[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, but it wasn't intimidating. Whereas we had heard of, we had also known prior volunteers that had the other experience where they were put through sensitivity training and all of these other things to. No, they had abandoned that because that was.

[Assistant] Was the Vietnam War over by then?

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay.

[User] So they weren't doing that.

[Assistant] The draft wasn't an issue.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay.

[User] So they weren't doing that.

[Assistant] The draft wasn't an issue.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they weren't doing that.

[Assistant] The draft wasn't an issue.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?

[User] Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah.

[Assistant] And did the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do peer ratings during that time?

[User] Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah.

[Assistant] And did the group?

[User] But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, let me think. We might have been. Yeah.

[Assistant] And did the group?

[User] But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth.

[User] Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing.

[Assistant] We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But based on products we were asked to, that we were assigned to do, you know, because with teacher training and with teaching, you have to make units and you have to make presentations. And so in that sense, you did some peer ratings, but that was it.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. Some places they ask, well, the on, on the face of it, is well who would you like to be assigned with? But then they use it for, to find isolates and so forth.

[User] Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing.

[Assistant] We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?

[User] We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess.

[Assistant] It could be.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they had. They had abandoned, they didn't use that with our group, for that at that level. And I'm thinking back because I have to. I also did two Peace Corps trainings after that as a RPCV. And so again, depending on who you're contracting with determines what kinds of things you're doing.

[Assistant] We'll stick with your Liberia experience. So the six weeks comes to an end. At that point?

[User] We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess.

[Assistant] It could be.

[User] Yeah. We disembarked from Washington for Liberia. That's what it was.

[Assistant] Was there a swearing in ceremony?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We go straight from Nashville. That was where we went to Washington I guess.

[Assistant] It could be.

[User] Yeah. We disembarked from Washington for Liberia. That's what it was.

[Assistant] Was there a swearing in ceremony?

[User] The swearing in, I believe, was in Washington. Yeah, that's, I think that's what happened because we didn't go back home before going.

[Assistant] You don't remember who was Peace Corps director at that time? Was it Blatchford?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The swearing in, I believe, was in Washington. Yeah, that's, I think that's what happened because we didn't go back home before going.

[Assistant] You don't remember who was Peace Corps director at that time? Was it Blatchford?

[User] Oh, no. I'm smiling because we know Blatchford.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] From another, his son went to school with my son. Okay. So we know the Blatchfords very well.

[Assistant] Yeah. He may have been earlier. And then there were others.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From another, his son went to school with my son. Okay. So we know the Blatchfords very well.

[Assistant] Yeah. He may have been earlier. And then there were others.

[User] He was, he was. Cy Griven was the Peace Corps director in Liberia. And the Peace Corps, I want to say, was it Payton?

[Assistant] Could be.

[User] It was Payton.

[Assistant] Okay. And how were the kids taking all this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was, he was. Cy Griven was the Peace Corps director in Liberia. And the Peace Corps, I want to say, was it Payton?

[Assistant] Could be.

[User] It was Payton.

[Assistant] Okay. And how were the kids taking all this?

[User] Oh, it was fun for them. They pretty much. I said the only problematic incident was with my daughter getting ill.

[Assistant] You mentioned that. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, it was fun for them. They pretty much. I said the only problematic incident was with my daughter getting ill.

[Assistant] You mentioned that. Yeah.

[User] And that was because the house, it was. Winter in Nashville is different from winter in Chicago because it's rainy and damp.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, um, we were. Where she was in preschool was really very drafty and damp and I didn't know that. And so she wound up with this cold. And, you know, my children generally don't get sick. So when she showed the signs of an infection, you know, runny nose and stuff, I took her to the doctor right away.

[Assistant] Was she hospitalized?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that was because the house, it was. Winter in Nashville is different from winter in Chicago because it's rainy and damp.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, um, we were. Where she was in preschool was really very drafty and damp and I didn't know that. And so she wound up with this cold. And, you know, my children generally don't get sick. So when she showed the signs of an infection, you know, runny nose and stuff, I took her to the doctor right away.

[Assistant] Was she hospitalized?

[User] No, no, no. They just gave her an, an injection and medication and we were able to treat her at home. And so within a week, she was fine.

[Assistant] So now you're leaving from Washington, flying to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. They just gave her an, an injection and medication and we were able to treat her at home. And so within a week, she was fine.

[Assistant] So now you're leaving from Washington, flying to?

[User] Liberia.

[Assistant] Liberia. Robertsfield?

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] And this is your first time then going to Africa?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Liberia.

[Assistant] Liberia. Robertsfield?

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] And this is your first time then going to Africa?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you recall your initial reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was easy for us because we had children. So everything for us was expedited. Not at Peace Corps' end, but when you, when you travel, you know this.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] When you're going through customs with or without U.S. endorsement, you basically are breezed through because they know that young infants, young children have had enough stress and so they try to expedite it. So we were, we got out of there pretty expeditiously.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so.

[Assistant] But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When you're going through customs with or without U.S. endorsement, you basically are breezed through because they know that young infants, young children have had enough stress and so they try to expedite it. So we were, we got out of there pretty expeditiously.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so.

[Assistant] But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first.

[User] I may not have been, I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peace Corps Liberia was really good at handling those kinds of things and so.

[Assistant] But before you came, they had, there had been a couple of years when married couples with children were coming into Liberia? You weren't the first.

[User] I may not have been, I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years.

[User] Yeah, but I don't know if any or many had come to Liberia.

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I may not have been, I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. And not a large number, but the program had been in place for a couple of years.

[User] Yeah, but I don't know if any or many had come to Liberia.

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know that.

[User] My understanding is that we were the first and probably the last. The married couples that we knew were other places.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I know they, someone sat down and calculated the cost.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And, um, and it had, before they could do that, they really had to make sure that the infrastructure was in place. And in a lot of countries, it really wasn't. But Liberia was considered to be a fairly good country.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Easy country.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else.

[Assistant] When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Easy country.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else.

[Assistant] When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?

[User] Oh yeah, it was a big program.

[Assistant] Because in the early days, it was. It was one of the largest.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they had school places. They went to the American school like everybody else.

[Assistant] When you were, when you got there, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in Liberia? Was it a big program?

[User] Oh yeah, it was a big program.

[Assistant] Because in the early days, it was. It was one of the largest.

[User] I want to say there were probably close to 200 volunteers maybe, but there were a lot. We weren't tripping all over one another because Liberia is a very diverse country.

