the average military record, enlisted, unless it's Navy, it's unlikely that there's going to be a photo. But sometimes there's chest X-rays. If medicals are in there, we'll have some chest X-rays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's kind of unusual, or at least to me, it seems unusual. Have you found any other things that were unusual that you've come across in those files?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. There's been a lot of stuff that's been found in the files. But I'm not the right person since I don't handle them every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. So, you're not doing anything with that chest X-ray? [laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.322989976581001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, sometimes there's induction photos, and if anyone was an officer, there's officer photos. Like Navy always has an induction photo in the burned records. And a lot of our high-value OMPFs, like famous people, would be military officers; they'll have several photographs in those. But for the average military record, enlisted, unless it's Navy, it's unlikely that there's going to be a photo. But sometimes there's chest X-rays. If medicals are in there, we'll have some chest X-rays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's kind of unusual, or at least to me, it seems unusual. Have you found any other things that were unusual that you've come across in those files?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. There's been a lot of stuff that's been found in the files. But I'm not the right person since I don't handle them every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. So, you're not doing anything with that chest X-ray? [laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Occasionally there's the DPAA [Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency] and JPAC [Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command]--I'm sorry to throw all these acronyms at you. It's based out of Honolulu, and it's the unit that goes and looks for remains. So, they'll either come to our facility or they'll queue up a bunch of records requests. When present, X-rays are useful for identifying human remains. So, that's an interesting process here in the building. The research room deals with that. The archival unit deals with that a lot. I just kind of see that occasionally from afar that that's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's remarkable. In terms of the records, the burn records that you're working with, it sounds like there's a set process in place, that they're stabilized and then you're actually imaging them. How long would you say that it takes to image one page, one document?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, of all the things I've wanted to say, and I don't know how this gets into the oral history though, is that when I walk people through on tours, we always show them the infrared content recovery and it always gets lots of oohs and ahs. But there are a lot more mundane things that happen that provide access to many, many more records. So I don't really like to play it up too much. But it's also a topic of great interest to me. It's very interesting, but it's not the biggest impact. Like little things can be done that you wouldn't even notice that make it possible for many more records to be available. So infrared only applies to a small percentage of the records that come through. And I try to emphasize this fact because I don't want the impression there was a fire that left all these charred, and through the magical process of infrared, NARA is now able to whole cloth recover all the fire damage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I try to control the narrative a little bit by tamping it down a bit. There's going to be an article coming out in Wired magazine that talks a little bit about what we do in our unit, and I made sure that less than one percent of records goes through that process was part of that article."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for a veteran or a family member, they don't care if it's one percent or what that percentage is as long as they're able to access that record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And in a way, the good thing about this is it’s a record that would be nearly impossible to access otherwise. So that makes it, like you were saying, every record has a requester behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has this whole process, your whole experience working there, has it changed how you view records? Maybe just how important they are? I don't know. Has it changed your mindset in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I try to control the narrative a little bit by tamping it down a bit. There's going to be an article coming out in Wired magazine that talks a little bit about what we do in our unit, and I made sure that less than one percent of records goes through that process was part of that article."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for a veteran or a family member, they don't care if it's one percent or what that percentage is as long as they're able to access that record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And in a way, the good thing about this is it’s a record that would be nearly impossible to access otherwise. So that makes it, like you were saying, every record has a requester behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has this whole process, your whole experience working there, has it changed how you view records? Maybe just how important they are? I don't know. Has it changed your mindset in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely made me appreciate the historical sacrifices of servicemen and the fact that I'm just a lot more interested in the history just being exposed to all these records. The sheer scale of it is remarkable. And yeah, there's a huge side of this operation, which is just about enabling people to get their benefits. And that's so important. And it's ongoing. And then also just genealogy. As people age, I think they become more interested in the lives of their parents and grandparents. And then they want to find if there's a record available that they can research for genealogy. That's really interesting. I've helped friends of mine look up information about family members and assisted them in their research of these records as well. And that's been a really fun thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask earlier when you did move to the new building, how challenging was that? Were labs already set up by the time you got to the new building? What was that process like? That had to be pretty challenging to start fresh."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely made me appreciate the historical sacrifices of servicemen and the fact that I'm just a lot more interested in the history just being exposed to all these records. The sheer scale of it is remarkable. And yeah, there's a huge side of this operation, which is just about enabling people to get their benefits. And that's so important. And it's ongoing. And then also just genealogy. As people age, I think they become more interested in the lives of their parents and grandparents. And then they want to find if there's a record available that they can research for genealogy. That's really interesting. I've helped friends of mine look up information about family members and assisted them in their research of these records as well. And that's been a really fun thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask earlier when you did move to the new building, how challenging was that? Were labs already set up by the time you got to the new building? What was that process like? That had to be pretty challenging to start fresh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did such a—it was such an upgrade really. We planned a lot of space in our labs. We planned a lot of network connections in our lab. And we have really first-class spaces here. So, it was a huge upgrade. We have electrical outlets everywhere. So actually it went really well. And we were formerly in a basement, so in a much smaller space. So it was a huge improvement. And we occupy a pretty big footprint in this building. So we can expand, and we can do more here. We can become a resource for the regional NARA facilities that don't have digitization or treatment capabilities. So our future plans are aligned with not just servicing the records here but also assisting other NARA offices in treatment and digitization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people do you have working there–just in preservation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In preservation, we're 17 currently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you make it sound like it was a pretty smooth transition, though, to that that new building. Is that pretty accurate?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00010:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did such a—it was such an upgrade really. We planned a lot of space in our labs. We planned a lot of network connections in our lab. And we have really first-class spaces here. So, it was a huge upgrade. We have electrical outlets everywhere. So actually it went really well. And we were formerly in a basement, so in a much smaller space. So it was a huge improvement. And we occupy a pretty big footprint in this building. So we can expand, and we can do more here. We can become a resource for the regional NARA facilities that don't have digitization or treatment capabilities. So our future plans are aligned with not just servicing the records here but also assisting other NARA offices in treatment and digitization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people do you have working there–just in preservation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In preservation, we're 17 currently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you make it sound like it was a pretty smooth transition, though, to that that new building. Is that pretty accurate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I know you could probably find others who would say it was a headache, but no, it seemed like a smooth transition. When I think back on it, they had prepared all the computers ahead of time so that they were all functional. We didn't have to move anything at all. Now for the process of going out and finding records, I don't do that. So I don't know how that necessarily works. I planned the physical space around my lab, but I didn't plan the stacks and the systems that govern the casework here, the case management programs and applications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So we're kind of coming up towards the end of the hour here. I just wanted to ask, what do you think would be maybe your greatest accomplishment so far working at NARA? You've worked there for a number of years now. And it sounds like what you do is just amazing, and it's high tech and it's very specialized. What do you think is your greatest accomplishment so far?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00114:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 43.59838365347087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s our pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to begin with you, Terry. Can you tell us what the role of a flight activities officer is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For each mission we’re assigned, usually well in advance, usually about 14 months away from actual liftoff. Part of the reason behind that is we’re one of the integrators for the flight. We work very closely with the flight directors, the crew, engineering, and the other disciplines to bring together all the mission objectives into a cohesive plan. So we really start about 14 months out working with the program, making sure that we can meet their objectives.\\n\\n We start laying out some rough draft timelines on a high level, just pigeonhole where we think things are going to go. There usually is some work done before at a higher level that just basically says we think we can do, say, three EVAs [Extravehicular Activities], and we can transfer this amount of stuff, and this is where we think the equipment transfer is going to occur. We really get down into the depth and see how it all fits together, because typically there’s a lot of constraints, both crew timewise, spatially, like before you put module X on the port, you have to clear it or inspect it. We just work closely with the different organizations to make that plan all fit together like a puzzle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role as the lead timeliner, Gail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00114:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.792289189483395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m working mostly Constellation now. Last November I got retasked from working [STS]-119 into working on Constellation, because they’re starting to step up the effort. In fact, there’s a meeting going on right now with the system module review. I’m heading back over to University of Houston-Clear Lake [Houston, Texas] where we’re using their auditorium to present a lot of our data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great! You’re working on a new mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Working on a new mission. STS-130 will deliver Node 3 and the Cupola next February, hopefully. I guess we’ll see the actual date once these delays all trickle through. After that, I think I’m going to eventually either move into the Constellation realm or start to get trained on the Space Station side of things. It depends on where the opportunities open up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for taking time out of your day today to talk to us about the mission. We certainly appreciate it and we’ve enjoyed it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. It was a great mission, and we still share the same office, even though we’re working different projects now. We reference [STS]-124 at least once a week.\n\nWe do, we do. We do, the greatest mission ever. We have our picture from hanging the plaque in our office so that we can always remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll have to use that quote, “the greatest mission ever.”\\n\\n (Break in audio)\n\nYou were talking about having shifts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.386363244994094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the same time the Shuttle was flying out. The last flight was July of 2011, so not only did we successfully fly that out but we also were in the process of transitioning all of the assets. I had started that in my space operations job before I left to go to program analysis and evaluation.\\n\\n We knew the Shuttle Program would be coming to an end, so we started the process of how do you transition people and assets. We started the whole process of where are the orbiters going to live. But by the time it was actually done I wasn’t part of that process at all anymore. I don’t take any accountability for where they ended up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2008 you authored an article with Mike [Michael R.] Duffey for the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. That was based on my doctoral dissertation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just thought that was interesting. For financial valuation methodologies for NASA’s human spaceflight projects. Part of it I was reading, it said that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were really desperate if you were reading that puppy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t read all of it, but I read parts of it. “Over the next few years representing amazing opportunities to effectively share resources across the Agency in a manner never considered before in the future of human spaceflight, and a real option analysis framework.” But it was a real option analysis, that’s what the paper was on, right? I just thought that was interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.807747668029414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I pretty well knew that I was ready for a change. I knew that Charlie and Lori really wanted to restructure that office that I was running. They kept pulling pieces away largely into the CFO’s [Chief Financial Officer] office. You could argue that many of them had lived in that office in the past, and what Mike had done was put them all together in a different formulation. So, I knew it was pretty much the right timing for me. I stayed in the traditional civil service retirement system, so 55 years of age and 30 plus years were the magic numbers, and in June of 2011 I was 55 years old with 33 years of service. I chose to retire at the beginning of July.\\n\\n A couple months prior to that when the word started to get out that I was thinking of that, Lockheed Martin asked if I were interested. I was talking to three or four different groups. But I actually formally applied for a job with Lockheed Martin and that was what I transitioned to after my long weekend of retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t take a long time off evidently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were timing constraints on both sides in terms of when I could be done at NASA and the advantages of being into the system with Lockheed Martin by a certain time. It just made it work out that I did have one extra day. It was the Fourth of July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got a holiday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a holiday and showed up for work on Tuesday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you working on first when you went to Lockheed Martin?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 39.57331651345393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so it was an easy transition for me. But all along, without telling me so, the Lockheed folks had pretty much planned to try to twist my arm to get back here [to Houston]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did in 2014."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 2014. Clearly they had been working me over for a while. The manager down here at the time, Cleon Lacefield, had been wanting to retire, and they were looking to try to find somebody replace Cleon. They were looking for somebody that had a fair amount of NASA experience.\\n\\n Earlier in that year they approached me as to “Okay, we need a decision. Are you really no? Or are you really interested in doing this?” My wife and I talked about it and decided that we could find a way to make it work. It was a great job. Then they announced it in June of ’14. I started basically at the job at that time. Cleon hung around through the end of July-ish as a transition and then it was all on my own, with this big flight test coming up in just a few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a busy year for Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It ended up being a very busy year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that buildup to that EFT-1 [Exploration Flight Test-1] and what was going on from the Lockheed side."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.856933344348526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was a lot of folks that spent a lot of time and really focused on what we needed to do that flight. We didn’t try to do everything. We didn’t try to integrate a full service module. It was basically just a structure that we built. We were just in the formulation of working with this European deal. There were things that definitely were—I would say we scaled the test to the right types of things that we could demonstrate, but I still personally expected to have more issues and anomalies to deal with after the test.\\n\\n I think that’s just a testament to the folks that put the time in integrating all the systems. The fact that we had built the early version of our integrated test lab to run the hardware and the software together. The team processing in Florida, it was the second vehicle they’d been through, so there was still learning involved and there were still stumbles along the way, but we didn’t kill the schedule with them, and we didn’t take shortcuts to not fix problems that we found along the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Mark Geyer. In the last interview you talked how you always seemed to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I said Mark and I have bounced off each other many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Basically you were in the same positions, only him for NASA and you for Lockheed Martin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was a very positive experience I think. But Mark had the foresight as the Program Manager to push for the mission. When they were coming out of the cancellation mode, there wasn’t another test mission after Pad Abort 1. He worked with the Lockheed Martin team and the NASA team to help formulate that test and to scale it appropriately so that it could do a lot of very important things but it wasn’t trying to do too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was important for morale as much as anything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.61881482705392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I said Mark and I have bounced off each other many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Basically you were in the same positions, only him for NASA and you for Lockheed Martin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was a very positive experience I think. But Mark had the foresight as the Program Manager to push for the mission. When they were coming out of the cancellation mode, there wasn’t another test mission after Pad Abort 1. He worked with the Lockheed Martin team and the NASA team to help formulate that test and to scale it appropriately so that it could do a lot of very important things but it wasn’t trying to do too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was important for morale as much as anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you looked at just the press clippings, the worldwide impact, it really was significant. Which surprised me. I was not totally convinced that the general public would get the fact that this was outside of LEO. Relatively speaking, we only flew 3,600 miles. The Moon is still 240,000 miles away, so 237 thousand further miles away. But all the public response, they got the exploration piece. They got that the Earth looked different in the camera view out the window than they had seen from Space Station for all these years. I thought that was really exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a whole generation that haven’t seen those photos."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.79868314117102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was a very positive experience I think. But Mark had the foresight as the Program Manager to push for the mission. When they were coming out of the cancellation mode, there wasn’t another test mission after Pad Abort 1. He worked with the Lockheed Martin team and the NASA team to help formulate that test and to scale it appropriately so that it could do a lot of very important things but it wasn’t trying to do too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was important for morale as much as anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you looked at just the press clippings, the worldwide impact, it really was significant. Which surprised me. I was not totally convinced that the general public would get the fact that this was outside of LEO. Relatively speaking, we only flew 3,600 miles. The Moon is still 240,000 miles away, so 237 thousand further miles away. But all the public response, they got the exploration piece. They got that the Earth looked different in the camera view out the window than they had seen from Space Station for all these years. I thought that was really exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a whole generation that haven’t seen those photos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think even though I was making a statement for my generation, it also spoke to a lot of generations younger that this was something really significant that they were part of and did. Now we just need to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. There is an international aspect to it of course with ESA [European Space Agency building the service module."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 46.442981267967795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you looked at just the press clippings, the worldwide impact, it really was significant. Which surprised me. I was not totally convinced that the general public would get the fact that this was outside of LEO. Relatively speaking, we only flew 3,600 miles. The Moon is still 240,000 miles away, so 237 thousand further miles away. But all the public response, they got the exploration piece. They got that the Earth looked different in the camera view out the window than they had seen from Space Station for all these years. I thought that was really exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a whole generation that haven’t seen those photos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think even though I was making a statement for my generation, it also spoke to a lot of generations younger that this was something really significant that they were part of and did. Now we just need to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. There is an international aspect to it of course with ESA [European Space Agency building the service module."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you just want to talk about that relationship with ESA and how that works?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.16913310784789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think it’s a positive thing. But we’re glad that we have the module to work on now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. The next flight that’s scheduled is the Ascent Abort Test 2 [AA-2]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ascent Abort Test 2 is scheduled. I don’t think they’ve really announced it. We picked a date when we did the study of April 27th. Turns out that’s a Saturday, so that’s not really a launch day. I think probably that next week in early May is going to be the target date when they announce it. We’re building the launch abort system for that down in Florida today, and that includes the structural piece that mounts to the capsule. JSC has built a special capsule for the test, so we have the structure and then all three motors that are involved in the launch abort system, and the covering fairings and ogives are all in work. We will be basically handing over what the government calls the DD250 [Material Inspection and Receiving Report] step of the launch abort system for that test, which is in the third week of January is the plan. That’s all coming together. We’ve got one more motor finishing up in Elkton, Maryland, this month, and then everything will be coming together in Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good to see something go again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It will be good to see something go. It’s an interesting test. It’s a short test. Aborts are not very long, but they’re critical to show the capability. We’ve done it from the ground level on Pad Abort 1. Now we do it at max dynamic pressure, so we see all the interactions. It’ll be a good test. That’ll help keep our momentum going so that now we head to the EM-1 mission in mid 2020."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then through all of this now we’ve had another presidential administration transition."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 41.29903678649766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ascent Abort Test 2 is scheduled. I don’t think they’ve really announced it. We picked a date when we did the study of April 27th. Turns out that’s a Saturday, so that’s not really a launch day. I think probably that next week in early May is going to be the target date when they announce it. We’re building the launch abort system for that down in Florida today, and that includes the structural piece that mounts to the capsule. JSC has built a special capsule for the test, so we have the structure and then all three motors that are involved in the launch abort system, and the covering fairings and ogives are all in work. We will be basically handing over what the government calls the DD250 [Material Inspection and Receiving Report] step of the launch abort system for that test, which is in the third week of January is the plan. That’s all coming together. We’ve got one more motor finishing up in Elkton, Maryland, this month, and then everything will be coming together in Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good to see something go again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It will be good to see something go. It’s an interesting test. It’s a short test. Aborts are not very long, but they’re critical to show the capability. We’ve done it from the ground level on Pad Abort 1. Now we do it at max dynamic pressure, so we see all the interactions. It’ll be a good test. That’ll help keep our momentum going so that now we head to the EM-1 mission in mid 2020."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then through all of this now we’ve had another presidential administration transition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read that actually there was talk when President [Donald] Trump first took over that he possibly wanted to put a crew on EM-1 or had thought about the possibility."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.538850000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve been part of every NASA Mars mission since Viking, and so Lockheed has been the industry partner, whether it’s been orbiters, landers, or the entry systems for rovers. It was a good week. I think you’re right. I have a talk next week to give, and that’s the theme that I’m taking, that there’s a perception that this is a down quiet time. But, if you really look at it, you have private capital going into building new launch systems, you have three human capsules being developed and built, and those are just the ones that NASA is funding. You have another one on Blue Origin that is today a suborbital system, but they have design and ideas to move further out into that. You have a whole series they’re going to announce tomorrow the small lander contracts that they’re going to award.\\n\\n So, it really is a very busy time, but it’s different from past times because it has a whole spectrum of private capital, different contracting methods, different oversight methods, different roles across it, and frankly some not written yet. How are all these things going to play? How is the suborbital market going to change things if you get a Blue and a Virgin really on a regular flight rate? What does it mean for a vehicle to be flying every couple weeks like that? I think there’s still some big changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you said, the spectrum is so wide, whereas in Apollo everything was laser-focused. The purpose could be—well, it was explained by the President in one sentence. Go to the Moon and come back safely. I think it’s exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been reading one of the Apollo histories just to remind myself of all those pieces. It’s right up there actually [pointing at bookshelf]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo, by Charles Murray and Catherine Bly Cox. It’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the definitive. We use it a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 38.3765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been reading one of the Apollo histories just to remind myself of all those pieces. It’s right up there actually [pointing at bookshelf]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo, by Charles Murray and Catherine Bly Cox. It’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the definitive. We use it a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoy it because it mentions so many people, and so many people that I know from when I started. Even folks that retired shortly thereafter I still had some interaction with, a lot of the folks. That’s kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things I had from an article in 2000, it described one of your jobs and assets at the time, in 2000, was you were good at boosting morale. You’re quoted in it as saying, “When I get pulled in all these different directions by so many tasks and so many people, I can maintain an even keel and not overreact to situations,” and that you were praised by your coworkers as a “rousing locker room motivator, a man who can revive flagging troops.”\\n\\n You credited a wrestling coach that you had had, Dave Clelland, as a role model. In our first interview you also talked about those engineers that you were just talking about, the people that got us to the Moon, and how they were your mentors, and you were working with them. While we have a few minutes, talk about the importance of NASA and these other companies too, like Lockheed Martin. How do they inspire the next generation? I know we have STEM [curriculum based on Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math], but do you see it when you go out and give talks or just talk to people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00272:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s doing well. I can tell when he’s talked to people. I can tell what’s new if I’ve heard him a couple times. I can tell where that’s new information. I’ve talked to him a couple times about things and it gets incorporated in the next talk. He is learning quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Okay, well, we’ve kept you a little bit over. But is there anything else you wanted to mention before we left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we’ve covered you pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ll figure something out if you need me again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. We have flights coming up so it might be good to talk to you after those. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00660:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.344769193222914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say everybody had their formal roles, and one of my informal roles throughout that COTS process was being a translator, explaining some of the legal aspects to the engineers, some of the business aspects to the engineers, and trying to be a go-between between folks who have vastly different backgrounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any insight as to why, at the end of the day, all those discussions weren’t quite enough for RpK to raise the funding it needed? From your perspective in the legal role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my perspective—NASA deals with some of this on a smaller scale all the time, frankly. When you think about going and trying to raise large amounts of private capital, you’re pitching this idea and you don’t need a million bucks, you need $500 million. One of the things that maybe NASA doesn’t quite get, and I think this is what happened to RpK, is you have to be better than every other investment opportunity out there.\\n\\n Big investors, folks who have a lot of money, New York types, they have 6, 8, 10, 12 folks in and out of their office every day saying, “If you give me $100 million, here’s what I’m going to do with it. Here’s your return on your investment.” They’re constantly cranking through these potential deals to see where they’re going to put their bets, where they’re going to put their money. There are a lot of things going for COTS, but I think at the stage it was in, there were just other investment opportunities that a lot of private capital found to be a little more firm, maybe a little better guaranteed return, and so you start to cut down on who’s willing to make a bet on building spaceships. I think ultimately that’s where it ran into some trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the discussions with NASA making the final decision to terminate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was part of all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about what sort of issues came up and how those discussions proceeded?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00660:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.11, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rebecca, you can’t put a number on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to infinity and beyond?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess I’ll just answer it this way. We worked a lot of hours on COTS—not just me, but we were regularly working lots of nights. I can remember one particular meeting running into Alan [Lindenmoyer] at the mall, and he said, “Oh, I’m so glad that I ran into you.” While my wife shopped and his family shopped, we sat down for two hours in the food court, and we mapped out some strategy to get something done. We threw ourselves into COTS pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a vote in the selection process, or were the legal people just advising?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No no, just advising. Just doing the same types of things that we would do in a procurement context, making sure that what they were considering they were documenting correctly, that they were following the process that we had laid out and said we were going to follow, and things of that nature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were walking through this process, did you have reservations on whether or not the legal process that you put in place was going to be able to be defensible, because didn’t you have a couple of chances to answer some questions whether or not this was legal and the right thing to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00731:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 213.53856961288795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure. Today is one of those very rare not busy schedules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The launch went off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The launch went off fine. The mission is going extremely well. In fact the guys at Houston [Texas, Johnson Space Center] even have time to do some practical jokes. I just saw a picture they sent in. Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz, on I think it was Apollo 13, and the original mission crew. I never can remember the other guy’s name that was on the off shift with Kranz on Apollo 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glynn [S.] Lunney?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it might have been Glynn. You’re the history guys. You know this kind of stuff. There was a whole black-and-white picture with everybody with black pants and white shirts and skinny black ties and the guys in the DAT [Damage Assessment] Team, who since there’s hardly any damage or anything of interest on the Orbiter TPS [Thermal Protection System] to work, all dressed up in white shirts and skinny black ties and vests with Apollo mission patches on them. You can tell it’s a good day in a mission when everybody has time to act the fool, play a little game, play jokes on one another. Gene Kranz came in so he’s in the new picture as well as the old ones. That’s a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice tie. Well, tell us if you would how you became involved with the Orbiter Project in Rockwell."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.21139373140484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm Mike McReynolds and I worked for 32 years at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow! Good to be reminded. I guess my first question for you is how you.decided to apply for a job at the National Archives"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was an instructor at the SUNY College at Fredonia, New York and teaching Western Civ and U.S. History. I had an MA from the University ofChicago and knew that I wouldn't be able to stay at Fredonia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a temporary ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had a two year contract. I could have had a second two year contract, but I knew that I had to do something else. The National Archives was recruiting at the Organization ofAmerican Historians in Philadelphia. So I talked with them about a career at the National Archives, and that's how I goi to the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't really prepare for an archival career; you were preparing to be an historian."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.123770812672042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was an instructor at the SUNY College at Fredonia, New York and teaching Western Civ and U.S. History. I had an MA from the University ofChicago and knew that I wouldn't be able to stay at Fredonia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a temporary ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had a two year contract. I could have had a second two year contract, but I knew that I had to do something else. The National Archives was recruiting at the Organization ofAmerican Historians in Philadelphia. So I talked with them about a career at the National Archives, and that's how I goi to the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't really prepare for an archival career; you were preparing to be an historian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, though I had thought about being a librarian or archivist throughout my ... that was always in the background ofmy thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any library science classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.026412014080048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had a two year contract. I could have had a second two year contract, but I knew that I had to do something else. The National Archives was recruiting at the Organization ofAmerican Historians in Philadelphia. So I talked with them about a career at the National Archives, and that's how I goi to the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't really prepare for an archival career; you were preparing to be an historian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, though I had thought about being a librarian or archivist throughout my ... that was always in the background ofmy thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any library science classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I had applied to the University ofToronto and Columbia University Library Schools, before I got the job at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wer~n•t a complete stranger to it?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.140457793422275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, though I had thought about being a librarian or archivist throughout my ... that was always in the background ofmy thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any library science classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I had applied to the University ofToronto and Columbia University Library Schools, before I got the job at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wer~n•t a complete stranger to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the job, did it meet your expectations? Did you have a vision ofwhat it would be like working at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.37828643713586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I had applied to the University ofToronto and Columbia University Library Schools, before I got the job at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wer~n•t a complete stranger to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the job, did it meet your expectations? Did you have a vision ofwhat it would be like working at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very fortunate in that my first position was in the judicial records section which had been my interest while I was in graduate school. I was primarily a reference archivist the first five years, and that is what I thought I would be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with researchers?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.864762707928733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the job, did it meet your expectations? Did you have a vision ofwhat it would be like working at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very fortunate in that my first position was in the judicial records section which had been my interest while I was in graduate school. I was primarily a reference archivist the first five years, and that is what I thought I would be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with researchers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, working with researchers and with records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get training on the job when you first arrived? How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.183069675476368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very fortunate in that my first position was in the judicial records section which had been my interest while I was in graduate school. I was primarily a reference archivist the first five years, and that is what I thought I would be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with researchers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, working with researchers and with records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get training on the job when you first arrived? How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other people that worked in the judicial section at that time. One was Don Mosholder who was an archives technician and Marion Johnson was the archivist. Marion spent almost all of his time with the Warren Commission Records. Most ofthe on job tutoring that I got came from Don Mosholder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't have formal training?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.758966306084854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, working with researchers and with records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get training on the job when you first arrived? How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other people that worked in the judicial section at that time. One was Don Mosholder who was an archives technician and Marion Johnson was the archivist. Marion spent almost all of his time with the Warren Commission Records. Most ofthe on job tutoring that I got came from Don Mosholder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't have formal training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they did have a very extensive training course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you participated in?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.398851451205392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other people that worked in the judicial section at that time. One was Don Mosholder who was an archives technician and Marion Johnson was the archivist. Marion spent almost all of his time with the Warren Commission Records. Most ofthe on job tutoring that I got came from Don Mosholder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't have formal training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they did have a very extensive training course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you participated in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Mabel Deutrich and Frank Evans were the instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the class operate when you were there? Once a week or ..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.887612723561546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they did have a very extensive training course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you participated in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Mabel Deutrich and Frank Evans were the instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the class operate when you were there? Once a week or ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was twice a week. It went on for two years. We had exams. Mabel taught for the second and third semester's administrative history ofthe United States. That was considered by the trainees to be horribly boring, but it turned out to be very useful for our careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't appreciate it at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.652903026179494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Mabel Deutrich and Frank Evans were the instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the class operate when you were there? Once a week or ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was twice a week. It went on for two years. We had exams. Mabel taught for the second and third semester's administrative history ofthe United States. That was considered by the trainees to be horribly boring, but it turned out to be very useful for our careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't appreciate it at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was involved in the training, was it really primarily Mabel and Frank? No others?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.503225584643882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was twice a week. It went on for two years. We had exams. Mabel taught for the second and third semester's administrative history ofthe United States. That was considered by the trainees to be horribly boring, but it turned out to be very useful for our careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't appreciate it at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was involved in the training, was it really primarily Mabel and Frank? No others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a two person Office ofPersonnel at the time. Most ofthe personnel work was being done at GSA, and so the director ofthat office actually directed the assignments. What we now call CIDS assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did go on rotations?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.670250649604313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was involved in the training, was it really primarily Mabel and Frank? No others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a two person Office ofPersonnel at the time. Most ofthe personnel work was being done at GSA, and so the director ofthat office actually directed the assignments. What we now call CIDS assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did go on rotations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very thorough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds that way, much more so than happened in the interim. Well actually I would like to hear a little bit more generally about your career. You started out in the judicial unit."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 35.189167388449235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a two person Office ofPersonnel at the time. Most ofthe personnel work was being done at GSA, and so the director ofthat office actually directed the assignments. What we now call CIDS assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did go on rotations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very thorough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds that way, much more so than happened in the interim. Well actually I would like to hear a little bit more generally about your career. You started out in the judicial unit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then where did you go from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.987963764943594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very thorough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds that way, much more so than happened in the interim. Well actually I would like to hear a little bit more generally about your career. You started out in the judicial unit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then where did you go from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working as a reference archivist in judicial and didn't have any thoughts ofmoving around at the time. That looked like what I wanted to do. The National Archives ofthe United States was hosting the 1976 !CA (International Congress Archives) and they needed someone to prepare for it. This was 1974. Al Leisinger, who had been a mentor of Bert Rhoads (who was the Archivist at the time) suggested me to Bert Rhodes and Jim O'Neill who was Deputy Archivist, and I interviewed with them. I had no idea that I would be moving to their front office so quickly as a grade eleven archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been stunning."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.319959738826213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then where did you go from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working as a reference archivist in judicial and didn't have any thoughts ofmoving around at the time. That looked like what I wanted to do. The National Archives ofthe United States was hosting the 1976 !CA (International Congress Archives) and they needed someone to prepare for it. This was 1974. Al Leisinger, who had been a mentor of Bert Rhoads (who was the Archivist at the time) suggested me to Bert Rhodes and Jim O'Neill who was Deputy Archivist, and I interviewed with them. I had no idea that I would be moving to their front office so quickly as a grade eleven archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been stunning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what !CA meant, so after the interview was over with, I went up to the library and asked the librarian ifshe knew what ICA w'as. I spent five years there, prim\"!'ily preparing for the Congress. I also did quite a bit ofspeech writing. At times that was about half my work. Then the National Archives got involved in a joint publication with the Soviet Union archives on the documents for the relations between the two countries from 1765 to 1815. I was the administrative officer for that publication. So that was the big change in my career. It was just a real shift in everything that I was doing. It also gave me an idea ofwhat the National Archives was; much broader. Being a reference archivist in those days, in Archives I, your desk was in the stacks, your reference letters were signed by the division director. Congressional letters were signed by the Archivist. It was very bureaucratic and much closed in, physically as well as bureaucratically. So the move to the front office really opened my eyes to a Jot of things going on at the National Archives that I had no idea had happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think Al picked you?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.91106637647357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working as a reference archivist in judicial and didn't have any thoughts ofmoving around at the time. That looked like what I wanted to do. The National Archives ofthe United States was hosting the 1976 !CA (International Congress Archives) and they needed someone to prepare for it. This was 1974. Al Leisinger, who had been a mentor of Bert Rhoads (who was the Archivist at the time) suggested me to Bert Rhodes and Jim O'Neill who was Deputy Archivist, and I interviewed with them. I had no idea that I would be moving to their front office so quickly as a grade eleven archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been stunning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what !CA meant, so after the interview was over with, I went up to the library and asked the librarian ifshe knew what ICA w'as. I spent five years there, prim\"!'ily preparing for the Congress. I also did quite a bit ofspeech writing. At times that was about half my work. Then the National Archives got involved in a joint publication with the Soviet Union archives on the documents for the relations between the two countries from 1765 to 1815. I was the administrative officer for that publication. So that was the big change in my career. It was just a real shift in everything that I was doing. It also gave me an idea ofwhat the National Archives was; much broader. Being a reference archivist in those days, in Archives I, your desk was in the stacks, your reference letters were signed by the division director. Congressional letters were signed by the Archivist. It was very bureaucratic and much closed in, physically as well as bureaucratically. So the move to the front office really opened my eyes to a Jot of things going on at the National Archives that I had no idea had happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think Al picked you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young and he thought I could do the job"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Your phone just rang one day?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.67896264052619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what !CA meant, so after the interview was over with, I went up to the library and asked the librarian ifshe knew what ICA w'as. I spent five years there, prim\"!'ily preparing for the Congress. I also did quite a bit ofspeech writing. At times that was about half my work. Then the National Archives got involved in a joint publication with the Soviet Union archives on the documents for the relations between the two countries from 1765 to 1815. I was the administrative officer for that publication. So that was the big change in my career. It was just a real shift in everything that I was doing. It also gave me an idea ofwhat the National Archives was; much broader. Being a reference archivist in those days, in Archives I, your desk was in the stacks, your reference letters were signed by the division director. Congressional letters were signed by the Archivist. It was very bureaucratic and much closed in, physically as well as bureaucratically. So the move to the front office really opened my eyes to a Jot of things going on at the National Archives that I had no idea had happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think Al picked you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young and he thought I could do the job"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Your phone just rang one day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I knew each other. I don't know how that happened. He was the special assistant to the Archivist at the time. There were several older gentlemen who had kind ofout lived their careers at the Archives. I met him and talked with him, and we kind ofjust knew each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it paid off?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.75440293391799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young and he thought I could do the job"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Your phone just rang one day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I knew each other. I don't know how that happened. He was the special assistant to the Archivist at the time. There were several older gentlemen who had kind ofout lived their careers at the Archives. I met him and talked with him, and we kind ofjust knew each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it paid off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved from there to other jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.393781037686654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I knew each other. I don't know how that happened. He was the special assistant to the Archivist at the time. There were several older gentlemen who had kind ofout lived their careers at the Archives. I met him and talked with him, and we kind ofjust knew each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it paid off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved from there to other jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, after five years, there. was very little work, because of GSA and what was going on in the Soviet Union. There was little international activity within the front office, and that whole program of died down. Clarence Lyons needed an assistant branch chief and asked if! would be willing to join his branch. Which is what I did, and that was my first real supervisory effort. Then five years after that the National Archives was forced to reestablish a Legislative Division. I was selected for that new division and spent five years there. Then there was the reorganization that took place with the preparation for the move to Archives II. The project and reference divisions were established, and I was made director ofthe Reference Division. I was doing for more than nine years at Archives I, Archives II, and Suitland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some interesting aspects ofthat job I know."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 29.326423375207394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved from there to other jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, after five years, there. was very little work, because of GSA and what was going on in the Soviet Union. There was little international activity within the front office, and that whole program of died down. Clarence Lyons needed an assistant branch chief and asked if! would be willing to join his branch. Which is what I did, and that was my first real supervisory effort. Then five years after that the National Archives was forced to reestablish a Legislative Division. I was selected for that new division and spent five years there. Then there was the reorganization that took place with the preparation for the move to Archives II. The project and reference divisions were established, and I was made director ofthe Reference Division. I was doing for more than nine years at Archives I, Archives II, and Suitland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some interesting aspects ofthat job I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I ended my career as Deputy Director ofthe Legislative Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would you like to really follow up on a.couple ofthings that you have mentioned. One is the International aspect of; you were involved in these international activities earlier on in your career. But I think you also got involved toward the end of your career with international activities once again. Were you involved with international activities throughout or were there ... ?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.291880710132585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I ended my career as Deputy Director ofthe Legislative Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would you like to really follow up on a.couple ofthings that you have mentioned. One is the International aspect of; you were involved in these international activities earlier on in your career. But I think you also got involved toward the end of your career with international activities once again. Were you involved with international activities throughout or were there ... ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Th.ere were times that I was not involved, but I did become known as the person who could deal with Russian Archivists. So through the eighties I would be asked to sit in on meetings with a group ofRussian archivists or archivists from Eastern Europe. In 1992, I was asked to join with the Library of Congress and the DIA to go over to Russia and try to establish microfilm programs in the various archives in the new Russia. In '95 I became the archives representative on the US-Russia POW-MIA Commission. All ofthat was very interesting; I also was chair of the International Committee for the Society of American Archivists offand on throughout my career. I kept involved in that way too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice a difference in the Russian archival world between your time when you were involved in the joint project early on and the time you were doing POW-MIA work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well certainly between the late ?O's and early S0's and then 1992 was very different. In '92 they were talking about opening up the archives. They were trying to come to the level offreedom of information that the United States had. But that turned very quickly, so by the time I was on the U.S.­ Russia POW-MIA Commission it was very difficult to get into the Russian military archives and the archives that would have been useful for the US side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was' a changeable situation, Did we have any way of influencing that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.324311900147315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Th.ere were times that I was not involved, but I did become known as the person who could deal with Russian Archivists. So through the eighties I would be asked to sit in on meetings with a group ofRussian archivists or archivists from Eastern Europe. In 1992, I was asked to join with the Library of Congress and the DIA to go over to Russia and try to establish microfilm programs in the various archives in the new Russia. In '95 I became the archives representative on the US-Russia POW-MIA Commission. All ofthat was very interesting; I also was chair of the International Committee for the Society of American Archivists offand on throughout my career. I kept involved in that way too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice a difference in the Russian archival world between your time when you were involved in the joint project early on and the time you were doing POW-MIA work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well certainly between the late ?O's and early S0's and then 1992 was very different. In '92 they were talking about opening up the archives. They were trying to come to the level offreedom of information that the United States had. But that turned very quickly, so by the time I was on the U.S.­ Russia POW-MIA Commission it was very difficult to get into the Russian military archives and the archives that would have been useful for the US side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was' a changeable situation, Did we have any way of influencing that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried very hard and it was almost a total failure. Nationalism took over in the middle and late 90's in Russia, and nothing was going to stop that as far as access to Russian archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That whole archival road has been such a mystery to me. It was good that you were able to experience it. I would like to hear you talk a little bit about challenges that you faced in your career. Some things that were really difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.36034655571924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well certainly between the late ?O's and early S0's and then 1992 was very different. In '92 they were talking about opening up the archives. They were trying to come to the level offreedom of information that the United States had. But that turned very quickly, so by the time I was on the U.S.­ Russia POW-MIA Commission it was very difficult to get into the Russian military archives and the archives that would have been useful for the US side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was' a changeable situation, Did we have any way of influencing that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried very hard and it was almost a total failure. Nationalism took over in the middle and late 90's in Russia, and nothing was going to stop that as far as access to Russian archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That whole archival road has been such a mystery to me. It was good that you were able to experience it. I would like to hear you talk a little bit about challenges that you faced in your career. Some things that were really difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly the getting into the front office and dealing with things that I had never done before. I had never drawn up a budget. I ended up getting grants ofabout two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the ICA Congress. I had never written a grant proposal before. I had never dealt with caterers. I had never dealt with translators, never dealt with bus companies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any help? Or was it really you and the ICA?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.178162839688042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried very hard and it was almost a total failure. Nationalism took over in the middle and late 90's in Russia, and nothing was going to stop that as far as access to Russian archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That whole archival road has been such a mystery to me. It was good that you were able to experience it. I would like to hear you talk a little bit about challenges that you faced in your career. Some things that were really difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly the getting into the front office and dealing with things that I had never done before. I had never drawn up a budget. I ended up getting grants ofabout two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the ICA Congress. I had never written a grant proposal before. I had never dealt with caterers. I had never dealt with translators, never dealt with bus companies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any help? Or was it really you and the ICA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was primarily me. In those five years, I had five different special assist~nts to the archivist as my supervisors. In halfthat time I had no direct supervisor at all. They just kept coming in and out. Morris Rieger and Al Leisinger had both been involved with the !CA quite a bit and so I used them alot as sources of information. We went to lunch every week for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were mentors?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.19795871076449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly the getting into the front office and dealing with things that I had never done before. I had never drawn up a budget. I ended up getting grants ofabout two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the ICA Congress. I had never written a grant proposal before. I had never dealt with caterers. I had never dealt with translators, never dealt with bus companies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any help? Or was it really you and the ICA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was primarily me. In those five years, I had five different special assist~nts to the archivist as my supervisors. In halfthat time I had no direct supervisor at all. They just kept coming in and out. Morris Rieger and Al Leisinger had both been involved with the !CA quite a bit and so I used them alot as sources of information. We went to lunch every week for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were mentors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have no idea. I can appreciate that we have different agencies."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.442176345293877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was primarily me. In those five years, I had five different special assist~nts to the archivist as my supervisors. In halfthat time I had no direct supervisor at all. They just kept coming in and out. Morris Rieger and Al Leisinger had both been involved with the !CA quite a bit and so I used them alot as sources of information. We went to lunch every week for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were mentors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have no idea. I can appreciate that we have different agencies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The next big challenge was learning to be a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's what I wanted to hear you talk about a little bit. You didn't really apply for this. I mean Clarence sort ofselected you. Did you have some difficulty making the decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.82464038365986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have no idea. I can appreciate that we have different agencies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The next big challenge was learning to be a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's what I wanted to hear you talk about a little bit. You didn't really apply for this. I mean Clarence sort ofselected you. Did you have some difficulty making the decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I knew that was exactly what I wanted to do, because the work load in the front office just died. I didn't know this, but I went to talk to Bert Rhoads about my possible assignments. But I went in there at the time, and he thought that was a good idea. Three days later he resigned, and just stunned everybody at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any insight into that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.360711537399848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The next big challenge was learning to be a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's what I wanted to hear you talk about a little bit. You didn't really apply for this. I mean Clarence sort ofselected you. Did you have some difficulty making the decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I knew that was exactly what I wanted to do, because the work load in the front office just died. I didn't know this, but I went to talk to Bert Rhoads about my possible assignments. But I went in there at the time, and he thought that was a good idea. Three days later he resigned, and just stunned everybody at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any insight into that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. When Jim O' Neill heard that I was leaving, he was very upset and tried to talk me into staying. He was going to be Acting Archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A challenge all on its own, but you decided it was time?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.06745726377761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I knew that was exactly what I wanted to do, because the work load in the front office just died. I didn't know this, but I went to talk to Bert Rhoads about my possible assignments. But I went in there at the time, and he thought that was a good idea. Three days later he resigned, and just stunned everybody at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any insight into that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. When Jim O' Neill heard that I was leaving, he was very upset and tried to talk me into staying. He was going to be Acting Archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A challenge all on its own, but you decided it was time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": ".It was time that I get back to the records and the people. I had supervised a staff, a volunteer staff and three people in the front office to work as translators. We translated all of the papers ofthe Congress into five languages. I had some experience with those people. My first division director, Mark Eikhoff, then Clarence Lyons as branch chief. They were mentors for me also as I became a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there formal training, did you take any classroom training."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.074952515308453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None at all. When Jim O' Neill heard that I was leaving, he was very upset and tried to talk me into staying. He was going to be Acting Archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A challenge all on its own, but you decided it was time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": ".It was time that I get back to the records and the people. I had supervised a staff, a volunteer staff and three people in the front office to work as translators. We translated all of the papers ofthe Congress into five languages. I had some experience with those people. My first division director, Mark Eikhoff, then Clarence Lyons as branch chief. They were mentors for me also as I became a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there formal training, did you take any classroom training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably did take a class, some kind ofclassroom training, but it was worthless. It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ifit was the same one I took, it was a GSA, about a week and it wasn't memorable."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.41661390589828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": ".It was time that I get back to the records and the people. I had supervised a staff, a volunteer staff and three people in the front office to work as translators. We translated all of the papers ofthe Congress into five languages. I had some experience with those people. My first division director, Mark Eikhoff, then Clarence Lyons as branch chief. They were mentors for me also as I became a supervisor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there formal training, did you take any classroom training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably did take a class, some kind ofclassroom training, but it was worthless. It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ifit was the same one I took, it was a GSA, about a week and it wasn't memorable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarence was very good about teaching me how to get the paper work done. How to protect the staff, so they could get their work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He saw his role as mentor?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 37.12957100655365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably did take a class, some kind ofclassroom training, but it was worthless. It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ifit was the same one I took, it was a GSA, about a week and it wasn't memorable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarence was very good about teaching me how to get the paper work done. How to protect the staff, so they could get their work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He saw his role as mentor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We had a great staff and it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you had some experience and some advice, you felt more comfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.477301118392944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarence was very good about teaching me how to get the paper work done. How to protect the staff, so they could get their work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He saw his role as mentor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We had a great staff and it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you had some experience and some advice, you felt more comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Starting up the legislative division was also a new experience for me. I never dealt with anyone on the Hill. Two historians there in the House and Senate informally supervised the Legislative Archives Division also. Dick Baker, Ray Smock and I talked on a weekly basis. It was helpful, yes, but we could also come back to the National Archives and say the Senate wants this or the House wants that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am sure it's still happening."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.085890131547714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We had a great staff and it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you had some experience and some advice, you felt more comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Starting up the legislative division was also a new experience for me. I never dealt with anyone on the Hill. Two historians there in the House and Senate informally supervised the Legislative Archives Division also. Dick Baker, Ray Smock and I talked on a weekly basis. It was helpful, yes, but we could also come back to the National Archives and say the Senate wants this or the House wants that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am sure it's still happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am sure it is. The National Archives for the most part was looked upon as a very friendly agency on the hill. We weren't asking for billions ofdollars. We weren't doing bad things with what we spent. We were looked upon as a good agency, so it was fairly easy to get involved in the politics ofit all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the guide project originate?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 40.09543347949746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Starting up the legislative division was also a new experience for me. I never dealt with anyone on the Hill. Two historians there in the House and Senate informally supervised the Legislative Archives Division also. Dick Baker, Ray Smock and I talked on a weekly basis. It was helpful, yes, but we could also come back to the National Archives and say the Senate wants this or the House wants that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am sure it's still happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am sure it is. The National Archives for the most part was looked upon as a very friendly agency on the hill. We weren't asking for billions ofdollars. We weren't doing bad things with what we spent. We were looked upon as a good agency, so it was fairly easy to get involved in the politics ofit all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the guide project originate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started before I took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh it did?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.217148310552734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am sure it is. The National Archives for the most part was looked upon as a very friendly agency on the hill. We weren't asking for billions ofdollars. We weren't doing bad things with what we spent. We were looked upon as a good agency, so it was fairly easy to get involved in the politics ofit all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the guide project originate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started before I took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh it did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There had been a planning between Smock, Baker and the National Archives for the Bi-Centennial of Congress. There were three projects that were going to be done. One was the guides, one was a preservation projects of Senate and House documents, and then a microfilming project ofthe early Congresses. All ofthose projects had come along when legislative records were part ofthe Diplomatic, Legislative_ and Fiscal Division. So when I took over those projects for the division many people did deadlines and all of this business. It was a major undertaking. Trudy Peterson, who was head of the Office in the National Archives was very supportive. We had a lot oftrainees come through and spend two or months working on various chapters. Virginia Purdy and Bob Kvasnicka were editors for us. Bob figured out a way of dealing with the changes ofcommittee names and functions, which is just constant. Trying to write a descriptive guide on those committees was impossible. So finally he came up with line charts which illustrated the changes ofcommittees, years and names of committees. He saved hundreds of paragraphs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am not sure ifBob has got sufficient credit."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.68572034505859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started before I took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh it did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There had been a planning between Smock, Baker and the National Archives for the Bi-Centennial of Congress. There were three projects that were going to be done. One was the guides, one was a preservation projects of Senate and House documents, and then a microfilming project ofthe early Congresses. All ofthose projects had come along when legislative records were part ofthe Diplomatic, Legislative_ and Fiscal Division. So when I took over those projects for the division many people did deadlines and all of this business. It was a major undertaking. Trudy Peterson, who was head of the Office in the National Archives was very supportive. We had a lot oftrainees come through and spend two or months working on various chapters. Virginia Purdy and Bob Kvasnicka were editors for us. Bob figured out a way of dealing with the changes ofcommittee names and functions, which is just constant. Trying to write a descriptive guide on those committees was impossible. So finally he came up with line charts which illustrated the changes ofcommittees, years and names of committees. He saved hundreds of paragraphs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am not sure ifBob has got sufficient credit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He saved us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked, got over that hurtle."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.42857816117621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There had been a planning between Smock, Baker and the National Archives for the Bi-Centennial of Congress. There were three projects that were going to be done. One was the guides, one was a preservation projects of Senate and House documents, and then a microfilming project ofthe early Congresses. All ofthose projects had come along when legislative records were part ofthe Diplomatic, Legislative_ and Fiscal Division. So when I took over those projects for the division many people did deadlines and all of this business. It was a major undertaking. Trudy Peterson, who was head of the Office in the National Archives was very supportive. We had a lot oftrainees come through and spend two or months working on various chapters. Virginia Purdy and Bob Kvasnicka were editors for us. Bob figured out a way of dealing with the changes ofcommittee names and functions, which is just constant. Trying to write a descriptive guide on those committees was impossible. So finally he came up with line charts which illustrated the changes ofcommittees, years and names of committees. He saved hundreds of paragraphs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am not sure ifBob has got sufficient credit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He saved us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked, got over that hurtle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met our publication date. We worked with GPO. They got three hand made copies done by the date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about the microfilming and preservation, did they also go forward?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.36508684575134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He saved us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked, got over that hurtle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met our publication date. We worked with GPO. They got three hand made copies done by the date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about the microfilming and preservation, did they also go forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went forward, yes. My deputy was David Kepley and we did have three people who were doing preservation work, reboxing, refoldering records. No one had kept track of their work. We had been given two hundred and fifty thousand dollars by Congress to do this. We had no idea if we had spent the money or not. So David dove into the records and straightened that problem out. Then the microfilming went forward too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Legislative. Any other challenges?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 42.627874273057046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met our publication date. We worked with GPO. They got three hand made copies done by the date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what about the microfilming and preservation, did they also go forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went forward, yes. My deputy was David Kepley and we did have three people who were doing preservation work, reboxing, refoldering records. No one had kept track of their work. We had been given two hundred and fifty thousand dollars by Congress to do this. We had no idea if we had spent the money or not. So David dove into the records and straightened that problem out. Then the microfilming went forward too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Legislative. Any other challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well umm the next big challenge I think was when I was head ofthe Reference Division and made the spokesman for the National Archives after the film \"JFK\" was released."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.621512380821585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember getting up one morning and getting the Washington Post and turning to the federal page, and there was my picture. And I thought my God, now what have I got myself into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in the midst ofthis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my fifteen minutes of fame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was hard to top that experience"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well our FBI experience comes close to that. I had actually worked with the GSA lawyer, Steve Garfmkel. I had worked with him on Watergate records before Judge Green actually forced the National Archives and the FBI to do a full appraisal ofFBI records (1980-81).\n\nSo !knew what the whole background ofthe appraisal problem was, but it was a fascinating experience. I don't know ifyou agree with me or not but one ofthe things I thought about the schedule we came out with. Fifteen people trying to get a job done. Having very good ideas of what they thought should be done. The schedule was much too complicated. We tried to cut the cheese so thinly, so that it made it difficult for the FBI to implement. I have heard that the FBI has been sending more records here in recent years, which were certainly not the case for many years after that, 1982."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has precipitated the avalanche of FBI materials is they have to relocate from a building in Virginia to West Virginia, and they don't want to move the files. It's the same old story .."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.801680423135092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my fifteen minutes of fame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was hard to top that experience"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well our FBI experience comes close to that. I had actually worked with the GSA lawyer, Steve Garfmkel. I had worked with him on Watergate records before Judge Green actually forced the National Archives and the FBI to do a full appraisal ofFBI records (1980-81).\n\nSo !knew what the whole background ofthe appraisal problem was, but it was a fascinating experience. I don't know ifyou agree with me or not but one ofthe things I thought about the schedule we came out with. Fifteen people trying to get a job done. Having very good ideas of what they thought should be done. The schedule was much too complicated. We tried to cut the cheese so thinly, so that it made it difficult for the FBI to implement. I have heard that the FBI has been sending more records here in recent years, which were certainly not the case for many years after that, 1982."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has precipitated the avalanche of FBI materials is they have to relocate from a building in Virginia to West Virginia, and they don't want to move the files. It's the same old story .."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting clash of archival thoughts and ideas as to what should be kept and what shouldn't. What was the role ofthe FBI in the history ofthe United States? The fact that Charles Dollar, deputy project director, came in'after our first or second day ofvoting on appraisal decisions saying \"this - would be not only an archival document but also a court document and a political document. Folks we have got to think about that.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some interestipg conversations."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.22408935903899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well our FBI experience comes close to that. I had actually worked with the GSA lawyer, Steve Garfmkel. I had worked with him on Watergate records before Judge Green actually forced the National Archives and the FBI to do a full appraisal ofFBI records (1980-81).\n\nSo !knew what the whole background ofthe appraisal problem was, but it was a fascinating experience. I don't know ifyou agree with me or not but one ofthe things I thought about the schedule we came out with. Fifteen people trying to get a job done. Having very good ideas of what they thought should be done. The schedule was much too complicated. We tried to cut the cheese so thinly, so that it made it difficult for the FBI to implement. I have heard that the FBI has been sending more records here in recent years, which were certainly not the case for many years after that, 1982."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has precipitated the avalanche of FBI materials is they have to relocate from a building in Virginia to West Virginia, and they don't want to move the files. It's the same old story .."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting clash of archival thoughts and ideas as to what should be kept and what shouldn't. What was the role ofthe FBI in the history ofthe United States? The fact that Charles Dollar, deputy project director, came in'after our first or second day ofvoting on appraisal decisions saying \"this - would be not only an archival document but also a court document and a political document. Folks we have got to think about that.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some interestipg conversations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I have been fortunate to have-these kinds of activities like that throughout my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would be interested to know what you would describe as your best experience ofall the things you have done and been involved with, really the best thing."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.582321510043325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting clash of archival thoughts and ideas as to what should be kept and what shouldn't. What was the role ofthe FBI in the history ofthe United States? The fact that Charles Dollar, deputy project director, came in'after our first or second day ofvoting on appraisal decisions saying \"this - would be not only an archival document but also a court document and a political document. Folks we have got to think about that.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some interestipg conversations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I have been fortunate to have-these kinds of activities like that throughout my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would be interested to know what you would describe as your best experience ofall the things you have done and been involved with, really the best thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I always loved reference. So being head ofthe Reference Division gave me an opportunity to let the reference staffdo their work. I was always involved with the Freedom ofInformation Act. So that was a pivotal part ofmy work in reference. The work that we did on Watergate, especially with the Watergate Special Prosecution Force. I worked with Steve Tilley. We had fascinating resear.chers and that was fun. The FBI task force was fun too. I was fortunate, I really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like that was the case. Would you say anything ab_out ' your worse experience? Was there a worst experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.980357233381472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I have been fortunate to have-these kinds of activities like that throughout my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would be interested to know what you would describe as your best experience ofall the things you have done and been involved with, really the best thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I always loved reference. So being head ofthe Reference Division gave me an opportunity to let the reference staffdo their work. I was always involved with the Freedom ofInformation Act. So that was a pivotal part ofmy work in reference. The work that we did on Watergate, especially with the Watergate Special Prosecution Force. I worked with Steve Tilley. We had fascinating resear.chers and that was fun. The FBI task force was fun too. I was fortunate, I really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like that was the case. Would you say anything ab_out ' your worse experience? Was there a worst experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last few years were my worst experience. I had seen so many people leave the Archives very bitter. I was put in the situation where I could have been very bitter, and I determined that I wasn't going to be. So I got involved with the POW- MIA commission. Then I was also made the point person for Legislative electronic records. I geared up to keep in touch with all the stuffthat was going on with the Hill with electronic records, so that made the experience easier and better. But it wasn't easy the last three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can appreciate that. It's a major change. Well you made some clear moves as time went by and what precipitated those moves? Was it because an opportunity came up, and you decided to do something different or someone invited you to do something different?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.422619148201637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I always loved reference. So being head ofthe Reference Division gave me an opportunity to let the reference staffdo their work. I was always involved with the Freedom ofInformation Act. So that was a pivotal part ofmy work in reference. The work that we did on Watergate, especially with the Watergate Special Prosecution Force. I worked with Steve Tilley. We had fascinating resear.chers and that was fun. The FBI task force was fun too. I was fortunate, I really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like that was the case. Would you say anything ab_out ' your worse experience? Was there a worst experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last few years were my worst experience. I had seen so many people leave the Archives very bitter. I was put in the situation where I could have been very bitter, and I determined that I wasn't going to be. So I got involved with the POW- MIA commission. Then I was also made the point person for Legislative electronic records. I geared up to keep in touch with all the stuffthat was going on with the Hill with electronic records, so that made the experience easier and better. But it wasn't easy the last three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can appreciate that. It's a major change. Well you made some clear moves as time went by and what precipitated those moves? Was it because an opportunity came up, and you decided to do something different or someone invited you to do something different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was different through different changes. The movement up to the front office in international archival activities was just out ofthe blue. The move into Clarence Lyons.Branch was something that I wanted and would have campaigned for. Same way with Legislative, I was interested in doing something like that and same with Reference. They were things that I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember. .. were those jobs posted?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.136243498001818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last few years were my worst experience. I had seen so many people leave the Archives very bitter. I was put in the situation where I could have been very bitter, and I determined that I wasn't going to be. So I got involved with the POW- MIA commission. Then I was also made the point person for Legislative electronic records. I geared up to keep in touch with all the stuffthat was going on with the Hill with electronic records, so that made the experience easier and better. But it wasn't easy the last three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can appreciate that. It's a major change. Well you made some clear moves as time went by and what precipitated those moves? Was it because an opportunity came up, and you decided to do something different or someone invited you to do something different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was different through different changes. The movement up to the front office in international archival activities was just out ofthe blue. The move into Clarence Lyons.Branch was something that I wanted and would have campaigned for. Same way with Legislative, I was interested in doing something like that and same with Reference. They were things that I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember. .. were those jobs posted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so it's good you had the opportunity to make the decision yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.040270553335354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was different through different changes. The movement up to the front office in international archival activities was just out ofthe blue. The move into Clarence Lyons.Branch was something that I wanted and would have campaigned for. Same way with Legislative, I was interested in doing something like that and same with Reference. They were things that I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember. .. were those jobs posted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so it's good you had the opportunity to make the decision yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did taik to Trudy Peterson over the Legislative job and the Reference job before they were posted. I just indicated my interest in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other federal agencies to any great extent while you were here?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 30.044745059261505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so it's good you had the opportunity to make the decision yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did taik to Trudy Peterson over the Legislative job and the Reference job before they were posted. I just indicated my interest in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other federal agencies to any great extent while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I knew the records manager at the Department ofJustice and then during the FBI task force, ofcourse we got to know the FBI very well. I knew ihe Clerk's staff at the Supreme Court an~ I worked with them. I worked with various staffs on the Hill when I was in Legislative. I didn't have a wide contact ofrecords officers or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We would like to talk a little bit more about researchers. Were there any that stick in your mind as being particular fascinating?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.383050065846117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did taik to Trudy Peterson over the Legislative job and the Reference job before they were posted. I just indicated my interest in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other federal agencies to any great extent while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I knew the records manager at the Department ofJustice and then during the FBI task force, ofcourse we got to know the FBI very well. I knew ihe Clerk's staff at the Supreme Court an~ I worked with them. I worked with various staffs on the Hill when I was in Legislative. I didn't have a wide contact ofrecords officers or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We would like to talk a little bit more about researchers. Were there any that stick in your mind as being particular fascinating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ofcourse a lot ofthem were fascinating and I got to know many ofthem as friends. I worked with Allen Weinstein on his Alger Hiss book. I got to work with tow ofmy favorite professors, Sidney Fine and John Hope Franklin. I worked with Stan Kutler on Watergate and Randy Roberts on \"Bad Blood\" and Jack Johnson. Kermit Hall and Mary K. Bonsteal Tachau were legal historians who became good friends. And others in the Washington area such as Pete Daniel, Same Walker, Anna Nelson, - and Maeda Marcus. I was a member ofthe American Society for Legal History and a number ofthose people were researchers. It was same with the Society offor History of the Federal Government and the Organization of American Historians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were active in those professional organizations?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.536722295384575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I knew the records manager at the Department ofJustice and then during the FBI task force, ofcourse we got to know the FBI very well. I knew ihe Clerk's staff at the Supreme Court an~ I worked with them. I worked with various staffs on the Hill when I was in Legislative. I didn't have a wide contact ofrecords officers or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We would like to talk a little bit more about researchers. Were there any that stick in your mind as being particular fascinating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ofcourse a lot ofthem were fascinating and I got to know many ofthem as friends. I worked with Allen Weinstein on his Alger Hiss book. I got to work with tow ofmy favorite professors, Sidney Fine and John Hope Franklin. I worked with Stan Kutler on Watergate and Randy Roberts on \"Bad Blood\" and Jack Johnson. Kermit Hall and Mary K. Bonsteal Tachau were legal historians who became good friends. And others in the Washington area such as Pete Daniel, Same Walker, Anna Nelson, - and Maeda Marcus. I was a member ofthe American Society for Legal History and a number ofthose people were researchers. It was same with the Society offor History of the Federal Government and the Organization of American Historians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were active in those professional organizations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always easier if you knew these people through the professional organizations when things went wrong at the Nationa!'Archives. You could try to straighten it out. That happened a lot. I became the spokesman for the FBI task force at the American Legal History Society and OAH."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.818580328205083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ofcourse a lot ofthem were fascinating and I got to know many ofthem as friends. I worked with Allen Weinstein on his Alger Hiss book. I got to work with tow ofmy favorite professors, Sidney Fine and John Hope Franklin. I worked with Stan Kutler on Watergate and Randy Roberts on \"Bad Blood\" and Jack Johnson. Kermit Hall and Mary K. Bonsteal Tachau were legal historians who became good friends. And others in the Washington area such as Pete Daniel, Same Walker, Anna Nelson, - and Maeda Marcus. I was a member ofthe American Society for Legal History and a number ofthose people were researchers. It was same with the Society offor History of the Federal Government and the Organization of American Historians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were active in those professional organizations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always easier if you knew these people through the professional organizations when things went wrong at the Nationa!'Archives. You could try to straighten it out. That happened a lot. I became the spokesman for the FBI task force at the American Legal History Society and OAH."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fairly hostile. They wanted the red meat ofJ. Edgar Hoover documents and that sort ofthing for whatever reason. We never really found any smoking guns in the records when we went through them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It may or may not have been saved for whatever reason. You just don't know."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.242867031338982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always easier if you knew these people through the professional organizations when things went wrong at the Nationa!'Archives. You could try to straighten it out. That happened a lot. I became the spokesman for the FBI task force at the American Legal History Society and OAH."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fairly hostile. They wanted the red meat ofJ. Edgar Hoover documents and that sort ofthing for whatever reason. We never really found any smoking guns in the records when we went through them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It may or may not have been saved for whatever reason. You just don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, when I said that, they were not happy with me. It was dealing with researchers and something I dealt with all my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever one that was really a problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.825407812598868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fairly hostile. They wanted the red meat ofJ. Edgar Hoover documents and that sort ofthing for whatever reason. We never really found any smoking guns in the records when we went through them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It may or may not have been saved for whatever reason. You just don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, when I said that, they were not happy with me. It was dealing with researchers and something I dealt with all my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever one that was really a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had several real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature ofthe problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.472675347332075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, when I said that, they were not happy with me. It was dealing with researchers and something I dealt with all my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever one that was really a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had several real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature ofthe problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who was the researcher? He was German? He dealt with getting stolen art cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know who you are taking about but I can't think of his name [Willi Korte]."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.19186149703564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had several real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature ofthe problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who was the researcher? He was German? He dealt with getting stolen art cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know who you are taking about but I can't think of his name [Willi Korte]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He caused enough problems in the research room that we had to take his card away from him. That meant his livelihood was gone. We had a whole list of things that he had done. We had warned him that he would get his researcher privileges revoked. And eventually we took his research card away from him for six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a different in his behavior?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.990957218928486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who was the researcher? He was German? He dealt with getting stolen art cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know who you are taking about but I can't think of his name [Willi Korte]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He caused enough problems in the research room that we had to take his card away from him. That meant his livelihood was gone. We had a whole list of things that he had done. We had warned him that he would get his researcher privileges revoked. And eventually we took his research card away from him for six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a different in his behavior?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it did. When he came back, he was a lot more pleasant. He was still a difficult researcher, but he was better. We took research cards from... I guess six people during the nine years that I was in Reference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still happening"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.989952465476094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He caused enough problems in the research room that we had to take his card away from him. That meant his livelihood was gone. We had a whole list of things that he had done. We had warned him that he would get his researcher privileges revoked. And eventually we took his research card away from him for six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a different in his behavior?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it did. When he came back, he was a lot more pleasant. He was still a difficult researcher, but he was better. We took research cards from... I guess six people during the nine years that I was in Reference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still happening"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved with one theft incident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be something to talk a little about."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.988836072751216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it did. When he came back, he was a lot more pleasant. He was still a difficult researcher, but he was better. We took research cards from... I guess six people during the nine years that I was in Reference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still happening"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved with one theft incident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be something to talk a little about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The point person in that case was Mike Musick. It was Civil War stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was discovered somehow ..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.09870674750135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved with one theft incident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be something to talk a little about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The point person in that case was Mike Musick. It was Civil War stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was discovered somehow ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was discovered, I think Mike is the one who discovered it. Documents were put on the market. The man went to jail eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that is happening again fairly recently."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.44300749722372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The point person in that case was Mike Musick. It was Civil War stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was discovered somehow ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was discovered, I think Mike is the one who discovered it. Documents were put on the market. The man went to jail eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that is happening again fairly recently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something you always have to worry about as an archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's very hard to detect. It's interesting how it was detected. Can you talk about your relationship with the archival profession in general? You talked a little about the international archivists but were you involved in the Society ofAmerican Archivists?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.38111944135969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was discovered, I think Mike is the one who discovered it. Documents were put on the market. The man went to jail eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that is happening again fairly recently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something you always have to worry about as an archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's very hard to detect. It's interesting how it was detected. Can you talk about your relationship with the archival profession in general? You talked a little about the international archivists but were you involved in the Society ofAmerican Archivists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was involved from the beginning. I was one of those people who thought belonging to a national organization was a part of your job or your life as an archivist. I had gone to the AHA and the OAH as an historian/teacher. I hired on in September 1969 and the SAA was in October. It was in Washington so I went up. I always found it very beneficial to get to know other archivists and get outside the National Archives. Get some perspective on what the profession was like. Later I got involved in giving papers up in Canada. The Association of Canadian Archivists is really a great organization. It's much smaller than the SAA. A lot.more fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They really talk to one another."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.534577157066323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something you always have to worry about as an archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's very hard to detect. It's interesting how it was detected. Can you talk about your relationship with the archival profession in general? You talked a little about the international archivists but were you involved in the Society ofAmerican Archivists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was involved from the beginning. I was one of those people who thought belonging to a national organization was a part of your job or your life as an archivist. I had gone to the AHA and the OAH as an historian/teacher. I hired on in September 1969 and the SAA was in October. It was in Washington so I went up. I always found it very beneficial to get to know other archivists and get outside the National Archives. Get some perspective on what the profession was like. Later I got involved in giving papers up in Canada. The Association of Canadian Archivists is really a great organization. It's much smaller than the SAA. A lot.more fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They really talk to one another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the founding ofthe Mid-Atlantic Regional Archives Conference. I stopped going to that after a number ofyears but I was still asked to give papers and I did. It was the same kind of thing as going to the historical associations; getting to know people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "light, that's really what it's all about. I guess maybe I have another question; maybe you want to think about it a little bit. Ifyou were providing advice to a newly hired archivist today, one ofthe one's we hired a year ago, what would that advice be?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.927307952295916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was involved from the beginning. I was one of those people who thought belonging to a national organization was a part of your job or your life as an archivist. I had gone to the AHA and the OAH as an historian/teacher. I hired on in September 1969 and the SAA was in October. It was in Washington so I went up. I always found it very beneficial to get to know other archivists and get outside the National Archives. Get some perspective on what the profession was like. Later I got involved in giving papers up in Canada. The Association of Canadian Archivists is really a great organization. It's much smaller than the SAA. A lot.more fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They really talk to one another."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the founding ofthe Mid-Atlantic Regional Archives Conference. I stopped going to that after a number ofyears but I was still asked to give papers and I did. It was the same kind of thing as going to the historical associations; getting to know people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "light, that's really what it's all about. I guess maybe I have another question; maybe you want to think about it a little bit. Ifyou were providing advice to a newly hired archivist today, one ofthe one's we hired a year ago, what would that advice be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn as much about electronic records as you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was certainly a plus."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.030342169217683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the founding ofthe Mid-Atlantic Regional Archives Conference. I stopped going to that after a number ofyears but I was still asked to give papers and I did. It was the same kind of thing as going to the historical associations; getting to know people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "light, that's really what it's all about. I guess maybe I have another question; maybe you want to think about it a little bit. Ifyou were providing advice to a newly hired archivist today, one ofthe one's we hired a year ago, what would that advice be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn as much about electronic records as you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was certainly a plus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean when I was being hired there were people who came to the National Archives with PhDs in history. I only had a MA. I didn't think that was a problem, but certainly the leadership in the National Archives was looking for people who had a very solid background in American history. Over the years, I don't know when it changed, maybe 1990. We desperately needed people who could handle electronic records. I remember we hired a trainee, Kate Snodgrass, in 1997. She had some background in electronic records. The Legislative C.enter had all kinds of, not junk but electronic records that had no provenance or much documentation'. We didn't know what to do with them. I asked her in her CIDS paper to put that stuff together and she did a wonderful job. She did it without even doubting that she could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems like good advice. I think I have asked most ofthe questions that are on the Assembly's list. Is there a topic that we haven't discussed that you would like to talk more about?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.2559357435752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn as much about electronic records as you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was certainly a plus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean when I was being hired there were people who came to the National Archives with PhDs in history. I only had a MA. I didn't think that was a problem, but certainly the leadership in the National Archives was looking for people who had a very solid background in American history. Over the years, I don't know when it changed, maybe 1990. We desperately needed people who could handle electronic records. I remember we hired a trainee, Kate Snodgrass, in 1997. She had some background in electronic records. The Legislative C.enter had all kinds of, not junk but electronic records that had no provenance or much documentation'. We didn't know what to do with them. I asked her in her CIDS paper to put that stuff together and she did a wonderful job. She did it without even doubting that she could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems like good advice. I think I have asked most ofthe questions that are on the Assembly's list. Is there a topic that we haven't discussed that you would like to talk more about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is kind ofoutside the National Archives, but I had a group offriends here who played, basketball together. Later we played softball together that started exactly thirty years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just identity the people who were part ofthat group."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.839928603972446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean when I was being hired there were people who came to the National Archives with PhDs in history. I only had a MA. I didn't think that was a problem, but certainly the leadership in the National Archives was looking for people who had a very solid background in American history. Over the years, I don't know when it changed, maybe 1990. We desperately needed people who could handle electronic records. I remember we hired a trainee, Kate Snodgrass, in 1997. She had some background in electronic records. The Legislative C.enter had all kinds of, not junk but electronic records that had no provenance or much documentation'. We didn't know what to do with them. I asked her in her CIDS paper to put that stuff together and she did a wonderful job. She did it without even doubting that she could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems like good advice. I think I have asked most ofthe questions that are on the Assembly's list. Is there a topic that we haven't discussed that you would like to talk more about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is kind ofoutside the National Archives, but I had a group offriends here who played, basketball together. Later we played softball together that started exactly thirty years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just identity the people who were part ofthat group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was Gerry Haines, Doug Helms, John Butler, Tim Nenninger, John Vernon, Bill Grover, Clarence Lyons, Roger Bruns, George Briscoe, and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the group get started?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.407319264163512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was Gerry Haines, Doug Helms, John Butler, Tim Nenninger, John Vernon, Bill Grover, Clarence Lyons, Roger Bruns, George Briscoe, and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the group get started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just conversation at the snack bar I think. \"Well why don't we get together and play.\" That was in 1976. We got a gym where we could play basketball, and then we decided we would play softball also. We got into the DC federal league, and the Arlington league. This group was all archivists, and we had all been jocks at one time or another. It was one great evening for us. Eventually we started going to a bar after the games."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What bar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Key Hole Inn in Arlington. It no longer exists but there is still a group that meets on Wednesday evenings. The athletic activity and all the banter and laughter made the next day at the Archives a lot easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I can imagine. Did you talk about business?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.674799182403902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just conversation at the snack bar I think. \"Well why don't we get together and play.\" That was in 1976. We got a gym where we could play basketball, and then we decided we would play softball also. We got into the DC federal league, and the Arlington league. This group was all archivists, and we had all been jocks at one time or another. It was one great evening for us. Eventually we started going to a bar after the games."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What bar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Key Hole Inn in Arlington. It no longer exists but there is still a group that meets on Wednesday evenings. The athletic activity and all the banter and laughter made the next day at the Archives a lot easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I can imagine. Did you talk about business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, much too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it does help to have a different perspective on your colleagues. I don't know ifthat is happening today; that people are socializing outside the office."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.083110202671001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Key Hole Inn in Arlington. It no longer exists but there is still a group that meets on Wednesday evenings. The athletic activity and all the banter and laughter made the next day at the Archives a lot easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I can imagine. Did you talk about business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, much too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it does help to have a different perspective on your colleagues. I don't know ifthat is happening today; that people are socializing outside the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have had similar conversations about our generation ofarchivists. We were organizers and we just org'!Ilized a softball and basketball teams. We organized the Assembly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Weren't you involved with ...?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.647900225190002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, much too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it does help to have a different perspective on your colleagues. I don't know ifthat is happening today; that people are socializing outside the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have had similar conversations about our generation ofarchivists. We were organizers and we just org'!Ilized a softball and basketball teams. We organized the Assembly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Weren't you involved with ...?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk a little about the Assembly?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.719889139100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have had similar conversations about our generation ofarchivists. We were organizers and we just org'!Ilized a softball and basketball teams. We organized the Assembly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Weren't you involved with ...?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk a little about the Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in 1979 the Administrator of General Services wanted to send records on various subjects to various cities and set up regional archives. It got to that far: There had been a long effort to get the National Archives independent ofGSA. It got such that there was a committee ofemployees in 1980. January 1980 to oppose the regionalization of records. In January 1980 John Rurnbarger, Virginia Purdy, Gerry Haines, myself, and others decided to put a staff organization together that would pursue independence for the National Archives. And fight offthis idea sending records all over the country. That is how we got started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it actually happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.577654599000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk a little about the Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in 1979 the Administrator of General Services wanted to send records on various subjects to various cities and set up regional archives. It got to that far: There had been a long effort to get the National Archives independent ofGSA. It got such that there was a committee ofemployees in 1980. January 1980 to oppose the regionalization of records. In January 1980 John Rurnbarger, Virginia Purdy, Gerry Haines, myself, and others decided to put a staff organization together that would pursue independence for the National Archives. And fight offthis idea sending records all over the country. That is how we got started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it actually happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The founding committee issued a statement and asked staffmembers to meet for an organizational meeting. We met in the old auditorium ofArchives I on a Saturday morning. There were about 85 people and television cameras. It was agreed to establish the Assembly. Virginia Purdy was elected President, and quarterly meetings and a newsletter were started. Two years later I was president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You testified before Congress as President?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.308505110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in 1979 the Administrator of General Services wanted to send records on various subjects to various cities and set up regional archives. It got to that far: There had been a long effort to get the National Archives independent ofGSA. It got such that there was a committee ofemployees in 1980. January 1980 to oppose the regionalization of records. In January 1980 John Rurnbarger, Virginia Purdy, Gerry Haines, myself, and others decided to put a staff organization together that would pursue independence for the National Archives. And fight offthis idea sending records all over the country. That is how we got started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it actually happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The founding committee issued a statement and asked staffmembers to meet for an organizational meeting. We met in the old auditorium ofArchives I on a Saturday morning. There were about 85 people and television cameras. It was agreed to establish the Assembly. Virginia Purdy was elected President, and quarterly meetings and a newsletter were started. Two years later I was president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You testified before Congress as President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I testified before the House Subcommittee ofGovernment Operations. It was looking at the National Archives and GSA. That was a part of the general movement that led to the independence in 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have your remarks approved by someone before you could present."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.787227900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The founding committee issued a statement and asked staffmembers to meet for an organizational meeting. We met in the old auditorium ofArchives I on a Saturday morning. There were about 85 people and television cameras. It was agreed to establish the Assembly. Virginia Purdy was elected President, and quarterly meetings and a newsletter were started. Two years later I was president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You testified before Congress as President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I testified before the House Subcommittee ofGovernment Operations. It was looking at the National Archives and GSA. That was a part of the general movement that led to the independence in 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have your remarks approved by someone before you could present."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you knew this, but you were on the Executive Board at the time. I did a draft and then the Board did a great review. I thought we really had a very good statement. Clarence Lyons was my supervisor at the time and I told him I was going to do this. I was going to take time off. The Archivist at the time was Bob Warner and I thought he would ask. to read through my remarks, or ask to say something to me or have some representative say something to me, but I never talked to them at all. I was not on the panel that he was on. There were two other organizations that were testifying at the time. I didn't get any reaction from the front office before or afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful really; it really could have been otherwise."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.208031000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I testified before the House Subcommittee ofGovernment Operations. It was looking at the National Archives and GSA. That was a part of the general movement that led to the independence in 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have your remarks approved by someone before you could present."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you knew this, but you were on the Executive Board at the time. I did a draft and then the Board did a great review. I thought we really had a very good statement. Clarence Lyons was my supervisor at the time and I told him I was going to do this. I was going to take time off. The Archivist at the time was Bob Warner and I thought he would ask. to read through my remarks, or ask to say something to me or have some representative say something to me, but I never talked to them at all. I was not on the panel that he was on. There were two other organizations that were testifying at the time. I didn't get any reaction from the front office before or afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful really; it really could have been otherwise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had their own agenda and the Assembly was not part ofthat agenda: The Society of American Archivists got very much involved in that whole period also, and we were very happy to see the Assembly being represented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good moment. It was a good experience. I remember being worried at the tiine. I was in the same position being in line for the presidency and wondering if! would have to testify at some point and being relieved it never happened. I'm impressed."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.675590000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you knew this, but you were on the Executive Board at the time. I did a draft and then the Board did a great review. I thought we really had a very good statement. Clarence Lyons was my supervisor at the time and I told him I was going to do this. I was going to take time off. The Archivist at the time was Bob Warner and I thought he would ask. to read through my remarks, or ask to say something to me or have some representative say something to me, but I never talked to them at all. I was not on the panel that he was on. There were two other organizations that were testifying at the time. I didn't get any reaction from the front office before or afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful really; it really could have been otherwise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had their own agenda and the Assembly was not part ofthat agenda: The Society of American Archivists got very much involved in that whole period also, and we were very happy to see the Assembly being represented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good moment. It was a good experience. I remember being worried at the tiine. I was in the same position being in line for the presidency and wondering if! would have to testify at some point and being relieved it never happened. I'm impressed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good statement and the two Congressmen were happy to hear from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the Assembly is thriving. It was definitely on ofthe things that started."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.1951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had their own agenda and the Assembly was not part ofthat agenda: The Society of American Archivists got very much involved in that whole period also, and we were very happy to see the Assembly being represented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good moment. It was a good experience. I remember being worried at the tiine. I was in the same position being in line for the presidency and wondering if! would have to testify at some point and being relieved it never happened. I'm impressed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good statement and the two Congressmen were happy to hear from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the Assembly is thriving. It was definitely on ofthe things that started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well how many survivors ofthe Key Hole Inn are there now? I guess some folks have moved away?