[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think so. I know that some of the girls worked with their mother across the street in the marketplace. Um. I don't remember what boys were doing in particular.

[Assistant] Speaking of the marketplace, did you shop there often?

[User] Um, the girl who did our cooking and lived with us would shop there. I mean, I could go and walk around and stuff, but very strong smells from the marketplace.

[Assistant] Did you have an opportunity to travel at all in the country?

[User] Um, a little bit. They, Peace Corps must have brought us up from Harper City to Monrovia, maybe once or twice during a year. And because it was a fly-in post, you know, it wasn't something we could just get in a money bus and.

[Assistant] Harper was a fly-in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the girl who did our cooking and lived with us would shop there. I mean, I could go and walk around and stuff, but very strong smells from the marketplace.

[Assistant] Did you have an opportunity to travel at all in the country?

[User] Um, a little bit. They, Peace Corps must have brought us up from Harper City to Monrovia, maybe once or twice during a year. And because it was a fly-in post, you know, it wasn't something we could just get in a money bus and.

[Assistant] Harper was a fly-in?

[User] Yeah, but there was a road up, where there were volunteers up along this road that was headed toward the Ivory Coast, but it didn't go anywhere beyond that. It didn't connect to any place else. So if I was going to go visit my boyfriend, I had to walk overnight, stomp through the bush with guides. I went with several other volunteers. I remember we slept on a floor of a house halfway, and then we reached the end of another road. And then I had to cross the country to see him in a money bus.

[Assistant] Oh, in a money bus.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, a little bit. They, Peace Corps must have brought us up from Harper City to Monrovia, maybe once or twice during a year. And because it was a fly-in post, you know, it wasn't something we could just get in a money bus and.

[Assistant] Harper was a fly-in?

[User] Yeah, but there was a road up, where there were volunteers up along this road that was headed toward the Ivory Coast, but it didn't go anywhere beyond that. It didn't connect to any place else. So if I was going to go visit my boyfriend, I had to walk overnight, stomp through the bush with guides. I went with several other volunteers. I remember we slept on a floor of a house halfway, and then we reached the end of another road. And then I had to cross the country to see him in a money bus.

[Assistant] Oh, in a money bus.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But you were talking about being a fly-in. But there weren't planes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but there was a road up, where there were volunteers up along this road that was headed toward the Ivory Coast, but it didn't go anywhere beyond that. It didn't connect to any place else. So if I was going to go visit my boyfriend, I had to walk overnight, stomp through the bush with guides. I went with several other volunteers. I remember we slept on a floor of a house halfway, and then we reached the end of another road. And then I had to cross the country to see him in a money bus.

[Assistant] Oh, in a money bus.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But you were talking about being a fly-in. But there weren't planes?

[User]
There were planes, but we didn't have money for that. It was only if Peace Corps, I don't know, maybe for a holiday or something. They called us up to Monrovia. Or if we were sick, if there was a medical problem. But Harper had a small hospital with an older man who was a Frenchman. And at one point I remember I had an infection under my big toenail and I went there. I didn't tell the Peace Corps leader I needed to be flown to my, to. See, I was getting too independent and I just went to the hospital. The doctor said, oh, we need to pull your nail off. We'll put you to sleep. And I think they did it right then and there. I don't remember going home and coming back to the hospital. I have no idea what the operating room looked like because I was out.

They had an old, dilapidated car that was the ambulance that drove me a few, maybe a mile to my house. And I couldn't put my foot down. You know, your blood is pulsing in it. And I had to go up the stairs to my apartment on my rear end. And it was fine. But I don't know if anyone else went to the doctor at the local hospital. I really don't.

[Assistant] Now, this bus that you caught after hiking and then that bus took you up country. Describe the transportation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But you were talking about being a fly-in. But there weren't planes?

[User]
There were planes, but we didn't have money for that. It was only if Peace Corps, I don't know, maybe for a holiday or something. They called us up to Monrovia. Or if we were sick, if there was a medical problem. But Harper had a small hospital with an older man who was a Frenchman. And at one point I remember I had an infection under my big toenail and I went there. I didn't tell the Peace Corps leader I needed to be flown to my, to. See, I was getting too independent and I just went to the hospital. The doctor said, oh, we need to pull your nail off. We'll put you to sleep. And I think they did it right then and there. I don't remember going home and coming back to the hospital. I have no idea what the operating room looked like because I was out.

They had an old, dilapidated car that was the ambulance that drove me a few, maybe a mile to my house. And I couldn't put my foot down. You know, your blood is pulsing in it. And I had to go up the stairs to my apartment on my rear end. And it was fine. But I don't know if anyone else went to the doctor at the local hospital. I really don't.

[Assistant] Now, this bus that you caught after hiking and then that bus took you up country. Describe the transportation.

[User] Oh, a money bus is like a Volkswagen kind of thing and packed with people, with chickens, maybe a goat. Packed with people. Some people on the roof and people getting on and off all along the way. And you just hail it. And if it was too full, it wouldn't stop. If they thought they could squeeze one more person on, they did.

[Assistant] What were the roads like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Oh, terrible dirt roads. The soil is, what they taught us, it was laterite, which is a red kind of leached out soil that's very fine. In fact, we have it here in Hawaii. And you would come out filthy, red tinged, out of the bus. Holes, you know. I understand that after we left, some of the roads out of Monrovia got paid, paved. But since then, Liberia's had some awful history with an uprising of local people. There was this Sergeant Doe who became president, I think. But it's, unfortunately, I think it was never colonized.

I remember we took a vacation. There were enough Peace Corps volunteers for the vacation, summer vacation between the two school years that we were there, to charter a plane and we went to Kenya.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] There was a place in Kenya that had malted milkshakes. And then.

[Assistant] Luxury.

[User] Yeah, but, oh, what was I saying? The, uh, Liberia never had a postal system or banks or. There was a Dutch company, I think, that had a Volkswagen dealership, like a trained mechanic in the middle of the town. And I think we could cash a check or get money there.

[Assistant] Yeah, if there were no banks, how did you get your living allowance that Peace Corps provided?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a place in Kenya that had malted milkshakes. And then.

[Assistant] Luxury.

[User] Yeah, but, oh, what was I saying? The, uh, Liberia never had a postal system or banks or. There was a Dutch company, I think, that had a Volkswagen dealership, like a trained mechanic in the middle of the town. And I think we could cash a check or get money there.

[Assistant] Yeah, if there were no banks, how did you get your living allowance that Peace Corps provided?

[User] I don't remember. I guess it came to us through the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Now you mentioned a boyfriend that you went to visit. That was another volunteer, correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but, oh, what was I saying? The, uh, Liberia never had a postal system or banks or. There was a Dutch company, I think, that had a Volkswagen dealership, like a trained mechanic in the middle of the town. And I think we could cash a check or get money there.

[Assistant] Yeah, if there were no banks, how did you get your living allowance that Peace Corps provided?

[User] I don't remember. I guess it came to us through the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Now you mentioned a boyfriend that you went to visit. That was another volunteer, correct?

[User] Yes, yes. We met during training in the San Francisco area. He was at the very other end of the country, so we didn't see each other much. But then when we did, the sparks flew.

[Assistant] And his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. I guess it came to us through the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Now you mentioned a boyfriend that you went to visit. That was another volunteer, correct?

[User] Yes, yes. We met during training in the San Francisco area. He was at the very other end of the country, so we didn't see each other much. But then when we did, the sparks flew.

[Assistant] And his name?

[User] Bob Ginlack.

[Assistant] Okay. And he was a volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes. We met during training in the San Francisco area. He was at the very other end of the country, so we didn't see each other much. But then when we did, the sparks flew.

[Assistant] And his name?

[User] Bob Ginlack.

[Assistant] Okay. And he was a volunteer?

[User] He was a volunteer. He was a teacher also. He was a trained teacher. He, um, here in Hawaii we both taught and he went into administration. And we got divorced after about ten years of marriage but, um.

[Assistant] Okay, so you both ended up in Hawaii afterwards.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bob Ginlack.

[Assistant] Okay. And he was a volunteer?

[User] He was a volunteer. He was a teacher also. He was a trained teacher. He, um, here in Hawaii we both taught and he went into administration. And we got divorced after about ten years of marriage but, um.

[Assistant] Okay, so you both ended up in Hawaii afterwards.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Are you aware of your experience as a volunteer compared to any other education volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was a volunteer. He was a teacher also. He was a trained teacher. He, um, here in Hawaii we both taught and he went into administration. And we got divorced after about ten years of marriage but, um.

[Assistant] Okay, so you both ended up in Hawaii afterwards.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Are you aware of your experience as a volunteer compared to any other education volunteers?

[User] Oh, yes. There was a girl friend that was my roommate in training, and she was in Harper also, and she taught at the government school. And, um, that was a real school, cement, you know, and it had a playground and stuff. But she had second grade with like 40 little kids. And she had such a hard time, you know, controlling, knowing what to do and.