[Assistant] Talk about your settling in the first week.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, well, the first week was more training. We went up to, I can't remember the name of the county, but we. The problem was, let me think. Okay. Yeah. Um, it's interesting because we actually did part of our training in [Grand] Cape Mount County is what it was called. And my husband was being, we were trained in two languages, Vai and Kpelle. That's what it was. Uh, which, now that I think about it, was kind of. I don't know. I think everybody was trained first in Vai. And then, and we spent two weeks being trained in Cape Mount, living in a village. That's what it was. We were doing village living. That's what it was.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so as part of village living, we had to do Vai because we were in a Vai village. And then we'd break up into groups doing your own specific language for where you would be going. So we did. [tape break]. As well.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] We did there. And then we also, hmm. And we also did some training in Bonga, which is where our first placement.

[Assistant] Once you, once you're in the country for the two week village stay, at that point do you know what your final assignment is going to be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did there. And then we also, hmm. And we also did some training in Bonga, which is where our first placement.

[Assistant] Once you, once you're in the country for the two week village stay, at that point do you know what your final assignment is going to be?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So, okay.

[User] We knew.

[Assistant] You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So, okay.

[User] We knew.

[Assistant] You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?

[User] Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family.

[Assistant] Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We knew.

[Assistant] You knew coming into the country. And why didn't they give you a village experience there?

[User] Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family.

[Assistant] Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So with whom did you stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because the villages were far flung and that would have stretched Peace Corps' resources. But they were doing village based training as well as in-country training. So there were two weeks of village training, being with the family, becoming a member of that family.

[Assistant] Now, that, that's a big step now, it's not just a single volunteer. It's a couple with two children.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So with whom did you stay?

[User] Oh, I can't even remember the family's name.

[Assistant] But what was their family structure like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they kind of share the responsibility for hosting.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Now with the singles they were placed in, with one family.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] For us, we were still with one family, but, um, there was, the family setting was large enough to accommodate another family right in that, that housing unit itself.

[Assistant] Do you recall the kids? I mean, this is pretty far out there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Now with the singles they were placed in, with one family.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] For us, we were still with one family, but, um, there was, the family setting was large enough to accommodate another family right in that, that housing unit itself.

[Assistant] Do you recall the kids? I mean, this is pretty far out there.

[User] They were doing well because they were just running around playing with the other Liberian children that lived in the village and picking up the language much faster than we did.

[Assistant] Of course. And I assume they were readily accepted.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were doing well because they were just running around playing with the other Liberian children that lived in the village and picking up the language much faster than we did.

[Assistant] Of course. And I assume they were readily accepted.

[User] Oh, they were.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, yeah. So. And they became very Liberian the whole while they were there.

[Assistant] Yeah. And the health wasn't a problem?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, they were.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, yeah. So. And they became very Liberian the whole while they were there.

[Assistant] Yeah. And the health wasn't a problem?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Good. Yeah. Um, so you have two weeks in the village stay. And then after that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Good. Yeah. Um, so you have two weeks in the village stay. And then after that?

[User] Then we go to our sites. So we went to Gbarnga.

[Assistant] Gbarnga.

[User] Gbarnga, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then we go to our sites. So we went to Gbarnga.

[Assistant] Gbarnga.

[User] Gbarnga, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?

[User] From Monrovia, um, is it three hours by car? Um, but in distance, you know how the roads work in Africa. In real distance it was probably 150 miles. If that.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. So when you get to Gbarnga.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gbarnga, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. How far is that from Monrovia?

[User] From Monrovia, um, is it three hours by car? Um, but in distance, you know how the roads work in Africa. In real distance it was probably 150 miles. If that.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. So when you get to Gbarnga.

[User] I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember. For the first few weeks, we stayed on the campus of BWI. Oh, what was BWI? Uh.

[Assistant] British West Indies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember. For the first few weeks, we stayed on the campus of BWI. Oh, what was BWI? Uh.

[Assistant] British West Indies?

[User] No, it was whoever the man was. Booker Washington Institute, sorry.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] You know, Baltimore Washington International Airport. Booker Washington Institute was the name of the school. I was teaching at Kakata Rural Teacher Training Institute. They share a campus. BWI is here. Kakata is there.

[Assistant] Now, what's the level?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was whoever the man was. Booker Washington Institute, sorry.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] You know, Baltimore Washington International Airport. Booker Washington Institute was the name of the school. I was teaching at Kakata Rural Teacher Training Institute. They share a campus. BWI is here. Kakata is there.

[Assistant] Now, what's the level?

[User] It is a high school.

[Assistant] But they're preparing to become teachers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so we actually lived in the principal of BWI Institute's house for the first few months because housing was supposed to be provided at Kakata, KRTTI, it was called. And it took several months for them to come through with it.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So that became a problem, you know, living in somebody else's space, you know, for months after you joined the Peace Corps, got to be a little. But it was good in one way because I didn't have to cook and had some of the best Liberian food I'll probably ever eat because it was furnished right there.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] But it was, it was a real inconvenience.

[Assistant] Yeah. Now, when you're, when you're at Gbarnga, you're now doing intensive language training or just?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that became a problem, you know, living in somebody else's space, you know, for months after you joined the Peace Corps, got to be a little. But it was good in one way because I didn't have to cook and had some of the best Liberian food I'll probably ever eat because it was furnished right there.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] But it was, it was a real inconvenience.

[Assistant] Yeah. Now, when you're, when you're at Gbarnga, you're now doing intensive language training or just?

[User] Uh, we were still doing. What are we doing? Oh, I know what happened. Okay. Sorry.

[Assistant] That's all right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, we were still doing. What are we doing? Oh, I know what happened. Okay. Sorry.

[Assistant] That's all right.

[User] What happened with the language training is that at some point after two weeks, some of us got shipped to Gbarnga to do language training in Gbarnga and training associated with practicum teaching. They had found a school, a high school, and Bong County High School is what it was. And we were doing some pre-service training right there, whereas other people were taken somewhere else. So that's the first time we're separated. So the children and my husband stayed in Cape Mount. That's what happened.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks.

[Assistant] Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What happened with the language training is that at some point after two weeks, some of us got shipped to Gbarnga to do language training in Gbarnga and training associated with practicum teaching. They had found a school, a high school, and Bong County High School is what it was. And we were doing some pre-service training right there, whereas other people were taken somewhere else. So that's the first time we're separated. So the children and my husband stayed in Cape Mount. That's what happened.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks.

[Assistant] Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So the language of instruction was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, so they were still with the family and kids. And I, along with a lot of other education and teacher training volunteers, we went to Gbarnga. And so we were, we stayed on the Methodist mission for like two weeks.

[Assistant] Was there any expectation that you were going to be working in a second language?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So the language of instruction was?

[User] Oh, no, there was never that expectation.

[Assistant] Okay. And you knew that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So the language of instruction was?

[User] Oh, no, there was never that expectation.

[Assistant] Okay. And you knew that?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So that language is an incidental benefit, but it's not essential to the job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So that language is an incidental benefit, but it's not essential to the job?