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good statement and the two Congressmen were happy to hear from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the Assembly is thriving. It was definitely on ofthe things that started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well how many survivors ofthe Key Hole Inn are there now? I guess some folks have moved away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Butler is in California and Clarence Lyons is in Georgia. Doug Helms and I are still going on Wednesday night. We have added some younger people. It will go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well anything else you would like to ...."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well how many survivors ofthe Key Hole Inn are there now? I guess some folks have moved away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Butler is in California and Clarence Lyons is in Georgia. Doug Helms and I are still going on Wednesday night. We have added some younger people. It will go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well anything else you would like to ...."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am trying to think ifthere is something that we haven't talked about or any comments in particular about the records you worked with."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Butler is in California and Clarence Lyons is in Georgia. Doug Helms and I are still going on Wednesday night. We have added some younger people. It will go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well anything else you would like to ...."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am trying to think ifthere is something that we haven't talked about or any comments in particular about the records you worked with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved them; I was absolutely fascinated by the Supreme Court and the Department of Justice records. When I took over Legislative, I had never worked in legislative archives. That was really fun to deal with. I enjoyed the arguments over freedom of information and those questions and issues. I did several papers on those questions, so that was always a fun part ofmy work that was right along with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you making appraisal decisions at points in your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am trying to think ifthere is something that we haven't talked about or any comments in particular about the records you worked with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved them; I was absolutely fascinated by the Supreme Court and the Department of Justice records. When I took over Legislative, I had never worked in legislative archives. That was really fun to deal with. I enjoyed the arguments over freedom of information and those questions and issues. I did several papers on those questions, so that was always a fun part ofmy work that was right along with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you making appraisal decisions at points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As division director in Reference and Legislative, I got to see appraisal decisions. I didn't object to very many ofthem. Trudy Peterson thought that I should get more involved, but I didn't. Appraisal was always very important. Given the FBI experience you always had that mind set in your head about what had to be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memories ofthe FBI project that is particularly memorable? Let me ask first, were you the one who drew up the list ofphrases, my treasured possession? [Yes]! have to say that's wonderful."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00011:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved them; I was absolutely fascinated by the Supreme Court and the Department of Justice records. When I took over Legislative, I had never worked in legislative archives. That was really fun to deal with. I enjoyed the arguments over freedom of information and those questions and issues. I did several papers on those questions, so that was always a fun part ofmy work that was right along with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you making appraisal decisions at points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As division director in Reference and Legislative, I got to see appraisal decisions. I didn't object to very many ofthem. Trudy Peterson thought that I should get more involved, but I didn't. Appraisal was always very important. Given the FBI experience you always had that mind set in your head about what had to be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memories ofthe FBI project that is particularly memorable? Let me ask first, were you the one who drew up the list ofphrases, my treasured possession? [Yes]! have to say that's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think.the camaraderie and the fun that we had, was just wonderful. We were dealing with very important questions under court order knowing that things were not going well for the Archives and.the FBI. We were fortunate to have the records manager at the FBI. His name was Bob Scherrer. If he hadn't been there, I don't think that project would have succeeded. He did a wonderful job. Jim O'Neill did a wonderful job ofsupervising fifteen very independent archivists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember our trip to Puerto Rico, and our trip going the wrong way down the one way street. We weren't arrested and that was good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 68.58854360486623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know whether I would say that that’s true. I think that they wanted me to participate in those negotiations because they needed lawyers with international relations expertise. That’s probably more it than the Russia background. Obviously the Russia background didn’t hurt, but there were other people at NASA who had much better Russia experience and expertise than I had. What they wanted was a good international lawyer. While they couldn’t find a good one, they did find me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you helped with that team that was negotiating those agreements for ISS. Did you work any on the negotiations for Shuttle-Mir [Program]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Shuttle-Mir was concluded just before I came to NASA. The agreements were concluded before I came to NASA. The program itself was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, during Shuttle-Mir we were also working on agreements for Russians to fly on the Shuttle. That continued. Did you have any involvement in any of that at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, but fairly limited. I was much more on the sidelines for Shuttle-Mir and the Russian cosmonauts on the Shuttle activities. Much more involved in the ISS IGA and MOUs [Memoranda of Understanding]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the IGA and the MOU and the work with that team. Were you their counsel as they were working through those negotiations? Talk about your role with them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 33.933216497877396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t. We don’t have appropriations for that kind of stuff anyway. Why is it that we would be paying so much money to other agencies for services not really rendered? It doesn’t make a lot of sense. The transfer of money itself between agencies costs money. If you can avoid it, avoid it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were talking about the Code of Conduct, it made me think of something. I don’t know if you had anything to do with it or not—you’d already moved out of that area. I think you’d moved into the position as Manager for International Technology Transfer Policy and Export Control by that time. But in 2001, again because of some of their financial difficulties, the Russians wanted to launch Dennis [A.] Tito [space tourist] to the ISS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. But there was a lot of pushback from NASA. How did that relate, or did it at all, to the Code of Conduct? Was that used as maybe one of the reasons? I know training had a lot to do with it. He wasn’t trained as an astronaut, but legally what were the concerns NASA had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First of all, I will say I was not an intimate participant in the Tito experience. I have an understanding of why there was some concern with the whole spaceflight participant idea, not just him in particular. Different way of doing business, all this other sort of stuff. But I’m probably not the best apologist for those reasons, so I really won’t speak to it.\\n\\n What I will say is that as a spaceflight participant he was subject to the International Space Station Code of Conduct and had to formalize his assent to that. That’s probably all I should say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Around 2000, that’s when you moved to that other position where you were actually the Manager for that area. Do you want to talk about that and why you took that position? Was that just a natural move for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.677913210000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huge, yes. I was responsible. Columbia was 2003 in February, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I don’t think I was the Director of the Office yet. There was a period of time where I was both the Export Control Administrator and the Director until I was able to hire somebody.\\n\\n When Columbia happened there of course were the investigation panels, and the [NASA] Administrator [Sean O’Keefe] was unambiguously clear that he did not want NASA to be seen as if it was shielding information from the public or from the accident investigation panels [Columbia Accident Investigation Board].\\n\\n There was an awful lot of Space Shuttle design and operations information for which I personally authorized the public release. I’m talking boxes of stuff, all of which I went through with my staff. I would not have done it but for the fact that, “We were going to be transparent, and we’re going to give them whatever it is they need, and we’re going to let the public have access to whatever it is the investigators need access to, in every possible instance that we can.” So we did.\\n\\n I don’t think that it had an impact to our national security. In fact I’m fairly certain that I’ve seen no evidence of that, but it was nonetheless a sensitive call to make. I was the one responsible. If it was the wrong call I certainly would not be here talking to you. It wasn’t my idea, but I was responsible. Obviously wasn’t my idea, because I wouldn’t have come up with it. But I was the one that made the determination to go ahead and let these things go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This you said was mainly the Shuttle design and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Operations, yes. Operations, and definitely there was some design information in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did these boxes of information come from that you went through?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.948041000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Operations, yes. Operations, and definitely there was some design information in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did these boxes of information come from that you went through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came from three places. I think they came from what’s now HEO, Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, which at the time was the Space Operations Mission Directorate. Came from the Shuttle Program Office. I think we got a bunch of stuff from JSC, too. KSC, JSC, and the programs up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By releasing that information, did you just release it for public consumption? Or was it something that if someone requested something then it was open and they could get it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the latter. I don’t think the stuff wound up online, but it was provided to the accident investigators, the review boards. I signed papers that cleared it for public release. Having done that, it’s important to make the distinction that you just made.\\n\\n Under the export control rules, something is in the public domain if it’s been authorized by the relevant government agency for public release. It does not require that it actually be published. All it needs in order to be in the public domain is that somebody has said that it can be. If that’s documented, and it is in the case of Columbia, then it is publicly available and the export control laws do not apply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.164490000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came from three places. I think they came from what’s now HEO, Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, which at the time was the Space Operations Mission Directorate. Came from the Shuttle Program Office. I think we got a bunch of stuff from JSC, too. KSC, JSC, and the programs up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By releasing that information, did you just release it for public consumption? Or was it something that if someone requested something then it was open and they could get it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the latter. I don’t think the stuff wound up online, but it was provided to the accident investigators, the review boards. I signed papers that cleared it for public release. Having done that, it’s important to make the distinction that you just made.\\n\\n Under the export control rules, something is in the public domain if it’s been authorized by the relevant government agency for public release. It does not require that it actually be published. All it needs in order to be in the public domain is that somebody has said that it can be. If that’s documented, and it is in the case of Columbia, then it is publicly available and the export control laws do not apply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you want to look it up it’s in Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 125.4(b)(13)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You still remember all these numbers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 13.516100000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the latter. I don’t think the stuff wound up online, but it was provided to the accident investigators, the review boards. I signed papers that cleared it for public release. Having done that, it’s important to make the distinction that you just made.\\n\\n Under the export control rules, something is in the public domain if it’s been authorized by the relevant government agency for public release. It does not require that it actually be published. All it needs in order to be in the public domain is that somebody has said that it can be. If that’s documented, and it is in the case of Columbia, then it is publicly available and the export control laws do not apply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you want to look it up it’s in Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 125.4(b)(13)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You still remember all these numbers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I pushed out useful knowledge to remember these things. I’m worried about what it is that I forgot that is somehow occupied by these citations now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do understand that, useless information that you can’t forget. Let’s talk about the announcement in 2004, after Columbia, for the Vision for Space Exploration when President [George W.] Bush announced that the Shuttle was going to close out but ISS would be built, and going back to Moon and Mars. Did that Vision have any effect on your area, too? Were there different things that you had to start working toward? I don’t know if you were Director at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00833:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1290000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you want to look it up it’s in Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 125.4(b)(13)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You still remember all these numbers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I pushed out useful knowledge to remember these things. I’m worried about what it is that I forgot that is somehow occupied by these citations now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do understand that, useless information that you can’t forget. Let’s talk about the announcement in 2004, after Columbia, for the Vision for Space Exploration when President [George W.] Bush announced that the Shuttle was going to close out but ISS would be built, and going back to Moon and Mars. Did that Vision have any effect on your area, too? Were there different things that you had to start working toward? I don’t know if you were Director at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was the Director of the Office. As the Director, I was the lead for NASA’s interagency relations with the rest of the government, including in policy stuff. Just to be clear, the Vision for Space Exploration was not your garden-variety National Space Policy exercise. This was something that did not involve the routine kind of staff-level negotiations and interactions with all of the affected agencies in the way that the President’s National Space Policy did; or the National Space Transportation Policy; or the Commercial Remote Sensing Policy; or the [Space-Based] Position, Navigation, and Timing Policy; or those other space-related policies which were much more of an interagency communal development effort led by the National Security Council and the Office of Science and Technology Policy at the White House.\\n\\n The Vision for Space Exploration was not that. People like me, I wouldn’t even consider myself a bit player in that. I was told what it will be and then that was it. It was my job to go out and work with the other agencies to make it happen. That is one policy that was different in its formulation from all the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00838:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 74.75580477056876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In high school I was the editor and sports editor of our newspaper, and we won some national award. One of the schools here in the state, if you were the editor and you had these awards, you could get a ride, a scholarship. So, I assumed my future was in journalism. My guidance counselor, though, saw my scores from my ACT [college admissions test] and said, “You need to go into engineering.” I had no idea what that meant because I had no role models.\\n\\n I wasn’t from here. I wasn’t fortunate like a lot of people from Huntsville, they lived and breathed engineering. I had no idea what it was. Honestly—and I’ve said this a bunch of times—I said, “I thought I was going to be driving a train.” I thought that’s what engineers did. But that’s what started me down that path going forward, and why I went into engineering. Not because I had any great passion, it’s just what the test scores said I should do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your father was an educator, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a professor at the University of Montevallo [Alabama], a little south of Birmingham down there. He taught math to start with and then became an educator of educators. I used to see my dad in my classrooms a lot because he was grading the student teachers that were there, so that was always an interesting dynamic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine. I heard that you described yourself as a “guinea pig” for him more than once, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he used to use me in his classes, and for Alabama Public Television. He had a 30-minute science show that he used to do, like a Mr. Wizard [Donald J. Herbert, children’s science television educator] kind of thing, and so I was on there a couple times as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was quite an experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00838:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 83.06200530063195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a professor at the University of Montevallo [Alabama], a little south of Birmingham down there. He taught math to start with and then became an educator of educators. I used to see my dad in my classrooms a lot because he was grading the student teachers that were there, so that was always an interesting dynamic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine. I heard that you described yourself as a “guinea pig” for him more than once, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he used to use me in his classes, and for Alabama Public Television. He had a 30-minute science show that he used to do, like a Mr. Wizard [Donald J. Herbert, children’s science television educator] kind of thing, and so I was on there a couple times as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was quite an experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just barely remember it. But I do remember him tricking me with the beakers - the short fat beaker and the tall skinny beaker and then the one in the middle. He’d say, “Which one had more water?” Of course they all had the same, which was unfair. He was just trying to show the students how people think. They think differently from whatever their background is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good lesson to carry on into your career I would imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00838:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 92.29111700070217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he used to use me in his classes, and for Alabama Public Television. He had a 30-minute science show that he used to do, like a Mr. Wizard [Donald J. Herbert, children’s science television educator] kind of thing, and so I was on there a couple times as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was quite an experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just barely remember it. But I do remember him tricking me with the beakers - the short fat beaker and the tall skinny beaker and then the one in the middle. He’d say, “Which one had more water?” Of course they all had the same, which was unfair. He was just trying to show the students how people think. They think differently from whatever their background is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good lesson to carry on into your career I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My dad is my hero. He gave me all sorts of lessons. More than I care to admit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your guidance counselor, because of your ACT scores, said, “You need to become an engineer,” what did you do? Where did you apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00838:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 98.1012411118913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just barely remember it. But I do remember him tricking me with the beakers - the short fat beaker and the tall skinny beaker and then the one in the middle. He’d say, “Which one had more water?” Of course they all had the same, which was unfair. He was just trying to show the students how people think. They think differently from whatever their background is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good lesson to carry on into your career I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My dad is my hero. He gave me all sorts of lessons. More than I care to admit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your guidance counselor, because of your ACT scores, said, “You need to become an engineer,” what did you do? Where did you apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to University of Alabama [Tuscaloosa]. I probably didn’t have much choice there. In the state of Alabama you pretty much decided at birth whether you were going to be Alabama or Auburn [University, Alabama]. Most of my family was Alabama, so I went there, for no other reason than that’s where I knew I was pretty much going to go, since maybe like one year old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started taking those classes that would lead you into an engineering field, what was it like for you? Since you thought at first you’d be driving a train."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.899140092880824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Kyrgyzstan, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Kyrgyzstan. So let's go back to the very beginning. Let's talk about who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where, where were you born? Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Texas and Oklahoma, about ten years in Texas and seven years in Oklahoma. And my family is still back there. So I go back to Oklahoma several times a year. And I went to school, uh, for two years at Grinnell College. So that's Midwest, Midwest, and Midwest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then during the Vietnam War protest years, I felt like nothing was happening in Iowa. So I transferred to Madison, where things were happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your undergraduate years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.665711214312026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Texas and Oklahoma, about ten years in Texas and seven years in Oklahoma. And my family is still back there. So I go back to Oklahoma several times a year. And I went to school, uh, for two years at Grinnell College. So that's Midwest, Midwest, and Midwest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then during the Vietnam War protest years, I felt like nothing was happening in Iowa. So I transferred to Madison, where things were happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your undergraduate years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my undergraduate years. And then I've been in Wisconsin ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ever since then. Wonderful. And you're not a kid fresh out of college now. You're in your, you don't have to say how old you are, but you're somewhere I would guess in your fifties."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.463841005323488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my undergraduate years. And then I've been in Wisconsin ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ever since then. Wonderful. And you're not a kid fresh out of college now. You're in your, you don't have to say how old you are, but you're somewhere I would guess in your fifties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you're, you're, you're generous. A little older than that. But yeah, when I got to Peace Corps, when I got to Lesotho, they, they. Everyone always introduced me, the younger volunteers introduced me, \"And this is the oldest volunteer in our country.\" I thought of myself, especially at that time as very young, and I thought of the 20 somethings as my peers so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, you know, in that country, to be that old, to be, you know, more than 45 years old for a woman was significant. So I did accept the label nkhono, or grandmother, with more grace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. Let's go way back. Let's talk about your childhood. You, you were in Texas. You were in Oklahoma. Where did you go to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.848712228137211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you're, you're, you're generous. A little older than that. But yeah, when I got to Peace Corps, when I got to Lesotho, they, they. Everyone always introduced me, the younger volunteers introduced me, \"And this is the oldest volunteer in our country.\" I thought of myself, especially at that time as very young, and I thought of the 20 somethings as my peers so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, you know, in that country, to be that old, to be, you know, more than 45 years old for a woman was significant. So I did accept the label nkhono, or grandmother, with more grace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. Let's go way back. Let's talk about your childhood. You, you were in Texas. You were in Oklahoma. Where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a high school that was the only high school in our town. The town was Bartlesville, Oklahoma, and it was divided up between people who worked for Phillips Petroleum Company, Phillips 66, because it had its world headquarters there, and people whose dads didn't work for Phillips 66. So it was kind of a company town. And, um. And yeah, the one high school. It had a small number of students who were African Americans and none of whom were my friends. It was a very racist time that I look back on it. It was Bible Belt and virulently anti- Kennedy. Kennedy was president for some of those years and, um, and the high school didn't lower the flag on the day he was assassinated. So that kind of that kind of feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.276346920152456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, you know, in that country, to be that old, to be, you know, more than 45 years old for a woman was significant. So I did accept the label nkhono, or grandmother, with more grace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. Let's go way back. Let's talk about your childhood. You, you were in Texas. You were in Oklahoma. Where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a high school that was the only high school in our town. The town was Bartlesville, Oklahoma, and it was divided up between people who worked for Phillips Petroleum Company, Phillips 66, because it had its world headquarters there, and people whose dads didn't work for Phillips 66. So it was kind of a company town. And, um. And yeah, the one high school. It had a small number of students who were African Americans and none of whom were my friends. It was a very racist time that I look back on it. It was Bible Belt and virulently anti- Kennedy. Kennedy was president for some of those years and, um, and the high school didn't lower the flag on the day he was assassinated. So that kind of that kind of feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can, you can pick up the same the same feeling in the same town about Obama now. It's just one of those conservative pockets. So my father was adamant that all of his kids go out of state to, uh, to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's hear about your father. Did he work for, was he one of the Phillips 66 employees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.862607689058285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a high school that was the only high school in our town. The town was Bartlesville, Oklahoma, and it was divided up between people who worked for Phillips Petroleum Company, Phillips 66, because it had its world headquarters there, and people whose dads didn't work for Phillips 66. So it was kind of a company town. And, um. And yeah, the one high school. It had a small number of students who were African Americans and none of whom were my friends. It was a very racist time that I look back on it. It was Bible Belt and virulently anti- Kennedy. Kennedy was president for some of those years and, um, and the high school didn't lower the flag on the day he was assassinated. So that kind of that kind of feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can, you can pick up the same the same feeling in the same town about Obama now. It's just one of those conservative pockets. So my father was adamant that all of his kids go out of state to, uh, to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's hear about your father. Did he work for, was he one of the Phillips 66 employees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a chemist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a chemist for the oil company."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.625119654509206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can, you can pick up the same the same feeling in the same town about Obama now. It's just one of those conservative pockets. So my father was adamant that all of his kids go out of state to, uh, to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's hear about your father. Did he work for, was he one of the Phillips 66 employees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a chemist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a chemist for the oil company."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my mother was a stay at home mom most of the time. But she'd been college educated as a occupational therapist and she did like go back to school and get her LPN certification and would work part time in nursing, or she would bake lemon meringue pies for the local restaurant. She found ways, I don't think it was so much for income because we were middle, middle class, but I think it was, you know, just to keep herself intellectually stimulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, to contribute in some way, even if it's making lemon meringue pie."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.583466282788006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a chemist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a chemist for the oil company."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my mother was a stay at home mom most of the time. But she'd been college educated as a occupational therapist and she did like go back to school and get her LPN certification and would work part time in nursing, or she would bake lemon meringue pies for the local restaurant. She found ways, I don't think it was so much for income because we were middle, middle class, but I think it was, you know, just to keep herself intellectually stimulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, to contribute in some way, even if it's making lemon meringue pie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get out of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so you referred to siblings you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.42607364754223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my mother was a stay at home mom most of the time. But she'd been college educated as a occupational therapist and she did like go back to school and get her LPN certification and would work part time in nursing, or she would bake lemon meringue pies for the local restaurant. She found ways, I don't think it was so much for income because we were middle, middle class, but I think it was, you know, just to keep herself intellectually stimulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, to contribute in some way, even if it's making lemon meringue pie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get out of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so you referred to siblings you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of five and three were from my first mother. She died when I was four. And then my father remarried a year and a half later and had the two youngest kids. And we were all brought up, as you know, five siblings of equal, equal standing. Although I think the younger two were raised a little bit differently than the, than the older three of us, because they saw how we had become sort of war protesters and marching to the different drummers and didn't seem too concerned about, you know, going into a straight and narrow path. So my younger sister and brother did become respectively a dentist and a doctor. And, you know, I think were more pressured to conform. That might be it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were five kids and so that's a family of seven people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.473415163935808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get out of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so you referred to siblings you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of five and three were from my first mother. She died when I was four. And then my father remarried a year and a half later and had the two youngest kids. And we were all brought up, as you know, five siblings of equal, equal standing. Although I think the younger two were raised a little bit differently than the, than the older three of us, because they saw how we had become sort of war protesters and marching to the different drummers and didn't seem too concerned about, you know, going into a straight and narrow path. So my younger sister and brother did become respectively a dentist and a doctor. And, you know, I think were more pressured to conform. That might be it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were five kids and so that's a family of seven people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all fit into one car? Did you go places, did you take trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.19268351548423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of five and three were from my first mother. She died when I was four. And then my father remarried a year and a half later and had the two youngest kids. And we were all brought up, as you know, five siblings of equal, equal standing. Although I think the younger two were raised a little bit differently than the, than the older three of us, because they saw how we had become sort of war protesters and marching to the different drummers and didn't seem too concerned about, you know, going into a straight and narrow path. So my younger sister and brother did become respectively a dentist and a doctor. And, you know, I think were more pressured to conform. That might be it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were five kids and so that's a family of seven people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all fit into one car? Did you go places, did you take trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. And we took family vacations. We'd all fit into one car, but we didn't start camping until I was 14 years old. And then we did a couple of camping vacations. I remember really, really loving that. Before that, it was like some families travel to see some relatives and you stayed in a motel and it was just, you know, you couldn't afford it. So, you know, you would drive as far as you could to get to Nevada, you know, in one day and do one motel and everyone's sleeping in the same room and things like that. I don't really remember enjoying those so much, although we saw the Grand Canyon. And Mesa Verde. Yeah. A few, a few things in the West."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But not, you wouldn't have traveled internationally as a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.769648350538032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all fit into one car? Did you go places, did you take trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. And we took family vacations. We'd all fit into one car, but we didn't start camping until I was 14 years old. And then we did a couple of camping vacations. I remember really, really loving that. Before that, it was like some families travel to see some relatives and you stayed in a motel and it was just, you know, you couldn't afford it. So, you know, you would drive as far as you could to get to Nevada, you know, in one day and do one motel and everyone's sleeping in the same room and things like that. I don't really remember enjoying those so much, although we saw the Grand Canyon. And Mesa Verde. Yeah. A few, a few things in the West."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But not, you wouldn't have traveled internationally as a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I did my first international trip to Mexico when I was 21 to go down and see Ivan Illich was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, in Cuernavaca."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.410720389486702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. And we took family vacations. We'd all fit into one car, but we didn't start camping until I was 14 years old. And then we did a couple of camping vacations. I remember really, really loving that. Before that, it was like some families travel to see some relatives and you stayed in a motel and it was just, you know, you couldn't afford it. So, you know, you would drive as far as you could to get to Nevada, you know, in one day and do one motel and everyone's sleeping in the same room and things like that. I don't really remember enjoying those so much, although we saw the Grand Canyon. And Mesa Verde. Yeah. A few, a few things in the West."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But not, you wouldn't have traveled internationally as a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I did my first international trip to Mexico when I was 21 to go down and see Ivan Illich was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, in Cuernavaca."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did that for three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. But that was up the road a piece."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.234133766096335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I did my first international trip to Mexico when I was 21 to go down and see Ivan Illich was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, in Cuernavaca."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did that for three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. But that was up the road a piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In, in high school, did you study languages? Did you study Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.593481962329259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did that for three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. But that was up the road a piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In, in high school, did you study languages? Did you study Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied French for two years and I studied Latin for two years later, when I worked for the Department of Public Instruction. Every single person in our division of curriculum had studied Latin, and I realized we were kind of a, that put us in. Maybe the word wasn't invented yet, but kind of made us nerds. But the Latin teacher was an excellent teacher, and I've always been thankful I've had Latin. French. I was very creative in French in the conversations like, how much can you talk without learning any new words, which I used all the way through Peace Corps, too. You know, how far can you travel on your limited vocabulary? And I pursued French a couple of years in college, but I didn't enjoy it. It was always a focus on the literary. Reading Camu and, you know, living out of your dictionary.\n\nAnd yeah, I thought that language would be completely irrelevant to my life. As an undergraduate, I took a year of advanced calculus, which was the only way I could get out of one credit of French that I needed. So instead of one credit of French, I took ten credits of calculus, and I don't like math. It was just, I was adamant that I didn't want to take more French. And then, of course, in my later life, having seen what a ridiculous decision that was, I've gone back twice to study French. You know, at the same university, at much greater cost. And effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are not the beings that we were when we were 21 or 19."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.10386884703251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In, in high school, did you study languages? Did you study Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied French for two years and I studied Latin for two years later, when I worked for the Department of Public Instruction. Every single person in our division of curriculum had studied Latin, and I realized we were kind of a, that put us in. Maybe the word wasn't invented yet, but kind of made us nerds. But the Latin teacher was an excellent teacher, and I've always been thankful I've had Latin. French. I was very creative in French in the conversations like, how much can you talk without learning any new words, which I used all the way through Peace Corps, too. You know, how far can you travel on your limited vocabulary? And I pursued French a couple of years in college, but I didn't enjoy it. It was always a focus on the literary. Reading Camu and, you know, living out of your dictionary.\n\nAnd yeah, I thought that language would be completely irrelevant to my life. As an undergraduate, I took a year of advanced calculus, which was the only way I could get out of one credit of French that I needed. So instead of one credit of French, I took ten credits of calculus, and I don't like math. It was just, I was adamant that I didn't want to take more French. And then, of course, in my later life, having seen what a ridiculous decision that was, I've gone back twice to study French. You know, at the same university, at much greater cost. And effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are not the beings that we were when we were 21 or 19."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we don't have the wisdom. You know, I made so many foolish decisions like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you, when you went to college, where, where did you go did you say? You went to Grinnell?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.41218376176853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we don't have the wisdom. You know, I made so many foolish decisions like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you, when you went to college, where, where did you go did you say? You went to Grinnell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grinnell is in Grinnell, Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a little one of those little ivy covered, cornfields. Yeah, but I didn't thrive. It was a small, was a small school, and just things didn't connect. Now I see they even have a program where they send students to Lesotho. I don't think they did then but. And I didn't want to do a year abroad. I went, when I transferred to the university then, I thrived somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you transferred to the University of Wisconsin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.274300940454978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a little one of those little ivy covered, cornfields. Yeah, but I didn't thrive. It was a small, was a small school, and just things didn't connect. Now I see they even have a program where they send students to Lesotho. I don't think they did then but. And I didn't want to do a year abroad. I went, when I transferred to the university then, I thrived somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you transferred to the University of Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wisconsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Madison, here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. And I was in my, ready for my junior year. And I think my experience at Grinnell taught me that professors are people and they enjoy interacting with students. So when I had these lecture classes of 300, I would pay attention to when the professor had office hours and I would actually go to them. And the professor was always surprised to see an undergraduate and I would invite them home to dinner and they would always come. And yeah, I kind of knew how to use the system and I knew how to talk my way out of prerequisites, prerequisites. And, you know, I made a beeline for all the interesting courses. And by the time I was a senior, my second year, I was already a teaching assistant because I'd really impressed a couple of professors so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your major was education?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.79543325982096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. And I was in my, ready for my junior year. And I think my experience at Grinnell taught me that professors are people and they enjoy interacting with students. So when I had these lecture classes of 300, I would pay attention to when the professor had office hours and I would actually go to them. And the professor was always surprised to see an undergraduate and I would invite them home to dinner and they would always come. And yeah, I kind of knew how to use the system and I knew how to talk my way out of prerequisites, prerequisites. And, you know, I made a beeline for all the interesting courses. And by the time I was a senior, my second year, I was already a teaching assistant because I'd really impressed a couple of professors so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your major was education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was psychology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Psychology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were a teaching assistant in the psychology?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 26.439370288689954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was psychology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Psychology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were a teaching assistant in the psychology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a teaching assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay, I was thinking practice teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.488189209655502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were a teaching assistant in the psychology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a teaching assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay, I was thinking practice teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, I was a teaching assistant in a course for, an introductory course for behavioral disabilities because I spent two summers in college working for an NSF National Science Foundation summer program for high school students. I was a counselor there, and one of my Grinnell contacts had gotten me the job. And so I learned a lot about behavioral psychology. And when I, and I worked with some, um. It was called the Custer Center for the Retarded. Since then, it's changed its name for Custer Center for People with Behavioral Disabilities or something like that, in western Michigan, associated with Western Michigan University.\n\nSo anyway, I had those two summers, so I knew something and I talked to professors and they needed a TA and so there I was. I was a senior, but I was already a TA with a, a class of 300 undergraduates. And, you know, we followed a text. It wasn't, it wasn't anything too creative, but it was a good, it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So you get a bachelor's degree in psychology in UW Madison."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.764654677395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a teaching assistant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay, I was thinking practice teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, I was a teaching assistant in a course for, an introductory course for behavioral disabilities because I spent two summers in college working for an NSF National Science Foundation summer program for high school students. I was a counselor there, and one of my Grinnell contacts had gotten me the job. And so I learned a lot about behavioral psychology. And when I, and I worked with some, um. It was called the Custer Center for the Retarded. Since then, it's changed its name for Custer Center for People with Behavioral Disabilities or something like that, in western Michigan, associated with Western Michigan University.\n\nSo anyway, I had those two summers, so I knew something and I talked to professors and they needed a TA and so there I was. I was a senior, but I was already a TA with a, a class of 300 undergraduates. And, you know, we followed a text. It wasn't, it wasn't anything too creative, but it was a good, it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So you get a bachelor's degree in psychology in UW Madison."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go on to graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.18294964155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, I was a teaching assistant in a course for, an introductory course for behavioral disabilities because I spent two summers in college working for an NSF National Science Foundation summer program for high school students. I was a counselor there, and one of my Grinnell contacts had gotten me the job. And so I learned a lot about behavioral psychology. And when I, and I worked with some, um. It was called the Custer Center for the Retarded. Since then, it's changed its name for Custer Center for People with Behavioral Disabilities or something like that, in western Michigan, associated with Western Michigan University.\n\nSo anyway, I had those two summers, so I knew something and I talked to professors and they needed a TA and so there I was. I was a senior, but I was already a TA with a, a class of 300 undergraduates. And, you know, we followed a text. It wasn't, it wasn't anything too creative, but it was a good, it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So you get a bachelor's degree in psychology in UW Madison."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go on to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went right on to graduate school in educational policy studies. But then that trip to Mexico, I dropped out of graduate student school because somehow. You know, when you really read and believe Paulo Freire and Ivan Illich and at that time there were free schools. And, you know, you're questioning all the philosophy and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is 1970, early seventies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.203277379499998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go on to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went right on to graduate school in educational policy studies. But then that trip to Mexico, I dropped out of graduate student school because somehow. You know, when you really read and believe Paulo Freire and Ivan Illich and at that time there were free schools. And, you know, you're questioning all the philosophy and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is 1970, early seventies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was 19, probably from '68 through '70. My graduate program started, it was a Ford Foundation funded program for urban education to give people, especially half of our graduate students were African American, and to give people from urban backgrounds, which I wasn't, an early PhD. So it was kind of rush you through your, through your PhD program and get these people with innovative approaches to education out into the schools, especially the urban schools. And, um, so anyway, following that, but then I kind of tracked off to, um, to Mexico. And then to, there was kind of a back to the land movement after the bombing of the Sterling, uh, Sterling Hall and where a lot of activists and people who had been pro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you could explain to whoever's listening to this that Sterling Hall was a building here on campus at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. This was during, during the Vietnam War. It was a protest action gone wrong."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.707749851234567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was 19, probably from '68 through '70. My graduate program started, it was a Ford Foundation funded program for urban education to give people, especially half of our graduate students were African American, and to give people from urban backgrounds, which I wasn't, an early PhD. So it was kind of rush you through your, through your PhD program and get these people with innovative approaches to education out into the schools, especially the urban schools. And, um, so anyway, following that, but then I kind of tracked off to, um, to Mexico. And then to, there was kind of a back to the land movement after the bombing of the Sterling, uh, Sterling Hall and where a lot of activists and people who had been pro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you could explain to whoever's listening to this that Sterling Hall was a building here on campus at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. This was during, during the Vietnam War. It was a protest action gone wrong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah. Yeah, it was. And it was a very important event for affecting people like me who had been protesting and calling the police pigs and throwing things and, you know, really angry about the Vietnam War and all of the boys and all of our boyfriends were considering whether they should go to jail or go to Canada. They were, it was, the war was very present in our lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then when this building on my university campus was bombed by some activists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And someone died."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.60216031016613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then when this building on my university campus was bombed by some activists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And someone died."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And someone died. Then suddenly everyone, me and my friends thought, you know, we're against the war, but we don't want to become killers ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it made us look, look at the whole protest movement. There were a lot of articles written and self analysis, and that's where the back to the land movement was born. You know, we should really get ourselves together before we go around, uh, you know, espousing to the rest of the world how they should live. And that was, you know, out of that, the Vietnam movement, the red power, Black power, women's power. There was a lot of impetus for another things where, you know, you're calling into question the hypocrisy of American domestic and foreign policy. And as, as part of that, I moved out to, uh, out to Ridgeway, Wisconsin, and lived with my boyfriend Eddie at the time, who became and still is a wonderful furniture maker. And, um, yeah. I went back to graduate school several times at kind of ten year intervals, but I never finished my degree. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then that was followed by a period of a couple of decades when you were very busy in your adult life way before you decided to join the Peace Corps. And this interview focuses on Peace Corps. But tell us just very briefly, what are some of the things that you did between that time when you were doing back to the land living and joining the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.937144200832382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I wrote the essay in '63. I think I was in ninth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, yeah. And I liked the idea of international travel and I did have a little mimeographed sheet that would come to me. It was very hard to get jobs in, uh. I had an education, I had an education degree as part of my undergraduate, and I remember there were 600 applicants for every teacher. There was a big glut of teachers and engineers. But I did get this little mimeographed thing that did have an opening. It was interesting, and I've always wondered if I could find the person who got this. It said Peace Corps Iran. Become a videographer of folk dances and folk traditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the year would have been like '71 or '72. And I think someone got that. And I think I did at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had applied for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.934745926953557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the year would have been like '71 or '72. And I think someone got that. And I think I did at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had applied for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I at least applied or submitted an inquiry, but I think I was either turned down for that, turned down for two other volunteer jobs that year. And I was thinking like, I can't even get a volunteer job. Of course, I didn't know what I know now about how hard you have to work and how persistent you have to be to get a job. But someone dropped me off at Folklore Village in Dodgeville, just up the road from me, and I worked there off and on for ten years for almost nothing. And I learned everything. I became kind of the assistant director or the assistant to my mentor, Jane Farwell, who I learned how to teach dancing and I learned how to work with live music and I learned how to instantly make a group of people feel comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned how to work with people, give them projects where they could be creative. And I cleaned the bunkhouses and the outhouses and swept floors and did dishes and gardened. And, you know, it was one of those very holistic experiences that is really kind of made me, even in Lesotho, when I was in the Peace Corps, everywhere I am, it makes me look for either the Folklore Village like community. Or else that makes me think that what this place really needs is a place where people can come of all ages, do something recreational on a Saturday night, be inexpensive, be a potluck, um, and do projects that use the foods and the flowers of the seasons. And, um, yeah, all of the things that Folklore Village was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And is, isn't it still?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.816384363281728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I at least applied or submitted an inquiry, but I think I was either turned down for that, turned down for two other volunteer jobs that year. And I was thinking like, I can't even get a volunteer job. Of course, I didn't know what I know now about how hard you have to work and how persistent you have to be to get a job. But someone dropped me off at Folklore Village in Dodgeville, just up the road from me, and I worked there off and on for ten years for almost nothing. And I learned everything. I became kind of the assistant director or the assistant to my mentor, Jane Farwell, who I learned how to teach dancing and I learned how to work with live music and I learned how to instantly make a group of people feel comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned how to work with people, give them projects where they could be creative. And I cleaned the bunkhouses and the outhouses and swept floors and did dishes and gardened. And, you know, it was one of those very holistic experiences that is really kind of made me, even in Lesotho, when I was in the Peace Corps, everywhere I am, it makes me look for either the Folklore Village like community. Or else that makes me think that what this place really needs is a place where people can come of all ages, do something recreational on a Saturday night, be inexpensive, be a potluck, um, and do projects that use the foods and the flowers of the seasons. And, um, yeah, all of the things that Folklore Village was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And is, isn't it still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And is, yeah. And today, this many years later, even though I hadn't been there for about 20 years at all, I volunteered to be the, to head up their fundraising committee so they've got me by the toe and, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and you did other things too, before you went into Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.351538181424141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned how to work with people, give them projects where they could be creative. And I cleaned the bunkhouses and the outhouses and swept floors and did dishes and gardened. And, you know, it was one of those very holistic experiences that is really kind of made me, even in Lesotho, when I was in the Peace Corps, everywhere I am, it makes me look for either the Folklore Village like community. Or else that makes me think that what this place really needs is a place where people can come of all ages, do something recreational on a Saturday night, be inexpensive, be a potluck, um, and do projects that use the foods and the flowers of the seasons. And, um, yeah, all of the things that Folklore Village was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And is, isn't it still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And is, yeah. And today, this many years later, even though I hadn't been there for about 20 years at all, I volunteered to be the, to head up their fundraising committee so they've got me by the toe and, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and you did other things too, before you went into Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I, uh, I, I was a weaver when I was, weaver and crocheted hats when I was out in the country with my furniture, uh, furniture man. And then I, uh. Let's see. Crafts. Then as as a weaver I listened to Wisconsin Public Radio, uh, hours a day. And so one day I just marched in there and told the station manager that I wanted to work there. And he actually found a job for me in fundraising. And because I had fundraising experience at Folklore Village. And so I loved that. I transitioned and did some radio production. I still listen to Wisconsin Public Radio hours and hours every day. And what else did I do? Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Japan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.612820201582378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And is, yeah. And today, this many years later, even though I hadn't been there for about 20 years at all, I volunteered to be the, to head up their fundraising committee so they've got me by the toe and, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and you did other things too, before you went into Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I, uh, I, I was a weaver when I was, weaver and crocheted hats when I was out in the country with my furniture, uh, furniture man. And then I, uh. Let's see. Crafts. Then as as a weaver I listened to Wisconsin Public Radio, uh, hours a day. And so one day I just marched in there and told the station manager that I wanted to work there. And he actually found a job for me in fundraising. And because I had fundraising experience at Folklore Village. And so I loved that. I transitioned and did some radio production. I still listen to Wisconsin Public Radio hours and hours every day. And what else did I do? Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Japan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught English in Japan for three years. I studied Japanese at the university, it was the second language I. I had studied French, then Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you say you studied Japanese at the university, you mean here in Madison, Wisconsin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.571382964916516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught English in Japan for three years. I studied Japanese at the university, it was the second language I. I had studied French, then Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you say you studied Japanese at the university, you mean here in Madison, Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went to Japan."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.347386376440141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went to Japan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year. And then I applied for a Fulbright to finish my PhD. But it's hilarious to think now, you know, the quality of people who are Fulbrighters. Anyway, it wasn't, one year wasn't enough for them to give them confidence that I'd be able to finish my PhD in, uh, in Japanese. I had already been to Sweden. I had a fellowship in 1977-'78 for the American Scandinavian Foundation and spent a year in Sweden studying music and dance with my then, uh, then husband. Not the furniture maker, the book writer. The author. Yeah, that was another wonderful year. But it gave me the idea that you could pick up a language very quickly, because Swedish, Swedish is so similar to English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I thought I could, you know, spend a year in Japan and learn to speak Japanese as well as I'd learned to speak Swedish in Sweden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did that happen? Did you, were you able to converse in Japanese?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.070847378321162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I thought I could, you know, spend a year in Japan and learn to speak Japanese as well as I'd learned to speak Swedish in Sweden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did that happen? Did you, were you able to converse in Japanese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to kind of an intermediate level of more an informal street Japanese. Like later in my job when I worked at the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction for 16 years, I would meet many high- ranking superintendents and governors from Japan. And there's a kind of keigo, which is formal Japanese that you speak with people who are, who are your, you speak in the honorific form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so even though I was quite conversational in the casual, you know, to talk with a housewife. And even though I'd been in Japan three years, I never dared use my Japanese in these formal situations because I knew enough to know that, you knew enough to know how little I knew, you know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't insult somebody by, um, demoting them in your way of speaking."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.198577010273038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so even though I was quite conversational in the casual, you know, to talk with a housewife. And even though I'd been in Japan three years, I never dared use my Japanese in these formal situations because I knew enough to know that, you knew enough to know how little I knew, you know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't insult somebody by, um, demoting them in your way of speaking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not just them, but, you know, to insult the entire, um, entire event, you know, like, like just the wrong person as emcee, that sometimes you go to those kind of events. Yeah. But one time I did have an event and I had, I had, I think I had four translators and someone came up to me and I think it was a Japanese person who was on staff at the university and said, I've never been to a university event or I've never been to an event where the translator, the need for translation was adequately addressed. You know, like usually you have one overworked translator, but I had, you know, this person is important, they will have a translator. This person is important and they will have a translator. And when we switch languages, then those people will have, you know, English to Japanese versus Japanese to English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, so that kind of thing you learn when you, when you get into a society with language demands like Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned so much in your life before you went to Peace Corps. And there's more."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.442863344747819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not just them, but, you know, to insult the entire, um, entire event, you know, like, like just the wrong person as emcee, that sometimes you go to those kind of events. Yeah. But one time I did have an event and I had, I had, I think I had four translators and someone came up to me and I think it was a Japanese person who was on staff at the university and said, I've never been to a university event or I've never been to an event where the translator, the need for translation was adequately addressed. You know, like usually you have one overworked translator, but I had, you know, this person is important, they will have a translator. This person is important and they will have a translator. And when we switch languages, then those people will have, you know, English to Japanese versus Japanese to English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, so that kind of thing you learn when you, when you get into a society with language demands like Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned so much in your life before you went to Peace Corps. And there's more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talk about having worked for the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction for 16 years, and that's when I first met you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.825403716386464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, so that kind of thing you learn when you, when you get into a society with language demands like Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned so much in your life before you went to Peace Corps. And there's more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talk about having worked for the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction for 16 years, and that's when I first met you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "International education consultant. Was that what it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.045730401442558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just had nonstop, nonstop delegations coming and the path was totally clear for me to create things. So I saw all kinds of things I could create. I could create an association of educators. I could create an association of Japanese teachers. I could present all around. You know, I could collaborate with these teachers who, who were coming. I could study education systems from different countries. And sometimes during those 16 years, I would just take off on my own. I went to West Africa because I was aware that I was the international education consultant, but I'd never been to a single African country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I heard that schools in Finland were really good. So I went to Finland to look at schools. Some of those things I just did, did on my own. Yeah, I did, did a lot of things. And we put out a teacher's guide to international curriculum, which now there are many, but at that time it was the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now several states, not many states, have a person in that position. But I was the first. And so I got some national attention because a lot of people thought that, oh, look what Wisconsin is doing. We should be doing that. So got invited here and there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were the perfect person to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.606367112713952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I heard that schools in Finland were really good. So I went to Finland to look at schools. Some of those things I just did, did on my own. Yeah, I did, did a lot of things. And we put out a teacher's guide to international curriculum, which now there are many, but at that time it was the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now several states, not many states, have a person in that position. But I was the first. And so I got some national attention because a lot of people thought that, oh, look what Wisconsin is doing. We should be doing that. So got invited here and there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were the perfect person to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was outgoing. And I was interested in every country and all of the, all of the things. So, yeah, I did, I did enjoy that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the dream. It was the job from heaven. It was the perfect job. And yet you left it to apply to the Peace Corps. How, what. What was going on there? How did you decide to, um, leave this very interesting job in Madison, Wisconsin, and throw your hat in the ring for the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.395327800155719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Japan and in Sweden and in Germany and in France, you know, even China. He said, what's not here is any kind of experience in a more third world country that shows that you can tough it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, well, how do I get that? And he said, well, you know, there's a number of volunteer projects, or you could do something like the Peace Corps, and you know, he might have said other things but I stopped listening. I went back, I applied for the Peace Corps. I didn't tell anyone at work. And it was the typical experience of the older volunteer having to go through all these, jump through all of these medical hoops, even though I was perfectly healthy. But it took a whole year, the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it came through, I think in, uh, September. And I sent out an email to my colleagues in the Department of Public Instruction, and there was just a collective gasp. Because I was young for retirement, 59. In fact, I had no intentions of retiring. I thought it was 45 or 26 or something. In fact, when I went to check out with Human Resources, they handed me all these things and they said, you know, your pension will start coming now. And I went, what pension? And I, I thought, I'm so grateful for those people because I would have left that place without anything. I just sort of thought, well, this was the end of this job and now I'm going to go get this other job. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied to the Peace Corps, was there a question on the application about what part of the world you would most like to serve in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.21703088906191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, well, how do I get that? And he said, well, you know, there's a number of volunteer projects, or you could do something like the Peace Corps, and you know, he might have said other things but I stopped listening. I went back, I applied for the Peace Corps. I didn't tell anyone at work. And it was the typical experience of the older volunteer having to go through all these, jump through all of these medical hoops, even though I was perfectly healthy. But it took a whole year, the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it came through, I think in, uh, September. And I sent out an email to my colleagues in the Department of Public Instruction, and there was just a collective gasp. Because I was young for retirement, 59. In fact, I had no intentions of retiring. I thought it was 45 or 26 or something. In fact, when I went to check out with Human Resources, they handed me all these things and they said, you know, your pension will start coming now. And I went, what pension? And I, I thought, I'm so grateful for those people because I would have left that place without anything. I just sort of thought, well, this was the end of this job and now I'm going to go get this other job. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied to the Peace Corps, was there a question on the application about what part of the world you would most like to serve in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or was there another question saying, is there a part of the world that you would not want to go to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.130034321179899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it came through, I think in, uh, September. And I sent out an email to my colleagues in the Department of Public Instruction, and there was just a collective gasp. Because I was young for retirement, 59. In fact, I had no intentions of retiring. I thought it was 45 or 26 or something. In fact, when I went to check out with Human Resources, they handed me all these things and they said, you know, your pension will start coming now. And I went, what pension? And I, I thought, I'm so grateful for those people because I would have left that place without anything. I just sort of thought, well, this was the end of this job and now I'm going to go get this other job. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied to the Peace Corps, was there a question on the application about what part of the world you would most like to serve in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or was there another question saying, is there a part of the world that you would not want to go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was the one about where did I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.811149245755444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or was there another question saying, is there a part of the world that you would not want to go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was the one about where did I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, actually there were three choices. And I said West Africa, because in that year that I hadn't told anyone that I had applied, I took French the third time, you know, kind of like I left work every day or I came in late every day at 10:00. I'd already had my French class and then I would work until 6:00 or 7:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there are many West African countries in which French is the lingua franca."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.8285793157474615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, actually there were three choices. And I said West Africa, because in that year that I hadn't told anyone that I had applied, I took French the third time, you know, kind of like I left work every day or I came in late every day at 10:00. I'd already had my French class and then I would work until 6:00 or 7:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there are many West African countries in which French is the lingua franca."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So I said, I said, uh, West Africa, Central Africa, or anywhere Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And somewhere in that year I got a call from them and they said, you know, with all of your education experience, we have the perfect job for you. We're going to put you in a teaching situation and you're going to train teachers to teach English as a big country and a lot of, a lot of teachers. And I said, will I be speaking French? And they laughed and said, no, you won't be speaking French. And I said, well, what language will I be speaking? And they said, well, there's two languages in this country. And to tell you one would give away the country, but the other one would be Russian. And I just kind of snapped. You know, I mean, I was just kind of like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That doesn't sound like Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.140712367280468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I said, I said, you mean this is not Africa? And they said, no, this is not Africa. But the position is perfect for you, you know, and the plane is leaving in two months or something like that. And I said, I don't want it. And they said, they said, why not? And I said, because I want to go to Africa or something like that. And they said, like, you mean you really want to go to Africa? Now I know how Peace Corps works. So, I mean, it was moving from this guy's desk and he had his stack all ready to go and he had to give it over to this other guy's stack in a completely different world part. And then the plane wasn't leaving for a lot, you know, I had a longer wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was going to have, was going to have Africa. You know, they try to talk you out of it but yeah. Yeah, I wanted Africa. So then when I actually got Lesotho, I was disappointed. It was an English speaking country. English was the second language. And I really wanted to, you know, like master work in another language. I did not do that. I worked primarily in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you get the letter of acceptance. It's now what year, 2000 something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 2006."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "2006. By now you're probably already 60."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.642854774420331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 2006."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "2006. By now you're probably already 60."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I think I was 59 when I, when I was accepted. I turn, I became 60 in December and I went to Peace Corps in, in November for my training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, I was 59."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9365053049114787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I think I was 59 when I, when I was accepted. I turn, I became 60 in December and I went to Peace Corps in, in November for my training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, I was 59."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Department of Public Instruction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.262783672123865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, I was 59."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to, um. There was probably a big going away party or something, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Department of Public Instruction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.625315191248739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Department of Public Instruction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We call them 50 plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.028127990276377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was that, but I had one for friends where I gave away everything. Somehow even though since seventh grade, it never dawned on me that, you know, it's just two years. You know, you don't have to give away everything. I gave away my hose and shovels and volleyball set and things that I've been very sorry to be without when I, when I came back. But yeah, I had a huge party. It was as much as I'll ever do for, um, like a funeral. And everyone came, partly because I was leaving for something that sounded so exotic. And the other part was that I lived on this tiny cabin on the lake that everyone knew, and I'd had many parties and they knew that they were losing the place on the lake. You know, a friend who lived on the lake who would, you know, host them at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, for many older adults, um, I can only say older because I'm older than you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We call them 50 plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.475697766973752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We call them 50 plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. For people who join the Peace Corps when they're 50 plus, it's often very problematic because there's a house, there's a car, there are family, there, there are possessions that have to be somehow dealt with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, it was much easier for me. I was single, so I didn't have children. I was a lifetime renter, still am. So I didn't have a house. My friends were really good friends and they were rural friends. So I put my stuff, I thought I put my stuff in three barns, but when I came back, somehow I retrieved stuff from nine different p-laces, so I must have done things, either I forgot or else the folding chairs, the collection of folding chairs migrated someone else, to someone's house. But anyway, yeah, I had. So I didn't pay any storage. And those were, those were really simple. Yeah. What was less simple was that as soon as I got there, I got a phone call that my brother had a brain tumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As soon as you got to Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.972997518859724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that. You just gave it all away or you put some in storage. You sold the cabin on the lake? How did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, it was much easier for me. I was single, so I didn't have children. I was a lifetime renter, still am. So I didn't have a house. My friends were really good friends and they were rural friends. So I put my stuff, I thought I put my stuff in three barns, but when I came back, somehow I retrieved stuff from nine different p-laces, so I must have done things, either I forgot or else the folding chairs, the collection of folding chairs migrated someone else, to someone's house. But anyway, yeah, I had. So I didn't pay any storage. And those were, those were really simple. Yeah. What was less simple was that as soon as I got there, I got a phone call that my brother had a brain tumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As soon as you got to Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still in training, uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got a phone call saying your brother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.139503109703363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still in training, uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got a phone call saying your brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a brain tumor and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said to me, it would mean a lot to me and it would mean a lot to all of us if you stayed where you were. You know, we know that this is a dream of yours and we're kind of living it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stay in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.345065567535015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said to me, it would mean a lot to me and it would mean a lot to all of us if you stayed where you were. You know, we know that this is a dream of yours and we're kind of living it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stay in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Living it through your eyes. And you're writing these wonderful letters. Yeah. But at his brain tumor progressed really fast, and at the six month mark, thanks to Peace Corps, they have a policy that you can either go home for immediate family members to see them for a last time or for their funeral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take your pick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What'd you pick?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.722303169796316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take your pick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What'd you pick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, picked to see him while he was still alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes being far away on a different continent awful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.469225744218129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, picked to see him while he was still alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes being far away on a different continent awful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. It's very, it's very difficult. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your training, of course, was in country in Lesotho."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.29913971579792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did, I did make an unexpected trip home at that six month mark. And then I made an unplanned trip home for his memorial. They scheduled it at a time when I could come, so maybe about six months between those two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes being far away on a different continent awful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. It's very, it's very difficult. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your training, of course, was in country in Lesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk a little bit about what you experienced in training? The training would have gone on in the capital city of Lesotho, which is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.245851500985086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk a little bit about what you experienced in training? The training would have gone on in the capital city of Lesotho, which is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maseru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was, what sort of housing did they give you when you first arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.162057223316761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maseru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was, what sort of housing did they give you when you first arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, um, we had a training center. I think they still have it. It was just a little one story. It was, looked like sort of like those old- fashioned motels where there are little rooms lined up in a, in a block. Another, another block for, um, classrooms, another block for the kitchen. So we just kind of stayed within this little triangle for not too long, maybe a couple of weeks, because you know training had gone that, you know, that the sooner you put the trainees with their family then, or at least in a training village. So we moved very quickly into a training village, which was a real Lesotho village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we go to the training village, what went on in those first three weeks? Were you doing, were you in classrooms studying language and culture and history of the country or what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.081011280269906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm almost thinking it was a first one week. It was pretty, pretty fast. And then we would come back there from time to time. Uh. Yeah. So it was, I remember the first thing. I'd been, you know, doing all these presentations and teacher trainings. And the first time we walked into the classroom, the trainers pulled out these flip charts. They were mostly native Basotho trainers. They had us divided up in the morning for languages and the afternoon for culture. And they pulled out these flip charts and I just smiled. I sat there and I went like, I can't believe that they haven't tapped into me. You know, I do this for a living. I train. And I enjoyed so much that all they expected me to do was just sort of sit and be a student and participant. And I would, I had no trouble participating in it. And I went like, these people are really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so impressed with the quality of training and, and, you know, just how well the curriculum had been worked over, what we should learn. We didn't learn very much irrelevant stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.867790311411007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so impressed with the quality of training and, and, you know, just how well the curriculum had been worked over, what we should learn. We didn't learn very much irrelevant stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.408655901567785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things, you know, they get a lot of feedback. They got a lot of feedback when I left, but they'd gotten feedback from previous people. What was useful to you? What was not useful to us? And so we just learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very good to hear. And you referred to the people who did the training as Basotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.009617668408651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Which is the name of the people who live in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.566241853787389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Lesotho is very mono ethnic. Most, there's about three tribes, but maybe 70, 80 percent Basotho people. So the country is Lesotho. The language is Sesotho. The people in the plural are Basotho. And every once in a while you're talking about just one of them and that person is Mosotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh. How interesting that the beginning of the word denotes whether it's plural or singular."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language. They had small language classes of four. They looked at me like I was elderly and like I wouldn't be able to accomplish much. And I was really incensed about that. And I, I felt like how much a teacher's expectation holds you back, because they would put me, just the two of us, together with this Craig, who was really having trouble remembering how to say hello. And they didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was also an over 50 person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.851379837541543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And what, what were they teaching you there? You said there was very little that was irrelevant. So I would imagine they were teaching you a lot of language and culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language. They had small language classes of four. They looked at me like I was elderly and like I wouldn't be able to accomplish much. And I was really incensed about that. And I, I felt like how much a teacher's expectation holds you back, because they would put me, just the two of us, together with this Craig, who was really having trouble remembering how to say hello. And they didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was also an over 50 person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was over 30. He might have been 40, but he was. Because I was the oldest and because he was a person having trouble, they would, they paired. Oh, and because both of us were going to be assigned to the Lesotho College of Education. So we were kind of already in a little subset in some of our other classes. They would, they would put us together. And I just chafed under that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that slowing down your language acquisition?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.520222021656225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was over 30. He might have been 40, but he was. Because I was the oldest and because he was a person having trouble, they would, they paired. Oh, and because both of us were going to be assigned to the Lesotho College of Education. So we were kind of already in a little subset in some of our other classes. They would, they would put us together. And I just chafed under that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that slowing down your language acquisition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And every once in a while I would insist on being with a fast track class and I would really do that. But every time they would call on me or they would skip over me, I just, I just felt like students feel when a teacher doesn't believe you can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9113578018402504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And every once in a while I would insist on being with a fast track class and I would really do that. But every time they would call on me or they would skip over me, I just, I just felt like students feel when a teacher doesn't believe you can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they are genuinely bilingual."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.345953113155834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I scored really high on my, my final language test and they were all just came around and hugged me and congratulated me. And they'd never had an older student who had done so well. And that, that annoyed me too. You know, because I was sort of like, what was I telling you? You know, kind of things. So I did, I did write a complaint about that that I know went all the way. I know it went all the way to Washington because I could track it later when I started working in Washington. You know, don't treat older people like they're, like they can't, can't learn. But older people are a language learning problem so. They have research that, that, and even my own. I struggled also. It was the first language I really struggled with in terms of memory so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have the sense that had you been studying Lesotho in your twenties, you might have, it might have been somewhat easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they are genuinely bilingual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Genuine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English was not so much a foreign language as a second language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.828836792395371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it would have been somewhat easier. But really my, my biggest obstacle was, was just that I really worked with teachers and the teachers all had English, and their English was a real second language. It wasn't like they were happy to speak it with me. It was like they did speak it with their students. You know, it was, it was a real in practice. They had no trouble whatsoever speaking English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they are genuinely bilingual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Genuine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English was not so much a foreign language as a second language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then the other part of your training happened in a small village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3653742137726335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Genuine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English was not so much a foreign language as a second language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then the other part of your training happened in a small village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that village was? Was that Ha?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.850415793080704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. English was weaker than their Sesotho. But, but, yeah, the minute they saw a white person, they switched into English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then the other part of your training happened in a small village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that village was? Was that Ha?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and sent off into three different villages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.389350881200782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that village was? Was that Ha?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and sent off into three different villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in that little village you lived with a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.988167645778646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ha Makebe, yeah. Ha means village. So, yeah, we were three villages, kind of walking distance from one another. But we didn't associate much. We were divided into three groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and sent off into three different villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in that little village you lived with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with, I lived. There was a little separate room. In Lesotho, there's a lot of rondavels, mud huts, or there's little cement block houses with, uh, what do you call this tin roofs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Corrugated tin roofs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.542408495309607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in that little village you lived with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with, I lived. There was a little separate room. In Lesotho, there's a lot of rondavels, mud huts, or there's little cement block houses with, uh, what do you call this tin roofs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Corrugated tin roofs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot in the summer and cold in the winter. And the rondavels, the mud houses are, are the reverse. But yeah, this was a, family had a house with a couple bedrooms, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it was a rondavel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.731368512727909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot in the summer and cold in the winter. And the rondavels, the mud houses are, are the reverse. But yeah, this was a, family had a house with a couple bedrooms, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it was a rondavel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was the cement block house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it had a little separate bedroom to the side. And I think the older boy slept there until I came. And then for the month of training, then I would sleep, I slept there. And the older boys doubled up, slept on the floor someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a door that you could close? Did you have privacy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.368187236364343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was the cement block house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it had a little separate bedroom to the side. And I think the older boy slept there until I came. And then for the month of training, then I would sleep, I slept there. And the older boys doubled up, slept on the floor someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a door that you could close? Did you have privacy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within that room. And when you ate your meals, you would eat with the family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.735510612296766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would eat with the family or they would bring in my meals, bring in my meal. And Peace Corps had told them that we had to have protein and that we liked peanut butter and that we. So we ate much better, I ate much better than the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then I kind of objected to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so that meant that I either had to share what I had, which I would tend to do. They would put down like a bowl of papa, which was cornmeal mush, for the three children. And they would sit down with me and then I would get this plate that had, you know, looked like out of a nutritionist's, you know, they had given them actual physical pictures of what to serve us. And they'd given the money to buy the extra food. But it wasn't extra food for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.982867780928348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone. You know, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's awkward."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was awkward. But anyway, the kids were fascinated by what I was eating and I was fascinated by what they were eating. So I would bring my tray in and then I would divide up the food so that the kids could, you know, taste whatever it was I was tasting, you know. And then I would sometimes buy a little extra so the mom could make, if she was going to make pudding for me, to make a little extra so she could make pudding for the kids. And I wasn't supposed to do that. But anyway, it was. I think Peace Corps volunteers cheat a lot on that sort of, that sort of, what do you call it? Generosity that might be mistaken. But anyway, it's hard not to share your food with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.314297534364831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was awkward. But anyway, the kids were fascinated by what I was eating and I was fascinated by what they were eating. So I would bring my tray in and then I would divide up the food so that the kids could, you know, taste whatever it was I was tasting, you know. And then I would sometimes buy a little extra so the mom could make, if she was going to make pudding for me, to make a little extra so she could make pudding for the kids. And I wasn't supposed to do that. But anyway, it was. I think Peace Corps volunteers cheat a lot on that sort of, that sort of, what do you call it? Generosity that might be mistaken. But anyway, it's hard not to share your food with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.793663927072034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a real conundrum there where you want to be healthy, in order to be effective enough, to be healthy, and you have to get the nutrition that you need. On the other hand, you want to be part of a family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a dilemma, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.992959918968927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And don't want to have them look at you eating all this interesting stuff that they can't have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a dilemma, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it got to be when I was a volunteer and I was out of training. I would go all the way to Maseru, a six hour bus ride, to go to one kind of an upscale grocery. There was only one in Maseru at that time, and it was where all the diplomatic families shopped and all the wealthy Basotho. And I could get things like a package of Oreo cookies or a jar of peanut butter or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A jar of olives?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.583901134529539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it got to be when I was a volunteer and I was out of training. I would go all the way to Maseru, a six hour bus ride, to go to one kind of an upscale grocery. There was only one in Maseru at that time, and it was where all the diplomatic families shopped and all the wealthy Basotho. And I could get things like a package of Oreo cookies or a jar of peanut butter or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A jar of olives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Box wine, that was real, that was real contraband. And then I would take it in my backpack and I would unpack it, like secret it away. And when people came into my rondavel, I had a rondavel when I was in the village, I would always make sure that my cupboards were shut. And, you know, then I did eat and not share. And every once in a while I would have my family over, you know, for, or guests over for dinner and things like that. But it was just such a stark difference from very poor people that are eating a bowl of papa every day, three times a day, you know, to, to the kind of way I was eating with cheese and bread and, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's papa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Papa is a cornmeal mush. It was the main staple of Lesotho and a 100 pound bag sold for about $27. That would last a family some portion of a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm not sure we finished training. I'm itching to get into the village and what your work was as a Peace Corps volunteer. But how long, how long did the training last?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.955433499419183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Papa is a cornmeal mush. It was the main staple of Lesotho and a 100 pound bag sold for about $27. That would last a family some portion of a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm not sure we finished training. I'm itching to get into the village and what your work was as a Peace Corps volunteer. But how long, how long did the training last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think training was three, three months in all. And so we were a couple of weeks with, uh, with, at the center, and then we were a month with the family. And then we were back to the center during Christmas when all the men, the Basotho men, came home from the mines and they didn't, they didn't want us around. There tend to be a lot of drinking, some fights. The couples need a chance for some privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And families need to be families without the distraction. So they pulled us out and we were all like, oh, we want to do Christmas. We want to do Christmas, because we're thinking, you know, Christmas on our terms. But yeah. And then, then we went to visit another volunteer. I had a wonderful, wonderful experience visiting another volunteer for I think four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a volunteer who had been there before you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.537572221505162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And families need to be families without the distraction. So they pulled us out and we were all like, oh, we want to do Christmas. We want to do Christmas, because we're thinking, you know, Christmas on our terms. But yeah. And then, then we went to visit another volunteer. I had a wonderful, wonderful experience visiting another volunteer for I think four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a volunteer who had been there before you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, who was ahead of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's exciting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.708413579450179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, who was ahead of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.898237310500198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someone who is in their second year. We were in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They only got a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.88693034500022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think we went back to the village for another, maybe it was three weeks that were left over by that time, of our three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by that time the men in the village had returned to South Africa to the mines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They only got a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week's vacation in a year, and more than two days of that was just transportation, you know. So they really had about three or four days in the village with their family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was right to pull you out, I think, because that family really needed to focus not on you, but the spotlight on the man who had returned."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.985478161111356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They only got a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week's vacation in a year, and more than two days of that was just transportation, you know. So they really had about three or four days in the village with their family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was right to pull you out, I think, because that family really needed to focus not on you, but the spotlight on the man who had returned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. I would, I would have been a distraction. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of training then, was there some sort of ceremony?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.0308342402076205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was. There was a nice ceremony, and I've seen pictures of it since then. I think what I would want to add, though, is what it's like being the only 60 year old among 20 somethings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that a lot of times I felt like I was supposed to be learning about the Lesotho culture, but I was learning as much about how 20 somethings lived and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say an early couple, you mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7009269335640225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that a lot of times I felt like I was supposed to be learning about the Lesotho culture, but I was learning as much about how 20 somethings lived and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say an early couple, you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.445474370626692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I lived in a house with, uh, let's see, who was? There were a couple, a young couple who kind of was an early couple in our group and have since married, a couple of librarians, and Sarah and Anne, who were kind of in their thirties. They felt old or maybe they were in their forties. They felt old, but they weren't 60. And then me and then. Oh, and Todd and Rachel also were an early couple, and they also got married and are still married so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say an early couple, you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew they were meant for one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they met through Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.272749300696324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Paired off way back in Philadelphia, in that orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew they were meant for one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they met through Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they met, yeah. We had several couples. Several pregnancies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many? How many people all together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.19194366744036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And knew they were meant for one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they met through Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they met, yeah. We had several couples. Several pregnancies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many? How many people all together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were about 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 people in your group. That's a relatively small group, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.34807860177822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were about 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 people in your group. That's a relatively small group, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is it? Well, I mean, in Lesotho, all together then we were like 60 or 70."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I think they're up to 100."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.49786511308691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is it? Well, I mean, in Lesotho, all together then we were like 60 or 70."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I think they're up to 100."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They had an intake, a health intake, and then a half year later, an education intake. And then they were like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some people who paired up during training and there were some other people who arrived as married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.377044050873674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they, they met. We didn't have any married couples in our group. It was a really young group and I was kind of the, the. So Craig, who was assigned with me, and then the two woman, women, Anne Marie and Sarah, who were in their forties, we were kind of the older group. And then with these other two couples, they, we were kind of the nonconformists. But the other people, they would, at 4:00 they would say, do you guys want to get drunk tonight? And it was a serious question. And they'd all say yes. And then Jason would, you know, collect money from everyone. And then he and a couple of other people would go down to the liquor store and come back with, you know, each of them had bottles, you know, like not just a beer, but like whiskey, like hard stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they would proceed to drink all, dance and have music and maybe start with, start with movies or something. And sometimes they'd have a theme, like dress up like a toga party or something. They're just kind of blowing off steam, and our Mosotho woman who was with us 24/7, it didn't bother her at all. She'd seen Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Seen this before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.004175652775958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People blowing off steam before. And, you know, we were in our little compound and there were no Basotho watching us except for the guards. And I would always kind of bow out and go to bed early. And I'd get up in the morning like at 5:00 or 6:00. I would run in the early morning. And there would be bottles everywhere. And what was so embarrassing to me was not just the mess that people had left. Oh, and cigarettes, cigarette butts. But if you factored in how much cigarettes cost and how much liquor cost, that I knew that when the guards changed at six and an extra guard came that they would be seeing just this, it's just such a wasteful display of wealth. And so I cleaned up after every single party we had during training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would go around, clean up all the cigarettes and put all of the bottles. I mean, it didn't fool anyone, you know, I'm sure the guards knew that we'd drunk all that stuff or, you know, that they talked about it. But it just sort of seemed like to, both to do it and then to not clean up after yourself. And I also was conscious of, you know, just as a mother, an older woman, to the women who were always cleaning up after us, you know, like well couldn't we just? Just give me the broom, I'll sweep out our own room. You know, that kind of thing is what we older women would say. But the younger people, I'd just go like, oh my gosh, they're so young. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, were you able to do anything about that? I mean, could you address this issue with the whole group or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the drinking issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not your mission to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.671306280862175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would go around, clean up all the cigarettes and put all of the bottles. I mean, it didn't fool anyone, you know, I'm sure the guards knew that we'd drunk all that stuff or, you know, that they talked about it. But it just sort of seemed like to, both to do it and then to not clean up after yourself. And I also was conscious of, you know, just as a mother, an older woman, to the women who were always cleaning up after us, you know, like well couldn't we just? Just give me the broom, I'll sweep out our own room. You know, that kind of thing is what we older women would say. But the younger people, I'd just go like, oh my gosh, they're so young. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, were you able to do anything about that? I mean, could you address this issue with the whole group or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the drinking issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not your mission to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And any time, I learned really fast that the minute I tried to give advice, and since I'm an oldest child, that's a really bad habit of mine, people just shut me off. So I really learned not to try to give advice or pretend I was wiser or more experienced and, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't be pretending."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.001612692422437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And any time, I learned really fast that the minute I tried to give advice, and since I'm an oldest child, that's a really bad habit of mine, people just shut me off. So I really learned not to try to give advice or pretend I was wiser or more experienced and, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't be pretending."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, sometimes I'd work in small groups with people and we were like writing curriculum or something like that, you know? And so I'd kind of want to say something like, this lesson doesn't have an object, you know? But yeah, we did, uh. It was more like when I quit giving advice to people and thinking of myself as wiser, I realized when it came to Basotho culture, we were really all on the same, on the same level. We were all equal. I was as ignorant as they were. I made as many mistakes as they did. I struggled as much with language, if not more so, than they did. And so there was a real humility before these 20 somethings. And then when I was like that, you know, I became more likable to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't want a chaperone or an old lady or an auntie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or a mom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.779569658247152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, sometimes I'd work in small groups with people and we were like writing curriculum or something like that, you know? And so I'd kind of want to say something like, this lesson doesn't have an object, you know? But yeah, we did, uh. It was more like when I quit giving advice to people and thinking of myself as wiser, I realized when it came to Basotho culture, we were really all on the same, on the same level. We were all equal. I was as ignorant as they were. I made as many mistakes as they did. I struggled as much with language, if not more so, than they did. And so there was a real humility before these 20 somethings. And then when I was like that, you know, I became more likable to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't want a chaperone or an old lady or an auntie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or a mom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or a mom with them, you know. But every once in a while, you know, when a young person would be walking with me and they would say, boy, I hope when I'm your age I'm, you know, doing fun things. And I'd always kind of look at them because at that moment I was just thinking of, they were 26 and I was 26. We were both 26. And every once in a while they would say something to remind me that they did really see me as an older lady. It was, it was great. Being around with 20 somethings was as much of a cultural challenge and as educational as it was being around Basotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is jumping way ahead, but have you maintained friendships with some of those 20 somethings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.60440698549031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or a mom with them, you know. But every once in a while, you know, when a young person would be walking with me and they would say, boy, I hope when I'm your age I'm, you know, doing fun things. And I'd always kind of look at them because at that moment I was just thinking of, they were 26 and I was 26. We were both 26. And every once in a while they would say something to remind me that they did really see me as an older lady. It was, it was great. Being around with 20 somethings was as much of a cultural challenge and as educational as it was being around Basotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is jumping way ahead, but have you maintained friendships with some of those 20 somethings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the ones I've mentioned, the ones that I kind of formed a, a connection with there. Those six to eight people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other people that I didn't really form close, I have them all on an email list and now I'm newsletter editor for the newsletter. So I find excuses to send them this and that that I think people might be interested in or might like to know. But I rarely get back any reply so. I don't think it was a negative feeling. It's just like I didn't come out with 30 close friends. I came out with, you know, about 6 to 8 close friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds just about right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.671563317211456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the ones I've mentioned, the ones that I kind of formed a, a connection with there. Those six to eight people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other people that I didn't really form close, I have them all on an email list and now I'm newsletter editor for the newsletter. So I find excuses to send them this and that that I think people might be interested in or might like to know. But I rarely get back any reply so. I don't think it was a negative feeling. It's just like I didn't come out with 30 close friends. I came out with, you know, about 6 to 8 close friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds just about right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training is finished and now you move to the village that will be your home for two or maybe three years. Where, um, where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.594522613841304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training is finished and now you move to the village that will be your home for two or maybe three years. Where, um, where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in the south, southern part of Lesotho, in a, um, in the province called Quthing, Q-U-T-H-I-N-G. And there was, there's kind of a road, one road that goes around Lesotho. All of it is really close to the border of South Africa because it's in the middle of South Africa. But there's a lot of mountains in the middle, and this one road doesn't go all the way around Lesotho. It's more like a C shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.438358459823672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in the south, southern part of Lesotho, in a, um, in the province called Quthing, Q-U-T-H-I-N-G. And there was, there's kind of a road, one road that goes around Lesotho. All of it is really close to the border of South Africa because it's in the middle of South Africa. But there's a lot of mountains in the middle, and this one road doesn't go all the way around Lesotho. It's more like a C shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hours from the capital."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.375953844248524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, I was. That main road though will take you everywhere you want to go that, you know, busses and taxis go so on the. Most of the times Peace Corps could make it in, I don't know, 3 hours in their white vans. But when you pause to change and wait for until the bus filled up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, when you're riding local transportation it would take way longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hours from the capital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of the village that you were in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0843931602761385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it'd take six hours. Yeah, 6 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six hours from the capital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of the village that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I was in Mount Moorosi, about 1,000 rondavels. It had a high school. It had a couple of churches high on hills that we would hike to one of them. And it had a preschool, had a little tiny main street with two Chinese groceries that competed with one another. And then the little stands of cabbages and apples. Did you need to take a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'm fine. Do you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.871547955862376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of the village that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I was in Mount Moorosi, about 1,000 rondavels. It had a high school. It had a couple of churches high on hills that we would hike to one of them. And it had a preschool, had a little tiny main street with two Chinese groceries that competed with one another. And then the little stands of cabbages and apples. Did you need to take a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'm fine. Do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's pause this. [tape break] Okay. We are back. We've taken a short break. Training is finished, you move into your village, which was called Mount Moorosi, and you're given a place to live. Did you have to find your own place to live, or was, uh, did Peace Corps take you to a? How did you arrive? Did Peace Corps drive you into your town in one of their Peace Corps vans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.19142380776732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I arrived in a white Peace Corps. What did they call those Jeep like looking things that all the international development people?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Land Rovers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Land Rovers, yeah. Four wheel drive and bounced off the main road. And I remember being so disappointed that I was living so close to the main road. I knew that it was because they thought I was older and that older people have to be near evacuation routes according to Peace Corps headquarters. Because my colleague, who was Craig, who was to be working with, also working with the Lesotho College of Education, he was far out with a waterfall and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole, much more, much more remote setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had thought that, you had imagined yourself in a remote place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.990470897519244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Land Rovers, yeah. Four wheel drive and bounced off the main road. And I remember being so disappointed that I was living so close to the main road. I knew that it was because they thought I was older and that older people have to be near evacuation routes according to Peace Corps headquarters. Because my colleague, who was Craig, who was to be working with, also working with the Lesotho College of Education, he was far out with a waterfall and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole, much more, much more remote setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had thought that, you had imagined yourself in a remote place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I asked to be as far away from, from towns as possible. It was clear that some people were going to have horses and ride into the mountains and have to haul their own water. And but I quickly learned within, within a couple of days that, you know, beyond the town, it was amazingly remote and that I could hike as much as I wanted. And I did have to haul my own water and I didn't have electricity. And, yeah, I quickly quit complaining that, you know, that I needed to be more, more remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So Peace Corps takes you there and they would have, uh, they would have already known where your house was going to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.6425566636040045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I asked to be as far away from, from towns as possible. It was clear that some people were going to have horses and ride into the mountains and have to haul their own water. And but I quickly learned within, within a couple of days that, you know, beyond the town, it was amazingly remote and that I could hike as much as I wanted. And I did have to haul my own water and I didn't have electricity. And, yeah, I quickly quit complaining that, you know, that I needed to be more, more remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So Peace Corps takes you there and they would have, uh, they would have already known where your house was going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a woman and I was her third Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they had been over a period of 20 years. So they didn't use her every year. But they thought we would be perfect because we were the same age and she was living alone and I would be a woman living alone. She had four children here and there, and she had been divorced a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we're describing, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.047285181782227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a woman and I was her third Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they had been over a period of 20 years. So they didn't use her every year. But they thought we would be perfect because we were the same age and she was living alone and I would be a woman living alone. She had four children here and there, and she had been divorced a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we're describing, uh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is Me Ma Bokong was her name. And you're named after, your name changes when you have your first son. So her first son was Bokong. So she became Me, or Madame, M-E was short for madame, probably from the old colonial times. Me Ma Bokong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so she's, she's the mother of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.99664837257065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is Me Ma Bokong was her name. And you're named after, your name changes when you have your first son. So her first son was Bokong. So she became Me, or Madame, M-E was short for madame, probably from the old colonial times. Me Ma Bokong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so she's, she's the mother of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of Bokong, the oldest son, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and funny I never asked her what her name was before that, or if she told me I'd forgotten, forgotten it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were to live with her in her home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.5518315250785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of Bokong, the oldest son, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and funny I never asked her what her name was before that, or if she told me I'd forgotten, forgotten it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were to live with her in her home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but in Lesotho there, there are like a lot of African villages. There are compounds. And so in the compound that might be, ours was fenced off so that the chickens wouldn't get out. But in the fenced off compound, there was my rondavel, her rondavel. No, my rondavel, her cement house with the tin roof. The chicken coop. A double outhouse, one outhouse for me, and one outhouse for her, carpeted, which I liked a lot. A shed for throwing things like glass bottles. A garden. And, um, yeah, that was about it. And before I came, I don't know whether she had family members staying in the rondavel or whether it had been empty for a while. But I think the previous Peace Corps volunteers had also stayed in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that rondavel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.384977191454937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but in Lesotho there, there are like a lot of African villages. There are compounds. And so in the compound that might be, ours was fenced off so that the chickens wouldn't get out. But in the fenced off compound, there was my rondavel, her rondavel. No, my rondavel, her cement house with the tin roof. The chicken coop. A double outhouse, one outhouse for me, and one outhouse for her, carpeted, which I liked a lot. A shed for throwing things like glass bottles. A garden. And, um, yeah, that was about it. And before I came, I don't know whether she had family members staying in the rondavel or whether it had been empty for a while. But I think the previous Peace Corps volunteers had also stayed in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that rondavel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they, maybe one was 20 years ago and one was ten years ago, and she would complain that they didn't keep in touch with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not so complaining."