[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That takes time. Takes a long time. That’s the scariest part of this whole upheaval, is the timing. They waited so late from the time this Administration started to pick an Administrator, then to come out with what they wanted to do with NASA. They waited so late now that there’s so little time between now and the end of the program and the end of this fiscal year, there’s not enough time to get redirected and get new contracts in place. So there’s going to be a big disruption in the agency.

[Assistant] A lot of challenges before you move on to your next adventure.

[User] There’s a simple solution, but I don’t know that anybody’ll do it.

[Assistant] Do you want to share that with us?

[User] My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do.

[Assistant] Well, we’ll watch for that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There’s a simple solution, but I don’t know that anybody’ll do it.

[Assistant] Do you want to share that with us?

[User] My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do.

[Assistant] Well, we’ll watch for that.

[User] But I’m not king.

[Assistant] Yes, but as you mentioned, you’ve had really good fate, so you just never know what’s going to come around the next turn.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My answer is to stretch the current Shuttle manifest out. It would be real easy to do, just to keep the workforce in place, and keep the expertise in place, before you lose it. It would be a pretty simple matter to stretch the manifest out for like another year and buy the time you need to get this new vision focused and get contracts in place. It could be done with the stroke of a pen by just extending the current contracts. There’s mechanisms already in the contracts to do that. If I was king for a day that’s what I’d do.

[Assistant] Well, we’ll watch for that.

[User] But I’m not king.

[Assistant] Yes, but as you mentioned, you’ve had really good fate, so you just never know what’s going to come around the next turn.

[User] Never know. Never know. Yes, it’s true.

[Assistant] Well, thank you so much for coming in as often as you have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hello.

[Assistant] First of all, thank you for agreeing to share your Peace Corps story.

[User] My pleasure.

[Assistant] And before we begin, let our listeners know where are you from and where did you come from? And you can tell us more about your family or your educational background before Peace Corps.

[User] Well, I was born in Stuttgart, Germany, because my dad was in the Army there, but only lived there for about six months. Otherwise, I grew up pretty much completely in the Chicago area, mostly in the suburb of Arlington Heights. I've got two younger sisters. I went to elementary, middle, high school there in Illinois and then went to Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, for four years for a bachelor's, for a liberal arts degree. I majored in psychology. And Grinnell is a very progressive, social justice oriented school. And I think even before that, I already had a very much of a social justice bend. But Grinnell certainly nourishes that in people. So while I was there my senior year, I applied for Peace Corps.

[Assistant] How did you find out about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My pleasure.

[Assistant] And before we begin, let our listeners know where are you from and where did you come from? And you can tell us more about your family or your educational background before Peace Corps.

[User] Well, I was born in Stuttgart, Germany, because my dad was in the Army there, but only lived there for about six months. Otherwise, I grew up pretty much completely in the Chicago area, mostly in the suburb of Arlington Heights. I've got two younger sisters. I went to elementary, middle, high school there in Illinois and then went to Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, for four years for a bachelor's, for a liberal arts degree. I majored in psychology. And Grinnell is a very progressive, social justice oriented school. And I think even before that, I already had a very much of a social justice bend. But Grinnell certainly nourishes that in people. So while I was there my senior year, I applied for Peace Corps.

[Assistant] How did you find out about the Peace Corps?

[User] Hmm. There must have been a recruiter that came to campus or something. I don't remember for sure but, or something in the career development office where I went in to supposed to be writing resumes. And I knew I wanted to go to grad school, but I knew I didn't want to go right away. I'd had 16 years straight of education and I wanted a break. I wanted to do something else for a while and then specialize. That's why I got a liberal arts degree thinking, okay, I just want a very general education background first, and then in grad school I'll specialize in a real specific field. So Peace Corps was a perfect two year interlude.

[Assistant] So what was the impetus behind you actually picking up the phone or picking up the paperwork in order to apply?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Hmm. It was a lot of pages, I remember, of application. Oh, yeah. Pages and pages of things to fill out. And then they wanted, yeah, a medical background to make sure that I was healthy and ready for this. It was funny, my senior year in college as I was applying, they said, oh, well, we might want to send you. I was partway through the application process, you know, as my senior year of school was going on. And they said, well, if we want to send you as an education volunteer, as a math and science teacher, you need more math. I said, um, I've already had calculus and everything else. I can't imagine I'm going to go to a third world country and be teaching something more advanced than that. And they said, oh no, if you are going to go as a math teacher. I had a lot of science already, but they said you need more math.

So they said I had to take linear algebra and differential equations my senior year. I was a second semester senior. I was like, um, I'm really not very into this, you know. I really don't think I need this. I was not motivated. So I eventually dropped it, I think, to a pass fail or something. And that still satisfied Peace Corps that I'd technically taken it, but sure enough, yeah, I got to my village and I was teaching basic arithmetic, not differential equations, and it was kind of funny.

[Assistant] So back then, Peace Corps actually made recommendations for your education, wow.

[User] They did.

[Assistant] And so what was, um, after you've submitted your application, how long did it take for you to actually receive a response?

[User] Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process.

[Assistant] Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They did.

[Assistant] And so what was, um, after you've submitted your application, how long did it take for you to actually receive a response?

[User] Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process.

[Assistant] Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?

[User] I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it.

[Assistant] So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm. I am sure I had it before graduation, so it was sometime during my senior year, during that same nine month process.

[Assistant] Okay, about nine months. And when you were given your country of service, how did you feel? Were you excited, were you concerned?

[User] I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it.

[Assistant] So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was, I admit, a tiny bit disappointed because they had first told me I would be going to a country without malaria. And the countries at that point were Vanuatu in the South Pacific, way out past Australia out there, and one other tropical island up in the middle of an ocean somewhere. Tuvalu, I think. And Lesotho. And so I'm like, oh, most likely I'm going to some exotic tropical island with palm trees and beaches and all that. And, you know, because those were the countries that they'd narrowed it down to for me. And so then when I actually got my invitation to serve and it was for Lesotho, I'm like, oh, I am not going to a tropical island. There are no beaches. There's not even a coastline. There's no palm trees like, oh well, oh well. So I didn't even know, I'd never heard of Lesotho, did not know how to pronounce it.

[Assistant] So you had no choice in the matter, in terms of where you served?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?

[User] Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?

[Assistant] What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And so now here you are, you've received your invitation. But actually, let me back it up. While you were applying and even after, how did your family or your friends respond to your decision to skip graduate school in order to serve in the Peace Corps?

[User] Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?

[Assistant] What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?

[User] Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting.

[Assistant] So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm. People thought I was a little crazy, um. A few of my closest friends who knew me well and had very similar value systems were really supportive. My parents were a little nervous, I think. You know, it's really, really far to send your firstborn and Africa sounds scary. You know, most people have never been there, don't know much about it. And yeah, I know my mom was worried at least. My dad maybe too, but he doesn't show it as much as my mom did. And plenty of friends, yeah, thought it was pretty crazy. They're like, why don't you get a job where you'll actually make money or something like that?