[User] Right. No, it was not essential. For the high school educators and for some of the others, it would be more essential to the job because technically Liberia is English speaking.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages.

[Assistant] So, and is Liberian English is also.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. No, it was not essential. For the high school educators and for some of the others, it would be more essential to the job because technically Liberia is English speaking.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages.

[Assistant] So, and is Liberian English is also.

[User] Different.

[Assistant] Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As well as, and for Liberians, English is the lingua franca because everybody else speaks, you know, a panoply of languages.

[Assistant] So, and is Liberian English is also.

[User] Different.

[Assistant] Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment.

[User] It was a patois, yes.

[Assistant] Tuning into that language as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Different.

[Assistant] Different than American English and Ghanaian. So there was the adjustment.

[User] It was a patois, yes.

[Assistant] Tuning into that language as well.

[User] Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of.

[Assistant] Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a patois, yes.

[Assistant] Tuning into that language as well.

[User] Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of.

[Assistant] Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?

[User] They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects.

[Assistant] Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. But that happened um, in, in Tennessee, it happened in Nashville. We were training, we were, part of our training consisted of.

[Assistant] Then there were Liberians there and just interacting you began to?

[User] They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects.

[Assistant] Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday.

[User] Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah.

[Assistant] Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were there expressly to, as host country nationals, to teach us Liberian English and various other cross-cultural aspects.

[Assistant] Right, right. So now training has to come to an end someday.

[User] Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah.

[Assistant] Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?

[User] In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point.

[Assistant] Were deselected, not self selected?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it finally did. And then we went upon our work. And, uh, so, yeah.

[Assistant] Now did the family then came together in Gbarnga?

[User] In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point.

[Assistant] Were deselected, not self selected?

[User] Some of both.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Gbarnga, yeah. And, uh, we were. I guess we were sworn in again. We were actually sworn in. Well, we guess we were sworn in in- country. That's really what it was. There was a big swearing in and that's where it took place. And some people left after all of the training. They didn't get sworn in. They went home. They were about 4 or 5 who were deselected at that point.

[Assistant] Were deselected, not self selected?

[User] Some of both.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?

[User] No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of both.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was that a surprise to you?

[User] No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] But you were assigned throughout the country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. A couple. There was one person who really just was using it as a vehicle to hook up with this boyfriend she had to get. So she had, well actually, there were two of them who did something like that. There was another guy who had come on board who, he was Arab. And so he was using it as a vehicle to get back to make some contacts with a construction company that actually worked in Liberia that he knew about. And so he deselected and went to work for them.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. Had the group developed much of a group spirit and?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] But you were assigned throughout the country.

[User] Yes. And so we kept in touch. We often would visit.

[Assistant] Well, sometimes it's a wrench when training is finally over. And then the group that's become congenial, all of a sudden you're.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And so we kept in touch. We often would visit.

[Assistant] Well, sometimes it's a wrench when training is finally over. And then the group that's become congenial, all of a sudden you're.

[User] Far flung. But we would support one another by visiting.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] We'd take the money bus or whatever it was and go to visit them, or they'd come to visit us. I had people passing through my house all the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So, okay now, let's again, you settled in the town. Let's talk about two things. One would be how the domestic arrangements worked out, including relation to the children. And then we'll talk about your initial settling into the job. So let's talk about the house you had, the way you were living.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Far flung. But we would support one another by visiting.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] We'd take the money bus or whatever it was and go to visit them, or they'd come to visit us. I had people passing through my house all the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So, okay now, let's again, you settled in the town. Let's talk about two things. One would be how the domestic arrangements worked out, including relation to the children. And then we'll talk about your initial settling into the job. So let's talk about the house you had, the way you were living.

[User] So after we left the principal's house, we finally had a house on BWI's compound. It was okay. It was allegedly furnished and we had to get some things made. Fortunately, my husband was a carpenter and worked in the shop and he and the head of the shop made some of the extra furniture that we needed. And I could sew. So, you know, I just sewed curtains and made bedspreads and lots of other things. You know, that, that wasn't anything new to me so.

[Assistant] Was it considered acceptable or to have someone working for you to help with the cooking and the cleaning or the childcare?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, so managing them could be a bit of a problem. I think we had two.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Ultimately. Um. And the first one didn't work out. After about two weeks, it was clear that we didn't want to do that. There was somebody else we had who I think was at BWI and he was someone my husband had met and that kind of worked out for a while. But in terms of the children, um, that was a bit of a problem because sometimes they weren't as reliable as we would have liked. And so my children were actually school aged.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, I mean, there was a preschool available, so. Oh, I should also say that we lived in Gbarnga and we also lived ultimately in Monrovia. Um, so.

[Assistant] Let's stay with Gbarnga initially.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I mean, there was a preschool available, so. Oh, I should also say that we lived in Gbarnga and we also lived ultimately in Monrovia. Um, so.

[Assistant] Let's stay with Gbarnga initially.

[User] Right. And so in Gbarnga, what, where were they in school? They weren't in school in Gbarnga.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] Um, I'm sorry. We were in Kakata, Gbarnga, and then Monrovia.

[Assistant] Okay, that's fine.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We actually go, I go back to Gbarnga, but that's, that's coming.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Uh, in Kakata, they were not in school, but we had a neighbor who was the wife of the, uh, hmm, of the person who worked in the shop with my husband. And so she looked after our kids during the day.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities.

[Assistant] And the kids were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, in Kakata, they were not in school, but we had a neighbor who was the wife of the, uh, hmm, of the person who worked in the shop with my husband. And so she looked after our kids during the day.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities.

[Assistant] And the kids were?

[User] Oh, they were adaptive. At that age, they're, you know, my kids are.

[Assistant] There are a lot of changes, you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she had children, too, so they were doing things. And I think my son actually went to some little school with her son or something. But it was, it was right in that compound. So it wasn't like they were going anywhere. It was a little school down there and they did some preschool activities.

[Assistant] And the kids were?

[User] Oh, they were adaptive. At that age, they're, you know, my kids are.

[Assistant] There are a lot of changes, you know.

[User] Well.

[Assistant] But mommy and daddy are around so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It, BWI, because it was a high school, they would do something called culture shows with each tribe would have a day when they would do their thing.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And so they got accustomed to culture shows all the time where people would be playing music and dancing and, you know, showing off their culture.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things.

[Assistant] Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they got accustomed to culture shows all the time where people would be playing music and dancing and, you know, showing off their culture.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things.

[Assistant] Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?

[User] Yes. But when we were in the Netherlands Antilles they could speak Dutch too.

[Assistant] At only five.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they could even tell you which culture they identified with and which ones they liked. And there was just plenty to do. You're out in nature. You're, you know, and at what, three, four and five, you are chasing things.

[Assistant] Did their language shift over to Liberian accented English?