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.872196879394375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they, maybe one was 20 years ago and one was ten years ago, and she would complain that they didn't keep in touch with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not so complaining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I learned so much from her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.413552088215972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was, she's kind of a bossy, complaining lady. We were, in a way, a good kind of match since I was sort of bossy on my own, on my own terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not so complaining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I learned so much from her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the wall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.903946764684413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I learned so much from her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about your rondavel? I'm not, I don't have a real clear picture of what a rondavel looks like or how big it is or what it feels like to be inside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the wall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that about nine feet? So maybe about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine or ten, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.337718627427125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Uh, how many feet is it from here to there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the wall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that about nine feet? So maybe about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine or ten, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About nine feet radius, maybe 18 foot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, radius or diameter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.355208182008796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About nine feet radius, maybe 18 foot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, radius or diameter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Circumference. So it's round."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mud on the outside and straw roof and really beautiful cross beams to hold up the straw. And almost like maybe you would think a teepee or something would be. I would wake up in the morning and I would look up at the complex arrangement of cross beams. There are very few people now in Lesotho who to know how to build these traditional roofs. Yeah, and every once in a while they re-mud the outside if cracks, cracks develop and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have to put fresh straw up on top?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.839120202231995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Circumference. So it's round."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mud on the outside and straw roof and really beautiful cross beams to hold up the straw. And almost like maybe you would think a teepee or something would be. I would wake up in the morning and I would look up at the complex arrangement of cross beams. There are very few people now in Lesotho who to know how to build these traditional roofs. Yeah, and every once in a while they re-mud the outside if cracks, cracks develop and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have to put fresh straw up on top?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think they did, but not in my time. They last a long time. So maybe 20 years or something and then you would re-straw it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a window?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.86311136078024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think they did, but not in my time. They last a long time. So maybe 20 years or something and then you would re-straw it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a window?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two windows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glass?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you couldn't get out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4034570675336004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two windows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glass?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you couldn't get out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Couldn't get out the windows. But yeah, you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the door like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.003841186148445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One that faced the road, mm hmm, in glass, and one that faced Me Ma Bokong's house so I could kind of check on people. And there was a little stair step porch. And then there were four, because I was a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps required them to put on iron bars. So my door had an iron bar and my windows had an iron bar. Really not very safe, you know, if there was a fire, you couldn't get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you couldn't get out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Couldn't get out the windows. But yeah, you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the door like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a wooden door that was really broken down. And at one point, I, I asked my Me Ma Bokong to find a carpenter to fix it because it was locking inadvertently. One time I locked myself in and then I couldn't get out the bar windows. But anyway, so when he fixed it, I realized that I had the same carpentry skills that this man did. And I had no carpentry skills and he had no tools. And I at least had a little hammer and a measuring, measuring tape and a pencil. Three things that he borrowed from me. Anyway, it was a terrible repair, but at least I didn't lock myself in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there would have been a wooden door with a wooden frame somehow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.412149612528943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a wooden door that was really broken down. And at one point, I, I asked my Me Ma Bokong to find a carpenter to fix it because it was locking inadvertently. One time I locked myself in and then I couldn't get out the bar windows. But anyway, so when he fixed it, I realized that I had the same carpentry skills that this man did. And I had no carpentry skills and he had no tools. And I at least had a little hammer and a measuring, measuring tape and a pencil. Three things that he borrowed from me. Anyway, it was a terrible repair, but at least I didn't lock myself in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there would have been a wooden door with a wooden frame somehow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm, and a wooden frame. So that, and one of those handles that you pushed down on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.235721791698825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm, and a wooden frame. So that, and one of those handles that you pushed down on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, so there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all one room, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.150801990776472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then when I got that opened, pulled it toward myself, then there was this iron gate, which usually I just left open. I would only close it and lock it if I was going to be away from the rondavel for some period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And what did you have inside furniture wise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, so there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all one room, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wardrobe or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.945335545307192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, so there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all one room, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wardrobe or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a garde-robe or. That's French. Anyway, you know, a wooden closet had one of those things where my clothes were, and then my bed. And then on another side of the rondavel, all I had my kitchen, which was a little table with two pans for washing dishes. And then I had a little one burner or two burners for a stove, nothing to bake in. I learned to bake in a solar cooker, which another project, NGO project had given to my, to Me Ma Bokong. Learned how to cook bread in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for water you had to draw it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.7170394947857694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's all one bed, but it's all one room. But what we learned in training was that it's kind of pie shaped and. And you should respect the room. You should respect the rooms. Like you shouldn't throw your clothes over everything because your clothes go in your bedroom. So you put your little stack of clothes or, uh, I think this one had, what do you call those things that you hang clothes into?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wardrobe or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a garde-robe or. That's French. Anyway, you know, a wooden closet had one of those things where my clothes were, and then my bed. And then on another side of the rondavel, all I had my kitchen, which was a little table with two pans for washing dishes. And then I had a little one burner or two burners for a stove, nothing to bake in. I learned to bake in a solar cooker, which another project, NGO project had given to my, to Me Ma Bokong. Learned how to cook bread in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for water you had to draw it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for water, water was the, it was hilarious. The women got water once a day and they carried it in a big, what is this, a ten gallon bucket on top of their heads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.496624821379656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They learned how to do that when they were little girls. So little girls who were like three or four would carry little kind of one gallon bucket on top of their head and they would balance it perfectly, although you could put a handkerchief or something there. Anyway, I never learned to do it. And the women at the pump used to laugh at me trying. And I, first I couldn't carry a big one and then I couldn't, I went down to a little one and that still splashed all over my glasses and all over my head. And I would always have to have one hand up there balancing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then sooner or later it would tip over anyway. They thought I was hilarious. They'd never met anyone, you know, who couldn't carry water on their head. It's sort of like, I don't know, like what we would think of someone who doesn't know how to use a pencil or, you know, it's something very basic. But yeah, getting water was tough. It was uphill, excuse me, from the, from the, from the pump. And by my third year there, I wasn't above paying little girls a small amount of money to bring me my water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I learned how to use, let's see. I used three gallons of water a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.32940835448812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it used to have so many water and be so rich in water that South Africa created a dam. And South Africa now takes all the water from the dam in South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And since then, a lot of the rivers have dried up and they don't have good agricultural practices anyway, more of a slash and burn kind of culture. So everywhere you were, you'd be thinking about water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how carefully people conserve."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9215648383201325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And since then, a lot of the rivers have dried up and they don't have good agricultural practices anyway, more of a slash and burn kind of culture. So everywhere you were, you'd be thinking about water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how carefully people conserve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long shower. You had your, um."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.579516487022369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In, in a larger, larger sense. Like you saw that there were the huge parts of the world that just have these amazing water shortages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how carefully people conserve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long shower. You had your, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bathe out of a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3105738744692985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the only one who conserved water. Yeah, you never really saw anyone like, or heard anyone, like throw out a bucket of water or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A long shower. You had your, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bathe out of a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to cook for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.122859860521443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bathe out of a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I want to call her your host mother, but she had a garden, so there must have been, she must have had to. So your leftover dishwater would go on that garden I suppose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to cook for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed healthy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.025399845023825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would, yeah. But there was rain. You know, it wasn't completely dry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to cook for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed healthy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole three years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.91711093891536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I cooked for myself. Yeah. I learned both the traditional cooking and, uh, which was easy because there weren't very many things. I have a, we had a, Peace Corps gave us a cookbook of Basotho foods. There was only one dish that's really multiple ingredients. Most things are just very, very simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed healthy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost 20 pounds. I walked miles and miles and miles in a week. I walked all the, I was assigned to 27 schools and I went out to visit the teachers in these 27 schools. That'd take me a long time just to find the school. But to get there, I would be dropped off from the main road by a taxi, so-called taxi, one of those vans stuffed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, a collective."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.90790104323929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost 20 pounds. I walked miles and miles and miles in a week. I walked all the, I was assigned to 27 schools and I went out to visit the teachers in these 27 schools. That'd take me a long time just to find the school. But to get there, I would be dropped off from the main road by a taxi, so-called taxi, one of those vans stuffed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, a collective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "21 people instead of 16 people. And then they would all point and say over there, over there, just follow the path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd ask again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.231976596591716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "21 people instead of 16 people. And then they would all point and say over there, over there, just follow the path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd ask again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd follow the path until the path diverged because it was a country of geese, ha, geese. Goats and sheep and cows. And there was, so there were trails, there were no fences, but there were animal trails everywhere. The little boys would, would take care of the, of the family animals, so that, in the mountains that just meant there were so many trails. So most of the time when I was supposed to be finding a school, to find the teacher, to help the teacher, to evaluate her. And these were all teachers enrolled in the college program. I would get lost. So I spent a lot of time lost in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.924418440657462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd follow the path until the path diverged because it was a country of geese, ha, geese. Goats and sheep and cows. And there was, so there were trails, there were no fences, but there were animal trails everywhere. The little boys would, would take care of the, of the family animals, so that, in the mountains that just meant there were so many trails. So most of the time when I was supposed to be finding a school, to find the teacher, to help the teacher, to evaluate her. And these were all teachers enrolled in the college program. I would get lost. So I spent a lot of time lost in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.69379826739718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nobody, there was no one who could have told me where the 27 schools were. And we didn't use GPS in Lesotho at that time. Maybe you could now. Maybe you could now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to get from one school to another and then back to your house, it was walking. You'd, you'd do one school in a day or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Me knew where I was, you know, if anyone asked. And she always knew who the principal was. So she would say, oh, give Me so-and-so my best regards, or give her this, you know, plum preserves that I've made or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's very helpful to have at least somebody knew where you were and would have some idea of how to get there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.548664741552422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would do two, about two schools in a week. I would, I would do, or maybe three schools in a week. I would do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were my visit school days. And if there were, if they were near one another, I would stay overnight and do the second one, you know. I didn't, I didn't always come home Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was actually I was often away Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Me knew where I was, you know, if anyone asked. And she always knew who the principal was. So she would say, oh, give Me so-and-so my best regards, or give her this, you know, plum preserves that I've made or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's very helpful to have at least somebody knew where you were and would have some idea of how to get there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm assuming that these teachers that you visited on these outlying areas did not have telephones. So you could, how did you set up? Did they know you were coming?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.084771285867188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm assuming that these teachers that you visited on these outlying areas did not have telephones. So you could, how did you set up? Did they know you were coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got really good at using the taxi. Like the, like the, um. What am I going to say? What did they? Like the Pony Express. So the taxis would go from our taxi center to all these outlying towns. So I would go to the taxi center and I would say, what taxi is going to this village? And then the drivers never caught on that they could have asked me for like a dollar a letter or something like that. But I would say, would you give this letter to Me so-and-so and she's at the school teacher and do you know where the school is? Yeah, yeah, I know where the school was. So what they would do is they would pull up near the school and they would then ask one of the passengers, usually the youngest little boy, to run down and give this note to the teacher. And it usually worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, that usually worked. And if I came unannounced, well, that was. They weren't really happy about that. But that did happen sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an ingenious way of letting them know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.166384303539736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, that usually worked. And if I came unannounced, well, that was. They weren't really happy about that. But that did happen sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an ingenious way of letting them know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the way everyone else did things. Sometimes I would get notes, you know, like, I'm not going to be there that day, so don't visit me on Tuesday. And I would also see these teachers in the summer and in the, over the Christmas break and over the summer break, they had to be in Maseru at the college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.74042700393304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the way everyone else did things. Sometimes I would get notes, you know, like, I'm not going to be there that day, so don't visit me on Tuesday. And I would also see these teachers in the summer and in the, over the Christmas break and over the summer break, they had to be in Maseru at the college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I would visit each of the 27 schools two or three times. Some of the ones more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so let's talk about a visit. You'd arrive after having walked for hours and hours."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3782522265922665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was supposed to be there as an instructor. So I would meet with them and then I would say, I would make up little, little schedules. And I say, I think I'm going to visit you the second week in March. Will that work out? And I'll try to send a taxi note."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, that's good. So you'd prepare them for that idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I would visit each of the 27 schools two or three times. Some of the ones more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so let's talk about a visit. You'd arrive after having walked for hours and hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd be I imagine you took along a little bit of something to munch on or a little water or something to drink, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.5147492820195705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always dressed in my seshoeshoe [also spelled shweshwe], which is the traditional dress, cotton."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seshoeshoe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seshoeshoe, yeah, it's, um. It's left over from kind of colonial dresses. It's either, it's always one of three colors, red or brown or blue. And it's always hand-sewn and usually a skirt and a blouse. And then they do some beautiful white embroidery on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would wear this dress, which is a."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.238610313355078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seshoeshoe, yeah, it's, um. It's left over from kind of colonial dresses. It's either, it's always one of three colors, red or brown or blue. And it's always hand-sewn and usually a skirt and a blouse. And then they do some beautiful white embroidery on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would wear this dress, which is a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, seshoeshoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what they would wear to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9317892370611975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I brought back seven of those dresses. I had them made for me because everyone has them made. You can't buy them anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would wear this dress, which is a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, seshoeshoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what they would wear to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their high heels?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.701988041179108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, seshoeshoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what they would wear to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their high heels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In their high heels or in their flats or in their, um. Me Ma Bokong had, had, uh. [phone rings] Let me turn this phone off, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll pause this. I think we're back on again. We are. So we were talking about the shoes that teachers wore and that your host mother wore too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.335542267976787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the teachers would wear. And then I would wear my Nike hiking shoes. But the teachers would wear their high heels and they would walk to school in their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their high heels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In their high heels or in their flats or in their, um. Me Ma Bokong had, had, uh. [phone rings] Let me turn this phone off, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll pause this. I think we're back on again. We are. So we were talking about the shoes that teachers wore and that your host mother wore too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To she wore her house slippers because her, her feet bothered her. And you can imagine her feet bothered her if she'd been wearing high heels to the, to her mountain school all these years. She walked two miles to school and two miles back and never complained about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Image. And so. You'd go to a, you'd walk to the school in your Nike's. You'd get there and what do you find? What's the, the school is an elementary school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.821657120958996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To she wore her house slippers because her, her feet bothered her. And you can imagine her feet bothered her if she'd been wearing high heels to the, to her mountain school all these years. She walked two miles to school and two miles back and never complained about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Image. And so. You'd go to a, you'd walk to the school in your Nike's. You'd get there and what do you find? What's the, the school is an elementary school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were all elementary schools and I would change from my Nike's to my nice, my nice shoes and, uh, and my hair was in a handkerchief, you know, a kerchief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.\n\nAnd then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when they came into the capital city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.468507912176662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were all elementary schools and I would change from my Nike's to my nice, my nice shoes and, uh, and my hair was in a handkerchief, you know, a kerchief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.\n\nAnd then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when they came into the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight grade, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.187231013529624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wore it all different ways. And some of the schools had, were big and crowded and others of them barely had any students at all, depending on how close to the road they were. So if they were a village that was close to the road. In, uh, seven years before I got there, Lesotho had changed from a private elementary school to public elementary, universal elementary school, so the classrooms had gone from six children to 100 children. So they were trying to figure. So they just pulled teachers off the streets with no training.\n\nAnd then the program that I worked for was called DTEP, Distance Teacher Education Program, that during the teacher's summer and Christmas breaks when they had a full month off, they would come to the Lesotho College of Education and they would do courses in social studies, mathematics, science, I think women's studies or developmental studies, developmental studies and education. And I taught English education and social studies. And those were huge lecture halls. And we taught from a text and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when they came into the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight grade, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eighth grade graduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in their schools they were, how many kids in a classroom? Or would that vary also?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.9858122372551374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And they just wanted to know what was going to be on the test. So it wasn't, wasn't an ideal situation, but it was the most education that they'd gotten since eighth grade. Most of them were eighth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight grade, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eighth grade graduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in their schools they were, how many kids in a classroom? Or would that vary also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would vary. The biggest one that I, I have a picture of a class that had. More than one picture of a class, of a school that had 100 kids, but they had four teachers teaching simultaneously, you know, like maybe 25 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In separate rooms?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.95447494822378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all in the same room. They were just, you know, these students would be facing east and these students would be facing west and these students would be facing. And the, you know, they're all trying, they're all focused on their teacher and trying to understand what she's saying. And sometimes the teachers would coordinate kind of a quiet activity, having the children read over here, of all these children are being lectured to. But sometimes all four teachers were lecturing at once and the students are trying to help one another, so they're a little bit noisy. They were really, there were essentially no discipline problems in school. The kids just loved going to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And their idea of being educated was to be very quiet. They didn't always understand what the teacher was saying, especially since they didn't have a good program from transition from English to Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So some of the children, especially the girls, were left behind almost immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The teachers were speaking English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.301820923733063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So some of the children, especially the girls, were left behind almost immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The teachers were speaking English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did speak English. And sometimes I wondered, was it just because I was there? And if that was the case, I could tell immediately because the students weren't used to English being spoken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But generally, you know, by at least fourth and fifth grade, they were, they were supposed to be teaching in English all the time. And since kids helped one another, they, you know. They, they, it was an immersion, it was an immersion English program. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what sort of materials would the teacher? Was there a chalkboard and chalk, were the textbooks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.224245470814514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did speak English. And sometimes I wondered, was it just because I was there? And if that was the case, I could tell immediately because the students weren't used to English being spoken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But generally, you know, by at least fourth and fifth grade, they were, they were supposed to be teaching in English all the time. And since kids helped one another, they, you know. They, they, it was an immersion, it was an immersion English program. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what sort of materials would the teacher? Was there a chalkboard and chalk, were the textbooks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, the teacher had a textbook. The kids either didn't have them or else they were a set of textbooks kept in the principal's office under lock and key, would only be taken out on special occasions and were at all costs supposed to be kept clean. That was more important than anyone would even use them. There were very few teachers that used textbooks, the classroom set, every day. They might use them once a week, and they might only use the science textbooks once a week. They wouldn't use all the textbooks once a week. And they had a chalkboard. But the chalkboards needed to be painted with a resurfacing, which costs like $50. That would have been one of the best gifts for schools to get. That you take the chalk and it wouldn't stick to the board. It just slides off because it's so, so useless.\n\nYeah, the kids didn't have little things themselves. The kids were supposed to have a pencil and the teachers would frequently send them home to get their pencil if they forgot it. They were tired of hearing the kids forgot their pencil because the, the Department of Education issued them a pencil or two pencils and a notebook at the beginning of the school year, and they were told that they were responsible for their pencils. And there would be boxes of pencils locked up under the key, but they would still make the kid go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go home and get that pencil."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.153389470141375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, the teacher had a textbook. The kids either didn't have them or else they were a set of textbooks kept in the principal's office under lock and key, would only be taken out on special occasions and were at all costs supposed to be kept clean. That was more important than anyone would even use them. There were very few teachers that used textbooks, the classroom set, every day. They might use them once a week, and they might only use the science textbooks once a week. They wouldn't use all the textbooks once a week. And they had a chalkboard. But the chalkboards needed to be painted with a resurfacing, which costs like $50. That would have been one of the best gifts for schools to get. That you take the chalk and it wouldn't stick to the board. It just slides off because it's so, so useless.\n\nYeah, the kids didn't have little things themselves. The kids were supposed to have a pencil and the teachers would frequently send them home to get their pencil if they forgot it. They were tired of hearing the kids forgot their pencil because the, the Department of Education issued them a pencil or two pencils and a notebook at the beginning of the school year, and they were told that they were responsible for their pencils. And there would be boxes of pencils locked up under the key, but they would still make the kid go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go home and get that pencil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would miss, of course, the whole day of school, you know, because they, the kids walked miles to school. They, they really walked. Teachers walked. It's not quite like Nepal, like a walking country, but it's, there are just not roads or people can't afford motorized transportation to, to places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the teachers were expected to teach their children some math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a curriculum. There was a national curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And the social studies, maybe map reading?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.485666012520216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a curriculum. There was a national curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And the social studies, maybe map reading?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no one knew what a map was, including the teachers. Yeah. What was social studies? Um, social studies was that people have different jobs. Some people are farmers, some people are, you know, they would talk about the jobs in the city or that there are cities and there are country people or. Yeah. And we get, we depend on animals for our food, we have. They would draw a map of Lesotho. Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, it was not a, a thrilling curriculum. So I did really learn how inferior, you know, you might have a millennium challenge goal to have all children have eighth grade or six years of schooling. But that does not mean that sixth grade, a sixth grader in America does what a sixth grader in Lesotho does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So seeing how inferior education was, and then the kids would be, might be a couple of years behind. And then high school, which started at eighth grade, was a fee based."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would it be a boarding school? To go to high school, did they have to spend a week someplace else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.206295569466906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no one knew what a map was, including the teachers. Yeah. What was social studies? Um, social studies was that people have different jobs. Some people are farmers, some people are, you know, they would talk about the jobs in the city or that there are cities and there are country people or. Yeah. And we get, we depend on animals for our food, we have. They would draw a map of Lesotho. Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, it was not a, a thrilling curriculum. So I did really learn how inferior, you know, you might have a millennium challenge goal to have all children have eighth grade or six years of schooling. But that does not mean that sixth grade, a sixth grader in America does what a sixth grader in Lesotho does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So seeing how inferior education was, and then the kids would be, might be a couple of years behind. And then high school, which started at eighth grade, was a fee based."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would it be a boarding school? To go to high school, did they have to spend a week someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some were boarding schools. The one up the hill from me was pretty much a boarding school. Some kids walked, but a lot of kids were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if it was fee based, only those who had money could send their children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.784772854963229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So seeing how inferior education was, and then the kids would be, might be a couple of years behind. And then high school, which started at eighth grade, was a fee based."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would it be a boarding school? To go to high school, did they have to spend a week someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some were boarding schools. The one up the hill from me was pretty much a boarding school. Some kids walked, but a lot of kids were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if it was fee based, only those who had money could send their children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it's pretty, I've been paying $416 a year for a couple of kids to go to school. But that, that's a chunk. You know, even just for me, $400 a year for a couple of kids and so on. It's almost imaginable, unimaginable, how kids. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a sacrifice for them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0941920610702547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some were boarding schools. The one up the hill from me was pretty much a boarding school. Some kids walked, but a lot of kids were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if it was fee based, only those who had money could send their children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it's pretty, I've been paying $416 a year for a couple of kids to go to school. But that, that's a chunk. You know, even just for me, $400 a year for a couple of kids and so on. It's almost imaginable, unimaginable, how kids. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a sacrifice for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was like, you know, really just such a small group of kids, less than 50 percent, maybe like 20 percent went to high school and then half of those didn't pass. The passing grade is like 20 percent or 30 percent. They were really low standards, but still kids didn't pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm trying to imagine what, I'm trying to imagine being you and arriving at the school and walking in the classroom door. What on earth do you do? What? Um. You want to move the teacher a little bit in a new direction somehow. But the teacher has virtually nothing to work with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4379911789669495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it's pretty, I've been paying $416 a year for a couple of kids to go to school. But that, that's a chunk. You know, even just for me, $400 a year for a couple of kids and so on. It's almost imaginable, unimaginable, how kids. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a sacrifice for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was like, you know, really just such a small group of kids, less than 50 percent, maybe like 20 percent went to high school and then half of those didn't pass. The passing grade is like 20 percent or 30 percent. They were really low standards, but still kids didn't pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm trying to imagine what, I'm trying to imagine being you and arriving at the school and walking in the classroom door. What on earth do you do? What? Um. You want to move the teacher a little bit in a new direction somehow. But the teacher has virtually nothing to work with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your, how did you see your role and what did you do with your time in that during? You'd be there for a couple of hours and then you'd go away unless you were spending the night. What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.133322443169073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your, how did you see your role and what did you do with your time in that during? You'd be there for a couple of hours and then you'd go away unless you were spending the night. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you're. You've kind of hit on it in that I didn't have an extensive exposure to the teacher, so my longest exposure would be when they came to campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Maseru. And we weren't able to do enough of what we wanted to do. We wanted to show the teachers how teaching can be done. But the way the curriculum was focused was just kind of questions and answers and, you know, the test was coming up next week. So they had to cram through their 12 chapters of social studies or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the teachers' point of view, what the reason they were going into Maseru for your classes was to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.48146938129897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you're. You've kind of hit on it in that I didn't have an extensive exposure to the teacher, so my longest exposure would be when they came to campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Maseru. And we weren't able to do enough of what we wanted to do. We wanted to show the teachers how teaching can be done. But the way the curriculum was focused was just kind of questions and answers and, you know, the test was coming up next week. So they had to cram through their 12 chapters of social studies or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the teachers' point of view, what the reason they were going into Maseru for your classes was to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get their degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do test prep."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2981103472826785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get their degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do test prep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. They'd get their degree and then their salary would go up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were very motivated, um, but we wanted to show them more techniques so we would have these kind of little education fairs and we would invite all of the, the, um, teachers, Peace Corps volunteers, to help us. But it was, it was, those were optional. And so they were so-so attended. Some of them were well attended and people were interested. They would attend something once, but that was cutting into their free time. And that was my big chance for, for making different points. And what I would try to do at that point was to teach, demonstrate the way I taught, instead of lecture to them, have them do pair work or, you know. And then say, now your kids won't be doing pair work about development studies, but they can do pair work about many things, like what's an example, what kind of pair work could you do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you have to get them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.084086848497134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were very motivated, um, but we wanted to show them more techniques so we would have these kind of little education fairs and we would invite all of the, the, um, teachers, Peace Corps volunteers, to help us. But it was, it was, those were optional. And so they were so-so attended. Some of them were well attended and people were interested. They would attend something once, but that was cutting into their free time. And that was my big chance for, for making different points. And what I would try to do at that point was to teach, demonstrate the way I taught, instead of lecture to them, have them do pair work or, you know. And then say, now your kids won't be doing pair work about development studies, but they can do pair work about many things, like what's an example, what kind of pair work could you do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you have to get them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But still, this is 100 people, you know, that you're, that you're, that you're working with. But anyway, yeah, so that was my biggest chance. When I came to see them, they were usually just really, really frightened because I was supposed to, quote, evaluate them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So to relax them, the first, the first time, I would just try to be a human being and I would really try to see what they were doing. You know, you can't really evaluate what you haven't yet seen. And then there was this funny thing that I would arrive in the evening or, you know, in the late afternoon. School would be out. And they would fix me dinner and then I would sleep with them in the same bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their home? Oh, in the same bed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1097447289485265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, kind of know your strengths. And then pretty soon they'd be just begging, well, tell me at least one thing I could do differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And on a separate sheet, more like for myself, I would have pages of notes of things that she could or should be doing, but I would try to pick like a game or something. And then I would try to, um, like I would give her immediate feedback because it was usually lunch time and the kids would be coming back in. So then in the afternoon I would try to do the games and show, you know, show her how she could do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And usually we either didn't have time to prepare exactly, but after a while I started taking vocabulary cards in sets of 20 in my backpack. So I'd say, well, let's, let's do the vocabulary, you know. And I would just. Didn't always work out because sometimes my teacher was a sixth grade teacher and sometimes was a second grade teacher and didn't always know in advance. But would try to make suggestions for those kind of things. And they thought those things were fun. But, you know, those were drop in the bucket kind of, you know, you don't really change your whole teaching philosophy with a, um, you know, one visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One visit. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.566383032165029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And on a separate sheet, more like for myself, I would have pages of notes of things that she could or should be doing, but I would try to pick like a game or something. And then I would try to, um, like I would give her immediate feedback because it was usually lunch time and the kids would be coming back in. So then in the afternoon I would try to do the games and show, you know, show her how she could do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And usually we either didn't have time to prepare exactly, but after a while I started taking vocabulary cards in sets of 20 in my backpack. So I'd say, well, let's, let's do the vocabulary, you know. And I would just. Didn't always work out because sometimes my teacher was a sixth grade teacher and sometimes was a second grade teacher and didn't always know in advance. But would try to make suggestions for those kind of things. And they thought those things were fun. But, you know, those were drop in the bucket kind of, you know, you don't really change your whole teaching philosophy with a, um, you know, one visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One visit. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, the idea of beating children, you know. Or what to do with naughty children, that kind of thing. We would talk about how good teaching eliminates discipline problems or how to use the kids' energy and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.07375892462781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And usually we either didn't have time to prepare exactly, but after a while I started taking vocabulary cards in sets of 20 in my backpack. So I'd say, well, let's, let's do the vocabulary, you know. And I would just. Didn't always work out because sometimes my teacher was a sixth grade teacher and sometimes was a second grade teacher and didn't always know in advance. But would try to make suggestions for those kind of things. And they thought those things were fun. But, you know, those were drop in the bucket kind of, you know, you don't really change your whole teaching philosophy with a, um, you know, one visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One visit. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, the idea of beating children, you know. Or what to do with naughty children, that kind of thing. We would talk about how good teaching eliminates discipline problems or how to use the kids' energy and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were awesome though. I so admired my teachers and I think my admiration really, really showed. And yeah, so people really looked forward to my visits and if I skipped someone for some reason, they were really hurt and insulted and wanted to know when I was going to do my makeup visit and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm guessing that all this came from within yourself, that Peace Corps training didn't teach you how to use this approach of focusing on the positive and all that. I think you brought that with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.637509916253122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, the idea of beating children, you know. Or what to do with naughty children, that kind of thing. We would talk about how good teaching eliminates discipline problems or how to use the kids' energy and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were awesome though. I so admired my teachers and I think my admiration really, really showed. And yeah, so people really looked forward to my visits and if I skipped someone for some reason, they were really hurt and insulted and wanted to know when I was going to do my makeup visit and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm guessing that all this came from within yourself, that Peace Corps training didn't teach you how to use this approach of focusing on the positive and all that. I think you brought that with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, somewhat. Somewhat. Although my friend Craig, I think he also was very, very positive with his teachers. You know, we didn't want to go in and be, and be hard ass. And it was hard, you know, in this kind of factory, factory education system. And what they really learned is they learned a lot from one another when they came to the campus. They would say, you know, I hate teaching science. How do you do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.9598887854976805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, somewhat. Somewhat. Although my friend Craig, I think he also was very, very positive with his teachers. You know, we didn't want to go in and be, and be hard ass. And it was hard, you know, in this kind of factory, factory education system. And what they really learned is they learned a lot from one another when they came to the campus. They would say, you know, I hate teaching science. How do you do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then someone would say, oh, I've got this really good lesson. I went to one science lesson and it was like how detergent keeps, gets your clothes clean. And this was kind of the before and the after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I just sort of. Things were so basic, you know, I never thought of that as, you know, like, well, it definitely is science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right. In the laundry room. Did Peace Corps come up and visit you, or Peace Corps staff, to see how you were doing, find out what you needed, help you any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.622098650552978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then someone would say, oh, I've got this really good lesson. I went to one science lesson and it was like how detergent keeps, gets your clothes clean. And this was kind of the before and the after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I just sort of. Things were so basic, you know, I never thought of that as, you know, like, well, it definitely is science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right. In the laundry room. Did Peace Corps come up and visit you, or Peace Corps staff, to see how you were doing, find out what you needed, help you any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, but they never. They were never willing to hike 3 hours to see me at one of my schools. So I can't remember whether they ever did that. They had to do it kind of when it was convenient for them. They had, they had to see several people on the road so they would see the couple down, you know, 20 miles down after me. So they would spend like a couple of hours with me and then a couple. So usually I remember when they happened to come, I would be in my rondavel and they would talk to Me Ma Bokong, and they would talk to me either separately or together. And I might sit down and tell them how things were going, but I don't think they really saw me at work that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you questions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.357887389503309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I just sort of. Things were so basic, you know, I never thought of that as, you know, like, well, it definitely is science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right. In the laundry room. Did Peace Corps come up and visit you, or Peace Corps staff, to see how you were doing, find out what you needed, help you any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, but they never. They were never willing to hike 3 hours to see me at one of my schools. So I can't remember whether they ever did that. They had to do it kind of when it was convenient for them. They had, they had to see several people on the road so they would see the couple down, you know, 20 miles down after me. So they would spend like a couple of hours with me and then a couple. So usually I remember when they happened to come, I would be in my rondavel and they would talk to Me Ma Bokong, and they would talk to me either separately or together. And I might sit down and tell them how things were going, but I don't think they really saw me at work that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they offer to help with, uh, how could they have helped?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.175430432781454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, but they never. They were never willing to hike 3 hours to see me at one of my schools. So I can't remember whether they ever did that. They had to do it kind of when it was convenient for them. They had, they had to see several people on the road so they would see the couple down, you know, 20 miles down after me. So they would spend like a couple of hours with me and then a couple. So usually I remember when they happened to come, I would be in my rondavel and they would talk to Me Ma Bokong, and they would talk to me either separately or together. And I might sit down and tell them how things were going, but I don't think they really saw me at work that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they offer to help with, uh, how could they have helped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, you know, as much as, as much as they could help they did, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it, was there any, was there ever discussion of Peace Corps somehow procuring funds to get that chalkboard, paint the blackboard?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.083811591979392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they offer to help with, uh, how could they have helped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, you know, as much as, as much as they could help they did, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it, was there any, was there ever discussion of Peace Corps somehow procuring funds to get that chalkboard, paint the blackboard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or chalk or notebooks or pencils or? It wasn't providing materials?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.583179379802182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did that. We probably did that in 4 to 6 places, and that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds wonderful. So. So you're in contact with other Peace Corps volunteers and that sort of setting. For the, I get the sense that for the most part, you are quite alone in your site up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a wonderful volunteer named Sarah. She was probably still in her twenties, maybe upper twenties, who was up the hill at the high school, who taught English at the high school. And I would go up there every time my computer needed charging, because it would run on batteries for 2 hours and I would do all the writing I could for 2 hours, and then I would go up and charge it. And then while I was up there, I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because she had electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had electricity and somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.203532644224647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a wonderful volunteer named Sarah. She was probably still in her twenties, maybe upper twenties, who was up the hill at the high school, who taught English at the high school. And I would go up there every time my computer needed charging, because it would run on batteries for 2 hours and I would do all the writing I could for 2 hours, and then I would go up and charge it. And then while I was up there, I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because she had electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had electricity and somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did she? It seemed like I, no, I wouldn't answer my email until I was back in, uh, at headquarters in Maseru that had computer, computers we could use. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you get into Maseru?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.892814049138496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had electricity and somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did she? It seemed like I, no, I wouldn't answer my email until I was back in, uh, at headquarters in Maseru that had computer, computers we could use. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you get into Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe once every six weeks or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, that's a long space in between."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7071778384425875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe once every six weeks or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, that's a long space in between."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I went to Sarah's a couple of times a week and then she was Catholic and across the ravine from me was a Catholic church. I never would have gone to it if it hadn't been for Sarah, just because I haven't been raised with any kind of religion. And, um, but she really wanted to go to service. And there's a really long service that lasted from 10:00 until 1:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was sort of the short service from 8:00 to 9:00, although sometimes it would be 8:00 to 9:30. So we would go, we established a tradition of going to church and then we would fix ourself a really nice Sunday dinner. That was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That keeps you sane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0079753760473196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I went to Sarah's a couple of times a week and then she was Catholic and across the ravine from me was a Catholic church. I never would have gone to it if it hadn't been for Sarah, just because I haven't been raised with any kind of religion. And, um, but she really wanted to go to service. And there's a really long service that lasted from 10:00 until 1:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was sort of the short service from 8:00 to 9:00, although sometimes it would be 8:00 to 9:30. So we would go, we established a tradition of going to church and then we would fix ourself a really nice Sunday dinner. That was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That keeps you sane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah.\n\nSo she was, she was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any way to, um, listen to music or did you have books to read or things just to maintain your own sanity when you had time alone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3421948622747997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was sort of the short service from 8:00 to 9:00, although sometimes it would be 8:00 to 9:30. So we would go, we established a tradition of going to church and then we would fix ourself a really nice Sunday dinner. That was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That keeps you sane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah.\n\nSo she was, she was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any way to, um, listen to music or did you have books to read or things just to maintain your own sanity when you had time alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was the only volunteer that came without a music system. They were having the MP3 players had just come out. Everyone had one of those and they had tons of music and they had headphones. But I just didn't get into the MP3 players. I didn't lug a cassette tape. I didn't have solar powered speakers or players or. But I read, yeah, I read like 150 books during my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the books?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0150553855244437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was the only volunteer that came without a music system. They were having the MP3 players had just come out. Everyone had one of those and they had tons of music and they had headphones. But I just didn't get into the MP3 players. I didn't lug a cassette tape. I didn't have solar powered speakers or players or. But I read, yeah, I read like 150 books during my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a wonderful library at the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could just go to Maseru and you would come back with six books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd bring back the six books that you read before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.350061539471604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a wonderful library at the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could just go to Maseru and you would come back with six books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd bring back the six books that you read before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds terrific. And your health throughout these, wait a second. You extended for a third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.722290599412893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could just go to Maseru and you would come back with six books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd bring back the six books that you read before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds terrific. And your health throughout these, wait a second. You extended for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that? How did that come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.1358784437921035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds terrific. And your health throughout these, wait a second. You extended for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that? How did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we haven't talked about HIV at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let's talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1419827295825926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if they were HIV positive, they didn't want to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because as soon as they knew, neighbors discriminated against them. Parents didn't want their teachers, their students to be their teacher. No one would play with their children. It would get around. No one would sleep with them anymore. They would lose their love life. Their husband would leave them. Uh, you know, the fact that the husband had given them AIDS in the first place was irrelevant. But yeah, it was still a totally, totally taboo subject.\n\nAnd so our Peace Corps doctor, a wonderful man, Dr. Johnson, told us, and the education volunteers were working on science and social studies and stuff. He says, if you aren't devoting your time in Lesotho to HIV AIDS prevention, you're wasting your time here. This is no time to be, you know, doing vocabulary games and this kind of thing. You should be, you should be on the front lines. So all of us started working more with life skills, both for teachers, because teachers were supposed to be teaching it and they weren't. And teachers are supposed to be telling students how AIDS is transmitted, HIV is transmitted, and they weren't. And so we had to start focusing more on that. And the teachers were really interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So getting the teachers to, to understand what, what's a myth and what's fact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would be really critical."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.912194824228075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then I did go to seven funerals. Not all of them were teachers who died of AIDS, but all of them were teachers. Plus the little orphan behind, behind me who also died of AIDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, yeah, I was getting into it, and all of us in my cohort were affected by funerals that we went to. We went to, to funerals. And they were very emotional. The Basotho allowed themselves to be emotional only at a funeral. Other than that, it was stiff upper lip and God wanted him to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "God's will."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's God's will so. How are we doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've got about 20 minutes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.569105360253416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, yeah, I was getting into it, and all of us in my cohort were affected by funerals that we went to. We went to, to funerals. And they were very emotional. The Basotho allowed themselves to be emotional only at a funeral. Other than that, it was stiff upper lip and God wanted him to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "God's will."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's God's will so. How are we doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've got about 20 minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do want to talk with you about, um, why you chose to stay a third year. I want to talk with you about your, your work as Peace Corps staff after your three years as a volunteer ended. And I'm wondering if you want to talk a little bit about the very difficult situation of taking care of the orphaned child."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.187894844726017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's God's will so. How are we doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've got about 20 minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do want to talk with you about, um, why you chose to stay a third year. I want to talk with you about your, your work as Peace Corps staff after your three years as a volunteer ended. And I'm wondering if you want to talk a little bit about the very difficult situation of taking care of the orphaned child."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. All those are. The orphaned child, the orphaned child is kind of a 20 minute story just by herself. But yeah, my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go beyond 20 minutes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.52826524040249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. All those are. The orphaned child, the orphaned child is kind of a 20 minute story just by herself. But yeah, my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go beyond 20 minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Me wanted me to become active in the lives of these two little girls who are orphans who lived behind me. And maybe because I don't have children, or maybe because they were young girls, my heart really went out to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of them was running around with the taxi drivers and was going not only to Maseru but all the way to Johannesburg, and somehow wasn't pregnant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was working in the sex trade?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.253628044891656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Me wanted me to become active in the lives of these two little girls who are orphans who lived behind me. And maybe because I don't have children, or maybe because they were young girls, my heart really went out to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of them was running around with the taxi drivers and was going not only to Maseru but all the way to Johannesburg, and somehow wasn't pregnant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was working in the sex trade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, more like sex in the back seat in exchange for a cell phone, or sex in the backseat. It was more like she called these people her boyfriends, you know, they would kind of pass her around. And so she was a little bit over my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was how old?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.140281536903279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, more like sex in the back seat in exchange for a cell phone, or sex in the backseat. It was more like she called these people her boyfriends, you know, they would kind of pass her around. And so she was a little bit over my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was how old?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was maybe 16. But her sister, who was 14, was smaller and sweeter. And both of them had had parents who had had AIDS and had been out of school for three or four years caring for their parents full time. First their father died and then their mother died. The father had worked in the mines. And so one of my biggest accomplishments was getting the younger one who was gently into school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to find a school uniform for her, and then I had to talk to the teacher and then they put her in the sixth grade. But the last time she'd been in school, she was second grade, so she didn't have those skills. So every week they would demote her and I would try to tutor her. And, you know, it was, it was a lot of fun. So she would come to my house after school for tutoring every day, and all the other children would come. I would kind of have, uh, Me Lerato, I was Me Lerato."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, explain that name."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.600312818781421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was maybe 16. But her sister, who was 14, was smaller and sweeter. And both of them had had parents who had had AIDS and had been out of school for three or four years caring for their parents full time. First their father died and then their mother died. The father had worked in the mines. And so one of my biggest accomplishments was getting the younger one who was gently into school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to find a school uniform for her, and then I had to talk to the teacher and then they put her in the sixth grade. But the last time she'd been in school, she was second grade, so she didn't have those skills. So every week they would demote her and I would try to tutor her. And, you know, it was, it was a lot of fun. So she would come to my house after school for tutoring every day, and all the other children would come. I would kind of have, uh, Me Lerato, I was Me Lerato."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, explain that name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Me Lerato means love. It was a common name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the name that your villagers gave to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.111458687534912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to find a school uniform for her, and then I had to talk to the teacher and then they put her in the sixth grade. But the last time she'd been in school, she was second grade, so she didn't have those skills. So every week they would demote her and I would try to tutor her. And, you know, it was, it was a lot of fun. So she would come to my house after school for tutoring every day, and all the other children would come. I would kind of have, uh, Me Lerato, I was Me Lerato."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, explain that name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Me Lerato means love. It was a common name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the name that your villagers gave to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. So. So it was, it was a common name. Yeah. They, the names were like love or hope or courage for the boys, or intelligence for the boys, obedient for the girls. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these two sisters who, who did they live with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.3104428241171755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. So. So it was, it was a common name. Yeah. They, the names were like love or hope or courage for the boys, or intelligence for the boys, obedient for the girls. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these two sisters who, who did they live with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They lived alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a grandmother who had some younger children. So they were the grandmothers' daughters' children. And the grandmother had, the son had also died of AIDS. So she also had his children who were younger. And the grandmother would come around sometimes and wanting to know, how could I buy a pair of shoes for this kid, or could I buy some pants for this kid? And yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, if somebody asked, somebody was desperately poor, asked you if you could buy them a pair of shoes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.91281594529105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, we weren't supposed to do that. That's not sustainable practice. But I remember this lady came. She was, she was. I didn't even know who brought her, but someone brought her who I didn't even know who it was. And this lady just said, you know, I'm, I'm sore, I need to get to the hospital. It cost 30 rand, which would have been like $5, you know, to go to the hospital. Could you please give me 30 rand? And I did, really reluctantly. You know, if you're going to give money, you should give it generously and with a good heart. But I gave it reluctantly. And then I just sat there and I went like, now there'll be a line of them. People will come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone needs to go, you know. And no one ever came again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time I was there. And then I've always been so glad I helped this woman get to the hospital. How many $5 have I wasted on a cup of coffee and a, and a bagel? I'm so happy that, you know, they were almost cried. You know, they were just so happy that money had fallen out of the sky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made it possible to get help. So back to Dently."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.281702944951239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I had enlisted six volunteers, you know, trying to keep Dently alive and her family. And, yeah, it was, it was a big effort, but it was, you know, it was just seeing a child go downhill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. She, her AIDS was already too far. She was fourth stage AIDS by the time she, by the time she got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm reminded that I did read that story and that you wrote public letters maybe once a month from Lesotho that we then got to read because you'd put them up online."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.090781049945821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. She, her AIDS was already too far. She was fourth stage AIDS by the time she, by the time she got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm reminded that I did read that story and that you wrote public letters maybe once a month from Lesotho that we then got to read because you'd put them up online."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm hoping that you can give those, that you'd consider giving those public letters to the JFK Library."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.989756722162024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm reminded that I did read that story and that you wrote public letters maybe once a month from Lesotho that we then got to read because you'd put them up online."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm hoping that you can give those, that you'd consider giving those public letters to the JFK Library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perhaps at some point, I'll try to make that happen. They're beautifully written."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.098465089088918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perhaps at some point, I'll try to make that happen. They're beautifully written."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They're all on the web now, so actually you could just put up a link to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are 20 letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you stayed an extra year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.05076215250407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington. And they had a division called OPAT, which is Overseas Programing and Training. And they said, you have a background in teaching English. We're going to roll out an English curriculum for all of the countries, and we're going to, we're going to make these Peace Corps people start teaching English better. And so anyway, I worked with another person on that program who is really well respected all over the nation. He had all of the credentials. And I did more of the Peace Corps part of it, you know, setting up Peace Corps, I don't know. Headquarters was a lot of paperwork, and teaching English wasn't really my focus. I didn't really want to be doing that as a next career move. I mean, this was just a perfect opportunity if you wanted to be an expert in teaching English, to have this on your resume. But I was going more for that international development thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I applied again for the director of programing and training and someone said, you know, just be patient. Eventually there will be, there will be an opening in Africa. And in retrospect, I do wish I had waited, but I took the first one that came along, which was Turkmenistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and so I went off to a country that was completely non-African, completely I had no background in Central Asia history, language, you know, everything I'm reading, you're reading, but State Department people do that too. They get these huge fact sheets and they cram like, like crazy. And then I went to a country that was within my two years of being there would be phased out, that the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps would be phased out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.887656272763415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had many rules that applied to all the people in the, in their, their country, but applied to us too, that n more than five people can meet, can assemble at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if five Peace Corps people, volunteers, came from their site to meet in town to have a beer or a cup of coffee and a sixth person came, then he was supposed to sit over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someplace else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At someplace else because five foreigners are so conspicuous in town that someone would report it to the police, right? So anyway, it was very. I hadn't been accustomed to that kind of, that kind of totalitarian government with curfews and everything either. But it was, it was very interesting. And so one year I lived in a rondavel, and less than a year later I lived in a five story luxury apartment across from the American Embassy compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Peace Corps staff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.875173636403794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if five Peace Corps people, volunteers, came from their site to meet in town to have a beer or a cup of coffee and a sixth person came, then he was supposed to sit over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someplace else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At someplace else because five foreigners are so conspicuous in town that someone would report it to the police, right? So anyway, it was very. I hadn't been accustomed to that kind of, that kind of totalitarian government with curfews and everything either. But it was, it was very interesting. And so one year I lived in a rondavel, and less than a year later I lived in a five story luxury apartment across from the American Embassy compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As Peace Corps staff. So yeah, of the two experiences being a volunteer and being a staff, I really loved being a volunteer. It had so much freedom. And every night I would just think so hard. Like, I have all this education, I have all these contacts, I have fundraising experience, I'm in this village. Like, what if people said, you know, Madeline Uraneck, you can eliminate poverty, go to it! You know, we'll give you seven years or 15 years or, you know, you're educated, do it. Use every bit of education you have or, you know, use it to improve this one school or something like that.\n\nAnd I went like, God, these are such a worthy things to think about. You know, no paper that I ever wrote in college, you know, gave you the big questions. You know, how does poverty develop? How do you get rid of it? How do you create good education in a, in a country where, you know, you have a blank slate, where you just have 100 kids in a room and no books?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And lots of myths."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.453998913150835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And I went off to Kyrgyzstan. They were short, they were short of staff. Their DPT had left early, so I filled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "DPT was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The director of programing and training, the same job that I had working with all the volunteers, working with all the native trainers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To make sure that they were doing the training. They had some really creative things going on. They had some, a fantastic country director. It was really different than Turkmenistan. Turkmenistan was kind of in a low and, you know, I came in and tried to be really positive. But Kyrgyzstan was just 90 miles an hour, you know, and they wanted me to be as good as their last DPT, which I was trying to catch up to speed or something like that. They could have hired me and I could have stayed, but they didn't hire me. Then I went back to, uh, I went back to Turkmenistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wait a minute. You were in Kyrgyzstan for how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:671", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.023629929100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just met amazing people. Loved, loved every bit of it. I would have stayed, but I just didn't. I didn't, I don't think I got enough. I don't think I got a say in it. I think some decisions were made. I don't know. They wanted Joe instead or, you know, sometimes you don't know why you weren't chosen for something or another, but that was that. And then I came back to Turkmenistan, and then I decided to leave. I had an opportunity to, to, uh. Let's see, Turkmenistan. I had an opportunity to travel in Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Iran bordered Turkmenistan. I could see it. It was 15 miles from my kitchen window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was not allowed on my Peace Corps contract or U.S. government contract to travel to Iran because we, it was one of the countries in the front of the passport that you can't travel to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a, as an employee of the U.S. government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.248477699000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Iran bordered Turkmenistan. I could see it. It was 15 miles from my kitchen window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was not allowed on my Peace Corps contract or U.S. government contract to travel to Iran because we, it was one of the countries in the front of the passport that you can't travel to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a, as an employee of the U.S. government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. And, you know, they were kidnapping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But ordinary people could go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:683", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Peace Corps has this ridiculous rule that if you're in Peace Corps as staff for four years, then you have to be out of Peace Corps staff for four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'd been in for, I don't know, two and a half years, so I was going to have to be out for two and a half years. So I came back to Wisconsin and then Wisconsin has just kind of taken over. I started writing and I'm really enjoying that, so I'm going to pursue that for a little bit. But I do think that DPT is one of the most incredible jobs. I've had so many incredible jobs, and it's just as good as, uh, my job was at the Department of Public Instruction. It doesn't have the freedom to create everything new, but it does have this amazing opportunity to see the world because, you know, you're, you're doing this. And then all the DPTs meet in Mongolia and then they have to have another conference in Thailand and then they have to go back to Washington, D.C. And that might all happen in one year or a space of two years. And then you use your vacation you, whenever you change countries, you're in a completely different configuration of countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when you're in Turkmenistan, then all of a sudden you realize you could see, you could visit Tajikistan, you know, which is right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So do you think you might, um, get back into that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when you're in Turkmenistan, then all of a sudden you realize you could see, you could visit Tajikistan, you know, which is right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So do you think you might, um, get back into that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would love to. The thing is, is that in an international development field, writing books, which is what I'm doing now, working on two books, doesn't position me in international relations, that the books aren't about international relations. So I don't know whether I would be competitive enough. In all fairness, I think, I think I could do the job. But they're always younger, more energetic, blah, blah, blah. So I'll, I'll. I would, I would consider it. And I do see the job openings come by and I do have a couple of friends that I envy so much, who were my colleagues at the time, but now they've done all those conferences and they've been reassigned to all those countries. And my next country would have been Uganda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I, every time I hear the word Uganda, I kind of go, oh my God, I could, I could be there. I could have known that. But I don't know there's, that's part of living. It's like, be where you are, be fully where you are. And if you're going to spend time regretting what you're not doing, it means you're not fully where you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:689", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would love to. The thing is, is that in an international development field, writing books, which is what I'm doing now, working on two books, doesn't position me in international relations, that the books aren't about international relations. So I don't know whether I would be competitive enough. In all fairness, I think, I think I could do the job. But they're always younger, more energetic, blah, blah, blah. So I'll, I'll. I would, I would consider it. And I do see the job openings come by and I do have a couple of friends that I envy so much, who were my colleagues at the time, but now they've done all those conferences and they've been reassigned to all those countries. And my next country would have been Uganda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I, every time I hear the word Uganda, I kind of go, oh my God, I could, I could be there. I could have known that. But I don't know there's, that's part of living. It's like, be where you are, be fully where you are. And if you're going to spend time regretting what you're not doing, it means you're not fully where you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been trying to be fully where I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're in a beautiful place. Do you have any last thoughts about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00005:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I, every time I hear the word Uganda, I kind of go, oh my God, I could, I could be there. I could have known that. But I don't know there's, that's part of living. It's like, be where you are, be fully where you are. And if you're going to spend time regretting what you're not doing, it means you're not fully where you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been trying to be fully where I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're in a beautiful place. Do you have any last thoughts about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved the Peace Corps. I'm a great poster child for older people going into Peace Corps. I think going in with as much experience as I had was good for Peace Corps and good for carrying out what I carry out. So I do talk to a lot of people who are older and advise them definitely to consider doing that. From Peace Corps' point of view, I see, I see our problems. We're much more opinionated and, uh, slower language learners, and some people insist on giving young people advice. Don't catch on to, you know, that kind of relationship. But, but in general, I just think it's a wonderful, wonderful thing to do with your life at any time and certainly when you're older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Madeline."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00659:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a lot of things after sims and flights at the Gilruth Center, so the Gilruth Center was a place. There were a couple places where in town people would go. Bill and Marie’s [Ice House] and some other places, the Outpost [Tavern]. There were places where the teams would get together periodically and they would move around. I don’t think we had any one in particular. Some flight directors would order burritos from a certain place for the whole team, and we would eat burritos.\\n\\n There was that sense of doing things together, and certain locations to go together. It’s maybe the flight test mentality, the test pilot mentality, of going someplace to just kick back and do some things that you wouldn’t normally do. Get a chance also to tweak each other a little bit and do pranks on each other. We used to do that periodically even in the building with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you over in Building 4?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember when Dick Truly flew, they recycled a bunch of his official astronaut pictures, so they put them out in the hall in a stack to be disposed of. We took his pictures—and he was in an EVA [extravehicular activity] suit—and we took his head and his arms. We took all the clocks, and where the arms were on the clocks we put his arms from the spacesuit on, and we put his head in the middle. We changed all the clocks in Building 4 to have Dick Truly’s head and arms on every clock in Building 4. I remember that as being pretty humorous when Dick came in the next day. Every meeting he went to, there he was on the wall on the clock with his arms and his head, courtesy of the pictures they were throwing away from upstairs. We did silly things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we’re coming close to the end of our time today, so unless there’s anything else you’d like to talk about this might be a good stopping point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00329:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 42.04126000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened was that I was interviewed in Chicago, and I received an offer to work for them, and that was as a GS-14 [General Schedule, pay scale], which was supposed to be a pretty good rank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that better than that University of Chicago professor job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was better. What shocked me was the University of Chicago had a fine reputation, but to offer me that small an amount of money. Now maybe the professor who offered it to me wondered why I turned it down, but I felt that wasn't enough money to satisfy anything. I've talked with doctors since, and they said it's true, the salaries for teachers at medical schools in those days were very low, but they've gone up and up and up since then. So they're probably very high now. But at that time, that's what it was. That was the reason I said no. But I felt NASA was just as interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you move right away from Chicago to the Hampton [Virginia] area when you got the offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I got the offer, I moved from Chicago to Newport News [Virginia]. I stayed in Newport News for, it seems to me, a long time. Yes, until we moved to Houston. This area [reference to home address], first of all, is very close to Telephone Road. Telephone Road was where NASA engineering first started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you moved to Houston, did you spend a lot of hours working at Langley when you first started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00329:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.601400000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was better. What shocked me was the University of Chicago had a fine reputation, but to offer me that small an amount of money. Now maybe the professor who offered it to me wondered why I turned it down, but I felt that wasn't enough money to satisfy anything. I've talked with doctors since, and they said it's true, the salaries for teachers at medical schools in those days were very low, but they've gone up and up and up since then. So they're probably very high now. But at that time, that's what it was. That was the reason I said no. But I felt NASA was just as interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you move right away from Chicago to the Hampton [Virginia] area when you got the offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I got the offer, I moved from Chicago to Newport News [Virginia]. I stayed in Newport News for, it seems to me, a long time. Yes, until we moved to Houston. This area [reference to home address], first of all, is very close to Telephone Road. Telephone Road was where NASA engineering first started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you moved to Houston, did you spend a lot of hours working at Langley when you first started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been assigned positions representing Langley at McDonnell Aircraft and then at Downey [California]. That was at St. Louis, [Missouri], McDonnell, and then I think I spent a year there, and then I spent a year or two at Downey on the Apollo Program. But at the same time I was living—part of the time I was at Langley, my home base in Newport News, and then part of the time we'd moved and I was here in Houston, when I think I went to Downey.\\n\\n Originally, I am from Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was nice for you to be able to go to Harvard, because you were close to home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00329:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.446000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I got the offer, I moved from Chicago to Newport News [Virginia]. I stayed in Newport News for, it seems to me, a long time. Yes, until we moved to Houston. This area [reference to home address], first of all, is very close to Telephone Road. Telephone Road was where NASA engineering first started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you moved to Houston, did you spend a lot of hours working at Langley when you first started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been assigned positions representing Langley at McDonnell Aircraft and then at Downey [California]. That was at St. Louis, [Missouri], McDonnell, and then I think I spent a year there, and then I spent a year or two at Downey on the Apollo Program. But at the same time I was living—part of the time I was at Langley, my home base in Newport News, and then part of the time we'd moved and I was here in Houston, when I think I went to Downey.\\n\\n Originally, I am from Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was nice for you to be able to go to Harvard, because you were close to home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, that's right. But I didn't live at home, though, because I lived too far away. My family's home was too far from Cambridge, so I would live where the other students lived, in rooming houses in Cambridge. Meantime I had cousins who worked in Newton. They had their offices there, and they were practicing medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk at length about working with McDonnell in St. Louis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.1151615124768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's real easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it easy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually I preferred working, because most of the people I worked with were interesting, pretty smart, and very exhilarating to work with the scientists and outstanding engineers that they put on the programs. I miss that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back and talk about those first days when you came from New York to Hampton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first started here at NACA, I started working in the field of aircraft instrumentation. I became head of the local instrument calibration lab right after I came, which was in 1942. I headed the instrument calibration lab. Then in '49 I became head of a flight instrument design group, which essentially started to design instruments rather than just calibrate them. Then 1959 to '63 I headed the navigation and communication sections in instrument research division. Then in '63 to '67 I became Spacecraft Manager for Lunar Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Taback, let me ask you, when you came here what kind of experience did you bring? Were you right out of college, or did you have experience in your field before you got to NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.572401680529776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually I preferred working, because most of the people I worked with were interesting, pretty smart, and very exhilarating to work with the scientists and outstanding engineers that they put on the programs. I miss that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back and talk about those first days when you came from New York to Hampton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first started here at NACA, I started working in the field of aircraft instrumentation. I became head of the local instrument calibration lab right after I came, which was in 1942. I headed the instrument calibration lab. Then in '49 I became head of a flight instrument design group, which essentially started to design instruments rather than just calibrate them. Then 1959 to '63 I headed the navigation and communication sections in instrument research division. Then in '63 to '67 I became Spacecraft Manager for Lunar Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Taback, let me ask you, when you came here what kind of experience did you bring? Were you right out of college, or did you have experience in your field before you got to NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no experience in the field that I was interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mention you became head of those areas, how many people were working for you at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.08044631169975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first started here at NACA, I started working in the field of aircraft instrumentation. I became head of the local instrument calibration lab right after I came, which was in 1942. I headed the instrument calibration lab. Then in '49 I became head of a flight instrument design group, which essentially started to design instruments rather than just calibrate them. Then 1959 to '63 I headed the navigation and communication sections in instrument research division. Then in '63 to '67 I became Spacecraft Manager for Lunar Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Taback, let me ask you, when you came here what kind of experience did you bring? Were you right out of college, or did you have experience in your field before you got to NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no experience in the field that I was interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mention you became head of those areas, how many people were working for you at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the calibration lab about 20 or 30. In the instrument design group, similar numbers, small group of people. Of course in the Lunar Orbiter Program, when I headed the spacecraft team, there was probably closer to about 100 people, including a lot of the lab that helped out, although they were not part of the project office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a big change or risk for you to move from the aeronautics side over?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.846646533725803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can give you one or two illustrations. When we flew Lunar Orbiter, we had no computers. The spacecraft was commanded by a sequencer. In other words, it went through a prefixed program and did all the things it was supposed to. When we did Viking we had a computer on board, and we were very proud of the fact that it had 25,000 words. That's not kilobits. That's 1,000 words. We used essentially wire recording. All the words were strung out on wires that had been plated and were magnetic. That worked, and the computers operated nicely. But we had a hard time getting them. Of course the capacity was very small compared to what we can do today.\\n\\n Today we fly kilobits of computers mostly on spacecraft, many kilobits, sometimes terabits in capacity of memory. So it made an enormous change in capacity of what you can attempt to do. The same is true in all the other fields like communication, control, structures, and so forth. Made enormous advances in almost every field. So one can get pretty obsolete in 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the processes? Are the processes pretty much the same that were in place when you were at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Manufacturing processes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, evaluation for making decisions, decision-making processes, did they change a lot from when you were at NACA, because Langley had been so much an in-house research facility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they are changing. When we did Viking, most of the actual work was accomplished by Martin Marietta in Denver, and we were in a supervisory role, and that had gotten even harder I think. NASA is primarily a contracting agency, with most of the work being done by commercial firms with some intent of overseeing the work by the Langley engineers and technicians. To a large degree most of that work is now accomplished by contractors, including the work out in the field itself, with Langley being a supervisory group. So there's a lot more administrative work and a lot less technical competence than there used to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.940718370806447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Manufacturing processes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, evaluation for making decisions, decision-making processes, did they change a lot from when you were at NACA, because Langley had been so much an in-house research facility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they are changing. When we did Viking, most of the actual work was accomplished by Martin Marietta in Denver, and we were in a supervisory role, and that had gotten even harder I think. NASA is primarily a contracting agency, with most of the work being done by commercial firms with some intent of overseeing the work by the Langley engineers and technicians. To a large degree most of that work is now accomplished by contractors, including the work out in the field itself, with Langley being a supervisory group. So there's a lot more administrative work and a lot less technical competence than there used to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't mind it, because I could do either and they were both interesting. Although I enjoyed the technical challenge a lot more than most people, I think. But it did change, but I didn't mind it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting to me that you came from New York to Hampton to Langley to work on airplanes, and then within 20 years you began working on spacecraft, and then not too long after that you were working on spacecraft that was going to go to Mars."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.156353745340496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they are changing. When we did Viking, most of the actual work was accomplished by Martin Marietta in Denver, and we were in a supervisory role, and that had gotten even harder I think. NASA is primarily a contracting agency, with most of the work being done by commercial firms with some intent of overseeing the work by the Langley engineers and technicians. To a large degree most of that work is now accomplished by contractors, including the work out in the field itself, with Langley being a supervisory group. So there's a lot more administrative work and a lot less technical competence than there used to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't mind it, because I could do either and they were both interesting. Although I enjoyed the technical challenge a lot more than most people, I think. But it did change, but I didn't mind it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting to me that you came from New York to Hampton to Langley to work on airplanes, and then within 20 years you began working on spacecraft, and then not too long after that you were working on spacecraft that was going to go to Mars."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually things caught up with me, not the other way around. The airplane didn't become obsolete, but the research on airplanes became obsolete, especially when the Russians showed that they could put a Sputnik around Earth and everybody got real excited about what NASA could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts on that, when you heard that Sputnik had launched?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.507059717044996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't mind it, because I could do either and they were both interesting. Although I enjoyed the technical challenge a lot more than most people, I think. But it did change, but I didn't mind it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting to me that you came from New York to Hampton to Langley to work on airplanes, and then within 20 years you began working on spacecraft, and then not too long after that you were working on spacecraft that was going to go to Mars."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually things caught up with me, not the other way around. The airplane didn't become obsolete, but the research on airplanes became obsolete, especially when the Russians showed that they could put a Sputnik around Earth and everybody got real excited about what NASA could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts on that, when you heard that Sputnik had launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went through the standard program. We took a lot of courses locally, math and orbital mechanics and things like that. That was fairly interesting. I didn't use most of it, but it was interesting. In the process of doing that, of course, we lost all the competence we may have had at one time with aerodynamics and instrumentation and so forth. Probably not lost, it's probably up to par but not used as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back and do any more research and work on the aeronautics side?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.563399685605551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually things caught up with me, not the other way around. The airplane didn't become obsolete, but the research on airplanes became obsolete, especially when the Russians showed that they could put a Sputnik around Earth and everybody got real excited about what NASA could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts on that, when you heard that Sputnik had launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went through the standard program. We took a lot of courses locally, math and orbital mechanics and things like that. That was fairly interesting. I didn't use most of it, but it was interesting. In the process of doing that, of course, we lost all the competence we may have had at one time with aerodynamics and instrumentation and so forth. Probably not lost, it's probably up to par but not used as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back and do any more research and work on the aeronautics side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually I should have, but I didn't. Mostly a matter of opportunity. As I said, I worked somewhat on balloons with the Wallops people, and I went back to work for NASA on composites for a number of years and ran a large group under the Bionetics Corporation that looked into composites. Eventually began consulting with NASA on new programs. One thing just worked into another in just the passage of time. Airplanes became obsolete. I was lucky enough to have gotten into airplanes when we were just coming out of the subsonic range. We built all the D airplanes, the experimental airplanes. The last one I did, which was the X-15, finally got to be supersonic. In fact it went up to Mach 6, which was unusual at the time. Since then everybody flies supersonically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see the X-15 fly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.625999650672835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went through the standard program. We took a lot of courses locally, math and orbital mechanics and things like that. That was fairly interesting. I didn't use most of it, but it was interesting. In the process of doing that, of course, we lost all the competence we may have had at one time with aerodynamics and instrumentation and so forth. Probably not lost, it's probably up to par but not used as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go back and do any more research and work on the aeronautics side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually I should have, but I didn't. Mostly a matter of opportunity. As I said, I worked somewhat on balloons with the Wallops people, and I went back to work for NASA on composites for a number of years and ran a large group under the Bionetics Corporation that looked into composites. Eventually began consulting with NASA on new programs. One thing just worked into another in just the passage of time. Airplanes became obsolete. I was lucky enough to have gotten into airplanes when we were just coming out of the subsonic range. We built all the D airplanes, the experimental airplanes. The last one I did, which was the X-15, finally got to be supersonic. In fact it went up to Mach 6, which was unusual at the time. Since then everybody flies supersonically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see the X-15 fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've seen it fly. It flew mostly out of Wallops Air Force Base where NASA has an installation. I helped a little bit with the determination of the ground range, which had to be enlarged because of the X-15 range. That's installed and working now properly. Radars are better. Communication is better. Communication with the pilot is better. Everything has gotten better just with the passage of time and because people are smarter I think, get better educations. We have better things to learn with, computers, and we learn how to do things a lot easier than we used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that is a difference. Some of the methods to come up with answers, took you a little bit longer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.118518087250413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've seen it fly. It flew mostly out of Wallops Air Force Base where NASA has an installation. I helped a little bit with the determination of the ground range, which had to be enlarged because of the X-15 range. That's installed and working now properly. Radars are better. Communication is better. Communication with the pilot is better. Everything has gotten better just with the passage of time and because people are smarter I think, get better educations. We have better things to learn with, computers, and we learn how to do things a lot easier than we used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that is a difference. Some of the methods to come up with answers, took you a little bit longer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The methods are a little bit different. But the one thing that strikes me in all the consulting that I've done is how technically competent the people are, and yet they lack experience. The new people on the block can answer a lot of technical questions but haven't got enough sense to do the right things at the right time, which is interesting. Which you can only learn by having done some things yourself. There are very few, handful of people that have done a lot of things. Luckily I was lucky enough to get the right experiences, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite project you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like Viking. I like Lunar Orbiter first because it was a first for Langley. It was the first space program that Langley did after airplanes. So we were pioneering in many instances in spacecraft, spacecraft design, orbital mechanics, how to use spacecraft, and mission design. When I did Viking then subsequently it was also interesting, but different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us some of those discussions of how you were able to work through those designs? It fascinates me about what research is available. I was reading before I came here about the different theories of what, for instance, the lunar surface was going to be, because you really didn't know. So if you could share some of those experiences."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.146803973861317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. JPL has been mostly active in going to Mars. Europeans are going to Mars, and JPL of course has got two Rovers on the surface now that apparently lived through the latest no-power problems and are still operating, which is good. I'm amazed at what they've been able to accomplish. They did a lovely job on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty amazing what you guys were able to put in place in the early 70s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we really had a design that was guaranteed for 90 days. But it lived for eight years, which is a bad design, of course. We were very much afraid of the sandstorms on Mars, so we used RTGs, radioactive thermal generators, no solar panels. Most of the latest spacecraft that land on Mars use solar panels, and it turns out that dust isn't the big problem that we thought it was. But that's how you learn things, you go and try. So everything seems to be working okay, including the solar panels on the Orbiters and the Landers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you learn from the Lunar Orbiter Project that you were able to apply when you got ready to do Viking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all it was the first space program that Langley did, and we learned how a space program operates. It did help quite a bit. We got a lot of experience in running a major technical contract and overlooking all his work, and making sure that he went off in the right direction and didn't spend too much money on any one thing. So that experience was very worthwhile. That is largely where I think JPL and NASA institutions are headed in general in the future, which will be mostly oversight committees, technical competence to some degree. But most of that is going out into industry rather than to a government center like NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what were your thoughts when you saw those pictures come back from Lunar Orbiter?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.576137744034927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were at JPL watching for the photos to come back. We had a spacecraft operations area at JPL. Most of the local Langley technical people, the program office went out for the lunar encounters. At that time we had no switch to switch them off, so they all landed on the back of the Moon. We got rid of them somehow. The Australians were very cute about that. After we thought we had put them all in on the back, they played a couple of tapes that indicated that they came out from behind the Moon. They had us fooled for a while. But it was obvious they were tapes after a little bit. It was exciting. We had some beautiful pictures, lots of magnification. I enjoyed every bit of that, including the data return that we got back. We'll look at that in a little while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the data that you collected from the Lunar Orbiter Program impact the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that they used the landing site information. They claimed they didn't need it of course, but I believe we had the first valid surface pictures of the Moon, and I believe they used them to some extent to get intelligent landings on the surface. I believe they went to one of the sites that we examined beforehand. Subsequent to that, I don't know, they went various places. But they too were restricted to almost equatorial landings as we were. That was fairly interesting. But I think we got more of a return by going to the Moon and photographing the entire Moon than we did out of the Apollo site selection. In fact, from a scientific point of view, that return was a lot more interesting and probably will be used for another 100 years or so before anything new is found out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might be used as part of the new program that NASA's doing right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Although I think it's a mistake to go back. It's a waste of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you think they should go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.242145363006083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Although I think it's a mistake to go back. It's a waste of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you think they should go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Moon is okay, but this idea of making a research program, how to live on the surface, doesn't sound enticing enough to warrant a lot of money. That's about all we're going to do that's different, keeping people alive and making sure they have a place to live. Other than that, the scientific return has already been gotten from the Moon I think. So we'll have longer stays and we'll learn a lot more about how to keep people alive, but that's about it. We're going to learn that anyhow on the [International] Space Station, so I'm not too excited about it.\\n\\n But I am excited about going back to Mars with people. That should be more interesting. I do like the rest of the NASA program, which is primarily scientific and going to the planets. One thing is really fascinating, and that's the latest thing, which I believe NASA is doing, which is looking for planets. I consulted on a couple of schemes for planetary surveys that were fascinating. One of them looks for the decrement in light as the planet goes on the front surface of things. The other one looks for planetary lensing, it looks for images of things that come past gravitational disturbances. That seems to work pretty well. What's interesting is that the ground-based telescopes have gotten almost as good. They now know how to take care of the atmosphere by shining a laser through it and then correcting for the atmospheric disturbances. So you'd think you were out in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to see through those telescopes yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't looked through a telescope, but we have found about 200 planets. Mostly big ones about the size of Jupiter, but we're still continuing to look, and we're looking forward to finding something similar to Earth, or anyhow a planet that would support life. We haven't found any yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're back to where you started with Viking, looking for life on other planets, aren't we?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.157939292228981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Moon is okay, but this idea of making a research program, how to live on the surface, doesn't sound enticing enough to warrant a lot of money. That's about all we're going to do that's different, keeping people alive and making sure they have a place to live. Other than that, the scientific return has already been gotten from the Moon I think. So we'll have longer stays and we'll learn a lot more about how to keep people alive, but that's about it. We're going to learn that anyhow on the [International] Space Station, so I'm not too excited about it.\\n\\n But I am excited about going back to Mars with people. That should be more interesting. I do like the rest of the NASA program, which is primarily scientific and going to the planets. One thing is really fascinating, and that's the latest thing, which I believe NASA is doing, which is looking for planets. I consulted on a couple of schemes for planetary surveys that were fascinating. One of them looks for the decrement in light as the planet goes on the front surface of things. The other one looks for planetary lensing, it looks for images of things that come past gravitational disturbances. That seems to work pretty well. What's interesting is that the ground-based telescopes have gotten almost as good. They now know how to take care of the atmosphere by shining a laser through it and then correcting for the atmospheric disturbances. So you'd think you were out in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to see through those telescopes yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't looked through a telescope, but we have found about 200 planets. Mostly big ones about the size of Jupiter, but we're still continuing to look, and we're looking forward to finding something similar to Earth, or anyhow a planet that would support life. We haven't found any yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're back to where you started with Viking, looking for life on other planets, aren't we?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we will for a long time, won't we, yes. Do you suppose there's intelligent life on Earth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to look here first, huh."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.175488102476645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't looked through a telescope, but we have found about 200 planets. Mostly big ones about the size of Jupiter, but we're still continuing to look, and we're looking forward to finding something similar to Earth, or anyhow a planet that would support life. We haven't found any yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're back to where you started with Viking, looking for life on other planets, aren't we?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we will for a long time, won't we, yes. Do you suppose there's intelligent life on Earth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to look here first, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah we're going to continue to look, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were finished with the Lunar Orbiter Project, how soon afterward did you start on Viking?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.083875669418495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we will for a long time, won't we, yes. Do you suppose there's intelligent life on Earth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to look here first, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah we're going to continue to look, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were finished with the Lunar Orbiter Project, how soon afterward did you start on Viking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Viking didn't start till the early 70s, and Lunar Orbiter finished in '67, so we had about two or three years studying Mars before we actually hooked up with a contractor to get the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went right into that program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.982084077131661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah we're going to continue to look, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were finished with the Lunar Orbiter Project, how soon afterward did you start on Viking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Viking didn't start till the early 70s, and Lunar Orbiter finished in '67, so we had about two or three years studying Mars before we actually hooked up with a contractor to get the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went right into that program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did locally. We went from Lunar Orbiter into the Mars Viking Program, essentially. It wasn't called Viking at the time, it was just a study of Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get your information to study Mars? Was it published papers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.980093419035178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Viking didn't start till the early 70s, and Lunar Orbiter finished in '67, so we had about two or three years studying Mars before we actually hooked up with a contractor to get the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went right into that program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did locally. We went from Lunar Orbiter into the Mars Viking Program, essentially. It wasn't called Viking at the time, it was just a study of Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get your information to study Mars? Was it published papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Books, papers, technical treatises, students' theses that were graduating from college. Very hard to find information at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.088992687816864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did locally. We went from Lunar Orbiter into the Mars Viking Program, essentially. It wasn't called Viking at the time, it was just a study of Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get your information to study Mars? Was it published papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Books, papers, technical treatises, students' theses that were graduating from college. Very hard to find information at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, except we knew that Mars was one of the few planets that could have supported life at one time or might have supported life at one time. That's probably still true. Everything else looks desolate, too hot, too cold, too barren, too something. So that's us and Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other NASA Centers other than Langley and JPL that were looking at the Mars adventure?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.321102986463181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Books, papers, technical treatises, students' theses that were graduating from college. Very hard to find information at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, except we knew that Mars was one of the few planets that could have supported life at one time or might have supported life at one time. That's probably still true. Everything else looks desolate, too hot, too cold, too barren, too something. So that's us and Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other NASA Centers other than Langley and JPL that were looking at the Mars adventure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any other people looking at Mars? Yeah, all over Earth. People in universities, scientists. The Earth by and large was very conscious of Mars as being a good bet for having supported life at one time. For all I know about it, it's still a good bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still a good bet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.690114429403534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, except we knew that Mars was one of the few planets that could have supported life at one time or might have supported life at one time. That's probably still true. Everything else looks desolate, too hot, too cold, too barren, too something. So that's us and Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other NASA Centers other than Langley and JPL that were looking at the Mars adventure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any other people looking at Mars? Yeah, all over Earth. People in universities, scientists. The Earth by and large was very conscious of Mars as being a good bet for having supported life at one time. For all I know about it, it's still a good bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still a good bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started, like you said, you mentioned you came in with the instrument calibration lab."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.211238254892816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any other people looking at Mars? Yeah, all over Earth. People in universities, scientists. The Earth by and large was very conscious of Mars as being a good bet for having supported life at one time. For all I know about it, it's still a good bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still a good bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started, like you said, you mentioned you came in with the instrument calibration lab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was moved into the instrument design laboratory, partially because we were already in instruments. Then in the instrument research division I got moved into a navigation and communication section and took charge of that, mostly because the field was widening at the time, a lot of stuff going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you planned to go so quickly into a leadership position when you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.901375838769795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started, like you said, you mentioned you came in with the instrument calibration lab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was moved into the instrument design laboratory, partially because we were already in instruments. Then in the instrument research division I got moved into a navigation and communication section and took charge of that, mostly because the field was widening at the time, a lot of stuff going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you planned to go so quickly into a leadership position when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never. Catch as catch can. Better salaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was just a good move for you then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.445973154188662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was moved into the instrument design laboratory, partially because we were already in instruments. Then in the instrument research division I got moved into a navigation and communication section and took charge of that, mostly because the field was widening at the time, a lot of stuff going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you planned to go so quickly into a leadership position when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never. Catch as catch can. Better salaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was just a good move for you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact salaries were interesting, because I think when I came down here the yearly salary was something like $1,700 a year, and when I quit NASA it was closer to $70,000 a year, which is about what I'm making as a retiree out of Langley. So that's gotten an awful lot better. I remember when the salary went up to something like $2,600. That was enormous. It was fantastic. But that's all useless now. Money doesn't mean anything. Decimal points have shifted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they have. What kind of hours did you have? Did your hours that you spent at the Center change after the aeronautics shifted over?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.717747949098513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never. Catch as catch can. Better salaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was just a good move for you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact salaries were interesting, because I think when I came down here the yearly salary was something like $1,700 a year, and when I quit NASA it was closer to $70,000 a year, which is about what I'm making as a retiree out of Langley. So that's gotten an awful lot better. I remember when the salary went up to something like $2,600. That was enormous. It was fantastic. But that's all useless now. Money doesn't mean anything. Decimal points have shifted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they have. What kind of hours did you have? Did your hours that you spent at the Center change after the aeronautics shifted over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never really counted hours. When we had things to do, we did them. When we finished, we quit. I had a nominal eight-hour day of course. No Saturdays, no Sundays, 40-hour week. But I used to take stuff home and read correspondence all the time. Reports, correspondence, contractor documents, and so forth. Drawings. In fact I used to come here on the couch and get rid of piles of correspondence at a time. All interesting, to me anyhow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet the drawings were very interesting as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.231787591479645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never really counted hours. When we had things to do, we did them. When we finished, we quit. I had a nominal eight-hour day of course. No Saturdays, no Sundays, 40-hour week. But I used to take stuff home and read correspondence all the time. Reports, correspondence, contractor documents, and so forth. Drawings. In fact I used to come here on the couch and get rid of piles of correspondence at a time. All interesting, to me anyhow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet the drawings were very interesting as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes they were. We had some of the best engineers working in the fields of communications and radar and control of aircraft, control of spacecraft. All very interesting. I didn't realize at the time how big a pioneering effort we had undertaken, because almost everything we did was new. That was true both on Lunar Orbiter and Viking. Lunar Orbiter was new to me. A little bit old hat for spacecraft. Now in Viking we actually had new computers and new communications and so forth, new instruments. So Viking was a fairly brand-new experiment.