[Assistant] That's a big class.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Are you aware of your experience as a volunteer compared to any other education volunteers?

[User] Oh, yes. There was a girl friend that was my roommate in training, and she was in Harper also, and she taught at the government school. And, um, that was a real school, cement, you know, and it had a playground and stuff. But she had second grade with like 40 little kids. And she had such a hard time, you know, controlling, knowing what to do and.

[Assistant] That's a big class.

[User] It was, yeah, yeah. I don't think she was as happy as I was in my teaching situation when nobody bothered me. I could do pretty much what I wanted to.

[Assistant] Now, after your service was done, which was at the end of the school year, you ended up coming home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, yeah, yeah. I don't think she was as happy as I was in my teaching situation when nobody bothered me. I could do pretty much what I wanted to.

[Assistant] Now, after your service was done, which was at the end of the school year, you ended up coming home?

[User] Yes, um, we were engaged by then, and at that time, I don't know how it works now. We were given a plane ticket to home and we could add stops along the way. And we were given, was it half of our living allowance? I'm not sure. A certain amount of the money that had been banked for us in the States, our big pay. And so we traveled through Europe. I know we went to Spain, we went to Italy, Germany, Paris, maybe London. And it was the time of terrible riots in the States when cities were being burned in New Jersey and stuff. Terrible time. And it was a time of hippies. We saw our first hippies and that was terribly exciting.

[Assistant] In Europe?

[User]
In Europe. And eventually we got back to New York, which was my home. And Peace Corps had a little newsletter with employment opportunities for returning volunteers. And my husband applied and he got Philadelphia, and so we went there. Well, I was planning our wedding, so I just did a little bit of subbing in Philly, but not much. But we had a year teaching. He was teaching there. We got married in Philadelphia. We went to Temple University that summer and by then this job opportunities paper became a little more formal, I think. And the state of Hawaii was recruiting teachers through that.

And I was not an education major. They said, it's okay, you come and teach and you'll be in a regular school, you'll be supervised by a principal, you know. But we will give you your tenure after two years if everything went okay. And so I taught in Hawaii on that certification, never having had an education, formal education course.

[Assistant] And what did you end up, what level did you teach when you came to Hawaii?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, um, we were engaged by then, and at that time, I don't know how it works now. We were given a plane ticket to home and we could add stops along the way. And we were given, was it half of our living allowance? I'm not sure. A certain amount of the money that had been banked for us in the States, our big pay. And so we traveled through Europe. I know we went to Spain, we went to Italy, Germany, Paris, maybe London. And it was the time of terrible riots in the States when cities were being burned in New Jersey and stuff. Terrible time. And it was a time of hippies. We saw our first hippies and that was terribly exciting.

[Assistant] In Europe?

[User]
In Europe. And eventually we got back to New York, which was my home. And Peace Corps had a little newsletter with employment opportunities for returning volunteers. And my husband applied and he got Philadelphia, and so we went there. Well, I was planning our wedding, so I just did a little bit of subbing in Philly, but not much. But we had a year teaching. He was teaching there. We got married in Philadelphia. We went to Temple University that summer and by then this job opportunities paper became a little more formal, I think. And the state of Hawaii was recruiting teachers through that.

And I was not an education major. They said, it's okay, you come and teach and you'll be in a regular school, you'll be supervised by a principal, you know. But we will give you your tenure after two years if everything went okay. And so I taught in Hawaii on that certification, never having had an education, formal education course.

[Assistant] And what did you end up, what level did you teach when you came to Hawaii?

[User] I was doing seventh and eighth grade English, and then I went back to the University of Hawaii in Honolulu and got my master's. Finally, I'm taking education courses in counseling. And so I spent the rest of my career as a counselor. I was doing seventh, eighth, and ninth, tenth grades at different times.

[Assistant] Now, your college degree had been?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
In Europe. And eventually we got back to New York, which was my home. And Peace Corps had a little newsletter with employment opportunities for returning volunteers. And my husband applied and he got Philadelphia, and so we went there. Well, I was planning our wedding, so I just did a little bit of subbing in Philly, but not much. But we had a year teaching. He was teaching there. We got married in Philadelphia. We went to Temple University that summer and by then this job opportunities paper became a little more formal, I think. And the state of Hawaii was recruiting teachers through that.

And I was not an education major. They said, it's okay, you come and teach and you'll be in a regular school, you'll be supervised by a principal, you know. But we will give you your tenure after two years if everything went okay. And so I taught in Hawaii on that certification, never having had an education, formal education course.

[Assistant] And what did you end up, what level did you teach when you came to Hawaii?

[User] I was doing seventh and eighth grade English, and then I went back to the University of Hawaii in Honolulu and got my master's. Finally, I'm taking education courses in counseling. And so I spent the rest of my career as a counselor. I was doing seventh, eighth, and ninth, tenth grades at different times.

[Assistant] Now, your college degree had been?

[User] A history major.

[Assistant] History. So you went from history to education and the Peace Corps, and then that led you to your career?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was doing seventh and eighth grade English, and then I went back to the University of Hawaii in Honolulu and got my master's. Finally, I'm taking education courses in counseling. And so I spent the rest of my career as a counselor. I was doing seventh, eighth, and ninth, tenth grades at different times.

[Assistant] Now, your college degree had been?

[User] A history major.

[Assistant] History. So you went from history to education and the Peace Corps, and then that led you to your career?

[User] Yeah, essentially, yeah.

[Assistant] Do you have any regrets about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A history major.

[Assistant] History. So you went from history to education and the Peace Corps, and then that led you to your career?

[User] Yeah, essentially, yeah.

[Assistant] Do you have any regrets about the Peace Corps?

[User] Oh, no, no, no. None at all. It was, I tell my son, the most fun period of my life, my whole life. Because we were all about the same age, the volunteers. The ones who were up the road would come down to Harper for the weekend and there'd be a dance at school or a dance in church or in a bar. And we would go and dance all night, sweating, sweating, sweat dripping off our chin, having such a great time. And, and it wasn't, um. There were a couple of boy-girl relationships, but for most part it was friends and all going through the same, you know, experience. I guess we all missed home at times. I don't remember missing home at all. I thought it was wonderful.

[Assistant] How much, um, how much influence do you think you had on the local population in terms of helping them understand American culture, which is the second goal of the Peace Corps? Your first goal was providing a service, which was your education.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We both did. We got up to where my husband was and my son is named Saa Tamba Ginlack. Saa means firstborn son. Tamba means second born son. So we used to joke that we had to stop at one kid because we had the two names in one person. And we just liked the sound of Saa Tamba. It rolled. So we did go back to the village that Bob was in and the, the reason why we gave him the name Tamba is the chief's name was Tamba Taylor. He was later the member of the tribal community that was in President Sirleaf's cabinet, when that woman Sirleaf became the first woman president of Liberia maybe ten years ago, I think it was. So he was the chief of the village.

[Assistant] Of the village that your husband was in?

[User] Yes. And we had to cross this little bridge. And then we came into the village and the chief came to the car yelling, where's this Tamba boy? Where's this Tamba boy? So we must have written to him or saying that we were coming with our son. And oh, we were treated really nicely and it was really great. And I got back to Harper. We stayed with a volunteer and we then went. We were in Monrovia for the longest time and we camped out in the front yard of a volunteer and he in fact lent us $100 till our money check came from the States. Um. So we were there probably two months.

[Assistant] And then you got down into Harper?

[User] Yes. Yeah. And the, I remember we went to the Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia and we went to the Peace Corps office. And the Peace Corps nurse, her name was Comfort Butler, and she was still there. So we saw her. Monrovia had movie theaters. It had one big Western hotel, the Intercontinental, and we met some of the volunteers.

[Assistant] Then you ended up coming home. What did you do with the bus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And we had to cross this little bridge. And then we came into the village and the chief came to the car yelling, where's this Tamba boy? Where's this Tamba boy? So we must have written to him or saying that we were coming with our son. And oh, we were treated really nicely and it was really great. And I got back to Harper. We stayed with a volunteer and we then went. We were in Monrovia for the longest time and we camped out in the front yard of a volunteer and he in fact lent us $100 till our money check came from the States. Um. So we were there probably two months.

[Assistant] And then you got down into Harper?

[User] Yes. Yeah. And the, I remember we went to the Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia and we went to the Peace Corps office. And the Peace Corps nurse, her name was Comfort Butler, and she was still there. So we saw her. Monrovia had movie theaters. It had one big Western hotel, the Intercontinental, and we met some of the volunteers.

[Assistant] Then you ended up coming home. What did you do with the bus?

[User] We had to, we put it on a ship that stopped in Monrovia and took us to the Canary Islands. Got off in the Canary Islands, stayed there a month. Put it on another ship to Spain and continued our travels around Europe. Got as far east as Istanbul. People in Turkey are very nice.