[User] Yes. But when we were in the Netherlands Antilles they could speak Dutch too.

[Assistant] At only five.

[User] So they're in a Dutch school for one. Got to meet Queen Bea, Princess Beatrix at that point. But yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Let's talk about your initial professional work. What's the job you had?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they're in a Dutch school for one. Got to meet Queen Bea, Princess Beatrix at that point. But yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Let's talk about your initial professional work. What's the job you had?

[User] Um, I was actually doing pre-service teacher training, which that meant was I was actually teaching students who were going out to be teachers.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so I was teaching a methodology class and, um, an psych course in educational psychology.

[Assistant] Now they would be going out to teach at the elementary level, wouldn't they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I was teaching a methodology class and, um, an psych course in educational psychology.

[Assistant] Now they would be going out to teach at the elementary level, wouldn't they?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Secondary?

[User] I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Secondary?

[User] I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English.

[User] It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers.

[Assistant] Ghana was that way, too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was teaching ones who were going out to secondary.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. And your language of instruction was English.

[User] It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers.

[Assistant] Ghana was that way, too.

[User] Yeah. So.

[Assistant] Describe a classroom setting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was English, yeah. And what was interesting to me is that there were more men enrolled in my classes than there were women. Because, you know, our expectation is that women go out to be teachers. In West Africa at that time, mostly men were going out to be teachers.

[Assistant] Ghana was that way, too.

[User] Yeah. So.

[Assistant] Describe a classroom setting.

[User] Well, a classroom setting was very much like any college classroom setting anywhere, except the students were older. Had generally had a little bit of experience as a teacher already, but were coming there to get a credential, or a teaching certificate. Um.

[Assistant] Concrete block buildings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, no, this was kind of more like a college setting.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I mean, but in a country where you have natural air conditioning. So you had the jealousy windows, the concrete block, and nice clothes and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia.

[Assistant] How large were the classes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, but in a country where you have natural air conditioning. So you had the jealousy windows, the concrete block, and nice clothes and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia.

[Assistant] How large were the classes?

[User] I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60.

[Assistant] Do you recall how the students addressed you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, like schools, colleges you see in Mexico and other places. Yeah. Um, well supplied, except we had mimeograph machines in those days and not computers. Computers were just making their way into Liberia, but they certainly weren't in, at the teacher training institutes. They were at the University of Liberia.

[Assistant] How large were the classes?

[User] I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60.

[Assistant] Do you recall how the students addressed you?

[User] Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor.

[Assistant] And how did you address the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had a class. They were actually large. One of my classes was, uh, probably about 35 to 40 students. And I had another class that was larger than that, about 50 to 60.

[Assistant] Do you recall how the students addressed you?

[User] Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor.

[Assistant] And how did you address the students?

[User] Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so.

[Assistant] Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh. Madam. Sir. Prof. Professor.

[Assistant] And how did you address the students?

[User] Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so.

[Assistant] Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn.

[User] It took a little, you know, and Americans do the first name basis. But again, in our pre, our training in the U.S., we were already instructed on those basics. Because you're a teacher, so you have to get it right the day you walk in the door.

[Assistant] Right. And of course, you're walking in with a lot of experience anyway.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh. By their last name and Ms. or Mr. So-and-so.

[Assistant] Yeah. It must have taken some time to learn.

[User] It took a little, you know, and Americans do the first name basis. But again, in our pre, our training in the U.S., we were already instructed on those basics. Because you're a teacher, so you have to get it right the day you walk in the door.

[Assistant] Right. And of course, you're walking in with a lot of experience anyway.

[User] Right. And so for me to walk in a female, one, and at that time I looked much younger than I actually was because I've spent most of my life looking 10 or 15 years younger than I really was. They didn't believe that I was, uh, what? A, they didn't believe I had the credentials to be there. And they just thought, you know. So my first day of class, my students questioned the validity of me being there in the first place.

[Assistant] Did they confront you directly or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And so for me to walk in a female, one, and at that time I looked much younger than I actually was because I've spent most of my life looking 10 or 15 years younger than I really was. They didn't believe that I was, uh, what? A, they didn't believe I had the credentials to be there. And they just thought, you know. So my first day of class, my students questioned the validity of me being there in the first place.

[Assistant] Did they confront you directly or?

[User] It was in class.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] You know, they weren't belligerent or bellicose or anything, but, uh, they wanted to make sure that I had the right credentials to be there.

[Assistant] Were you surprised by that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, they weren't belligerent or bellicose or anything, but, uh, they wanted to make sure that I had the right credentials to be there.

[Assistant] Were you surprised by that?

[User] I was, absolutely. You know, it's the first time I've ever walked into a classroom where people asked me what were, what was my experience.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, that's not something that happens. Generally when you, if you get a job to do something, they know that you, you should be there. But for them, A, I was a woman. Two, I looked.

[Assistant] Which is not common, I gather?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was, absolutely. You know, it's the first time I've ever walked into a classroom where people asked me what were, what was my experience.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, that's not something that happens. Generally when you, if you get a job to do something, they know that you, you should be there. But for them, A, I was a woman. Two, I looked.

[Assistant] Which is not common, I gather?

[User] Which is not common. They had never had a female teacher before and certainly not a black female.

[Assistant] Right. Was that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Which is not common. They had never had a female teacher before and certainly not a black female.

[Assistant] Right. Was that.

[User] The one female person that they had had was an older white woman.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And no, just that I was female and looked very young.

[Assistant] Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The one female person that they had had was an older white woman.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And no, just that I was female and looked very young.

[Assistant] Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And no, just that I was female and looked very young.

[Assistant] Yeah. Had, had Peace Corps been at that school before?

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] But the first married couple with children or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] So you were not the first Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] But the first married couple with children or?

[User] Yeah. There was a woman who had been there. She's white. Was she, did she teach there? I'm trying to think. Uh, yeah, but she had married a Liberian guy, so. No, she wasn't there. She was at another teacher trainer institute, but she had been there before me. And so she told me a bit of this. She had been challenged in the same way.

[Assistant] Yeah. In the town, were there are lots of Peace Corps people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. There was a woman who had been there. She's white. Was she, did she teach there? I'm trying to think. Uh, yeah, but she had married a Liberian guy, so. No, she wasn't there. She was at another teacher trainer institute, but she had been there before me. And so she told me a bit of this. She had been challenged in the same way.

[Assistant] Yeah. In the town, were there are lots of Peace Corps people?

[User] No. They had had, they knew Peace Corps people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, generally in Liberia, if you reach the point where at you're at a post-secondary, you would have had an experience with a, you would have had a Peace Corps teacher at some point, by that time.