\\n\\n In fact, I thought you might be interested, this is one of the original Martin models that was later changed. They moved a lot of things around and saved weight and made it smaller. But they were minor changes. It pretty well flew just like that, just the way they proposed, almost the way they proposed. I had a nice model which I gave to my son-in-law who's taking it up to Connecticut. He took it up and put it in an aquarium. Gave me a lot more publicity than I ever gave it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to show you the X-15 model, which I still have I think someplace up here. It still looked like an airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it does."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.545416779604498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to show you the X-15 model, which I still have I think someplace up here. It still looked like an airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They don't anymore. They look like flying I don't know what. Look like something that cat drug in. See, this was still an airplane. It was streamlined. Tiny wings. But had to go up to something like 7,000 degrees, the thermal problem more than anything else. The aerodynamics were pretty well known, except that they knew or they thought that there was a large control reversal problem at the time when you went supersonic. That wasn't solved. Well, it turned out not to be true to begin with. Controls didn't reverse.\\n\\n But now we fly at Mach 2 and 3. All the fighters out at Langley are supersonic airplanes. How about that? That's nice, that's a good surprise. But the X-15 was still a streamlined thing, no tires. They put an alpha-beta attack and yaw things right in the nose of it, in the hottest spot you could get, and that worked fine too. Do you remember that nut that piloted this thing at first? He got into the first flight. He had a broken rib. He didn't tell anybody. He had hurt himself somehow. He was a really strange guy. He's still around. He retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on the instrumentation for the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had a lot of new telemetry stuff, which I was not too familiar with. But I installed most of the flight instrumentation. Accelerometers, pressure devices, thermocouples, and things like that. I was in charge of a group that designed the instruments. We sent them out to Edwards Air Force Base [California] after they were built, and they did the installation and checkout. Although, that was done at North American [Aviation, Incorporated], not at Edwards, in Los Angeles [California]. They're still in business?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, North American turned into Rockwell."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.606018644004997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They don't anymore. They look like flying I don't know what. Look like something that cat drug in. See, this was still an airplane. It was streamlined. Tiny wings. But had to go up to something like 7,000 degrees, the thermal problem more than anything else. The aerodynamics were pretty well known, except that they knew or they thought that there was a large control reversal problem at the time when you went supersonic. That wasn't solved. Well, it turned out not to be true to begin with. Controls didn't reverse.\\n\\n But now we fly at Mach 2 and 3. All the fighters out at Langley are supersonic airplanes. How about that? That's nice, that's a good surprise. But the X-15 was still a streamlined thing, no tires. They put an alpha-beta attack and yaw things right in the nose of it, in the hottest spot you could get, and that worked fine too. Do you remember that nut that piloted this thing at first? He got into the first flight. He had a broken rib. He didn't tell anybody. He had hurt himself somehow. He was a really strange guy. He's still around. He retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on the instrumentation for the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had a lot of new telemetry stuff, which I was not too familiar with. But I installed most of the flight instrumentation. Accelerometers, pressure devices, thermocouples, and things like that. I was in charge of a group that designed the instruments. We sent them out to Edwards Air Force Base [California] after they were built, and they did the installation and checkout. Although, that was done at North American [Aviation, Incorporated], not at Edwards, in Los Angeles [California]. They're still in business?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, North American turned into Rockwell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, they became Rockwell, didn't they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're part of the business called United Space Alliance."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.784465160005553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had a lot of new telemetry stuff, which I was not too familiar with. But I installed most of the flight instrumentation. Accelerometers, pressure devices, thermocouples, and things like that. I was in charge of a group that designed the instruments. We sent them out to Edwards Air Force Base [California] after they were built, and they did the installation and checkout. Although, that was done at North American [Aviation, Incorporated], not at Edwards, in Los Angeles [California]. They're still in business?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, North American turned into Rockwell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, they became Rockwell, didn't they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're part of the business called United Space Alliance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good group of people too. In fact, in the United States—maybe it's true all over the world—there's a lot of smart people around that do all kinds of things. Amazingly smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have pilots that are crazy and get into airplanes, right, test pilots."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.093850177783947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, they became Rockwell, didn't they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're part of the business called United Space Alliance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good group of people too. In fact, in the United States—maybe it's true all over the world—there's a lot of smart people around that do all kinds of things. Amazingly smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have pilots that are crazy and get into airplanes, right, test pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm going to go back to airplanes someday. Next life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a good idea. You can redesign them where they'll look like airplanes, won't they."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.326500197537719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good group of people too. In fact, in the United States—maybe it's true all over the world—there's a lot of smart people around that do all kinds of things. Amazingly smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have pilots that are crazy and get into airplanes, right, test pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm going to go back to airplanes someday. Next life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a good idea. You can redesign them where they'll look like airplanes, won't they."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I don't like is what they're doing nowadays with things like airplanes that they claim are reentry vehicles. What they're doing is they go up to high altitudes and they come back in. But they're not thermal. They don't take the reentry velocities that you need when you go to orbital speeds. But they're going to sell to passengers at about $20,000 a kick or more. $1,000,000 a flight. Tell them that they've been in a reentry. Well, they'll have been in a reentry, but it's a low speed. Not too exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're not planning on buying a ticket then, huh."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.696111330597466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm going to go back to airplanes someday. Next life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a good idea. You can redesign them where they'll look like airplanes, won't they."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I don't like is what they're doing nowadays with things like airplanes that they claim are reentry vehicles. What they're doing is they go up to high altitudes and they come back in. But they're not thermal. They don't take the reentry velocities that you need when you go to orbital speeds. But they're going to sell to passengers at about $20,000 a kick or more. $1,000,000 a flight. Tell them that they've been in a reentry. Well, they'll have been in a reentry, but it's a low speed. Not too exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're not planning on buying a ticket then, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even expect to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you never know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.217901478441629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I don't like is what they're doing nowadays with things like airplanes that they claim are reentry vehicles. What they're doing is they go up to high altitudes and they come back in. But they're not thermal. They don't take the reentry velocities that you need when you go to orbital speeds. But they're going to sell to passengers at about $20,000 a kick or more. $1,000,000 a flight. Tell them that they've been in a reentry. Well, they'll have been in a reentry, but it's a low speed. Not too exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're not planning on buying a ticket then, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even expect to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you never know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not going to buy a ticket. I would buy a ticket, if I could go as fast as the X-15 went or the Apollo during reentry. I think I could get interested. But at the speeds they're talking about, it doesn't sound at all exciting. In fact they'll be in an aircraft and they'll experience zero-G [gravity] I think for a short period of time. But other than that, yuck. Yuck.\\n\\n I'm going to have to clean house one of these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a rainy day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.13100164271292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even expect to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you never know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not going to buy a ticket. I would buy a ticket, if I could go as fast as the X-15 went or the Apollo during reentry. I think I could get interested. But at the speeds they're talking about, it doesn't sound at all exciting. In fact they'll be in an aircraft and they'll experience zero-G [gravity] I think for a short period of time. But other than that, yuck. Yuck.\\n\\n I'm going to have to clean house one of these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a rainy day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm amazed. Mary Ellen died. She was three years older than I was. She was 90 and she died in November, end of November. I'm amazed at all the work there is to do around the house, between cooking and cleaning and vacuuming and all kinds of things. I don't know. She taught school for—let's see. She quit school when I quit. So she quit in '75. She started teaching about '50. So she taught for 25 years, and she kept house too. Amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is. Did you meet her after you got to Hampton? After you arrived for NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.034446269681023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not going to buy a ticket. I would buy a ticket, if I could go as fast as the X-15 went or the Apollo during reentry. I think I could get interested. But at the speeds they're talking about, it doesn't sound at all exciting. In fact they'll be in an aircraft and they'll experience zero-G [gravity] I think for a short period of time. But other than that, yuck. Yuck.\\n\\n I'm going to have to clean house one of these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a rainy day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm amazed. Mary Ellen died. She was three years older than I was. She was 90 and she died in November, end of November. I'm amazed at all the work there is to do around the house, between cooking and cleaning and vacuuming and all kinds of things. I don't know. She taught school for—let's see. She quit school when I quit. So she quit in '75. She started teaching about '50. So she taught for 25 years, and she kept house too. Amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is. Did you meet her after you got to Hampton? After you arrived for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got married down here, yeah. She was an NACA employee, and she was working on strain gauges at the time. You know what a strain gauge is? It's a metal grid, and you put them on structures and you read the resistance of the grid, and from that you determine how much strain the structure is under. They’ve got a lot of problems. They're temperature-sensitive and all kinds of sensitive to other things. But she worked on those for a number of years. She was doing research on strain gauges at Langley when we met. I was in her car rider combination of course going to Langley. There are no public transportation schemes down here. You got in a car with other people or you stayed home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you had a good system that worked well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.038273632978914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm amazed. Mary Ellen died. She was three years older than I was. She was 90 and she died in November, end of November. I'm amazed at all the work there is to do around the house, between cooking and cleaning and vacuuming and all kinds of things. I don't know. She taught school for—let's see. She quit school when I quit. So she quit in '75. She started teaching about '50. So she taught for 25 years, and she kept house too. Amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is. Did you meet her after you got to Hampton? After you arrived for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got married down here, yeah. She was an NACA employee, and she was working on strain gauges at the time. You know what a strain gauge is? It's a metal grid, and you put them on structures and you read the resistance of the grid, and from that you determine how much strain the structure is under. They’ve got a lot of problems. They're temperature-sensitive and all kinds of sensitive to other things. But she worked on those for a number of years. She was doing research on strain gauges at Langley when we met. I was in her car rider combination of course going to Langley. There are no public transportation schemes down here. You got in a car with other people or you stayed home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you had a good system that worked well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked fine, yes, if you had friends it worked fine. That wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other women during NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.578115596270263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked fine, yes, if you had friends it worked fine. That wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other women during NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were a number of women, but very few and far between. At the time we had what they called computers at NASA, and they really did computing. They had datasheets that were full of wind tunnel data and aerodynamic data, and they actually took all the numbers and converted them to coefficients and things like that. They were called computers until we built some real computers. Then they had to retire or go look for other things to do. So the only women really working at Langley—there was one woman engineer, a woman named Joyner, Betty Joyner. The rest were generally computers, and there weren't too many of them.\\n\\n They used Fridens and hand calculators, things like that. They became obsolete. They were replaced slowly. We had relay computers. If you walked by where these were located, you could hear the relays clacking. Extremely slow. Very small memories. They were eventually replaced with electronic computers, which is what we have today. They were interesting times. You never realize how interesting they are because you're going through them and there's a lot of new things happening. You're very lucky to be at the forefront of the happenings, but you never realize it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people adapt well to the new technology as it came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. In fact, I'm amazed at the way the kids nowadays have adapted, the computers, enormous memories, the Internet. They seem to be born with a sixth sense as to how to use this new equipment. A lot of it has me stumped. I don't understand it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just takes you a little bit longer I think, because there's so much and it changes so quickly. I think that's part."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.420128440300292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were a number of women, but very few and far between. At the time we had what they called computers at NASA, and they really did computing. They had datasheets that were full of wind tunnel data and aerodynamic data, and they actually took all the numbers and converted them to coefficients and things like that. They were called computers until we built some real computers. Then they had to retire or go look for other things to do. So the only women really working at Langley—there was one woman engineer, a woman named Joyner, Betty Joyner. The rest were generally computers, and there weren't too many of them.\\n\\n They used Fridens and hand calculators, things like that. They became obsolete. They were replaced slowly. We had relay computers. If you walked by where these were located, you could hear the relays clacking. Extremely slow. Very small memories. They were eventually replaced with electronic computers, which is what we have today. They were interesting times. You never realize how interesting they are because you're going through them and there's a lot of new things happening. You're very lucky to be at the forefront of the happenings, but you never realize it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people adapt well to the new technology as it came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. In fact, I'm amazed at the way the kids nowadays have adapted, the computers, enormous memories, the Internet. They seem to be born with a sixth sense as to how to use this new equipment. A lot of it has me stumped. I don't understand it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just takes you a little bit longer I think, because there's so much and it changes so quickly. I think that's part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changes awfully fast. That's one reason I enjoyed consulting with NASA, because you could stay abreast of what was going on a little bit, and you were still familiar with the new people. That helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What seems to be a prevailing lesson or a prevailing method all these years that you've been able to apply no matter what project you were working with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.355698267000324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. In fact, I'm amazed at the way the kids nowadays have adapted, the computers, enormous memories, the Internet. They seem to be born with a sixth sense as to how to use this new equipment. A lot of it has me stumped. I don't understand it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just takes you a little bit longer I think, because there's so much and it changes so quickly. I think that's part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changes awfully fast. That's one reason I enjoyed consulting with NASA, because you could stay abreast of what was going on a little bit, and you were still familiar with the new people. That helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What seems to be a prevailing lesson or a prevailing method all these years that you've been able to apply no matter what project you were working with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing that I remember using on every project was to be conservative about everything. Believe everything, but don't believe anything. It never hurt to be conservative. Langley was a conservative Center. So it was no problem at all to be conservative in the amount of data you were collecting, in the method of getting to the planet. So although we were pioneering in many fields, conservatism was still a good idea. Still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How important was testing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.395220296667027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changes awfully fast. That's one reason I enjoyed consulting with NASA, because you could stay abreast of what was going on a little bit, and you were still familiar with the new people. That helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What seems to be a prevailing lesson or a prevailing method all these years that you've been able to apply no matter what project you were working with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing that I remember using on every project was to be conservative about everything. Believe everything, but don't believe anything. It never hurt to be conservative. Langley was a conservative Center. So it was no problem at all to be conservative in the amount of data you were collecting, in the method of getting to the planet. So although we were pioneering in many fields, conservatism was still a good idea. Still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How important was testing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did an awful lot of testing. Everything we built was tested many times before we flew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of testing procedures and watched the tests?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.328022551852252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing that I remember using on every project was to be conservative about everything. Believe everything, but don't believe anything. It never hurt to be conservative. Langley was a conservative Center. So it was no problem at all to be conservative in the amount of data you were collecting, in the method of getting to the planet. So although we were pioneering in many fields, conservatism was still a good idea. Still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How important was testing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did an awful lot of testing. Everything we built was tested many times before we flew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of testing procedures and watched the tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not especially so. In fact I was in a part of a design group, and so testing was a little bit not our field. Although the calibration lab did a lot of testing on instruments. The aero people did a lot of testing. In fact they built a lot of new facilities at Langley, landing facilities and wind tunnels and things like that. But testing has always been a Langley fetish, and I hope still is down at Houston [Texas] too, at least used to be. I haven't been there in years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a lot of traveling?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.364469502058057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did an awful lot of testing. Everything we built was tested many times before we flew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of testing procedures and watched the tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not especially so. In fact I was in a part of a design group, and so testing was a little bit not our field. Although the calibration lab did a lot of testing on instruments. The aero people did a lot of testing. In fact they built a lot of new facilities at Langley, landing facilities and wind tunnels and things like that. But testing has always been a Langley fetish, and I hope still is down at Houston [Texas] too, at least used to be. I haven't been there in years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a lot of traveling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you did a lot of traveling on Viking. In fact I visited all the subcontractors, all the instruments and the life support stuff. The gas chromatograph. They were all built in different sections of the country. So it was life aboard an airplane a lot of times, most of the time. A lot of motel living. If you don't learn how to live in motels, you don't live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Communication was a little different then too. People didn't have cell phones and email."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.516077224508951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not especially so. In fact I was in a part of a design group, and so testing was a little bit not our field. Although the calibration lab did a lot of testing on instruments. The aero people did a lot of testing. In fact they built a lot of new facilities at Langley, landing facilities and wind tunnels and things like that. But testing has always been a Langley fetish, and I hope still is down at Houston [Texas] too, at least used to be. I haven't been there in years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a lot of traveling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you did a lot of traveling on Viking. In fact I visited all the subcontractors, all the instruments and the life support stuff. The gas chromatograph. They were all built in different sections of the country. So it was life aboard an airplane a lot of times, most of the time. A lot of motel living. If you don't learn how to live in motels, you don't live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Communication was a little different then too. People didn't have cell phones and email."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't have cell phones, we had telephones. Cell phones didn't come in till I quit. Everybody's got one now, though. Everybody walks around with one ear at a telephone. I don't even know what they're talking about, but they're talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe they don't either."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.7956413605655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you did a lot of traveling on Viking. In fact I visited all the subcontractors, all the instruments and the life support stuff. The gas chromatograph. They were all built in different sections of the country. So it was life aboard an airplane a lot of times, most of the time. A lot of motel living. If you don't learn how to live in motels, you don't live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Communication was a little different then too. People didn't have cell phones and email."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't have cell phones, we had telephones. Cell phones didn't come in till I quit. Everybody's got one now, though. Everybody walks around with one ear at a telephone. I don't even know what they're talking about, but they're talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe they don't either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they don't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just talking."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.217379289517222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't have cell phones, we had telephones. Cell phones didn't come in till I quit. Everybody's got one now, though. Everybody walks around with one ear at a telephone. I don't even know what they're talking about, but they're talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe they don't either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they don't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just talking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they're talking and listening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been an interesting time to travel for each of those contractors for each of the pieces and the aspects of that project and then coming back to Langley with that information."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.79708809946358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe they don't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just talking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they're talking and listening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been an interesting time to travel for each of those contractors for each of the pieces and the aspects of that project and then coming back to Langley with that information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky I think in having a job that oversaw all the areas of the spacecraft. We didn't go to one manufacturer and get into communications or other restricted field and stay with that. That was luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does sound good. I'm going to let you put your X-15 model back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.330097888292865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they're talking and listening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been an interesting time to travel for each of those contractors for each of the pieces and the aspects of that project and then coming back to Langley with that information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky I think in having a job that oversaw all the areas of the spacecraft. We didn't go to one manufacturer and get into communications or other restricted field and stay with that. That was luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does sound good. I'm going to let you put your X-15 model back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got it cleaned. I got two years' worth of cleaning on it. I didn't realize how dirty it is up there. I'll put it back. It's still flying. We built two of them, and two of them are still in existence. Never lost any. That was all Langley-forseen, built by North American, except for the instruments. We did the instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you want to get another?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.477886542547628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky I think in having a job that oversaw all the areas of the spacecraft. We didn't go to one manufacturer and get into communications or other restricted field and stay with that. That was luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does sound good. I'm going to let you put your X-15 model back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got it cleaned. I got two years' worth of cleaning on it. I didn't realize how dirty it is up there. I'll put it back. It's still flying. We built two of them, and two of them are still in existence. Never lost any. That was all Langley-forseen, built by North American, except for the instruments. We did the instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you want to get another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I wanted to show you—let's see, that might be the Lunar Orbiter book. The Moon as Viewed by [Lunar Orbiter]. This is the second one. This has a lot more than just pictures. This describes the photo system and so forth. These are typical pictures. All the pictures were made on 35-millimeter film. Then those strips were put together. So each of these 35-millimeter pieces is what you see about an inch across. Then a whole lot of 35-millimeter stuff became one photograph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting. Because this is about an 8½-by-11 photo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.530985047275141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got it cleaned. I got two years' worth of cleaning on it. I didn't realize how dirty it is up there. I'll put it back. It's still flying. We built two of them, and two of them are still in existence. Never lost any. That was all Langley-forseen, built by North American, except for the instruments. We did the instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you want to get another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I wanted to show you—let's see, that might be the Lunar Orbiter book. The Moon as Viewed by [Lunar Orbiter]. This is the second one. This has a lot more than just pictures. This describes the photo system and so forth. These are typical pictures. All the pictures were made on 35-millimeter film. Then those strips were put together. So each of these 35-millimeter pieces is what you see about an inch across. Then a whole lot of 35-millimeter stuff became one photograph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting. Because this is about an 8½-by-11 photo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but each of these were about an inch to begin, 35 millimeters, about an inch, little over an inch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that they labeled them this way by going, the numbers coming through to label the lines of the 35-millimeter film. Is that what they did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.70109449697238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I wanted to show you—let's see, that might be the Lunar Orbiter book. The Moon as Viewed by [Lunar Orbiter]. This is the second one. This has a lot more than just pictures. This describes the photo system and so forth. These are typical pictures. All the pictures were made on 35-millimeter film. Then those strips were put together. So each of these 35-millimeter pieces is what you see about an inch across. Then a whole lot of 35-millimeter stuff became one photograph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting. Because this is about an 8½-by-11 photo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but each of these were about an inch to begin, 35 millimeters, about an inch, little over an inch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that they labeled them this way by going, the numbers coming through to label the lines of the 35-millimeter film. Is that what they did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Search me. Looks about right, doesn't it? Yes, that must be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have a scale. Yes, one that goes across the top with letters, and one that goes across the side with numbers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.001216107747087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but each of these were about an inch to begin, 35 millimeters, about an inch, little over an inch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that they labeled them this way by going, the numbers coming through to label the lines of the 35-millimeter film. Is that what they did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Search me. Looks about right, doesn't it? Yes, that must be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have a scale. Yes, one that goes across the top with letters, and one that goes across the side with numbers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could find anything by letter and number. I’ve got a picture like that on the wall. I thought that was magnificent. That's on the west side of the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says it's the bull's-eye at the center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.001351230830096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Search me. Looks about right, doesn't it? Yes, that must be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have a scale. Yes, one that goes across the top with letters, and one that goes across the side with numbers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could find anything by letter and number. I’ve got a picture like that on the wall. I thought that was magnificent. That's on the west side of the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says it's the bull's-eye at the center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bull's-eye, right. The other one, this is the one that was put together. This was an official publication. Let me get the other one, which is the one I'm more familiar with. Photographic Atlas of the Moon, Bowker and Hughes, that's the one I'm familiar with. I think that's the one, yes. Clifford Nelson and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That looks like you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7792791453667745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could find anything by letter and number. I’ve got a picture like that on the wall. I thought that was magnificent. That's on the west side of the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says it's the bull's-eye at the center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bull's-eye, right. The other one, this is the one that was put together. This was an official publication. Let me get the other one, which is the one I'm more familiar with. Photographic Atlas of the Moon, Bowker and Hughes, that's the one I'm familiar with. I think that's the one, yes. Clifford Nelson and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That looks like you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to show you a picture of me about 40 years ago, but you won't believe it. You see this is a little more organized somehow. Smaller, isn't it? Okay, let me show you a good picture. I think I'm the last one on the book. These were taken by the son of the guy that did the GCMS. How about that for removing 40 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at you, [referring to a photo of Taback] look at that, they saved you a place right there in the corner."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.643643494851972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bull's-eye, right. The other one, this is the one that was put together. This was an official publication. Let me get the other one, which is the one I'm more familiar with. Photographic Atlas of the Moon, Bowker and Hughes, that's the one I'm familiar with. I think that's the one, yes. Clifford Nelson and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That looks like you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to show you a picture of me about 40 years ago, but you won't believe it. You see this is a little more organized somehow. Smaller, isn't it? Okay, let me show you a good picture. I think I'm the last one on the book. These were taken by the son of the guy that did the GCMS. How about that for removing 40 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at you, [referring to a photo of Taback] look at that, they saved you a place right there in the corner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They saved the best for the last right there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.604048327613302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to show you a picture of me about 40 years ago, but you won't believe it. You see this is a little more organized somehow. Smaller, isn't it? Okay, let me show you a good picture. I think I'm the last one on the book. These were taken by the son of the guy that did the GCMS. How about that for removing 40 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at you, [referring to a photo of Taback] look at that, they saved you a place right there in the corner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They saved the best for the last right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is an interesting book. You can't get it in any library. He made a few copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Called The Vikings of '76 [Hans-Peter Biemann]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.448942586237003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They saved the best for the last right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is an interesting book. You can't get it in any library. He made a few copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Called The Vikings of '76 [Hans-Peter Biemann]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the guy's son. [Klaus] Biemann was the scientist. That's Jim [James S.] Martin. He was the program manager, bright guy, he's dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that work together in one room, engineers, scientists, managers, accountants? How did you all come to agreement?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.38771398470778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is an interesting book. You can't get it in any library. He made a few copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Called The Vikings of '76 [Hans-Peter Biemann]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the guy's son. [Klaus] Biemann was the scientist. That's Jim [James S.] Martin. He was the program manager, bright guy, he's dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that work together in one room, engineers, scientists, managers, accountants? How did you all come to agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somehow it seemed to work. I don't know why. Well, they were pretty bright people in general. I don't remember any particular problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good you can converse and make decisions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.208571094119755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the guy's son. [Klaus] Biemann was the scientist. That's Jim [James S.] Martin. He was the program manager, bright guy, he's dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd that work together in one room, engineers, scientists, managers, accountants? How did you all come to agreement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somehow it seemed to work. I don't know why. Well, they were pretty bright people in general. I don't remember any particular problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good you can converse and make decisions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it worked. Well, there's a girl. You asked about how many women. She was at either JPL or Martin. She wasn't Langley. Let's see who else is interesting. He was the head of NASA at the time. Oh man, those were good old days. You remember Sagan, Carl Sagan? That's him over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very young Carl Sagan."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.00952343791084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somehow it seemed to work. I don't know why. Well, they were pretty bright people in general. I don't remember any particular problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good you can converse and make decisions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it worked. Well, there's a girl. You asked about how many women. She was at either JPL or Martin. She wasn't Langley. Let's see who else is interesting. He was the head of NASA at the time. Oh man, those were good old days. You remember Sagan, Carl Sagan? That's him over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very young Carl Sagan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other scientists didn't like him for some reason, he was too popular. I don't know whether they were jealous or what. But he was too popular. Okay, the other stuff I brought down, there's some good descriptions of the Viking Lander if you need any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take a look at it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.788359375456489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it worked. Well, there's a girl. You asked about how many women. She was at either JPL or Martin. She wasn't Langley. Let's see who else is interesting. He was the head of NASA at the time. Oh man, those were good old days. You remember Sagan, Carl Sagan? That's him over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very young Carl Sagan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other scientists didn't like him for some reason, he was too popular. I don't know whether they were jealous or what. But he was too popular. Okay, the other stuff I brought down, there's some good descriptions of the Viking Lander if you need any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take a look at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is pretty good. I don't know whose property it is, it's mine now. Maurice Parker. This is good because it's got all the scientists and the instruments, and I think it's got a description of the mission to Mars and how we landed and what the instruments looked like and what the spacecraft looked like. It's got a fantastic amount of information. You'll never use it, but if you want a reference, that'll give you some idea of what it looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish a lot of papers during your time with NACA and NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.653732639396098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other scientists didn't like him for some reason, he was too popular. I don't know whether they were jealous or what. But he was too popular. Okay, the other stuff I brought down, there's some good descriptions of the Viking Lander if you need any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take a look at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is pretty good. I don't know whose property it is, it's mine now. Maurice Parker. This is good because it's got all the scientists and the instruments, and I think it's got a description of the mission to Mars and how we landed and what the instruments looked like and what the spacecraft looked like. It's got a fantastic amount of information. You'll never use it, but if you want a reference, that'll give you some idea of what it looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish a lot of papers during your time with NACA and NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a number, but not very many, half a dozen maybe. They're on the net [Internet] if you look for my name. They have a bunch of links of various papers and things like that. I didn't know that till my daughter told me I was on the net someplace. Yes, this isn't bad, because this is a good description of everything that was done. So you could borrow that. This one isn't bad either. I think this is a description of the thing when it was first built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the Viking Lander itself."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.615258488217886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one is pretty good. I don't know whose property it is, it's mine now. Maurice Parker. This is good because it's got all the scientists and the instruments, and I think it's got a description of the mission to Mars and how we landed and what the instruments looked like and what the spacecraft looked like. It's got a fantastic amount of information. You'll never use it, but if you want a reference, that'll give you some idea of what it looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish a lot of papers during your time with NACA and NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a number, but not very many, half a dozen maybe. They're on the net [Internet] if you look for my name. They have a bunch of links of various papers and things like that. I didn't know that till my daughter told me I was on the net someplace. Yes, this isn't bad, because this is a good description of everything that was done. So you could borrow that. This one isn't bad either. I think this is a description of the thing when it was first built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the Viking Lander itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's got more stuff than you can absorb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to explain most of it to me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.683620542464318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a number, but not very many, half a dozen maybe. They're on the net [Internet] if you look for my name. They have a bunch of links of various papers and things like that. I didn't know that till my daughter told me I was on the net someplace. Yes, this isn't bad, because this is a good description of everything that was done. So you could borrow that. This one isn't bad either. I think this is a description of the thing when it was first built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the Viking Lander itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's got more stuff than you can absorb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to explain most of it to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yes, that's pretty good. So if you want a technical background to the Landers, JPL did the Orbiters and we did the Landers, and they really carried us to the planet and got into orbit at the planet, and then we left the Orbiter at the time and we were responsible for the entry and the landing. But they took us there. They did a good job too. In fact, I like JPL. Very competent bunch of people. Okay, shall I see what else we got?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You have more?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.87068949162702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's got more stuff than you can absorb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to explain most of it to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yes, that's pretty good. So if you want a technical background to the Landers, JPL did the Orbiters and we did the Landers, and they really carried us to the planet and got into orbit at the planet, and then we left the Orbiter at the time and we were responsible for the entry and the landing. But they took us there. They did a good job too. In fact, I like JPL. Very competent bunch of people. Okay, shall I see what else we got?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You have more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I'll make a pile here. Then you can take whatever you want out of that. Now you say you've got this one, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do have The Engineer-in-Charge [by James R. Hansen]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.967432768474467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yes, that's pretty good. So if you want a technical background to the Landers, JPL did the Orbiters and we did the Landers, and they really carried us to the planet and got into orbit at the planet, and then we left the Orbiter at the time and we were responsible for the entry and the landing. But they took us there. They did a good job too. In fact, I like JPL. Very competent bunch of people. Okay, shall I see what else we got?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You have more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I'll make a pile here. Then you can take whatever you want out of that. Now you say you've got this one, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do have The Engineer-in-Charge [by James R. Hansen]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember NOVA? NOVA has a little bit, more or less. It’s got a pretty good description. But also has the context of a lot of other things happening at the same time. This is a repeat of the broadcast. That's the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was interesting, because you had worked on the Lunar Orbiter Project, and when that was over you started working on the Mars, but yet the rest of the country was looking to go to the Moon. So were you keeping up with what was going on during the Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.963814187193853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I'll make a pile here. Then you can take whatever you want out of that. Now you say you've got this one, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do have The Engineer-in-Charge [by James R. Hansen]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember NOVA? NOVA has a little bit, more or less. It’s got a pretty good description. But also has the context of a lot of other things happening at the same time. This is a repeat of the broadcast. That's the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was interesting, because you had worked on the Lunar Orbiter Project, and when that was over you started working on the Mars, but yet the rest of the country was looking to go to the Moon. So were you keeping up with what was going on during the Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we landed on the Moon in '69. An old friend of mine landed on the Moon, [Neil A.] Armstrong, he's a good guy, he was a bright guy. Yes, you're right. I think the rest of the country was lunar-oriented rather than Mars-oriented. But I thought Mars fascinating. Mars was a good science thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work much with Neil Armstrong when he was a pilot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.070904652437614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You remember NOVA? NOVA has a little bit, more or less. It’s got a pretty good description. But also has the context of a lot of other things happening at the same time. This is a repeat of the broadcast. That's the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was interesting, because you had worked on the Lunar Orbiter Project, and when that was over you started working on the Mars, but yet the rest of the country was looking to go to the Moon. So were you keeping up with what was going on during the Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we landed on the Moon in '69. An old friend of mine landed on the Moon, [Neil A.] Armstrong, he's a good guy, he was a bright guy. Yes, you're right. I think the rest of the country was lunar-oriented rather than Mars-oriented. But I thought Mars fascinating. Mars was a good science thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work much with Neil Armstrong when he was a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I knew him but I didn't know him very well. He's a very down-to-earth, extremely serious-minded guy. I think he's taken his mission to the Moon very seriously. He's not going to do anything that's going to destroy his reputation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From things I've read, he takes his life as an engineer and a pilot very seriously too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.301005169375125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we landed on the Moon in '69. An old friend of mine landed on the Moon, [Neil A.] Armstrong, he's a good guy, he was a bright guy. Yes, you're right. I think the rest of the country was lunar-oriented rather than Mars-oriented. But I thought Mars fascinating. Mars was a good science thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you work much with Neil Armstrong when he was a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I knew him but I didn't know him very well. He's a very down-to-earth, extremely serious-minded guy. I think he's taken his mission to the Moon very seriously. He's not going to do anything that's going to destroy his reputation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From things I've read, he takes his life as an engineer and a pilot very seriously too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay, so if you want to borrow that. Let's see what else I got. I don't know. Let me go see. Okay. You can always say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like looking at it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.667783521527916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I knew him but I didn't know him very well. He's a very down-to-earth, extremely serious-minded guy. I think he's taken his mission to the Moon very seriously. He's not going to do anything that's going to destroy his reputation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From things I've read, he takes his life as an engineer and a pilot very seriously too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay, so if you want to borrow that. Let's see what else I got. I don't know. Let me go see. Okay. You can always say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like looking at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what else I got here. My files are obsolete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these old Langley newsletters? Is that what they are?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.186426135031017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay, so if you want to borrow that. Let's see what else I got. I don't know. Let me go see. Okay. You can always say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like looking at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what else I got here. My files are obsolete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these old Langley newsletters? Is that what they are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In one of them there was a write-up of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Center grow a lot after you got here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.318251261145573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what else I got here. My files are obsolete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these old Langley newsletters? Is that what they are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In one of them there was a write-up of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Center grow a lot after you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came here in '42, and it became NASA in '57 or '58 after the Russian Sputnik. So that was 12, 13 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a big increase in employees then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.35361251238397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In one of them there was a write-up of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Center grow a lot after you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came here in '42, and it became NASA in '57 or '58 after the Russian Sputnik. So that was 12, 13 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a big increase in employees then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. There was a big increase in the local attention given to space in the way of local programs, math and science and things like that, because everybody got excited about how good the Soviets were, which turns out to be not all that interesting. Let's see. That's interesting. That's Jim Martin. [Referring to photo of himself and Jim Martin.] We're eating again. Son of a gun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good to know you ate while you were there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.392902791537745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came here in '42, and it became NASA in '57 or '58 after the Russian Sputnik. So that was 12, 13 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a big increase in employees then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. There was a big increase in the local attention given to space in the way of local programs, math and science and things like that, because everybody got excited about how good the Soviets were, which turns out to be not all that interesting. Let's see. That's interesting. That's Jim Martin. [Referring to photo of himself and Jim Martin.] We're eating again. Son of a gun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good to know you ate while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you know [Edgar M.] Cortright?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know the name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.436558657264161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. There was a big increase in the local attention given to space in the way of local programs, math and science and things like that, because everybody got excited about how good the Soviets were, which turns out to be not all that interesting. Let's see. That's interesting. That's Jim Martin. [Referring to photo of himself and Jim Martin.] We're eating again. Son of a gun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good to know you ate while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you know [Edgar M.] Cortright?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know the name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He just moved up to Maine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he Director here for a while? [1968-1975]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.373954063626845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you know [Edgar M.] Cortright?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know the name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He just moved up to Maine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he Director here for a while? [1968-1975]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He came out of [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.].\\n\\n [Referring to another photo] Everybody’s got a tie, must be a workday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be. Are you in that picture?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.41550451514094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He just moved up to Maine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he Director here for a while? [1968-1975]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He came out of [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.].\\n\\n [Referring to another photo] Everybody’s got a tie, must be a workday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be. Are you in that picture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you're getting an award."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.461671683489932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He came out of [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.].\\n\\n [Referring to another photo] Everybody’s got a tie, must be a workday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be. Are you in that picture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you're getting an award."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is an award. Yes, this is Cliff Nelson. So it's probably an award for the Lunar Orbiter. Yes, I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must be your team. Does look like the Lunar Orbiter award. Spacecraft and Operations Team."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.401857426099925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you're getting an award."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is an award. Yes, this is Cliff Nelson. So it's probably an award for the Lunar Orbiter. Yes, I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must be your team. Does look like the Lunar Orbiter award. Spacecraft and Operations Team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was sent to me by a guy named Price who was in the Public Affairs Office at Langley. I think it's a staff photo so it's got a number on it. Don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From 1968. It must have been when you were finished."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.446508251222138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is an award. Yes, this is Cliff Nelson. So it's probably an award for the Lunar Orbiter. Yes, I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must be your team. Does look like the Lunar Orbiter award. Spacecraft and Operations Team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was sent to me by a guy named Price who was in the Public Affairs Office at Langley. I think it's a staff photo so it's got a number on it. Don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From 1968. It must have been when you were finished."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably Lunar Orbiter. I looked at these and there's too many words. These are write-ups for raises and changes in status and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through a lot of reorganizations and changes there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.385009168024597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was sent to me by a guy named Price who was in the Public Affairs Office at Langley. I think it's a staff photo so it's got a number on it. Don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From 1968. It must have been when you were finished."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably Lunar Orbiter. I looked at these and there's too many words. These are write-ups for raises and changes in status and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through a lot of reorganizations and changes there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were lucky. Very little. Actually Nelson was head of one of the other sections in the Instrument Research Division, and when he got to be appointed manager on Lunar Orbiter he came and got me, for reasons I don't understand. But he did that. So it was a quick change from one job to another. Same boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Especially if you liked working for him. Sounds like you did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.427787964471774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably Lunar Orbiter. I looked at these and there's too many words. These are write-ups for raises and changes in status and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through a lot of reorganizations and changes there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were lucky. Very little. Actually Nelson was head of one of the other sections in the Instrument Research Division, and when he got to be appointed manager on Lunar Orbiter he came and got me, for reasons I don't understand. But he did that. So it was a quick change from one job to another. Same boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Especially if you liked working for him. Sounds like you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Okay, let's see what else we got. Oh, this is just more descriptions of the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the most difficult part about designing the Lander?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.253097738301971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were lucky. Very little. Actually Nelson was head of one of the other sections in the Instrument Research Division, and when he got to be appointed manager on Lunar Orbiter he came and got me, for reasons I don't understand. But he did that. So it was a quick change from one job to another. Same boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Especially if you liked working for him. Sounds like you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Okay, let's see what else we got. Oh, this is just more descriptions of the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the most difficult part about designing the Lander?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody knew anything about the entry, that was all supposition, nobody knew much about the surface, nobody knew how soft it was or how hard it was, or whether you'd bounce or disappear in a cloud of dust. The entry was interesting, because we had to come in from orbit at very high speed and take care of the heat pulse. It's worse than reentry on Earth. You're going faster. Well, that had to be dispensed with with an aeroshell, and we did. In fact we had a lifting aeroshell, which was unusual at the time. So we came in at Mars and lifted the thing as though it were a flying airplane. But actually the doing was relatively simple compared to the immense amount of ignorance before we got there. So it was a lot of good guessing and things like that, good guessing.\\n\\n Let's see what else we got here. Mars: The Viking Discoveries [by Bevan M. French]. Oh, these are the reunions. It's hard to believe it's been close to 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been 40."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.1701085981133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Okay, let's see what else we got. Oh, this is just more descriptions of the Lander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the most difficult part about designing the Lander?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody knew anything about the entry, that was all supposition, nobody knew much about the surface, nobody knew how soft it was or how hard it was, or whether you'd bounce or disappear in a cloud of dust. The entry was interesting, because we had to come in from orbit at very high speed and take care of the heat pulse. It's worse than reentry on Earth. You're going faster. Well, that had to be dispensed with with an aeroshell, and we did. In fact we had a lifting aeroshell, which was unusual at the time. So we came in at Mars and lifted the thing as though it were a flying airplane. But actually the doing was relatively simple compared to the immense amount of ignorance before we got there. So it was a lot of good guessing and things like that, good guessing.\\n\\n Let's see what else we got here. Mars: The Viking Discoveries [by Bevan M. French]. Oh, these are the reunions. It's hard to believe it's been close to 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been 40."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it, that's all the gifts I’ve got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You’ve got lots of goodies."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.189009553459222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody knew anything about the entry, that was all supposition, nobody knew much about the surface, nobody knew how soft it was or how hard it was, or whether you'd bounce or disappear in a cloud of dust. The entry was interesting, because we had to come in from orbit at very high speed and take care of the heat pulse. It's worse than reentry on Earth. You're going faster. Well, that had to be dispensed with with an aeroshell, and we did. In fact we had a lifting aeroshell, which was unusual at the time. So we came in at Mars and lifted the thing as though it were a flying airplane. But actually the doing was relatively simple compared to the immense amount of ignorance before we got there. So it was a lot of good guessing and things like that, good guessing.\\n\\n Let's see what else we got here. Mars: The Viking Discoveries [by Bevan M. French]. Oh, these are the reunions. It's hard to believe it's been close to 40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been 40."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it, that's all the gifts I’ve got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You’ve got lots of goodies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. What would you like to take with you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think when we stop for a second I might go back in and get some of the names of the books and things. Let me take a break and we'll do that.\\n\\n [pause]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.321121726065803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it, that's all the gifts I’ve got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You’ve got lots of goodies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. What would you like to take with you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think when we stop for a second I might go back in and get some of the names of the books and things. Let me take a break and we'll do that.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't have much to do with the high-speed research at the time, although we were doing what they called cleanup work, cutting the drag and getting more stability and things like that. It was an interesting time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had a son-in-law in Connecticut."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.467913028962002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. What would you like to take with you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think when we stop for a second I might go back in and get some of the names of the books and things. Let me take a break and we'll do that.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't have much to do with the high-speed research at the time, although we were doing what they called cleanup work, cutting the drag and getting more stability and things like that. It was an interesting time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had a son-in-law in Connecticut."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had one daughter and one son. The daughter is married. My son is not. He lives over in Virginia Beach [Virginia]. Smart boy. All by himself. But my daughter is married, and she's got a daughter, so I do have one grandchild."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they in the engineering field like you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.1865700321800015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't have much to do with the high-speed research at the time, although we were doing what they called cleanup work, cutting the drag and getting more stability and things like that. It was an interesting time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had a son-in-law in Connecticut."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had one daughter and one son. The daughter is married. My son is not. He lives over in Virginia Beach [Virginia]. Smart boy. All by himself. But my daughter is married, and she's got a daughter, so I do have one grandchild."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they in the engineering field like you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but she's doing things I can't even pronounce. She used to work for Howard Hughes Medical Center in Oregon, and she's working on what happens in people's brains, how you think and what chemicals are involved and things like that. Don't ask me what, but fascinating. But anyhow she was here up to about a week ago, and she took my van, and she's going to Florida, and then she's going to travel west, going to look for another job. She was going to Baltimore for her PhD and she didn't like it, too tough. Town was too tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you in New York? You said you started in New York. Were you in New York City when you started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.651744480200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had one daughter and one son. The daughter is married. My son is not. He lives over in Virginia Beach [Virginia]. Smart boy. All by himself. But my daughter is married, and she's got a daughter, so I do have one grandchild."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they in the engineering field like you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but she's doing things I can't even pronounce. She used to work for Howard Hughes Medical Center in Oregon, and she's working on what happens in people's brains, how you think and what chemicals are involved and things like that. Don't ask me what, but fascinating. But anyhow she was here up to about a week ago, and she took my van, and she's going to Florida, and then she's going to travel west, going to look for another job. She was going to Baltimore for her PhD and she didn't like it, too tough. Town was too tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you in New York? You said you started in New York. Were you in New York City when you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was born in the lower part of Manhattan, and when I moved down here I was from the Bronx, about 179th Street. My folks lived up there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's quite a difference for you to move from a city to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.168604978000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but she's doing things I can't even pronounce. She used to work for Howard Hughes Medical Center in Oregon, and she's working on what happens in people's brains, how you think and what chemicals are involved and things like that. Don't ask me what, but fascinating. But anyhow she was here up to about a week ago, and she took my van, and she's going to Florida, and then she's going to travel west, going to look for another job. She was going to Baltimore for her PhD and she didn't like it, too tough. Town was too tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you in New York? You said you started in New York. Were you in New York City when you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was born in the lower part of Manhattan, and when I moved down here I was from the Bronx, about 179th Street. My folks lived up there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's quite a difference for you to move from a city to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, what a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—an old southern town as you referred to it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.742894420000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was born in the lower part of Manhattan, and when I moved down here I was from the Bronx, about 179th Street. My folks lived up there for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's quite a difference for you to move from a city to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, what a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—an old southern town as you referred to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never liked New York, but this wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was quiet here, wasn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.380993800000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, what a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—an old southern town as you referred to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never liked New York, but this wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was quiet here, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's quiet. A lot more outdoors. I never could get used to the segregation though. Pretty violent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your wife was a native of Hampton?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.9788820000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never liked New York, but this wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was quiet here, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's quiet. A lot more outdoors. I never could get used to the segregation though. Pretty violent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your wife was a native of Hampton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's a native of Washington, DC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, then she moved here. Both of you came from cities, remarkable cities, to a small town. Did she come to work at NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.42098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's quiet. A lot more outdoors. I never could get used to the segregation though. Pretty violent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your wife was a native of Hampton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's a native of Washington, DC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, then she moved here. Both of you came from cities, remarkable cities, to a small town. Did she come to work at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she came to work for NACA, right. Her dad was a superintendent of platemaking at the Government Printing Office in Washington, DC. Nice guy too. Unfortunately he retired and decided to call it a day. Isn't that terrible? Could have been smart like me and lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have all the time that you have right now. So it'll be interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's a native of Washington, DC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, then she moved here. Both of you came from cities, remarkable cities, to a small town. Did she come to work at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she came to work for NACA, right. Her dad was a superintendent of platemaking at the Government Printing Office in Washington, DC. Nice guy too. Unfortunately he retired and decided to call it a day. Isn't that terrible? Could have been smart like me and lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have all the time that you have right now. So it'll be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would have been better. He was an interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does your son do in Virginia Beach other than live by himself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she came to work for NACA, right. Her dad was a superintendent of platemaking at the Government Printing Office in Washington, DC. Nice guy too. Unfortunately he retired and decided to call it a day. Isn't that terrible? Could have been smart like me and lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have all the time that you have right now. So it'll be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would have been better. He was an interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does your son do in Virginia Beach other than live by himself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lives by himself in a condominium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't go into the engineering or science field?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lives by himself in a condominium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't go into the engineering or science field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he went to the University of Virginia and became a city planner over at the city called Chesapeake, part of Norfolk I think now. He did that for about 15 or 20 years, decided he had enough, and he just quit, just plain quit, just stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm amazed. He's been able to live off the money he earned from the time he quit, which was a long time ago. Still making out all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you really missed talking with people and engineering part. So are there other parts of working at NACA or NASA that you look back on and remember fondly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he went to the University of Virginia and became a city planner over at the city called Chesapeake, part of Norfolk I think now. He did that for about 15 or 20 years, decided he had enough, and he just quit, just plain quit, just stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm amazed. He's been able to live off the money he earned from the time he quit, which was a long time ago. Still making out all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you really missed talking with people and engineering part. So are there other parts of working at NACA or NASA that you look back on and remember fondly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed all the time I spent with NACA, mostly because NACA was largely a research center then. Didn't hire people. They were bright guys at the laboratory, and many of them. I thought that was a fascinating period of time. Very serious people, very smart, very good researchers. They disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction like with your coworkers when NACA was going to be absorbed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm amazed. He's been able to live off the money he earned from the time he quit, which was a long time ago. Still making out all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you really missed talking with people and engineering part. So are there other parts of working at NACA or NASA that you look back on and remember fondly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed all the time I spent with NACA, mostly because NACA was largely a research center then. Didn't hire people. They were bright guys at the laboratory, and many of them. I thought that was a fascinating period of time. Very serious people, very smart, very good researchers. They disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction like with your coworkers when NACA was going to be absorbed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really very much. The people that worked in wind tunnels just continued in wind tunnels. In fact other than the fact that we did Lunar Orbiter and Viking, the lab didn't change much at all. It just went into high-speed airplanes more and more. Oh, and it did a little work on landing, spacesuits, composites. But by and large it just continued to do what it was doing before. Of course, all of space started here, including the Manned Spacecraft Center [Houston, Texas], which all the guys lived here, worked here, then they moved down to Houston when [Lyndon B.] Johnson decided he needed an industry down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Now did you have any desire to become part of the STG [Space Task Group]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed all the time I spent with NACA, mostly because NACA was largely a research center then. Didn't hire people. They were bright guys at the laboratory, and many of them. I thought that was a fascinating period of time. Very serious people, very smart, very good researchers. They disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction like with your coworkers when NACA was going to be absorbed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really very much. The people that worked in wind tunnels just continued in wind tunnels. In fact other than the fact that we did Lunar Orbiter and Viking, the lab didn't change much at all. It just went into high-speed airplanes more and more. Oh, and it did a little work on landing, spacesuits, composites. But by and large it just continued to do what it was doing before. Of course, all of space started here, including the Manned Spacecraft Center [Houston, Texas], which all the guys lived here, worked here, then they moved down to Houston when [Lyndon B.] Johnson decided he needed an industry down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Now did you have any desire to become part of the STG [Space Task Group]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I was doing pretty interesting work. I didn't want to move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Climate is better here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really very much. The people that worked in wind tunnels just continued in wind tunnels. In fact other than the fact that we did Lunar Orbiter and Viking, the lab didn't change much at all. It just went into high-speed airplanes more and more. Oh, and it did a little work on landing, spacesuits, composites. But by and large it just continued to do what it was doing before. Of course, all of space started here, including the Manned Spacecraft Center [Houston, Texas], which all the guys lived here, worked here, then they moved down to Houston when [Lyndon B.] Johnson decided he needed an industry down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Now did you have any desire to become part of the STG [Space Task Group]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I was doing pretty interesting work. I didn't want to move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Climate is better here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. There's much to be said for either of them. It can get hot down there. I've been down there when it was warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have two seasons in summer, it's hot and hotter."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I was doing pretty interesting work. I didn't want to move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Climate is better here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. There's much to be said for either of them. It can get hot down there. I've been down there when it was warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have two seasons in summer, it's hot and hotter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and wetter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And wetter sometimes. So yes, sounds like you made a good decision."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. There's much to be said for either of them. It can get hot down there. I've been down there when it was warm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have two seasons in summer, it's hot and hotter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and wetter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And wetter sometimes. So yes, sounds like you made a good decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a pretty lab though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's very nice how it's laid out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and wetter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And wetter sometimes. So yes, sounds like you made a good decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a pretty lab though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's very nice how it's laid out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind visiting. I visited them quite a bit when we were doing Viking and quite a bit when we were doing the composites job too. They also did a lot of work on spacesuits that I fiddled around with a little bit from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a pretty lab though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's very nice how it's laid out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind visiting. I visited them quite a bit when we were doing Viking and quite a bit when we were doing the composites job too. They also did a lot of work on spacesuits that I fiddled around with a little bit from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there much difference in working with the different Centers when you had to go there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind visiting. I visited them quite a bit when we were doing Viking and quite a bit when we were doing the composites job too. They also did a lot of work on spacesuits that I fiddled around with a little bit from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there much difference in working with the different Centers when you had to go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Were the people different? No. No, pretty much the same all over. I was always struck by how good the people were in terms of intelligence and reaction to things, technically and otherwise. I miss that. I miss the interactions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're always busy doing something. That's true."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00975:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there much difference in working with the different Centers when you had to go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Were the people different? No. No, pretty much the same all over. I was always struck by how good the people were in terms of intelligence and reaction to things, technically and otherwise. I miss that. I miss the interactions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're always busy doing something. That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always something going on, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, are there other thoughts that you can think of that you want to share with us this morning?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00342:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.22149153301101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yes. The only anomaly we had was that that antenna did pop up sometime. I’m not sure when it did, but we found a dent in the bottom of our helicopter, because it blew the top three or four sections off, and they went shooting on up and made a little ding in the bottom of the helicopter. But I never knew when that happened, when it finally decided to go. If you look at the pictures, there’s the stub of it. There’s like two sections sticking out of the top of the spacecraft when it’s sitting on the deck. Other than that, there were no anomalies. Everything worked just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the next step was you began training for the next [mission]. Or did you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We got what for that time was a live TV deal. The I’ve Got a Secret people called, and George and I and our wives got a paid trip to New York, and they put us on I’ve Got a Secret, which was kind of a—I don’t know. I think the panel just played with us, because there we [were], we were in civilian suits, but we had these sidewall haircuts, which was a real giveaway that we were military. Since it was just a few days after the flight, it wasn’t really difficult to figure out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite an experience, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a couple of young guys, that was quite an experience. Let’s see. I was trying to remember who the panel were. Johnny Carson, Bess Meyerson. I don’t remember who the others were, Henry [Morgan]. Probably none of you ever saw him on that show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We won’t confess that on a recording. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00342:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 44.69054614779001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We got what for that time was a live TV deal. The I’ve Got a Secret people called, and George and I and our wives got a paid trip to New York, and they put us on I’ve Got a Secret, which was kind of a—I don’t know. I think the panel just played with us, because there we [were], we were in civilian suits, but we had these sidewall haircuts, which was a real giveaway that we were military. Since it was just a few days after the flight, it wasn’t really difficult to figure out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite an experience, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a couple of young guys, that was quite an experience. Let’s see. I was trying to remember who the panel were. Johnny Carson, Bess Meyerson. I don’t remember who the others were, Henry [Morgan]. Probably none of you ever saw him on that show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We won’t confess that on a recording. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was an interesting time. It was kind of an interesting highlight from all the work we’d been doing, to get cleaned up and go to New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. That wasn’t a normal deployment for Marines at the time, was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00342:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 46.32282905310001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a couple of young guys, that was quite an experience. Let’s see. I was trying to remember who the panel were. Johnny Carson, Bess Meyerson. I don’t remember who the others were, Henry [Morgan]. Probably none of you ever saw him on that show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We won’t confess that on a recording. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was an interesting time. It was kind of an interesting highlight from all the work we’d been doing, to get cleaned up and go to New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. That wasn’t a normal deployment for Marines at the time, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. When I got back to the station, I got transferred to the Group Headquarters. There was, by that time, a Group Mercury Project Officer, because there was another squadron. The heavies, heavy helicopter squadron, had the mission of doing the retrieval in the event of a launch abort, so they would fly out. And there’s a whole story on—you can pick that up from Pete Armitage’s narrative, because he worked with them. I never did work with that squadron very much.\\n\\n But anyway, they transferred me over to the group to be the Group Project Officer, and I was there for about four months. Then my contract was up, and [I was] offered a position with the Space Task Group, and so I made that transition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that before or after the Grissom—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00342:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.349100000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hired me, and I moved. That was all there was to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who approached you about transferring over to NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I approached them. I talked to Pete Armitage and Bob Thompson, who were the people I had principally worked with for the last couple of years. We got it worked out, so that’s what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now space business was a new business. How did you decide that that’s where you wanted to move your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I worked at that decision. I had a friend who had gotten off active duty a few months before I did, who had gone to work with the airlines. He was calling me once a week, saying, “Man, you need to come and do this.” He [said], “Soon as I get through this first few months of probation,” he says, “I’m going to be making all kinds of money,” and so forth. And he was right for him, because he became the chief pilot for Continental Airlines. That was a pretty high position there.\\n\\n Our squadron flight surgeon told me that I ought to go to medical school. He said, “I’ll guarantee I’ll get you into—,” the medical school he had gone to. I had to give that some serious consideration, but wasn’t really, at that point, sure I wanted to dive into three or four years of really intense educational endeavor again.\\n\\n And [the STG] was just really appealing, because I knew a few of the people. I knew all the crew. I knew quite a few of the people at NASA, and I knew a lot about what the plans were, and I just really had a feeling I wanted to stay involved in that. So that’s what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though it meant a move to Houston, you were ready to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 34.824744640461205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in charge of the NESC. Then he moved up to the Chief Engineer job. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a separate entity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It reported directly to Headquarters. It was a tenant organization at Langley, and reported directly to the Chief Engineer. The Chief Engineer of course reports directly to the Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was formed because of Columbia as you mentioned but also the Vision for Space Exploration announcement was in 2004 [by President George W. Bush], which was right around that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was in on all of that. Let’s see. When did Griffin come in, ’05? Must have been 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was April."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.80527182273467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It reported directly to Headquarters. It was a tenant organization at Langley, and reported directly to the Chief Engineer. The Chief Engineer of course reports directly to the Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was formed because of Columbia as you mentioned but also the Vision for Space Exploration announcement was in 2004 [by President George W. Bush], which was right around that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was in on all of that. Let’s see. When did Griffin come in, ’05? Must have been 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was April."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right when I became Center Director. He changed out almost all the Center Director positions. Most of them if not all of them. Yes, the Vision for Space Exploration came out. We were engaged in what Langley would provide to the Vision for Space Exploration. We lead Ares 1-X from NASA Langley. The kind of work that we had done in lightweight structures, the kind of thing that we had done in, again structurally based, but inflatable habitats was something that we were asked to do, bring that research into the vision. We did work in human factors. Things that we were doing in radiation protection, the lead was at Johnson, but we were on that team, and had done a lot of work over the years with that regard. We supported the Marshall Space Flight Center [Huntsville, Alabama] for research and test on SLS [Space Launch System]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of changes going on all across the Agency at that point, not just at Langley. Do you feel like that stovepiping was something that was a legacy of Langley from years past?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.444621931858498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of work with the historic preservation society. You had to work really closely with them, and then bring in various people to help preserve pieces of it. That was all part of the plan. We did that through the Smithsonian [Institution] and others had come in. It was just a lot of work. Our facilities guys did a tremendous job doing that work, staying closely tied, so that nobody put in any blocks to taking down the building.\\n\\n But I would say the history capturing within our new buildings wasn’t necessarily a part of that. It was more about the legacy, and honoring the legacy of that great place. I think that was what was most important. That was a big part of the culture of our Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any pushback from the historic preservation people in Virginia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my memory we worked pretty well with them, and we never had any roadblocks. But I think it’s because we were just so tightly working with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping them informed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeping them informed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you had these celebrations about the buildings. Were there other things that you did during that time? Because things were changing. The footprint of Langley was changing. There were tunnels that were on the Air Force side that were being demolished, and I think that property was being given back to the Air Force."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.716246590953887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my memory we worked pretty well with them, and we never had any roadblocks. But I think it’s because we were just so tightly working with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping them informed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeping them informed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you had these celebrations about the buildings. Were there other things that you did during that time? Because things were changing. The footprint of Langley was changing. There were tunnels that were on the Air Force side that were being demolished, and I think that property was being given back to the Air Force."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some of them were ours. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. There was a lot going on. The [Space] Shuttle Program was ending. The wind tunnels were going away. You did have a workforce and you had contractor personnel and different people I know at a lot of Centers were concerned about not having a job at the end of things. How did you keep them motivated through that time to keep pushing forward and to look to the future? Because you were building this for the future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.407045997313901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t even know. Yes. That’s changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially since Langley was the mother center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know! Shocking! But we were able to change that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the beginning. I think you were there for the 90th anniversary for Langley."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was there for the 90th of Langley and then the 95th I can remember distinctly. Neil Armstrong had come to the Center. I don’t know if he was on the ASAP, the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, or if he was on the NAC [NASA Advisory Council]. It may have been the NAC. He was at an advisory group, and he had come down to Langley, and we were in a group with the NAC. I was sitting there right by him, and he stood up just impromptu on his own right in that session, and he said, “There are a lot of people that would lay claim to greatness that have come out in the field of aeronautics. But this place. This place is where…” He just gave this impromptu passionate speech about all the things that had come out of NASA Langley. It was so incredible. It was just before our 95th.\\n\\n I knew he couldn’t come to the event, but I wanted to say his words, and I asked him, and he sent me those words and I read them at our 95th. It was just incredible. That was a really cool moment just from getting to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, be great if that had been taped or on film."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.674495552571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know! Shocking! But we were able to change that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the beginning. I think you were there for the 90th anniversary for Langley."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was there for the 90th of Langley and then the 95th I can remember distinctly. Neil Armstrong had come to the Center. I don’t know if he was on the ASAP, the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, or if he was on the NAC [NASA Advisory Council]. It may have been the NAC. He was at an advisory group, and he had come down to Langley, and we were in a group with the NAC. I was sitting there right by him, and he stood up just impromptu on his own right in that session, and he said, “There are a lot of people that would lay claim to greatness that have come out in the field of aeronautics. But this place. This place is where…” He just gave this impromptu passionate speech about all the things that had come out of NASA Langley. It was so incredible. It was just before our 95th.\\n\\n I knew he couldn’t come to the event, but I wanted to say his words, and I asked him, and he sent me those words and I read them at our 95th. It was just incredible. That was a really cool moment just from getting to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, be great if that had been taped or on film."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I wish we had it on film."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being the first woman Center Director and then being there for those anniversaries, you talked about that before and how that wasn’t your main focus. You didn’t really think about it until I believe it was the person that was cleaning your office came and gave you a hug."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.082772836190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was there for the 90th of Langley and then the 95th I can remember distinctly. Neil Armstrong had come to the Center. I don’t know if he was on the ASAP, the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, or if he was on the NAC [NASA Advisory Council]. It may have been the NAC. He was at an advisory group, and he had come down to Langley, and we were in a group with the NAC. I was sitting there right by him, and he stood up just impromptu on his own right in that session, and he said, “There are a lot of people that would lay claim to greatness that have come out in the field of aeronautics. But this place. This place is where…” He just gave this impromptu passionate speech about all the things that had come out of NASA Langley. It was so incredible. It was just before our 95th.\\n\\n I knew he couldn’t come to the event, but I wanted to say his words, and I asked him, and he sent me those words and I read them at our 95th. It was just incredible. That was a really cool moment just from getting to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, be great if that had been taped or on film."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I wish we had it on film."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being the first woman Center Director and then being there for those anniversaries, you talked about that before and how that wasn’t your main focus. You didn’t really think about it until I believe it was the person that was cleaning your office came and gave you a hug."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Katherine Johnson, you mentioned her the last time and how now the building is named after her. But there were a lot of changes. STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math] education was starting to become more important during the time you were there. Talk about what you did as a Center Director—you mentioned the educational aspect—to encourage women—other than being a role model, which you were—but any other things that you did while you were there to encourage women or students."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 15.3677379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what we brought and that’s how we behaved. It changed everything in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were most proud of that. Is there anything during your tenure at Langley that was a hard time or a bad time or anything that comes to mind that was the most difficult thing you had to deal with while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most difficult time was first coming into Langley and facing the 1,000-person reduction in force and all of those things that we were doing as part of that, and getting through that and overcoming that. I think those were the hardest times.\\n\\n I can say towards the end it was great. I loved that team. They were great. When you build a team and you build people that are willing to look across and walk in others’ shoes and think about things that way, you can overcome any problem together. Otherwise you won’t be able to survive. I think that was what has made Langley successful over the years, having a different mindset, and being aware of their own leadership behaviors and how you can contribute to the problem in the way you behave as a leader.\\n\\n You create an environment as a leader. If you’re not conscious of that, that environment might not be a great one and people might leave. I think that’s all part of the work that we did over the years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about Langley that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to mention."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we probably hit it all. I think that’s my memory of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved on. You had an opportunity as you mentioned. You were doing Langley Center Director but you also had moved to Headquarters as Deputy Associate Administrator. Do you want to talk about that move and how that came about and why you chose to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. He’s a great guy, a great leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention? I know you need to get out of here, so I don’t want to keep you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Did you hit everything that you were wanting?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Is there anything that you can think of that you wanted to ask, Jennifer?\n\nI thought of a question but I know you’ve got to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ask it. We can squeeze in one, if I won’t be so long-winded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a very simple answer. But you had mentioned stovepiping at Langley and that you would be willing to give up something at your Center if it meant that this would be for the good of the Agency. I was wondering. Was there something that your Center had to give up?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00885:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Did you hit everything that you were wanting?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Is there anything that you can think of that you wanted to ask, Jennifer?\n\nI thought of a question but I know you’ve got to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ask it. We can squeeze in one, if I won’t be so long-winded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a very simple answer. But you had mentioned stovepiping at Langley and that you would be willing to give up something at your Center if it meant that this would be for the good of the Agency. I was wondering. Was there something that your Center had to give up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We gave up a lot of things. Our Center shrunk by 40 percent over my tenure there. Yes. We let go of a lot of things, we closed things, we demolished things. The whole face of the Center changed. We got smaller, but we got stronger in that process because we were being very strategic about what infrastructure we built and that it was better than what we had.\\n\\n We did a lot of that. Then you started to see that catch on at other Centers as that was rewarded. You could see how that would not have worked if it hadn’t been rewarded, if we had shrunk and then they’d just taken the savings. You drive behavior with what you reward. But Charlie didn’t do that. Charlie, he gave back to the Center to invest in more in a number of ways.\\n\\n Other Centers started looking at their plans and getting more strategic than they were. Then when Robert and I were there and we were trying to build a team and to think that way as a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was wondering. Is it something you didn’t want to give up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.908135075330552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's funny you ask that. First, I'll start with a memory that came back to me when I was sitting in my hut one day. And what actually, what was the impetus behind my application? I was sitting in my hut one day and I was reminded of something that I wrote in fourth or fifth grade. Yeah, it was the strangest thing to recall that. But I remember sitting in my hut and I'm thinking, wow, I'm actually doing what I said I wanted to do when I was in fourth or fifth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I couldn't believe that I bought that into existence and didn't even realize it until that moment. But I was working as a wellness consultant, building wellness programs for companies that had Humana insurance at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were out of college by that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I've already gotten my master's degree, etcetera, in health education. And I earned my bachelor's from Florida State in exercise physiology. And so I was working, doing a lot of prevention education. I was a professor at the community college down in Miami, it's in Broward County specifically, and again building wellness programs as my full-time job, doing a lot of program development and management. And I just got to a point where I felt that I wasn't doing anything impactful. And I remember speaking to a friend of mine, her name is Frantz. And I was, I guess you can say I was complaining about where my life was and feeling unfulfilled and feeling as if I wasn't doing what I wanted to do in terms of helping people.\n\nI've always been very service oriented and I didn't like where my life was. And she said to me, you know, have you ever considered the Peace Corps? I mean, this sounds like it's right up your alley. And I said, no, I've heard of it, but I'm not exactly sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What it is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.47741971548628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The funny thing is, um, the application was due December 1st, and when I received an email that stated that I would get a response within six months, I should get a response by June. I had my interview and I waited and I believe it was March 15th. I still have the email. I was so shocked. I was in the middle of a client meeting and they stepped out for a minute. So I decided to check my phone and looked at my email and I got the email. And I remember just I was so emotional and when my client came back in, they were just like, are you okay? And I said, yeah, I'm okay. I'm just shocked right now. And they said, what happened? I was like, I just got the most amazing news. And I said to them, I'm going to share something to you, but do not tell anyone. But I'm going to be leaving you guys in November. I'm going to the Peace Corps. And they were so excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you heard in March for November. It took that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I arrived in Guinea on December 1st. I didn't realize that I would be leaving in November until maybe about a month ahead of time when I finally received a communication that said, no, you're going to be leaving in November for staging. But yeah, I found out in March and I kept it a secret because I didn't want my employer to know. Only my clients knew because I had a very good relationship with my clients. And they were so excited. And they, they were my biggest cheerleaders, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you applied for Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.704279445111496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my original, um, my original approval was for Benin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And maybe a few months later, I received an email that said, hey, you need to reselect because we made a mistake. You cannot go to Benin because of your eczema. And so I said, okay, well, I'll just move my second choice to my first choice, my third choice to my second, and leave the third option open. I knew I wanted to go to a French speaking country simply because I knew Spanish was a cop out for me. I've been exposed to Spanish all my life, and once upon a time I was fluent. And now, because I don't use it, it's pretty rusty. But I wanted to go to a French speaking country because, one, my background is in a French speaking country as well, Haiti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family's from Haiti?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.449199383457216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And maybe a few months later, I received an email that said, hey, you need to reselect because we made a mistake. You cannot go to Benin because of your eczema. And so I said, okay, well, I'll just move my second choice to my first choice, my third choice to my second, and leave the third option open. I knew I wanted to go to a French speaking country simply because I knew Spanish was a cop out for me. I've been exposed to Spanish all my life, and once upon a time I was fluent. And now, because I don't use it, it's pretty rusty. But I wanted to go to a French speaking country because, one, my background is in a French speaking country as well, Haiti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family's from Haiti?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm Haitian. And although I read French, I listen to French music. I wasn't fluent and I wanted to go somewhere where I can improve that and really understand how to speak French. So I wanted to go to a French speaking country, and Guinea was my second choice and it became my first. And I'm so happy about it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your clients knew. What did your family think about this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.387999314952463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family's from Haiti?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm Haitian. And although I read French, I listen to French music. I wasn't fluent and I wanted to go somewhere where I can improve that and really understand how to speak French. So I wanted to go to a French speaking country, and Guinea was my second choice and it became my first. And I'm so happy about it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your clients knew. What did your family think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did not know anything. And she still is, she still will tell you. She still doesn't understand what the Peace Corps is and why I would do it. But all of my extended family were extremely excited for me. They were very proud of the fact that I followed my heart and I did something for me. I've always been one to do something for everyone else, and I never, ever did anything for myself. And this was something I did for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are you first generation Haitian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.54222146105829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm Haitian. And although I read French, I listen to French music. I wasn't fluent and I wanted to go somewhere where I can improve that and really understand how to speak French. So I wanted to go to a French speaking country, and Guinea was my second choice and it became my first. And I'm so happy about it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your clients knew. What did your family think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did not know anything. And she still is, she still will tell you. She still doesn't understand what the Peace Corps is and why I would do it. But all of my extended family were extremely excited for me. They were very proud of the fact that I followed my heart and I did something for me. I've always been one to do something for everyone else, and I never, ever did anything for myself. And this was something I did for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are you first generation Haitian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. But you grew up in the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.269134956731435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did not know anything. And she still is, she still will tell you. She still doesn't understand what the Peace Corps is and why I would do it. But all of my extended family were extremely excited for me. They were very proud of the fact that I followed my heart and I did something for me. I've always been one to do something for everyone else, and I never, ever did anything for myself. And this was something I did for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are you first generation Haitian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. But you grew up in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Born and raised in the, in Miami, Florida. First born. So first generation American. And my parents immigrated into the U.S. around their teens, late teens. And um so I had a lot of struggles. And in terms of language barriers, I had to teach myself a lot growing up for school because I couldn't go to my parents and say, help me. They didn't speak English. So, um, so they spoke Creole and both of them speak French. And it's funny because my mother said, well, it took you going to the Peace Corps to finally want to learn French. When you were a kid, you were absolutely opposed to it. I thought French was just too difficult and I did not want to. But my dad, who spoke Spanish, it was easier for me to pick up Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But of course, Haitian French and Guinean French probably are not that much?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.850783897199303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Born and raised in the, in Miami, Florida. First born. So first generation American. And my parents immigrated into the U.S. around their teens, late teens. And um so I had a lot of struggles. And in terms of language barriers, I had to teach myself a lot growing up for school because I couldn't go to my parents and say, help me. They didn't speak English. So, um, so they spoke Creole and both of them speak French. And it's funny because my mother said, well, it took you going to the Peace Corps to finally want to learn French. When you were a kid, you were absolutely opposed to it. I thought French was just too difficult and I did not want to. But my dad, who spoke Spanish, it was easier for me to pick up Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But of course, Haitian French and Guinean French probably are not that much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, I would say Haitian French is more like French in France, more formal compared to the French that I learned in Guinea. But I now know the grammatical rules and can differentiate between French and Creole now. So it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continued working and then you quit your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.611982107999225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, I would say Haitian French is more like French in France, more formal compared to the French that I learned in Guinea. But I now know the grammatical rules and can differentiate between French and Creole now. So it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continued working and then you quit your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I finally told my job the first week of November. I sent an email to my supervisor, my vice president, and I can't remember what the other person's position was. And my supervisor was like, well, can you let me know ahead of time? I said, no, I need to talk to all of you at the same time. I think he was nervous that it was going to be something negative because he wanted to get ahead of it before the VP was notified. And I remember they all, all three of them sat on the other side of the table and I said, well, um, this is my two weeks’ notice and this is what's going to happen. And they were so shocked. The vice president, and I can't remember what Jackie's position were. They were so excited.\n\nAnd my manager was concerned. He said, are you sure? You know, what kind of living arrangements are you going to be? And I said, it's okay. I'm going to be okay. You know, I remember what it was like the first time I went to Haiti and using a latrine outdoors and have to use a bucket to get water out of a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are well prepared having been in Haiti."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.568869008888026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you continued working and then you quit your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I finally told my job the first week of November. I sent an email to my supervisor, my vice president, and I can't remember what the other person's position was. And my supervisor was like, well, can you let me know ahead of time? I said, no, I need to talk to all of you at the same time. I think he was nervous that it was going to be something negative because he wanted to get ahead of it before the VP was notified. And I remember they all, all three of them sat on the other side of the table and I said, well, um, this is my two weeks’ notice and this is what's going to happen. And they were so shocked. The vice president, and I can't remember what Jackie's position were. They were so excited.\n\nAnd my manager was concerned. He said, are you sure? You know, what kind of living arrangements are you going to be? And I said, it's okay. I'm going to be okay. You know, I remember what it was like the first time I went to Haiti and using a latrine outdoors and have to use a bucket to get water out of a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are well prepared having been in Haiti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I actually did not expect for me to really have that same type of living in Guinea. I didn't expect it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you expect?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.743187787653362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I finally told my job the first week of November. I sent an email to my supervisor, my vice president, and I can't remember what the other person's position was. And my supervisor was like, well, can you let me know ahead of time? I said, no, I need to talk to all of you at the same time. I think he was nervous that it was going to be something negative because he wanted to get ahead of it before the VP was notified. And I remember they all, all three of them sat on the other side of the table and I said, well, um, this is my two weeks’ notice and this is what's going to happen. And they were so shocked. The vice president, and I can't remember what Jackie's position were. They were so excited.\n\nAnd my manager was concerned. He said, are you sure? You know, what kind of living arrangements are you going to be? And I said, it's okay. I'm going to be okay. You know, I remember what it was like the first time I went to Haiti and using a latrine outdoors and have to use a bucket to get water out of a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are well prepared having been in Haiti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I actually did not expect for me to really have that same type of living in Guinea. I didn't expect it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you expect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know what to expect."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.159097541837067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I actually did not expect for me to really have that same type of living in Guinea. I didn't expect it at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you expect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know what to expect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't even research Guinea. Nothing. I said I wanted to go in with an open mind. I did not want to know anything about what's going on politically, what the environment was like. I just wanted to go there and learn while I was there, and I'm glad I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you all meet up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.28788615759674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know what to expect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't even research Guinea. Nothing. I said I wanted to go in with an open mind. I did not want to know anything about what's going on politically, what the environment was like. I just wanted to go there and learn while I was there, and I'm glad I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you all meet up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all met in Philadelphia. We had our staging on November 27th. Oh, there's a story behind that. I was supposed to arrive that Sunday, but when I got to the airport in Miami International Airport, my suitcase broke and it was like, oh my God, I panicked. I ended up missing my flight because I had to leave the airport to get a new suitcase. It was a suitcase that I've had for a long time, and I cried my heart out and I was like, oh my God, what am I going to do? I missed my plane and it was the most emotional day ever because everything was going wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had nothing to do with a suitcase probably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.98654017510749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't even research Guinea. Nothing. I said I wanted to go in with an open mind. I did not want to know anything about what's going on politically, what the environment was like. I just wanted to go there and learn while I was there, and I'm glad I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you all meet up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all met in Philadelphia. We had our staging on November 27th. Oh, there's a story behind that. I was supposed to arrive that Sunday, but when I got to the airport in Miami International Airport, my suitcase broke and it was like, oh my God, I panicked. I ended up missing my flight because I had to leave the airport to get a new suitcase. It was a suitcase that I've had for a long time, and I cried my heart out and I was like, oh my God, what am I going to do? I missed my plane and it was the most emotional day ever because everything was going wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had nothing to do with a suitcase probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was like everything is going wrong and I'm not there at the time that I'm supposed to be. So I called Peace Corps and there were no other flights leaving for Philadelphia out of the Miami International Airport. It was just a disaster. And so eventually Peace Corps found a flight leaving from the Fort Lauderdale airport later that evening. And so I got my new suitcase, went back home, relaxed for a while, and then went to the Fort Lauderdale airport and arrived to my staging extremely late. So I finally got to meet my group the very next day. When I did arrive to that evening, I there was one gentleman who saw me with my suitcases and, um, my suitcase and my duffel bag. And he says, are you here from the Peace Corps? And I said, yeah. He was like, I'm Andrew. And he gave me a little rundown and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.971037253219123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was like everything is going wrong and I'm not there at the time that I'm supposed to be. So I called Peace Corps and there were no other flights leaving for Philadelphia out of the Miami International Airport. It was just a disaster. And so eventually Peace Corps found a flight leaving from the Fort Lauderdale airport later that evening. And so I got my new suitcase, went back home, relaxed for a while, and then went to the Fort Lauderdale airport and arrived to my staging extremely late. So I finally got to meet my group the very next day. When I did arrive to that evening, I there was one gentleman who saw me with my suitcases and, um, my suitcase and my duffel bag. And he says, are you here from the Peace Corps? And I said, yeah. He was like, I'm Andrew. And he gave me a little rundown and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Andrew was a volunteer that was part of my group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was good. Andrew became one of my good friends. It's funny because he had to remind me that it was him that that I met at the hotel that day. But we became very good friends while we were in Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so was it the next day then that you flew off or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.07893028135458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Andrew was a volunteer that was part of my group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was good. Andrew became one of my good friends. It's funny because he had to remind me that it was him that that I met at the hotel that day. But we became very good friends while we were in Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so was it the next day then that you flew off or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We spent three days in Philadelphia in staging at that time. We also had training for Let Girls Learn so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Let Girls Learn?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.754366979282864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was good. Andrew became one of my good friends. It's funny because he had to remind me that it was him that that I met at the hotel that day. But we became very good friends while we were in Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so was it the next day then that you flew off or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We spent three days in Philadelphia in staging at that time. We also had training for Let Girls Learn so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Let Girls Learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an initiative that was started by Michelle Obama to really promote the education of girls throughout the world, those who are in countries that had women that were in a disenfranchised situation. And so we were learning about the initiative and how to pretty much implement that in our communities because it was a project that was very active in Guinea. We needed to be aware of it. And so we spent three days in Philadelphia in staging and on November 30th we got on a bus and drove to New York. And from New York we took our flight and were on our way. 30 hours later, actually, 28 hours later, we arrived to Guinea late at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you arrive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.50485219920318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We spent three days in Philadelphia in staging at that time. We also had training for Let Girls Learn so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Let Girls Learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an initiative that was started by Michelle Obama to really promote the education of girls throughout the world, those who are in countries that had women that were in a disenfranchised situation. And so we were learning about the initiative and how to pretty much implement that in our communities because it was a project that was very active in Guinea. We needed to be aware of it. And so we spent three days in Philadelphia in staging and on November 30th we got on a bus and drove to New York. And from New York we took our flight and were on our way. 30 hours later, actually, 28 hours later, we arrived to Guinea late at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you arrive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Conakry. And we arrived late at night. We went through customs, and I remember the airport being extremely hot. I still have the video, actually, of me recording everyone. And I said, welcome to Guinea, guys, we're here. We made it. And we got to the Peace Corps house and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.449835776892424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an initiative that was started by Michelle Obama to really promote the education of girls throughout the world, those who are in countries that had women that were in a disenfranchised situation. And so we were learning about the initiative and how to pretty much implement that in our communities because it was a project that was very active in Guinea. We needed to be aware of it. And so we spent three days in Philadelphia in staging and on November 30th we got on a bus and drove to New York. And from New York we took our flight and were on our way. 30 hours later, actually, 28 hours later, we arrived to Guinea late at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you arrive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Conakry. And we arrived late at night. We went through customs, and I remember the airport being extremely hot. I still have the video, actually, of me recording everyone. And I said, welcome to Guinea, guys, we're here. We made it. And we got to the Peace Corps house and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 who met at staging and 30 went overseas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.49981752988047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Conakry. And we arrived late at night. We went through customs, and I remember the airport being extremely hot. I still have the video, actually, of me recording everyone. And I said, welcome to Guinea, guys, we're here. We made it. And we got to the Peace Corps house and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 who met at staging and 30 went overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 30 of us went over. In fact, my group, we were 100 percent up until our in-service training. And after our training, one person was medically evacuated. So we had a very good retention rate for my group compared to the other groups that were still in-country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you arrived at the airport. Did it look like Port au Prince airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.777575033200524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 who met at staging and 30 went overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 30 of us went over. In fact, my group, we were 100 percent up until our in-service training. And after our training, one person was medically evacuated. So we had a very good retention rate for my group compared to the other groups that were still in-country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you arrived at the airport. Did it look like Port au Prince airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, not at all. It was smaller than the Port au Prince airport. Port au Prince airport has air conditioning all throughout. Here where we were, it was very warm. We had air conditioning when we finally got to the customs area. And then we um. [phone ringing]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keep going. Just keep going. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.744373373301023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fell asleep because it was the longest trip ever. And it's funny. Andrew, uh, not Andrew. It was Alex. Alex, one of my group mates. He reminded me during our IST when we reached 100 percent, he reminded me, he said, you know, Shasha, remember that announcement you made in the plane? And I said, what? And he said, I remember I thought you were crazy because you got up and you looked at all of us and you said, listen, I better see every single one of you in February 2019. And I said, none of you are going to quit. We're going to all make this together and I'd better see all of you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the mix of men and what? I don't even know, what was, what program were you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in the health program and in staging, I want to say it was about 17 of us who were health volunteers, and then the other half was agroforestry. So we staged together. We also had education already in country, but they come into Guinea during the summer, right before the new school year begins. So health and agroforestry, we always arrive around December of that same year. And so we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There had been groups before in both of those programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And so we were the, um, technically the third group to come into Guinea after the Ebola outbreak and the Ebola evacuation. And that summer prior, we had two groups, technically three groups arrived together, not just our education, which is G-28, Group 28, but G-29 arrived two weeks after them for their training because they were really trying to get the volunteers into Guinea. So they, um, they put the G-29 health and agroforestry volunteers arriving about two weeks after that education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is how long after Ebola outbreak?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.38263708144558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in the health program and in staging, I want to say it was about 17 of us who were health volunteers, and then the other half was agroforestry. So we staged together. We also had education already in country, but they come into Guinea during the summer, right before the new school year begins. So health and agroforestry, we always arrive around December of that same year. And so we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There had been groups before in both of those programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And so we were the, um, technically the third group to come into Guinea after the Ebola outbreak and the Ebola evacuation. And that summer prior, we had two groups, technically three groups arrived together, not just our education, which is G-28, Group 28, but G-29 arrived two weeks after them for their training because they were really trying to get the volunteers into Guinea. So they, um, they put the G-29 health and agroforestry volunteers arriving about two weeks after that education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is how long after Ebola outbreak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I honestly cannot tell you when the, when Guinea was cleared. I do know when they had volunteers in 2014, they were evacuated. I think it was 2014. They were evacuated and some of them actually returned as Response or were part of our groups that arrived in 2016."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So what was the training like? What happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.299551952401949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I honestly cannot tell you when the, when Guinea was cleared. I do know when they had volunteers in 2014, they were evacuated. I think it was 2014. They were evacuated and some of them actually returned as Response or were part of our groups that arrived in 2016."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So what was the training like? What happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training. Oh, my goodness. I just remember that wall of the schedule, of all the things we had to do. It was the longest, most excruciating process ever, simply because of the fact that it was an all- day thing from 8:00 to 5:00 p.m. And that was the first time I probably fell asleep at 7:00 p.m. because it was so exhausting. But training. The agroforestry group and the health group, we trained separately from one another. The agro group, they lived in a completely different village from the health group. We lived in Toumania. T-O-U-M-A-N-I-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "T-O-U-M-A?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "N-I-A. So the health group we lived in Toumania, we did all of our trainings in Toumania. And the agroforestry group, they did all of their trainings in, um, Yorokoguia. I can't even tell you the spelling because I saw two different spellings on the roads, but they lived in Yorokoguia. In Toumania, we had health posts and health, excuse me, health centers. So we did a lot of our trainings there. We did a lot of trainings in understanding how to deal with maternal and child nutrition. WASH, which is water. Wow, what is the A? I can't recall the A, but sanitation and hygiene training. We did a lot of work on malaria and other communicable diseases that were prevalent within Guinea and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were being trained as community health workers, is that it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.65376784247154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "N-I-A. So the health group we lived in Toumania, we did all of our trainings in Toumania. And the agroforestry group, they did all of their trainings in, um, Yorokoguia. I can't even tell you the spelling because I saw two different spellings on the roads, but they lived in Yorokoguia. In Toumania, we had health posts and health, excuse me, health centers. So we did a lot of our trainings there. We did a lot of trainings in understanding how to deal with maternal and child nutrition. WASH, which is water. Wow, what is the A? I can't recall the A, but sanitation and hygiene training. We did a lot of work on malaria and other communicable diseases that were prevalent within Guinea and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were being trained as community health workers, is that it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. That's what we were. We were health educators. Our official title, or official title of the program that we applied to, was for health education. But again, our primary focus was maternal and child health and malaria. And so the only time we saw our agroforestry group was when we had trainings at the Peace Corps training center together in safety, medical issues for our personal medical, for doing our vaccinations if we were behind on vaccinations. That was the only time we saw our agroforestry team because we were a distance from one another. So the. Go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, just in my era, we all got our shots before we left the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did as well. But some people were either missing shots. For example, I never had the flu shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got it on your own I guess. Our training was in country, in the United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.504186491635046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. That's what we were. We were health educators. Our official title, or official title of the program that we applied to, was for health education. But again, our primary focus was maternal and child health and malaria. And so the only time we saw our agroforestry group was when we had trainings at the Peace Corps training center together in safety, medical issues for our personal medical, for doing our vaccinations if we were behind on vaccinations. That was the only time we saw our agroforestry team because we were a distance from one another. So the. Go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, just in my era, we all got our shots before we left the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did as well. But some people were either missing shots. For example, I never had the flu shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got it on your own I guess. Our training was in country, in the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Because in the sixties it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the training was here. So you just got the shots on your own before you went to Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.84467468103092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Because in the sixties it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the training was here. So you just got the shots on your own before you went to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got my shots on my own. That was the only way I can get my medical clearance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "However, one shot that I had to get while I was there was the flu shot because I opted out of it when I was here and they were like, no, you have to get it. I was upset by that because I ended up getting sick from the flu shot and, um, excuse me. And other than that. Other than that, I really and I really had, I enjoyed my training because I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, you had French training as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.27186075670102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got my shots on my own. That was the only way I can get my medical clearance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "However, one shot that I had to get while I was there was the flu shot because I opted out of it when I was here and they were like, no, you have to get it. I was upset by that because I ended up getting sick from the flu shot and, um, excuse me. And other than that. Other than that, I really and I really had, I enjoyed my training because I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, you had French training as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had French training as well. And my French teacher actually never changed during the entire process, even when I transitioned into the local language. His name was Mao and, M-A-O. And um, he, um, he taught us French. He was very funny. We had a, our group was about four of us in each training session. It was small training sessions based on our language level. I had originally tested as, um, I think it was intermediate low. Yeah, an intermediate low. I did my best, but I kept mixing Creole a lot in my communications and so I tested as intermediate low. And eventually I think by the end of my training, I was advanced low."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have cultural?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 26.968734174112246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "However, one shot that I had to get while I was there was the flu shot because I opted out of it when I was here and they were like, no, you have to get it. I was upset by that because I ended up getting sick from the flu shot and, um, excuse me. And other than that. Other than that, I really and I really had, I enjoyed my training because I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, you had French training as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had French training as well. And my French teacher actually never changed during the entire process, even when I transitioned into the local language. His name was Mao and, M-A-O. And um, he, um, he taught us French. He was very funny. We had a, our group was about four of us in each training session. It was small training sessions based on our language level. I had originally tested as, um, I think it was intermediate low. Yeah, an intermediate low. I did my best, but I kept mixing Creole a lot in my communications and so I tested as intermediate low. And eventually I think by the end of my training, I was advanced low."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have cultural?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shock?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training, no, cultural training as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.609867663637015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. You know, there were so many people who were just like, but you're not white. Where are you from? You know, where are you from, from Africa? And I mean, because they were just baffled by that. And I explained that, you know, you know, the America. America is not just the United States. Most people think of America and they only consider the United States. But you have Central America. You have South America. And I represent North and Central America. And I shared in my presentation to them, after introducing myself in Creole, I shared with them in French the history of Haiti and where I come from and all about who I am. And it was very nerve wracking because I was like, oh my God, I don't feel confident in my French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Haitians came from West Africa as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so and I explained that. I said, you know, I don't know exactly where I come from, but in Haiti, we, you know, we gained our independence so early and so many of us were freshly from Africa. We still have a lot of our African roots, but they come from so many different tribes. And I remember even while learning the local languages, it, I remember I wrote it. I still have that journal entry where I talked about how learning their language helped me to better understand my own Creole language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the most fascinating thing because understanding how contextual theirs were, I was like, oh my God, I understand Haitians better now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were the actual words from different? The Creole words were the same as the West African, the Guinean local ones?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.71218970223596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I was able to pick up the Mandinka, uh, Malinke language fairly quickly and, uh, it hurts because sometimes I'm like, wow, I don't have that around me every day anymore. I don't want to forget it. So constantly I'm looking at notes that I have on my phone and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they're probably Guineans here with whom you could speak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, there are. But most of them are from the Fula tribe, which is a different language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had training in four different local languages and some of us had a language that was very small but in the area that they were assigned to. I was assigned into Upper Guinea, which is a predominantly the Mandinka people. The Mandingo is the informal name that we call them here in America. But they're Mandinka and in central part of, uh, of Guinea, which is the Fouta Djallon, that's the Fula tribe. And they speak Pular. And so some people were learning Pular. But all of us had basic training in Susu because when we trained in Conakry, Toumania, and Yorokoguia, that was the Susu tribe, which is actually another sector of the Mali empire. So they're part of the Mandinka family as well, but they speak Susu. So all of us have basic Susu in order for us to survive while we were in our training there. But once we were assigned to our villages, then we learned the language there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did people speak French as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.130890789405337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was deep. But luckily, two of the volunteers who served in Faranah with me were also lifeguards. So I was like, great, you guys are lifeguards, you can protect me. Make sure I make it when I get down. It was my very first time ever. In fact, I remember it was in February because it was the same day I also broke my fever. I had a very bad fever that entire week, and I finally broke my fever. Didn't think I was going to be able to meet up with them. And I did. And I was so happy to just jump off that cliff. It took me three tries because I was so nervous and I remember the third try. I said to myself, you know, Charlaine, you took a chance. You took a risk. You're here in Guinea. Clearly, you're brave enough and you're surviving. Just do it. Just go. And finally I jumped and, uh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. A good memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in training and then you were assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was actually outside of training. I realized that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that was beyond it. But so you were assigned to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.272704678278192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was actually outside of training. I realized that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that was beyond it. But so you were assigned to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to a village called Lyasando."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lyasando."}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-Y-A-S-A-N-D-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lyasando was the name of the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.414116309197992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to a village called Lyasando."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lyasando."}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-Y-A-S-A-N-D-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lyasando was the name of the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was actually Lyasando District, which included several other surrounding villages that were deeper into the forest areas in which my health posts serviced as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only one to assign there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.682351454664435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-Y-A-S-A-N-D-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lyasando was the name of the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was actually Lyasando District, which included several other surrounding villages that were deeper into the forest areas in which my health posts serviced as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only one to assign there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we are the, we are alone in our villages pretty much. And I'm sure you were, you had the same experience. The nearest volunteer to me was 11 kilometers away, and she just moved into that village right before I moved into my village because she changed from education and became a health volunteer instead. So they had to put her in a village that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the village. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.091501616293817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was actually Lyasando District, which included several other surrounding villages that were deeper into the forest areas in which my health posts serviced as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only one to assign there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we are the, we are alone in our villages pretty much. And I'm sure you were, you had the same experience. The nearest volunteer to me was 11 kilometers away, and she just moved into that village right before I moved into my village because she changed from education and became a health volunteer instead. So they had to put her in a village that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the village. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God. Lyasando. It was dark. There was pretty much no electricity. But I loved Lyasando. I was, I hardly left my village. It was pretty bad. I hardly left because I loved the community I was with. I adopted a family as my own, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.927779773202241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God. Lyasando. It was dark. There was pretty much no electricity. But I loved Lyasando. I was, I hardly left my village. It was pretty bad. I hardly left because I loved the community I was with. I adopted a family as my own, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They became my host family. I said, you're my family. You know, I called Tata. Her name is Aminata, but everyone called her Tata. She was also a sashwan in the health post. Basically, she was also a, um, I'm trying to get the translation in my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Midwife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A midwife. But she was a much older lady and I adopted her family basically because I lived right around them. And literally all of the huts that were around me in the homes were her family and her extended family. It was her, her sister wife. Her son was right next to me. Her sister wife's son was on the other side of me. And their husband's home was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sister wife. What is sister wife?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.92318490518795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A midwife. But she was a much older lady and I adopted her family basically because I lived right around them. And literally all of the huts that were around me in the homes were her family and her extended family. It was her, her sister wife. Her son was right next to me. Her sister wife's son was on the other side of me. And their husband's home was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sister wife. What is sister wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was polygamy. Polygamy is very rich in Guinea. Most families are two up to four wives. And it's funny because the entire time I was there, I only met their husband once. Once. I never saw him in it. Just because I was walking in a street one day and he called me. He says, Thinkari. That's my Malinke, my Mandinka name. And I'll tell you about that in a moment. And I was like, who is this guy? He was like, yeah, I'm Tata's husband and Kolanko's cousin. I mean, husband. And I was like, oh, you know, nice to meet you, Mr. Kamara. It was the first time I met him. But my Susu name when I was in training, I was given, I was named Mabinty Ture. M-A-B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait. M-A-B."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-T-Y. Ture. The tradition is in Guinea is that you are named after someone in the family and I was actually named after my host sister in training, um, and she was my host sister and they named me after her. So when our host mom, her, which is her older sister actually, would call us, she would call her Bintu and call me Binty. So that's how I knew which one she was referring to. So uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, just to back up. You had host, you were living with host families in training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.914649894653278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was polygamy. Polygamy is very rich in Guinea. Most families are two up to four wives. And it's funny because the entire time I was there, I only met their husband once. Once. I never saw him in it. Just because I was walking in a street one day and he called me. He says, Thinkari. That's my Malinke, my Mandinka name. And I'll tell you about that in a moment. And I was like, who is this guy? He was like, yeah, I'm Tata's husband and Kolanko's cousin. I mean, husband. And I was like, oh, you know, nice to meet you, Mr. Kamara. It was the first time I met him. But my Susu name when I was in training, I was given, I was named Mabinty Ture. M-A-B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait. M-A-B."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-T-Y. Ture. The tradition is in Guinea is that you are named after someone in the family and I was actually named after my host sister in training, um, and she was my host sister and they named me after her. So when our host mom, her, which is her older sister actually, would call us, she would call her Bintu and call me Binty. So that's how I knew which one she was referring to. So uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, just to back up. You had host, you were living with host families in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the village, you had your, did you have your own hut?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.016277660725864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-T-Y. Ture. The tradition is in Guinea is that you are named after someone in the family and I was actually named after my host sister in training, um, and she was my host sister and they named me after her. So when our host mom, her, which is her older sister actually, would call us, she would call her Bintu and call me Binty. So that's how I knew which one she was referring to. So uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, just to back up. You had host, you were living with host families in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the village, you had your, did you have your own hut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had my own hut. I had no host family. All I had was a counterpart who was the, uh, the chief of the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your hut like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.240308511917627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the village, you had your, did you have your own hut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had my own hut. I had no host family. All I had was a counterpart who was the, uh, the chief of the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your hut like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved my hut. I can show you a picture later. I referred to it as my studio apartment. It was a round hut, no windows, with thatch roofing. And I had a twin sized bed. A table. Two chairs. Three chairs. I had four chairs. One of them I ended up putting outside so I can put my little stove on so I could cook outdoors. And I had three chairs and that was it. And my mosquito netting. But I bought some paintings from Haiti, so I hung up my paintings from Haiti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where, did you have water outside or where was the water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.489231679908475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had my own hut. I had no host family. All I had was a counterpart who was the, uh, the chief of the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your hut like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved my hut. I can show you a picture later. I referred to it as my studio apartment. It was a round hut, no windows, with thatch roofing. And I had a twin sized bed. A table. Two chairs. Three chairs. I had four chairs. One of them I ended up putting outside so I can put my little stove on so I could cook outdoors. And I had three chairs and that was it. And my mosquito netting. But I bought some paintings from Haiti, so I hung up my paintings from Haiti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where, did you have water outside or where was the water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Luckily, right in the center of, uh, I want to say it's, I want to call it a cul de sac, but it wasn't really a cul de sac. Maybe about ten feet in front of my hut there was a well. And if I had gone to the main road where most villagers go, they get water in the forage, which is the pump. And I had a pit latrine as my bathroom outdoors. And I was so excited because my village had just built it for me, you know, for my arrival. I was so excited. It was, um. And the reason why that is, is because when I was in training, I was. My sister was surprised I did the Peace Corps because I don't do germs. I don't do dirty bathrooms or anything like that. And if it's icky, I'm uncomfortable. So the pit latrines were always icky to me, but I was so excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This cured you of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.184236641862313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Luckily, right in the center of, uh, I want to say it's, I want to call it a cul de sac, but it wasn't really a cul de sac. Maybe about ten feet in front of my hut there was a well. And if I had gone to the main road where most villagers go, they get water in the forage, which is the pump. And I had a pit latrine as my bathroom outdoors. And I was so excited because my village had just built it for me, you know, for my arrival. I was so excited. It was, um. And the reason why that is, is because when I was in training, I was. My sister was surprised I did the Peace Corps because I don't do germs. I don't do dirty bathrooms or anything like that. And if it's icky, I'm uncomfortable. So the pit latrines were always icky to me, but I was so excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This cured you of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this cured me of it because my pit latrine wasn't closed, which it was open. So that meant for me, I did not have to worry about roaches gathering and, you know, me just, you know, spider webs or anything like that. And I loved the fact that it was open. So I took a shower underneath the sun, the stars and the moon, and I got hot water by leaving my bucket outdoors. And so in the evening I had a nice warm shower, or bucket bath, if you will. So I thoroughly enjoyed my red door to open into my latrine. And it was just this open space with a hole on the ground with two cinder blocks so that I can squat down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about your job. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked in the health post. My job was really to do a lot of health education. So I end up helping the women with breast feeding, teaching them best practices for breastfeeding, teaching them ways to combat malnutrition and other diarrheal diseases in their children as well as their homes, you know, their households."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had learned all of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.281387731989218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my brutal honesty about my position as an individual living in America, being of an immigrant family, obviously, because of, you know, the differences in race, I helped them to better understand. Listen, I'm more like you than you think. And I was very honest with them about everything. We, there was at one point, for goodness sake, that they didn't quite understand what I was talking about in terms of the history of America and why I didn't know where in Africa I came from. And I shared with them Haitian history. They were very, they were very attentive. And I remember one night, you know, someone was like, they don't understand. And I said, you know what? I had my hard drive and I had the Roots. The whole entire Roots collection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, okay. It was all in English, but I said to them, I can explain to you what was happening, but I'm going to play this. And it turned into a nightly thing. And the crowds just grew more and more and more, and we would have discussions late at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember one time it was 3:00 in the morning and we were all sitting in my host brother's boutique and there were all these teenagers and people we would, they were asking questions. They were, they were very, they understood what was happening. And every night it was like, Charlaine, are we going to watch the next one? And one night when we ended at 3:00 in the morning is because they wanted to keep going. They wanted to keep going. And my host brother had to keep buying gas to put in a generator, so we could continue to watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed it on your computer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.534875257765798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, okay. It was all in English, but I said to them, I can explain to you what was happening, but I'm going to play this. And it turned into a nightly thing. And the crowds just grew more and more and more, and we would have discussions late at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember one time it was 3:00 in the morning and we were all sitting in my host brother's boutique and there were all these teenagers and people we would, they were asking questions. They were, they were very, they understood what was happening. And every night it was like, Charlaine, are we going to watch the next one? And one night when we ended at 3:00 in the morning is because they wanted to keep going. They wanted to keep going. And my host brother had to keep buying gas to put in a generator, so we could continue to watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed it on your computer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, uh, he had like this little DVD player device and I had it on a USB and I was able to, we were able to play it that way. At that time, I wasn't comfortable with showing that I had a computer out yet. And in fact, at that time I hadn't even pulled out my own computer. It took me about three months to finally say, wait, Charlaine, you have a computer, pull it out, maybe watch a movie one day. It took me a long time because I was always out in my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your language was really good by that time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.927639175295331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember one time it was 3:00 in the morning and we were all sitting in my host brother's boutique and there were all these teenagers and people we would, they were asking questions. They were, they were very, they understood what was happening. And every night it was like, Charlaine, are we going to watch the next one? And one night when we ended at 3:00 in the morning is because they wanted to keep going. They wanted to keep going. And my host brother had to keep buying gas to put in a generator, so we could continue to watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed it on your computer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, uh, he had like this little DVD player device and I had it on a USB and I was able to, we were able to play it that way. At that time, I wasn't comfortable with showing that I had a computer out yet. And in fact, at that time I hadn't even pulled out my own computer. It took me about three months to finally say, wait, Charlaine, you have a computer, pull it out, maybe watch a movie one day. It took me a long time because I was always out in my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your language was really good by that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was better, a lot better. And I asked a lot of questions and I remember that. I remember the very first time I said something to my host mother, I was like, okay, I'm going to try. And hopefully she understands me. And I said, akine. And she said, akine. That means good, because she understood me. And I was so excited because I was like, oh my God, I can talk to ladies now and they can kind of understand what I'm getting at because I studied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you must have been their age as well. Or maybe you were older. You were older?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.475154639217035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, uh, he had like this little DVD player device and I had it on a USB and I was able to, we were able to play it that way. At that time, I wasn't comfortable with showing that I had a computer out yet. And in fact, at that time I hadn't even pulled out my own computer. It took me about three months to finally say, wait, Charlaine, you have a computer, pull it out, maybe watch a movie one day. It took me a long time because I was always out in my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your language was really good by that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was better, a lot better. And I asked a lot of questions and I remember that. I remember the very first time I said something to my host mother, I was like, okay, I'm going to try. And hopefully she understands me. And I said, akine. And she said, akine. That means good, because she understood me. And I was so excited because I was like, oh my God, I can talk to ladies now and they can kind of understand what I'm getting at because I studied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you must have been their age as well. Or maybe you were older. You were older?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Maybe, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.083505154685593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was better, a lot better. And I asked a lot of questions and I remember that. I remember the very first time I said something to my host mother, I was like, okay, I'm going to try. And hopefully she understands me. And I said, akine. And she said, akine. That means good, because she understood me. And I was so excited because I was like, oh my God, I can talk to ladies now and they can kind of understand what I'm getting at because I studied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you must have been their age as well. Or maybe you were older. You were older?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Maybe, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 33. Now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were 30."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.75945017187288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Maybe, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 33. Now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were 30."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I turned, I turned 32 while I was in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were older than a lot of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.62161130208098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm 33. Now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were 30."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I turned, I turned 32 while I was in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were older than a lot of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of the volunteers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I meant the women in the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.912901446756644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I turned, I turned 32 while I was in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were older than a lot of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of the volunteers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I meant the women in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no. Like Tata was probably in her sixties or seventies. And Aiya, she was pregnant when I first met her. And I don't know quite, I'm not quite sure what her age is. Her husband seems super old to me, which is, um, I called him my host brother because that was Tata's son. But she seemed very young. She seemed to me like she could have been maybe 26 or 27. For me to him, I think he appeared to be maybe in his forties. He was a much older guy, and her two boys were my babies. Hey, um, Randy, do you mind passing, bringing my phone for me, please? It's on the table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll show it. Show it to me after."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.941853637971166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no. Like Tata was probably in her sixties or seventies. And Aiya, she was pregnant when I first met her. And I don't know quite, I'm not quite sure what her age is. Her husband seems super old to me, which is, um, I called him my host brother because that was Tata's son. But she seemed very young. She seemed to me like she could have been maybe 26 or 27. For me to him, I think he appeared to be maybe in his forties. He was a much older guy, and her two boys were my babies. Hey, um, Randy, do you mind passing, bringing my phone for me, please? It's on the table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll show it. Show it to me after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her sons were my babies. They were my heartthrobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.046504042190184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her sons were my babies. They were my heartthrobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mamadid, which is short for Muhammad, he was five years old. And Tonto, that was his little name, but his real name is Facily. And Tonto was two years old at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, very cute."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.051671157989093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her sons were my babies. They were my heartthrobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mamadid, which is short for Muhammad, he was five years old. And Tonto, that was his little name, but his real name is Facily. And Tonto was two years old at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, very cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They became men on that day. They were circumcised that day, they became men. I was gone by the time I got that picture. In fact, today I was going to call my village because it's market day and I knew I could reach everyone in one place so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, do you continue to talk to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.168523508876769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mamadid, which is short for Muhammad, he was five years old. And Tonto, that was his little name, but his real name is Facily. And Tonto was two years old at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, very cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They became men on that day. They were circumcised that day, they became men. I was gone by the time I got that picture. In fact, today I was going to call my village because it's market day and I knew I could reach everyone in one place so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, do you continue to talk to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. They reach out to me and. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people have cell phones in the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.409470565418632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They became men on that day. They were circumcised that day, they became men. I was gone by the time I got that picture. In fact, today I was going to call my village because it's market day and I knew I could reach everyone in one place so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, do you continue to talk to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. They reach out to me and. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people have cell phones in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have cell phones. Everything was like a prepaid service. You had to buy credit in order to communicate but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is the village you were in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.788300628242924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. They reach out to me and. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people have cell phones in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have cell phones. Everything was like a prepaid service. You had to buy credit in order to communicate but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is the village you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2,700 people. But just because we had cell phones doesn't mean we had great service. It was horrible. I hardly used because the service was so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you clearly had an impact in explaining the United States to them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.320334031381027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have cell phones. Everything was like a prepaid service. You had to buy credit in order to communicate but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is the village you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2,700 people. But just because we had cell phones doesn't mean we had great service. It was horrible. I hardly used because the service was so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you clearly had an impact in explaining the United States to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you had an impact on the health issues?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.911482257090029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2,700 people. But just because we had cell phones doesn't mean we had great service. It was horrible. I hardly used because the service was so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you clearly had an impact in explaining the United States to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you had an impact on the health issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. But to an extent. I think because of the fact that I didn't force anything. I did a lot of observing and lots of asking questions. And, you know, if there was something that was wrong, I would fix it right then and there. I remember one time this woman, she was breastfeeding her, she had twins and her, the boy was very well nourished. And the young, I mean the girl, she was extremely small and she was crying. But she was only breastfeeding the boy. And I remember it was bothering me so much that and I got up and I said, okay, I don't know the language, but I'm gonna show her a position so that she can breastfeed them both at the same time. So that the young girl could get something too, to not prioritize just the boy.\n\nAnd I noticed that even when I was in training the way food was distributed in my host family. I remember my mom bought a big loaf of bread. The husband got about half. The young boys got about, you know, maybe 20 percent each. And the young girl got a little piece like that. I couldn't believe it. I was like, wow. Is this how we do it? You know, the boys are prioritized. It blew me away. So for me, when I saw that with the babies, I didn't like it. And so immediately she was just like amazed and shocked and the baby was better. And I said, you know, just at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And her values were to nourish the boy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.826450284074113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cannot. That was my assumption based on my observation. But I cannot say for sure if that's where her values were. But based on what I saw, and the girl was just, she was just crying hysterically. She really needed food. But only the boy was being fed at the time. And so I did what I had to do to show her there's a way you can still get both of them and you're not going to run out of milk. As long as you're breastfeeding, your body will make more. You will be able to support those two babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get to travel in Guinea at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. My first time going to travel and actually leaving my region was when I had the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about what happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was. It had taken me a long time to finally get something going in my village. And finally I got support for building a community garden and teaching perma gardening techniques. Even though I wasn't an agroforestry volunteer, I made sure I got the training that I needed in that. Because as someone in the health background, I know how important agriculture is to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you call it, perma garden?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.140500315637905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. My first time going to travel and actually leaving my region was when I had the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about what happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was. It had taken me a long time to finally get something going in my village. And finally I got support for building a community garden and teaching perma gardening techniques. Even though I wasn't an agroforestry volunteer, I made sure I got the training that I needed in that. Because as someone in the health background, I know how important agriculture is to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you call it, perma garden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perma gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is perma gardening?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.457407797083828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perma gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is perma gardening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's basically a technique that teaches how to max, um, use a small space and use it efficiently with gardening. It's more of a permanent practice in which the way you build beds. So there's a lot of reintroduction of nutrients into the soil, double digging, etcetera, and diverse, um, diversity in terms of the crops that you're planting on one bed. And this was especially something I wanted to show so that the women can have their own personal plots to be able to improve on what they're feeding themselves. I wanted to really promote garden to table practices and really show them ways on how to utilize the foods that they are already accustomed to and teach them different ways to prepare them in order to increase the nutritional quality. How to really use what was available to them.\n\nFor example, I remember one time I interviewed a woman who told me that the powdered formula that were imported was would help her baby get stronger than her own breast milk. And that was a misconception. And I'm thinking to myself, who caused this? Because someone came in to teach these people this. And this is why, you know, they think that these imported chemicals are better for them than what's available to them in their own soil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I finally got the school principal, the students, everyone was super excited because I was also going to do a school garden program and teach basic nutrition to the kids, you know, through this gardening program. And they were so excited. And so the day I finally got to, um, I had been working for about two weeks on clearing the grounds. It was a bad area full of trash and, you know, just high grass. And I finally got it cleared and I worked every morning with the dapo, which is like, I'd have to draw it to explain to you what it is. I don't even know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A hoe, I guess?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.22450243222451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hitchhiking, basically. And but when I'm in Faranah, there's a galawatu, which is pretty much like the garage where you can get different taxis. And so it's easier to get a cab there, but you have to wait until that taxi fills up. And sometimes that's a 6 to 7 hour wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would just listen to an audiobook or read a book or just observe people, observe my surroundings. That was, it was always. I don't know, I would just watch people for hours and it was nothing. Or I would just watch the kids or watch the animals and. It was surreal, I guess you can say. And that day I got into the first available vehicle. It was also the first time I ever got into a van taxi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was a taxi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually a taxi and it was a van. They had a room for one more. And I got in. And I remember when we, about when we were about 11 kilometers past my village. And the only reason I knew that is because the big fromager tree, which is a huge tree, they're super old. Some people say they're as old as about 6000 years. Huge. But this tree is how I know how to get to Kara's village. In fact, a story about these trees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are they called?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.153706706450013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually a taxi and it was a van. They had a room for one more. And I got in. And I remember when we, about when we were about 11 kilometers past my village. And the only reason I knew that is because the big fromager tree, which is a huge tree, they're super old. Some people say they're as old as about 6000 years. Huge. But this tree is how I know how to get to Kara's village. In fact, a story about these trees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are they called?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fromageur [fromager]. F-R-O-M-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "F-R-O-M."}, {"role": "user", "content": "M-A-G-E-U-R. Every new village that was, I guess, created or established. That's how you knew a village was in that town, because every new village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had a tree."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.313218156111127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "M-A-G-E-U-R. Every new village that was, I guess, created or established. That's how you knew a village was in that town, because every new village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had a tree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had that tree, and that tree was planted to establish that village. And so that's, that's what I learned. And I was like, wow, every village has it. And so the historian of the village can tell you about who founded the village. And it was very fascinating. And everything is oral history. So it was very fascinating. And I loved sitting and learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I loved it. Anyway. I got into that cab and when I got to that fromager that marks where Kara's village is, where you turn to go to her village. I remember looking up at driver and I remember looking at the wheel and I'm like, wow, the alignment of this wheel is very off. This is very dangerous. This is not good, you know. And I kid you not, 15 minutes later, there was a scream. I looked up from my phone and I said, holy crap. And I thought I put my phone in my bag. I had two phones. I had my satellite phone an iPhone very similar to this, because it was the only way I could use the internet to do research. And, um. And, um. Next thing I know, we were rolling over and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did somebody hit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.459131284567919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had that tree, and that tree was planted to establish that village. And so that's, that's what I learned. And I was like, wow, every village has it. And so the historian of the village can tell you about who founded the village. And it was very fascinating. And everything is oral history. So it was very fascinating. And I loved sitting and learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I loved it. Anyway. I got into that cab and when I got to that fromager that marks where Kara's village is, where you turn to go to her village. I remember looking up at driver and I remember looking at the wheel and I'm like, wow, the alignment of this wheel is very off. This is very dangerous. This is not good, you know. And I kid you not, 15 minutes later, there was a scream. I looked up from my phone and I said, holy crap. And I thought I put my phone in my bag. I had two phones. I had my satellite phone an iPhone very similar to this, because it was the only way I could use the internet to do research. And, um. And, um. Next thing I know, we were rolling over and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did somebody hit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one hit us. It was a tire that blew out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a tire blew out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.732368093964354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I loved it. Anyway. I got into that cab and when I got to that fromager that marks where Kara's village is, where you turn to go to her village. I remember looking up at driver and I remember looking at the wheel and I'm like, wow, the alignment of this wheel is very off. This is very dangerous. This is not good, you know. And I kid you not, 15 minutes later, there was a scream. I looked up from my phone and I said, holy crap. And I thought I put my phone in my bag. I had two phones. I had my satellite phone an iPhone very similar to this, because it was the only way I could use the internet to do research. And, um. And, um. Next thing I know, we were rolling over and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did somebody hit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one hit us. It was a tire that blew out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a tire blew out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tire blew out. And because the vehicle was too heavy, the car, the driver couldn't control the vehicle. And we ended up flipping over and rolled into the forested side. Thank God it was the forested side of the road. Um, and eventually we, um, collided with a tree. Um, and some of us were ejected from the vehicle. Some of us were thrown from the top of the vehicle to the other side of the tree. Those that were in the front seat of that, um. They didn't make it. We lost three people in this crash. And, um. And I was partially ejected from the vehicle and hanging, hanging from the vehicle like this, basically, that's my feet. And the rest of my body is on the ground and my ankles were pinned inside of the vehicle. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, were there people around to come, to help?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.83807273877786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's all they can do. And they did it with silk without anesthesia, because without that, I would have bled out. So all that liquid I felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was my head. And I don't know, maybe it was my mind that, that protected me from looking over to see it was blood. But I never looked over to see what was falling on me. And even though I saw the woman and noticed that she wasn't bleeding on me, my mind still registered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it came from someone else. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.04230304308651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was my head. And I don't know, maybe it was my mind that, that protected me from looking over to see it was blood. But I never looked over to see what was falling on me. And even though I saw the woman and noticed that she wasn't bleeding on me, my mind still registered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it came from someone else. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then they couldn't do anything for me. But while I was there, I remember saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did the pain start then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.40782310437107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's when they were suturing me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without anesthesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's when I finally was like, holy crap, what is going on? And even during that time, it didn't dawn on me or register to me what had happened. I literally learned truly what kind of head injury I had in November. That's four months later. It still didn't register. You know, I saw the wounds and it didn't register. But when I was in the hospital, I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in this little hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.897581227078966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without anesthesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's when I finally was like, holy crap, what is going on? And even during that time, it didn't dawn on me or register to me what had happened. I literally learned truly what kind of head injury I had in November. That's four months later. It still didn't register. You know, I saw the wounds and it didn't register. But when I was in the hospital, I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in this little hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed in this hospital. But while I was there getting sutured up, Kara was making phone calls and Luke was making phone calls to the Peace Corps. I remember seeing Luke taking pictures. I guess they told him to take pictures. I remember telling them, call safety and security. Call this. And they were like, Shasha, don't worry about it. We got it. We're going to take care of you. But I was just like giving instructions. I'm like, you guys, I'm okay. Just make sure you do this. Call my counterpart. Do this and do that. And the Peace Corps told them, the medical officer there, he told them, put me in a taxicab to send me to Conakry. And if it had not been for them fighting and telling them, absolutely not.\n\nBecause at least from my village to Faranah, the roads are smooth. I had no bad road that I was dealing with. But from Faranah to Conakry, that would have been an 8 to 10 hour drive on very bumpy bad roads. And he wanted me to get in a cab. And it had not been for those volunteers, the following morning I would not have been airlifted into Conakry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they sent a plane? Or a helicopter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.024896657147393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days, and then you were evacuated out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had to, I couldn't walk and because I couldn't feel my legs. And then they said, you know, at first I was supposed to go to Morocco, but then Peace Corps at the last minute, they said, we're not going to send her to Morocco. She needs to go home because if she goes to Morocco, she's going to be there for a very long time. And sure enough, you know. I had to prove to, I don't know who it is with the airlines and the airport, but they would not have allowed me on the plane if I could not walk at all. And so the PCMO, the female PCMO, Missy Vaughn. She was not the idiot who said, put me in a cab. It was the American doctor who said that. Missy Vaughn, you know, she worked with me. I held on to her and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to fly on a commercial flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a seat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.360996285719324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had to, I couldn't walk and because I couldn't feel my legs. And then they said, you know, at first I was supposed to go to Morocco, but then Peace Corps at the last minute, they said, we're not going to send her to Morocco. She needs to go home because if she goes to Morocco, she's going to be there for a very long time. And sure enough, you know. I had to prove to, I don't know who it is with the airlines and the airport, but they would not have allowed me on the plane if I could not walk at all. And so the PCMO, the female PCMO, Missy Vaughn. She was not the idiot who said, put me in a cab. It was the American doctor who said that. Missy Vaughn, you know, she worked with me. I held on to her and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to fly on a commercial flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't air evac you out in a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.623329206354803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't air evac you out in a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my air evacuation. And luckily, Peace Corps put me in first class so that I can actually lay down. And but they put the nurse in, um, in economy. So the flight attendant had to several times go and get her to assist me while I was on that flight. It was a 28 hour to 38 hour trip. We had several stopovers as well. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the same, same plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.025921340394225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't air evac you out in a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my air evacuation. And luckily, Peace Corps put me in first class so that I can actually lay down. And but they put the nurse in, um, in economy. So the flight attendant had to several times go and get her to assist me while I was on that flight. It was a 28 hour to 38 hour trip. We had several stopovers as well. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the same, same plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to change."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.473245933771361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my air evacuation. And luckily, Peace Corps put me in first class so that I can actually lay down. And but they put the nurse in, um, in economy. So the flight attendant had to several times go and get her to assist me while I was on that flight. It was a 28 hour to 38 hour trip. We had several stopovers as well. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the same, same plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to change planes, I think once, I believe, so. I just remember I had to get in a wheelchair and but at least I had to prove that I could at least climb the stairs into the plane and get to my seat because the wheelchairs can't go in the aisles. So I had to be able to prove that. And so before they can clear me for the flight, we had, they had to get me from the hospital, put me in a Peace Corps truck. And with the nurse, we drove to this airline personnel. They came to examine me. And then I had to show them that I can at least walk and look, like I said, I've been working with that nurse trying to, you know, get a few steps. And she said, just hold on to me. And so to get to my seat, I had to hold on to her. Um.\n\nAnd when he gave me the clearance, that same day I was discharged from the hospital, given all of my medical equipment and additional medicines that I can have while I'm on my flight, and I was on the way to the U.S. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to the U.S. where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.825506416089999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you came here and treatment actually started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And treatment actually started. And that's when I finally got a better idea of what my injuries were. That's when I finally, you know, had the bone graft put into my mouth because of the broken bone. I had the teeth extracted. I had, you know, the root canals for the other areas that were affected. I finally got an imaging done in my shoulder that verified that I actually had a torn rotator cuff. I mean, there were so many things that finally happened as soon as I got to D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, um, I was in, um, I. Most of my services were with GW [George Washington University]. With GW. I was all around the Foggy Bottom area. All of my doctors were in Foggy Bottom and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still going through that now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.806118240099998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And treatment actually started. And that's when I finally got a better idea of what my injuries were. That's when I finally, you know, had the bone graft put into my mouth because of the broken bone. I had the teeth extracted. I had, you know, the root canals for the other areas that were affected. I finally got an imaging done in my shoulder that verified that I actually had a torn rotator cuff. I mean, there were so many things that finally happened as soon as I got to D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, um, I was in, um, I. Most of my services were with GW [George Washington University]. With GW. I was all around the Foggy Bottom area. All of my doctors were in Foggy Bottom and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still going through that now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to doctors every day. After I see you, I have another doctor's appointment. Until this day, every single day, I have over 15 different diagnoses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least you're getting treatment now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.451242488999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, um, I was in, um, I. Most of my services were with GW [George Washington University]. With GW. I was all around the Foggy Bottom area. All of my doctors were in Foggy Bottom and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still going through that now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to doctors every day. After I see you, I have another doctor's appointment. Until this day, every single day, I have over 15 different diagnoses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least you're getting treatment now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm getting treatment, but I also have a lot of headaches that I'm dealing with because ever since I was separated officially from the Peace Corps, I was on medevac because my case was so severe. Four months I was on evacuation status. That's why even though I left the country and I arrived in the U.S. by July 6th, I wasn't officially separated from the Corps on the 14th of November. So during that time, you know, I developed things like anxiety. I developed insomnia. I mean, so many things happened because it was just a lot. It was so much, so much. I got verification that I definitely did damage a nerve. My knee was impacted, my hip was impacted, my neck, my mouth, my shoulder, you know, my head.\n\nI mean, there were so many things happening, like me walking into traffic and not even noticing. There were things like I was getting lost in a train system. It was, it was literally, you know, losing train of, I mean, losing train of thought, losing my words, completely blacking out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't have any of that now. I mean, you don't seem to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.964496899999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm getting treatment, but I also have a lot of headaches that I'm dealing with because ever since I was separated officially from the Peace Corps, I was on medevac because my case was so severe. Four months I was on evacuation status. That's why even though I left the country and I arrived in the U.S. by July 6th, I wasn't officially separated from the Corps on the 14th of November. So during that time, you know, I developed things like anxiety. I developed insomnia. I mean, so many things happened because it was just a lot. It was so much, so much. I got verification that I definitely did damage a nerve. My knee was impacted, my hip was impacted, my neck, my mouth, my shoulder, you know, my head.\n\nI mean, there were so many things happening, like me walking into traffic and not even noticing. There were things like I was getting lost in a train system. It was, it was literally, you know, losing train of, I mean, losing train of thought, losing my words, completely blacking out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't have any of that now. I mean, you don't seem to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, it's better. It's better. I still have issues in terms of, um, memory and things like. But it's nowhere as bad as it was in the beginning. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I missed the best part of my service. I want to go back, but I really want to go back so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, first you have to get well. First you have to get well and then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.849440999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, it's better. It's better. I still have issues in terms of, um, memory and things like. But it's nowhere as bad as it was in the beginning. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I missed the best part of my service. I want to go back, but I really want to go back so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, first you have to get well. First you have to get well and then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's hope it's soon."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6104899999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I missed the best part of my service. I want to go back, but I really want to go back so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, first you have to get well. First you have to get well and then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's hope it's soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year has gone by since I've been in D.C. I arrived August 13th and it's been a year since I've been in D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how are you being supported?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 8.4561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's hope it's soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year has gone by since I've been in D.C. I arrived August 13th and it's been a year since I've been in D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how are you being supported?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is a Peace Corps paying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, my mental state as well. Um, and I'm very happy and fortunate for that because then the other place that I was in, I was home alone a lot. And after I finally had the surgery a year later to remove the fragments out of my head, um, the symptoms that I was having since before the accident of lightheadedness and dizziness finally resulted in me losing consciousness. And that happened right here at the dinner table, um, during breakfast. My mother was here, Randy and Mary Jo. You know, we were talking. This was after my surgery, and suddenly, after explaining to them what I have to do next, suddenly I started feeling really bad and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Passed out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I passed out. All I know is, by the time I came to, paramedics were on top of me and performing chest compressions and CPR. Had it not been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have been by myself and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had a rough go of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been tough. It's been tough. So they've been a blessing to me because I am here without my family. And it was I knew the best choice for me so that I can focus on my health. My mother has a lot to deal with my grandmother, my 94 year old grandmother. And it's a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just, I'm just dealing with a lot with trying to get better. And I have a lot of setbacks. I mean, I have good days. I have bad days. But, um. And just, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're lucky to be in the position you're in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just, I'm just dealing with a lot with trying to get better. And I have a lot of setbacks. I mean, I have good days. I have bad days. But, um. And just, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're lucky to be in the position you're in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm blessed. Despite all, all of that has happened, I'm here. I'm breathing. I'm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should we end the interview with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just, I'm just dealing with a lot with trying to get better. And I have a lot of setbacks. I mean, I have good days. I have bad days. But, um. And just, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're lucky to be in the position you're in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm blessed. Despite all, all of that has happened, I'm here. I'm breathing. I'm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should we end the interview with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. The good days."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00048:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. The good days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what, though? And I have to say this because I tell everyone, despite everything that has happened, submitting that application was the best thing I've ever done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the most wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll go back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.236531587232394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time there wasn’t a lot of that. We solicited it from time to time, but they were sort of still thinking through their own heads, and they were really asking us, “What’s the requirement?” So it was more something that we just had to come—in order to get comfortable that we could safely fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an idea of who some of these payload providers would be, as far as on the commercial side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, not really. It was interesting; [there was a lot of discussion going on about putting the Intelsat satellites in the Shuttle.] [So,] the very first [payload] safety [requirements] document we built [was for the Intelsat satellite.] As a matter of fact, I still have that. It’s the first safety requirements document for Shuttle that was for payloads. I’ve got it someplace. So we did build a little safety requirements thing and talk to the contractors that were providing the Intel sat and told them, you know, kind of what we thought the requirements might be, if that ever happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with the Department of Defense, did you have a lot of suggestions from them on how they wanted things to be done as far as for their future payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. We had a lot of interface with them in terms of getting the payloads they were designing compatible with flying in the Shuttle, but there wasn’t a lot of discussion about the things they wanted the Shuttle to do. There was some, but the Shuttle basically is take you into orbit and throw you out, and then you go wherever you’re going to go. So if you think about it, the only kinds of discussions we had—as a matter of fact, we did have some interesting ones on how do you get them out of the payload bay. [Laughs] We built some unique hardware to deploy a payload once."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any of those that you’d like to share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.596146208035993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, not really. It was interesting; [there was a lot of discussion going on about putting the Intelsat satellites in the Shuttle.] [So,] the very first [payload] safety [requirements] document we built [was for the Intelsat satellite.] As a matter of fact, I still have that. It’s the first safety requirements document for Shuttle that was for payloads. I’ve got it someplace. So we did build a little safety requirements thing and talk to the contractors that were providing the Intel sat and told them, you know, kind of what we thought the requirements might be, if that ever happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with the Department of Defense, did you have a lot of suggestions from them on how they wanted things to be done as far as for their future payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. We had a lot of interface with them in terms of getting the payloads they were designing compatible with flying in the Shuttle, but there wasn’t a lot of discussion about the things they wanted the Shuttle to do. There was some, but the Shuttle basically is take you into orbit and throw you out, and then you go wherever you’re going to go. So if you think about it, the only kinds of discussions we had—as a matter of fact, we did have some interesting ones on how do you get them out of the payload bay. [Laughs] We built some unique hardware to deploy a payload once."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any of those that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure I can. Those we all classified payloads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At what point do you feel that the commercial sector decided that going with the Shuttle to release their payloads was a good idea? Did you feel like you were getting lots of interest from them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.575941445650162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Glynn started a lot of that, and then I followed up. Basically, when he started that whole organization, he had a group that would do the engineering piece of it, and had a group that did all the mission requirements, mission planning kind of piece\\n\\n Then there was a group that was the group I led before I became the head of the office, which was the folks that did the actual interface with the customer, the Payload Integration Group. So we simply went out and looked for folks that were skilled at interfacing with people and collecting requirements and getting them all put together, because our basic job was to get all that information. We used the Engineering Group that was in that organization to help with the engineering interfaces, and we used the Ops [Operations] Planning guys to help with what the mission requirements were for this particular payload. But the group that I started out in was responsible for the direct interface with the customer that was providing the hardware, and getting all that put together so that the total system could proceed to plan and implement the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel that you brought from your Mercury-Gemini-Apollo experiences, that you were able to use in doing this part for this whole new way of doing space exploration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than the thirst for human spaceflight, the discipline and rigor associated with the things that we picked up on while I was supporting the early programs. You learned an awful lot as you went through those experiences. When things failed and didn’t work, you create that “Don’t ever do that again” or “Do that different.” So it was really more just the knowledge you obtained from having done a lot of that stuff, to apply it to the next thing that came along, and that’s the way things evolved. I can’t think of any big, show-stopping, bright thing that I brought with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Day-to-day, on-the-job training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the first Shuttle mission and where you were, and then talk about the first payload that you saw go up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.417712717389069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than the thirst for human spaceflight, the discipline and rigor associated with the things that we picked up on while I was supporting the early programs. You learned an awful lot as you went through those experiences. When things failed and didn’t work, you create that “Don’t ever do that again” or “Do that different.” So it was really more just the knowledge you obtained from having done a lot of that stuff, to apply it to the next thing that came along, and that’s the way things evolved. I can’t think of any big, show-stopping, bright thing that I brought with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Day-to-day, on-the-job training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the first Shuttle mission and where you were, and then talk about the first payload that you saw go up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the early shuttle missions, of course, the very first Shuttle flights, I was intently focused on the payload part, okay, which wasn’t to come yet, because we didn’t put payloads on the first flight. There was a lot of instrumentation in the payload bay to measure what was going on, so we were pretty much in a mode of looking at the data and just keeping our fingers crossed. But we were really focused on getting the payloads ready for the subsequent missions, and so I was not heavily involved in the preparation and the operation of the first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about the ones that you were, those first ones and the payloads and how it went, and then what did you learn from those first ones that helped you go on to the next one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.353014130432298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the first Shuttle mission and where you were, and then talk about the first payload that you saw go up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the early shuttle missions, of course, the very first Shuttle flights, I was intently focused on the payload part, okay, which wasn’t to come yet, because we didn’t put payloads on the first flight. There was a lot of instrumentation in the payload bay to measure what was going on, so we were pretty much in a mode of looking at the data and just keeping our fingers crossed. But we were really focused on getting the payloads ready for the subsequent missions, and so I was not heavily involved in the preparation and the operation of the first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about the ones that you were, those first ones and the payloads and how it went, and then what did you learn from those first ones that helped you go on to the next one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Well, it was mainly getting the experience associated with actually flying something in the payload bay. It was a pretty standard process, in terms of we would change things based on what we learned on the first few flights, and do things a little differently because it didn’t work quite so well and that sort of thing. But it was pretty much the standard thing you go through as you do something for the first time and then keep repeating it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any of those that were more memorable than others?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.392237922702552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the early shuttle missions, of course, the very first Shuttle flights, I was intently focused on the payload part, okay, which wasn’t to come yet, because we didn’t put payloads on the first flight. There was a lot of instrumentation in the payload bay to measure what was going on, so we were pretty much in a mode of looking at the data and just keeping our fingers crossed. But we were really focused on getting the payloads ready for the subsequent missions, and so I was not heavily involved in the preparation and the operation of the first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about the ones that you were, those first ones and the payloads and how it went, and then what did you learn from those first ones that helped you go on to the next one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Well, it was mainly getting the experience associated with actually flying something in the payload bay. It was a pretty standard process, in terms of we would change things based on what we learned on the first few flights, and do things a little differently because it didn’t work quite so well and that sort of thing. But it was pretty much the standard thing you go through as you do something for the first time and then keep repeating it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any of those that were more memorable than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I’d have to go back almost and look at the manifest. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot, weren’t there? [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.546931025225058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Well, it was mainly getting the experience associated with actually flying something in the payload bay. It was a pretty standard process, in terms of we would change things based on what we learned on the first few flights, and do things a little differently because it didn’t work quite so well and that sort of thing. But it was pretty much the standard thing you go through as you do something for the first time and then keep repeating it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any of those that were more memorable than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I’d have to go back almost and look at the manifest. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot, weren’t there? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot, yes. I’m sure I could come up with some “Wow,” but not right off the top of my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe we could pursue that in a future time, because I know we’ve had some of the astronauts talk about the different payloads that they were responsible for and the new duties that they worked, because you were working now not just with the typical astronauts that you had in the Apollo days, but you were working with a whole different type of crew with the mission specialists that were responsible for those."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.829923361361175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I’d have to go back almost and look at the manifest. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot, weren’t there? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot, yes. I’m sure I could come up with some “Wow,” but not right off the top of my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe we could pursue that in a future time, because I know we’ve had some of the astronauts talk about the different payloads that they were responsible for and the new duties that they worked, because you were working now not just with the typical astronauts that you had in the Apollo days, but you were working with a whole different type of crew with the mission specialists that were responsible for those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can share with us on interfacing with this new group of people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.144359290401304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot, yes. I’m sure I could come up with some “Wow,” but not right off the top of my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe we could pursue that in a future time, because I know we’ve had some of the astronauts talk about the different payloads that they were responsible for and the new duties that they worked, because you were working now not just with the typical astronauts that you had in the Apollo days, but you were working with a whole different type of crew with the mission specialists that were responsible for those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can share with us on interfacing with this new group of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a great—I mean, you’re talking about a totally dynamic, involved environment. It was just a team. Everybody pulled together, and it was just a constant [thrill,] you would come in every morning and you’re [in a] “Wow” kind of environment. [Laughs] So the crews were all just totally cooperative and dedicated to figuring out how to make it work and making the customers happy. So it was just a unique time, I guess, but I can’t think of any real showstoppers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an interesting time for you careerwise, because your position and responsibilities changed quite a bit during that ’75 to ’89 time period, where you moved a lot more into a higher level of management."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.60484365600145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can share with us on interfacing with this new group of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a great—I mean, you’re talking about a totally dynamic, involved environment. It was just a team. Everybody pulled together, and it was just a constant [thrill,] you would come in every morning and you’re [in a] “Wow” kind of environment. [Laughs] So the crews were all just totally cooperative and dedicated to figuring out how to make it work and making the customers happy. So it was just a unique time, I guess, but I can’t think of any real showstoppers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an interesting time for you careerwise, because your position and responsibilities changed quite a bit during that ’75 to ’89 time period, where you moved a lot more into a higher level of management."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were also responsible for more budgetary and personnel. How did that impact your day-to-day operations on what you had previously done and now you were being responsible for so much more?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.227604062223833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a great—I mean, you’re talking about a totally dynamic, involved environment. It was just a team. Everybody pulled together, and it was just a constant [thrill,] you would come in every morning and you’re [in a] “Wow” kind of environment. [Laughs] So the crews were all just totally cooperative and dedicated to figuring out how to make it work and making the customers happy. So it was just a unique time, I guess, but I can’t think of any real showstoppers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an interesting time for you careerwise, because your position and responsibilities changed quite a bit during that ’75 to ’89 time period, where you moved a lot more into a higher level of management."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were also responsible for more budgetary and personnel. How did that impact your day-to-day operations on what you had previously done and now you were being responsible for so much more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m a pretty laid-back person, and so I didn’t really get all upset with a lot of the trauma that occurred from time to time because somebody didn’t like what you did to them or whatever. So I just pretty much gravitated through that time period and did whatever they told me to do, and just pulled it into my job jar and did it, you know, and just pressed on. The least fun thing we ever did was budgets and dollars. [Laughs] But I even got to the point where I could handle that without getting all torn up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that, from some things that we’ve read, that there was a bit of tension through the space agency, because it was the end of Apollo, and Shuttle wasn’t coming on line as fast as they had hoped. Were you having to deal with a lot of the issues of reduction in force?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.41527216756225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both; there were plans in place, but of course, we had never had one of those kinds of things before, and so it was a pretty top-level kind of a plan. So we pretty much pulled the plan out and made sure we were doing all those things, and then figuring out what else we needed to do. We had a good team of people working to make sure that we got everything, at least to be sure we kept the data that we thought we’d need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay in this role of working with that investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I don’t recall exactly how long it was. I’d have to go back and look. It was probably, my guess would be, several weeks before they formed the formal board, etc., and we transitioned what we were doing to that formal investigation process. I can’t remember how long. I’m sure it’s on the record someplace, but I would guess it was at least several weeks and maybe a couple of months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved then with the formal board as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only in an indirect sense, in support kind of things, because of my background, etc., but not directly. We did brief them some in what all we’d done, so I was indirectly involved [from that perspective]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when the investigation was going on, were you keeping up with their findings and what the discussion was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.683635741735833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I don’t recall exactly how long it was. I’d have to go back and look. It was probably, my guess would be, several weeks before they formed the formal board, etc., and we transitioned what we were doing to that formal investigation process. I can’t remember how long. I’m sure it’s on the record someplace, but I would guess it was at least several weeks and maybe a couple of months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved then with the formal board as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only in an indirect sense, in support kind of things, because of my background, etc., but not directly. We did brief them some in what all we’d done, so I was indirectly involved [from that perspective]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when the investigation was going on, were you keeping up with their findings and what the discussion was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything else during the time period for testimony or parts of what you did through offering more information?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.092928601928703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only in an indirect sense, in support kind of things, because of my background, etc., but not directly. We did brief them some in what all we’d done, so I was indirectly involved [from that perspective]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when the investigation was going on, were you keeping up with their findings and what the discussion was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything else during the time period for testimony or parts of what you did through offering more information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure what you mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your involvement up until the time—I guess from the time that you turned that information over until actually the Shuttle went back to return to flight? What all were you doing during that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.963131272497696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was fortunate in that the system had been running for a long time. A lot of the hiccups associated with the early startups in terms of the integration of those things—you know, when the program first started up, the responsibilities for integrating the solids to the stack and the tank to the stacks and the engines, and getting all that interfaces squared away, was a huge problem. Fortunately, those interface issues and processes had been pretty much worked out by the time I was Program Manager, and so I found it to be a reasonably—you know, there were always topics and issues to work, but everybody was on mostly the same page in terms of trying to make it work out right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of the issues that I know you tackled while you were in there was, one, with the hydrogen leak in the Shuttle fleet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that drove us crazy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us how you got that resolved and about the process, because the fleet was grounded for a while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.070145858330774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that drove us crazy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us how you got that resolved and about the process, because the fleet was grounded for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we detected that leak, and we pulled together a team and tried to figure out where it was coming from, etc. Gosh, that’s a long time ago. Couldn’t find it and couldn’t find it, and finally went back out to the pad, and sure enough, it was still there. Finally the team of guys—and I don’t recall exactly who; I know Chet [Chester A.] Vaughan was on the team and some other folks—came up and found the source of the leak. It was fairly straightforward to fix it once we found it, but it was extremely and difficult and trying, I mean, to figure out where in the world that was coming from. Of course, it drove the whole team crazy for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your decision to ground the fleet until you could find it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.189050953700859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that drove us crazy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us how you got that resolved and about the process, because the fleet was grounded for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we detected that leak, and we pulled together a team and tried to figure out where it was coming from, etc. Gosh, that’s a long time ago. Couldn’t find it and couldn’t find it, and finally went back out to the pad, and sure enough, it was still there. Finally the team of guys—and I don’t recall exactly who; I know Chet [Chester A.] Vaughan was on the team and some other folks—came up and found the source of the leak. It was fairly straightforward to fix it once we found it, but it was extremely and difficult and trying, I mean, to figure out where in the world that was coming from. Of course, it drove the whole team crazy for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your decision to ground the fleet until you could find it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t any doubt in my mind that was the right thing to do. I’m sure we had a telecon [teleconference] with Washington [D.C.] [and] that I said, “Yes, we definitely think we need to fix this before we fly.” Everybody agreed, so [we did get on with finding and fixing the leak]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another issue that, as you mentioned, that always cropped up here and there, of course, was cost and budgets. I understand that you initiated a planning effort called Shuttle Vision 2000 that would reduce the cost of the Shuttle operations. Could you share some details about that and why you initiated that whole plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.301860926232065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a pain for technical people to have to worry about that, but I didn’t see a lot of protecting turf kind of reaction. Everybody pretty much got on the same page that we had to do this, and jumped in and tried to make it happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the nineties there was an upgrade of the Orbiters. How were you involved in setting that in place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of discussion about upgrades, and really, it was just a topic of conversation pretty much while I was in the Shuttle Program Office. When I got to Engineering, it became a little more serious.\\n\\n So we put together a team of folks to go look at each of the subsystems and to come back and talk about should we upgrade; if we should, why? And what were the penalties in not doing that, etc., etc. And went through each subsystem and talked about what are we going to have to do to fly this thing for another ten years, and what are the downsides associated with that for this particular piece of hardware. Put all that together and then took it to the Shuttle Program in terms of some ideas and concepts for what we might do to upgrade the vehicle to keep it flying efficiently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I wanted to ask you, too, or mention that when you were still leading the Shuttle Program that you got to welcome a new Orbiter into the fleet when the\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n arrived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a nice memory for us to hear about. How were you involved through the design and development of that Orbiter during the manufacture of it? Were you part of the team that basically brought\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n online?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.33540102914674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of discussion about upgrades, and really, it was just a topic of conversation pretty much while I was in the Shuttle Program Office. When I got to Engineering, it became a little more serious.\\n\\n So we put together a team of folks to go look at each of the subsystems and to come back and talk about should we upgrade; if we should, why? And what were the penalties in not doing that, etc., etc. And went through each subsystem and talked about what are we going to have to do to fly this thing for another ten years, and what are the downsides associated with that for this particular piece of hardware. Put all that together and then took it to the Shuttle Program in terms of some ideas and concepts for what we might do to upgrade the vehicle to keep it flying efficiently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I wanted to ask you, too, or mention that when you were still leading the Shuttle Program that you got to welcome a new Orbiter into the fleet when the\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n arrived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a nice memory for us to hear about. How were you involved through the design and development of that Orbiter during the manufacture of it? Were you part of the team that basically brought\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, the design had all been done. It was a matter of getting the funding associated with building another unit, and I spent a lot of time out looking at the hardware and checking on how things were going and that sort of thing. But it was mainly Rockwell and guys doing their thing; I didn’t find it to be a big deal other than happy times to get another vehicle in the fleet and just sort of keeping your eyeball on it to make sure it was staying on track. The guys did a great job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the spacecraft was reported to be a 1.5 billion investment, but it’s supposedly arrived for $50 million less than what it had been forecast. Was that a nice—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.483778921274155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a nice memory for us to hear about. How were you involved through the design and development of that Orbiter during the manufacture of it? Were you part of the team that basically brought\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, the design had all been done. It was a matter of getting the funding associated with building another unit, and I spent a lot of time out looking at the hardware and checking on how things were going and that sort of thing. But it was mainly Rockwell and guys doing their thing; I didn’t find it to be a big deal other than happy times to get another vehicle in the fleet and just sort of keeping your eyeball on it to make sure it was staying on track. The guys did a great job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the spacecraft was reported to be a 1.5 billion investment, but it’s supposedly arrived for $50 million less than what it had been forecast. Was that a nice—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty million out of 1.5 billion doesn’t even—[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It said a lot to me. [Laughter] Now I’ve been corrected. I’m understanding more about budgets now.\\n\\n A second Shuttle Carrier Aircraft came into service right at the same time, so you were able to have two new pieces of equipment. Again being a part of Air Ops [Operations], was that part of your area, too, when the new SCA came on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.759754356971284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, the design had all been done. It was a matter of getting the funding associated with building another unit, and I spent a lot of time out looking at the hardware and checking on how things were going and that sort of thing. But it was mainly Rockwell and guys doing their thing; I didn’t find it to be a big deal other than happy times to get another vehicle in the fleet and just sort of keeping your eyeball on it to make sure it was staying on track. The guys did a great job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the spacecraft was reported to be a 1.5 billion investment, but it’s supposedly arrived for $50 million less than what it had been forecast. Was that a nice—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty million out of 1.5 billion doesn’t even—[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It said a lot to me. [Laughter] Now I’ve been corrected. I’m understanding more about budgets now.\\n\\n A second Shuttle Carrier Aircraft came into service right at the same time, so you were able to have two new pieces of equipment. Again being a part of Air Ops [Operations], was that part of your area, too, when the new SCA came on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the carrier was mainly handled by the MOD aircraft guys, okay? They really took care of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the early nineties NASA began the talks with the Russian Space Agency about putting an astronaut on the Mir. Then that evolved into the Shuttle going to the Mir as well. I know that you were back in the Engineering Directorate when a lot of that happened, but were you involved with those early talks?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.621949285523648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty million out of 1.5 billion doesn’t even—[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It said a lot to me. [Laughter] Now I’ve been corrected. I’m understanding more about budgets now.\\n\\n A second Shuttle Carrier Aircraft came into service right at the same time, so you were able to have two new pieces of equipment. Again being a part of Air Ops [Operations], was that part of your area, too, when the new SCA came on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the carrier was mainly handled by the MOD aircraft guys, okay? They really took care of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the early nineties NASA began the talks with the Russian Space Agency about putting an astronaut on the Mir. Then that evolved into the Shuttle going to the Mir as well. I know that you were back in the Engineering Directorate when a lot of that happened, but were you involved with those early talks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had a separate group of folks dealing with the Russians for the Mir thing. No, the basic Shuttle Program was really concentrating on flying Shuttles, and there was another group of guys off talking to the Russians about doing Mir. Then I moved to Engineering, so I had even less interface with it. So I didn’t really have much involvement in Shuttle-Mir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then the Station; I know the first module launched in ’98, but as you mentioned, you had done payloads so much earlier, and then some of those aspects transferred over. Were you involved at all with the early days of preparing for the Station as far as the Shuttle was going to be impacted?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.624920465246911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, for space exploration, it’s a different ball game. The payloads will be pretty much associated with the kinds of things that you want to provide to the crew so that they can contribute to the scientific knowledge associated with whatever the mission is. The aspects that we, of course, learned in the Payload Office in Houston was more associated with—and the Shuttle—with the integration of all these things. So we learned a lot about how you take other people’s hardware and put it into a system, but in terms of the payloads themselves, we didn’t really get that involved in what they were doing and why they were doing it once they got to wherever they were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the operational aspect taught about how everything affects everything, and impacts, and the volume and the weight. All of that had a big bearing on what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have been in a unique position, because you worked so much in those areas for supporting the Shuttle system for NASA, but then when you left, you went on the commercial side and are still working in that operation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how the two differ, working on the commercial side versus the government side, to meet the goals of the program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.361022739163234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have been in a unique position, because you worked so much in those areas for supporting the Shuttle system for NASA, but then when you left, you went on the commercial side and are still working in that operation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how the two differ, working on the commercial side versus the government side, to meet the goals of the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interesting thing to me is a lot of the similarities. The major difference, of course, is on the commercial side there’s a certain amount of focus, attention, that has to be paid to making profit and keeping the business healthy. But in terms of the interface in a day-to-day basis, my experience has been that on the technical side the thought processes are very similar. The goals and objectives are very similar. There’s not a lot of difference between what the technical guys worry about on the NASA side versus this technical team on the contractor’s side.\\n\\n Indeed, the other similarity that has been interesting to me is while on the government side you always worried about how much budget you’ve got; do you have enough money to do the program? On the contractor’s side you’re worried about I’ve got to get this done for what I told them I would do it for, because if I don’t, I’m going to get hit. So the objectives there are fairly common, if you think about it, and if you create this communication and discussion path between the two, it’s amazing to me how your goals and objectives fit. [Laughs] So I haven’t found it to be like a day-night shift at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in your previous work with JSC, you certainly dealt with a lot of different type of contractors, and then now being on the other side, I guess that understanding and those dealings, did that help you be able to understand NASA’s expectations and the way they work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.178914154625815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how the two differ, working on the commercial side versus the government side, to meet the goals of the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interesting thing to me is a lot of the similarities. The major difference, of course, is on the commercial side there’s a certain amount of focus, attention, that has to be paid to making profit and keeping the business healthy. But in terms of the interface in a day-to-day basis, my experience has been that on the technical side the thought processes are very similar. The goals and objectives are very similar. There’s not a lot of difference between what the technical guys worry about on the NASA side versus this technical team on the contractor’s side.\\n\\n Indeed, the other similarity that has been interesting to me is while on the government side you always worried about how much budget you’ve got; do you have enough money to do the program? On the contractor’s side you’re worried about I’ve got to get this done for what I told them I would do it for, because if I don’t, I’m going to get hit. So the objectives there are fairly common, if you think about it, and if you create this communication and discussion path between the two, it’s amazing to me how your goals and objectives fit. [Laughs] So I haven’t found it to be like a day-night shift at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in your previous work with JSC, you certainly dealt with a lot of different type of contractors, and then now being on the other side, I guess that understanding and those dealings, did that help you be able to understand NASA’s expectations and the way they work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. Oh yes, sure. Yes. I have a good feeling for what’s motivating the guys on the NASA side. No question about that, because I’ve been there. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And helped create it. What do you think was the biggest challenge of all that you did when you were working as part of the Shuttle Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.628289079784958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. Oh yes, sure. Yes. I have a good feeling for what’s motivating the guys on the NASA side. No question about that, because I’ve been there. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And helped create it. What do you think was the biggest challenge of all that you did when you were working as part of the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gee whiz. Probably the biggest challenge was keeping some kind of a personal life alive, because the programs can just totally eat you up, especially the big ones like what we had down here at JSC. They can just eat you up if you let them do that.\\n\\n In terms of challenges within the program, probably the biggest one I found was keeping the organization—not the Shuttle organization itself, but all the supporting organizations—all aligned. In other words, like the Mission Ops guys, the Flight Crew Ops guys, the Engineering Directorate, keeping those guys all aligned from a management sense down as to what we’re trying to do, and what our real goals and objectives are, and what are the important things we need to be worried about, because you had to carve out the time to go have those interfaces and discussions and be sure that everybody’s working off the same page. I wouldn’t say it was a huge challenge, but it’s just one of the things you had to pay attention to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are there any essential tips you’d like to share with us on what you did successfully to keep those aligned and keeping everybody pointed in the right direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communications. Set up the process to talk. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think to be the most rewarding aspect of when you worked in the Shuttle Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.47587675531662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gee whiz. Probably the biggest challenge was keeping some kind of a personal life alive, because the programs can just totally eat you up, especially the big ones like what we had down here at JSC. They can just eat you up if you let them do that.\\n\\n In terms of challenges within the program, probably the biggest one I found was keeping the organization—not the Shuttle organization itself, but all the supporting organizations—all aligned. In other words, like the Mission Ops guys, the Flight Crew Ops guys, the Engineering Directorate, keeping those guys all aligned from a management sense down as to what we’re trying to do, and what our real goals and objectives are, and what are the important things we need to be worried about, because you had to carve out the time to go have those interfaces and discussions and be sure that everybody’s working off the same page. I wouldn’t say it was a huge challenge, but it’s just one of the things you had to pay attention to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are there any essential tips you’d like to share with us on what you did successfully to keep those aligned and keeping everybody pointed in the right direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communications. Set up the process to talk. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think to be the most rewarding aspect of when you worked in the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there’s no question—there’s two things. One is seeing the vehicle fly and having a successful mission. Oh, what a great experience that is. The other most rewarding thing is watching the people grow. I just had a blast watching the folks that used to be reports to reports to reports within Engineering or within the Shuttle Program, how they’ve grown and matured and taken on new stuff. So it’s a combination of watching the successes occur and watching the people grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other thoughts? When you were thinking about coming in today, are there other aspects of the Shuttle Program or some of the experiences that you can think of that you would like to discuss with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.417640839240688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communications. Set up the process to talk. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think to be the most rewarding aspect of when you worked in the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there’s no question—there’s two things. One is seeing the vehicle fly and having a successful mission. Oh, what a great experience that is. The other most rewarding thing is watching the people grow. I just had a blast watching the folks that used to be reports to reports to reports within Engineering or within the Shuttle Program, how they’ve grown and matured and taken on new stuff. So it’s a combination of watching the successes occur and watching the people grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other thoughts? When you were thinking about coming in today, are there other aspects of the Shuttle Program or some of the experiences that you can think of that you would like to discuss with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that we haven’t already talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m believe Jennifer has a couple of questions for you.\n\nI have some questions about payloads and then just general questions for you about the Center. The Get Away Special canisters, is that something that your office had come up with, that design?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.464045376934097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there’s no question—there’s two things. One is seeing the vehicle fly and having a successful mission. Oh, what a great experience that is. The other most rewarding thing is watching the people grow. I just had a blast watching the folks that used to be reports to reports to reports within Engineering or within the Shuttle Program, how they’ve grown and matured and taken on new stuff. So it’s a combination of watching the successes occur and watching the people grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other thoughts? When you were thinking about coming in today, are there other aspects of the Shuttle Program or some of the experiences that you can think of that you would like to discuss with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that we haven’t already talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m believe Jennifer has a couple of questions for you.\n\nI have some questions about payloads and then just general questions for you about the Center. The Get Away Special canisters, is that something that your office had come up with, that design?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came up while I was there, yes. I wouldn’t take any credit for it, though. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. What sort of involvement did you have with the student experiments? Were you interfacing with the students or the schools as they were working those experiments that were going to be included on the Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.62671708548233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that we haven’t already talked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m believe Jennifer has a couple of questions for you.\n\nI have some questions about payloads and then just general questions for you about the Center. The Get Away Special canisters, is that something that your office had come up with, that design?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came up while I was there, yes. I wouldn’t take any credit for it, though. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. What sort of involvement did you have with the student experiments? Were you interfacing with the students or the schools as they were working those experiments that were going to be included on the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was very supportive of it. That all happened when I was in more of a management role, and so I did not. We had people interfacing with all that, but I wasn’t directly interfacing with it. I was just one of the people that said yes, let’s make this happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were doing some tours in Europe, trying to promote, basically, the Space Shuttle and its capability for payloads. Can you share with us some of those recollections that you had and some of the countries you might have visited?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.474130094980366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came up while I was there, yes. I wouldn’t take any credit for it, though. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. What sort of involvement did you have with the student experiments? Were you interfacing with the students or the schools as they were working those experiments that were going to be included on the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was very supportive of it. That all happened when I was in more of a management role, and so I did not. We had people interfacing with all that, but I wasn’t directly interfacing with it. I was just one of the people that said yes, let’s make this happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were doing some tours in Europe, trying to promote, basically, the Space Shuttle and its capability for payloads. Can you share with us some of those recollections that you had and some of the countries you might have visited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, we spent a lot of time in England and briefed the government and industry teams on how you could use the Shuttle. We spent a lot of time in France and Italy doing the same thing, and Germany, also. So it was mainly through the major countries in Europe. The objective was to make them aware and try to convince them that flying their payloads on Shuttle could be made easy and doable, and get them interested in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any competition in the late seventies and early eighties with the Space Shuttle, in terms of deploying payloads, that you felt you were competing against?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.41570010553374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was very supportive of it. That all happened when I was in more of a management role, and so I did not. We had people interfacing with all that, but I wasn’t directly interfacing with it. I was just one of the people that said yes, let’s make this happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were doing some tours in Europe, trying to promote, basically, the Space Shuttle and its capability for payloads. Can you share with us some of those recollections that you had and some of the countries you might have visited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, we spent a lot of time in England and briefed the government and industry teams on how you could use the Shuttle. We spent a lot of time in France and Italy doing the same thing, and Germany, also. So it was mainly through the major countries in Europe. The objective was to make them aware and try to convince them that flying their payloads on Shuttle could be made easy and doable, and get them interested in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any competition in the late seventies and early eighties with the Space Shuttle, in terms of deploying payloads, that you felt you were competing against?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have the sense. Of course, the expendable launch vehicles were still around, and they were doing stuff at the time, so I’m sure they felt we were trying to inject ourselves on their turf. [Laughs] But we were mainly just interested in making the Shuttle Program do what it’s supposed to do. Of course, we weren’t in the business of making money, and so from that point of view we didn’t sense the competitive environment, if that makes sense to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Did you work with any of the other Centers, like Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland] or Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], on some of their payloads?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.4618890061486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, we spent a lot of time in England and briefed the government and industry teams on how you could use the Shuttle. We spent a lot of time in France and Italy doing the same thing, and Germany, also. So it was mainly through the major countries in Europe. The objective was to make them aware and try to convince them that flying their payloads on Shuttle could be made easy and doable, and get them interested in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any competition in the late seventies and early eighties with the Space Shuttle, in terms of deploying payloads, that you felt you were competing against?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have the sense. Of course, the expendable launch vehicles were still around, and they were doing stuff at the time, so I’m sure they felt we were trying to inject ourselves on their turf. [Laughs] But we were mainly just interested in making the Shuttle Program do what it’s supposed to do. Of course, we weren’t in the business of making money, and so from that point of view we didn’t sense the competitive environment, if that makes sense to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Did you work with any of the other Centers, like Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland] or Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], on some of their payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Ames, for instance, on the animal enclosure experiments, and how did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.179876673498443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have the sense. Of course, the expendable launch vehicles were still around, and they were doing stuff at the time, so I’m sure they felt we were trying to inject ourselves on their turf. [Laughs] But we were mainly just interested in making the Shuttle Program do what it’s supposed to do. Of course, we weren’t in the business of making money, and so from that point of view we didn’t sense the competitive environment, if that makes sense to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Did you work with any of the other Centers, like Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland] or Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], on some of their payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Ames, for instance, on the animal enclosure experiments, and how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the biggest interface, of course, was with Goddard on the Hubble Space Telescope, and we had a lot of interfaces with Huntsville on some of the satellite hardware they were doing down there. My interface with the Ames folks was very small in terms of the payloads they were building, because they basically interfaced, as I recall, through the Life Sciences guys, mostly, and so they would bring the stuff to the Shuttle Program. So it was mainly Goddard and Marshall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Hubble Space Telescope. What were you interfacing at that point? The space telescope it was supposed to launch, of course, in ’86, but it didn’t end up launching because of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. But what was your involvement with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.977640748331603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with Ames, for instance, on the animal enclosure experiments, and how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the biggest interface, of course, was with Goddard on the Hubble Space Telescope, and we had a lot of interfaces with Huntsville on some of the satellite hardware they were doing down there. My interface with the Ames folks was very small in terms of the payloads they were building, because they basically interfaced, as I recall, through the Life Sciences guys, mostly, and so they would bring the stuff to the Shuttle Program. So it was mainly Goddard and Marshall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Hubble Space Telescope. What were you interfacing at that point? The space telescope it was supposed to launch, of course, in ’86, but it didn’t end up launching because of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. But what was your involvement with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were involved in the integrating it into the Shuttle, you know, and doing all of the coordination for what the loads would be, etc., etc., so that they could design the hardware properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all with McDonnell Douglas on the Continuous Flow Electrophoresis experiments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.864045275924003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the biggest interface, of course, was with Goddard on the Hubble Space Telescope, and we had a lot of interfaces with Huntsville on some of the satellite hardware they were doing down there. My interface with the Ames folks was very small in terms of the payloads they were building, because they basically interfaced, as I recall, through the Life Sciences guys, mostly, and so they would bring the stuff to the Shuttle Program. So it was mainly Goddard and Marshall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Hubble Space Telescope. What were you interfacing at that point? The space telescope it was supposed to launch, of course, in ’86, but it didn’t end up launching because of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. But what was your involvement with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were involved in the integrating it into the Shuttle, you know, and doing all of the coordination for what the loads would be, etc., etc., so that they could design the hardware properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all with McDonnell Douglas on the Continuous Flow Electrophoresis experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the name, but no, I wasn’t directly involved. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with the Saudis at all or Mexico with some of their payloads that were launched from the Space Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.737828084360002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were involved in the integrating it into the Shuttle, you know, and doing all of the coordination for what the loads would be, etc., etc., so that they could design the hardware properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all with McDonnell Douglas on the Continuous Flow Electrophoresis experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the name, but no, I wasn’t directly involved. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with the Saudis at all or Mexico with some of their payloads that were launched from the Space Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When that was done, I was at a higher level, and so the direct interface was through the Payloads Integration Manager. So I did meet some of those folks and have a chance to talk to them and stuff like that, but I wasn’t on the day-to-day interface with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned the Payload Support Center in the control center. Can you tell us where that was located at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.597586760400002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the name, but no, I wasn’t directly involved. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with the Saudis at all or Mexico with some of their payloads that were launched from the Space Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When that was done, I was at a higher level, and so the direct interface was through the Payloads Integration Manager. So I did meet some of those folks and have a chance to talk to them and stuff like that, but I wasn’t on the day-to-day interface with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned the Payload Support Center in the control center. Can you tell us where that was located at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Gosh, I’d have to almost go over there. It was the main control center. It was around the corner on the second floor, and it was a fairly small room that was allocated for payloads on the—which side of the building would that be? Let’s see; I’d have to almost get my map out, but it was located close to the control center, the main control room, but not adjacent to it. I mean, you had to come out of the Payload Control Center and go walk around the hall to get to the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people normally worked in that center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.330651956000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When that was done, I was at a higher level, and so the direct interface was through the Payloads Integration Manager. So I did meet some of those folks and have a chance to talk to them and stuff like that, but I wasn’t on the day-to-day interface with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned the Payload Support Center in the control center. Can you tell us where that was located at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Gosh, I’d have to almost go over there. It was the main control center. It was around the corner on the second floor, and it was a fairly small room that was allocated for payloads on the—which side of the building would that be? Let’s see; I’d have to almost get my map out, but it was located close to the control center, the main control room, but not adjacent to it. I mean, you had to come out of the Payload Control Center and go walk around the hall to get to the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people normally worked in that center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended. It would depend on the mission, because on several missions, we would have multiple payloads on a given mission. So it would not be unusual to see fifteen or twenty folks in there, plus we had a little, small room for the non-involved people, like the managers from those different organizations had a little room they could sit in to watch what we were all doing down there in the Payload Control Room. I would bet it would hold ten or twelve folks, maybe. So it has that order of magnitude. We would have the guys from the PAM Project and then the satellite that was riding on top of it would have folks in there. Then we’d have our people in there and so it would be of that order of magnitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you operating twenty-four hours a day, or were you just operating when the payload was ready to deploy and then after the deployment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.145168840000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Gosh, I’d have to almost go over there. It was the main control center. It was around the corner on the second floor, and it was a fairly small room that was allocated for payloads on the—which side of the building would that be? Let’s see; I’d have to almost get my map out, but it was located close to the control center, the main control room, but not adjacent to it. I mean, you had to come out of the Payload Control Center and go walk around the hall to get to the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people normally worked in that center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended. It would depend on the mission, because on several missions, we would have multiple payloads on a given mission. So it would not be unusual to see fifteen or twenty folks in there, plus we had a little, small room for the non-involved people, like the managers from those different organizations had a little room they could sit in to watch what we were all doing down there in the Payload Control Room. I would bet it would hold ten or twelve folks, maybe. So it has that order of magnitude. We would have the guys from the PAM Project and then the satellite that was riding on top of it would have folks in there. Then we’d have our people in there and so it would be of that order of magnitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you operating twenty-four hours a day, or were you just operating when the payload was ready to deploy and then after the deployment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily just as you stated it; it wasn’t necessarily twenty-four hours a day, although you always had to have somebody available in case something happened. So there would be some people there twenty-four hours a day, but the main teams would be there when the operation was occurring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you provided support. What does that entail for the payload, with interacting with the Flight Controllers and the crew? What did that process entail for your folks?