[Assistant] What was it about the Peace Corps that made them reluctant, I guess, to support your decision?

[User] Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting.

[Assistant] So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?

[User] Training.

[Assistant] Yeah, training and all of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. I guess just the overall idea that people have that it's dangerous and hard to do, which, it's definitely hard, can be dangerous certainly. So those are somewhat valid points, but I guess that's more of a deterrent for other people than it is for me. I've always liked, in some ways I think I intentionally do things outside the box, because staying inside the box can be kind of boring and limiting.

[Assistant] So nine months, you finally received your invitation. How soon after that were you, I guess, on your way to your Peace Corps service or?

[User] Training.

[Assistant] Yeah, training and all of that?

[User] Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Why is that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Training.

[Assistant] Yeah, training and all of that?

[User] Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Why is that?

[User]
Well, I had studied Spanish through middle school, high school, college, had studied in Colombia, had studied in Spain, was fairly fluent enough. Um, certainly spoke Spanish better than I spoke Sesotho, like most people, because nobody speaks Sesotho if you don't live there. Um, but again, for medical reasons they had limited me to non-malarial countries. So I was like, okay, we're not going to use my Spanish skills. So it was a little bit odd. But, um, see I had, I'm sure when I was graduating college I already knew what I was doing. So otherwise it would have been very scary to graduate college and say, I don't know where I'm going next, you know? So sometime during my senior year I must have had my invitation to serve and accepted.

But then there was about an eight, six month lag? Graduation would have been in May or June. And based on the Lesotho school calendar, their training schedule was that training started around Thanksgiving. So I had the, the summer and the part of the fall before I was going to report for training.

[Assistant] And where was your initial meeting with your future group, service group, and the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, if there's one thing I guess I could back up and mention, I was really surprised they weren't sending me to a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Why is that?

[User]
Well, I had studied Spanish through middle school, high school, college, had studied in Colombia, had studied in Spain, was fairly fluent enough. Um, certainly spoke Spanish better than I spoke Sesotho, like most people, because nobody speaks Sesotho if you don't live there. Um, but again, for medical reasons they had limited me to non-malarial countries. So I was like, okay, we're not going to use my Spanish skills. So it was a little bit odd. But, um, see I had, I'm sure when I was graduating college I already knew what I was doing. So otherwise it would have been very scary to graduate college and say, I don't know where I'm going next, you know? So sometime during my senior year I must have had my invitation to serve and accepted.

But then there was about an eight, six month lag? Graduation would have been in May or June. And based on the Lesotho school calendar, their training schedule was that training started around Thanksgiving. So I had the, the summer and the part of the fall before I was going to report for training.

[Assistant] And where was your initial meeting with your future group, service group, and the Peace Corps?

[User] We started in Atlanta. There was about a week there. It was called Crest, C-R-E-S-T, at the time.

[Assistant] Do you know what it stood for?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We started in Atlanta. There was about a week there. It was called Crest, C-R-E-S-T, at the time.

[Assistant] Do you know what it stood for?

[User] No, I'm sure I did at the time. Peace Corps has got so many acronyms. I bet the S-T is stateside training. Probably. That's my guess. I know it was CREST and it was about a week in Atlanta. So that's where I first met up with everybody. We did about a week there of training, learning a little bit about the host country, a bunch of sessions to talk with other people about, okay, why am I doing this? And it was a real good chance, I think, from Peace Corps' point of view too, for people to back out before they actually get sent on a plane to the other side of the planet.

[Assistant] And how many of you were at that initial meeting, do you recall?

[User] Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started.

[Assistant] And how many actually got on the plane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I'm sure I did at the time. Peace Corps has got so many acronyms. I bet the S-T is stateside training. Probably. That's my guess. I know it was CREST and it was about a week in Atlanta. So that's where I first met up with everybody. We did about a week there of training, learning a little bit about the host country, a bunch of sessions to talk with other people about, okay, why am I doing this? And it was a real good chance, I think, from Peace Corps' point of view too, for people to back out before they actually get sent on a plane to the other side of the planet.

[Assistant] And how many of you were at that initial meeting, do you recall?

[User] Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started.

[Assistant] And how many actually got on the plane?

[User] All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there.

[Assistant] So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Around 40 total. There were around 40 in our group that started.

[Assistant] And how many actually got on the plane?

[User] All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there.

[Assistant] So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?

[User] Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited.

[Assistant] And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All 40. Yeah, everyone did. There was a young man named Terry. He was the other psychology major in our group. So we hit it off well. He got to Lesotho and started the training there. And after, I don't know, maybe just a couple of weeks or something, he had had a very serious girlfriend back in the U.S. and so he left at that point. He was the first to leave, but all of us who met in Atlanta did fly over to Lesotho and start training there.

[Assistant] So describe what was that feeling like as soon as you landed in Lesotho?

[User] Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited.

[Assistant] And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] Sounds, smells. What did you see?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, we cheered. It was great. Even when we landed in Johannesburg after that flight, there were plenty of us on the plane. And it was, yeah, it was very emotional and exciting. Um. It was fun to be with a group getting there. Flying to Atlanta I was scared because I was alone, you know? But then you bond really fast even that first week, you know, as you're getting your first vaccinations and starting to train together. Um. Yeah. I mean, we were all nervous. None of us had done anything like this before. Even the two older volunteers in our group who were retired, you know, and doing it after their careers instead of before like most of us, even though they had a lot more life experience, they'd still never done anything like this. So we're a little scared and not really knowing what we're in for, but excited.

[Assistant] And so what was the environment like as soon as you walked out of their airport? What do you remember?

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] Sounds, smells. What did you see?

[User] Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago.

[Assistant] What was it that stood out to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] Sounds, smells. What did you see?

[User] Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago.

[Assistant] What was it that stood out to you?

[User] I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States.

[Assistant] So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I remember everything was, it was greener than I expected, since Lesotho is a very dry country for the most part and very mountainous. And I know, yeah, on the bus ride from the airport to Roma, the town where our training was, it's not a very far bus ride. The airport's really close to there. But looking around and saying, yep, it's really poor here. I knew to expect that, but it confirmed it, how very, very different it was from Chicago.

[Assistant] What was it that stood out to you?

[User] I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States.

[Assistant] So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess mostly at that point just driving by, seeing the houses that they were either the traditional rondavel made out of rocks and a mixture of cow dung and soil together with a thatched roof. Or the, quote, modern houses in Lesotho, which were cinder blocks with a corrugated tin roof. But either one being fairly humble compared to most housing in the United States.

[Assistant] So you said you went to Roma, which was the training site. Was that R-O-M-A, Roma?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?