[Assistant] So to the students, did the fact that you came in and said, well, I'm a Peace Corps teacher, or did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. They had had, they knew Peace Corps people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, generally in Liberia, if you reach the point where at you're at a post-secondary, you would have had an experience with a, you would have had a Peace Corps teacher at some point, by that time.

[Assistant] So to the students, did the fact that you came in and said, well, I'm a Peace Corps teacher, or did you?

[User] I didn't say that. I was introduced to them, formally introduced by the principal of the school.

[Assistant] Right. Without reference to the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't say that. I was introduced to them, formally introduced by the principal of the school.

[Assistant] Right. Without reference to the Peace Corps?

[User] Without reference to Peace Corps, although they knew I was that Peace Corps woman.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, but I gather that was just an initial?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Without reference to Peace Corps, although they knew I was that Peace Corps woman.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, but I gather that was just an initial?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] Or did that continue through your teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, I put that to rest right then and there. No, I was skilled. I knew what to do. And when I, when I spoke back with the headmaster of the school or whatever he was called, I can't remember, um, you know, he thought they were insolent. So he was prepared to go and give them what for the next day. I said, no, don't do that. I said, they, I can understand why they wanted to know. And I didn't take it as an affront, you know. And I handled it in such a way that they, A, they knew that they should never ask that kind of question to me again. But, you know, I was totally, I respect their need to need to know. But basically, you know, like a lot of people do, A, they're going to test you. B, you're a woman and it's a very misogynist environment.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] In the first place. And so, uh, so I handled it. And after that I had no problem with anybody in that class. None. Not cheating, not anything.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females.

[Assistant] At the same school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the first place. And so, uh, so I handled it. And after that I had no problem with anybody in that class. None. Not cheating, not anything.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females.

[Assistant] At the same school?

[User] At the same school. There were more women in that class. And, um, you know, that was my first experience with people just cheating wholesale, you know, bringing in a cheat sheet and then denying it when they were confronted. What? You know.

[Assistant] For those students, this was a desired career track, I mean, it represented solid employment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The other group, you know, I had experience with people cheating. There were more females.

[Assistant] At the same school?

[User] At the same school. There were more women in that class. And, um, you know, that was my first experience with people just cheating wholesale, you know, bringing in a cheat sheet and then denying it when they were confronted. What? You know.

[Assistant] For those students, this was a desired career track, I mean, it represented solid employment?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Did you have much opportunity, again with the Gbarnga, for informal contact with the students, or was the pattern just you taught and you'd come back to the house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, and then you lose control.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So one of the things that was very clear. We lived in a compound with teachers who taught at BWI were, and students didn't come into that compound unless they were invited to come into that compound. That would have, that would have been a profound mistake.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because then the lines of authority are blurred and those lines of authority are very critical to Liberians.

[Assistant] One of the classic problems that American teachers have going overseas to teach is the style of learning, the rote learning versus what we might consider a somewhat more challenging, unstructured question answer. Did you encounter that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we were prepared for that, again, in our training stateside. That was, Peabody was an excellent place for us to train.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, because it was very, that was what we, we were learning as pedagogy. We didn't need content.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] We needed culture specific pedagogy. And that was what we did.

[Assistant] And so you were ready to handle it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We needed culture specific pedagogy. And that was what we did.

[Assistant] And so you were ready to handle it?

[User] We were ready to handle that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that came as no surprise.

[Assistant] Okay. And, uh, how did you evaluate the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were ready to handle that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that came as no surprise.

[Assistant] Okay. And, uh, how did you evaluate the students?

[User] The same way I do in the States, through testing. Yeah.

[Assistant] Did, uh, were they preparing to go out student teaching and did you observe them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The same way I do in the States, through testing. Yeah.

[Assistant] Did, uh, were they preparing to go out student teaching and did you observe them?

[User] No, I didn't. Student teaching would happen in the content specific areas. What I was doing in the teacher training area, I was. Let me think. Like I said, I taught educational methods.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision.

[Assistant] Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't. Student teaching would happen in the content specific areas. What I was doing in the teacher training area, I was. Let me think. Like I said, I taught educational methods.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision.

[Assistant] Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working.

[User] At BWI just across the road, like.

[Assistant] So that the family was close and your living conditions were comfortable.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I thought it was a psych course. And so those don't require that level of supervision.

[Assistant] Yeah. In the meantime, your husband is working.

[User] At BWI just across the road, like.

[Assistant] So that the family was close and your living conditions were comfortable.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps come out to take a look, see how you're doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they weren't putting you in sight unseen accommodations, by and large.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] They knew of, whoever had, was responsible for your job, was responsible for the housing. So there were a few incidents out in the hinterland where some volunteers might decide that they didn't want that specific accommodation that had been Peace Corps provided.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they would find something else. You could do that, there was enough flexibility to do that. In the case where we were living when we were in Kakata, the housing was considered higher end. It was very nice accommodation by Liberian standards, so it was not an issue.

[Assistant] Yeah. How were you being paid?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They knew of, whoever had, was responsible for your job, was responsible for the housing. So there were a few incidents out in the hinterland where some volunteers might decide that they didn't want that specific accommodation that had been Peace Corps provided.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they would find something else. You could do that, there was enough flexibility to do that. In the case where we were living when we were in Kakata, the housing was considered higher end. It was very nice accommodation by Liberian standards, so it was not an issue.

[Assistant] Yeah. How were you being paid?

[User] Uh, it was money deposited in bank account somewhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I shouldn't ever forget having to do the bank thing. The Bank of Liberia. Yeah. In Monrovia. All deposits were there. And so basically once a month, because Liberia is heavily centralized, people had to make their way in town to get money.

[Assistant] And you just get a stash of money?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, it was money deposited in bank account somewhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I shouldn't ever forget having to do the bank thing. The Bank of Liberia. Yeah. In Monrovia. All deposits were there. And so basically once a month, because Liberia is heavily centralized, people had to make their way in town to get money.

[Assistant] And you just get a stash of money?

[User] You'd get a stash of money, or you'd live off your money in such a way that you didn't have to come in all the time.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But people who lived closer in wanted to come in all the time because Monrovia is like a fry, you know?

[Assistant] How did you, uh, how did you travel around in the country? Let's take the first 4 to 6 weeks there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we had a bit of privilege. Now, when I was a volunteer, volunteers were not allowed to have cars.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Teacher trainers were actually given Suzuki dirt bikes. So I had a dirt bike and ultimately I really didn't use it. I gave it away.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was just too hot, you know, basically. And with teaching, you had to wear dresses all the time. And it was just, you know, it's not the image you see of dirt bikes on TV and ads and stuff. It's nothing glamorous about being on a dirt bike.

[Assistant] But was the idea that you would possibly be going out to supervise?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just too hot, you know, basically. And with teaching, you had to wear dresses all the time. And it was just, you know, it's not the image you see of dirt bikes on TV and ads and stuff. It's nothing glamorous about being on a dirt bike.