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.050187600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended. It would depend on the mission, because on several missions, we would have multiple payloads on a given mission. So it would not be unusual to see fifteen or twenty folks in there, plus we had a little, small room for the non-involved people, like the managers from those different organizations had a little room they could sit in to watch what we were all doing down there in the Payload Control Room. I would bet it would hold ten or twelve folks, maybe. So it has that order of magnitude. We would have the guys from the PAM Project and then the satellite that was riding on top of it would have folks in there. Then we’d have our people in there and so it would be of that order of magnitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you operating twenty-four hours a day, or were you just operating when the payload was ready to deploy and then after the deployment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily just as you stated it; it wasn’t necessarily twenty-four hours a day, although you always had to have somebody available in case something happened. So there would be some people there twenty-four hours a day, but the main teams would be there when the operation was occurring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you provided support. What does that entail for the payload, with interacting with the Flight Controllers and the crew? What did that process entail for your folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Payload Control Officer who is in the main control room, we would have communications with them from the different consoles in the Payload Control Room, and so he could inquire to payload 1 or payload 2 or payload 3, or all of them if he needed to, and ask them for data or information or support or whatever. So I’m not sure that answered your question; but it was all through the Payload Officer who’s in the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious; I just have some general questions for you. What was it like when the female astronauts came on board in ’78? Did you notice a change at all working at JSC with more professional women coming on board?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.055764000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily just as you stated it; it wasn’t necessarily twenty-four hours a day, although you always had to have somebody available in case something happened. So there would be some people there twenty-four hours a day, but the main teams would be there when the operation was occurring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you provided support. What does that entail for the payload, with interacting with the Flight Controllers and the crew? What did that process entail for your folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Payload Control Officer who is in the main control room, we would have communications with them from the different consoles in the Payload Control Room, and so he could inquire to payload 1 or payload 2 or payload 3, or all of them if he needed to, and ask them for data or information or support or whatever. So I’m not sure that answered your question; but it was all through the Payload Officer who’s in the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious; I just have some general questions for you. What was it like when the female astronauts came on board in ’78? Did you notice a change at all working at JSC with more professional women coming on board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. They were just normal, competent people, and so I didn’t really observe a big change. We had a lot of female engineers at the time, so that environment was normal. I mean, it was just one of those things that was time to happen, and it happened and yea verily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reason I asked is Mr. [James R.] Jaax had told us he attended some sort of workshop about working with women, so I was just curious if that had a larger impact on the Center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.061960000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Payload Control Officer who is in the main control room, we would have communications with them from the different consoles in the Payload Control Room, and so he could inquire to payload 1 or payload 2 or payload 3, or all of them if he needed to, and ask them for data or information or support or whatever. So I’m not sure that answered your question; but it was all through the Payload Officer who’s in the main control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious; I just have some general questions for you. What was it like when the female astronauts came on board in ’78? Did you notice a change at all working at JSC with more professional women coming on board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. They were just normal, competent people, and so I didn’t really observe a big change. We had a lot of female engineers at the time, so that environment was normal. I mean, it was just one of those things that was time to happen, and it happened and yea verily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reason I asked is Mr. [James R.] Jaax had told us he attended some sort of workshop about working with women, so I was just curious if that had a larger impact on the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember ever attending that workshop. Jim needed a lot of training. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you became the Shuttle Program Manger, can you talk to us about your work with Headquarters, working with the Office of Manned Space Flight, and the Administrator?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00425:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He obviously had already made up his mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glad you agreed with him, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The only other question that I had that I thought of was I’m wondering if you could tell us what the mood was like at the Center following the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident until return to flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I described a little bit what it was like after and then immediately after, and then my assessment was that within a fairly short period of time every single individual on that site was focused, got their brain and energy focused on getting us back to flight. So it was a huge unifying “Let’s fix it and get going” kind of an environment. We all got impatient with how long it was taking because of the hardware changes we had to make, but everybody understood why we had to do that. The team was more focused, because everybody just saw that [fixing the problem was] absolutely essential and threw in wherever they could to make sure we got it done and got it done safely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that’s it.\n\nWell, before we close, although you weren’t at NASA officially when [Space Shuttle]\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n [STS-107] fell, how did that affect the operations that you were working on at the time? And then certainly personally, you had worked so long with that Shuttle Program and to watch\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n be lost."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00090:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 31.033920000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall there being a lot of competition. I think we populated the mission fairly early in the flow, and then we had to keep those investigators happy while they weren’t flying. They may have gotten opportunities on other missions to fly other experiments, or other aspects of other experiments, but I don’t recall any ongoing competition. It seems like we lost Triana fairly early in the planning process. After that it sort of settled down. I mean, after that there was really no motivation to fly. At least with Triana on board, it was the vice president’s pet project, and that would help to keep us in the flight queue, but after that went away, then it was the redheaded stepchild, nobody really had any particular interest in this one except for the scientists that were on board and the senators that those scientists liked to call up and complain about their poor treatment by NASA.\\n\\n Triana just launched recently, and it’s now on Station and sending pictures back. It’s now called DSCOVR [Deep Space Climate Observatory]. I saw a picture from it the other day. I hope Al Gore feels vindicated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What I read is that he dreamed about it, or it came to him in a dream, or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if it was a dream or in the shower, but it was one of those moments. I think we all get inspiration at times like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we do. As far as the peer reviews, did you have any involvement in picking those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any involvement in that peer review activity. Those investigations that came to us were peer reviewed by the sponsoring organizations, however they prefer to do it, and I treated them all as full-fledged investigations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the quotes I read in an article was that you said the 107 mission would be doing simulated Space Station science, and that was the purpose that you wanted to see happen as far as that flight. Can you talk about that? Maybe some of the things that they were doing as far as life science?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.259810214744824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Theology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to, I was working on an application for the Ohio Theological Seminary. And the question that just stopped me in my tracks was, what are your goals for this, for this great adventure? And I, I realized that up until that point, I was hoping that the theological training of the seminary would kind of take my hand and show me what it was that I should be thinking about and that I wouldn't have to worry anymore, that everything would be all in place, and all I had to do was just follow those footsteps and there they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I quickly realized that I had some serious thinking to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where had you grown up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.617049647833113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I quickly realized that I had some serious thinking to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban, uh, Royal Oak, Michigan, which is just north of Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went to high school there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.241166275370126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban, uh, Royal Oak, Michigan, which is just north of Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Clarence M. Kimball High School in Royal Oak. And our ties with Detroit were pretty solid. My, my parents had emigrated when they were quite young from the northern peninsula, upper peninsula of Michigan. And they came down to settle, I think during the pre-World War I era. They were both quite young when they came down, and they got married and grew up in Detroit. And all the years that I lived in Michigan, I attended church in Detroit. So it was a very, uh, central part of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. When did you decide to go on to college? And what was your goal in going or why?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.490184750411249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban, uh, Royal Oak, Michigan, which is just north of Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Clarence M. Kimball High School in Royal Oak. And our ties with Detroit were pretty solid. My, my parents had emigrated when they were quite young from the northern peninsula, upper peninsula of Michigan. And they came down to settle, I think during the pre-World War I era. They were both quite young when they came down, and they got married and grew up in Detroit. And all the years that I lived in Michigan, I attended church in Detroit. So it was a very, uh, central part of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. When did you decide to go on to college? And what was your goal in going or why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my earliest feeling about life goals was at Central Methodist Church in Detroit, and I came up with the goal of becoming a minister in the church. I really wanted to emulate our great preacher, who was a very gifted speaker and a great leader of Methodists in the city. And I thought that that was a worthwhile goal. And so when the opportunity came to select a college, I chose Ohio Wesleyan. They gave me a good scholarship package, and everything was going along swimmingly until that famous day in December of 1964, when I had to come up with a detailed roadmap for the rest of my life, and I found I couldn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the degree you received then was a bachelor's in theology?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.181323388767144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have received the Bachelor of Arts in philosophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With theology as the minor. But I eventually finished my studies at Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which, uh, and it had nothing to do with theology at that point. It was area studies in South Asia studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was after the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.534803765296825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With theology as the minor. But I eventually finished my studies at Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which, uh, and it had nothing to do with theology at that point. It was area studies in South Asia studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was after the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the Peace Corps. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But had you going on to graduate school, the track then would have been to become a minister."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.038670850329806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which, uh, and it had nothing to do with theology at that point. It was area studies in South Asia studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was after the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the Peace Corps. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But had you going on to graduate school, the track then would have been to become a minister."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, up to that point, you're finishing college. Had you done any travel in the United States? Outside the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.70963427814423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the Peace Corps. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But had you going on to graduate school, the track then would have been to become a minister."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, up to that point, you're finishing college. Had you done any travel in the United States? Outside the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The farthest that I had traveled was to California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done any special projects during the summers or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.566260309049143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, up to that point, you're finishing college. Had you done any travel in the United States? Outside the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The farthest that I had traveled was to California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done any special projects during the summers or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did spend a summer at Union College in Schenectady, New York. That was in conjunction with a church program that I had grown up with. I think it started back in, uh, in the primary grades. It was instead of the traditional Sunday School curriculum, we had adopted something that Union College was promoting as the Character Research Project. And that summer, I believe it was '62. I spent, no, it was summer of '63, spent at Union College as a staff assistant helping to plan a national parents and families conference on family values and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to that point, September of '65."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.518067010054603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The farthest that I had traveled was to California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done any special projects during the summers or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did spend a summer at Union College in Schenectady, New York. That was in conjunction with a church program that I had grown up with. I think it started back in, uh, in the primary grades. It was instead of the traditional Sunday School curriculum, we had adopted something that Union College was promoting as the Character Research Project. And that summer, I believe it was '62. I spent, no, it was summer of '63, spent at Union College as a staff assistant helping to plan a national parents and families conference on family values and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to that point, September of '65."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your experience with chickens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.796322222305445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He joined together with a group of his friends during World War II and tried to make a stand. They had pulled their resources and decided we need to do something to show people that there's a different way. A better way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first option that they investigated was buying land in Montana. And when they drove all the way out there and found out that the land that they had selected was right next to a missile range and said, well, this is not what we had in mind. So they finally selected a rather large parcel north of Detroit in what is now Madison Heights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they helped each other build their homes. They had a big tractor. I remember the big John Deere tractor and farm, plowing and growing corn and wheat. It was great. And there was a huge barn where we kept pigs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your childhood?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.551469135894939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first option that they investigated was buying land in Montana. And when they drove all the way out there and found out that the land that they had selected was right next to a missile range and said, well, this is not what we had in mind. So they finally selected a rather large parcel north of Detroit in what is now Madison Heights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they helped each other build their homes. They had a big tractor. I remember the big John Deere tractor and farm, plowing and growing corn and wheat. It was great. And there was a huge barn where we kept pigs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your childhood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had the chicken coop right up near our house. And we had a huge fence around it, and the chickens managed to fly way up there to the top. So I did have a little bit of, you know, early childhood memories associated with it. But all the training that I got for the job was from the Peace Corps itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's go jump ahead then. You, had you, did you consciously decide not to apply to graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.32280140233943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had the chicken coop right up near our house. And we had a huge fence around it, and the chickens managed to fly way up there to the top. So I did have a little bit of, you know, early childhood memories associated with it. But all the training that I got for the job was from the Peace Corps itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's go jump ahead then. You, had you, did you consciously decide not to apply to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My, my decision was, the only way I can really make a decision that makes sense to me is to get more experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was what I thought was severely lacking in my outlook at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.980188084650857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I wasn't too far away from Ann Arbor when he made that announcement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, the, uh, the news was quite thorough in that. And, and I think that was a big factor in his election."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think he carried the state of Michigan largely because of that. But deciding to join the Peace Corps was something that I always wanted to do. And suddenly it seemed like the only logical thing to do at that point in my life. So I left school middle of my senior year and went home and told my parents, you're off the hook for tuition. And I got two jobs working in veterinary hospitals, one five days a week, one on weekends, and it was kind of like, buckle down time for me, saving my money and making things happen that were going to be. I remember I put myself on a diet of tiger milk, doing calisthenics, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you applied to the Peace Corps at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8027013390751327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think he carried the state of Michigan largely because of that. But deciding to join the Peace Corps was something that I always wanted to do. And suddenly it seemed like the only logical thing to do at that point in my life. So I left school middle of my senior year and went home and told my parents, you're off the hook for tuition. And I got two jobs working in veterinary hospitals, one five days a week, one on weekends, and it was kind of like, buckle down time for me, saving my money and making things happen that were going to be. I remember I put myself on a diet of tiger milk, doing calisthenics, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you applied to the Peace Corps at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I came home specifically to apply for Peace Corps. And I saw an announcement in the paper that said there's going to be a Peace Corps exam taken tomorrow morning at the federal building in downtown Detroit. So I showed up at the door and they said, well, have you filled out your application yet? I said, what application? They said, well, everybody in here has already filled out their application, but if you're here, you want to take the test, go ahead, take the test. But you're going to have to have that application in the mail by 5:00 tomorrow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. So as it turned out, I took the test, filled out the application, and the only way I got it in the mail by 5:00 was I worked all night on that thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was long."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.216325568004296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must have been, uh, oh, I mean I remember a huge packet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "20 or 30 pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had a, there were six recommendations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.795917297782552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must have been, uh, oh, I mean I remember a huge packet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "20 or 30 pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had a, there were six recommendations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the kinds of things you put in the application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.364757350682138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And working with, uh, well, the fact that we were, we were down in the city of Detroit. And one of the things we had to do was survey people's attitudes about these religious platitudes we all talk about, and finding out does it really make a difference in your life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we did that survey and we worked hard on it for, you know, going out and interviewing people. I went out in Hamtramck, which is a Polish American section of Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the people were very cooperative and willing to talk, which I thought was quite an eye-opener for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, in the application, did you include the agricultural background that you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.071952611869042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we did that survey and we worked hard on it for, you know, going out and interviewing people. I went out in Hamtramck, which is a Polish American section of Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the people were very cooperative and willing to talk, which I thought was quite an eye-opener for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, in the application, did you include the agricultural background that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think at that time I had no idea what kind of program I was looking for, so I wouldn't have mentioned that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you recall putting down a preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.329153102701017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my number one preference was China."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number two preference was, uh, I may have had India in the top three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. And I was kind of disappointed when it wasn't China. At that point I really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied foreign language at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.032392336334463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number two preference was, uh, I may have had India in the top three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. And I was kind of disappointed when it wasn't China. At that point I really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied foreign language at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had studied Spanish in high school, French in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of proficiency or just study?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.813769262593848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. And I was kind of disappointed when it wasn't China. At that point I really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied foreign language at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had studied Spanish in high school, French in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of proficiency or just study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly well. I didn't, I never considered it as a major subject, but I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So you were, you took the exam, you applied. You were preparing yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.681965847326497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had studied Spanish in high school, French in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of proficiency or just study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly well. I didn't, I never considered it as a major subject, but I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So you were, you took the exam, you applied. You were preparing yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own program of preparation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.646628719251662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly well. I didn't, I never considered it as a major subject, but I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So you were, you took the exam, you applied. You were preparing yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own program of preparation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then the invitation came."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9958379250020535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then the invitation came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it came in about late May, about the 29th of May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, it was, we were to respond and be in Annapolis, Maryland, St. John's College, by June 29th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what was your response, reaction, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.167701141977844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, it was, we were to respond and be in Annapolis, Maryland, St. John's College, by June 29th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what was your response, reaction, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No hesitation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. This, this is going to happen. This is great. You know, and everybody just kind of went along and I said, all right, go for it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your peers, your friends think? Had any joined or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.379877953059066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. This, this is going to happen. This is great. You know, and everybody just kind of went along and I said, all right, go for it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your peers, your friends think? Had any joined or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think a lot of them shook their heads and said, oh, he's gone off the deep end finally, you know, we all knew he would someday. And I think most disbelief that that I recall my friends mentioning to me was the fact that I was going to be completely out of touch for two years. Like in a hole somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they, they couldn't understand why anybody would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the impression you had. I mean, you were really going pretty far out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.088753281176739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think a lot of them shook their heads and said, oh, he's gone off the deep end finally, you know, we all knew he would someday. And I think most disbelief that that I recall my friends mentioning to me was the fact that I was going to be completely out of touch for two years. Like in a hole somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they, they couldn't understand why anybody would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the impression you had. I mean, you were really going pretty far out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your own personal reaction to Kennedy's assassination? Because that had happened the year before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.8763925346408215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they, they couldn't understand why anybody would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the impression you had. I mean, you were really going pretty far out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your own personal reaction to Kennedy's assassination? Because that had happened the year before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Yeah. It was huge. It was, it was one of those things that, you know, my, my feeling was here's a man in the prime of his life cut down. And he, uh, he left a legacy that could possibly make a huge difference in the lives of billions of people. And now he can't do it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Reported to St. John's?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.41821392737869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your own personal reaction to Kennedy's assassination? Because that had happened the year before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Yeah. It was huge. It was, it was one of those things that, you know, my, my feeling was here's a man in the prime of his life cut down. And he, uh, he left a legacy that could possibly make a huge difference in the lives of billions of people. And now he can't do it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Reported to St. John's?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Still remember the plane flight landing at Washington National Airport in a prop driven airplane and a very kind of a cloudy day and thinking, well, this is where, where it starts. St. John's College is quite a historic place. It's one of the oldest colleges in the United States. And Francis Scott Key was one of their graduates."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's where, one of the places that developed the Great Books."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.258213576251622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that, that was fascinating to me. As it turned out, our training program was designed around their, their kind of colloquial seminar structure of class instruction. There was never to be a lecturer as such. We were to come prepared to debate the material, not just absorb it. And I remember making quite a number of evaluative type comments during those discussions and coming to the conclusion that, hey, you know, this is, this really, this really is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we had 100 people that started out in that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think only seven did not make it. And those seven were basically self deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.175792862501803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we had 100 people that started out in that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think only seven did not make it. And those seven were basically self deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They decided for themselves that this was something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of the others in the program? I mean, you must have made some comparison or measure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.74594356996132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a terrific assortment of people. They are all, let's see. We had one pair of grandmother, grandfather, grandmother from Indiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Harry and Eleanor Cheek. They just reveled in the energy of the place. And they, they. A lot of us thought, well, gee, you know, they're probably going to wash out. But they made it, they made it all the way through. They stuck it out. And it turned out that they continued the role of elder statesman for the rest of our group during the time of their service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in a good central location, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you when you went in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.562893296248541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in a good central location, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you when you went in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. I would have been 21."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What were the components of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.408921347734402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put up a protest and successfully lobbied for a change halfway through the program so that they could spend their time with their yoga instructor instead of all of this other crap, you know. Let me tell you, there was something about that training program though, that I loved and made a big difference to me. I remember the first day going down to the gym and walking up to the parallel bars. And I had never really messed around with parallel bars at all ever in my life. But I thought, there's something that you're supposed to be able to do if you reach, if you sit down here on the ground and you reach up here, you're supposed to be able to chin yourself and pull your feet up over the top."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, this is impossible. I tried it. I could not do it, you know? And I thought I was a pretty good shape. And I had been an athlete in college, played football, screwed up my knee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played basketball on the junior varsity. I could not do that. But on the last day of the program, I could. It was, it was like a piece of cake. It was like, yeah, there it goes. Now with that, on the final, on the final day of the calisthenics, I remember doing 75 pushups, 150 sit ups. I think, you know, hey, I'm ready. Send me in, coach. So it was, it was just. There's something very poetic about that kind of discipline that paid off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in a sense, it was an individual struggle. I mean, it wasn't like you had to do it to keep up with the group, but it was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.1210237197048905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, this is impossible. I tried it. I could not do it, you know? And I thought I was a pretty good shape. And I had been an athlete in college, played football, screwed up my knee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played basketball on the junior varsity. I could not do that. But on the last day of the program, I could. It was, it was like a piece of cake. It was like, yeah, there it goes. Now with that, on the final, on the final day of the calisthenics, I remember doing 75 pushups, 150 sit ups. I think, you know, hey, I'm ready. Send me in, coach. So it was, it was just. There's something very poetic about that kind of discipline that paid off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in a sense, it was an individual struggle. I mean, it wasn't like you had to do it to keep up with the group, but it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was really self-imposed. Yeah. And that that came through the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.240243438050435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after the training program, they were part of the VISTA program, which was brand new that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they worked for a year following our training program in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember there was a Mr. Gupta who was a great, I guess a quite a powerful civil servant in India before he agreed to do this. And, uh, there was a, I think he was also the guy who did the yoga instruction for a group. It turned out to be a group of about eight or ten guys and a couple of ladies, too, that did that. But for the most part, the rest of us, uh, stuck to the regimen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication that you had to learn Hindi in order to qualify to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.711381597833816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they worked for a year following our training program in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember there was a Mr. Gupta who was a great, I guess a quite a powerful civil servant in India before he agreed to do this. And, uh, there was a, I think he was also the guy who did the yoga instruction for a group. It turned out to be a group of about eight or ten guys and a couple of ladies, too, that did that. But for the most part, the rest of us, uh, stuck to the regimen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication that you had to learn Hindi in order to qualify to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a very public expectation that we would all show significant progress in learning the language, because after all, this was the whole idea of the thing was to relate to people on the, on their own level, and they didn't want anybody going in there with the attitude that you are going to impose your values or your system on anybody. And the best indicator that you weren't going to do that was if you really had good language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it expected that you would be functioning in the work that you were doing in Hindi or Indian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.8165204911528585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a very public expectation that we would all show significant progress in learning the language, because after all, this was the whole idea of the thing was to relate to people on the, on their own level, and they didn't want anybody going in there with the attitude that you are going to impose your values or your system on anybody. And the best indicator that you weren't going to do that was if you really had good language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it expected that you would be functioning in the work that you were doing in Hindi or Indian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we all had, we all had that, that idea that if we wanted to be effective people, we would have to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd have to have that ability. And as it turned out, you know, that was largely correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you tested on language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.230026659278857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Standard language test. And I think at the end of the program, most of us passed with flying colors, you know, but I got a two minus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Highest is four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very proud of the fact by the end of the six month period in country, I got a two plus. So I felt that I was making real progress in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was the language, there was the phys ed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.545989930423671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The seminars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "American studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "American studies, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seminars, did they include studies about India and culture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.495544367137413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The seminars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "American studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "American studies, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seminars, did they include studies about India and culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was still done."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.550604852374903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "American studies, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seminars, did they include studies about India and culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was still done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the colloquial setting? In the colloquium?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.72289428041656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was still done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the colloquial setting? In the colloquium?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then chicken farming or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.448414650777174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great, a great emphasis on that. We had a guy that was in charge of that particular training that came down from Vermont. He was a very successful poultry farmer. And the first thing we did in that thing was to build a group of four chicken houses out of plywood, you know, and also the fifth one. [to pet] Come on now, get over here. The fifth one was made entirely out of native materials, you know, thatch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all took a lot of pride in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great story connected with these chicken houses. We had four chicken houses. We had four seminar groups. We had a kind of a group thing going, right? In our, and we stocked the, the four main houses with hens that were scheduled to be, to become frying chickens, you know. We rescued them from that and, you know, put them back into production. They had been going through a molt. We brought them out of the molt and basically they entered their second year of production while they were with us. And these were at the end of the football field for St. John's College. Right next door to the campus is a helicopter pad. And I think the Coast Guard runs it. They use these helicopters and would go on daily patrol just to do their business.\n\nI still remember this great story. I walked down to collect the eggs in the afternoon just before dinner, and we got about 67 percent production that day, which is, you know, better than it kind of justified. It was about the average. Everybody was getting around 67 to 72 percent. And so there was 67 percent. And so I gathered the eggs and was just writing out the report and I put everything, oh, let's get this. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, the chicken and the eggs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7204607230857483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all took a lot of pride in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great story connected with these chicken houses. We had four chicken houses. We had four seminar groups. We had a kind of a group thing going, right? In our, and we stocked the, the four main houses with hens that were scheduled to be, to become frying chickens, you know. We rescued them from that and, you know, put them back into production. They had been going through a molt. We brought them out of the molt and basically they entered their second year of production while they were with us. And these were at the end of the football field for St. John's College. Right next door to the campus is a helicopter pad. And I think the Coast Guard runs it. They use these helicopters and would go on daily patrol just to do their business.\n\nI still remember this great story. I walked down to collect the eggs in the afternoon just before dinner, and we got about 67 percent production that day, which is, you know, better than it kind of justified. It was about the average. Everybody was getting around 67 to 72 percent. And so there was 67 percent. And so I gathered the eggs and was just writing out the report and I put everything, oh, let's get this. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, the chicken and the eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So with the, with that report in my hand, I walked across the football field ready to kind of basically hang my head saying, you know, we've been trying like crazy to raise the production, when the helicopter flew right over my head, back toward the helicopter pad and must have cleared the poultry houses by about 20 feet. I thought, my God, what? What are those idiots, what are they doing? I ran back. There were eight eggs on the floor. I said, wow, there it is, 85 percent!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funny. That's great. Were you aware, what was the selection process as you were going through the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.731770539212275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, we were told that it was the object of the training staff to pass us all, if at all possible. They wanted all of us to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And realizing that probably not everybody would go. But they told us stories about training programs where people would find out by having a note slipped under their door in the middle of the night and they'd wake up and find out that they'd just been deselected and ordered off the campus. They said, don't worry, that's not going to happen here. If you decide you're not going to go, let us know. And that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think we all, and of the 93 people that went to India, I think we only lost one or two for strange reasons, well, who didn't finish out their tour of duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall going before a panel to be interviewed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.119026802760322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember our, one of my, one of my senior, my seminar instructors pulling me aside, saying, you know, she said, let me tell you that we just got back a detrimental report from your college and we want to ask you about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, okay, what does it say? And it was, it was from the chaplain saying, this guy isn't very religious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I told him as honestly as I could that the whole idea for me leaving in the middle of my senior year was about this experience thing. And I said, if somebody had come to me with this kind of a self revelation and asked my advice about what they should do, I would have told that person that the best thing you could do is do something like joining the Peace Corps. Do the best job you can, and then take stock at the end of the, of the tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the effect of training on you? I mean, did it build confidence? Did it make you uncertain or how did it fit with your?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.802205155860877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, well, that was a package deal, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we said, all right, we'll do our part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we knew that the Peace Corps was going to be looking over our shoulder and wanting to know what was going on. So how could they help and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to the point that you were going, had there been any other chicken projects in India or was yours the first of that sort?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.520050534767378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either VI or VIII [six or eight], one of those. And they, they had, in the middle of their tour of duty, I guess they had been basically agriculture people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they all maybe came to a seminar or something like that and said, you know what? We're missing the boat here because poultry is a good thing. They all need it. They all want it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody is opposed to it. Let's do it. So they got it going and then we were there to follow through so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any Washington visitors?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.753148808354789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody is opposed to it. Let's do it. So they got it going and then we were there to follow through so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any Washington visitors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Oh, let me see. Um. David Schimmel. David Schimmel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one, great guy. I think he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why he was there or did he talk to the. [tape break]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.947943120394209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Oh, let me see. Um. David Schimmel. David Schimmel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one, great guy. I think he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why he was there or did he talk to the. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coming over to Israel to meet with us, too. He followed us halfway around the world. And that's a fascinating story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to that in a minute."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.515979160980505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coming over to Israel to meet with us, too. He followed us halfway around the world. And that's a fascinating story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to that in a minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Phil Kanteneski was our training program director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was a great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the field, Peace Corps field staff come?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.017754623311673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Phil Kanteneski was our training program director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was a great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the field, Peace Corps field staff come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came with us to Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.68639402590186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was a great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the field, Peace Corps field staff come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came with us to Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Stayed with us the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he follow to India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.36591855049612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Stayed with us the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he follow to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he followed as far as Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got our assignments and then he, he came home after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, other than the language instructors, were there any Indians in any other roles in the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.51768727832902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he followed as far as Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got our assignments and then he, he came home after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, other than the language instructors, were there any Indians in any other roles in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think that was pretty much it. It was a group of 8 to 10 language instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people encourage you to, in training staff, encourage you also to begin to tune in on Indian English because that's a change as well as trying to learn Hindi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 24.093411489603746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, a lot of us complained about that. And it's absolutely true. I mean, if you want to get a real laugh out of an Indian, especially a student, somebody who's got some brains going, just show them Hindi script, Hindi vocabulary written in this Romanized script. Oh, they'd just crack up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, uh, it made it. Randy said the, uh, the time, you know, three months in training is just not enough time to, for you to get anything out of going that route. They wanted us to have a good working vocabulary, a conversational familiarity with our subjects. And so that's, that's what we did. And those who never saw our notes were very impressed with how well we spoke Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training's over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went home for a couple of days, I think, on leave."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.27558740096311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had one date during the training program and it was basically just a kind of a here I am kind of situation. So this was an extra week that we got to really decide what was going to happen next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were finally told that half the group would be going to Guam and nobody wanted to go. And half the group would go to Israel. And everyone said, oh, we want to go to Israel. Well, India 16 got to go. I don't know how or why. But the group that went to Guam told us later, oh, that was miserable. You don't know how lucky you are you didn't have to go. But Israel was just great. We loved it. It turned out we stayed for 40 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But every day, every time we got together, maybe every other day, they would always start the meeting by saying, now remember, be flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You, the entire group wasn't assigned out in Israel in the same place, were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.167391853040877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But every day, every time we got together, maybe every other day, they would always start the meeting by saying, now remember, be flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You, the entire group wasn't assigned out in Israel in the same place, were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in fact, we, it took us another week touring the country to decide where they were going to go. And they shipped us to four different kibbutzim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then Ruth was supposed to go to Gesher HaZiv, but then we pulled a few strings and said she can come down to Rosh Hashanah with me, right? Okay. Yeah, she came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's, you spent about, what, four weeks? Five weeks at the kibbutz?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.151724589816716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I've got to tell you, there was a swimming pool at this kibbutz, Rosh Hashanah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they said, be sure and come down to the swimming pool tonight because we're going to have a program down there. And I had, how could they? What's it going to be, water polo or something? Well, they covered the swimming pool and turned it into a stage. And they had an orchestra. They had lighting. They had sound amplification. They had dancers. Like I said, dancers on The Ed Sullivan Show are not as good as these people. This is a professional troupe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said this is the most fantastic group of people you have here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Wow. And you worked on the kibbutz?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.73052418495891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said this is the most fantastic group of people you have here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Wow. And you worked on the kibbutz?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Every day. You got to. We started the routine at 5:30 in the morning. Wake up and go down and have tea and toast at the dining room and then get on the tractor and head out to the fields and work in the fields till about 8:00 in the morning. And then have breakfast, which consisted of hard-boiled eggs and fresh vegetables and laban. Which, you know, when I, when I arrived in Israel, I weighed 170 pounds and I was very trim, athletic build."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the day that we left Israel, on this diet, I weighed over 190 pounds. 40 days later. Laban has got everything you need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like yogurt?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 20.654968129578897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the day that we left Israel, on this diet, I weighed over 190 pounds. 40 days later. Laban has got everything you need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like yogurt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But you had, you can't. I couldn't drink it or eat it straight. I had to add sugar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very sour stuff, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then finally got to India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.945843818897874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, and George Fisher and I sat there and said, well, it looks like we got stuck with the dregs, right? So they said, Udaipur. What can we say about Udaipur? The most fabulous city. What? This city is unlike anything you've ever heard of or seen before. When you get there, you'll just be amazed. The people are just so resilient. This is the only place in northern India that was not conquered by Akbar the Great, because these guys held out. And they, you know, they were the macho guys. They, and they built themselves a princely kingdom there, unlike any. In fact, in honor of that period, the official title of the Rajput who ruled Udaipur is not Maharajah. No, he's elevated one step above Maharaja. He is the Maharana, all right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he is recognized by all the, all the Rajputs. So it was just fantastic. We, we knew. And they said, don't worry about resources. Things are going great there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was all in New Delhi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In New Delhi, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then was it just you and George then took off from New Delhi or did you go in groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.412680135662378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, no, we had a train lot. We all, everybody in Rajasthan left New Delhi on the same train and the Cheeks got off in Jaipur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were the first ones off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we said tata, and basically the order that we got our assignments, that's, that's the way we got off the train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it, was your first introduction to moving about in India where you, did you have first class carriages or third class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.447753253904171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we said tata, and basically the order that we got our assignments, that's, that's the way we got off the train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it, was your first introduction to moving about in India where you, did you have first class carriages or third class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Third class. Third class all the way. That's, that was laid down by Gandhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, why should I travel first class when there are so many that can't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to begin using your Hindi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.053059171004635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Third class. Third class all the way. That's, that was laid down by Gandhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, why should I travel first class when there are so many that can't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to begin using your Hindi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, all the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right from the beginning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.472912556795844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, all the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right from the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going out in the bazaars, buying stuff. It was a lot of fun. It was great. A great adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you got up to your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.303236174217604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going out in the bazaars, buying stuff. It was a lot of fun. It was great. A great adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you got up to your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your setting and for whom did you work and how was the job defined?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.003595749130671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going out in the bazaars, buying stuff. It was a lot of fun. It was great. A great adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you got up to your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your setting and for whom did you work and how was the job defined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, we were, we got to the railway station and I think in very short order we met somebody from the Animal Husbandry Department who came down to greet us and brought us in a rickshaw, horse-drawn rickshaw, and brought us up to the animal hospital. And I don't think we even took our bags. We didn't unpack for a while. We spent the first day there at the animal hospital and that night they took us to the doc bungalow, which is the government quarters, and we just basically stretched out on cots in a hotel room, basically, and just stayed there for a few days before we found some private quarters that we could rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you find them or were they arranged?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.954522090349829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Woolsey and Jim Nelson, whom I'd never met but had a profound influence on my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because everybody thought that they were heroes, and they just thought Bob and Jim were the greatest. After all, hey, they had motorcycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by the way, where is your motorcycle? I said, well, you know, we're writing now, and I'm sure they'll be sending it, you know. Well, we never got motorcycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you expect that you would have them to do your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.505024544833143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because everybody thought that they were heroes, and they just thought Bob and Jim were the greatest. After all, hey, they had motorcycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by the way, where is your motorcycle? I said, well, you know, we're writing now, and I'm sure they'll be sending it, you know. Well, we never got motorcycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you expect that you would have them to do your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we were kind of put out. Hey, come on, the other guys had motorcycles. Why can't we? And the official word came down that, you know, insurance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were facing a mandate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.1166939387034915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by the way, where is your motorcycle? I said, well, you know, we're writing now, and I'm sure they'll be sending it, you know. Well, we never got motorcycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you expect that you would have them to do your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we were kind of put out. Hey, come on, the other guys had motorcycles. Why can't we? And the official word came down that, you know, insurance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were facing a mandate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've got to do something. It's prohibitive to, you know, somehow those guys in the early projects got under a wire somehow, but we can't do that anymore. And so now you guys are going to have to make do with just bicycles. And we thought, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to you were the other the nearest volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.685215487448324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we were kind of put out. Hey, come on, the other guys had motorcycles. Why can't we? And the official word came down that, you know, insurance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were facing a mandate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've got to do something. It's prohibitive to, you know, somehow those guys in the early projects got under a wire somehow, but we can't do that anymore. And so now you guys are going to have to make do with just bicycles. And we thought, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to you were the other the nearest volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a guy from India 19 who was right close by, very close by, maybe two miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.316906097164805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've got to do something. It's prohibitive to, you know, somehow those guys in the early projects got under a wire somehow, but we can't do that anymore. And so now you guys are going to have to make do with just bicycles. And we thought, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to you were the other the nearest volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a guy from India 19 who was right close by, very close by, maybe two miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps office was in New Delhi. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was a day's travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.0187845524053385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a guy from India 19 who was right close by, very close by, maybe two miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps office was in New Delhi. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was a day's travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Easy, easy a day, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the living arrangement, your meals and just the general day-to-day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.787084434026527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, we had no problem with, with the food. We, uh, we ate in restaurants the first few days, you know, everything was great. And we looked around for a cook and we found Bob and Jim's old cook still there in town, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still think of Faisal a lot. Faisal Ali was a real character. He spoke in very, very broken English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he always wore his old, dirty, white turban. And he had a white, fuzzy beard a lot like, a lot like that guy. Yeah, that's I thought of. That was, that was a gift to, to Ruth and I from our, from her brother and his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take your meals at home? Did Faisal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.566645314165331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Faisal did the cooking and he went out and we had a problem first because he moved so slow it would take him all day to do the shopping and they didn't have any time to do anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had to hire another guy to do the shopping for Faisal, and he stayed with us a good long time. He was a sweeper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did a lot of cleanup. It's just incredible how low the wages were that these guys worked for. But there were standard wages. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common for unmarried men, Indians? Would they have the same kind of arrangement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.185161460183702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had to hire another guy to do the shopping for Faisal, and he stayed with us a good long time. He was a sweeper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did a lot of cleanup. It's just incredible how low the wages were that these guys worked for. But there were standard wages. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common for unmarried men, Indians? Would they have the same kind of arrangement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. Very similar. We met a lot of the students in the college and those that didn't actually live on campus. Uh, let's see, we met some kids that were high school age and they were living at home. I think, I can't remember their names. Cucu, Cucu was one, and he had a similar arrangement to what we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the typical workday like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.909711111391101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived at the office and our poultry project officer was there and he said, well, we have a problem and your first assignment is going to be travel to Jaipur as soon as you can. They've just sent us a directive saying that we have only six farmers in our poultry cooperative society, and therefore we do not qualify to have a poultry project office here. And you must tell them that they are changing the rules. When we incorporated this co-operative, six was the minimum and that's what we got. And that's what we're going to have, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, I will do exactly as you say and I will do so on Thursday of this week. In between now and then. Uh, let me see. I understand that there are some other people who may be interested in also becoming members of the cooperative society. By Thursday, we had eight more signed up. So we had 15, you know, 14 or 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hey, no trip to Jaipur was necessary. You know, forget that. We were just going gangbusters right from the very beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the work, building on the work that the India VIII guys had done?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.344123457101223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, I will do exactly as you say and I will do so on Thursday of this week. In between now and then. Uh, let me see. I understand that there are some other people who may be interested in also becoming members of the cooperative society. By Thursday, we had eight more signed up. So we had 15, you know, 14 or 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hey, no trip to Jaipur was necessary. You know, forget that. We were just going gangbusters right from the very beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the work, building on the work that the India VIII guys had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, they had done a fabulous job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were convincing people who had never raised chickens and had never eaten eggs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.826803841223581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hey, no trip to Jaipur was necessary. You know, forget that. We were just going gangbusters right from the very beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the work, building on the work that the India VIII guys had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, they had done a fabulous job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were convincing people who had never raised chickens and had never eaten eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they should do so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.363115379137312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, they had done a fabulous job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were convincing people who had never raised chickens and had never eaten eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they should do so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it went that quickly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.959017087930347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they should do so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it went that quickly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just like wildfire from the very beginning. It's like everybody anticipated what we were going to do. I think Bob and Jim just did a whirlwind thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's just jump to the end of the first year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6211300977003855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it went that quickly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just like wildfire from the very beginning. It's like everybody anticipated what we were going to do. I think Bob and Jim just did a whirlwind thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's just jump to the end of the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, how many people were actually raising chickens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.939666787284427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, how many people were actually raising chickens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. The end of the first year, around 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it just built."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.710740874760474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. The end of the first year, around 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it just built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these were guys who had poultry houses. Minimum 100 birds in each house. And by the end of the first year, they were all making money. That was the key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they market them initially, when you're, as they were developing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.45637874973386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it just built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these were guys who had poultry houses. Minimum 100 birds in each house. And by the end of the first year, they were all making money. That was the key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they market them initially, when you're, as they were developing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's what. My understanding was that was the biggest need of the poultry cooperative society. From the very beginning I said, we are going to have a huge problem marketing these eggs. I said, right now the only outlet that we have is the Dosti Egg Store in Bombay. We're going to have to find some other place because, you know, the prices down there are very flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was Bombay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.736270061399827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's what. My understanding was that was the biggest need of the poultry cooperative society. From the very beginning I said, we are going to have a huge problem marketing these eggs. I said, right now the only outlet that we have is the Dosti Egg Store in Bombay. We're going to have to find some other place because, you know, the prices down there are very flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another overnight. You know, we're halfway between Delhi and Bombay, so it's a full day's journey. So we just, we could sell the eggs. I said, we've got no problem. All we've got to do is pack them in these clay pots, fill it with rice husk, put it on a train and put a label on it saying Dosti Eggs, Bombay, and they'll get there. But the price, you know, they, they sometimes it was like half what we were expecting, but at least it was half, you know. That was the beginning. Then we started, we said, all right, let's get our own egg store right here in town. That'll be good. Hey, they were very reluctant. They thought that'll never work. Who's going to, who's going to buy eggs here? Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we put it up. We had a big grand opening. Very pretty sky blue painting, you know, and it was clean and people could come in and get their eggs and buy one egg at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what was the name of the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.094160569629415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we put it up. We had a big grand opening. Very pretty sky blue painting, you know, and it was clean and people could come in and get their eggs and buy one egg at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what was the name of the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Udaipur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made famous in the James Bond movie, uh, Octopussy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what approximately, what was the population at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.771289521810461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Udaipur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made famous in the James Bond movie, uh, Octopussy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what approximately, what was the population at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "100,000 easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So potentially lots of. Now, did how did people integrate eggs into their diet when they never had them before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.523655024233845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made famous in the James Bond movie, uh, Octopussy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what approximately, what was the population at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "100,000 easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So potentially lots of. Now, did how did people integrate eggs into their diet when they never had them before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone else working on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.350191387943019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone else working on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there were, there were, there was an AID program at the University of Udaipur, no, the state of Rajasthan, what, uh? I think that, well, I guess the University of Udaipur. And there was also a State of Rajasthan College, but the AID people were teaching their kids nutrition. We had a lady from Ohio State University named Fanchon Warfield, and she was teaching nutrition to their, to her kids and teaching cooking. And they had a poultry farm out there that was just coming into production when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a coincidence, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first three, six months, you must have run up, run into some culture shock, some disappointment, some."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.833545986603354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there were, there were, there was an AID program at the University of Udaipur, no, the state of Rajasthan, what, uh? I think that, well, I guess the University of Udaipur. And there was also a State of Rajasthan College, but the AID people were teaching their kids nutrition. We had a lady from Ohio State University named Fanchon Warfield, and she was teaching nutrition to their, to her kids and teaching cooking. And they had a poultry farm out there that was just coming into production when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a coincidence, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first three, six months, you must have run up, run into some culture shock, some disappointment, some."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, I mean, how did that play out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.412235133874697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to chase them off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I was successful. You know, she didn't get injured or anything. But what kind of a world is this, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did finally go back and raise that same question to the guy that I was going to talk to. I said, how can, how can there be people who are so animal-like, you know? And he was a teacher himself. He said, well, you know, you have to understand that there are differences. You know, we have a lot of kids who just don't understand. They just, they listen to old stories and wives’ tales and, you know, they, they don't bother to get experience. They don't get the learning that they need to. The boys that you chased away were from the village, they're not from, they're not from around here. So, you know, you have to keep that in mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a, I mean, were they disapproving of the, or was it alright for you to be there but somehow not for Ruth to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.385475473919378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did finally go back and raise that same question to the guy that I was going to talk to. I said, how can, how can there be people who are so animal-like, you know? And he was a teacher himself. He said, well, you know, you have to understand that there are differences. You know, we have a lot of kids who just don't understand. They just, they listen to old stories and wives’ tales and, you know, they, they don't bother to get experience. They don't get the learning that they need to. The boys that you chased away were from the village, they're not from, they're not from around here. So, you know, you have to keep that in mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a, I mean, were they disapproving of the, or was it alright for you to be there but somehow not for Ruth to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For, in their mind, yeah. They, they thought sending, for American men to come over is one thing. But when you start sending American ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are you doing? You know, you're really changing things and we're not, we're not prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people you work with have access to American films? I know Indian films were a big thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.20608385991042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For, in their mind, yeah. They, they thought sending, for American men to come over is one thing. But when you start sending American ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are you doing? You know, you're really changing things and we're not, we're not prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people you work with have access to American films? I know Indian films were a big thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. First, the first week we were there, we went to see John Wayne in Hatari, and George got his pocket picked in the lobby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they dubbed into Hindi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.117870955456022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are you doing? You know, you're really changing things and we're not, we're not prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people you work with have access to American films? I know Indian films were a big thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. First, the first week we were there, we went to see John Wayne in Hatari, and George got his pocket picked in the lobby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they dubbed into Hindi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the, some impressions of American culture then were coming via the movies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.816009541091938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In order for us to watch the movies, we'd have to read the English subtitles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I saw The Birds that way. Alfred Hitchcock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, it was every Sunday morning they, they showed English movies at the cinema. So Sunday mornings were a good time to go get a, get a refresher on what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health generally during your first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.573343934546597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I saw The Birds that way. Alfred Hitchcock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, it was every Sunday morning they, they showed English movies at the cinema. So Sunday mornings were a good time to go get a, get a refresher on what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health generally during your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a serious health problem. I had amoebiasis [or amebiasis] to deal with. I lost a lot of weight due to that. The biggest problem I had to deal with was headaches. And I realized at one point I'm taking an awful lot of aspirin, you know, just to function. I thought, how am I going to take? Here's what happened. I said, I've got to take this aspirin, but I can't take it with water and I won't have any good water here. So I said, fine, well, give me, give me some tea so I can take this aspirin. And okay, here. I said, wait a minute. How many cups of tea have I had so far today? It's like 2:00 in the afternoon and I start counting all the cups of tea that I had had that day. And I got to over 16 and I wasn't, you know, and I still had more places to visit.\n\nI thought, oh, this is, uh, I'm going to have to make some changes. So we had to refine the, the, I went cold turkey on tea for a while and that straightened it out. But whew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go into the Peace Corps office for medical treatment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.414826593940663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, it was every Sunday morning they, they showed English movies at the cinema. So Sunday mornings were a good time to go get a, get a refresher on what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health generally during your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a serious health problem. I had amoebiasis [or amebiasis] to deal with. I lost a lot of weight due to that. The biggest problem I had to deal with was headaches. And I realized at one point I'm taking an awful lot of aspirin, you know, just to function. I thought, how am I going to take? Here's what happened. I said, I've got to take this aspirin, but I can't take it with water and I won't have any good water here. So I said, fine, well, give me, give me some tea so I can take this aspirin. And okay, here. I said, wait a minute. How many cups of tea have I had so far today? It's like 2:00 in the afternoon and I start counting all the cups of tea that I had had that day. And I got to over 16 and I wasn't, you know, and I still had more places to visit.\n\nI thought, oh, this is, uh, I'm going to have to make some changes. So we had to refine the, the, I went cold turkey on tea for a while and that straightened it out. But whew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go into the Peace Corps office for medical treatment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're talking about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.684971103630447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were talking about Dr. Dutt. He had offices in the local hospital, which was quite a proper British hospital that had been in service for probably 40 or 50 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Indian hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was he Indian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.798314271098007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was. He was trained in India and was a Brahmin, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was very experienced, very kind. I thought of him as a very experienced uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And took care of a number of medical problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had access to drugs like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.664793634553341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was very experienced, very kind. I thought of him as a very experienced uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And took care of a number of medical problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had access to drugs like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Whatever. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps, according to, was all right for you to be treated by him and to take the prescriptions that he suggested?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.462708190806593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Whatever. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps, according to, was all right for you to be treated by him and to take the prescriptions that he suggested?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We got several visits, though, from nurses that came up from the New Delhi office in the, in the Wagoneer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were primarily concerned about making sure we were getting the, the health treatment that we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you. All right, let me jump back. You ended up using bicycles to get around."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.514120212007326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We got several visits, though, from nurses that came up from the New Delhi office in the, in the Wagoneer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were primarily concerned about making sure we were getting the, the health treatment that we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you. All right, let me jump back. You ended up using bicycles to get around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big an area were you covering?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.571244680008139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were primarily concerned about making sure we were getting the, the health treatment that we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you. All right, let me jump back. You ended up using bicycles to get around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big an area were you covering?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huge area. You could drive on a bike. Let's see. To the north of a Udaipur into several villages, probably 15 miles in one direction and 15 miles in the other direction so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you and George tend to go out together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.800860661496934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, yeah, there wasn't much point in duplicating each other. And so we, uh, we were pretty good. George tended to work a lot more with Dave Wilson. He was the Indian 19 guy in agriculture out at the Rural Institute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And. I guess Dave is, Dave Wilson was a guy from Montana that always wore his cowboy hat and boots and had a real rapport with people. I mean, he just, he was laid back and just had a great time wherever he was doing whatever he was doing. You could just tell that the man was satisfied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My style was completely different. I was, I was high energy. I wanted to get done, you know. So I made it a point of, of saying, Dave, you go your way, you do your stuff. I've got to do something else, all right? But George didn't mind that. George, George was also a, uh. George and I made an interesting mix. He was also interested in the ministry in the Congregational Church. He was from New Haven, Connecticut. And his style was to work with people, you know, get things. Get consensus, build consensus. I was out there basically to find results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at any point, let's sort of stick within the first year time frame. Did you feel that you were pushing faster than the people you're working with could accept? I mean, that your need to achieve X was far greater than theirs and you build in that disparity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.413901328298937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they had heard that the business that we were talking about was going to help everybody. This is a win, a win-win for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what was, what we were waiting for? You know, where is this big miracle you guys are talking about? And I was anxious to respond as much as possible. And George, George's response to that was, you know, you've basically been misinformed, you know. What we're trying to do here is not to. And it's a good approach. We're not trying to change your life, okay? We want to help you from where you are, which is a good, good, solid approach. We want to help you from where you are. And if things get better, great. If not, we're going to solve a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the best of our ability. My attitude was a bit more, you know, you want it done? Fine, let's do it. Let's get it done, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did people, Indians, ever get annoyed with you because you wanted to see it done within the next three days? And their timeframe was significantly different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.782594232467822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the best of our ability. My attitude was a bit more, you know, you want it done? Fine, let's do it. Let's get it done, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did people, Indians, ever get annoyed with you because you wanted to see it done within the next three days? And their timeframe was significantly different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me tell you what really changed my approach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After about three or four months, I recall going to the home of Dr. Mehta. Dr. Mehta is an attorney and I believe he was also a member of the Indian Communist Party, CPI, Communist Party of India. His son and I had a conversation in which I recall asking, well, what do you, what do you think about George and I as volunteers? And he looked at me for a long time. This kid was about 13 years old. And he said, we think you're a couple of jokers. I said, really, why? He says, well, you know, you're always, you always have something really funny to say. And, you know, that set me back. I said, well, thank you very much.\n\nWe had another conversation about a year later in which he, he told me that he thought we were doing a good job. We're different from Bob and Jim. But he said, you know, there are so many people now who believe that this is a good thing, they said. We thank you. We all thank you. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you called in for conferences with Peace Corps and was the discussion of what your role was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.313993591630914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me tell you what really changed my approach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After about three or four months, I recall going to the home of Dr. Mehta. Dr. Mehta is an attorney and I believe he was also a member of the Indian Communist Party, CPI, Communist Party of India. His son and I had a conversation in which I recall asking, well, what do you, what do you think about George and I as volunteers? And he looked at me for a long time. This kid was about 13 years old. And he said, we think you're a couple of jokers. I said, really, why? He says, well, you know, you're always, you always have something really funny to say. And, you know, that set me back. I said, well, thank you very much.\n\nWe had another conversation about a year later in which he, he told me that he thought we were doing a good job. We're different from Bob and Jim. But he said, you know, there are so many people now who believe that this is a good thing, they said. We thank you. We all thank you. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you called in for conferences with Peace Corps and was the discussion of what your role was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our three month seminar was there in [inaudible], and then we had a six month seminar down in Goa and a one year seminar later on. I'm not sure where that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What came out of that in your own mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.575207425134756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we even had one guy that went completely native. I think he's still living over there. Uh, and one guy that went home on a, uh, on a insanity thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was, he was taken home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was taken out of his situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh, but for the most part, we were a remarkable group.\n\nWas Peace Corps giving you the tools with which to evaluate your own progress, or would they sort of suggesting, well, you're doing well, you're not doing well. You should be looking to this area."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.413836327326859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was taken out of his situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh, but for the most part, we were a remarkable group.\n\nWas Peace Corps giving you the tools with which to evaluate your own progress, or would they sort of suggesting, well, you're doing well, you're not doing well. You should be looking to this area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were. Every time we got together, the attitude of the staff was, tell us what you're doing, because we need to keep in touch. We need to use, we'd like to use as much information as you can give us to help decide what's going to happen next. And that really, that came through loud and clear. At the end of the, into our second year, we actually had the opportunity to work with the, with the training for India 34 and 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who were getting their training in country. These guys were coming fresh from home. And wow, I don't think I would have wished that, myself. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the idea was to get more mileage of the two year tour, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.904262585918731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were. Every time we got together, the attitude of the staff was, tell us what you're doing, because we need to keep in touch. We need to use, we'd like to use as much information as you can give us to help decide what's going to happen next. And that really, that came through loud and clear. At the end of the, into our second year, we actually had the opportunity to work with the, with the training for India 34 and 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who were getting their training in country. These guys were coming fresh from home. And wow, I don't think I would have wished that, myself. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the idea was to get more mileage of the two year tour, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I think that they had a slightly higher attrition rate, higher than necessary too. I know of a young married couple that went through India 34 and I, uh, I really had hoped that their situation could have been much more developed, but they were out in really primitive, primitive conditions, living in mud huts. We, I mean, our hearts went out to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. A couple of things about living conditions. Did you, did you seek out and find fellow Methodists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.355641407295927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn't do that. But I did have quite a lot of contact with the local United Church of North India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's where Ruth and I were married. We, we did our wedding there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went through all the red tape of finding a missionary who was licensed to marry foreigners. Not, not easy to come by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Christmas, was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.950712674773252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's where Ruth and I were married. We, we did our wedding there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went through all the red tape of finding a missionary who was licensed to marry foreigners. Not, not easy to come by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Christmas, was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly do not. I'm sure it would have been something that we tried to celebrate, probably by writing letters home, that sort of thing. But it was really no big deal for us. We were surprised that so many Indians in India celebrated our holidays. And I wondered how, how sincere is this, really? But no, Christmas was, was a big deal, bigger probably for them than it was for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, within the town, the city that you were in, was there a significant Christian population?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.611902971970279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went through all the red tape of finding a missionary who was licensed to marry foreigners. Not, not easy to come by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Christmas, was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly do not. I'm sure it would have been something that we tried to celebrate, probably by writing letters home, that sort of thing. But it was really no big deal for us. We were surprised that so many Indians in India celebrated our holidays. And I wondered how, how sincere is this, really? But no, Christmas was, was a big deal, bigger probably for them than it was for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, within the town, the city that you were in, was there a significant Christian population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there probably was. There probably was. But I, uh, did not come in contact with them as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missionaries had been active up there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.346558857744754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly do not. I'm sure it would have been something that we tried to celebrate, probably by writing letters home, that sort of thing. But it was really no big deal for us. We were surprised that so many Indians in India celebrated our holidays. And I wondered how, how sincere is this, really? But no, Christmas was, was a big deal, bigger probably for them than it was for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, within the town, the city that you were in, was there a significant Christian population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there probably was. There probably was. But I, uh, did not come in contact with them as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missionaries had been active up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a long time. Yeah. All right. Coming toward the end of the first year, by then had you and Ruth decided to get married?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.162843175271949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there probably was. There probably was. But I, uh, did not come in contact with them as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missionaries had been active up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a long time. Yeah. All right. Coming toward the end of the first year, by then had you and Ruth decided to get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had actually decided that after the three month conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did Peace Corps take to all this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.736492416968832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a long time. Yeah. All right. Coming toward the end of the first year, by then had you and Ruth decided to get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had actually decided that after the three month conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did Peace Corps take to all this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I remember Felix Connaught writing me a letter after my first request was denied. You know, my first request was to visit Ruth in her site down in Satara. And he said, you know, we don't normally encourage fraternization between volunteers when they're supposed to be in their sites doing their jobs. And I wrote back to him saying, Mr. Connaught, please, sir, you don't understand. You know, this thing with Ruth and I is not some kind of a, you know, temporary thing. You know, we're, we really are going to get married. And so that's why this is necessary. And I said, we'll, we'll be doing the best we can, you know, to maintain everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did have vacation time, though, didn't you, coming after?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3906301127401792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think he went to, um, where was it, with the, or the Princess Hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nepal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sikkim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sikkim, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to Sikkim, of all places. And Nepal. And I never got to those places. The farthest east I ever got was Benaras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But you were, you were also then concentrating on seeing routes and working out the details."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6562556808224214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sikkim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sikkim, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to Sikkim, of all places. And Nepal. And I never got to those places. The farthest east I ever got was Benaras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But you were, you were also then concentrating on seeing routes and working out the details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we also had our honeymoon that we used our vacation time for, so I think we were saving up for that. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't stay in your village for the honeymoon?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9513952009138014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to Sikkim, of all places. And Nepal. And I never got to those places. The farthest east I ever got was Benaras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But you were, you were also then concentrating on seeing routes and working out the details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we also had our honeymoon that we used our vacation time for, so I think we were saving up for that. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't stay in your village for the honeymoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel outside of India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.168216889904224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we also had our honeymoon that we used our vacation time for, so I think we were saving up for that. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't stay in your village for the honeymoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel outside of India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, if you can call Kashmir outside India. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you specifically forbidden to travel outside the country? Do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4091298776713597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel outside of India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, if you can call Kashmir outside India. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you specifically forbidden to travel outside the country? Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an issue in some places."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.3047049076424684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I think we probably were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for, you know, they said unless you're actually traveling home, we didn't, we don't think you're going to be interested in doing any of that. But they did want us to travel as much as possible within the country so that we could become more aware of all the conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know. But that was all, in my mind that was all, you know, when they said as much as possible, that was, you know, keeping in mind that your first priority is getting the work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming to the end of the first year, you're about to get married. Did you look back over the year? What was your sense of, you know, you joined the Peace Corps way back then and was it happening? You know, where were you with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4496721196027427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for, you know, they said unless you're actually traveling home, we didn't, we don't think you're going to be interested in doing any of that. But they did want us to travel as much as possible within the country so that we could become more aware of all the conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know. But that was all, in my mind that was all, you know, when they said as much as possible, that was, you know, keeping in mind that your first priority is getting the work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming to the end of the first year, you're about to get married. Did you look back over the year? What was your sense of, you know, you joined the Peace Corps way back then and was it happening? You know, where were you with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything seemed to be moving very quickly. I had been the person, somehow I got designated the official report writer. After each month we had to send a report, or I was sending monthly reports into Delhi and letting them know what our results were in terms of helping the cooperative, what our requirements were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a form that you used?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.610746799558603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know. But that was all, in my mind that was all, you know, when they said as much as possible, that was, you know, keeping in mind that your first priority is getting the work done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming to the end of the first year, you're about to get married. Did you look back over the year? What was your sense of, you know, you joined the Peace Corps way back then and was it happening? You know, where were you with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything seemed to be moving very quickly. I had been the person, somehow I got designated the official report writer. After each month we had to send a report, or I was sending monthly reports into Delhi and letting them know what our results were in terms of helping the cooperative, what our requirements were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a form that you used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just an open ended."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7897186661762254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything seemed to be moving very quickly. I had been the person, somehow I got designated the official report writer. After each month we had to send a report, or I was sending monthly reports into Delhi and letting them know what our results were in terms of helping the cooperative, what our requirements were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a form that you used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just an open ended."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just an open ended thing. I think the reason I got designated was I was the only one with a typewriter, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And every month you had a report."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2095292175015127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just an open ended thing. I think the reason I got designated was I was the only one with a typewriter, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And every month you had a report."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't know if I had to, but I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got usually quite prompt replies from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all went to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4550324638905696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't know if I had to, but I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got usually quite prompt replies from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The north regional office in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in turn?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7278138487672994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got usually quite prompt replies from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The north regional office in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in turn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they, uh, there was a central office for India also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever concern that they were sharing that with the CIA or that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9197931652969995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The north regional office in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in turn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they, uh, there was a central office for India also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever concern that they were sharing that with the CIA or that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all, because it was made quite clear that there would be no, uh, no ties with the CIA at all during the time we were there. And they said, in case you're thinking of joining the CIA after you leave the Peace Corps, forget it. You have to wait at least two years, you know, in which case none of your information would be that valuable. So don't worry about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reporting essentially was, was job oriented."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.133103516996666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they, uh, there was a central office for India also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever concern that they were sharing that with the CIA or that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all, because it was made quite clear that there would be no, uh, no ties with the CIA at all during the time we were there. And they said, in case you're thinking of joining the CIA after you leave the Peace Corps, forget it. You have to wait at least two years, you know, in which case none of your information would be that valuable. So don't worry about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reporting essentially was, was job oriented."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it wasn't like the local Communist Party has been staging rallies on this issue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6334611320946495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it wasn't like the local Communist Party has been staging rallies on this issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I, I don't think I ever even mentioned Mr. Mehta's, or Dr. Mehta's, affiliation officially in writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I just, I knew that some other people recognized him as a member of the CPI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So end of the first year, you were ready to, did you set any new goals for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9260679245496104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I, I don't think I ever even mentioned Mr. Mehta's, or Dr. Mehta's, affiliation officially in writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I just, I knew that some other people recognized him as a member of the CPI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So end of the first year, you were ready to, did you set any new goals for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being a married man."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.01381059609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we, we made a conscious decision somewhere around there to introduce broilers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And make a concerted effort to market poultry, meat products. And the reason for that was made abundantly clear when one of our most successful poultry farmers got into big trouble with the local authorities when he, he evicted all the young males from his poultry flock and let them run wild. He said, I'm not feeding you anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, they were, it was quite a circus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, culturally were, culturally were most people vegetarian? Or they just, there was very little protein in the diet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.43046721000000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, the Muslims were not vegetarian at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the, there were some, the Brahmans of course were vegetarian and there were some religious sects like the Jains who were pure vegetarian. They wouldn't even touch milk. I mean, the Brahmins would drink milk. But, you know, the funny thing was all of them would eat vegetarian eggs if you told them they were vegetarian eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then they wouldn't then take the next step of eating chicken."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the, there were some, the Brahmans of course were vegetarian and there were some religious sects like the Jains who were pure vegetarian. They wouldn't even touch milk. I mean, the Brahmins would drink milk. But, you know, the funny thing was all of them would eat vegetarian eggs if you told them they were vegetarian eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then they wouldn't then take the next step of eating chicken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Well, anyone who would eat meat would eat chicken. A lot of, a lot of people had prohibitions against certain kinds of meat, but meat was the one, chicken was the one meat that was common to all meat eaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh, yeah. All right. But then within the contemporary culture, people did not know how to cook chicken? I mean, they gave him a chicken."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then they wouldn't then take the next step of eating chicken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Well, anyone who would eat meat would eat chicken. A lot of, a lot of people had prohibitions against certain kinds of meat, but meat was the one, chicken was the one meat that was common to all meat eaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh, yeah. All right. But then within the contemporary culture, people did not know how to cook chicken? I mean, they gave him a chicken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, how did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00174:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might see some chickens hanging in the local bazaar by their feet, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you assume that people would take them home and cook them somehow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally what people would do would be to make curry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Chop it up and throw it in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.233267114400153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the people that are on that list have since flown to the Mir on the Shuttle, many as the commander. Charlie Precourt commanded two trips to Mir since his DOR duties. So learning the language and learning how Mir operates, learning to interface with the people and everything, I think, has helped those people quite a bit when they travel back to Mir. Baker was a commander going to the Mir. Let's see. Ken Cameron did. Readdy did. Wendy flew to the Mir twice as a Shuttle crew member.\\n\\n I think it will also be beneficial to them for future work with the Russian on the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they have some on the job training for future work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think most of them thought that it was kind of fun to do, but they were initially worried that it took them out of the mainstream also, but I think it has turned out to them that it's been worth the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More of an investment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were a small part of the operations in Russia, or a large part? Would you expand a little more on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.481407904889057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think most of them thought that it was kind of fun to do, but they were initially worried that it took them out of the mainstream also, but I think it has turned out to them that it's been worth the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More of an investment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were a small part of the operations in Russia, or a large part? Would you expand a little more on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say a large part, because establishing a good working relationship with the Russians was very important, and establishing everything that our astronauts needed while in Russia was very important for the successful training and successful operation completely of the Phase 1 program, so they were very important to get all that established. They helped establish requirements for things like the communications that I mentioned earlier, helped us to understand a little bit more of the system that we had to go through to get those things accomplished. Generally they were our eyes in Russia, and were very valuable.\\n\\n I said earlier that early on we had to travel to Russia, and it was still important for us to travel to Russia a lot, but with somebody there that understood our side and the way we operated, that could directly talk to the Russians, it was not necessary to travel nearly as often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that this full time presence in this capacity helped the Russians feel more confident or more secure in the United States' commitment to the operation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.085535580431602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Russians have been pretty good about it. On their own, I guess because we had provided the cosmonauts that were training in the US, pretty nice housing, they have built additional housing for our astronauts that is to Western standards. They initially provided cosmonaut housing for our astronauts and that was typically kind of a high-rise apartment arrangement. The apartments were nice by Russian standards, but the new housing is even nicer and is close to the Profy.\\n\\n They have now built a total of three of these cottages and because Space Station training has already started, we are leasing all three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the opposite side of the world, tell us how you arranged for housing for the cosmonauts. Was that difficult or was that an easy part of your task?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are a couple of people that worked for me when I was the Russian Projects Office. I should mention Kathy Dawes ran the language school.\\n\\n Travis Brice also was another person that you might want to talk to. He's the contracts person, and also took care of most of the things like housing for the cosmonauts and things like that. Travis has done several things for us, including the com center that I mentioned earlier. He was instrumental in working those details to establish the center. He also worked to get better rates for the primary hotel we use in Russia, the Penta. He's worked the language contracts for us. He also works the contract with the Russian for DOR support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I will find him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's now right across the corner from me here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then he's easy to find. That's good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.206150644924001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are a couple of people that worked for me when I was the Russian Projects Office. I should mention Kathy Dawes ran the language school.\\n\\n Travis Brice also was another person that you might want to talk to. He's the contracts person, and also took care of most of the things like housing for the cosmonauts and things like that. Travis has done several things for us, including the com center that I mentioned earlier. He was instrumental in working those details to establish the center. He also worked to get better rates for the primary hotel we use in Russia, the Penta. He's worked the language contracts for us. He also works the contract with the Russian for DOR support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I will find him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's now right across the corner from me here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then he's easy to find. That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There have been difficulties as far as determining what the cosmonauts expect, and them deciding what it is that they can ask for and what they should ask for. Some, of course, are more bold about asking for things than others. In their own country, the cosmonauts have a very high status. Around here, astronauts and cosmonauts are not treated quite as highly, I guess, as what they are accustomed to, but we did gave them nice housing and good treatment. A couple of them just thought that they needed other things that we probably didn't think of at the beginning, but we try to work with them in every way to make them comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was just one more part of the evolution as you went through and learned."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.45127849436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's now right across the corner from me here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then he's easy to find. That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There have been difficulties as far as determining what the cosmonauts expect, and them deciding what it is that they can ask for and what they should ask for. Some, of course, are more bold about asking for things than others. In their own country, the cosmonauts have a very high status. Around here, astronauts and cosmonauts are not treated quite as highly, I guess, as what they are accustomed to, but we did gave them nice housing and good treatment. A couple of them just thought that they needed other things that we probably didn't think of at the beginning, but we try to work with them in every way to make them comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was just one more part of the evolution as you went through and learned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. In some cases, we were just learning expectations and learning how people normally behaved. It's been interesting, overall, just learning the differences in cultures and things like that. I'm sure you've been told that over and over again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everyone's had different experiences with it. I was going to ask you what you felt was probably some of the more challenging aspects of getting through this Phase 1 project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Training is an issue in Phase 2 thing that we've got to work a lot. In Phase 1, like I said very early, we anticipated generally that we were going to use their training system. I mean, we were a guest in their country to participate in their program, the same way when a cosmonaut came over here, we didn't do anything differently in Shuttle training.\\n\\n In Phase 1, we made changes, but we tried to keep those to a minimum, just because we knew that we weren't supposed to make a lot of changes. In Phase 2, there will be a lot of differences, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine, though, that if many changes in the flexibility that you had during the last three or four years, that at least with the new phase, you'll have a little bit more time to put things in place. So you're well prepared for the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have time, but yet crews right now are several months into training for Phase 2, and already the training materials are behind schedule to support the training. So we're behind, actually, for Phase 2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we'll never catch up. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not until we're well established. Probably ten years from now, after the station is flying around, we'll finally catch up and have everything established."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of all of the things that you've done for Phase 1, do you find anything, one thing or a couple of things that you feel that were significant contributions based on your personal contributions to the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have time, but yet crews right now are several months into training for Phase 2, and already the training materials are behind schedule to support the training. So we're behind, actually, for Phase 2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we'll never catch up. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not until we're well established. Probably ten years from now, after the station is flying around, we'll finally catch up and have everything established."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of all of the things that you've done for Phase 1, do you find anything, one thing or a couple of things that you feel that were significant contributions based on your personal contributions to the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most significant things, I think, are just making things easier to work with the Russians, like the communications, and once we got there, the transportation, making it easier to deal with them and for us to work in Russia. I think those were the biggest things that I contributed. As far as training goes, we established some good working relationships, and that's significant. But generally just being able to work with and in Russia, I think, would be the biggest thing that we've done in Phase 1 and what I've done both in the program office and what I'm doing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not until we're well established. Probably ten years from now, after the station is flying around, we'll finally catch up and have everything established."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of all of the things that you've done for Phase 1, do you find anything, one thing or a couple of things that you feel that were significant contributions based on your personal contributions to the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most significant things, I think, are just making things easier to work with the Russians, like the communications, and once we got there, the transportation, making it easier to deal with them and for us to work in Russia. I think those were the biggest things that I contributed. As far as training goes, we established some good working relationships, and that's significant. But generally just being able to work with and in Russia, I think, would be the biggest thing that we've done in Phase 1 and what I've done both in the program office and what I'm doing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This concludes our interview. Do you have anything you [Davison] want to ask?\n\nI'll ask one question, see if you can clear up. We talked to Jeff [Cardenas] about the science training, and we talked to you about the systems training. We haven't really heard how those two mesh, whether they are run in parallel, or are they all over in Russia or some in the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most significant things, I think, are just making things easier to work with the Russians, like the communications, and once we got there, the transportation, making it easier to deal with them and for us to work in Russia. I think those were the biggest things that I contributed. As far as training goes, we established some good working relationships, and that's significant. But generally just being able to work with and in Russia, I think, would be the biggest thing that we've done in Phase 1 and what I've done both in the program office and what I'm doing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This concludes our interview. Do you have anything you [Davison] want to ask?\n\nI'll ask one question, see if you can clear up. We talked to Jeff [Cardenas] about the science training, and we talked to you about the systems training. We haven't really heard how those two mesh, whether they are run in parallel, or are they all over in Russia or some in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some was in the United States and some was in Russia. Generally, all the systems training for Mir was done in Russia, and science training also was done in Russia and the US. Actually, Jeff had a person there that worked with the Russia schedulers to schedule in the science training so it ran in parallel.\\n\\n The sessions that we had back here generally concentrated mostly on science, with a little of time for the cosmonauts to learn some about Shuttle, for their docked activities. There were two US sessions of 3 weeks each. I think we ended up with ninety six hours each session of science training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there integration training within the Mir mockup or the Spektr or the Priroda, a mockup?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00768:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This concludes our interview. Do you have anything you [Davison] want to ask?\n\nI'll ask one question, see if you can clear up. We talked to Jeff [Cardenas] about the science training, and we talked to you about the systems training. We haven't really heard how those two mesh, whether they are run in parallel, or are they all over in Russia or some in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some was in the United States and some was in Russia. Generally, all the systems training for Mir was done in Russia, and science training also was done in Russia and the US. Actually, Jeff had a person there that worked with the Russia schedulers to schedule in the science training so it ran in parallel.\\n\\n The sessions that we had back here generally concentrated mostly on science, with a little of time for the cosmonauts to learn some about Shuttle, for their docked activities. There were two US sessions of 3 weeks each. I think we ended up with ninety six hours each session of science training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there integration training within the Mir mockup or the Spektr or the Priroda, a mockup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. There's some of it. It took a little time to get those mockups configured with some of our science hardware and early on they didn't have much of U.S. science in there. Crews could see what the mockup looked like inside, and some of the science configuration, but not all of the hardware was there, and not all of it was kept up to date as far as the configuration goes. But our guys generally did get time in all the Russian trainers, and we got some pretty valuable training in the Russian trainers, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks again. We wish you luck."