[User]
We had two months of training there, six days a week. Um, it was pretty intense. It was pretty intense. I know that they'd. The groups before ours had had even more intense training with more sessions and it burnt people out and people had started to skip sessions and everything. So they were a little easier on us, but it was still living in pretty close quarters, you know, four women to a room or so. It was a, like a Catholic mission that Peace Corps was also using. The Peace Corps was kind of helping support it and had the ability to use the facilities. So there was like a dining hall where we had our meals and we had people who did our laundry, which was very nice. And we had language training and then what they called technical training.

So for those of us who are educational volunteers, they were teaching us. A lot of us didn't have an education background. So they're teaching us how to write a test, how to plan a lesson, you know. How to make visual aids when you have almost no resources at your disposal. And then the agriculture volunteers had their own technical training in terms of agricultural stuff. So yeah, language training and then cultural training.

[Assistant] So of the 40 of you, you were either in the education or the agricultural program? Or was there another sector that arrived with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And what did you do when you finally arrived in Lesotho? How much of additional training did you receive?

[User]
We had two months of training there, six days a week. Um, it was pretty intense. It was pretty intense. I know that they'd. The groups before ours had had even more intense training with more sessions and it burnt people out and people had started to skip sessions and everything. So they were a little easier on us, but it was still living in pretty close quarters, you know, four women to a room or so. It was a, like a Catholic mission that Peace Corps was also using. The Peace Corps was kind of helping support it and had the ability to use the facilities. So there was like a dining hall where we had our meals and we had people who did our laundry, which was very nice. And we had language training and then what they called technical training.

So for those of us who are educational volunteers, they were teaching us. A lot of us didn't have an education background. So they're teaching us how to write a test, how to plan a lesson, you know. How to make visual aids when you have almost no resources at your disposal. And then the agriculture volunteers had their own technical training in terms of agricultural stuff. So yeah, language training and then cultural training.

[Assistant] So of the 40 of you, you were either in the education or the agricultural program? Or was there another sector that arrived with you?

[User] No, those are the two groups. The majority of us, probably 25, 28 of us or something like that were education volunteers. And then there was a, maybe a third or so of the group were, they were called AFSI at the time. I think it stood for African, I don't know. AFSI. African Food System Initiative possibly?

[Assistant] And what was your technical training like? What did that entail in addition to the curriculum development and testing? Can you describe what that was like to help prepare you for your next two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, those are the two groups. The majority of us, probably 25, 28 of us or something like that were education volunteers. And then there was a, maybe a third or so of the group were, they were called AFSI at the time. I think it stood for African, I don't know. AFSI. African Food System Initiative possibly?

[Assistant] And what was your technical training like? What did that entail in addition to the curriculum development and testing? Can you describe what that was like to help prepare you for your next two years?

[User] Um, yeah, not much was on subject matter because they figured we already knew about science or math or whatever. We were there to teach. Maybe knew more, like I said, more math or science than we were actually going to be able to teach. So it was more, yeah, what would someone, say, who had been an education major would have learned. Again, yeah, curriculum planning, how to write a lesson plan, you know, how to plan out an introductory activity and a wrap up. And so how to present material, how to create a test that is fair and reasonable. Things like that.

[Assistant] And how was that for you, that situation, or rather that, that training and how did you take to it?

[User] It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have.

[Assistant] And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, yeah, not much was on subject matter because they figured we already knew about science or math or whatever. We were there to teach. Maybe knew more, like I said, more math or science than we were actually going to be able to teach. So it was more, yeah, what would someone, say, who had been an education major would have learned. Again, yeah, curriculum planning, how to write a lesson plan, you know, how to plan out an introductory activity and a wrap up. And so how to present material, how to create a test that is fair and reasonable. Things like that.

[Assistant] And how was that for you, that situation, or rather that, that training and how did you take to it?

[User] It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have.

[Assistant] And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?

[User] Fairly well. Fairly well. Yeah.

[Assistant] Now, let's go back to cultural training or language training. How was your language training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, it was pretty good, actually. It really helped because it was, not having been an education major, I didn't, it was information I didn't really have.

[Assistant] And do you feel like that training actually prepared you for the work you would be doing in your community?

[User] Fairly well. Fairly well. Yeah.

[Assistant] Now, let's go back to cultural training or language training. How was your language training?

[User]
It, it was good in that we had native speakers training us. That's very important. And they were very patient. But it was based on a model that was very auditory. And I'm not an auditory learner. I'm a visual learner. I didn't really know that at the time. I think I was figuring it out, though, because they, for some reason had this policy where the trainers really were not allowed to write anything down for us. We were supposed to just listen, you know. Whoever had designed this curriculum or this methodology was apparently an auditory learner. And they're like, oh, maybe everybody is an auditory learner. People should just hear the language, which is fine if you're a baby or a toddler, you can just hear a language and you soak it up. But as an adult, not so much, not for some of us at least.

Luckily, I was 22 at the time. The volunteers that were older had a much harder time learning the language. And I didn't need to become fluent since secondary school education, which is where I was going, is officially taught in English in Lesotho. So even if I didn't really speak Sesotho, it technically didn't matter. But to get around in the village, it, it certainly was helpful.

[Assistant] So your language training was only in Sesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. They could speak English with us. They just weren't supposed to write anything. And I just needed to see it to learn it, to remember it. Whether it was spelled phonetically or spelled properly didn't matter so much. I just needed to see it. So finally I started, they would say something and I would write it out phonetically for myself and make myself little mnemonics. Like I remember I had, um, the phrase that we needed first was ha ke bue Sesotho, I don't speak Sesotho. Because they, they taught us all the traditional greetings which you need at any time you're walking and you'd meet someone and you needed to say in the native language, hello, how are you? I am fine, thank you. How are you? So once you say that to somebody, though, in their language, they think, oh, you speak my language. And they go, ba ba ba ba, you know, and start speaking to me. So the next thing you had to know how to say was, I don't actually speak Sesotho, so stop.

[Assistant] So you said that was ha ke?

[User] Ha ke bue Sesotho.

[Assistant] Can you?

[User] I'll just close this door.

[Assistant] Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ha ke bue Sesotho.

[Assistant] Can you?

[User] I'll just close this door.

[Assistant] Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?

[User] Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong.

[Assistant] So ke, that means to speak?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'll just close this door.

[Assistant] Can you, at your best, spell ha ke bue Sesotho?

[User] Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong.

[Assistant] So ke, that means to speak?

[User] The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho.

[Assistant] And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Yeah. Ha is the no part which is H-A. And the next word is ke, which means I, K-E. And then bua means to speak. So bue is the negative. So B-U-E. And then Sesotho, the name of the language there, S-E-S-E-T-H-O. No. S-E-S-O-T-H-O? I'm not writing it. See again, I'm very visual, so I'd need to be writing it. And I apologize to speakers of Sesotho who are better than I am if I'm saying or spelling any of these things wrong.