[Assistant] Did you bring the bus back home or did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah. And the, I remember we went to the Peace Corps hostel in Monrovia and we went to the Peace Corps office. And the Peace Corps nurse, her name was Comfort Butler, and she was still there. So we saw her. Monrovia had movie theaters. It had one big Western hotel, the Intercontinental, and we met some of the volunteers.

[Assistant] Then you ended up coming home. What did you do with the bus?

[User] We had to, we put it on a ship that stopped in Monrovia and took us to the Canary Islands. Got off in the Canary Islands, stayed there a month. Put it on another ship to Spain and continued our travels around Europe. Got as far east as Istanbul. People in Turkey are very nice.

[Assistant] Did you bring the bus back home or did you?

[User] We did, yes. We shipped it out of Amsterdam to New York and picked it up in New York and drove it across country. And a friend helped us put it on a ship to Hawaii.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. That bus.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had to, we put it on a ship that stopped in Monrovia and took us to the Canary Islands. Got off in the Canary Islands, stayed there a month. Put it on another ship to Spain and continued our travels around Europe. Got as far east as Istanbul. People in Turkey are very nice.

[Assistant] Did you bring the bus back home or did you?

[User] We did, yes. We shipped it out of Amsterdam to New York and picked it up in New York and drove it across country. And a friend helped us put it on a ship to Hawaii.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. That bus.

[User] Yeah. Got around.

[Assistant] Did some traveling.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did, yes. We shipped it out of Amsterdam to New York and picked it up in New York and drove it across country. And a friend helped us put it on a ship to Hawaii.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. That bus.

[User] Yeah. Got around.

[Assistant] Did some traveling.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. So that was a long trip, then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Got around.

[Assistant] Did some traveling.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. So that was a long trip, then?

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably a year and a half, maybe.

[Assistant] Have you incorporated any kind of third goal activities since you've been back in the United States?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. So that was a long trip, then?

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably a year and a half, maybe.

[Assistant] Have you incorporated any kind of third goal activities since you've been back in the United States?

[User] What's the third goal?

[Assistant] Teaching, uh, teaching Americans about your experience in the Liberian culture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably a year and a half, maybe.

[Assistant] Have you incorporated any kind of third goal activities since you've been back in the United States?

[User] What's the third goal?

[Assistant] Teaching, uh, teaching Americans about your experience in the Liberian culture.

[User] I gave a couple of talks at school. I remember once to students, once to my faculty. But that's the only formal thing that I can think of. But like I say, all my pictures were on slides and after a few years in Hawaii, they all turned purple. I have no pictures of Liberia from, from my sides and my husband's also.

[Assistant] Well, um, so overall, it sounds like you had a very positive experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What's the third goal?

[Assistant] Teaching, uh, teaching Americans about your experience in the Liberian culture.

[User] I gave a couple of talks at school. I remember once to students, once to my faculty. But that's the only formal thing that I can think of. But like I say, all my pictures were on slides and after a few years in Hawaii, they all turned purple. I have no pictures of Liberia from, from my sides and my husband's also.

[Assistant] Well, um, so overall, it sounds like you had a very positive experience.

[User] Oh, very. I just, I thought it was so much fun and I developed such independence for myself. I think I made a good impression. I mean, I'm a friendly person. I talk, I like to laugh. You know, I like to dance with him. Oh, I remember one Liberian man, older man. He was a judge at a dance and he asked me to dance a cha cha. And I said I didn't know how to cha cha. Oh, he was such a good dancer. He could just steer you anyway, you know? He knew, I became a cha cha dancer. Yeah, it was, I only have happy memories. Except for that one night when I thought I would have to teach algebra.

[Assistant] When you actually left the country, was there any kind of ceremony? I mean, how did you feel about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I gave a couple of talks at school. I remember once to students, once to my faculty. But that's the only formal thing that I can think of. But like I say, all my pictures were on slides and after a few years in Hawaii, they all turned purple. I have no pictures of Liberia from, from my sides and my husband's also.

[Assistant] Well, um, so overall, it sounds like you had a very positive experience.

[User] Oh, very. I just, I thought it was so much fun and I developed such independence for myself. I think I made a good impression. I mean, I'm a friendly person. I talk, I like to laugh. You know, I like to dance with him. Oh, I remember one Liberian man, older man. He was a judge at a dance and he asked me to dance a cha cha. And I said I didn't know how to cha cha. Oh, he was such a good dancer. He could just steer you anyway, you know? He knew, I became a cha cha dancer. Yeah, it was, I only have happy memories. Except for that one night when I thought I would have to teach algebra.

[Assistant] When you actually left the country, was there any kind of ceremony? I mean, how did you feel about that?

[User] The school that my girlfriend was at that was a regular school had a program for all the volunteers. Oh, sad, sad, sad. We were all standing up on the stage. Oh, I was really sad to be leaving.

[Assistant] Have you kept in touch with anybody from the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The school that my girlfriend was at that was a regular school had a program for all the volunteers. Oh, sad, sad, sad. We were all standing up on the stage. Oh, I was really sad to be leaving.

[Assistant] Have you kept in touch with anybody from the country?

[User] Oh, yes. Yes, I'm pretty good about. From the country?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] From Liberia. The one girl who was my house, uh, lived with me for the year. She was, uh, she came back. She came to the States, got an education in the States. Unfortunately had a terrible stroke and can't talk any longer. But I've still visited her in Philadelphia and kept in touch with them, her husband, who is Liberian.

[Assistant] And you've kept in touch with other volunteers it sounds like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Yes, I'm pretty good about. From the country?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] From Liberia. The one girl who was my house, uh, lived with me for the year. She was, uh, she came back. She came to the States, got an education in the States. Unfortunately had a terrible stroke and can't talk any longer. But I've still visited her in Philadelphia and kept in touch with them, her husband, who is Liberian.

[Assistant] And you've kept in touch with other volunteers it sounds like?

[User] Oh, yes. Yeah. And the Canadian lady who lived next door to me, she just came to visit last year and, um. Yeah. Lots of volunteers I've kept in touch with. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, before we wrap this up, is there anything else that you can think of you want to add?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From Liberia. The one girl who was my house, uh, lived with me for the year. She was, uh, she came back. She came to the States, got an education in the States. Unfortunately had a terrible stroke and can't talk any longer. But I've still visited her in Philadelphia and kept in touch with them, her husband, who is Liberian.

[Assistant] And you've kept in touch with other volunteers it sounds like?

[User] Oh, yes. Yeah. And the Canadian lady who lived next door to me, she just came to visit last year and, um. Yeah. Lots of volunteers I've kept in touch with. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, before we wrap this up, is there anything else that you can think of you want to add?

[User] Best years of my life.

[Assistant] Well, that's a, that's a good endorsement for the Peace Corps. Thank you for your time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Do I get a prize?

[Assistant] Yes, you get your transcript when all this is over with. You have work to do when this is over with. If you want to write a book here’s a good start.

[User] Just checking, lollipop or something.

[Assistant] You get a cup of coffee.

[User] I’ve already got a cup of coffee.

[Assistant] Let’s start by talking about your background and your education, and what brought you to work for NASA.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That would be September 1962. And I would be a high school teacher of American history. Eleventh grade.

[Assistant] Oh, you were a teacher?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And where where did you grow up?

[User] I was born in Thomaston, Georgia, and I grew up in the south in various places. Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia.

[Assistant] Did you have a big family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And where where did you grow up?

[User] I was born in Thomaston, Georgia, and I grew up in the south in various places. Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia.

[Assistant] Did you have a big family?

[User] No, I'm the oldest of three, my brother and sister.

[Assistant] And what did your family do? What did your parents do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was born in Thomaston, Georgia, and I grew up in the south in various places. Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia.

[Assistant] Did you have a big family?

[User] No, I'm the oldest of three, my brother and sister.

[Assistant] And what did your family do? What did your parents do?

[User] My mother worked in a bank typically as a teller, and my father was a writer and editor, mostly freelance.

[Assistant] As a family, did you travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I'm the oldest of three, my brother and sister.

[Assistant] And what did your family do? What did your parents do?

[User] My mother worked in a bank typically as a teller, and my father was a writer and editor, mostly freelance.

[Assistant] As a family, did you travel?

[User] Yes. My earliest recollections, in fact, are travel on the train during the Second World War because my father was too old to be drafted and with already two children. So he was a civilian involved with the production of armaments and he worked for Bill Farmer or Bill Aircraft and traveled from Bill Factory to build a factory up and down the East Coast. We got all the way to upstate New York, our family on the train. So my earliest recollections are of walking up and down the aisles of the train, chatting with the other children of the other families and the soldiers and so forth and so on.