[Assistant] But was the idea that you would possibly be going out to supervise?

[User] Yeah, because you would do in-service and you'd be. And so some of us were pre-service teacher trainers, which is what I was.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And we had some in-service teacher trainers. So I just gave my bike to some other Peace Corps volunteer who was doing rural development. It was no big deal.

[Assistant] Weren't you tempted to buy a car?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was forbidden.

[Assistant] Well.

[User] Well, if you're not in that close in, you might get away with it. And some people had tried it, but when I was in Peace Corps, people really didn't violate those kinds of expectations.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Later on, when I was an APCD in Botswana, I was pretty horrified to see the Peace Corps, you know, because.

[Assistant] Different countries and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Later on, when I was an APCD in Botswana, I was pretty horrified to see the Peace Corps, you know, because.

[Assistant] Different countries and.

[User] Well, not only that, the standard had really changed.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] You know, when I was there, most people really wanted to have the village based experience. They weren't going there to hob nob with the elites of Liberia.

[Assistant] So then how, if you decided you wanted to go into Monrovia, how would you get there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, when I was there, most people really wanted to have the village based experience. They weren't going there to hob nob with the elites of Liberia.

[Assistant] So then how, if you decided you wanted to go into Monrovia, how would you get there?

[User] We'd take public transportation like everybody else. Now, if you had a little extra money, you can hire a taxi, which we did. But that was cheap. You know, when I was traveling with the children and we were coming into Monrovia.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] I just, I pretty learned very rapidly that it was best to just hire a taxi.

[Assistant] Right. And was there a Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We'd take public transportation like everybody else. Now, if you had a little extra money, you can hire a taxi, which we did. But that was cheap. You know, when I was traveling with the children and we were coming into Monrovia.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] I just, I pretty learned very rapidly that it was best to just hire a taxi.

[Assistant] Right. And was there a Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia or?

[User] There was, but I didn't use it. By that time, I had friends who lived in Monrovia, and so I always had really fairly nice places to stay.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, so how long were you at Gbarnga?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was, but I didn't use it. By that time, I had friends who lived in Monrovia, and so I always had really fairly nice places to stay.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, so how long were you at Gbarnga?

[User] Well, I was in Kakata at first. The Gbarnga thing was just a teacher training episode. I was in Kakata for about, hmm. Well, certainly a full term.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me.

[Assistant] And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was in Kakata at first. The Gbarnga thing was just a teacher training episode. I was in Kakata for about, hmm. Well, certainly a full term.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me.

[Assistant] And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Okay. And so now you're moving into a new job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then it began to put stress on the marriage. Not for that reason, but my husband started spinning out of control a little bit. So I decided that it was time for us to split. And so I took a different position in Gbarnga on a different project. So I got a reassignment and the children came with me.

[Assistant] And you negotiated that with the Peace Corps?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Okay. And so now you're moving into a new job?

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] And what was the new job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] And what was the new job?

[User] The new job was actually working on a curriculum materials development project. That was an AID sponsored project.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And they actually needed a teacher trainer to help liaise from the Liberian technical staff curriculum development specialists to the American specialists who had no clue about Liberia. They had brought in this team from Bloomington, Indiana.

[Assistant] It sounds so much like AID.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I moved. We moved onto the Methodist mission, which is a place I had come to know from my early training there. And as you're around, you develop relationships with people anyway. And the Methodist mission at that point was headed up by somebody from the U.S. whom I knew. He was with the United Methodists, I guess it was. And so it was a good place. And my children went to school at Cuttington University Hospital, and Cuttington College was the best university at that time in Liberia.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Better than the University of Liberia.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so that worked out very well.

[Assistant] Right. And, uh, you were, who was your immediate supervisor then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that worked out very well.

[Assistant] Right. And, uh, you were, who was your immediate supervisor then?

[User] The people, the head of the AID project.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] It was, it was called the Improved Efficiency, IEL project. Improved Efficiency of Learning project.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were considered to be responsible to them more than to a Liberian entity or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or curriculum materials development. And then he hired a couple of other people from the U.S. who were recommended to the project from people he was associated with. And it turned out that one of those people was a friend of mine.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And so anyway, so it was like, you know, to see them walking down the road one day and you go, no, it can't be them. That's a mirage.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then later that evening there was a basketball game and I took my children to the basketball game because it's right on the mission. And sitting in the audience is this friend. It's like, what are you doing here? You know, so. So we're here working on this project. I said, it can't be. And so, yeah.

[Assistant] So but, and they were all being paid AID type salaries.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so anyway, so it was like, you know, to see them walking down the road one day and you go, no, it can't be them. That's a mirage.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then later that evening there was a basketball game and I took my children to the basketball game because it's right on the mission. And sitting in the audience is this friend. It's like, what are you doing here? You know, so. So we're here working on this project. I said, it can't be. And so, yeah.

[Assistant] So but, and they were all being paid AID type salaries.

[User] They were. But I wasn't.

[Assistant] And you were still.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it just turned into a mess. So at that point, AID and the Indiana people had to reformulate what they were going to do.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The ministry was getting increasingly impatient with them. They felt that they were being paid for and weren't delivering a product. And then furthermore, what had also happened pretty much across the board, the Ministry of Education was beginning to feel that they were being compelled to bring in programs and projects they really didn't want. And that was one of them.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So at the point where the project is, is losing its way, then I was offered a transfer to Monrovia.

[Assistant] But when you went into it initially, were you aware of much of that background or did it sort of unfold?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The ministry was getting increasingly impatient with them. They felt that they were being paid for and weren't delivering a product. And then furthermore, what had also happened pretty much across the board, the Ministry of Education was beginning to feel that they were being compelled to bring in programs and projects they really didn't want. And that was one of them.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So at the point where the project is, is losing its way, then I was offered a transfer to Monrovia.

[Assistant] But when you went into it initially, were you aware of much of that background or did it sort of unfold?

[User] It unfolded as I was there. I was good. I was doing what I was asked to do, and I was actually doing more than I was asked to do because I was, I was effective. I was helping them bridge and get stuff done.

[Assistant] At any point, did you say to yourself, why doesn't AID just hire me? Why do they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It unfolded as I was there. I was good. I was doing what I was asked to do, and I was actually doing more than I was asked to do because I was, I was effective. I was helping them bridge and get stuff done.

[Assistant] At any point, did you say to yourself, why doesn't AID just hire me? Why do they?

[User] Well, we had talked about that. And at one point I had kind of pursued that option.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID.

[Assistant] So now, uh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we had talked about that. And at one point I had kind of pursued that option.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID.

[Assistant] So now, uh.

[User] But there was another reason, we're going to come to that in the chronology of things.