[Assistant] So ke, that means to speak?

[User] The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho.

[Assistant] And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?

[User] Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy.

[Assistant] But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The ke is the me part or I. Yeah. So basically it's no, I don't speak Sesotho.

[Assistant] And the second following phrase, when you said, well, I actually don't speak Sesotho?

[User] Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy.

[Assistant] But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?

[User] Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning.

[Assistant] Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, that was the main thing that I remember asking the trainers because they, they taught us the greetings very well. And so it was great. We'd go walk around the village or something and we'd greet people properly. But then we said, please, please, please teach us how to say I don't speak Sesotho. So they taught us that. And I was like, okay, well, how am I going to remember this? You know, again, because I couldn't see it. So I made myself a little mnemonic of a hockey player because it sounds like hockey. So hockey players skating on ice, but the ice was actually a pond. And in the pond sticking up out of the ice was a big buoy, because I could remember the Sesotho part. You know, the country's Lesotho, the language is Sesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, so that was all pretty easy.

[Assistant] But can you explain that, Mosotho and Basotho?

[User] Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning.

[Assistant] Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh sure. So Basotho, B-A-S-E-T-H-O [sic], are, is what the people are called as a group. And then, um, actually, M-O probably, M- O-S-O-T-H-O then is singular one person. Because a lot of the words in the language, you change it by changing the beginning of the word, as opposed to like in English we would add an S or take off the S from the singular to plural. But in Sesotho you often change the beginning.

[Assistant] Okay. So you quickly learned about your learning style and you created something that worked for you.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?

[User] It was helpful, I. Yeah. I did not learn the language as fluently as a lot of other people. Um, partly, I think, because my village was close to the capital. So there were more people in my village who spoke English than in some of the more remote parts of the country. Um. And again, as an education volunteer, I technically didn't need the language skills to do my job. But of course you do need the language skills to go to the shop in the village and buy something or to talk to your neighbors if they don't speak English and things like that.

[Assistant] So what about your cross-cultural training? What was that like for you and what did it entail?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And would you say that when you got to your village, it was very helpful?

[User] It was helpful, I. Yeah. I did not learn the language as fluently as a lot of other people. Um, partly, I think, because my village was close to the capital. So there were more people in my village who spoke English than in some of the more remote parts of the country. Um. And again, as an education volunteer, I technically didn't need the language skills to do my job. But of course you do need the language skills to go to the shop in the village and buy something or to talk to your neighbors if they don't speak English and things like that.

[Assistant] So what about your cross-cultural training? What was that like for you and what did it entail?

[User] Oh yeah, I don't remember a lot of details, but I think kind of some role play about, you know, how people interact, you know, how to show respect to the village chief and the headmaster of your school and things like that. And they made sure we learned that, I mean, at that point in Lesotho women did not wear pants. Absolutely did not wear shorts. But even pants was not acceptable. Once in a while in the capital, say, you'd see a woman wearing pants. Otherwise, prostitutes wore pants. That was it. You women didn't wear pants. So whether you were teaching or climbing a mountain or cleaning your house or anything, we wore skirts. So that was a pretty important cultural thing.

[Assistant] And how did your group, how did the women of your group adjust to that? And how was it, how did it affect those who came with a lot of clothes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, I don't remember a lot of details, but I think kind of some role play about, you know, how people interact, you know, how to show respect to the village chief and the headmaster of your school and things like that. And they made sure we learned that, I mean, at that point in Lesotho women did not wear pants. Absolutely did not wear shorts. But even pants was not acceptable. Once in a while in the capital, say, you'd see a woman wearing pants. Otherwise, prostitutes wore pants. That was it. You women didn't wear pants. So whether you were teaching or climbing a mountain or cleaning your house or anything, we wore skirts. So that was a pretty important cultural thing.

[Assistant] And how did your group, how did the women of your group adjust to that? And how was it, how did it affect those who came with a lot of clothes?

[User] Oh, I'm sure they told us ahead of time so we didn't come with suitcases full of pants and no skirts and then be up a creek. So, yeah, we knew what, what we were getting into and that it, you know, kind of like if you go to a Muslim country and you need to keep your head covered or whatever the customs are, it's like this is just the way it works here. And it's amazing what you get used to. Yeah, I could do anything in a skirt. Yeah, really. Climbing mountains and whatever.

[Assistant] Ride a bike.

[User] Yeah, I didn't have a bike, but I would have certainly done it. Absolutely. Um. yeah. And it's pretty nice actually. A skirt keeps you cooler in the summer, I think, and can keep you warmer in the winter, especially with a slip under it and everything, since you're being really modest. So, yeah, it was, it was fun.

[Assistant] So what were some of the other things in terms of the way you live your life? The way you, for example, eat? The way you use the restroom. What were certain things that you had to adjust to? And how did you take that adjustment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, which was ooh la la. Luxury to have a private outhouse with walls and a little tin roof, you know. But most people did not have that. They either didn't have any type of outhouse or if they did, they shared it with lots and lots and lots and lots of other people. So I had to share mine just with a black widow spider that was in there one time. But yeah, there was a little lock on it because otherwise the whole village would have been using it, you know? So that was a little different. Yeah, you get used to that. And it gets cold in Lesotho, so it's, that was an adjustment too, living without heat.

[Assistant] So can you describe this outhouse to your listeners?

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] Was it a toilet you could sit on?

[User] Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out.

[Assistant] That was. Snow?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] Was it a toilet you could sit on?

[User] Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out.

[Assistant] That was. Snow?

[User] Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter.

[Assistant] And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, actually, unlike a lot of countries, you didn't have to squat. You could sit, there was a little shelf type seat over the hole and there was a pit dug down however many feet. I don't remember if there was a lid that closed or not, but it had. So it was maybe a little room, oh, probably three feet by three feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet, something like that. A little tiny box with a little door and walls and a little roof to keep the rain and snow out.

[Assistant] That was. Snow?

[User] Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter.

[Assistant] And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was it the same in Roma?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Lesotho is very high in elevation. It has the highest low point of any country in the world. The lowlands of Lesotho are not low at all. It's a little bit like Denver, where even if you're not in the mountains, you're still up really high. So, yeah, it snowed. It snows in Lesotho in the winter.

[Assistant] And so this was your, I guess, your living arrangement when you finally got to your village.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was it the same in Roma?

[User] In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages.

[Assistant] So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was it the same in Roma?

[User] In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages.

[Assistant] So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?

[User] We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower.

[Assistant] And this was a village in Roma?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Roma, we actually had flush toilets. They were not the nicest you've ever seen. But yes, Roma had. There were even showers that sometimes had hot water. So training was a good transition. You know, we were kind of roughing it but not at all like once we got to our villages.

[Assistant] So for the entire two months, were you only at this Christian, excuse me, Catholic mission facility? Or did you all ever go to a host family to help break you in?