[Assistant] Happy memories yesterday and the international travel room?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My mother worked in a bank typically as a teller, and my father was a writer and editor, mostly freelance.

[Assistant] As a family, did you travel?

[User] Yes. My earliest recollections, in fact, are travel on the train during the Second World War because my father was too old to be drafted and with already two children. So he was a civilian involved with the production of armaments and he worked for Bill Farmer or Bill Aircraft and traveled from Bill Factory to build a factory up and down the East Coast. We got all the way to upstate New York, our family on the train. So my earliest recollections are of walking up and down the aisles of the train, chatting with the other children of the other families and the soldiers and so forth and so on.

[Assistant] Happy memories yesterday and the international travel room?

[User] As a family, no. And for myself, no. Before Peace Corps, I don't think except for trips to the Bahamas, maybe I had been outside the country.

[Assistant] And so you went to school and you went you went to high school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. My earliest recollections, in fact, are travel on the train during the Second World War because my father was too old to be drafted and with already two children. So he was a civilian involved with the production of armaments and he worked for Bill Farmer or Bill Aircraft and traveled from Bill Factory to build a factory up and down the East Coast. We got all the way to upstate New York, our family on the train. So my earliest recollections are of walking up and down the aisles of the train, chatting with the other children of the other families and the soldiers and so forth and so on.

[Assistant] Happy memories yesterday and the international travel room?

[User] As a family, no. And for myself, no. Before Peace Corps, I don't think except for trips to the Bahamas, maybe I had been outside the country.

[Assistant] And so you went to school and you went you went to high school.

[User] Went to high school in several different places in the south.

[Assistant] Did you study a foreign language in high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As a family, no. And for myself, no. Before Peace Corps, I don't think except for trips to the Bahamas, maybe I had been outside the country.

[Assistant] And so you went to school and you went you went to high school.

[User] Went to high school in several different places in the south.

[Assistant] Did you study a foreign language in high school?

[User] No, I had two years of Latin.

[Assistant] Uh huh. I guess that's a foreign language, but it's


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Went to high school in several different places in the south.

[Assistant] Did you study a foreign language in high school?

[User] No, I had two years of Latin.

[Assistant] Uh huh. I guess that's a foreign language, but it's

[User] Not one you speak.

[Assistant] And did you get involved in extracurricular activities, volunteer work as a high school student?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I had two years of Latin.

[Assistant] Uh huh. I guess that's a foreign language, but it's

[User] Not one you speak.

[Assistant] And did you get involved in extracurricular activities, volunteer work as a high school student?

[User] I played basketball and we were state champs. Two years running. We had the state high score. Good two years running. Now, this is half court women thought to be weak and delicate during those days. We're not permitted in basketball to pay for court or so we played three on a side. Oh, and I'm short, as you can see. So I did not play on the side with the state high scorer. She played on the other side and I was on defense and I was an excellent pine sister.

[Assistant] I don't know what kind system.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not one you speak.

[Assistant] And did you get involved in extracurricular activities, volunteer work as a high school student?

[User] I played basketball and we were state champs. Two years running. We had the state high score. Good two years running. Now, this is half court women thought to be weak and delicate during those days. We're not permitted in basketball to pay for court or so we played three on a side. Oh, and I'm short, as you can see. So I did not play on the side with the state high scorer. She played on the other side and I was on defense and I was an excellent pine sister.

[Assistant] I don't know what kind system.

[User] Well, there are pine brothers and sisters, meaning you come off the bench, Phyllis, you don't start.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Revealing something about myself. And then you went to college. Were you the first in your family to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I played basketball and we were state champs. Two years running. We had the state high score. Good two years running. Now, this is half court women thought to be weak and delicate during those days. We're not permitted in basketball to pay for court or so we played three on a side. Oh, and I'm short, as you can see. So I did not play on the side with the state high scorer. She played on the other side and I was on defense and I was an excellent pine sister.

[Assistant] I don't know what kind system.

[User] Well, there are pine brothers and sisters, meaning you come off the bench, Phyllis, you don't start.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Revealing something about myself. And then you went to college. Were you the first in your family to go?

[User] Oh, no, no, no. I have two grandmothers who were college girls, both graduated and both attended and graduated in the nineteenth century. So my father was a college graduate and no, I was not the first college graduate, my friend.

[Assistant] Oh, very exciting to come from a family with such a history and entering college. What did you envision as a career?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there are pine brothers and sisters, meaning you come off the bench, Phyllis, you don't start.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Revealing something about myself. And then you went to college. Were you the first in your family to go?

[User] Oh, no, no, no. I have two grandmothers who were college girls, both graduated and both attended and graduated in the nineteenth century. So my father was a college graduate and no, I was not the first college graduate, my friend.

[Assistant] Oh, very exciting to come from a family with such a history and entering college. What did you envision as a career?

[User] Oh, wow. I have no idea if I have any doubt.

[Assistant] I had a yeah. Yeah. If anything,


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, no, no. I have two grandmothers who were college girls, both graduated and both attended and graduated in the nineteenth century. So my father was a college graduate and no, I was not the first college graduate, my friend.

[Assistant] Oh, very exciting to come from a family with such a history and entering college. What did you envision as a career?

[User] Oh, wow. I have no idea if I have any doubt.

[Assistant] I had a yeah. Yeah. If anything,

[User] I liked chemistry in high school and hoped to continue with chemistry, but did not have a good mathematics background in high school and couldn't eventually carry the computation aspects of chemistry very far. So I think I probably at that point decided maybe not to major in something. And then, of course, the powers that be caught up with me and said, well, you've got to pick something, and what did you pick? I think I probably picked social science, something as broad as as the system allowed.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Not a bad idea for an undergraduate degree. And did you study languages in college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, wow. I have no idea if I have any doubt.

[Assistant] I had a yeah. Yeah. If anything,

[User] I liked chemistry in high school and hoped to continue with chemistry, but did not have a good mathematics background in high school and couldn't eventually carry the computation aspects of chemistry very far. So I think I probably at that point decided maybe not to major in something. And then, of course, the powers that be caught up with me and said, well, you've got to pick something, and what did you pick? I think I probably picked social science, something as broad as as the system allowed.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Not a bad idea for an undergraduate degree. And did you study languages in college?

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] OK, so you left college speaking English very well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I liked chemistry in high school and hoped to continue with chemistry, but did not have a good mathematics background in high school and couldn't eventually carry the computation aspects of chemistry very far. So I think I probably at that point decided maybe not to major in something. And then, of course, the powers that be caught up with me and said, well, you've got to pick something, and what did you pick? I think I probably picked social science, something as broad as as the system allowed.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Not a bad idea for an undergraduate degree. And did you study languages in college?

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] OK, so you left college speaking English very well.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What did you do in the summers as a college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] OK, so you left college speaking English very well.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What did you do in the summers as a college?

[User] Always working, sometimes with one job, sometimes two jobs. And I think one summer I had three jobs. And the the logistics of that were quite daunting to be on time and get from one to the other, to the other to the other. I worked at a dry cleaners, I remember at the front with the heat of the dry cleaning machine on my back on the and then I talked swimming. I started out working in high school as a runner for the Chamber of Commerce, which was on the little square in the town where we where we lived. So from about the age of 14 on, I was working after school and just as a gopher, anything the Chamber of Commerce wanted, I would do it right. So I learned to do I learned to be very versatile and learn to do lots of things. So my and always worked during college as well, working for one of the professors, doing research or or whatever needed doing.

[Assistant] And where did you go to school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What did you do in the summers as a college?

[User] Always working, sometimes with one job, sometimes two jobs. And I think one summer I had three jobs. And the the logistics of that were quite daunting to be on time and get from one to the other, to the other to the other. I worked at a dry cleaners, I remember at the front with the heat of the dry cleaning machine on my back on the and then I talked swimming. I started out working in high school as a runner for the Chamber of Commerce, which was on the little square in the town where we where we lived. So from about the age of 14 on, I was working after school and just as a gopher, anything the Chamber of Commerce wanted, I would do it right. So I learned to do I learned to be very versatile and learn to do lots of things. So my and always worked during college as well, working for one of the professors, doing research or or whatever needed doing.

[Assistant] And where did you go to school?

[User] Undergraduate at Florida State. And then my Masters at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

[Assistant] And that was before Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Always working, sometimes with one job, sometimes two jobs. And I think one summer I had three jobs. And the the logistics of that were quite daunting to be on time and get from one to the other, to the other to the other. I worked at a dry cleaners, I remember at the front with the heat of the dry cleaning machine on my back on the and then I talked swimming. I started out working in high school as a runner for the Chamber of Commerce, which was on the little square in the town where we where we lived. So from about the age of 14 on, I was working after school and just as a gopher, anything the Chamber of Commerce wanted, I would do it right. So I learned to do I learned to be very versatile and learn to do lots of things. So my and always worked during college as well, working for one of the professors, doing research or or whatever needed doing.