[Assistant] So as you're now, the project's in trouble and you're aware of it, although it has some viable elements, that you then shift over to Monrovia.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, there was a job offer ultimately, but I turned it down. And the reason why I did is because I wanted to come back to Chicago and do a PhD. I didn't want to stay in Liberia and work for AID.

[Assistant] So now, uh.

[User] But there was another reason, we're going to come to that in the chronology of things.

[Assistant] So as you're now, the project's in trouble and you're aware of it, although it has some viable elements, that you then shift over to Monrovia.

[User] Right. So I get a new house.

[Assistant] Okay. You must be accustomed by now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In area called, they called. Well, what was it called? It's right on the beach. Um, it's right over by the Swedish Embassy. What was that place called? Anyway, it's a little village that sat off the main road into town. Sinkor. Yeah. Sinkor. And it is, it's got the Swedish Embassy for my nearest neighbor. And on the other side, I've got the village of Sinkor right on the other side. And I've got the beach, which was fine.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was a brand new house built by this doctor. And so it was fine.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] It was fine.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps approved?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that worked. And I went to work for the Ministry of Education.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And the Deputy Minister for curriculum.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Right next to the World Bank person. And ultimately got asked to evaluate the very program I had worked on.

[Assistant] So that's an interesting situation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right next to the World Bank person. And ultimately got asked to evaluate the very program I had worked on.

[Assistant] So that's an interesting situation.

[User] Yes, it was. So I just evaluated, well, the person I was working for was a nun, and she was really very nice. I mean, she was serious, but they were having problems with the program. And so I gave them the evaluation.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Which were that there were some serious flaws.

[Assistant] Yeah. This may be a personal question, but did Peace Corps try to mediate at all between you and your husband or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. So I just evaluated, well, the person I was working for was a nun, and she was really very nice. I mean, she was serious, but they were having problems with the program. And so I gave them the evaluation.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Which were that there were some serious flaws.

[Assistant] Yeah. This may be a personal question, but did Peace Corps try to mediate at all between you and your husband or?

[User] No, no, no. No, no. They accepted.

[Assistant] And so that wasn't an issue at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Other than maybe the rental of another house.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] But. And they would have had to have paid for separate volunteers if we'd been separate.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So in that sense, it wasn't. Yeah. It didn't cost them anything.

[Assistant] But the expectation was that you would end your tour of duty at the same time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So in that sense, it wasn't. Yeah. It didn't cost them anything.

[Assistant] But the expectation was that you would end your tour of duty at the same time?

[User] That was the expectation.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was the expectation.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?

[User] Let me put it this way. There were other events that took.

[Assistant] You were diplomatic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But too changed due to circumstances well beyond our control.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, so let's. Anything further about. You settled into Liberia, into Monrovia, with the job, with the ministry and curriculum development. You're evaluating the AID project. Did anyone from AID kind of try to pull you aside and say, give us a break, or anyone from the Bloomington?

[User] Let me put it this way. There were other events that took.

[Assistant] You were diplomatic.

[User] No, there were just other events that made those issues irrelevant.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The other events were the Easter riots, rice riots that took place not long after I had come to Monrovia, and the coup that took place.

[Assistant] Ah, okay.

[User] And so after, within about, what? Maybe four months of being there.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] It just didn't matter.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, briefly describe the coup. It was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the coup in Liberia in 1978 [1980].

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Well, culminated in the execution of the former, the head of state.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And 13 other people.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. And who was the leader of the coup?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, who was the leader? Samuel K. Doe.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And he murdered then President Tolbert.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah. And 12 of his ministers, including the Minister of Education. Oh, no, well, no, she went into hiding, but her brother was wound up in jail. Yes.

[Assistant] Now, during this period, one, how did you hear about the coup? And two, what was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And 12 of his ministers, including the Minister of Education. Oh, no, well, no, she went into hiding, but her brother was wound up in jail. Yes.

[Assistant] Now, during this period, one, how did you hear about the coup? And two, what was?

[User] Well, that didn't take much. We're right on the beach, right on the main drag. And we see the tanks rolling up the street.

[Assistant] Ah, okay.

[User] No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this.

[Assistant] Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that didn't take much. We're right on the beach, right on the main drag. And we see the tanks rolling up the street.

[Assistant] Ah, okay.

[User] No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this.

[Assistant] Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?

[User] Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated.

[Assistant] Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we were there. We were there. We had a front row seat to most of this.

[Assistant] Now, what did Peace Corps do at that point?

[User] Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated.

[Assistant] Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?

[User] No. Within a month.

[Assistant] Okay. During that month.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, Peace Corps insisted that because we were a family, like all other American families, we were evacuated.

[Assistant] Okay. Someone showed up at the door the next day?

[User] No. Within a month.

[Assistant] Okay. During that month.

[User] Yeah. Or within a month. I can't say whether it's the whole month.

[Assistant] Did you, did you feel at all at risk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Or within a month. I can't say whether it's the whole month.

[Assistant] Did you, did you feel at all at risk?

[User] It was a dreadful time for my kids because they didn't understand the military convoys going up and down the street and all the shooting. I mean, we were indoors when the coup took place because it happened in the small hours of the night.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And the presidential palace was far from where we lived, so we didn't have that kind of action. But the rioting and the looting and stuff they saw.

[Assistant] Oh, they did?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so he just remembered the child, someone having to come to explain to all the other children what had happened to the man's father, who had been hung.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Yeah. And these guys had been basically placed on poles and shot.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Yeah. And lined up all along the beach.

[Assistant] So you were becoming aware of this as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And lined up all along the beach.

[Assistant] So you were becoming aware of this as well?

[User] Aware of?

[Assistant] The execution?

[User] Oh, it was public. It was public. It was played up in the American press. Those heads, those pictures went around the world.

[Assistant] Were you still going to work during that month or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not far. There was a point on which we ventured to the Peace Corps office and places. We had, and one of the other things that happened to us is I had some friends at AID, as I said, the person who was over education, and she invited us to stay at her house.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And so for part of that time, we actually stayed at her house.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And lots of times we would stay there when we were coming to Monrovia, even when we didn't live there so. And it had guards, military, U.S. guards and stuff.

[Assistant] How did you become aware that Peace Corps was pulling out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And lots of times we would stay there when we were coming to Monrovia, even when we didn't live there so. And it had guards, military, U.S. guards and stuff.

[Assistant] How did you become aware that Peace Corps was pulling out?

[User] Oh, Peace Corps didn't pull out.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Well, what happened was only the family of American personnel were forced to evacuate. Wives and children. And men stayed. My husband stayed, but we left in July of '70 [sic], of '80.

[Assistant] You didn't protest?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, Peace Corps didn't pull out.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Well, what happened was only the family of American personnel were forced to evacuate. Wives and children. And men stayed. My husband stayed, but we left in July of '70 [sic], of '80.