[User] We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower.

[Assistant] And this was a village in Roma?

[User] Um, nearby. Some, not too far away, but yeah, outside of the village of Roma, but some other village nearby hosted us. And it was still pretty posh because we weren't totally alone. We were most or all of us in the same village and pretty much, I think two of us per household, say. So you still had somebody else right there with you, you know, one of your friends, one of your fellow trainees. But it was, yeah, eye opening, like, oh, this is what village life is really like. Okay.

[Assistant] So let's think more about the time you had in training before you went to your village. What were some of the things that you did or found yourself doing once you became more comfortable in your environment? Did you explore the community? Did you go out dancing? What were some of the things that you did during training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did, yes. So probably three quarters of the way through training after, say, six weeks or something. We did something called the village live-in where we spent a week living in a village. And it was a good, yeah, breaking in where it's like, okay, this is what it's like to really live in a village and not have a flush toilet and not have a shower.

[Assistant] And this was a village in Roma?

[User] Um, nearby. Some, not too far away, but yeah, outside of the village of Roma, but some other village nearby hosted us. And it was still pretty posh because we weren't totally alone. We were most or all of us in the same village and pretty much, I think two of us per household, say. So you still had somebody else right there with you, you know, one of your friends, one of your fellow trainees. But it was, yeah, eye opening, like, oh, this is what village life is really like. Okay.

[Assistant] So let's think more about the time you had in training before you went to your village. What were some of the things that you did or found yourself doing once you became more comfortable in your environment? Did you explore the community? Did you go out dancing? What were some of the things that you did during training?

[User] We made our own fun basically. The truth is there was no place to much to go. We could walk into the village, into town, to buy beer mostly. And then, yeah, pretty much just on the campus where we were training, we had parties, had our own little Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations and, and things like that and really, really bonded. I mean, it's amazing the bond we all formed during those two months. Priceless.

[Assistant] And this is your first year really now away from home during these holidays. How did you all take that or handle that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We made our own fun basically. The truth is there was no place to much to go. We could walk into the village, into town, to buy beer mostly. And then, yeah, pretty much just on the campus where we were training, we had parties, had our own little Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations and, and things like that and really, really bonded. I mean, it's amazing the bond we all formed during those two months. Priceless.

[Assistant] And this is your first year really now away from home during these holidays. How did you all take that or handle that?

[User]
Hmm. It was probably a little sad for all of us. Again, most of us were 22 right out of college. 22, 23 was probably the average age with just a few, couple of people in their thirties maybe. Two couples probably in their thirties, two married couples, and then a couple retired volunteers that were older. But otherwise, yeah, we were young. It was our first time, for a lot of us, probably not spending Christmas. Thanksgiving some of us had maybe stayed at college, but, but Christmas not being with our families. So it was perfect in a way. The training fell over that major holiday because we all had it together, you know.

And we, one of the volunteers dressed up as Santa and a bunch of us dressed up as elves, and we used a big agave flower stalk as a Christmas tree in the corner. And we made ornaments. I'm sure Barb and Cindy and other elementary school teachers that were very crafty helped us with glitter and crayons and whatever. And we had a lot of fun. We did a Secret Santa.

[Assistant] And so now your training is all over.

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] Let's talk about the steps that we're taking in terms of the next 24 months of your life. Did you have a choice in the matter as to where you would be going?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The village is called Ha Moruthane.

[Assistant] Can you spell that please?

[User] Sure. The Ha is H-A, the first word, which means like the place of. And then Moruthane, M-O-R-U-T-H-A-N-E, which is the name of the chief's family.

[Assistant] And earlier you mentioned the capital name as well. Can you repeat that name and provide a spelling before we continue?

[User] Sure. The capital of Lesotho is Maseru. M-A-S-E-R-U.

[Assistant] Okay, so now you're here in Ha Mahtani?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. The capital of Lesotho is Maseru. M-A-S-E-R-U.

[Assistant] Okay, so now you're here in Ha Mahtani?

[User] Moruthane.

[Assistant] Moruthane.

[User] Very good.

[Assistant] Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Moruthane.

[Assistant] Moruthane.

[User] Very good.

[Assistant] Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?

[User]
Oh boy, um, it was crazy. The, the. The chief called me Dr. Deena. I kept trying to explain to him I have a bachelor's degree, not a PhD or an MD or anything like that. I'm not actually a doctor. Oh, but you are so well educated, Dr. Deena, we are so honored to have you here. And, yeah, even with just my little liberal arts bachelor's degree, it was much more, much more educated than anyone else in the village had, master, chief, anybody. So, yeah, they were really amazing to me and treated me with so much respect. And I was like, I'm just a 22 year old kid, you know? But it was really beautiful.

They threw me a big welcome celebration. They killed a cow for me, which is a big deal. You know, people don't eat meat most of the time. You slaughter one of the cows once in a while for a wedding or a funeral or some other big, big deal. And they killed a cow for this. And everybody pitched in and made this big feast and had a big ceremony. My APCD, associate Peace Corps director, for education came to this big event and the chief presented me with a blanket, a traditional wearing blanket called a kobo, K-O-B-O, which I still have and will treasure always. And a traditional Basotho hat, that kind of triangular cone shaped hat. Yeah. And made speeches and it was incredible. Very humbling. Quite an honor.

[Assistant] Describe that festival, festive occasion.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very good.

[Assistant] Can you describe what was the environment like there and how did the people receive you upon your arrival?

[User]
Oh boy, um, it was crazy. The, the. The chief called me Dr. Deena. I kept trying to explain to him I have a bachelor's degree, not a PhD or an MD or anything like that. I'm not actually a doctor. Oh, but you are so well educated, Dr. Deena, we are so honored to have you here. And, yeah, even with just my little liberal arts bachelor's degree, it was much more, much more educated than anyone else in the village had, master, chief, anybody. So, yeah, they were really amazing to me and treated me with so much respect. And I was like, I'm just a 22 year old kid, you know? But it was really beautiful.

They threw me a big welcome celebration. They killed a cow for me, which is a big deal. You know, people don't eat meat most of the time. You slaughter one of the cows once in a while for a wedding or a funeral or some other big, big deal. And they killed a cow for this. And everybody pitched in and made this big feast and had a big ceremony. My APCD, associate Peace Corps director, for education came to this big event and the chief presented me with a blanket, a traditional wearing blanket called a kobo, K-O-B-O, which I still have and will treasure always. And a traditional Basotho hat, that kind of triangular cone shaped hat. Yeah. And made speeches and it was incredible. Very humbling. Quite an honor.

[Assistant] Describe that festival, festive occasion.

[User] Can't find the words.

[Assistant] Yeah. You know, it was humbling, yes. But how did it make you feel to, to have the respect of the people? And what was going through your mind at the time, if you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] How did you, I guess, prepare for the school year and how was your first day?