[Assistant] And where did you go to school?

[User] Undergraduate at Florida State. And then my Masters at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

[Assistant] And that was before Peace Corps.

[User] No undergraduate was before Peace Corps and graduate was post.

[Assistant] Ok, so we're in Florida State now and somehow you hear about the Peace Corps. How did you become aware of Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Undergraduate at Florida State. And then my Masters at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

[Assistant] And that was before Peace Corps.

[User] No undergraduate was before Peace Corps and graduate was post.

[Assistant] Ok, so we're in Florida State now and somehow you hear about the Peace Corps. How did you become aware of Peace Corps?

[User] I had while I was teaching in Fort Lauderdale, applied I had taken the foreign service exam and passed it. My interest originally was the Foreign Service and the Department of State. Yeah. And I went through a number of interviews and I lived in Fort Lauderdale and the interviews were in Miami with various Department of State personnel, and they were really not ready to for women to enter it even on the first rung of the ladder in the diplomatic service, which is what I was interested in. Yes. They finally offered me a job as an administrative assistant in the Department of State office there in Miami. And as an alternative, they offered me a job working for the NSA I and

[Assistant] Then national security.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No undergraduate was before Peace Corps and graduate was post.

[Assistant] Ok, so we're in Florida State now and somehow you hear about the Peace Corps. How did you become aware of Peace Corps?

[User] I had while I was teaching in Fort Lauderdale, applied I had taken the foreign service exam and passed it. My interest originally was the Foreign Service and the Department of State. Yeah. And I went through a number of interviews and I lived in Fort Lauderdale and the interviews were in Miami with various Department of State personnel, and they were really not ready to for women to enter it even on the first rung of the ladder in the diplomatic service, which is what I was interested in. Yes. They finally offered me a job as an administrative assistant in the Department of State office there in Miami. And as an alternative, they offered me a job working for the NSA I and

[Assistant] Then national security.

[User] Yes, because I was not particularly inclined toward spying. And so I turned down the NSA and I turned down the administrative assistant job for the Department of State. I saw myself as, you know, being a diplomat and representing my country. And what they had me pigeonholed in was not attractive. So as an alternative, I applied to the Peace Corps thinking this will be an opportunity for me to serve my country and go abroad.

[Assistant] That's right. Exactly. And you did this right out of college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had while I was teaching in Fort Lauderdale, applied I had taken the foreign service exam and passed it. My interest originally was the Foreign Service and the Department of State. Yeah. And I went through a number of interviews and I lived in Fort Lauderdale and the interviews were in Miami with various Department of State personnel, and they were really not ready to for women to enter it even on the first rung of the ladder in the diplomatic service, which is what I was interested in. Yes. They finally offered me a job as an administrative assistant in the Department of State office there in Miami. And as an alternative, they offered me a job working for the NSA I and

[Assistant] Then national security.

[User] Yes, because I was not particularly inclined toward spying. And so I turned down the NSA and I turned down the administrative assistant job for the Department of State. I saw myself as, you know, being a diplomat and representing my country. And what they had me pigeonholed in was not attractive. So as an alternative, I applied to the Peace Corps thinking this will be an opportunity for me to serve my country and go abroad.

[Assistant] That's right. Exactly. And you did this right out of college?

[User] Oh, no, no. Out of college. I got a job teaching high school American history in Fort Lauderdale, and that's what I was doing. And you asked me what I was doing a year before. Yeah, that's right. You did say that you do the same job, same job.

[Assistant] How many years were you teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, because I was not particularly inclined toward spying. And so I turned down the NSA and I turned down the administrative assistant job for the Department of State. I saw myself as, you know, being a diplomat and representing my country. And what they had me pigeonholed in was not attractive. So as an alternative, I applied to the Peace Corps thinking this will be an opportunity for me to serve my country and go abroad.

[Assistant] That's right. Exactly. And you did this right out of college?

[User] Oh, no, no. Out of college. I got a job teaching high school American history in Fort Lauderdale, and that's what I was doing. And you asked me what I was doing a year before. Yeah, that's right. You did say that you do the same job, same job.

[Assistant] How many years were you teaching?

[User] I taught three and a half years.

[Assistant] Three and a half years before you applied to the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, no. Out of college. I got a job teaching high school American history in Fort Lauderdale, and that's what I was doing. And you asked me what I was doing a year before. Yeah, that's right. You did say that you do the same job, same job.

[Assistant] How many years were you teaching?

[User] I taught three and a half years.

[Assistant] Three and a half years before you applied to the Peace Corps?

[User] No, probably applying to the Peace Corps while I was a teacher. And going through the whole process of supplying the letters of recommendation, you were you needed ten in those days. And I was hard pressed to come up with ten. Yes. You could reliably be counted on to say something positive about me. And the toughest one was to ask my mother because she would be my my worst critic, my strongest. But she wrote a wonderful book, even though she had doubts about my going overseas. And so you would once you were accepted, then you would in those days get invitations to various programs. Yes. Yes. And. I would read the material and I wasn't, for whatever reason, all that interested in what they were laying in front of it, because I had

[Assistant] What were some of the options?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I taught three and a half years.

[Assistant] Three and a half years before you applied to the Peace Corps?

[User] No, probably applying to the Peace Corps while I was a teacher. And going through the whole process of supplying the letters of recommendation, you were you needed ten in those days. And I was hard pressed to come up with ten. Yes. You could reliably be counted on to say something positive about me. And the toughest one was to ask my mother because she would be my my worst critic, my strongest. But she wrote a wonderful book, even though she had doubts about my going overseas. And so you would once you were accepted, then you would in those days get invitations to various programs. Yes. Yes. And. I would read the material and I wasn't, for whatever reason, all that interested in what they were laying in front of it, because I had

[Assistant] What were some of the options?

[User] They were, again, had me pigeonholed as a classroom teacher. And I had been a classroom teacher for three and a half years and I wanted to move on. I was ready for a change. Yeah, but all of these were basically classroom pretty traditional situations and even a television program. And in Colombia was still basically a classroom situation. So when I was invited to a public health education program, I said, hey, I can use my teaching school, that I can put the classroom behind me. And that, in fact, is the way it worked out.

[Assistant] So you finally accepted the invitation to train for the


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, probably applying to the Peace Corps while I was a teacher. And going through the whole process of supplying the letters of recommendation, you were you needed ten in those days. And I was hard pressed to come up with ten. Yes. You could reliably be counted on to say something positive about me. And the toughest one was to ask my mother because she would be my my worst critic, my strongest. But she wrote a wonderful book, even though she had doubts about my going overseas. And so you would once you were accepted, then you would in those days get invitations to various programs. Yes. Yes. And. I would read the material and I wasn't, for whatever reason, all that interested in what they were laying in front of it, because I had

[Assistant] What were some of the options?

[User] They were, again, had me pigeonholed as a classroom teacher. And I had been a classroom teacher for three and a half years and I wanted to move on. I was ready for a change. Yeah, but all of these were basically classroom pretty traditional situations and even a television program. And in Colombia was still basically a classroom situation. So when I was invited to a public health education program, I said, hey, I can use my teaching school, that I can put the classroom behind me. And that, in fact, is the way it worked out.

[Assistant] So you finally accepted the invitation to train for the

[User] Public health education in Bolivia. I had to look up where Bolivia was. I didn't know where it was.

[Assistant] So many of us had to do that. And what did you and your family, your mother, you said, was somewhat skeptical about your your decision to do this and other people in your family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were, again, had me pigeonholed as a classroom teacher. And I had been a classroom teacher for three and a half years and I wanted to move on. I was ready for a change. Yeah, but all of these were basically classroom pretty traditional situations and even a television program. And in Colombia was still basically a classroom situation. So when I was invited to a public health education program, I said, hey, I can use my teaching school, that I can put the classroom behind me. And that, in fact, is the way it worked out.

[Assistant] So you finally accepted the invitation to train for the

[User] Public health education in Bolivia. I had to look up where Bolivia was. I didn't know where it was.

[Assistant] So many of us had to do that. And what did you and your family, your mother, you said, was somewhat skeptical about your your decision to do this and other people in your family?

[User] I think my mother was probably the most supportive in the end. I think my father, who had challenges as far as mental illness was concerned, was definitely not supportive. But no, I think my mother in the end was the most silently in my corner.

[Assistant] Right. And then you said you had two siblings.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Public health education in Bolivia. I had to look up where Bolivia was. I didn't know where it was.

[Assistant] So many of us had to do that. And what did you and your family, your mother, you said, was somewhat skeptical about your your decision to do this and other people in your family?

[User] I think my mother was probably the most supportive in the end. I think my father, who had challenges as far as mental illness was concerned, was definitely not supportive. But no, I think my mother in the end was the most silently in my corner.

[Assistant] Right. And then you said you had two siblings.