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.8671815412807895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh wow. Let's see. I had been married in September of '68 and was at Yale working to support my husband through graduate school. And he needed to avoid the draft further. So we chose to go into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's go. Where he done your undergraduate work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did my undergraduate work at St. Olaf College in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Saint?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Olaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. What was your degree in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.741312823645321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did my undergraduate work at St. Olaf College in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Saint?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Olaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. What was your degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Art, but headed for architecture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where had you grown up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.490347581828135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Olaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. What was your degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Art, but headed for architecture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Decorah, Iowa, a small town of six thousand in the northeast corner of Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One might consider it a rural community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.322608424253483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Art, but headed for architecture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Decorah, Iowa, a small town of six thousand in the northeast corner of Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One might consider it a rural community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small rural area, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you go to high school there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.274825215127755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small rural area, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you go to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during high school, were you active in volunteer activities? What did you do in summers, get to do any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.972028016808618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during high school, were you active in volunteer activities? What did you do in summers, get to do any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I probably hadn't left the state of Iowa, except for Minnesota, maybe to Rochester or La Crosse, Wisconsin. I think I had to work every summer. I had to work to earn a little bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working at a store or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6355866853429095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during high school, were you active in volunteer activities? What did you do in summers, get to do any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I probably hadn't left the state of Iowa, except for Minnesota, maybe to Rochester or La Crosse, Wisconsin. I think I had to work every summer. I had to work to earn a little bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working at a store or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I was involved in, you know, Girl Scouts and church activities and typical civic kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not 4-H kind of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.3728740948254545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I probably hadn't left the state of Iowa, except for Minnesota, maybe to Rochester or La Crosse, Wisconsin. I think I had to work every summer. I had to work to earn a little bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working at a store or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I was involved in, you know, Girl Scouts and church activities and typical civic kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not 4-H kind of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not live on a farm. It was a town of six thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Were you the first in the family to go on to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.858748994250504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I was involved in, you know, Girl Scouts and church activities and typical civic kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not 4-H kind of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not live on a farm. It was a town of six thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Were you the first in the family to go on to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my father very deliberately left a insurance company to become treasurer of Luther College so that all of us could have a college education. He had not finished a four year, but a two year program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're finishing high school, you're going to St. Olaf, which is close, not too far?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.28749888250056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not live on a farm. It was a town of six thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Were you the first in the family to go on to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my father very deliberately left a insurance company to become treasurer of Luther College so that all of us could have a college education. He had not finished a four year, but a two year program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're finishing high school, you're going to St. Olaf, which is close, not too far?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yes. Two and a half hours north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, what is your goal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.652776536111733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my father very deliberately left a insurance company to become treasurer of Luther College so that all of us could have a college education. He had not finished a four year, but a two year program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're finishing high school, you're going to St. Olaf, which is close, not too far?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yes. Two and a half hours north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, what is your goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in high school, I was determined I was going to be an architect. But my parents didn't feel that I should go directly to an architecture program. And I basically had the choice to go to Luther College in my hometown or to St. Olaf, which was my mother's alma mater. So I was still determined to be an architect. So I went through St. Olaf in three years so that I could start architecture school as soon as possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the interest in architecture come from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.058640595679703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yes. Two and a half hours north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, what is your goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in high school, I was determined I was going to be an architect. But my parents didn't feel that I should go directly to an architecture program. And I basically had the choice to go to Luther College in my hometown or to St. Olaf, which was my mother's alma mater. So I was still determined to be an architect. So I went through St. Olaf in three years so that I could start architecture school as soon as possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the interest in architecture come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in part, I suppose, I followed my father around as he was the sort of client for the college in the college buildings. So I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it was there. So you zipped through St. Olaf in three years. During summers, you're working."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.509600661866337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in high school, I was determined I was going to be an architect. But my parents didn't feel that I should go directly to an architecture program. And I basically had the choice to go to Luther College in my hometown or to St. Olaf, which was my mother's alma mater. So I was still determined to be an architect. So I went through St. Olaf in three years so that I could start architecture school as soon as possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the interest in architecture come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in part, I suppose, I followed my father around as he was the sort of client for the college in the college buildings. So I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it was there. So you zipped through St. Olaf in three years. During summers, you're working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.010667402073707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in part, I suppose, I followed my father around as he was the sort of client for the college in the college buildings. So I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it was there. So you zipped through St. Olaf in three years. During summers, you're working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished you and your degree is in art. What happens at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.45629711341523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished you and your degree is in art. What happens at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point, I get married and my architecture is delayed. But with the understanding, I mean, I met my future husband at St. Olaf, and he was in an architecture program at Yale. So it was agreed that I would work to help him through school and then I would go to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. At what point through your time at St. Olaf do you remember when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7292190149058118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished you and your degree is in art. What happens at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point, I get married and my architecture is delayed. But with the understanding, I mean, I met my future husband at St. Olaf, and he was in an architecture program at Yale. So it was agreed that I would work to help him through school and then I would go to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. At what point through your time at St. Olaf do you remember when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not exactly. I don't, I mean, it was a pretty cloistered school. I mean, yes, we knew Kennedy and Vietnam and all that kind of but, but we were so focused on academics. At least I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you known anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0324655721175686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point, I get married and my architecture is delayed. But with the understanding, I mean, I met my future husband at St. Olaf, and he was in an architecture program at Yale. So it was agreed that I would work to help him through school and then I would go to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. At what point through your time at St. Olaf do you remember when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not exactly. I don't, I mean, it was a pretty cloistered school. I mean, yes, we knew Kennedy and Vietnam and all that kind of but, but we were so focused on academics. At least I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you known anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you then transferred. You go over to New Haven."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.369406191241743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not exactly. I don't, I mean, it was a pretty cloistered school. I mean, yes, we knew Kennedy and Vietnam and all that kind of but, but we were so focused on academics. At least I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you known anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you then transferred. You go over to New Haven."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're working in your husband's going to architecture school. Did he finish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.74378465693527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you then transferred. You go over to New Haven."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're working in your husband's going to architecture school. Did he finish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't start."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.159760729928077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're working in your husband's going to architecture school. Did he finish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't start."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead, you joined the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.621956366586753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't start."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead, you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially, it was a sense of continuing. Did he feel he was safer from the draft in the Peace Corps than at architectural school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.135507073985281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead, you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially, it was a sense of continuing. Did he feel he was safer from the draft in the Peace Corps than at architectural school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, once you finished that, deferment was over. You had no choice really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was pretty much a done deal then in both of your minds. Do you recall applying, filling out the application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.706118971094756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially, it was a sense of continuing. Did he feel he was safer from the draft in the Peace Corps than at architectural school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, once you finished that, deferment was over. You had no choice really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was pretty much a done deal then in both of your minds. Do you recall applying, filling out the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. Among other things that often they ask if you have an area of preference and if you have any."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.2290210789941725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, once you finished that, deferment was over. You had no choice really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was pretty much a done deal then in both of your minds. Do you recall applying, filling out the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. Among other things that often they ask if you have an area of preference and if you have any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do remember that part, because we basically said anywhere else but Latin America, because we thought that was too close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they may have also asked you to indicate whether you had any facility in the foreign language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.698912309993525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. Among other things that often they ask if you have an area of preference and if you have any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do remember that part, because we basically said anywhere else but Latin America, because we thought that was too close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they may have also asked you to indicate whether you had any facility in the foreign language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was French at the time, you know, from college. And that wasn't, I mean, I guess I was never great in languages, so I didn't consider that an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your husband?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.221013677770583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do remember that part, because we basically said anywhere else but Latin America, because we thought that was too close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they may have also asked you to indicate whether you had any facility in the foreign language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was French at the time, you know, from college. And that wasn't, I mean, I guess I was never great in languages, so I didn't consider that an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did have his degree in architecture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.801126308633981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was French at the time, you know, from college. And that wasn't, I mean, I guess I was never great in languages, so I didn't consider that an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did have his degree in architecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family's reaction about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.33458478737109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did have his degree in architecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family's reaction about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family, well on the one hand, they thought we were going halfway around the world, but on the other hand, you know, it was second best to being a missionary. So it was OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.927316430412322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family's reaction about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family, well on the one hand, they thought we were going halfway around the world, but on the other hand, you know, it was second best to being a missionary. So it was OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got an invitation. And what was the invitation from Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.363684922680358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family, well on the one hand, they thought we were going halfway around the world, but on the other hand, you know, it was second best to being a missionary. So it was OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got an invitation. And what was the invitation from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like less than six weeks later you were to be in Washington, D.C. and ship off. So it was very quick, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Specifically you were being invited to Chile?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.848538802978175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got an invitation. And what was the invitation from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like less than six weeks later you were to be in Washington, D.C. and ship off. So it was very quick, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Specifically you were being invited to Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be in the self-help housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the idea that you were both going to be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.387265336642416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like less than six weeks later you were to be in Washington, D.C. and ship off. So it was very quick, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Specifically you were being invited to Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be in the self-help housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the idea that you were both going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a couples program. It was geared. All of us in the group were couples. The man was to do the self-help program, and the woman was to be a social worker, of which I had no training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. It sounds like a 1970s program. But you had no hesitation. You accepted the invitation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.985850374047129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be in the self-help housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the idea that you were both going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a couples program. It was geared. All of us in the group were couples. The man was to do the self-help program, and the woman was to be a social worker, of which I had no training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. It sounds like a 1970s program. But you had no hesitation. You accepted the invitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in those days, I think they had already begun in-country training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.650944860052366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a couples program. It was geared. All of us in the group were couples. The man was to do the self-help program, and the woman was to be a social worker, of which I had no training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. It sounds like a 1970s program. But you had no hesitation. You accepted the invitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in those days, I think they had already begun in-country training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did, you staged in Washington?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.167716511169296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in those days, I think they had already begun in-country training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did, you staged in Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Three days in Washington, shots, glasses, off we were to Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now let's just talk briefly about Washington. They're all married couples in the group. How many total?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.741907234632551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did, you staged in Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Three days in Washington, shots, glasses, off we were to Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now let's just talk briefly about Washington. They're all married couples in the group. How many total?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must have been maybe 20 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now it's you and your husband. Now you're in the midst of a bunch of other."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.379896927369501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Three days in Washington, shots, glasses, off we were to Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now let's just talk briefly about Washington. They're all married couples in the group. How many total?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must have been maybe 20 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now it's you and your husband. Now you're in the midst of a bunch of other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were all very excited, and we've really quickly became friends with other couples, especially once we were in country we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is it comfortable setting? It wasn't like, Oh, you know, they all look different than me or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.088774363743889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must have been maybe 20 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now it's you and your husband. Now you're in the midst of a bunch of other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were all very excited, and we've really quickly became friends with other couples, especially once we were in country we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is it comfortable setting? It wasn't like, Oh, you know, they all look different than me or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You flew down to Santiago. You recall your initial impression?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.65419373749321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were all very excited, and we've really quickly became friends with other couples, especially once we were in country we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is it comfortable setting? It wasn't like, Oh, you know, they all look different than me or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You flew down to Santiago. You recall your initial impression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. The first night we arrived, some current volunteers took us out to dinner. I don't know how we got to the restaurant, but um, it was in Providencia, the fancy part of Santiago. And we thought, what in the world are we doing here if they can have this fancy part of Santiago? And they took us to a restaurant and they sort of suggested what we ordered. And I remember ordering congrio, which was very good. You know, growing up in the Midwest, I hadn't eaten a whole lot of fish, but it was one of those sort of in-house jokes about after they were done, we were done eating it and saying how great it was, they told us it was eel. So oh, OK. But you know, we thought, you know, this is ridiculous. I mean, if this life is this easy, you know, why am I here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you staying at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.171326374992455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You flew down to Santiago. You recall your initial impression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. The first night we arrived, some current volunteers took us out to dinner. I don't know how we got to the restaurant, but um, it was in Providencia, the fancy part of Santiago. And we thought, what in the world are we doing here if they can have this fancy part of Santiago? And they took us to a restaurant and they sort of suggested what we ordered. And I remember ordering congrio, which was very good. You know, growing up in the Midwest, I hadn't eaten a whole lot of fish, but it was one of those sort of in-house jokes about after they were done, we were done eating it and saying how great it was, they told us it was eel. So oh, OK. But you know, we thought, you know, this is ridiculous. I mean, if this life is this easy, you know, why am I here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you staying at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they put us up very shortly, I don't know if that first night. Our training area was at the university extension sort of ag center, which was out of town from Santiago but had a dormitory. And that's where our intensive language training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had been in Chile for a while, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7459181944360616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. The first night we arrived, some current volunteers took us out to dinner. I don't know how we got to the restaurant, but um, it was in Providencia, the fancy part of Santiago. And we thought, what in the world are we doing here if they can have this fancy part of Santiago? And they took us to a restaurant and they sort of suggested what we ordered. And I remember ordering congrio, which was very good. You know, growing up in the Midwest, I hadn't eaten a whole lot of fish, but it was one of those sort of in-house jokes about after they were done, we were done eating it and saying how great it was, they told us it was eel. So oh, OK. But you know, we thought, you know, this is ridiculous. I mean, if this life is this easy, you know, why am I here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you staying at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they put us up very shortly, I don't know if that first night. Our training area was at the university extension sort of ag center, which was out of town from Santiago but had a dormitory. And that's where our intensive language training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had been in Chile for a while, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Since the beginning, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.384353549373402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they put us up very shortly, I don't know if that first night. Our training area was at the university extension sort of ag center, which was out of town from Santiago but had a dormitory. And that's where our intensive language training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had been in Chile for a while, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Since the beginning, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably had three hundred volunteers or something there at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been greeted by the Peace Corps staff when you arrived."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0937261659704465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Since the beginning, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably had three hundred volunteers or something there at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been greeted by the Peace Corps staff when you arrived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're now out at this extension and training begins."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.881917962189385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably had three hundred volunteers or something there at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been greeted by the Peace Corps staff when you arrived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're now out at this extension and training begins."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training usually has several components. I would assume the major component was language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.757686624654871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're now out at this extension and training begins."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training usually has several components. I would assume the major component was language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe how?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.397429582949857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training usually has several components. I would assume the major component was language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe how?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was interesting in that it was, I believe, the first of its immersion type. There was a Princeton professor, I don't remember his name, who had decided that the best way to learn language is not to translate. So what they had done is he was there for a while, didn't stay for six weeks, but was to pick people who had had some, I mean, they had worked in the poblaciones where the previous volunteers had, but they knew no English. So we were basically, after breakfast and until dinnertime, not allowed to speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From day one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.108255092166508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe how?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was interesting in that it was, I believe, the first of its immersion type. There was a Princeton professor, I don't remember his name, who had decided that the best way to learn language is not to translate. So what they had done is he was there for a while, didn't stay for six weeks, but was to pick people who had had some, I mean, they had worked in the poblaciones where the previous volunteers had, but they knew no English. So we were basically, after breakfast and until dinnertime, not allowed to speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From day one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From day one. And it was pretty effective. It really was quite effective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not allowed to. Were there people monitoring whether you sneak off and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.786950102407231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was interesting in that it was, I believe, the first of its immersion type. There was a Princeton professor, I don't remember his name, who had decided that the best way to learn language is not to translate. So what they had done is he was there for a while, didn't stay for six weeks, but was to pick people who had had some, I mean, they had worked in the poblaciones where the previous volunteers had, but they knew no English. So we were basically, after breakfast and until dinnertime, not allowed to speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From day one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From day one. And it was pretty effective. It really was quite effective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not allowed to. Were there people monitoring whether you sneak off and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they couldn't prevent you, you know, but yeah, I mean, it was the intent, and we tried to stick by it, but I mean, and it was very, it was like baby talk. I mean, for the first couple of weeks, we were just pointing to things and repeating words. And I mean, it made no sense to us at all. And those of us who, you know, may not be English majors but wanted some structure of grammar and some structure of something were just pulling our hairs out with conjugating verbs. And, you know, say, you know, please tell me how this works. Don't just tell me to repeat it, but in effect, you know, my grammar's not great, but I don't translate. Once I shift gears, I don't translate. And that was precisely the point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with the instructors, I mean, if you would point and the instructor might say, agua."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.541055669341368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From day one. And it was pretty effective. It really was quite effective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not allowed to. Were there people monitoring whether you sneak off and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they couldn't prevent you, you know, but yeah, I mean, it was the intent, and we tried to stick by it, but I mean, and it was very, it was like baby talk. I mean, for the first couple of weeks, we were just pointing to things and repeating words. And I mean, it made no sense to us at all. And those of us who, you know, may not be English majors but wanted some structure of grammar and some structure of something were just pulling our hairs out with conjugating verbs. And, you know, say, you know, please tell me how this works. Don't just tell me to repeat it, but in effect, you know, my grammar's not great, but I don't translate. Once I shift gears, I don't translate. And that was precisely the point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with the instructors, I mean, if you would point and the instructor might say, agua."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And then I'd say agua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd have to figure out how to get it into a sentence, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.37895074371263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they couldn't prevent you, you know, but yeah, I mean, it was the intent, and we tried to stick by it, but I mean, and it was very, it was like baby talk. I mean, for the first couple of weeks, we were just pointing to things and repeating words. And I mean, it made no sense to us at all. And those of us who, you know, may not be English majors but wanted some structure of grammar and some structure of something were just pulling our hairs out with conjugating verbs. And, you know, say, you know, please tell me how this works. Don't just tell me to repeat it, but in effect, you know, my grammar's not great, but I don't translate. Once I shift gears, I don't translate. And that was precisely the point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with the instructors, I mean, if you would point and the instructor might say, agua."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And then I'd say agua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd have to figure out how to get it into a sentence, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's incredible. So that was the core of the training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 9.309945270791811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And then I'd say agua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd have to figure out how to get it into a sentence, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's incredible. So that was the core of the training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For how many weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5666058564353444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's incredible. So that was the core of the training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For how many weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it got sort of divided up because I think it was supposed to be for 12 weeks or something. I don't remember exactly, but um, a Peter from New York. The fellows would play soccer out in front of the dorm at break time or whenever they did that. And El Mercurio, which no, it wasn't El Mercurio. The newspapers in Santiago. I mean, there's the middle of the road and then there's maybe a little to the right and then there's several to the left. And I think it was one of the ones to the left, not the right one, came out and photographed the guys playing soccer, which you wouldn't think was a big deal, right? But Peter was wearing fatigues and title of the newspaper the next day, CIA Training at Agricultural Dorm. We were kicked out instantaneously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8517842849281605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For how many weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it got sort of divided up because I think it was supposed to be for 12 weeks or something. I don't remember exactly, but um, a Peter from New York. The fellows would play soccer out in front of the dorm at break time or whenever they did that. And El Mercurio, which no, it wasn't El Mercurio. The newspapers in Santiago. I mean, there's the middle of the road and then there's maybe a little to the right and then there's several to the left. And I think it was one of the ones to the left, not the right one, came out and photographed the guys playing soccer, which you wouldn't think was a big deal, right? But Peter was wearing fatigues and title of the newspaper the next day, CIA Training at Agricultural Dorm. We were kicked out instantaneously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From that facility because the university couldn't, you know, deal with bad press. And so we were put into a monastery or convent kind of building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who explained to you what was going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.409610228306371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From that facility because the university couldn't, you know, deal with bad press. And so we were put into a monastery or convent kind of building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who explained to you what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by then we, the teachers, I mean, there was one. Once the Princeton professor left, there was a guy that was sort of in charge of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I mean, he, you know, the photograph was fairly obvious and the CIA's in the title, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the Peace Corps office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.67734469811819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by then we, the teachers, I mean, there was one. Once the Princeton professor left, there was a guy that was sort of in charge of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I mean, he, you know, the photograph was fairly obvious and the CIA's in the title, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, they were connected with the Peace Corps office, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they come out and try to explain?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9748274423535443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I mean, he, you know, the photograph was fairly obvious and the CIA's in the title, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, they were connected with the Peace Corps office, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they come out and try to explain?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. But you know, we were, I mean, except for Peter, who was very politically savvy. Some of us were pretty politically naive as to the parties in Chile at that point. But we quickly learned and there wasn't any question of us staying. It was a done deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the Chilean government come to your defense or say anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3053638248372716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, they were connected with the Peace Corps office, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they come out and try to explain?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. But you know, we were, I mean, except for Peter, who was very politically savvy. Some of us were pretty politically naive as to the parties in Chile at that point. But we quickly learned and there wasn't any question of us staying. It was a done deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the Chilean government come to your defense or say anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. But I mean, they might have been behind the scenes with Peace Corps staff folks but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were aware of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.672626472041413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. But you know, we were, I mean, except for Peter, who was very politically savvy. Some of us were pretty politically naive as to the parties in Chile at that point. But we quickly learned and there wasn't any question of us staying. It was a done deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from the Chilean government come to your defense or say anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. But I mean, they might have been behind the scenes with Peace Corps staff folks but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were aware of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were there on a program that the Chilean government had agreed to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.080696080046014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of. But I mean, they might have been behind the scenes with Peace Corps staff folks but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were aware of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were there on a program that the Chilean government had agreed to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left the university extension and went to a monastery? Same language training continues?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.534106755606682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were there on a program that the Chilean government had agreed to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left the university extension and went to a monastery? Same language training continues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More or less. It sort of began to then go into training as to your, what you were actually going to be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical skills."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.037896395118535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left the university extension and went to a monastery? Same language training continues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More or less. It sort of began to then go into training as to your, what you were actually going to be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More the technical stuff. I don't somehow remember much more language after once we moved. But, you know, so it wasn't, that part I didn't find very effective. I can't even remember much what they tried to do with social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, uh, when you shifted over to the monastery, you had already been in language training for what, four or five weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.597662661242817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More or less. It sort of began to then go into training as to your, what you were actually going to be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More the technical stuff. I don't somehow remember much more language after once we moved. But, you know, so it wasn't, that part I didn't find very effective. I can't even remember much what they tried to do with social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, uh, when you shifted over to the monastery, you had already been in language training for what, four or five weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have opportunities to get out of the monastery?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.997402956936462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More the technical stuff. I don't somehow remember much more language after once we moved. But, you know, so it wasn't, that part I didn't find very effective. I can't even remember much what they tried to do with social workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, uh, when you shifted over to the monastery, you had already been in language training for what, four or five weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have opportunities to get out of the monastery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, we were on Saturdays or something, we some we were able to take public transportation into Santiago, and that was chocolate day and movie day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall trying to use your Spanish now with ordinary folks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.330447729929402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have opportunities to get out of the monastery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, we were on Saturdays or something, we some we were able to take public transportation into Santiago, and that was chocolate day and movie day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall trying to use your Spanish now with ordinary folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we had to negotiate our own way around Santiago. We were on our own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.111663864110373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we had to negotiate our own way around Santiago. We were on our own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was enough to get chocolate. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't very good chocolate, but it was chocolate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people seem to understand you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.568515404567081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was enough to get chocolate. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't very good chocolate, but it was chocolate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people seem to understand you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I can remember, because there wasn't, I mean, like in some of my later travels, there weren't people who spoke English. But you know, you can communicate a lot without language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now in the training then did the men split off from the women and do buildings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8539060050745344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't very good chocolate, but it was chocolate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people seem to understand you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I can remember, because there wasn't, I mean, like in some of my later travels, there weren't people who spoke English. But you know, you can communicate a lot without language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now in the training then did the men split off from the women and do buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think at that point we did. And I think they actually went to some construction sites where they were doing self-help housing because frankly, the program there in Chile, I mean, the Ministry of Housing was much more sophisticated than we are in the United States now as far as affordable housing. They had numerous programs. I mean, they did not need us as far as their housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.171006672305038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I can remember, because there wasn't, I mean, like in some of my later travels, there weren't people who spoke English. But you know, you can communicate a lot without language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now in the training then did the men split off from the women and do buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think at that point we did. And I think they actually went to some construction sites where they were doing self-help housing because frankly, the program there in Chile, I mean, the Ministry of Housing was much more sophisticated than we are in the United States now as far as affordable housing. They had numerous programs. I mean, they did not need us as far as their housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a deal. You know, we'll take your fertilizer if you take the Peace Corps volunteers or, you know, some. I don't know what the tradeoff was, but later that became a factor also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was AID involved in any way in the housing program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.412229635894487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think at that point we did. And I think they actually went to some construction sites where they were doing self-help housing because frankly, the program there in Chile, I mean, the Ministry of Housing was much more sophisticated than we are in the United States now as far as affordable housing. They had numerous programs. I mean, they did not need us as far as their housing program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a deal. You know, we'll take your fertilizer if you take the Peace Corps volunteers or, you know, some. I don't know what the tradeoff was, but later that became a factor also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was AID involved in any way in the housing program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of at that point. I think many years earlier, they might have been involved because there was a strong cooperative element to AID at one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the whole training period, was there any process of selection or was it assumed that you were in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.978061278882082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know of at that point. I think many years earlier, they might have been involved because there was a strong cooperative element to AID at one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the whole training period, was there any process of selection or was it assumed that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember ever feeling any pressure of being selected out. I do remember one couple left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. It wasn't selection as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. It's a relatively small group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.308956976535647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember ever feeling any pressure of being selected out. I do remember one couple left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. It wasn't selection as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. It's a relatively small group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go, were you interviewed by psychologists? Was there any psych testing at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.085132069797095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go, were you interviewed by psychologists? Was there any psych testing at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peer ratings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the training period other than the language, a third component is often called area studies, where you learn something of the history and culture of the area. Was that done?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.539035633107884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peer ratings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the training period other than the language, a third component is often called area studies, where you learn something of the history and culture of the area. Was that done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. I don't remember exactly how it was done, but it was sort of just part of the part of the discussions or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Most of the instruction was being done by Americans or Chileans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.043372925675426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the training period other than the language, a third component is often called area studies, where you learn something of the history and culture of the area. Was that done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. I don't remember exactly how it was done, but it was sort of just part of the part of the discussions or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Most of the instruction was being done by Americans or Chileans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chileans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.603747695194918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. I don't remember exactly how it was done, but it was sort of just part of the part of the discussions or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Most of the instruction was being done by Americans or Chileans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chileans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there might have been two or three Americans, but most of it was by Chileans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point during training did someone from either the Chilean government or the Peace Corps come out and say, well, the project you're going to work on is this, you know, some definition of what it was you would expect to be expected to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.449071228635701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there might have been two or three Americans, but most of it was by Chileans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point during training did someone from either the Chilean government or the Peace Corps come out and say, well, the project you're going to work on is this, you know, some definition of what it was you would expect to be expected to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well at some point we were told what community we were going to, but we were all in the same program. So I don't think until we got to our sites, did we know that, you know, here's the camp of these people are being relocated to these houses and these are the houses you're going to be building because CORVI has an office in Ovalle, that's where you're going to be based out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. CORVI?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CORVI was the subsection of the Ministry of Housing that we worked with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So training comes to an end. Did you have any choice of the assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.94341247626189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well at some point we were told what community we were going to, but we were all in the same program. So I don't think until we got to our sites, did we know that, you know, here's the camp of these people are being relocated to these houses and these are the houses you're going to be building because CORVI has an office in Ovalle, that's where you're going to be based out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. CORVI?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CORVI was the subsection of the Ministry of Housing that we worked with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So training comes to an end. Did you have any choice of the assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were simply told you were going and were, well, you're always bound to be assigned someplace where there are other Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.492680529179878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CORVI was the subsection of the Ministry of Housing that we worked with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So training comes to an end. Did you have any choice of the assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were simply told you were going and were, well, you're always bound to be assigned someplace where there are other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were the only volunteers in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, with so many in the country, where were the others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.102978365755419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were simply told you were going and were, well, you're always bound to be assigned someplace where there are other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were the only volunteers in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, with so many in the country, where were the others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were in the south doing agricultural programs. We were in the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you and your husband then get assigned to what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.781087073061577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were the only volunteers in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, with so many in the country, where were the others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were in the south doing agricultural programs. We were in the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you and your husband then get assigned to what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ovalle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you the only Peace Corps in the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.53454119229064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were in the south doing agricultural programs. We were in the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you and your husband then get assigned to what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ovalle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you the only Peace Corps in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large a community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.149490213656267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ovalle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you the only Peace Corps in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large a community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's, on market days it feels like maybe four thousand. On non-market days, maybe two thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's all right. Before we get to the job, let's talk about living situation. And describe how you got from training to Ovalle. Did you have a chance to go out there before you moved in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.246284214390453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's, on market days it feels like maybe four thousand. On non-market days, maybe two thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's all right. Before we get to the job, let's talk about living situation. And describe how you got from training to Ovalle. Did you have a chance to go out there before you moved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We got a bus ticket six hours north and I think the staff at CORVI there, there was three people at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Ovalle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Ovalle. I think one of them met us at the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least expected."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.829204682656059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We got a bus ticket six hours north and I think the staff at CORVI there, there was three people at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Ovalle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Ovalle. I think one of them met us at the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And we were taken to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have all your worldly possessions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.476894091840065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Ovalle. I think one of them met us at the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And we were taken to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have all your worldly possessions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had our suitcase that came from the United States and we were allowed and they did a group purchase in Santiago of, I think it was a mattress and estufa, which is a little stove. A mattress and a stove. Those are the two things I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you carry that on the bus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.085437879822294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And we were taken to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have all your worldly possessions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had our suitcase that came from the United States and we were allowed and they did a group purchase in Santiago of, I think it was a mattress and estufa, which is a little stove. A mattress and a stove. Those are the two things I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you carry that on the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That was shipped up by a truck the Peace Corps arranged that arrived weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Later. Ok, so now your first day, you're there, you're greeted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.650486533135882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had our suitcase that came from the United States and we were allowed and they did a group purchase in Santiago of, I think it was a mattress and estufa, which is a little stove. A mattress and a stove. Those are the two things I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you carry that on the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That was shipped up by a truck the Peace Corps arranged that arrived weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Later. Ok, so now your first day, you're there, you're greeted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we're taken to a pension, a house where several people have rooms that are just, you know, staying there. So we have our room and the meals are part of the package. So we were very pleasantly pleased with our accommodations and then basically we didn't stay there hardly I don't think more than a week, because CORVI had already built one community where the houses, we call them mediaguas because they come in two parts. It's like basically three by six meters with a pitched roof one direction, and then later they build the other three by six and the pitch goes the other way. So there was a mediagua, I don't know how it got built because it was self-help. And so who built it? I'm not sure, but maybe the instructors showing the people how to build. There was an empty mediagua available to us and we went to live in that community. And then we were going to build another community. Well, I mean, a couple of hundred houses is considered a community, a poblacione. So we very soon then had our own little house and began to add on to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that close to the town, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.27831837015098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That was shipped up by a truck the Peace Corps arranged that arrived weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Later. Ok, so now your first day, you're there, you're greeted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we're taken to a pension, a house where several people have rooms that are just, you know, staying there. So we have our room and the meals are part of the package. So we were very pleasantly pleased with our accommodations and then basically we didn't stay there hardly I don't think more than a week, because CORVI had already built one community where the houses, we call them mediaguas because they come in two parts. It's like basically three by six meters with a pitched roof one direction, and then later they build the other three by six and the pitch goes the other way. So there was a mediagua, I don't know how it got built because it was self-help. And so who built it? I'm not sure, but maybe the instructors showing the people how to build. There was an empty mediagua available to us and we went to live in that community. And then we were going to build another community. Well, I mean, a couple of hundred houses is considered a community, a poblacione. So we very soon then had our own little house and began to add on to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that close to the town, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we could walk to town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it's just this is about a week after you've arrived"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.975909300167755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we're taken to a pension, a house where several people have rooms that are just, you know, staying there. So we have our room and the meals are part of the package. So we were very pleasantly pleased with our accommodations and then basically we didn't stay there hardly I don't think more than a week, because CORVI had already built one community where the houses, we call them mediaguas because they come in two parts. It's like basically three by six meters with a pitched roof one direction, and then later they build the other three by six and the pitch goes the other way. So there was a mediagua, I don't know how it got built because it was self-help. And so who built it? I'm not sure, but maybe the instructors showing the people how to build. There was an empty mediagua available to us and we went to live in that community. And then we were going to build another community. Well, I mean, a couple of hundred houses is considered a community, a poblacione. So we very soon then had our own little house and began to add on to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that close to the town, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we could walk to town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it's just this is about a week after you've arrived"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About so, I think, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you gone to work yet or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.908530000207104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About so, I think, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you gone to work yet or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband, Paul, yes, had already, you know, because the men basically built the houses on, if I recall, Wednesday nights and Saturdays. So he went with Louis to the new home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, his counterpart and, you know, just started, you know, watching them build panels and pitched in however he could. But the house designs and everything were already predetermined. The materials already arrived. The system was in place. He was just an extra hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask a naive question. Why was a Peace Corps architect needed in that situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.453922222452338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband, Paul, yes, had already, you know, because the men basically built the houses on, if I recall, Wednesday nights and Saturdays. So he went with Louis to the new home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, his counterpart and, you know, just started, you know, watching them build panels and pitched in however he could. But the house designs and everything were already predetermined. The materials already arrived. The system was in place. He was just an extra hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask a naive question. Why was a Peace Corps architect needed in that situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so I assume at some point that he came to realize that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.059913580502598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, his counterpart and, you know, just started, you know, watching them build panels and pitched in however he could. But the house designs and everything were already predetermined. The materials already arrived. The system was in place. He was just an extra hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask a naive question. Why was a Peace Corps architect needed in that situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so I assume at some point that he came to realize that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, we were still enjoying the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's, yeah. So you've moved into the community or what will become the community as it's built. Do you remember your first weeks, how it went with the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.622126200558442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so I assume at some point that he came to realize that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, we were still enjoying the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's, yeah. So you've moved into the community or what will become the community as it's built. Do you remember your first weeks, how it went with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was funny because I remember one of the very first nights we were there, we were invited to a wedding in another one of these small homes. You know, we were obviously, I mean, it was sort of like, I don't even know you and I'm being invited to your daughter's wedding? Well, the reception there after, I distinctly remember the young woman and a very handsome young man. And you know, it was about the size of this dining room and there were chairs all around the outside, around the room. And I think there was some music and some maybe dancing or two couples at a time in the middle. And olives were served and you spit the pit out on the floor, which I was not used to, and wine was served and you passed the glass on to the next person, which I was not used to. But, you know, we were sort of considered honored guests, which I felt terrible about because here was the couple and they were the honored guests. We weren't. We were just gringos, you know. Why are we here? So, you know, we very quickly became, people wanted to pull us to there to show how they knew these new people. And the kids were my salvation because, you know, Senora Carlota, Senora Carlota, you know. Whenever I heard my name yelled, you know, I just ran and played with kids and, you know, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So have there been Peace Corps in the village at all, any time? So you were the first? Ok, let's get, uh. How about your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.968623046033527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, see, I mean, really, the program was very sophisticated. I mean it, it created a community by building and the momentum of this process. So there was a immediately a junta de vecinos, a neighborhood association. It had a president and it had officers and there was a centro de madres, which was the mothers club. So I was assigned to the mothers club in the community where we were living, not the one that Paul was building with the other folks. And I mean, I can never remember, how embarrassing. I go to the meeting of the centro de madres, and they give me the list of the names of the people because I'm now the person who calls roll or something. I mispronounced every single name on the list."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You may have been the entertainment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, that's what I was. And it became very apparent very quickly that I had nothing to teach them. But they could teach me how to make baskets, you know? So it was amusing, and they quickly realized that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the get-go, you were reporting to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if you call that work, when you go to a meeting maybe once a week, maybe twice, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no office as such where you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.520692273370585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, that's what I was. And it became very apparent very quickly that I had nothing to teach them. But they could teach me how to make baskets, you know? So it was amusing, and they quickly realized that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the get-go, you were reporting to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if you call that work, when you go to a meeting maybe once a week, maybe twice, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no office as such where you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was an office for CORVI for Paul. But basically, I was baggage. You know, to cook the meals and do the other things and, you know, become friends with the neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was by design of the Peace Corps and not by any need of the community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.134102525967317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know if you call that work, when you go to a meeting maybe once a week, maybe twice, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no office as such where you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was an office for CORVI for Paul. But basically, I was baggage. You know, to cook the meals and do the other things and, you know, become friends with the neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was by design of the Peace Corps and not by any need of the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask then, somehow the assumption seem to have emerged that as the wife, you would be expected to do the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.815669473297019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was an office for CORVI for Paul. But basically, I was baggage. You know, to cook the meals and do the other things and, you know, become friends with the neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was by design of the Peace Corps and not by any need of the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask then, somehow the assumption seem to have emerged that as the wife, you would be expected to do the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, that was very traditional. I mean, my biggest impact was that I wore jeans and I didn't have a baby. So what was this strange woman doing here, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't a problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.572966081441132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask then, somehow the assumption seem to have emerged that as the wife, you would be expected to do the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, that was very traditional. I mean, my biggest impact was that I wore jeans and I didn't have a baby. So what was this strange woman doing here, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was to my liberal feminism at that point, but I also felt that I was to respect the culture and learn more about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so then you were willing to set that aside because you were there on someone else's turf."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.414406757156813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, that was very traditional. I mean, my biggest impact was that I wore jeans and I didn't have a baby. So what was this strange woman doing here, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was to my liberal feminism at that point, but I also felt that I was to respect the culture and learn more about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so then you were willing to set that aside because you were there on someone else's turf."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go, oh, maybe you've moved into the community that Paul's helping to build."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.349340841285347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was to my liberal feminism at that point, but I also felt that I was to respect the culture and learn more about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so then you were willing to set that aside because you were there on someone else's turf."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go, oh, maybe you've moved into the community that Paul's helping to build."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we live in one that's partially done, and his is just down the road a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. During the first few months, did you have any visitors from Peace Corps who came out to check on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.16593426809483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go, oh, maybe you've moved into the community that Paul's helping to build."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we live in one that's partially done, and his is just down the road a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. During the first few months, did you have any visitors from Peace Corps who came out to check on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when, who came, the regional rep. It may have been in that first six months or something, but there was one phone in, you know, two or three hundred houses and it was at the president's house. So one day we did get the call. You know, the president sent his kid up to our house to say, there's a phone call for you from Santiago. So we go back. And he says, well, I'm going to come tomorrow to visit you, and I'm like, OK, fine, you know, we're here. We're not going anywhere. So I don't even remember really other than him coming sort of walking around and seeing things and, you know, asking us if we were OK. And we got our money regularly and that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone in the house of women that to whom you were accountable, if you showed up or didn't show up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.073260297883143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we live in one that's partially done, and his is just down the road a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. During the first few months, did you have any visitors from Peace Corps who came out to check on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when, who came, the regional rep. It may have been in that first six months or something, but there was one phone in, you know, two or three hundred houses and it was at the president's house. So one day we did get the call. You know, the president sent his kid up to our house to say, there's a phone call for you from Santiago. So we go back. And he says, well, I'm going to come tomorrow to visit you, and I'm like, OK, fine, you know, we're here. We're not going anywhere. So I don't even remember really other than him coming sort of walking around and seeing things and, you know, asking us if we were OK. And we got our money regularly and that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone in the house of women that to whom you were accountable, if you showed up or didn't show up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember ever being told that she's your counterpart or she's your boss or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there was no formal job that you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.08140033098127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when, who came, the regional rep. It may have been in that first six months or something, but there was one phone in, you know, two or three hundred houses and it was at the president's house. So one day we did get the call. You know, the president sent his kid up to our house to say, there's a phone call for you from Santiago. So we go back. And he says, well, I'm going to come tomorrow to visit you, and I'm like, OK, fine, you know, we're here. We're not going anywhere. So I don't even remember really other than him coming sort of walking around and seeing things and, you know, asking us if we were OK. And we got our money regularly and that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone in the house of women that to whom you were accountable, if you showed up or didn't show up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember ever being told that she's your counterpart or she's your boss or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there was no formal job that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very formal, I'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no, were you training anyone? Nor were you working?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.20155592331252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember ever being told that she's your counterpart or she's your boss or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there was no formal job that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very formal, I'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no, were you training anyone? Nor were you working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to become friends with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.446173248125023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very formal, I'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no, were you training anyone? Nor were you working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to become friends with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes. Very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well talk about that. At work or where you lived or combination?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.606859164583359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to become friends with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes. Very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well talk about that. At work or where you lived or combination?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where are you live, I mean, you can't help it when you're, you know, only two meters away from the next mediagua and the kids are out. And I mean, we were on this little plaza. Well, sand, you know, so you clean your sand and you build a fence and you plant plants and you ask stupid questions. You know, what's this abalone thing and how you have to pound it to cook it and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I quickly made friends with my immediate neighbors and there was only one store in the community that, you know, you'd go and you get your cooking. And the bread person goes by your house and yells, and you said, yes, I want two. And you know, so it's just those daily interactions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all of this is going on in Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.896510182870397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes. Very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well talk about that. At work or where you lived or combination?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where are you live, I mean, you can't help it when you're, you know, only two meters away from the next mediagua and the kids are out. And I mean, we were on this little plaza. Well, sand, you know, so you clean your sand and you build a fence and you plant plants and you ask stupid questions. You know, what's this abalone thing and how you have to pound it to cook it and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I quickly made friends with my immediate neighbors and there was only one store in the community that, you know, you'd go and you get your cooking. And the bread person goes by your house and yells, and you said, yes, I want two. And you know, so it's just those daily interactions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all of this is going on in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that day by day, you're getting more and more comfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.329455758744885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where are you live, I mean, you can't help it when you're, you know, only two meters away from the next mediagua and the kids are out. And I mean, we were on this little plaza. Well, sand, you know, so you clean your sand and you build a fence and you plant plants and you ask stupid questions. You know, what's this abalone thing and how you have to pound it to cook it and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I quickly made friends with my immediate neighbors and there was only one store in the community that, you know, you'd go and you get your cooking. And the bread person goes by your house and yells, and you said, yes, I want two. And you know, so it's just those daily interactions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all of this is going on in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that day by day, you're getting more and more comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I so couldn't understand, but I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you on the coast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.699395287494317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that day by day, you're getting more and more comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I so couldn't understand, but I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were basically 60 miles in. So we couldn't, you know, we did have. There was a fellow on the coast, you know, up the coast a little ways. But we couldn't see the Andes from where we were. We were inland but not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.22155031943813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I so couldn't understand, but I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were basically 60 miles in. So we couldn't, you know, we did have. There was a fellow on the coast, you know, up the coast a little ways. But we couldn't see the Andes from where we were. We were inland but not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know the geography of the country. How did people in the community make a living? Was it agriculture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.801722577153477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were basically 60 miles in. So we couldn't, you know, we did have. There was a fellow on the coast, you know, up the coast a little ways. But we couldn't see the Andes from where we were. We were inland but not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know the geography of the country. How did people in the community make a living? Was it agriculture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically agriculture, yes. And that was the hard part because I mean, to my eyes, market day was great fun. But it was in the middle of a beginning of a drought, so there wasn't any fresh milk available. You know, there were watermelons. But it was affecting the area considerably as far as the agriculture around it. For example, my immediate neighbor's husband worked in the copper mines, and so he was gone most of the time and would send money down. So there were, you know, many people who, you know, had a spouse elsewhere because of, there wasn't that much, there wasn't any industry or something in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you get out of the community? Let's take the first six months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.890802863503863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know the geography of the country. How did people in the community make a living? Was it agriculture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically agriculture, yes. And that was the hard part because I mean, to my eyes, market day was great fun. But it was in the middle of a beginning of a drought, so there wasn't any fresh milk available. You know, there were watermelons. But it was affecting the area considerably as far as the agriculture around it. For example, my immediate neighbor's husband worked in the copper mines, and so he was gone most of the time and would send money down. So there were, you know, many people who, you know, had a spouse elsewhere because of, there wasn't that much, there wasn't any industry or something in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you get out of the community? Let's take the first six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was slightly amazed how much vacation we got in. I don't remember that it was in the first six months, but I think the first year for Christmas or whatever, we took a month off. Let's see. That year, I think, did we go to Peru and Ecuador and back?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you travel with other couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.100892070559848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically agriculture, yes. And that was the hard part because I mean, to my eyes, market day was great fun. But it was in the middle of a beginning of a drought, so there wasn't any fresh milk available. You know, there were watermelons. But it was affecting the area considerably as far as the agriculture around it. For example, my immediate neighbor's husband worked in the copper mines, and so he was gone most of the time and would send money down. So there were, you know, many people who, you know, had a spouse elsewhere because of, there wasn't that much, there wasn't any industry or something in that community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you get out of the community? Let's take the first six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was slightly amazed how much vacation we got in. I don't remember that it was in the first six months, but I think the first year for Christmas or whatever, we took a month off. Let's see. That year, I think, did we go to Peru and Ecuador and back?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you travel with other couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.112102300622054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was slightly amazed how much vacation we got in. I don't remember that it was in the first six months, but I think the first year for Christmas or whatever, we took a month off. Let's see. That year, I think, did we go to Peru and Ecuador and back?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you travel with other couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think the next Christmas, we went to Brazil, Argentina, and back and around. So I remember we had two very long trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus leave pay I gather."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.124558111802282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think the next Christmas, we went to Brazil, Argentina, and back and around. So I remember we had two very long trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus leave pay I gather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we actually got leave pay, but we got 125 dollars a month and that was more than adequate. I mean, it was ten times what our neighbors got and we could save money and eat steak and anything we wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's take the first six eight months. At any point did Peace Corps pull you in to Santiago for a conference to meet with the others in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.249509013113647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then I think the next Christmas, we went to Brazil, Argentina, and back and around. So I remember we had two very long trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus leave pay I gather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we actually got leave pay, but we got 125 dollars a month and that was more than adequate. I mean, it was ten times what our neighbors got and we could save money and eat steak and anything we wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's take the first six eight months. At any point did Peace Corps pull you in to Santiago for a conference to meet with the others in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did have a mid-term gathering of all the couples at a very fancy resort. And I think most of us by that time realized that we weren't really needed, but we sort of liked Santiago and we liked, you know, being in Chile and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one was willing to blow the whistle."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.499454459015164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we actually got leave pay, but we got 125 dollars a month and that was more than adequate. I mean, it was ten times what our neighbors got and we could save money and eat steak and anything we wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's take the first six eight months. At any point did Peace Corps pull you in to Santiago for a conference to meet with the others in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did have a mid-term gathering of all the couples at a very fancy resort. And I think most of us by that time realized that we weren't really needed, but we sort of liked Santiago and we liked, you know, being in Chile and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one was willing to blow the whistle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I don't think so. I mean, we made it maybe known, but they weren't going to take any action on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that also."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.88828273223907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did have a mid-term gathering of all the couples at a very fancy resort. And I think most of us by that time realized that we weren't really needed, but we sort of liked Santiago and we liked, you know, being in Chile and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one was willing to blow the whistle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I don't think so. I mean, we made it maybe known, but they weren't going to take any action on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, the draft was still an issue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.096645348443296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, the draft was still an issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The politics was heating up at this point too. The election, the Chilean election was coming. And that, I think, was maybe, well, I don't know how the U.S. Government does its diplomacy. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. But Allende was campaigning actually in our poblacione, which was a really incredible, you know, experience because my quote illiterate neighbors were explaining, you know, the politics of the left to me, which I, you know, wouldn't have understood in college. And Pablo Neruda came to our poblacione, read his poetry and my neighbors again explained, you know, he's referring to the incident in Iquitos. Or, you know, whatever else, like amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Poblacione is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poblacione is the name of a community or it's a community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I get it, OK. Had Peace Corps, given the fact that there was a certain level of political instability or uncertainty, was there any kind of emergency procedure or evacuation procedure that had been discussed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.329605942714773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The politics was heating up at this point too. The election, the Chilean election was coming. And that, I think, was maybe, well, I don't know how the U.S. Government does its diplomacy. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. But Allende was campaigning actually in our poblacione, which was a really incredible, you know, experience because my quote illiterate neighbors were explaining, you know, the politics of the left to me, which I, you know, wouldn't have understood in college. And Pablo Neruda came to our poblacione, read his poetry and my neighbors again explained, you know, he's referring to the incident in Iquitos. Or, you know, whatever else, like amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Poblacione is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poblacione is the name of a community or it's a community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I get it, OK. Had Peace Corps, given the fact that there was a certain level of political instability or uncertainty, was there any kind of emergency procedure or evacuation procedure that had been discussed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But in the long run, we were taken out because they elected the wrong guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but we speculate. You're still in your first year. You've done a lot of travel. How did you deal with the fact that, in a sense, there was no specific job there for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.588451047460858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poblacione is the name of a community or it's a community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I get it, OK. Had Peace Corps, given the fact that there was a certain level of political instability or uncertainty, was there any kind of emergency procedure or evacuation procedure that had been discussed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But in the long run, we were taken out because they elected the wrong guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but we speculate. You're still in your first year. You've done a lot of travel. How did you deal with the fact that, in a sense, there was no specific job there for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we tried to be creative. And I realized I had to work behind the scenes. And you know, it was a very macho going on. So at some point we were asked to build some models of the various programs that they have, for what purpose, where they were displayed, I don't remember. But it basically, you know, I could build models and, you know, get it to scale, even though I was converting metric to inches like crazy and they probably thought, you know, OK, what's the scale on this, three meters to one inch? But other than that little detail. So and you know, we were trying to figure out a panel system because the inside of our homes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you were living in one of these houses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.781139982799528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were living. It was pure studs. It just, you know, there was no inner wall. And, you know, here we're up near the desert and the wood comes from the south and they ship it before it's really dried. And so very shortly we could stick our hands through the siding because it would dry. And so we thought, oh well, you know, we really should do something about this being, you know, it didn't bother anybody else but. So they had very elaborate jigs to build panels. I mean, they're a fairly sophisticated system for hands-on. So we built a jig and using basically plaster of Paris and some fibers of some kind that we got, we thought we'll build this, you know, equivalent plaster panel and then you'll have this sandwich. Well, it was so heavy and they cracked. It was just a miserable experiment. But you know, you learn that appropriate technology isn't quite what you think it is. But I do recall that we managed, the Peace Corps did send us, I think, Time magazine and the New York book section or something. So the inside of our place was plastered with the New York Times. So if anybody ever does archeology, they'll know that somebody with the New York Times was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I gather it, was the weather, you didn't have extremes of weather?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was dry, pleasant. Never really too hot, never really too cool. Very little rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you at least tried to modify. And the idea being that if you came up with something, it might be of use."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a feeling of frustration or you just thought you were here like to make the best of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.09015553644392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was dry, pleasant. Never really too hot, never really too cool. Very little rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you at least tried to modify. And the idea being that if you came up with something, it might be of use."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a feeling of frustration or you just thought you were here like to make the best of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we were frustrated because we had somehow realized that, you know, this daily living thing is really quite comfortable. I mean, yeah, you know, we weren't. It wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well shame on you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.322395040493245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a feeling of frustration or you just thought you were here like to make the best of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we were frustrated because we had somehow realized that, you know, this daily living thing is really quite comfortable. I mean, yeah, you know, we weren't. It wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well shame on you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were goal-oriented people, but we shifted fairly quickly that, you know, manana is OK. And you know, you don't expect to do eight hours of intense work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after the first year, you've had at least one vacation, you're going into your second year, you can see the end of your tour. Sometimes people will say, well, before I leave this community or my Peace Corps tour, I'd at least like to accomplish this. Do you recall? Don't let me put your words in your mouth though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.8375172084945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chilean doctors who are required to spend a year service or two in a rural area. So they spoke English and so we would get together with them maybe once a month. You know, they had a lovely home. They invite us to dinner. We talked English. He'd been to Kentucky and the coal mines and was concerned about black lung disease. So through them, we were able to, I mean, there was the central plaza of this poblacione and then there were these little plazas. So there was nothing in the central plaza. And what was apparent to us was that the kids needed a school. Well, we didn't have the connections with the Department of Education, but we did have Department of Health through this doctor friend. So thanks to his connections and so on, so forth, we got enough money to build sort of a two room facility that was going to be a health center. Not a school, but in reality, it became a school. So that was the extra project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the funding come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From their Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So it was through them that you would define the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the community agreed that they would work on Sundays in addition to their Saturday task. Because the poblacione we lived in, I mean, they had their half house. And they weren't quite ready yet for the second or third phase, which would have given them more house and facilities. But so the men were willing to work on Sundays in addition to help build this school. So that basically almost, I think, got completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sometimes people have or develop a friendship with someone who becomes sort of a mentor into the culture. Because, you know, living in another culture, we're curious about celebrations births and deaths and marriages and holidays and everything. Did you have any opportunity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.721904195658687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, we thought we could help, but you know, they were more amused by us than anything that we could help. I mean, I remember one woman who I met, you know, at the market and she said, you're putting the stuff in the wrong order, you know? So she told me to put the heavy stuff at the bottom of the bag. You know, you go around the market this way, you don't go around the market that way. So at some point they didn't expect me to be an expert on anything. You know, Paul was helping with the houses, and that was all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about politics? I mean, within the community, there must have been,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very, no, there wasn't. It was pretty far left. I mean, it was. And I mean, I think that's why, you know, both Neruda and Allende came to our poblacione. I mean, they were 99.9 percent in support of Allende."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to meet Neruda?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.468782439620763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, we thought we could help, but you know, they were more amused by us than anything that we could help. I mean, I remember one woman who I met, you know, at the market and she said, you're putting the stuff in the wrong order, you know? So she told me to put the heavy stuff at the bottom of the bag. You know, you go around the market this way, you don't go around the market that way. So at some point they didn't expect me to be an expert on anything. You know, Paul was helping with the houses, and that was all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about politics? I mean, within the community, there must have been,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very, no, there wasn't. It was pretty far left. I mean, it was. And I mean, I think that's why, you know, both Neruda and Allende came to our poblacione. I mean, they were 99.9 percent in support of Allende."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to meet Neruda?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't actually shake his hand, but I listen to him because I was taller than most and I could, you know, have a photograph. You know, there were big posters all around town during the election, and I have one of those and it was great fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how did that impact you? I mean, you and Paul must have been identified as Americans from the United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.076424932911959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very, no, there wasn't. It was pretty far left. I mean, it was. And I mean, I think that's why, you know, both Neruda and Allende came to our poblacione. I mean, they were 99.9 percent in support of Allende."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to meet Neruda?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't actually shake his hand, but I listen to him because I was taller than most and I could, you know, have a photograph. You know, there were big posters all around town during the election, and I have one of those and it was great fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how did that impact you? I mean, you and Paul must have been identified as Americans from the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And at that point, we weren't evil. I mean, we were, I mean, it was quite amazing to me in, you know, this 10 year old and I remember it specifically, says, you're not the government. They clearly differentiated us as people from the U.S. government's policies. So, you know, that was fine, even though the government paid our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you personally, you didn't feel any tension or stress."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.751583258791065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't actually shake his hand, but I listen to him because I was taller than most and I could, you know, have a photograph. You know, there were big posters all around town during the election, and I have one of those and it was great fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how did that impact you? I mean, you and Paul must have been identified as Americans from the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And at that point, we weren't evil. I mean, we were, I mean, it was quite amazing to me in, you know, this 10 year old and I remember it specifically, says, you're not the government. They clearly differentiated us as people from the U.S. government's policies. So, you know, that was fine, even though the government paid our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you personally, you didn't feel any tension or stress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally speaking, were there any health issues or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.501759176434517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And at that point, we weren't evil. I mean, we were, I mean, it was quite amazing to me in, you know, this 10 year old and I remember it specifically, says, you're not the government. They clearly differentiated us as people from the U.S. government's policies. So, you know, that was fine, even though the government paid our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you personally, you didn't feel any tension or stress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally speaking, were there any health issues or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember I ate a lot of beets and having an outhouse, I didn't really notice anything. But then at some point I must have used an indoor facility and thought I had blood. And so of course, the Peace Corps wants you to come. So, you know, bus ticket to Santiago. Blood tests, all that good stuff. You've been eating too many beets, go back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2241768627050185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally speaking, were there any health issues or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember I ate a lot of beets and having an outhouse, I didn't really notice anything. But then at some point I must have used an indoor facility and thought I had blood. And so of course, the Peace Corps wants you to come. So, you know, bus ticket to Santiago. Blood tests, all that good stuff. You've been eating too many beets, go back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a six-hour bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you go down to Santiago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.026863180783353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember I ate a lot of beets and having an outhouse, I didn't really notice anything. But then at some point I must have used an indoor facility and thought I had blood. And so of course, the Peace Corps wants you to come. So, you know, bus ticket to Santiago. Blood tests, all that good stuff. You've been eating too many beets, go back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a six-hour bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you go down to Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe once every three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not really that much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.918736867537058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a six-hour bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how often did you go down to Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe once every three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not really that much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all of your shopping and everything within the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.909707630596731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe once every three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not really that much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all of your shopping and everything within the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visitors? Did people come to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.455230700663034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all of your shopping and everything within the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visitors? Did people come to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any of the other volunteers visiting us, but we did go visit both. There were two couples in La Serena, Coquimbo, which was about two hours to the coast and north. And I think we must have had Thanksgiving with them or, you know, some sort of holiday. And we did go to the beach, I remember getting sunburned on New Year's Day, with a single volunteer. What was he doing there? I don't know. He was doing fishing stuff. And I think we did go to visit one other couple that was further north and that was great fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was communication mostly by mail?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.061367445181149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visitors? Did people come to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any of the other volunteers visiting us, but we did go visit both. There were two couples in La Serena, Coquimbo, which was about two hours to the coast and north. And I think we must have had Thanksgiving with them or, you know, some sort of holiday. And we did go to the beach, I remember getting sunburned on New Year's Day, with a single volunteer. What was he doing there? I don't know. He was doing fishing stuff. And I think we did go to visit one other couple that was further north and that was great fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was communication mostly by mail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you could communicate. During all this time, were you communicating back to your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.734852716867943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any of the other volunteers visiting us, but we did go visit both. There were two couples in La Serena, Coquimbo, which was about two hours to the coast and north. And I think we must have had Thanksgiving with them or, you know, some sort of holiday. And we did go to the beach, I remember getting sunburned on New Year's Day, with a single volunteer. What was he doing there? I don't know. He was doing fishing stuff. And I think we did go to visit one other couple that was further north and that was great fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was communication mostly by mail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you could communicate. During all this time, were you communicating back to your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By tape recorder. I would send them cassettes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you reporting back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.372058574297714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you could communicate. During all this time, were you communicating back to your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By tape recorder. I would send them cassettes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you reporting back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would just, you know, I would just tell them, you know, what was in the newspaper, what I ate, you know, for breakfast that morning. Or you know what an avocado was because they didn't know what an avocado was. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it on these cassettes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.080065082553015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By tape recorder. I would send them cassettes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you reporting back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would just, you know, I would just tell them, you know, what was in the newspaper, what I ate, you know, for breakfast that morning. Or you know what an avocado was because they didn't know what an avocado was. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it on these cassettes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Mm hmm. I don't know where they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll find them. So let's, I gather this paradise did not last forever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.533405647281128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would just, you know, I would just tell them, you know, what was in the newspaper, what I ate, you know, for breakfast that morning. Or you know what an avocado was because they didn't know what an avocado was. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it on these cassettes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Mm hmm. I don't know where they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll find them. So let's, I gather this paradise did not last forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was three months short of our two years and Allende was elected. And I think within a week or two, it was fairly quickly thereafter, we were notified that we would be leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you have any inkling of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.03711738586792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Mm hmm. I don't know where they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll find them. So let's, I gather this paradise did not last forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was three months short of our two years and Allende was elected. And I think within a week or two, it was fairly quickly thereafter, we were notified that we would be leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you have any inkling of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it came as a complete surprise."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5967970954088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was three months short of our two years and Allende was elected. And I think within a week or two, it was fairly quickly thereafter, we were notified that we would be leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you have any inkling of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it came as a complete surprise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we hadn't been told before the election that anything would matter or anything would change. But what I remember is we sort of could have taken another assignment, but it would have been for such a short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go through the steps by which you found out. I mean, was it a call, a letter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.107552328232001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it came as a complete surprise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we hadn't been told before the election that anything would matter or anything would change. But what I remember is we sort of could have taken another assignment, but it would have been for such a short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go through the steps by which you found out. I mean, was it a call, a letter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been a call to the president's house. And again, we ran down to his house and they said, you know, pack up your stuff. We'll send a truck, you know, come to Santiago by this date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no sense of urgency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.675058142480001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we hadn't been told before the election that anything would matter or anything would change. But what I remember is we sort of could have taken another assignment, but it would have been for such a short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go through the steps by which you found out. I mean, was it a call, a letter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been a call to the president's house. And again, we ran down to his house and they said, you know, pack up your stuff. We'll send a truck, you know, come to Santiago by this date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no sense of urgency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had, I mean, we didn't have a very long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or danger, I should say."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.194509047200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been a call to the president's house. And again, we ran down to his house and they said, you know, pack up your stuff. We'll send a truck, you know, come to Santiago by this date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no sense of urgency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had, I mean, we didn't have a very long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or danger, I should say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh, there was no danger. I mean, our neighbors protected our camera. I mean, that would have been a year's salary for them, and they knew we had it, you know. Our neighbors would protect us, you know. That wasn't any issue about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it must. Well, it must have been a wrench because here, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.6605656080000015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had, I mean, we didn't have a very long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or danger, I should say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh, there was no danger. I mean, our neighbors protected our camera. I mean, that would have been a year's salary for them, and they knew we had it, you know. Our neighbors would protect us, you know. That wasn't any issue about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it must. Well, it must have been a wrench because here, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we were ticked because we really were excited. I mean, we were there long enough to see when Allende came to the poblacione, he promised two things: plastic shoes for the kids so that they could then go to school. Because without shoes and a sort of smock, they weren't allowed to go to school. And dried milk because the kids had been without milk. And I think it was within weeks those kids had those shoes and there were packets of dry milk in that poblacione. I mean, I may be exaggerating, but you know, I remember seeing what he had actually promised. And we were so excited, you know, and to see what the government would do and so on and so forth. But then we were told that we and the fertilizer, we're being pulled out. And I thought, OK, I'm good as shit, but other than that little detail, you know. So we were given the choice. We could have taken a short assignment in Ecuador or Peru, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were then called."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.067295120000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh, there was no danger. I mean, our neighbors protected our camera. I mean, that would have been a year's salary for them, and they knew we had it, you know. Our neighbors would protect us, you know. That wasn't any issue about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it must. Well, it must have been a wrench because here, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we were ticked because we really were excited. I mean, we were there long enough to see when Allende came to the poblacione, he promised two things: plastic shoes for the kids so that they could then go to school. Because without shoes and a sort of smock, they weren't allowed to go to school. And dried milk because the kids had been without milk. And I think it was within weeks those kids had those shoes and there were packets of dry milk in that poblacione. I mean, I may be exaggerating, but you know, I remember seeing what he had actually promised. And we were so excited, you know, and to see what the government would do and so on and so forth. But then we were told that we and the fertilizer, we're being pulled out. And I thought, OK, I'm good as shit, but other than that little detail, you know. So we were given the choice. We could have taken a short assignment in Ecuador or Peru, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were then called."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your original group get together as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5192168000000015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we were ticked because we really were excited. I mean, we were there long enough to see when Allende came to the poblacione, he promised two things: plastic shoes for the kids so that they could then go to school. Because without shoes and a sort of smock, they weren't allowed to go to school. And dried milk because the kids had been without milk. And I think it was within weeks those kids had those shoes and there were packets of dry milk in that poblacione. I mean, I may be exaggerating, but you know, I remember seeing what he had actually promised. And we were so excited, you know, and to see what the government would do and so on and so forth. But then we were told that we and the fertilizer, we're being pulled out. And I thought, OK, I'm good as shit, but other than that little detail, you know. So we were given the choice. We could have taken a short assignment in Ecuador or Peru, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were then called."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your original group get together as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.021352000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into Santiago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your original group get together as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was it for the service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.579280000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we got together as a group because I don't remember saying goodbye to those folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been a lot of confusion. I mean, you have several hundred volunteers and they weren't, I mean, were you put up at a hotel or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was it for the service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically we could each make a choice, and I'm sure they processed us in different groups or whatever. And we chose to cash out our plane tickets and take three months to get home. Bye bye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was it for the service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and under pleasant circumstances."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on it, any other comments about, you know, was it worth doing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and under pleasant circumstances."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.32, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely. I mean, there is no question in my mind that that experience changed my direction of my life. I mean, I was so naive. I didn't have a clue about distribution of resources around the world. And, you know, I thought I could go buy copper in the local hardware store. No clue about what, you know, copper mines and nationalization or anything of that sort. So, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and under pleasant circumstances."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go back. Actually, during that time, I knew that I wanted to go back to graduate school when I left. So I got via mail and thank goodness to my parents cooperation and having left stuff with them. I applied to graduate school and I got into UCLA. So we did end up back in Los Angeles and then having done my architectural thesis on housing after earthquakes, having experienced an earthquake. I then got an Organization of American States fellowship and came back to Chile as part of that, to study the housing that was built in the south after the earthquake. So I, you know, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the south now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00242:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under very pleasant circumstances, you know? So what if we didn't have electricity? No big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Have you gone back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go back. Actually, during that time, I knew that I wanted to go back to graduate school when I left. So I got via mail and thank goodness to my parents cooperation and having left stuff with them. I applied to graduate school and I got into UCLA. So we did end up back in Los Angeles and then having done my architectural thesis on housing after earthquakes, having experienced an earthquake. I then got an Organization of American States fellowship and came back to Chile as part of that, to study the housing that was built in the south after the earthquake. So I, you know, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the south now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your Spanish was still intact?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.10144638271211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [but] not very much, because he had a lot of people to talk to after that mission. I guess I don’t remember the beer part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of those when you read it it just kind of threw it in, but he did mention how well that you’d handled yourself. I know that you were on the CapCom during the time that he asked the question about the flowers blooming in Houston. Was this a code that you had worked with him regarding whether Ken [Thomas K.] Mattingly [II] had encountered the measles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don’t remember who talked to him about that. I hadn’t worked it out with him. It was somebody else. And I, frankly, don’t remember now who reported that to him. Did it say I did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 44.5571626474579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don’t remember who talked to him about that. I hadn’t worked it out with him. It was somebody else. And I, frankly, don’t remember now who reported that to him. Did it say I did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You forget some of those details. … It was one of the great moments of the space program or great events, bringing those guys back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a great team effort. Were you there most of those four or five days continually at the Johnson Space Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 47.28573627495322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You forget some of those details. … It was one of the great moments of the space program or great events, bringing those guys back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a great team effort. Were you there most of those four or five days continually at the Johnson Space Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got back from the launch at the Cape, why, yes. Like most other astronauts, I was around that whole time taking shift duties, and there were other things going on, too. So I mean, everybody was pitching in any way they could to try to help out. It was, like you say, a great team effort. Mission control just did an outstanding job. [Kranz and other flight directors showed great leadership.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a couple of the missions, Apollo 8 and Apollo 15, you were a backup crewmember. Could you tell us what it was like to train as the backup member for the Apollo crews?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 31, "return_to_go": 58.96317066750987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I learned a lot, yes. Apollo 13 taught a lot of things, too. That’s one great thing about the space program. … They … log the lessons learned. I remember after every mission I …[kept] notes. When I came in, they had one or two Gemini missions yet to go, and I would just listen with my mouth open and my eyes real wide when John Young would describe a Gemini mission and how the rendezvous worked and … things like that. So it was a great period of learning for those of us in my 1966 group, which was called the Original Nineteen. And that was because everybody talked of the Original Seven, and there were nineteen of us. So we’d thought it would be a funny thing to say, … [we] called [ourselves] the Original Nineteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were selected to be a backup for the command module pilot for Apollo 15."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so your role changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about how that did change your life and what duties you had being a backup member."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think when we’re through with assembly of Space Station, somebody should go through all of our [crewed] international missions and … [write down] lessons learned [in] dealing with the Russians.… From our original program in 1975 with them we have had changing circumstances in each [follow-on program] and probably some for the better and some for the worse. The country ought to learn something from this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it would be quite a study, wouldn’t it, from twenty-five years and counting of Russian interaction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. We’ve had some outstanding successes. Let me give you an example of a lesson learned…. Seemed to me that when it came to negotiations and things, they didn’t change[-out] people as often as we did. We have a tendency … maybe because of our political process, … [to] throw new people into [negotiations], and they may [be at a] disadvantage.… [The Russians have been better negotiators than we, for example, in defining the partnering arrangement for the International Space Station.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me close with this one last question, and I hope it’s not an awkward one for you. You mentioned earlier that you felt that being a commander was a very special time in your life. If you had one lesson that you would like to share with your crew or maybe one point of inspiration that you would like to share with others that you learned from being a commander, what is it that you would like to be remembered for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm, boy, that’s tough. Well, it’s a great job because you get to apply your technical capabilities, but it’s always a … human relations challenge, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a piece of advice for someone else that would be walking into a commander’s job, on how to succeed in accomplishing so much in such a little bit of the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00044:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm, boy, that’s tough. Well, it’s a great job because you get to apply your technical capabilities, but it’s always a … human relations challenge, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a piece of advice for someone else that would be walking into a commander’s job, on how to succeed in accomplishing so much in such a little bit of the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was never [that] much [of a] problem, because [looking back at] all of [my] crews, everyone was so happy to be on a crew. They could have been with their worst enemy and still pulled it off [the mission], you know. So it’s that kind of motivation that’s so important. If the space program can just continue to get such good people and keep them motivated that way, [there] just won’t be much problem. I guess I don’t have any real special thing to say. Just like any other job, you [have] opportunities to plan, [then] everything changes and you …[do the job]day by day the best you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And look back and learn those lessons and continue to go. Well, we wish you the best in all of your new plans and all those projects that you’re working on, and hope again we’ll be able to sit down at some point and talk about other accomplishments in those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I hope [that] NASA can have a lot of accomplishments in the future. You know, going back to 1958, [NASA’S] record [is] just astounding. It can continue or not. I hope it continues. If it doesn’t, why, it would be a little bit sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be. Well, we thank you again for spending the afternoon with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00627:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CASIS we should probably do at another session."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can probably save that for the next time. If you had to describe your job to somebody and what you do, is there anything else that we haven’t talked about just in the last few minutes, how you would describe your position? Maybe someone that wasn’t even involved with NASA, and you had to tell them, this is what I do. Or if you had to give a talk to somebody that wasn’t involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I meet someone on the airplane, I’m going to give them the one-sentence version of what I do. They don’t want to hear the triangle thing I just told you, right? Which is what I think I really do. But what I usually tell them is, I am the person that’s representing all the scientists in this huge engineering org, both to keep the scientists from going a little nuts and doing things they shouldn’t do, but also to make sure the program understands and serves them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you also deal with science representatives from all the international partners too, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. I have a counterpart, and that’s—one thing I’m really proud of that I’ve done was creating the Program Science Forum of all my counterparts, which didn’t exist before in that way. That’s something we might want to talk about in the future too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have that on my list. So I think for today, so we don’t keep you running too fast down the freeway, we can stop for today. But we appreciate it, thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 47.50377156624472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you were asking about the effect of having women in the office, the thing that I remember the best was the whole first name business, which we talked about before. It was clear that at that time none of the women were pilots, and so they were all in the same category as the rest of us nonpilots and also nonmilitary. At the time the office was completely run by pilots, as it always had been. That’s changed over the years. We got to the point where we had a woman as deputy chief of the Astronaut Office and now I guess we’re going to have the first woman who’s actually chief of the Astronaut Office, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, is there? Who is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, what’s her name, who was up on the Space Station twice now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peggy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peggy [A.] Whitson. At least I heard that. I can’t swear that that’s the truth but that’s what I heard. Kent [V.] Rominger was going to go and—was it Kent? Who was doing it? Who’s the current chief?