[User]
Hmm. I can't specifically remember my first day of school. I do remember my first day getting to my village. The headmaster and chief had come to the swearing-in ceremony at the ambassador's house in Maseru, in the capital. And then after the ceremony, we all grabbed our luggage and loaded it into the truck of each of our headmasters or whoever had come for us from our village and off we went. And, um, got to the village. They dropped me off by my little, my little house, and helped me carry my stuff in. And some little girls brought me a bucket of water because they knew, well, she doesn't know how to get water yet or whatever. So they brought me a bucket or two of water and then they left.

And I remember sitting there going, oh God, what have I done? I guess it was, I remember the cloudy day. I can picture sitting there going, this is surreal. Here I really am. And I probably a couple of days after that before school started. Um. I know that I was, I said, well, I'm supposed to teach English and, excuse me, math and science. That's what Peace Corps officially had sent me for. And they said, well, guess what? You're the only native English speaker, so, uh, you're teaching English too. I said, okay, that does kind of make sense.

[Assistant] So three subjects.

[User] Yes. Yes. So. Of different grade levels. I mostly taught the older students because the younger ones, their English really wasn't good enough for them to receive instruction in English. So the older ones theoretically understood if I was teaching them science or math content in English.

[Assistant] You mentioned that it was secondary education. What age group is that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. Yes.

[Assistant] And so how did your students receive you your first time around?

[User] They at first were really attentive because it was so novel having me as their teacher compared to their other teachers. Um, and then as they got, you know, as we get to know each other more, they loosened up a little bit and some would misbehave a little of course. I found that even though I did teach in English, mostly because I had to, not being real fluent in Sesotho, and I was supposed to also. But every once in a while to get their attention, I would sneak in some words in Sesotho, and they'd be like, oh, Me Deena spoke Sesotho! Pull everybody's attention back so.

[Assistant] What's Me Deena?

[User] Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman.

[Assistant] So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They at first were really attentive because it was so novel having me as their teacher compared to their other teachers. Um, and then as they got, you know, as we get to know each other more, they loosened up a little bit and some would misbehave a little of course. I found that even though I did teach in English, mostly because I had to, not being real fluent in Sesotho, and I was supposed to also. But every once in a while to get their attention, I would sneak in some words in Sesotho, and they'd be like, oh, Me Deena spoke Sesotho! Pull everybody's attention back so.

[Assistant] What's Me Deena?

[User] Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman.

[Assistant] So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] I understand. Okay. Me Deena.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, Me Deena, um. Me, M-E, literally means mother, but it's the term you use to address an adult woman.

[Assistant] So it's Me Deena. Ah! With your name.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] I understand. Okay. Me Deena.

[User] So if you were there, you'd be Me Charlaine.

[Assistant] Okay. And so, um, how? I guess the way I should word this question is, did you have any successes or accomplishments with your students at all? Did they have to take exams?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] I understand. Okay. Me Deena.

[User] So if you were there, you'd be Me Charlaine.

[Assistant] Okay. And so, um, how? I guess the way I should word this question is, did you have any successes or accomplishments with your students at all? Did they have to take exams?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And how did that go for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] And did you teach the same students? How did their, um, I guess, their progression system work there?

[User] Yeah, the, there's forms A through E in the secondary school.

[Assistant] What do the forms represent?

[User] A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on.

[Assistant] Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the, there's forms A through E in the secondary school.

[Assistant] What do the forms represent?

[User] A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on.

[Assistant] Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?

[User] Hmm. I think partly, because I'm an introvert and kept to myself a lot. Partly the language barriers, um, and then also partly that a teacher could only have female friends, a single teacher. It would have been scandalous if I become friends with, say, one of my, one of the male teachers at the school or a male neighbor or something like that. That would have been.

[Assistant] Can you explain the cultural, um, the cultural I guess reason for that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A and B are the younger secondary school students. And then if I remember correctly, after form. No, I believe there's exams at form C and form E. I, it's been a long time. Need to go back and reread my journals and all that to remember those details. But there's one set of exams and then there's a big set of exams after form E, the lower, the upper levels. So and then there's exams each year to move up. And so some of the students moved up. Some didn't. Some would vanish for whatever reason. You know, the family didn't have the money to keep paying school fees or they needed to care for younger siblings or who knows what. But yeah, our school was not certainly the best in the country, the highest academic, but neither the worst and so the students did okay. Some of them actually passed those exams and moved on.

[Assistant] Did you develop any close relationships with members of your community, and if so, can you describe those relationships?

[User] Hmm. I think partly, because I'm an introvert and kept to myself a lot. Partly the language barriers, um, and then also partly that a teacher could only have female friends, a single teacher. It would have been scandalous if I become friends with, say, one of my, one of the male teachers at the school or a male neighbor or something like that. That would have been.

[Assistant] Can you explain the cultural, um, the cultural I guess reason for that?

[User] Yeah, I. Thinking about it now, I guess it would have been assumed that there was an affair going on if a man and a woman who were not married to each other were actually spending time together. Um, yeah, there wasn't really the option of a friendship like that.

[Assistant] And so your headmaster, how did you then create a relationship with him for your, for the purpose of your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I. Thinking about it now, I guess it would have been assumed that there was an affair going on if a man and a woman who were not married to each other were actually spending time together. Um, yeah, there wasn't really the option of a friendship like that.

[Assistant] And so your headmaster, how did you then create a relationship with him for your, for the purpose of your job?

[User]
Hmm. Pretty much we would only see each other at school. And yeah, so it was, there was no, like after some jobs or whatever. Hey, everybody at work, let's go out for happy hour or let's have a company Christmas party. That's a social thing. There was nothing like that. I think the only social event really in the village besides, say, my welcome banquet, was the. Sometime during my service, I think it was early into my second year, the headmaster of the school married one of the teachers at the school. So there was a whole wedding that was a social event. I was the only one with a camera or who knew how to use a camera, so I was the official photographer. And the chief was the chaplain or whatever his title would have been.

So we did have that one social event, but otherwise things were pretty much just you went to school, taught, maybe stayed around a little bit for a staff meeting or something like that. But then otherwise everybody pretty much just went home to their each little house and not really other socializing. Which I guess is a lot of the reason that the, all the other volunteers, we would all find ways to gather at different people's places or gather in the capital or something and socialize.

[Assistant] And with regards to family dynamics, what did you observe as it pertains to family relationships there?

[User] Hmm. Um. It. I'll have to think about that. For a large. In general, there were not that many adult men around because, again, they were working in the mines.

[Assistant] In the mines.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] How did it make you feel and what was that like? Was there another festival for you or a fete I should say?