[User] Yes, I did. And I have no idea what they thought. So my brother was willing to take care of my car while I was gone. That was fine with me.

[Assistant] Yes, I can imagine that. Taking care of it means using it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think my mother was probably the most supportive in the end. I think my father, who had challenges as far as mental illness was concerned, was definitely not supportive. But no, I think my mother in the end was the most silently in my corner.

[Assistant] Right. And then you said you had two siblings.

[User] Yes, I did. And I have no idea what they thought. So my brother was willing to take care of my car while I was gone. That was fine with me.

[Assistant] Yes, I can imagine that. Taking care of it means using it.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] So then you go off to training and where where do you go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I did. And I have no idea what they thought. So my brother was willing to take care of my car while I was gone. That was fine with me.

[Assistant] Yes, I can imagine that. Taking care of it means using it.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] So then you go off to training and where where do you go?

[User] University of Washington School of Public Health in Seattle and Seattle.

[Assistant] Yes, quite a different part of the country from the south and southeast. And when did training start?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] So then you go off to training and where where do you go?

[User] University of Washington School of Public Health in Seattle and Seattle.

[Assistant] Yes, quite a different part of the country from the south and southeast. And when did training start?

[User] September 1963, ‘63.

[Assistant] Now, were you the first group to train for Bolivia or had there been


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] University of Washington School of Public Health in Seattle and Seattle.

[Assistant] Yes, quite a different part of the country from the south and southeast. And when did training start?

[User] September 1963, ‘63.

[Assistant] Now, were you the first group to train for Bolivia or had there been

[User] This was Bolivia V.

[Assistant] Bolivia V, one of the very early groups. Do you believe


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] September 1963, ‘63.

[Assistant] Now, were you the first group to train for Bolivia or had there been

[User] This was Bolivia V.

[Assistant] Bolivia V, one of the very early groups. Do you believe

[User] This was the first public health education group for Bolivia. But certainly by no means not the first group.

[Assistant] Not the first bunch of Peace Corps volunteers. Do you remember first reporting to training and in what you would call of showing up, meeting the other trainees?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was Bolivia V.

[Assistant] Bolivia V, one of the very early groups. Do you believe

[User] This was the first public health education group for Bolivia. But certainly by no means not the first group.

[Assistant] Not the first bunch of Peace Corps volunteers. Do you remember first reporting to training and in what you would call of showing up, meeting the other trainees?

[User] That's that to me was the best part of Peace Corps service, was getting to meet people from other parts of the country who had different experiences, different kinds of growing up. And that process started right there in Seattle. So, yes, I don't remember all the bags around the room and everybody standing around, you know, wondering, you know, who everybody else in the group was and how this was going to go and and so forth.

[Assistant] And so, yes, I do. Was it a large group or how many were involved?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was the first public health education group for Bolivia. But certainly by no means not the first group.

[Assistant] Not the first bunch of Peace Corps volunteers. Do you remember first reporting to training and in what you would call of showing up, meeting the other trainees?

[User] That's that to me was the best part of Peace Corps service, was getting to meet people from other parts of the country who had different experiences, different kinds of growing up. And that process started right there in Seattle. So, yes, I don't remember all the bags around the room and everybody standing around, you know, wondering, you know, who everybody else in the group was and how this was going to go and and so forth.

[Assistant] And so, yes, I do. Was it a large group or how many were involved?

[User] Yeah, small. By the time we went to Bolivia, I think we were probably no more than twenty one or twenty two and maybe we started out at about twenty eight or nine. And Bolivia V and Bolivia VI were in tandem with the same training program, the same mission in country. One started in September of ‘63, the other one started in January ‘64.

[Assistant] So they learn from whatever mistakes they made with you in training both men and women. Any married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's that to me was the best part of Peace Corps service, was getting to meet people from other parts of the country who had different experiences, different kinds of growing up. And that process started right there in Seattle. So, yes, I don't remember all the bags around the room and everybody standing around, you know, wondering, you know, who everybody else in the group was and how this was going to go and and so forth.

[Assistant] And so, yes, I do. Was it a large group or how many were involved?

[User] Yeah, small. By the time we went to Bolivia, I think we were probably no more than twenty one or twenty two and maybe we started out at about twenty eight or nine. And Bolivia V and Bolivia VI were in tandem with the same training program, the same mission in country. One started in September of ‘63, the other one started in January ‘64.

[Assistant] So they learn from whatever mistakes they made with you in training both men and women. Any married couples?

[User] Yes. At least one, if not more than one in my group.

[Assistant] And did some of these people have training already in public health or in any kind of health service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, small. By the time we went to Bolivia, I think we were probably no more than twenty one or twenty two and maybe we started out at about twenty eight or nine. And Bolivia V and Bolivia VI were in tandem with the same training program, the same mission in country. One started in September of ‘63, the other one started in January ‘64.

[Assistant] So they learn from whatever mistakes they made with you in training both men and women. Any married couples?

[User] Yes. At least one, if not more than one in my group.

[Assistant] And did some of these people have training already in public health or in any kind of health service?

[User] Most of the people were medical professionals, health care professionals, hospital professionals, nurses, lab techs, medics. Hospital administrators.

[Assistant] Sounds like these these are not young kids who


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. At least one, if not more than one in my group.

[Assistant] And did some of these people have training already in public health or in any kind of health service?

[User] Most of the people were medical professionals, health care professionals, hospital professionals, nurses, lab techs, medics. Hospital administrators.

[Assistant] Sounds like these these are not young kids who

[User] Are nurses for the most part. I was twenty four when I reported to Seattle in September 1963. And for the most part, everybody in the group like me had worked since graduating from college.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. Yes. And you, of course, put your teaching skills right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Most of the people were medical professionals, health care professionals, hospital professionals, nurses, lab techs, medics. Hospital administrators.

[Assistant] Sounds like these these are not young kids who

[User] Are nurses for the most part. I was twenty four when I reported to Seattle in September 1963. And for the most part, everybody in the group like me had worked since graduating from college.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. Yes. And you, of course, put your teaching skills right.

[User] There were a few others like me who had been teachers teacher.

[Assistant] And did you what was the scene like at the university there? Did you stay in college dormitories?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Are nurses for the most part. I was twenty four when I reported to Seattle in September 1963. And for the most part, everybody in the group like me had worked since graduating from college.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. Yes. And you, of course, put your teaching skills right.

[User] There were a few others like me who had been teachers teacher.

[Assistant] And did you what was the scene like at the university there? Did you stay in college dormitories?

[User] Yes, we stayed in college dormitories and work and walked to the various classes. So everything was right there on the campus and. You had the feeling from the very first day about the way the program was managed, the administrators, the teachers, the faculty, all from the School of Public Health at the University of Washington of competence. I mean, they were outstanding, wonderful, outstanding people.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And your classes then you took classes. Well, what sorts of academic classes did you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were a few others like me who had been teachers teacher.

[Assistant] And did you what was the scene like at the university there? Did you stay in college dormitories?

[User] Yes, we stayed in college dormitories and work and walked to the various classes. So everything was right there on the campus and. You had the feeling from the very first day about the way the program was managed, the administrators, the teachers, the faculty, all from the School of Public Health at the University of Washington of competence. I mean, they were outstanding, wonderful, outstanding people.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And your classes then you took classes. Well, what sorts of academic classes did you have?

[User] Well, they're looking at health care and disease from a public health perspective, which is a different perspective than the way most health care people are trained in the United States. So they spend a lot of time on demographics, on the transmission of disease. And, of course, in a Bolivian setting, nobody, nobody in our group had had any exposure to any of the diseases that were discussed.

[Assistant] So it was all new learning about the diseases themselves?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we stayed in college dormitories and work and walked to the various classes. So everything was right there on the campus and. You had the feeling from the very first day about the way the program was managed, the administrators, the teachers, the faculty, all from the School of Public Health at the University of Washington of competence. I mean, they were outstanding, wonderful, outstanding people.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And your classes then you took classes. Well, what sorts of academic classes did you have?

[User] Well, they're looking at health care and disease from a public health perspective, which is a different perspective than the way most health care people are trained in the United States. So they spend a lot of time on demographics, on the transmission of disease. And, of course, in a Bolivian setting, nobody, nobody in our group had had any exposure to any of the diseases that were discussed.

[Assistant] So it was all new learning about the diseases themselves?

[User] Yeah, malaria. Yellow fever. Plague. Diphtheria. Oh yeah. These things happen. So from the beginning I was on level ground and all of the health care.

[Assistant] Oh yes. Very good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they're looking at health care and disease from a public health perspective, which is a different perspective than the way most health care people are trained in the United States. So they spend a lot of time on demographics, on the transmission of disease. And, of course, in a Bolivian setting, nobody, nobody in our group had had any exposure to any of the diseases that were discussed.

[Assistant] So it was all new learning about the diseases themselves?