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it is [Steven W. Lindsey] and then he got appointed to the final flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 50.55974618471636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, what’s her name, who was up on the Space Station twice now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peggy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peggy [A.] Whitson. At least I heard that. I can’t swear that that’s the truth but that’s what I heard. Kent [V.] Rominger was going to go and—was it Kent? Who was doing it? Who’s the current chief?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it is [Steven W. Lindsey] and then he got appointed to the final flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He assigned himself to be on the final flight, which is a nice deal. He has to leave in order to go train for that. I must have read it somewhere that Peggy is going to take over as chief. It’s been a progression from here to there over many years to the point where you have essentially a woman scientist as chief of the Astronaut Office. Al [Alan B.] Shepard would probably turn over in his grave, but that’s the way it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was interesting. A lot of people had some very interesting questions for me, one of which I think I sent to you. Did any of the women from that class approach things and say, “Well, I’m a woman and this is the kind of approach that I would use”? I never got that sense from the women I’ve talked to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 65.97431212424381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I certainly never saw anybody putting on lipstick. Earrings, yes, they wore earrings. There was a problem with hair at the beginning, because some of the women had pretty long hair. When they realized that the hair is out like this [demonstrates], it’s not only an inconvenience to the other crew. If everybody’s trying to get a view out the window and somebody’s hair is sticking out like this, then it could be a safety hazard. I know there was an incident where Judy [Judith A.] Resnik’s hair got caught in the IMAX camera. It then became a requirement to keep your hair either pulled back or put in a net, except for pictures, [where you could let] your hair out. Other than that you have to keep it under control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about that quote from Sally [K. Ride] about coming in and becoming one of those first professional women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me read it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how it was a very different climate, that they didn’t really know how to work with women. That’s still an experience today. I was curious, from your perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a cultural adjustment in some cases is still going on. I think it’s because NASA as an agency was [mostly] engineers. Forty years ago there were far fewer women engineers or pilots, and there were even fewer women test pilots. It was a masculine culture. It was basically white men who put us on the Moon. That changed as American culture changed, it just evolved.\\n\\n The same thing was true in the Flight Director’s Office. It was a long time before there were women flight directors. You need a certain personality, a certain forcefulness. Those were not qualities which traditionally had been encouraged among women, but times have changed and so now there [are] women flight directors just like there [are] women Shuttle commanders and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody also asked an interesting question about whether or not American culture forced NASA to accept women into the corps and flight directors."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 57.749235693604234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me read it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how it was a very different climate, that they didn’t really know how to work with women. That’s still an experience today. I was curious, from your perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a cultural adjustment in some cases is still going on. I think it’s because NASA as an agency was [mostly] engineers. Forty years ago there were far fewer women engineers or pilots, and there were even fewer women test pilots. It was a masculine culture. It was basically white men who put us on the Moon. That changed as American culture changed, it just evolved.\\n\\n The same thing was true in the Flight Director’s Office. It was a long time before there were women flight directors. You need a certain personality, a certain forcefulness. Those were not qualities which traditionally had been encouraged among women, but times have changed and so now there [are] women flight directors just like there [are] women Shuttle commanders and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody also asked an interesting question about whether or not American culture forced NASA to accept women into the corps and flight directors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’m sure that’s true, absolutely. There’s no question. That’s why when the Shuttle was designed it had to be designed to accept 95% of the American population, up to the 95th percentile tall six-foot-four northern [European] American male down to the fifth percentile five-foot Asian-American female. That’s all-inclusive. The Russians never had to do that, which is why their Soyuz didn’t fit two thirds of the US astronaut corps when we first started flying with the Russians. I had volunteered to go up on Mir. They were having trouble finding volunteers at the beginning. Norm [Norman E.] Thagard had volunteered to do it but not a whole lot of people wanted to go over and live in Russia and fly on the Mir. Then I found out I was too tall, much to my wife’s relief. But that’s another story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that would be an interesting story when we get to that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 71.24723689108949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, yes. They never had the push. There was no question. We knew. I was in the first selection of Shuttle astronauts. Nobody knew whether there [were] any quotas or requirements. I’m sure there are stories of what went on up in [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC]. We know that the selection at JSC then had to go up to Headquarters. We were supposed to hear the results in the middle of December, and we didn’t hear.\\n\\n There was all sorts of speculation that they didn’t have the right mix of people. I have no idea what really happened. Everybody knew there was going to be women and ethnic minorities. They had so many qualified people. It’s not like they had to sacrifice anything to find qualified people. All the people who came in were highly qualified, as much as the white men. So I think it was a good thing all around. There’s no question that was driven politically. Organizations generally don’t change themselves in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought we would start out—unless there was something that we had missed on your first flight [STS 51-D]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I enjoyed reading it over. One thing I wanted to ask by the way. You sent me a copy of the audio along with the transcript. It’d be nice to get also the electronic version of the transcript; if you could send me the one from that and when you do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh sure. I’d be happy to send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 79.16359654565498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I enjoyed reading it over. One thing I wanted to ask by the way. You sent me a copy of the audio along with the transcript. It’d be nice to get also the electronic version of the transcript; if you could send me the one from that and when you do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh sure. I’d be happy to send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was a pretty long document."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 86.8484406062833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it was a nice record for me. I wanted to share it with my family who’s around. It’s much easier these days just to send an electronic file."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Yes. Just shoot everybody an email."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was a pretty long document."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Obviously you have it in electronic form, so yes, that would be nice. I think having read through that I was quite pleased. That’s why I say for me it brought back a lot of nice memories. It was a nice record of the flights. I gave it to my sons to look at. “Do you remember when I was doing this?” Of course for them it was nice. When I did my first flight they were what, five and nine years old. They didn’t remember a lot of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yes, they probably weren’t exactly sure what was going on at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 95.38715622920367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was a pretty long document."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s hard to retype all that. It’ll take us just a second when we get back to the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Obviously you have it in electronic form, so yes, that would be nice. I think having read through that I was quite pleased. That’s why I say for me it brought back a lot of nice memories. It was a nice record of the flights. I gave it to my sons to look at. “Do you remember when I was doing this?” Of course for them it was nice. When I did my first flight they were what, five and nine years old. They didn’t remember a lot of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yes, they probably weren’t exactly sure what was going on at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the only thing that I’ll mention—they reminded me of this when I showed it to them. When we got back, there had been some problems. I guess in the previous flight a lot of people are kind of unsteady on their feet. I guess it was Ron [Ronald E.] McNair had two little kids. He’d been on a flight a couple flights before me. After [landing], his kids ran up to jump on him and knocked him over.\\n\\n All of our kids got a big lecture. “You must not run and jump on your daddy.” So what is the first thing that my kids did? They ran up and jumped on me, but I didn’t fall down. They remembered that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s too funny. You gathered all the kids together from the crew and told them all together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 127.83150430037007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Obviously we didn’t go back to the simulator after that. Everybody was in shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the office and congregate together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then the people who were running the office, they were trying to think, “What do we do now?” I went back to the simulator office, and I got all their personal belongings out of [their area], because as prime crew they have a special area. I didn’t want people going, taking their nameplates and little books and stuff.\\n\\n Eventually they assigned people, an astronaut, to work with each of the families, which they now call the CACOs, the casualty assistant [case] officer I think, if I remember, to help them with the government paperwork and all sorts of things. I experienced that actually closer up when Dave [S. David] Griggs got killed in an airplane accident, not Shuttle-related, since they were our close neighbors. Don [Donald E.] Williams, who was his pilot, was actually the official CACO. Because we were such close friends with the family, we helped out a lot with funeral arrangements and just helping with the kids. That was tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that happen? Was that before or after Challenger?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have been after, around ’88, something around that time. He was flying an airplane in an air show. Dave was one of the best pilots. Sometimes your number just comes up. He was flying an old World War II Navy airplane and did an aileron roll. He was not familiar with the plane, I guess. He was too close to the ground, caught a wingtip, and just like that. Like I say, he was one of the best pilots in the corps, there’s no question. Everybody respected him for that. It was a real shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of impact does that have on the Astronaut Office itself? You lost seven members of the Astronaut Office, and then you lose another member later."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 139.4748189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us or share with us what you learned from the ASTRO mission scientifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, it’s been a long time. We’ve learned so much since then from Hubble. It was an ultraviolet telescope. At the time, it was able to make some kinds of observation with greater accuracy and precision than the Hubble instrumentation at the time could do, particularly given that the Hubble optics were not working properly. I think they took advantage of that even for the second flight of ASTRO, after we had fixed Hubble. It had capabilities in the far ultraviolet that Hubble at the time didn’t have. I remember there was one example where they were looking for—I guess they were able to determine cosmic helium abundance with a greater precision. As I say, there have been so many astronomical discoveries since that it all blurs.\\n\\n I suppose had I not been assigned to another flight, I had been invited to go, “Why don’t you come spend some time while we’re working with the data?” That would have been fun, but I was hard at work on the tethered satellite right after ASTRO finished so I never really had much of a chance to get involved in the data reduction. Yes, I saw the results as they came out, but it’s all blended into a continuum with Hubble results and the results from ASTRO-2.\\n\\n They did a lot of basically determination of chemical abundances and the physical conditions which you can see with far ultraviolet light more clearly than we could see previously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other anecdotes from that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn’t I give you enough?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, but we always ask."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00276:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 154.972021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, it’s been a long time. We’ve learned so much since then from Hubble. It was an ultraviolet telescope. At the time, it was able to make some kinds of observation with greater accuracy and precision than the Hubble instrumentation at the time could do, particularly given that the Hubble optics were not working properly. I think they took advantage of that even for the second flight of ASTRO, after we had fixed Hubble. It had capabilities in the far ultraviolet that Hubble at the time didn’t have. I remember there was one example where they were looking for—I guess they were able to determine cosmic helium abundance with a greater precision. As I say, there have been so many astronomical discoveries since that it all blurs.\\n\\n I suppose had I not been assigned to another flight, I had been invited to go, “Why don’t you come spend some time while we’re working with the data?” That would have been fun, but I was hard at work on the tethered satellite right after ASTRO finished so I never really had much of a chance to get involved in the data reduction. Yes, I saw the results as they came out, but it’s all blended into a continuum with Hubble results and the results from ASTRO-2.\\n\\n They did a lot of basically determination of chemical abundances and the physical conditions which you can see with far ultraviolet light more clearly than we could see previously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other anecdotes from that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn’t I give you enough?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, but we always ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you were the first astronaut to wear a tie in space. You had mentioned the tie."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.92806532742503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is Louise Liller. What else should I say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you served?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I served in El Salvador in 2006 to 2008, and then I did a Peace Corps Response in 2009. I don't know if we're going to talk about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can. Yeah. So why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should have known this question was coming. I don't know. At the time, um. So I joined the Peace Corps. I started the Peace Corps when I was 30 and at the time I was doing social work. I was in the social work field in Austin, Texas, and I had a job that was sort of stressful and it was good. I liked it, but I knew I wanted to do something different. And like every day when I got ready for work in the morning, I had this like, note, this paper stuck in my closet. And it said, like, have a baby, buy a house, and move to another country and learn Spanish. And so those things were just like every day I saw that those are my goals and things that I knew I wanted to do. And so obviously I went in one direction, which was to move to another country and learn Spanish. And so that was kind of, it was in my head and I knew I was ready to do something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So out of all those other choices you could have done, teaching abroad, or you know, just traveling abroad, why the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.475628141583367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I served in El Salvador in 2006 to 2008, and then I did a Peace Corps Response in 2009. I don't know if we're going to talk about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can. Yeah. So why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should have known this question was coming. I don't know. At the time, um. So I joined the Peace Corps. I started the Peace Corps when I was 30 and at the time I was doing social work. I was in the social work field in Austin, Texas, and I had a job that was sort of stressful and it was good. I liked it, but I knew I wanted to do something different. And like every day when I got ready for work in the morning, I had this like, note, this paper stuck in my closet. And it said, like, have a baby, buy a house, and move to another country and learn Spanish. And so those things were just like every day I saw that those are my goals and things that I knew I wanted to do. And so obviously I went in one direction, which was to move to another country and learn Spanish. And so that was kind of, it was in my head and I knew I was ready to do something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So out of all those other choices you could have done, teaching abroad, or you know, just traveling abroad, why the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really have done a lot of different service and that was sort of important to me. So I had been an AmeriCorps volunteer here in Austin and also I had just a feeling of wanting to give back. And Peace Corps seemed like, uh, like I had looked into Jesuit Volunteer Corps a little bit too. But Peace Corps I think just seemed like a more, like it offered some structure I think. And also the time was like it was, being there for a longer amount of time was something that was appealing. I knew I didn't just want to go somewhere for a couple months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So what was life like before joining the Peace Corps? Work, social, whatever you feel like talking about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.760034742695514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really have done a lot of different service and that was sort of important to me. So I had been an AmeriCorps volunteer here in Austin and also I had just a feeling of wanting to give back. And Peace Corps seemed like, uh, like I had looked into Jesuit Volunteer Corps a little bit too. But Peace Corps I think just seemed like a more, like it offered some structure I think. And also the time was like it was, being there for a longer amount of time was something that was appealing. I knew I didn't just want to go somewhere for a couple months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So what was life like before joining the Peace Corps? Work, social, whatever you feel like talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, I was. Yeah, I mean, I worked a lot and you know, like I said, like my job was kind of a little bit stressful at the time. And I liked it though. There were lots of things I liked about it. I had finished, sort of recently finished a graduate program in sustainability. But then I was living in a city too. So that may have been another reason why I kind of wanted to get out and be in a more rural environment again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you get to pick your country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just applied."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.400038602995015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, I was. Yeah, I mean, I worked a lot and you know, like I said, like my job was kind of a little bit stressful at the time. And I liked it though. There were lots of things I liked about it. I had finished, sort of recently finished a graduate program in sustainability. But then I was living in a city too. So that may have been another reason why I kind of wanted to get out and be in a more rural environment again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you get to pick your country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just applied."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.111154003327794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just applied."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.901282225919771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied. I put down, I think, like they gave me a region. Latin America. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.77920247324419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly, it was good other than like I had like, you know, they asked some questions about like, had you ever gone to like counseling, which I had, and so then I had to do this crazy battery of like psychological tests. I mean, it was just, it felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.754669414715767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the application, yeah. Like it was in my medical background check. And so that kind of held up the process for a while, which is interesting, but I think it like just sort of slowed it down. But it also gave me an opportunity to be sure that I was really choosing this, you know. Because it was like, at some point it was like, I can't believe I have to do another thing. But then it also, it did. It gave me the opportunity to be sure, like, no, this is really what I want to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's good. So what was your reaction when you actually got accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.838521571906409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I didn't know where, like anything about El Salvador. I remember just kind of like, you know, like looking it up on a map, you know, which was. It was interesting to have it actually be real, I guess. So I was excited and nervous and just didn't really know what to expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.042801746562676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I think they probably had mixed feelings, but I don't know. I don't know that they actually had any real reservations, but I don't know that anyone was, like, super excited about it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your friends, when you told them, hey, I'm going away for two years. How did they feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like before leaving?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before leaving, yes, let's start there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.825335273958528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I feel like I'd gone, you know, had gone and come back. Like I had gone away to graduate school and then I came back. And so it was just sort of a way of. I feel like a lot of people in my life at that time were sort of more nomadic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. So how did you train for your assignment in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like before leaving?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before leaving, yes, let's start there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.69481697106503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like before leaving?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before leaving, yes, let's start there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just packed whatever you thought you needed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.660907745627812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't do anything. I mean, it was like, I was like packing up. I mean, I was quitting my job. And then I ran a summer session of like the Student Conservation Association that summer in Montana. And so I quit my job in Austin and I went to Montana and then I had a 30th birthday party and then I like took a cross-country road trip to my parents. You know what I mean? It was just like a series of things. So I mean, mainly it was just like wrapping up my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to anybody in country or that would've been there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just packed whatever you thought you needed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like they, like, sent out a list or something, and I followed it. And then I was like, why did this person say this? Like, that's crazy. Like when they said, don't take hiking boots. And I was like, don't? And I didn't. And then I was like, of course I need hiking boots, I was doing agricultural work. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. So how is, what kind of technical training or training did you get while you're in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.560915974798094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. The technical training part. Actually, I'm going to take a step back before I get, am I just allowed to interrupt?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so I was nervous about going and I wasn't really sure still. And it was like the day before. What do you call it when you all meet in D.C. before you leave?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Staging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Staging. So I went and I stayed at a friend's house in Virginia and like she drove me to staging whatever it was like at a hotel or something. And like, it was probably 10:30 in the morning or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9193313600536746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so that happened. And then I was like, OK, like, I'm supposed to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like clearly I'm supposed to go to the Peace Corps, like I'm supposed to do this thing. So I was still kind of like feeling like, am I really making the right decision? But then that was like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, totally. I mean, it was amazing. It was just, it was crazy. So that was a really good thing. So then we got to country, in country, and the training that we received, you know. So like I remember doing like one of the things I remember really specifically for some reason is like they had a like a level, like a nivel that they called it, like this like level that you would use when you're doing planting. I have no idea why that's like the one super thing that sticks in my mind. And like tree grafting, which I'd done some tree grafting. I went to graduate school in Pennsylvania, but like, different. So like citrus, you know, so it was like interesting to kind of learn some sort of techniques.\n\nAnd then a lot of like our training too was about sort of like meeting facilitation. And so some things I still use are actually like some of the community, like doing community mapping and like this way of doing community decision making. Like I still use those now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's currently impacting your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.465923733392971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like clearly I'm supposed to go to the Peace Corps, like I'm supposed to do this thing. So I was still kind of like feeling like, am I really making the right decision? But then that was like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, totally. I mean, it was amazing. It was just, it was crazy. So that was a really good thing. So then we got to country, in country, and the training that we received, you know. So like I remember doing like one of the things I remember really specifically for some reason is like they had a like a level, like a nivel that they called it, like this like level that you would use when you're doing planting. I have no idea why that's like the one super thing that sticks in my mind. And like tree grafting, which I'd done some tree grafting. I went to graduate school in Pennsylvania, but like, different. So like citrus, you know, so it was like interesting to kind of learn some sort of techniques.\n\nAnd then a lot of like our training too was about sort of like meeting facilitation. And so some things I still use are actually like some of the community, like doing community mapping and like this way of doing community decision making. Like I still use those now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's currently impacting your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, totally. I mean, those are good skills. These are great skills to use with people. So things like that I think were really good. And then some of the technical stuff, I mean, it was really interesting. Like, I had studied agriculture and so like going and seeing some different, you know, like those were it was pretty fun to kind of see it in another country. But my Spanish wasn't good when I got there. I mean, it's still not great. But so I mean, that was also just like a big part of it was just sort of being, like learning Spanish was like a big part of the beginning of my service for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that part like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.126095656231785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was good. So like we had training where I don't remember how long it was, a couple of months. So like, I had a host family for training. That was actually a really sweet part of my service, and I stayed in touch with my host family for, I mean, I guess I'm still in touch with them, you know. My host mom has passed but her children. And it was nice. I mean, they like had other Peace Corps volunteers before and kind of knew the drill and are just, like, very welcoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was super sweet. And then there was also sort of a nice little community where we'd be doing some things still with other volunteers. And so it felt like, you know, like I felt like part of that community and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like it was kind of both. Yeah. So that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any in-class language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.328513155841709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like it was kind of both. Yeah. So that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any in-class language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had training. And so there were like four of us, I think, and then we would meet in our like host community with an instructor. And that was also, those were good classes. And then it was like one of the things I remember most, though, was like El Salvador has had several earthquakes. And that was my first time living in an area that was earthquake prone. And there was like a tremor, I guess. And like our teacher, she just shot outside because she had lived through earthquakes before and like, we were all just sitting there like, what are we doing? It's interesting because part of my job now is like emergency response and like the psychology behind it. And how do you have people make others, you know what I mean? But I think about that moment a lot. It was like she was just like, she felt like she did not hesitate. She didn't gather anything, you know what I mean? She was just like, get outside. And so that's in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cultural differences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.031681284268566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had training. And so there were like four of us, I think, and then we would meet in our like host community with an instructor. And that was also, those were good classes. And then it was like one of the things I remember most, though, was like El Salvador has had several earthquakes. And that was my first time living in an area that was earthquake prone. And there was like a tremor, I guess. And like our teacher, she just shot outside because she had lived through earthquakes before and like, we were all just sitting there like, what are we doing? It's interesting because part of my job now is like emergency response and like the psychology behind it. And how do you have people make others, you know what I mean? But I think about that moment a lot. It was like she was just like, she felt like she did not hesitate. She didn't gather anything, you know what I mean? She was just like, get outside. And so that's in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cultural differences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was always the theme of the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.812979204742851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally. Yeah, lived experience, and you know. Yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Um, can you say something about the strength and weaknesses of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was always the theme of the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a theme that was there. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.681088005269833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So something that I remember a lot from training too was that, um, our like training host person who's an amazing woman, but she had been like assaulted in country. She'd been raped in country. And so that was a real thing that happened, you know, and like she shared that, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't want her to not, you know, I don't know. But it definitely was like, um, like it was very much, um, like it kind of overshadowed a lot of other things in the training, which was just like, you know. Like it just almost, it was such a strange thing and like almost all inevitable, like, you're going to be sexually assaulted when you're here. And it was just so, um, like, I'm not saying that was negative I guess? I don't know, but I mean, it was just a very, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was always the theme of the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a theme that was there. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could have been strength, could have been a weakness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.645653339188703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, it was always there, you know, in that. And it, you know, and our host community for training was safe and again, like people were, you know. But and definitely like where I was placed was like probably less safe than our host community. But yeah, I mean, just sort of like that specter was always sort of there as a volunteer. And it was, um, I mean, that was, I don't know. Again, was that a strength or weakness of training? I mean, it was just a really, yeah. It was a theme."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a theme that was there. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could have been strength, could have been a weakness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awareness. Hyper awareness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.71739259909856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could have been strength, could have been a weakness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awareness. Hyper awareness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hyper awareness I think, hyper awareness for sure. I don't know, you know, it was interesting, but definitely that was something that was perhaps something that also like pretty distinctive that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you get placed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.797102887887288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, would I have been better off, like not having that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awareness. Hyper awareness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hyper awareness I think, hyper awareness for sure. I don't know, you know, it was interesting, but definitely that was something that was perhaps something that also like pretty distinctive that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you get placed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was placed in the eastern part of the country in Morazán."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's that region like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.626052948008997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was placed in the eastern part of the country in Morazán."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's that region like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's mountainous. It's beautiful, beautiful mountains. Where I was at the time was pretty, not super rural. I mean, there was a dirt road like through town, but yeah, pretty rural. So not close to a highway. I was. Which I know like other like Peace Corps volunteers in Africa would be like, you know, I was probably like five and a half hours from the capital or something, you know, which like volunteers were like, it's nothing. But like in a tiny country like El Salvador, where there were people that could be there in 45 minutes, you know, like it felt like I had this like long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long journey."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.695614386676663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's mountainous. It's beautiful, beautiful mountains. Where I was at the time was pretty, not super rural. I mean, there was a dirt road like through town, but yeah, pretty rural. So not close to a highway. I was. Which I know like other like Peace Corps volunteers in Africa would be like, you know, I was probably like five and a half hours from the capital or something, you know, which like volunteers were like, it's nothing. But like in a tiny country like El Salvador, where there were people that could be there in 45 minutes, you know, like it felt like I had this like long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long journey."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we didn't have a site visit. I don't, like I think I just showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just showed up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.884015985196292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, you know, to get anywhere. And there wasn't, there was one volunteer who was in like a pueblo that was on the way to where I lived. Um, but there weren't. There wasn't, like I was in a place that hadn't had a volunteer before and there weren't other volunteers around, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first day when you had to do a site visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we didn't have a site visit. I don't, like I think I just showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just showed up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that like? Like the journey and then seeing the town that you were in? Can you describe that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5741746459324695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a huge dead cow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the family that I was staying with, like they were like the butchers for the whole area. And so like walking out and seeing this like in process, like pretty intense, you know? And I walked, you know, and I was just like, it's the first thing in the morning, you know what I mean? And I like turned and like I walked into this other door and this sweet little host mom, she like held up the leg, you know, of the cow. And like she had just like juices like dripping off her arm. And she just shook it at me and she said, I'm going to make you a delicious soup with this. I'm like, uh. And I was just like, OK, you know, and I just went out to the outhouse, like to the latrine, and I just sat down and I was like, oh my god. Like, all right, I'm in it now. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the moment when you knew you're."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, shit just got real. Yeah. And I mean, and it's really sweet, like, sopa de pata is like a special, you know. But like for me, like that wasn't like, you know, it's a hard thing to kind of like wake up to and just in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your host family like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1779933900400854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, shit just got real. Yeah. And I mean, and it's really sweet, like, sopa de pata is like a special, you know. But like for me, like that wasn't like, you know, it's a hard thing to kind of like wake up to and just in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your host family like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like super religious Evangelical Christians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't know this at the time. And so like, there was a lot going on like I said. So like, I'm there and I'm sharing a room with these two women who are like, not maybe my age or a little bit younger or maybe, I don't know, you know. They are adult women, you know? Anyway, I mean, it turns out that one of these women had just found out she was pregnant and not, you know, so she's not married and then she's pregnant. And so, but they're not telling me, like, I'm finding out all of this later. There's a lot of stress in the house going on, right? So I did not arrive at a good time for this family. And so, yeah, so then like at one point, they were like, oh, there's going to be a wedding. And I remember like, oh, like, I mean it was like in the capital and I got like a wedding present or something, you know. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? I was all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you get?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.531103766711206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like super religious Evangelical Christians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't know this at the time. And so like, there was a lot going on like I said. So like, I'm there and I'm sharing a room with these two women who are like, not maybe my age or a little bit younger or maybe, I don't know, you know. They are adult women, you know? Anyway, I mean, it turns out that one of these women had just found out she was pregnant and not, you know, so she's not married and then she's pregnant. And so, but they're not telling me, like, I'm finding out all of this later. There's a lot of stress in the house going on, right? So I did not arrive at a good time for this family. And so, yeah, so then like at one point, they were like, oh, there's going to be a wedding. And I remember like, oh, like, I mean it was like in the capital and I got like a wedding present or something, you know. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? I was all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you get?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like super bizarre, but it was like, who knows what? Like something that you would give as a wedding present here, like a crystal something? You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know what you know, but it just seemed like I should do this thing. There's going to be a wedding. I didn't know she was pregnant, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden there was like no talk of the wedding. And so then the wedding's off, you know, and I'm just like, I have no, you know, like, nobody's like confiding in me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You found out later."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.24827625519902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like super bizarre, but it was like, who knows what? Like something that you would give as a wedding present here, like a crystal something? You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know what you know, but it just seemed like I should do this thing. There's going to be a wedding. I didn't know she was pregnant, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden there was like no talk of the wedding. And so then the wedding's off, you know, and I'm just like, I have no, you know, like, nobody's like confiding in me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You found out later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later, I find out. Yeah, and so like, she was pregnant, and then he had also gotten someone else pregnant at the same time. You know, I mean, there was all this drama that's going on. And they're super religious, you know. And it was like, it was just, I'm sure a very intense time for their family. And then I show up and, you know, I'm like, yeah, like, not. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't the program."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.498084727998911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later, I find out. Yeah, and so like, she was pregnant, and then he had also gotten someone else pregnant at the same time. You know, I mean, there was all this drama that's going on. And they're super religious, you know. And it was like, it was just, I'm sure a very intense time for their family. And then I show up and, you know, I'm like, yeah, like, not. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your partner at site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7756496977765677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, I didn't know how to deal with it. And so then the woman who, one of the women, the other sister, was a teacher at the school. And so then, you know, I got to the school and essentially. So this was the first time they were having a volunteer at all in site. And essentially, they just like were like ready to just give me an English class and make me a full time English teacher, which, you know, like in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done in that. But I was just like, I'm not going to spend two years teaching English like, you know, like I that wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your partner at site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't have partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.084055219751742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn't the program I signed up for, and that wasn't really my interest. And I had just been working doing social work in a school for years, you know what I mean? I just wasn't interested necessarily in like. I was wanting to do more like different work than that. And so, you know, we kind of went, but like, I mean, they were ready to essentially just have me have a classroom, and this would be, I would, you know? And um, so then there was tension with that. And you know, and then there was tension in the house that I lived in and I didn't know anybody. So it was. And there hadn't been a volunteer there before, and it just wasn't a great situation. So there wasn't really work for me to, there just, things just weren't really set up, you know, in a good way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your partner at site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't have partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, I guess, Peace Corps staff deal with this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.572907678705854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, I guess, Peace Corps staff deal with this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I reached out to Rolando, who was our program person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Director? Manager?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And at some point, I think he did come out and make a site visit, you know? But I mean, essentially, he was just like, make it work. And I didn't know how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like that for other volunteers? Or they go to a site and they figured it out on their own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5293658144113222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think, yeah, like I think that there definitely, you know, I think that's right. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's a fair thing. You know what I mean, to try to. But like, I didn't really have a, like I think that works. But if you have someone that's sort of an ambassador kind of between, you know, to kind of help. And so I mean, I didn't. Like I think they wanted this teacher to kind of be that person for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't want to be at the school full time. And then she had a full-time job and she wasn't interested in doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Secondary projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Agricultural work or, you know, I mean, like, that wasn't her thing at all. And so it wasn't, it just, like things weren't clicking. And again, like my Spanish wasn't great and like. So it was just weird. It was weird and hard and I, like it was hard to reach out to Rolando and not like, you know. I just didn't know what to do, you know? And so like, I don't even know all the timelines for everything. And I'm just like, how do I even spend my days? Like it feels kind of weird to think about it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the next question. How did you spend your work? How did you spend your workday and leisure day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.841379717985353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I mean, I know, like at some point I was just like, I'm going to just go house to house, you know, and that's kind of what I did at some point. And just kind of was like trying to, you know, meet people and figure things out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were some, you know, nice families that, like that was good. So eventually, eventually I moved into another family's house where. That was part of it too. I think even initially, like with Rolando, I was like, this living situation is just too much. Like the family didn't want me there. Sharing a room. There was a lot of other stuff going on that I just didn't understand. I didn't have any privacy. I didn't feel comfortable there, you know. And it was like, you know, like there wasn't, like I couldn't. I didn't even feel like I could just go cook my own food, you know. Like it was this very strange thing where they didn't want me. So then I was like being served. I mean, it was just weird. The whole thing was weird. And then I, like so, but like he or they or somehow like there wasn't a house or they just didn't like nobody wanted me to live on my own, which I mean like that kind of makes sense I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the family and Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how. I mean, I think the family was fine with me leaving, you know, but there wasn't like, yeah, it just wasn't working. And so then I ended up moving into this other family's house, and that was kind of better, but I was still like sharing a room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did this family do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.631332985167102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how. I mean, I think the family was fine with me leaving, you know, but there wasn't like, yeah, it just wasn't working. And so then I ended up moving into this other family's house, and that was kind of better, but I was still like sharing a room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did this family do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the mom. She wasn't the mom, she was the aunt. So it was the aunt. She was a farmer. So I liked that. And then her nephew was the mayor. So he. And then they had another nephew that was there that had been deported from the States. So he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knew English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Knew English, but he didn't know what he was doing with his life at all. And like at some point, he like maybe had never graduated high school and like he went back to high school. And it was also very weird because he was probably in his twenties, you know what I mean? And then he's like, which is something that's very common too, you know. But that worked out for a while, you know, but again, like, there was no privacy. I definitely was like, the kitchen wasn't, you know what I mean? It was like, it was just like, it was just a hard living situation. And then at some point, like a house, somebody told me about a house or something, and then I had a house, you know. And then it was like my life just was like, everything just kind of changed where I like didn't have to be on like, you know, and I mean, like never being able to just turn off, I think, was exhausting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you get to relax."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0186103760386103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, there are probably 20 people. I mean, it was a good size, yeah, like people came to, you know what I mean? I think they wanted to meet me. It was weird, you know? And then, yeah. And so then like I started kind of going out like with some of the farmers a little bit more, which is like more of what I've been doing and or wanted to do, you know? And then that was how like I was with Rosa, and that was eventually how I ended up moving in with her because she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The third house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the second house. Yeah. And then so I would go out and like, work with her sometimes and then somehow, like she had this other family member. Oh I can't believe I can't remember his name. He was so sweet and amazing. But I would work with him. And then, um, so like doing sort of like just kind of getting the lay of the land it felt like took a long time. And then, you know, like some of the work started.\n\nSo like doing school gardens was something that was really good. And doing like family gardens, like working with women, growing, like women growing vegetables just on their like right at their homes, like trying to do some of that. And then like, there was a like a couple sort of ongoing reforestation project of there was this hill that was right there. And so like, there were like several like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Layers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just like, yeah, I mean, like plantings and community events and reforestation events. And that was good. I mean, those projects were, you know, and interspersed with like the rainy season and coffee. And you know what I mean, like there were just like seasonal, like these very seasonal shifts of like times when you could do things and times when you really couldn't. And eventually things like the work parts started coming together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things did you grow in the gardens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.318896126928249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, like at some point it was just like, you know, like everybody talks about it, like, you're dreaming in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think also too, I mean, it's funny. You know, my Spanish is like, you know, like, I like, I have kind of like, you know. El Salvador in some ways, like the language is kind of formal too, like they don't use the tú form like, you know what I mean, it's like usted. And so like, I feel like in some ways, like my Spanish is kind of formal and that I was always like sort of like at work Spanish. Like I had some friends like, you know what I mean? Like I said, like going and like doing those like little gardens with women like it became more of like a friendship thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Diversity even within the volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.909884585475832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think also too, I mean, it's funny. You know, my Spanish is like, you know, like, I like, I have kind of like, you know. El Salvador in some ways, like the language is kind of formal too, like they don't use the tú form like, you know what I mean, it's like usted. And so like, I feel like in some ways, like my Spanish is kind of formal and that I was always like sort of like at work Spanish. Like I had some friends like, you know what I mean? Like I said, like going and like doing those like little gardens with women like it became more of like a friendship thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Diversity even within the volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for sure. For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do during vacation time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5665384283064805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah. And then also the other part is that, like my Spanish is sort of like campesino. And so I think I told you my cousin was there. And so like, I remember one time meeting up with him at some point in the capital and me like just saying, like, we were leaving a shop and I was like, salud. And he looked at me and he was just like, yeah, like, that's totally not anything somebody would say in the city. And I was like, OK, cool, like noted. But just really being in that like, really rural, you know, like, sort of colloquial. You know, so it's just such an interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Diversity even within the volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for sure. For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do during vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was lucky, like my family came down. But mostly I stayed in El Salvador. So it was nice because the country is so small like you could really get to see the whole country. So that was something that was really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys had to take vacation within country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9957264546993585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was lucky, like my family came down. But mostly I stayed in El Salvador. So it was nice because the country is so small like you could really get to see the whole country. So that was something that was really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys had to take vacation within country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like within El Salvador, it's not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.773029394110398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like within El Salvador, it's not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.52558821567822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't remember how I would do that. I don't know. I know when we like left country, which I came back to the States one time during my service. Or any time you left, like I trained for that half marathon and that was in Guatemala. And so like, you had to like, really let them know if you left country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like within El Salvador, it's not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just leisurely vacations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2506535729758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think I had to say anything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you went back to the States and then you went to Guatemala for the half marathon. Anywhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just leisurely vacations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.056281747750889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Oh, I went to Nicaragua. Yeah, I did. A friend of mine from the States got married and I went there, and that was really nice. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just leisurely vacations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Connecting with the kids?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.951424164167655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so leisurely. It's funny. In Nicaragua, we did some hiking. It was really nice. Like they lived in this cloud forest outside of like Esteli. It was so beautiful. It was really great. But yeah, hiking, hiking volcanoes. And then where I lived, it was really nice because I could. There were all these waterfalls that you could hike to. It was so beautiful. Like, that always has been my dream to just be able to, like, walk out of my front door and go hiking. And so that is actually something, when I think about integrating into the community, was that I had like my little minion friends or whatever, but like I was always up for going, you know, like to the waterfalls. And so they like, we're always happy to go with me there, which was really nice. And yeah, like, yeah, definitely I feel like probably connecting with the kids and we had a little book club. And yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say that was one of the best parts of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Connecting with the kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any like significant impact with any one of them or would you like to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.834915737964062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Connecting with the kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any like significant impact with any one of them or would you like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's so hard to say, you know. I mean, there's definitely folks that I keep in touch with. And now that like Facebook is everywhere, like people sort of have reached out again. And it's nice and it's so sweet and there's always things that are great. And then it's also like, you know, I don't know if you have this or not, but it's like there's often requests for money, you know, that come with that, like reaching out when I haven't heard from somebody in a while and it's like. And I don't know how to deal with it, you know? And like, I'm very inconsistent. And sometimes, yeah, it's very generous and other times not. And like after I left. Like, there's a couple folks who like started like sort of a formal scholarship fund for women, and I didn't do anything like that, but I did, you know, like I sponsored two girls to go to college. And I don't know. It's interesting because it's just like, you know, like in retrospect, it's not like I'm mad that I did it or, you know, and I mean, but it was. I don't know that that changed, like that didn't really change. You know what I mean? It's so hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so hard to tell, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.547653921603508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely better the second year. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, in the second year, you pretty much lived in the second house that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the final house, yeah like the third house. Yeah, I mean, I think probably I was there for about a year. That makes sense. And yeah, and I just think that right like that was like easier. Like, I had community that I liked, people that I knew that I hung out with, that were friends and, you know, and right. And then I wasn't with the super religious family anymore. And I wasn't with, you know, like Rosa was a little crazy. She was fine. But you know. But yeah, like just able to like have some space of my own and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Structure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.275171024003897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the final house, yeah like the third house. Yeah, I mean, I think probably I was there for about a year. That makes sense. And yeah, and I just think that right like that was like easier. Like, I had community that I liked, people that I knew that I hung out with, that were friends and, you know, and right. And then I wasn't with the super religious family anymore. And I wasn't with, you know, like Rosa was a little crazy. She was fine. But you know. But yeah, like just able to like have some space of my own and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Structure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.972412248893218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Structure, yeah. I got to make my structure and structure my days and it was like. Yeah, like I would get up and I would run and I'd come home and I'd make breakfast and I'd go out and do whatever I was doing during the day and then taking a break and then visiting a little bit in the afternoon. Whatever social kind of work visit things. And then like, come home, lock the doors, make dinner. And then it was like, but it was a nice like getting into a nice routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you extend for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Panama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the experience very similar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.636013609881354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I did go, like I said to the, I did a Peace Corps Response not too long after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Panama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the experience very similar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was like a total light year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the difference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.373348455423726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Panama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the experience very similar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was like a total light year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I mean, it was like a 180. So I was with a family and the family was very welcoming. And, you know, and I loved living with them and I had a room, you know, like I had space where I could be in my room. And um, and the family that I lived with was amazing. And, you know, the father was like a leader in sort of the organic agriculture movement. And, you know, we did a lot of great projects together, like he was ready. His organization was ready, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you to come."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.192609394915252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was like a total light year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I mean, it was like a 180. So I was with a family and the family was very welcoming. And, you know, and I loved living with them and I had a room, you know, like I had space where I could be in my room. And um, and the family that I lived with was amazing. And, you know, the father was like a leader in sort of the organic agriculture movement. And, you know, we did a lot of great projects together, like he was ready. His organization was ready, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you to come."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For anybody. You know what I mean? They were like, we have all this stuff to do. We need someone. And I was like, great, I'm here, you know? And then his wife and her sister had a little restaurant business kind of thing in their home. And so like, I did some agriculture stuff and then I did. Uh, there were all these little tiny schools, like there were sort of indigenous communities around there too. And like I would go and I would do just one environmental lesson a day at each. So like, I had five schools that I went to, one a day, and I would just did this like series of environmental lessons that another volunteer there and I developed. And it was like, yeah, I mean, it was just a total. Yeah, it was a total 180."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you want to do Response?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.383551982051101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got back to the States, I had been expecting that this like former boyfriend and I like, we had these plans to get together again. And then when I got back that like immediately, like anyway, but like fell apart and then I was like, oh shit. And like, and I remember like him even saying, like, well, what was your Plan B? And I was like, I don't have a Plan B. We're going to do this thing together, you know? And so like, that was like this very dramatic thing. And so I went to like yoga school for a month and I did 10 days of meditation. I was like, what do I do with my life? And it was just like Peace Corps Response. And I'm so glad I did because I think had I not like, I think it was really important for me to have a positive experience. And also just because I had felt like, you know, I felt like there was something wrong with me. You know what I mean? Like, everybody else was like doing these things and like things are working out. And I was like, what is it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other volunteers that I knew, you know? But it wasn't, you know what I mean, I mean, or maybe it was, it was a combination of things, you know, but so I mean, I had better cultural competence. I had better language skills coming in and but also coming into a place where somebody was ready to receive a volunteer, I think was also something that was pretty important. But yeah, I stay in touch with that family. And yeah, they're super sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was the Response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I mean, it was probably around six months, it wasn't super long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the training very similar to Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.411792570433457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I mean, it was probably around six months, it wasn't super long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the training very similar to Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't get training really hardly at all. I came in with one other Response volunteer who was kind of at the other end of like this valley. Like we're in Chiriquí and like there was like Volcán Barú in the middle. And um, we wouldn't be able to walk to each other's place. I don't remember. But she and I sort of had similar projects, and she had been a Peace Corps volunteer in Panama before, and so she was doing Response coming back, I think, to her community, maybe even or a similar community. And so, yeah, so like she and I like, yeah, we were able to work well. Like we developed that sort of curriculum together and she was doing it on her side and I was doing it on my side and she had some folks that she was working with in community. And I had mine, you know, but we had good. It was good. Yeah. But I don't think we got much training. I mean, I think it was just like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go for it. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So let's see, what else about Response. I guess what was your, well, what big projects or what projects were you proud of in both Peace Corps and within Response?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.901991744926063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't get training really hardly at all. I came in with one other Response volunteer who was kind of at the other end of like this valley. Like we're in Chiriquí and like there was like Volcán Barú in the middle. And um, we wouldn't be able to walk to each other's place. I don't remember. But she and I sort of had similar projects, and she had been a Peace Corps volunteer in Panama before, and so she was doing Response coming back, I think, to her community, maybe even or a similar community. And so, yeah, so like she and I like, yeah, we were able to work well. Like we developed that sort of curriculum together and she was doing it on her side and I was doing it on my side and she had some folks that she was working with in community. And I had mine, you know, but we had good. It was good. Yeah. But I don't think we got much training. I mean, I think it was just like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go for it. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So let's see, what else about Response. I guess what was your, well, what big projects or what projects were you proud of in both Peace Corps and within Response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that the most lasting project with my Peace Corps El Salvador was the reforestation. And I mean, I always feel that way about any trees that I've planted in my life. You know, it's just that that's like if you want to feel good about yourself, you go back there and like ten or twenty years and be like, OK. But so doing that work like reforesting. And like working with the community on like doing like community events up there and sort of like reclaiming in a way that space for the community was something that I really liked. I felt good about. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For that one, did you have to write a grant or how did you get the community to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.446657494362292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go for it. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So let's see, what else about Response. I guess what was your, well, what big projects or what projects were you proud of in both Peace Corps and within Response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that the most lasting project with my Peace Corps El Salvador was the reforestation. And I mean, I always feel that way about any trees that I've planted in my life. You know, it's just that that's like if you want to feel good about yourself, you go back there and like ten or twenty years and be like, OK. But so doing that work like reforesting. And like working with the community on like doing like community events up there and sort of like reclaiming in a way that space for the community was something that I really liked. I felt good about. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For that one, did you have to write a grant or how did you get the community to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I know that the trees I remember getting the trees somewhere in Morazán and having them delivered. And I think that it was actually another nonprofit that had a tree nursery. I don't think I had to write a grant. I think that it was more just connecting this other nonprofit that had funding that had, you know I mean? It was just more about connecting these two. You know, I may have written a small grant, but I feel like now I did write a grant for a latrine project. Um. But I don't. No, I don't think I wrote a grant for the tree project. I think it was more just connection with available trees that needed to be planted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Panama?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9844410073556813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, in Panama, it was, you know, I really. I don't even know how to feel proud of it or not. But I mean, I was just it was really like it was so sweet working with those schools. And I felt really good about. That was like the right amount of teaching for me too, was to go for, you know what I mean, like to do a lesson, you know, and kind of like an hour or two, you know, with each group for a week and not necessarily like doing over and over again. That was just a really sweet project to work on. Um, yeah, and we did some good tree planting in Panama too. There was like a lot of flooding along the Rio Sapo. Well, no, it wasn't the Rio Sapo. But what was the river? Rio Sapo was in El Salvador. Anyway. But in the river valley, we did some good tree planting there. And we did a lot of, you know, I don't know if you did any reforestation stuff. But we like started these with, you know, like you have the bags and you do the tree, you know, like it was like, so those were sweet projects to work on too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We planted trees once and uh, some guy came up to me. He's like, don't worry about the radiation. I was like, what radiation? And this is in Moldova. And they were like, we tested the land. It was perfectly safe and OK to plant trees. I'm like, alright, I'm going to listen to you and going to plant these trees. Did that for the whole afternoon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take a long shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the last thing you want to hear. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll tell you more about that later. Um, OK, so let's see. Now these up and coming questions will be for both of your services, so you can either answer both or answer one or the other. Um, let's see. Did you have any regrets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2049344526174237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take a long shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the last thing you want to hear. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll tell you more about that later. Um, OK, so let's see. Now these up and coming questions will be for both of your services, so you can either answer both or answer one or the other. Um, let's see. Did you have any regrets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I wish I would have been a better advocate for myself at the beginning in El Salvador when I knew things weren't working. I was just sort of like, I could have been a better advocate for myself. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, let's see. I mean, obviously, you learned a lot of lessons throughout both your services. Could you tell me some of the important lessons that you learned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.449927169574915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the last thing you want to hear. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll tell you more about that later. Um, OK, so let's see. Now these up and coming questions will be for both of your services, so you can either answer both or answer one or the other. Um, let's see. Did you have any regrets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I wish I would have been a better advocate for myself at the beginning in El Salvador when I knew things weren't working. I was just sort of like, I could have been a better advocate for myself. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, let's see. I mean, obviously, you learned a lot of lessons throughout both your services. Could you tell me some of the important lessons that you learned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean I learned a lot about the importance of community and relationship building the importance of that. I think that's something that I take with me now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7221412995276837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I wish I would have been a better advocate for myself at the beginning in El Salvador when I knew things weren't working. I was just sort of like, I could have been a better advocate for myself. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, let's see. I mean, obviously, you learned a lot of lessons throughout both your services. Could you tell me some of the important lessons that you learned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean I learned a lot about the importance of community and relationship building the importance of that. I think that's something that I take with me now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it fit nicely with sort of things that I was doing. And so, yeah, I think I was sort of in this path and then it kind of helped me keep going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you do now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0246014439196482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean I learned a lot about the importance of community and relationship building the importance of that. I think that's something that I take with me now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it fit nicely with sort of things that I was doing. And so, yeah, I think I was sort of in this path and then it kind of helped me keep going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you do now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work for the city of Austin and I do community engagement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that worked out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.360668271021831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it fit nicely with sort of things that I was doing. And so, yeah, I think I was sort of in this path and then it kind of helped me keep going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you do now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work for the city of Austin and I do community engagement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that worked out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would you assess your service in the light of the three goals of the Peace Corps? Let's go with the first one to provide technical assistance where requested."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.622964745579812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work for the city of Austin and I do community engagement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that worked out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would you assess your service in the light of the three goals of the Peace Corps? Let's go with the first one to provide technical assistance where requested."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think that again, with my Response, I think I was able to provide more technical assistance. So that was a positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Number two, to promote better understanding of Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2382280809627306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think that again, with my Response, I think I was able to provide more technical assistance. So that was a positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Number two, to promote better understanding of Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that was helpful with my service in El Salvador. And so, so many people in El Salvador know someone or have a family member in the States and they were sending money, you know. And there's this like very like sort of skewed world view about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you teach them or what did they learn from you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5980312010697006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that was helpful with my service in El Salvador. And so, so many people in El Salvador know someone or have a family member in the States and they were sending money, you know. And there's this like very like sort of skewed world view about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you teach them or what did they learn from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, now that I said that, I'm like, I have no idea what they learned from me, but I mean, maybe just learning a little bit. I mean, and also, I think too maybe for me, but also, like I said, my parents came to visit and I think that was impactful on my community. Like even more like, I don't know if they thought that I didn't have parents or, you know, it was so interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Saw your family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9978124456330004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you teach them or what did they learn from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, now that I said that, I'm like, I have no idea what they learned from me, but I mean, maybe just learning a little bit. I mean, and also, I think too maybe for me, but also, like I said, my parents came to visit and I think that was impactful on my community. Like even more like, I don't know if they thought that I didn't have parents or, you know, it was so interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Saw your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think seeing my family and like, there was just sort of a. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family do when they were visiting you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3309027173700003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, now that I said that, I'm like, I have no idea what they learned from me, but I mean, maybe just learning a little bit. I mean, and also, I think too maybe for me, but also, like I said, my parents came to visit and I think that was impactful on my community. Like even more like, I don't know if they thought that I didn't have parents or, you know, it was so interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Saw your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think seeing my family and like, there was just sort of a. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family do when they were visiting you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, um. We stayed with my initial host family from training, which was really sweet. They were so sweet. And then they came and they stayed in my community for a couple of nights. That's when I was living with Rosa. And, you know, I mean, it was like a lot of just like walking around and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seeing the things, your life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7010030193000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think seeing my family and like, there was just sort of a. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family do when they were visiting you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, um. We stayed with my initial host family from training, which was really sweet. They were so sweet. And then they came and they stayed in my community for a couple of nights. That's when I was living with Rosa. And, you know, I mean, it was like a lot of just like walking around and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seeing the things, your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. So that was really nice that they were willing to do that. And then we went to like a hotel that was kind of in the area. Um, yeah, I mean, that was kind of it. But so they did a couple of nights of like, you know, I mean, then it was rustic. I mean, it was all dirt walls and dirt floors. And, you know, not like, it's pretty different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of food do they eat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.112225577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, um. We stayed with my initial host family from training, which was really sweet. They were so sweet. And then they came and they stayed in my community for a couple of nights. That's when I was living with Rosa. And, you know, I mean, it was like a lot of just like walking around and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seeing the things, your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. So that was really nice that they were willing to do that. And then we went to like a hotel that was kind of in the area. Um, yeah, I mean, that was kind of it. But so they did a couple of nights of like, you know, I mean, then it was rustic. I mean, it was all dirt walls and dirt floors. And, you know, not like, it's pretty different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of food do they eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken and beans and rice. I mean, and tortilla. That was pretty much, this was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Common thing that you ate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.56913953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. So that was really nice that they were willing to do that. And then we went to like a hotel that was kind of in the area. Um, yeah, I mean, that was kind of it. But so they did a couple of nights of like, you know, I mean, then it was rustic. I mean, it was all dirt walls and dirt floors. And, you know, not like, it's pretty different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of food do they eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken and beans and rice. I mean, and tortilla. That was pretty much, this was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Common thing that you ate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when I was on my own, that was another thing. I was able to cook more for myself, which was nice. I mean, I still eat a lot of beans and rice, but um, but yeah, it was great. I mean, to like, have a little diversity in my diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go back to being a vegetarian when you came back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0768217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken and beans and rice. I mean, and tortilla. That was pretty much, this was the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Common thing that you ate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when I was on my own, that was another thing. I was able to cook more for myself, which was nice. I mean, I still eat a lot of beans and rice, but um, but yeah, it was great. I mean, to like, have a little diversity in my diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go back to being a vegetarian when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh uh. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps changed that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.640913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when I was on my own, that was another thing. I was able to cook more for myself, which was nice. I mean, I still eat a lot of beans and rice, but um, but yeah, it was great. I mean, to like, have a little diversity in my diet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go back to being a vegetarian when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh uh. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps changed that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, Peace Corps changed that for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So to promote better understanding of other people by Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.15657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh uh. Yeah. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps changed that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, Peace Corps changed that for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So to promote better understanding of other people by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I've done a few. Like when I first came back, I did several kind of third goal events, like going and talking to Spanish classes or, you know, in different high schools and middle schools. And then in my last job with the city, I would do these like elementary career days and go and talk about the Peace Corps as a career. But I don't know. Yeah, and not as much. Um, I think when I was there, I mean, the people that I know, who know me, I think were influenced, but as far as like a general broader. I don't know that as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. When you when you got back. Well, when you got back the first time and the second time, how was America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8970000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I've done a few. Like when I first came back, I did several kind of third goal events, like going and talking to Spanish classes or, you know, in different high schools and middle schools. And then in my last job with the city, I would do these like elementary career days and go and talk about the Peace Corps as a career. But I don't know. Yeah, and not as much. Um, I think when I was there, I mean, the people that I know, who know me, I think were influenced, but as far as like a general broader. I don't know that as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. When you when you got back. Well, when you got back the first time and the second time, how was America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So coming back from Panama. Like so when I was, again, I was like in like emotional turmoil or whatever for like the couple of months that I was like, I was probably in the States for like two months or something before I was just like, OK, I'm done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And coming back. When I got back here to Austin was like, I definitely had some pretty intense reverse culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Panama or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So coming back from Panama. Like so when I was, again, I was like in like emotional turmoil or whatever for like the couple of months that I was like, I was probably in the States for like two months or something before I was just like, OK, I'm done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And coming back. When I got back here to Austin was like, I definitely had some pretty intense reverse culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Panama or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Panama, yeah, like when I was like done done. So it was really weird. It was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things did you go through?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Panama, yeah, like when I was like done done. So it was really weird. It was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things did you go through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the thing with like going in and just being like, disgusted, like just disgusted by the money. Like, just like what you know, it just felt so obscene. And like I remember, I mean, I feel like this is a common thing too. But I remember like going into Whole Foods and I was like going to make dinner for a friend. I needed three ingredients and I was just like just paralyzed almost. And I like grabbed an employee and I was like, these are the three items on my list, like I need you to take me to these. And he kind of like laughed at me a little bit and I was like, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being serious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like, I really need you to just do this for me. Yeah. And then one day, you know, like months in like I, you know, like I had found a job, you know, and I was like driving home from work like on MoPac. And I was just like realizing like, oh, like that just feels normal now. And I was like, OK, like I was recognizing the shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the thing with like going in and just being like, disgusted, like just disgusted by the money. Like, just like what you know, it just felt so obscene. And like I remember, I mean, I feel like this is a common thing too. But I remember like going into Whole Foods and I was like going to make dinner for a friend. I needed three ingredients and I was just like just paralyzed almost. And I like grabbed an employee and I was like, these are the three items on my list, like I need you to take me to these. And he kind of like laughed at me a little bit and I was like, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being serious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like, I really need you to just do this for me. Yeah. And then one day, you know, like months in like I, you know, like I had found a job, you know, and I was like driving home from work like on MoPac. And I was just like realizing like, oh, like that just feels normal now. And I was like, OK, like I was recognizing the shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that was probably in, I don't know, maybe January or February or something. Five or six months, for sure. But it was also like kind of awesome. It was like bad. But it was also kind of awesome of just being like all of a sudden, all rules are off the table and it was just like, you know, I didn't know what anything was. Like I remember being with my mom and being like, can I leave my purse? Like, I don't know what I can do and what I can't do. Like nothing. And I was like dating and like, I didn't know any the dating rules, you know what I mean? And it was just like very much just like everything just felt like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too well-integrated in Peace Corps. Now you came back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00103:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like, I really need you to just do this for me. Yeah. And then one day, you know, like months in like I, you know, like I had found a job, you know, and I was like driving home from work like on MoPac. And I was just like realizing like, oh, like that just feels normal now. And I was like, OK, like I was recognizing the shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that was probably in, I don't know, maybe January or February or something. Five or six months, for sure. But it was also like kind of awesome. It was like bad. But it was also kind of awesome of just being like all of a sudden, all rules are off the table and it was just like, you know, I didn't know what anything was. Like I remember being with my mom and being like, can I leave my purse? Like, I don't know what I can do and what I can't do. Like nothing. And I was like dating and like, I didn't know any the dating rules, you know what I mean? And it was just like very much just like everything just felt like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too well-integrated in Peace Corps. Now you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was, though. I mean, like for real, it was just like everything just felt. I mean, I had no like, you know, like, I didn't have good like social context clues for lots of things. And so I mean, it was like kind of exciting and, you know, take like a baby. It's like good and bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, last question. If you had any advice for current or future volunteers, what would you tell them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.913579793788546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a pleasure, sir. It’s a pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s begin . . . not at the beginning, because there was a beginning before this, but does the date 9 April 1959 mean anything to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, that was one of the happiest days of my life. That was the day on which we all congregated officially as the U.S. first astronaut group. We had been through a selection process obviously previous to that time. But that was the day we first showed up officially as the first astronauts in the United States, back at Langley Field, Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Langley? Why Langley, I wonder."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] had become NASA in a great, big hurried turnaround, as you recall. The program of astronaut selection and training basically was run by the people who worked from Langley. Originally, of course we all reported to Washington. That was where the initiation, the introduction, and the pre-selection, and all that sort of routine went on. Then, as you know, we had physicals elsewhere in the country. But once the selection was made we reported to those people at Langley Field, which was kind of neat for me because I was already stationed in Norfolk in a job I didn’t like in the first place. I was finally taken out of airplanes and put behind a desk for the first time in a bunch of years. . . So it was a really easy trip for us. We . . . didn’t even have to move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your journey to get there took you through test pilot school, took you through combat experience, took you through a bit of everything, didn’t it? Why was it that NASA decided to pick test pilots, of all things, to fly the first space mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 36.90531899678181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughing] I wondered first of all where these six incompetent guys came from. Seriously, it was not a surprise because several of them had been involved in the preliminary selection process, so I was generally familiar with their backgrounds. Glenn, of course, I had known before; Schirra I had known before because of our Navy connections. So I knew there was a lot of talent there, and I knew that it was going to be a tough fight to win the prize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was competitive at that time between the seven of you, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was an interesting situation because, as I say, I was friendly with several of them. And on the other hand, realizing that I was now competing with these guys, so there was always a sense of caution I suppose—particularly talking about technical things. Now in the bar everything changed, but in talking about technical things there was always a sense of maybe a little bit of reservation, not being totally frank with each other, because there was this very strong sense of competition . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about your teammates, and I’d like to go back over that. There was competition among the seven of you, wasn’t there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was an interesting situation getting together with the seven originals for the first time. And, of course, having known some of them before, with the Navy connections, but yet all of a sudden realizing that here was competition. There were seven guys competing for the first job, whatever that turned out to be. Seven guys going for that one job. So on the one hand there was a sense of friendliness and maybe some support, but on the other hand, “Hey, I hope the rest of you guys are happy because I’m going to make the first flight.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were about to move into a whole new world, or a new non-world, up there in weightless space of which nothing was known. Didn’t that frighten you just a little bit? What were your thoughts about moving into a new environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 27.414862545101187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh very important; absolutely, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How important was it? Did you say anything publicly, or did you just nurse your wounds and get ready to fly again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you know, we had a lot of differences of opinion about things in the program. Not only the design but in some of the scheduling, but most of that was kept pretty quiet. Most of it was resolved, and very little of that came out in public. It was always . . . sort of a joint decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, as time went on you started lobbying for another flight in Mercury, but then Mercury was cut a little short because there was the pressure of something else, wasn’t there? Can you discuss those pressures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You are not surprised that I wanted to fly again, are you, Mr. Neal?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.426810398710643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Poulos, I think. Victor Poulos. The doctor knew and the nurse knew, but nobody else knew . . . So, Victor Poulos checks in and they run the operation . . . it’s not that traumatic, obviously, because after about a day I was out of there. Of course it was obvious when you look at the big ball of stuff over my ear when I get back home. But NASA started looking at me. And several months, several months, several months went by, and finally said, “Yes, all the tests show that you no longer are affected by this Ménière’s disease.” So there I was, having made the right decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we’d better backtrack a little here, because obviously this is going to bring you into direct discussion about a fellow named Deke [Donald K.] Slayton, and we haven’t established the fact that Deke, like you, was knocked out of flying. So let’s go back over a little of that, particularly because that happened back in the Mercury days when Deke was getting ready to fly, and I wonder, when you first heard [about Deke]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke had already been assigned to follow John. . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And suddenly he got bumped from his Mercury flight. That was a heart condition, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a lot of controversy about that because it was a heart murmur or a palpitation, some irregularity, but one which was not obvious. It was not a continuous kind of thing. It was not as if he was getting ready for cardiac arrest or anything like that. It was just occasionally he’d have a little twitch down there. . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . It was a real blow. I wonder what your reaction was to it at the time, and if you can give us a little background on it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.401783872444202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think yeah sort of, Chief of the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a job eventually you wound up with, by title."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, things were changed around, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you went into Gemini all of a sudden there were two of the seven who had been grounded, Deke and Al. What a team. How did it come about that you wound up becoming Chief of the Astronaut Office while Deke, by this time, had assumed quite some power as Head of Astronaut Affairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I’d indicated earlier, I decided to fight this Ménière’s to stay with NASA. And during the time period when I was grounded, I could become very, very useful in the astronaut training business. I suppose that we really had grown if you’d consider the number of chaps that were involved in the simulators, for example, in the suiting procedures, taking care of the suits and so on, direct supporting the facilities for the astronauts; there were really quite a number of people involved. So they decided to make it a separate division. Deke was the head of that division, and I was given the job specifically of the care and feeding of these astronauts, in charge of their training, helping Deke with crew assignments, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Deke primarily that got you the job, or was it just the fact that you had all the qualifications? How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.751418206370648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it was just a matter of saying, “What do we need?” When I became grounded and informed NASA I was going to stay there, then we had two guys that really . . . either one of us could have done the job. One little difference I think, perhaps that I knew that somehow something was going to happen soon with me. I was either going to get the ear fixed or I was gone. With Deke, I think he was more or less resigned at that stage to the heart murmur business, and the medics kept giving him a bad time about that. So I think it was really that Deke probably was more of a long-term commitment than in my particular case, so I think that’s really why it was established. You know we just talked it over with [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.] and Gilruth and they sort of agreed that I was a good selection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You two had quite a reputation for running a very tight ship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course Deke and I were both mad because we were grounded. We’d both been training as astronauts. We knew where every skeleton was in the whole process, and we just wouldn’t let those guys get away with anything. We knew what they had to do, we knew how they had to do it, and if they weren’t doing it then we would bring them in and tell them about it. Maybe I was a little more forceful than I would have been normally, because of being grounded. I believe they called me The Icy Commander or some “friendly” term like that. . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Steely-eyed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew where all the skeletons were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that, in a very peculiar way from a NASA point of view, perhaps it was for the betterment of the space program that you and Deke were both doing what you were doing at the time you were doing it. Did you ever think of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 29.723798007078496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course Deke and I were both mad because we were grounded. We’d both been training as astronauts. We knew where every skeleton was in the whole process, and we just wouldn’t let those guys get away with anything. We knew what they had to do, we knew how they had to do it, and if they weren’t doing it then we would bring them in and tell them about it. Maybe I was a little more forceful than I would have been normally, because of being grounded. I believe they called me The Icy Commander or some “friendly” term like that. . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Steely-eyed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew where all the skeletons were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that, in a very peculiar way from a NASA point of view, perhaps it was for the betterment of the space program that you and Deke were both doing what you were doing at the time you were doing it. Did you ever think of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think certainly there was a need for coordination, there was a need for representation at the executive level. Other chaps could have done the job perhaps equally as well or perhaps even better. But it seemed like we turned out some pretty good crews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think anybody could fault your selection of crews, Alan. All the way through the Gemini Program and finally on into Apollo. And it was during the time of Apollo by which time you finally located through Stafford’s ministrations, as you described earlier, a way to treat the Ménière’s syndrome in Los Angeles. Suddenly the skies opened again for Alan Shepard. Or did they? You had to get back into the program, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 24.03264578075482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were delighted, we were delighted! But there was also a little bit of a gulp in there, because he put a time cap on the deal. I don’t think that any of us thought that we would be able to make it . . . (that was 1961) within 8½ years. . . [We were] delighted but . . . maybe the President is a little enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve finally got up to that point where we’re into Apollo, and what was your choice—your and Deke’s—what was your best bet as to which would be the first flight to make a manned landing on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose that we felt the schedule as it was laid out, after we rescheduled the Apollo 8 mission, I think that we felt that the missions 9 and 10 adequately demonstrated the lunar module’s capabilities, that we really deep down inside felt that we could make it. We had a very good possibility of making it on the first try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then along came 14. . . Because now you had picked your team and you had sweated out Apollo 13, and you were ready to fly. It must have been a big moment when you were ready, waiting for take-off."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.68975960487056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have at least been able to take a visual look. I would have pitched over and taken a visual look before and then made a decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fair enough. Well, we finally have you on the Moon. Mission accomplished. Or was it? Tell me about what you and Ed did on the Moon as you remember it. What were the highlights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… Of course the first feeling was one of a tremendous sense of accomplishment, I guess if you will. A tremendous sense of realizing that, “Hey, not too long ago I was grounded. Now I’m on the Moon.” There was that sense of self-satisfaction immediately. But then that went away, because we had a lot of work to do. But I’ll never forget that moment.\\n\\n Another moment which I will never forget is after Ed had followed me down and we had set out some of our equipment, taken the emergency samples, we had a few moments to look around, to look up in the black sky—a totally black sky, even though the Sun is shining on the surface it’s not reflected, there’s no diffusion, no reflection—a totally black sky and seeing another planet: planet Earth. Now planet Earth is only four times as large as the Moon, so you can really still put your thumb and your forefinger around it at that distance. So it makes it look beautiful; it makes it look lonely; it makes it look fragile. You think to yourself, just imagine that millions of people are living on that planet and don’t realize how fragile it is. I think this is a feeling everyone has had and expressed it in one fashion or another. That was an overwhelming feeling in seeing the beauty of the planet on the one hand but the fragility of it on the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being Alan Shepard, of course, shortly after that golden moment you decided to play a little golf."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t decide to play a little golf. That is a long story. I will not tell the whole story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what you think might be all right, because it is a very famous story and I’m sure a lot of people would like to hear your version of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.81673465153263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was designed to be a fun thing. Fortunately, it is still a fun thing. The makeshift club is with the U.S. Golf Association in their museum. There has been absolutely no commercialism. One company tried to say it was their golf ball, and we cut them off very quickly. So, it’s been just a totally fun thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And still is. Now some general questions, if we may. Well, I guess we’d better get you back from the Moon. We can’t just leave you up there. You played golf; now you closed the hatch and you came back. After that, it wasn’t too long thereafter that you finally decided you’d completed your run with NASA. You moved on to other fields."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as you recall, of course, the only scheduled missions were the Skylab missions. The crews were already assigned to the joint mission with the Soviets…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Including your friend Deke Slayton. Deke finally got his shot at it, didn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, we were so pleased. We were so pleased, bless his heart. Can you imagine having to learn to speak Russian to go into space? I mean, that is above and beyond the call of duty. But he did it. I’m not sure the Russians understood him, but he did it. We were really so pleased and so happy for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m remembering you were with me on television, because you were doing a job as a consultant, on-the-air talent when the landing was accomplished, and we were thinking, “My, Deke and Brand and Stafford, they all look great!” Little did we know that they had been dosed with nitric acid, was it? Do you remember after the fact that they had inhaled something or the other?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.907482946147367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as you recall, of course, the only scheduled missions were the Skylab missions. The crews were already assigned to the joint mission with the Soviets…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Including your friend Deke Slayton. Deke finally got his shot at it, didn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, we were so pleased. We were so pleased, bless his heart. Can you imagine having to learn to speak Russian to go into space? I mean, that is above and beyond the call of duty. But he did it. I’m not sure the Russians understood him, but he did it. We were really so pleased and so happy for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m remembering you were with me on television, because you were doing a job as a consultant, on-the-air talent when the landing was accomplished, and we were thinking, “My, Deke and Brand and Stafford, they all look great!” Little did we know that they had been dosed with nitric acid, was it? Do you remember after the fact that they had inhaled something or the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some kind of vapors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some vapors from the ejection system, and they were in kind of bad shape for a short while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.119425495719296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, we were so pleased. We were so pleased, bless his heart. Can you imagine having to learn to speak Russian to go into space? I mean, that is above and beyond the call of duty. But he did it. I’m not sure the Russians understood him, but he did it. We were really so pleased and so happy for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m remembering you were with me on television, because you were doing a job as a consultant, on-the-air talent when the landing was accomplished, and we were thinking, “My, Deke and Brand and Stafford, they all look great!” Little did we know that they had been dosed with nitric acid, was it? Do you remember after the fact that they had inhaled something or the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some kind of vapors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some vapors from the ejection system, and they were in kind of bad shape for a short while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve forgotten whether it was a leak or what happened. We can look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll forget it for now because it’s unimportant. That’s their flight; their stuff. General thoughts then. John Glenn is about to fly again. You and he are pretty close to the same age. I wonder what your thoughts are about John flying."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.021583884132552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some kind of vapors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some vapors from the ejection system, and they were in kind of bad shape for a short while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve forgotten whether it was a leak or what happened. We can look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll forget it for now because it’s unimportant. That’s their flight; their stuff. General thoughts then. John Glenn is about to fly again. You and he are pretty close to the same age. I wonder what your thoughts are about John flying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John is a couple of years older than I am; I believe he’s seventy-seven. But, I’ve been saying for years that the taxpayers didn’t get their money’s worth out of Glenn because he made one flight and immediately went into the Congress. And as a taxpayer, I objected to that. I’ve been telling John this for years and years. I called him up the other day after the announcement and I said, “John, I’m glad that you’re going to give me one more flight for my tax dollars!” [Laughter] I think it’s good, quite frankly.\\n\\n Obviously there are a lot of things about how weightlessness treats individuals, and the person’s reaction to weightlessness is both a function of the amount of exercise or lack thereof, their general physical conditioning, and the kind of things that one really needs to know if you’re going to be in a long-term mission. The more you find out, the better shape you’ll be in. So he’s a good data-point. He thinks he’s in pretty good shape, and he probably is. But his bones are still more brittle, obviously, and I’m sure that there will be some lessons learned even during that short period of time by looking at his general physical condition, before and after. I think it’s a good thing. I think we’ll learn something from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you’d like to fly again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.023982093480614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve forgotten whether it was a leak or what happened. We can look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll forget it for now because it’s unimportant. That’s their flight; their stuff. General thoughts then. John Glenn is about to fly again. You and he are pretty close to the same age. I wonder what your thoughts are about John flying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John is a couple of years older than I am; I believe he’s seventy-seven. But, I’ve been saying for years that the taxpayers didn’t get their money’s worth out of Glenn because he made one flight and immediately went into the Congress. And as a taxpayer, I objected to that. I’ve been telling John this for years and years. I called him up the other day after the announcement and I said, “John, I’m glad that you’re going to give me one more flight for my tax dollars!” [Laughter] I think it’s good, quite frankly.\\n\\n Obviously there are a lot of things about how weightlessness treats individuals, and the person’s reaction to weightlessness is both a function of the amount of exercise or lack thereof, their general physical conditioning, and the kind of things that one really needs to know if you’re going to be in a long-term mission. The more you find out, the better shape you’ll be in. So he’s a good data-point. He thinks he’s in pretty good shape, and he probably is. But his bones are still more brittle, obviously, and I’m sure that there will be some lessons learned even during that short period of time by looking at his general physical condition, before and after. I think it’s a good thing. I think we’ll learn something from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you’d like to fly again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course I would! Of course I would! Unfortunately I’m not in top health at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s just a subject of time. You’ve talked some here about NASA managers, but I’d kind of like to run down a little list with you, get some evaluation from you about some of these people we’ve been talking about. For example, Jim Webb."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.058500371102901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked Bob; I really did. Because Bob has been in the aviation business forever. And being right there at Langley, seeing him not every day but seeing him frequently, and talking to people who’d been with him in the old NACA days and what he had done, I mean just a remarkable, remarkable gentleman. I think that he was really sort of a hands-on kind of guy, too. I obviously appreciate his decision to let me make the first flight, but he never told me why he made that decision the way he did. I asked him several times over the years, and he always said, “Well, you were just the right man at the right time.” But I’m sure that he was very personally involved in that selection process. There were some suggestions from some of the other folks in the program that maybe he had made a mistake in the decision, that there might have been someone else who qualified better, but he did not change his mind. So he’s one of my heroes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Chris Kraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like Chris. I like Chris. You know, I guess we were really closer in the early days when he was a flight director and we were all in that little building down there at the Cape. I think I felt perhaps closer to him then. But you can see the decision-making process that he went through. And you knew that he was not making any sloppy decisions; his decisions were very well thought through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "George [M.] Low."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn’t know George that well. I never really worked directly with him … at that particular stage in the game. George came along later. Actually Deke worked with him more than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Wernher von Braun?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.509444856781001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like Chris. I like Chris. You know, I guess we were really closer in the early days when he was a flight director and we were all in that little building down there at the Cape. I think I felt perhaps closer to him then. But you can see the decision-making process that he went through. And you knew that he was not making any sloppy decisions; his decisions were very well thought through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "George [M.] Low."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn’t know George that well. I never really worked directly with him … at that particular stage in the game. George came along later. Actually Deke worked with him more than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Wernher von Braun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Wernher was an interesting guy. We never worked together too much. But I do remember him, as I’m sure the rest of the original seven, we had dinner at his house one night, him and Eberhard [F. M.] Rees, and we drove out to a little hillside where they’d built their own observatory. We took a look at the Moon through a telescope. Here you are with a great rocket scientist and he’s showing you what the Moon looks like through a telescope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems strange but, to the public at large, Bob Gilruth is kind of lost in limbo and Wernher von Braun stands in mind as one of the prime movers. I wonder what your reaction would be to that evaluation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.788272063090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn’t know George that well. I never really worked directly with him … at that particular stage in the game. George came along later. Actually Deke worked with him more than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Wernher von Braun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Wernher was an interesting guy. We never worked together too much. But I do remember him, as I’m sure the rest of the original seven, we had dinner at his house one night, him and Eberhard [F. M.] Rees, and we drove out to a little hillside where they’d built their own observatory. We took a look at the Moon through a telescope. Here you are with a great rocket scientist and he’s showing you what the Moon looks like through a telescope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems strange but, to the public at large, Bob Gilruth is kind of lost in limbo and Wernher von Braun stands in mind as one of the prime movers. I wonder what your reaction would be to that evaluation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s true. I think that Gilruth’s entire life had been and was dedicated to aviation and space. And he basically was an engineer. I think that perhaps von Braun obviously was an engineer but I think von Braun had been involved in political aspects over in Germany; where maybe it was a matter of survival. And I think he dealt with the public more easily than Gilruth did. It came more naturally to him. As a result I think that in the final analysis, the general public knew more about von Braun than they did about Gilruth. But those of us on the inside, particularly the manned space aspect of it, owe a lot more to Gilruth than we do to Wernher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t you think probably that is because Wernher was always a salesman of ideas, that he was really out selling the concept of the lunar mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.098080070100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Wernher was an interesting guy. We never worked together too much. But I do remember him, as I’m sure the rest of the original seven, we had dinner at his house one night, him and Eberhard [F. M.] Rees, and we drove out to a little hillside where they’d built their own observatory. We took a look at the Moon through a telescope. Here you are with a great rocket scientist and he’s showing you what the Moon looks like through a telescope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems strange but, to the public at large, Bob Gilruth is kind of lost in limbo and Wernher von Braun stands in mind as one of the prime movers. I wonder what your reaction would be to that evaluation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s true. I think that Gilruth’s entire life had been and was dedicated to aviation and space. And he basically was an engineer. I think that perhaps von Braun obviously was an engineer but I think von Braun had been involved in political aspects over in Germany; where maybe it was a matter of survival. And I think he dealt with the public more easily than Gilruth did. It came more naturally to him. As a result I think that in the final analysis, the general public knew more about von Braun than they did about Gilruth. But those of us on the inside, particularly the manned space aspect of it, owe a lot more to Gilruth than we do to Wernher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t you think probably that is because Wernher was always a salesman of ideas, that he was really out selling the concept of the lunar mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. He almost felt that he had to. Maybe he felt the same way we did. Yes, it was a great idea, but he might have been concerned a little bit with the pressure of the schedule. That may have been the reason; I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here’s a question that comes right out of the gang at Houston: What are some of the worst things that happened to you after your selection as an astronaut?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.442311189000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s true. I think that Gilruth’s entire life had been and was dedicated to aviation and space. And he basically was an engineer. I think that perhaps von Braun obviously was an engineer but I think von Braun had been involved in political aspects over in Germany; where maybe it was a matter of survival. And I think he dealt with the public more easily than Gilruth did. It came more naturally to him. As a result I think that in the final analysis, the general public knew more about von Braun than they did about Gilruth. But those of us on the inside, particularly the manned space aspect of it, owe a lot more to Gilruth than we do to Wernher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don’t you think probably that is because Wernher was always a salesman of ideas, that he was really out selling the concept of the lunar mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. He almost felt that he had to. Maybe he felt the same way we did. Yes, it was a great idea, but he might have been concerned a little bit with the pressure of the schedule. That may have been the reason; I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here’s a question that comes right out of the gang at Houston: What are some of the worst things that happened to you after your selection as an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "…This was not a fault of the system, but obviously being grounded was the worst thing that has ever happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were running the Astronaut Office, what was the most difficult thing that you ran into there? Do you remember anything as being particularly difficult during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.824790210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. He almost felt that he had to. Maybe he felt the same way we did. Yes, it was a great idea, but he might have been concerned a little bit with the pressure of the schedule. That may have been the reason; I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here’s a question that comes right out of the gang at Houston: What are some of the worst things that happened to you after your selection as an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "…This was not a fault of the system, but obviously being grounded was the worst thing that has ever happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were running the Astronaut Office, what was the most difficult thing that you ran into there? Do you remember anything as being particularly difficult during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… Let me say that while I was head of the Astronaut Office I was responsible for the care and feeding of very enthusiastic, very intelligent, very dedicated, and a motivated bunch of guys. And there were jealousies in the ranks, people being jealous of so-and-so particularly being chosen for a flight or for a backup position or a support crew position. There were instances where really harsh discussions were taken. So to straight things out I’d say, “Look, Deke and I are running this program and this is the way it’s going to be run. We’re sorry, but eventually you will be treated fairly.” There were some that still feel they weren’t, but a small percentage of them hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on it, what do you think now about the\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine contract? Good, bad, or indifferent? You don’t have to answer that one if you don’t choose to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0861000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know that’s a very difficult question for me to answer because I’m not involved in the process anymore. I think one has to look at the flights which are being made, at the performance of the crews, the number of delays because of mechanical problems, and that sort of thing. And using these criteria, I would say they’re running a good ship; I would say they’re running a successful program. There have been obviously no errors which have resulted in loss of life. They have used the crew to correct many problems. The remarkable repair of the Hubble telescope . . . of course that was some years ago. But these are the kind of things which indicate to me that they’re doing a pretty good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Proving what you’re saying, I’m thinking now I can’t remember a single case of disaster occasioned by pilot error, which speaks pretty well for the group, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course today they’re now into things other than pilots. They’re into the broad gamut of flight crews, women, scientists, payload specialists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when you consider the fact that you’re still doing basic research into the operation of the Shuttle as a shell—as a vehicle—that’s probably not true anymore. You’ve probably reached the operational stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pretty close to it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4290000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course today they’re now into things other than pilots. They’re into the broad gamut of flight crews, women, scientists, payload specialists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when you consider the fact that you’re still doing basic research into the operation of the Shuttle as a shell—as a vehicle—that’s probably not true anymore. You’ve probably reached the operational stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pretty close to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recently, I guess it was the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n that flew its 26th mission for one spacecraft: a remarkable circumstance."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when you consider the fact that you’re still doing basic research into the operation of the Shuttle as a shell—as a vehicle—that’s probably not true anymore. You’ve probably reached the operational stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pretty close to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recently, I guess it was the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n that flew its 26th mission for one spacecraft: a remarkable circumstance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I guess you could say they’re operational, but still it’s a remarkable record."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alan, I’ve asked an awful lot of questions both from my own point of view and those in Houston. It seems to me it’s high time we let you say anything that you’d like, if there’s something that we haven’t asked that should have been asked. If so, fire for effect."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn’t have to apologize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not apologizing. I’m making sure that somebody watching this knows very well that that was pure Alan Shepard and not Roy Neal instigating a thought or two, or not NASA instigating a thought or two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They couldn’t accuse you of that, Roy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this is a NASA tape that we’re making. And I just want to make darn sure that the people watching it that that came right out of the blue and was pure you. That’s all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s the truth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Alan, thank you very much. It’s been a real pleasure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00560:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They couldn’t accuse you of that, Roy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this is a NASA tape that we’re making. And I just want to make darn sure that the people watching it that that came right out of the blue and was pure you. That’s all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s the truth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Alan, thank you very much. It’s been a real pleasure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You think you got enough?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we don’t we’ll let the powers that be tell us that we ought to come back and do it again sometime."}]}