[User]
Right, yeah. No, it was less dramatic certainly leaving. Um. It was. I think I left with mixed emotions. You know, I thought about, well, should I extend for a third year or not? Yeah, I mean, things were going fine. And staying, you know, in hindsight, staying for one more year, it might have been like, okay, I didn't just do 50 percent learning, figuring out what I was doing, and then the other 50 percent of my time actually feeling like I did something. I could have changed that to one third and two thirds and stayed for another year once I was actually in a groove and doing things. But I guess I thought, well, two years is a standard service. It's time, you know, done.

And in some ways I guess I'm kind of glad most of my group COSed, closed our service, at the same time. So it was kind of nice to have that. I mean, because we were such a tight group, and still are actually. We still, there's still some of my best friends on the planet and we still have a big reunion every five years, and most of us show up even 30 years later. So, um, closing our service together was nice closure.

[Assistant] So how was it like when you returned home? What was your adjustment like?

[User] They warned us that the reverse culture shock would probably be harder. Yeah. Than the culture shock when you went, which, at the beginning you're like, what? That can't be. I know how to live in America. It's hard getting used to living in Africa. And it was, of course, hard to get used to living in Africa. But you expect things to be different when you're going to wherever you go. And you think, oh, coming back, no big deal. It was a big deal, I mean.

[Assistant] In what way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they remember you?

[User] No. Well, for a number of reasons. It had been many years. It's not like I came back after just a few years where there would still have been some of the same people. And tragically, I'm sure very, very many of my former students, the teachers I taught with and everything, have perished with AIDS. The AIDS epidemic just destroyed Lesotho. It was not there yet when I was there. And it's getting better now that there's antiretrovirals and all of that. But it absolutely ravished the country. So I have to face the fact that probably a very large percentage of the people that I knew there are no longer here.

[Assistant] How did your, your children respond or react?

[User] It was fun. They were like little celebrities, even though a lot of years have gone by. Still the kids in the village were not used to white people walking around. And my daughter, with her long, long, very blond hair, it was just like, whoa! You know, you're just, it's just so different from what they're used to, that the kids were following her around. It was very fun.

[Assistant] So did you actually stay for a few days there with your children?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Thirty.

[Assistant] I just realized the time.

[User] 30 years ago.

[Assistant] 30 years.

[User] Way back, it's amazing I remember any of this.

[Assistant] You know, when. First of all, let me, let me backtrack a bit. When you, when you returned to Lesotho, did anything change? And how long between your leaving and your arrival was that exactly? Do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Way back, it's amazing I remember any of this.

[Assistant] You know, when. First of all, let me, let me backtrack a bit. When you, when you returned to Lesotho, did anything change? And how long between your leaving and your arrival was that exactly? Do you recall?

[User]
Yeah, we. I'd always promised the kids I would take them. And I realized as my son, my oldest, was getting near the end of high school. Like, once he goes off to college he may, yeah, he may or may not be back for summers or breaks or whatever. I'm like, eh, we gotta go, you know, before he finishes high school. So it would have been, well. And the seasons being reversed since Lesotho is in the southern hemisphere. I wanted to go when it was summer there, which meant it needed to be winter here. And so we went over Christmas, the kids' Christmas break. And so it would have been Christmas of 2011, so eight years ago. So it had been probably 22 years or something since I'd been there.

And some things had changed, certainly. There is now more than one stoplight in the country. When I served, there was one stoplight in the country at the capitol and that was it. But it just, it was so touching how many things had not. You wake up to the sound of chickens running around and.

[Assistant] Cows mooing.

[User] Cows mooing. Yep. And people are fetching water and, yeah, so much.

[Assistant] And would you say anything changed with the, um, economic challenges that they had in the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Cows mooing. Yep. And people are fetching water and, yeah, so much.

[Assistant] And would you say anything changed with the, um, economic challenges that they had in the country?

[User] I think it's great progress that at least primary school education is covered for all the kids, so everyone at least has that opportunity. Um. There's a big dam. There's a giant hydroelectric project that's been done that, it's controversial of course, the dam. You know, they drowned a bunch of villages. You know, people had warning, but it's like, okay, your village is now going to be under water. You know, you build a dam on the river and it submerges a big area. So obviously pros and cons to it, but it provides hydroelectric power to Lesotho. Ironically, that I kept talking about not having enough water. But water is one of Lesotho's great wealths because being up in the mountains, you know, the water all runs down from there down into South Africa. So hopefully that's helping somewhat with the economy.

[Assistant] Is there anything you wish to share to your listeners about what your service meant to you? Yeah, just what it meant to you in general?

[User] Yeah. Um. Really overall I would say it was just, it's such a blessing to have had that opportunity. Such a gift that, yeah, I mean, you sign up with the intention of going to help, to give of yourself. But I got so much more, yeah, than I could ever, ever give. Just, yeah, and what you learn in the incredible generosity of people, people who have essentially nothing but somehow manage to offer things to you, you know. It's just. And again, yeah, that common humanity, that even when you're someplace where things are so different and people look different and they speak a different language and their houses are different and the food's different, da da da da. It's like, like I said before, we're so fundamentally the same.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you would love to return to the Peace Corps if you could. Where would you go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Um. Really overall I would say it was just, it's such a blessing to have had that opportunity. Such a gift that, yeah, I mean, you sign up with the intention of going to help, to give of yourself. But I got so much more, yeah, than I could ever, ever give. Just, yeah, and what you learn in the incredible generosity of people, people who have essentially nothing but somehow manage to offer things to you, you know. It's just. And again, yeah, that common humanity, that even when you're someplace where things are so different and people look different and they speak a different language and their houses are different and the food's different, da da da da. It's like, like I said before, we're so fundamentally the same.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you would love to return to the Peace Corps if you could. Where would you go?

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] And why?

[User] I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing.

[Assistant] What about a region, then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm.

[Assistant] And why?

[User] I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing.

[Assistant] What about a region, then?

[User] A region? It would. My Spanish skills are even better now than they were then because I use it now for work and all that. So it seems like it would make sense to be someplace where I would already have a decent foundation in the language. Not that great, but could get by. And of course the local dialect and slang and everything would be something to learn, but at least I would have a foundation. So that would kind of make sense. But it's also kind of cool challenge to learn something totally new, you know, to be doing something with a completely different alphabet or whatever. So I'm really open to just about anything.

[Assistant] You mentioned earlier, um, probably not on this recording, I actually do not recall, that you, you pulled out old journals and you looked at them before this interview.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. That's a great question and I'll have to think about that, although maybe I won't think too hard because if I get my heart set on someplace and then can't go, then it would be disappointing.

[Assistant] What about a region, then?

[User] A region? It would. My Spanish skills are even better now than they were then because I use it now for work and all that. So it seems like it would make sense to be someplace where I would already have a decent foundation in the language. Not that great, but could get by. And of course the local dialect and slang and everything would be something to learn, but at least I would have a foundation. So that would kind of make sense. But it's also kind of cool challenge to learn something totally new, you know, to be doing something with a completely different alphabet or whatever. So I'm really open to just about anything.