[User] Yeah, malaria. Yellow fever. Plague. Diphtheria. Oh yeah. These things happen. So from the beginning I was on level ground and all of the health care.

[Assistant] Oh yes. Very good.

[User] And so right away people you start thinking about. This is something I want to do. I mean, when they start talking about bubonic plague, those extra tension,

[Assistant] Is there a vaccination against the plague in Bolivia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, malaria. Yellow fever. Plague. Diphtheria. Oh yeah. These things happen. So from the beginning I was on level ground and all of the health care.

[Assistant] Oh yes. Very good.

[User] And so right away people you start thinking about. This is something I want to do. I mean, when they start talking about bubonic plague, those extra tension,

[Assistant] Is there a vaccination against the plague in Bolivia?

[User] Simply put the bodies up in the trees to try to get them off the ground because they believed that if they left, if they buried them, then somehow whatever it was that was causing disease wouldn't be transmitted through the water or the soil to the living. So they would put the cadavers up, not retreat.

[Assistant] But I mean, in terms of your own protection, were you able to Peace Corps training usually involves more vaccinations than you'd ever want to get.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so right away people you start thinking about. This is something I want to do. I mean, when they start talking about bubonic plague, those extra tension,

[Assistant] Is there a vaccination against the plague in Bolivia?

[User] Simply put the bodies up in the trees to try to get them off the ground because they believed that if they left, if they buried them, then somehow whatever it was that was causing disease wouldn't be transmitted through the water or the soil to the living. So they would put the cadavers up, not retreat.

[Assistant] But I mean, in terms of your own protection, were you able to Peace Corps training usually involves more vaccinations than you'd ever want to get.

[User] And one cannot imagine that or count or you don't even want to count.

[Assistant] I counted twenty one sticks with a needle.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Simply put the bodies up in the trees to try to get them off the ground because they believed that if they left, if they buried them, then somehow whatever it was that was causing disease wouldn't be transmitted through the water or the soil to the living. So they would put the cadavers up, not retreat.

[Assistant] But I mean, in terms of your own protection, were you able to Peace Corps training usually involves more vaccinations than you'd ever want to get.

[User] And one cannot imagine that or count or you don't even want to count.

[Assistant] I counted twenty one sticks with a needle.

[User] I can't remember there were so many. And of course, this is the early days of the Peace Corps. And I would go and they would vaccinate you on the chance that on the theory that you and lots of times they weren't sure about the outcomes of the vaccination issue. That's what they would give it to you anyway. Yeah. So I think we my yellow card, my WHL yellow card just went on and on and on, page after page after page.

[Assistant] Yes. And as part of training, of course, that would have been Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And one cannot imagine that or count or you don't even want to count.

[Assistant] I counted twenty one sticks with a needle.

[User] I can't remember there were so many. And of course, this is the early days of the Peace Corps. And I would go and they would vaccinate you on the chance that on the theory that you and lots of times they weren't sure about the outcomes of the vaccination issue. That's what they would give it to you anyway. Yeah. So I think we my yellow card, my WHL yellow card just went on and on and on, page after page after page.

[Assistant] Yes. And as part of training, of course, that would have been Spanish.

[User] Yes. Yes. Outstanding core of teachers of Spanish. Oh, I discovered I had a good ear and maybe that's because I had played the piano and been around people who were musicians and my father saying I am. And but I discovered I had a pretty good ear and all the teachers were excellent.

[Assistant] And you had you you had your two years of Latin to help you, to get you started on the grammar.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can't remember there were so many. And of course, this is the early days of the Peace Corps. And I would go and they would vaccinate you on the chance that on the theory that you and lots of times they weren't sure about the outcomes of the vaccination issue. That's what they would give it to you anyway. Yeah. So I think we my yellow card, my WHL yellow card just went on and on and on, page after page after page.

[Assistant] Yes. And as part of training, of course, that would have been Spanish.

[User] Yes. Yes. Outstanding core of teachers of Spanish. Oh, I discovered I had a good ear and maybe that's because I had played the piano and been around people who were musicians and my father saying I am. And but I discovered I had a pretty good ear and all the teachers were excellent.

[Assistant] And you had you you had your two years of Latin to help you, to get you started on the grammar.

[User] But have happily they were not teaching those grammar or anything like that or teaching as they speak.

[Assistant] So how many hours a day of language do


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. Outstanding core of teachers of Spanish. Oh, I discovered I had a good ear and maybe that's because I had played the piano and been around people who were musicians and my father saying I am. And but I discovered I had a pretty good ear and all the teachers were excellent.

[Assistant] And you had you you had your two years of Latin to help you, to get you started on the grammar.

[User] But have happily they were not teaching those grammar or anything like that or teaching as they speak.

[Assistant] So how many hours a day of language do

[User] I believe we had six hours a day.

[Assistant] Wow. That is intense.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But have happily they were not teaching those grammar or anything like that or teaching as they speak.

[Assistant] So how many hours a day of language do

[User] I believe we had six hours a day.

[Assistant] Wow. That is intense.

[User] It’s very intense.

[Assistant] Very intense and in small groups.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I believe we had six hours a day.

[Assistant] Wow. That is intense.

[User] It’s very intense.

[Assistant] Very intense and in small groups.

[User] Very small groups. But you know, there was a there was there would be a large group for I forget what kind of presentation with maybe a little more theory about language and then small groups, of course, is where it all happened, because from the very first day we walked in, we were asked to speak. Oh. And then we simply continue to speak. And the teachers were wonderful. We were going to an Indian country where the Spanish, for the most part, is uncorrupted. It might be described as the 18th century Spanish, early 19th century Spanish, because these are such isolated areas and beautifully spoken. And all of these teachers were from Indian Country. Ecuador, Peru, Colombia, all of the higher elevations of Venezuela, not very good. So they spoke exactly the same kind of Spanish that they were going to be expected to speak.

[Assistant] Was there also instruction in indigenous languages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It’s very intense.

[Assistant] Very intense and in small groups.

[User] Very small groups. But you know, there was a there was there would be a large group for I forget what kind of presentation with maybe a little more theory about language and then small groups, of course, is where it all happened, because from the very first day we walked in, we were asked to speak. Oh. And then we simply continue to speak. And the teachers were wonderful. We were going to an Indian country where the Spanish, for the most part, is uncorrupted. It might be described as the 18th century Spanish, early 19th century Spanish, because these are such isolated areas and beautifully spoken. And all of these teachers were from Indian Country. Ecuador, Peru, Colombia, all of the higher elevations of Venezuela, not very good. So they spoke exactly the same kind of Spanish that they were going to be expected to speak.

[Assistant] Was there also instruction in indigenous languages?

[User] I'm not in my group at all. Later groups, yes. Because they realize they learn more about millenia. And the need to have at least some kind of understanding and a few, you know, the the typical reliable twenty words and in another language. But we picked it up. Yeah. And in my area it was Quechua.

[Assistant] Quechua. I'm thinking particularly among the women who would it be too. Would have had less experience in school


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm not in my group at all. Later groups, yes. Because they realize they learn more about millenia. And the need to have at least some kind of understanding and a few, you know, the the typical reliable twenty words and in another language. But we picked it up. Yeah. And in my area it was Quechua.

[Assistant] Quechua. I'm thinking particularly among the women who would it be too. Would have had less experience in school

[User] Among the women?

[Assistant] In Bolivia.

[User] In Bolivia.

[Assistant] That the Bolivian women would not have been as educated as the men and therefore would not speak would speak less Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Among the women?

[Assistant] In Bolivia.

[User] In Bolivia.

[Assistant] That the Bolivian women would not have been as educated as the men and therefore would not speak would speak less Spanish.

[User] Of course, you know, in my part of the world where I ended up, you're not dealing with anybody who has any kind of education.

[Assistant] [00:21:47]. Oh, OK. So let's let's let's put this up because I want to get back to that can put education aside.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Bolivia.

[Assistant] That the Bolivian women would not have been as educated as the men and therefore would not speak would speak less Spanish.

[User] Of course, you know, in my part of the world where I ended up, you're not dealing with anybody who has any kind of education.

[Assistant] [00:21:47]. Oh, OK. So let's let's let's put this up because I want to get back to that can put education aside.

[User] All right. OK, now when one went to the city and almost anything could be defined as a city from from where I lived in Bolivia. Yeah. You would run into people with a few years of, let's say, elementary school or something like that or maybe even a few more years. And it was typical that the men would be more likely to speak Spanish.

[Assistant] Yeah. Than the women. Yeah, but


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course, you know, in my part of the world where I ended up, you're not dealing with anybody who has any kind of education.

[Assistant] [00:21:47]. Oh, OK. So let's let's let's put this up because I want to get back to that can put education aside.