[Assistant] You didn't protest?

[User] There was no protesting.

[Assistant] Okay. I mean, protest may be the wrong word.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was no protesting.

[Assistant] Okay. I mean, protest may be the wrong word.

[User] No, you couldn't, you know. No, it was not an option.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, basically, no. I said we wanted to stay.

[Assistant] Yeah, but you'd seen the impact on your children.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, basically, no. I said we wanted to stay.

[Assistant] Yeah, but you'd seen the impact on your children.

[User] Yeah, because school was discontinued.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And, but, you know, services went on. But it was, it was a wise thing to do because things, as you know, in Liberia went to hell after that.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, um.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, but, you know, services went on. But it was, it was a wise thing to do because things, as you know, in Liberia went to hell after that.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, um.

[User] But basically the people who served in my cohort were able to serve their terms.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And there was no evacuation of Peace Corps at that point.

[Assistant] Okay. But you and the kids. Were there any, any other, uh. I guess it was always wives and children.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But basically the people who served in my cohort were able to serve their terms.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And there was no evacuation of Peace Corps at that point.

[Assistant] Okay. But you and the kids. Were there any, any other, uh. I guess it was always wives and children.

[User] So wives and children of.

[Assistant] Were you the only Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So wives and children of.

[Assistant] Were you the only Peace Corps?

[User] No, we were the only Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk.

[Assistant] What did they do with you? I mean, where?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we were the only Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk.

[Assistant] What did they do with you? I mean, where?

[User] They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed.

[Assistant] Where'd you debrief, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's what I'm saying. Because we were a spouse of American personnel overseas in a country that was at risk.

[Assistant] What did they do with you? I mean, where?

[User] They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed.

[Assistant] Where'd you debrief, I mean?

[User] In Washington.

[Assistant] At AID or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They put us on a plane and sent us back to Washington and we debriefed.

[Assistant] Where'd you debrief, I mean?

[User] In Washington.

[Assistant] At AID or?

[User] Uh, no, at Peace Corps.

[Assistant] But you were the only one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Washington.

[Assistant] At AID or?

[User] Uh, no, at Peace Corps.

[Assistant] But you were the only one.

[User] I was the only one.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay. And did Peace Corps have any kind of emergency plans in place before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they were always prepared to do emergency evacuations. I mean, where Peace Corps is, they're prepared.

[Assistant] By then.

[User] Yeah. Well, they always, well, my sense is they always were. No?

[Assistant] No.

[User] Oh. By the time I was there, they had, oh yeah. No. There was nothing like. Yeah.

[Assistant] And they, and they were prepared to handle it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. And so that was why they had us leave.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So, no, it wasn't. Peace Corps volunteers were never at risk.

[Assistant] Yeah, but it must have been really unsettling for you. Now you're back ahead of when you expected to return.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So, no, it wasn't. Peace Corps volunteers were never at risk.

[Assistant] Yeah, but it must have been really unsettling for you. Now you're back ahead of when you expected to return.

[User] Yeah, no, it was okay because I had already been applying to graduate school, so it just made it possible to start when I needed to start. It was no biggie.

[Assistant] And at that point with the kids, you went back to Chicago?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, no, it was okay because I had already been applying to graduate school, so it just made it possible to start when I needed to start. It was no biggie.

[Assistant] And at that point with the kids, you went back to Chicago?

[User] I came back to Chicago.

[Assistant] All right.

[User] And enrolled in a PhD program.

[Assistant] I have to, uh. [tape break] Okay, let's, uh. So when, after you're back, you come back to Chicago, you're going back to school. Was it much of a shock coming back to the U.S.? People talk about the reverse culture shock.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there always is in the sense that you have to kind of adjust to the fact that you're not in the same place.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, you're not going to walk to the beach. You're not going to go to the market. People are not going to say hello as being as open as they are.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, so those kinds of changes, yeah, there's a little bit of discontinuity, but otherwise, no.

[Assistant] And the kids, I mean by now they're?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that was difficult, coming back into, into the States, you know, because American children aren't interested in other places. So they could care less that they had lived abroad or anywhere else because the only thing that matters to them is, excuse me, the immediate and football and the other things. My son plunged right in. My daughter, she had a much more difficult time adjusting because then. You know, American society, its values with respect to beauty and other things are vastly different from. And also not just that among children, but even among adults and how adults deal with children.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, so that required adjustment for them. And because they had the experience of shaking hands with the president of a country or the queen of a nation, you know.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, I can see where it'd be.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, so that required adjustment for them. And because they had the experience of shaking hands with the president of a country or the queen of a nation, you know.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, I can see where it'd be.

[User] You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know.

[Assistant] So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Those are experiences ordinary children don't have, you know. So, you know, they were much more sophisticated in some ways and much more down to earth in some other ways. So it was like. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, I can see where it'd be.

[User] You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know.

[Assistant] So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, coming back to the U.S. and having to deal with the school stuff where things are just really different. Even though we live in a, in Hyde Park, which is a neighborhood that's, you know, quite different from most. It's not like your average, but still there were issues.

[Assistant] Yeah. So now you, you had a continuing career with the Peace Corps and we'll talk about some of it. You said you at one point did some teacher training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, so it's a little, you know, and I think most children who go abroad have that kind of an experience because most countries are small enough whereby, you know, people are accessible. It's like here. You live in Madison, right? You get to see your governor all the time. You know who people are. So, you know, or going to school with the people. I mean, living in the neighborhood where your teacher is your neighbor, you know.

[Assistant] So your adjustment may have been difficult mostly through the kids.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, coming back to the U.S. and having to deal with the school stuff where things are just really different. Even though we live in a, in Hyde Park, which is a neighborhood that's, you know, quite different from most. It's not like your average, but still there were issues.

[Assistant] Yeah. So now you, you had a continuing career with the Peace Corps and we'll talk about some of it. You said you at one point did some teacher training.

[User] Yeah, I was called back to do some Peace Corps training as an RPCV. You know, the way they utilize returned volunteers to help them with their cross-cultural pieces and other pieces. And so I did that. And in fact, both of those trainings were right here in Washington. Well, right in Washington.

[Assistant] And what were they for, Liberia or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was called back to do some Peace Corps training as an RPCV. You know, the way they utilize returned volunteers to help them with their cross-cultural pieces and other pieces. And so I did that. And in fact, both of those trainings were right here in Washington. Well, right in Washington.

[Assistant] And what were they for, Liberia or?

[User] Uh, they were both for Liberia. Um. There was a contractor, a contractor in, based in Washington, who had set up, who had gotten the contract and had set up. And so I worked for them.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And one of my jobs was working with the education volunteers and doing the cross-cultural component.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which and you were very comfortable with that.