[Assistant] You mentioned earlier, um, probably not on this recording, I actually do not recall, that you, you pulled out old journals and you looked at them before this interview.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Is there any story you would wish to share that you did not share during this interview?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Is there any story you would wish to share that you did not share during this interview?

[User]
Hmm. Um. Hmm. I'll just give maybe a little shout out to Barbara, who was my roommate even back in Atlanta, the very, very first training. The very first night when she got there, we hit it off right away. I was so thrilled. She was a vegetarian. And we both wanted to live in a little hut and not in a modern house with a tin roof. And yeah, we just clicked immediately. It was just luck that we were assigned to be roommates even back in Atlanta. But she became a super, super dear friend.

And people would even accuse us of cheating when we'd play a game, like we'd play, we'd make these homemade Pictionary games. We didn't have one, but we'd use a little slip of papers and write the words and we'd be playing. And be like, you didn't even draw anything! How did she guess it? And we're like, I don't know. We just had this, you know, we would just read each other's mind, one little squiggle. And it's like, how do you know that's South Dakota, you know? So that was really special. A really, really special friendship. But I'll always treasure her.

[Assistant] Is there anything more you would like to share with your listeners? Anything about your time or how it changed you and or what you're doing today, etcetera, but related to your Peace Corps experience.

[User] Um, no, I think we've been really thorough. Your questions have been fabulous, and I, um. That's, that's most of it. Just again, it's a real, a real wonderful opportunity. And if only everyone in the world spent two years in some other country, the world would be such a different place.

[Assistant] Would you like to end here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn’t do any manned testing in the Shuttle.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I wasn’t the test director. We did in manned testing, but I was the customer in the testing. So I didn’t work the test side; I worked the hardware side. I was responsible that the hardware was ready for test, but the test setup and all that was the responsibility of the other side of the house, so I can’t really answer that because I didn’t take that much part in that part.

[Assistant] Sure. I just have a few more questions for you. One of the questions I had relates to the DOD [Department of Defense] flights. Did that have any sort of impact on your facilities at all in terms of flying classified missions, or was that a non [issue]?

[User] No, that was not an impact here at all. It changed the way we handled flight data, but that did not affect any of our testing up front.

[Assistant] When was the ETA last used? You mentioned that they don’t use that anymore. Do you recall the date on that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, actually, it just felt like it was calling me. It was the beginning of the Peace Corps. And I was still a college student with plans to become engaged after graduation and move to Chicago and get married.

[Assistant] That's what we all did.

[User] But the recruiter came to my college, Xavier University of New Orleans, and a friend of mine, Brenda Auguste, and I often talked about wanting to do something, wanting to go places. But we had a life that was pretty organized for us and that we participated in organizing. But the recruiter came that day. It was a Wednesday, I'll never forget it. And talked about the Peace Corps and Kennedy and, um. And basically said the Peace Corps does not have very many African Americans who are beginning to, uh, who are finding interest here or who are, who are joining the Peace Corps, and very much encouraged us to think about it. And I did. And as a matter of fact, I mean, by the time that recruiter got done talking, I knew that this was something for me, that I wanted to do this. And my girlfriend and I talked about it immediately after that time. And we both said this is what we want. And so we joined, both together.

[Assistant] And she went to Honduras as well?

[User] She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience.

[Assistant] So did other people from Xavier go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But the recruiter came to my college, Xavier University of New Orleans, and a friend of mine, Brenda Auguste, and I often talked about wanting to do something, wanting to go places. But we had a life that was pretty organized for us and that we participated in organizing. But the recruiter came that day. It was a Wednesday, I'll never forget it. And talked about the Peace Corps and Kennedy and, um. And basically said the Peace Corps does not have very many African Americans who are beginning to, uh, who are finding interest here or who are, who are joining the Peace Corps, and very much encouraged us to think about it. And I did. And as a matter of fact, I mean, by the time that recruiter got done talking, I knew that this was something for me, that I wanted to do this. And my girlfriend and I talked about it immediately after that time. And we both said this is what we want. And so we joined, both together.

[Assistant] And she went to Honduras as well?

[User] She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience.

[Assistant] So did other people from Xavier go?

[User] There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa.

[Assistant] Who was a close friend.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She went to Honduras as well. And that was our one request when we did our applications was that we would go together. And Peace Corps was so new then that they basically honored our request and sent us to the, to the same country, different, different cities, different assignments, but the same country, which was a wonderful thing for us. We are lifelong friends because of that experience.

[Assistant] So did other people from Xavier go?

[User] There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa.

[Assistant] Who was a close friend.

[User] Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were five of us that went in 1962, and one person I think went to Africa.

[Assistant] Who was a close friend.

[User] Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?

[User] Yes!

[Assistant] He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Somalia. Charles Baquet, Chuck Baquet? Richard?

[User] Yes!

[Assistant] He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline.

[User] Okay, yes, absolutely. So there were five of us that went to various to various countries. Brenda and I went to Honduras together.

[Assistant] Right. So then where were you trained?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes!

[Assistant] He's a good friend of ours. We will have that, we will have that conversation offline.

[User] Okay, yes, absolutely. So there were five of us that went to various to various countries. Brenda and I went to Honduras together.

[Assistant] Right. So then where were you trained?

[User] We trained at Saint Louis University in Saint Louis. The training was phenomenal. Because we were Honduras I, Peace Corps was brand new and our training experience was phenomenal. We just, I just got back from the Honduras, the 50th anniversary, and we, Brenda and I went together and talked about what training was like for us since Peace Corps really didn't know much about what to do, they did everything. So we did some of everything. We had language about 8 to 10 hours a day.

[Assistant] Had you spoken Spanish before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I just let go. And actually once I let go, the rope pulled me and I was able to bounce off the wall going down. And so I was able to bounce off the side of the dam all the way down. And so I did it. I made it. And by the time I got to the bottom, I felt so brave. I felt like I could do anything.

[Assistant] Which was the whole point of that, right?

[User] Which was the whole point of that, is that I really felt like I could do anything.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this was a real bonding experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Which was the whole point of that, is that I really felt like I could do anything.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this was a real bonding experience.

[User] Well, it was an incredibly, I mean, we still, we still are in touch with each other 50 some years later and, um, yes. I mean, that was an experience that if you made it through that experience and you felt like you were a family to each other.

[Assistant] Wow. So you got to, so you left Puerto Rico.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this was a real bonding experience.

[User] Well, it was an incredibly, I mean, we still, we still are in touch with each other 50 some years later and, um, yes. I mean, that was an experience that if you made it through that experience and you felt like you were a family to each other.

[Assistant] Wow. So you got to, so you left Puerto Rico.

[User] We left Puerto Rico. We were able to go home for a week. And then we left wherever home was and flew to, uh, where did we? We flew to New York.

[Assistant] And then together?