[User] All right. OK, now when one went to the city and almost anything could be defined as a city from from where I lived in Bolivia. Yeah. You would run into people with a few years of, let's say, elementary school or something like that or maybe even a few more years. And it was typical that the men would be more likely to speak Spanish.

[Assistant] Yeah. Than the women. Yeah, but

[User] Not where I lived.

[Assistant] Oh. Was there physical training component?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All right. OK, now when one went to the city and almost anything could be defined as a city from from where I lived in Bolivia. Yeah. You would run into people with a few years of, let's say, elementary school or something like that or maybe even a few more years. And it was typical that the men would be more likely to speak Spanish.

[Assistant] Yeah. Than the women. Yeah, but

[User] Not where I lived.

[Assistant] Oh. Was there physical training component?

[User] Yes. Oh, yes, yes, they gave us over to a very pregnant faculty member in the physical Education Department at the University of Washington, and the fact that she was very pregnant didn't stop her at all. She ran us into the ground. I mean, here we were, young people and we had never been exposed to anything like that.

[Assistant] And here you were, an athlete in your own right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not where I lived.

[Assistant] Oh. Was there physical training component?

[User] Yes. Oh, yes, yes, they gave us over to a very pregnant faculty member in the physical Education Department at the University of Washington, and the fact that she was very pregnant didn't stop her at all. She ran us into the ground. I mean, here we were, young people and we had never been exposed to anything like that.

[Assistant] And here you were, an athlete in your own right?

[User] Yes, because I wouldn't have run had swimming and had my life safety certificate as a swimming instructor and had worked lots of times in the summer at college as a lifeguard. And she just can't seem to get around. Oh, my God. But you know what? It's not about the body. It's all about the mind and and how the mind can overcome. And that that's what she was working on, so she had us outside, she had us inside, and of course we had must understand how football was played from the perspective of playing it. So we played we were taught football and we play.

[Assistant] When you say football, you're talking about the


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Oh, yes, yes, they gave us over to a very pregnant faculty member in the physical Education Department at the University of Washington, and the fact that she was very pregnant didn't stop her at all. She ran us into the ground. I mean, here we were, young people and we had never been exposed to anything like that.

[Assistant] And here you were, an athlete in your own right?

[User] Yes, because I wouldn't have run had swimming and had my life safety certificate as a swimming instructor and had worked lots of times in the summer at college as a lifeguard. And she just can't seem to get around. Oh, my God. But you know what? It's not about the body. It's all about the mind and and how the mind can overcome. And that that's what she was working on, so she had us outside, she had us inside, and of course we had must understand how football was played from the perspective of playing it. So we played we were taught football and we play.

[Assistant] When you say football, you're talking about the

[User] Soccer, talking about soccer.

[Assistant] But did anyone from a Peace Corps, Washington, come to your training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, because I wouldn't have run had swimming and had my life safety certificate as a swimming instructor and had worked lots of times in the summer at college as a lifeguard. And she just can't seem to get around. Oh, my God. But you know what? It's not about the body. It's all about the mind and and how the mind can overcome. And that that's what she was working on, so she had us outside, she had us inside, and of course we had must understand how football was played from the perspective of playing it. So we played we were taught football and we play.

[Assistant] When you say football, you're talking about the

[User] Soccer, talking about soccer.

[Assistant] But did anyone from a Peace Corps, Washington, come to your training?

[User] Yes. Again, this was the early days of the Peace Corps and everything was very experimental. And there would be constantly VIPs from Washington coming through, looking at the training techniques used by the University of Washington and trying to determine, well, what's working, what's not working. And, of course, the psychologists and all of the that component, we met with them regularly, one on one and small group sessions. And of course, they were most interested in what the psychologists were reporting because they're still trying to find, well, what is the profile? What is the who is the person we're

[Assistant] Looking at and is there a predictor of who will do well? And yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Soccer, talking about soccer.

[Assistant] But did anyone from a Peace Corps, Washington, come to your training?

[User] Yes. Again, this was the early days of the Peace Corps and everything was very experimental. And there would be constantly VIPs from Washington coming through, looking at the training techniques used by the University of Washington and trying to determine, well, what's working, what's not working. And, of course, the psychologists and all of the that component, we met with them regularly, one on one and small group sessions. And of course, they were most interested in what the psychologists were reporting because they're still trying to find, well, what is the profile? What is the who is the person we're

[Assistant] Looking at and is there a predictor of who will do well? And yes.

[User] And I don't think they knew who would do well and who wouldn't. I mean, it was way too early.

[Assistant] And so the psychologists came. And this kind of connects with the idea of the specter of deselection. How did that work in your group? Were people apprehensive, knowing that not everybody was going? Because they told you then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Again, this was the early days of the Peace Corps and everything was very experimental. And there would be constantly VIPs from Washington coming through, looking at the training techniques used by the University of Washington and trying to determine, well, what's working, what's not working. And, of course, the psychologists and all of the that component, we met with them regularly, one on one and small group sessions. And of course, they were most interested in what the psychologists were reporting because they're still trying to find, well, what is the profile? What is the who is the person we're

[Assistant] Looking at and is there a predictor of who will do well? And yes.

[User] And I don't think they knew who would do well and who wouldn't. I mean, it was way too early.

[Assistant] And so the psychologists came. And this kind of connects with the idea of the specter of deselection. How did that work in your group? Were people apprehensive, knowing that not everybody was going? Because they told you then?

[User] Absolutely right from the beginning, you know, hello, we won't be saying goodbye to all of you when we send you to the next phase of training that some of you won't make it very up front. Very up front. So you were in like a fishbowl being observed in every respect, pretty much 24/7. Right. And I think we all felt that way.

[Assistant] Did you have to do peer evaluations or ranking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I don't think they knew who would do well and who wouldn't. I mean, it was way too early.

[Assistant] And so the psychologists came. And this kind of connects with the idea of the specter of deselection. How did that work in your group? Were people apprehensive, knowing that not everybody was going? Because they told you then?

[User] Absolutely right from the beginning, you know, hello, we won't be saying goodbye to all of you when we send you to the next phase of training that some of you won't make it very up front. Very up front. So you were in like a fishbowl being observed in every respect, pretty much 24/7. Right. And I think we all felt that way.

[Assistant] Did you have to do peer evaluations or ranking?

[User] Boy, if we did, I don't remember that part.

[Assistant] And were you pretty confident that you'd be among those to get to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely right from the beginning, you know, hello, we won't be saying goodbye to all of you when we send you to the next phase of training that some of you won't make it very up front. Very up front. So you were in like a fishbowl being observed in every respect, pretty much 24/7. Right. And I think we all felt that way.

[Assistant] Did you have to do peer evaluations or ranking?

[User] Boy, if we did, I don't remember that part.

[Assistant] And were you pretty confident that you'd be among those to get to go?

[User] I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Assistant] So somewhere towards the end of training, people began to did it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Boy, if we did, I don't remember that part.

[Assistant] And were you pretty confident that you'd be among those to get to go?

[User] I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Assistant] So somewhere towards the end of training, people began to did it.

[User] No, no. I'm just looking over it. It's turning and

[Assistant] It's turn it's turning somewhat towards the end of training people. Most of do they just disappear or did people have a chance to say goodbye? I'm speaking of those who were deselected.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Assistant] So somewhere towards the end of training, people began to did it.

[User] No, no. I'm just looking over it. It's turning and

[Assistant] It's turn it's turning somewhat towards the end of training people. Most of do they just disappear or did people have a chance to say goodbye? I'm speaking of those who were deselected.

[User] Well, you see, the training wasn't completed and it wasn't to be completed at the University of Washington. Oh, we're going to go on to Puerto Rico for training. Oh. After Seattle. So unsure of how long we were in Seattle, I don't know. Let's say sixty days. Sixty five days, something like that. Yeah. And then on to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] And so did everybody go along to Puerto Rico. Didn't come down for deselected in Seattle.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I'm just looking over it. It's turning and

[Assistant] It's turn it's turning somewhat towards the end of training people. Most of do they just disappear or did people have a chance to say goodbye? I'm speaking of those who were deselected.

[User] Well, you see, the training wasn't completed and it wasn't to be completed at the University of Washington. Oh, we're going to go on to Puerto Rico for training. Oh. After Seattle. So unsure of how long we were in Seattle, I don't know. Let's say sixty days. Sixty five days, something like that. Yeah. And then on to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] And so did everybody go along to Puerto Rico. Didn't come down for deselected in Seattle.

[User] Yeah, but my father had an episode of mental illness. So in Seattle I dropped out and returned home. Oh, my brother and I had to come up with some kind of solution for him. Yeah. So I left Bolivia five with an invitation to return if I can work everything out to return to Bolivia six, which began in January. Also, I spent probably forty five days at home. Thirty five or forty five days at home. Yeah brother and I just trying to work out some kind of solution for him.

[Assistant] And meanwhile the rest of your group had gone down to Puerto Rico.